Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Farren

[Dannflor]

hello! how are you finding purgatory so far?

any particular reason you chose to vote nsg?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: nsg

[Dannflor]

hm scum

[Dannflor]

flow trap vote nsg and I'll give you a cookie

[Dannflor]

chocolate chip!

[Dannflor]

VOTE: flowtrap

[Dannflor]

t3 probably town?

elaborate?

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

[Dannflor]

I was also immediately pinged by #26. It is a

very

odd comment to make two pages into the game when there are only two ostensibly RVS votes on northsidegal. This is compounded by the fact that Farren explained his vote clearly only a few votes before.

so, it seems like flow trap is both just posting an observation to post without actually thinking about the game on a deeper level. I also thought a townie entering the game here would interact more with the people already posting, or even join the already built wagon.

flow trap did neither so my observation in #13 was less tongue-in-cheek than might have been first interpreted. I didn't really scum read flow trap off of that, but that was my first reaction of, "huh that's a bit awkward." but then I tried to coax flow trap to join the wagon on NSG and they just refused for seemingly no real reason. I felt like he was using the cutesy-memey responses to avoid having to take responsibility for

actively

avoiding the wagon.

like i tend to think townies, especially in RVS, are on average more likely to swing their vote around and build wagons even for n/a reasons. I don't know flow trap and I'm probably not going to meta them anytime soon but I am still lacking a sense of why their approach to voting nsg was like oil on water

I don't think that overall really says anything about northsidegal's alignment, more just that flow trap seemed to be deliberately avoiding taking a bold stance (like being the third vote on a wagon could be seen as)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: t3
Hey can we not do the "spam for pagetop" thing cuz pagetop votecounts arent even that important and it is annoying

have you read / do you have other thoughts on the game

[Dannflor]

it would've been e-2 yes

[Dannflor]

I think flow needs more content in terms of their reaction before i feel any level of confidence but im feeling their scum meta in their vibes.
VOTE: flow
E-2

what specifically about their scum meta are you feeling?

[Dannflor]

this game is giving me a headache

[Dannflor]

I can maybe see T3 town now

[Dannflor]

iche troje has made like 3 posts that could be conceived as "town slips"

[Dannflor]

iche troje has made like 3 posts that could be conceived as "town slips"

What else, besides the number of scum?

I exaggerated a lil

but needless to say Ich Troje's entrance plus #139 had me paused

just because in both instances I would expect scum to be more aware / know their setup / have checked out the scum PT before posting in the game / etc.

they're not technically town slips but combined with the actual "town slip" it just felt like an overwhelming amount of "derp lol whats this game"

I was feeling it was performative but it looks like ich troje has basically admitted they did it to get town read which, idk. it's all just nai in the end I *think* because they seem to be a performative personality in general

what were you waiting on me for? rather, how exactly were you planning on probing ich troje "deeper?"

[Dannflor]

i gotta get to work and i've only read 5.5 pages, so im refraining from posting anything meaningful ("meaningful") until i catch up
just know i'm around and i'll be back in a few hours

random thought: but I think overall I tend to make these types of posts more as scum, I think i feel more guilt for not producing content and like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

this is purely anecdotal and only relevant to me but I would be interested in some kind of data on these types of posts

[Dannflor]

redtea can you elaborate on what specifically makes flow trap feel like a "false flag" to you?

[Dannflor]

Have people seen T3 play like this btw?

what exactly do you mean "like this"

i have a very loose experience / read a couple games of his and personally i feel he is a bit hard to pin down and can feel "unnatural" as both alignments

i dont know to what you are referring to this game? you keep mentioning his spam but that seemed to be a technological misfunction sooo

[Dannflor]

ponder the answers

I think if you're town sharing this part of the process more would be helpful in reading you

[Dannflor]

also interested to hear dann's opinion on esooa's ISO up until this point.

I don't particularly like the town read on me - it feels... idk if im just like particularly sensitive to town reads on me but I always get the impression that people will glance over a wall post of mine and be like "oh I should town read them"

and I feel like that's usually more likely to come from scum. like she didn't really engage with any part of my post or explain *what* about my explanation was good? #232 feels kinda tacked on to fill in for the original read's weakness, although to be fair I have come to a town read for similar reasons as asking the same questions

the rest of the iso ranges from fiiiine to good I think. I feel like I'm missing where exactly the reads are coming from in some instances, which is why I'm asking about the t3 one specifically, the Farren push reads mostly genuine though

although because of that right now I feel like they could make a good flow trap partner so my hero solve right now is gonna be esooa + flowtrap + someone else random I don't know yet. but that's me at 2:30 am talking

why did you ask me specifically and why about this slot specifically? also if i may return the favor, thoughts on redtea?

[Dannflor]

ponder the answers

I think if you're town sharing this part of the process more would be helpful in reading you

btw Farren I realize you have done this / are doing this

but I think doing it unprompted as well would help

you strike me as a something_Smart type player where you aren't necessarily going to come to any firm conclusions anytime soon but seeing every step of the process to even your mildest conclusions is vital for reading that type of play, at least for me

[Dannflor]

actually what do you mean I keep mentioning his "spam post"

I skimmed the game once at work and then came home to fully read and I think I hallucinated more mentions than there were

from a very loose experience with T3 I don't feel this is super out of his range as either alignment

[Dannflor]

VOTE: red tea

why did you drop farren here

[Dannflor]

dannfloor/nsg

this pairing is interesting

ive been nursing a paranoia nsg read since basically her entrance but i think that paranoia was bound to come up at some point this game so im not really giving it any credence until nsg gets a chance to play more

what exactly pinged you about either of our posts?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: redtea

[Dannflor]

I had some lingering suspicions / pings on Dannflor earlier. Nothing coherent. I'm feeling better about him now; getting a sense of what he looks for is one of those things that's +Town

can you elaborate on what specifically?

