Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will catch up later.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Wayward Son

Not a fan of Kansas.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will catch up later.

... theres nothing to catch up wit... u act like u just replaced in lol

I hadn’t read anything, I didn’t want to get prodded.

The conclusion is my favourite part of the OP. I get it if you’re a newbie but from an SE, it’s incredibly funny.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I never bother to read the OP.

You probably should, whether it matters in newbie games or not, I’m unsure.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE GrandpaMo

Let's make a circle with everyone

pointing their guns

voting a unique member! Though that's probably not helpful for town. Also, what happens if we all vote a unique person and it stays that way at the end of the day phase? (I mean, one vote on everyone) Would the lynch be randomised?

Only if no elim isn’t an option. But why would you even want that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

pog e-1 VOTE: GrandpaMo

If you’re town here, you should never self-vote.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Official Vote Count 1.02

Boeing 787

---

Elimination

GrandpaMo

(3): LunarRest, Psyche, T3

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ClarkBar

Psyche

(1): BlurryX

Wayward Son

(1): Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting

(3): Wayward Son, brookewyrm, GrandpaMo

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Clarkbar

[Nancy Drew 39]

Psyche’s probably town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It's as if Psyche voted him so that Grandpa can confirm him or suggest that he is town because Psyche wanted to get a wagon going (if I haven't misunderstood). It looks like they were trying to distance each other, as if they aren't mafia together early but now that the wagon is going decently strong (3 votes). And the whole post saying that he's nervous and asking if he should unvote feels weird too. Why is Psyche pretending or atleast appears to pretend like he doesn't know what to do? If he thinks the wagon is rash why not just unvote? Why ask others?

Hey! You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you aren't stupid.

And what if Mo’s town? You don’t even know the flip yet but you’re assuming teams?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: GrandpaMo

i agree wagons are better

LOL thats actually funny -- i might just townread u off this

That’s an NAI post, Psyche’s I mean, so I don’t see how you read that as AI?

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE: GrandpaMo

ok i should probably stop meming xD

Mo, why aren’t you taking this more seriously?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE GrandpaMo

Let's make a circle with everyone

pointing their guns

voting a unique member! Though that's probably not helpful for town. Also, what happens if we all vote a unique person and it stays that way at the end of the day phase? (I mean, one vote on everyone) Would the lynch be randomised?

and the paranoia of dumbtells have started.....

Uh I don’t know what that means. What is a dumbtell?

A dumbtell suggests that you are more likely uninformed than not if true. In one of my early mafia games, I didn’t understand what “janitor” meant and people thought I was fake dumbtelling.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: GrandpaMo

i agree wagons are better

LOL thats actually funny -- i might just townread u off this

First Psyche votes Mo and then Mo says that he might townread Psyche off this. And then Psyche says that he's nervous and asks if he should just unvote after it looked like the wagon was going strong on Mo.

It's as if Psyche voted him so that Grandpa can confirm him or suggest that he is town because Psyche wanted to get a wagon going (if I haven't misunderstood). It looks like they were trying to distance each other, as if they aren't mafia together early but now that the wagon is going decently strong (3 votes). And the whole post saying that he's nervous and asking if he should unvote feels weird too. Why is Psyche pretending or atleast appears to pretend like he doesn't know what to do? If he thinks the wagon is rash why not just unvote? Why ask others?

Lunar might be town for this. Newb scum isn’t generally very good at faking a townie thought process.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Role PMs have been sent. The game will begin in (expired on 2021-06-26 21:47:57) or when 7/9 players have confirmed. Confirmed: 9/9

ClarkBar has until (expired on 2021-06-26 21:47:57) to confirm before I look for a replacement.

@mod, Wayward Son hasn’t posted are you going to prod or replace?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t know what to make of Mo here. In the game we played together, he was actually upset by scumreads on him. Here, he acts like he doesn’t really care. He’s the lead wagon at E-1 and he seems to be totally fine with it. Why isn’t he even trying to put up more of a fight?

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE: GrandpaMo

ok i should probably stop meming xD

Mo, why aren’t you taking this more seriously?

because the sequence of events are funny

i meme to t3 and aggress lunar

then psyche makes a funny post which leads them to vote me

then im like shit "let me put myself to e-1 since everyone had already voted me, and instantly unvote"

then clark puts me at e-1 or sum shit then yea

i love playing wit t3 -- gosh, i know this is so random but i feel like t3 is the msot limmable person in MS and i am the only one who knows their allignment and they know mines.

ik that was so random, but i was just like rereading that game and enjoyed a few posts t3 has said and done lol

If jesters were allowed in Newbies, you’d be a natural. You’re probably going to be limmed here and irrespective of your alignment, you should be trying to something to at least try to get votes off of you. If you weren’t exactly at E-1, maybe I could see the humour in that but you are basically acting like you’re perfectly fine with getting limmed and you most definitely weren’t in the game we played together.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Do we want him to claim?

I’d like him to act like he’s actually playing in a mafia game at minimum, rather than treating it like a joke.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i love playing wit t3 -- gosh, i know this is so random but i feel like t3 is the msot limmable person in MS and

i am the only one who knows their allignment and they know mines

.

What do you mean by this?

meaning i know how they how play as scum

and how they play as town

so i can tell when they are town and scum while others cannot making him a very liable scumpush for mafia

So, are they town or scum here?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mo, who is scum here? Can you possibly give us a readslist?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mo, who is scum here? Can you possibly give us a readslist?

It's literally fucking page 5 LOL

What is going on this game...

Am I missing something that no one has told me about?


Like MAYBE I would have Psyche as implied town. And maybe T3 as well. (which I already explained)

But other than why ask for a readlist this damn early LOL.

I was trying to get you to do something to demonstrate that your actually taking the wagon on you seriously. Because if you were to continue to treat the wagon on you like a meme, how are we supposed to be able to seriously parse you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game.

What game is this? When I look at your topics and Grandpa's topics there are no other common games besides this one.

It was under an alt account which I’d prefer not to out. I’m still leery of his wagon building up that fast. Why would my post - saying att, he hadn’t played too differently and was miselimed, make you want to put him at E -1?

I still don’t know what to make of the whole meme thing but if he’s actually scum here, then his buddy is either choosing to let him hang or straight up bussing.

Mo’s point about being so fast being run up to E - 1, is a good one, because where is the resistance?

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

you also had said psyche was leaning town for you. idk if lunar was voting me.

but if they were, then t3 is just left. does that mean you imply t3 is the scum on my wagon?

i also agree as i said previously. i do think there is probable scum on my wagon. i just dont know who rn

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk. We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet. Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

you also had said psyche was leaning town for you. idk if lunar was voting me.

but if they were, then t3 is just left. does that mean you imply t3 is the scum on my wagon?

i also agree as i said previously. i do think there is probable scum on my wagon. i just dont know who rn

also @clark this should answer the question -- ik its a weak response, i will give more detailed analysis tmr regarding my wagon - and possible scum. since those were like lazy written tired laid back posts

You’re posting is sounding more like that game we played now, I’m leaning to you being likely miselimbait. However, it’s reckless to put anyone higher than E-2, which is why I miselimed bugspray.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i know these games don't have ICs anymore and it's a bit patronizing for me to type it this way but i'd like to see fewer people sitting on not voting
if every player just sits on the sidelines until someone makes some clear scumslip this could be as far as we get contentwise
to do the bare minimum to keep the game flowing, just figure out your best hunch for who's scum, try to articulate as clear a reason why as you can, and lay down a vote to show you mean it
it's a wagon not a marriage after all (until someone hammers)

We have 6 days and I only vote when I feel confident about it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

imo you should also make an effort to clearly justify the vote with some reasoning
do whatever though i'm not your dad

If you’re pushing people to vote regardless if they actually feel confident about it or not, you can’t expect great reasoning.

[Nancy Drew 39]

imo you should also make an effort to clearly justify the vote with some reasoning
do whatever though i'm not your dad

If you’re pushing people to vote regardless if they actually feel confident about it or not, you can’t expect great reasoning.

This is why pushing people to vote is counter-intuitive. If Clark had voted without your pushing him to do so, I could actually reasonably evaluate that vote but because he did it only because of your urging, I really can’t. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

What are the chances that T3 is scum with how he did seem "gleeful" (as someone has said already) at the chance of GrandpaMo getting eliminated. If you look at his ISO he's pretty convinced that Psyche is town and that GrandpaMo is scum and was even pushing hard with #118, #120. But I'm thinking he could just be the type of person who comes to hold strong beliefs so quickly (I mean, atleast in terms of people's alignment in Mafia Games). But I wonder if T3 thought that he could pounce on someone who he thought wouldn't be defending himself well and so pounced on GrandpaMo, and this whole "I hold strong beliefs so early" thing is just an act to cover the thing that he's pushing an elimation wagon on a town as a scum? I don't really know how T3 plays usually though.

Both have a scummy playstyle, so it’s really hard to tell but with the wagon on Mo reaching E-1 as fast as it did, I lean miselimbait more likely than not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i know these games don't have ICs anymore and it's a bit patronizing for me to type it this way but i'd like to see fewer people sitting on not voting
if every player just sits on the sidelines until someone makes some clear scumslip this could be as far as we get contentwise
to do the bare minimum to keep the game flowing, just figure out your best hunch for who's scum, try to articulate as clear a reason why as you can, and lay down a vote to show you mean it
it's a wagon not a marriage after all (until someone hammers)

We have 6 days and I only vote when I feel confident about it.

I think that's bad strategy! It makes both you harder to read and the game less dynamic overall!

imo you should also make an effort to clearly justify the vote with some reasoning
do whatever though i'm not your dad

If you’re pushing people to vote regardless if they actually feel confident about it or not, you can’t expect great reasoning.

You're the one saying "great" here. My justification for my GMO vote wasn't toptier reasoning. But it was good for the game!

If it works for you awesome, it doesn’t work for me. I will hopefully have some idea closer to deadline.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Psyche hardpushing the whole voting thing makes me lean town on him, even if I don’t necessary agree with it. He sounds sincere in his desire to solve.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Drew 39

This ISO started to ping me early on. 31 post at time of writing, and not sure what a fairly signifcant portion of them do. We have a an RVS vote on my slot followed by 5 posts that seem to offer nothing but apparently try and seem 'helpful'. There are some other things I find odd, such as the series of posts 74-76. A naked vote, followed by a naked townread, followed by the barest justification for said vote which amounts to "I didn't like this post" without explaning why. I don't see why the vote and the justification couldn't have been one post, apart from that it does serve to bump up the post count, and I don't follow the progression. It's almost as if she is reading the thread as she goes, the vote has gone in, she's saw something she could justify a TR on Psyche if nesacary and thought it important to get that in the thread, and then found something to justify the vote, or remembered afterwards they probably want something to justify the vote there if they don't want to get scumread, even if it is isn't actually a justification on closer look.

Admittedly, this could be a matter of play/post style, and I don't really want to go ahead and call it AI until I've had a chance to check through some of her other games. Speaking of meta...

It was under an alt account which I’d prefer not to out.

This rubs me up the wrong way, too. I get why you would want to play alt accounts. I get why, to have full value out of playing under an alt, it's best not to be open about them; but to try and bring knowledge from those alt games into this one without reciprocating seems off to me - like, you are simulatanously acknolewldging the power and usefulness of a meta read and apply it to this game whilst trying to deny the use of the same tool against yourself; and I don't see why you would do that if you were town, and are playing your usual town game here. I can see the justification for it if you are scum, and you are worried some meta might catch you out in this game.

In any case, since the rules of this game explicitly say "play to win this game, not some future one" I think it's fair game to point out I am 99% confident this is the game we are talking about, and equally confident about the identity of the account in that game to which Nancy refers. I am sorry if the digging I've done on this one devalues your investment in that account, but like I said, I consider it fair game in that I think how you've approached the issue might well be alignment indicative in this game, and I think since then you've basically outted it yourself with the reference to bugspray in 147.

I am also a little unhappy with this reference:

We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

(SNIP)

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet.

I am aware the WS slot is the slot I've replaced into, and her RVS vote is on my slot, but there is most certainly TWO slots to which the above applies, but only one gets a mention. What about the brookewyrm slot? Is there a reason Nancy fails to draw attention to that one, despite it being natural to refer to having 2 AFK slots at the time?

While none of it is particulary compelling in isolation, I think I have enough here in the 3 combined to satifisfy myself a

scumlean

is the correct read for this slot at this point

I have to leave now for a bit, and I realise this is a little bit of an inoppotune time given I haven't finished with all my reads, but I've skipped to Nancy because I think this is where my vote is best placed for the moment; so

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

I was literally asked by both Mo and Clark how I could gave possibly misilimmed Mo because Clark could find no games.

So this take sounds either dishonest or you have no been reading. You’re trying to make it sound like I made a big deal about this rather than to try to solve Mo.

I’m also going to read the *SNIPPED* post too to determine if you also misrepped that.

Yeah, that’s right, please do a metadive on me and if you still double down after that, I probably have a pretty good idea where my vote will go.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

you also had said psyche was leaning town for you. idk if lunar was voting me.

but if they were, then t3 is just left. does that mean you imply t3 is the scum on my wagon?

i also agree as i said previously. i do think there is probable scum on my wagon. i just dont know who rn

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk. We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet. Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

@VA89 how did you also so blatantly misrep that as well? If you weren’t a newbie, I promise I’d already be voting you for the two obviously untrue misreps.

However, you’re wanting to metadive me actually looks townie so hopefully you don’t butcher that as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So, your response is to quote the entire wall, but to focus on a small part of it and say "nah, you are wrong, and scummy for even bringing it up"?, followed by "hah, you misrepped this too" with no explanation as to how? Noted.

By the way, I saw this "go on, I dare you to go there and see where my vote goes" type attack on a newbie slot by an SE last game. I correctly deduced it was coming from scum in that game too.

I still intend to do that dive, but you can consider this my double down right here, right now.

Feel free to vote my slot a second time.

Well, if you’re town here, then you’re wrong this game and I will stand by it if I honestly think you’re deliberately not reading. Keep pushing me though. Still waiting for you to respond to my misrep accusations which y actually reading my posts can plainly see, you very obviously mistead.

So, when is your meta dive on me happening or was it just for show?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game.

What game is this? When I look at your topics and Grandpa's topics there are no other common games besides this one.

It was under an alt account which I’d prefer not to out. I’m still leery of his wagon building up that fast. Why would my post - saying att, he hadn’t played too differently and was miselimed, make you want to put him at E -1?

I still don’t know what to make of the whole meme thing but if he’s actually scum here, then his buddy is either choosing to let him hang or straight up bussing.

Mo’s point about being so fast being run up to E - 1, is a good one, because where is the resistance?

And quote the entire dam post. Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

you also had said psyche was leaning town for you. idk if lunar was voting me.

but if they were, then t3 is just left. does that mean you imply t3 is the scum on my wagon?

i also agree as i said previously. i do think there is probable scum on my wagon. i just dont know who rn

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk. We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet. Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

@Val89, I have no intention of letting you misread me off of cheery picked part of my posts. Quote the entire thing. so I can better see what your true intentions are.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Go on, I'll bite. Where in 194 is the accusation I need to respond to?

For that matter, what specific part of the bit I snipped was relevant to my point that there was very clearly 2 AFK slots and you were only mentioning the existence of one of them?

I snipped it because it very clearly has no relevance to my point, and to include it would only confuse the issue. I'm so very glad you've decided to attempt this "baffle the newbies with buzzwords and bullshit" defense though, because I think you are about to find yourself in a bit of a bind explaining your way out of it now.

So, when is your meta dive on me happening or was it just for show?

You want that rushed, do you? Seems scummy as well, to be honest.

Because if it’s sincere, then it points to you being town more likely than not. I have an intense distrust for snipped posts, especially when I know my words have been either taken out of context or misinterpreted.

