Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

[Farren]

First bribe payment accepted. Still plenty of installments left to go, though.

VOTE: northsidegal - thanks for getting us going!

[Farren]

Hey Dannflor!

[Farren]

The starting music was a nice touch. Connects with the theme to some extent, which I think is a plus.

And yes, I did have a reason for voting northsidegal. She has a good reputation, and I want plenty of opportunity to engage with her early.

[Farren]

There's also an incentive to vote early vote often - the more we vote, the more vote tallies we're likely to get, which means more 80s music to listen to. And more to look at later, which is probably more important from a "winning the game" perspective, but not so much from an "80s music is awesome" perspective.

[Farren]

Shouldn't take too long to get to page 3.

[Farren]

And then we can start a glorious wagon. Pitchforks raised in unison, ominous chants ...

[Farren]

Forgetting something would require knowledge of it beforehand.

[Farren]

And what do you propose to do about this lack of knowledge?

[Farren]

A surprisingly good answer. Doesn't seem like it should be, but I like it.

PEdit> Bribes in this game must be paid with 80s music.
PEdit> Don't do it! Hold out for good music!

[Farren]

So because you were daycopped and found guilty, you were flung from the heavens?

[Farren]

Pocket Attempt, Refuse, Vote

Solved the game, Dan's town

Why is this a town mindset?

[Farren]

Either you get it or you don't :3

I don't get it. Please explain.

[Farren]

Ok the joke is that I put something scummy and said it was towny. I did so in the following way:

1. Misrepresentation; It was not a pocket attempt, but I made it look like it was
2. Non-sequitur; It was irrelevant and I actually TR them for their opening

Thank you.

[Farren]

This was enhanced by the fact I put "I solved the game" before it, as usually when you say that you follow up with scum reads thereby doubling the surprise of me saying I TRed them as well as adding better timing :3

Minus one scheming point.

[Farren]

North has said nothing scummy idk why there's a wagon on them

i think that if i were RC i would kill you for this post alone

I don't like this post. It sounds like an appeal to authority.

[Farren]

it's mostly just me talking to myself, really.

Why do you dislike the post?

[Farren]

See 107

I have a townread on you. Please don't change that to past tense.

[Farren]

So yeah, actually.
Let's locktown me and nsg and yeet Farren into hell. VOTE: Farren

You're welcome to try.

[Farren]

i'm not sure i could really coherently articulate a line of reasoning there, i basically meant exactly what i said – it just pattern matches the kind of awkward post that i feel like RC would scumread. if i were to put that into words i guess you would just call it a toneread, or you could just say that it's sort of a really awkward question that might seem more likely to come from scum.

the reason i bring it up at all is sort of as a marker for myself to sort of think a bit more about why exactly it would be scum indicative. that is, i feel like RC would scumread it, but if i myself had a really great coherent reason to scumread it, i would've just said it. so it leaves me wondering as to what's there that i'm sort of missing, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, okay. There's resonance here.

UNVOTE: northsidegal

[Farren]

why are you townreading me or flow trap?

Because you used bad reasoning but were correct as to why in your townread of me so I think the thought was real.
Actually I don't know why I'm townreading flow trap.

Could you please explain this further? (the TR on northsidegal)

[Farren]

ah fuck there are 3 scum i thought it was only 2

Townslip?

[Farren]

i skimmed it like while I was high as shit and saw the game was almost pulled and inned to hero save it to run, all i know is there's a tiebreak mechanic or something at the end.

Might want to read the mechanics before we get to D2.

[Farren]

iche troje has made like 3 posts that could be conceived as "town slips"

What else, besides the number of scum?

[Farren]

I know enough that we want scum in hell and town in heaven

That's the important bit. The rest is details.

[Farren]

this is a gamestate I want to passively observe I think and not make any pushes in rn - so I'm gonna step back for now.

I will explain in due time but it's a tactical move to prevent shifting any pieces that may be scum into an advantageous space because I tend to do that if I hardpush too early lol

Part of me wants to townread you for this. But it's the part that thinks everyone is a clone of me.

Think I want to wait for Dannflor before probing further here. I can totally see faking a townslip, but most people don't put enough effort to fake them repeatedly.

[Farren]

T3, are you going to start poking me with a sharp stick any time soon?

[Farren]

This stick isn't pointy. I demand a refund.

