Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

[JamesTheNames]

Hi.

[JamesTheNames]

Hi.

hi james am i playing better than our last game uwu

Good question but I'm not answering it until after the game ends. I'm not letting meta influence it, I don't like meta, I don't think the game could be enjoyable at all if you rely on meta.

[JamesTheNames]

Regarding the votes on me, one is a prod vote, Psyche's was something I unfortunately can't answer, and Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

While my predecessor did place his vote during the RVS stage, I think it was actually well placed unknowingly.
73 and 269 strikes me as rather hypocritical, it was addressed, kind of. I'm very curious why Psyche in 310 claimed he was being overeager. You agree with whom? I reread every post between 269 and 310 any a time and didn't see anyone bring up 269 nor comment on it. I honestly feel like this is a scumslip that was meant to be in the scum chat but they messed up.
As such my vote is staying here.

314 is scummy. The only reason to hide reasoning would be because you'd be outing a power role. This clearly isn't the case. You have a scum read and 2 nulls.

Nancy is null, her whole reasoning for town reading Mo is meta, that isn't valid in my eyes, most certainly not as a main justification.

My null read is Nancy, my scum leans are Roden and Chuck, and my scum read is Psyche.

[JamesTheNames]

Regarding Roden post 236 is what makes me think he should have / would have voted Nancy.

[JamesTheNames]

Another thing which flagged my about Psyche, and this really doesn't fly with me, in 162 he asked T3 to explain and elaborate on 118 and 120. As far as I can tell, this never occured, and I was wondering why Psyche never pressed for an explanation. His 151 really propels an issue into my mind, he wants fewer people to not vote, I agree this is town sided.

"if every player just sits on the sidelines until someone makes some clear scumslip this could be as far as we get contentwise to do the bare minimum to keep the game flowing, just figure out your best hunch for who's scum, try to articulate as clear a reason why as you can, and lay down a vote to show you mean it it's a wagon not a marriage after all (until someone hammers)"

So why didn't he keep pressing T3, he wanted an explanation since 124 and he never got it, so why didn't he press for more. It feels to me like he posts big posts with varying levels of substance then expects everyone else to do the dirty work. His reason for town reading Mo is disingenuous in my eyes, his comments on ClarkBar, Lunarrest and Nancy in 162 are also just fluff.
His only real comment on Nancy was that having an ick is less terse, "Hmm overall nancy's posting is too terse for me to get a sound read off her despite her steady flow of content. But the stuff in her iso that seems useful for sorting gives off town smells." Which bits? The quotes you supplied don't give off town smells they're null in my eyes so I wouldn't mind an explanation.
His comment on Lunarrest was just for the sake of a comment.
His read on Clark, he agrees with me, and plays well, therefore town. Agreeing on its own doesn't make somebody town, also playing well doesn't make somebody town.

3 bad quality airplane/flying puns incase my Predecessor reads the game again.

[JamesTheNames]

Nod to my last game but before GrandpaMo scum reads me for being inactive. @Mo as of sending this I am going to sleep.

[JamesTheNames]

hi marashu!
i'm voting blurryx!

Thanks, fixed - M

everyone should be voting blurryx. i even think that should be the lynch for today!

@James, how are you getting this post was meant for scum chat? He’s talking about votes.

Unless this is the wrong post because this is what I got when I clicked that link?

310

[JamesTheNames]

Regarding the votes on me, one is a prod vote, Psyche's was something I unfortunately can't answer, and Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

While my predecessor did place his vote during the RVS stage, I think it was actually well placed unknowingly.
73 and 269 strikes me as rather hypocritical, it was addressed, kind of. I'm very curious why Psyche in 310 claimed he was being overeager. You agree with whom? I reread every post between 269 and 310 any a time and didn't see anyone bring up 269 nor comment on it. I honestly feel like this is a scumslip that was meant to be in the scum chat but they messed up.
As such my vote is staying here.

314 is scummy. The only reason to hide reasoning would be because you'd be outing a power role. This clearly isn't the case. You have a scum read and 2 nulls.

Nancy is null, her whole reasoning for town reading Mo is meta, that isn't valid in my eyes, most certainly not as a main justification.

My null read is Nancy, my scum leans are Roden and Chuck, and my scum read is Psyche.

Why no townreads?

Not to make it too obvious but everyone else is town lean or town read. By process of elimination of them not being mentioned as Null or Scum.

