Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[clidd]

VOTE: Robert M Hunter

[clidd]

Actually,

VOTE: Amy Dunne

[clidd]

It's a hemorrhagic pleasure to see so many familiar (and also unfamiliar) faces.

I've been away from MS recently, but when I saw the concept of this game in particular, I felt the desire to participate.

My energy levels, however, are still oscillating due to external factors (mood too), so I'm not sure what my activity level will be here.

[clidd]

Actually,

VOTE: Amy Dunne

Regarding the vote, it's not rvs, I felt some scumpings in relation to her behavior ^

@Amy

Can you briefly describe your impressions of the last pages (in general)?

I want to take a look at how are you seeing this initial stage.

[clidd]

It doesn't have to be super detailed, just say what you think and etc.

(Robert and Ircher are also scumpings, but of lesser intensity)

[clidd]

I felt some townpings on Norwe, Pooky, Morning and Satoru.

Ydrasse, Flea, Infinity, Chara and Tunner are null.

[clidd]

That's all.

I don't have questions for yin/yang (yet). Maybe something will come to mind later.

[clidd]

Clidd, I suggest trying to get something mechanical from Yin, not breaking, but still.

I hope you're feeling better <3 and hopefully we won't come to blows this game

I was thinking about a question in the social context, but I couldn't formulate something expressive in the sense of *getting helpful information* ^

Mechanical questions are not my thing, so I accept suggestions.

(thanks for the concern, btw, independent of alignment )

[clidd]

VOTE: Robert M Hunter

Actually,

VOTE: Amy Dunne

why'd you vote for Robert first?

He's scummy too, but Amy gave me a comparatively more intense scum-ping impression to materialize a vote in that period of time.

What do you make of me changing votes in ai terms?

[clidd]

It doesn't have to be super detailed, just say what you think and etc.

(Robert and Ircher are also scumpings, but of lesser intensity)

I like Robert and Ircher’s posting seems awkward.

I’m also town this game.

Why do you like Robert?

[clidd]

Townping on Morning dissipated.

Townping on Pooky intensified.

[clidd]

I'm not sure if I can read Tanner/Datisi.

Still null, although the string of recent posts has been decent.

pedit: Hallo people.

[clidd]

@Amy

Her question was bad imo, and her posts on the last pages didn't give me an impression of "this is town! Morning" or "town reasoning/perspective for sure".

[clidd]

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dunne too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

@amy

I don’t have strong reads yet. It just seemed like his town meta. That’s why I usually like to wait until I’m more confident because this literally happens to me every game when I give reads before I’m ready.

I didn’t just say I liked you to Yang for the lulz, I actually thought you might be town and I’m actually more confident on you town than Robert.

Hum.

[clidd]

UNVOTE: Amy Dunne

I'll get some coffee.

[clidd]

Not a fan of mech, but I'm interested to see where this goes.

Also looking forward to Robert's return.

[clidd]

VOTE: Morning Tweet for now.

[clidd]

@Morning

Can I see your impressions on the players?

[clidd]

Don't forget 343 too.

[clidd]

Satoru, what do you think about the reasoning on 251?

[clidd]

Amy is officially a townlean now.

[clidd]

Satoru, what do you think about the reasoning on 251?

Nakata thinks it was a stretch and doesn't like it.

Ok, thanks for answering.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

No, I'm not vibing with the Robert wagon.

There's a decent chance he's weird-town instead of weird-scum (although the lack of participation after the ''what'' was scummy).

[clidd]

Impossible to tell if he doesn't post.

[clidd]

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert

, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

I mean, Tanner had a town ping on Robert before 219 happened.

Scum!Robert would simply ignore this to ''forge'' a false reasoning to scumread Tanner?

[clidd]

What's wrong with an good old-timey Ircher wagon.

I'll probably get into this wagon depending on what conclusion I get about Morning and Robert.

I'm not familiar with Ircher's townmeta, but his post has vaguely reminded me of scum!Ircher in Titus vs Nancy.

[clidd]

Alright, welcome back to townping.

UNVOTE: Morning Tweet

[clidd]

The question was ''bad'' in the context that you could have questioned other points in my posting, such as my scumpings/townpings/nulls etc (that would help you understand me more), but the focus was placed where you would extract less information.

[clidd]

Maybe it's just your mental process, but I don't understand how interpreting an exchange of votes occurring in seconds would give you any idea of ​​performative/genuine action from me. Regardless, I'm comfortable with you atm after seeing your recent posts.

[clidd]

Maybe it's just your mental process, but I don't understand how interpreting an exchange of votes occurring in seconds would give you any idea of ​​performative/genuine action from me. Regardless, I'm comfortable with you atm after seeing your recent posts.

Voting someone than going "hm, actually" and voting someone else is something i consider doing as scum a lot to give the appearance of thought behind my vote without using any effort

Whereas as town i'd have some kind of actual thought process or just actually vote the right person first. i try to decipher the difference between town/scum thoughts on the action although idk if there is an easily tangible one or not. Still something i always question when i see it!

Hum, ok.

I think I understand the concept, although it's still a bit extraordinary to extract something from an event that lasted seconds (bringing to the specific context of your question about my votes).

But, in general, if it's part of your mental process, fine, no problem.

