Mini Normal 2223 | Town Wins!

[MaxTheFox]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

[MaxTheFox]

This is my third game on MS. My previous two games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642 - Scum. Proud of this one.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913 - Town. Not proud of this one because I was busy and lurked and made myself sus.

[MaxTheFox]

So you're voting for town?

[MaxTheFox]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

[MaxTheFox]

general consensus seems to be a dislike of their entry which i think is pretty nai

I don't see a consensus, I see a RVS wagon.

[MaxTheFox]

max's response to votes on her is weird

Well I'm not panicking because the votes were piled up during late RVS. What did you expect me to say? Honest question.

[MaxTheFox]

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

[MaxTheFox]

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

[MaxTheFox]

@Mod I confirmed already, update the OP please, check your inbox.

[MaxTheFox]

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

[MaxTheFox]

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

[MaxTheFox]

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

[MaxTheFox]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

He's the only one who is actually trying to play the game.

Scum!Not_Mafia is usually happy to troll.

Yup I read a random other game of his (Baseball) and he played in a similar way there and was town, that's another reason I trust NM.

[MaxTheFox]

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

[MaxTheFox]

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

[MaxTheFox]

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

[MaxTheFox]

Are fake guilties really such a common thing?

[MaxTheFox]

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

[MaxTheFox]

Town
Salsabil
DGB
Roden
omo
Saudade

Townlean
Not_Mafia

Null
Titus
Geraint

Limbo
Marci
Manatee

Scum
Max
Dwlee

This is where I'm at. Take my TRs with a grain of salt though because I'm generally bad at identifying town and better at finding scum.

Explain your scumread on me.

[MaxTheFox]

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

[MaxTheFox]

which is why I think you're the most compelling lynch here, based on.. well, the quality of your content

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87190

[MaxTheFox]

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

[MaxTheFox]

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

[MaxTheFox]

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

[MaxTheFox]

Just... No lim? Huh?

But if we NL day 1 then we wouldn't have much info day 2 aside from the NK flip (who will be a townie) and any investigatives that decide to come out. And barring a good vig shot, we have no chance to kill mafia until day 2 in that case.

[MaxTheFox]

Oh, ialways advocate no eliminatiom day 1. I believe we are much more likely to eliminate town than scum day 1, so why give them a free elim

See I think omo has at least scum equity. You might disagree, but in that case lim is better as killing scum usually has a bigger positive impact than the negative impact of killing a townie (there are less scum, thus we need to kill less to win, while scum needs to kill more).

[MaxTheFox]

Will catch up tomorrow, I'm sleepy right now.

[MaxTheFox]

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

[MaxTheFox]

max being scum is as easy of a read as "just read the damn iso" + looking at how passive they acted around wagons. I'm confident enough to say they scumclaimed with their first post but that's just me hey.

You still didn't explain in what way I scumclaimed, and now you're actually serious about it. You're scum, omo.

How about this: max's day one ISO has content on a variety of slots, but almost all of it is extremely surface level except for her read on omo. 439 and 466 have depth, but posts like 457 are more like active lurking than really solving.

omo is just my main scumread and I'm focusing on them more.

[MaxTheFox]

Can max just claim next post btw

I'm a VT. If you kill me, get omo next.

[MaxTheFox]

Why claim lmfao
They need to explain their dayplay, I don't give a shit what they claim, it doens't clear their dayplay up. We already had a self clear role claim so there's 0 chance of that here.

Explain

your

dayplay first, as I and others asked you several times.

[MaxTheFox]

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

[MaxTheFox]

[ssbm]
[mathblade, titus, marci]
[Dwlee, Salsa]
[geraint, N_M]
[Max, omo]

i have like two weeks of english work I need to do so I'm going to be away from thread for quite a while

LMAO!

OMO

is going hard for

Max

, remember?

I guess Manatee thinks there's cross-bussing going on or something?

[MaxTheFox]

I didn't interact with DGB because DGB was lurking. That's all, I had nothing to build off of.