[JamesTheNames]

I can't even just be stubborn about this, I genuinely didn't see that one line by Val89, or at least didn't process it. This is why you sleep when it hits 2am... my apologies Psyche.

[JamesTheNames]

Roden seems suspicious.
233 feels like he null reads Blurryx here, 258 feels like he scum reads here. I just find it strange how he appears to have a case on Nancy, but when it doesn't cause a wagon he jumps onto Blurryx's. Scum lean.

Sorry James, I'm not seeing this one. Roden replaced in and was obviously skimming the thread and posting initial thoughts. 233 reads as the "this pings me" stage, and 258 is "yeah, I've finished going through the read and I come down on the scum side with Blurry". Going from a null read to a scum read is the natural progression, and I see no reason to be suspicious in it. You might be a little sensitive given that the target is your slot, but I would give it a re-read today and see if you still feel the same thing.

Before you replaced in, I was very lightly scumreading your slot, based almost entirely on the confused reads your predecessor gave us on T3 and Grandpa. I don't think it's fair to read your slot based on what might have been a communication thing, so I'm resetting that read to null, but could you give us your reasoning for TR/TL'ing those two if that is what you are doing?

Regarding Roden post 236 is what makes me think he should have / would have voted Nancy.

This is what made me think he'd vote Nancy. Also 270 is what really makes me feel like he was just waiting to jump on a wagon.
"Now we're talking!" when the only change is someone trying to form a wagon on Blurryx.

[JamesTheNames]

Why did I decide it'd be a good idea to ISO Nancy, only just realising there's a person who posts more than Mo...

[JamesTheNames]

I don't know how to do those fancy things with the boxes so I'll just do what I normally do.
Summarising all of Nancy's posts:
31, 34, 35, 59 and 60 are all just RVS fluff. (60 because I think at the time people thought 37 was ungenuine/RVS-y, I do anyway).
61 never self vote as town I agree.
62 meta nonsense starts...
74, 75, 76 are all fluff. Why are 74 and 75 fluff? She never explained any of them.
83 early team assumptions or bussing implications are fine.
85 exists. I can't speak for Mo but I'm pretty sure 41 isn't genuine.
87 and 88 are explaining to Lunar and town reading Lunar.
102, 103, 106, 112, 117
140 and 146 making out Psyche is scum from her eyes, but redacts it in 190
183, 184, 185 and 188 bickering with Psyche over voting vs not voting.
187 so because T3 joined the wagon early he's town?
196 to 305 spam defense vs Val89, and meta nonsense.
The rest don't harbour much if any AI information.

Someone from my last game did this and it looked useful so I wanted to try it.
There are some of these I want to go further in depth into so I will.

[JamesTheNames]

Nancy claims that, at a point in time, there was at least 1 scum on GrandpaMo's wagon. At that point in time, Lunarrest, ClarkBar, Psyche and T3 were all on or hovering about the Wagon. In the same post she claims its neither ClarkBar nor Lunarrest. Meaning T3 or Psyche. Her next post implies she thinks T3 is a town lean, she also said "Psyche’s probably town.", so if the scum were to be Psyche here in her eyes, it changed after 190 Basically I just think what she said was fluff to claim she has ideas of who is scum and who isn't.

While having an alt and keeping it to yourself isn't scummy, hiding information from town is when the information benefits town. I also think meta reliance, not meta as a guideline but meta reliance, is inherently scummy, it just provides fake reasoning, making it look like you're inputting when you aren't at all.

After ISOing Nancy I can actually see a Nancy/GrandpaMo team being a thing, Her whole reasoning for being against the Mo wagon was Meta, and 147 just seems too convenient, as if she told Mo how to act in a mafia PM, then can just brush away everything Mo did or didn't do under the rug of Meta.

Unfortunately if you couldn't tell I thoroughly dislike and don't support Meta-reliant reads.

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

[JamesTheNames]

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

Nancy's vote on me doesn't even seem like OMGUS, though. She hasn't explicitly said so, but to me she has implied several times she reads me as 'wrong town' .

Would anyone openly start an OMGUS vote with declaring it is an OMGUS vote?

[JamesTheNames]

Part of me dislikes the fact I've come to town read/lean both T3 and GrandpaMo...

[JamesTheNames]

yup u havent contributed nothing. you also said u were gonna read the game more thoroughly have u done that ?

im giving u the benefit of the doubt here.

if u are town, can u tell me what u have learned since then?

Wait are we in agreeance 314 is not town sided?