[clidd]

Maybe it's just your mental process, but I don't understand how interpreting an exchange of votes occurring in seconds would give you any idea of ​​performative/genuine action from me. Regardless, I'm comfortable with you atm after seeing your recent posts.

what about Tweet's posting do you actually like? it looks like she just made "some posts" and you're okay to townlean her again even though you disagree/don't understand any of her process.

I felt transparency of thought from 428 to 438.

My doubt was regarding the initial question (268) she directed at me and also the fact that I was not detecting any towny particles during the time she was addressing the mech talk, but both were outweighed by my current positive impression of her latest post sequence. So, yeah, I'm fine with leaning town on her again (for now).

What do you think about my process?

[clidd]

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

No, but by her set of posts at that time. She reflected me as someone with a lack of cognitive load - something I associate with a scum mentality.

Ydrasse is still null to me, I couldn't catch anything that my brain interpreted as unquestionably towny.

It's been a while since we've played together and (assuming you're coming from an uninformed/town perspective) you're likely not to be able to get pings associated with town!clidd of your experience, but if you keep evaluating me (periodically), you'll eventually arrive at the correct read.

I don't remember how scum!Morning operates, but I'm not worried either (and I think she's town). Regarding Chara, I think she has the potential to be town, but like my internal evaluation of Ydrasse, I didn't identify anything *expressive* that would allow me to establish a read/impression.

It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

[clidd]

Correction: ''it'' instead of ''she'' when I addressed the subject of Chara.

[clidd]

i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

re clidd, i think he has that sort of style i tend to scumread, so i'm being more hesitant in saying he doesn't feel town. that said, when he has explained his thought process (ie on Tweetie and on Robert) i don't see the connection between that and how the scumpings and townpings he has on players are coming about.

If you have any questions about a particular read, let me know.

[clidd]

I honestly don't know what to ask to yin/yang.

[clidd]

@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

[clidd]

I mean, if I go a bit deeper, assuming that his goal would be to eliminate you or somehow promote himself as towny, there wouldn't be a sudden interruption with the information that Datisi and you were the same person. In reality, scum!he would be more inclined to pay attention and not make that kind of mistake (same applies to scumread but with late vote on 252).

[clidd]

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

[clidd]

I agree, however, that he didn't make it easy to understand the slot and that it's not possible to guess his intention without him speaking up about the posts. It's not like I'm complacent about giving a free pass to a slot with weird behavior but I think it's important to emphasize my take on this wagon (in case something drastic happens in his absence).

[clidd]

Alternatively, he could just be scum who made a simple mistake and decided to avoid/abandon the game (or had some outside interference), but that's not a satisfactory explanation given the way he navigated the suspicion on you.

[clidd]

All this assuming we are playing a game with traditional factions (town vs scum).

pedit: Yeah, that's true.

[clidd]

But meh, stills unsatisfactory. I hope he comes back.

[clidd]

[clidd]

Spoiler:

I don't know any Datisi

, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town,

Datisi is town

, and Flea is town.

???

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

Why would that mean your read is correct?

Robert, you clearly knew who Datisi was, or thought they were a person in the game.
So why are you now changing your story by acting like you don't even know who they are?

I have the same questions in mind ^

[clidd]

Chara is a decent wagon, though (as Norwegian said above) the npc's suggestion isn't too conclusive to trust.

Ircher is also an equally healthy option.

[clidd]

My mental image of scum!Pooky isn't complete (I don't know the extent of his scumgame), but from what I've seen so far (based on previous experiences with town!Pooky), he's similar to his towngame here.

Norwegian seems towny too (by play).

[clidd]

The thing is that Robert hasn't (really) returned to the game.

I would like to see some more substantial updates to his reads (with explanations) or at least some readlist to know where his head is right now before moving on.

[clidd]

I'm kind of still stuck on the topic of ''what's going through Robert's head and how it reflects in ai terms''.

Not sure how to reach a conclusion without him playing the game.

[clidd]

But in the meantime, I've been liking Chara and Ydrasse after watching the events of the last few pages.

[clidd]

Ircher, do you have any takes on the players so far?

I don't remember you expressing your impressions yet.

[clidd]

I mean, you tried to do something at 108, but it was shallow and there was no significant attempt at solving afterwards:

Spoiler:

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

@

Yin

: What is your favorite Chinese character?

@

Yang

: How often do you practice Taoism?

@Yang

: How much negative qi does an execution generate?

Happy scum day Hectic!

Flea is Flea. Fae are town.

@Yin

: How often do you practice Taoism?

@Yang

: How much yen does it take to bribe you for a special ability?

Flea is Flea. Fae are town.

I do not like this o.o

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

Tanner is town.

happy birthday ircher

<3 It's not quite here yet, but I appreciate it!

Oh hm, you make a good point. I also think it's wrong although unsure if intentional

It seems close. Cumulus clouds are the big puffy clouds we see on a normal day, but if it is thunder storming, we see cumulonimbus clouds instead.

but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense.

Nah it came across as confirmation bias to me. That being said, it makes you more likely town.
---
VOTE: Yin
Let's see if this is valid.

@Yin

: How often do you practice Taoism?

@Yin

: Why did you skip my last question?

clidd you have asked me way too many questions.

clidd may no longer ask me questions for 24 hours or until any player pays me a compliment

@Yang

: You are very entertaining!

Just remember: scum aren't perfect. They try, but they fail as well.