[MaxTheFox]

Why claim lmfao
They need to explain their dayplay, I don't give a shit what they claim, it doens't clear their dayplay up. We already had a self clear role claim so there's 0 chance of that here.

Explain

your

dayplay first, as I and others asked you several times.

Lowkey

OMO

's play style will always be scummy to me, but agenda wise I think they're town here.
On the other hand, I gave you a benefit of doubt in D1 but now I think you're using this

lurking

attitude to stay away from the limelight as scum.

Just my playstyle I guess. Unlike my last town game I actually have time to post right now.

[MaxTheFox]

Why claim lmfao
They need to explain their dayplay, I don't give a shit what they claim, it doens't clear their dayplay up. We already had a self clear role claim so there's 0 chance of that here.

Explain

your

dayplay first, as I and others asked you several times.

Lowkey

OMO

's play style will always be scummy to me, but agenda wise I think they're town here.
On the other hand, I gave you a benefit of doubt in D1 but now I think you're using this

lurking

attitude to stay away from the limelight as scum.

Just my playstyle I guess. Unlike my last town game I actually have time to post right now.

Do you catch up fully? If so, can you give a read-list if possible?

I will once I catch up again.

[MaxTheFox]

and max since we're all here how do u feel abt salsa, specifically her vote on you?

Salsa, like Dwlee, is town to me. And her vote is also similar to Dwlee's: misguided townie.

Do you really trust the person who accused me of scumclaiming, pointing to a random post, and didn't explain it?

[MaxTheFox]

Also look at my last towngame! Even after I stopped being so busy I was about as active as I am now. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86913

[MaxTheFox]

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

[MaxTheFox]

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

[MaxTheFox]

Also the reason I'm "lurking" is that I'm in GMT+7. That's why I have to catch up a lot.

[MaxTheFox]

Didn't catch up fully but my reads are formed, might as well.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Reads (this is sorted within tiers):

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
MathBlade (this was Saudade) - his attempts at solving earn him a lot of good boy points.
Salsabil - kept up the good tone.

TOWN LEAN

Manatee - gut read remains.
Not_Mafia - read stayed.
Dwlee - 50% meta read on this, dubious, I'm not locked onto this in any way.

NULL

marcistar - barely there. Lurker.
ssbm - just generally doesn't ping me as

anything

.
Titus - same.

SCUM LEAN

geraintm - suggested no-lim day 1 which is usually considered a bad idea. Also lurking.

SCUM BIN

omo - see the previous list, except their accusation of a scumclaim is serious now apparently.

---

It's easier for me to townread than scumread people, I found.

[MaxTheFox]

I'd put Max in the townblock based on the composition of the wagon on him.

"Pronoun: She"

[MaxTheFox]

I mean whatever I don't care, they're not good enough as scum to maintain it to endgame so I'm not too pressed about yall not figuring it out and TBH it'll help us in the longterm if they don't get turbo'd because it'll catch their other scumbud easily.

You seem to be assuming I am scum and going from there.

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

Is this a crumb or what?

[MaxTheFox]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I'm tunneling because I don't have many SRs besides omo. I didn't call anyone in my last towngame misguided town because the push on me there was valid: I was lurking. And in what way did I post more in Screaming? Read that game again, I was silent for most of D1.

[MaxTheFox]

Also with Manatee as townlean on a gut read it is evident she isn't reading, and the placement of Salsabil I'd say is questionable at best. Also, I dont ping them as anything??? That seems odd to me. They also have geraintm low on their list which is convenient considering the geraintm-salsabil dynamic and the plausible association with Salsabil

How is it evident I'm not reading? It's literally a vibe read.

[MaxTheFox]

Responses in bold.

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

Spoiler: quotes related to omo

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Also when I SRed her D1 she asked me to explain it and I never really did and she just dropped it.

You never pushed me again after that.

