Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sup nerds and jester and marci

I'm mason

With Dwlee?
VOTE: dwlee99

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The kid was cuter

Who is the kid? A saudade avatar?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm mason
VOTE: SSBM_KYOUKO

1 for 4, I'm onto you now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: looker

@looker any reason u havent lay down a vote?

Hello.
It's 5am here, and I'm spending the day decorating:(

VOTE: Titus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^quotes are because I thought geraint also wasn't voting, was wondering why manatee did not ask geraint. But I had forgotten 59, thought geraint only made 1 post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Triple M threat

Ma Ma Mia

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^quotes are because I thought geraint also wasn't voting, was wondering why manatee did not ask geraint. But I had forgotten 59, thought geraint only made 1 post

But you voted

Titus

instead of

ManateeDude

.

Because as I said in that post, i forgot that geraint had made post 59 wherein they voted. I do like the max/marci/manatee pool though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We can't say

lynch

; it's forbidden.

Also, Titus and ssbm_Kyouko are dating. Congrats!

I'm married, but are you hinting at something game related with this?

Also VOTE: Marcistar masons unite on this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Disagree. Hilarious.

Disagree with your disagree

VOTE: Looker

[ssbm_Kyouko]

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

{Looker, Roden, ???}

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Everything up to 172 is RVS, but in no way does it try to get out of RVS

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

I think scum's getting restless with RVS and is waiting for someone to make a move they can pounce on

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Here there is a believable attempt to start solving, but since then, feels like a good amount has happened that Roden could be commenting on, especially given they feel RVS is going on too long

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

But instead of continuing to look for solving info they're making a busy post.

VOTE: Roden

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Women = Roden, and I'm not switching because I like owo more. The cliqueyness was half-assed. It can be re-attacked later.

We get it, you're either scum claiming or you're a PR trying to hide yourself with scumminess so you don't get NK'd. Whatever, moving on.

{Looker, Roden, ???}

I'm sorry, what?

Everything up to 172 is RVS, but in no way does it try to get out of RVS

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

I think scum's getting restless with RVS and is waiting for someone to make a move they can pounce on

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Here there is a believable attempt to start solving, but since then, feels like a good amount has happened that Roden could be commenting on, especially given they feel RVS is going on too long

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

But instead of continuing to look for solving info they're making a busy post.

VOTE: Roden

Because I didn't comment on everything and instead want to know how serious an accusation is, I'm scum?

It's not so much about what you did, but what you didn't do.

As for you and looker I had individual SRs on you both but then your response to his 220 could be an SvS interaction so it makes me feel better about both reads, especially so for early game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your response to 219* not 220

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Titus I need some

hot opinions

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm down for town reading Kyouko, if only because her reasoning for scum reading me is so bad I don't think scum would try it.

do u usually play like this..?

Like what? Her accusation is completely unreasonable. Let alone hypocritical since she hasn't commented on everything either.

Let me take you through the reasoning again since you seem to not follow, based on you a) saying my read is unreasonable and b) calling my read hypocritical.

1. Roden's ISO up to 172 seems content to participate in RVS.
2. Roden, in 172, complains that RVS is going on too long. Conclusion: Roden wants to move the game out of RVS. Up to this point, the thought process tracks. You

were

fine to participate in RVS, but now you are tiring of it.
3. In 173, immediately afterward, you ask omo how serious their hero solve is. In good faith, this can be seen as an attempt to get the conversation moving

away

from RVS. To this point, your purported stance on RVS and your actions still track with one another.
4. Things of interest that could be commented on occur while you are offline

Spoiler: The things that happened, raw quotes, no context

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

This isn't the answer of my question and their posts are either NAI or fluff so far.

UNVOTE: geraintm

VOTE: OMO

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

Also VOTE: Marcistar masons unite on this

spoilered image removed from quote by ssbm_Kyouko

I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?

vote whoever.
im voting looker because i felt like the whole "waiting on max" thing was just them making excuses to not post. and my vote kept, because i don't really like his posting following manatees questioning them.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

don't think what they've been doing is really scummy rn, the game was not really serious and they seem to have been trying to drive it into serious zone.

Max has reacted alright to the few votes thrown at him actually

[color=8040FF]I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?[/color]

hate this post.
+1 on my scum index

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

looker looking like a good policy lim on top of the fact i dont really dont TR them at all

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Why are Women voting Titus? Is she a misogynist?

tbh, i remember reading the vote count.. and i was just confused who women was because i dont remember there being someone named that.. am i remembering wrong?

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

I confused owo with Manatee - it's all pink and blue

"cliquey" are u saying thats scummy..? whats making you want to use that to go after her instead of me..?
and, if ur confusing owo with manatee, why did u not switch onto manatee once u realized this mistake?

5. In 218, when you return, your immediate post is "Didn't get an answer to this." Your question was directed at omo, and if you had read to know he didnt answer you, you would have also seen he was husy engaging with one of the scumreads in his hero solve. A more appropriate follow up for town that was tring to sort omo would be to comment on his interaction with Max, or follow up with a question asking him to explain his read on Marci or Manatee, as it seems clear that he is serious about Max, and by extension, should be serious about the others.

In my opinion, you should have been commenting on the action from 4. 218 is the kind of post that scum makes to give the appearance they are genuinely scumhunting: "look everyone, when he didn't answer my question, I didnt forget about it. Call me town because I'm following through with this" - I used to do this as scum all the time. I would re-iso myself constantly and make sure everyone had answered my questions and if they had not, I would get loud about it. Because a lot of people will form scumreads because "this person is asking questions but isn't drawing meaningful conclusions", or "... but doesn't seem to care when they go unanswered"

There is the reasoning.

a) My read on you is not unreasonable.
b) The basis of my read is that you did not comment on things that could take the game out of RVS when you purport to be tiring of it. There is nothing hypocritical about my read, because I did not say I was tiring of RVS (though I was, and was having difficulty forming reads), and am bringing something that gets the ball rolling instead of doing very little about it and trying to make it look like I am doing more than I am.

To say my read is hypocritical is to show that you are not trying to understand my thought process. If you had tried to understand it, you would have known what my issue with you was, and you would not accuse me of being hypocritical. It shows you are thinking at a shallow level by reducing my read on you to "Roden didnt comment on everything so he is scum" and trying to flip that reduction around on me and call me hypocritical for not commenting on everything.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm down for town reading Kyouko, if only because her reasoning for scum reading me is so bad I don't think scum would try it.

do u usually play like this..?

Like what? Her accusation is completely unreasonable. Let alone hypocritical since she hasn't commented on everything either.

Let me take you through the reasoning again since you seem to not follow, based on you a) saying my read is unreasonable and b) calling my read hypocritical.

1. Roden's ISO up to 172 seems content to participate in RVS.
2. Roden, in 172, complains that RVS is going on too long. Conclusion: Roden wants to move the game out of RVS. Up to this point, the thought process tracks. You

were

fine to participate in RVS, but now you are tiring of it.
3. In 173, immediately afterward, you ask omo how serious their hero solve is. In good faith, this can be seen as an attempt to get the conversation moving

away

from RVS. To this point, your purported stance on RVS and your actions still track with one another.
4. Things of interest that could be commented on occur while you are offline

Spoiler: The things that happened, raw quotes, no context

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

This isn't the answer of my question and their posts are either NAI or fluff so far.

UNVOTE: geraintm

VOTE: OMO

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

Also VOTE: Marcistar masons unite on this

spoilered image removed from quote by ssbm_Kyouko

I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?

vote whoever.
im voting looker because i felt like the whole "waiting on max" thing was just them making excuses to not post. and my vote kept, because i don't really like his posting following manatees questioning them.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

don't think what they've been doing is really scummy rn, the game was not really serious and they seem to have been trying to drive it into serious zone.

Max has reacted alright to the few votes thrown at him actually

[color=8040FF]I want to change my vote, who should I vote and why?[/color]

hate this post.
+1 on my scum index

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

looker looking like a good policy lim on top of the fact i dont really dont TR them at all

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Why are Women voting Titus? Is she a misogynist?

tbh, i remember reading the vote count.. and i was just confused who women was because i dont remember there being someone named that.. am i remembering wrong?

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

I confused owo with Manatee - it's all pink and blue

"cliquey" are u saying thats scummy..? whats making you want to use that to go after her instead of me..?
and, if ur confusing owo with manatee, why did u not switch onto manatee once u realized this mistake?

5. In 218, when you return, your immediate post is "Didn't get an answer to this." Your question was directed at omo, and if you had read to know he didnt answer you, you would have also seen he was husy engaging with one of the scumreads in his hero solve. A more appropriate follow up for town that was tring to sort omo would be to comment on his interaction with Max, or follow up with a question asking him to explain his read on Marci or Manatee, as it seems clear that he is serious about Max, and by extension, should be serious about the others.

In my opinion, you should have been commenting on the action from 4. 218 is the kind of post that scum makes to give the appearance they are genuinely scumhunting: "look everyone, when he didn't answer my question, I didnt forget about it. Call me town because I'm following through with this" - I used to do this as scum all the time. I would re-iso myself constantly and make sure everyone had answered my questions and if they had not, I would get loud about it. Because a lot of people will form scumreads because "this person is asking questions but isn't drawing meaningful conclusions", or "... but doesn't seem to care when they go unanswered"

There is the reasoning.

a) My read on you is not unreasonable.
b) The basis of my read is that you did not comment on things that could take the game out of RVS when you purport to be tiring of it. There is nothing hypocritical about my read, because I did not say I was tiring of RVS (though I was, and was having difficulty forming reads), and am bringing something that gets the ball rolling instead of doing very little about it and trying to make it look like I am doing more than I am.

To say my read is hypocritical is to show that you are not trying to understand my thought process. If you had tried to understand it, you would have known what my issue with you was, and you would not accuse me of being hypocritical. It shows you are thinking at a shallow level by reducing my read on you to "Roden didnt comment on everything so he is scum" and trying to flip that reduction around on me and call me hypocritical for not commenting on everything.

This is way too long winded for you to just confirm that you think I'm scum because I didn't comment on everything. I'm literally trying to follow up on a question I asked and because I didn't also live react to everything else along the way, I guess that means I have to be scum.

I really don't know what else to tell you. The amount of shit you want me to comment on is extremely unreasonable, and I'm the only one you're trying to hold to such a standard.

Not saying you needed to comment on every post in the spoiler, that would be unreasonable. I did expect to see something different from you from context though - something that matched the context of omo's interactions with Max at least, or a comment on one of the other subjects under discussion.

I'll assume since you're now saying that expecting you to comment on everything was unreasonable that you're no longer saying the push itself is unreasonable and leave it at that for now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Who do you mean by "the people calling [Roden] out"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Who do you mean by "the people calling [Roden] out"

you

Well I am full on scumreading Roden and I thought I made that clear, so unless I'm remembering my own posting wrong this feels like a misrepresentation - not that I disagree that Roden seems defensive.

Tbh I expected you to say "me and marci" as in manatee and Marci, or just Marci, or maybe dwlee as they appear to be sheeping and not directly calling out Roden.

To me it feels like you're taking advantage of the situation here.

Unfortunately when we were scumpartners I dont think you had long to post in the game before T3 bussed you. But I'm going to be checking on that.

Pedit do not claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@roden I mean, dont claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And my impression on DGB replacing in is that I may have had a sour taste about Looker and will be reconsidering them. If I had to label them rn I'd say nulltown

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And my impression on DGB replacing in is that I may have had a sour taste about Looker and will be reconsidering it. If I had to label it rn I'd say nulltown

EBWOP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@kyouko do you know who I am yet btw, if so let's townblock here :3

No idk who you are

But I do think saudade is town. You I'm not sure of yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Manatee

sorry kyouko i think roden prob town here

Okay, saudade, manatee are 2 town down I think. I was ready to vote manatee earlier too. Are scum not posting? Dwlee/Titus/?

? Could be max but i was in both her previous games and i can say with certainty that entrance is nai.

VOTE: titus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tbh I forgot about geraintm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tbh I forgot about geraintm

who

Am I posting in the wrong game? The guy that was doing the remodel in his house in like, Wales?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nah I'm not crazy hes in this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Roden i think ur theorycrafting bc ur reading into normal interactions on a way deeper level

You mean like me who you sheeped in voting Rowen?
VOTE: manatee

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also marci and manatee are suddenly distancing here, again not what I was expecting to see

[ssbm_Kyouko]

roden i think ur focusing on theorycrafting instead of reading.

u responded defensively to a vote on you. marci didnt respond in a way i scumread regardless of whether it was objectively good or bad

This reads like theorycrafting is a bad or scummy thing that you are pushing Roden for. Roden asked what theorycrafting was and you defined it. It sounded like what I did in my wall read on Roden, and you sheeped that read.

So Roden is scummy for theorycrafting, but you sheeped my theorycrafting. So you say one thing and do another.

Also you are quite clearly distancing now, because before you two were being all buddy buddy and TRing each other, then shortly after you even said "am I letting Marci pocket me? Maybe" which pinged me then but I thought I'd let that go on the off chance you two are playing a weird style of masons, but with distancing that is happening now I don't entertain that as a possibility anymore. You're both both pretending like it never happened lmao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Watching Roden's hero solve flip 3 for 3 is going to be amusing tbh

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Or was it omo's hero solve actually

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i didnt think the TRs were meant to be taken seriously given it was like the first page. i didnt think i presented theorycrafting as inherently scummy but that i thought he should focus on reads instead of drawing on weird interpersonal theories that were pretty flimsy in their reasoning

Maybe you didnt think it but the way you two were acting looked to me like you were town treating each other as town, or one or both of you were scum. You two were building off of each other and there was no evidence of suspicion between you.

You did not directly present theorycrafting as scummy, but it read to me that way. Maybe I'm not reading it correctly. If you thought he should be focusing on [individual] reads instead of pre-flip associatives, I feel like you dont come up with this term "theorycrafting" that you give an entirely different definition to. You just use the terms that already exist for this purpose. Were you aware of the term "pre-flip associative" when you made the initial theory crafting post?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Women = Roden, and I'm not switching because I like owo more. The cliqueyness was half-assed. It can be re-attacked later.

We get it, you're either scum claiming or you're a PR trying to hide yourself with scumminess so you don't get NK'd. Whatever, moving on.

This mentioning PR part seems TMI.

I don't understand how this seems TMI. How'd you come to this conclusion? The rest of your posting tracks, but this doesn't for me.

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

Upon skim the Titus vote stands.

In the last game she was the same, but you were more chatty, what change?

I have less to say and my eyes are glazing over on half of these posts.

VOTE: Dwlee
I think your attention span is better than you'd like us to believe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Town
Salsabil
DGB
Roden
omo
Saudade

Townlean
Not_Mafia

Null
Titus
Geraint

Limbo
Marci
Manatee

Scum
Max
Dwlee

This is where I'm at. Take my TRs with a grain of salt though because I'm generally bad at identifying town and better at finding scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you think I'm lying when I say my eyes glazed over a lot of the posts this game?

Yeah, that's why I said I think you have a better attention span than you'd like us to believe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't have a good attention span. I don't know what from ever playing with me would make you think that.

To pull a T3, [redacted]

Maybe that I post so much from 8-5 EST on weekdays is any indication?

So you mostly play at work is what you're saying, right?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Kyo
This might be scum. The inattentiveness thing is a very strange thing to push me on and I think town!Kyo knows I sometimes am just like that.

I know vibe checking is punishable by death at this point, but man the vibes on this read feel off. Do you really think Kyouko should go just because she made a push on you?

Uh no and I don't think this is a good faith attempt at repeating back what I said at all.

You only need to catch scum slipping in one way to catch them. I just don't think town!Kyo would push me on "you're lying about your attention span." If it was a chess move the engine would put a big ol ?! next to the move.

towny thought processes, good engagement and pretty good reads dont really fall apart too well under "oh well she should know i dont pay attention"

She specifically pushed me for something she knows I do. That's scummy, idc if she posts a lot of words.

I think you're overestimating how well I know you. We've played 2 games together and have 1 ongoing if I'm remembering right. I died N1 in the game I was town and the game I was scum was a train wreck for my scumteam. So I've had one D1 to read you in completed games and I cant go into detail about the ongoing one. I think in he one I was town in that you ended up being scum and winning as the last living scum.

But I do think you have displayed a comprehension in the past that you are not showing now, and I think it's intentional.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh wat saudade replaced?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

To pull a T3,

I don't think T3 is ever living that down. Poor guy.

What did I miss?

In a recently ended mini normal t3 claimed a guilty on his scum buddy while he was traitor. Promptly got nightkilled.

To pull a T3,

I don't think T3 is ever living that down. Poor guy.

What did I miss?

In a recently ended mini normal t3 claimed a guilty on his scum buddy while he was traitor. Promptly got nightkilled.

i was said buddy

And I shot t3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also a lot of the pushing on me felt like they wanted me to out who my mason partner was cause it obviously wasn't Saudade.

