micro 1017 is over party

[Toogeloo]

First!

[Toogeloo]

OMGUS: VOTE: Retti

[Toogeloo]

Hello potion seller. I am going into battle, and I want your strongest potions.

What kind of ingredients do you prefer?

[Toogeloo]

IS ANY ONE ELSE DOESNT KNOW WHAT THERE Potions Do ?

My potion is made with Coconut Milk and Chickpeas.

[Toogeloo]

re massclaim: scum has ~some sorta magical information~ and i highly doubt schadd would make a game breakable by massclaim on day 1 so that's a no from me dawg

Scum have changing roles since they get new potions every night. I feel like scum are the least interested in a mass claim since they may not be able to prove their claim down the line.

[Toogeloo]

uhh

they have what?

Nevermind, I misread the post. The scum team haven't actually distributed their potions yet, but I guess they only get to do it once at end of today only.

[Toogeloo]

My fault for not pocketing you, I guess.

[Toogeloo]

And I could see that being the way scum plays the early game, mostly trying to blend in, talking just to talk but not providing momentum themselves.

How's that different from what I've done that made you interested changing from me to them?

[Toogeloo]

Excuse me if I feel your gut reason seems weak considering you had a vote on me as a sheep for a town read, and I would argue that I too qualify as a similar reason your gut made you swap elsewhere. I'd think you'd be interested in applying more pressure on me.

[Toogeloo]

I'm also not sure i'd call you a scjmread, you more just feel kinda off

I feel like you're asking weird questions, your responses to a couple of things have been a little off, and i didnt like the scumclaiming bits

Skitter, these posts are coming off to me like you are being delicate with your wording.

[Toogeloo]

I mean its weird but i'm not sure its enuf to call u scum over

This one too.

Are you afraid of offending someone and saying you don't think they are town?

[Toogeloo]

From my perspective in your exchange with RaR, you seem like you are feigning a lack of confidence, possibly to refer back to later as a waffle moment and have another avenue to push if your other scum reads flip town.

[Toogeloo]

My "up to page 8" read list..

Rhyme and Reason
pob long
Datisi
T3
tSjIs
bugspray
---
Retti
skitter30

[Toogeloo]

I think my top 3 should not be executed today.

I didn't find their reason for changing their vote off of me to be compelling since I was guilty of similar play. My reads are fluid however, and it should be noted that I have no read basis for spots 4-6 since there isn't enough to work with as of now.

[Toogeloo]

I like their approach to solving so far.

[Toogeloo]

I think your retti read is somewhat OMGUS-y,

To be fair, my vote is still from page 1, and I haven't changed it. I actually am not generally flippant with my votes, so when I am ready to place a serious vote, I'll make it obvious.

I don't think I have enough to work with from all players to make me confident in my list, but I do like it as of right now.

[Toogeloo]

Naked votes, while generally terrible for information, are still generally NAI. In fact I'd argue, scum are more likely to make up a be excuse to apply a vote to avoid naked voting.

[Toogeloo]

Bringing up my current meta, I'm deciding to try and make my townplay mimic my scumplay in that I actually case people.

LOL...

could you talk about your read on me?

Your response immediately after, plus your dialogues afterwards make me feel you are more likely town than scum.

---

I'm moving skitter up my list. Willing to move Retti up a little as well. I'm not happy with the content of bugs or tris and T3 feel naturally scummy, like they've read creature's playbook and committed it to memory. All 3 of them can fall below Retti for now.

UNVOTE:

[Toogeloo]

any reason skitt is here other than "if not dead she is scum"?

no, literally just that

like, skitter ~maybe~ dodges the NK for like 1-2 nights if town, but I have big scepticism that anyone in this PL would decide to bring her to 3p lylo who wouldn't... also probably be dead by that point (like, I would probably not bring her to 3p lylo and I don't think u or tris would do so if u were scum... maybe tris would? idk, but that's a Very Bold decision if skitter is town and I think that generally scum aren't willing to take the bet on the final townie paranoia voting skitt > them especially considering that mislimming skitt is normally a huge pain in the ass unless she's fucked up in her positioning on a scum wagon)

~Rhyme

Why are you posting this?

[Toogeloo]

I wonder if voting for Datisi counts as disagreeing with them...

VOTE: Datisi

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:

[Toogeloo]

Skitter, why the vote on me from the previous page? I assume you don't think I am null-town anymore. Then you voted for someone I had as one of my scum reads.

Give me your thought progression, por favor

[Toogeloo]

@toog, i assume your vote wasn't a serious vote (or rather, a vote born from a scumread) so i would like to know where you stand today as opposed to your last reads yesterday?

It was a test and not a serious vote.

You never actually answered 304 from me and I'd like to get a reply.

