MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

[Titus]

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

He's my brother. I claim post 314.

[Titus]

On a more serious note. I haven't taken math classes since high school and I'm in my 30s now.

[Titus]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[Titus]

Interesting Wheme, why?

[Titus]

VOTE: titus
Serious vote. This seems like an overreaction to a naked vote.

It's an overreaction to ask why?

[Titus]

MURDERCAT town, Xlos scum.

VOTE: Xlos

Will sheep for now.

[Titus]

By the way, anyone who claims a type of Modified Rolecop is confirmed town. This information I have from somewhere that I will not elaborate on furter.

VOTE: titus
Serious vote. This seems like an overreaction to a naked vote.

VOTE: T3

I like Galron as town.

Asking why someone voted when they OMGUSed is perfectly reasonable.

[Titus]

@T3, I am a modified rolecop too. That means if the mod modifies my role pm, I am a rolecop.

[Titus]

Interesting Wheme, why?

[Titus]

Also: Umlaut, Murdercat & nom have one scumster between them. I don't think it's nom but I can't guarantee it either.

Why?

[Titus]

I'm saying that that rule isn't likely to be meaningful compared to picking any 3 players at random

(I feel the same way about your rule, sorry Titus)

Except my rule of 3 isn't random.

[Titus]

Murder panicking at A50 analysis.

[Titus]

MC was hammered. I just pmed the mod. They forgot my vote.

[Titus]

Nevermind lol.

[Titus]

I'd like to take credit for that.

[Titus]

MC was hammered. I just pmed the mod. They forgot my vote.

Did you have a post deleted Titus? Or why did you think you were voting me?

Not sure. I think I am in too many games.

[Titus]

Didn't the mod warn us not to claim flavor? Wouldn't that naturally include what branch of math we were (if we even knew)?

P.S. I only joined because my brother would kill me if I didn't.

[Titus]

@Xlos, Are you literally asking me to agree with your scumlean on me based solely on the fact I voted you? Get out with that noise.

My comment on 218 is in 219.

[Titus]

I don't really expect you to agree, I'm just posting my thoughts. I don't want to just say "null", better to add an extra comment. But you are null, anyways.

That extra content just happens to be shading me and hoping I understand.

[Titus]

It's still early but Jake and MURDERCAT give off good vibrations.

I agree on Jake. I think MURDERCAT is a bad elimination now but not high town.

[Titus]

I don't like this ISO. It feels void of anything meaty, and "assuming" MC is ton the vote on him was opportunistic.

I can vote Flea.

[Titus]

VOTE: Flea

I want that catchup post. Xlos is at least trying.

I believe that is E-2.

[Titus]

No. It's

E-1

[Titus]

Official Vote Count #1.10

Xlos (4): DrippingGoofball, Titus, Galron, nomnomnom
T3 (2): Xlos, theslimer3
Flea The Magician (2): WhemeStar, Toogeloo
Almost50 (1): MURDERCAT
MURDERCAT (1): Flea The Magician
Jake The Wolfie (1): Jake The Wolfie

Not Voting (2): Almost50, T3

VOTE: Flea

I'm not convinced about Flea/Xlos but I want to see where the wagons go

VOTE: Flea

I want that catchup post. Xlos is at least trying.

I believe that is E-2.

I counted a quoted vote. E-2 was the answer and with DGB's vote that's correct.

[Titus]

I counted from Xlos, my bad.

[Titus]

I honestly don't want to waste the effort if my lim is happening either way.

The lack of effort is why I am voting you. Providing decent content likely gets my vote off. Plus, you're not in danger of being the lim like I thought you were.

[Titus]

Catto probtown, munchies probably town,

Who are these people?

[Titus]

Happy birthday Ircher!

VOTE: nom

[Titus]

If a50 promised to hammer then I guess I'll have to claim if I'm ever put at E-1, which is a shame but eh
depressing game where I'm blocked by scum

If you're blocked, it's by town LOL.

With an ungated doctor flip, I am partial to believing a roleblocker exists if any investigation exists and I'm hard pressed to find a game that doesn't.

[Titus]

miller

Umm no claim D1. I don't think so.

[Titus]

I've literally softed my role from page 2

Where?

[Titus]

by the way if we could end days with a prime number of pages that would be very great thank you

by the way if we could end days with a prime number of pages that would be very great thank you

by the way if we could end days with a prime number of pages that would be very great thank you

That's not a soft of miller or friendly neighbor.

[Titus]

Yet, it does suggest not VT.

[Titus]

Meh probably town but useless role.

Yuck.

[Titus]

Claiming miller day 2, LOL, AND "blocked friendly neighbor" AND it's gonna get harder to have prime number pages SO SAD

=====[ ]

That's where I am at. I have minor reservations but largely I think he's scum.

[Titus]

the miller part of my role says that the pnt is born out of many conjectures and hence I am a miller by flavor
pedit: if that was hammer that was quite stupid and I'm quite mad

Your rolecard would say explicitly that you're a miller.

[Titus]

nomnomnom literally can't die and he then townslipped. Thank you, experimental activity rules.

How did he townslip?

[Titus]

Oh, yeah.
Wheme has some really easy meta that I'm going to do soon. Toog always radiates scumminess as either alignment so I'm not sure. Titus and A50 I have no idea how to read.

You've played with me a fair amount yet you can't read me? Most people at least have a theory on me, even if their theories contradict each other. See Yggdrasil.

[Titus]

the miller part of my role says that the pnt is born out of many conjectures and hence I am a miller by flavor
pedit: if that was hammer that was quite stupid and I'm quite mad

Your rolecard would say explicitly that you're a miller.

it does, I was just saying the flavor explanation that goes with it

I struggle to believe a miller friendly neighbor claim. What's the point of a miller that can clear itself?

[Titus]

You can ask ircher about that after the game
I would have claimed miller if i was plain miller, the only reason I didn't is because I thought it would be easy to clear myself and the only thing I needed for that is to fulfill the condition

Why not just full claim D1? Everyone would be on board with ending the days on a prime number of pages. Now that you claim miller in the face of a softed guilty is just bad.

You also had no way of knowing we'd end on 19 pages D1.

[Titus]

Titus sheep's you and then has been putting in a lot of effort to discredit nom³. If you have a guilty, why put in effort to discredit?

You're either misreading my posts or posting in bad faith. I gave nomnomnom every chance to defend himself because a guilty happened. To argue that I am somehow discrediting nomnomnom when I ask him why is just wrong.

If I was discrediting, I would just say no miller = scum.

Right now, I lean nomnomnom scum but Toog town.