[JamesTheNames]

Dude, you did snap back at me. You may not think you did, but you did. How you intended a thing and how a thing actually came across can and usually are two different things.

Not giving a reason DID give me information- it told me that either you or James or both are town. You can try to twist that into a scum read if you want, but it's not going to help town.

i null read u rn atm. im just jsut tryna get accross in both worlds where u could be scum in another world where u are town.

also i believe i just tried to solve ur allignment from the beginning which correlated into u not giving explanations. heck u even admitted so rn

LAMIST.

[JamesTheNames]

Dude, you did snap back at me. You may not think you did, but you did. How you intended a thing and how a thing actually came across can and usually are two different things.

Not giving a reason DID give me information- it told me that either you or James or both are town. You can try to twist that into a scum read if you want, but it's not going to help town.

i null read u rn atm. im just jsut tryna get accross in both worlds where u could be scum in another world where u are town.

also i believe i just tried to solve ur allignment from the beginning which correlated into u not giving explanations. heck u even admitted so rn

Look Chuck, I'm also doing the things you Town read Clark and Roden for. Look how town I am.

[JamesTheNames]

I can tell you with some degree of certainty that Psyche is town.

If you're about to out another Power Role like you did in 2068 I'm going to call you a sock until Day 1 ends.

[JamesTheNames]

Clark why do I recognise your name and avatar?

[JamesTheNames]

Can anybody explain how to do the boxes?

[JamesTheNames]

@Chuck obviously I can't tell you what Blurryx my predecesor was intending with his 1 actual post, if you ignore Blurryx's comment, can I get your opinion on my slot? It's a pain in the rear to be scum read / scum leant because of a predecesor and to not be able to do anything.

[JamesTheNames]

Is anti-town as an SE in a newbie game not scummy?

[JamesTheNames]

Or rather is it not dodgy?

[JamesTheNames]

Or rather is it not dodgy?

Is anti-town as an SE in a newbie game not scummy?

I mean, no. But also I'm probably being hyperbolic anyway. Nancy's not literally active lurking...or is she? I'm maybe more ambivalent than my post suggests. I mean her iso does have reads and reasonings in it. Just not the red meat I get the most help from.

I'd say having the majority of her last 42 posts being explaining one strand of meta is pretty close to lurking in terms of what it achieves.

[JamesTheNames]

@Roden is your 429 implying you think me and Val89 are scum partners?

[JamesTheNames]

Val89 if it is an early day thing from T3 I've noticed it and I don't think thats a good idea.

[JamesTheNames]

Nancy claims that, at a point in time, there was at least 1 scum on GrandpaMo's wagon. At that point in time, Lunarrest, ClarkBar, Psyche and T3 were all on or hovering about the Wagon. In the same post she claims its neither ClarkBar nor Lunarrest. Meaning T3 or Psyche. Her next post implies she thinks T3 is a town lean, she also said "Psyche’s probably town.", so if the scum were to be Psyche here in her eyes, it changed after 190 Basically I just think what she said was fluff to claim she has ideas of who is scum and who isn't.

While having an alt and keeping it to yourself isn't scummy, hiding information from town is when the information benefits town. I also think meta reliance, not meta as a guideline but meta reliance, is inherently scummy, it just provides fake reasoning, making it look like you're inputting when you aren't at all.

After ISOing Nancy I can actually see a Nancy/GrandpaMo team being a thing, Her whole reasoning for being against the Mo wagon was Meta, and 147 just seems too convenient, as if she told Mo how to act in a mafia PM, then can just brush away everything Mo did or didn't do under the rug of Meta.

Unfortunately if you couldn't tell I thoroughly dislike and don't support Meta-reliant reads.

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

And even if that was actually true, how does it make me scum?

Do a metadive on me if you think that’s in anyway even remotely scum indicative for me.

The more you rely on meta for a town case the more obvious it is to me you're scum because you can't come up with anything else.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

[JamesTheNames]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Another OMGUS.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

The only less valid way to form reads than meta is to open a random name generator, and it's close.

[JamesTheNames]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

[JamesTheNames]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Another OMGUS.

No my vote on Val wasn’t an an omgus and I just posted a link that completely debunked your bs case on me and your response is to outright refuse to read it.

If I’m right, I think there’s a decent chance Psyche is your buddy and you were just distancing him with that initial vote.

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

The only less valid way to form reads than meta is to open a random name generator, and it's close.

Only people who are either scum or completely incapable of reading meta say that.

I OMGUSed every player in that game who sr me and guess what, I was town in that game too.