So, are you genuinely attempting to sort me, or is everything you say going to be “everything Nancy posts confirms she’s scum here”?

Because you don’t know anything about how to correctly read me in that case.

I would seriously like to know why insisting my posts be interpreted in full and pushing you to do that makes me scum?

See ooh, you’re saying things that make me think you’re actually trying to read me but then it also reads like you’re more interested in confibiasing me. I particularly am bothered by your “doubling down” on me when you claim not to have read any other players.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Go on, I'll bite. Where in 194 is the accusation I need to respond to?

For that matter, what specific part of the bit I snipped was relevant to my point that there was very clearly 2 AFK slots and you were only mentioning the existence of one of them?

I snipped it because it very clearly has no relevance to my point, and to include it would only confuse the issue. I'm so very glad you've decided to attempt this "baffle the newbies with buzzwords and bullshit" defense though, because I think you are about to find yourself in a bit of a bind explaining your way out of it now.

So, when is your meta dive on me happening or was it just for show?

You want that rushed, do you? Seems scummy as well, to be honest.

What “buzzwords” are you referring to? This is my first Newbie, so I just talk here like I do in every game I’m in. You’re finding scummy intent in absolutely everything I post, it’s almost funny and not just because you’re wrong but because you’re making so many unsubstantiated assumptions about what I’ve been posting.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Right then. First off, area tags are a new one to me; and look like they might be as useful as when someone pointed out I could use "post" tags instead of manually linking the URL, so cheers for that one!

GrandpaMo

I've just finished playing my first game with GrandpaMo. For context, he was a VT who was mislimmed D2. In that game I initially read him as town, and was then later absolutely convinced he must have been scum based on his reaction to coming under E-1 pressure. I mention this because I think that experiance may well have informed some of his behaviour in this game; particulary the self-voting and the sort of "I don't give a f*ck" kind of attitude we saw early on.

Self-voting, and whether or not it was a pro-town behaviour, came up in that previous game. D1 ended in a sort of 1v1 "me-or-him" style duel that ended up being Town v Town, and the D1 lim ended up self-hammering, whilst admonishing Grandpa for not doing the same. I can see a world in which a Grandpa of either alignment, just coming out of that game, might reflexively decide to splash a self-vote in there; either as a "look, I'm actually town this game" signal, or as an attempt to pick up some superficial towncred. As it happens, I disgree that the self-vote or lack thereof was alignment indicative anyhow, but it did come up last game and I can see why Grandpa might have decided to do it here.

In addition, once that other player flipped VT the thread wasn't locked for a good while, and Grandpa came under some significant pressure. His reaction (which I think can be fairly summarised as mad panic and spaffing random reads up the wall with weak justification, at clear odds to what he had been saying up to then) got him widley scumread and ultimately mislimmed, and I can imagine he was in no rush to repeat that experiance. I should point out that until this morning that game was ongoing as noted in 128, but that justification does appear to tally with what Grandpa himself said on the issue when you read between the lines.

Turning to that 128 more widely; I have to say that when I skimmed through the game the first time last night, I really thought I was reading someone elses post - I had to go back up to check the author. In fact, it stands out so far in juxaposition with posts like 93 and 113, which I consider to be stereotypically Grandpa, and then an almost immediate laspe back into it in 169 that I've flip-flopped back and forth this morning about whether I actually consider this scum-inidcative in that he must have had some sort of coaching from a scum partner who was panicing they were about to lose half the scum team by page 6. Rereading several times, I've decided that there is enough of the 'essense' of Grandpa in it, however, and the actual logic tallies with what I know about him to come to conclusion that in fact, that isn't likley the case, and I agree entirely with Clark's 138 on the matter. Bravo, Grandpa. Let's hope that continues.

In conclusion then, I come to essentially the same conclusion as I did initially in my previous game. On more than a few occasions, Grandpa can be a tricky read, but I think we are looking at a Town!Grandpa trying his best to learn the lessons of his previous games. In that regard, I consider 135 and 144 to be entirely genuine; and lead me to assign Grandpa a

townread

here.

T3

T3 was the other player with whom I've played previously. As before, they strike me as someone who keeps their cards close to the chest and doesn't offer a lot of content. I agree with the assesment that what content we do have seems almost entirely focused on Grandpa, and they do read decidedly pleased about having something with Grandpa to lock on to. Prior to 164, I would have to read T3 as coming off scummy. He should have enough experiance with Grandpa to know he's a tricky read, and finding something to press on as early as 41 seems a little oppotunistic but I can see why a Town!T3 might use it as an opening to pile on a bit of presure. He has, however, just finished up a game where Grandpa was mislimmed for his reaction to pressure and he should also know that Grandpa is a bit of a easy target for scum because of his playstyle; so I was starting to get scumvibes from T3.

So basically Grandpasaid "I know his alignment and he knows mine" The he was referring to me.. and I was voting him. I'm voting him, and he's nodding along saying, yes, you know my alignment.

This, though, changes everything for me. As has been alluded to by both players already, T3 and Grandpa have some history. A pertinent point in that history is that T3 has played a game as town with a scum!Grandpa where T3 thinks they caught Grandpa 'perspective slipping'. The logic makes sense, and does seem to be a perfect example of what I think T3 means when he says 'perspective slipping'. To paraphrase, T3 is saying he threw some shade, and a vote, at Grandpa; and Grandpa's response was "T3 knows my alignment"; indicating Grandpa was indeed scum. The flaw, as I see it, is that I don't read 93 as Grandpa saying "T3 knows my alignment this game" but rather "We both have similar playstyles in that we can be fairly easy mislim targets for scum, but we generally have a better feel for deducing each others true alignment over some randoms that haven't played with us before".

I also think that's what...

so i can tell when they are town and scum while others cannot making him a very liable scumpush for mafia

..is trying to say more explicitly, although it's still clumsy.

My conclusion is that, although he is wrong, T3 seems as pleased with himself as he does because

he is

rather pleased with himself. He does actually think, with some justification from a T3 prespective, that he's solved half this game after 5 pages, and is going to end up being the hero of the town. That screams town to me, and is enough for me to give him a

townread

here, too.

Pedit: It's taken me a fair bit of time to type this up, and I can see there is some activity on the thread from Nancy while previewing, so I'm going to post these two reads to the thread now and come back to the others once I've seen if any of the new posts give me anything additional to go on whilst rumminating on the others.

Actually I kind’ve like this. I’m going to lean wrong town for now but if he continues to misrep my posts, that will change.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have an intense distrust for snipped posts, especially when I know my words have been either taken out of context or misinterpreted.

Then show us how. I'm waiting. You've said several times its very clear that's what I am doing, that it should be obvious I'm running some sort of angle when you see the full post (and by implicition, there is something in the bit I omitted that renders my point moot).

If it's a clear as that, go ahead and quote what in the bit I snipped has any relevance one way or another on the point I made. It should be easy for you.

You can't, because you know I it is irrelevant, and I cut it for that exact reason. The fact you can only resort to screaming "Here's the full post! He misrepresented me!" without indicating how, despite prompting, is telling.

I'm willing to concede the issue if you can in fact now point to the misrepresentation in the snipped part, but we are all reading the same posts here, and I think it's obvious you can't, because no misrepresentation is in evidence.

I think it’s possible you actually believe this but you’re still wrong. I explained the alt post, yet you have not commented on it nor the other post of mine. I need you to parse my posts in full or else we’re just going to continue to go round in circles.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy Drew 39

This ISO started to ping me early on. 31 post at time of writing, and not sure what a fairly signifcant portion of them do. We have a an RVS vote on my slot followed by 5 posts that seem to offer nothing but apparently try and seem 'helpful'. There are some other things I find odd, such as the series of posts 74-76. A naked vote, followed by a naked townread, followed by the barest justification for said vote which amounts to "I didn't like this post" without explaning why. I don't see why the vote and the justification couldn't have been one post, apart from that it does serve to bump up the post count, and I don't follow the progression. It's almost as if she is reading the thread as she goes, the vote has gone in, she's saw something she could justify a TR on Psyche if nesacary and thought it important to get that in the thread, and then found something to justify the vote, or remembered afterwards they probably want something to justify the vote there if they don't want to get scumread, even if it is isn't actually a justification on closer look.

Admittedly, this could be a matter of play/post style, and I don't really want to go ahead and call it AI until I've had a chance to check through some of her other games. Speaking of meta...

It was under an alt account which I’d prefer not to out.

This rubs me up the wrong way, too. I get why you would want to play alt accounts. I get why, to have full value out of playing under an alt, it's best not to be open about them; but to try and bring knowledge from those alt games into this one without reciprocating seems off to me - like, you are simulatanously acknolewldging the power and usefulness of a meta read and apply it to this game whilst trying to deny the use of the same tool against yourself; and I don't see why you would do that if you were town, and are playing your usual town game here. I can see the justification for it if you are scum, and you are worried some meta might catch you out in this game.

In any case, since the rules of this game explicitly say "play to win this game, not some future one" I think it's fair game to point out I am 99% confident this is the game we are talking about, and equally confident about the identity of the account in that game to which Nancy refers. I am sorry if the digging I've done on this one devalues your investment in that account, but like I said, I consider it fair game in that I think how you've approached the issue might well be alignment indicative in this game, and I think since then you've basically outted it yourself with the reference to bugspray in 147.

I am also a little unhappy with this reference:

We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

(SNIP)

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet.

I am aware the WS slot is the slot I've replaced into, and her RVS vote is on my slot, but there is most certainly TWO slots to which the above applies, but only one gets a mention. What about the brookewyrm slot? Is there a reason Nancy fails to draw attention to that one, despite it being natural to refer to having 2 AFK slots at the time?

While none of it is particulary compelling in isolation, I think I have enough here in the 3 combined to satifisfy myself a

scumlean

is the correct read for this slot at this point

I have to leave now for a bit, and I realise this is a little bit of an inoppotune time given I haven't finished with all my reads, but I've skipped to Nancy because I think this is where my vote is best placed for the moment; so

VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

I was literally asked by both Mo and Clark how I could gave possibly misilimmed Mo because Clark could find no games.

So this take sounds either dishonest or you have no been reading. You’re trying to make it sound like I made a big deal about this rather than to try to solve Mo.

I’m also going to read the *SNIPPED* post too to determine if you also misrepped that.

Yeah, that’s right, please do a metadive on me and if you still double down after that, I probably have a pretty good idea where my vote will go.

I already explained the alt thing and why that was a bad take.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

you also had said psyche was leaning town for you. idk if lunar was voting me.

but if they were, then t3 is just left. does that mean you imply t3 is the scum on my wagon?

i also agree as i said previously. i do think there is probable scum on my wagon. i just dont know who rn

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk. We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet. Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

I still don’t understand why you sr this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Right, I'll try and spell this out as slowly and clearly as I can.

Here is the point I made in my read.

there is most certainly TWO slots to which the above applies, but only one gets a mention. What about the brookewyrm slot? Is there a reason Nancy fails to draw attention to that one, despite it being natural to refer to having 2 AFK slots at the time?

Here is the post of yours to which I refer in full:

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk. We still have a confirmed slot that hasn’t yet posted.

Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.

I think until we hear from WS, I don’t want to assume more than one yet. Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

I've explained above, but here, in some more detail, is why I scumread it. At the time of the post, there were clearly 2 AFK slots, WS (now me) and brookewyrm. You are correct that there was one confirmed slot that hadn't posted, that's a true statment; but there were in fact TWO that hadn't posted. You then say "I think until we hear from WS, I don't want to assume more than one

[scum on Grandpa's wagon]

yet.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only way to read your post is "I don't want to say how many or who the scum on Grandpa's wagon could be, because there is at least one confirmed slot we haven't heard from. Until we hear from Wayward son, I reserve the right to read them as scum". Frankly, its a valid stance to take - you don't want to be drawn into making a guess as to how many scum are on Grandpa's wagon when there are 2 slots you litterally have no way of reading because they haven't posted. If you post instead read "I think until we hear from WS

or brookewyrm

, I don't want to assume more than one" I would have taken no issue with.

My point is that you say "We still have

a

confirmed slot that hasn't yet posted" (important note: not "two confirmed slots") and later, you name one of the two slots to which that applies - ""I think until we hear from WS" (important note: not "WS or brookewyrm").

The rest of the post I didn't consider relevant to that point. For the avoidence of doubt, here is everything you said that I snipped from that quote:

I liked that he expressed concern at your wagon being at E-1 but then he didn’t unvote, so idk.
Well, I liked Clark unvoting you and I thought that Lunar seemed to believe what he was saying. According to what you’ve been alleging, T3 is supposed to be good at reading you, so if you’re town, then that probably doesn’t look great for him.
Has T3 ever wrongly sr you before?

Your defense, rolled up into an accusation against me, is that I deliberately misrepresented what you said by ommiting those statements above. At this point, you've repeated that charge several times. My challenge to you has been to identify which part of the omission is the misrepresentation. You've failed to do so, despite trying to imply that you have, and that to me - sorry to say - is scummy AF, and I make no apologies for pointing it out. I will continue to do so until you identify

how

I've misrepresented you instead of simplying screaming that

I have

and hope that's sufficent. It isn't.

I meant that without all of the slots posting, we don’t have the whole picture. I have to say that this interpretation does seem a bit over reactive however. So, that’s pinging me a bit.

No I explained and quoted the alt thing twice now, why are you ignoring that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I already explained the alt thing and why that was a bad take.

Except that I disagree that you have. You've certainly spammed the thread with a whole bunch of nothing, but I don't see anything that approaches an explanation on the 'alt thing' or why it's a bad take. If I am wrong, and I've missed something, please identify where.

The only thing that seems to come anywhere close to address it is in the 193; where you say

I was literally asked by both Mo and Clark how I could gave possibly misilimmed Mo because Clark could find no games.

So this take sounds either dishonest or you have no been reading. You’re trying to make it sound like I made a big deal about this rather than to try to solve Mo.

That to me appears on the surface to be the only attempt you've made to address the issue, and frankly, it does nothing of the sort. Yeah, you were literally asked by Mo and Clark how you could have mislimmed Mo, but you answer was "it was a game I played on an alt account, and I'm not telling you which". It was THAT response with which I take issue; and I've not yet seen you engage with the reasons I found that response to be scummy. I laid them out here:

I get why you would want to play alt accounts. I get why, to have full value out of playing under an alt, it's best not to be open about them; but to try and bring knowledge from those alt games into this one without reciprocating seems off to me - like, you are simulatanously acknolewldging the power and usefulness of a meta read and apply it to this game whilst trying to deny the use of the same tool against yourself; and I don't see why you would do that if you were town, and are playing your usual town game here. I can see the justification for it if you are scum, and you are worried some meta might catch you out in this game.

Do you want to take the oppotunity to address why you think that's a bad take now, or do you still think screaming "misrepresentation" will be sufficent to satisfy me if you do it enough times?

My not wanting to out my alt is scummy to you why?

VOTE: Val89

I’m really getting irritated with your attitude. Do better.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Val89, I’m dislike the superior and contemptuous tone you’re taking with me. There is absolutely no need for that. I don’t even have a read on you but I feel like you’re trying to bully and intimidate me with your tone and phrasing and I’m not engaging with it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No I explained and quoted the alt thing twice now, why are you ignoring that?

No, you haven't. I don't know who you think you are fooling with this performance, but it certainly isn't me.

Let's have a post number, shall we? Just give me the number of just

one

of the posts you explain the alt thing.

Believe me, there is exactly zero chance of me ignoring the fact you haven't addressed the issue - I'll continue pointing out until you finally do address it, or one of us is eliminated.

I have and you can continue to deny that all you like. I don’t feel like you’re actually trying to sort me. But I’m just pissed off at the way you continue to bully me, so if you’re town doing that, it’s on you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ah wow these posts have a lot of words

I don’t like the way he’s talking to me but I’ll be damned if I just continue to allow him or anyone to continue to browbeat me like that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fair enough. It likley that if I were scum, I might be tempted to run down the "you are bullying me, you big bully" route if I had no actual response to the points made, so I don't take it personally.

