Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[Dannflor]

they'll get there

eventually

[Dannflor]

but also it's page 2 how much sorting are you expecting

[Dannflor]

but also it's page 2 how much sorting are you expecting

Do you understand the mechanics of post 16?

I do

it happens every game of this setup ime, at the very least we know ydrasse is town from it

[Dannflor]

Good thing I don't play like T3

that's exactly what you would say if you were playing like T3!!

[Dannflor]

shouldn't mafia always insta-accept?

[Dannflor]

I feel like Ydrasse wouldn't troll here as scum.

what leads you to believe that?

[Dannflor]

ydrasse

SS

murdercat

[Dannflor]

Dann got the sweaty scum in rvs aura

im always sweaty in rvs

[Dannflor]

Also Dann I'm more than a bit curious why you townlean me, given that you were trepidatious to townread me last time we played and you still did it and it ended up being a mistake.

I've been deliberately trying to lay "paranoia" as having a strong effect on my reads aside, because it annoys me to no end when applied to me

it's a very slight town lean, but I had pretty much the exact same thought process as you when it came to town reading ydrasse, so I liked that post

[Dannflor]

Dann what are your reads

ss slightly town

murdercat slightly scum because I think town just uh... *does* his plan instead of being like "im gonna do this plan" it's a little more lamisty

[Dannflor]

I kinda take the opposite approach, where I frame "paranoia" as "I actually just can't read this person as well as I would like". But I'm not exactly the model of self-confidence.

I take the eternal optimism approach of "one day I'm gonna get better at reading this person / reads in general"

it's not necessarily realistic but makes the game more fun overall for me

[Dannflor]

"im gonna do this plan" it's a little more lamisty

Well there was a whole discussion about why scum might do it so I figured it was worth mentioning

yeah it was a very slight ping, but it just struck me as out of place

like saying "I'm gonna solve" instead of like, actually solving

I have no doubt if you're town you be solving throughout the late game but I can also see scum wanting to optically look like they're trying to do that

[Dannflor]

I have murder as basically locktown anyway.

elaborate?

[Dannflor]

@dann I don't think murder has a particularly strong scumgame, and his solving energy is very genuine. I've seen it a few times before from him

what solving has he done this game? this feels like a tone read but I feel like tone reads need a lot more time to develop before they approach anywhere near lock-levels

[Dannflor]

murdercat/catboi while we're doing hero solves

the cat team

[Dannflor]

never mind I think murdercat is towny

[Dannflor]

As town I think there's a decent chance he takes it more slow, but I feel like he's trying to look active here.

I have actually been deliberately trying to take it slow for whatever that is worth

[Dannflor]

I think SS #40 with his initial reaction of rolling into this game being that, "oh shit, I can't read anyone here" is fairly genuine. I would kinda of expect scum coming in here to take some sort of stance or another on the ydrasse-hectic thing, but instead SS follows it up with a question meant to sort Hectic.

I at first didn't particularly like Prism's shading of Hectic and his decision to trust fall Ydrasse. It felt slightly too close to annoyed scum that the trust fall would work, but on the other hand, I feel like Prism knew it was going to happen and I'm not sure he'd be taking that stance so strongly with the knowledge that Hectic and ydrasse were about to flip town.

it's a little weird focus has been on HEM for seeding doubt over prism though, if that is a legitimate concern people have

#91 is a little performative, not scummy necessarily, just performative

I also thought Murdercat's post about his game plan to be performative and a little scummy, but rethinking I feel it's less likely he makes that post as scum A. immediately after town just got a YOLO fall right off the bat and B. when it's likely to increase town's chances of trust falling each other instead of him. especially given the assumption that Mudercat does not have a particularly strong scum game, (I'm trusting Infinity here) I doubt murdercat would suddenly decide that his best plan was to stay until late game, make sure his partner got away, and then use a ton of town cred to get away. seems way too risky overall

Infinity I think has been really town so far. her read on murdercat especially reads genuine and was the main thing that got me rethinking my read. has actively tried to engage almost everyone and none of her solving seems performative. idk I don't really feel the need to case this

prism is mixed but gun to head I would lean town

leaving: HEM, catboi, inutile

[Dannflor]

I don't think the scum leans on me are that unusual, my entrances to games are usually awkward enough and I will admit I feel doubly awkward in this playerlist because I know most of you like 1/4th as well as you all know each other. and two of the people I know best just left immediately. so I'm a little lost in piecing together how many people are just instantly getting meta reads on each other + being naturally distrustful of how easily those reads are formed. Like in the instance of infinity's read on murdercat, it seems like the type of thing that is so easily manipulated. I also don't think murdercat is a bad player and even if he is slightly polarized, would be able to adjust around people he knows. On the other hand, it's helpful because it's easier to see what's a genuine read and what isn't, I think infinity very much believes her read

catboi's scum ping on me was the only one that like, had me pause, because it feels more surface level than the other takes. in fact, I'd go as far as saying most of catboi's takes have been pretty surface level. it feels like they are rushing through trying to give takes rather than taking a moment to think them out

[Dannflor]

Dann got the sweaty scum in rvs aura

I think I will claim my strategy. I want to be alive late into the game and won't be trusting until endgame

Towny

Prism/S_S town, this game is going to be over in like a day

like this is what I'm talking about, it feels like fake bravado

I think purely on tone this feels towny because oof they are excited to be sorting and giving a lot of takes but

it actually just feels more like catboi is making it up. mostly because most of his posts are *giving* takes in reaction to things but he's not actually interacting with any of things to plumb deeper. It's just observing and then spitting out the opinion

[Dannflor]

I get it, you're still scum though sorry

that's fine

I'll stick around with murdercat

[Dannflor]

I want like SS/Infinity

[Dannflor]

yeah no I actually feel weirdly good about SS and I don't want catboi near him

[Dannflor]

you and SS will always live in the could be scum range

this is lazy

I'm not calling you scum but this is a bad way to play mafia I think

[Dannflor]

Something_Smart just gets underestimated a lot I think

[Dannflor]

this is lazy

I'm not calling you scum but this is a bad way to play mafia I think

In this particular setup I am pretty confident that it makes sense to have questionable but leantown players pair up at some point. I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to do it early or later, but I do think it's advantageous.