I also found these gems:

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

So arbitrarily she will meta one player but rely on others for Dwlee. Her response is that Dwlee's activity is a point against him, which reads as a scumlean but I think should indicate a townlean considering he was more talkative as scum and is now less talkative. Weird choice of words, but it's ESL so maybe it's nothing.

Yeah I admit I worded it poorly.

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo.

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?

I feel like

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

This is just a lazy faked read on dwlee and a lazy scum looking for the VC to find where to vote

I wanted a VC because I wanted to see how close people are to hammer.

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

Now it's tone, not activity, by the way.

Por que no los dos?

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

she seems like she's been pretty confident in dwlee as town all game until a wagon started up on him, pretty interesting.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...

There's also several stabs at rolefishing in her relatively short ISO which you'll want to read anyway to get an idea of the other, non-omo interactions she has had.

Show them to us.

[MaxTheFox]

So yeah Salsabil is now getting on the early bus of Max I think to try to ride towncred amongst the block. Also Salsabil, Max, and Looker are hilariously tunneling on omo, it's kind of absurd. I think DGB realizes on replace in that's kind of a dumb play and does the weird vote/unvote spam on Not_Mafia and Distance from Max and Salsa's stances on omo.

There are some pretty damning associatives between Max and DGB. When seeing my readlist that has Salsa and DGB as town, and Max as scum, she only cares to ask me why I SR her, even though she has DGB as scum that needs to come post. She should also be asking why I TR DGB if she is town.

She also posts frequently about DGB needing to post more but that she is giving DGB a pass for now - easy to shade your partner and not vote them.

There is also an unusual amount of focus on dwlee in he ISO and it took me a little bit to figure it out but ironically I think they thought he was a mason and were trying to buddy him.

I focused on Dwlee because I remember him well and wanted to take a stab at meta-reading.

[MaxTheFox]

its vv clear she is not reading and i dont see why town lies about that, the catchups r just random engagements and i dont think theyre made in attempt to start meaningful conversations but rather as an attempt to seem involved

How. Am. I. Not. Reading?

[MaxTheFox]

its vv clear she is not reading and i dont see why town lies about that, the catchups r just random engagements and i dont think theyre made in attempt to start meaningful conversations but rather as an attempt to seem involved

Engagements with people who push me, as well as pushing my main SR. Why shouldn't I defend myself?

[MaxTheFox]

I am trying my absolute best and I definitely feel more engaged than my last towngame. But it's frustrating when the harder I try, the more I get pushed.

[MaxTheFox]

max you have completely missed the fact i am a claimed self confirming PR

Yeah I missed that when making the list, I was nervous. You're townbinned.

[MaxTheFox]

Do you have any other complaints about my list other than me missing your claim?

[MaxTheFox]

hey marci

hi, im a bit tired rn lol (2am)

- -

i wanna ask tho

max

, have you stated your opinions on the drippinggoofball wagon yet? if not, can u?
theres a wholeass scumflip to use to help with reasonings for things and such, it feels a bit weird u haven't explained things more.

My opinions:
- I don't like omo's sudden hammer on it.

VOTE: DGB

whatever

there's absolutely no agreement here and I don't think DGB is that valuable to the gamestate anyways so yeah

I'm hammering this so no shit counterwagon happens because no one wants to go for any of my scumreads and this is at least low in my reads

It just reads like a frustrated scum hammering a doomed buddy last second for towncred. I'm not biased, in a hypothetical world where I TRed omo that would still raise an eyebrow. But this is just another finger towards omo.
- I probably should have helped push it instead-- there was little momentum on omo.
- It's interesting that it formed quickly, almost flashwagoning IIRC, then died down just as quickly and was revived. This seems like possible aborted bussing. You, marcistar, are the only constant on it in fact.

[MaxTheFox]

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I'm tunneling because I don't have many SRs besides omo. I didn't call anyone in my last towngame misguided town because the push on me there was valid: I was lurking. And in what way did I post more in Screaming? Read that game again, I was silent for most of D1.

