Open 821 | Fall With Your Friends | Endgame

[catboi]

Hey what's going o-

（・□・；）

[catboi]

Literally inevitable lol

I'm shocked it took them that long, tbh.

[catboi]

Good thing I don't play like T3

that's exactly what you would say if you were playing like T3!!

No irony: this post pings

[catboi]

Dann got the sweaty scum in rvs aura

[catboi]

I think I will claim my strategy. I want to be alive late into the game and won't be trusting until endgame

Towny

[catboi]

Prism/S_S town, this game is going to be over in like a day

[catboi]

Think there's ample scum motive for hem to try to paranoia people out of an early town-town pair, not fully confident there but wouldn't want him trusted this round

[catboi]

Prism/S_S town, this game is going to be over in like a day

I would probably vote you out in a heartbeat for this post, but I also didn't like your entrance because I strongly suspect you were reading before the day end.

I know you'll never love me and I have to live with that (✖╭╮✖)


By the time I noticed the game thread, it was already locked. I read some in the interim to see what happened. ¯\_( ◉ 3 ◉ )_/¯

[catboi]

This is the game, Prism

This is the game where I townread you and never let myself go back on it out of doubt or pure butthurt OMGUS, while you whiff on me yet again

ω(=＾・＾=)ω

[catboi]

If we identify 4 people not to trust and both scum are in there we win

my top 3 are probably {catboi, HEM, inutile}?

Seeing as inutile hasn't posted, everyone else done something to move above null for you? IDK, feels premature, even though I don't think it's scummy.

[catboi]

This is the game, Prism

This is the game where I townread you and never let myself go back on it out of doubt or pure butthurt OMGUS, while you whiff on me yet again

ω(=＾・＾=)ω

Trust me then and prove it.

I thought you didn't want to speedgame this?

[catboi]

This is the game, Prism

This is the game where I townread you and never let myself go back on it out of doubt or pure butthurt OMGUS, while you whiff on me yet again

ω(=＾・＾=)ω

Trust me then and prove it.

I thought you didn't want to speedgame this?

Do you actually expect me, as town, to accept you?

Nope, or I'd have done it before you even asked. Still want me to make the move?

[catboi]

Yeah.

Mmm, want to give myself a chance to get reads on other people first before I make that move but probably still going to go through with it

[catboi]

Went to cross-reference something_smart in the 9p trust fall game and this one, thoughts feel more natural here, still ok with calling him town

[catboi]

tbqh I don't think any combination of scum ever wins this setup

(with this plist)

meh, pride comes before the fall. I do think the game favoring being the *most* towny tilts the advantage hard toward town, though.

[catboi]

Hectic easily could've thrown the game tho, we're at an advantage purely by a stroke of luck

[catboi]

I do really have that gut vibe still, reading your ISO has not diminished it. I agree we should take our time to play this out and will wait before making any move, though. (=^‥^=)

[catboi]

We discussed during signups that shit like Page 1 was our hypothetical worst nightmare as scum. The fact you didn't show up until after is a big redflag, as is your eagerness both to sprint straight into a loss with me and the bizarre "no speedgame" reasoning afterwards. You also know how much stronger my tone is as scum than as town. I don't buy this.

Of course you don't.

[catboi]

I did not notice the start of the game, I don't see how that specifically is a red flag for you. That'd be factually true even if I were scum, it's not like I'd lurk it out for funzies, the value of first impressions is incredibly strong and missing out potentially puts you in a hole that's hard to recover from.


However, I really, really, absolutely do not want this to be us arguing about each other, with each other, because I think it's unproductive regardless of whether I'm right on your alignment or not, so I'm going to break this off here. You are welcome to continue saying that I am lock scum if you want, I'm going to turn my attention to other people.

˚✧₊⁎( ˘ω˘ )⁎⁺˳✧༚

[catboi]

I'm sorry, I exaggerated because I couldn't resist sassing you.

[catboi]

SS/cat could be good, if there is scum in that pair so be it

Hmm, when did I go from being in your never trust group to being enough of a townread to want me to pair off?