I will ignore you for the rest of the game if you don’t knock it off.

Start being respectful or this will be my last post to you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, I’m not ignoring you because you’re wrongly sr me, I’m ignoring you because I don’t trust myself not to respond in a toxic manner. The bad sr I can handle, the intimidation and the browbeating, I will not engage.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Regarding the alt thing. I was annoyed that Nancy used a past experience with Grandpa to defend/justify the gameplay style they were using that got them to E-1 fairly quickly but then decided to not disclose the game in question. I wanted to skim that game for similarities to this one to get a better read on if what Nancy was saying was true and informed this game and Grandpa's play-style better. Why bring it up if we can only take her word for it? It felt to me that Nancy was advocating for Grandpa during his push and that pinged me so I wanted to explore their past relationship/interactions. Ultimately I was too lazy to sleuth the game out, and I wasn't motivated to bother Nancy about it. Seemed like a dead end. I will check out the link provided by Val later.

I can understand that but I was telling the truth, I did in fact miselim him and it was under a different account. If it had happened under this account, that would obviously be preferable but it wasn’t and that is my only experience playing with him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And if you ever actually get around to doing that metacheck, you will find that none of that is remotely scum indicative for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, do you think you could explain the "alt thing" for us? Because even after reading through the thread I'm not sure what in particular it's referring to at this point beyond the fact an alt exists. I feel like the argument has morphed this bit into something unrecognizable, to the point where you and Val might not be arguing about the same thing anymore.

I also don't like that you're refusing to engage with someone just because they're pressuring you. I don't think Val is being toxic here, they're just pushing on you hard and you haven't really addressed much of their read on you. If you're town, you should want to defend yourself and prove them wrong, not ignore them.

I never said they were “toxic”, I said and stand by that I felt bullied by the way they interacted with me. I was on the verge of possibly being toxic myself because the way he chose to engage with me -pretty much. “you’re scum unless you do what I think you should do”, is not something I will ever put up with and if you have an issue with that, oh well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

she doesn't need to explain the alt thing.

it should be self explainable -- its not that hard to understand.

she townreads me because i am playing the same way i played in a game where she was scum and mislimmed me in.

that game she was on an alt.

and i probably know who she is talking bout -- nd can confirm this did happen.
val and nancy were just going bout either side triumph regarding all that i just epxlained above and it go no where.

yall r both town anwyays

No, we were both town in that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

she doesn't need to explain the alt thing.

it should be self explainable -- its not that hard to understand.

she townreads me because i am playing the same way i played in a game where she was scum and mislimmed me in.

that game she was on an alt.

and i probably know who she is talking bout -- nd can confirm this did happen.
val and nancy were just going bout either side triumph regarding all that i just epxlained above and it go no where.

yall r both town anwyays

Nancy should explain it enough to clarify the situation so everyone can be 100% on the same page. She doesn't need to go into full detail or out the alt.

What do you want me to explain more than I already have? W were both town and I miselimed him. I was extremely shocked when he flipped town in that game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I believe Nancy was on the alt Emily but I might be wrong. Gramma, posting style, and time zones match.

No that wasn’t me but if you do figure it out, please don’t out it, thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I believe Nancy was on the alt Emily but I might be wrong. Gramma, posting style, and time zones match.

no lol

Btw, that PT with you and Emily was probably one of the funniest things ever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I believe Nancy was on the alt Emily but I might be wrong. Gramma, posting style, and time zones match.

I initially thought the same. But of the 3 accounts that mislimmed Grandpa - Loki Dokie, Hopkirk, Emily (see here); only Hopkirk was also on the bugspray wagon, as per Nancys 146. GrandpaMo also has reason to think the Nancy Alt flipped scum (not sure where that comes from, but OK), and Hopkirk is the only other one to fit that description too.

Interestingly, the briefest of looks at that ISO throws up red flags as far as a theoretical scum!Nancy=Hopkirk goes - I can see the "I'm hurt and you are a meanie" attitude coming through from the very first post. That would be a very good reason right off the bat why a scum!Nancy in this game wants to be coy about her scum game in 1009, if we are right about the identity of the alt.

That is why I don't get it. If you aren't scum in this game, why do you need to protect your scum meta from scrutiny? If protecting the alt important to you, then just don't mention the information you gleaned from your alt play, just say "I found this game of Grandpa's, and this is what I see" and don’t mention you were actually in it; or else say "I played in this game under alt X", and just roll a new alt for your next game. Trying to hide the existence of a game you played as scum only makes sense me to me if you also rolled scum this game.

I was town which meant I obviously couldn’t be Hopkirk but I really don’t understand what purpose it serves to trying to out my alt. Please just stop. If I wanted it outed, I already would have done it myself. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Grandpa, I would accept your waterfowl epithet for me with good grace if "I carried a mislim on grandpa" was in fact what Nancy said, but it wasn't. It was:

Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game.

No mention of "carrying" involved.

Town says that to town? Yes, they bloody well do - I say I mislimmed you in our game (sorry about that, old chap), and we were both town.

In any case, if you are right that only scum says that, then that's only further confirmation that Hopkirk and Nancy are one and the same; given that Hopkirk was the only scum on your wagon in 1009.

Please don’t let Hopkirk know that. lolololol

[Nancy Drew 39]

she doesn't need to explain the alt thing.

it should be self explainable -- its not that hard to understand.

she townreads me because i am playing the same way i played in a game where she was scum and mislimmed me in.

that game she was on an alt.

and i probably know who she is talking bout -- nd can confirm this did happen.
val and nancy were just going bout either side triumph regarding all that i just epxlained above and it go no where.

yall r both town anwyays

No, we were both town in that.

shh im tryna confuse them

It apparently worked very well then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

LunarRest

Null read. Sorry I don't have anything more interesting than that for you folks. I can't find anything on which to base a read at the moment. Others have suggested #79 is alignment indicative, which Psyche says is "fine in terms of alignment-indication" (162), which I take to mean 'seems town', but I can see that post being just as likley to come from a scum!LunarRest as it can from town. Others have suggested that it shows a town mindset that's hard for newbscum to fake, but even if I agreed with the premise that newbscum are typically fairly poor (I don't, I've read games where newbscum play some amazing games - one of those in this game, as an aside) , the central argument - that Psyche asking if they should unvote is a little dodgy - was already alluded to by ClarkBar before 79, so they could have just taken that and ran with it.

I don't think there is anything scummy in it, but I have zero confidence in saying anything there is town either; hense I cant give any reading other than a straight up Null.

I'll let you know if that changes.

I suppose that’s fair. I played extremely well in my first scumgame.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry, folks. It was a busy weekend for me so I wasn't particularly active, but I read through the last few pages and I have some thoughts I want to get out there:

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

This post suggests town to me. If someone were scum, I don't know if they would be wanting to inject doubt into the primary bus this early on. It could be waffling, but to me the more likely scenario is town trying to play carefully and make sure that they aren't just getting rid of someone who is unlikeable but isn't scum.

The E-1 early on is probably a good thing, because it's the catalyst that is getting people talking (provided no quick-hammer). Without it, I'm not sure people would be talking as much this early on in the game (although I'm not super familiar with how the early games really go usually).

Thoughts on some other players:

@Psyche

Hasn't really posted anything of substance. Hopped on the wagon early (I guess technically started it, was he 2nd vote on Grandpa?) but I feel like RVS doesn't go anywhere without those first few steps. A few jokes, but nothing that can really be analyzed other than #67. Writing that, but not unvoting could be a way of distancing himself from any blame if wagon ends up lynching town. Kind of like a "see, I'm not a scum who was pushing the wagon, I had doubts about it".

@Clarkbar

Contributing more of substance than the others. I buy his reasoning for putting someone to 4 votes, as has been proven, it is a good way to provoke discussion, which gives more information to work with. I don't think there's anything I want to specifically highlight in his posts, he seems to be asking questions and sharing his thoughts, but I don't think there's anything I can see that tells me anything about his particular leanings.

One thing that did strike me was in

@T3

Similar to Psyche in that there wasn't much substance there, just hopping on the wagon and pressing it. Could be Psyche/T3 scum team (can two SEs be mafia in the same game?) but that would be kind of convenient.

@Grandpa

I don't interpret him voting for himself as scummy as you others do. If I could summarize his defense it is: nobody has built a convincing case on me yet and hammering me early cuts off any further discussion for the day, neither of which tell me anything one way or another. I'm curious to see how this develops over the course of the day.

@LunarEclipse

Self-deprecation aside, they've had one post of any substance #79. I'm not as convinced as Nancy is that this is a town-leaning post, because I think that assuming someone can't put themselves into the mindset of town just because this is their first game on this forum. I think I need to see more posts from them before I develop any ideas of leaning.

I think that covers everyone so far. For now I think keeping Grandpa as the lead contender for the guillotine is the right move, as they do have an erratic posting style that may cause confusion later in the game, but hopefully there is something more substantive to base a day 1 lynch off of in the next few days, and we haven't yet heard from the two AFK players.

It’s the sign of the apocalypse that I’m actually in agreement with Val over absolutely anything. I’m also tend not sr anyone who correctly reads me but in tm recently we miselimed Zor for making a very similar kind of post. This really doesn’t read like busywork to me. It’s not a confident read at all but I read it - without more input from Blurry as NIA for now.

I need to hear a lot more from this slot before I can confidently read it one way or another.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If you’re actually town with that wild read, you shouldn’t expect any scummie noms anytime soon. No I won’t address this anymore than I already have. Your welcome to your silly read on me. I’m more interested in actually trying to parse slots. Sr that if you like. I don’t have to satisfy you. I know I’m town and if you’re also town and need a building to fall on you to see it, then that’s a you problem.

[Nancy Drew 39]

One last time:

I was in a game with Mo. We were both town in said game. I miselimed him under an alt account I didn’t want outed.

Should I make this colour-coded or what tf more aren’t youcomprehending?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I sincerely apologize if I could be nicer about this but I’ve literally explained, re-explained and re-explained ad nauseum and even after I don’t think I can make things any clearer, Val continues to insist I’m ignoring the question. Then Roden piggybanks on it.

I’m fine with answering questions but getting repeatedly asked the same exact question - which I have answered, probably at least at least 3 times now, is exasperating. And I honestly can’t tell anymore if Val is pretending not to read my responses or he’s genuinely not understanding. Either way, I’m done with repeating myself over and over again, when I have abundantly clearly already explained it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

what tf more aren’t youcomprehending?

If you want to protect the alt, why not just say "I have a meta read on X, here is the game he played in and here is what I think it tells us"; trying to muscle in the fact you were playing in it under an alt seems like a way to try and bolster not very good reasoning with "I was there" cred whilst at the same time trying to hide your own meta tells. You know who worries about thier own meta tells in a mafia game? Scum! Who cares if you get meta read as town if you are town, right?

^ This.

I didn’t want to link the game BECAUSE I was playing under an alt. I’m almost regretting now even mentioning it but when I saw Mo so quickly being run up to E-1, I felt I had an obligation to say what I did because on what other basis could I have effectively communicated my concern with the speed of that wagon or why I was leery of it?

I really expected Mo to flip scum in that game and I was obviously wrong, so I had serious doubts about him flipping scum as a result.

I never ever link my ISO’s when I play under alts but if you like, I’d be more than fine linking that tm game, because I played that under my main.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

I asked him to read TGP, and Ceph thinks it's possible TGP is scum, but is confused at why he's a popular target. Also as scum it'd be weird to go after Nancy because she'll definitely OMGUS you. Not the wagon I'd go for today, and it's practically the same wagon as the one that was on me (Flavor, BBmolla, Nancy, NEE). The only difference is Mistyx being on it and shea avoiding it despite really going after TGP (and obviously TGP not being on it). Kind of just reinforces to me that assuming there were a couple of scum on my wagon that it's not TGP.

Let's talk about interactions between common people on these wagons.

NEE about Flavor: Opening post is a vote for FL, says that FL vote is town. Directly talks to FL once. Gets asked a question directly by FL and responds with a scum game. Once more recently but just about how the game isn't chaotic.
Flavor about NEE: Quite a few. Asks NEE about his reads. There's a short back and forth previously mentioned here.

These two don't seem to be likely to be both scum, though I admit Flavor seems like the type of person who is good at interacting with his scummates.

NEE about BBMolla: basically agrees with BBM saying he's content with the Ram vote. Claims he'd support a BBM wagon if not for the wagon on me... then joins the TGP vote (justified later by then saying that TGP is the scummy one and bbmolla is "slightly scummy")
BBM about NEE: Votes for NEE in a jokingly way then goes back to the Pine project he assigned himself. No further interactions.

If one of these two are scum I could definitely see the other being scum. NEE could be halfheartedly distancing from BBM. That said, BBM doesn't have many interactions with anyone so have to adjust on that basis.

NEE about Nancy: His iso is FULL of interaction with Nancy.
Nancy about NEE: Likewise here.

Are NEE and Nancy otherwise good friends? Because assuming not, it seems unlikely to me that these two are together.

---

BBM about Flavor: Gets asked a direct question by FL and answers it quickly. Says he's "unconcerned with sorting FL today."
Flavor about BBM: Spends some time calling BBM "obviously town." Other than the direct question to BBM has no interaction with him until BBM says that he's unconcerned with FL.

Definitely a possible pairing, though again part of this is BBM has fewer interactions overall so it seems less determinative.

BBM about Nancy: recently called Nancy town. Otherwise nothing.
Nancy about BBM: Agrees with the Pine vote by BBM. Calls into question BBM's Pine vote later. Answers a question about Ramcius.

Nancy's posts to BBM seem pretty organic at least.

---

Nancy about Flavor: Similar to NEE, Nancy has oodles of interactions.
Flavor about Nancy: Similar.

Again, I think Nancy and Flavor are probably two people who would interact a lot with their scum partners, but I have no reason to believe that they're both scum aligned.

Eliminating Flavor and him turning scum would point me toward BBM but probably not NorwegianboyEE. My town read of Nancy aside, I feel like the two of them are probably well suited to playing off each other as scum.

Eliminating BBM doesn't really do much for this type of analysis, unfortunately as he could be a potential partner to basically anyone on that list.


NEE and Nancy aren't really two people I'm excited to see go today outside of this.

This is the town!Zor post that one of the two scums, convinced me to vote for.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I want to sincerely apologize if I’ve either upset anyone or made them uncomfortable. @Val89, you absolutely did not deserve those last couple of posts from me. I’m just extremely frustrated that I keep being continually asked to defend what I view as a blatantly obvtown post - repeatedly but I feel bad because this is the newbie queue and I shouldn’t be holding newbie players up to unfairly high standards, so again, I’m extremely sorry and regret that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am upset I didn't replace Wayward Son.

Why is that?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I sincerely apologize if I could be nicer about this but I’ve literally explained, re-explained and re-explained ad nauseum and even after I don’t think I can make things any clearer, Val continues to insist I’m ignoring the question. Then Roden piggybanks on it.

I’m fine with answering questions but getting repeatedly asked the same exact question - which I have answered, probably at least at least 3 times now, is exasperating. And I honestly can’t tell anymore if Val is pretending not to read my responses or he’s genuinely not understanding. Either way, I’m done with repeating myself over and over again, when I have abundantly clearly already explained it.

what tf more aren’t youcomprehending?

If you want to protect the alt, why not just say "I have a meta read on X, here is the game he played in and here is what I think it tells us"; trying to muscle in the fact you were playing in it under an alt seems like a way to try and bolster not very good reasoning with "I was there" cred whilst at the same time trying to hide your own meta tells. You know who worries about thier own meta tells in a mafia game? Scum! Who cares if you get meta read as town if you are town, right?

^ This.