I haven't even read the game, but if you OMGUS everybody who SRs you as town, why didn't you OMGUS Val89?

[JamesTheNames]

I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided.

I just literally posted a link and you’re scumclaiming by refusing to read it because it 100% disproves your case on me.

The only less valid way to form reads than meta is to open a random name generator, and it's close.

Only people who are either scum or completely incapable of reading meta say that.

I OMGUSed every player in that game who sr me and guess what, I was town in that game too.

Incapable of reading meta?
Bold claim.
Real life analogy for you here to see if this makes it clearer.
Sir Sam has previous convictions of burglary and assault. Mr Michael was robbed and assaulted. Madam Moira witnessed Lady Lucy leave the house where Mr Michael was assaulted and robbed. You know Sir Sam has previous convictions, and the way the case was carried out was similar.
Relying on meta is arresting Sir Sam entirely because he had previous convictions. Actually playing the game and making useful reads, is using actual evidence and reads to realise, it was probably Lady Lucy.

[JamesTheNames]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

Is there anything in your eyes you've done this entire game which is town sided? If so do tell, or is your entire town case going to be "So and so played in a game with me before so they should know town me does this/doesn't do this"?

[JamesTheNames]

Also I do apologise if my tone is starting to get a bit rude, its late where I am and it isn't intentional, if I ever upset or bother anyone with this please do tell me as soon as possible.

[JamesTheNames]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

This is total bs and I actually think you might be scum here and possibly with Psyche with your interactions.

Have I just solved the game?


VOTE: James

I think Val is actually sincere.

Wait, why Psyche? They were the first vote on Blurry.

He played with me in Forrest Fire, so he should know that none of this is scum indicative for me.

He’s very clearly planning to jump on me if his last post is any indication and that really doesn’t mean much.

I once put my buddy to E-1 in a game, so I could see possible distancing,

Bit of a difference between E-1 and E-4 or E-3.

[JamesTheNames]

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

Is there anything in your eyes you've done this entire game which is town sided? If so do tell, or is your entire town case going to be "So and so played in a game with me before so they should know town me does this/doesn't do this"?

Anyone with eyes, who can read should be able to tell I’m town here. Why did I make that post about miseliiming Mo? Other than concern that he may be miselimed?

Please explain to me why scum!me does that?

In fact, other than the votes on players who have voted/sr me, what else do you see as even remotely scummy? Because none of that is even remotely scum indicative for me.

Simple towncred until the pretence of avoiding a mislim. This isn't to say you and Mo are necessarily buddies, although it isn't impossible. There doesn't necessarily have to be multiple reasons for a scum action, it can be as simple as trying to look townie and to allow you to hide. Playing passively instead of scum hunting, which you are doing, would definitely suit the theme of fake concern of a miselim.

[JamesTheNames]

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

Once again I implore you to point out a single town sided thing you've done this game. You're relying on meta instead of actually being town sided. You aren't trying to help town, you just want to coast/lurk.
Let's say somebody doesn't have the time to read over all of your previous games, they may be busy with exams, work, maybe they just don't dedicate a lot of time to mafia. Why don't you show this hypothetical player something you've done this game that makes you town?

[JamesTheNames]

i do think that i know enough about nancy to believe most of what she's being criticized for is NAI
however i think already said as much? i think that while i'm sympathetic to criticism of nancy's play i'm pretty neutral on idea that she's mafia and think the main case against her falls apart once you accept that her vote wasn't based on a read

i still think blurryx's replacement would be a better lynch

ah why am i doing this on my phone my laptop is right next to me

There's no active scumhunting, no active attempt at solving, no active attempt at forming reads not based on meta. Her only activity spanning over the past 250~ posts is meta reliance and OMGUS. That isn't NAI its scum.

[JamesTheNames]

@James, are you blind?

74 is fluff. You voted someone for voting Mo. That makes you town how? It's just you trying to use the pretence of a miselim to look town.
61 isn't town indicative in any way, you can be against self votes as scum and as town.
76 and 83. Well done you loosely tried pressuring Clark.
None of these are town indicative, they're NAI.
Pretending they are for a moment, is it not alarming you have nothing for nearly 400 posts, that you deem town sided?

[JamesTheNames]

@James, are you blind?