[Titus]

For those who believe nom's claim, explain why the mod would put in a miller when our cop only gets one shot?

(This is a discredit btw)

[Titus]

There might be other cops.

Yeah how about no.

A 1 shot cop with a miller and which can and would draw out CCs from other cops? That's not good design at all.

[Titus]

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

@Mathblade, You must answer this. No reading the thread before you do.

Welcome.

[Titus]

I am me.

I love math and hate math.

My favorite math is pure math but applied has its uses.

I bet scum would use stats and not calculus.

Reading after civ game tonight.

I reliniquish my claim to post 314 but only to Math and only if he wants it.

[Titus]

Derp...

[Titus]

Well obviously that claim wasn't role related. My brother's nickname is Pi.

[Titus]

Well there's 3141.

[Titus]

@Math, I feel that you're assuming that people play the same as you and that reads don't change. There's a multitude of theories re:who to check.

I'm going to have to reflect here.

[Titus]

DGB commonly claims guilties on buddies

Source?

Also why is Muffin relevant?

[Titus]

If DGB commonly claims guilties on buddies, then why don't we take the guilty on nomnomnom and then sort DGB later?

I'm not a fan of meta but you've laid out the possibility so it will be looked at in the off chance you are killed.

VOTE: nomnomnom

[Titus]

Combined with follow the cop on a doc flip is sus as fuck.

Why would this happen though? DGB is explicitly a 1 shot cop. It can't happen, even if scum lack a roleblocker.

[Titus]

let nomnomnom attempt to send out a message, and if someone can confirm them

So they can claim being roleblocked again, or have their buddy pretend they got confirmation?

So, if they're town, this is just a strictly good play, since we get a chance to turn a high-sus player into a confirmed town and get free confirmation that you're scummy.
No matter what their alignment is, situation 1 isn't going to happen, since the claim was that we have a town roleblocker, who isn't going to block again.
If their buddy pretends that they get confirmation, we've successfully tied two members of the scumteam together. If we flip you and you flip town, we can then get 2 free mafia annihilations the successive days for the cost of 1 town annihilation.

The problem with this route is it requires assuming scum don't have a roleblocker. It gives scum nomnomnom one more night to use whatever ability he does have. It forces the entire town to play around that possibility when a miller in a game with a one shot cop is scummy.

Second, there's no reason why he couldn't claim miller when he hammered if he knew that shit was scummy. A miller claim deters roleblocks and nightkills as it's rarely combined with something else.

[Titus]

Combined with follow the cop on a doc flip is sus as fuck.

Why would this happen though? DGB is explicitly a 1 shot cop. It can't happen, even if scum lack a roleblocker.

Replace DGB with another certain player who is being kinda weird and maybe should reread my paragraph. You’re also assuming DGB is one shot. A good strategy for a cop is to lie about being one shot when they aren’t.

My main focus was on you and whatever the modified rolecop thing is you claimed. Murdercat smart play would be to sit on you each night since you claimed cop. Which makes it sus Murdercat is dead.

The modified rolecop thing was a joke and pretty explicitly so. If the mod changes my role pm, I could be anything.

T3 also lies all the time

[Titus]

@T3, I am a modified rolecop too. That means

if the mod modifies my role pm, I am a rolecop.

This is definitely not a cop claim. Lmao.

[Titus]

@T3, I am a modified rolecop too. That means

if the mod modifies my role pm, I am a rolecop.

This is definitely not a cop claim. Lmao.

I thought it was serious because theme game. Yay Aspieness.

Still doesn’t explain T3’s informed. Regular cop doesn’t match modified role cop.

T3 lies in almost all his town games. There likely is no modified rolecop and even if he's not lying, that would be a scum role and not a town role.

[Titus]

By the way, anyone who claims a type of Modified Rolecop is confirmed town. This information I have from somewhere that I will not elaborate on furter.

What incentive does a town T3 have to lie about this?
(Yes I see scum incentive while odd I see it)

Can you show me where a town T3 lied in a similar way?
I think it’s too specific to be a lie.

I can't answer specifics bc ongoing games rule.

[Titus]

Also please don't hammer.

[Titus]

I want more discussion. Plus I'm VLA night phase.

[Titus]

VLA over night phase gives me no time to analyze the flip or to plan my night action (if I have one). Scum can proxy their night actions.

[Titus]

Math, I want to actually see how your reads reset supposing no one counters DGB.

I want to be able to parse the relationships in detail because there are relationships here.

[Titus]

This discussion is why I didn't want to end the day.

I don't think Math is scum but I think this discussion is worthwhile. I think this alternative thinking is town Math. The only thing that worries me is the insistence on both being scum. He could be right, but it also keeps DGB in the elimination pool if nomnomnom flips scum.

DGB nom Math (A possible scumteam but unlikely as Math wouldn't highlight this)
DGB nom Xias/galron
DGB toog

nom toog
nom xios galron

I want to narrow down which is more likely.

[Titus]

Yes. That’s the world I am in yes. If you look at the game linked Yellowstone DGB did the exact same thing with AGamblingPig.
If you look at the second link, with DGB and Muffin DGB said they investigated Muffin and then muffin coasted to end game.

That’s always been my point and I think DGB is a liar. Nom’s is implausible and so is DGB if we take T3 at face value and I think we should.

Do you think that I'm wrong about T3?

If I'm right about T3, do you agree that DGB's claim looks more plausible?

What incentive is there to fake a guilty at the start of day 2 as scum?

If DGB and nomnomnom are scum together, then the last partner would want to FoS Mathblade here.

I find that Xios position that one must be town here works perfectly with Math's theory... as in Xios would be scum in that world.

I also find it convenient to say one must be town because it gives Xios a perfect position if both are town.

TLDR, if DGB and Nom share an alignment, Xios is more likely scum.

[Titus]

The full doctor is the one that stands out and we know that's town

Question: Who claimed neighbor?

[Titus]

@DGB, I think Math is the townbeard here but I'm open to being wrong. The steadfast refusal to consider other opinions is NAI.

[Titus]

Can people explain why they townread xios

I don't.

[Titus]

There are too many non-voters.

Why? I don't feel inclined to vote anyone until Tuesday or unless I get more time to get thoughts going.

@A50/MathBlade, I see you both there.

@A50, What are your thoughts of Xlos trying to get everyone to claim what branch of math we were?

[Titus]

I'm starting to paranoia on DGB actually being scum with a rolecop here, would make sense as to how it pushed me and literally doesn't want to reconsider a cop guilty when I claimed miller before it even said what type of guilty it had
it's possible, am I going full paranoid here?? ergh

Why wouldn't DGB just claim tracker or watcher then?