I didn’t want to link the game BECAUSE I was playing under an alt. I’m almost regretting now even mentioning it but when I saw Mo so quickly being run up to E-1, I felt I had an obligation to say what I did because on what other basis could I have effectively communicated my concern with the speed of that wagon or why I was leery of it?

I really expected Mo to flip scum in that game and I was obviously wrong, so I had serious doubts about him flipping scum as a result.

I never ever link my ISO’s when I play under alts but if you like, I’d be more than fine linking that tm game, because I played that under my main.

Subject: TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

I asked him to read TGP, and Ceph thinks it's possible TGP is scum, but is confused at why he's a popular target. Also as scum it'd be weird to go after Nancy because she'll definitely OMGUS you. Not the wagon I'd go for today, and it's practically the same wagon as the one that was on me (Flavor, BBmolla, Nancy, NEE). The only difference is Mistyx being on it and shea avoiding it despite really going after TGP (and obviously TGP not being on it). Kind of just reinforces to me that assuming there were a couple of scum on my wagon that it's not TGP.

Let's talk about interactions between common people on these wagons.

NEE about Flavor: Opening post is a vote for FL, says that FL vote is town. Directly talks to FL once. Gets asked a question directly by FL and responds with a scum game. Once more recently but just about how the game isn't chaotic.
Flavor about NEE: Quite a few. Asks NEE about his reads. There's a short back and forth previously mentioned here.

These two don't seem to be likely to be both scum, though I admit Flavor seems like the type of person who is good at interacting with his scummates.

NEE about BBMolla: basically agrees with BBM saying he's content with the Ram vote. Claims he'd support a BBM wagon if not for the wagon on me... then joins the TGP vote (justified later by then saying that TGP is the scummy one and bbmolla is "slightly scummy")
BBM about NEE: Votes for NEE in a jokingly way then goes back to the Pine project he assigned himself. No further interactions.

If one of these two are scum I could definitely see the other being scum. NEE could be halfheartedly distancing from BBM. That said, BBM doesn't have many interactions with anyone so have to adjust on that basis.

NEE about Nancy: His iso is FULL of interaction with Nancy.
Nancy about NEE: Likewise here.

Are NEE and Nancy otherwise good friends? Because assuming not, it seems unlikely to me that these two are together.

---

BBM about Flavor: Gets asked a direct question by FL and answers it quickly. Says he's "unconcerned with sorting FL today."
Flavor about BBM: Spends some time calling BBM "obviously town." Other than the direct question to BBM has no interaction with him until BBM says that he's unconcerned with FL.

Definitely a possible pairing, though again part of this is BBM has fewer interactions overall so it seems less determinative.

BBM about Nancy: recently called Nancy town. Otherwise nothing.
Nancy about BBM: Agrees with the Pine vote by BBM. Calls into question BBM's Pine vote later. Answers a question about Ramcius.

Nancy's posts to BBM seem pretty organic at least.

---

Nancy about Flavor: Similar to NEE, Nancy has oodles of interactions.
Flavor about Nancy: Similar.

Again, I think Nancy and Flavor are probably two people who would interact a lot with their scum partners, but I have no reason to believe that they're both scum aligned.

Eliminating Flavor and him turning scum would point me toward BBM but probably not NorwegianboyEE. My town read of Nancy aside, I feel like the two of them are probably well suited to playing off each other as scum.

Eliminating BBM doesn't really do much for this type of analysis, unfortunately as he could be a potential partner to basically anyone on that list.


NEE and Nancy aren't really two people I'm excited to see go today outside of this.

This is the town!Zor post that one of the two scums, convinced me to vote for.

ok let me actually clear this up.

there is an apparent misunderstanding. val is not talking about what you did, but more of say HOW you did it and the events leading towards it. from my perspective, it may have been coherent that i knew what you were talking about but from someone's else's perspective, it looks like you were maybe trying to hide info on purpose etc. val probably just needs to see it from me v nancy interaction and you need to see that val is only seeing it that way and not you communicating to the whole town. then you later addressed it to val which made them confused -- if that makes sense.

Not really. I don’t see why it’s scummy not to want to out an alt. Saying he wouldn’t necessarily want to take my word for it without evidence, that I can actually understand but what could be the possible scum motive for anyone making that kind of post? Not that I expected anyone to locktown me because of it but I am totally not seeing how anyone could sr that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I want to sincerely apologize if I’ve either upset anyone or made them uncomfortable. @Val89, you absolutely did not deserve those last couple of posts from me. I’m just extremely frustrated that I keep being continually asked to defend what I view as a blatantly obvtown post - repeatedly but I feel bad because this is the newbie queue and I shouldn’t be holding newbie players up to unfairly high standards, so again, I’m extremely sorry and regret that.

Man, just as I was starting to comfortably scum read you, you had to go and post this. Backing off like this is such a townie move I'd almost consider it a town slip. I say almost because an experienced player could convincingly fabricate a town response like this, and I still stand by what I saw as red flags. But I feel better just sorting you as "town lean who had miscommunication issues with Val" for now and moving on. There's no universe where you should be up for elimination on Day 1 anyway.

I sometimes say things I wish I hadn’t when frustrated and I thought what I said sounded kind’ve of mean and unwarranted.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Backing off like this is such a townie move I'd almost consider it a town slip

I wasn't going to comment on it because I thought it was self-evident on it's own, but did you read that as something other than "sorry you are so stupid Val, I shouldn't have expected you to play good like us SE slots." I can only assume there was a very surface level reading if it was taken as an actual apology.

Is there something townie about that?

That isn’t what I said at all. I said that I thought it unreasonable to expect you to have the scumhunting experience of an experienced player. I think that was blatantly self-evident. I really am wasting my time on you, aren’t I? :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Regarding the votes on me, one is a prod vote, Psyche's was something I unfortunately can't answer, and Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

While my predecessor did place his vote during the RVS stage, I think it was actually well placed unknowingly.
73 and 269 strikes me as rather hypocritical, it was addressed, kind of. I'm very curious why Psyche in 310 claimed he was being overeager. You agree with whom? I reread every post between 269 and 310 any a time and didn't see anyone bring up 269 nor comment on it. I honestly feel like this is a scumslip that was meant to be in the scum chat but they messed up.
As such my vote is staying here.

314 is scummy. The only reason to hide reasoning would be because you'd be outing a power role. This clearly isn't the case. You have a scum read and 2 nulls.

Nancy is null, her whole reasoning for town reading Mo is meta, that isn't valid in my eyes, most certainly not as a main justification.

My null read is Nancy, my scum leans are Roden and Chuck, and my scum read is Psyche.

Why no townreads?

[Nancy Drew 39]

hi marashu!
i'm voting blurryx!

Thanks, fixed - M

everyone should be voting blurryx. i even think that should be the lynch for today!

@James, how are you getting this post was meant for scum chat? He’s talking about votes.

Unless this is the wrong post because this is what I got when I clicked that link?

[Nancy Drew 39]

he has been

Oop

Backing off like this is such a townie move I'd almost consider it a town slip

I wasn't going to comment on it because I thought it was self-evident on it's own, but did you read that as something other than "sorry you are so stupid Val, I shouldn't have expected you to play good like us SE slots." I can only assume there was a very surface level reading if it was taken as an actual apology.

Is there something townie about that?

Yes, what you described is exactly why I think it's a townie reaction. A lot of SEs are kinda predictable in newbie games, at least from what I've noticed. Arrogant/cocky/aggressive SEs have a town tell where they either get sweaty and try to solo solve the game, or they recognize they're getting too sweaty for a newbie game and back off. If they're scum, they're just manipulative because they believe they can easily trick newbies (which they actually easily can).

Nancy here seems to fit the mold for the type of SE I'm describing. If she were scum she wouldn't continue to be hostile to you while backing off, or reiterate how frustrated she is and specifically explain why she's frustrated. It could be AtE admittedly, which is why she isn't confirmed town for me. But I don't see how continuing to push the issue here could sort her further or progress the game in any way.

Regarding Roden post 236 is what makes me think he should have / would have voted Nancy.

Why would I vote Nancy during my catch up posts? I already explained why I town leaned her before a wagon could even start anyway. I don't have to vote someone just because I'm trying to sort them.

I was sick today, mild head cold and I'm rebounding. Being sick in the summer is the worst.

Quick question to newcomers (and welcome!) how do you feel about the dissolution of the Grandpa wagon and the quick reforming of the James/Blurry slot?

The Grandpa wagon looked bad the moment I saw it lol. Like, idk how you guys let him get to E-1 so quickly, which makes me think scum was on it. I'm liking the pressure on Blurry/James though. I think James is already making better posts than his predecessor at least, but I'm still on board with keeping this wagon going.

I do think it's interesting that Psyche has been the backbone of both wagons. I don't know their meta, are they usually so wagon-happy?

I think Roden is definitely town. Flipflops like these usually come from town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

hi marashu!
i'm voting blurryx!

Thanks, fixed - M

everyone should be voting blurryx. i even think that should be the lynch for today!

@James, how are you getting this post was meant for scum chat? He’s talking about votes.

Unless this is the wrong post because this is what I got when I clicked that link?

310

Due to my dyslexia I have all posts set to descending, so that makes more sense. Still think it could be NAI though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Regarding the votes on me, one is a prod vote, Psyche's was something I unfortunately can't answer, and Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

While my predecessor did place his vote during the RVS stage, I think it was actually well placed unknowingly.
73 and 269 strikes me as rather hypocritical, it was addressed, kind of. I'm very curious why Psyche in 310 claimed he was being overeager. You agree with whom? I reread every post between 269 and 310 any a time and didn't see anyone bring up 269 nor comment on it. I honestly feel like this is a scumslip that was meant to be in the scum chat but they messed up.
As such my vote is staying here.

314 is scummy. The only reason to hide reasoning would be because you'd be outing a power role. This clearly isn't the case. You have a scum read and 2 nulls.

Nancy is null, her whole reasoning for town reading Mo is meta, that isn't valid in my eyes, most certainly not as a main justification.

My null read is Nancy, my scum leans are Roden and Chuck, and my scum read is Psyche.

Why no townreads?

Not to make it too obvious but everyone else is town lean or town read. By process of elimination of them not being mentioned as Null or Scum.

It’s only obvious now.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy claims that, at a point in time, there was at least 1 scum on GrandpaMo's wagon. At that point in time, Lunarrest, ClarkBar, Psyche and T3 were all on or hovering about the Wagon. In the same post she claims its neither ClarkBar nor Lunarrest. Meaning T3 or Psyche. Her next post implies she thinks T3 is a town lean, she also said "Psyche’s probably town.", so if the scum were to be Psyche here in her eyes, it changed after 190 Basically I just think what she said was fluff to claim she has ideas of who is scum and who isn't.

While having an alt and keeping it to yourself isn't scummy, hiding information from town is when the information benefits town. I also think meta reliance, not meta as a guideline but meta reliance, is inherently scummy, it just provides fake reasoning, making it look like you're inputting when you aren't at all.

After ISOing Nancy I can actually see a Nancy/GrandpaMo team being a thing, Her whole reasoning for being against the Mo wagon was Meta, and 147 just seems too convenient, as if she told Mo how to act in a mafia PM, then can just brush away everything Mo did or didn't do under the rug of Meta.

Unfortunately if you couldn't tell I thoroughly dislike and don't support Meta-reliant reads.

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

And even if that was actually true, how does it make me scum?

Do a metadive on me if you think that’s in anyway even remotely scum indicative for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

Yeah, voting (or scumreading) someone because they start scumreading you is "Oh My God U Suck!“, but it's not always a scummy thing in itself. Remember town doesn't know who the scum are, and are actively looking for things to identify the scum. If you are town, then the only thing you know for sure is that you are town so if someone starts a scum case on you, you can't help but wonder if it's engineered, and that can prompt you to start scum casing them back without it being deliberate. A town can OMGUS another town very easily.

Nancy's vote on me doesn't even seem like OMGUS, though. She hasn't explicitly said so, but to me she has implied several times she reads me as 'wrong town' .

Her reaction to my scum case was more in line with NEEs from last game, in the vein of "go there, I dare you, and you are going to get voted." In that game, I pointed it out it was hanging there as an implicit threat against me, and read it as scummy, and it wasn't ever followed through on by NEE - they just decided to night kill me instead.

Nancy's vote on me seems like that follow through to me because I did continue to go there. It was more like an explicit and overt 'I'm voting you because I don't like your attitude, not because I think you are scum', and she wants me to know it - perhaps banking that my apparent inexperience might make me back off. A punishment vote, rather than OMGUS, if you will.

And yeah, I don't see any other way to read it but scummy, to be honest. It was in the last game, and I know it's only a sample size of one, but I think it is in this game too.

I voted you out of frustration but I actually think James could be scum and only voted me because you did.

[Nancy Drew 39]

UNVOTE:

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've been leaning town on Nancy, but Val's convinced me that there really is stuff not to like about her in her ISO. By her own account, I should be taking her votes more seriously than I might someone else's in the game because she purportedly will never make them unless she's confident they'll land on scum. But when I look at her one vote this whole game (for Val!) I just see boring resentment, not any sorting, and definitely nothing afterward to either sharpen or otherwise help propel the town based on the read. She explicitly disavows any read-based motivation a single post later. For these reasons her ISO is super frustrating and hard to distinguish from active lurking. I mean we're now 17 pages, 419 posts, into the game and she has nothing but a bunch of specious null and town reads? It's tough to swallow.

At the same time though, there's little here to positively mark her as scum

if

her meta is consistent with this decision to never meaningfully weigh into the game - which I've only been assuming is the case but I'd bet it is. Val tries to make more of it by marking out apparent contradictions between posts like 183, 202, and 212, but tbh that's small fry shit. Any apparent tension between those posts is resolved by acknowledging that she didn't vote Val because she scumread the slot; she voted it because she was mad at him, and has been ambivalent about admitting as much. Unless there's some reason to interpret that anger as disingenous, that's NAI to me - though antitown in context.

also bold red! that sure helps single out stuff! gotta touch that sparingly though

And the red quotes he singled out are things I definitely don’t say as scum.


@Val, when are you going to do that metadive? Seriously? None of the reason for sr me are even remotely scum indicative for me and anyone who actually did do a metadive on me who actually cares about correctly reading me would see that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Another OMGUS.

No my vote on Val wasn’t an an omgus and I just posted a link that completely debunked your bs case on me and your response is to outright refuse to read it.

If I’m right, I think there’s a decent chance Psyche is your buddy and you were just distancing him with that initial vote.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

The only less valid way to form reads than meta is to open a random name generator, and it's close.

Only people who are either scum or completely incapable of reading meta say that.

I OMGUSed every player in that game who sr me and guess what, I was town in that game too.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Anyone who sr me and doesn’t click this, then my possible miselim which scum is enthusiastically pushing is on you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Another OMGUS.

No my vote on Val wasn’t an an omgus and I just posted a link that completely debunked your bs case on me and your response is to outright refuse to read it.

If I’m right, I think there’s a decent chance Psyche is your buddy and you were just distancing him with that initial vote.

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

The only less valid way to form reads than meta is to open a random name generator, and it's close.

Only people who are either scum or completely incapable of reading meta say that.

I OMGUSed every player in that game who sr me and guess what, I was town in that game too.

I haven't even read the game, but if you OMGUS everybody who SRs you as town, why didn't you OMGUS Val89?

I voted him because he was non-stop tunneling me and I felt bullied and intimidated by that but I really think he’s town and my vote on me was sheer frustration and was never meant to be serious.

If I pretty much omgus sr/vote - or have in almost every game - in what world, do you view that as scum indicative for me?

Ask Mo, I received votes from the entire town minus one in that game we played - probably for the exact same reasons.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Wait, why Psyche? They were the first vote on Blurry.

He played with me in Forrest Fire, so he should know that none of this is scum indicative for me.