74 is fluff. You voted someone for voting Mo. That makes you town how? It's just you trying to use the pretence of a miselim to look town.
61 isn't town indicative in any way, you can be against self votes as scum and as town.
76 and 83. Well done you loosely tried pressuring Clark.
None of these are town indicative, they're NAI.
Pretending they are for a moment, is it not alarming you have nothing for nearly 400 posts, that you deem town sided?

Did you even bother clicking that link? I think it’s definitely scummy that you refuse to critically look at anything that clearly torpedoes your case. If you were town here. I would expect that to actually matter.

Meta isn't valid, the only thing it torpedoes is your town case, the fact how you refuse to read or analyse and just rely on meta.

[JamesTheNames]

And James, you clearly still nullread me so my paranoing on a possible you/Psyche team is intensifying. Because at worst you clearly do not a have a scumcase on me, you have an NAI one and if you flip scum, yeah you’d better believe that I think Psyche could possibly be bussing you here

Why push him so hard earlier just to suddenly drop it and switch over to me? It doesn’t read genuine at all to me.

And you claim I ignore things.

[JamesTheNames]

Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?

Answer this.

[JamesTheNames]

The question in 484 you don't have patience, I was finding quotes.

I can't even just be stubborn about this, I genuinely didn't see that one line by Val89, or at least didn't process it. This is why you sleep when it hits 2am... my apologies Psyche.

482 I'm not opening it.
481 was already answered, just you asking it again.
No I am not blind.
461 was answered.

[JamesTheNames]

Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?

Answer this.

No, you first, I have 0 intention of allowing you or anyone else in any game ever get away with such a blatantly obvious shitpush on me.

You answer. I made it easy for you by actually posting a link.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=31062

Why are you refusing to read an ISO where I pretty much did the exact same thing you’re wrongly sr me in that game?

For 1. Meta is not valid.
For 2. I answered with a question you won't answer because you cannot.

[JamesTheNames]

The question in 484 you don't have patience, I was finding quotes.

I can't even just be stubborn about this, I genuinely didn't see that one line by Val89, or at least didn't process it. This is why you sleep when it hits 2am... my apologies Psyche.

482 I'm not opening it.
481 was already answered, just you asking it again.
No I am not blind.
461 was answered.

If you won’t open that link, you’re either horribly bad town or scum, which is it?

You want me to waste my time with an inefficient method? That makes me "horribly bad town or scum"?

[JamesTheNames]

Okay, I’m good with my vote on you then.

Time to see which everyone else prefers I guess. Refusing to read a cherry picked game for an unreliable method. Or refusal to interact with the game and to form reads which aren't OMGUS.

[JamesTheNames]

If someone does pretty much the same thing every game, then it’s clearly NAI and you haven’t given a single reason to sr me which isn’t literally based on playstyle. Vanderscamp actually recognized that he had been wrongly sr me based off of playstyle but then he was town and and genuinely interested in correctly parsing me.

Nancy claims that, at a point in time, there was at least 1 scum on GrandpaMo's wagon. At that point in time, Lunarrest, ClarkBar, Psyche and T3 were all on or hovering about the Wagon. In the same post she claims its neither ClarkBar nor Lunarrest. Meaning T3 or Psyche. Her next post implies she thinks T3 is a town lean, she also said "Psyche’s probably town.", so if the scum were to be Psyche here in her eyes, it changed after 190 Basically I just think what she said was fluff to claim she has ideas of who is scum and who isn't.

While having an alt and keeping it to yourself isn't scummy, hiding information from town is when the information benefits town. I also think meta reliance, not meta as a guideline but meta reliance, is inherently scummy, it just provides fake reasoning, making it look like you're inputting when you aren't at all.

After ISOing Nancy I can actually see a Nancy/GrandpaMo team being a thing, Her whole reasoning for being against the Mo wagon was Meta, and 147 just seems too convenient, as if she told Mo how to act in a mafia PM, then can just brush away everything Mo did or didn't do under the rug of Meta.

Unfortunately if you couldn't tell I thoroughly dislike and don't support Meta-reliant reads.

Also the vote on Val89 just feels like revenge voting from my perspective. Is it OMGUS? I can't remember which the right acronym is, but the one which is like "you voted me you SCUM!".

UNVOTE: Psyche
VOTE: Nancy Drew 39

Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?