You can only ask one every 24 hours.

It was after the last midnight. Zzz... You should've clarified that it a full 24 hours had to pass and not just a 24 hour period.

Chara is a decent wagon, though (as Norwegian said above) the npc's suggestion isn't too conclusive to trust.

Ircher is also an equally healthy option.

Yin is the evil one, remember? Their favorite Chinese character is black. What do you associate black with?

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

Nah. I'm fine with my current role.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

I kind of expected scum!Ircher to have already joined one of the wagons (to blend in with the others), but the absence of a vote is curious.

[clidd]

Not saying that it's +town, but I would really like to know what's the game plan (if any) of scum!Ircher.

[clidd]

@Flea

I initially agreed with a wagon on it, but Chara became slightly more towny over time.

Not to the point of townlean, of course, but to the point of getting out of any scumlean and, at the very least, going into null-town or some variation of that kind.

But there wasn't exactly a reassessment by the players who are in the wagon, probably due to lack of time, disinterest or a different conclusion about Chara's posting (which probably involves past experience/expectation/knowledge of it's scumgame and etc.)

I don't think Chara is being pushed in bad faith. Seems like an ''ok''/not suggestive wagon.

[clidd]

Idk about the wagon on Robert in terms of ''town or scum voting''.

He gave reasons for both alignments to suspect the slot. It may be clearer after a flip (or if he comes back/is replaced).

[clidd]

Basically any discussion involving this name will eventually get to the point of ''the slot needs to do something''.

[clidd]

My personal guess is ''weird-town'', but I wouldn't mind being wrong. A scumflip would make Tanner skyrocket in my townspew concept.

[clidd]

On the other hand, in a townflip, my paranoia would rise significantly. I would have to re-evaluate all my reads according to the specs of the interactions that occurred around the wagon prior to the elim.

[clidd]

That's assuming he was today's elim (something that hasn't been accomplished yet as we have time available to wait and think).

[clidd]

A scumflip would make Tanner skyrocket in my townspew concept.

this implies you don't already read me as hella obvious town, and that makes me sad.

I'm not very familiar with the level of your current scumgame, but for me you're more than competent to argue well with other players and keep your position firmly (as scum), to the point that i imagine that you'd be able to convey confidence that you're trying solve/find scum (and trying to read others). So, well, I'm not underestimating that.

[clidd]

I remember the experience we had as scumpartners, but that game is kind of old and, considering that it was also short in duration, it's not a good example of your scumgame.

In doubt, I prefer to evaluate slower (to make sure I get the correct read).

[clidd]

[clidd]

@Ircher

If you were me, faced with someone whose role you don't know and, hypothetically speaking, also announced to you that they would be playing an alternative style, how would you go about establishing this person's alignment without visualizing their train of thought?

[clidd]

On the other hand, in a townflip, my paranoia would rise significantly. I would have to re-evaluate all my reads according to the specs of the interactions that occurred around the wagon prior to the elim.

Once again my only utility in a game is going to be day 1 elimination fodder. I guess that's going to be my niche?

[clidd]

So you are suspicious of who's accusing as well as who's defending you and think that scum wants to eliminate you because you're a "threat" to them and also an "easy" elim?

[clidd]

Just trying to understand the process.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

It feels like he believes in what he's saying, although I'm not a fan of the victimization and reactive sensitivity.

[clidd]

But, assuming that he could be genuinely offended by the massive attention on his slot in some way, it would make sense an unconscious AtE inside a town!Robert scenario.

[clidd]

Good vote.

[clidd]

Actually, VOTE: Satoru Nakata

I'll take a look here too.

[clidd]

I liked 718, not vibing with a Ircher vote for now.

[clidd]

I haven't closed my conclusion on Robert yet, but I don't see anything productive voting/pushing him at the moment. We still have a few days left and I'll give him some space to post (in his own pace).

[clidd]

Still hold the position of 692 about him anyways.

[clidd]

Nakata is on E-3.

[clidd]

@Satoru Nakata

What are your current reads/impressions on the players?

[clidd]

Robert's reactions/responses weren't insanely towny, but it's pretty hard that everything he said was a mere performance to convey a sense of outrage/anger.

[clidd]

Scum!Robert knows he would be looking extremely bad not to elucidate the points that were raised about him (and the inconsistencies) and judging by the quick formulation of "compound thinking" in post 746, it's plausible to me that he would have (theoretically) some mental capacity (as scum!Robert) to at least try to invent some reads or give better answers to the countless questions he received.

[clidd]

But the AtE, followed by the erratic order of interactions, the stubbornness in reaffirming the victim's position at all times and also the lack of satisfactory answers to the questions raised suggest an unplanned course of action, that is, with a lack of scum motivation.

[clidd]

I mean, it's fair for you to suspect him bearing in mind that he hasn't resolved any of your doubts at all (rationally speaking), but I don't see (in a speculative world) a scenario that makes sense scum!Robert purposely playing this way hoping to get something.

[clidd]

why are you voting nakata right now? please tell me it's more interesting than "they're not here so pressure wagon"

My initial positive impression of him dissipated over time and I began to notice a certain "superficiality" regarding his positions. For example, in the short progression:

Spoiler:

Nakata is willing to VOTE: ircher, Nakata thinks that 108 was primarily filler and also that friend NorwegianboyEE seems like he is town.