I don't take qualms with that logic, I take qualms with the assumption that neither will become more readable

[Dannflor]

at the very least I don't think it'd be too controversial to say catboi and prism probably aren't buddies?

like i'm not completely discounting theatre but this feels like a very weird type of theatre to do for

[Dannflor]

First move into the game I'm going to be firing surface-level takes, depth and nuance comes later as there's more to work off of, that stuff's all gut.

that is fair

it just felt like... posting to post?

I have yet to see that gut stuff be coalesced and synthesized into your later nuanced reads so it's possible I'm scum reading a play style

[Dannflor]

even if I had 100% confidence in the next pair I would not be pushing them to leave immediately?

[Dannflor]

why is it so urgent hem

[Dannflor]

I think HEM's paranoia is towny

[Dannflor]

any immediate reads, inutile?

[Dannflor]

Dannflor do you remember the last time we played

yes but vaguely

I had a lot going on IRL and lurked out of the game iirc

[Dannflor]

any immediate reads, inutile?

not really beyond what i or others have said,

you haven't stated any

that's why I asked

[Dannflor]

I'm town here

[Dannflor]

can you elaborate more on what exactly I've done and what the similarities are

I feel like I just stated a town read on you

[Dannflor]

she was talking to me with the first line, p sure

[Dannflor]

if the reads you want are just,

_ is town
or
_ is mafia

that'd just be me assigning way more weight than the scales actually have

no I just want some evidence that you're thinking about posts and actions in relation to people's alignments

like what is your gut telling you or have certain posts made you lean more this way and that

even just like "I'm unsure on x because of this towny thing but also this scummy thing happened"

[Dannflor]

can you elaborate more on what exactly I've done and what the similarities are

I feel like I just stated a town read on you

@infinity

[Dannflor]

no, it makes sense to some degree, although my memory of noraaland is very bad because I was basically playing on auto pilot

your reason for town reading murder did not hold any weight for me, but I like believed it did for you?

anyway, at risk of sounding like I’m trying to pocket you more, this exchange plus the gloating smiley face accompanying your read on me feels like an unnecessary prod for scum to make. yeah yeah yeah I know noraaland

[Dannflor]

ah, I meant in the sense, it made me go “huh” and reread the game with a more open mind wrt murder

I don’t think your specific reasoning actually holds much water

Which I realize is contradictory in a way but whatever

[Dannflor]

I think there’s an enigmatic genuine tone meta aspect to it too

But that alone for a read assumes murdercat is a bad player

[Dannflor]

well “solving energy” is quite vague so I won’t argue with you there

I do think people need to be able to replicate basic aspects of their town meta to be considered good players though

[Dannflor]

mmm i like catboi better now and now I have too many town reads

[Dannflor]

Catboi should I be townreading you?

why did you ask this?

[Dannflor]

if they do pair though, and HEM is scum, S_S looks bad

[Dannflor]

i also have those reads

[Dannflor]

I don't that was a lie

[Dannflor]

holy shit Prism is town

where's the trust

[Dannflor]

what is the point of the self-meta showcase?

[Dannflor]

no that's perfectly fine I was just wondering there was some ulterior motive

[Dannflor]

sorry for absence, I keep reading and just feel like I have nothing to worthwhile to add, maybe because I'm a somewhat consensus scum read

I do vibe with catboi's inability to get any strong scum reads. I'm sort of failing to get strong town reads as well though. I feel like i've come close and then something comes along to undermine them immediately everytime, which is a bit demotivating

I will be back tomorrow for a full reread

[Dannflor]

it's just awkward because I don't even know who I would trust at this point

[Dannflor]

That sucks

[Dannflor]

for whoever / people who are town reading inutile

why?

not that I scum read them but I genuinely feel I don't know how to read them and I would much appreciate a case in one direction or another

[Dannflor]

I'm so shit at reading ss

[Dannflor]

I'd appreciate if no one else left until I have some time to more fully catch up tomorrow

I don't really think Murdercat is scum which means that proposed town block of HEM loses us the game

[Dannflor]

Also Dann is never going to townread me again

I don't know what it is but you really see something in my scumgame, lmao.

I'm just more determined than ever to figure you out now

fun game everyone, sorry for my lack of engagement, I feel partially responsible for the outcome here

congrats to scum!

[Dannflor]

I felt there was a lot of history and meta experiences between players in this plist that I really struggled to read the interactions of, and I let it demotivate me. I wish I could try again and give it more energy. I was also pretty disappointed that two of the players I knew / have had the most experience with before left immediately

[Dannflor]

I had specifically asked for more time but I did obviously know that wasn't likely to be listened to given I was a consensus scum read

[Dannflor]

Seconding this-I appreciated the content you gave but never took the time how to figure out what to ask you/what to look for to get you more involved. This is a shame since you really went out of your way to try and give reads+reasoning early on Day 2 and I was like "Well this is nice, wellreasoned, but probably within this person's range so back to reading HEM/Infinity I guess". I didn't take the time to engage you to really figure you out, and was too content to let you sit in nullscum by default.

And you likely weren't wrong to think that it was still within my range, that was my best attempt to pull out of it but some games I really struggle to of my own volition be like... ahhhh how do I correctly townspew here without seeming desperate