[Farren]

Would a downy pillow be more to your taste? Or perhaps a torch?

PEdit> to T3.

[Farren]

my townslips are just NAI.

I am 100% aware they don't work on this site and occasionally fake them as scum just so it isn't true meta.

See, I just got that part of me that thinks everyone's like me to shut up, and now it's crowing about being right. Thanks a lot.

[Farren]

but also i didnt really townslip with the mafia number thing lmfao i just stated it cuz i like being townread but also know someone is gonna make a shitstorm over me potentially "faking a townslip as scum!" so yep.

Although now that I think of it, this completely invalidates my previous line of thinking about "lots of slips = probably legit."

Wait ... if you did it because you like being townread, why do you consider it NAI?

[Farren]

Disagree that it's bad, but think it's been taken far enough for now.

[Farren]

The angel of death.

This is more like the angel of hangnails.

[Farren]

I think Ich openly saying "yeah, the slip is NAI is towny"?

It's shooting themself in the foot, to some extent. It's .. schemy, but the transparency does puncture a hole in that.

I think I just need to schedule another paranoia appointment later. Maybe a recurring set of appointments.

[Farren]

yeah, they're in thread asking questions and taking stuff seemingly serious but they're not actually solving at all

so anyways VOTE: farren

False.

I solve by asking people questions. That is my solving process. I ask questions, ponder the answers, ask more, repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat again. Eventually, I come to conclusions. Then, I abandon those conclusions and poke people some more. Eventually, time runs out and I have to make some sort of decision.

Here's one for you: why do you think that my questions are not related to solving?

[Farren]

To try to give an idea of what's running through my head right now - I'm trying to figure out if I can deduce anything about flow trap and/or T3 as a result of the wagon forming on me.

If flow trap is scum, then scum was being pressured - logical thing is that scum needs a counterwagon.
However, I'm one of the people that's townreading flow trap. I'm not a very good choice as a counterwagon in scum|flow trap world.
Makes flow trap a little less likely to be scum - increases the town read a little. Plus flow trap didn't jump on me when given the opportunity ... but no, that's probably NAI, as based on what I said earlier.

I keep running around in mental circles where T3 is concerned. Maybe I need to do a meta dive there. Try to figure out how he hunts as Town.

[Farren]

because you gave no conclusions or anything from your questions. They went no where for the most part

Also false. 96, 130 as counterexamples. Also 184 as an example of one that, while it didn't go anywhere, I state pretty clearly what I was intending and why - demonstrating that it did have the potential to go somewhere.

[Farren]

V/LA for the next 20 hours, give or take.

[Farren]

what were you waiting on me for? rather, how exactly were you planning on probing ich troje "deeper?"

It wasn't so much a "how would I" as a "would I at all" situation.

One: if I thought, "Hey, these really do look like townslips," then I *wouldn't* probe Ich Troje deeper - at least for a while. I'd put them in the "good enough for now" bucket and move on.
Two: if I thought, "I don't think these are townslips at all, but I can see why Dannflor thinks they are," then we're back to just the one townslip, and I probe them some more.
Three: if I thought, "These 'slips' are a bunch of BS," then I start looking at both you and Ich Troje closer, with an emphasis on you.

I don't necessarily expect extra self-awareness from scum in general - just in the sorts of things that would show up on a red role PM but *not* a green role PM. Alignment of people other than themself. Presence / absence of daytalk. That sort of thing.

[Farren]

random thought: but I think overall I tend to make these types of posts more as scum, I think i feel more guilt for not producing content and like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

this is purely anecdotal and only relevant to me but I would be interested in some kind of data on these types of posts

It's one of those "everyone* does it, but scum do it more" deals, I think. Maybe not "make those specific posts in general", but "be subject to that line of thinking and let it influence their behavior." RL can be to blame, and in those cases I'd put it at NAI.

* - Some people enjoy playing scum and aren't affected by this.

[Farren]

ponder the answers

I think if you're town sharing this part of the process more would be helpful in reading you

It probably would, yes. It would probably also cause some people to start bleeding from the eyeballs if I started just putting my thoughts to words and hitting submit without deleting all of the "wait, that doesn't make sense" moments.

[Farren]

Flow and Farren are locktown for me atp.

My gun to head now is that Esooa/Dannfloor/NSG/redtea contains all 3 scum, listed by strength of read.

