MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

[Almost50]

Spoiler: spoilered image

die ircher
VOTE: Ircher

I'm not sure about this one. Without giving any spoilers, its odd. Every clock in the game should read exactly 3:33 except for one person's. What does that even mean?

VOTE: Xlos

Do I know you?? Introduce yourself at once!

[Almost50]

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

When my brain is working I should be good at it (I studied civil engineering, although I never actually worked in the field).

[Almost50]

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

He's my brother. I claim post 314.

Best answer!

Titus gets a free pass for this game

[Almost50]

All the cool people are doing it, even me!

Did the mod include a JESTER???

Also, why is this game so slow? Why aren't we out of RVS already?? What's going on exactly??

[Almost50]

I'd argue that my role pm seems to be more of a law than a thing from somewhere.

Liar. I didn't send you anything.

[Almost50]

By the way, anyone who claims a type of Modified Rolecop is confirmed town. This information I have from somewhere that I will not elaborate on furter.

Really?? OK.. I am a type of Modified Rolecop. Now I'm confirmed town. Thank you.

[Almost50]

Ah... a scum claim on page 3!

Explain??

P.S. I am already voting there, but it was RVS. Request to sheep based on your reasoning.

[Almost50]

My Role PM doesn't mention a location, but to be fair, I didn't understand half of what my PM was saying.

Xlos doesn't know that because he doesn't have a green role PM

I may have misunderstood; but I thought it was a theory. I did get bad vibes from it though, but -as I couldn't explain it- I didn't comment.

[Almost50]

by the way if we could end days with a prime number of pages that would be very great thank you

Is this the post you're talking about?

[Almost50]

@DGB: AGAIN, how I interpreted his post was "I

presume

the mod decided to do so and so, although it is not explicitly mentioned in the PM". I thought that might be some kind of role fishing, so I ignored it. He didn't say that

it is

mentioned in the Role PM though, as then he wouldn't have needed to explain it in details the way he did.

My guess is the scum team got one role from each of the "presumed" categories, and Xlos thus assumed one PR and one VT from each (or something like that) so it still would have benefited Scum to know that kind of info to plan their pushes and NKs.

[Almost50]

OK, I'll play: Calculus

[Almost50]

@Xlos: Now please keep me updated as to what you get/deduce from this.

[Almost50]

Nope, but MeMe is.

In fact, he still is indeed.

[Almost50]

This is indeed the slowest start of a game I've been in for the past 6 months. I'll blame it on the weekend and hope that it becomes a bit more active in the next 48 hours.

Also: Umlaut, Murdercat & nom have one scumster between them. I don't think it's nom but I can't guarantee it either.

[Almost50]

Backup Moderator: Umlaut

lol?

Almost is on the scum pings list

Oh, Shucks!

Replace Umlaut with Wheme then ("First three posters of any given game contain 1 scum 80% of the time" rule)

Also, MC voting me for this implies she is the Scum of the 3.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Edit: Vote changed to be read by VCer. Don't forget that case matters.
~Ircher

[Almost50]

You're feeling pretty different this game monkey. Way less cheery than I've seen you in other games, what happen?

I don't think this is true, but IF that's the case then you should know the reason without me explaining it.

[Almost50]

eh, maybe it's the monkey butt avatar

Bingo! I'm not too proud of my reads of late, and I've lost more games than I should have.

As for voting Jake, my only concern is he wants to be voted and seems to be happy about it. That's neither Town nor Scum, but this game sis confirmed to be 10 v 3 so I'm truly puzzled.

[Almost50]

("First three posters of any given game contain 1 scum 80% of the time" rule)

Any random group of 3 players is more likely than not to have at least one scum

Where did you get "random"? Cuz I specified the first 3 posters. Unless you're saying people post at random.

[Almost50]

I'm saying that that rule isn't likely to be meaningful compared to picking any 3 players at random

And I'm saying it is meaningful in my experience. Like, if I picked the 3 at the top of the list (now THAT is random) it'd have the "normal" odds of 3/13 for each slot. First 3 posters has a higher hit rate because there's almost always one scum that wants to start strong, one that is late tot the party and one that is a lurksack and likely to flake.

[Almost50]

I do know how to make 2+2=5 though :3

I do too.

[Almost50]

lol he's the one who omgused me

More votes here. please. I promised myself if you did NOT bring up OMGUS that I'd reconsider, but your reaction here is Scum 101. (Town would have backed off once they realized why I put Umlaut on the list by mistake)

[Almost50]

Good on you.

WIAT!

That wasn't even why you voted me in the first place. I had yet to state that rule when you did.

Go back to the top of this page to see why you actually voted me, SCUM.

[Almost50]

Backup Moderator: Umlaut

lol?

Almost is on the scum pings list

VOTE: Almost50

Actually feel good enough to do this

Backup Moderator: Umlaut

lol?

Almost is on the scum pings list

Oh, Shucks!

Replace Umlaut with Wheme then ("First three posters of any given game contain 1 scum 80% of the time" rule)

Also, MC voting me for this implies she is the Scum of the 3.

VOTE: Murdercat

How does this sequence suggest you voted me because you thought the rule was "an easy way to fake reads"??

[Almost50]

Sorry this took me sometime to verify the info:

Exhibit 1 Cakez was Scum
Exhibit 2 Ircher & Flea were both Scum
Exhibit 3 Drapion & Gypyx were both Scum
Exhibit 4 STD was Scum
Exhibit 5 Kitty was Scum
Exhinit 6 NDMath was Scum
Exhibit 7 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 8 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 9 Korina was Anti-Town
Exhibit 10 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 11 Oka was Scum
Exhibit 12 Mini was Scum
Exhibit 13 We Brought & BBM were both Scum

Breakdown:
3 No Scum in 1st 3 posters
7 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters
3 2 Scums in 1st 3 posters

Average: Exactly 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters

I believe these were all the finished games I've been involved in during the last 6 months.