And okay I'll admit I'm not actually a mason but Kyo got totally pranked and y'all are being ridiculous.
Pedit: well you, Titus, and Kyo are all terrible votes

I got pranked in FIA WRC, this is not a pranking. I decided after that game that on policy I'd never assume you were a mason again. Being wrong all.thise times might have actually paid off though since from where I'm standing it looks like you were trying to get me to think it again in this game, which is probably just scum trying to buddy me. And it hasn't worked so now you're scrambling to turn it around on me because the push on you "feels like it's trying to get you to out your mason buddy". I dont think anyone thought you were a mason.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

Then if we can’t talk about an ongoing game it shouldn’t be alluded to. Is there another way to imply what you mean without skirting rules?

I said directly what I mean. I thought dwlee was lying about their eyes glazing over, like making up an excuse for why they're not very involved right now.

I'm not going to lie about being diagnosed with inattentiveness for mafia. If you think I'm scum whatever but that reason is absolutely awful.

I don't think you're lying about a diagnosis, but I do think you're not as in the game as you would be if you were town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: oʍo

Ooh but why? I dont recall you amongst those sussing omo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh and then she was like "oh let's consolidate here" with again no real thoughts on me. Titus is just evil here.

I also dislike dwlee and give them a scum point. It was clear Titus had some role and they were pushing their elimination.

Salsabil 3
Dwlee 1

I thought Titus was talking nonsense as scum tbh. Still babysitter kills it's target if the babysitter dies, right? So Titus is not an option. It's a liability for scum to leave her alive too long as the poe gets smaller and it's more likely she'll hit one of them. Killing her puts us on evens so I think she's a likely target.

I am feeling less sure of scum!dwlee but am not convinced by a salsabil wagon at all.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm still on manatee

Yeah I'm thinking about that. I had a similar feeling to salsa, need to read manatee over and figure out if your case accurately depicts her posting, especially the last paragraph you posted

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: marcistar I would come to manatee as well because I think this "limbo" in my reads is one scum buddying town/trying to create partner equity with town.

Manatee has better upsides in her posting. I also feel like Marci's vote has generally been wasted this game and that is where scum likes to sit when town eats each other up. Others are also guilty of this.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

geraint is town

I think he is not. Why do you say this?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Roden, could I just get a reads list from you rq, I just wanna see where you are at.

Dwlee and Kyouko you too.

I wanna help consolidate today and starting with just listening to people I most townread atp is gonna help

I'm going to trust that my TRs are right and that N_M can read geraint and take him out of the pool for today. Marci, Manatee, Max is my pool right now.

Roden, omo, mathblade, salsa, DGB, all town
Titus off the table
Dwlee unsure, willing to accept he is town for toDay
N_M I dont think I can read him in my first game.with him but he seems town and some other people say that too. Apparently he can read geraintm as well...
So geraintm off the table for toDay, because I think the compromise is not going to happen there.

Leaving Max, Manatee, and Marci. I'd like to lim Max because she seems useless as town and as scum she lurked to the end in my last game with her and won, but I think there is something fishy between Marci and Manatee and I'd really like to go with either of them today. I feel like at least 1 is scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Salsa, omo
Kyo, DGB, Math
NM, Marci, Max
Roden
Geraintm
Titus
Manateegal

Was my old one
Now I feel more like

Omo
Kyo, DGB
NM, Max, Salsa
Roden, Geraintm, Math
Titus, Marci
Manatee

Max above Roden???

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i think i'll vote marci based on her repsonse to rodens questioning cos i think it was very good

Dont put her to e-1 yet, not_mafia will lolhammer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

To be fair max probably deserves to be null on my list, I'm quite focused on manatee/marci and max sits down there still because she was there before

Pedit: oh okay well, hmm. I think Roden is town, I guess is all I can say. What do you mean he's "being weird" with you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Greg the e99 gonna get fried

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm getting paranoid about my read on Marci. Like on one hand, I'm starting to doubt it after her defense because it was pretty reasonable, and looking through her ISO all of what she said checks out. And the wagon on her built surprisingly quickly before I could even make a full scum case, which feels off. But on the other hand, she's openly admitting to using scum tactics, she isn't pushing her biggest scum read, and I get a sense she's doing her homework to make sure everything she says checks out, which kinda conflicts with her overall vibe and demeanor that she's putting across. Like, using a lot of emojis and hearts, but then making passive aggressive statements.

"blatant distancing" i started distancing with manatee after i suddenly didnt like their vote, wow really a big shock how i dont wanna continue buddying someone i dont agree with anymore
but if yall think that distancing can only come from scum honey u got a big storm coming for ya <3

This specifically pinged me a lot. There's a lot of tonal dissonance in her posts but this is stands out the most to me.

UNVOTE:

please lets find a viable counterwagon I dont want marci anymore after that wallpost

Bless your beautiful souls VOTE: manatee

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: I don't even know with this game anymore. Theres a hole in my reads somewhere.
I guess I could do max
VOTE: max

Pedit: Roden I think omo was voting Marci while she was he wagon and the same post you thought was townie from Marci, he thought too. So did I.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Fuck it what about this iso?
Desperately flocking to the prevailing wagons seemingly for no reason, assuming they're both town, 962 is the perfect time to make that post as scum. You get the towncred but also the prevailing wagons are TvT and it's safe to do so.

No content. Flip-flops onto town wagons without reason. Tries to scoop up low-hanging towncred. Yeet

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I summon the powers of roden, omo, manatee, and Marci to turboelim this scumbag. It's partner can bus it with the 6th vote and not_mafia can hammer for the lulz

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: I don't even know with this game anymore. Theres a hole in my reads somewhere.
I guess I could do max
VOTE: max

Pedit: Roden I think omo was voting Marci while she was he wagon and the same post you thought was townie from Marci, he thought too. So did I.

Yeah that's what's getting me here. What do you think of OMO and Math? Same with Marci and Manatee? You're voting Max but are you against a Manatee vote?

Omo and you are my strongest TRs.
Mathblade I think has felt townie, and saudade was firmly town for me.

Marci and manatee I thought there was buddying and distancing involved, but aside from.her wasted.vote and that I dont really have reason to SR her. And I think I can read her tone is town. I identify with her posting and I know the feelings she's posting are real. Manatee will sort out, not feeling good about eliminating her today either. Both of these wagons were too easy. Yes there is a block of voters that are somewhat in agreement, but there was no resistance, so I dont think either is scum right now.

I was kind of POEing onto max because I was feeling lost. I've reexamined the nullish slots though and I have an obvscum to serve up for dinner now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

DGB is now e-1 with Math and Titus votes. Max still vanity voting, and dwlee is with DGB in voting Roden.

I think the rest of the vc is the same. Geraint and salsa voting salsa, and N_M voting themselves.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh and for some reason omo is not in the last vc but is still voting manatee

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think omo doesnt want to hammer his buddy tbh. Someone hammer DGB and we can look at omo on a red flip. I don't think he has any reason to TR Looker or DGB in his iso on a quick skim, and they are arbitrarily "right above" his poe along with Titus. He was content to compromise with his townreads on Marci or manatee but is now suddenly scrambling to get a wagon somewhere else so close to deadline.

I think it's just the opposite of what hes saying about Roden as well. Omo is the one sowing the discord. We need to stand strong on DGB and flip omo tomorrow if DGB flips red.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What funny is omo has been with me in voting Roden, manatee, and Marci, but did not vote dwlee when he was a strong wagon and is now not hammering DGB, nor does Dwlee hammer DGB. In fact they are both counterwagoning DGB by trying to push Roden.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont think normally that scum commits this hard to grouping together in wagons, but in this game it does make sense, if you are perceived as part of the townblock. I just think the places where omo has wavered are pretty telling and it doesnt feel like a coincidence that Dwlee, the notorious sheep he is, is also unwilling to hammer DGB.

Cut and dry hero solve - owo, dwlee, DGB/Looker

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can vote DGB but fmpov it'd be more of a meta thing than a this game thing which makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't know if <thing that I want to know if DGB justifies its play with>

My thoughts remain this. Convince me homie.

If you're not scum with omo you're going to want to read your and hus combined iso and realize you're going to get mislimmed if omo and dgb are scum, because it looks like they're scum with you. So if you hammer DGB now you might salvage something and save us a mislim.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I have been scum on the other end of town!omo's pushes before and I gotta say I'm not getting the same vibes from omo I did when I was scum and he was SRing me on Taco Hemingway in FIA WRC.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Aw come on people, I haven't been able to pay attention to this game, my course is way more involved than I anticipated, I was prioritizing other games since this one was just starting and unfortunately I can't even give it the attention it deserves for another week.

All I can ask for is a reprieve. I am even going to be gone all day today visiting friends that live two hours away , leaving in a minute, my husbandis alreadyoutside waitingfor me. Titus you of all people should understand that life can get in the way, I am disappointed.

The lack of a pr claim here is the claim dwlee - this is posted shortly after titus and mathblade put DGB to e-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i can be friendly if need be

@kyouko i trust your judgement here, so give me a little longer to be friendly and it'll do both of us a lot of favours

I was damn near town locking DGB due to Looker, but that is a good point about DGB's posts. Last game I was with DGB I ended up tunneling them to the point I tried to Vig them, but they also played way differently in that game. They've been extremely inactive and not really trying to make any waves this time around, possibly just coasting on the town read Looker forged for them. Re-evaluating Looker again, I also remember thinking they were trying to look scummy on purpose. It made me think they were either too scummy to be scummy and maybe had a PR, or they were gambitting we would assume TSTBS. I should've had them null in my reads list tbh.

I think I'm actually fine with this wagon.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: DGB

Ditto.

Oh and not sure if anyone saw a recent WWF ad? It’s so cute I just have to share it.



Show love to people <3

Wonderfriends unite!

Not sure if dwlee or omo comes first.

Wonderfriend manatee, what do you think?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh you ninjad me
VOTE: omo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Surprised that I didnt die for that soft lmao, maybe scum thought manatee would switch targets or that Titus would sit me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

conftown

voters that were on the end of day DGB wagon and are not confirmed

confscum

Left myself yellow for everyone's convenience

Votecount 1:

DrippingGoofball

(3):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

Titus

(2):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2):

MathBlade

, MaxTheFox

ssbm_Kyouko

(1): Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
geraintm (1): Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (1):

omo

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 2:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (2):

MathBlade

, Dwlee99

Titus

(1);

Roden

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

omo

Votecount 3:

omo

(4): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria,

DrippingGoofball

,

MathBlade

Roden

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

DrippingGoofball

(2):

marcistar

,

Titus

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

ManateeDude

(1):

Roden

Votecount 4:

Dwlee99 (4): Salsabil Faria,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Titus

,

ManateeDude

ManateeDude

(2):

omo

, Dwlee99

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

Roden

Votecount 5:

marcistar

(5):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

DrippingGoofball

omo

(3): MaxTheFox,

ManateeDude

,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 6:

marcistar

(4):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

MathBlade

(MathBlade added to the Marci wagon in this VC quote because they voted Marci shortly afterward and were on the wagon at its height)

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm

Votecount 7:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Fariua

marcistar

(1):

MathBlade

omo

(1): MaxTheFox

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Roden

(1):

DrippingGoofball

Votecount 8:

DrippingGoofball

(7):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

,

Titus

,

MathBlade

,

omo

Roden

(2):

DrippingGoofball

, Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Faria

omo

(1): MaxTheFox
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Key notes I take from this are that Titus and Marci were on DGB slot early in the day and that when Marci was a wagon, Titus was not on board. I think if there was a bus on D1, it was in omo/MathBlade. Titus was also on the dwlee wagon, and although this is pre-flip, I do think this points further toward town!Titus. MathBlade's reason to vote DGB was "Ditto" that of Titus'. Titus states she TRs everyone on the wagon. This is in line with her play throughout the day. MathBlade, however, was on the Marcistar wagon so I'm going to look back at how he got off of that wagon, because he did pile on to the Marci wagon late and with little reasoning iirc.

I'm locking Marci and Titus for now. Killing Roden could be trying to frame dwlee. Max, geraintm, Salsabil, and Not_Mafia all have weak voting histories D1 and should be inspected toMorrow at the latest. And the points against omo/dwlee/DGB voting patterns still stand.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

conftown

voters that were on the end of day DGB wagon and are not confirmed

confscum

Left myself yellow for everyone's convenience

Votecount 1:

DrippingGoofball

(3):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

Titus

(2):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2):

MathBlade

, MaxTheFox

ssbm_Kyouko

(1): Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
geraintm (1): Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (1):

omo

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 2:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (2):

MathBlade

, Dwlee99

Titus

(1);

Roden

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

omo

Votecount 3:

omo

(4): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria,

DrippingGoofball

,

MathBlade

Roden

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

DrippingGoofball

(2):

marcistar

,

Titus

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

ManateeDude

(1):

Roden

Votecount 4:

Dwlee99 (4): Salsabil Faria,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Titus

,

ManateeDude

ManateeDude

(2):

omo

, Dwlee99

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

Roden

Votecount 5:

marcistar

(5):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

DrippingGoofball

omo

(3): MaxTheFox,

ManateeDude

,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 6:

marcistar

(4):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

MathBlade

(MathBlade added to the Marci wagon in this VC quote because they voted Marci shortly afterward and were on the wagon at its height)

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm

Votecount 7:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Fariua

marcistar

(1):

MathBlade

omo

(1): MaxTheFox

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Roden

(1):

DrippingGoofball

Votecount 8:

DrippingGoofball

(7):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

,

Titus

,

MathBlade

,

omo

Roden

(2):

DrippingGoofball

, Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Faria

omo

(1): MaxTheFox
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Key notes I take from this are that Titus and Marci were on DGB slot early in the day and that when Marci was a wagon, Titus was not on board. I think if there was a bus on D1, it was in omo/MathBlade. Titus was also on the dwlee wagon, and although this is pre-flip, I do think this points further toward town!Titus. MathBlade's reason to vote DGB was "Ditto" that of Titus'. Titus states she TRs everyone on the wagon. This is in line with her play throughout the day. MathBlade, however, was on the Marcistar wagon so I'm going to look back at how he got off of that wagon, because he did pile on to the Marci wagon late and with little reasoning iirc.

I'm locking Marci and Titus for now. Killing Roden could be trying to frame dwlee. Max, geraintm, Salsabil, and Not_Mafia all have weak voting histories D1 and should be inspected toMorrow at the latest. And the points against omo/dwlee/DGB voting patterns still stand.

I've no problem, what do you want to know?
I was pissed of and wanted to replace out but also I didn’t want to take any decision out of rage, so to cool myself off, I took a break. And my self-vote meant f*** y'all.

Nothing in particular right now, but you, geraintm, and Not_Mafia were notably distanced from the DGB wagon by a lack of interaction, and either of your self-votes, or geraintm's vote against you for self-voting, could be construed as ways to keep yourselves off of the DGB wagon because you hoped it would disband like the other wagons of the day.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

I'm not sure I agree with Titus's babysit. Not that it's scummy to defend manatee but I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar.

@Titus

, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

I'm assuming, but just want to confirm: you are not talking about manatee, right? Just a yes/no answer, I'm not looking for details on

who

you would tunnel.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Max
I'll just plop my vote here cause idk if they even gave an opinion on dgb

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i dont think salsabil and geraintm would be teamies
i think geraintm is the more scummy of the 2.

I think the same of these 2. Not partnered, but geraintm on salsa is an easy way to make a busy vote while DGB dies. That's a very basic assessment of the vote itself though, I can see them being TvT.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

kyouko, address my points please.

I'm still catching up on the current events before going back to look at the counterwagon you say you dissolved and before reading any of the linked game.

Is there something else I missed? Also, who was the wagon you dissolved, so I can find that part of the game easier?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

I'm not sure I agree with Titus's babysit. Not that it's scummy to defend manatee but I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar.

@Titus

, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

I'm assuming, but just want to confirm: you are not talking about manatee, right? Just a yes/no answer, I'm not looking for details on

who

you would tunnel.

If I was scum, I would have tunnelled Manatee yesterday as scum here. Since you’re not looking for details I won’t give any.

would you have tunneled them before or after they pleaded to me they could get friendly?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votecount:

• omo (4): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria, DrippingGoofball, Saudade
  Roden (4): ssbm_Kyouko, omo, Dwlee99, ManateeDude
  DrippingGoofball (2): marcistar, Titus
  Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia
  ManateeDude (1): Roden

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

VOTE: dwlee99
why'd you sheepe me bro

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

Everything up to 172 is RVS, but in no way does it try to get out of RVS

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

A Death Neighborizer!?

Deez Nuts

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

I think scum's getting restless with RVS and is waiting for someone to make a move they can pounce on

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Here there is a believable attempt to start solving, but since then, feels like a good amount has happened that Roden could be commenting on, especially given they feel RVS is going on too long

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

translation: stop wagoning my partner for wrong reasons

Hero solve: Max + Manatee + Marci

How serious is this?

Didn't get an answer to this.

But instead of continuing to look for solving info they're making a busy post.

VOTE: Roden

The way Marci reacted to me pushing on them feels towny in retrospect, I was just a bit taken aback at the time when they were not suspicious of me which made me feel like there was TMI at play but at the end of the day scum leans towards actually questioning people who are FoSing them.

I'll sheep you for now kyouko VOTE: Roden

VOTE: omo

VOTE: Rodent
Kyo town?

I am masons with your mum

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Not_Mafia

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

He's the only one who is actually trying to play the game.

Scum!Not_Mafia is usually happy to troll.