[catboi]

Replies going to be out of sequence because I'm lazy sorry in advance

My prediction is that prism will trust SS and I will trust infinity and that will be GG
The scum team of Dann and HEM will lose

how murdercat has reads this early points towards scum.

also putting inutile as never voting when he hasn't had the opportunity to interact or read through the slot.

Murdercat was far from the only person making early reads, what makes him scummier than anyone else doing so?

[catboi]

Sorry to rope you in again so soon cat, but I'm curious if you agree with me on HEM.

Don't have a problem with you talking with me, just didn't want to make it all

about

me because I felt that would be unproductive. Curious why you reached out to me in particular, though?

I don't solidly townread HEM like you do, but I think at this point I know well enough the reasons you townread people are often strange to me; we don't really think alike. I do like how 199 sounds, that is not a hard post to fake as scum but in the moment it would be hard to commit to such a gambit, because if the bluff gets called it's game-losing. Still mulling over how I feel about his posts on page 9, I can see the attack on murdercat coming from either alignment.

[catboi]

So whats up catboi how do we know prism is town

I just

feel

it. Every time I try to explain it prism tells me it's a bad reason to be townreading them and that I'm scum for doing it and I yell at them they're scum for reading me wrong and I cry into my pillow for hours, and then in the end we both end up flipping town anyway. (´；ω；`)

So now I'm not even going to try to explain. Haven't actually encountered Prism-scum firsthand in a forum game, but have done some research, and I do not feel this is it.

[catboi]

murdercat/catboi while we're doing hero solves

the cat team

I don't think we'd be so blatantly coming up with similar reads as a team, and in fact a trivial thought experiment of how to play this setup as scum made me realize that doing so would be actively atrocious strategy. Am questioning whether we're thinking similarly or he's just shadowing me, though.

[catboi]

I think Infinity is well-aware that she's likely to be caught out by the wider table. The "Why not?" approach is fine if you're pursuing one path but allowing for both, and Infinity is not.

Dannflor's last post seems +town but maybe I'm really starting to lower the bar if I think Dann/Murder/S_S are town just for giving mostly basic reads.

Not to give too much credit but the reversal from 232 to 237 feels genuine.

[catboi]

Dann got the sweaty scum in rvs aura

I think I will claim my strategy. I want to be alive late into the game and won't be trusting until endgame

Towny

Prism/S_S town, this game is going to be over in like a day

like this is what I'm talking about, it feels like fake bravado

I think purely on tone this feels towny because oof they are excited to be sorting and giving a lot of takes but

it actually just feels more like catboi is making it up. mostly because most of his posts are *giving* takes in reaction to things but he's not actually interacting with any of things to plumb deeper. It's just observing and then spitting out the opinion

First move into the game I'm going to be firing surface-level takes, depth and nuance comes later as there's more to work off of, that stuff's all gut.

[catboi]

Curious why you reached out to me in particular, though?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86615

I believe you have some experience with HEM as scum, and I recall you spotting him out quite easily.

You don't have to go indepth as to the specific behaviors if you want to keep a competitive advantage, but I would like to know the name of the games you looked at. I think this is a fair compromise given that I have exactly two scumgames since 2018 and a few posts from scattered ones where I had to replace out early.

To be perfectly blunt: I'm not sure I could have confidently caught out HEM on his own there, and despite the strength of my read I wasn't confident enough I could present a convincing case for it. The primary strength of the read was based on his associations with his newbie partner who was obvscum; I think trying to compare play between the two games wouldn't be useful given the experience level is wildly different - you don't play scum around newbies the same way you play around experienced players, I think that's true for most players even if they're not fully conscious of it. The setup is atypical as well, traditional tells aren't necessarily going to work because we're not voting for eliminations.

[catboi]

Hmm, when did I go from being in your never trust group to being enough of a townread to want me to pair off?

We are up a pair and I think you and SS will always live in the could be scum range, so it would be good to solve both of you at once. It's not the mostly likely to be town pair, but it would polarize the rest of the players left over.