I have not been the most transparent this game about what I'm looking for / my reads so im curious how exactly are you approaching my slot

[Dannflor]

I think there is a possibility you are scum reading a play style?

not that I town read Farren necessarily but I don't think much of what I've seen from then is strictly AI

[Dannflor]

i wanted to just watch them interact with others rather than give them an easy out in omgusing me because i can tend to stumble my words sometimes.

ok sorry back to this why would omgusing you be the easy way out, especially as neither of us have expressed a scum read on you thus far

like im a little confused what exactly you got out of seeing our interactions with others

[Dannflor]

btw I think I'm town reading both flow trap and esooa now

all questions can go to my manager

[Dannflor]

I'm wary of the secondary tier T3 scum reads because I feel like if town - he's going to be a slot scum are always going to want to have in their back pocket as a miselim

like the way people are sort of dancing around his slot is feeling... performative? at the very least it makes me think Enchant/T3 are less likely to be aligned - the "meta I can't talk about" is a non-case but also taken seriously enough that it reads genuine. could easily be scum picking a random push on an easy townie but i lean towards that not being an lolrandom bus

[Dannflor]

btw I think I'm town reading both flow trap and esooa now

all questions can go to my manager

ask them why you're town reading me

actually both of us

honestly I feel like you don't randomly hop on a new wagon, while you still had traction on the old wagon, admit you are still scum reading your old wagon, and then claim your only reason for starting the new wagon is "I felt like it," as scum

it just feels very comfortable, which honestly weren't the vibes I was getting from you at the start of the game! so maybe I'm a clown and you've settled in but that sequence of events is just like

idk I would have expected you to make up a more "legitimate" sounding reason at some point, or shown a read progression, but you just openly admitted you did not

I will elaborate on flow trap in probably a bigger reads list a little later in the day, I'm waiting for nsg to post a little more and specifically curious if her read on flowtrap has changed at all

[Dannflor]

I like this post

why?

[Dannflor]

I am fairly confident of Esooa being scum here - as much as it is a meme that I've pushed on her as town before, my accuracy on her has increased over time.

can you explain this read with some specifics? how much of it is based off of a meta experience with esooa

[Dannflor]

FWIW Dannfloor, I think if anything you would be the likliest town atp based on the complexity of what you have been putting out, but just pocketed.

I DO see a world where I'm just being a paranoid idiot and it's just straight up something like T3/Farren/Enchant

my reads are very much not set in stone rnow.

I'm kind of waiting on a lot of stuff™ at the moment but I'm going to try to solidify some of my thoughts tonight because the deadline is shorter than i realized

right now I'm most concerned about falling into the trap of looking for the hardest possible scums, which is something that has been affecting my games negatively recently. which means i have to work through paranoia regarding slots like you and NSG without confbiasing or overthinking myself out of like what should be obvious scum

like it's a situation where i think you've both been at the very least surface level towny thus far but you're also among the slots i'm most concerned I won't be able to read correctly if I'm not extremely careful - I'm trying not to let that veer into an automatic fear-based scum read if that makes sense

[Dannflor]

I am fairly confident of Esooa being scum here - as much as it is a meme that I've pushed on her as town before, my accuracy on her has increased over time.

can you explain this read with some specifics? how much of it is based off of a meta experience with esooa

Very much so, and mostly based on our most recent game together. https://forum.throneoflies.com/t/ninjas ... joke/88013

thanks, at work but will take a look at this later

how much experience do the two of you have together est.?

[Dannflor]

I think you might have misinterpreted my play wrt yourself nsg, which makes sense i have been deliberately opaque

but I'm not town reading you, I don't really have a fully formed read on you yet

[Dannflor]

uhhh i have thoughts on the last page but it'll have to wait until after work

flow trap why does it seem like you don't have an opinion on this nsg / esooa back and forth

[Dannflor]

nsg is/was your scum read on me based primarily on how it seemed like I was treating your slot?

or are there other concerns

[Dannflor]

would it bother you if i refrained from elaborating on those for a while?

no

[Dannflor]

lol

[Dannflor]

honestly I feel like you don't randomly hop on a new wagon, while you still had traction on the old wagon, admit you are still scum reading your old wagon, and then claim your only reason for starting the new wagon is "I felt like it," as scum

I don't think there was much traction left in that wagon.

i mean there were 3 votes on you

it seemed to lose traction because esooa moved their vote

[Dannflor]

nsg are you specifically trying anything different this game from how you normally play? if you consider yourself to have a "normal" style or method of playing to begin with

[Dannflor]

VOTE: nsg

[Dannflor]

by the way dann, i'm curious. i'm decently confident that you're relatively similar to me when it comes to following a flow of making a prediction, asking a question, and updating based on the response. so what was your prediction for this question, and how would you have updated either way i would have answered it?

Honestly? I expected you to say you were trying to model some facet of RC's play this game, or that you were trying to push or question more aggressively, or something along those lines.

I feel like there's a noticeable shift in the way you're approaching slots that I'm not used to seeing from you, (using Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM as my point of reference) and I asked because I think you are a player who would reasonably try to evolve or change or adapt their gameplay for a variety of reasons.

My model of you as a player is similar to what you've described as first making a prediction, then asking a question, and then updating whether privately or publicly. I also think you are like me in that you tend to spend a good amount of time observing before completely outing everything in your head, before later in the game becoming more completely transparent as you try to put all the information you've collected together. But specifically I also don't think of you as someone who likes to "lead the witness" or ask questions you know you're not going to get a revealing answer from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're someone who like builds a case against someone by like putting pressure on someone until they crack - you ask questions yes but you usually also try to give enough space to let that person comfortably show that they are town

This is why I asked you that question because I don't feel you've been playing the way I expect you to, most egregiously in your back and forth with esooa

specifically posts #386 and #388 felt very... out of character for my conception of how you would react in this situation. both questions appear to me to not really be questions? Like I don't believe you actually thought you were going to get a informative answer out of esooa either way here. You're framing an observation or essentially a "case" as a question for the person you're accusing, and not really in a way that allows for esooa to respond in any other way than basically "uh no" which is indeed how she reacted. you say you don't normally like to "lead the witness" and it feels like that is exactly what you're doing.

like did you actually get anything out of asking those questions? you disappeared from the conversation after you asked them. it feels more like a "gotcha" than you were genuinely interested in figuring out if there was a townie motivation for esooa's read there.

would you agree, that if town, esooa probably isn't going to respond to #388 with anything other than a variation of "uh no?" would you expect scum!esooa to have a different answer?

I got the point you were making on that page but honestly? it feels more like you found something scummy you could push rather than you finding an inconsistency and wanting to genuinely question it.

[Dannflor]

to be honest, i'm not sure why i would be a "paranoia" read at all. really, i think that i've been townread far too easily and quickly this game – if anything, i would expect to either be basically null. of course, i don't think that my being townread quickly is necessarily the product of scum, but for you specifically i feel like i have memory of you by default being more hesitant to townread me in the most recent games we've played together. i feel like i'm not really seeing any of that attitude here, or i suppose i'm seeing less of it.

to go back to this, I did state I thought you've been at the very least surface-level towny but I haven't actually been town reading you yet this game

my usage of paranoia more referred to the fact that I was tin foiling scum!nsg theories off your entrance, for a brief time I had this convoluted thought that you saw my somewhat subtle reaction to flow trap's posts and then your entrance gunning for it was some sideways attempt to pocket me, but eh, it didn't really have any legs beyond the fact I didn't feel I had a good reason to really town read you yet

I do agree that any town reads on you at this point have been too easy and too quick. I think people that know you have an idea of your meta as an extremely strong town player and less memorable scum player and think they can hand out an easy read to you

but I will never not treat traditionally polarized players with extreme care because I think history has shown (like say with creature) that good town players are generally smart and good enough at the game to turn on their scum game when they need to

[Dannflor]

that is to say, the question is meant to demonstrate what i'm thinking, but also meant to be posed sort of to the playerlist at large rather than just to esooa.