I'm down for town reading Kyouko, if only because her reasoning for scum reading me is so bad I don't think scum would try it.

do u usually play like this..?

Like what? Her accusation is completely unreasonable. Let alone hypocritical since she hasn't commented on everything either.

i dont think its unreasonable, you seem a bit held back this game
do you usually play so go-with-the-flow held back type of style?

I've literally never played a game with you before? What are you talking about here?

And haven't you just been memeing all game and brushing off every accusation toward you?

VOTE: Marcistar

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

VOTE: ManateeDude

So you're saying you're not paying attention and just sheeping the first player to make a detailed scum read? And your own justification for voting me is that I'm "defensive"? You might as well be scum claiming tbh.

Mmm, I'm assuming you're talking about the roden wagon omo?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have concluded... you did not derail the roden wagon. Roden's interactions with me and manatee are why I stopped SRing him.

However, it does seem that you came to the same conclusion though, and I remember when I read that string of posts that it reinforced my TR on you when I saw you had posted what I was thinking.

In rereading, I'm noticing manatee, omo, and I all seem to have concluded Roden was town. But dwlee does not. Instead he says hes having trouble reading people so he's sheeping and follows me to titus.

What are your reads dwlee?
VOTE: Dwlee99

[ssbm_Kyouko]

To be clear, omo posted that he thinks roden is town before I unvoted, but I was doing a catchup on the posts that had occurred since my last post and decided Roden was probably not scum. I did see omo's post before moving my vote, but it did not influence me moving my.vote. It did influence my read on omo.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not a reads list no, not really. And that's fair enough, I know we all 3 were voting Titus and I think saudade was first to it, but I dont recall which of us went there first.

4-5 pages is hardly "a couple posts", but what do you think that means for marci?

1139 feels like a start from you at least. Why dont you think omo will flip scum as of your 1106?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not a reads list no, not really. And that's fair enough, I know we all 3 were voting Titus and I think saudade was first to it, but I dont recall which of us went there first.

4-5 pages is hardly "a couple posts", but what do you think that means for marci?

1139 feels like a start from you at least. Why dont you think omo will flip scum as of your 1106?

Off topic:
I just clocked out and am heading to my personal PC. I was abrupt earlier with some answers because lunch break. I have some questions for you when I get there did you want me to expand further or did you get what you needed?

On topic:
Iirc it was you (will double check in a moment) you were suspicious of Titus’s babysit claim but it makes sense to me. Can you expand on that? I am trying to figure out if Titus’s recent answer unsettled me because she’s scum or it unsettled me because of a misunderstanding in the moment.

I did not find what you showed Titus, but I dont want anything more out because i thought it was to do with Manatee, but I think if I didnt find it that it wasn't to do with her so let's leave it alone.

Yes it was me. Do you want me to expand on my suspicion, or what I thought of Titus's answer? Or something else?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not a reads list no, not really. And that's fair enough, I know we all 3 were voting Titus and I think saudade was first to it, but I dont recall which of us went there first.

4-5 pages is hardly "a couple posts", but what do you think that means for marci?

1139 feels like a start from you at least. Why dont you think omo will flip scum as of your 1106?

Off topic:
I just clocked out and am heading to my personal PC. I was abrupt earlier with some answers because lunch break. I have some questions for you when I get there did you want me to expand further or did you get what you needed?

On topic:
Iirc it was you (will double check in a moment) you were suspicious of Titus’s babysit claim but it makes sense to me. Can you expand on that? I am trying to figure out if Titus’s recent answer unsettled me because she’s scum or it unsettled me because of a misunderstanding in the moment.

I did not find what you showed Titus, but I dont want anything more out because i thought it was to do with Manatee, but I think if I didnt find it that it wasn't to do with her so let's leave it alone.

Yes it was me. Do you want me to expand on my suspicion, or what I thought of Titus's answer? Or something else?

Well I kinda have to touch at what I was saying and it does involve Manatee but only what she has already claimed not what I think she likely did.

What I want to ask is if you think her responds with the songs etc make sense in combination with babysitting Manatee or not.

So both? Expand on the suspicion and Titus’s answer.

I want to combine that with some of Dwlee’s responses. I think what they are saying is incongruent and I kinda wanna see what’s what.

I'm not sure if they make sense - not because I suspect her answer, but because I don't understand the conversation that was going on with the Demi Lovato songs, even with the explanation. I'm assuming the one you posted was meant to be some kind of question, but I don't understand the question, even with the context of Titus's explanation of what her answers meant.

As for my suspicion, I think I laid it all out in my question in 1152:
"I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar."

I was hoping to hear Titus had some other perspective that I had not considered, but from her answer she says she just accepted the risk of being shot. It's the kind of answer that doesn't make me feel any better about the decision, but there is nothing scummy to point to in the answer (at first). Rereading, this part sticks out to me:

@Titus, why did you choose to babysit Manatee? What was the thought process?

Manatee was a widely suspected slot. I wanted it to be alive to correct the beliefs about themselves or worst case he'd die and it would be dispelled.

The protect was about the day play

. I knew the risk and did it anyway.

The protect was about the day play. I don't recall there being anything spectacular about Manatee's day play. To my recollection, she didn't ever make her own case, always built on others's cases. Not sheeping, but never making something entirely new either. She was also flexible it seemed. I've heard of protects being useful on town players that are hard to persuade, because the only thing scum can do to stop those players is night kill them, but this doesn't resonate with me. I feel like, for the risk to seem worthwhile, there has to be something particular that stands out about the day play, given the situation.

The situation being:
Titus' Babysitter claim is out in the open
Manatee had softed (but essentially claimed) she was a FN and she was going to target me.

I think if the reasoning was that she wanted Manatee to live on as confirmed townie to take the suspicion off their slot, that it makes sense to babysit some third party (meaning NOT me or Manatee, not the alignment) nullish slot that could be scum. A Babysitter is enticing to shoot as scum when the numbers are in your favor and it's unlikely the Babysitter will be targeting a scum player. N1 after scum has died D1 is the ideal time to do this, when only 2 of the Babysitter's 11 targets are scum. It's only an 18% chance to hit scum, and an 82% chance to get 2 town kills for 1.

If I were scum here though, and knew Titus was town, I'd be thinking Titus' dayplay is not very convincing at the moment and she may be a good mislim for later on or even all the way in xlo because she has a reputation as a cunning scum player. So I can see scum a)not shooting Titus and b)not shooting manatee or I in fear that town!Titus would be sitting one of us.

I don't think I've come to any conclusion here that stands out above the others. I do find the answer suspicious, but I think it's reasonable to expect scum to not shoot in {Titus, Manatee, Kyouko} last night. What is interesting though is that Roden was shot. I think if we had a deepwolf firmly in the townblock that he (or anyone in the townblock) would not have died, to keep the block strong.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

conftown

voters that were on the end of day DGB wagon and are not confirmed

confscum

Left myself yellow for everyone's convenience

Votecount 1:

DrippingGoofball

(3):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

Titus

(2):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2):

MathBlade

, MaxTheFox

ssbm_Kyouko

(1): Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
geraintm (1): Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (1):

omo

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 2:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria
MaxTheFox (2):

MathBlade

, Dwlee99

Titus

(1);

Roden

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

omo

Votecount 3:

omo

(4): MaxTheFox, Salsabil Faria,

DrippingGoofball

,

MathBlade

Roden

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

DrippingGoofball

(2):

marcistar

,

Titus

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

ManateeDude

(1):

Roden

Votecount 4:

Dwlee99 (4): Salsabil Faria,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Titus

,

ManateeDude

ManateeDude

(2):

omo

, Dwlee99

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

Roden

Votecount 5:

marcistar

(5):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

DrippingGoofball

omo

(3): MaxTheFox,

ManateeDude

,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 6:

marcistar

(4):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

MathBlade

(MathBlade added to the Marci wagon in this VC quote because they voted Marci shortly afterward and were on the wagon at its height)

omo

(2): MaxTheFox,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm

Votecount 7:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Fariua

marcistar

(1):

MathBlade

omo

(1): MaxTheFox

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Roden

(1):

DrippingGoofball

Votecount 8:

DrippingGoofball

(7):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

,

Titus

,

MathBlade

,

omo

Roden

(2):

DrippingGoofball

, Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (2): geraintm, Salsabil Faria

omo

(1): MaxTheFox
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Key notes I take from this are that Titus and Marci were on DGB slot early in the day and that when Marci was a wagon, Titus was not on board. I think if there was a bus on D1, it was in omo/MathBlade. Titus was also on the dwlee wagon, and although this is pre-flip, I do think this points further toward town!Titus. MathBlade's reason to vote DGB was "Ditto" that of Titus'. Titus states she TRs everyone on the wagon. This is in line with her play throughout the day. MathBlade, however, was on the Marcistar wagon so I'm going to look back at how he got off of that wagon, because he did pile on to the Marci wagon late and with little reasoning iirc.

I'm locking Marci and Titus for now. Killing Roden could be trying to frame dwlee. Max, geraintm, Salsabil, and Not_Mafia all have weak voting histories D1 and should be inspected toMorrow at the latest. And the points against omo/dwlee/DGB voting patterns still stand.

I've no problem, what do you want to know?
I was pissed of and wanted to replace out but also I didn’t want to take any decision out of rage, so to cool myself off, I took a break. And my self-vote meant f*** y'all.

Nothing in particular right now, but you, geraintm, and Not_Mafia were notably distanced from the DGB wagon by a lack of interaction, and either of your self-votes, or geraintm's vote against you for self-voting, could be construed as ways to keep yourselves off of the DGB wagon because you hoped it would disband like the other wagons of the day.

As scum, I usually look for towncred.
Do you really think me and the decorating guy are scums???

Not both of you, but one of you, possibly.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I babysat ManateeDude last night. Got work. Will try to post tonight.

Ditto with work.

I have like 0.002% doubt of Titus’s claim and imho she should be treated as conf town even though she is not dead. I think she saw what I was trying to tell her and why Roden probably died. I am not sure how to explain it though without outing really nice snuggly PRs that you bring sugar and spice to.

I think Titus’s babysit was a really good move.

Btw I see what you’re getting at ssbm but as scum I 100% tunnel a certain player for cred here who is pretty much an open PR and force them to claim and then put Titus in a dilemma of if they protect the PR or not.

I had known that this other player was a PR for a while and had been trying not to talk about them.

I'm not sure I agree with Titus's babysit. Not that it's scummy to defend manatee but I would be afraid that i would get shot because a) I'm a claimed babysitter and b) the target I was looking at babysitting was essentially a claimed FN. I would expect scum to shoot me and i wouldn't want to let scum kill 2 PRs with 1 shot.

I guess the idea is if manatee was lying she's scum and if I get shot I take scum with me, but its risky when manatee can clear herself the next morning anyways. If anything, I would wait to babysit manatee until N2, if the person manatee claims to have FNed N1 died N1, or if they FNed a possible buddy like marcistar.

What is FN?

FN is friendly neighbor and in case you or anyone else missed it I received a pm last night confirming that Manatee is town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

targeting babysitter is dangerous no matter what and im of the belief mafia missed my soft

It seems that way but it could easily be scum that

ignored

your crumb to make it appear that they missed it.

Missed the crumb:
{Max (newb), Salsa (English as a second language), Not_Mafia (not_reading)}

Ignored the crumb:
{Dwlee, omo, Titus, MathBlade}

Marci/Geraint, I don't feel confident putting them in either category. Either way, I think if one scum missed the crumb they both did.

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.
UNVOTE:

I agree with like 90% of your prior wall post. I still think if there is a deep wolf they could kill Roden here. Saying more or why stops what I am hunting for.

This post however I find very “off”.

I don’t really think there should be a “missed” or “ignored” category.

Assume Faria is scum. Their buddy could have seen the crumb and interacted with it and then Faria posts asking what a Friendly Neighbor is.

Two, assume I am scum (incorrectly) you can’t seriously tell me that I would be in the ignore column when I have a post telling Titus who claimed babysitter to look at post 45 (which has town buddies -> common FN crumb, page 40 the “friendly” and page 41 where I post a WWF video that has protecting Manatees midway through. Like you could argue I am in the ignore category but you really would need a third category for deliberate manipulation here.

Three, the more I think about it the more I don’t like this sort at all. We don’t know who the scum are or what they are thinking yet. Using the Roden kill I could paint almost anyone as scum. But I think we learn more from who scum push.

Four, why are these wagons that stalled TvS yet you’re treating the D1 wagons with Marci and Manatee as TvT?

Fifth, I am pretty unsatisfied with your answer. You seem like a deep player. I get gut vibes Titus is town but a lot better argument Titus is scum is that she argued protecting Manatee was about day claim yet she says she saw the FN crumbs after I pointed them out and was “taking a risk” making her answer about day play wrong or her answers about the video are wrong.

1. I already mentioned in the original post that if 1 scum missed the crumb, they both missed it. I thought it was implied that I understood that if 1 scum missed it and he other saw it that they would discuss the crumb in the pt.
2. This assumes that I have all the info you have. I did not piece together what you were trying to say to Titus in that post, and this is the first time you have explained in no uncertain terms what that post meant. I also did not watch any of the videos you or Titus posted. Tbh it felt bordering on code the way you were communicating with songs but it seems like the video titles were the key. I assumed I wouldn't understand whatever you two were trying to say because you're siblings. I might understand what my brother (who also has asperger's) was trying to say to me, but I didn't expect to get anything from the videos, so I didn't try to.

It also seems ignored is causing some confusion. I meant, ignored the crumb when deciding who to night kill, in order to direct suspicion at others who actually missed the crumb. The split of groups in the post is just WIFOM. In this case it helps divide the suspects though and I think is actually useful, whereas usually it is not.
3. I stand by the sort. I agree Roden kill can point to anyone, but generally it points to one group of suspects
or another based on the reasoning we believe scum had to kill Roden.
4. I see these as TvS because of the pairings on the wagons. Max and Salsa are both in the "missed" category. Omo and Dwlee are the "ignored" category, and are also implicated with DGB via D1 wagons. Marci is not the subject of either of today's wagons, so there is no parallel to the Manatee vs. Marci wagons, and I never implied there was one.
5. If that's what you think, you can push her on it. I told you I didn't understand what you two were trying to say to each other with the videos.

How much experience do you have Kyouko? And why do I get the feeling I have played with you before?

I think we have played before. Maybe you replaced into a game I was in. I can post my games when I get back to PC from a notepad I keep on them.
It would have been years ago as i took a long break from the site and recently started again.

And also why are you continually shading Titus yet never voting her?

It’s giving me major pings.

I am still trying to sort you so I'm engaging you as though you are town so we can talk through thought processes and I can decide if yours are real or not. I think Titus is town, but I think you are suspicious of her, so it behooves me to try to see it from your pov in case I am missing something. If you're both town, in doing this I can also hopefully get you to agree Titus is town and strengthen the core. I am seeing things from your POV that I did not notice the first time. I am concerned that you see my posting as shading though, when it is clear that 1) your questions are leading, and 2) I am having a discussion about the validity of her claim, not trying to case her or shade her. It would do us no good to have this discussion if we weren't going to explore the possibility that she was lying.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you're trying to manipulate me into voting Titus with the leading questions tbh. I dont know if it's scum or controlling town though.
Titus, or anyone else with mathblade experience: is this something he tries as town? To "lead a horse to water", as it were, and dichotomize the horse based on whether they drink?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How much experience do you have Kyouko? And why do I get the feeling I have played with you before?

I think you played with me once a long time ago. I took a long site break but I have only two accounts, this and an alt that I only played under the influence on, and as I don't smoke or drink anymore I haven't played the account since return from my site break. I suppose it doesn't matter if it's out at this point - "Big Lungs DK".

These are my main account's games, with roles, personal results, and team results. I did not track BLDK's games. It's also not updated with my most recently completed games yet, but I didn't play with you in those ones for sure.

01. Mini Normal 1850 - VT - Eliminated Day 1 - Town Win
02. Newbie 1752: Wave - Replaced Town JK - Killed N4 - Town Loss
03. Open 659: Jungle Republic - Vanilla Townie - NKed Night 1 - Town Loss
04. Birds of Paradise - Goon - Flawless Mafia Win
05. Newbie 1764: Wind - Replaced Goon - Flawless Mafia Win
06. Mini Normal 1857 - VT - Eliminated D5 LimLo - Town Loss
07. Open 660: White Flag - VT - Eliminated D4 - Town Loss
08. Mini 1860 - Town 1-Shot Commuter - Vigged Night 2 - Town Win
09. Micro 661: Scumteam unpick - Replaced VT - Eliminated D1 - Town Win
10. Newbie 1766 - VT - Endgamed - Town Loss
11. Open 663: Stack the Deck - VT - Killed Night 1 - Town Win
12. Large Normal 200 - VT - Vigged N2 - Town Win
13. Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir - VT - Vigged N3 - Town Loss
XX. Mini Normal 1874 - VT (replaced out D1, overgamed) - No Contest
14. Mini Normal 1865 - VT - Endgamed - Town Loss
15. Code Geass - Shinichiro Tamaki (Town) - Venged D1 - Town Win
16. Timeshift Mafia III - VT - Eliminated D2 - Town Win
17. Open 668 - Diffusion of Power - Mafia Goon - Scum Loss
18. Civilization Mafia - Barbarian (Mafia) - Scum Win
19. Elemental Trinity (Hydra with Alisae) - Usurper (Mafia) - Scum Win
20. Mini Normal 2053 - Mafia Goon - Scum Loss
21. Mini Normal 2057 - Town Mason (Replaced Out mid-way) - Town Win
22. Mini Normal 2213 - VT - Town Loss
23. Mini Normal 2216 - VT - Town Loss

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: dwlee yay it's not dead - do think it's possible dwlee is intentionally associating himself with omo as the sheeping is always unidirectional.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

Oh yeah VC 4 further reinforces that salsa and dwlee are not aligned, possible TvS, and with the pairing of Salsa/Max vs Dwlee/omo, it could be town!salsa vs scum!dwlee.