370 explains how basically nothing you've done is town sided. The only potential town sided action you've done, is explain a game mechanic to Lunarrest, but that's NAI. You're entire reason for being against the Mo wagon was meta. You're reason you should be seen as town according to you is meta. The reason I'm wrong about you in your eyes is meta. You post one single link, expecting that to encompass all of the games you've ever played, when for one every game is different, I've had a look around random games and I haven't seen many as anti-meta as me, that will give you new interactions you haven't done before. There are 38 options for the role you get and the column/row we're in total. You'd need to supply at least 38 games to cover all options. Then there's a huge player base which will make all games different. Your meta nonsense refuses to take this into account.
Not to mention what is stopping you from providing 1 convenient game, going, look how I acted here, I'm acting the same, then acting differently?
Absolutely nothing.

When I die, please yeet this into the stratosphere and if it flips scum, then flip Psyche next. Psyche has played with me before in Forest Fire, so he’s read on me is also bs.

Is there anything in your eyes you've done this entire game which is town sided? If so do tell, or is your entire town case going to be "So and so played in a game with me before so they should know town me does this/doesn't do this"?

Anyone with eyes, who can read should be able to tell I’m town here. Why did I make that post about miseliiming Mo? Other than concern that he may be miselimed?

Please explain to me why scum!me does that?

In fact, other than the votes on players who have voted/sr me, what else do you see as even remotely scummy? Because none of that is even remotely scum indicative for me.

Simple towncred until the pretence of avoiding a mislim. This isn't to say you and Mo are necessarily buddies, although it isn't impossible. There doesn't necessarily have to be multiple reasons for a scum action, it can be as simple as trying to look townie and to allow you to hide. Playing passively instead of scum hunting, which you are doing, would definitely suit the theme of fake concern of a miselim.

Apologies for the quote wall but you're wrong. Again. My entire opinion of your plays have no previous game to impact them. Every opinion and thought about you I've derived myself from things in this game. Everything has come from things you have said and done this game. If you do towny things you get town cred. If you don't you get scum cred.


Your entire 2 reasons for voting me is because I'm voting you and that you think my vote and opinion on meta is invalid. That isn't justified from reads or playstyle its just OMGUS.

[JamesTheNames]

Meta is valid ^.

[JamesTheNames]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

[JamesTheNames]

James,

Given your slot is now in hammer-range, would you mind both claiming, and also answering the following?

Before you replaced in, I was very lightly scumreading your slot, based almost entirely on the confused reads your predecessor gave us on T3 and Grandpa. I don't think it's fair to read your slot based on what might have been a communication thing, so I'm resetting that read to null, but could you give us your reasoning for TR/TL'ing those two if that is what you are doing?

If you have answered and I missed it, sorry; but I only see confirmation in your ISO that you are townreading or townleading both (360) and no explanation as to why.

I was a bit tunnel visioned on proving Nancy wrong but I'll answer it now sorry for the wait.

T3, if you're doing what I think you're doing I'm gonna laugh my ass off so hard.

If he

is

doing what I think you think that T3 is doing, do we think that scum don't already think that he was doing what I think that you think that he was doing, and thus we should probably confirm one way of another?

If I am thinking it's the same thing you and Roden have, you can probably see how I read T3 and why I'm reluctant.
For GrandpaMo he actually seems to be trying to game solve and scum hunt, even if its sporadic and weird. 397, 381, 312, 290, 255, 252 as some examples.

While I'm also here:
ClarkBar and Val89 are my 2 other confident town sided people in my eyes.
Val89 is trying to solve, a lot. 511, 509, 417, 409, 366, 296, 292. As some examples
ClarkBar is doing the same, but maybe not as much. 404, 345, 342, 221, 174. As examples.

Although actually while trudging through some older posts:

Regarding the alt thing. I was annoyed that Nancy used a past experience with Grandpa to defend/justify the gameplay style they were using that got them to E-1 fairly quickly but then decided to not disclose the game in question. I wanted to skim that game for similarities to this one to get a better read on if what Nancy was saying was true and informed this game and Grandpa's play-style better. Why bring it up if we can only take her word for it? It felt to me that Nancy was advocating for Grandpa during his push and that pinged me so I wanted to explore their past relationship/interactions.

Ultimately I was too lazy to sleuth the game out, and I wasn't motivated to bother Nancy about it.

Seemed like a dead end. I will check out the link provided by Val later.

Nancy do you have some reason not to scum read/scum lean ClarkBar for the bolded section? Boiled down the only difference between the bolded section and what I'm doing is I'm voting you. So either this means you would scum read ClarkBar for this, or you're just OMGUS voting me.

[JamesTheNames]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

Once again I implore you to point out a single town sided thing you've done this game. You're relying on meta instead of actually being town sided. You aren't trying to help town, you just want to coast/lurk.