Nakata is sad that Hectic denied him the opportunity to top the page. Nakata wonders if Flea the Magician is not a friend.

Nakata thinks that Flea The Magician seems more interested in talking about things happening in faer real life and in asking questions to the NPCs than in trying to scumhunt.

VOTE: Robert M Hunter

He votes for Ircher, comments on Flea and then votes for Robert.

There may have been an internal process behind these exchanges, but the fact that he doesn't directly interact with any of these slots and doesn't demonstrate impression/thought/read evolution sounds negative to me (which added to his presence in Robert's wagon, which I'm judging as a wagon likely on town, make me more suspicious of the slot).

[clidd]

Which is also why I'm voting him.

[clidd]

To be honest, I don't have any arguments outside the (what if) to debate about Robert. His behavior can be interpreted in many ways - I'm just trying to find the more likely (and correct) scenario that makes sense to me (and shows his alignment).

[clidd]

@Nakata

Could you expand about your fos on Morning?

Clidd is in doubt about Nakata as he doesn't know if Nakata is a real friend, so he would like to understand what he's thinking. If Nakata could help Clidd, Clidd would be very grateful.

[clidd]

Hum.

Maybe it's the language barrier, but I had more than one interpretation of your post.

[clidd]

[1] you're saying that Morning, by voting for you after it was theorized that your presence in Robert's wagon was scummy, would be indirectly agreeing with this hypothesis and consequently being dissonant, but she could just find you individually scummy, although I recognize that her read on you is cloudy prior to the vote.

[2] you're saying that her vote should be on Robert according to what she's been verbalizing (and not you). If that's the case, yep I agree it's weird (and worth questioning).

[clidd]

Do you have more reads to share (descriptives)? if not, a readlist would be useful just to give me an idea of ​​​​the position of the slots in your head. I feel like this "Morning thing" is something that town/scum!you could argue equally and the tonality of your personality didn't suggest anything ai to me about your slot.

[clidd]

@Morning

Could you describe the transition from your past and current impression of Nakata before the vote? Did you have any influence from a particular post (quote) or was it a spontaneous conclusion? (considering that the vote took place late).

[clidd]

Do you have more reads to share (descriptives)? if not, a readlist would be useful just to give me an idea of ​​​​the position of the slots in your head. I feel like this "Morning thing" is something that town/scum!you could argue equally and the tonality of your personality didn't suggest anything ai to me about your slot.

@Nakata

Actually, can you expand 801? specifically in the part of:

Nakata thinks that he may be scum who’s buddies told him he needed to do more

Robert showed no cooperation even after returning. If the scum buddies, in a scum!Robert context, asked him to do more, why wasn't there any attempt on his part to argue the charges without AtE? wouldn't scum!Robert be inclined to play in a more controlled way so as not to attract more votes assuming he was being instructed by scumpartners?

[clidd]

Does this trait affect your read on him, Pooky? ^

[clidd]

I strongly recall that you were an really easy townread in that game. But here i just get the impression you’re not doing much of actual towny behaviour as opposed to just kinda being here and making meh content. You’re not even that strong of an presence considering the medium amount of posts you have.
I don’t trust it.
VOTE: Infinity 324

Infinity stills null to me, but I sympathize with your impression about her.

One theory I was thinking about was that this could be purposeful (something like Ircher trying an alternative game), since in my experience with town/scum!Infinity she seemed capable of producing content. But I haven't had time to develop an expressive read on her yet (by play).

Fine push anyways.

[clidd]

I can't read crazy people

Do you have other reads?

[clidd]

Hum (I'm here, reading, btw).

pedit: That's a good question.

pedit²: Oh, ok.

pedit³: Fair.

[clidd]

Alright, I finished catching up.

Nakata gives me mix feelings, probably due to the character, but I've liked his level of engagement with the game (and the discussion on the last few pages).

Not having a townlean/townread there, but I wouldn't mind keeping him alive for now (I also plan to expand on this topic at some point throughout the day).

[clidd]

Yes, Nakata thinks that clidd tends to not be so methodical as scum and to struggle more to maintain his levels of effort, which Nakata is not seeing here. Furthermore, Nakata believes that friend Clidd does not enjoy playing scum very much and yet he seems genuinely happy to be here and to be playing which Nakata also thinks makes him town.

if clidd could respond to this as well that'd be helpful. thanks for the answer, too.

i still think your scumread on Tweetie isn't great, but the one on Ydrasse i like even less, i don't remember you giving justification for why they have an agenda in voting you besides that they're good at scum.

His meta on me is correct.

[clidd]

I mean, I rarely have scum roll, but when it happens, my game is weaker and although I've somewhat enjoyed (to a certain extent) playing as scum on specific occasions, it's actually far more likely that I wouldn't be able to get the same fun as playing as town currently.

[clidd]

So yeah, quite correct.

[clidd]

I don't think that her meta is that suggestive, but there is some motivation for her to be playing like this here.

[clidd]

Regardless, it's a decent vote for information. I'll give a try:

VOTE: Infinity 324

[clidd]

@Infinity

I think you already know what I'm going to ask (reads, impressions, something to help read you, etc)

[clidd]

Extraordinarily towny post, Ydrasse.