I just don't remember you as being a very rhetorical player

as far as the addressing the actual point on Esooa, I am really not what you are seeing either - which may have contributed to how much I balked at your posting there

like I feel #385 is evidence of a deeper thought process running underneath esooa's earlier actions, not evidence that she is making up reads on the spot. it's consistent with her earlier actions and I think the fact that it is more developed is just a consequence of being prompted to share some of that underlying thought process.

could you elaborate on what you found scummy in their initial posting spree?

[Dannflor]

I'm also a little bit curious about your read on ich troje but that's of less importance right now

[Dannflor]

also also, random thought - if you're town, i wonder how much of your model of my play is informed by games where i replace in as opposed to ones played from the start. has consequences wrt expectations of behavior, given starting with a lot to analyze when replacing vs not having a ton when starting.

I'll think about this

the answer is probably quite a bit off the top of my head

[Dannflor]

meta meta meta meta meta

[Dannflor]

Esooa can you elaborate on your nsg read

[Dannflor]

t3 faking a scum slip for a joke?

hm never seen that one before

[Dannflor]

@enchant, do you have any thoughts on the game not related to T3?

@esooa sorry I'll get to that when I get to a computer

[Dannflor]

lol

[Dannflor]

has this ever worked for you ich troje

[Dannflor]

it was not and I think troje know that

[Dannflor]

anyways, i'm gonna reread the game and try to consolidate some reads in a few hours. bother me if i don't.

same

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

all people do in this game is LIE

[Dannflor]

if redtea flips scum they arent teammates with farren dann or nsg

afraid I'm not quite following

[Dannflor]

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

you been tempted to hammer too?

[Dannflor]

mmm it doesn't make sense to me as a scum PT post, and I'm not quite sure how you're seeing that? even ignoring the fact that it's a direct reply to me

[Dannflor]

what do you find strange about it? I admit I had trouble navigating the phrasing at first but I think it makes pretty clear sense to me now

[Dannflor]

I feel like it doesn't make sense as a notes PT post either tho

like it makes sense in thread in context but I don't understand why it would ever be posted in a notes thread

also how often do notes thread slips actually happen

is this even a useful line to go down idk

[Dannflor]

actually I guess it makes sense if I think about it

it's just not something for me to actually respond to

I am skeptical of thread slips in general but no that actually might be one

[Dannflor]

"Anyways, I think we should try to kill the werewolves. Feel free to bus me early because I'll bus you all. The miller claim is an inside joke but I can always say it's serious later. I might rolecop northsidegal because of the soft?"

[Dannflor]

t3 will get it

[Dannflor]

dann is giving tr's out like candy

I honestly don't feel like i have?

maybe I'm not stating enough of my read shifts in thread but I have like 2.5 people as town right now

[Dannflor]

oh I guess I did say I was town reading flow trap

I'm not any more

will elaborate soon if I get the energy to write my wall

[Dannflor]

dannflooooor

[Dannflor]

just ftr I'm pretty sure I've seen the occasional scum player use note PTs before? it's pretty rare and I can't remember any instances off the top of my head but i swear I've seen it at least once before

idk im not really interested in arguing it as an AI point but I would necessarily view it as clearing

although I think I am leaning redtea town anyways

[Dannflor]

would not*

[Dannflor]

VOTE: enchant

[Dannflor]

[esooa, ich troje]
[farren, red tea?]
[nsg, t3] - null/mixed
[flow trap]
[enchant]

this is about where I am after a reread

[Dannflor]

I think the crackpot paranoia theory about me/you/redtea is like, far more likely to come from a diseased town brain than a scum brain

I think generally the way they're thinking about the game state, while not necessarily accurate, points towards a town mindset

and i liked their progression on my slot

I have a dinner but I can expand a little later tonight. or honestly just next phase because I think they're my heaven candidate

[Dannflor]

ooh, i'd have to fight you on that one if you went for it.

you are my #1 heaven candidate if i can get enough confidence you're town if it helps

[Dannflor]

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

I've modded this setup once and played it once before

[Dannflor]

Excellent. Then how does someone you think has a "diseased town brain" and comes up with a "crackpot paranoia theory" makes a good Heaven candidate, given the existence of Judgment Day?

i think putting town in heaven is more important than putting accurate town in heaven

and judgement day if it happens is far enough away that ich troje has a lot of time to work on his reads

he also mostly town reads me? which is like the only important thing

[Dannflor]

like I know I'm doubting some of ich troje's reads but I'm also not the type of person to assume my reads are automatically better than anyone else's

[Dannflor]

I feel like I've explained myself as well I can

my ideal heaven would be nsg because I respect her reads the most but only if I can be very confident she's town

heavening scum makes this game very very hard

ich troje is currently one of my top town reads and that's really the only criteria i care about beyond them beyond town reading me

[Dannflor]

I had a dream RC replaced into this game and yelled at nsg and I for having terrible reads

[Dannflor]

nsg is generally known to have more WIM as town

she gets busy as either alignment though

speaking of, nsg I'd like to know where your reads are at when you get the chance

[Dannflor]

also apologies for my absence the last couple days, I still have to read EoD, I'll be more present in a few hours

[Dannflor]

I think the general stereotype/reputation of NSG as a player is that she has an excellent town game, so excellent, in fact, that meta is an strong tool to catch her with when she's scum. she also tends to prefer town and has a much higher posting rate and WIM when town. I think she *might* tend to make more time for games where she rolls town but i wouldn't consider flakiness or lurking to be strictly AI *by itself*

nsg can feel free to correct me on any of that assessment obviously but that's how I assess the general perception of her as a player

[Dannflor]

ich troje if you had to vote someone who wasn't yourself this phase, do you know who it would be?

[Dannflor]

ich troje if you had to vote someone who wasn't yourself this phase, do you know who it would be?

Flow trap would be my top choice

I know you're going on V/LA now but if you could briefly case this for me at some point I would appreciate it

[Dannflor]

Farren, when exactly did esooa switch to a heavenable read to you?

[Dannflor]

and also, why not heaven yourself?

[Dannflor]

and also, why not heaven yourself?

I don't actually think this is productive btw

wanting to "heaven yourself" is completely nai and it absolutely shouldn't be anyone's primary focus

all statements come with an assumption you will want to cause.. obviously

but yeah that's just not gonna go anywhere

I disagree

I think there's both town and scum motivation for not necessarily wanting to be heavened right away and I'd like to know Farren's reasoning even if it is just "well I would but i don't think enough people would vote for me"

[Dannflor]

hey morning tweet! good to see you

[Dannflor]

MT, will you be around tonight?