[Titus]

??
I claimed my role seeing that you tried strongarming people into a fast lim on me, I had no choice but to claim
If you're trying to say that I only claimed miller because I thought you had a guilty, then explain to me how I magically conjured up the perfect claim to counter your specific type of guilty as scum. I would have to have pretty telepathic abilities to do that, don't you think?
I'm just miller, and people don't believe me because I didn't play in a way they deemed optimal. I played according to what I thought was best for my role. That is all.

Cop is the most common type of guilty. Your team could have investigated DGB as well.

[Titus]

@A50

Intermediate Value Theorem

[Titus]

@A50

Intermediate Value Theorem

So we’re doing this? *sigh*

Mean Value Theorem

Crumbed several times.

I still note my objection this is stupid.

Where?

Also why?

[Titus]

Where to what? My objection to this was noted several times and even to the point A50 voted me.
I literally quoted my most obvious crumb if I have to underline words I can.

And why? Flavor seems indicative of *things*

Where did you crumb?

If you think announcing flavor is so bad, why crumb it?
Second, you have non-mathletes in the game (at least myself) who would miss your crumbs. Since you defer to me a lot, how could you make any effort to crumb me a math concept I have likely never heard of.

Third, why did you defer to me on claiming flavor?

Fourth, I missed your stance on Xlos requesting to announce if we were algebra, geometry or calculus. What is your stance? What is your opinion of Xlos and A50?

[Titus]

@Xlos, why doesn't the argument you make against A50 apply to you seeking if people were algebra geometry or calculus?

[Titus]

Okay I'll play.
Let's imagine the world where I am scum here.
I got roleblocked last night by Toog, that is confirmed by them. A kill happened last night, and in a world I am scum it can't possibly come from me. So that means in that hypothetical world I am scum, you are banking your theory that the third partner had to be some sort of investigative that targeted DBG. That is very unlikely, and that wasn't was happened.
Ockam's razor says I am simply town here. Think about it two seconds.

I'm not depending on you and Toog being partners, although it would make things easier. You'd just have to know someone blocked you as scum. There are several avenues towards this without having Toog be scum. Some of them include you being a straight up goon.

I don't get the same Razor calculations that you do at all.

[Titus]

Nom, talk to me about your nonDGB reads.

DGB, talk to me about your nomnomnom reads.

This 1 v 1 makes it harder to read the rest of the game.

[Titus]

@Titus: you have history with mathblade I wanna know your thoughts about him so far, I've had some pings about the fact he didn't want to hammer me and from my POV that just could be scum that is scared of making me flip

I'm finding the way Math's treating me as odd but nothing's out of his townrange. Math's on my watch list. Him being so deferential is odd but his thought processes are closer to town Math.

[Titus]

DGB's claim is probably real by the virtue of my flavor being second deriv and DGB being first deriv.

Scums are given fakeclaims so it's still possible that while the flavor is possible the claim itself is bogus.

You're not convincing me that DGB's claim is bogus here unless it's S v S.

DGB doesn't come accusing you immediately unless it knows you flip red (or miller). Trading 1 for 1 with someone who is miselimination bait makes no sense.

[Titus]

DGB softed the guilty prior to your miller claim.

[Titus]

I think DBG is the Greatest of all Time

Dyslexia wins the thread.

[Titus]

DGB softed the guilty prior to your miller claim.

No you fail to see what I'm trying to say.
I am saying that DGB could have just done all of this because it learned my role overnight and decided to claim a guilty on me knowing I'd claim miller. That's my point.

But if it had your role pm, then it pushing you so hard only confirms the existence of a rolecop.

Second, that requires scum checking the lynchbait with their rolecop.

[Titus]

I think claiming flavor is really dumb

I don't know that it's a great idea either. It seems the math geeks could figure out the roles from the flavor, which leaves me out. I pretty much exhausted my math knowledge with Pythagorean Thoerem.

The mod specifically said calculus or some form of Math wasn't required to play. Otherwise, I would have pleaded for Math to be a hydra with me this game. Then we definitely would have gotten post 314. #notsalty

[Titus]

but DGB’s claim is an action

People were asked to flavor claim, I'm the only one who has actually claimed a role in addition to the flavor.

That's why my claim is singularly an action - so far.

QED

No no no what I mean is

“First Derivative Test” is an action.

It’s a thing someone does. It doesn’t match everyone else’s flavor.

Alright Math... you want troll

The flavor miller that doesn't claim D1 checks the actual miller who doesn't claim day 1 and they both get upset with each other for being too bad to be town while the rest of us just blow fireworks rather than blow our actual lids.

[Titus]

Mod: What page did day 1 end on? Page 19 or page 17?

[Titus]

UNVOTE: nomnomnom

VOTE: Xlos

[Titus]

I mean big reason why i hammered really is because I can see how this day would have gone with this shit you're doing, and I have a role that profits from doing this, so shrug

This is on page 18 rolling into 19. I don't doubt for a minute now that nomnomnom has a role that benefits from being on a prime number. I think he had a problem with understanding his role and got lucky the game rolled onto page 19. nom likely thought the day ended with hammer rather than including twilight. Otherwise that post is really odd to start the defense before getting guiltied.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: nomnomnom

VOTE: Xlos

Why Titus?

We have a DGB + Nom situation and A50 trying to pretty much in my POV force a mass claim.
Please explain a Xlos vote?

I think all three of those are town.

I feel a large inconsistency between Xlos wanting our flavor types but being unwilling to claim his flavor.

You have the inverse inconsistency. You argue against claiming flavor but you allegedly crumbed it and outed when asked. Despite your inconsistency, I have you as town however.

[Titus]

I feel A50 is town because of the consistency and passion for which he pursues his claim. Flavor dictating roles makes no sense and would dictate that players understand calculus to play. So it's a largely harmless exercise most likely and there's a payoff.

Compare to Xlos. He wanted to know what type of Math we were. What has he done with the info provided? Nothing. When someone asks him to claim his flavor, with a specified town benefit, he's quiet. That's a clear inconsistency there and I want to push on it.

[Titus]

I think Flea's refusal to post means that even if they are town, they're just a real number.

This is also odd from Xlos given his request to claim flavor. He implies VTs are real numbers exclusively which would make his prior requests PR hunts.

[Titus]

Right, it's not in the role PM, but my role is a technique in analysis, so I assume that all roles are techniques in analysis, algebra or geometry.

He goes from this to all VTs are real numbers. It's odd.

[Titus]

What's Xlos's degree in?

[Titus]

Nevermind on that last question.