1. I was willing to give skitter a bit of a pass for activity's sake. I was not expecting the day to be over by the time I came back, and was just trying to pressure the lower activity slots into doing more.
2. I just found it either weird or insulting that you weren't noticing me despite voting me.

That seems like a good idea, yeah

also, I think I can out this without S_S being upset? but we had a hurt potion for 1 damage that we used on trjis last night (mainly my call) because I figured that there was a good chance that if anyone else had one they might also use it on her, and it would have been useful to know if the hammer was town or scum

so S_S suggested, and I agree, that making trjis disagree with you today might be a good move because we can essentially treat her as conf!town for the rest of the day if she does, and treat it as a scum claim if she refuses to

~Rhyme

If tris is already damaged by 1, wouldn't disagreeing kill them? So uh, you'll get a conftown by having a dead town? I would more expect tris to not want to die at all and make it NAI.

skitter feels scummy today

~Rhyme

skitter is all over the place today, without a doubt. Votes me but doesn't explain the drop from Null-town. Then votes Retti. Then revotes me and says the only person other "non-town" read is T3.

[Toogeloo]

Rhyme and Reason is now hard-lock town for me.
Datisi is an extremely strong town read.
Retti is now a town read too.

pob long drops down to null-scum. My original impression was that pob long was the most basic of vanilla's since they had a potion that did nothing, however they have admitted to having two potions that do nothing or have unknown effects, and this I refuse to believe. I believe pob long is fucking with us.

skitter is back down to full blown, I don't trust this slot. Their posting style yesterday was extremely delicate as to not piss off people, and their reads are everywhere and yet nowhere.

I think T3 is naturally scummy. I think it's hard for them to be on town in anyway, and their playstyle is easy for people to latch on to and call scummy. I do NOT have a town read on them, but I would not be surprised if they are town.

When I came back to thread I was locked out before I could do a full catch-up. My impressions of tris were they were doing a bit of scum theater with skitter, and their request to not be investigated was obviously a red flag, but I think I over thought it based on today's posts. I'm leaning lightly town with a weak foundation there for now.

[Toogeloo]

In short, my current two scum reads are skitter and pob long.

VOTE: skitter

[Toogeloo]

Because you are getting pressure from other players as well and trying to figure what you can say that will appease the most people.

[Toogeloo]

this feels like yelling into the void i am starting to not like my charisma potion anymore

I think your charisma potion is just fine. This is me disagreeing with you, and you should be loving it.

I believe it works in tandem with Rhyme and Reason. I'm hard locking R&R because I have the exact same potion, though I haven't used mine yet to deal 1 damage to a player. I think in tandem with your potion, we can execute players we don't want around.

[Toogeloo]

You moved her up to being a townread for being active?

Ah, I see now why you're confused.

[Toogeloo]

Go back to my day 1 read lists Retti. Point out where I called anyone town or scum.

[Toogeloo]

Are you asking me to change your point of view?

[Toogeloo]

Ah, well that's your perogative.

[Toogeloo]

I thought my positions were pretty succinct to be quite honest.

[Toogeloo]

I've been known to do that too.

[Toogeloo]

I'm not the one being pedantic. My list on Page 8 of the game can't possibly be so cut and dry as these have to be scum, these have to be town. You are the one who is labeling my choices and then questioning me on the details of them.

Let's not forget Day 1 was cut way shorter than it should have. I wasn't in a position to apply labels to players yet. So if you can't accept that I had a very basic list which I stated was fluid and constantly changing, and that everyone on that list must have a label, that's on you.

[Toogeloo]

I have no potions.

Did you start the game with a potion?

[Toogeloo]

Toog why is rr locktown for having the same potion as u

I already liked R&R before their pot claim, so naturally I would progress to something stronger.

[Toogeloo]

Ask T3 and pob long to disagree with some Datisi has said. I will poke one of them tonight. If they disagree, execute them.

[Toogeloo]

@toog - is there a reason you keep ignoring me at this point?

I'm an equal opportunity ignoramus. It wouldn't just be you. If I haven't answered you on something, it's either...

A) I missed it.
2) I don't have an answer for you.
D) I don't want to answer it.

[Toogeloo]

Get pob long or T3 at -1 HP, execute the other. I'll poke the one at -1 HP, if someone else has a poke potion, they can poke me tonight, or you can execute me tomorrow and use tonight and tomorrow night worrying about MeLo after my mis-elim if it gets that far.

[Toogeloo]

Execute pob long today.

T3 has already disagreed with Datisi, so I'll poke them tonight.

If anyone has a poke potion, use it on me tonight. Otherwise, eliminate me tomorrow.

If town hasn't eliminated at least 1 or both scum by that point, they're fucked anyways by deep wolf.

VOTE: pob long

[Toogeloo]

Uh huh.