He’s very clearly planning to jump on me if his last post is any indication and that really doesn’t mean much. I once put my buddy to E-1 in a game, so I could see possible distancing,

[Nancy Drew 39]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

Is there anything in your eyes you've done this entire game which is town sided? If so do tell, or is your entire town case going to be "So and so played in a game with me before so they should know town me does this/doesn't do this"?

Anyone with eyes, who can read should be able to tell I’m town here. Why did I make that post about miseliiming Mo? Other than concern that he may be miselimed?

Please explain to me why scum!me does that?

In fact, other than the votes on players who have voted/sr me, what else do you see as even remotely scummy? Because none of that is even remotely scum indicative for me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Wait, why Psyche? They were the first vote on Blurry.

He played with me in Forrest Fire, so he should know that none of this is scum indicative for me.

He’s very clearly planning to jump on me if his last post is any indication and that really doesn’t mean much.

I once put my buddy to E-1 in a game, so I could see possible distancing,

Bit of a difference between E-1 and E-4 or E-3.

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

tbf nancy

can

be the sort to get wrapped up in these sorts of conflicts in general, so it's not clear if we should treat that as alignment-indicative either
a little meta dive could do a lot of work here perhaps

Maybe T3 is right then? I missed this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

pog e-1 VOTE: GrandpaMo

If you’re town here, you should never self-vote.

Official Vote Count 1.02

Boeing 787

---

Elimination

GrandpaMo

(3): LunarRest, Psyche, T3

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ClarkBar

Psyche

(1): BlurryX

Wayward Son

(1): Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting

(3): Wayward Son, brookewyrm, GrandpaMo

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

VOTE: Clarkbar

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

It's as if Psyche voted him so that Grandpa can confirm him or suggest that he is town because Psyche wanted to get a wagon going (if I haven't misunderstood). It looks like they were trying to distance each other, as if they aren't mafia together early but now that the wagon is going decently strong (3 votes). And the whole post saying that he's nervous and asking if he should unvote feels weird too. Why is Psyche pretending or atleast appears to pretend like he doesn't know what to do? If he thinks the wagon is rash why not just unvote? Why ask others?

Hey! You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you aren't stupid.

And what if Mo’s town? You don’t even know the flip yet but you’re assuming teams?

Clark was definitely not an omgus vote, Ha! just flat out destroyed your wrong case on me!

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, you're panicking like someone who is in hammer range. Pretty sure James is getting elim'd today at this rate.

I’ve been miselimed before. In Timeshift, I had 3 votes on my slot and handled that completely differently. Want to guess how that turned out? I got run up and 2 days later the slot that correctly hard tr me also got miselimed.

So being chill about viotes only got me miselimed,

[Nancy Drew 39]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

Is there anything in your eyes you've done this entire game which is town sided? If so do tell, or is your entire town case going to be "So and so played in a game with me before so they should know town me does this/doesn't do this"?

Anyone with eyes, who can read should be able to tell I’m town here. Why did I make that post about miseliiming Mo? Other than concern that he may be miselimed?

Please explain to me why scum!me does that?

In fact, other than the votes on players who have voted/sr me, what else do you see as even remotely scummy? Because none of that is even remotely scum indicative for me.

Simple towncred until the pretence of avoiding a mislim. This isn't to say you and Mo are necessarily buddies, although it isn't impossible. There doesn't necessarily have to be multiple reasons for a scum action, it can be as simple as trying to look townie and to allow you to hide. Playing passively instead of scum hunting, which you are doing, would definitely suit the theme of fake concern of a miselim.

This is why I’m voting you. You are twusting everytime I did as scummy when you could just as easily hard tr me for it, so I think this is disingenuous.

I am extremely overgamed and activty is never AI for me eirher.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i do think that i know enough about nancy to believe most of what she's being criticized for is NAI
however i think already said as much? i think that while i'm sympathetic to criticism of nancy's play i'm pretty neutral on idea that she's mafia and think the main case against her falls apart once you accept that her vote wasn't based on a read

i still think blurryx's replacement would be a better lynch

ah why am i doing this on my phone my laptop is right next to me

Okay, back to thinking you might be scum.

You damn well know he was berating and tunnelling me non-stop. I voted him instead of doing something actually toxic but I wasn’t planning to votepark on it the entire day.

So how do I know you’re not bussinc or even want possibly chaining miselims here?

Are you setting me up for D2 miselim?

Read that tm game, I got a lot of shit for that post-game. So yeah I voted him instead of losing it on him, so that makes me scum?

[Nancy Drew 39]

pog e-1 VOTE: GrandpaMo

If you’re town here, you should never self-vote.

Official Vote Count 1.02

Boeing 787

---

Elimination

GrandpaMo

(3): LunarRest, Psyche, T3

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ClarkBar

Psyche

(1): BlurryX

Wayward Son

(1): Nancy Drew 39

Not Voting

(3): Wayward Son, brookewyrm, GrandpaMo

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

VOTE: Clarkbar

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

It's as if Psyche voted him so that Grandpa can confirm him or suggest that he is town because Psyche wanted to get a wagon going (if I haven't misunderstood). It looks like they were trying to distance each other, as if they aren't mafia together early but now that the wagon is going decently strong (3 votes). And the whole post saying that he's nervous and asking if he should unvote feels weird too. Why is Psyche pretending or atleast appears to pretend like he doesn't know what to do? If he thinks the wagon is rash why not just unvote? Why ask others?

Hey! You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you aren't stupid.

And what if Mo’s town? You don’t even know the flip yet but you’re assuming teams?

Clark was definitely not an omgus vote, Ha! just flat out destroyed your wrong case on me!

@James, are you blind?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I just dusproved everything James said and he still says I have done nothing town indicative which is a flat out lie. Including the Clark vote - because he wasn’t voting me att but please @James, @Psyche, feel free to ignore that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I would seriously like to ask anyone who is possibly sr me - what do you view as my agenda in any of my posting because if I was actually scum here which I am most certainly not - I damn well would have one.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm having a hard time following what you find fishy about my reads around you nancy but I think we're just reading the situations differently. I think the case against you is not very good, but I will not rule out the possibility that you're scum. I can see why a position like that might seem opportunistic for scum, but it's also what I'm sincerely feeling atm. I sure wish I could put that one emoji right here. The one with the shrugging.

Why does scum!me voice concern about a possible miselim on Mo, unless you actually think we’re buddies , what possible scum motivation could I possibly have?

And if anyone is going to claim some kind of bs towncred, then I ask why would I have even needed that since no one was even sr me at the time. I’m asking you Psyche, if you’re town to explain the scum motivation in ANY of my posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@James, are you blind?

74 is fluff. You voted someone for voting Mo. That makes you town how? It's just you trying to use the pretence of a miselim to look town.
61 isn't town indicative in any way, you can be against self votes as scum and as town.
76 and 83. Well done you loosely tried pressuring Clark.
None of these are town indicative, they're NAI.
Pretending they are for a moment, is it not alarming you have nothing for nearly 400 posts, that you deem town sided?

Did you even bother clicking that link? I think it’s definitely scummy that you refuse to critically look at anything that clearly torpedoes your case. If you were town here. I would expect that to actually matter.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And James, you clearly still nullread me so my paranoing on a possible you/Psyche team is intensifying. Because at worst you clearly do not a have a scumcase on me, you have an NAI one and if you flip scum, yeah you’d better believe that I think Psyche could possibly be bussing you here

Why push him so hard earlier just to suddenly drop it and switch over to me? It doesn’t read genuine at all to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@James, are you blind?

74 is fluff. You voted someone for voting Mo. That makes you town how? It's just you trying to use the pretence of a miselim to look town.
61 isn't town indicative in any way, you can be against self votes as scum and as town.
76 and 83. Well done you loosely tried pressuring Clark.
None of these are town indicative, they're NAI.
Pretending they are for a moment, is it not alarming you have nothing for nearly 400 posts, that you deem town sided?

Did you even bother clicking that link? I think it’s definitely scummy that you refuse to critically look at anything that clearly torpedoes your case. If you were town here. I would expect that to actually matter.

Meta isn't valid, the only thing it torpedoes is your town case, the fact how you refuse to read or analyse and just rely on meta.

Your entire bs fake case on me is based off of fucking meta!

[Nancy Drew 39]

And James, you clearly still nullread me so my paranoing on a possible you/Psyche team is intensifying. Because at worst you clearly do not a have a scumcase on me, you have an NAI one and if you flip scum, yeah you’d better believe that I think Psyche could possibly be bussing you here

Why push him so hard earlier just to suddenly drop it and switch over to me? It doesn’t read genuine at all to me.

And you claim I ignore things.

Why did you not answer me? Pushing your bs non-existent scumcase while ignoring my questions.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?

Answer this.

No, you first, I have 0 intention of allowing you or anyone else in any game ever get away with such a blatantly obvious shitpush on me.

You answer. I made it easy for you by actually posting a link.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

Why are you refusing to read an ISO where I pretty much did the exact same thing you’re wrongly sr me in that game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

The question in 484 you don't have patience, I was finding quotes.

I can't even just be stubborn about this, I genuinely didn't see that one line by Val89, or at least didn't process it. This is why you sleep when it hits 2am... my apologies Psyche.

482 I'm not opening it.
481 was already answered, just you asking it again.
No I am not blind.
461 was answered.

If you won’t open that link, you’re either horribly bad town or scum, which is it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Okay, I’m good with my vote on you then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If someone does pretty much the same thing every game, then it’s clearly NAI and you haven’t given a single reason to sr me which isn’t literally based on playstyle. Vanderscamp actually recognized that he had been wrongly sr me based off of playstyle but then he was town and and genuinely interested in correctly parsing me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, you're panicking like someone who is in hammer range. Pretty sure James is getting elim'd today at this rate.

I’ve been miselimed before. In Timeshift, I had 3 votes on my slot and handled that completely differently. Want to guess how that turned out? I got run up and 2 days later the slot that correctly hard tr me also got miselimed.

So being chill about viotes only got me miselimed,

Wait are you at E-2? I thought someone unvoted. If not then ok this is valid.

I'm having a hard time following what you find fishy about my reads around you nancy but I think we're just reading the situations differently. I think the case against you is not very good, but I will not rule out the possibility that you're scum. I can see why a position like that might seem opportunistic for scum, but it's also what I'm sincerely feeling atm. I sure wish I could put that one emoji right here. The one with the shrugging.

Why does scum!me voice concern about a possible miselim on Mo, unless you actually think we’re buddies , what possible scum motivation could I possibly have?

And if anyone is going to claim some kind of bs towncred, then I ask why would I have even needed that since no one was even sr me at the time. I’m asking you Psyche, if you’re town to explain the scum motivation in ANY of my posts.

Hate to bring up T3 in 2065 again. But this is actually exactly what he did in that game. He was a top town read yet still saved a townie from E-1 on Day 1 by making a meta case for them (as well as fake softing Masons). So I wouldn't rule that out here.

Alright fair enough but I’m not T3, so you can believe that because of my mistake in that game I didn’t want to see it repeated or I’m doing this as scum. Which do you think makes more sense? Should I have said nothing and not voice my suspicions that he might possibly be a miselim?

It’s seriously freaking me out how off the charts bleeding obvtown I am and still having to fight off sr. I haven’t been so wrongly misread since the MU game where I wrongly defended scum and wound up being the game losinf miselim. This is beyond mind blowing. If I was actually scum here, I wouldn’t bother to make these kinds of waves and no one would be even remotely sussing me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

I’m voting you because you refuse to click that link which 100% disproves your entire case on me. And @Roden. I’m town, so if I’m miselimed D2 or any day, I’m still 100% flipping town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

Oh. Uh ok.

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

I’m voting you because you refuse to click that link which 100% disproves your entire case on me. And @Roden. I’m town, so if I’m miselimed D2 or any day, I’m still 100% flipping town.

Well I mean, I don't expect you to say otherwise lol. But I'm not really worried about D2 tbh, and you shouldn't either if you think James is scum. The only reason you should be worried is if you expect him to flip town despite your vote on him. Because if he flips scum I don't see anyone accusing you of scum theater with him and then bussing him. That would make zero sense no matter anyone's perspective on what happened.

I think it’s likely he’s scum but people can’t see I’m town, so I think I have good reason to think I could be a miselum irrespective of his flip.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them.

This is the point, Nancy, I've tried and I'm struggling to find them. If you do think it's very easy, would you please indulge me? I'm trying to find reasons to believe what you are saying here...

Also, WIMk?

That was a typo, it’s supposed to be WIM. Alright, I’ll try to find a couple of games.

[Nancy Drew 39]

James,

Given your slot is now in hammer-range, would you mind both claiming, and also answering the following?

Before you replaced in, I was very lightly scumreading your slot, based almost entirely on the confused reads your predecessor gave us on T3 and Grandpa. I don't think it's fair to read your slot based on what might have been a communication thing, so I'm resetting that read to null, but could you give us your reasoning for TR/TL'ing those two if that is what you are doing?

If you have answered and I missed it, sorry; but I only see confirmation in your ISO that you are townreading or townleading both (360) and no explanation as to why.

I was a bit tunnel visioned on proving Nancy wrong but I'll answer it now sorry for the wait.

T3, if you're doing what I think you're doing I'm gonna laugh my ass off so hard.

If he

is

doing what I think you think that T3 is doing, do we think that scum don't already think that he was doing what I think that you think that he was doing, and thus we should probably confirm one way of another?

If I am thinking it's the same thing you and Roden have, you can probably see how I read T3 and why I'm reluctant.
For GrandpaMo he actually seems to be trying to game solve and scum hunt, even if its sporadic and weird. 397, 381, 312, 290, 255, 252 as some examples.

While I'm also here:
ClarkBar and Val89 are my 2 other confident town sided people in my eyes.
Val89 is trying to solve, a lot. 511, 509, 417, 409, 366, 296, 292. As some examples
ClarkBar is doing the same, but maybe not as much. 404, 345, 342, 221, 174. As examples.

Although actually while trudging through some older posts:

Regarding the alt thing. I was annoyed that Nancy used a past experience with Grandpa to defend/justify the gameplay style they were using that got them to E-1 fairly quickly but then decided to not disclose the game in question. I wanted to skim that game for similarities to this one to get a better read on if what Nancy was saying was true and informed this game and Grandpa's play-style better. Why bring it up if we can only take her word for it? It felt to me that Nancy was advocating for Grandpa during his push and that pinged me so I wanted to explore their past relationship/interactions.

Ultimately I was too lazy to sleuth the game out, and I wasn't motivated to bother Nancy about it.

Seemed like a dead end. I will check out the link provided by Val later.

Nancy do you have some reason not to scum read/scum lean ClarkBar for the bolded section? Boiled down the only difference between the bolded section and what I'm doing is I'm voting you. So either this means you would scum read ClarkBar for this, or you're just OMGUS voting me.

I referenced that vote because my vote on him was for wanting the Mo wagon at E -1. My point was that the claim that I’ve been only voting slots that were sr me was false. If you read my series of posts, I make that extremely clear, so I don’t know why you think I should be voting him?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

Once again I implore you to point out a single town sided thing you've done this game. You're relying on meta instead of actually being town sided. You aren't trying to help town, you just want to coast/lurk.

Let's say somebody doesn't have the time to read over all of your previous games, they may be busy with exams, work, maybe they just don't dedicate a lot of time to mafia. Why don't you show this hypothetical player something you've done this game that makes you town?

You haven't done anything to convince people you're town apart from "REEEEEEEEEE look at my meta, YOU AREN'T READING MY CHERRY PICKED META YOU SCUM!". So once again if someone doesn't have the time, why would they think you were town from this game Nancy?

I literally linked a recent game for you. How much time and effort would it have taken you to click it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

i'm a fakeclaimer what can i say
my father was a fakeclaimer and his father before him

so ur scum fake claiming?