[Titus]

Right now I think A50 DGB Nom T3 Math and myself are town.
Honorable mention to Galron.
Dishonorable mention to Jake
Scum in Xlos Whemestar and Toog

[Titus]

Like where is your usual "casing" or "going back" and examining prior play?
I know you normally don't do VCA but it's odd that you're not at least trying to refer back to D1.

I literally just referred back to D1 by asking where it ended.

Can you do your own reasonless readslist?

[Titus]

This is on page 18 rolling into 19. I don't doubt for a minute now that nomnomnom has a role that benefits from being on a prime number. I think he had a problem with understanding his role and got lucky the game rolled onto page 19. nom likely thought the day ended with hammer rather than including twilight. Otherwise that post is really odd to start the defense before getting guiltied.

The issue then becomes that nom³ is now required to have the mod end the day on a favorable page. What if the mod is busy and can't end the day on a prime number page?

It makes proving him harder yes, but this game was likely designed around three one shot roles gaining information.

The fact nomnomnom slipped makes him a great choice for a roleblock, particularly if scum can control if he acts again.

[Titus]

@nomnomnom and Toog, Thoughts on my readslist?

[Titus]

I struggle with Toog. I SR his posting but I can't see why he comes forward in a town!nom world unless he assumes you're getting eliminated anyway and goes for the credit.

[Titus]

At what point did you start town-reading nom³, Titus?

I'm not sure exactly when I did. At first, I was looking for this that would refute his claim, but I didn't find any.

I also struggled with how opportunistic the day feels.

Nomnomnom posting this way is generally consistent.

[Titus]

@Toog, why did you roleblock nomnomnom instead of letting him resolve?

[Titus]

Why were you looking for things that would refute his claim?

Miller D2 seems plenty to me.

Why did you ask me to hold off until Tuesday while still voting Nom?

If nomnomnom's claim was proven bullshit, we could get a turbolim there and I'd feel confident it was the right play.

I wanted time to get caught up psychologically. I had read but I wanted to look deeper.

[Titus]

I wanted to take the holiday to look deeper at things psychologically. It's literally the same thing.

[Titus]

Do you want a recap of the thread since Saturday?

I feel like I've learned quite a lot.

[Titus]

Do you want a recap of the thread since Saturday?

I feel like I've learned quite a lot.

I’d love it from your POV yes.

I’ve only been asking a while now.

And damn Jake that’s like the towniest thing you’ve said I like it. Keep it up please

DGB likely checked nom and got a result.
I like nomnomnom defense.
I find Toog's play around nomnomnom weird. Why block someone who is obviously limited action (if he believed nomnomnom at the time)? Why shade me for discrediting nomnomnom for asking basic questions?
Xlos's flavor positions don't make any sense.
T3 is likely town for events prior to the thread.
Whemestar is just out of it. I don't like it but I am inclined to give a pass for today bc T3.
Jake's kinda there.
Math is giving a pass to Jake because he can agree with their S v S theory (normal) but giving Xlos a pass when he's voting A50 doesn't make sense.
I feel Galron is town but I need to sort him more.

[Titus]

Argh nom is scum

An ungated friendly neighbor who is also a miller and gains STILL SECRET additional powers on prime day ends that are POORLY defined

And was oh so conveniently roleblocked

And OH claimed miller after I softed a guilty

IS LYING SCUM

It's all laid bare right in front of us

The way I understand it is that nomnomnom can only act on prime ends, not that he gets additional power from prime ends.

[Titus]

@Toog, why did you roleblock nomnomnom instead of letting him resolve?

I found it suspicious that anyone who is town would openly claim they could use a role after meeting conditions on Day 1. Town would likely fear a blocking mechanic from scum more than scum would fear one from town.

If nom is scum and scum has a roleblocker... maybe not!!!

Or maybe nom is town and scum jumped at the chance to roleblock someone who said they weren't VT.

[Titus]

The way I understand it is that nomnomnom can only act on prime ends, not that he gets additional power from prime ends.

correct

Oh well that's new

The claim changed again thanks to Titus feeding answers.

Where did he say it the other way?

[Titus]

Scum team is Titus, Toogeloo and Nom, I rest my case.

Well if you ever decide to stop voting Nom, I'll help you by "bussing" Toog.

I'm at Xlos, Toog, plus one.

[Titus]

Well shit. That's a problem.

[Titus]

I'm a bit distrustful of Titus' posts today. I'm disinterested in nom³ and actually feel as though they conjured up a perfect storm of unluckiness of their own posts.

I'm willing to clear both DGB and nom³ as town here.

VOTE: Titus

Titus sheep's you and then has been putting in a lot of effort to discredit nom³. If you have a guilty, why put in effort to discredit?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: nomnomnom

For me it's a combination of policy and too many coincidences that seals nom³.

Policy in the sense that they should have claimed Miller Day 1, and the fact that they probably wouldn't have drawn my roleblock if they hadn't made a big deal about them having an action.

Coincidence overload in the fact that they just so happen to be a Miller that was going to friendly neighbor the 1-shot cop who guilty scanned them, but got roleblocked by me. Like, I'm not a statististics guy, but this is a math based game, and I would love to hear the odds of all that happening.

This trajectory makes no sense.

[Titus]

DGB, if Nos flips town will you promise to vote in my scumpool until they are dead?

[Titus]

Toog is already in my scumpool.

VOTE: nomnomnom

You're to vote Xlos and Toog.

Then you have free reign to vote whomever not in my townblock. If both Xlos and Toog flip scum, Math does not live to lylo and is out of my townblock.

The only exception to this rule is a confirmed guilty.

If nom is scum, you have my vote on Toog tomorrow.

Edit: Vote changed for VCer.
~Ircher

[Titus]

DGB, my vote is yours, if you want it. There is a way Toog can be town.

I also have a minor FoS on A50 based on what nom flipped.

[Titus]

Do you care DGB? I feel like when I discuss mechanics with you that you're never going to trust me after Deco.

[Titus]

I blocked Galron last night; they're probably pissed off about it. I'm out of roleblocks.

It was a gut shot blocking.

Really? This supposes that Galron knew you blocked him and was angry despite most of the roles who would know are already dead/claimed/used.

Occam's is that he's voting you for your night action claim yesterday. Which might be where opportunistic scum go.

[Titus]

Also, Jake the memeing in place of solving needs to stop.

[Titus]

Could be a fake out but unlikely.

[Titus]

Could be a fake out but unlikely.

Unlikely. Nom had that role for a reason.

In the last game DGB and I played, town had a strongman finder...and scum had no strongman.

A flavor cop doesn't automatically mean flavor has meaning.