Final decision: Assuming 1 Scum in the 1st 3 posters works more often than not.

[Almost50]

I suggest everybody check their last 5 games and see if Scum posted in the the 1st 3. If you get 4 games out of 5 you should probably vote MC here (or at least look closely at them 1st 3 posters(. If you get less than 3 games out of 5 you should ignore me. Exactly 3? Up to you. Just check your own games for funzies

[Almost50]

Can you quote town games where you invoked the rule?

?? These were ALL the games I played this year. My alignment shows in every game.

[Almost50]

I may have done it in some, yes, but I used the rule more often than I had spoken of it.

But what does it matter? Let's say -hypothetically- that this is the 1st time I speak of it, or even apply it. How does that change the fact that in 10 out 13 games the rule did apply?

[Almost50]

Oh, well. You caught me. *Smirk*

But seriously; Let me get back to you about this in a few days. Remind me to.

[Almost50]

Also I'm not saying your rule doesn't work, I'm saying it works with any 3 players and isn't useful for that reason

You do realize that a mean of "a whole one" is a lot more than the mean on "any random 3 players" (which is 0.692). Right?
And you do realize that the Stantard Deviation here is 1.209 which means the result tends to be close enough to the mean/expected value. Yes? (I do realize your "any random 3" has a SD of 0.961 which is even better, but considering your expected value isn't "1" that's still less than what my rule yields).

I mean, we're in a a Battle for Calculasia, so we're bound to use our mathematical/statistical weapons after all, and I'm applying simple statistics and probability here.

[Almost50]

No? Show me..

[Almost50]

Also IRRELEVANT: Remind me when your Open Draft Mafia is open for sign-ups of you will. I think I replaced into one earlier, but I want to be in the whole thing from the start

[Almost50]

Let me simplify it for you, DGB:

There are 135 combinations (of 3) that contain exactly 1 Scum, 30 that contain exactly 2 Scums, and one that contains 3, out of of a total of 286 combinations in a 13-players setup.

That is to say there are 166/286 combinations that include at least one scum in MC's "random" theory. That's like 58% of all combinations.

My proposition gives 10 out of 13 cases which is about 76.9%

My "mean" or "average" would net one scum per set of 3 (first posters), while MC's would net less than 0.7 per set. So, hypothetically if we applied my method to 100 cases and MC's to 100 cases I would get 100 Scums and he will get only 70

The SD is smaller for his proposition, so his results will revolves around the mean (0.7) with less deviation than mine would around a whole one, but given that my mean is higher my proposition still gives better results over time (because mine revolves around one.. give or take, and his revolves around 0.7 give or take, and with a SD of 0.96 is unlikely to ever get much higher).

But if you don't want to work your brain at all, just look at my games to get the gist of it. There's a 76.9% chance there's scum in the 1st 3 posters (or if you choose to trust me it's closer to 80% over a bigger sample).

[Almost50]

Currently: Bad reaction to my initial push on him.

My initial push was based on my theory of there being 1 Scum in the 1st 3 posters in any given Mafia game (backed up by examples in post 153), but I neither explained nor did I actually FoS anyone in particular at the beginning. I just said nom was less likely to be it. MC used my mistake (of counting the Co-mod in my 3 first posters list) and voted me for it. I thought that made him more likely scum than the other two and voted him and only then did I explain my theory. MC then doubled down claiming my theory was an easy way to fake reads, although that wasn't why he voted e at first.

If anything AT ALL I believe I did move the game out of RVS with that post (which was one of my main objectives of posting it). I guess now is the time I should note that I am a Neighbor and that my Neighbor knows this because I had asked them to ask me why those 3 if they were online, but nom did it first anyway. I told my Neighbor specifically that them engaging me on this one should move the game out of RVS, so -at least- I did that regardless of whether my read on MC is correct.

[Almost50]

And -unless I'm too sleepy to realize a "major mistake" I'm making- the only mistake I did was in the SD of MC's "3 randoms" proposition. It should me more like 0.666 rather than 0.692m but that changes absolutely nothing overall.

[Almost50]

Breakdown:
3 No Scum in 1st 3 posters
7 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters
3 2 Scums in 1st 3 posters

Average: Exactly 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters

How can we trust that this data is not cherry picked?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... &sr=topics

Check for yourself

[Almost50]

OR.. do it with YOUR OWN games. I believe I did request everybody to check their most recent 5 games.

[Almost50]

Jake; I presume you know I'm short tempered to such bad arguments. If you didn't know, you know now. You have 3 options:

1- Check for yourself that these are ALL my games in 2021. All FINISHED ones that is.
2- Check your own most recent games. last 5. Last 7. last 10. Whatever.
3- Brush it off and ignore it.

Repeating the same question after it has been answered isn't interesting, my friend.

[Almost50]

Pick another player. Go for Nero's.. Titus'.. RadiantCowbells' .. Not_Mafia even... just pock someone who has played many games and check their most recent games

[Almost50]

Nope. I've played with them both in the same game before.

[Almost50]

Another one argues against a proven fact! *Sigh*

Say you're not sold on MC, and I'll buy it. Say the rule isn't foolproof and I will accept your argument. But to say it makes no sense when I've provided proof AND asked that you check your own games is in fact the argument that doesn't make any sense to me. It's like saying "Goon is the most common role for Mafia makes no sense".