[Dannflor]

Hey I’m really sorry

Rl has been kicking my ass

I promise this game will get my time after work today

Currently fine with ich troje going to heaven

[Dannflor]

But would appreciate like 12 more hours to gather my thoughts

[Dannflor]

t3 in my opinion has generally scummy play... just like as a player

I mean read through his ISO in Not Quite Normal Multiball, even replacing into that game I had no idea what I was getting into

a case would be useful on a heaven phase but I feel like t3 needs a level of casing that goes beyond "oh look at these surface level scummy posts" if that makes any sense

I just started reading but I'll comment as I go in no particular order

[Dannflor]

[MT] has literally done more scumhunting than anyone else in the game

actually im doing nsg dirty by saying that. Same slot tho

what

i like nsg but what did she do this game?

[Dannflor]

btw before I catch the rest of the way up I will just say I was having some second thoughts about ich troje

mostly I didn't like their reaction to Farren EoD 1 and I started thinking that a flow trap + ich troje team made a lot of sense

I've cooled down from that mostly, not just because I've been away from the thread, but I think generally ich troje had one of the solidly towniest D1s and the little bits that have made me think again about their slot have been due my averse reaction the extreme over-confidence they tend to have

that being said i see the concern from farren/mt about ich troje possibly losing us judgement day

first of all, i dont intend to be letting the game get to judgement day

second of all, despite the confidence they display in thread, I am at least pretty sure troje is a smart enough player to reevaluate in heaven as needed. like if we get to a judgement day with only troje in heaven they will *have* to consider that scum was okay enough with them being in heaven to not heavily counter wagon them?

[Dannflor]

oh yeah, that's what i consider casing in the first place unless stated otherwise.
um but.... useful during the heaven phase? would it really? in what way?
partially asking because wtf, partially asking because i know im not going to have the motivation to case until we're looking at hell's deadline so like don't expect me to before then

hell phase, it was 2am and I mistyped

[Dannflor]

also I fell asleep with my phone in my hand sorry I'm back now

[Dannflor]

cliff notes on why you scum read me?

[Dannflor]

Morning Tweet is town for effort I think. That doesn't totally outweigh the meta case on nsg.

reading backwards

this is uh a bad post even considering T3

it also reads like scum that feels like they *have* to town read walls because only town put in effort but are really trying to find a way not to

there isn't even a meta case on nsg

nsg flaking is NAI

it's only AI when it's clear she's putting energies elsewhere like in Team Mafia 2020

[Dannflor]

the only point against nsg in my mind is that her posting pushing against esooa reminded me of my experience with scum!nsg in that her posting style seemed much more interested in appealing to the crowd than actually sorting alignment like I'm used to

haven't read enough from MT to form an opinion yet

[Dannflor]

I mean I'm not going to attack people just for scum reading him. I think he tends to be an easy target but if people have good reasons for scum reading him beyond just like "well, look at this posts" then that's a different case

my reaction to esooa was largely due to the fact that I had experienced extremely similar posting from scum!nsg before, I'll see if I can't dig up the examples soon. but I also have an extremely difficult time town reading nsg in general so I will admit my own (likely overboard) paranoia may have been influencing my read to a degree

I will challenge you on flow trap though. What do you mean by "stretch the amount of scumminess?" That it was scummy but I said it was too scummy? I stand by flow trap's entrance being probably the scummiest entrance to the game and at the time it was the absolute strongest thing I had to go on

[Dannflor]

also I am reading more and I think I do properly scum read T3 now lol

[Dannflor]

It's not *really* that people are saying "well look at these scummy posts by T3", though? At least, i dont feel like that's all ive/esooa've been saying\

that's completely fair, and I'm seeing more of what both of you are seeing now

I think that statement applied more to D1 where I felt like T3 was getting PoE'd because uh he made weird posts

but that's rather irrelevant now

[Dannflor]

Scumm Dannflor is scummy. Town Dannflor is towny.

?

[Dannflor]

red tea doesn't feel particularly low content to me? That feels like a scum read because you *needed* to have another null/scum read in your pile

[Dannflor]

T3, can you go a little in depth on your town lean of me?

[Dannflor]

flow trap who do you want to hell today?

[Dannflor]

T3, can you go a little in depth on your town lean of me?

Tiny brainme doesn't have any clue how to read you. So I look at your meta and I found that you get scumread by other players as scum.

what games did you look at t3

[Dannflor]

VOTE: T3

[Dannflor]

Ig Dann's tone felt off in those games.

you're adding on a reason you didn't mention before

you explicitly said you just looked at how other people were reading me and based your read off that

now you're trying to read me off my content?

[Dannflor]

T3, can you go a little in depth on your town lean of me?

Tiny brainme doesn't have any clue how to read you. So I look at your meta and I found that you get scumread by other players as scum.

what games did you look at t3

I think a mini normal and a large theme.

I'm also a little suspect you actually did this or put that much thought into it because I've historically performed fairly well as scum barring a single large theme game recently

[Dannflor]

Ywah I get why you're voting me that sequence sounded scummy.

if you're town you've gotta slow down and explain to me with a little more detail how you formed your read on me

I don't feel like you're being completely honest right now and I'm struggling to see town motivations for retroactively adjusting your read

[Dannflor]

I was uh town in 2169

[Dannflor]

I don't care whether your reasons are good or not

I don't need you to convince me I'm town

I'm asking you these questions to see if your read is genuine or not

[Dannflor]

I *think* T3 thinks the self-vote is supposed to town spew him

I did experience him self-voting once as town but they were under vastly different circumstances than this

[Dannflor]

I do think both flow trap and t3 are scum yes

I am not very certain on the third atm

[Dannflor]

hm scum

[Dannflor]

why is my take not spicy

[Dannflor]

honestly, I'm almost worried flow trap + T3 don't make much sense together and flow trap is the scum preparing for his flip

but I am struggling to see a world of town!t3 outside of that

[Dannflor]

I just feel like flow would be bussing here if they were partners

but maybe that's faulty reasoning

[Dannflor]

why am I scum, redtea?

why am i more likely to be scum than t3/flowtrap?

[Dannflor]

like it's kind of somewhat imperative that we hit scum today. It's not eliminate or lose yet but it makes the game a lot easier if we get at least one red flip today instead of going to judgement day

which really isn't the situation where you start hunting for deeper wolves

unless you suddenly have a very hard scum read on me but that's not what this seems to be?

[Dannflor]

if he's scum we heaven farren tomorrow and i will not hear otherwise

why couldn't farren and I be aligned?