The only reason I FoS A50 is because he was asking for flavor claims as the flavor cop was dying.

[Titus]

Look at nomnomnom's role PM. This gives some more town credit to the people who were trying not to have a mass flavorclaim (wheme and mathblade) and more scum credit to those in favor (A50 and DG). For now, I still think A50 is the most suspicious all together.

VOTE: Almost50

This feels disingenuous given yesterday and d1.

[Titus]

@Galron, Why are you voting Toog?

[Titus]

@A50, DGB is still a suspect because bussing is a thing. I've got them in my "locktown" tier (meaning don't reassess until elo) but they still can be scum theoretically and we deal in math theories [/pun].

[Titus]

@Galron, Why are you voting Toog?

Reading last page of day 2 it seemed fairly clear that if nom flipped red, toogs was probably not a rb.

And you didn't consider the possibility of nom knowing he had been roleblocked by a town toog?

If nom had tried to use his flavorcop and failed, he could have deduced he was blocked.

[Titus]

@Galron,

It seems much more likely that nomnomnom knew he was blocked and thus a town roleblocker would have to come out to verify the claim. Particularly if nom could confirm himself.

It's not as black and white as it seems.

I don't see why scum burn Toog when cop guilties get eliminated 99 out of 100 times.

[Titus]

Also, Jake the memeing in place of solving needs to stop.

VOTE: Jake

I think this person should die.

Thoughts will be released later.

Vig shoot this.

Thank you.

[Titus]

CAST OF CALCULASIA

The townies

DrippingGoofball
Xlos
Titus
Galron

Scum MVP

MathBlade

Scum

Almost50
Jake The Wolfie
WhemeStar
Toogeloo

I'm willing to take WhemeStar out of my scumblock today.
I don't feel Toog is scum. Same with A50 but I would hammer both given I understand the reasons on both.
Jake is a nusiance read.

Xlos and Galron are the pair that read tonally scummy to me. Can you talk about your TR there?

[Titus]

I'll personally see to it that both I and DGB are dead tomorrow.

???

That's a weak hider claim.

One of the most powerful roles out there when played right.

I'm ignoring it. A50 claimed yesterday.

[Titus]

There’s also my other outstanding question of your VCA Titus.

Your feelings yesterday nom was town was bad.
Now you’re arguing Toog,A50, and DGB are all town and so follow the cop would exist.
This setup was reviewed by a good mod.
Good mods don’t allow follow the cop.

So either explain how follow the cop doesn’t exist here.

I'm not playing purely mechanically.

Follow the cop can't exist when DGB is out of shots though.

Maybe I'll have time for my VCA tonight. We'll see.

[Titus]

Playing a mech game gives scum room to burn. I just did that to DGB.

[Titus]

I disagree with your mechanical analysis. You suppose T3 would get a mechanical clear or a guilty just based on his actions. Getting a vanilla result is hard from a clear.

In this setup right now, we have 1 unlimmable and that's DGB. There's no further clears.

That's winnable.

If we have a town Toog, that's strictly negative utility. Toog could be town who blocked nomnomnom who was trying to flavor cop. The odds of Toog getting a positive block are slim. I'd compromise here but I think Toog is town.

A50 and Xlos deserve further consideration. Xlos fought to keep nomnomnom alive and is now pushing A50. A50 was seeking flavor claims as the cop went down. Yet, Xlos was seeking categories which made a flavor check easier.

[Titus]

Math, your argument is off the wall and inconsistent. You argue Toog is scum rb but the team is A50 and me.

I'm not doubting A50 can be scum. I'm just not joining your analysis that there must be scum.

[Titus]

A strongman can avoid follow the cop as well. What is suggested may not be true.

Toog may be scum, but mechanics don't damn him.

[Titus]

Alright, today has been much more exciting! Here are my thoughts. I will say the first one with high confidence.
1. Exactly one of DBG and nomnomnom are town. DBG is really going in for the kill here, it's unimaginable that they are both scum. Why can't they both be town? Well, think about it. If they are both town, then the sheer number of coincidences that need to have happened to get to this point is far too high. nomnomnom just so happened to be a miller, and DBG just so happened to be the (one-shot) cop, and DBG just so happened to investigate the miller day 1? This is really unlikely. Even given that one of them is telling the truth, both sides have very unlikely stories.

For those who believe nom's claim, explain why the mod would put in a miller when our cop only gets one shot?
(This is a discredit btw)

Your question also supports this conclusion.

Now for the next thought.
2. The one which is scum is DBG. Firstly, just in terms of post vibe, nomnomnom is more believable than DBG to me. DBG is pushing very hard for an early hammer, on the basis of nomnomnom having done an early hammer.
Secondly, and much more importantly, the cop claim is fake. Let's look at it:

The reason is that the claim.

So, yeah, I am a one-shot cop, no point hiding it since I am vanilla now.

I investigated and obviously got a guilty.

The first reason this appears fake: If true, there is no point in hiding this claim. And yet, he waits a very long time to do so. With no breadcrumbs beforehand.

The second reason this appears fake: It's incredibly convenient. DBG writes this claim very shortly after nomnomnom claims miller. I.E. it comes right after confirmation that this claim is ok to make appears. If DBG is scum, it's just found a way to claim a role without any risk, push his wagon against nomnomnom even harder, and not have any responsibilities later with having claimed cop.

The third reason this appears fake: DBG has no positive reaction to nomnomnom claiming miller. Either you believe the claim or you don't, this claim means that he has no reason to be more aggressive than anyone else. The miller claim comes before the cop claim, so it should have some doubt. Why is DBG still pushing hard for an early hammer at this point? Before I can even wake up and say my opinion? He appears to want to silence the other opinions quickly.

So for these reasons, I think that we should

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

But I'm also fine with killing someone else. I don't think killing nomnomnom now is a great move, since they have to power to confirm themselves with their friendly neighbor ability. Remember, they were blocked by town. Who cares that the cop is dead? nomnomnom can literally just confirm their role tomorrow provided there isn't a scum roleblocker. Votes on nomnomnom today are just useless

Now another thing I find interesting is how much people are chasing nomnomnom pre-miller claim. Yes, he hammered town, but T3 did the exact same thing in a situation that was way worse (The Flea wagon was more justified and much later in the day than the MURDERCAT wagon, hammering was reasonable).


So I do feel pretty suspicious of those early votes by WhemeStar, Almost50, Galron, and Titus. They say "I'll sheep" but

what are they even sheeping???