That's...kind of an odd approach to take, and why us two? I feel like something_smart is decently readable, given enough time. Why not aim for the more confident townreads early? That feels like a basic risk mitigation strategy.

catboi could literally make every post thus far as scum on 72 hours of no sleep and juggling 3 8 lb bowling balls oh fuck no

b4 u start crying in ur room about me tunneling u btw cat i'm not saying that every post you made is scummy or something (only the ones about me!!!) but 100% you doing basic reactions/reads is NAI

Compliment accepted, friendo~

[catboi]

If this is HEM/catboi I am going to be so salty because catboi is saying all the right things to make me internally doubledown on HEM town

I wish I were that clever.

Anyway, have to leave for a bit so can't catch up in full, don't have too much fun without me ♡ฅ(ᐤˊ꒳ฅˋᐤ♪)

[catboi]

this is lazy

I'm not calling you scum but this is a bad way to play mafia I think

In this particular setup I am pretty confident that it makes sense to have questionable but leantown players pair up at some point. I'm not sure whether it makes more sense to do it early or later, but I do think it's advantageous.

Purely theory based digression, but I actually quite disagree with this - I think day 2 is a critical inflection point after an initial successful t/t pair - whichever side "wins" today gets one step away from fulfilling its win condition. A day 3 where town is winning places a unique set of pressures on scum - they can no longer afford to play passively, if they don't get paired they lose. You can see scum in the last run of this were forced into making desperation plays on day 3 that didn't pay off. I think that even in the event that town misses once in that scenario, their chances of winning are still good because you can analyze who was trying to advance a scum win condition. Meanwhile, in the other scenario, town has to play minesweeper, slowly clearing players one by one, and one impulsive move by anyone can lose the game. In that situation scum sits back and waits for town to misplay, and it becomes harder to tell people apart. So getting today right is fairly important.

[catboi]

I also vehemently disagreed with that. With this theory in mind, who would you like to see paired, and who do you need more from?

At this point in time I want more from everyone, even in the event we're wrong on a pair I want something to be able to read off of. So I'm not going to be talking about pairs much just yet.

Feel free to call this a cop-out answer~

[catboi]

re: infinity, the one thing she's said that's put me on edge was this:

Murder if you want we could abandon the whole endgaming thing and trust fall right now

I'm half joking

which has a bit of the feeling of "aha ha, just kidding...unless?" of possibly trying to provoke a yolo-leave. Other than that, I don't have a

problem

with her although I feel as the game has progressed she hasn't been as towny as others. But then I remember her getting stitched up for not hitting an arbitrary bar of towniness in Guardians and my team taking advantage of that, so I'm...cautious? I don't have a good conclusion to write here. Not a strong townread, I guess is what I should be saying.

[catboi]

I have actually liked Dannflor's posting quite a bit since the early game. I will kick myself if it's a case of him simply settling in after an awkward start and I let go of it, but he actually feels good.

inutile's entrance to the game is fine. The questions she's asking seem pointed enough. I do not have much else to say right now.


Initial euphoric rush of "oh this is going to be easy" has worn off, but in a way that's a good thing.

[catboi]

I swear I wrote that post before yours came up in the p-edit.

[catboi]

I do have an idea of the next step I want this game to take, but am content to let things simmer a bit first. Think this'll be all from me tonight.

[catboi]

Eh. I don't actually know offhand that I've done anything I would consider a strong towntell for me.

[catboi]

To me the way catboi is approaching prism is a bit disappointed or wanting prism to townread him or something, but prism is confident catboi is still within his scumrange. Past games seem to have an effect on the way catboi is approaching that, but still, I think a townier approach might be "you'll get there eventually". Still possible for town!catboi to feel this way but yeah.