[Toogeloo]

You know, Datisi could just tell anyone to disagree with them on purpose, and anyone doesn't has to take a point of damage anyways.

[Toogeloo]

Who were my two big scum reads again?

[Toogeloo]

Skitter, how do you feel about disagreeing with Datisi?

[Toogeloo]

considering you're already taking damage from me anyway, i at least feel comfortable discussing this - don't think this is true? like, i can't force anyone into anything.

All you have to say is...

"[Player], I think you should take 1 HP damage today, do you agree?"

By refusing, they take 1 HP of damage anyways since the disagree with you. If they agree, then they should find a way to take that damage, and you hold them to it.

Like the only thing they can do is ignore you or try to convince you not to and avoid it, in which case if it's that big of a deal to you, you could press the matter. You could theoretically apply -1HP damage to anyone you want depending on how aggressive you wish to be, and anyone who refuses would be

[Toogeloo]

You all are big kids, you can make your own decisions. I was just offering suggestions. Not like a lot of other suggestions are being thrown out.

Hell, most people seem to be pretty passive today.

[Toogeloo]

I don't believe they have two potions that do nothing and have no descriptive feature other than, "gulp."

---

players are explicitly allowed to claim their ingredients

I was wondering what people think of this. With the wording, it's almost as if the mod was hoping we'd share our potion ingredients with each other.

[Toogeloo]

So you drank something labeled "poison?"

[Toogeloo]

If we flip T3, then given current info, the only other person I could theoretically poke is tris, so keep that in mind.

[Toogeloo]

Although, I might poke myself too, if the mod allows it. That way I won't be around to be mis-elim'd.

[Toogeloo]

I'm impressed we haven't talked about the lack of no night kill all day lol.

[Toogeloo]

there is not a factional nightkill.

Hmm...

[Toogeloo]

This game seems designed for town to intentionally shoot itself in the foot by the looks of it. If there is no factional night kill. Everyone holstering actually seems a plausible play, but you'd have to assume there is no deep wolf directing town.

And honestly, it makes roles like the charisma potion seem to benefit scum more than town.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toogeloo

Eliminate me today. Do it quick before any other damage is taken from the charisma potion. Everyone else who has a damage potion will be scum claiming if they use it.

[Toogeloo]

And honestly, it makes roles like the charisma potion seem to benefit scum more than town.

yes but i think (?) dats is town on play + it's super easy for him to 'accidentally' write posts in a way for people to disagree with + it looks like the pressure of writing his posts in a ~neutral~ way is getting to him, when if he were scum that wouldnt' be happening

This is not me saying Days is scum, but keep in mind that scum allotted their potions to each other after Day 1, so giving a potion like that to a widely town read player would be a smart scum move.

[Toogeloo]

Days = Datisi (auto correct fml)

[Toogeloo]

i also just feel like the fact that you're so intune with the scum mechanics is +scum :/

idk maybe i'm tunneled but i'm having a hard time here seeing toog as town

I have self voted, to sum up my position, the best way to combat a scum team with no factional kill is for any town players with a damaging potion to holster it and never use it. Any deaths at night will be due to scum.

[Toogeloo]

Then, you eliminate the scummiest players during the day with (hopefully) no fear of night kills.

[Toogeloo]

No action last night.

[Toogeloo]

I only have 1 potion. It deals 1 damage to a player when all players start with 2 HP. It made more sense to hold my potion until I had more info to work with.

I asked the mod, and schadd said that once a potion is used, it's gone. So basically, the entire game my only contribution at night is to deal 1 damage only to anyone.

[Toogeloo]

I'm still a highly possible miselim, so I'm better to be eliminated early as to help force reevaluations.

[Toogeloo]

I'm actually pretty much gungho, if I'm not today's elimination, I will attempt to poke myself to (again) remove myself from the miselim pool. The sooner the most suspected people are out, the healthier the game gets to encourage deeper thought.

The most widely assumed theory for the majority of the day today was that both scum are in pob long, T3, and myself. If I'm reading the room correctly, people have begun to assume pob long is now town.

Since I know I am town, my best course of action is to remove myself from the game and force the remaining town players to realize there is a deep wolf (or two) in the game, and now it is important for all town to be reevaluating their reads.

[Toogeloo]

I would think it will take a couple days for people to be ready to move past their current assumptions. If Datisi is scum, no one will be jumping to that theory any time soon.

[Toogeloo]

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit excited to see what happens when I'm gone.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Datisi

Diving into the deep end here.

First and foremost, without a factional night kill, I suspect that the charisma potion is scum aligned.

Secondly, I went through their ISO, and it just seems to me they were moving along with the flavor of the moment, and felt like not trying to ruffle feathers. Nothing was really town-telling to me, and I could easily see the posts coming as either alignment. There were even a few examples of Titus' "Rule of Three," in there.