Personally I think the misguided townie phrase is one you've adopted when TMIing town that are pushing you.

No it's a personal catchphrase/verbal tic of mine, I used it before I started playing forum mafia (I come from TOS/chat mafia).

The posts you make in Screaming are more full of content.

Yes but there were fewer posts because I didn't have much time.

You interact with many slots, and show thought processes that indicate you're trying to solve the game.

Well even here I respond to many people even if they aren't talking to me, just right now I'm busy defending myself which is more important.

Here, you have a few insignificant interactions outside of those that push omo, and those that do push omo are not doing it in the same way that you posted in your towngame.

Omo is off-the-charts scummy for me.

Also with Manatee as townlean on a gut read it is evident she isn't reading, and the placement of Salsabil I'd say is questionable at best. Also, I dont ping them as anything??? That seems odd to me. They also have geraintm low on their list which is convenient considering the geraintm-salsabil dynamic and the plausible association with Salsabil

How is it evident I'm not reading? It's literally a vibe read.

Manatee is conftown so if you'd read you would have seen that.

I missed that specifically, as explained.

Responses in bold.

If you need reasons, town!max isn't a tunneler, she actually interacts. She posts more. She doesn't call people misguided town.

Scum!max does call people misguided town and her reaction is to buddy in response to pressure (see dwlee). She comments on the night kills. She posts reads lists with little to no reasoning attached. She lurks more.

Scum!max means town!mathblade and last scum is probably salsabil. The last 2 scum having English as a second language explains why Manatee and I were both not killed. That and my solve at end of day 1 pointed to 2 town.

I promise to take a look at that game but how exactly is max tunneling this game?
I am shit with scumreads but I am pretty good with town ones and Max is a townread.
Like call it a vibe but I really think she’s town.
I wish I could explain it but I don’t think she is scum.

Spoiler: quotes related to omo

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

In what way is it a scumclaim? I think I'm keeping the vote then...

In what way isn't it?

The burden of proof is on you, you accused me first.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

It's scummy because it gets in the way of town's discussion. Especially since RVS is pretty much over.

And answer my question, with how you're dodging people's questions I'm happy to lock my vote onto you.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Weird bc I've been doing more discussion than you have. Sounds like youre your own obstacle to getting into discussion and you're projecting that onto me

Also what you claim isnt proof that is my intent nor does your analysis look at intent. Happy to dunk you if you keep this up.

What discussion have you been doing until page 10? Most of your posts up to that point were, as I said, question-dodges. What town intent could this possibly have? But honestly it's early and I'm not locking onto you yet. Do better.

Reads:

TOWN BIN

MaxTheFox - I'm town.
Salsabil - good tone and trying to solve the game early = town in my eyes.

TOWN LEAN

Saudade - at first I didn't like their tone but I don't really see scum being likely to be so nonchalant, if that's the right word.
Manatee - gut read. Trust me on this.
Not_Mafia - yes he is a troll but at the same time it looks like he's actually contributing and trying to solve. Unlike the other Miltank avatar in the game...

NULL

Everyone else, expect another list later in day 1 when there is more content.

SCUM LEAN

omo - trolled in an useless way, dodged questions, picked up the slack in the last page which is why I'm not binning them as scum,
DGB (Looker) - another gut read. I'll let DGB post before voting them though.

SCUM BIN

Nobody yet.

Quote the posts you think are best indicative of me being scummy.

Still waiting for you to explain this:

Is Not_Mafia trolling or what?

VOTE: omo for being the only other one not to confirm.

VOTE: MaxTheFox
This is a nervous scumclaim right here

And this:

on a serious note i dont like lookers passivity in regards to being asked about voting

I think Looker's behavior is pretty town indicative in thought process, if very chaotic in nature.

Mention the post(s) you find town indicative please.

Which ones are scum indicative?

It should be obvious:

omo is either scum or just trying to cause chaos. None of their posts make much sense as town, they're either baseless accusations or dodging questions.