[clidd]

I wonder if I did any mistakes in my evaluation of Robert, but I re-evaluated my theory internally about three times (with updated information) and got the same conclusion (town!Robert). So.. No idea what is going on with him.

[clidd]

Assuming the only options are town or scum. Anything outside of that is beyond my capacity to speculate.

[clidd]

Regarding votes/maybe elim, I'm leaning between Infinity and Nakata.

Ircher is not an option for me (although I understand why he is being pushed).

[clidd]

*Mini 2205 flashbacks*

[clidd]

We could policy-elim Robert, but meh.

[clidd]

I know, I'm just reminding that there is this alternative too.

[clidd]

@Morning

Yep, I understand the simplicity with which scum!Ircher could be approaching the "alternative style" angle to try to stay off the radar. The problem is that, like Robert, I don't see a clear picture in my mind of scum!Ircher embracing this strategy (on purpose or not).

[clidd]

I mean, even if scum!Ircher chose this path, it would be evident that he would have to adapt to the fact that more slots are participating more actively in the game (which would eventually highlight him by PoE due to his coasting), therefore, it would make more sense imo if scum!he tried to fit inside the discussion in a more meaningful way, perhaps with pre-created reads (presented in a way that tried to convey genuineness) to "keep" the illusion of participation/scumhunting (something that didn't happen).

[clidd]

Which also makes me think that the occasional sudden appearances probably point to a disorganization that would be harmful to scum!he (and something that scum!he would try to avoid, but town!he probably wouldn't care much).

[clidd]

In other words, scum!Ircher as a scenario would work better if he had changed his stance to avoid being PoE'd, which would include a more organized posting in the sense of "delivering convincing reads", fewer sporadic appearances and a greater interest in being "seen with good eyes" than "hey, I'll do my own thing here y'know".

As I see it, he's not that different since the beginning of the game, so I don't see adaptability on his part (which is what I see scum!Ircher having)

pedit: hi

[clidd]

well, but that's just theory and etc

[clidd]

alternatively, he can just be scum and all of my stuff above is an overthink

I'll take a another look later (sleep now)

[clidd]

Yin

- Are there any truly criminal between
Amy Dunne, Ydrasse and Ircher?

Yang

- Hi.

[clidd]

@Morning

I don't think that Ircher tried anything to "look" towny tbh.

Although he commented at times to add traction to certain wagons, the occasional format he used seemed very strange within game planning. Scum!he would know how scummy that looks.

[clidd]

But, again, maybe you could be right if there wasn't any prior rationalization on scum!Ircher's part on how to approach/adapt to the pace of play and all he's been doing is simply clinging to the narrative of "I'm playing in a different way" as a pretext to maintain an apathetic instance with brief and superficial participations.

[clidd]

After reviewing my theory, I had different results when considering a semi-complacent low cognitive strategic flow on the part of scum!Ircher, but I'm kind of skeptical of scum!he playing in this way and discarding the adaptability. I mean, even if true, meh, he's basically playing with a clock on his head saying "you'll get caught soon" and doing nothing about it.

[clidd]

Pretty boring if that's the case, but I'm fine with he being the elim/going to E-1 to claim (if applicable) if the same posting pattern continues. I won't be in the wagon (obviously), but I won't object either.

[clidd]

Also: VOTE: Satoru Nakata

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

Nakata is willing to VOTE: ircher, Nakata thinks that 108 was primarily filler and also that friend NorwegianboyEE seems like he is town.

It'a curious that Nakata appears as Ircher's first vote.

Not a bad "read" too.

[clidd]

VOTE: ircher

Nakata thinks this is the best option of the players being talked about.

And there was also a big gap of time before he circled back to that vote.

If the impression were false, would scum!he remember that particular instance?

[clidd]

Yep, probably, it's not something *difficult* to do, considering Ircher is a generic option. But something about the way that vote reappeared makes me think that "Ircher" was a topic that had been on his mind for some time and not just a slot that could be used as a miselim (if town) or a last minute improvisation, which would be a sign of "I'm actually thinking about this slot from an uninformed perspective".

Still not enough for townlean/townread (weak theory), but I found it interesting to post (in case I notice other things later).

[clidd]

I'll probably go back to Nakata's wagon, but I would like to take a look here:

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

I don't remember you describing any reads in an expressive way. Have there been any updates to your impressions of the game? (wagons/voters/other stuff that you're thinking)

[clidd]

It isn't necessarily ai for you the comic/no cognitive load posting, but I'd like to see a little more. You don't have to do wallposts or anything like that, but try to answer what I asked you (with a summary, preferably) ^

[clidd]

Clidd, if you're around what do you make of my shenanigans? You seem to be avoiding me this game and I don't like it.

Your posting seems fine but considering the amount of slots in the game I have to put mental effort into reading, I ended up kind of leaving you "on hold" in my brain (with a bigger focus on the others). I believe that town!Flea is not hard to see, so I'm not in such a hurry to engage with you (and if you're scum I should be able to see that too). But if you want to help, it would be nice to see all your reads centralized in a single post (I'm also available if you want something from me).

[clidd]

what do you want to talk about clidd?

Your reads.

First, what do you think about Ircher?

[clidd]

Fair. Do you think there would be any possibility for town!Ircher playing in this way on purpose?

[clidd]

Ok and regarding his iso, which post reflects you as the most scummy?