If you want to argue against the rule; do a research on your own games and come back to me with something like "Well, here are my last 7 games and scum posted in the 1st 3 in only 2 of them"

[Almost50]

I don't know. He said this 2 hours ago and took a deep dive into the ocean.

It is now!

I will do the math in a bit, but it's mostly academic and not really game relevant

Anyone intending to hammer should state intent and ask for a claim I guess?

[Almost50]

I believe it is. he was E-3 in the last VC, then Toog, slimer and you

[Almost50]

@Jake: No, that's totally fine. 6 out of 9, and 8 scums netted. Now do you think this supports the rule or not?

@T3: I don't see how you "accidentally" hammered when you had a P-edit suggesting you did see that MC was @E-1

[Almost50]

Simply because it hasn't been used that often, so it remains the case. Once it gains momentun Scum are going to try to be "late to the party" I guess

[Almost50]

@MC: Do you want to claim, perhaps?

[Almost50]

I think T3 should put his vote back on MC. I don't believe this "rigid face" reaction from him. I think it's more likely to come from Scum who knew they weren't hammered.

[Almost50]

A50, do you think MC would freak out if they were town who knew they weren't hammered?

NO, but he'd be pissed enough to throw out some fumes, not just a one-line comment and disappear.

[Almost50]

You still need to claim, MC. There's no reason for this wagon to dissolve if you're acting like it isn't there to begin with.

[Almost50]

You didn't respond to me disproving your whole theory by the way

I will let others decide if you did

[Almost50]

If you want to argue against the rule; do a research on your own games and come back to me with something like "Well, here are my last 7 games and scum posted in the 1st 3 in only 2 of them"

You say this, I do it, and now you don't want to engage about it?

I did say this, yes.. but did you do it?? You handpicked some examples. That's what you did. You're not even a player in the bottom 2 games (I only checked top and bottom and when I didn't find your name in the latter I checked the one above it),

So, what basis did you even have for picking those precise games?

[Almost50]

A50, is your hypothesis that the 1st 3 posters contain exactly, or at least 1 scum?

Exactly is much more likely in a 13-players list. 2 becomes slightly more probable in larges (and especially so in Multi-Ball)

[Almost50]

I went to the completed open games page and opened all of them on the first page and took every game with 13 players with 3 mafia.
There were a couple that had to be removed for e.g. being abandoned and not easily being able to tell who the scum are but other than that there was no cherry picking at all.

All cool and dandy, but:

A) Why the OPEN games? This isn't an Open. (I ask because you did exclude non-13-players games, so you must've been trying to do me one better by providing the stats for identical or semi-identical games. No?)

B) Your sample does not include a single game from 2021 it seems. I don't recall having stated that this was a rule back in 2015 or 2017. I'd accept the games from 2019 on, but older games are voided IMHO.

Now let's try again..

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=84282 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83417 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83235 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=83553 (0)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82564 (0)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=82037 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81655 (2)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=78009 (1)
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=78448 (1)

Do the math for THIS sample.

[Almost50]

Pure coincidence indeed.

(But if sworn in court I shall take the 5th)

I was being silly because I feel that you were. Are you telling me YOU don't have enough finished games??

Like, the reason I did mine was because it was easy for me to remember the details of the games once in the relevant thread. It also works as a "random" sample (unless you believe people behave differently in my presence). I want the current site meta, not 2, 3, 4 or 5 years ago. I mean this tell probably won't work 3 months from now. Be reasonable and impartial and I may buy your counterargument.

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

You're in luck. I am in 3 of those (the top 3) and only the top 2 belong to 2021 (the sample I took from my own games). The thing is the second one I didn't include (it somehow either slipped my sight or was relegated down the page in favor of older games that have been recently locked by Isis)

But anyway, this is evidence that I may have missed some data that would influence the overall outcome, and thus I'll withdraw my case for the time being.

Have a good day

[Almost50]

It's still early but Jake and MURDERCAT give off good vibrations.

[Almost50]

My mathmatical skill is comparible to orks.

One... One... More... more... many... lots... chaingun.
VOTE: MURDERCAT

Edit: Vote modified to be read properly by the automated VCer.
~Ircher

I have a City and Guilds Level 2 Adult Educations in Maths

Equivalent to a General Certificate of Secondary Education at Grade C

I would like everyone to detail their relationship with math, your answers will be considered alignment-indicative.

He's my brother. I claim post 314.

Titus can be locktown just for that

how awful it would be if I just stole it..

I have absolutely no clue where I'm from in this imaginary Math Land

Ya'll are doing too much Mathy stuff for me.

I do know how to make 2+2=5 though :3

I don't like this ISO. It feels void of anything meaty, and "assuming" MC is ton the vote on him was opportunistic.

[Almost50]

There's really only two explanations for the first 3 posters thing. Either it's a coincidence, or cherry picked data.

Add this game to your list on coincidences if you will.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Flea The Magician

[Almost50]

MC + Flea + ??

[Almost50]

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

Good evening, everyone. *Yelling up at Ircher* and happy birthday to you!

I'll help ya

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

[Almost50]

What do you think is better? Putting nom @E-2 before he gets to post??

And besides, Jake ahs been self-voting all game, so why not oblige him out of courtesy??

[Almost50]

Nah! I'll just wait for 2 more votes on him and HAMMER. Now THAT would be much mire fun.