I also dont see dwlee bussing today after D1, but Max has no momentum as only omo is really pushing her. It would be a safe time to vote Max to reinforce associatives with omo and Distance from scum!Max

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am not suspicious of Titus which makes me suspicious of Titus. I struggle to read Titus properly most games and usually hunting her directly gets me just angry her angry and leads to a big blow up and just bad. Pretty much based on her play I wanted to lock her yet you didn’t want to lock her which means I should hear you out. I think your argument is weak (being generous). My questions are leading but they are more towards sorting you sorting her to get a read on Titus and you.

I completely disagree with what is going on here wagon wise.

Assume your premise that the current wagons are TvS. Why do you not want to elim in them? Instead you’re picking a third wagon Dwlee. This means your entire solve would be Dwlee+Max/Owo. This doesn’t seem to jive with what you’re posting.

I kinda feel like this is a TvTvT shitfest and deep wolf(ves) don’t want to hop on for cred.

Titus is also posting very incongruent shit.

She cannot say that Max v Omo is TvS vote Dwlee then say a scum is in Me + Omo.

If we assume Max scum then Dwelee scum then no room for me scum
If we assume Owo scum then Dwlee scum then no room for me scum.

I think it’s more likely as day progresses we are looking for a deep wolf. This doesn’t add up,

I'm thinking the wagons right now might actually both be on town because dwlee is the scum that is trying to make omo look guilty by association, and conversely, trying to make himself look inno if omo ever flips green. Dwlee is one scum, muddying the waters with omo, and the last scum (assuming we have 3 in 13p) is distanced.

If this is not the case then I expect town!dwlee to come up with something more convincing on their own. As for the last scum, I'm not sure. Since dwlee is in the "ignored" camp, and I think omo is bait, and salsa-dwlee are not aligned, I think that leaves [geraint, N_M], maybe Max if Dwlee is looking for cred, you (Mathblade), and maybe Titus/Marci if my VCA of D1 is wrong.

You, I think, are looking for deep wolves in Titus, me, and Marcistar, but I think we have clear scum in Dwlee here and I am concerned that you, as a potential partner, seem ignorant of that.

If you expect to die toNight then deepwolf hunting may be worthwhile for you, but I think Dwlee is priority #1 today.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don’t think Dwlee is “clear scum”. They angered me and would be a policy hammer but I don’t think they’re scum. They’re not top tier townread and I would hammer to prevent a no elim but pissing me off does not merit a vote.

Furthermore I don’t think I ever die here. I have the charisma of wet tissue paper, I am working on it but if I die I consider it protown if I do die then scum kill me for a reason.

If Dwlee turns out to be scum and I was wrong then I accept my miselim fate tomorrow I just don’t see them as scum atm.

I'm not even saying that you die if dwlee flips red, it's just a point against you if you ignore it and then he flips red. I think actually that I was close with {DGB, Dwlee, omo}, and now that it has become more clear that dwlee is associating himself with omo, it looks like {DGB, Dwlee, geraintm/N_M}.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also something that pinged me about dwlee was the tinfoil hat image he responded to me with, back when I was talking about how I'll never assume he's a mason again.

Felt more like a mock than a meme, but this probably means nothing to anyone else

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Titus, Marci, Manatee, Me is the block, and omo/mathblade are like auxiliary to the block.

Does anyone in the block listed (not the auxiliary) disagree with the block?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also don't care that you didn't ask me

Don't really care that you answered, it's just that I'd say a block is only a block if every member considers every other member a part of it. So for it to be a block including me it cant include you or Math atm, with the doubts I'm having

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Titus, Marci, Manatee, Me is the block, and omo/mathblade are like auxiliary to the block.

Does anyone in the block listed (not the auxiliary) disagree with the block?

I veto you believing this because you expressed sus on Titus so this feels fake.
I also don’t like you didn’t like me commenting on it while still calling me town.

...Okay? I do believe this. I don't think you're following that the discussion I was having with you around Titus was more meant to sort you and see if I have a blind spot. I'm not suspecting Titus.

I have degrees of confidence. You and omo are above the town line but below the townblock cut-off.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also something that pinged me about dwlee was the tinfoil hat image he responded to me with, back when I was talking about how I'll never assume he's a mason again.

Felt more like a mock than a meme, but this probably means nothing to anyone else

Your theory was that I fake claimed mason to specifically buddy

and then push you

. Even if I was mafia I don't think I plan that far ahead.

I don't remember the bolded. I think it was more that you fake claimed mason specifically to buddy, and when that didn't work, you switched gears. I did not think you had a long-term plan to fakeclaim mason and then flip on me. The intent was just to buddy imo.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

For context I have mistaken Dwlee for a mason like 3 games in a row. So he would have a reasonable expectation that I might think so again.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

pedit: these wagons are giving me the spooks. omo and dwlee voting together, and Max and Salsa voting together, cross-voting
TvS wagons I think.

i dont think scum would wanna wagon together so openly. do you think they would?

I think now that its scum!dwlee making himself associated with town!omo. Third scum is someplace else off the DGB wagon - most likely geraint or N_M. I dont think it was a bus D1.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, I just think if you're scum that Max and Salsa are town, so until I'm not convinced you're scum I'm less focused on her.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It doesn't, but it is possible that I will.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

something feels weird

Yeah something is definitely weird.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

The first vote on Max- clearly not RVS.

This is my third game on MS. My previous two games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642 - Scum. Proud of this one.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913 - Town. Not proud of this one because I was busy and lurked and made myself sus.

nobody cares

Saudade seems aggressive toward Max already

I disagree that Lookers behavior is town indicative, if anything its just his personality trait and his prefered way of expressing himself

Saudade here is saying Looker's behavior is NAI, but a shift is coming

I dont like not mafia, which in my opinion is a great basis for elimination who in?

I object.

Saudade then looks to set up Not_Mafia as an alternative to Looker, and omo objects. Good to see from omo, not joining the counter to scum!Looker

Propose an alternative

Now Saudade is again fishing for something that will stick to take the pressure off of Looker. This seems odd since purportedly he sees Looker's behavior as NAI. Rather than looking for a specific scum as an alternative to a wagon he doesnt SR, it seems like he's more interested in

any

wagon as an alternative, even if he doesnt have a reason for it.

Votecount:

• Looker (3): marcistar, ManateeDude, Titus
  Titus (2): Roden, ssbm_Kyouko
  omo (2): Saudade, MaxTheFox
  ssbm_Kyouko (1): Dwlee99
  Salsabil Faria (1): geraintm
  geraintm (1): Salsabil Faria
  MaxTheFox (1): omo
  Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Spoiler: Votes Since Last Votecount

I'm mason
VOTE: SSBM_KYOUKO

ive decided im townreading u

can we be townbuddies? :0

yes yes ofc ofc, tho we cant let the mafia know

I know

VOTE: salsa Bill

ive decided im townreading u

can we be townbuddies? :0

yes yes ofc ofc, tho we cant let the mafia know

I know

VOTE: salsa Bill

This is my real name which you're mocking without my permission, not cool buddy!

UNVOTE: Saudade

VOTE: geraintm

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

VOTE: looker

VOTE: looker

@looker any reason u havent lay down a vote?

VOTE: looker

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

VOTE: looker

@looker any reason u havent lay down a vote?

Hello.
It's 5am here, and I'm spending the day decorating:(

VOTE: Titus

Adding the VC for context of where the votes are at right now.

VOTE: maxthefox

Saudade is now voting Max as the alternative to Looker immediately after the VC where it shows omo was voting Max. It looks to me like Saudade is sheeping omo now because omo was not willing to sheep him on an alternative to Looker.

I forget what is happening this game and I'm not rereading what's good.

Vote maxthefox, its good

VOTE: Max
Okay

Here's Dwlee now following Saudade onto Max. I'm not sure if I buy that partners band together to counter wagon the third scum unless the third scum is a PR, and we've seen Looker flip goon. So dwlee I think is unlikely to be scum with MathBlade.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

I don't see a consensus, I see a RVS wagon.

Above are the two responses from Max onto her wagon.

max's response to votes on her is weird

We know manatee is town now, and I agree they do seem weird.

max's response to votes on her is weird

Well I'm not panicking because the votes were piled up during late RVS. What did you expect me to say? Honest question.

Yet another response to the votes. Again it is a weird thing to say

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

This is actually a good response I think, finally. At the time I read it, I thought it seemed foolish, but I actually think that might be a town tell for Max. I might have to reread to see if she sounds like this in her scum game.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

again this kind of naive posting could be seen as town!Max

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

This though I'm hesitant to say is towny. Feels like an imitation - I just dont know if "I'm happy to lock my vote onto you" sounds quite natural coming from her.

Max has reacted alright to the few votes thrown at him actually

Maybe Saudade saw what I'm seeing now, but I feel like in the moment it is much easier to see that Max's responses are not great. Without meta of Max this feels like a TMI. It could be an attempt to pocket a perceived weak town player who can be dragged along to limlo.

VOTE: dwlee99
why'd you sheepe me bro

We are literally masons

touche

This is a weird interaction. I don't think it's theater but it doesnt feel right. I think the issue is with Saudade here.

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

I think Looker is TMIing N_M town here maybe. Now that the pressure has shifted to Max and then dissipated from her, Looker needs some place to go and N_M is potentially a town here that Looker is reaching out to since so many of the other town players have already been voting him.

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Finally this shows that N_M saw all of this in the moment which shows good depth of thought. I'm happy to say he's town.
--
I grabbed these posts to analyze the counterwagon to Looker, which I thought would point toward Saudade, but I'm not so sure. I actually think it could point to either of them.

I'm going to have to read Max's ISO from other games

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Didn't catch up fully but my reads are formed, might as well.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Reads (this is sorted within tiers):

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
MathBlade (this was Saudade) - his attempts at solving earn him a lot of good boy points.
Salsabil - kept up the good tone.

TOWN LEAN

Manatee - gut read remains.
Not_Mafia - read stayed.
Dwlee - 50% meta read on this, dubious, I'm not locked onto this in any way.

NULL

marcistar - barely there. Lurker.
ssbm - just generally doesn't ping me as

anything

.
Titus - same.

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.

SCUM BIN

omo - see the previous list, except their accusation of a scumclaim is serious now apparently.

---

It's easier for me to townread than scumread people, I found.

Weewooweewoo sound the alarms
VOTE: Max

In actuality I skimmed her iso in the other games she posted and I think this is clearly scum!Max.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If it's not clear why Mathnis town on red flip, it is that Saudade moved the wagon from Looker to Max, and Looker/DGB flipped Goon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also with Manatee as townlean on a gut read it is evident she isn't reading, and the placement of Salsabil I'd say is questionable at best. Also, I dont ping them as anything??? That seems odd to me. They also have geraintm low on their list which is convenient considering the geraintm-salsabil dynamic and the plausible association with Salsabil

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

Spoiler: quotes related to omo

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Also when I SRed her D1 she asked me to explain it and I never really did and she just dropped it. I also found these gems:

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

So arbitrarily she will meta one player but rely on others for Dwlee. Her response is that Dwlee's activity is a point against him, which reads as a scumlean but I think should indicate a townlean considering he was more talkative as scum and is now less talkative. Weird choice of words, but it's ESL so maybe it's nothing.

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo. I feel like

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

This is just a lazy faked read on dwlee and a lazy scum looking for the VC to find where to vote

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

Now it's tone, not activity, by the way.

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

she seems like she's been pretty confident in dwlee as town all game until a wagon started up on him, pretty interesting.

There's also several stabs at rolefishing in her relatively short ISO which you'll want to read anyway to get an idea of the other, non-omo interactions she has had.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo. I feel like she is content to stay here because my case on DGB/Dwlee/omo made omo viable toDay.

EBWOP- forgot to finish thoughts on this quote

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Max/salsabil/DGB-Looker

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

[Progressionless post until MaxTheFox arrives]

Why are you waiting for her?

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

Hi guys!

VOTE: Saudade

*Visibly overreacting*

*Visibly ignoring*

NM, Salsa, and Saudade are also town. Manatee is another potential mafia.

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

This isn't the answer of my question and their posts are either NAI or fluff so far.

UNVOTE: geraintm

VOTE: OMO

Also, VOTE: owo - she's pocketing Not_Mafia, and her and marcistar are being cliquey. Fight the power. End the oppressive regime.

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

He's the only one who is actually trying to play the game.

Scum!Not_Mafia is usually happy to troll.

Yup I read a random other game of his (Baseball) and he played in a similar way there and was town, that's another reason I trust NM.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

The way Marci reacted to me pushing on them feels towny in retrospect, I was just a bit taken aback at the time when they were not suspicious of me which made me feel like there was TMI at play but at the end of the day scum leans towards actually questioning people who are FoSing them.

I'll sheep you for now kyouko VOTE: Roden

Umm, what happened in between??

seeing this level of depth of thought from you is refreshing because it tells me you're very likely town as I correctly vibed you out to be, although I may not necessarily agree with your conclusions(I'm partially convinced? I like what you noticed but I had Roden as town so I'm a bit biased towards not being wrong xD), I think the thought process you are displaying is towny.

You are not reading my posts at all, seeing as you still think I don't have any reasoning for Looker

Your reasoning for

Looker

slot mainly NAI, vibe + gut isn't enough to strongly townread anyone.

Town
Salsabil
DGB
Roden
omo
Saudade

Townlean
Not_Mafia

Null
Titus
Geraint

Limbo
Marci
Manatee

Scum
Max
Dwlee

This is where I'm at. Take my TRs with a grain of salt though because I'm generally bad at identifying town and better at finding scum.

Explain your scumread on me.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Wait, where is

OMO

?? They suddenly vanished!

UNVOTE: Dwlee99

VOTE: OMO

What a hypocrite pl!!
When I was voting

OMO

and

Dwlee

, either I was completely ignored or they were strongly townread by others which made me back off a little and I decided to sheep others. But now I am not town to all of you because I went against

Titus

or to your precious M3 group, which you guys want to eliminate???
You guys deserve each other, not gonna post anymore, screw yourselves!!

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Read-list

Town:

ssbm

,

Math

,

Titus

,

Roden

Scum:

Dwlee

,

OMO

,

goofball

Rests are null now, will be changed after the D1 and N1 flips most probably.

What a hypocrite pl!!
When I was voting

OMO

and

Dwlee

, either I was completely ignored or they were strongly townread by others which made me back off a little and I decided to sheep others. But now I am not town to all of you because I went against

Titus

or to your precious M3 group, which you guys want to eliminate???
You guys deserve each other, not gonna post anymore, screw yourselves!!

UNVOTE: Marci

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

Read-list

Town:

ssbm

,

Math

,

Titus

,

Roden

Scum:

Dwlee

,

OMO

,

goofball

Rests are null now, will be changed after the D1 and N1 flips most probably.

Using my expertise on AtE, I judge this self-vote as town frustration.

and now we just play the waiting game of waiting for Max to show up and explain their lack of interaction with DGB

Hmm...

VOTE: Max

[ssbm]
[mathblade, titus, marci]
[Dwlee, Salsa]
[geraint, N_M]
[Max, omo]

i have like two weeks of english work I need to do so I'm going to be away from thread for quite a while

LMAO!

OMO

is going hard for

Max

, remember?

I guess Manatee thinks there's cross-bussing going on or something?

I didn't interact with DGB because DGB was lurking. That's all, I had nothing to build off of.

[ssbm]
[mathblade, titus, marci]
[Dwlee, Salsa]
[geraint, N_M]
[Max, omo]

i have like two weeks of english work I need to do so I'm going to be away from thread for quite a while

LMAO!

OMO

is going hard for

Max

, remember?

I guess Manatee thinks there's cross-bussing going on or something?

Which is a weird thing to think

What if it’s

Max

and

geraintm

? 2 lurkers

and max since we're all here how do u feel abt salsa, specifically her vote on you?

Salsa, like Dwlee, is town to me. And her vote is also similar to Dwlee's: misguided townie.

Do you really trust the person who accused me of scumclaiming, pointing to a random post, and didn't explain it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So yeah Salsabil is now getting on the early bus of Max I think to try to ride towncred amongst the block. Also Salsabil, Max, and Looker are hilariously tunneling on omo, it's kind of absurd. I think DGB realizes on replace in that's kind of a dumb play and does the weird vote/unvote spam on Not_Mafia and Distance from Max and Salsa's stances on omo.

There are some pretty damning associatives between Max and DGB. When seeing my readlist that has Salsa and DGB as town, and Max as scum, she only cares to ask me why I SR her, even though she has DGB as scum that needs to come post. She should also be asking why I TR DGB if she is town.