[clidd]

Actually, I'll put all my questions inside spoilers and then post (It's easier than doing pbp).

[clidd]

@Pooky

Don't worry, these are just a few questions.

Spoiler:

(1) What do you think about Nakata voting Ircher?

(2) Assuming an Ircher scumflip, which hypothetical partners would you have in mind?

(3) What do you think about Nakata?

(4) What do you think about Nakata' initial paranoia on the players who were inside his wagon?

(5) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Nakata's iso?

(6) What do you think about Robert?

(7) Do you see scum motivation in Robert's actions?

(8) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Robert's iso?

(9) What do you think about Chara?

(10) You already played with scum!Chara, do you see any similarities or differences from the current game's Chara to the scum!Chara from your experience?

(11) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Chara's iso?

(12) What do you think about Infinity?

(13) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Infinity's iso?

(14) What do you think about Norwegian?

(15) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Norwegian's iso?

(16) What do you think about Tanner?

(17) Is Tanner outside of his scum-range in this game (in your opinion)?

(18) What do you think about Tanner's insistence on pushing/eliminating Robert?

(19) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Tanner's iso?

(20) What do you think about Ydrasse?

(21) You already saw what scum!Ydrasse looks like, is there any difference/similarity with Ydrasse in the current game?

(22) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Ydrasse's iso?

(23) What do you think about Morning Tweet?

(24) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Morning's iso?

(25) What do you think about Flea?

(26) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Flea's iso?

pedit: ???

[clidd]

1355 can apply to Ircher as well (if he wants to live).

[clidd]

UNVOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear (btw)

[clidd]

Moving on (before going back to Nakata)

VOTE: Infinity 324

Do you have any takes besides Nakata/Ircher?

pedit: I want to know all of those (literally)

[clidd]

@Pooky

If you can't answer everything, focus on the "what do you think about x person" questions first. I'll try to figure out later a way for you to answer the rest without having to type too much.

@Infinity

I want to see your read on Nakata/Ircher/Robert first.

[clidd]

I wonder if Ircher was infected by the same sporadicity as Robert.

[clidd]

I've been thinking about the possible mechanical anomalies that might exist (after seeing the description of previous editions), but at the moment I don't see any strong evidence that such a thing exists (although it's historically likely, as this would hardly be a conventional game). Given the lack of information, however, there is little choice but to deal with these factors as they appear.

[clidd]

I'm also still having trouble understanding what the scum plan would look like (assuming that they have one).

Independently, the discussions have been good and the gamestate is likely to take a more optimistic turn towards game-solving once the weird/scummy slots are out.

[clidd]

Regarding Ircher, I really have no idea what's going on with him, but the conclusion "scum!Ircher" doesn't seem so clear to me, although I agree with his elimination given the lack of cooperation/doubtful motivation (Nakata seems to me more scummy comparatively).

[clidd]

But yeah, an Ircher elim is way better.

[clidd]

Unless something extraordinary happens in his posting that comes across as extremely towny, of course.

[clidd]

I need to ask some specific questions for Infinity, but I didn't feel any malicious intent in the way she's been approaching the game. She's still reserved compared to my experience with town!she, but no scumping on her last set of posts. So, fine. Not super towny or transparent, but fine.

[clidd]

Which means: UNVOTE: Infinity 324

[clidd]

@Pooky

You can select three (or two if you have no energy at all) questions from the questionnaire to answer, the order is not important but the insight in your reasoning is.

[clidd]

@Flea

What's your read on Ircher/Nakata/Robert?

[clidd]

I care about all of them.

[clidd]

I wouldn't ask you something for no reason, Pooky.

[clidd]

I'm also trying to adapt to your conditions.

But if that's the case, you can focus on Chara first (questions about her).

[clidd]

Correction: About it*

[clidd]

@Yin

1290

[clidd]

Yang

- What advice could you give me regarding the game?

[clidd]

Nakata thinks that if he’s right that Morning Tweet is scum then NorwegianboyEE is a likely partner for the way he’s chainsawing Nakata for trying to put the spotlight on Morning Tweet.

Nakata thinks Morning Tweet here looks a lot like Morning Tweet in Royslty!

Could you quote one post from Morning that reflects you as the most scummy in her iso?

And why is Norwegian a scumpartner for defending Morning instead of town that is defending a strong townread?

pedit: Nice.

[clidd]

Good read, I sympathize with your analysis.

It's enough for now, but if you have some time the next questions are 20, 21 and 22 (Ydrasse).

[clidd]

VOTE: Satoru Nakata

[clidd]

Good read, I sympathize with your analysis.

It's enough for now, but if you have some time the next questions are 20, 21 and 22 (Ydrasse).

I have literally mis-read Ydrasse like 11 games in a row and she is very good at pocketing me :<

She feels really town tonally and she's got so much town energy and I know she's been kind of tired of playing scum so she might not have so much energy for it.

btw the last time I read her this way she was scum and rekt me so uh >.> don't like keep that in the bank?

Are these posts outside of her scum range in your opinion?