Literally just a naked vote with "DIE SCUM DIE" written above it. Uhhhhh

I also wanna briefly consider the information from MURDERCAT's doom. There are basically two reasons to NK him in particular: 1) He was close to conftown or 2) His suspicions were too close to the target. It's probably not 1, considering that MURDERCAT came right off of a full wagon, and I think that the only positive post others made about him was DG's 294 (small town points, definitely doesn't come close to balancing the above, though). I mean, most people feel sus to me though so maybe it was 1. In any case, 2) must have been a factor at least in part.

I think if I were to try to hero solve this would be my team:

{Almost50, theslimer3, Galron}

There's at least 1 scum in these 3. Not that knowing this is that helpful, 1 in 3 aren't the best odds. But there might be 2. IMO Galron is the most suspicious followed by Almost50, and theslimer seems fairly town to me.

Edit: Vote changed for VCer.
~Ircher

This post by Xlos concerns me given how hard he fights to test it.

[Titus]

*it is friendly neighbor

[Titus]

If you were going with your prior argument, dgb v nom is S v S. Posts like Xlos would be the third.

Xlos should be the wagon today.

VOTE: Xlos

[Titus]

I want to work with DGB and get its thoughts.

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

You have my sword until wrong.

If it's wrong, vote Xlos.

[Titus]

I do like A50's request to kill xlos, with the "tonight I guarantee," caveat, however.

A50 is going to hide with Xlos, if A50 dies then we know Xlos is scum. That's super townie.

A50's hide is a joke IMO.

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

You have my sword until wrong.

If it's wrong, vote Xlos.

Awesome. I hope you believe it's a good vote.

It's theoretically possible, so I follow. I disagree by mechanical play but that alone is not worth breaking my bond.

[Titus]

I do like A50's request to kill xlos, with the "tonight I guarantee," caveat, however.

A50 is going to hide with Xlos, if A50 dies then we know Xlos is scum. That's super townie.

A50's hide is a joke IMO.

Who am I to stop a vanilla townie from trying to draw the kill?

Fair enough. I was wrong.

[Titus]

I'm not sure if Titus scumreads me or if she just want me to die.

The latter. You're reminding me of our last scum game.

[Titus]

I don't think it's the second option because I don't think scum cared that much about saving nomnomnom much. He was doomed - as soon as he claimed friendly neighbor, he was guaranteed to die at some point in the next few days.

Why was Nom so hard to eliminate if scum weren't trying to swing it elsewhere? Like you were.

[Titus]

A bunch of players were gunning for MY head, so personally I didn't find nomnomnom an easy elim at all,

au contraire

.

I think the only reason nomnomnom got through at any rate of speed is because I had nom doubts (wanted Toog more at the time) but we needed town to work together as a block. If I don't make that bargain, town doesn't vote together as a unit.

[Titus]

I could see Math as scum. Math was really early to want to hammer and being obtuse about why people would want more discussion but I think DGB's read is correct. Waffle.

[Titus]

I think the only reason nomnomnom got through at any rate of speed is because I had nom doubts (wanted Toog more at the time) but we needed town to work together as a block. If I don't make that bargain, town doesn't vote together as a unit.

How egotistical.

I have my moments.

[Titus]

Xlos if scum I can tell doesn’t seem to have a grip on mechanics so if he’s scum we can probably just fluster him and he will break.

Then why are you stopping us from flustering him?

[Titus]

Woke up too late to do a look back.

Kind of expected Titus and other people to be online.

Where is everyone?

I'm in court.

[Titus]

There has to be something I am missing here.

You're trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Hunting everyone can help you find which one or more of your 3 is scum.

[Titus]

A> Neighbor with Wheme informed of flavor claim makes no sense. It’s more likely Nom flavor checked Wheme. If we assume DGB is town for the sake of argument and A50 is town for the sake of argument, then you have three people would have ways of alignment/role checks.

This assumption requires that Toog didn't block wheme.

[Titus]

*Toog didn't block Nom.

[Titus]

I think most everything is one or two shot. A50's "check" doesn't confirm Wheme as town. DGB is one shot, which leaves it prone to the bussing argument. Toog is unlikely to stop a kill. It follows scum are limited shot as well. We've likely blown our payload.

[Titus]

Math, Toog blocking Wheme was a typo.

[Titus]

Toog blocked Wheme? I'm not seeing this anywhere. Toog claimed to have RB'd nom and Galron. BOTH MAKE NO SENSE.

Did the scumteam target Wheme?

Typo blown out of proportion

[Titus]

It assumes that Toog was unsuccessful.
Toog could have submitted it as was driven/redirected elsewhere.
It doesn’t assume Toog didn’t block Wheme.

Wait what? I don't understand any of this.

I did only score a C+ in Cal II... I'm very proud of the "+" but it's not helping me in this game.

Math is suggesting an old role that is unpopular exists. It's called a bus driver. It swaps two people's targets.

[Titus]

So if Adam targets Brian. Scum swap Brian with Charlie. Adam ends up targeting Charlie unknowingly.

[Titus]

Should we wait for Galron's slot to come back before we axe Toog, or nah? I don't really feel comfortable axing Toog if Galron's slot didn't want to axe them, but on the other hand if Toog is scum then I don't really care what Galron says.

Don't like Jake rushing to lim Toog.

[Titus]

It assumes that Toog was unsuccessful.
Toog could have submitted it as was driven/redirected elsewhere.
It doesn’t assume Toog didn’t block Wheme.

Wait what? I don't understand any of this.

I did only score a C+ in Cal II... I'm very proud of the "+" but it's not helping me in this game.

This is my suggestion (assuming you are town)
Toog submits to the moderator “I want to RB Nom”
Nom submits “I want to flavor cop Wheme / Y”
Scum submits either redirect Toog to X
Or Toog and Y busdriven

Then when Nom gets guiltied he fake claims out his butt and Toog then announces he blocked Noom which then makes the fake claim plausible and scum learn of a roleblocker.

In this world scum A50’s team checked Wheme and since Wheme didn’t go “I am not Root Test” you scummy mcscumscum then it’s safe to say that is accurate knowledge.

So A50 neighbor hider informed flavor doesn’t make sense but A50 scum does

Nom's claim doesn't make sense with a bus driver. He was either blocked or scum with Toog.

[Titus]

Spoiler: snip!

It assumes that Toog was unsuccessful.
Toog could have submitted it as was driven/redirected elsewhere.
It doesn’t assume Toog didn’t block Wheme.

Wait what? I don't understand any of this.

I did only score a C+ in Cal II... I'm very proud of the "+" but it's not helping me in this game.