[Dannflor]

you know what
you know what i had some posts ready
but no
fuck this shit
this is ridiculous

I'm not really sure what it is you're reacting to here ?

[Dannflor]

you're in the middle of the venn diagram of like every scum team guess.

that's not really a reason. why do you, personally, think that I'm scum?

this feels extremely icky considering when considering ich troje's reads before they got heavened

assuming their reads haven't changed drastically I'm not in their pool to shoot, eliminating me keeps ich troje's pool of suspects wider and makes it less likely for them to hit

why this sudden pivot

what suddenly made you believe I was the best elimination over t3? this doesn't feel real

[Dannflor]

no one has seriously pushed farren and I have not been on board to eliminate farren today

as far as I'm concerned flow/t3 are the two best pushes today

[Dannflor]

VOTE: redtea

[Dannflor]

if I die here

don't touch esooa

I'm pretty sure farren is town but less confident

[Dannflor]

redtea if you're town can you explain what your extreme reaction in #1236 was about?

I am really struggling to see this sudden change as genuine

[Dannflor]

like I don't think this actually makes sense as a town idea to make the game easier

I think this makes a lot more sense as a manufactured scum push

I don't think town usually gets this passionate about the "optimal PoE push," but you're telling me there's nothing more to it than that

there's also the fact that literally nothing has changed in the game state since last time you posted

[Dannflor]

gun to head MT is just town and the team is just redtea/t3/flowtrap with flowtrap playing very odd

I don't necessarily think MT honestly it's probably just easier to find her partners if she is scum

[Dannflor]

I'm typing/thinking too fast

I don't necessarily think MT is completely out of her scum range* but it's probably just easier to find her partners here if she is scum

[Dannflor]

I think- I think personally, a flip of someone like dann is more telling than a flip of jokesters like t3 and flow. That's one benefit of playing that way is that it cuts down on making any good associations, imo.

okay

here's the big fucking question

Why did you just now decide this was the best avenue of play? where was *this* the whole day phase?

[Dannflor]

like i said, you're active, i'm active, farren is active, dann is active. I'm town, you're town, farren is town. I swear this is a method i've used in a game before and even if i hit wrong, there is almost never no scum in a group like that.

this is literally circular reasoning

[Dannflor]

EXACTLY

t3 is dead in the water as either alignment

What do you expect SHOULD be happening instead ??

someone to quick hammer?

[Dannflor]

I think MT going along with redtea and voting me to see what happens but still questioning redtea is net town ++

just in case anyone needed more convincing on MT town

(that's mainly for you ich troje)

[Dannflor]

REDTEA/FLOW/T3 im dying

look. look ich baby. if dann is town, flip t3. forget about farren. flip t3. im begging you. please.
there, happy???

okay look i've left a good pool of nonsense for yall to think over. Dann you keep asking questions ive basically already answered. Honestly my read on you is not that deep. Nothing personal, just business.
I'm coming back tomorrow.

I don't know, redtea, this just reads kind of fake to me

and I don't feel you're engaging my questions in a way that in good faith addresses the concerns I have about your sudden shift here

which might make sense if you'd already decided my slot was lock scum

but that doesn't seem to be the case with the way you're talking about my slot?

[Dannflor]

T3/redtea/flow making a last ditch play to try to win the game, or not..

honestly I've just decided that this is the simplest solution for what's happening here

I mean I guess I could see a world where scum!redtea is doing this either to get a free flip on me or just to look good when a town!T3 flips. but then I have no idea who their other partner is

it would probably be you in that world, in which case I don't know why you are doing this because I feel like you/redtea were already in a good position

I am really struggling to see this sudden flip not coming out of some agenda

[Dannflor]

if I die here

don't touch esooa

I'm pretty sure farren is town but less confident

Why Esooa as a top don't-touch?

my strongest read from earlier in the game

I've revisited it a couple times and there's a few interactions I really struggle seeing as coming from scum. I also feel like she's been on a lot of people's "mixed/could be scum" category which gives me the heebie jeebies because I feel like NSG was the only player to ever really try to directly sort Esooa

I'll explain more and try to do a full detailed reads list later, just odn't like hammer me or whatever

[Dannflor]

I mean I guess I could see a world where scum!redtea is doing this either to get a free flip on me or just to look good when a town!T3 flips. but then I have no idea who their other partner is

it would probably be you in that world, in which case I don't know why you are doing this because I feel like you/redtea were already in a good position

now I'm suddenly really scared about this world

I need to take a break

[Dannflor]

I'm going to be busy this evening

I would like to kindly request no one hammer until I have at least one last chance to collect my thoughts

I kinda feel like i have no idea what's going on anymore

both t3 and redtea feel scummy as shit and I can't tell how much of that is just heat of the moment emotions right now

[Dannflor]

MT if you're town I will urge you to look past strictly "mindmeld" as reasons to town read redtea

I have seen too many townies write off mafia as town because they happened to say similar things

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Dannflor
This is a perspective slip.

elaborate

Nvm I misread the post.

[Dannflor]

am i crazy

[Dannflor]

is that not where town usually unvotes

but MT is probably right that t3 / redtea doesn't make a ton of sense?

maybe I'm really not getting redtea at all

[Dannflor]

I don't know I need to actually take a break now

if I die probably don't listen to any of my reads and sheep MT

[Dannflor]

redtea I would like to try again with you tomorrow because if you're town I would really like to figure it out

[Dannflor]

I'll look at esooa again too when I get back because I'm starting to feel like none of my reads make sense at all

[Dannflor]

Can't at least one person in this game distrust me

it's not that I 100% trust you but I think you're fairly likely to be town and you're also a very strong player

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Dannflor
This is a perspective slip.

elaborate

Nvm I misread the post.

So unvote?

VOTE: tedrea

ahahahahahahahah

i am going to become the joker

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

I am so embarrassed right now

Be back tonight

[Dannflor]

I *feel* like maybe redtea did that whole random push on me to 1. get the game out of the rut it was in, and 2. possibly as a reaction test for people, notably to see how T3 might react?

I felt more confident on T3 after his reaction to my wagon so redtea might have felt the same?

I'll wait until he gets back to conjecture on that anymore. but I've been rereading EoD yesterday and thinking through more calmly now I think there aren't *that* many worlds where that move makes sense as scum? Like t3/flowtrap/redtea made a little sense but now... esooa/flowtrap/redtea? eh? I feel like it still wasn't a very 'necessary' move

it felt agenda-y to me at the time but now I'm thinking its just one of those cases where its actually a town agenda

[Dannflor]

I also kinda keep going back to that "slip" interaction redtea/nsg/me had earlier in the game

that was one moment where I felt like all the people posting were *just town*

and I also tend to follow nsg's logic of mentions notes PTs being predominantly town, but I'll have to revisit it when I get home from work

if I accept that then its farren/flow though? which doesn't feel good to me immediately at all

I think at this point we can start crossing off teams due to anti-associatives, which would probably help a lot. like I'm pretty sure MT/redtea can't be aligned. Also good to keep in mind that scum literally can't bus today

[Dannflor]

was redtea really trying to hell Farren?