Let's say somebody doesn't have the time to read over all of your previous games, they may be busy with exams, work, maybe they just don't dedicate a lot of time to mafia. Why don't you show this hypothetical player something you've done this game that makes you town?

You haven't done anything to convince people you're town apart from "REEEEEEEEEE look at my meta, YOU AREN'T READING MY CHERRY PICKED META YOU SCUM!". So once again if someone doesn't have the time, why would they think you were town from this game Nancy?

[JamesTheNames]

I'm just going to summarise what Nancy has against me and to show it isn't valid.
I get voted in 443, I joined in 326. Time to analyse everything relevant between those 2 points:
359 is asking why I didn't list town reads. Response from me was 363. 435 is her understanding why I didn't list town reads. NAI or indicative of a case.
360 was asking for a clarification because of accidentally opening the wrong post. 434 is her understanding more of what I meant by Psyche scum slipping as if being told to do something by the scum chat.
437 she starts asking for a metadive instead of defending herself properly.
438 accuses me of only voting Nancy because Val89 did.
443 votes me.
So clearly the reason she scum reads me should be between 437 and 443, or it is entirely because I voted just because Val89 did? Which isn't the case, why would I have gone this far if that was the only reason?
I have 2 posts between 437 and 443.
441 "The more you rely on meta for a town case the more obvious it is to me you're scum because you can't come up with anything else."
442 "I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided."
There are 3 options as to why she is scum reading me, because she thinks I'm voting just because Val89 did, she thinks I'm scum for refusing to use her cherry picked meta over reading her actual posts and input this game, or she's doing it because I scum read her.
The first one, regarding Val89 voting first and me copying, would make no sense because I've taken it a few miles further.
The second one, I've been explaining for a long while why it's silly, Val89 has also started this and his 509 is actually a lovely explanation, I did similar in 451 but Nancy purposely ignored it as she has done with many of my posts and points.
The third one. OMGUS is scum indicative.

As such, it should be clear Nancy has nothing against me, is doing it just because I voted her, which is not town sided, nor does it aid town, it is scum sided.

[JamesTheNames]

Meta is very good.

I don't mind this opinion, I know I'm an outlier, but why should I town read somebody who refuses to do something town sided and just relies on claiming Meta to get away with things?

[JamesTheNames]

I do think we need a claim here, James. You are at E-1. It looks like a damn serious wagon to me, and Nancy isn't the only one driving it.

I don't feel good about the fact most of reason you are up for the chop seems based on a single post by your predecessor, and what may well be chalked up to communication issues anyway, but that doesn't negate the fact you are up for the lim here, and I don't exactly have a townread on you myself right now. My vote isn't the only possible source for the hammer either.

The only scum case people have on me is one unclear post by my predecesor, which isn't even scum indicative it just isn't helpful, and mainly the fact there is 1 unfinished sentence. There exists an actual scum case on Nancy. I'm certain there's at least 1 scum on my wagon. T3's vote is just a prod vote as far as I can tell, so it's only E-2. I'm not worried about someone quickhammering me, I know nobody would have an explanation for it and would be policy hammered D2.

@Chuck obviously I can't tell you what Blurryx my predecesor was intending with his 1 actual post, if you ignore Blurryx's comment, can I get your opinion on my slot? It's a pain in the rear to be scum read / scum leant because of a predecesor and to not be able to do anything.

I implore both Psyche and Roden to answer this pretending the @was their name, then to ask themselves if they actually have a case against me that isn't from Blurryx being weird or unhelpful.

[JamesTheNames]

Third and final time, James. We need a claim.

Intent to hammer

Really don't want to do this.
I'm the Doctor.

[JamesTheNames]

Third and final time, James. We need a claim.

Intent to hammer

Really don't want to do this.
I'm the Doctor.

Did you crumb?

Why would I crumb Doctor? Plus it would have been too late even if I wanted to, I replaced in too late.

[JamesTheNames]

VOTE: JamesTheNames

I think I'm pretty sure JTN is scum. To keep setup ambiguous from scum for at least one night longer, someone should go ahead and hammer.

Come again? There'd only be an issue if somebody just out and claimed Cop or Tracker, the game is no longer ambiguous. Why are you blindly rushing a hammer instead of waiting to see nobody has issues with my claim?

[JamesTheNames]

You could have just waited to see that nobody was going to counter claim me, why would scum counter claim day 1? Nevermind I guess.