Maybe a better question would've been "do you think prism should be townreading you" but I think catboi answered that too

Explaining the full context of me/prism would require going into more backstory than I want to divulge right now. But suffice to say the ongoing dance of them immediately suspecting me and disliking outing a snap townread of them is very much in character and expected behavior from them. I don't really think Prism should be townreading me, but the immediate scumread is slightly annoying, but mostly amusing. In a regular game I might be more frustrated with it, here the game is playable regardless, I don't have to spend all day arguing with them. It's amusing to me because if I am right prism will have once again jumped to the wrong conclusion about my alignment, and that is very funny to me~~

[catboi]

Explaining the full context of me/prism would require going into more backstory than I want to divulge right now. But suffice to say the ongoing dance of them immediately suspecting me and disliking outing a snap townread of them is very much in character and expected behavior from them. I don't really think Prism should be townreading me, but the immediate scumread is slightly annoying, but mostly amusing. In a regular game I might be more frustrated with it, here the game is playable regardless, I don't have to spend all day arguing with them. It's amusing to me because if I am right prism will have once again jumped to the wrong conclusion about my alignment, and that is very funny to me~~

I'm not apologizing if you're town. That read on me was absolute ass. I would buy a gut townlean pending more info/flips but being willing to trust me and not being explicit with why you got cold feet or having your read progress at all was also ass. Maybe by page 20 there's enough for a solid townread but I never believe you locktown me for

these

six or so pages and if you did you're lucky I didn't just immediately steamroll you for it.

Shrug, I have more or less remained confident, you big

tsundere

. The only actual reason I delayed clearing you was that if I am mistaken and you are scum, I wanted something to be able to read off of. (although I doubt you bother immediately removing me from the game if scum). This should suffice as an answer to HEM as well.

[catboi]

I actually lack for strong scumreads at this point, the early call on something_smart has dimished for me while others have gotten better in my eyes. I harbor doubts on HEM still but part of that is my innate tendency to reflexively OMGUS. I want to clear Prism so they can take their hero trust on HEM, if they're right everything is happy and we have a good shot at winning, if either is scum I presumably end up playing minseweeper with everyone else. Those are acceptable outcomes.

Would anyone scream out in terror if I were to propose the trust now? o(=´∇｀=)o

[catboi]

the early call on something_smart has dimished for me

The early townread, to be clear. realized this doesn't really mesh with the first part of that post.

[catboi]

Still don't see the benefit to proposing as a widely scumread player, scum!prism won't accept

I think prism is town and want to clear them (or "clear" them) to allow them to operate freely.

catboi and prism being the scumteam is my anti-hero solve

Seems like we'd be executing a losing strategy in that case!

[catboi]

Seems like we'd be executing a losing strategy in that case!

why? bussing is how you play this game: you dont have to trust each other (and you can't!), at least one of you would be trusted early (because of how it polarizes the game), and when they exit, it makes you look good.

I've been fantasizing about a scum game here since modding it.

Well, in this case, with me having strongly professed a townread on Prism, and agreeing to trust first only for Prism to not trust me and flip as confirmed scum would mean I'm almost certainly getting stranded.

I haven't thought a ton about what my strategy would be (this is the one setup where I absolutely did not want to draw scum), but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't look like what I'm doing with Prism.

[catboi]

i see catboi hasn't popped the question yet

catboi is there any reason to doubt prism's alignment?

There's always reason to doubt. I haven't actually been exposed to scum-prism in a forum mafia game. It's possible my confidence is entirely ill-founded! (Prism certainly thinks so). But at this point I only held off to make sure no one else was going to raise some objection to this.

is there any reason to doubt prism's alignment?

do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?

My thinking was actually similar to this, in that I wouldn't expect Prism to be so unrestrained with their emotions to give a negative reaction to what was objectively a pro-town outcome, albeit one resulting from a very anti-town play.

[catboi]

I think this is the right time to do this, I don't want to drag the timer out

too

long:

I trust Prism

Not that I expect you to, but don't accept this if you're town.

[catboi]

But at this point I only held off to make sure no one else was going to raise some objection to this.

why would anyone's objection matter if you're confident with your own reads?

I'd want to hear people out and work collaboratively? Past runs have been lost by hero-trusts in defiance of the wishes of others.