I thought redtea was pretty convinced Farren was town yesterday

[Dannflor]

I guess I could actually see a redtea/farren team in that case

I don't think MT/redtea makes much sense

me/redtea makes no sense but I won't be the one to argue that case

are there anti-associatives or associatives between redtea/farren or redtea/flowtrap?

[Dannflor]

these are also questions for myself when I get home tonight but feel free to answer

[Dannflor]

hm

redtea how are you reading me today?

[Dannflor]

redtea how are you reading me today?

actually same question goes for you farren

[Dannflor]

I town read flow trap briefly

[Dannflor]

okay so redtea doesn't make sense with MT for a few reasons

one is that I think scum teams are generally too self conscious / self aware to do that whole "I'll sheep you and see what happens" thing that MT did with with redtea yesterday. I mean that whole interaction followed by the subsequent questioning MT did of redtea was not only towny for MT but I think really anti-partnery. as a whole that whole move is just patently unnecessary for an MT/redtea team but that specific interaction is just generally not natural for scum teams.

Spoiler:

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

uh HELLO?? because that's exactly what happens??? As you can see now??
anyway, besides the obvious reason when maf, I try not to lurk when town either because of. Exactly this. I mean any flip helps, technically, but it's not town-serving to make yourself look suspicious.

also i got prodded lol

i mean i guess i see what you mean

, but i've yet to master the art of popping back in after 10 pages and a prod, and dropping a read just like that. I worry about being removed from the game before im done catching up.

the bolded. you see what who means?

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

you been tempted to hammer too?

i'm pondering 559, which is a bit of a strange post. call this angleshooting, but i think that "notes PTs" basically always come from town. alternatively, though (and very much against my better judgement and against advice i consistently give to other people), i am pondering the hypothesis of that post as a genuine scum PT slip. yes, yes, i know, unlikely, almost any other explanation is overwhelmingly more likely to be the case. even still, like i said—it's a bit of a strange post.

mm, i think i'm just psyching myself out maybe. it doesn't really fit the model i have for the types of posts that i see posted to notes PTs and something about the last line could read to me as responding to someone else (not you), but i think that viewed as redtea trying to prepare a bunch of posts in a notes PT in advance it makes more sense.

i mean, he said that it was meant for a notes PT, and after thinking about it i think that that's probably just the most likely explanation? for now i'm chalking another one up for the advice of "scumslips basically never happen, you should basically never ever consider that possibility unless given super hard evidence"

this whole sequence from NSG too just... never comes from a scum partner? I realize NSG came out of this exchange town reading redtea, but this feels like a really really weird way to go back interacting with your partner as a scum mate. you don't fake call our your scum mate for a fake scum slip. Or at least NSG doesn't. I just highly doubt this interaction happens if they're scum together for a lot of reasons. I don't think NSG decides she needs to town read redtea for his "notes PT" it's just very much not a partner interaction

[Dannflor]

I don't think NSG decides she needs to town read redtea for his "notes PT" it's just very much not a partner interaction

they*

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

Agree with the farren vote atp too

can you expand on this? partially cause i might have an opinion to contribute

yeah, they're in thread asking questions and taking stuff seemingly serious but they're not actually solving at all

so anyways VOTE: farren

yeah, okay
so my thought was
I also think Farren is playing it a little too easy. There is one way to look at his posts that would make me doubt he's maf, but for the most part nothing he's done is making me tr him. If someone's played with him before, any info would be helpful.
in other words, yeah ill throw them a vote
VOTE: farren

idk why yall are harping on farren with 1 (irl) day left, and on a hell phase. Who's sending

farren

to hell day 1? no one here is who

What are your reads right now redtea?

town

farren
ich

undecided, not willing to send to hell

esooa
dannflooooor
nsg
t3

undecided but willing to send to hell, push comes to shove

enchant

mafia

flow trap

initially i wasn't going to have anybody in the "mafia" tier, but I have t3 and flow trap on the same spectrum in my head and after measuring the difference between the two, decided that out of everyone here, I can definitely see flow trap as "sit-back-and-watch" scum. t3 has not earned a town read from me, but where t3 seems like they just have their own brand of townplay, flow trap's play feels more like they're sitting on a couch throwing peanuts at us.

don't take this reads list too seriously, they're weak, as always i do try to keep things liquid-y in my head d1 (moreso than most), because d2 usually brings critical info for shaping my reads, as my playstyle biases are

just

too strong for me to go much of anywhere without that additional information.

so this is redtea's general progression on farren > goes from putting pressure on farren > "who is gonna eliminate Farren D1?" > to town reading

on the surface that looks kind of partnery? says they would heaven farren in an instance but wants to keep them around for town

last phase they briefly consider helling Farren but I don't think helling Farren was ever a serious possibility. This is possible? especially if they thought Ich Troje would just kill Farren next with nothing to shake things up? I still feel like a team of farren/redtea/esooa doesn't feel the *need* to do what they did yesterday, but maybe that's a faulty basis

[Dannflor]

And... still thinking over it now.. I'm really struggling to figure out what was weirding out town!redtea EoD yesterday. It just doesn't seem like a real suspicion anymore

ok I know this isn't helpful at all but I can see it like exactly both ways right now

in the moment it felt distinctly manufactured and not real

I still feel like if town it wasn't entirely real? or at least, it was borne out of a dislike for how stale the game was getting and wanting to shake things up. whether that came from a scum agenda or a town agenda im really unsure

[Dannflor]

it's also weird to push me on the basis of me "being in the center of everyone's PoE's"

like maybe I just don't play the same way as redtea but that's a very political reason to push someone over a personal scum read

which again points towards an agenda but eh

redtea's posting about T3 end of day made me feel like he never actually wanted my wagon to go through? I'm still pretty confused

[Dannflor]

they never actually wanted my wagon to go through or they wanted to make it *look* like they never wanted my wagon to go through idk

[Dannflor]

redtea is consistently a town lean for Farren after voting redtea on #465

jumps from one wagon to another to vote but doesn't stay super long

afterwards calls redtea a viable heaven target

interesting I don't feel like either redtea or farren really pushed each other for heaven despite both heaven reading the other in various posts I can find??