[Almost50]

Either you're all playing so bad you should be banned for it, or scum have worked out the most convoluted plan in history.
VOTE JAKE (who also claimed Miller on D2 and nobody seems to care)

One more thing: I bloody lost my bloody internet once bloody again (can anyone tell I'm bloody pissed?). Mobile posting sucks rocks

[Almost50]

God damn it. Mobile posting. I have no idea how to highlight (i.e. partial quote)

Anyway, imagine that I did quote the part where Xlos says he suspects sherp votes

Now this is my response:

I'll sheep then I'd vote DGB

But I actually still want Jake and typing DGB's full name just for a meme is not really worth the trouble

[Almost50]

MathBlade replaces theslimer3.

Weall know what it means s for a slot to be replaced twice already, do 't we?

But I would feel bad denying Mathblade playing a game with this flavour so he's my tomorrow's push

[Almost50]

@mathblade: really sorry to disappoint you if you're town, but you get not much from me today. I hate phone posting and the more I do it the more I hate it

However, I would like to draw your attention that both my cop claim and that of Titus were obvious jokes in response to the who claimed informed of a modified rolecop and that whoever claims it should be confirmed

[Almost50]

Nobody took the hammer? How strange
I definitely think scum is afraid of hammering me here, my flip will change a lot about this game
I need to reset mentally, I'll give this game a reread tomorrow
UNVOTE:

I don't think your flip changes anything tbh. I mean this as either alignment. If town, and I think you are, that doesn't incriminate anyone since a cop would get a guilty on a Miller still, and toog explained why your FN didn't work.

So, DGB can still be town or scum, and even toog could be either. Hell if DGB is scum toog could be the partner that fake claimed in case you did flip.

Now if you are scum, which is still possible albeit improbable IMHO, DGB could still be your p based on Math's case. Toog could still be your p who faked the RB still.

In short, your flip gives us absolutely nothing to work with next.

[Almost50]

I have the second highest post count in the game and I'm "not trying."

Titus, I think MathBlade may be scum here. I'd appreciate your input.

Based on the double replacements I am willing to accept this proposition. That and him making lots of sense, which tends to come from scum him more often in my personal experience

Still, being nice to him is what prevents me from pushing him today. If the game was about animals, music, cars or whatever I would have pushed him today, but the game is about mathematics, so..

On another note, my good is dead just as I expected. I want my neighbour to obv!town as they promised to, because I'm starting to have ideas.

[Almost50]

so I am actually curious about your thought process

I don't have one
At least nothing solid. I just think that unless richer decided to tailor a ridiculously overpowered role for you (that doesn't match what seems to be a sea of weak powers) I don't see how you "guessed" you were both blocked and investigated so you can tailor a fake claim accordingly.

I also don't see the point for scum!you to make that fuss about ending the day on a prime number on day one when you could've went subtle about it or never even mentioned it.

Now am confident of anything at all? Nope. And it shows in my analysis for why your flip doesn't give us much regardless of your alignment.

[Almost50]

@titus: I think toog is more likely town here. My proposition to noom that toog could still be scum was a theoretical argument to show that mom's flip doesn't give us any solid info

@math: I claimed neighbour early day one. I have yet to out my neighbour though, but I feel that I should elaborate on my own role (to give those who like to nod spec something to chew on)

I am an Informed Neighbour, but my information is useless thus far (I am told about another player's flavour). Obviously out good has only two members. The hood has very few posts .. not even 15 iirc. My neighbor told me to wait for them to obv!town and so far I don't see anyone obv!downing tbh.. not even I

[Almost50]

Post 175 was where I outed I was a neighbour (but said nothing more). Sorry the post is too long and I can't highlight a specific part (I would have to manually delete irrelevant content using the back space button)

[Almost50]

Great! So I typed all that for nothing as math had already found my initial claim.

That now proves Titus doesn't read (not my day 1 claim and not my day 2 mention of it). Funnily enough I think it indicative of her town game as she would be looking for crumbs and hints as scum I think.

[Almost50]

I thought someone said the mod hinted flavour claiming may have bad consequences, but rereading the rules he only sai scum have additional fake claims.

I am thinking we should all flavour claim as it won't hurt

I'll even go first: Ratio Test. I crumbed it in my first post iirc. Just copy and paste the nonsense I typed there about clocks all set to a specific time and Google it

[Almost50]

@Math: this could be my only chance to catch someone in a lie. Alternatively it should lock everybody to their claimed flavour, so it effectively refuses any additional fake flavours if requested. I reread the rules specifically for that part.

[Almost50]

And to be precise, the mod said additional FAKE claims can be provided upon request. One cannot fake claim after they had already true claimed. So either lock oneself for the true flavour or try to fake now and risk being caught in a lie (plus they can't change it at their convenience later in even if they faked and they weren't the one I was informed about)

[Almost50]

Finally, half of us have already claimed their roles or at least crumbed them. Let's start with dgb, nom, toog & t3

[Almost50]

DON'T LIMB FLEA LIFE STUFF IS NAI THIS WAGON IS SCUM MOTIVATED

Doing random ISOs and this probably hints T3 is town

[Almost50]

5. While flavor doesn't necessarily correspond to alignment, scum have been offered additional fake claims and the ability to request ones (to match a specific role) during the game.

See this? Scum can request fake

flavor

to match a specific role.

Fake what? Fake

flavor

. What's that again? Fake flavor. How do you spell that? Eff ell avor

My role would be bloody meaningless if there weren't fake flavours. My role is meant to either confirm some isn't lying or that someone is indeed lying. This why I accept both nom & DGB's claims as each of us three should confirm exactly one player. Not 2, not 3.. just ONE.

[Almost50]

MathBlade is probably town. Just general helpfulness tbh

I agree.. very much. You wanna know how much?