I have doubts on Psyche being town here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

Can I vote now or what

Why the fuck did ya'll lynch before us

We can wagon but probably want to avoid hammer range. Who did you have in mind?
WANH and TH need to give final reads. I think they are likely to die by virtue of being large hydra. I think TH is more townie and dangerous now that I’ve got my head out of my butt to see it so I would appreciate it if they could give final reads in light of Titus flip.

Halloween:
Kill TH and Cakez.
Then contemplate if RC's slot was scum or not.

Christmas:
Ask NSG to solve.

-bitmap

Is there even one of your heads that is decent at Mafia? Serious question. If scum kills this slot, they 100% deserve to lose because they’re absolute fucking morons if they do.

Alright @Val, this didn’t involve a vote but I was pretty damn toxic in that game, so it’s really kind’ve embarrassing to reread those posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t expect it to be Psyche, I actually thought he could be Jame’ buddy. If T3 and Mo were fakeclaiming to protect Psyche, then they’re both probably town. I had T3 as a townlock anyway.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry, folks. It was a busy weekend for me so I wasn't particularly active, but I read through the last few pages and I have some thoughts I want to get out there:

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

This post suggests town to me. If someone were scum, I don't know if they would be wanting to inject doubt into the primary bus this early on. It could be waffling, but to me the more likely scenario is town trying to play carefully and make sure that they aren't just getting rid of someone who is unlikeable but isn't scum.

The E-1 early on is probably a good thing, because it's the catalyst that is getting people talking (provided no quick-hammer). Without it, I'm not sure people would be talking as much this early on in the game (although I'm not super familiar with how the early games really go usually).

Thoughts on some other players:

@Psyche

Hasn't really posted anything of substance. Hopped on the wagon early (I guess technically started it, was he 2nd vote on Grandpa?) but I feel like RVS doesn't go anywhere without those first few steps. A few jokes, but nothing that can really be analyzed other than #67. Writing that, but not unvoting could be a way of distancing himself from any blame if wagon ends up lynching town. Kind of like a "see, I'm not a scum who was pushing the wagon, I had doubts about it".

@Clarkbar

Contributing more of substance than the others. I buy his reasoning for putting someone to 4 votes, as has been proven, it is a good way to provoke discussion, which gives more information to work with. I don't think there's anything I want to specifically highlight in his posts, he seems to be asking questions and sharing his thoughts, but I don't think there's anything I can see that tells me anything about his particular leanings.

One thing that did strike me was in

@T3

Similar to Psyche in that there wasn't much substance there, just hopping on the wagon and pressing it. Could be Psyche/T3 scum team (can two SEs be mafia in the same game?) but that would be kind of convenient.

@Grandpa

I don't interpret him voting for himself as scummy as you others do. If I could summarize his defense it is: nobody has built a convincing case on me yet and hammering me early cuts off any further discussion for the day, neither of which tell me anything one way or another. I'm curious to see how this develops over the course of the day.

@LunarEclipse

Self-deprecation aside, they've had one post of any substance #79. I'm not as convinced as Nancy is that this is a town-leaning post, because I think that assuming someone can't put themselves into the mindset of town just because this is their first game on this forum. I think I need to see more posts from them before I develop any ideas of leaning.

I think that covers everyone so far. For now I think keeping Grandpa as the lead contender for the guillotine is the right move, as they do have an erratic posting style that may cause confusion later in the game, but hopefully there is something more substantive to base a day 1 lynch off of in the next few days, and we haven't yet heard from the two AFK players.

I think Mo spewed town by this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Official Vote Count 1.11

DeHavilland Twin Otter

---

Elimination

JamesTheNames

(5): Roden, T3, Nancy Drew 39, Psyche, Val89

<==HAMMER

Nancy Drew 39

(2): JamesTheNames

Psyche

(1): ClarkBar

Not Voting

(2): GrandpaMo, Chuck Shurley

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

An Elimination has been achieved.

I don’t think scum bussed, so I think James’ partner is likely offwagon and I think Blurry spewed Mo town, so it’s probably between Chuck and Clark.

I’m seriously overgamed af, so I will try do some more reteading later.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am upset I didn't replace Wayward Son.

@Chiuck I asked why you said this and I don’t believe you answered me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

To keep setup ambiguous from scum for at least one night longer, someone should go ahead and hammer.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Unless James is fake claiming, scum are the only one with the exception of the other PR who KNOW the setup, since doctor only appears once in each of column A and B. If they have a rolecop or roleblocker solves the setup completely for them.

No way Psyche didn't know that. Get this obvscum outta here, we can sort Nancy for sure tomorrow.

VOTE: Pysche

I'm rereading what happened at the end of Day 1 and this still sticks out as odd to me. Val, can you tell us your thought process here? You voted James shortly afterward when it looked like you picked up on Psyche's counter claim, but this vote and reasoning feels off.

Well, if scum bussed, it can only be Val because a bus wouldn’t make sense early wagon but Val was hardpushing me, so I guess that’s possible.

So, it has to be between those 3. I think you, T3 and Mo are all town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

To keep setup ambiguous from scum for at least one night longer, someone should go ahead and hammer.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Unless James is fake claiming, scum are the only one with the exception of the other PR who KNOW the setup, since doctor only appears once in each of column A and B. If they have a rolecop or roleblocker solves the setup completely for them.

No way Psyche didn't know that. Get this obvscum outta here, we can sort Nancy for sure tomorrow.

VOTE: Pysche

I'm rereading what happened at the end of Day 1 and this still sticks out as odd to me. Val, can you tell us your thought process here? You voted James shortly afterward when it looked like you picked up on Psyche's counter claim, but this vote and reasoning feels off.

Well, if scum bussed, it can only be Val because a bus wouldn’t make sense early wagon but Val was hardpushing me, so I guess that’s possible.

So, it has to be between those 3. I think you, T3 and Mo are all town.

gosh u radiate so much town energy rn

I have an extremely difficult time doing that when I getting run up, especially when certain people were completely ignoring my ISO and cherry picking and twisting things to make me look bad, so I just felt extremely defeated and almost no WIM. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm just not sure why Val would claim Doc though? Psyche already counter claimed James at that point, so why would Val claim a protective role without any pressure or reason to do so? Even in an alternate universe where Val is the real Doc, why claim?

because wouldn't val just die during the night? if im claiming already and if im getting a intuitive thought that val is telling me to shutup because they were the doc, then im obviously going to keep my claim so i can sacrifice just for the sake of doc being alive. instead of pysche dying, val would have died if they claimed.

i also claimed to bait like i said then follow up wit val's actions but now it was to bait.

wait.

there is a possibility that the setup could still be tracker + jailkeep no?

it's just mafia hit jailkeep today nd mafia can hit tracker tonight

we know there isnt a doc, because mafia would have just killed me at night before killing psyche.

Yeah, we could have a Tracker (or a Friendly Neighbor), but I wouldn't pry anymore into that. Even if no one slips they're the 2nd PR, if enough people slip that they

aren't

, scum can use PoE to find the last one. It's best not to bring it up unless necessary.

I think I understand your thought process better now though. It's a little chaotic, but I get it.

To keep setup ambiguous from scum for at least one night longer, someone should go ahead and hammer.

Bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

Unless James is fake claiming, scum are the only one with the exception of the other PR who KNOW the setup, since doctor only appears once in each of column A and B. If they have a rolecop or roleblocker solves the setup completely for them.

No way Psyche didn't know that. Get this obvscum outta here, we can sort Nancy for sure tomorrow.

VOTE: Pysche

I'm rereading what happened at the end of Day 1 and this still sticks out as odd to me. Val, can you tell us your thought process here? You voted James shortly afterward when it looked like you picked up on Psyche's counter claim, but this vote and reasoning feels off.

Well, if scum bussed, it can only be Val because a bus wouldn’t make sense early wagon but Val was hardpushing me, so I guess that’s possible.

So, it has to be between those 3. I think you, T3 and Mo are all town.

Slight hesitance on Mo still but I mostly agree, yeah. Like I said, you're basically town locked for me, and T3 looks better than he did Day 1, since he was hopping around wagons a bit but he stuck to the one that flipped red. One of the four of us are most likely to get sniped each night, but I really don't think we can lose this game. With a scum pool of three and three days left to vote out scum, as well as a potential Tracker, this should be an easy game.

Blurry was totally in favour of Mo getting limmed, so I think he’s spewed town from that.

None of you 3 make sense as his buddy but yeah, even if we get it wrong twice, scum can’t make enough NKs to get parity so scum should probably concede because I’m not voting anyone outside of Chuck/Clark/Val.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah, we could have a Tracker (or a Friendly Neighbor), but I wouldn't pry anymore into that. Even if no one slips they're the 2nd PR, if enough people slip that they aren't, scum can use PoE to find the last one. It's best not to bring it up unless necessary.

I think I understand your thought process better now though. It's a little chaotic, but I get it.

i agree. lets nothave this pr discussion anymore.

i still do believe there is scum in chuck and clark

and i still dont know why val was so paranoiac bout me having those scumreads lol

then nancy comes in and agrees wit me

i just only disagree that val should be in the votepool. i think u roden is more iffy then val.

but i just think yall r both town if that were the case

Val tried to kill me and Roden made it clear he wanted James limmed > me and James was fighting hard to survive. He was clearly not giving up.

Like it’s possible scum is just in Chuck/Clark anyway but Val did try to get me killed and Roden was commited to killing James > me. And Val was last on James wagon and I think Roden was first. I very much doubt that scum hardbussed when James was fighting so hard to survive and kill me. That makes Val far more sus than Roden imo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why aren’t I dead?

[Nancy Drew 39]

NO I THOUGHT T3 WAS TRACKER.

So did scum. Thank you for your sacrifice, T3.

rr?

That explains it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it’s probably just Clark.

It would be funny if my initial instincs sere actually correct?

I tr Lunar.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It seems clear now that we do have a Tracker, otherwise T3's death makes no sense.

just read the second part, sorry for taking ur post out of context.

but how does that tell that we have tracker?

Why else does scum kill T3 after he just got accused of being a potential deep wolf and Nancy got town locked by basically everyone? Unless scum is just trying to lead us into believing they're PR hunting...that could be a possibility actually. But even then, Nancy would've been a better kill if we're in a 2 Goon or Friendly Neighbor set up.

Not if my reads were wrong. In the game I played with Mo, scum pocketed me so well, it was inevitable I made it to Elo, so if Mo is wrong, then that’s the only thing that would make sense.

I know I’m town and I feel pretty confident Mo is as well. As far as the rest of you go, one of you could be fooling me. And I already explained why I’m pretty confident it isn’t Mo. I doubt Blurry would have said what he said about Mo if he were a buddy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry, folks. It was a busy weekend for me so I wasn't particularly active, but I read through the last few pages and I have some thoughts I want to get out there:

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

This post suggests town to me. If someone were scum, I don't know if they would be wanting to inject doubt into the primary bus this early on. It could be waffling, but to me the more likely scenario is town trying to play carefully and make sure that they aren't just getting rid of someone who is unlikeable but isn't scum.

The E-1 early on is probably a good thing, because it's the catalyst that is getting people talking (provided no quick-hammer). Without it, I'm not sure people would be talking as much this early on in the game (although I'm not super familiar with how the early games really go usually).

Thoughts on some other players:

@Psyche

Hasn't really posted anything of substance. Hopped on the wagon early (I guess technically started it, was he 2nd vote on Grandpa?) but I feel like RVS doesn't go anywhere without those first few steps. A few jokes, but nothing that can really be analyzed other than #67. Writing that, but not unvoting could be a way of distancing himself from any blame if wagon ends up lynching town. Kind of like a "see, I'm not a scum who was pushing the wagon, I had doubts about it".

@Clarkbar

Contributing more of substance than the others. I buy his reasoning for putting someone to 4 votes, as has been proven, it is a good way to provoke discussion, which gives more information to work with. I don't think there's anything I want to specifically highlight in his posts, he seems to be asking questions and sharing his thoughts, but I don't think there's anything I can see that tells me anything about his particular leanings.

One thing that did strike me was in

@T3

Similar to Psyche in that there wasn't much substance there, just hopping on the wagon and pressing it. Could be Psyche/T3 scum team (can two SEs be mafia in the same game?) but that would be kind of convenient.

@Grandpa

I don't interpret him voting for himself as scummy as you others do. If I could summarize his defense it is: nobody has built a convincing case on me yet and hammering me early cuts off any further discussion for the day, neither of which tell me anything one way or another. I'm curious to see how this develops over the course of the day.

@LunarEclipse

Self-deprecation aside, they've had one post of any substance #79. I'm not as convinced as Nancy is that this is a town-leaning post, because I think that assuming someone can't put themselves into the mindset of town just because this is their first game on this forum. I think I need to see more posts from them before I develop any ideas of leaning.

I think that covers everyone so far. For now I think keeping Grandpa as the lead contender for the guillotine is the right move, as they do have an erratic posting style that may cause confusion later in the game, but hopefully there is something more substantive to base a day 1 lynch off of in the next few days, and we haven't yet heard from the two AFK players.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I do think we need a claim here, James. You are at E-1. It looks like a damn serious wagon to me, and Nancy isn't the only one driving it.

I don't feel good about the fact most of reason you are up for the chop seems based on a single post by your predecessor, and what may well be chalked up to communication issues anyway, but that doesn't negate the fact you are up for the lim here, and I don't exactly have a townread on you myself right now. My vote isn't the only possible source for the hammer either.

The only scum case people have on me is one unclear post by my predecesor, which isn't even scum indicative it just isn't helpful, and mainly the fact there is 1 unfinished sentence. There exists an actual scum case on Nancy. I'm certain there's at least 1 scum on my wagon. T3's vote is just a prod vote as far as I can tell, so it's only E-2. I'm not worried about someone quickhammering me, I know nobody would have an explanation for it and would be policy hammered D2.

@Chuck obviously I can't tell you what Blurryx my predecesor was intending with his 1 actual post, if you ignore Blurryx's comment, can I get your opinion on my slot? It's a pain in the rear to be scum read / scum leant because of a predecesor and to not be able to do anything.

I implore both Psyche and Roden to answer this pretending the @was their name, then to ask themselves if they actually have a case against me that isn't from Blurryx being weird or unhelpful.

I wish I had been trying harder on D2 or I would have noticed this. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Erm... I am tracker.

Well congrats, you just made the Doctor get hammered. He isn't a Jailkeeper. Even if it was possible that he was telling the truth, you as a tracker should have known instantly that it could have been either, yet you somehow didn't.

It’s possible scum believed this. I don’t think Mo thinking this is weird.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Part of me dislikes the fact I've come to town read/lean both T3 and GrandpaMo...

Trannslation: I probably have to write them off as miselims.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Regarding the votes on me, one is a prod vote, Psyche's was something I unfortunately can't answer, and Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

While my predecessor did place his vote during the RVS stage, I think it was actually well placed unknowingly.
73 and 269 strikes me as rather hypocritical, it was addressed, kind of. I'm very curious why Psyche in 310 claimed he was being overeager. You agree with whom? I reread every post between 269 and 310 any a time and didn't see anyone bring up 269 nor comment on it. I honestly feel like this is a scumslip that was meant to be in the scum chat but they messed up.
As such my vote is staying here.

314 is scummy. The only reason to hide reasoning would be because you'd be outing a power role. This clearly isn't the case. You have a scum read and 2 nulls.

Nancy is null, her whole reasoning for town reading Mo is meta, that isn't valid in my eyes, most certainly not as a main justification.

My null read is

Nancy

, my scum leans are Roden and

Chuck

and my scum read is

Psyche

What do people make of this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy and Roden are town, Clark and Grandpa scum. Call me a copy cat if you like.

This is a 9 player game, so I think you have 1 too many.

[Nancy Drew 39]

if nancy is scum, they already won. and also im down to vote clark

I wish. I’m town, how are you still this terrible at reading me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Town:

lunar

val clark

psyche nancy

everyone else: everyone else.