I had some lingering suspicions / pings on Dannflor earlier. Nothing coherent. I'm feeling better about him now; getting a sense of what he looks for is one of those things that's +Town.

[Farren]

kobas read on me is consistently one of the worst btw

in case anyone was wondering

Haven't caught up yet, but if I were, I'd be voting for you now.

[Farren]

Oh, that didn't take long.

VOTE: Esooa

[Farren]

farrens posting didn't change my mind on them at all

VOTE: red tea

why did you drop farren here

I liked the idea of a new wagon

Given that your previous thoughts on me were that I was scummy, I don't see how you get from "Farren is scummy" to "I think I'll vote elsewhere" without changing your mind. Moreover, jumping to someone that was voting for me at the time.

The logical explanation is that you don't actually think I'm scummy.

Actually, I did just think of a potential reason - at least for the changing your vote in general. But I still want to hear yours.

[Farren]

can you elaborate on what specifically?

I have not been the most transparent this game about what I'm looking for / my reads so im curious how exactly are you approaching my slot

The ping was just the "hm scum" line from earlier. And I had a mental note to follow up on that earlier, which I promptly forgot about.

Hunting is good. If I see someone hunting the way I do, that's easy enough to figure out. But most people don't hunt like I do, so I try to get ideas on how, see if I can at least understand what they're thinking. If not, it's either a scum-sign or a sign that I'm going to have major problems with that person, one way or the other.

[Farren]

honestly I feel like you don't randomly hop on a new wagon, while you still had traction on the old wagon, admit you are still scum reading your old wagon, and then claim your only reason for starting the new wagon is "I felt like it," as scum

I don't think there was much traction left in that wagon.

[Farren]

redtea (4):

flow trap, Esooa, Farren, Dannflor

@mod

: I did not vote for redtea. My vote's on Esooa.

[Farren]

Town esooa likes to get into fights and thunderdomes, scum esooa likes to stay away from that, both are aggressive though usually, but scum esooa notably is not as much so or rather can be passive and let others run the show.

Would you say Esooa and I are in a fight?

[Farren]

385 is interesting. I want to come back to this later. There may be something Town here, depending on what happens later.

[Farren]

no nsg reply yet, how sad, I want her to town read me

What's the tone here?

[Farren]

I'm not gonna vote camp someone all day. Sounds boring. Besides that I scum read red, which I've said. You've really got a problem with someone moving their vote from one scum read to another?

Depends on the circumstances. On what you're trying to accomplish.

[Farren]

Moreover, jumping to someone that was voting for me at the time.

and btw anyone who says stuff like this day 1 needs to stop

Request denied. That would require me pretending to be someone I'm not.

[Farren]

385 is interesting. I want to come back to this later. There may be something Town here, depending on what happens later.

what does this mean lol

I think 385 may be a sign that I'm misreading you, but I need more information. It's not the sort of information where I can just ask a question, get an answer, and go from there, so I have to wait and see what happens.

[Farren]

If you are scum, I don't want to just blurt things out and give you a chance to try to manufacture anything.

[Farren]

I summon

redtea

from the inky void.

[Farren]

UNVOTE: Esooa
VOTE: redtea

And yes, I am aware that I am jumping from the person I was voting for to the person that she's currently voting for.

[Farren]

Ich
flow trap
Enchant
Dannflor
Farren
--- NULL
redtea
northsidegal
Esooa
T3

T3's at the bottom of the list. I don't think I've ever seen anybody do that before.

Given the reads, everything else appears to line up with top=Town, bottom=scum.

That seems too weird to be a slip. I'd say maybe +Town in a vacuum?

[Farren]

because you're being pocketed. Get some better reads. Maybe reading glasses

Who's pocketing them, and why?

[Farren]

you mean the same game I literally coasted the entirety of day 2 without doing anything?

Stop fucking using meta. This is unbelievable. It's so bad.

Nothing wrong with using meta. It's a tool like any other.

Unless you're arguing that this is a *scummy* use of meta. I don't think you are - but are you?

[Farren]

This reaction reads to me as genuine?

It reads to me as somewhere between annoyed and angry. Being annoyed and/or angry that one is being scumread for what one thinks are bad reasons isn't alignment indicative. It's natural for Town, but "caught for the wrong reasons" is a thing for scum.