VOTE: mathblade

THAT much

[Almost50]

Now that I got this out of the way, I will explain for the very last time: I am informed that "a specific something" is the flavor of "a specific someone". I don't want to say whose flavor I am informed of because that tips that specific someone to say the truth about their flavor and tips everyone else that they can lie about theirs.

My info is in the form of "you know that <player name>'s flavor is <specific flavor>.

I am not looking for a needle in the barn. I know what I'm looking for and know from whom I want it.

[Almost50]

@A50, What are your thoughts of Xlos trying to get everyone to claim what branch of math we were?[/quote]

Ok..I guess me messing up quotes is going to be an issue for a while, but anyway..

I ignored on d2 and explained why but the really odd think of Xlos is now pushing for wanting more flavor claims out of already outed PRs, when 2 of them had already claimed their respective flavours, one is presumably out of shots, and one is merely "informed".

Talk about subconscious guilt projection.

Also to elsborate: let's say I know your flavor. If I die today/tonight I would have not benefited from my info at all. I want you to claim your flavor so -if you're scum- I could either catch you in a lie (and my death would not be in vain) or lock you with your true flavour so you can't change it conveniently in late game

I don't even see what the flavor would suggest about the role. Like, all tests can be interpreted as investigative roles if the mod wanted to yet I myself am not

[Almost50]

I'm pretty certain that scum flavor will be distinguishable from town flavor

Although your scum equity has sky rocketed in my eyes, I'll still give you the benefit of doubt and bite: Give me example(s) of hypothetical scum flavor please. Like, is.. um .. Newton's Forward Difference Formula Scum or Town? How about L'Hopitals's Rule? Give me some directions, Mister Genius.

[Almost50]

I think claiming flavor is really dumb

Good, now please be dumb enough to either claim it here or in our hood. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

@ALL: I am not taking this non-sense anymore. In every game someone decides to go against logic "just because" (or maybe

because

they're scum and are afraid to get caught) (Disclaimer: This isn't directed at you, Mathblade).

Anyone who refuses to claim their flavour will be tunneled to death. No exceptions.

And I will start with my useless neighbour who told me to vote Flea with them and then decided to abandon the hood.

VOTE: WhemeStar

But I am also eying Xlos

[Almost50]

Nom, if you had just claimed miller D1 you wouldn't have been checked. Anyone who would have claimed to check you woulx probably be axed.

In addition, you probably wouldn't have been rolevlocked (although that depends on the whims of the roleblocker)

You too, Jake. Play MAFIA (along with fooling around) or don't join games with me. I do like to have fun, but I also like to play a proper game of Mafia. Thank you very much.

[Almost50]

A50's claimed role is 100% a lie.

I'll eat rope today if necessary, but

you will claim your flavor

before I do.

As of this post I am missing Xlos, Toog, Wheme, Jake & Galron. GUESS WHICH OF YOU FIVE I AM INFORMED OF THEIR FLAVOR. MAKES SENSE THE SCUM TEAM IS RELUCTANT TO CLAIM THEIR FLAVOUR.

[Almost50]

“First Derivative Test” is an action.

It’s a thing someone does. It doesn’t match everyone else’s flavor.

It may have been too long since I last actually practiced calculus, but isn't Second Derivative Test a "first derivative test on the first derivative"??

[Almost50]

I don't see why they both can't be town. Queue DGB. But I don't think that's what Titus's point was.

I’d rather her elaborate.

For me is the DGB+nom3 situation. I don’t see myself voting outside there short of someone scum claiming or a damn good explanation. I agree he’s suspicious but the only one elim a day makes it difficult.

What makes you say their lying about their role?

I am pretty sure they’re a neighbor. That seems an odd thing to lie about? Unless you mean lying about the informed bit which is unfalsifiable. If no one matches the flavor A50 expects then A50 just says so player X is scum and a 1v1 forms. Or if someone matches the flavor then A50 says “player X matches the flavor” or maybe not even that. There’s no way to check him. So since there’s no way to check it no way to know if he is lying and this bs about flavor shouldn’t even have started today with all the open claims.

Math.. trust me, mate. Take it on faith. I would lim between Xlos, Wheme & hake. That's my hero solve. DGB v nom is TvT. Toog is Town and so is Galron 9although neither has claimed their flavor, but I no longer want them to.)

Can I be more precise than this?? The one I'm informed of is in my solve and all 3 are refusing to claim it. Xlos is even panicking already, although I did NOT say I can guilty them. I just said I'd match their claim against what I was told.

I repeat: I am informed about one of them 3 Xlos, Wheme or Jake, and I will die on this hill.

Also (some additional "silly" pointers): First three posters were MC. nom & Wheme. I'd want Wheme lim'ed without a claim even.

[Almost50]

Like, "wait till I obv!Town" my red rear-side.

[Almost50]

If he was telling the truth, he would know the alignment of that player already based on the flavor. Unless you believe that scum flavor are going to be the names of formal mathematics operations. That wouldn't make any sense though. The fact that he doesn't know the alignment means that he hasn't totally thought through the information his role gave him, and thus it is a lie.

I am trying my best to not call you names (ex: I am

not

calling you stupid, dumb, obtuse.. or anything of the sort). Listen top you. Like, the mod would give a player what would be effectively "Player X is Scum". Is that what you're suggesting?? Or maybe "Player X is Town, but I decided to head SOUTH from LA to get to San Francisco just fir the funzies).

[Almost50]

Of this, if all this is analysis like xlos was talking about, then what distingueshes the green flavor from the red flavor?