She also posts frequently about DGB needing to post more but that she is giving DGB a pass for now - easy to shade your partner and not vote them.

There is also an unusual amount of focus on dwlee in he ISO and it took me a little bit to figure it out but ironically I think they thought he was a mason and were trying to buddy him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

omo and Dwlee99

I have to say that’s the funniest case I have read? Seen?

I would prefer a case with words and logic please.

Inb4 the next image posted has another suitcase with the words "words and logic" on the suitcase

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ugh mobile messed up the formatting

My point is I don’t see what you’re talking about with Saudade?

Oh didnt see this one, I was looking for my analysis of the Looker counterwagon onto Max to show manatee why I think not_mafia is town, as that bit is snuck in at the very bottom and I expect she might have skipped some of it since it's long-winded and manatee is already convinced of Max.

Saudade was appealing all around and throwing names out for wagon candidacy when Looker was being wagoned, while expressing Looker's posting that others SR him for was NAI. Saudade couldn't get anyone else on board with his candidate and sheeped onto the Max wagon. Moving from Goon to scum!Max doesn't make sense for Saudade if he knows Looker is a goon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[snipped]

Don't like how quickly Saudade has let go of his hate boner

Finally this shows that N_M saw all of this in the moment which shows good depth of thought. I'm happy to say he's town.

@Manatee - may not be convincing but it's something amongst their posting that seems AI

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I'm tunneling because I don't have many SRs besides omo. I didn't call anyone in my last towngame misguided town because the push on me there was valid: I was lurking. And in what way did I post more in Screaming? Read that game again, I was silent for most of D1.

Personally I think the misguided townie phrase is one you've adopted when TMIing town that are pushing you. The posts you make in Screaming are more full of content. You interact with many slots, and show thought processes that indicate you're trying to solve the game. Here, you have a few insignificant interactions outside of those that push omo, and those that do push omo are not doing it in the same way that you posted in your towngame.

Also with Manatee as townlean on a gut read it is evident she isn't reading, and the placement of Salsabil I'd say is questionable at best. Also, I dont ping them as anything??? That seems odd to me. They also have geraintm low on their list which is convenient considering the geraintm-salsabil dynamic and the plausible association with Salsabil

How is it evident I'm not reading? It's literally a vibe read.

Manatee is conftown so if you'd read you would have seen that.

Responses in bold.

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

Spoiler: quotes related to omo

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Also when I SRed her D1 she asked me to explain it and I never really did and she just dropped it.

You never pushed me again after that.

I also found these gems:

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

So arbitrarily she will meta one player but rely on others for Dwlee. Her response is that Dwlee's activity is a point against him, which reads as a scumlean but I think should indicate a townlean considering he was more talkative as scum and is now less talkative. Weird choice of words, but it's ESL so maybe it's nothing.

Yeah I admit I worded it poorly.

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo.

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?

I feel like

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

This is just a lazy faked read on dwlee and a lazy scum looking for the VC to find where to vote

I wanted a VC because I wanted to see how close people are to hammer.

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

Now it's tone, not activity, by the way.

Por que no los dos?

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

she seems like she's been pretty confident in dwlee as town all game until a wagon started up on him, pretty interesting.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...

There's also several stabs at rolefishing in her relatively short ISO which you'll want to read anyway to get an idea of the other, non-omo interactions she has had.

Show them to us.

You never pushed me again after that.:

That's why it's scummy that you let it go. You only cared to interact with me when I was scumreading you, and when I stopped scumreading you, you stopped caring, even though I never answered your question. If you really thought my push on you was in bad faith, you would still want to follow up with me about it, but you just drop it and go back to tunneling omo.

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?:

You demonstrated in your towngame that you're not a tunneler as town. Additionally, there is no hard rule that says "tunneling always come from scum", but when tunneling comes from town, it is often easy to see. You look like tunneled scum.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...:

Although you didn't place him in the bin in your reads lists, you treat him like he is in your townbin by saying he is a "misguided townie." You imply that despite negative actions that could be seen as scummy that you are sure he is town. To me, this is more indicative of a solid townread than a meta-based townlean.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment

.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Possible PR Soft

Just... No lim? Huh?

But if we NL day 1 then we wouldn't have much info day 2 aside from the NK flip (who will be a townie) and any investigatives that decide to come out. And barring a good vig shot, we have no chance to kill mafia until day 2 in that case.

Rolefishing.

Can max just claim next post btw

I'm a VT. If you kill me, get omo next.

Into claimed VT

I mean whatever I don't care, they're not good enough as scum to maintain it to endgame so I'm not too pressed about yall not figuring it out and TBH it'll help us in the longterm if they don't get turbo'd because it'll catch their other scumbud easily.

You seem to be assuming I am scum and going from there.

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

Is this a crumb or what?

Rolefishing. Thought I saw more yesterday but a speedread only reveals this. Maybe they were in Salsabil/Looker/DGB's ISOs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh yeah i forgot to mention it but @kyouko i didnt ignore the crumb i just didnt notice it..me saying i dont care post claim isnt me saying i saw it.

I just assumed you noticed it because of how obvious it was. I assumed everyone saw it unless I had a reason to think they would have missed it, considering it was in b2b posts. They were addressed at me so I suppose I would have an easier time noticing them though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tomorrow is presumably MELO if we execute town again. With FN and IC to self-confirm and no scum PRs flipped I think we can assume we're not going to get any investigative results tomorrow either. I'm going to update my colored VCs with what little data we have from yesterday, but with 2 flips and an IC things could be a lot more telling now than they were yesterday.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

conftown

voters that were on the end of day DGB wagon and are not confirmed

confscum

Left myself yellow for everyone's convenience

Day 1 Votes

Votecount 1:

DrippingGoofball

(3):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

Titus

(2):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2):

MathBlade

,

MaxTheFox

ssbm_Kyouko

(1): Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

geraintm

(1): Salsabil Faria

MaxTheFox

(1):

omo

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 2:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ManateeDude

,

Titus

,

ssbm_Kyouko

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

, Salsabil Faria

MaxTheFox

(2):

MathBlade

, Dwlee99

Titus

(1);

Roden

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

omo

Votecount 3:

omo

(4):

MaxTheFox

, Salsabil Faria,

DrippingGoofball

,

MathBlade

Roden

(4):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

DrippingGoofball

(2):

marcistar

,

Titus

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

ManateeDude

(1):

Roden

Votecount 4:

Dwlee99 (4): Salsabil Faria,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Titus

,

ManateeDude

ManateeDude

(2):

omo

, Dwlee99

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

,

DrippingGoofball

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

marcistar

(1):

Roden

Votecount 5:

marcistar

(5):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

DrippingGoofball

omo

(3):

MaxTheFox

,

ManateeDude

,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Votecount 6:

marcistar

(4):

Roden

,

ssbm_Kyouko

, Salsabil Faria,

omo

,

MathBlade

(MathBlade added to the Marci wagon in this VC quote because they voted Marci shortly afterward and were on the wagon at its height)

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

,

MathBlade

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball

(1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Votecount 7:

DrippingGoofball

(4):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

Salsabil Faria (2):

geraintm

, Salsabil Fariua

marcistar

(1):

MathBlade

omo

(1):

MaxTheFox

ManateeDude

(1): Dwlee99
Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Roden

(1):

DrippingGoofball

Votecount 8:

DrippingGoofball

(7):

marcistar

,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

ManateeDude

,

Roden

,

Titus

,

MathBlade

,

omo

Roden

(2):

DrippingGoofball

, Dwlee99
Salsabil Faria (2):

geraintm

, Salsabil Faria

omo

(1):

MaxTheFox

Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia

Day 2 Votes

Votecount 1:

omo

(2):

ManateeDude

,

ssbm_Kyouko

Votecount 2:

MaxTheFox

(3):

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

, Salsabil Faria
Dwlee99 (1):

ssbm_Kyouko

Votecount 3:

MaxTheFox

(4):

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

, Salsabil Faria

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

Dwlee99 (2):

ssbm_Kyouko

,

Titus

Votecount 4:

MaxTheFox

(6):

omo

, Dwlee99,

ManateeDude

, Salsabil Faria,

ssbm_Kyouko

,

marcistar

omo

(2):

MaxTheFox

,

Titus

Salsabil Faria (1):

MathBlade

[ssbm_Kyouko]

A cursory scan of Marci's ISO to look at why her vote stayed on Looker/DGB all day reveals this - while looking in there I paused for Salsabil interactions. If she is scum, Salsa could be the last, and I think vice versa holds true.

So the left overs are your scum reads then? Between the four of them, who do you think we should vote?

i dont like pushing my opinions onto people
-
dwlee and drippinggoofball are the ones i would choose between the 4
but then i feel bad for dwlee
so im fine with my current vote

This is a really weak reason to stay on DFG. The 4 Roden asks about, for context, are DGB, Dwlee, geraintm, and Manatee. Town!Marci used the "I feel bad for [a replaced-in player] getting voted out" in Owner's Market Blitz recently, and I mistakenly thought that meant she was scum with the replaced-in player. But as town, she didn't vote that player. Dwlee is a replace-in, but so is DGB. The "feel bad" doesn't apply to DGB here though, so there is a difference here that initially appears like a similarity to her last towngame with me.

Marci can you do a reads list? Claim (if you haven't)

im just a vt, so its not too much of a loss to town

Spoiler:

Not_Mafia -

not too sure

MathBlade -

I had good vibes on saudade (238, 326, 412, and his stuff about u titus seems pretty good) and i have decent vibes on mathblade > i like his like catching up on things alot, though im not really too sure where they stand rn
i think hes just genuinely putting thoughts there, and not just trying to whatevers easiest. so this is prob like townlean

oʍo -

their early game stuff seemed like they were just trying to move stuff forward, the vibes tell me theres nothing with bad intentions there. (463, 464, 853, 854 specifically good vibes, if u want something stronger than just pure vibes ) townread.

Roden -

(222, 294) im not usually used to people throwingaround the term "scum claiming" so easily so these originally felt weird to me, 244 originally to me seemed like he was just doing it cuz it was whats popular, originally i didn't really like him much. As the game went on though, i realized its just I don't vibe well with his playstyle so im not too confident placing a read here. I could see him being anything.

geraintm -

idk

DrippingGoofball -

originally i didn't like looker because it looked like looker was just making excuses, 206 and its correction in 209 was goodish tho.
drippinggoofball really just hasn't done too much, which makes me comfortable with my vote <3 <3 i don't know any meta on them so i cant be like "meta meta, hes town" or anything, so im just keeping at it until i either get what i wanna see or i die x3 <3 (657, 875) i don't see too much of an explanation

Dwlee99 -

535 by itself doesn't seem too weird, but it just stands out alot in their iso. i think thats where they really started like putting their foot into the game..? i also don't like how long they let the mason thing with saudade go on. i like (619, 761), dislike 703 since they dont rlly explain much. generally, his posts look good on quick glance, but i think they could be easily faked as scum.

MaxTheFox -

im not too sure on how to read them. i don't agree with their read on owo, i dont see anything wrong with it though, i think theyre something like a "only time can tell" sorta thing.

Titus -

tbh im not sure what a babysitter is but like ill trust it i think.. though im a bit confused on the timing of ur claim

ssbm_Kyouko -

i think ssbm_kyouko is really good at being a townleader often ^.^ i think theyre townie the vibes are just there. they seem rlly focused on me/manatee so i hope they have a backup plan if things go wrong :'(

ManateeDude -

they do alot of short posts and change votes alot, im not too sure how i feel about her anymore tbh. but like i had a townread here originally, but i just like.. the vote changes feel weird and sometimes like theyre taking opportunities.

Salsabil Faria -

i remember my townread on her felt stronger before, but isoing her doesn't really keep up those same vibes. i would say townie vibes, but keep her between the lower rankings of the townie vibes imo. alot of her posts aren't rlly doing much, and her post count makes it seem like shes in thread more than she actually has been (in my mind at least).
im still traumatized from the exploder game
(so lower ranks of the townie reads for her).

^ theres some ideas of the players, not really good and def not spicy at all tho
man that was kinda alot of work and took a bunch of hrs

Because town has zero motivation to settle and let themselves be elim'd.

Scum may do so to invoke WIFOM, or to make the exact argument you're making. Because yes, why would scum just lay down and die?.

i often do it as town for not so good reasons
but sometimes ill want to do it just so that my townreads dont get picked on.

Thing is, you can't claim you're not fighting back. You've been sprinkling suspicion on others throughout all of Day 1.

wheres me sprinkling suspicion on others..? i prob wasnt doing it to defend myself tho since i remember never really feeling like i needed to defend myself much earlier

Your associative with Max isn't direct but through Manatee. Your statement though implies you checked your ISO to fact check yourself, which is weird since you should just know if you talked much with Max or not.

i dont think i checked my iso at that point, but if i did it was prob cuz i was confused.. i have the worst memory

I will say though that your defense here is actually more reasonable than I expected. I'm just not seeing the town motivation for using scum tactics like buddying and distancing, nor for why you haven't really pushed your biggest scum read.

doesn't really matter too much, but i do buddy often to people who i feel like

have

to be town.. kinda gets me in an awkward spot when i rethink on them tho
dont really know why i do it.

Of the wagons that have come up so far who do you think could be scum?

lowkey don't remember all the wagons, the one i do remember (dwlee) i think could easily flip scum tho.

If you can’t find any who do you think would be the deep wolf pushing you in that scenario?

don't really think much of my wagon is sus (916) but if theres one on there its roden, but i wouldn't be too confident to put the title on him that fast.

Open the spoiler for a D1 readslist from her

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have to check in to work and maybe run some updates, then I can get back and read current events

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How is it bad to have my top townreads as you Kyo and omo? I didn't include the conftown there for brevity's sake

You identified the problem now.

I don’t know if I buy the excuse now but that’s sus as fuck.

It's weird to say it was for brevity's sake, imo you exclude them because it is implied they are part of the townblock as conftown. I dont see this as a reason to SR Dwlee though.

I'm no longer doubting Math, now when considering Marci's DGB vote. I also think scum!Marci is TMIing her partners in RVS if it's {DGB, Marci, Salsabil}.

Titus was also suspicious of Dwlee/omo as a unit I feel like, though she did associate omo and Math, with omo being more likely. I think it's clear her Babysit was meant to be insurance to kill a scumread in the event of her death. I think scum!Math and scum!Dwlee might have been more careful in case Titus targeted one of them. I don't think the scumteam felt they were at risk of being targeted.

That really leaves 2 of Marci, Salsabil, N_M

I think Titus was a forced kill last night.

N1 they weren’t sure of what Titus and I were trying to communicate so they didn’t know who she would likely protect. So they shot Roden who was massively townread and probably just a townreads kill.

N2 Titus becomes a forced kill and with their vote on Owo not picking up traction it’s a safe kill.

I don’t think NKA gets us far unfortunately. I think it’s going to be a purely day play thing.

What do you mean by forced kill? Why were scum forced into it?

Okay maybe there's credibility to the Salsa/Marci solve if Salsa is going to say we are both suspicious and then vote me.

Yeah probably lmao. That's definitely sus. I've also never seen town!Salsabil give up the way she did D1 when she self-voted. She usually shows more effort, and she tends to ping me early when she's town.

And you gain a Townie dead? Until I conclusively find your partner that sort of question is kinda silly. If it’s you and Dwlee you gain a day to give them some breathing room. You and Salsa means that Salsa isn’t forced to give more content.

The what you gain is dependent on your partner.

ssbm_kyouko considered me part of their townblock thing

what do i gain from making a scummy hammer, and ruining my chances at that townblock..?
if i was scum surely i would want to milk the townblock for all it worth, hmm?

sacrificing how towny i seem, just to get a townie miselimed and then be sused right after is not a move i would make

Maybe you didnt know it was a hammer and wanted to get on with the wagon I was leading for appearances. Or it's just WIFOM.

argh, this feels like scm trying to direct a vote. We are too close to losing and too many people making bets on tomorrow if someone doesn't flip scum today.

I still want to look at Math from Day 1

but then ssbm_Kyouko + marcistar on both wagons.

not mafia just dodging the game.

known town roles are

me - informed child
titus - babysitter
manatee - friendly neighbour

that is it so far right?

Yes, speaking of roles, Dwlee beat me to it:

We should probably mass claim today BTW

We should mass claim, from the bottom up, since we're probably 1 ME away from MELO.
Salsa/Marci/N_M
Dwlee
Me/MathBlade

I think the exact order doesnt matter as long as we follow these tiers. Manatee/geraintm, would either of you reorder these tiers?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That may have been misleading. I said from the bottom up, but then I ordered a lost with the "bottom" players at the top. Start with salsa/marci/N_M, then dwlee, them math and I

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I would have N_M in dwlee tier but hes been mostly absent, so out of concern for his activity, I'd just like him not to have to wait for anyone else's claims, and to claim next time he posts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also N_M being absent so much could indicate he could have missed the 'friendly' crumb as well, so that bottom 3 are all pairings that would have missed the crumb and not killed manatee for it

Pedit: I've been in 2 games with town!you, I incorrectly SRed you in the first one, and I killed you as scum in the second one because I'd seen how much effort you'll put in as town before.

