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[NDMath]

T3, I think you typod again lol.

People familiar with me can expect more activity from me this game than my usual.


VOTE: Almost50
Consider this a greeting since I know you like being greeted to the thread.

[NDMath]

T3, I think you typod again lol.

People familiar with me can expect more activity from me this game than my usual.


VOTE: Almost50
Consider this a greeting since I know you like being greeted to the thread.

Good. Let's avoid Yggdrasil again.

That would be preferable, yeah.

While I agree that ActionDan could be town, I disagree that the asking part is easily fake-able for someone with 10 years of experience in the game I think being willing to give someone townpoints to Almost50 so early in the game is the townie part.

Not sure I agree with this. Even if Elsa flips scum, it's a factor, not a confirmation. It could be a pocket.

If there are two scum teams, how will scum be able to know if they're pocketing town or if they're pocketing scum? What value would it have to whiteknight anyone who you think could flip scum? What value would it have to pocket anyone who you think could be potential rival scum? I don't see that happening unless the other scum is informed about who is the other scum (which I doubt).

Pocketing other scum means they're less likely to shoot you.

[NDMath]

like not only is he a decent oldtimer but upon his return in like summer of last year he has been on a TEAR

My first game with cabd was the one kitty's referring to, and cabd there and cabd in yggdrasil felt like two very different people.



I have townleans on Titus and Gamma.
Specifically liked Titus's posts on Kitty.
For gamma, their hem scumread feels real and with good reasoning.

Am guttown on Cyrus as well, but that might just be his simplistic/straightforward posting style.

[NDMath]

I feel like accusing someone of not being active the second they come in the thread is just a scum tactic and thus he's just scum

My impression of cyrus is that it wouldn't stop town!him.

Specifically liked Titus's posts on Kitty.

You liked my post where I was utterly wrong?

Am confused what you are referring to, I was going off of the corrected name.

[NDMath]

What do you think about ActionDan?

Scumlean, don't like his early posts regarding mechanics. After that it's better but there's nothing in his iso yet that to me actually feels more likely to come from town.

It's tedium.

Almost can you provide an example of the meta you are claiming Elsa exhibits consistently? I'd like to 2nd Titus's request of ndMath to show which posts of hers surrounding Kitty ndMath liked.

Spoiler: posts

I actually like Kitty as town. Saying this is all bullshit in a sea of mechanics talk is a good position.

I'm sick of the mechanics talk too. The setup will reveal itself with time.

Well, I guess Elsa can't be TMI about KittyTacky's town alignment because there are two scum teams in this game. So maybe if KittyTacky flips town, Elsa's town as well. Otherwise, if KittyTacky flips scum, there's an obvious connection to be made that Elsa is partners with Kitty.

Not sure I agree with this. Even if Elsa flips scum, it's a factor, not a confirmation. It could be a pocket.

This depends on Elsa scum first.

I don't like this. Mechanics talk is how we figure out the setup-- that's hard to do with just flips.

Acceptable but we do it with flips. Anything else just gives away role information and gives scum a place to hide.

Okay I see Titus saying they were wrong with #101 now, I didn't process it at the time.

[NDMath]

I messed up that post link whoops

[NDMath]

Almost50 is both more contributive and more motivated than my previous two games with him of each alignment. Generally I'd consider it more indicative of availability than alignment but from my understanding of the player it's a bit town-indicative.

19. Dunnstall asking NDMath about ActionDan is scummy (220)

Why is that scummy?

[NDMath]

19. Dunnstall asking NDMath about ActionDan is scummy (220)

Why is that scummy?

In general, if A asks town!B to think about C, this usually has the effect of B thinking A is more town and C is more scum, regardless of the alignments of the players involved. This is because B usually perceives that A has benign interest in them (which reads as town to most people), and that A already has suspicion of C. This can also lead B to attack C on behalf of A. Together, this has an average beneficial effect to A regardless of A's alignment, but the strategy is more beneficial for scum!A. So, that's why it's scummy. HEM has done this I think 3 times so far. Dunnstall did it once that I can remember. So, it's the pattern of inquiry rather than anything specific about you or Dan.

(There are other explanations for this pattern depending upon contextual factors. For example, A might be unable to feel interested in the game unless they're generating the activity being discussed, and use this as a way to motivate themselves. But in this case, town!A will follow-up on what's made from their question above to try to solve the game, which I don't see HEM as having done. Or, A might be town but very avoidant of conflict, and engage peripherally as a result, including via strategies like this. But, I don't get the impression that HEM is conflict-avoidant, because they have had a high level of activity and playful engagement with the thread.)

As player B in this scenario I do think it's nai or perhaps slightly town-indicative for Dunn which I suppose supports your point.
Though I do think your logic fails to fully fill the gap between "Player A doing this benefits player A regardless of A's alignment" and "it is scummy".

[NDMath]

I think Gamma/Iec/Titus/Cyrus are town without equivocation. Also very much liking Testa's entrance as well.

{Trimmed}

I did not find the series of posts that made ndMath townread Titus particularly convincing. The first was nonsense, and the latter two are imo bland.

Why do you townread Titus?