[JamesTheNames]

Aren't I hammered why are you still voting?

[JamesTheNames]

hehe probably unwise to pull gambits in newbies but i felt like a betting man today
we'll work these nicks out tomorrow val my guy

What does this even mean? It's only a gambit if you're faking something.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm going to be mislimmed anyway so I suppose there's no point in hiding it,

I'll definitely be tracking where this game goes.

. T3 bread crumbed Tracker, it's clear he isn't a tracker now, because he'd know both Tracker/Doctor and Tracker/Jailkeeper were options. Psycho isn't claiming a mason there were no mason crumbs, it's clear he's trying to claim Jailkeeper. So why would T3 as town fake claim tracker if not to use it later on in the game as a scum claim. Psyche and T3 are a scum pair. T3 was planning on fake claiming Tracker late game. Meaning we're in Row B, considering Psyche is pretending to be jailkeeper.

[JamesTheNames]

I mean to say Column B ^.

[JamesTheNames]

Third and final time, James. We need a claim.

Intent to hammer

Really don't want to do this.
I'm the Doctor.

Did you crumb?

If you assume T3 was going to fake claim tracker, this delay to make sure makes sense. Once they saw Val89 realise my claim was true, they made one of them claim Jailkeeper, because they realised it wouldn't be a quick hammer.

[JamesTheNames]

Erm... I am tracker.

Well congrats, you just made the Doctor get hammered. He isn't a Jailkeeper. Even if it was possible that he was telling the truth, you as a tracker should have known instantly that it could have been either, yet you somehow didn't.

[JamesTheNames]

wait im confused, val can u give me like what happened in the past 2 pages

Yea so Psyche fake claimed Jailkeeper, and the apparent Tracker just hammered me despite Tracker/Doctor being a thing.

[JamesTheNames]

If you can't see how obvious it is that Psyche is lying about his PR claim then I wish you the best because you're going to lose.

[JamesTheNames]

His gambit nonsense is him not being a power role as town or scum. Either he is a VT getting a doctor hammered for no reason, or scum getting doctor hammered because you all fell for it.

[JamesTheNames]

wait im confused, val can u give me like what happened in the past 2 pages

Yea so Psyche fake claimed Jailkeeper, and the apparent Tracker just hammered me despite Tracker/Doctor being a thing.

so if u flip town, psyche is high scum right?

i mean i townread u because of what i said earlier regarding nancy

Him and T3. T3 is either griefing as Tracker or is scum.

[JamesTheNames]

Imagine getting Doctor hammered over a nonsense gambit because of one post you just thought was ick, despite there being a literal scum counter claim in front of you all.

[JamesTheNames]

i'm a fakeclaimer what can i say
my father was a fakeclaimer and his father before him

Because this "Wasn't obvious"

[JamesTheNames]

i'm a fakeclaimer what can i say
my father was a fakeclaimer and his father before him

so ur scum fake claiming?

I guess you'll have to wait and see. Val89 all you had to do was be patient and you avoided a mislim.

[JamesTheNames]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

Once again I implore you to point out a single town sided thing you've done this game. You're relying on meta instead of actually being town sided. You aren't trying to help town, you just want to coast/lurk.

Let's say somebody doesn't have the time to read over all of your previous games, they may be busy with exams, work, maybe they just don't dedicate a lot of time to mafia. Why don't you show this hypothetical player something you've done this game that makes you town?

You haven't done anything to convince people you're town apart from "REEEEEEEEEE look at my meta, YOU AREN'T READING MY CHERRY PICKED META YOU SCUM!". So once again if someone doesn't have the time, why would they think you were town from this game Nancy?

I literally linked a recent game for you. How much time and effort would it have taken you to click it?

Ignoring things again. It's a hypothetical scenario, you've got me hammered, why are you still dodging my things?

[JamesTheNames]

look
i just thought it over real hard and decided i couldn't let james get away with such a bad claim
if he flips town then god that sucks and i accept all blame if the town loses
but in the end mafia is about having fun and i live for the thrill

You'd grief town so you can have fun?

[JamesTheNames]

I was softing that I was the other PR as hard as I could after the James hammer and into D2 because I thought you (T3) actually were the tracker, and were fake-retracting. I was hoping to give scum some anxiety over who to pick for the NK. Of course, they knew there was only one PR, so it was never going to work, but at the time I thought it was worth a try.

Even though I was scum there are a bunch of posts of me saying how he was definitely lying about being a Tracker.