[catboi]

Not that I expect you to, but don't accept this if you're town.

CATBOI IS SCUM HAHAHAHAHA

[catboi]

I was already pretty explicit with just wanting this to be a "clear" rather than something that leads to a trust, don't see why you have a problem with that line?

[catboi]

Why not?

I triple posted, you're going to have to be specific what this was in response to.

[catboi]

why would you not want Prism to trust you?

Because even if we were townreading each other, me/prism is boring, stale, old hat, we know each other too well. I'm okay with clearing them, but I want them to branch out, take risks, perhaps make a new friend. I also strongly benefit if they are town and are correct in their townread, then I get to stay in the game and help influence what is hopefully the game-winning pair. Even if we are both town, I don't want to be stripped of my agency in this game.

[catboi]

I am actually distinctly regretting the possibility that I might be encouraging Prism to pair with you.


But then I think about it for a second and I don't see why you bother to slam me like that if you're a short time away from walking out the door and flipping red. So hrm.

[catboi]

Okay fine you're town for the gif

[catboi]

Untrust Prism

rules don't specify a particular syntax for doing so but I assume this will do.

Fine, unsurprised with the outcome. Go ahhead and play the hero, friend. Just remember I was right on you. (=ↀωↀ=)✧

[catboi]

I am strongly considering accepting Infinity later in the day, mostly when I get home and can really focus again

That would be preferable for me to s_s at this point, but I would actually be fine with you trusting HEM now despite his protestations because I feel like he keeps getting townier, if you would like to print a joint

DO NOT TRUST

on me as your last will, I wouldn't even mind.

[catboi]

how about we get catboi to trust someone else?

how about that catboi? are you townreading anyone else? let's get you a date.

there's a lot of incentive for you to do this if town. and negative incentive for you to do this as scum.

I'm struggling to understand what the utility of me making further trusts would be as town?

[catboi]

you're universally scumread right now. if you're town, you're actively harming our PoE because you are pegged as scum. and so if you can use being universally scumread to confirm your townreads, then it would be pro-town and awesome.

I don't need to exit the game to win (and "universally scumread" is an exaggeration). I think clearing people is good but trying to bite off too much too soon would be a mistake, if I let the pressure on me lead to a hasty decision it's likely I get clapped by scum for it and then my play will have been entirely antitown.

it seems that you trust me so much that you're willing to allow Prism and I to be paired — how's about you trust me?

Why do you want me in particular to put a trust on you?

[catboi]

Why do you want me in particular to put a trust on you?

that's a question you need to answer. you're willing to pair Prism and I away. that means you trust me. why?

I'm not strongly confident on that read but was willing to bank on the strength of Prism's read, partly because I know Prism perceives things in games differently than I do and often sees things I do not, which makes me willing to gamble a little. Right now though, I'm trying to parse the motivations of what you're doing here.

[catboi]

I'm not strongly confident on that read but was willing to bank on the strength of Prism's read, partly because I know Prism perceives things in games differently than I do and often sees things I do not, which makes me willing to gamble a little. Right now though, I'm trying to parse the motivations of what you're doing here.

i thought i was getting townier and townier? never had a real read on me, did ya?

doesn't matter. you still trust the read enough to let Prism pair off with me. it shouldn't be that much of a big deal for you to trust me.

I'm struggling to see the importance of your insistence on this. I have no idea what you gain from this play as town. Conversely, I understand very well the benefits of trying to play off frustration and bait me into placing a trust on you if you are scum. That's inflaming my paranoia at this point in time and is why I keep questioning you, because I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

You are clearly trying to goad me into placing a trust on you, and while I can see town making that sort of play (because I feel like I wouldn't be above doing so, were the circumstances different), I don't respond well to that sort of provocation and am absolutely never going to oblige you when you're acting this way.

[catboi]

S_S and prism should pair today

What makes you have continued confidence on something_smart?

well what about it do you not understand

Why do you want it? What does me trusting you achieve?