Do you see anything that can differentiate between the two?

[Farren]

and like I've said I think these posts have good depth of thought. I think one of the, more difficult reads to make as a wolf? is accusing townies of TMI--it's hard to see that when you do yourself

This I like.

[Farren]

Enchant: you've been in the game long enough. So far, it's all been about T3. What else do you have?

[Farren]

Enchant looks reasonably confident, at least in that one opinion.

[Farren]

oh shit
i mean... saves me from having to catch up?
was i really hammered?

Consensus on that appears to be "no", although I haven't personally double-checked.

If you're Town, might be a good time to start putting in some effort.
If you're scum, carry on.

[Farren]

How long will it take you to catch up?

[Farren]

I didn't see 562 on first glance, and was wondering where the heck northsidegal came up with the "notes PT" business until I took another look.

559 didn't have any sort of "notes" vibe to me. Didn't have any sort of "this belonged in scumchat" vibe either, though. The former makes me wonder, though - it's a response to someone. It's not a reminder for later. It's not the sort of post that would require a draft, IMO. (wallpost, post full of cites and links, blistering case, etc.)

But it's a response to a genuine quote in the thread - and I did double-check that. I don't see anything about it that would prompt 562 as "scum covering their tracks".

I think for it to be a scumchat thing, it'd have to be a case of ... like, asking for a tonal evaluation by a scumpartner, or something like that? I don't see a lot of scumchats where that's common.

PEdit> holy crap, that's a lot of posts.
General rule in a lot of rulesets: "if you have a notes PT, don't mention it in the thread." I haven't seen any rule that says "if someone mentions a notes PT, pretend like they didn't," or anything similar. Analyzing something that looks like it doesn't belong in the thread is fair game, unless it flat out doesn't belong in the game at all.

PEdit again > Dannflor: I've requested Notes PTs as scum before. Once, I think; not all the time.

[Farren]

farren started just laying down his opinions about others' opinions. it's gutsy. he's town for me now. can hardly believe it.

What's gutsy about it?

[Farren]

I don't think I want to see any lolhammers during this.

UNVOTE: redtea

[Farren]

I will not be surprised to be first elim here, especially considering if i am actually right and T3 is mafia, who for some reason protecting me (OMGUS exist and my case is reasonable i think), while his teammates attack me for some another reasons to protect him not directly. Atleast it looks like that for me.

It would be likely possible for flow+T3 team. Who is third is impossible for me to deduce. Sorry for that.

This post has a curious blend of self-awareness and lack thereof.

1: "will not be surprised to be first elim"
- At the time they made the statement, they had only one vote on them. Now they have three votes, so even if it isn't prophetic, it certainly points in the right direction. But it's one of those statements that tends to attract votes, I think - and thus can end up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. So maybe not as much self-awareness as I thought.

2: "OMGUS exist and my case is reasonable i think" - their case on T3 consists of post 283 which breaks down into meta (that cannot be explained) and that no one had gone after T3 yet.
- This isn't much of a case against T3. Assume Town|T3; why wouldn't scum go after T3? To pocket him. Because he's barking up the wrong tree. Because there's already a scum-friendly wagon or two. Because he amuses them. Because they think he'll dig himself a deep hole and be a perfect elimination for a later phase. Because he's a tough sell to exalt during a Heaven phase, making it more likely that a scum gets exalted instead.

It's definitely not a strong case. Granted, it's D1, so I wouldn't say it's completely unreasonable, but it's an easy case to poke full of holes, and it's a curious case to fixate on.

The post does at least express an opinion on flow trap, which is technically a response to my question even if not addressed directly to me. I'd like more, though - lots of other players in the game.

[Farren]

Last night when i saw the posts I briefly thought a dann/redtea/nsg team was viable based on thinking that there was beatlejuice going on to save redtea but on reflection of the above i dont think so. If redtea IS scum I think though the 2 have higher chances of being scum based on that event

hahaha, that is a completely backwards and paranoiac take

way, way

less likely than even individually a scumslip happening.

Does your statement apply to both of the takes, or just the first?

[Farren]

I'd say there's a difference between "this is a viable team, because of reason X" and "if A flips scum, B and C are more likely to be scum" - in degree, if nothing else. Especially if reason X is questionable.

Why is "if redtea flips scum, Dannflor / northsidegal are more likely to be scum" so completely backwards and paranoiac?