[Dannflor]

so unless you can find anything else I'm gonna say redtea/farren is still a possible team, completely independent of my reads on either of them

[Dannflor]

Reason I'm seeing everything in a scummy light is I kind of feel like you and Farren are town i suppose

I'm trying to approach this from a "what teams are possible" angle and not let individual reads influence it as much as possible

because I feel like I'm in a similar boat as you but I'm not sure how much I trust my individual reads this game

do you feel like overall redtea is more likely to flip red than flow, or just fits into more worlds?

[Dannflor]

interesting I don't feel like either redtea or farren really pushed each other for heaven despite both heaven reading the other in various posts I can find??

hey so I'm kinda noticing there was basically no resistance to ich troje's heaven at all. I mean, there was a little in the form of the MT wagon, but if MT is town that's... a little weird right? I feel like there wasn't even an attempted push elsewhere

but, people clearly thought there were other heavenable targets? as evidenced by redtea and farren's posts? and yet

so I'm considering a world where scum are perfectly okay with sending ich troje to heaven because they think they have good reads for whoever the scum team is

[Dannflor]

Sorry got into the book i was reading over break lol

Its the end of a series i started as a teenager, so it means a lot to me. The book itself is quite nicely analagous with this game's setup so xD

All I'll say is - hell Farren and then I'll take the reins and fix it if i need to reeval, then heaven flow if i was right
MT i cant say either way solidly atp.
Id say more but my supervisor is giving me a stern look , gl

I guess overall that would indicate town!Farren, town!MT, and scum!flow

there's also the fact that heavening town brings judgement day closer than it would be if scum got heavened.

[Dannflor]

let's see flow/redtea

flow was on a major redtea wagon early D1, but unvoted once it got to D1

man there's not a lot of substance in any of flow's other posts

[Dannflor]

Vase - At first I didn’t like their immediate looking into me, but their explanation was adequate. I don’t like their explanation to TRQ’s “knows mafia must talk! to seem towny” as they could have said it to seem towny. I fail to see the “asking approval and complementing another player on a page 1 vote.” May have shaded FBJ in #37. I don’t like their Caberet defense, I don’t think it needed to be said. I still don’t really get why they singled out their voters other than OMGUS. I don’t like post 96 from them, I don’t see town saying this, this early. Them questioning people & reasoning out pairs is a plus. Also, them continuing after saying they were done was also a plus. -

Toss Up

Fairy - Their posts seem normal, also they SRed floo again, awaiting more. -

Null Town

Floo - I really like post 83, it mimics their previous town game; however, I don’t like 86 as it is non-sequitur. The rest of their posts are solid. -

Leaning Town

Kitty - The main thing going is their frivolous reason for suspicion on me. I don’t think scum would do this as it is very easily refuted and would put them in a bad light, but I’m not sure how to feel about them sticking to it. I would really like them to have real-time responses at one point. -

Leaning Town

FBJ - Question; in post 15, why was “supposed” in quotes? Their beginning was solid, but they quickly went into non-sequitur territory a bit. Their actions make sense with their explanations (I think your reads are biased to more serious players, it happens just informing you). -

Leaning Town

HUB - Started with a seemingly procedural opening, so not much to go off of in that matter. Is mildly out of sync at the start, but that seems like a HUB thing. Their defense of Vase was weird, as was the “SAD FACE OF SCUMMINESS”! They seem like a type to have good gut reads & mid games, so as of now -

Toss Up

Essay - Their entrance was suspicious as I’ve consistently seen “showboating” done by scum. In fact, this is about 70% of their posts so far. Also, ignored/dodged my SR. -

Leaning Scum

TRQ - Good opening, I get serious town vibes (as in a town that is playing seriously). This continues throughout the game despite half the cast having lighter tones. It also provides good reasoning to vote me. I believe TRQ has the ability to do this as scum but for now -

Null Town

so i finally got curious and looked at flow's meta. I got excited because wow big reads list as town omg!! they haven't done any of that this game! however, in this scum game they also gave a wall reads list:

Esotericzoomer - Generally sarcastic & skeptical, which is town; however it does seem
to be toned down a bit since the last time I’ve played with them. I wouldn’t count that
for much since they’ve had generally less to react to. - Null Town
Artemiana - Not sure if on purpose, but definitely blendy. I was looking at the player list
around page 10, & I literally didn’t recognize who that was. They accuse Moz of making
a weird argument (which wasn’t so weird when I think of the explanation) and then
accuse kitty because they used an old reference. It really looks like they are accusing
Norwee of being scum for using sarcasm. Would like to mention, they were using
sarcasm (post 242). - Leaning Scum
KittyTacky - Posts 116 & 241 are town to me, I really don’t see scum making the
chainsaw defense in the way that they did and they are also sticking to their guns about
it. I don’t see how they aren’t stepping on any toes when they accused someone of a
chainsaw defense, which involves calling 2 people scum. I think they could be more
diverse in their reads though. - Strong Town
Rathe - Would be good if they could post more; the high density in what they have is
good though. - Null town
Not_Mafia - They vibing - Don’t want to shoot
UNOwen - They are quiet. I’m finding the fair enough posts town, but I’m probably
biased. The “Why are you on my don't trust list?” was confusing, but I wouldn’t call it
outright scummy. I just find logic/planning types hard to read in general. - Null
Zulfy - Similar to Owen, but they’re bolder with their logic and also more sound with it -
Null town
Elsa Jay - I really like their opening, but they’ve become passive since around post 200
which I don’t like. The openness to the pocket is something. If anything it’s probably
more towny since some town actually like to not appear scummy to distract from the
other players. - Null Scum

however, i feel like there are some marked differences between them? namely, the first one invites more questions and also asks more questions than the second. there's more of a genuine curiosity about people's alignments rather than the second which feels more like reasons to put people in boxes. (granted I could be totally conf biasing given the circumstances I found these under)

but I feel like I'm lacking a lot of that curiosity in flow's play this game

like where was that flow when T3 was on the chopping block

[Dannflor]

I'm kinda worried about the possibility of a Farren/flow_trap team

like I don't really think Farren as scum. but I also don't really feel like redtea as scum either. which I realize is a problem. I was really hoping there'd be some way to eliminate a flowtrap/farren or farren/redtea team or something but I don't really see a way to do that

I guess ich troje probably just shoots Farren if we're wrong on redtea

[Dannflor]

lol fuck I don't know if I can discount flowtrap/MT either

individual reads on you both completely aside

[Dannflor]

VOTE: flowtrap

I feel like ultimately flowtrap fits into slightly more worlds than redtea can? and ich troje who got zero resistance was strongly strongly town reading flow trap and will probably never shoot them

so I feel slightly safer helling flow this phase

[Dannflor]

I'm at the point where im giving up on that stuff and am just putting faith in what i feel is town in the moment WHICH... works... sometimes

that's fair

i just...

have no faith in any of my individual reads this game

I don't think helling redtea is necessarily bad either. this game feels somewhat hard for scum regardless of the team. I'm still just really scared though, probably unreasonably so