↓

Spoiler:

VOTE: infinity

i okay with this. my mentality when thinking about infinity went: "oh, i remember i didn't like something she did early game", read her iso, went "oh yeah, i didn't remember this, but it's bad when i'm looking at it again." she doesn't feel like she's... herself, this is hard to describe unless you've played with her a lot. town her is more Here and in the moment, free-flowing and though she sometimes gets flak early game it usually clears up even during d1. and the fact that it isn't happening here is like. ya okay her being off wasn't just a fleeting thing.

i think there's something to be said about satoru's unwilingness to vote infinity and positing her as someone who can be read later, while also... like. to me, the mentality about robert (we should get him out now as he's bait and we will not be able to solve him at all late game and he will just get killed by scum into a loss) (which i think is a scummy mindset in general; i lost a post i was trying to write earlier when my spare laptop's battery died wherein, i felt like satoru did none of the legwork to solve robert and was just fine kicking him over and see what he flipped which is the /exact/ sort of mindset that he's like, talking about will happen later down the line) isn't being extended to infinity, which doesn't make sense because like... what is a mt vote doing right now? why not vote someone you scumlean when there's a wagon on her when it will let 1) town!satoru live longer to do things and 2) fits into the mentality of "well all scum die eventually."

idk. just going like "any scumflip is good even if it's low info lol" and then going "nah better targets atm" when his life is on the line is dumb as fuck. if infinity flips scum i'm going to kill satoru or die trying tomorrow. i haven't felt this confident on my reads since titus v nancy drew and i was on fucking FIRE there.

uh. could you answer that question regarding me first? i've been waiting for you to express a read on me because i think that might be useful for me to read you, but you keep Not doing that.

it's intentional for many reasons but the main for you is because i started off this game really annoyed at you and i thought it better to Not engage like that for everyone's benefit. that and the statement i made earlier about you not reading me correctly was based in the memory of that normal game where you were scum and townread me which like, to me was "why can't he see what he's seeing here"

you're middle of the pack for me right now. i find it harder to discern you through tone because my impression of you as town is like, no offence, a bit messy and all over the place from your notes pts even if you don't put that into main threads for games all the time, here you're more contained.

actually, going through your iso now i don't know if you would continuously push robert unless you're scum with like, satoru/infinity together? it feels like there's stuff People Can Do to look towny when they're scum but doubling down on something that people aren't going for anymore feels like a waste of time and also risks looking performative when it's an... outlier of a read, i guess, or a wagon compared to the competing ones atm, and i don't think that you as scum would continue pushing this just for the sake of it? this is basically boiling down to you're genuine about the robert read. which uh, don't tell anyone but i've been keeping some of my reads close to chest and my robert one's dwindled a little bit because of 1153. in the moment i took his emotion as like, real town irritation but you're right that it looks like a pattern based on pressure, but i disagree that "everyone sounds town" is a scummy mindset bc i just played a game where... like everyone basically sounded town to me and i was floundering lol. i think i'm more interest in limming robert if satoru does flip scum tho bc the strength of the read on just one person feels more like scum only able to pinpoint scumminess in a partner and not into that for d1. also like if we flip robert and he's town like, i still go to satoru most likely and ya. sorry this became another case on killilng satoru.

also despite the tone issue i have w you on this alt 1157 does actually sound like the sort of... floundering that i expect from you as town and idk if you would think to make a post like that on this alt and while pushing something that's not going anywhere. it feels like a moment where you slipped into who you actually ~~are which i think? would be harder for scum!datisi to do.

so, i guess townlean after i sat down and actually thought about it instead of powerleveling in wow

[clidd]

I liked your answers, Ircher, in the sense of evaluative interest.

[clidd]

But the problem is, while the perspective you're addressing doesn't seem to me to come from a scum mentality, I can't quite fit you into a town perspective. It's almost as if the things you're talking about are from a spectator pov and this weird feeling doesn't give me the confidence to advocate for you to stay in the game.

[clidd]

There's also the point that I didn't understand the intent of your play. I've played alternative styles before, all with some goal in mind, but I haven't been able to empathize with your conduct here (especially the selfvote premise).

[clidd]

And, well, you can still, if you like, continue to answer the rest of the questions, but unless there is something outside the curve on your part that demonstrates that you are, in fact, town, I don't see my opinion above changing. I'm just not voting you because I don't see scum!Ircher playing like this (as I've theorized), but I don't buy town!Ircher either given the current circumstances.

So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[clidd]

Yep Amy, something is wrong with this "Ircher thing", but considering we don't read minds, only Ircher himself can clear this up.

The current justification, however, is just unsatisfactory.

[clidd]

Nakata thinks the town should listen to what he’s saying considering Yin has cleared ircher and Nakata was already saying ircher was town who was set up!

Why do you think Yin would always say the truth?

An even if you're town, it doesn't make you 100% correct about every read. That's a weird line of thought.

[clidd]

e-(x/3)<e-1

Wolfram Alpha apparently thinks this is related to the iPods and yellow spectrum colours.

@Flea

What's your read on Ircher/Nakata/Robert?

I don't think Ircher is the correct elimination here, Rival Nakata is certainly one to be on the block today, Roberts AtE efforts have also earned my ire.

---

Yin missed my question, sad times.

Alright, and what do you think about Infinity and Tanner rn?

[clidd]

1700, 1701, 1702 > are directed to Ircher too (if the direction is unclear).

[clidd]

Infinity is annoying null. I can't remember her much this game.
Tanners solid town imo.

Can you mention a post from Tanner's iso that reflects you as the most "towny" and why?

[clidd]

@Pooky

Fair.