I'd like to know that too.

All I see is that anything to do with "Derivatives" has some kind of Cop to it.

Note: They were both claimed already by the time I called for the flavour claim.

If I was to believe that the flavour is alignment indicative I'd confirm DGB as Town (as that wasn't already evident by the nom flip), confirm Wheme (that's the player I was informed of their flavour and I do have "flavour" reason to TR them now IF flavour is alignment indicative), put Titus & Italiano as "same alignment" (both are Theorems).

So, unless we think the remaining 2 scums are exactly Titus+Italiano then scum are in Xlos, Jake, Galron & Toog

[Almost50]

Xlos is like "I was wrong about why I SR'd A50, but I'm still going to vote him anyway."

[Almost50]

Like, SERIOULY.. how the FUCK is DGB still suspect? Not only did it get a guilty on nom, but the claimed flavour suggests an Investigative. Did scum get 2 Investigatives??

[Almost50]

@Titus: I

am

using Math theories. nom was "Derivatives" and had a Flavour

Cop

shot. T3 was Second "Derivative" Test and was a Modified Role

cop

. DGB is First "Derivative" Test, and claimed 1-shot Alignment

Cop

. If Flavour is indicative of ROLE (which it is from the Mod's quote I quoted yesterday) then Derivativ(s) = Cop. This should be enough for me to put DGB as an IC already.

Now I am a "Test" and so is Wheme, so I am assuming ... WAIT! Wheme isn't clear by this. He could be "Informed Scum" still. I'll let MATHBLADE decide on it. Wheme is "Root Test".

[Almost50]

There's at least one more Theorem.

I'll assume you're referring to yourself, in which case we can confirm your Toog suspicion at once: IF you are a VT, and Titus is a VT, then Toog is a GOON (Vanilla Scum). In other words, "Theorem" could mean "Vanilla" the same way "Derivative" meant "Cop".

[Almost50]

Is Toog...

• a town roleblocker
  who happened to
  block a player who claimed to be a conditional PR
  ?
  
• scum (any role or goon)
  who
  pretended
  to have blocked nom to give credence to nom's claim of having been roleblocked?

My vote goes to the former option. He did still want nom yeeted, so his claim wasn't tp try and save him. (Check Math's post above for quotes of Toog showing his stance on You/Nom)

[Almost50]

@DGB: OK.. my memory is quite rusty nowadays. I just saw the quotes and thought that was what he wanted.

[Almost50]

@DGB: OK.. my memory is quite rusty nowadays. I just saw the quotes and thought that was what he wanted.

Great, can you give an update on your read of Toogeloo?

Why an "update" when I said this today:

then scum are in Xlos, Jake, Galron & Toog

I mean, sure.. I turned around on my Wheme read too, and I'm starting to feel Math could be scum too (I buy his monovision on me, but not on you)

[Almost50]

Are you suggesting I am bus'ing Toog?

There's no use trying to deny it now, DGB. You bused nom, are bussing Toog, and tomorrow will commit suicide. Obviously your conscience couldn't take it no more and you are going for redemption by correcting your wrongdoings before you self-terminate.

[Almost50]

Pretty much trying to figure out if yesterday Titus was town genuinely stalling for time or if Titus was scum with Xlos A50 or Toog and trying to get a wagon counter to Nom going.

I gotta crash but I kinda have a big would elim list and a super elim list
(Super elim is ToogvA50vDGB) I think a scum has to be in here due to claims and follow the cop problems
(Would elim Titus / Xlos ) << I can’t read Titus to save my life and Xlos I gut Ping town but how hard they tried to save Nom is hard to ignore

The remainder is more if I am still alive territory tbh. I don’t anticipate being alive to get to a more granular level and I gotta go to bed.

Pedit: DGB I am saying that IF Toog is scum you’re a necessary prerequisite unless Toog is some higher tier scum player (which to be fair I don’t remember/haven’t seen their scum game). It is just so weird to claim you blocked a player with a claimed guilty.

I'll give you an offer you can't refuse: Let's do Xlos, and if that doesn't flip red I'll personally see to it that both I and DGB are dead tomorrow.

[Almost50]

VOTE: A50

Let me know if you decide to wagon Xlos anytime soon. Else, I am not voting a townie, and won't be here to see you lose the game for town.

[Almost50]

VOTE: A50

Let me know if you decide to wagon Xlos anytime soon. Else, I am not voting a townie, and won't be here to see you lose the game for town.

Are.. you implying that you are not town?

No, smart one. I am saying TOOG IS TOWN.

[Almost50]

I want xios still.

If you want Xlos then VOTE XLOS. If Titus wants Xlos she should be voting Xlos. If someone votes Xlos I will join the wagon on Xlos. Just don't you all keep saying it when nobody's doing it.

[Almost50]

If A50 is town you’ve nuked his attempts to draw the night kill.

Says the one pushing for my elimination TODAY

[Almost50]

VOTE: Xlos

Last call for the Xlos train.

But if I am @E-1 and I'm online I will self-hammer, so Scum can rest-assured I am still self-voting in spirit

[Almost50]

A> Neighbor with Wheme informed of flavor claim makes no sense. It’s more likely Nom flavor checked Wheme

nom was bloody BLOCKED by Toog on N1. Can you please see a doctor for these brain farts, cuz they're starting to smell.

[Almost50]

If we assume DGB is town for the sake of argument and A50 is town for the sake of argument, then you have three people would have ways of alignment/role checks.

I dunno who the third is/was, but DGB was 1-shot and I am 1-shot by definition (I only know ONE person's flavour).