Yes I am causing chaos. Why is that scummy?

---

And just a normal response:

Getting kinda annoyed at the discreds coming at my slot because I crack jokes/play to unsettle occasionally just bc its unorthodox.

Cracking jokes =/= randomly accusing people. It just looked like scum trying to throw shade at someone early.

to be fair there hasn't been a single obvtown in this game so far and that's a bit worrying

Salsabil to me is, if not quite obvtown, pretty damn close.

You can't find anyone to have a confident scumread on because you are TMIing i believe and cannot find anything that looks scummy to you becauwe townies are towning and you dont wanna push your scumbuds.

I said I found your random pushing scummy. IMO that's not the way to move the game forward-- it creates false reads on people. The game can move forward naturally, look at other games, in many others of a comparable size RVSS ended earlier because a lead presented itself-- often someone saying something scummy, not because of a false accusation. The game's moving, but if you are town then it's moving in the wrong direction because you are scumread by many. Who are my scumbuds according to you?

If this isn't the case it would help if you could outline how you reached some of the conclusions you're tossing out.

I don't feel like "playing to unsettle" is a good play during RVS and in any case it came off as an attempt to miss-lim someone early or start a wagon rather than a genuine town play. That's my main conclusion: your play looked outrageously scum-motivated to me and most of the rest of the day so far was spent defending it.

VOTE: Roden

i think ur getting way too defensive considering the people calling u out r not even full on saying ur wolfy

Is this "caught for the wrong reasons?"

That's the question.

Like DGB as town. Mindmeld.

DGB needs to post more.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Also when I SRed her D1 she asked me to explain it and I never really did and she just dropped it.

You never pushed me again after that.

I also found these gems:

BTW last game I played with Dwlee he was scum and was talkative. Now he's quieter. Anyone who knows Dwlee better, is this NAI or no?

So you will meta N_M but not Dwlee? Why is that?

I feel activity is a weaker meta tell than playstyle usually. It's still a point against Dwlee tho.

So arbitrarily she will meta one player but rely on others for Dwlee. Her response is that Dwlee's activity is a point against him, which reads as a scumlean but I think should indicate a townlean considering he was more talkative as scum and is now less talkative. Weird choice of words, but it's ESL so maybe it's nothing.

Yeah I admit I worded it poorly.

I stand by my meta-read on Dwlee (town, he was more talkative as scum IIRC) and my general SR on omo.

VOTE: omo

Now she's saying after the scumflip, first thing in the morning, she stands by her meta-townread on dwlee, but is still tunneled on omo.

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?

I feel like

Dwlee is just wrong town I suppose. This is town Dwlee.

@Mod can we get a VC?

This is just a lazy faked read on dwlee and a lazy scum looking for the VC to find where to vote

I wanted a VC because I wanted to see how close people are to hammer.

Max can you explain more why you really think I'm town this game?

Gut + meta. You had a different tone in Screaming.

Now it's tone, not activity, by the way.

Por que no los dos?

On VC1-3 I like Dwelee as scum. Mari and Ssbm as town.

Based on VC 1-3, I find no scum on the Dwlee wagon on count 4.

1-5 Maricstar omo dynamic is interesting. Marci might be a wagon to save owo.

Math or Omo likely scum. Leaning owo.

But yeah. I'm not binning Dwlee as town for this reason.

she seems like she's been pretty confident in dwlee as town all game until a wagon started up on him, pretty interesting.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...

There's also several stabs at rolefishing in her relatively short ISO which you'll want to read anyway to get an idea of the other, non-omo interactions she has had.

Show them to us.

You never pushed me again after that.:

That's why it's scummy that you let it go. You only cared to interact with me when I was scumreading you, and when I stopped scumreading you, you stopped caring, even though I never answered your question. If you really thought my push on you was in bad faith, you would still want to follow up with me about it, but you just drop it and go back to tunneling omo.