This is my suggestion (assuming you are town)
Toog submits to the moderator “I want to RB Nom”
Nom submits “I want to flavor cop Wheme / Y”
Scum submits either redirect Toog to X
Or Toog and Y busdriven

Then when Nom gets guiltied he fake claims out his butt and Toog then announces he blocked Noom which then makes the fake claim plausible and scum learn of a roleblocker.

In this world scum A50’s team checked Wheme and since Wheme didn’t go “I am not Root Test” you scummy mcscumscum then it’s safe to say that is accurate knowledge.

So A50 neighbor hider informed flavor doesn’t make sense but A50 scum does

Nom's claim doesn't make sense with a bus driver. He was either blocked or scum with Toog.

So you're saying Nom was.. Fakeclaiming?

Possible but not certain.

Either a) Toog blocked him or b) Toog is scum.

Nom doesn't claim blocked without backup.

[Titus]

Spoiler: snip!

It assumes that Toog was unsuccessful.
Toog could have submitted it as was driven/redirected elsewhere.
It doesn’t assume Toog didn’t block Wheme.

Wait what? I don't understand any of this.

I did only score a C+ in Cal II... I'm very proud of the "+" but it's not helping me in this game.

This is my suggestion (assuming you are town)
Toog submits to the moderator “I want to RB Nom”
Nom submits “I want to flavor cop Wheme / Y”
Scum submits either redirect Toog to X
Or Toog and Y busdriven

Then when Nom gets guiltied he fake claims out his butt and Toog then announces he blocked Noom which then makes the fake claim plausible and scum learn of a roleblocker.

In this world scum A50’s team checked Wheme and since Wheme didn’t go “I am not Root Test” you scummy mcscumscum then it’s safe to say that is accurate knowledge.

So A50 neighbor hider informed flavor doesn’t make sense but A50 scum does

Nom's claim doesn't make sense with a bus driver. He was either blocked or scum with Toog.

So you're saying Nom was.. Fakeclaiming?

Possible but not certain.

Either a) Toog blocked him or b) Toog is scum.

Nom doesn't claim blocked without backup.

Is everyone just now reaching this conclusion?

Been there since day 2.

[Titus]

Spoiler: snip!

It assumes that Toog was unsuccessful.
Toog could have submitted it as was driven/redirected elsewhere.
It doesn’t assume Toog didn’t block Wheme.

Wait what? I don't understand any of this.

I did only score a C+ in Cal II... I'm very proud of the "+" but it's not helping me in this game.

This is my suggestion (assuming you are town)
Toog submits to the moderator “I want to RB Nom”
Nom submits “I want to flavor cop Wheme / Y”
Scum submits either redirect Toog to X
Or Toog and Y busdriven

Then when Nom gets guiltied he fake claims out his butt and Toog then announces he blocked Noom which then makes the fake claim plausible and scum learn of a roleblocker.

In this world scum A50’s team checked Wheme and since Wheme didn’t go “I am not Root Test” you scummy mcscumscum then it’s safe to say that is accurate knowledge.

So A50 neighbor hider informed flavor doesn’t make sense but A50 scum does

Nom's claim doesn't make sense with a bus driver. He was either blocked or scum with Toog.

So you're saying Nom was.. Fakeclaiming?

Possible but not certain.

Either a) Toog blocked him or b) Toog is scum.

Nom doesn't claim blocked without backup.

Is everyone just now reaching this conclusion?

Been there since day 2.

[Titus]

Most mods consider that bastard.

[Titus]

Math, you're creating roles that don't exist. A vig likely would have shot their payload.

[Titus]

Math, you're creating roles that don't exist. A vig likely would have shot their payload.

They could have shot at someone who died or holstered.

A vig makes more sense than giving scum a useless power that would be CC’d.

Could have could have. That's the key word. You're speculating theories to fit your opinion rather than your opinion to fit the facts.

The arguably bad design by the mod (nom would be cced) is true regardless of if a vig exists or not. Nom would look better in that cc because he's gated, like everyone else.

There's no certainty scum must exist in the PRs. They can exist but hunting exclusively there is bad.

[Titus]

If you have to assume scum have a useless PR to make your reads work your reads are bad.

The trend is actually to include useless/suggestive setups lately. See Mini Normal 2215.

[Titus]

If you want A50 dead, case him by play. We're sick of your mechanics conclusion. No one agrees with you. Consider the possibility you are wrong and scumhunt elsewhere and scumhunt everywhere by play or stop drowning the thread.

I want to talk to DGB but I feel like I can't.

[Titus]

None of that is useless to scum.

Right. Town had a useless strongman detector which I abused.

[Titus]

Welp Math is likely stubborn town who refuses to listen, regardless of his accuracy. His push makes me real disinclined to vote A50.

[Titus]

@Math, The way you're approaching this is terrible. You're trying to dictate your perception onto the thread and arguing anyone who disagrees is scummy. It isolates yourself from the game. Town get afraid to work with you and scum shut down which prevents hunting for their partners. You're not doing anyone any favors by refusing to scumhunt half the thread.

[Titus]

Titus is just ignoring me ):

What am I ignoring?

[Titus]

Overall, I think there's a decent chance Toog is town and that nom set him up. However, I can never be 100% certain of that. Toog could very well be in the situation where he's town but cannot live until lylo. I feel bad for Toog if he's town here.

Toog, can you give a reads list?

[Titus]

A50 feels really town.

Math, what does your gameboard look like if A50, Toog and DGB are town?

[Titus]

A50 feels really town.

Math, what does your gameboard look like if A50, Toog and DGB are town?

You scum and I don’t know who with. I can’t really formulate a game board atm with it because I can’t formulate a setup that works with all of them town. So I would probably elim you out of sheer paranoia and if I am that far fucked it’s probably because of you and you’re one of the few scum who can get me that confused.

You are still refusing to take in other views into account. Your mere dismissal of me being scum when in this scenario, I would be moving to correct you makes no sense. Scum reading me based on what I am theoretically capable is not evidence. It's pride.

I'm looking to try and get some thought and analysis out of you and it's like pulling teeth.

[Titus]

What promise would we be waiting on A50 for?

[Titus]

@A50, I request that you not threaten to do things to appease others.

If I should take your comment about assuring you and DGB are dead, there's much better targets than DGB. Second, you will be required to do that pre-lylo. Period. One of my favorite scum games of all time involved the role you were hinting at. Town kept counterclaiming me and getting miseliminated. So if I am going to hold you to that but we can find you a better target.

[Titus]

Also, if I am correct, that role arguably needs a content warning unless it was renamed like the mafia discussion thread implied.

[Titus]

You read me holding A50 accountable.

[Titus]

I think A50 is doing a refuge in audacity.