[Almost50]

Is this still why you think Toog is Town A50?

Toog is Town by play regardless.

[Almost50]

I also want to know why everyone took DGB's interpretation of my post for granted. WHO THE FUCK SAID I WAS A HIDER? Because I sure didn't, and I don't know how making sure both I and someone die simultaneously can be interpreted into a Hider claim of any sort.

[Almost50]

So there are Tests, Thoerems and Derivatives. The Derivatives are not AI. I guess there's no reason to expect that the rest of them are either. So all this flavor fishing/hunting whatever was for naught. But why would there be a flavor cop?

Because WHEME IS AN INFORMED SCUMSTER, and he was Informed of someone's FLAVOUR (Just as I was), with ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE: "flavour" is a "Role"

You need a flavour Cop to try and find that flavour so you can shoot the player with that Role.

So, unless you are ready to kill Xlos today, we can kill me, see my role is indeed Informed neighbor, suddenly get smart (not you, Math.. God forbid) and realize Wheme is Informed SCUM (which makes perfect sense and explains why he didn't claim his flavour when I asked him to), them kill him.

The question remains: Will there still be enough townies with brains above their shoulders to execute Xlos eventually? Or will you all insist on yeeting Toog because of some bizarre play theories than only Mathblade and DGB are capable of imagining?

Like, if I had the money I'd recruit them both to do a plot for a movie and be guaranteed a huge blockbuster revenue

[Almost50]

And where is the proof of this?

You not agreeing is proof enough for me. Whatever you say, whatever you believe to eb true MUST BE WRONG every bloody time we play together.

The problem is you do it deliberately when you're Scum, and inadvertently when you're Town, but the end result is always the same: Whatever you say is WRONG!

[Almost50]

I also want to know why everyone took DGB's interpretation of my post for granted. WHO THE FUCK SAID I WAS A HIDER? Because I sure didn't, and I don't know how making sure both I and someone die simultaneously can be interpreted into a Hider claim of any sort.

I did not. Your claim to me is literally ???? It has changed so much until you explain everything and to my satisfaction I see no reason for my vote to move. The most likely explanation is that you’re scum and it’s your responsibility to fix it if you’re town.

I won't be explaining anything to you anymore. I owe you nothing, mate. I probably should've yeeted you on D1 (upon your replacement) but I have this bloody weakness of "trying to be nice" to people I consider friends, and it almost always comes back to bite me in the ass.

[Almost50]

And wouldn’t you want Wheme or Xlos dead if those are your reads?

WHO AM I FUCKING VOTING?? WHO THE FUCK HAVE I BEEN CALLING SCUM ALL DAY?? ARE YOU BLOODY READINGT??

[Almost50]

How do you as informed neighbor ensure you + DGB dead? I don’t get that. And wouldn’t you want Wheme or Xlos dead if those are your reads?

And one more time what

exactly

are you informed of assuming you’re town?

Like, seriously.. even if you8're not reading .. you're stuck on a post where I said I'd make sure both I and DGB are dead

IF YOU BLOODY FLIP XLOS

AND HE FLIPS GREEN

[Almost50]

I'm done here.. Xlos + Wheme is my final solve. You guys do as you wish

[Almost50]

@Math: I am going to try to be as nice as I can be under the circumstances, and request that you

bloody kill them both

for me if you flip me first. This is MY GAME, and you're a replacement. You know I keep records of games I play from the start, and so far I am 2W-10L this year (and more to it 2W/7L as Town), It's not fair that you join my game to tunnel me and then "do as you wish" after you get me flipped too.

So, if you want my flip.. let's do it.. but you owe me the flips of Xlo & Wheme afterwards. Was that nice enough?

[Almost50]

@Math: here's another request.. In the future; please don't replace into games I am in. Let's be friends outside games, but I don['t want to play with you anymore, as I can't take this anymore without eventually snapping. Thank you.

[Almost50]

@Math: I am going to try to be as nice as I can be under the circumstances, and request that you

bloody kill them both

for me if you flip me first. This is MY GAME, and you're a replacement. You know I keep records of games I play from the start, and so far I am 2W-10L this year (and more to it 2W/7L as Town), It's not fair that you join my game to tunnel me and then "do as you wish" after you get me flipped too.

So, if you want my flip.. let's do it.. but you owe me the flips of Xlo & Wheme afterwards. Was that nice enough?

Can we compromise and flip Toog>Wheme>Xlos?

Honestly, I don't see Toog flipping Scum here at all. Put yourself in his shoes.. would you have faked to save your p, knowing your p flipping at any time would make you suspect??

Here me out: I personally would not have tried to save nom with a claim like that if I was scum with him, because I wouldn't want to be tied to him when/if he flips. I also think Toog is a better player than I am (although he doesn't talk that much so not many take notice of his skills). Toog is not the kind of player that likes to gambit either, so I'd say it fully out of his scum range to do this.

[Almost50]

Stahp

Can't we kumbaya and yeet Toogeloo?

How about we sing kumbaya and then you put my talk in proper comprehensible phrasing?

1- I am an Informed Neighbor
2- My Neighbour is WhemeStar
3- My Flavour is Ratio Test
4- Whme's Flavour is Root Test
5- Given the flips we already have it looks like Flavour is indicative of role
6- It thus follows "my neighbor" should also be Informed

Now all I want is for Wheme to tell us what he was Informed of for starters.

I trust you DGB, and I depend on you to get this simple task done. Thanks in advance

[Almost50]

I’m gonna full claim because a50 already claimed my flavor and basically my role and idc anymore

I’m root test and I’m an informed neighbor. I know A50’s flavor.