[catboi]

I thought HEM suggesting he not paired with prism was a town motivated statement because I wouldn't expect him to refuse what is likely his best shot at getting out of the game if he is scum, and I don't see why he'd attack me rather than taking a more safe, quiet route. However, him continuing to try and bait me here is stoking my paranoia. I now explicitly am not okay with him being trusted, not that I expect Prism to care at all.

[catboi]

I literally was attempting to discourage pairing with something_smart because I felt he'd faded into the background, don't try to pin the blame on me.

[catboi]

Actually, if I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence:

EAT SHIT PRISM, I HAD YOU RIGHT ALL ALONG AND YOU HAD ME WRONG, I WARNED YOU NOT TO AND YOU PAIRED WITH SCUM ANYWAY

凸ಠ益ಠ)凸

[catboi]

Actually, if I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence:

EAT SHIT PRISM, I HAD YOU RIGHT ALL ALONG AND YOU HAD ME WRONG, I WARNED YOU NOT TO AND YOU PAIRED WITH SCUM ANYWAY

凸ಠ益ಠ)凸

Where have you tried to discourage it

Here:

I actually lack for strong scumreads at this point, the early call on something_smart has dimished for me while others have gotten better in my eyes. I harbor doubts on HEM still but part of that is my innate tendency to reflexively OMGUS. I want to clear Prism so they can take their hero trust on HEM, if they're right everything is happy and we have a good shot at winning, if either is scum I presumably end up playing minseweeper with everyone else. Those are acceptable outcomes.

Would anyone scream out in terror if I were to propose the trust now? o(=´∇｀=)o

I am strongly considering accepting Infinity later in the day, mostly when I get home and can really focus again

That would be preferable for me to s_s at this point, but I would actually be fine with you trusting HEM now despite his protestations because I feel like he keeps getting townier, if you would like to print a joint

DO NOT TRUST

on me as your last will, I wouldn't even mind.

S_S and prism should pair today

What makes you have continued confidence on something_smart?

well what about it do you not understand

Why do you want it? What does me trusting you achieve?

You can claim I did not protest loudly or strongly enough, but I had no actual reason to believe a pairing was imminent. I was explicit enough that he was no longer a top townread for me.

[catboi]

I need to catch up fully to actually survey the damage and see what went down.

[catboi]

I'm an inpatient lad and there's actually no point in slowrolling here. Best of luck partner.

Pretty sure catboi just went out so he gets to mald when he gets back

The upshot of you doing this now is it's no longer possible for you to hard throw the game. Suck me from the back, nerd.

[catboi]

Where's my trust catboi

You blew that chance already, I'm unlikely to give it to you, at least right now. If you're scum it's likely that someone will hand you the game anyway, you don't need to bully me into doing it.

[catboi]

HEM your town equity is way up in my mind now

Can you explain why? I don't see how it follows from S_S scum.

[catboi]

Also Dann I'm more than a bit curious why you townlean me, given that you were trepidatious to townread me last time we played and you still did it and it ended up being a mistake.

I've been deliberately trying to lay "paranoia" as having a strong effect on my reads aside, because it annoys me to no end when applied to me

This makes a lot of sense.

I kinda take the opposite approach, where I frame "paranoia" as "I actually just can't read this person as well as I would like". But I'm not exactly the model of self-confidence.

Dann/S_S possible, this is their only interaction

Not true, actually, there was this sequence as well:

sorry for absence, I keep reading and just feel like I have nothing to worthwhile to add, maybe because I'm a somewhat consensus scum read

I do vibe with catboi's inability to get any strong scum reads. I'm sort of failing to get strong town reads as well though. I feel like i've come close and then something comes along to undermine them immediately everytime, which is a bit demotivating

I will be back tomorrow for a full reread

See, I like this setup, because I never have strong scumreads, and I don't have to be annoyed about that this time

it's just awkward because I don't even know who I would trust at this point

I'm not particularly sure it's meaningful in any way, but it exists and stuck in my mind. My gut wants to say +town on pure feeling but I don't think it'd actually be difficult to do at all.

