Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

[northsidegal]

t3 probably town? flow trap probably scum

VOTE: flow trap

[northsidegal]

North has said nothing scummy idk why there's a wagon on them

i think that if i were RC i would kill you for this post alone

[northsidegal]

t3 probably town?

elaborate?

seems to be having fun in a way which doesn't match anything of my memory from situation room (scum) and which, upon checking, sort of matches the behavior from townstumps (town), so with n=2 examples it's pretty much a lock townread.

this is the kind of high quality scumhunting that we do over here at NSG Ltd.

[northsidegal]

what's your point?

[northsidegal]

North has said nothing scummy idk why there's a wagon on them

i think that if i were RC i would kill you for this post alone

I don't like this post. It sounds like an appeal to authority.

it's mostly just me talking to myself, really.

[northsidegal]

it's mostly just me talking to myself, really.

Why do you dislike the post?

i'm not sure i could really coherently articulate a line of reasoning there, i basically meant exactly what i said – it just pattern matches the kind of awkward post that i feel like RC would scumread. if i were to put that into words i guess you would just call it a toneread, or you could just say that it's sort of a really awkward question that might seem more likely to come from scum.

the reason i bring it up at all is sort of as a marker for myself to sort of think a bit more about why exactly it would be scum indicative. that is, i feel like RC would scumread it, but if i myself had a really great coherent reason to scumread it, i would've just said it. so it leaves me wondering as to what's there that i'm sort of missing, if that makes any sense.

See 107

could you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by that?

[northsidegal]

could you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by that?

It's a basic personality clash :3

But I think you're town I see the town effort

no, i'm asking you to elaborate on what you meant by your original post, 26.

[northsidegal]

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

[northsidegal]

flow trap it would be helpful if you would take this game a bit more seriously

[northsidegal]

also, @flow trap, what is your actual read on esooa? do you actually scumread her?

also interested to hear dann's opinion on esooa's ISO up until this point.

[northsidegal]

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

nsg I love your profile picture btw lol

thanks, by the way.

[northsidegal]

why did you ask me specifically and why about this slot specifically? also if i may return the favor, thoughts on redtea?

i ask because i think there's a decent chance that you're both scum and in general i think that it's a decent strategy to force people you think are scumbuddies to talk about each other, but also if you're town i'd still be interested in hearing your thoughts on a slot that i think is scum.

flow trap it would be helpful if you would take this game a bit more seriously

Wow, I'm even stepping it up for this game already

How?

how would it be helpful? it would make it easier to read you. if you're town it would probably help you not get killed, thus helping town by preventing your miselimination.

[northsidegal]

oops, forgot to answer about redtea, although i have basically nothing to say there. from memory i have a vaguely towny impression, but nothing strong at all.

[northsidegal]

dannfloor/nsg

this pairing is interesting

ive been nursing a paranoia nsg read since basically her entrance but i think that paranoia was bound to come up at some point this game so im not really giving it any credence until nsg gets a chance to play more

what exactly pinged you about either of our posts?

to be honest, i'm not sure why i would be a "paranoia" read at all. really, i think that i've been townread far too easily and quickly this game – if anything, i would expect to either be basically null. of course, i don't think that my being townread quickly is necessarily the product of scum, but for you specifically i feel like i have memory of you by default being more hesitant to townread me in the most recent games we've played together. i feel like i'm not really seeing any of that attitude here, or i suppose i'm seeing less of it.

[northsidegal]

town.

also meh, maybe i'm overthinking dannflor's play with regards to me.

[northsidegal]

how well do you think you can wolf?

i'm unsure. i sort of wanted to roll scum this game because it's been quite a long time since i've played scum and i have a somewhat poor reputation for it, so i was interested in sort of testing my skills. unfortunately that did not happen.

people say a lot of different things about me and how good or bad i am at things. few, i think, are accurate.

town.

also meh, maybe i'm overthinking dannflor's play with regards to me.

Maybe. But it was pretty villagery regardless, so that's cool

glad to know.

VOTE: esooa

[northsidegal]

could you give me a quick list of your reads as they stand right now, esooa?

[northsidegal]

would you agree that there's something a little unbelievable about the idea that this seems to be your reaction only when prompted for reads instead of your immediate reaction to seeing that post?

[northsidegal]

would you further agree that, if you think that that is the wolfiest post in the thread, the fact that your initial reaction to what troje said about your meta was to imply that they were not up to date on it rather than to think that they were scum simply lying to push you somewhat indicates that you actually believe (or are informed) that troje is town?

[northsidegal]

i would say there are other concerns.

would it bother you if i refrained from elaborating on those for a while?