We're still flipping Toog today.

[Titus]

I am using the term right. A50 is doing so much crazy stuff to avoid dying by a nightkill. Hider and bomber, what do they have in common? They are useless night kills. He's generating a wifom.

Toog is frankly better because DGB has been on fire this game. I trust its judgment more than my own currently. If DGB is ever wrong, I'll move back to being independent. I made a deal too and I intend to keep it unless DGB says self vote.

DGB has swingy games. Sometimes it's in bad player jail. Sometimes it's hot. I'm riding the hot wave.

[Titus]

DGB can't do a scumputer based on this little data. It's the same reason I can't do my VCA.

DGB also has to play differently a little bit so it can sort me. If DGB is double bussing, do you really think it will survive with the two most moonlogicky slots in the game.

In sports, stick with the hot hand. I'll give my reads but DGB has my sword.

[Titus]

I would be voting Jake. The game is stale and he's trolling which is of no use. We just finished a scum game together where town imploded. He could be looking for the same thing.

[Titus]

Also I'm thinking we should count Galron as conftown for getting blocked.

I don't get this with two scum alive.

[Titus]

TLDR

The problem is when you decide that you'll go with what you think is mathematically probable to the exclusion of all else you create several problems.

1) You treat your probabilities as fact, leaving little room for day play. It leaves little room for others to read you as your motivations are not clear.

Second, you fail to consider not all players are rational beings. A50 is towntelling so hard with his frustration with you but you aren't listening because of setup spec probabilities in your opinion. You don't think his play is optimal for town, therefore you scumread it.

You're failing to support your townreads (if you have any). Your townreads can't figure out or sync with someone refusing to read half the game because "scum must be in the PRs".

Your approach to A50 looks arbitrary. Toog has his reasons for being suspect, yet you hardly look there. You aren't considering the accuracy of other slots.

How is anyone supposed to work with you when you lay down edicts and expect us to follow?

I saw a problem that DGB was not going to vote who I thought was scum (Toog and Xlos) because it was deadset on voting its night result. I wasn't sure it was accurate but I knew I could trust it to honor a deal if it was wrong. I can't build that trust with you because you play exclusively to the probabilities (that are just your opinion).

[Titus]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

No. No. Fuck that. I'm not taking your shit right now. You don't get to decide ifbother people are being genuine or not.

Isn't that the point of the game for town?

[Titus]

I don't know about Titus. I'll trust your read more than mine.

This is fair given the last game, but I hope you'll see the differences.

[Titus]

today I’ll vote Toog if both DGB and Titus vote A50 tomorrow.

100% willing to commit to this.

I'm in if Toog flips town.

[Titus]

Scum will claim to vig me tonight and Toog will claim to have roleblocked a townie and frame that townie as scum.

Toog claimed out of shots.

[Titus]

today I’ll vote Toog if both DGB and Titus vote A50 tomorrow.

100% willing to commit to this.

today I’ll vote Toog if both DGB and Titus vote A50 tomorrow.

100% willing to commit to this.

I'm in if Toog flips town.

I don't like this. Why flip A50 if toog flips green? A50's been saying toog is town. That doesn't make sense.

If toog is scum my strategy is correct so I should follow that. If it's wrong then I should follow the opposing wagon to check its accuracy

[Titus]

Scum will claim to vig me tonight and Toog will claim to have roleblocked a townie and frame that townie as scum.

Toog claimed out of shots.

He can say he lied about the number of shots.

True but that's a scumclaim given what we have seen flipped.

[Titus]

@Mathblade, Join us on Toog. If we're wrong, you'll likely get your A50 flip tomorrow. If we're right, we get scum. This is also within your PoE of three. It's a win win proposition for us all.

[Titus]

This isnt really working. Everyone is too committed to their reads.

This is why I revoted nom yesterday. You get townpoints for trying to work this out. It's precisely what I did yesterday so it's not a lock but major improvement (unless Toog and A50 are both town).

[Titus]

probably Titus w/ A50 since she's been much more of a sheep than usual then "rah rah I am Titus god here me these are the scummy scums"

You're making a caricature out of both my town game and my scumgame.

[Titus]

That's just it though. None of that is true. There was a big debate over whether I am more agreeable as town or less, more sane or less sane. This also happened a bit in the nuclear terrorist game. In neither game did I have strong scumreads, in both I was town. In the terrorist game, I was agreeable. In the Dogs and Cats mafia I wasn't.

Here, someone needs to be agreeable. Too many chefs and not enough voters.

[Titus]

BOTH SCUM are in Xlos/Math/Wheme. I PROMISE.

Why those three?

[Titus]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86449 - Town in Terrorist game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=86525 - Town in Dogs and Cats mafia

Both these had debates on me being town or scum re: meta.

[Titus]

HURT: WhemeStar
VOTE: A50

Edit: Apparently hurt tags count as votes to Thesp's counter. I have swapped the two lines in this post as a result.
~Ircher

[Titus]

What does that mean l

It means I'd be voting you if I hadn't promised my vote on A50.

[Titus]

This distinction is really important.

I did not check

you.

I just assumed that you were clever enough to put two and two together, and would have killed me last night if you were scum.

So you're saying you have another result then and it's on Xlos?

[Titus]

I don't think your analysis is wrong (reservations that I will check after date night), but I struggle to believe your premise.

It requires

1) DGB is a town full cop with every other town role being gated.
2) A scum full roleblocker sitting around with zilch likely town actionable claims doesn't block the cop in case it lied.
2b) Scum have a strongman but gambled on DGB not lying despite every other claim having at least two shots. It follows DGB would as well.

What's logically likely is that DGB is either a 2 shot cop or an odd night cop. That would give it one clear extra instead of two.

[Titus]

….There are sometimes when you should examine the premise and sometimes when you shouldn’t. If you’re town you completely missed what I was doing.

I thought you explicitly asked me to look at your premise.

#confused

[Titus]

I asked you to look at the conclusion not the premise.

#facepalm

How do I look at the conclusion without looking at the premise? If that's the goal next time, please say something like if you assume my moonlogic is true, does my conclusion makes sense? Maybe that'll work.

[Titus]

The fact DGB didn’t die and Jake did is odd as fuck. I am trying to figure out if it is scum killing threats or if scum killed Jake for a reason.

*sigh*

That feeling when you can’t pull a Titus correctly.

I agree with this though not so much DGB specifically but anyone in the towncore.

[Titus]

Hell you could even be a scum odd night cop to get around the rolecop. A de facto godfather.

This is the absurdity that is town!Mathblade

[Titus]

Again who did you check N3 if anyone?

I want to know this too.