[catboi]

pretty clearly the blame falls on me, but my desire to hero solve is quite high

Like I said before, the game is now minesweeper: the thing to do is identify town one by one by initiating trusts. If you want to be the hero you're welcome to initiate, but I'm also very motivated to show Prism up here. Correctly identifying the exact remaining final mafia might be a tall order, but I think I can get two, maybe three right. Hopefully.

I've liked your play and approach, although of course the read on something_smart troubles me, and asking for infinity's trust in 659 is kind of odd, to hero solve here you don't really need anyone's trust. I don't know that you'd try to be so bold as to attempt to towncase your partner like that, but it makes me hesitant.

[catboi]

Also Dann I'm more than a bit curious why you townlean me, given that you were trepidatious to townread me last time we played and you still did it and it ended up being a mistake.

Thinking emoji

[catboi]

Can you explain why? I don't see how it follows from S_S scum.

Prism is confirmed town and there's 1 less scum in the game, plus I was shown to be wrong about the gamestate

But why does that lead to the conclusion of HEM's town equity being way up? I don't follow what the logic is supposed to be here.

to hero solve here you don't really need anyone's trust

The opportunity for a hero solve is gone, I took my 1 shot per game

Not true, someone should be the person trusting people and clearing them here. If you want to be the one taking charge, you trust your townreads and clear them. But I would advise holding off on that.

[catboi]

I think I already have in mind the person I most want to clear, but need to give them a reread first.

[catboi]

But why does that lead to the conclusion of HEM's town equity being way up? I don't follow what the logic is supposed to be here.

Prism had a strong town read on HEM which is now confirmed, my reads were proven to be not great so I'm doubting them, and 1 less scum means it can't be both Dann and HEM so the likelihood that it's HEM must go down as a result.

I mean, Prism literally chose incorrectly for their trust, so I'm not sure why their read is somehow less fallible? If you think your team guess is less likely, I guess that makes sense but I still don't see why HEM then suddenly becomes top town for you off of that.

I like catboi as town

Whuh?

[catboi]

Oh hey monkey is clear, I guess I can eat shit after all on that

[catboi]

I have suspicions that Infinity is last scum and I think that cat/monkey/me/shiki should be the path

Er...why?

[catboi]

I untrust inutile

sike

I don't think you can do this

You can rescind trusts, I'm fairly sure since my trust to prism didn't show up in the final VC for day 2.

[catboi]

I had actually been feeling fairly good about Infinity and she was the one I had in mind for clearing but I wanted to revisit the ISO first.

[catboi]

Oh hey monkey is clear, I guess I can eat shit after all on that

yes eat shit

eat shit, catboi

[catboi]

anyone who trusts is scum claiming. i get to handpick my masonry now. this game is now about me.

initiating a trust would be -EV for scum regardless, but if you want to be captain I'll respect that.

[catboi]

everyone say at least one thing they like about me

avatar is swag

[catboi]

Like infinity still from ISO, there's some movement to her reads, thoughts evolve in time with the thread, reasoning all feels believable. I know that's a vague shitty explanation but whatever, I'm not delivering a fullblown towncase here. Don't know why she scumreads me but that's okay! I feel like out of everyone remaining I'd be most confident in clearing her.

[catboi]

I ISOed her and she's

fine

but I wouldn't feel confident on a trust yet.

[catboi]

hey catboi, if i trust you, will you be scum?

Nope (this is probably way too late for the reaction test I assume it was supposed to be, on me for not thread camping hard enough)

[catboi]

do you think catboi is scum, shiki?

only if going for the like 'no outs' thing

which i mean does happen, but not all that often

actually this:

I had actually been feeling fairly good about Infinity and she was the one I had in mind for clearing but I wanted to revisit the ISO first.

is kinda hmm

Why's that?

[catboi]

Why's that?

potentially negates the 'no outs' aspect

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

[catboi]

i think catboi is town because he was trying to call out S_S the same way as I was when it was completely unnecessary to do so, and would hurt their strategy.