I think the above post feels a bit fake too.

---

The game has gotten dull, I'm swinging for the fences on this one.

Retti and R&R are town. Tris probably town.

[Toogeloo]

It's 4th of July weekend for the American folks. I'm 100% down to execute pob long this day, but we kind of need support, and I couldn't even push my own lim through lol.

[Toogeloo]

(2) i hope you're supposed to be talking about day 1 here, because if you're trying to make a scumcase that i'm "not trying to ruffle feathers" on day 2 i'm gonna laugh. assuming you are talking about day 1, i wanna hear you elaborate on this, because i feel like i spent the whole day one trying to sort people as best as i could.

For Day 1, it was just the vibe I was getting, but let's be honest here. Day 2 you activated your potion but have had next to no ambition to actually enforce it, which further proves you aren't trying to ruffle feathers. You aren't even trying to get a scum read to disagree with you.

[Toogeloo]

did you remember either of these thigns offhand? i certainly didn't, and i've read the op a few times now, and i bet that most townies didn't either (in fact from reactions to toog saying this, i know a lot of people didn't). scum, however, would be incredibly aware of both of these facts as this is the reality of the game for them thus far: they had to make a conscioius choice as to how they'd have distributed the potions, and they know perfectly well they didn't kill anyone last night
townies honestly don't have any reason to remember this, because why would they? so far the game hasn't really gone *taht much differently* than a normal game, despite things being sort of different on the scum end. literally nobody even remembered about the lack of a factional nk until toog brought it up

You do realize I originally fucked up the scum potion distribution thing, right? My original interpretation was that scum got new potions daily if you go back and reread my iso. Retro's reaction made me go back and reread it because I was going to post it for them.

I also fucked up the no night kill thing and went to check it again as well.

But sure, omit those in your shade.

[Toogeloo]

What am I supposed to say about tris confirm town? Is there a world where tris and you are scum together? Maybe, but probably not. So yeah. Tris is probably town.

Was that elaborated enough for you?

[Toogeloo]

This game, such wow.

[Toogeloo]

Nah, the game is pretty full. Your disconnection is justified.

[Toogeloo]

dull*

[Toogeloo]

You guys so realize there are only two scum in this game, right?

[Toogeloo]

So here's the state of the game. The apathy is incredibly high, and town have no interest in actually trying to win and would rather just let other town figure out the solve. Unfortunately all town are of this mind set. The two scum are willing to just post enough to avoid prods and with the same levels of apathy the town players are posting with.

This game is not fun. This was my first micro game, and if this is the norm, probably my last as well.

Eliminate me today.
Stagnate tomorrow and eliminate T3 or R&R since I can see the trend. If scum have a damaging potion, they'll probably kill tris. Scum are probably even bored of this game.

Honestly I'm ready to wash my hands of this game since no one wants to do anything.

[Toogeloo]

If you look at my wiki, I pretty much only play large and mini themes lol.

[Toogeloo]

I don't ever replace out of games. But this game is testing my resolve.

So yeah, please just eliminate me, and to any other town players...
Wake The Fuck Up.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toogeloo

[Toogeloo]

I didn't join you on pob long Retti because I already tried that pages ago, and as you pointed out, they are shielded by too many people. There is almost no shot at flipping pob today. In fact, the day has been decided days ago that I'll be flipped, even though no one wants to admit it or vote me.

Everyone just doesn't want to stir up anything today, and I'm suck of it. Vote me out so I don't have to care anymore.

[Toogeloo]

I think I have been hammered, but even the mod got bored lol

[Toogeloo]

I'm not sure how I feel about a game where town loses after Night 2. But...

This game seems designed for town to intentionally shoot itself in the foot by the looks of it.

...and we deserved the loss.

[Toogeloo]

I think the biggest issue with balance was that there was almost no indication this was going to be a bloodbath, which reduced town's urgency to solve.

[Toogeloo]

Not knowing our current HP values going into Day 2, didn't help. That's information that might have changed the trajectory of Day 2, but I can understand why since a damaged player if no one were to claim responsibility might be more inclined to be town read for it, and people who claim dealing damage might be more scum read, which would be unfair to scum. Then again, scum already have more information than town, so them being able to know where health tracks are (and the Charisma Potion forces other damages out into the open), was a bit too much.

I honestly think town loses this game more than it wins.

[Toogeloo]

I think the only reason I reversed my scum read on Retti is because everyone else was just being so cagey on Day 2. I was probably too tunneled on skitter, and almost every iteration of my reads had them in the solve.

Day 1, Retti and skitter.
Day 2 morning, pob long and skitter.
Day 2 evening, some combination of pob long, Datisi, and skitter.

The only read I really trusted was SS/Mena, but I couldn't get them to vibe with me.