And thanks for claim, Marci claim next?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw in reading Marci's response I realize I confused Dwlee for a replacement in this game because he just replaced into another ongoing game. So my point on her feeling bad for a replacement like she did as town in OMB is different now - this is something she did as town before, feeling bad for a replacement. But in this game her vote stays on the replacement and she feels bad for someone else.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If prod timers are 48 hrs without a night reset, N_M is due about 10 minutes ago, or in about 3 hours if T3 extends it due to day starting early. Not sure if there's a reset or not though, I pmed T3 about it but he's doing Debate today anyways. We could be waiting up to 72 hrs for N_M's claim if there was a reset to the prod timer though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We have 7 days though so we can wait if needed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also @geraintm, regarding myself and Marci being on both wagons:
Marci had been parked on Looker since RVS and when questioned by Roden about who she scumreads and why she was voting Looker/DGB still, she said of the 4 left over in her poe {geraintm, Manatee, Dwlee, DGB}, that Dwlee and DGB were who she would want to vote, but that she would feel bad voting Dwlee. That was her explanation for having an RVS-stage vote still on DGB. What's interesting though is even though the vote was placed during RVS, it is based on an actual scumread. I feel like Marci, partnered with Looker, was hyper-aware of her teammate and spotted something scummy by Looker and TMIed by locking her vote on him/his replacement DGB all day.

I think Math is right that when the wagon started very suddenly that Marci had no time to escape the wagon, because it would be suspicious that she was on DGB all day when there was no pressure, and suddenly when there was pressure, she moved off. Especially if someone else joined and DGB was hammered anyways.

With the context of the votes, I would not consider Marci as part of the voting block that was running up wagons on multiple players throughout D1 and landed on DGB. Yes she was on the end of day wagon, but not for good reason.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[Reminder I need to post reads for Manatee]

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll be V/LA this weekend, might find time to post, but might be busy. In all likelihood will probably read and post shorter posts from my phone, but nothing deep

[ssbm_Kyouko]

N_M can you claim? We're mass claiming

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can you check it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dwlee wanna just skip over N_M and claim now? Then Math and I can go?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As for reads, the order I asked for claims in sums it up for me. I'm TRing Mathblade, mostly for the DGB vote, but also trusting Titus on this a bit. My biggest SRs are Salsabil and I was kinda letting Marci slide by for her place on the DGB wagon D1, before I realized the context of her vote. I thought because we had so many of the same people moving around to multiple wagons on D1 that it would be a good game to try some VCA in but I think it blinded me to Marci.

That hammer was scummy, but I feel like, with 2 miselims left, and having 4 plausible scum, it would be ideal to hit scum today and not be banking on tomorrow. This is the order, with scumreads at the top, then not_mafia is kinda policy, kinda lurk-scummy. I'll get to that. Then Dwlee still has the same points against him from end of D1, and I keep thinking he could possibly be partners with MathBlade, and that's my nightmare scumteam right now because I don't think I'd catch them unless we flip scum!dwlee toDay. And I'm much more confident in Salsa and would rather lim her toDay.

Salsabil - she generally puts in more effort as town I feel like. This game feels subdued, like she's not having meaningful attempts to sort, not as aggressive as usual. Giving up and self-voting while DGB was being wagonee looks very bad as well. I'm most confident in Salsa being scum.
Marci - I had been TRing her because she was one of the wagons from D1 that lead up to DGB, and she was on DGBs wagon at the end of the day. But I think she slipped by because I didn't examine the reason her vote was on DGB. MathBlade's point that the wagon flashed so fast she couldn't get off of it does make sense. We've also seen everyone else but Math and I, and I know I'm town and think Math is too, so I dont think there was an intentional bus. But Marci could still be scum that was stuck on DGB's wagon.
--
Not_Mafia - I see now he's claimed VT but I think "doctor's orders" and "I'm wounded" are obvious doctor softs and considering there are 2 softs in such a small iso I can see scum!Not_Mafia trying to fend off lurker scumreads by softing PR. I think he should have been shot if he was town, and that a town doctor doesnt make sense with a Babysitter, but maybe a mafia Jailkeeper could pretend to be a doctor.

Besides the softs though, he hasn't voted really in this game which makes him a liability in MELO. Self-voted all of D1 and wasn't around to vote on D2.

I did like the comment he made on not liking how quickly saudade lost his hate boner that came up during my iso read of someone else. I didnt think much of it when I first read it but it took deeper reading for me to figure what it meant so I feel like it's indicative of a real thought process that might be hard to fake as scum. It's not enough for me to write him off though, I still find the doctor softs suspicious.
--
Dwlee - I feel like he makes sense with Mathblade or N_M given his stance on Marci and Salsabil, though if he is scum with Marci he is somewhat forced to bus her at this point. I didn't like his position on the D1 wagons and I do think he sheeps too much, but I'm not sure if I'm seeing anything inherently scummy here besides being wrong about DGB. I'm having a hard time recalling anything distinct about him though. I do remember he faked mason at the start of the game and seemed to be buddying me when he voted Roden. And he made omo look scummy with him since the two of them were on other wagons but not DGBs, and then he wouldn't hammer DGB, and omo did instead. He was happy enough to sheep me on Roden at the start of the game, happy to sheep Saudade, but wouldn't hammer DGB. So maybe after writing this I'm thinking he's more suspicious than before.

Pedit: yes I am a VT and seeing as nobody claimed vigilante or another PR, I dont see scum having a need for a doctor or JK (N_M).

Tbh I was expecting someone to claim something weakly swingy like a 1-shot or non-consecutive vig or something which could explain scum!N_M having a protective role and softing doctor.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well I expected it only because I suspected from N_M's 2 obvious softs that he was planning to fakeclaim doctor or something as a scum protective. But scum protective only makes sense if town has killing power.

It feels wrong to assume 3 goons, is that very common? I would think generally that scum gets at least 1 PR to start and town gets power to balance them out.

I feel like Marci can be ditzy though and its entirely possible that town!Marci didnt know she was hammering. So I'd feel better about salsbila first, because if we go Marci first and she's town, we could easily lose to dwlee/N_M + MathBlade, or dwlee/N_M.

What makes you say Marci over Salsabil today?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not Mafia is a known troll. Look at his signature. Trying to predict him is like trying to predict a fair d20. You might be right 5% of the time but best to force him to play.

3 goons + weak TPR is balanced. Mountainous is very hard on town. (Much as mountainous is one of my favorite setups)
An extremely good (imho) way to balance a setup is start from light PR then counter balance each side.
They added friendly neighbor / innocent child as those PRs.
Then okay town needs a protective to help with PRs…hmmm doctor? No then you have elo problems…then likely swapped it to babysitter to ensure mass claim can’t protect innos.

Then scum don’t have much in the way to hunt and so no PRs needed.

I agree it’s possible Marci was ditzy but not probable. I would rather know if she was ditzy or not going into elo versus take a risk on Salsa or Dwlee. By your argument we could also elim Salsa first then we could easily lose to a different subset.

Yeah but it dlesnt help me that the team I am most likely to lose to if we start Marci is you/dwlee. So I am especially averse to Marci when it is you that wants it. If Salsa flips town I think it triggers reevaluation. But if Marci flips town, I still want Salsa. So I'd rather start Salsa and reevaluate if I'm wrong.

Town can accidentally hammer, but the self-voting was not an accident. I dont think that is in Salsabil's townrange, and frankly, I know from owners market blitz that Marci is easily confused. It is entirely possible she did it by accident. Let's nail one scum today and keep our mislims available to us so we can go to the end with the best possible 3-4 if we mess up.

For argument's sake, let's say Marci is scum though. Who is her partner if not Salsa?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I would rather policy NM or just do Marci
What’s your case on Salsa. I don’t have experience with them.

Can you sell me on it?

During the week I can, I'm all phone posting this weekend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If there is a vigilante or any town killing role I put the odds that "babysitter" is scum north of 80%, regardless of Titus' scummy day play.

VOTE: dwlee

Dwlee/N_M last 2 scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw I been reading my games with salsa and I misremembered her

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I am fairly certain there is some kind of town killing role that did not claim and that dwlee was fishing because scum figured out it was likely based on N_M's role which is likely a protective based on his doctor softs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In the salsa games, I thought she was more interactive with many slots, but it seems like she is a bit focused as town. I'm still not sure about the self-voting but I just read dale's iso and I dont see anything good in there, despite how much is in there. I'll do the same for marci/salsa.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Autocorrect turned dwlee into dale

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I see that G but it’s still policy. Not mafia didn’t have posts on site far as I can tell. It could be because scum or RL it’s kinda one of those lines I just don’t cross.

In an ideal world we just elim both Not Mafia and Marci before elo but we can’t. Like I find it odd that Kyo is saying Salsa is scummier than Not Mafia and Marci and I want to hear that explanation.

Seeing this reminds me if we miss today it's tough to go into melo with N_M alive and I think limming him today might just be best play.

The only N_M pairing I can think of that is less likely than others is with Mathblade because Saudade was looking to policy N_M. N_M was never at that risk though so it could have been safe to propose.

I think I need to put thoughts of MathBlade scum to bed. I would like MathBlade, geraintm, and Manatee to remind me of this if I forget. 2 scum in dwlee, salsabil, and Marci. Working from here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh and N_M^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't have a good attention span. I don't know what from ever playing with me would make you think that.

To pull a T3, [redacted]

Maybe that I post so much from 8-5 EST on weekdays is any indication?

So you mostly play at work is what you're saying, right?

"[Redacted]" ended today btw. Large Normal 233. town!Dwlee is very engaged in a 17p game all throughout. He didnt really miss things the way he does in this game when he says his eyes glazed over or when he said earlier he didnt read. Additionally, in one of the Salsabil games I read, Dwlee was scum and he had difficulty recalling specifics at times:

What's ridiculous in my posts, Dwlee? I'm playing the game.

Me and

at least one other person

have said your posts have been hard to parse or understand and you're being unusually sassy about it

Earlier, Dwlee said he believed it when I said he replaced into this game. That tells me he's not really engaged in this game and is in the mindset to just agree with me.

I'm also taking my own advice and going back through my iso here. I have had pretty decent accuracy with my D1 scumreads lately. Oftentimes I'll engage with them and determine they are town, but other times a more promising wagon appears or I'm unable to convince town and eventually I forget why I scumread them in the first place, and I fall prey to echoing. So I'm going back through my ISO and realizing I never resolved my issues with Dwlee, and seeing the [redacted] post reminds me I can now discuss this. The difference between 233's Dwlee and this game's is night and day. On top of that, he isn't really contributing to this game he way he did when he was town. It's more like his scumgame where he's much more passively flowing

with

the game instead of trying to solve. I still believe in my D1 read, as with 2 game days I don't think things have changed for Dwlee to indicate he's solving any more now than he was D1. I don't like both his reasoning for his refusal, and his refusal to vote DGB on D1.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can vote DGB but fmpov it'd be more of a meta thing than a this game thing which makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't know if <thing that I want to know if DGB justifies its play with>

What is <thing>?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Roden

DGB is put to 4 votes shortly after I post my case on it. Marci's RVS-stage vote that did have reasoning attached, my vote, Manatee's vote, sheeping my case, and Roden's vote, also sheeping my case.

I hate post #1000 so much, I can feel a rise in my magma chamber.

this is he most recent vote on DGB at the time of this post and is the easiest one to attack if scum. This is probably also why Roden died N1. He was widely TRed already, and this spews he is town after DGB flip.

VOTE: DGB

TRing everyone on this wagon.

VOTE: Roden

??? Sheeps the case DGB made in 1007?

VOTE: Roden

Why?

He posts weird

And this is the reason for voting Roden?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If there is a vigilante or any town killing role I put the odds that "babysitter" is scum north of 80%, regardless of Titus' scummy day play.

VOTE: dwlee

Dwlee/N_M last 2 scum

I can be sold on this group except one thing:

Why were you so sure on Salsa, what did you think about her? This sudden shift seems odd now that I ask you for a case.

I am kinda nervous on policying NM but if we don’t have a rock star case it’s what we should do.

I don’t give a rats behind about “putting scum!me” to bed. Anyone who has played with scum!me knows that paranoia is healthy.

I am getting kinda paranoid of you/Not Mafia.

When I was sure on salsa I was comparing her to my recollection of her townplay from the 2 games I've played with town!her. I did not ever see her self-vote, and I dont recall her being ATE-ey, and as I recalled, she put a lot more effort into engaging with many slots in her town games. As I read the actual games though, I realized I was remembering wrong. While she does engage with multiple.slots, she favors sorting one or two players at a time, and her interactions with other players usually focus on their reads of her, or their reads of/interactions with the player she is tunneling.

The other reason to SR her is her placement off of the DGB wagon. She was voting herself and ATEing as that was going down, but it's possible she was actually just frustrated. I see similarities to her towngame and dont think her actions in this game weigh as heavily as dwlees.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I really would love to hear from G/Manatee about Kyo’s change in read.

I think then based on they say we either flash NM or not.

Something doesn’t sit right and I am not sure how to say it so I am just going to let this sit and see where G and Manatee come in.

Give your best shot at explaining it? I dont think anything should not be sitting right

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also have you looked even briefly at large 233?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Manateegal is also scum ty for making that obvious

i think ur just susing anyone who votes u and thats kinda weird

I'm mason

urge to make a dad joke

Serious question: What dad joke?

Word wolf warning: I am known for some of the cringiest of dad jokes so spare no expense.

its prob obvious wht its was gonna be, im like the worst at dad jokes its not even funny

Marci also posted this about Dwlee way back on D1, that he is basically sussing anyone that votes him. This was something I was going to point out and got distracted answering Math's question. You can read his ISO in this game and see he hasn't been genuine in sorting. Up to around post 500 he's nakedly sheeping, then when I vote him he starts to scumread me when before he was with me in voting Roden and saying I'm town. When he gets votes from Titus, Manatee, and Roden as well, he just says the votes on him are all for terrible reasons. He puts me and DGB in the same tier of towniness on his reads list, but when I present an actual case on DGB he ignores it and votes for the town counterwagon to DGB for an actually terrible reason: "he posts weird." No comment on why he doesnt believe my case on DGB. When he does refuse to vote DGB it is out of defiance, not reason, as he doesnt address the case against DGB and instead gets aggressive towards me for trying to force.him to hammer DGB. He doesnt give a reason not to, just gets defiant/defensive and demonstrates he did not read the case on DGB when he posts 1077.

In 807 Dwlee is engaging me on a dichotomy of TvS marci, Manatee. We now know Manatee is town, likely Marci is also town if Dwlee is scum. In 845 he says he would go Marci, but later on, he will not go DGB, who has now flipped scum. Marci and Dwlee are not partnered I think, and I SR Dwlee for many reasons, and Marci has a couple of points against her that could easily come from town!her. I would much rather Dwlee than Marci toDay. If it comes to compromise I would go N_M because I dont want him in MELO.

I also just realized if there is a vig they may have holstered if they believed in Titus' claim to prevent a large swing. Now that Titus is dead I can see a vig not claiming today so they can shoot us down to odds before MELO and give us slightly better chances. In that case I assume the vig will shoot N_M for softing doctor and being absent, when the existence of a babysitter and a vig on town indicates that scum should have a doctor if it exists, not town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

To be clear I want Dwlee but think numerically that N_M may be the safest bet because he hasn't been involved and will be a liability to town in MELO if he and Dwlee are both town. Going for N_M today, for me, is insurance in case I am wrong about dwlee. I feel confident in Dwlee though so if I can get a wagon through here, I will. If I cant, my compromise is N_M because regardless of his alignment he is a good elim.

I'd also like you to respond on dwlee specifically because if we lim dwlee today and he flips red, N_M is tomorrow. If N_M flips town tomorrow, I will be in MELO with you, salsabil, and Marci. I have reasons to think Marci and possibly Salsabil are not scum with Dwlee, but dont have them for you. If we make it this far, I want to have your responses down now so I can look back on them and consider your equity with dwlee. If you're town, this will help town win in MELO, so you should respond whether you're town or scum. If town, to help me sort MELO, and if scum, to appear helpful.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^ that's the bracket thing

I mean specifically, what is the meta tell that you didnt want to go into detail on? I've talked about [redacted], which you said was a bullshit reason to be scumreading you in the first place. I need you to explain the <thing> now, because as it is now, you didnt have a strong reason to not vote DGB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Reading your iso in the Gypyx normal we can see evidence of solving on your 13th post. In this game there is something weak at iso post 30 and before that it's purely sheeping and omgus.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mmm, no. The usage of the <thing> indicated it was something specific. If there is no believable <thing> you can point to, you were just making up a reason to not vote there, in a way that makes it look like "I'm not going to this player's defending for them, look at how town I am":

I can vote DGB but fmpov it'd be more of a meta thing than a this game thing which makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't know if <thing that I want to know if DGB justifies its play with>

There was definitely something specific you were referencing, and imo you can't point to what it is now because it wasn't real.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why were you sheeping Saudade at 392? You say that is ISO post 10, implying it is evidence you are solving. The only way that can be construed as evidence is if you already had "solved" that Saudade was town by that point. If you had, why was he town?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So the Titus vote stood but the case on DGB felt like meta to you? I skim Titus's ISO up to 462 in a matter of seconds and it's as empty as DGB's was.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

if "Titus vote stands" is a real thought process from you, you should have had no problem accepting DGB as scum, but instead you say the case on it is just meta and you don't want to vote it in case it says its trying a different playstyle this game - these two thoughts don't exist together in a town mind. Also, look at the original case on DGB. Never a mention of "meta" or anything like it:

Fuck it what about this iso?
Desperately flocking to the prevailing wagons seemingly for no reason, assuming they're both town, 962 is the perfect time to make that post as scum. You get the towncred but also the prevailing wagons are TvT and it's safe to do so.