Interesting that he’s got 3 of these correct.

[Nancy Drew 39]

if nancy is scum, they already won. and also im down to vote clark

I wish. I’m town, how are you still this terrible at reading me?

@Mo, since I’ve been hard defending you since D1, why are you the only player who’s still suspicious of me?

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is a 9 player game, so I think you have 1 too many.

I thought "there is one scum between" Clark and Grandpa went without saying, but OK.

I'm 90% sure it's Clark, but Grandpa has given me some reasons to think he might be scum in this game. That appears to be his superpower, though, even as town.

The pool yesterday was {Val, Clark, Chuck}. If we don't flip right today, the NK is 100% either Nancy or Roden; they aren't going to kill me or Clark when we have such suspicion on us.

I would rather flip ClarkBar today over myself obviously, but if Nancy is adamant that Grandpa is town and is happy to bet the game on it, then I would rather you limmed me today so I'm not alive in the LyLo; as long as Clark is going tomorrow for the gg's.

VOTE: ClarkBar

I still think he is but you would also think that he would be the least likely to be suspicious of me. That’s what’s concerning me, because I’ve been defending him, so it’s starting to worry me a bit.

[Nancy Drew 39]

if nancy is scum, they already won. and also im down to vote clark

I wish. I’m town, how are you still this terrible at reading me?

if nancy is scum, they already won. and also im down to vote clark

I wish. I’m town, how are you still this terrible at reading me?

@Mo, since I’ve been hard defending you since D1, why are you the only player who’s still suspicious of me?

you arent confirmed nor anyone is. soloscum is alive and it can be anyone atp.

you aren't cleared just because of x and x no one is.

thats why im epxloring every possible choice right now.

and like i said if you are scum, then gg you win because roden, clark, and val won't vote you so it would be impossible for me to even try to build a scumcase on you because it would be no point.

just because you defended me is also no reason for me to townread you. you could obviously be pocketing me here.


just like how james did.

thats why im paranoid.

James was also clearly trying to kill me but you make a good point. It’s probably not you then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

T3 being the NK last night seems very, very odd to me.

So what does the choice tell you? Who has constantly been discussing PR's, been confused by claims, and came into today under the impression that T3 was a tracker? Whose choices have been erratic and unconventional? Val, your question here is may be you as scum gloating a bit. I have heard that surprise/puzzlement over a NK is a mild scumtell, but I don't think this is the case in this instance. I've been wrong all game, so who knows.

Screw this. Yes, 131 is compelling but I have to go with my gut here. My vote on Val is pure PoE. The mountain of scummy stuff from Grandpa overwhelms what Blurry said on page 6.

UNVOTE: Val89

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Since when is surprise/puzzlement over an NK a scumtell? It’s usually town indicative at best and NAI at worst.

[Nancy Drew 39]

T3 being the NK last night seems very, very odd to me.

It seems like they did us a favour in eliminating someone I might well have been worried about today.

The "deep dive" I said I was doing at the start of D2 was looking at the newbie games T3 had played in, and looked at where he had fake claimed. He's played 8 completed games, 4 of which were scum, and he faked crumbed/fakeclaimed in 3 of the 4. As town, he never crumbed before (at least none that I saw or were discussed) even when he did roll PR (2057, and 2063 where his Mason partner did the job for him); so if both me and T3 had survived, I would be giving serious consideration to making a case we should be considering T3 as scum today. I can't get my head around why they thought that was the right kill.

T3 was my most confident tr and I thought that even before James flipped.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was saying at that time that you weren't 100 percent sure. So you must have had a back thought that he was town MAYBE for x and x, that means you had a backup scumread just in case they were town. correct?

634 may be helpful for you. Yes, I had a back thought that he was town. No, I didn't have a backup scumread. It was the beginning of the day and Chuck had the most points against him (in my view) for me to explore.

because that's usually how it is for me when I am not 100 percent sure on my scumread, I explore the thought that person could be town and explore why this person is town and that makes x scum etc.

Of course. My chief issues with Chuck was the lack of a vote despite having scumreads as well as the nature of his scumreads. Why was that a problem that made me not be 100% sure Chuck was scum? There wasn't much time for him to finish his reads before D1 ended. However, with the absence of much else for me to work with that left me pursuing Chuck as a start to D2. I did not anticipate his elimination coming in just 4 pages or so.

I did not expect the day to end so early.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Since when is surprise/puzzlement over an NK a scumtell? It’s usually town indicative at best and NAI at worst.

I recall it being used against somebody (maybe me!) by an SE after a puzzling NK. I think there was a term for the tell and maybe a wiki that was linked about it. I kinda agree with you about how strong a tell it is, but it stuck in my mind.

In Cards Of Destiny, scum!FL knew exactly why town!Pooky was the NK’d and a townie that I wrongly had suspicions on had no clue. I think it’s nai.

[Nancy Drew 39]

T3 being the NK last night seems very, very odd to me.

So what does the choice tell you? Who has constantly been discussing PR's, been confused by claims, and came into today under the impression that T3 was a tracker? Whose choices have been erratic and unconventional? Val, your question here is may be you as scum gloating a bit. I have heard that surprise/puzzlement over a NK is a mild scumtell, but I don't think this is the case in this instance. I've been wrong all game, so who knows.

Screw this. Yes, 131 is compelling but I have to go with my gut here. My vote on Val is pure PoE. The mountain of scummy stuff from Grandpa overwhelms what Blurry said on page 6.

UNVOTE: Val89

VOTE: GrandpaMo

Okay now you are just guilttripping / manipulating context. You are putting Val's words into your thought process and being influenced.

I think Roden becomes likely town here.

And last scum lies between Val / Clark.

One of them is just misguided.

I agree with this. If you recall, I had T3, you and Roden as likely town.

Roden was adamant about James and not me being the lim, where as Val first wanted to kill me, then Psyche and Clark was pretty much not doing much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

i dont wanna go to a f3 tho, this f3 is scary

me, val, clark in a f3, instant loss for town and scum easily wins of whomever is scum between val and clark

heck even nancy staying alive in a f3, would be very worrisome of its own.

roden, idek if ur town but i believe if ur scum, then you won as well so gg

Nightmare scenario, because I honestly don’t know who I’d vote between Val and Clark. So if both Val and Clark vote you, it could possibly be that whichever one is scum wants the other in elo?

My working theory rn, is that scum only wants one of you, Roden, me in Elo. Me or Roden are probably the NK. I think if you get limmee today, we’re probably looking at either a Clark/Val/Roden F3 or a Clark/Val/me with Clark ahd Val most likely trying to push the other.

Rn, I’m leaning to it being Clark > Val but having both in Elo with either Roden or me, is I think the best case scenario for scum winning this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Maybe it is Val then? I thought Clark wanted to keep Val in Elo but if not, then I could be wrong?

If it is between those two and I lean to that, then whichever one is scum needs the other one in elo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

thats why we lim between clark and val..?

No; she is suggested we Lim you and leave Clark and Me alive for D3; trusting whomever of her or Roden survives can correctly sort the scum between Me and Clark.

How did you take that to mean she was suggested we lim of of us?

No, that is the exact opposite of what I said.

[Nancy Drew 39]

thats why we lim between clark and val..?

No; she is suggested we Lim you and leave Clark and Me alive for D3; trusting whomever of her or Roden survives can correctly sort the scum between Me and Clark.

How did you take that to mean she was suggested we lim of of us?

No, that is the exact opposite of what I said.

Mo read me correctly. I don’t know how you possibly got this from what I said?

I’m leaning you > Clark now due to that misrep.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let’s not rush this please.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, the only ELO I don't really want is Grandpa/Me with you alive; because I worry the spat we had D1 would influence your decision.

With that in mind, even though I think ClarkBar is the likley candidate, me or Grandpa should go today.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grandpa

If you think Clark is the likeliest candidate for scum, then why vote Mo?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, the only ELO I don't really want is Grandpa/Me with you alive; because I worry the spat we had D1 would influence your decision.

With that in mind, even though I think ClarkBar is the likley candidate, me or Grandpa should go today.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Grandpa

What makes you so confident that I would be in elo and not Roden?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Since the game's just slowing to a crawl here, can I ask everyone to give an updated reads list?

Nancy and Val are my current town reads, while Clark and Grandpa are my scum reads. I can explain this in further detail but I don't want to influence scum's reads, so I'll go into detail once everyone else posts.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't want to lim Clark today on the chance it is scum!Grandpa; because if it is, he kills Roden tonight, and you lim me tomorrow; and that's his path to victory.

If I was sure it would be GG once Clark flipped, I wouldn't care, but I'm not 100% sure at all, particulary since T3 died.

What makes you so confident that I would be in elo and not Roden?

Because Roden is town reading me. Why would scum take me to ELO with someone who is townreading me?

I don’t want to be in elo. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

I know you don't want to be, but If I am left alive, you are, 100%.

There is no way scum takes Roden into the Elo with me alive tomorrow when he is townreading me, because that is sucide.

If hypothetically I die, then what would your reads be? I mean it’s possible. If hypothetically Mo is scum, couldn’t he possibly kill me for the wifom?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Between Roden, Me, and either (grandpa, clark)?

It would be GG, because me and Roden would vote whomever we don't flip of {Grandpa, Clark}. Thats why that's never going to happen; scum know its GG, WIFOM or not.

You and Roden are 100% Locktown to me now. Maybe there is some outside posibility Grandpa or Clark convince Roden to lim me, but given his reads today, would you bet the game on that if you were scum?

Probably not although I could possibly a Radiant Cowbells possibly doing that and using that exact same argument.

But yeah, Roden isn’t tr Clark.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Clarkbar

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

I think Clark’s play makes the most sense as a buddy.

So spiritually my vote is on Clark.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: Clarkbar

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

I think Clark’s play makes the most sense as a buddy.

So spiritually my vote is on Clark.

so r u saying u wanna vote clark?

I think he’s most likely to be scum.

You’re theory on VaL/Clark would only really make sense if we hadn’t already flipped James, because only one can be scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

Why do you sr Val > Clark?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I must have missed your explanation for this, I apologize. Why are you almost entirely certain Val is town?

So I'm really torn between Val and Grandpa, as my voting and posting demonstrates. I think that you should all just eliminate me. I'm widely scumread (not sure why) and that's cool. I'll be an issue going forward, and it feels like arguments are going in circles at this point. Plus I'm just vanilla, so no harm no foul. Obviously it would be preferable to get scum today, but Grandpa has 131 going for him, Val has Roden's (almost) certainty that he is town, and I have nothing. I think my play and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor, but that is apparently just me.

I won't vote for myself out of principle, but beyond that I don't think I have anything left to say.

Either Clark is brilliant here or he’s actually telling the truth.

@Mo, can you please give us some reads. You’re the only one who is taking the attitude that everyone but you is equally likely to be scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I must have missed your explanation for this, I apologize. Why are you almost entirely certain Val is town?

So I'm really torn between Val and Grandpa, as my voting and posting demonstrates. I think that you should all just eliminate me. I'm widely scumread (not sure why) and that's cool. I'll be an issue going forward, and it feels like arguments are going in circles at this point. Plus I'm just vanilla, so no harm no foul. Obviously it would be preferable to get scum today, but Grandpa has 131 going for him, Val has Roden's (almost) certainty that he is town, and I have nothing. I think my play and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor, but that is apparently just me.

I won't vote for myself out of principle, but beyond that I don't think I have anything left to say.

Either Clark is brilliant here or he’s actually telling the truth.

@Mo, can you please give us some reads. You’re the only one who is taking the attitude that everyone but you is equally likely to be scum.

I already have.

I already pointed out that every avenue that you all could be scum.

I had roden and clark as the poe, but I gave up pushing that narrative because both Clark and Val and you nancy decided to townread Roden same with Nancy, so if you both are scum either or, then GG you probably won the game. And I was townreading Val already AT THAT TIME because of meta, and how they were playing the exact same way where they townread me, then pivot onto a scumread just out of paranoia, that's what happened in the other game and we both flipped town.

But throught the non scum reads on roden and nancy, that forced me to have a poe on Clark and Val and everyone was saying poe of Clark and Val and not roden

That made me reread the game, I think that it is either or and that both have the same liable scum equity in each slot, so if Clark flipped town, Val was to be scum and vice versa.

Yes, of course from your pov anyone could be but that stance isn’t helpful and not pro-town. Everyone else seems to be taking a stand here, especially Roden, so I don’t understand why scum!Roden locktowns 2 slots in Elo.

So are you now removing Roden and me from your PoE?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both Val and Clark seem so townie and Roden townlocking 2 slots is scum suicide. I’m really starting to think it could be Mo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

that wasn't my original point. i misinterperted what roden was originally saying and i had thought that if i scumread either or then i would still be a scumread -- so thats why i had made it a problem.

my point was that it didnt matter for me to vote, because i thought there was at least ONE scum between val and clark.

idgaf if i get scumread, heck i careless that im being scumread by roden the most, im more focusing on the weird unvote and votes happening from both of clark and val.

both are playing lamist playstyles and one is just misguided town

Can you give us a readslist? You are the only one necessary to ask this because I’m still not completely sure where you stand.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both Val and Clark seem so townie and Roden townlocking 2 slots is scum suicide. I’m really starting to think it could be Mo.

thats why im having paranoia about roden being scum.

or you possibly pocketing me, then doing this weird flip shit where you scumread me towards eod after townreading me all game, same thing that val did.

you should have thought it was me since day 1 -- and not rely on meta because i am town.

you should be able to townread me based on this game if i was town in ur eyes or scum if i was scum in ur eyes.

i hate when ppl start having this instant pocketing shit then proceed to scumread out of no where.

why do you think i explored the options that YOU or roden could be scum, while not just relying on me, val, clark being scum.

i was the only one to push that narrative where you could be scum, and you even agree with me. i can just easily just set up a chain lim on val today and push clark tmr, or vice versa as scum. i dont see the point for me as scum, to push the narrative that it possibly could be roden when the attention focus is on clark, val, and me and while those 2 INCLUDING U NANCY townreading nancy, i dont think i would take that risk as solo scum.

That is not true, you were sussing on me while I was still hard defending you and I made it clear why: You seem to be the only one who hasn’t made definitive reads. Having everyone in your PoE, based on no one being confitown, looks pretty bad, especially since you’re literally the only one doing that.

Why does scum!Roden townlock both me and Val? If he’s scum, he can presumably only kill one of us and that puts scum!him at a serious disadvantage in Elo.

You can’t give me oh it’s so scummy you’re doubting me when your read on me is the exact same when I was strongly tr you. James was clearly trying to kill me to survive and everyone but you - including Chuck could see that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

that wasn't my original point. i misinterperted what roden was originally saying and i had thought that if i scumread either or then i would still be a scumread -- so thats why i had made it a problem.

my point was that it didnt matter for me to vote, because i thought there was at least ONE scum between val and clark.

idgaf if i get scumread, heck i careless that im being scumread by roden the most, im more focusing on the weird unvote and votes happening from both of clark and val.

both are playing lamist playstyles and one is just misguided town

Can you give us a readslist? You are the only one necessary to ask this because I’m still not completely sure where you stand.

Are you serious? I already explained where I stand about 5 times now, and it is starting to get frustrating.

Again if you recall and read my posts with the reasonings I post, it should imply that my readlist should similarly look like this.

Clark

Val

Roden

Nancy

Again I will repeat.

At first, I had Roden and Clark as scum in between.

Then I realized that Val, Clark, and Nancy all townread Roden

So I moved the poe to scum between Val and Clark because of Associative.

And so that would make Roden hard null - implied town if there is scum between Val and Clark

Same with Nancy.

Then realized that there would be NO way for an Roden/Nancy elim to happen on this day so no point to push that narrative this day.

What does blue mean? You have me in blue?