[NDMath]

I think T3 is town here. The 1920 crumb sounds like something he'd do as town (or scum neighborizer), I don't think he does it to try to justify it as a crumb for any role, also neighborizer is something you claim if and only if you are one. His dayplay has been good too despite the heavy focus on cyrus. His couple mentions of EJ and Dunn are both reasonable.

I'm not liking nom's recent posting, part of it is I'm not comprehending why this claim/situation makes T3 a likely nk target?

HEM's argument that EJ mentioning scum on their wagon but not hunting for it is scum-indicative and dunn's mention that EJ's shifting the reasons for their wagon are both convincing to me.
Also is a better vote than my rvs one (a50).
VOTE: Elsa Jay

[NDMath]

I mean I don't care. If Elsa is town, T3 takes a dive after.

I don't think that really follows, unless Normals don't allow this in 2021. I don't know how warped the Normal meta has become, in terms of things being "too zany for a Normal."

There's stuff I'd consider unlikely to occur but very little that's so zany it's impossible (assuming it's 'normal' roles).

[NDMath]

Spoiler: reordered elsa's reads so I can process it better

Gamma: honestly big townread for stirring the pot enough. Even if he doubts me, he's playing to town meta.

Lecerint: biggest defender of me, ironically. Don't think he's scum pocketing me either considering it seems likely atm I die. Still working on changing that but town.

Math: don't like he voted me after claim but he probably is just siding with HEM's logic here. Beforehand he's been pretty town, so town.

Cyrus: compared the the last time I saw him he actually seems more insane. Funnily enough that might be a towntell.

Action: doesn't know me well so I forgive him for thinking I'm scum. Still actually trying to solve me too. Town lean. Oh and
@Dan: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86090
There's my last Elsa scum game. Also the one with Kitty in it.

Nom: been on me too but is active enough to generate discussion. Town lean.

Nero: felt in the background but he's okay with my death too it seems. Last time I played him I think he was scum and did jack day 1. So considering he's solving a bit, nulltown.

HEM: The big guy. Frankly if I think about it, he's not really scumreading me because of my actions. He just doesn't understand my style at all. If that's the case, might actually be town. If faking that and just is trying to kill me for easy day 1, obviously scum. But the first seems more likely to me now.

---

T3: he counterclaimed me but since we know literally nothing elsa I'm okay waiting till day 2 to deal with that. Could just be neighborizor is common enough for a reason. Null for now.

Almost: he told me to shut up earlier about defending Kitty and I wish I listened. Null at the moment purely because he's probably waiting till day 2 or 3 too make his move

Lucifer: getting replaced so no read.

Dunn: stuck with a gutread on me in the first few pages and isn't looking anywhere elsa either like Titus. Expected better but he seems more committed to me dying so null.

Andre: new phone who dis? Literally nothing here so null.

---

Testarossa: earlier said the strongest scumlean was T3 but now seems chill with him? Dunno. If she's a quiet person or just busy it's null. If she's normally active maybe scumlean? Feels more gutsy.

Titus: wanted to instantly townread her but it feels like she just... Took me as sus and went with it? She should know better. I expected more of her by now. Scumlean.

Kitty: a non prescence now that I took the heat off of him. Turned on me immediately as well. I was stupid so now he feels safe. Scummy.


That list... Wasn't as helpful as I wanted it but I got soaked running home in the rain and I'm sleepy so I'm posting the beta now. Ftr my nulls could be more passive scum.

I think I like this? There's nothing I have a problem with.
Don't like the claim change. However HEM's 881/884 are unrealistic standards since ej necessarily still has time to pick a target if they're not the one hanged today.

So she saved it to use it properly? The proper way to use it is to announce who you would be targeting, and she hasn't done that at all. Even if they were hiding the weak modifier, she hasn't even announced her target at all.

wouldnt scum kill her target ruining her one shot making her claim look fake? Sorry just thinking how I hander. prs as scum which is why I said chumb her target.

If the target is a player town either may or is likely to hang otherwise (and given the role they shouldn't be targeting a townie player anyway) then that's still beneficial.
Greater consequence is if there's a scum roleblocker.

[NDMath]

T3

Almost50

Gamma Emerald

cyrus62

Titus

Arcangel9 (replaces LuciferMorningStar)

ActionDan

KittyTacky

Nero Cain

Testarossa

Andresvmb

NDMath

Iecerint

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Blue names are people who I have given me at least some reason to believe that they're not aligned with Elsa.

I am assuming 2 scum on each team, right now, but this doesn't get shaked up too hard even if there are 3.

That means that if I didn't false-clear anybody, Elsa's partner should be within this pool of 4:
[Gamma Emerald, Arcangel9, Andresvmp, iecerint]

Additionally, there's nothing preventing names on this list from being mafia of the opposite alignment. Meaning, mechanically, I think it makes the most sense to look here first.

My interpretation is that Andres and Arc are on the list because of their lack of presence and therefore you think the/a partner is probably within {Gamma, iecerint}. Essentially half of iecerint's iso is focusing on and mostly defending elsa, I would definitely look there before gamma.
I'd need to spend some time looking at each individual players interactions with ej before I can confidently agree with your association pool, but I am leaning that way.

[NDMath]

Not seeing it posted anywhere but my n1 check was testarossa, so killing me got testa an extra day.