No content. Flip-flops onto town wagons without reason. Tries to scoop up low-hanging towncred. Yeet

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Reading your iso in the Gypyx normal we can see evidence of solving on your 13th post. In this game there is something weak at iso post 30 and before that it's purely sheeping and omgus.

Also the point of this is obviously not "town!dwlee starts solving by post 13" - the point is, out the gate, as town, you are immediately making connections and asking questions that are obviously directed toward solving. In this game, you don't do anything that even resembles that until post 30, and when you do, it doesn't shout out loud "this is a meaningful question whose answer will contribute to my reads on players x and y." Town!you is transparently solving early. It takes longer for you to get involved in this game and it is a weaker involvement that is not necessarily town-indicative. And your ISO doesn't get better.

Why are Marci and Salsa not scum together? I thought you just pointed out at the start of this Day it makes sense for them to be scum together because when Salsa suspected either you or Marci she voted you?

Btw, I think it's

Dwlee

&

Marci

...

VOTE: Dwlee

Okay maybe there's credibility to the Salsa/Marci solve if Salsa is going to say we are both suspicious and then vote me.

Individual reads:

Me
(for math)
Conftown people

Math/Kyo

Salsa/Marci

NM

Together reads: my gut is telling me NM + a deep wolf, but obviously this doesn't match with the individual reads in a quantifiable way. Might be as simple as NM + one of Marci/salsa. I don't really think that Marci and salsa are scum together though? Based on what I've seen?

VOTE: NM

Kind of a PoE at this point

Unless deepwolf I feel okay about Kyo and Mathblade. My vibe tells me salsa and Marci aren't both scum at the very least.

That leaves you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't find DGB's ISO scummy when I read it, but I felt it was off in a meta way.

So meta is bad when it's used on you, but you used it when reading (scum) DGB, rather than examining it to see if the case presented by your townread (me) makes sense? I would think in good faith you would be looking at it through the lens of the case to see if the case even makes sense, which gives you more info to sort me with right away. Instead you ignored the case and decided because the meta

didn't align with DGB's towngame, that it may have been trying a different playstyle

. Again the way you handle DGB doesn't make sense when you compare it to the way you handle other players in this game. You have an informed preference to not eliminate DGB, and the points you use to defend that stance do not apply to other players. Furthermore, they directly contradict what you're saying with regards to meta now when it is convenient for you.

Spoiler: Titus's ISO through 462

VOTE: MaxTheFox

I should be looking after my godchild but I am posting instead.

Hydra with your godchild

Far too young to do that with. I want them to think most people are good when they grow up.

VOTE: Titus

Serial killer hero solve.

Nope. I will win with my mason buddies again, just you watch.

To be fair, you didn't throw. Almost everyone else did.

The kid was cuter

All the kids are mine.

VOTE: looker

Life is getting complicated. I'll try to be here.

We can't say

<redacted spoiler tag containing forbidden word>

; it's forbidden.

Also, Titus and ssbm_Kyouko are dating. Congrats!

My boyfriend is going to find this awkward.

I keep telling him I have to spend time with my godchild.

Hi I'm a miller

Would you happen to be...Informed?

informed of DN

What is DN?

Oh no.

I'm not sure what DN is but why do I feel a sinking feeling shit's going sideways?

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

Agreed.

Hi elo buddy!

Catching up tomorrow.

Spoiler: DGB's ISO up to my case

Hello ego post.

did you know that orthogonal states of the spin half quantum sub space are 180 degrees instead of your conventional 90

I'd love to see the mathematical proof of this

NOT

I am masons with your mum

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Reviewed by Isis and mastina.

Reviewed by Isis

Reviewed by

Isis

uh oh

DGB who is evil?

I'm on page 5 and it's still nothing but a

confusion of fakeclaims.

Get it? Like a murder of crows.

I wonder if some of it is deliberate.

But yeah it feels like RVS is going on a bit too long.

Whassup with dat??? Right?

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

He's the only one who is actually trying to play the game.

Scum!Not_Mafia is usually happy to troll.

Saudade and Kyouko are also getting annoyed and taking initiative to get the game started, so town points for that.

The way Marci reacted to me pushing on them feels towny in retrospect, I was just a bit taken aback at the time when they were not suspicious of me which made me feel like there was TMI at play but at the end of the day scum leans towards actually questioning people who are FoSing them.

I'll sheep you for now kyouko VOTE: Roden

This feels like scum backing down with their tail between their legs.

but really like their posting screams "I am uninformed"

Can you elaborate on this? Whose posting? How does it scream "I am uninformed"?

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

I'm giving myself 3 days to read Titus.

Is everyone just ignoring I claimed mason? Ok

The real masons are probably the ones not claiming mason.

Their ISO is awful but idk if that's just their playstyle.

How?

To pull a T3,

I don't think T3 is ever living that down. Poor guy.

What did I miss?

To pull a T3,

I don't think T3 is ever living that down. Poor guy.

What did I miss?

In a recently ended mini normal t3 claimed a guilty on his scum buddy while he was traitor. Promptly got nightkilled.

Site history!

What dad joke?

When does a joke become a dad joke?

When it becomes apparent.

FTR I'm never trusting Titus' MB read ever again.

VOTE: oʍo

I was getting the feeling that Dwlee is just a flailing townie.

I have seen it before when he tunneled on me!town for 87 straight gamedays.

UNVOTE:

OmO looking better and dropping town tells.

they dont post often so they didnt really ease my leftover worries from looker <3

LOL I just replaced.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

Based on this alone, she's scum.

VOTE: marci

UNVOTE: hmmmmmm

Tentatively, MathBlade dropping town tells in #920.

marci not acting like a total scumfuck in response to votes is good but idk if its good enough for me

ORLY

VOTE: ManateeDude

ATTENTION ALL VANITY VOTERS:

Dwlee99 (1):

Titus

DrippingGoofball (1):

marcistar

Salsabil Faria (1):

geraintm

Not_Mafia (1):

Not_Mafia

You don't want to miss the 5:15 to Limtown.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There's another issue with your reasoning here but I want to see if you realize it

What post is it in?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why are Marci and Salsa not scum together? I thought you just pointed out at the start of this Day it makes sense for them to be scum together because when Salsa suspected either you or Marci she voted you?

There's some credibility to it, sure, but I don't really buy it. Vibes don't match

Do N_M's vibes match with anyone?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Your entire paragraph is

divorced

from what I was saying

This feels unnatural, like when scum searches for a powerful word to drive a point home. A quick ego search reveals you haven't used the term before. Why now?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why are Marci and Salsa not scum together? I thought you just pointed out at the start of this Day it makes sense for them to be scum together because when Salsa suspected either you or Marci she voted you?

There's some credibility to it, sure, but I don't really buy it. Vibes don't match

Do N_M's vibes match with anyone?

Given that he has hardly posted? Yea. I could see him teamed with you, Marci, or Salsa.

So by "Vibes don't match", you aren't even talking about vibes... you're talking about teammate equity. That is something that can be quantified. Show me, with evidence, the posts that indicate negative equity between salsa and marci.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There's another issue with your reasoning here but I want to see if you realize it

What post is it in?

It's your entire argument/solve.

How specific. Can't say I'm surprised.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also the "solving" by DGB that starts around 260 is easily faked, much like any "solving" that has appeared in your ISO in this game. The transparently town motivation is not there in your ISO this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yes, everyone has claimed VT except the 2 conftown

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Technically there could be more to your or Manatee's roles but unless the "more" is that one of you has a vig-shot or an investigative result, we're no better off right now than pre-massclaim.

Since everyone has claimed VT any action or no result besides Manatees FN is a guilty though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyo if you're gonna call me scummy for using a word/phrase that perfectly describes how you said I meta townread DGB, I don't care to have this conversation

I've caught scum with this before. I don't think it's natural language coming from you and it looks worse to me that you're brushing it off.

And if you want to continue to split hairs, I didn't say

you townread DGB for meta reasons

. I said

you used meta as a reason not to vote it, rather than examining the veracity of my case on DGB

. It's a subtle difference between "townreading" and "not scumreading", but the way you leap from "not scumreading" -

over

my point on examining DGB's ISO through the lens of the case in good faith - to the subtly different "townreading", and then say my point is "divorced from" your argument indicates to me that I'm onto something here and you're blowing a subtle difference out of proportion with strong languaging that you don't normally use on site.

It's not only that you're slightly misunderstanding a subtlety, but that you're then blowing the part that you misunderstand out of proportion, with unnatural language that you don't normally use,

and ignoring

the clear-cut point that cannot be misunderstood. And I know you understand subtlety, because when you were arguing with Roden earlier, one of your arguments against them was that they were not making a good faith effort to repeat back what you said. What they said was that you wanted to vote me out because I was pushing you. What you wrote was more along the lines of "Kyouko is scummy because she should know that town!me has a problem with his attention span", (from memory, feel free to correct if this is wrong)

VOTE: Kyo
This might be scum. The inattentiveness thing is a very strange thing to push me on and I think town!Kyo knows I sometimes am just like that.

I know vibe checking is punishable by death at this point, but man the vibes on this read feel off. Do you really think Kyouko should go just because she made a push on you?

Uh no and I don't think this is a good faith attempt at repeating back what I said at all.

I didn't repeat anything back. How else am I supposed to interpret your post if your only accusation against Kyouko is "she should know that I don't pay attention"?

You said I voted Kyo for pushing me. If that's your interpretation you're severely misreading what I'm writing or trying to misrep me to make me look scummy.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you conveniently stopped reading the moment before the point you ignored before appeared for the second time. Why did you not read DGB's ISO through the lens of my case against DGB?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HUH IS DWLEE A REPLACE IN- i just lowkey felt bad for them based on what they were saying

This is a real reaction and doesnt come from Dwlee's partner and I'll die on this hill

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you going to address that I didn't not vote DGB for meta reasons?

I did. I said the posts that start around 260 that look "solving" are easily faked. The fact remains that you did not look at the ISO through the lens of my case. If you TRed both me and DGB, which you said you did, as town, you should have been examining my case on DGB closely 10 times out of 10, as it would indicate a possible blind spot in your reads. You would want to see if you were wrong about DGB, or me, and if you came.to the conclusion you were not wrong, and that my case was wrong, but not in bad faith, you would want to correct my read on DGB.

But you're not town, so none of that happened.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're being deliberately avoidant because the more you engage with me the more you're slipping up. I still want to know what makes you think Salsa and Marci are not teamed, as your reasoning for PoEing to N_M is partially contingent on them not being teamed, at least that's what you've said. When pressed on it you say vibes dont match and when pressed on that it appears you're not actually talking about nebulous vibes, but something more concrete, which is partner equity. What about their posting indicates to you they cannot be partnered?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Individual reads:

Me
(for math)
Conftown people

Math/Kyo

Salsa/Marci

NM

Together reads: my gut is telling me NM + a deep wolf, but obviously this doesn't match with the individual reads in a quantifiable way. Might be as simple as NM + one of Marci/salsa.

I don't really think that Marci and salsa are scum together though? Based on what I've seen?

Individual reads indicate Salsa and Marci in the same tier as scumreads above N_M. Together reads says Marci and Salsa are no scum together, Based on

what Dwlee has seen

.

Unless deepwolf I feel okay about Kyo and Mathblade. My vibe tells me salsa and Marci aren't both scum at the very least.

That leaves you

This is the reason that N_M goes down to the bottom of the readslist - because Salsa and Marci are not scum together. It's not a good reason, so I questioned Dwlee about his reasoning, and he's dancing around giving a concrete reason to why they are not scum together. Just "vibes", but below we will see what "vibes" means in context.

Green is my inserts into the below

Why are Marci and Salsa not scum together? I thought you just pointed out at the start of this Day it makes sense for them to be scum together because when Salsa suspected either you or Marci she voted you?

There's some credibility to it, sure, but I don't really buy it. Vibes don't match

This is where he brings up Vibes. I quote reply to this post and ask if N_M's vibes match with anyone. It is clear we are talking about the same "vibes" from above

Do N_M's vibes match with anyone?

Given that he has hardly posted? Yea. I could see him teamed with you, Marci, or Salsa.

Dwlee says "yea", implying that the same type of vibes that make Marci and Salsa not teamed, are present between N_M and {myself, Marci, and Salsa}, because any of us can be his partner in Dwlee's eyes. "Vibes" can be translated to teammate equity here, and if we're talking about the same vibes as he was originally saying make Salsa and Marci unlikely partners, he's talking about negative equity. This is what I point out in the next reply.

So by "Vibes don't match", you aren't even talking about vibes... you're talking about teammate equity. That is something that can be quantified. Show me, with evidence, the posts that indicate negative equity between salsa and marci.

Kyo if you're gonna call me scummy for using a word/phrase that perfectly describes how you said I meta townread DGB, I don't care to have this conversation.

Titus did literally no solving. That is why she was my priority at that point in the game. I found DGB scummy only in a meta sense, and that is why I didn't vote there.

Vibes don't match clearly meant teammate vibes, and no, vibes can't be quantified

. They just don't seem to both be evil.

Now he is saying it meant teammate vibes which is somehow different from teammate equity in his eyes? And refusing to quantify what is negative equity between because they're just teammate "vibes", not teammate "equity" (which are clearly, in context of 1783, the same thing). Then he says "they just don't both seem to be evil." This isn't even on the topic of teammate equity anymore, as he doesn't mention "evil together." So now he's slipping he doesn't SR one of them, imo, which is not in line with either the reads he posted earlier today, or the reasoning for voting N_M.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^so Dwlee has seen [something] that indicates they are not teamed, but they're "just vibes", and he can't point to anything specific. Sounds similar to his stances around DGB on D1. Nothing specific can be pointed to. He's just making up convenient reads to fit his wincon in this game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So from your POV best case scenario NM is elimmed flips scum (I am not going to consider NM town here because the next question means we lose)

Then assume you are elimmed

Then me 1 conf town and kyo/salsa/Marci left.

Assume conf town dead and then the scum in that three kill in kyo/salsa/Marci as I am incredibly easy to buddy as evidenced by the townreads.

What do you think elo looks like and who kills whom?

And saying scum kill me is not an option. You’re not allowed to change the parameters of the hypothetical I am hunting this for a reason

You're counting down wrong.
In this hypothetical, after N_M flips scum, 1 conftown dies.
Then dwlee is eliminated the next day - and 1 more conftown dies.

There is no question of who is nightkilled unless you're assuming scum is not going to kill the conftowns b2b. In this scenario, MELO is me, you, salsa, and Marci.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay so it's final 4 of you, Kyo, salsa, Marci. Then there's a no lim and you're off limits to kill for some reason.

I think Kyo would kill Marci because she could paint Salsa as DGB/NM's teammate pretty easily due to the lack of focus that I think Salsa has shown in sorting those slots.

I think Salsa would kill Kyo because Marci is an easier flip. But maybe she WIFOMs it and kills Marci now that I'm saying this.

I think Marci would kill Kyo for the same reasons Kyo would kill Marci. Salsa seems like an easy flip here.

That's what I think in that scenario, but I think you would be night killed if this actually played out because it gives way less info as to who is scum and keeps two townies able to be eliminated.

This is the final 4 after the second conftown is killed, so the day phase of D5 is 4player MELO of Math, Me, Salsa, and Marci. There is no additional NK before this final 4

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the most likely pair is Dwlee,Salsa as I read Marci in ISO and feel that the points made against her DGB vote by me were actually wrong. My point looked at a couple of specific interactions with Roden, but in ISO the thought process on DGB/Looker is consistent. While those posts on their own looked like poor reasons, there are other explanations that look believable to me.

I see a lot of reasons for why Dwlee is scum, I see reasons why Marci is not partnered with Dwlee, I believe town!Marci is capable of hammering accidentally, and I see individual reasons for Salsa to be scum with the AtE and self-voting during DGB's wagon. I also see the N_M softs as scummy, but take those away and I'm left with one post I TRed him for, so it's hard to say he is scum with Dwlee over Salsa with Dwlee, because individually Salsa is scummier and she has been distancing with Dwlee today.

Unless a non-Dwlee vigilante exists, in which case a scum protective makes sense, and I would lim N_M first in this situation.

Pedit: We could try no elim but I feel like scum just no kills? There is no investigative to flush them out if they delay, so I would think scum would prefer to be in MELO than ELO so there are more suspects?

I always feel this though and it seems like scum always kill in this situation so idk. It just seems suboptimal.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So if geraint or Manatee are sold on Marci or Mathblade, let me know your case, because I feel like Dwlee>Salsa>N_M wins the game

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've seen scum do that sort of hard bus before. Look at Yggdrasil for instance. LLD suddenly hard bussed Anya when the other wagon was town.