I thought that you were either just a wrong townie who made a bad push, or a mafioso who tried to shade and couldn't answer my question. I decided to not risk it. Anyways, if you are town, why didn't you answer my question then?

What's wrong tiwh tunneling the person you think is blatant scum?:

You demonstrated in your towngame that you're not a tunneler as town. Additionally, there is no hard rule that says "tunneling always come from scum", but when tunneling comes from town, it is often easy to see. You look like tunneled scum.

I wasn't tunneling then because, IIRC, I had several equal scumreads. And explain the difference between scum and town tunneling.

Not that confident, if I was confident I'd have townbinned him...:

Although you didn't place him in the bin in your reads lists, you treat him like he is in your townbin by saying he is a "misguided townie." You imply that despite negative actions that could be seen as scummy that you are sure he is town. To me, this is more indicative of a solid townread than a meta-based townlean.

The "likely" is implied in all accusations of misguided townishness. Of course they could be scum, saying otherwise every time I say someone is one is TMI.

Marci- Same reason I suspect her that I do Manatee. However, I feel like Marci more blatantly tried to distance herself. Possibly scum trying to associate herself with a town!Manatee in order to build fake scum equity.

Also don't think Marci has been doing much solving or scum hunting, mainly just chatting with everyone and being friendly.

having trouble with my reads, though that isn't too much of a valid excuse. I have townreads mostly, and "they dont seem scummy enough to vote" reads, but im not really too confident in anything.

All things considered, I'm interested in voting out either Marci or Max unless someone can come up with a compelling enough case for somebody else.

whatchu waiting for? why didnt u vote in this post if ur willing to vote out either of me/max?

Who are your town reads? Who looks scummy but not enough to vote them?

I waited to vote because I wanted to see reactions to my lack of vote. I think your reaction is the most interesting, it reads like you want to "gotcha" me for not voting. But all you're doing is implying it's suspicious. Compare this to Math who made a full scum case out of it.

VOTE: Marcistar

Max- The root of most of my scum reads. She took a lot of heat early on then laid low ever since. Posts occasionally to avoid prod dodge accusations, but she isn't really doing anything. Most likely just trying to avoid attention, to the point it's becoming obvious.

I haven't been exactly laying low. Look at my ISO.

I've seen your ISO, a lot of your posts became very safe after your wagon cooled off. It's hard to read your posts and not notice how cautious you've been.

Saudade town read dropping dramatically in just two pages. Didn't expect that.

No he's just an pillion. An pillion with town vibes tho. I can't quite explain it.

Wait he got replaced? I didn't catch up yet. Welcome Math!

I can agree with this.

I am cautious but I'm town. Getting wagoned is not in my best interest as any alignment

.

---

Elimination on omo seems the safest to me at this point. They haven't countered my last response to them (466) at all despite posting after I posted it. They're just oddly detached despite being aggressive if that makes sense.

Possible PR Soft

Well I didn't intend this, and I'm not a PR anyways.

Just... No lim? Huh?

But if we NL day 1 then we wouldn't have much info day 2 aside from the NK flip (who will be a townie) and any investigatives that decide to come out. And barring a good vig shot, we have no chance to kill mafia until day 2 in that case.

Rolefishing.

If I didn't put the bit about investigatives it wouldn't be a correct statement.

Can max just claim next post btw

I'm a VT. If you kill me, get omo next.

Into claimed VT

Because I am VT.

I mean whatever I don't care, they're not good enough as scum to maintain it to endgame so I'm not too pressed about yall not figuring it out and TBH it'll help us in the longterm if they don't get turbo'd because it'll catch their other scumbud easily.

You seem to be assuming I am scum and going from there.

it would be a shame if an even night investigative caught them tonight though.

Is this a crumb or what?

Rolefishing. Thought I saw more yesterday but a speedread only reveals this. Maybe they were in Salsabil/Looker/DGB's ISOs.

Well in this case they have a target on their back with that "crumb" anyways so i don't see why this is scummy.