[Dannflor]

I also have more faith in your strong town feelings than mine haha

[Dannflor]

okay so this sounds very ridiculous im sure, but now I can't get out of my head the paranoia crazy MT/flowtrap team

I'm afraid if we were to hell redtea and they flipped town, ich troje's next logical target is farren. which hits most worlds except for that one

I'm like 99% sure it's like impossible for MT and redtea to be aligned. so if flow flips town and ich troje shoots farren, that covers like all possible teams from my perspective

[Dannflor]

anyway it is 1am I need to sleep, I'll try to check back in tomorrow morning

[Dannflor]

omg mt thinks there are 205% townies in this game

getther

[Dannflor]

I'm like a little surprised no one has jumped on and accused me and MT of being partners yet

[Dannflor]

as far as i can tell MT has been approaching much of this day phase assuming i am town

likewise ive also been pretty much assuming MT is town

i don't think the fact that she deigns to use shorthand such as "x is town" over "i think x is town" is a very good case

[Dannflor]

Remember that early game tinfoil by Ich that we were both partners doing a bit to redtea about the notes PT thing? I haven't forgotten how weird that'd be as partner behaviour

yeah i think i called this a diseased town brain theory

love ya ich

[Dannflor]

waiting for redtea to come along and be like "WHY HAS NO ONE HAMMERED FLOW TRAP YET? ITS A BIT SUS"

[Dannflor]

and then push me

[Dannflor]

what

[Dannflor]

do you think she's lying?

[Dannflor]

okay so redtea doesn't make sense with MT for a few reasons

one is that I think scum teams are generally too self conscious / self aware to do that whole "I'll sheep you and see what happens" thing that MT did with with redtea yesterday. I mean that whole interaction followed by the subsequent questioning MT did of redtea was not only towny for MT but I think really anti-partnery. as a whole that whole move is just patently unnecessary for an MT/redtea team but that specific interaction is just generally not natural for scum teams.

Spoiler:

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

uh HELLO?? because that's exactly what happens??? As you can see now??
anyway, besides the obvious reason when maf, I try not to lurk when town either because of. Exactly this. I mean any flip helps, technically, but it's not town-serving to make yourself look suspicious.

also i got prodded lol

i mean i guess i see what you mean

, but i've yet to master the art of popping back in after 10 pages and a prod, and dropping a read just like that. I worry about being removed from the game before im done catching up.

the bolded. you see what who means?

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

you been tempted to hammer too?

i'm pondering 559, which is a bit of a strange post. call this angleshooting, but i think that "notes PTs" basically always come from town. alternatively, though (and very much against my better judgement and against advice i consistently give to other people), i am pondering the hypothesis of that post as a genuine scum PT slip. yes, yes, i know, unlikely, almost any other explanation is overwhelmingly more likely to be the case. even still, like i said—it's a bit of a strange post.

mm, i think i'm just psyching myself out maybe. it doesn't really fit the model i have for the types of posts that i see posted to notes PTs and something about the last line could read to me as responding to someone else (not you), but i think that viewed as redtea trying to prepare a bunch of posts in a notes PT in advance it makes more sense.

i mean, he said that it was meant for a notes PT, and after thinking about it i think that that's probably just the most likely explanation? for now i'm chalking another one up for the advice of "scumslips basically never happen, you should basically never ever consider that possibility unless given super hard evidence"

this whole sequence from NSG too just... never comes from a scum partner? I realize NSG came out of this exchange town reading redtea, but this feels like a really really weird way to go back interacting with your partner as a scum mate. you don't fake call our your scum mate for a fake scum slip. Or at least NSG doesn't. I just highly doubt this interaction happens if they're scum together for a lot of reasons. I don't think NSG decides she needs to town read redtea for his "notes PT" it's just very much not a partner interaction

[Dannflor]

I really still prefer flowtrap here just because I think he's slightly more likely to be scum and fits into slightly more possibilities. it's not a major difference but i think eliminating flow trap here wins like 10/10 times vs. eliminating redtea wins like 9/10 times if that makes sense. the math isn't precise shut up

also a little bit wary about farren wanting redtea over flow here, but i guess there's no chance ich troje shoots MT here if redtea flips town

RIGHT ICH TROJE

RIGHT?

simplest answer is just flow/redtea so it doesn't really matter in the end

[Dannflor]

im gonna be honest there is a voice in the back of mind paranoid about ich troje shooting me here if we flip town

especially with how ich troje had flow trap as a top top town read

[Dannflor]

despite my trs on farren and mt i was worried about why the wagon was stalling. Flow kept up his weird t3 "town feel" thing and wouldn't vote. Esooa was.. not here. Didn't feel right.

i do think atp flow was probably TMIing T3 town so ill give you that i guess

[Dannflor]

Does that contradict your view of redtea exaggerating paranoia in order to get something going Dann? Cause I still find it sort of hard to believe i suppose

TMIing is when you give away that you're informed sorta... for example, I think it's possible flow TMIed T3!town, since no uninformed person would defend T3 so heavily yesterday. That's what I'm thinking, anyway

eh i mean it sounds like it was a little bit of both?

at the time i found it unbelievable but now that I'm less emotional it still actually makes a lot more sense to me

like ive at those moments of overthinking/paranoia before as town and i feel like *very generally* scum tends towards the status quo even if that status quo is bad for scum

but in this case, i dont think a team of esooa/redtea/flowtrap had to do anything like what redtea did there in order to win? like i think they'd be confident still that ich troje would just shoot farren on an easy town flip like T3. even if esooa goes we're in the same position as today except redtea didn't draw a bunch of attention to themself and can still push me today with more cred?

idk, that's the only thing that makes me a little skeptical that it is redtea/flowtrap exactly because i don think that team would have ever pulled that yesterday for any sort of agenda reason (and redtea's move felt fully agenday). i could see redtea/farren doing that but ehhh

i think ive mostly become more suspicious of flowtrap in particular since i went back and saw that ich troje had flow trap as their singular never-hell/prime heaven slot and there was also like paltry resistance to the ich troje heaven

[Dannflor]

same

[Dannflor]

Maybe they misunderstood something else that led them to believe they needed to do that to win though, I dunno.

it's also a little hard to see this when they presumably have two team mates communicating with them

[Dannflor]

what i really dont get is why he hasn't expressed really any desire to vote or convince us who is scum beyond like, me sort of

another reason im paranoid redtea/flowtrap somehow isn't the team

i feel like flow would be casing harder or doing *something* harder

but idk there's always the possibility scum have sorta given up? that feels dangerous to assume tho

[Dannflor]

I guess flow tried to reread me but that didn't go anywhere

[Dannflor]

oh god that's not what i want to hear

too much responsibility