I think some form of cursory distancing is necessary in a setup like this, though I'm not sure I'd potentially be trying to kibosh my own partner's potential escape, regardless of how distrusted I was. That just feels anti-wincon.

Of course, if you do it, it'll be be even more egg on Prism's face, which is fun~

[catboi]

Why's that?

potentially negates the 'no outs' aspect

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

like it felt like you could only be mafia if you were going for the no outs angle, like 'i can't be mafia, look at the position i'm willingly putting myself in, leave me behind,' et cetera

but the above seems counter to that

like either because town
or saw an opportunity

I feel like my responses to HEM would indicate more of that, my intention of possibly clearing Infinity was because I felt she was town, not because of any anticipated reciprocity.

[catboi]

I feel like my responses to HEM would indicate more of that, my intention of possibly clearing Infinity was because I felt she was town, not because of any anticipated reciprocity.

hm. these just run into eachother to me. like clear infinity to be paired with either to get out of no outs situation?

Eh, I don't know. I don't think me clearing infinity should be taken as any sort of a towntell, certainly. But that's just me trying to solve.

[catboi]

Had a somewhat awkward post with s_s that I quoted earlier, has felt a bit disconnected/removed lately. I don't know, I don't feel that strongly about it. There was that bit earlier though where I wrote a post saying "hmm, maybe dann isn't so bad" and as I went to post it I saw he made a post at that same time saying he wasn't scumreading me as much, felt like we were having a ~moment~ but I also would not bet on him based on that. I love fencesitting.

[catboi]

I could put the trust on Infinity if the goal is clearing her?

[catboi]

I don't really think Murdercat is scum which means that proposed town block of HEM loses us the game

So who do you think the last scum is in, then?

[catboi]

Not gonna lie, that trust makes me nervous

[catboi]

I'm annoyed. Some of that is on me for falling to passivity, but it's still frustrating to twice in a row go "hmm this person hasn't really towntold" and have them get chosen anyway. I don't really want to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of prism/infinity because everyone made some mistakes, it's not like anyone was perfect, but it's still a frustrating outcome. I feel like a more deliberate, democratic process would have worked better here. Like, I feel like this should have been winnable. (⌯˃̶᷄ ﹏ ˂̶᷄⌯)


Nice playerlist, though. Without the usual pressure of someone being kicked out as a pariah the game was very pleasant even with prism's tunnel on me, because I could just laugh it off and not worry about it at all.

[catboi]

I wouldn't have trusted shiki if I thought we could reasonably win a game with her as scum.

That's kind of a tautology

[catboi]

Idk maybe I just didn't understand the gamestate well enough

I think that's it, yeah. But that could have been communicated more clearly, so like I said, not going to rip on you, everyone made mistakes, as always in a loss.

[catboi]

I really didn't think shiki was trying to get paired, but I overthought it

S'fine. Mistakes happen. No worries. (*´＾(^｀*∬o

[catboi]

I'd rather this be a fun setup where people try to be heros than play it optimally

I find working together with people fun. I don't think the mentality where optimal play and enjoyment are in opposition to one another is correct.

[catboi]

This should have been a cautionary tale but it wasn't, and we fell victim to similar. inutile gave pretty solid content and there wasn't as much to glean from the S_S flip as we would have liked. Very well played from the scumteam-I think this is Trust Fall's first scumwin?

Nope, only town win was the run before this one, scum are 3/4 although one of those was the heavily scumsided 9p version.

I felt there was a lot of history and meta experiences between players in this plist that I really struggled to read the interactions of, and I let it demotivate me. I wish I could try again and give it more energy. I was also pretty disappointed that two of the players I knew / have had the most experience with before left immediately

Sorry about that, I tried to curtail that sort of talk precisely because I felt it would be unproductive but I guess I didn't do enough. I feel like you kind of got shut out from my early read and that just kind of stuck and people were unwilling to give you space. I wish I'd pulled the trigger on trusting you when I had a moment of "hey, he might actually be town", but as with the rest of the game I was overcautious. Difficulty of this setup, I guess, with my personality I never want to act recklessly.