Moving on, what can you tell me about Nakata?

Spoiler:

(3) What do you think about Nakata?

(4) What do you think about Nakata' initial paranoia on the players who were inside his wagon?

(5) Which post reflects you as the most scummy(or towny) from Nakata's iso?

[clidd]

I agree with Chara, I don't think it would make much sense for Yin to facilitate the game, especially if we all had organized ourselves to test the consistency of his responses (something that was probably anticipated to avoid unfair advantage).

pedit: Yeah, I had the exact same impression (on the subject of Nakata).

pedit²: Hum.

[clidd]

@Morning No opposition from me about the Ircher elim (although I will stay on Nakata).

[clidd]

So.. No reaction from Infinity?

[clidd]

You can comment on people voting you.

[clidd]

Ok, but you can try to express your thoughts about the players who are suspicious of you (Ydrasse, for example) and whether that makes them town or scum.

[clidd]

Norwee and ydrasse are towny regardless. I think ydrasse is putting in the effort to try to genuinely read me and being more perceptive about my play than I'd expect from scum!her. For norwee it has nothing to do with the read on me it's just a strong vibe throughout his play

Datisi I don't know. I don't really know how to read him.

Can you quote a post from Norwegian and Ydrasse's iso post that reflects you as towny?

[clidd]

Ops, I accidentally duplicated the word ''post''.

Correction: Can you quote a post from Norwegian and Ydrasse's iso that reflects you as towny?

[clidd]

We should lim nakata

I don't know what ircher's doing but I don't see a scum motivation

by the way, this is something i've seen scum do before. when there's a townie being run up, they don't defend them, but once it seems like their wagon is basically a foregone conclusion, they appear out of the void to push someone else. so that when the wagoned townie flips, they get ~towncred~ for defending them and more easily push who they tried to push yesterday.

if we yeet ircher and he flips green, i am heavily looking at these posts.

By extension, take a look at this post ^

What is your impression of it in ai terms? towny? scummy? nai? (if so, why)

[clidd]

Infinity seems to be under the influence of something. I don't think her posting is being forced, but there seems to be some non-visible element that's causing the apathy.

Maybe it's connected to whatever is affecting Robert and Ircher, but meh, hard to say.

It can be mechanical or simply a life setback (outside the game).

[clidd]

Personally speaking, I prefer to keep the pool between Ircher and Nakata.

A wagon on Infinity doesn't look very good in the period of time that we have and there are worse slots than Infinity to elim (more informative too).

[clidd]

If I were to say ''which is the best elim'' between the two (without preference bias), however, Ircher stills comparatively a better elim.

Nakata can be read properly as he is generating content.

Ircher, on the other hand, will likely continue this erratic posting pattern (which is much less readable) and will be a problem if he stays alive in the game.

[clidd]

I mean, our goal is to eliminate scum, but problematic slots can sometimes be more harmful than scum.

That doesn't mean I'm going to change my vote, of course, but looking at the game, impartially, it's undeniable that Ircher is a slot that can't be ignored.

[clidd]

In other words, my mind is like:

Nakata elim -> Better for % of hitting scum;
Ircher elim -> Better for the game;

[clidd]

@Infinity

Ok, don't forget to answer (if possible) my last two questions to you.

[clidd]

I think it's a mix of 1 and 3.

2 doesn't seem likely to me.

[clidd]

[clidd]

My problem with the scum!Infinity theory is that she could've just avoided posting sus stuff like "Ircher towny" and keeping coasting until forced to react to a wagon on her.

[clidd]

I'm not really in favor of it, but the intent to hammer thing and the lack of solving are probably somewhat scummy. His elim might give us info too.

This post, for example ^

[clidd]

Overall the narrative of his play is +town I think

Not that it makes much sense as town, but it makes less sense as scum

Wrong post, i mean this one ^

[clidd]

Why would scum be scum and do scummy things?? ??

Scum is always scum but it's part of the game to avoid demonstrating that they are scum (and that includes trying to avoid posts that are can be seem as scummy). That's basic scumplay.

[clidd]

Sometimes as scum you just feel trapped and can’t do anything because you don’t feel strong enough to beat the town.
Infinity seems like that type of person.

Yep, can occur depending on the person.

Not sure if Infinity is the case.

[clidd]

By your logic scum never makes scummy posts ever in history because scum always avoids doing anything scummy.

Which is why I added "trying".

[clidd]

So Clidd. The scum are who then? MT and Tanner because they never do anything scummy?
Go in league with Nakata then i suppose.

Probably Nakata.

[clidd]

Ok, so what's your point?

[clidd]

No.

[clidd]

Ok, so what's your point?

That i disagree with your: "Infinity is town for making a scummy post" take.

It's fine.

[clidd]

What manner of finding scum do you use if you don’t think mafia are dumb enough to make mistakes and slip up?

Through semi-errors. Players who try to look town but reveal some scumpings/impressions.

[clidd]

Also varies with other factors.

[clidd]

I wouldn't say it's the most effective, but it's a set of own methods that I'm comfortable using.

[clidd]

holy shit this is like pulling teeth

How sure (%) are you on Infinity being scum?

[clidd]

Sorry, I'm not seeing.

But I wouldn't mind being wrong if an Infinity wagon materializes in elim (and also a scumflip).

[clidd]

Infinity E-2.