[northsidegal]

nsg are you specifically trying anything different this game from how you normally play? if you consider yourself to have a "normal" style or method of playing to begin with

nope, not really.

This feels like 5 sentences basically saying the same thing.

i like to explain myself when i feel i actually have a point to make. sometimes it's hard to translate what you're intuitively feeling into words.

[northsidegal]

despite me throwing a pretty large amount of shade your way, you have not commented on it at all to the best of my memory, why is that?

i don't really recall seeing anything from you that seemed to really warrant a response. was there some question i missed? apart from that, all i remember is just a general suspicion you had of me, and the thought that i discredit people as scum, or something. (that's not an attempt to downplay what you said, i'm really just speaking off memory here)

[northsidegal]

nsg are you specifically trying anything different this game from how you normally play? if you consider yourself to have a "normal" style or method of playing to begin with

by the way dann, i'm curious. i'm decently confident that you're relatively similar to me when it comes to following a flow of making a prediction, asking a question, and updating based on the response. so what was your prediction for this question, and how would you have updated either way i would have answered it?

[northsidegal]

troje, i'm also curious to hear your thoughts as to seemingly thinking that both me and esooa are scum. thoughts there?

[northsidegal]

skimming through your ISO, apart from instances where you basically just say you scumread me (and you asking me why i sound "nervous"), this seems to really be the only elaboration on that. it's a little nonspecific and hard to understand, really, so i don't think there's a ton to really engage with here.

I am no good at vocalizing it but iirc it was a sort of vibe of agreeableness in the sense that it felt correct but in the way that it was stating feel good stuff/stuff that was not bad but also not good, just in that deadzone of "huh, this isn't right". Perhaps I mixed your posts together and sort of combined my read in a way.

[northsidegal]

troje, i'm also curious to hear your thoughts as to seemingly thinking that both me and esooa are scum. thoughts there?

thoughts are this question made me laugh because of how vague it is like are you afraid of details

i try to avoid "leading the witness", as it were. in my experience, leaving people mostly to display their own thought processes is a more effective way of sorting them.

[northsidegal]

^ does town NSG actually not notice when someone strongly thinks there is a possibility they are scum

sorry, let me be clear - i noticed that you scumread me, but nothing i saw from you really seemed to warrant engagement, your just stating you scumread me included.

[northsidegal]

specifically posts #386 and #388 felt very... out of character for my conception of how you would react in this situation. both questions appear to me to not really be questions? Like I don't believe you actually thought you were going to get a informative answer out of esooa either way here. You're framing an observation or essentially a "case" as a question for the person you're accusing, and not really in a way that allows for esooa to respond in any other way than basically "uh no" which is indeed how she reacted. you say you don't normally like to "lead the witness" and it feels like that is exactly what you're doing.

responding to this part first - those were rhetorical, more a way of demonstrating my point than actually asking a question.

[northsidegal]

that is to say, the question is meant to demonstrate what i'm thinking, but also meant to be posed sort of to the playerlist at large rather than just to esooa.

[northsidegal]

I just don't remember you as being a very rhetorical player

-shrug-

i don't think it's really about "being rhetorical" or anything, to me it's just a pretty minor alternate way of phrasing my opinion while also inviting comment.

also, i get that there's a lot i'm not responding to here, been phoneposting most all day. i'll try to respond fully when i get back to a computer.

also also, random thought - if you're town, i wonder how much of your model of my play is informed by games where i replace in as opposed to ones played from the start. has consequences wrt expectations of behavior, given starting with a lot to analyze when replacing vs not having a ton when starting.

[northsidegal]

never met-a player i couldn't read!

[northsidegal]

don't think that it was? esooa, farren, t3 and troje are the only ones voting him, near as i can tell. sorry if this interrupts any sick twilight sorting anyone was planning to do but i don't think it's actually a hammer.

[northsidegal]

anyways, i'm gonna reread the game and try to consolidate some reads in a few hours. bother me if i don't.

[northsidegal]

who were you referring to when you said "you" in the last line there?

[northsidegal]

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

[northsidegal]

like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

uh HELLO?? because that's exactly what happens??? As you can see now??
anyway, besides the obvious reason when maf, I try not to lurk when town either because of. Exactly this. I mean any flip helps, technically, but it's not town-serving to make yourself look suspicious.

also i got prodded lol

i mean i guess i see what you mean

, but i've yet to master the art of popping back in after 10 pages and a prod, and dropping a read just like that. I worry about being removed from the game before im done catching up.

the bolded. you see what who means?