Yes, it’s posts like these that are giving me the willies. The fact that no one but you is pushing for this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your readslist isn’t based off so much on who you read but on who you think is likeliest to be elimmed. That’s an ELIMINATION list not a readslist.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

that wasn't my original point. i misinterperted what roden was originally saying and i had thought that if i scumread either or then i would still be a scumread -- so thats why i had made it a problem.

my point was that it didnt matter for me to vote, because i thought there was at least ONE scum between val and clark.

idgaf if i get scumread, heck i careless that im being scumread by roden the most, im more focusing on the weird unvote and votes happening from both of clark and val.

both are playing lamist playstyles and one is just misguided town

Can you give us a readslist? You are the only one necessary to ask this because I’m still not completely sure where you stand.

Are you serious? I already explained where I stand about 5 times now, and it is starting to get frustrating.

Again if you recall and read my posts with the reasonings I post, it should imply that my readlist should similarly look like this.

Clark

Val

Roden

Nancy

Again I will repeat.

At first, I had Roden and Clark as scum in between.

Then I realized that Val, Clark, and Nancy all townread Roden

So I moved the poe to scum between Val and Clark because of Associative.

And so that would make Roden hard null - implied town if there is scum between Val and Clark

Same with Nancy.

Then realized that there would be NO way for an Roden/Nancy elim to happen on this day so no point to push that narrative this day.

This post doesn’t even make sense. If there is actual scum between Clark and Val, in what universe is Roden a null?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Then realized that there would be NO way for an Roden/Nancy elim to happen on this day so no point to push that narrative this day.

Again, Grandpa, this is so scummy it hurts!

If you are town, and you believe scum is in Roden or Nancy, you push them; because the only way we win is for scum to be voted out.

If you truely believe scum is in Roden or Nancy, psuh them, and push them hard, even if you are only one doing it, because your faction winning DEPENDS on you - you are the only one seeing the truth, and if you sit quiet, town loss this game.

Scum on the other hand: the way scum wins this game is to get two town lims. Thats the victory path. So, yeah, scum can decide they aren't gettting a Nancy/Roden lim, and decide they have to go for Clark + Val, in either order; but town!Grandpa CAN NOT have this attitude, so if you are town!Grandpa - wise up.

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

Scum!Roden killing me and townocking Val puts scum!him at a serious disadvantage. Recall Hopkirk said I was “probably” town going into elo, then of course he lied about townlocking me right out of the gate.

[Nancy Drew 39]

You just said it in 901! - "no point pushing that narrative this day"....

@Mo, if Val and Clark were hypothetically onboard with either a Roden or me elim, would you vote whichever one of us that was today, > Clark or Val?

[Nancy Drew 39]

a, there is 100% NOT a reason not to scumread Roden today if you think he is scum, none what-so-ever.

do u want me to give a scumcase on roden???

because i will if that helps you evaulate me???

Your focus should obviously be on Roden in that case, don’t you think? but if you honestly think it’s Roden. why are you voting Clark?

[Nancy Drew 39]

a, there is 100% NOT a reason not to scumread Roden today if you think he is scum, none what-so-ever.

do u want me to give a scumcase on roden???

because i will if that helps you evaulate me???

Your focus should obviously be on Roden in that case, don’t you think? but if you honestly think it’s Roden. why are you voting Clark?

no.

i scumread clark.

Why 901 then? About me and Roden being unlimable today? I just don’t understand why you’d even say that then?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nope, I’m just plain old vt and I really think it’s Mo. Clark is doing one helluva job if he’s actually scum but I don’t think so.

VOTE: Grandpa Mo

Hopefully we won’t need to worry about Elo and the game ends with this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So the game is essentially over. Vote me or Grandpa, doesn't matter. Vote Grandpa though for a quicker resolution.

I was tr Mo until today but pretty much everything he’s posted since daystart screams scum to me and your posting has been really townie.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Val89 was killed in the night. He was a:

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

Day 4 begins and will last (expired on 2021-07-20 22:57:17).

Official Vote Count 4.00

Concorde

---

Elimination

Not Voting

(3): Val89, Roden, Nancy Drew 39

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-20 22:57:17).

Mod notes:

With 3 alive, it takes 2 votes to achieve an elimination.

@mod, I think this must be a mistake.

Thanks, fixed - M

[Nancy Drew 39]

Should go without saying, but I didn't get a result last night. The NK was also what was expected.

Clark, unless you have a crazy strong case against Nancy, I don't see how you're not the last scum. I'm not auto-voting you because it's possible you do have a case against her, but I'll be honest, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

Why not?

If Clark were to actually do that, it’d be game over because then I would know for certain he was scum. Unfortunately for me, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. :/

Whichever one of you two is the last scum, I officially hate you for doing this to mr.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Roden, why are you auto-assuming Clark would sus me > you? I find that curious.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why didn’t you get a result last night? How is that even possible?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why didn’t you get a result last night? How is that even possible?

Roleblocker. Jailer + Tracker means one of the scum has to be a Roleblocker, and in Newbie games they can kill and use their PR at the same time.

@Roden, why are you auto-assuming Clark would sus me > you? I find that curious.

Because everyone seemed to agree yesterday that I was telling the truth, and I know for myself that I am town. I'm fairly certain I can prove it too.

Should go without saying, but I didn't get a result last night. The NK was also what was expected.

Clark, unless you have a crazy strong case against Nancy, I don't see how you're not the last scum. I'm not auto-voting you because it's possible you do have a case against her, but I'll be honest, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

Why not?

If Clark were to actually do that, it’d be game over because then I would know for certain he was scum. Unfortunately for me, I very much doubt that’s going to happen. :/

Whichever one of you two is the last scum, I officially hate you for doing this to mr.

It would be dumb for me to auto-vote before even letting people talk. I've town read you for most of the game which is why I'm telling Clark he better have a case, because I don't really have one for you at all. But it's like, maybe a 5% chance you're a deep wolf, and I don't want to give you the quick hammer one post into Day 1 on the off chance you are scum. I'd get flamed so hard for that lol.

I know it’s 100% not me and I’m not assuming anything until I’ve heard from both of you because I don’t want the dead thread yelling at me if I guess wrong.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why didn’t you get a result last night? How is that even possible?

Unless I'm going crazy we are in either A2 or C2.
If we are in A2 then you are the mafia role-blocker and you blocked Roden.
If we are in C2 then Roden took a risk and falsely claimed tracker.

Either way he is going to get "no result" because you role-blocked him, or he is going to say that he got "no-result" to imply that you role-blocked him. I feel like considering your experience you should know this? This is off to me.

No, I absolutely told the truth yesterday. I am a vt.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Because everyone seemed to agree yesterday that I was telling the truth, and I know for myself that I am town. I'm fairly certain I can prove it too.

You can

prove

it? What better time than now to give that a shot?

Ok, I read a bunch. Nothing earth-shattering.

If

Roden is scum he got on the Blurry/James wagon nice and early when his partner wasn't really posting and had only Psyche pushing him. When James replaced in no other viable wagon was emerging, so if you're gonna bus then that's a pretty good situation to do it in. Sit back and enjoy the ride while having a luxurious spot on the wagon.

If

Nancy bussed she got on a little later to give the E-1 vote. It was an OMGUS vote after James voted her for relying on meta. Then they have their back and forth. The question is: when it became difficult to steer the James wagon somewhere else did they plan and execute a bit of (very good) theater in order to give Nancy the town-crew she has so enjoyed? If this is the case I think it worked to have the vote from Nancy to be semi-OMGUS as it promotes a heated back and forth. Again, good theater.

That's kinda a coin flip for me, but I have to give the edge to Roden for continually championing Psyche's original argument early and often. Additionally I think I'm leaning to believing Roden's claim. For Roden to be lying he would have had to begun his breadcrumbing in 850 and 858. Could scum just as easily do this as town? I suppose, but it's an early risk for Roden to take when there was no pressure on him. And as I said earlier we are in one of 2 setups. Scum!Roden would have had a 50/50 chance at not being CC'd by Nancy or myself when he claimed. This is a risk I am unsure they needed to take to end D3, Grandpa was scumming it up and I was just behind him on the chopping block.

Ok, that was likely all for not, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I would just vote for Nancy here, but I'd like to see rebuttals etc.

If you’re the townie here and you vote me, town will lose because I didn’t understand why Roden if town tracker wouldn’t just get an inno on me or a guilty on you.

I would think that any intelligent scum who wasn’t Roden would just no kill.

Anyway it’s 100% not me and I hope whichever one of you is the townie here, will realize that there is no way that James wasn’t trying to kill me to survive.

I was wondering why T3 died instead of either me or Roden and how this final 3 is even possible.

So, I can’t tell you what to do but if you’re the townie and you vote me, we will lose. Good luck.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Roden, who did you track, Clark or me? You never answered my question.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really really didn’t want to be in elo because I didn’t want to be in this position where I would make the wrong decision. Instead I now think that based on Clark’s post, if he is town, then I might actually be the game losing miselim here for the second time now. The first time was on MU and there was actually a confirmed mason in that who wrongly instavoted me before I even had a chance to vote or even make a single post, so I thank the townie here for not doing that and throwing the game.

I know I am town and I just have to hope to God, I can make the other townie realize that it 100% isn’t me. I will not instavote no matter what because I absolutely want to make the right decision here but if the townie votes me, we will auto lose, so please don’t do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Roden, who did you track, Clark or me? You never answered my question.

I tried to track Clark, it didn't really matter who I chose though because I was always going to be Roleblocked. I explained that here:

Why didn’t you get a result last night? How is that even possible?

Roleblocker. Jailer + Tracker means one of the scum has to be a Roleblocker, and in Newbie games they can kill and use their PR at the same time.

Why do you think T3 died > either of us? After James tried to kill me, I fully expected to wake up to a “you have died” pm. I still don’t understand why this didn’t happen.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Clark, I told you I was fucking town? Why tf didn’t you listen?

I thought it was Roden but wasn’t sure but I at least thought you wouldn’t rush this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really really didn’t want to be in elo because I didn’t want to be in this position where I would make the wrong decision. Instead I now think that based on Clark’s post, if he is town, then I might actually be the game losing miselim here for the second time now. The first time was on MU and there was actually a confirmed mason in that who wrongly instavoted me before I even had a chance to vote or even make a single post, so I thank the townie here for not doing that and throwing the game.

I know I am town and I just have to hope to God, I can make the other townie realize that it 100% isn’t me. I will not instavote no matter what because I absolutely want to make the right decision here but if the townie votes me, we will auto lose, so please don’t do that.

@Clark, why did you ignore this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t think it was Clark and didn’t obviously didn’t want to vote him because I was afraid of what happened would happen.

If I had voted Roden, I figured Clark would for sure vote me, so I was hoping that he would see my sincere desire to sort things out meant I had to be the townie here. Like it was beyond obvious, I don’t do that if scum. My God!

If I was scum here, I pocket Roden and push Clark. How could you seriously not realize that? @Clark

I also never ever kill T3 here because if I’m scum, I 100% want him in elo with me.

Oh well, at least this isn’t on my head. I still “hate” you Rodin for dragging me to elo. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Official Vote Count 4.01

De Havilland Dragon Rapide

---

Elimination

Nancy Drew 39

(2): Clark Bar, Roden

Not Voting

(1): Nancy Drew 39

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-20 22:57:17).

Mod notes:

An elimination has been achieved

5 days! We had 5 days, why did you rush this?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry Clark, I didn’t mean to be so hard on you but if you had just not rushed this, we might possibly have won.

Gg Roden, James. First time on this site I have been miselimed on my main.

[Nancy Drew 39]

GG everyone! I had fun, though this ELo had my heart racing the whole time haha. A part of me felt bad Day 3 when people started begging to be NK'd too, I know this was a a tough ELo.

I still am seriously upset with you for not NKing me and subjecting me to this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

GG everyone! I had fun, though this ELo had my heart racing the whole time haha. A part of me felt bad Day 3 when people started begging to be NK'd too, I know this was a a tough ELo.

I still am seriously upset with you for not NKing me and subjecting me to this.

Sorry, I had to bring you. We both looked pretty equally town over the James elim, and I needed to make sure me surviving to ELo was justified. It was rightfully pointed out if I took Val to end game, it would've been a obvious pocket, and one of Clark/Grandpa had to come to end game since they had suspicions on them.

Well you could have claimed the fake inno on me but whatever. I’m probably over reacting because I’ve had an extremely shitty day in general.

Maybe I would have been the D2 miselim had Blurry not repped out.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Gg thanks for modding Marashu.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry Clark, I didn’t mean to be so hard on you but if you had just not rushed this, we might possibly have won.

Gg Roden, James. First time on this site I have been miselimed on my main.

Honestly if you had a strong rebuttal to the points I made about why I leaned Roden over you as town I wish you would have made them. I felt your responses to my posts were along the lines of "please don't I'm town" which is not as compelling as an uncontested and totally plausible PR claim. Roden was right to paint them as a little AtE. I'm sorry you feel I rushed it.

I could have had you actually took what I said seriously and not rushed your vote. That’s why town should never be the first vote in Elo unless you yourself have an actual guilty.

Had you had patience, Roden would probably have eventually voted for either of us. If you, I would have then obvtowned by not instavoting you but you made it super easy for him.

I thought it was him but the rb thing made me unsure and I wanted to get more info. Let this be a lesson to you, never ever rush a 3 player elo like this ever again, if you don’t want history repeating itself.

For my part, I wish we had limmed you > Mo because Mo was the only one who correctly suspected Roden and we might possibly had won had he been in elo instead of you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: Newbie 2070 Dead Thread

Still too early to call it.

I think it largely hinges on whether town takes its time or whether they rush to the end.

@Clark

[Nancy Drew 39]

damn i was fucking right. roden fearpushed me lets go.

nancy's last minute paranoia came thru to help

me having open perspectives on everything is a towntell btw

<3

Sorry I voted you, we might have won with Clark elim. :/

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, I'm sorry I made the wrong pick, but you don't need to be so toxic. None of the posts you made at the end led me to believe I was going to get anything from you other than you just telling me you were town and saying that any suspicion from me towards you would confirm me as scum in your eyes. What do you want me to do with that? You scum-read me over Roden and Roden "scum-read" me over you. I felt you were doing nothing to sort, just whining about being miseliminated again and asking meaningless questions that had obvious answers.

Maybe getting into fights with anyone who disagrees with you, quoting entire posts, and getting mad about people not diving into your meta while also referring to a game but not letting people read it is a problem. I am the most obvious person to blame for the outcome of this game and I've owned that. You continually throwing shit at me for it is childish and it is behavior like yours that can make this game unpleasant. I will be sure to request replacement from any game I may be in with you going forward.

I vehemently disagree. I am not being either “childish” nor “toxic”. I get that you’ve owned up to your mistake which is of course good. What I take issue with is you’re blaming me for the outcome when I expressly beseeched you not to rush the vote and you ignored it. That was a horrible decision on your part and instead of throwing insults at me, you should just own up to that, which is all I’m asking. Had you done, that, I would have long ago dropped it,

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry Clark, I didn’t mean to be so hard on you but if you had just not rushed this, we might possibly have won.

Gg Roden, James. First time on this site I have been miselimed on my main.

Honestly if you had a strong rebuttal to the points I made about why I leaned Roden over you as town I wish you would have made them. I felt your responses to my posts were along the lines of "please don't I'm town" which is not as compelling as an uncontested and totally plausible PR claim. Roden was right to paint them as a little AtE. I'm sorry you feel I rushed it.

This is why I didn’t back off. The fact is had you not rushed the vote, this could have happened, You never gave me adequate time, so my point stands.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Clark, I’m over it and honestly bear you no ill will but you’re going to start throwing out unfair and unwarranted insults towards me, I will defend myself as I would expect you or anyone else would. What did I honestly do to invite insults such as “toxic” and “childish” from you? You unfairly blamed me for my miselim and I argued against it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that,