I assume his role is basically the same and that he knows my flavor

A50 is ratio test

OK.. now you question to me in the hood looks even more silly. Why did I out your flavour and Role? The real question is why did you keep quiet for this long? Why did you wait until I claimed my own flavour to claim that that is what you're informed of? Why didn't you claim your falvour on D2 when your role is actually as useless as mine? Why didn't you mention any of this even in the hood before??

Forgive me for asking this: Do you realize how easy it is for you to fake the "information" you were given now that everything has been claimed already by me?

Again, sorry if I'm misreading you but I really can't see you as a Town player here.

FTR; the hood has still not gone into page 2. We don't talk in there, so -aside from Wheme asking me to vote Flea with him- what you see in this thread is all that Wheme has actually contributed. Take that as you will.

[Almost50]

@A50, I request that you not threaten to do things to appease others.

Acknowledged.

Also, I am just an INFORMED NEIGHBOUR. I am not a Bomb (or anything else, aside from Informed Neighbour). But it was a good trip.

[Almost50]

No. I already outed his f;avour though, and I speculated his Role too, so he didn't exactly give us anything new. he basically confirmed everything I said before he did.

[Almost50]

Why are you lying about your role when you know I already know about your role?

Do you? What is my role? And what did I say it was (that you considered to be a lie). Please be precise.

[Almost50]

@Mathblade: Remember this game? Assuming you're town here; can you please tell me how you play/logic/thought process evolved from back then till now?? because I honestly don't see much difference. "I am right because I'm right, and the things that

are actually true

don't make sense".

I rest my case

[Almost50]

FTR, Math wasn't even playing under his main there. It's just that I remembered how it went and when i tried to search my games for Mathblade I couldn't find it, so I thought if Drealmers and Aris (Aris as the mod). I didn't even remember Titus was in it until I found it.

[Almost50]

If you're going to randomly spout alts for no apparent reason I was Commander Shepard that game. At least leave enough context so people can figure it out.

*Rechecks*
*Double-rechecks*

Where did I say I was talking to "others"?? I clearly was talking to MATHBLADE (see the @??). Unless @Math has become some kind of fad to say "I want everybody's attention, please"

[Almost50]

3 more votes on Xlos is what we need, folks

[Almost50]

3 more votes on Xlos is what we need, folks

Why are you townreading Toog so hard?

Oh, did I not mention I was Informed Toog is Town.

I also got a clear on him twice. I used both my Alignment Cop shots on him. BOTH of them. (and in one go. I might add)

Oh, and let's not forget I'm a Weak Hider, and I also hid behind Toog two nights in a row.

(Let me know if you want me to fake Disloyal FV too)

[Almost50]

I can't explain it precisely into words, but I've played Toog numerous times before and I've modded him at least twice so I kinda know how he plays. I do not recall having seen his scum game (maybe one of the earliest games, but I'm not sure) but I can confirm this is how he plays Town.

I think I've already explained it's stupid to claim you RB'd your p to give them an out, and Toog is by no means stupid. He's very rational and not the kind that gambits in that way.

[Almost50]

However, I am still adamant you asking people to claim what "branch of math" they were and then pushing me for the flavour claim is so scummy it smells like dead fish. Wheme's behaviour around it all 9and even after all has been said and done) is also pretty sus. I can't even think of a reason why he starts talking to me in the hood AFTER everything has already been exposed.

[Almost50]

@Math: Are you really missing this post?

Day 1 has a minimum deadline of three (3) days.

I'd also like to point out that you literally can't hammer me

@Toog: The Role Cop would have been useless at deciding alignments off of their results alone. Like, "Informed Neighbour" could have gone both ways, and so could have Roleblocker and even JOAT. It would have been only if the Rolecop lived until massclaim (or if we wagoned someone they checked and pushed them to claim) that they could have got a guilty at all.

[Almost50]

@A50, how confident is your push on Xlos, and what's your input in a possible DGB lim?

Frankly, I don't know why DGB would bus nom in that situation. I don't see Scum!DGB here at all.

As for Xlos, I am confident but it's not like I have access to the mod PT. It's between him, Wheme, Jake & Mathblade (roughly in that order)

[Almost50]

This isnt really working. Everyone is too committed to their reads. Ill offer a trade: today I’ll vote Toog if both DGB and Titus vote A50 tomorrow

HOWEVER; if this isn't Scum then it's the worst Town player ever! This is literally lining up 2 mislims, and the fact he's talking to Titus/DGB confirms they are both Town if/when Xlos flips red.

[Almost50]

I mean, scum don't need to convince their scum buddy to vote with them in public. That's what the Scum PT is for.

[Almost50]

You flip me me today and A50 tomorrow, town loses this game. 10%

This typo made me laugh out loud

I'll be sad if I'm wrong about A50, but I'm willing to take the risk here. We might even get a free point for listening to DGB today VOTE: Toogeloo

@EVERYONE:

Stop being dumb. This is SCUM trying to evade the axe by killing a townie and lining up another mislim. I'll self-vote tomorrow if we flip Xlos today and he flips Town.

[Almost50]

Idk should I just hammer

Not if you're Town. Vote Xlos if you are.

[Almost50]

BOTH SCUM are in Xlos/Math/Wheme. I PROMISE.

[Almost50]

VOTE: A50
HURT: WhemeStar

Titus?? Are you SCUM?? OMG! If so.. WELL PLAYED.

[Almost50]

VOTE: A50

Adios idiots! GOOD LUCK FINDING THE SCUM PAIR

[Almost50]

And I'm not giving you my final solve either, You don't deserve it. period