[northsidegal]

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

you been tempted to hammer too?

i'm pondering 559, which is a bit of a strange post. call this angleshooting, but i think that "notes PTs" basically always come from town. alternatively, though (and very much against my better judgement and against advice i consistently give to other people), i am pondering the hypothesis of that post as a genuine scum PT slip. yes, yes, i know, unlikely, almost any other explanation is overwhelmingly more likely to be the case. even still, like i said—it's a bit of a strange post.

[northsidegal]

mm, i think i'm just psyching myself out maybe. it doesn't really fit the model i have for the types of posts that i see posted to notes PTs and something about the last line could read to me as responding to someone else (not you), but i think that viewed as redtea trying to prepare a bunch of posts in a notes PT in advance it makes more sense.

[northsidegal]

i mean, he said that it was meant for a notes PT, and after thinking about it i think that that's probably just the most likely explanation? for now i'm chalking another one up for the advice of "scumslips basically never happen, you should basically never ever consider that possibility unless given super hard evidence"

[northsidegal]

-shrug-

i'll confess that i didn't check the rules before talking about it, but i don't think that i've broken any. maybe you could call it unethical, but i've never really agreed with that sort of philosophy. regardless, this'll be the last post i make on the subject.

[northsidegal]

what do you find strange about it? I admit I had trouble navigating the phrasing at first but I think it makes pretty clear sense to me now

Last night when i saw the posts I briefly thought a dann/redtea/nsg team was viable based on thinking that there was beatlejuice going on to save redtea but on reflection of the above i dont think so. If redtea IS scum I think though the 2 have higher chances of being scum based on that event

hahaha, that is a completely backwards and paranoiac take

way, way

less likely than even individually a scumslip happening.

[northsidegal]

they both seem roughly the same to me? was referring specifically to the second sentence, though.

[northsidegal]

I'd say there's a difference between "this is a viable team, because of reason X" and "if A flips scum, B and C are more likely to be scum" - in degree, if nothing else. Especially if reason X is questionable.

Why is "if redtea flips scum, Dannflor / northsidegal are more likely to be scum" so completely backwards and paranoiac?

it's backwards because for it to be the case multiple events which individually are already incredibly unlikely must all happen together, which makes them multiplicatively less likely to happen together. the first is the assumption that redtea actually scumslipped, which as i advise people often, you should basically just never assume without seriously hard evidence. actual scumslips happen far less often in proportion to the amount of incidents where people think they do. the second assumption is that, after scumslipping with a post meant for the scum PT which miraculously doesn't link to it or really refer or respond to anyone else except the post he was responding to, redtea felt the need to cover his tracks by saying it was meant for a notes PT. i briefly thought that this could be the case yesterday, but on reflection i just don't think it's all that likely – the post was already innocuous enough and could've just been left alone and probably nobody would've taken notice, and if they did he could

then

say that it was meant for his notes PT.

the third and i think least likely assumption is that me and dann then staged that small discussion to sort of "poison the well". two things in response to this thought – first, had redtea actually scumslipped and were i partners with him, i probably would have just lolhammered him rather than trying to keep him alive. i think that given a theoretical team of red/me/dann, that would give us a far easier path to victory than attempting the opposite. second, in my experience scum just don't tend to plan things out like this. scum plans obviously exist, but i think that in general people tend to overestimate the degree to which scum plan things out. i think that most scum plans tend to be sort of vague things: "i'll bus you", "let's hard defend each other", "let's try to push X". planning out a conversation to downplay a scumslip doesn't really fall within my model (or, i honestly think, any reasonable model) of how scum actually play.

[northsidegal]

[esooa, ich troje]
[farren, red tea?]
[nsg, t3] - null/mixed
[flow trap]
[enchant]

this is about where I am after a reread

elaborate on ich town?

[northsidegal]

ooh, i'd have to fight you on that one if you went for it.

[northsidegal]

it's one day, 16 hours until deadline.

[northsidegal]

it's one day, 16 hours until deadline.

interesting thing to react to first thing.

oooh, how diabolically scummy of me!!!

[northsidegal]

I wanna case Farren but first I want people to read that slot themselves and say what they think so people can't just copy me here.

this is just a personal question - why care about people "copying" you?

[northsidegal]

I don't care about any snark you might have towards my accusations, I too can shit out smartass comments against people's legitimate concerns on people's actions when I'm scum to discredit their push.

What is your read on Farren?

-shrug-

i try to avoid being snarky in general, although i suppose what i said earlier probably was. just seemed like a sort of silly accusation, hence my reaction. it's possible i'm just biased, though. so, sorry if it bothered you.

at the moment i think farren is probably more likely town than not.

[northsidegal]

good game, congrats on the first setup scum win dann, apologies to all for flaking. was i actually right about that one post being a scumslip, red/dann?

[northsidegal]

can we get the scum pt?