Now that's just to say it's possible. If the mafia are somehow aware that the game is low-investigative power, doing a bus like this for towncred could be extremely helpful.

And that also isn't to say that NM!scum implies Kyo!scum, but that I think the possibility of Kyo!scum goes up if NM is because of her implicit defense of him here. If you'll notice, Kyo began by pushing me and NM as a team. But Kyo never really mentioned NM in this argument, and sort of took it for granted that he would flip red. That is beneficial for two reasons if NM and her are buddies: if she can mislim me today, then tomorrow there is less credibility for a NM flip because it's sort of policy at this point, the team theory of me and NM fell through, and people don't like policy eliminating in MELO.

On the other hand, if NM flips red today, Kyo can point to her partner theory to get me flipped tomorrow and put her in MELO.

I think you and Salsa are more likely because there is apparently no killing role. I think the idea that scum!you is contingent on scum!N_M comes from the post I thought you were rolefishing for a vigilante in, followed by the few shortly thereafter, but individually Salsa has done more than N_M that appears scummy, and she appears to be distancing with you as soon as the theory comes out that she and Marci could be teamed.

To be clear Dwlee is an

individual

scumread, N_M being scum is contingent on the existence of a killing role, and the rolefishing by Dwlee is something I saw that points toward them being teamed, but it is secondary to Dwlee's ISO. I am also now individually townreading Marcistar once again, so my entire POE is in Dwlee, Salsabil, and N_M. I think Dwlee on his own is scummy, that he and Marcistar cannot be teamed (further reinforcing my Marci TR on a scum dwlee flip), and that Salsa is distancing from Dwlee, which is not contingent on a killing role that it seems possible does not exist.

In the end, if we eliminate N_M today and he is town, if things go my way I think we are still likely to win because I am feeling confident about Dwlee, Salsa being the last 2 scum. We can mislim today and still eliminate them back to back.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

TLDR DWLEE CASE in 2.a.

Votecount:

• Not_Mafia (3): MathBlade, geraintm, Dwlee99
  Salsabil Faria (2): Salsabil Faria, Not_Mafia
  Dwlee99 (1): ssbm_Kyouko

Day 3 will end in (expired on 2021-08-06 08:56:01).
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

At this point there’s so much posting I kinda just wanna just the night to catch up with it.

Does anyone have anything brief they wanna say or any reason why NM should not be the elim?

1. We still have 3 days to deadline
2. N_M's play is not scum-indicative. He is a policy elimination and there is no reason to policy when there exists the following alternatives:
a. Dwlee has been avoidant of questioning and is displaying inconsistencies around their handling of DGB. They have not been solving in a transparently town way, and it is easy to see the difference if you ISO Dwlee here and compare it to a towngame of his. Dwlee did not provide good reasoning to avoid eliminating DGB, and it is clear that they did not read my DGB's ISO through the lens of my case. At the time they ignored my case on DGB, he had me and DGB in his #2 and #3 townreads, but did not consider that he may be wrong on one of us at all. If he had considered it, he would have examined my case to see if it was accurate, but instead he ignored it, read DGB's ISO, and says (paraphrased) "I would only scumread them from meta, but meta is bad, and I don't want to vote them in case they are trying a new playstyle" He goes on to say that around post 260 DGB starts solving, and the solving that is in DGB's ISO is definitely not anything to hang a townread on DGB over. He has weak reasoning to TR DGB, and weak reasoning to not vote it. He also says that him wanting to eliminate N_M is because his POE is Salsabil, Marcistar, and N_M, but Salsabil and Marcistar are not teamed, so that only leaves N_M. When I ask why they are not teamed, he can only point to "vibes" which is again weak/no reasoning. I am also convinced that the usage of "divorced from" for the first time in his site-wide ego is indicative of scum searching for a powerful word to push home an exaggerated deception. He took what I said and bent it ever so slightly so he could interpret it as something else and represented it as such, then said that <that misrepresentation of my point> is divorced from <his original argument>.
b. Salsabil was not self-voting before DGB gained traction, but she began to self-vote as soon as it's wagon took off, with a huge ATE. Today they are again self-voting with ATE, probably so when N_M flips town her D1 play will look less suspicious. Salsabil has been distancing from Dwlee toDay since the moment she and Marcistar were considered a team. She comes in, says Marci and Dwlee are her scumreads, and votes Dwlee. She has to know, as town or scum, that this makes it look obviously like she is partnered with Marcistar. If she were town she would not want to give credence to the prevailing theory, and if she is scum, voting Dwlee there is an easy way to distance since town is already thinking Salsabil and Marcistar are the team. It makes Marci look bad on a Salsabil flip.
3. Math you say you are brutally efficient town. Who of the 4 candidates for elimination will provide the most useful flip for VCA? Certainly not N_M who has self-voted and not voted all game up until very recently toDay. If anything, you eliminating N_M today is contradictory to what you claim to be. Dwlee has actually used his vote in this game and shifted it around various wagons throughout D1.
4. There are actually only a few new pages of posting, and we still have 3 days, and Nights are only 2 days long. You wanting the night to catch up is inconsistent with what you said on D2. You said you asked for the Night 1 phase to be full length (not a quick night) so you could make sense of the voting patterns, but you could not, which indicated a deep wolf. If anything, you're looking to rush the day to an end now that I am building a case on Dwlee. N_M is an easy end of day compromise we're all happy with. There's no reason to end now when we have time to build actual cases and discuss them, when it is guaranteed we will be able to eliminate N_M before deadline.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Asking a vigilante to shoot someone isn't role fishing.

it is in the context of a game where a scum!doctor exists.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can't comment on Salsa's actions, and I think using that to scumread me with pre-flip associatives is atrocious.

You are literally not reading my posts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, that whole post is an appeal to Math not to eliminate N_M for bad reasons before the Day ends. We can eliminate him at deadline if we have to, but cutting the day short is giving scum refuge to wait out the day without contributing anything we can use to read them later. Even if N_M is scum, we still have to catch his partner.

2.a. is a case on you. 2.b. is a case on Salsa, and part of my read on Salsa is a pre-flip associative with scum!You,

not

the other way around. The main reason Salsa is scum is her self-voting and ATE in context with the DGB wagon as well as her self-voting and ATE today. I see those as weaker reasons for her to be scum than the reasons posted in 2.a. about you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, that whole post is an appeal to Math not to eliminate N_M for bad reasons before the Day ends. We can eliminate him at deadline if we have to, but cutting the day short is giving scum refuge to wait out the day without contributing anything we can use to read them later. Even if N_M is scum, we still have to catch his partner.

2.a. is a case on you. 2.b. is a case on Salsa, and part of my read on Salsa is a pre-flip associative with scum!You,

not

the other way around. The main reason Salsa is scum is her self-voting and ATE in context with the DGB wagon as well as her self-voting and ATE today. I see those as weaker reasons for her to be scum than the reasons posted in 2.a. about you.

Then flip me today, what is stopping you?? After seeing me flip, it'll help you to sort others, that's what you're saying right? Then why you're not pushing me or even better, why you're not convincing anyone to eliminate me today???
I don't recall from how long I want

Dwlee

's elimination over anything but have to take myself back from that because of

you

guys!!
Now, you think I'm scum with

Dwlee

??? Hilarious!

I didn't want to use my own meta before, but you're giving me no choice rn. My scum games so far:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=85994
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=86864

@Salsa, I think Dwlee is scum, and I think you could be scum with him. However, I also think N_M could be scum with dwlee. Dwlee is the common denominator amongst these teams.

Separately, my degree of confidence on Dwlee I'd say is at around 80% right now. I'd but you around 65, and N_M at 50. Mathblade around 10 (this goes up if Dwlee is scum), and Marci around 20.

Dwlee is both my most confident scumread, and is the common denominator amongst 2 probable pairings.

You act like you want to vote dwlee, but you won't stick to it, possibly because you're distancing from your partner, or possibly to muddy the waters. Given my individual reads on you two, I would say the former is more likely. On D2, when it seemed apparent that omo and dwlee had both not been voting DGB with he rest of the voting block intentionally on D1, you pushed for omo's wagon over dwlee's, but also distanced from Dwlee verbally that day.

This is exactly the kind of distancing from Dwlee that Salsa has been doing all day - seeing something so blatant, I dont understand how the consensus can be on N_M today.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What I'm worried about is if we flip town!N_M is that there isn't a clear plan for MELO. Math has been willing to engage before and now that it's about Dwlee he's not down. I don't think this town will vote Dwlee tomorrow and that loses to deepwolf Math.

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today. That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

Even if you dont want to talk about it in thread to prevent scum from having info on who to elim (bad reasoning as scum will be eliminating the conftown), think to yourself about what is left over for tomorrow's MELO on town!N_M flip vs. town!Dwlee flip.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you flip town, then either Salsabil or N_M is fine with me as I don't see Marci being scum here, and I only see scum!MathBlade with scum!Dwlee. I would prefer Salsa tomorrow, still for individual reasons, then Final 4 should be Me, Math, Marci, and N_M, and of those 4, N_M is clearly the scum imo. You should agree with me as well because you have vibes that Marci and Salsa are not teamed.

Assuming you are town, can you not see what Salsa is doing today? Why would you want N_M over Salsa? In fact, for anyone who is voting N_M (geraintm I've seen your reasoning but feel free to add more regarding Salsa if you like), why do you want to eliminate N_M

more than

anyone else?

It seems like everyone is afraid of having him in MELO tomorrow, but nobody but geraintm or I have offered reasoning as to why he is scum (that I can recall). The fact that everyone's quietly letting this happen feels wrong - does nobody else get that feeling?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If we do Dwlee today and he is town though, that

eliminates deepwolf Math from the likely pairings imo, given.his persistence on N_M today.

That leaves N_M and Salsabil and I feel like in town!Dwlee world there is no way that's not the team.

is this the only reason to eliminate math from a possible paring?

I'm TRing Math right now but their interactions with Dwlee in this game are triggering my lizard brain, like something feels off about them. N_M is so inactive and out of the game it's hard to rule anyone out of being their partner from N_M's side of the interaction, but scum!Math doesnt have to push for scum!N_M's elimination here when he as you as an option because of your hammer. So imo a scum!N_M flip indicates Math is not the last scum due to the way he is pushing for N_M toDay.

I think the only way Math can be scum here is with Dwlee and that's part of why, from a poe perspective, I like my odds better leading the next 2-3 eliminations with Dwlee.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Manatee also targeted MathBlade N2 who also confirmed she is town so yes, Manatee is confirmed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Marci has a vote too^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm...

I just opened all of MathBlade's replaced-into games for the past 2 years. I'd estimate there are about 15 of them but wasn't counting the total.

Every town game, except one, he replaces in calmly (no exclamation points in his intro). There was one exception where he rolled mason, Mini 2179.
In about half of his scum games, (again an estimate, but there were 3 exceptions) he replaces in with an exclamation point in his intro. The exceptions are games where he replaced in later into the game, BooneyToonz XV - post 1395, and mystery box of silver 10 - post 2899, and Calculasia, where he replaced in early, but his intro post is not his normal intro of "hi everyone" or "hi awesome people" + "catching up" or "skimming" or "point me in the right direction". It is a post about how he likes math and doesn't follow his normal pattern when replacing in.

Considering every time he was town he did NOT have an exclamation point except once, and there are many more town than scum games to examine, I'd say the lack of an exclamation point is not AI, but the presence of one is a hard scumtell.
VOTE: MathBlade

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I started digging deeper into his meta while reading Calculasia when I noticed he talked about Flea The Magician (fae was town) being readable like a chicken, if you put them in the oven and wait long enough you'll know what they are. It reminded me of what he said about Dwlee earlier in this game:

Spoiler: teapot read

Kyo you specifically posted [redacted] which is part of why I think you're full of crap.

I cant post anything specific about an ongoing game. If you're town you can figure it out for yourself.

Then if we can’t talk about an ongoing game it shouldn’t be alluded to. Is there another way to imply what you mean without skirting rules?

I said directly what I mean. I thought dwlee was lying about their eyes glazing over, like making up an excuse for why they're not very involved right now.

I'm not going to lie about being diagnosed with inattentiveness for mafia. If you think I'm scum whatever but that reason is absolutely awful.

I don't think you're lying about a diagnosis, but I do think you're not as in the game as you would be if you were town

Got it. I misunderstood. I was thinking you/Dwlee were talking about ongoing. I missed the context in the speed read. Dwlee in my opinion is not a good liar. I think that pushing them over RL if they are scum is the wrong way to go about it. Dwlee scum I think if you make them talk they will scumfirm or townfirm themselves but they’re a teapot read.

Yup.

I ask people to “prove” where they stand based on things to see if they are consistent. Votes is a way to do that. Sometimes I use questions.

We have right around 2 days until end of day and I have to start work in a moment.
Right now, you’re the top runner for elimination so testing you and your words is my priority.
If you don’t try to lead a wagon around someone pretty fast odds are you’ll be the flip.

So if you’re town it’s in your best interest to case someone or be as active as possible to find a probable scum and convince the rest of us they’re scum or to do something.

I do think you’re a teapot read and if you just do it I think you’re sortable.

A teapot read is one that boils overtime when put under heat. Eventually the flavor of the person will be known. Players like you and flea are that way to me.

Then case her.

In the additional games I was examining I was ctrl-f'ing his ISOs for words like "burn, heat, fire, tea, teapot, kettle, oven, chicken, turkey, roast, time, wait" etc. and couldn't find it in the first couple of towngames. When I was opening his ISOs I realized he almost always replaces in the same way, with one distinct difference. Sometimes he uses an exclamation point, and other times he does not.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This just seems like a desperate attempt not to elim Not Mafia lol. Like that’s just not even worth a response.

Facts are facts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Math would stake the game on N_M being scum? As in you die tomorrow if he flips town?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

an exclamation point.

It could be anything. It doesn't matter how small it is, it is a pattern in your play that is highly indicative of your scumgame and almost never present in your towngame. You are a creature of habit and so you stay consistent in your openings, but subconsciously, something pushes you to add that "!" when you're scum. My guess would be either you enjoy playing scum or you get nervous playing scum and overcompensate. It doesn't matter why you do it though, all that matters is that it is a provable indicator that you are >90% (estimated, the actual percentage will be coming after quotes) likely to be scum here.

I'm going to start getting the quotes now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Disregard my exclamation point point

VOTE: dwlee

The first time I went through I was looking at Math's whole ego and clicking what looked like Games, then when I went to get quotes I did an advanced search for Author "MathBlade" Return results as "Post Topics" and Search Forums under "Mafia Games" to filter out all the other topics I was sifting through visually the first time.

I've already found 2 towngames in the first 4 or so I opened that have exclamation points, so the presence is not AI after all

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Disregard my exclamation point point

VOTE: dwlee

The first time I went through I was looking at Math's whole ego and clicking what looked like Games, then when I went to get quotes I did an advanced search for Author "MathBlade" Return results as "Post Topics" and Search Forums under "Mafia Games" to filter out all the other topics I was sifting through visually the first time.

I've already found 2 towngames in the first 4 or so I opened that have exclamation points, so the presence is not AI after all

Why even look in the first place? What prompted that?

You are insistent on speeding through this day, killing N_M without a case, ignoring any points I make against Dwlee. You talk about guiding us into a favorable ELO situation but it's exactly the way a deepwolf would win this - just talking mechanics that are protown and claiming it is protown to keep your reads close to your chest here. It positions you to be flexible to vote anyone left in MELO.

You, as town, should have a similar POV to me, as we are both the consensus townreads that are likely to be responsible for the decisionmaking in ELO due to the fact the conftown will die. You should realize, as I have, that there is no risk in outing what we're thinking as town right now - neither of us die before MELO, so our reads will not influence scums' kills, and even if they do, scum have to choose to leave conftown alive to kill either of us. That is what is

actually

pro-town. Instead you are trying to close discussion. By not talking now, we have fewer conftown to talk with when tomorrow and the next day come.

So I get suspicious, because your play doesn't

feel

quite like town. I feel like you

look

town but are intentionally leading town down the wrong path, and on top of that, you seem to be ignoring anything I have to say about Dwlee, who is my top scumread by play. I would expect town to engage me on this, but you aren't, so I get suspicious.

That's why I looked in the first place. Also I'm only alive in one game right now so I have a lot of time to look at meta for this one, and I hadn't looked at you yet. I've looked at Salsabil, Dwlee, Manatee (on D1), and you now. I already dived Marci in Owner's Market Blitz very recently, and I was scum with Titus in a large that has completed now, and scum against her in the Mini that traitor T3 guiltied my partner Manatee in, so I felt like I'd know if she was scum.

geraintm I was happy to leave a day yesterDay and it turned out he was IC so I never had to meta him. I feel like meta'ing N_M will be useless because of his playstyle but I should probably try.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: N_M meta

Lmao, just went to read some N_M games and the first one I open is a nightless micro where he gets hammered on page 1 as VT

Still looking, just thought I'd share.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Marci wya

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I haven't been able to find scum games of his on my phone. I dont think Marci and Dwlee can be teamed though so even if N_M flips town, that leaves Salsa partnered with one of them, if I ignore {Math, Dwlee}. I'm kind of prepared to ignore that pairing at this point because I feel like nobody else thinks it's possible, so if that is the team, I've lost regardless.