[Farren]

Dannflor: are you aware of how Judgment Day works in this setup?

[Farren]

Excellent. Then how does someone you think has a "diseased town brain" and comes up with a "crackpot paranoia theory" makes a good Heaven candidate, given the existence of Judgment Day?

[Farren]

Yes. Or scum reaches parity with the town and fools the martyred Town. That also makes scum win.

[Farren]

So people who don't care about how good a person's reads are *should* care if they're considering a Heaven nomination. Because it could very well end up mattering if we don't send enough scum to Hell.

[Farren]

No. I'm asking why Dannflor is proposing putting someone in Heaven that *he* thinks has a diseased town brain. That's suspicious if someone is familiar with the setup.

The bit about Judgment Day *isn't* listed in the rules in the OP. It's only listed in the wiki. So if Dannflor wasn't familiar with the setup, it's possible that he could have not been aware of Judgment Day - and with no Judgment Day, that sort of attitude would make sense.

[Farren]

To be clear: I townread you, Ich Troje. Not locktown, but town enough for D1.

[Farren]

i think putting town in heaven is more important than putting accurate town in heaven

and judgement day if it happens is far enough away that ich troje has a lot of time to work on {their} reads

{they} also mostly town reads me? which is like the only important thing

VOTE: Dannflor

[Farren]

You're avoiding my question.

What is your opinion on the matter? You're reverting back to mechs and theoretical situations about Dann, you were asked about directly how you felt about it.

Please repeat your question. If my previous statement wasn't clear enough, there must have been something else I missed.

[Farren]

Farren, it feels really badly like you're setting up to avoid voting for me D2 and planting excuses as well as pushing others to not do so either. Not sure what to think of it.

What I'm trying to do is figure out Dannflor.

[Farren]

There's 16 hours till EOD, you're not.

False on both counts. There's more like 40 hours until EOD, but even if there were 16 hours, or 6, or six minutes, that wouldn't matter - I'd still be trying to figure *someone* out.

[Farren]

I feel like I've explained myself as well I can

my ideal heaven would be nsg because I respect her reads the most but only if I can be very confident she's town

heavening scum makes this game very very hard

ich troje is currently one of my top town reads and that's really the only criteria i care about beyond them beyond town reading me

Why is them townreading you important? That sounds very much like a scum viewpoint.

[Farren]

I'm wondering if this is just Ich Troje trying to fake a crackpot paranoiac theory to see how I react to it.

[Farren]

But yeah the amount of things farren is just neglecting here is pretty bad

Do tell.

[Farren]

Is that independent of what you think my alignment is?

[Farren]

UNVOTE: Dannflor

Not really satisfied here, but it's effectively a vanity wagon at this point.

T3: what happened between 547 and 606, with regards to Enchant?

[Farren]

What I mean is: you made a confident statement about how to meta-read Enchant first, then said you "weren't totally sure" how to meta them.

Was it Enchant focusing on you that caused that change, or something else? If something else, what?

[Farren]

That sounds like an answer to the question "What's the meta-difference between scum|Enchant and Town|Enchant?" which isn't what I asked - you already said scum|Enchant was more confident than Town|Enchant. That's simple and understandable.

Something caused

your

confidence in meta-reading Enchant to change, based on those two posts I cited. What was it?

[Farren]

VOTE: T3

And just as a friendly reminder to everyone:

plurality elimination is in effect.

Someone is getting flipped no matter what.

[Farren]

im intending to switch to t3 regardless b4 deadline. I'm not letting a wagon farren wants get through

I'm on T3.

Granted, you could switch to Enchant. Or try to argue that this is all some sort of reverse psychology business. Or actually try to figure out my motives.

Or heck, I could make it easy and tell you my motives.

My homesite doesn't do majority eliminations. Default is plurality eliminations, and exclusively plurality eliminations - someone who reaches a majority will *not* be eliminated there; it's all about the deadline. As a result, deadlines can frequently be interesting.

That last period just before elimination tends to be filled with chaos in general; votes switch around frequently. And oftentimes, there are things to be learned there. Or, sometimes, nothing happens, and in the case of close margins, that's information as well.

Not a lot of opportunities to utilize that here. I'm not going to turn down that sort of informational opportunity.

[Farren]

Who all is here, or willing to admit they are?

[Farren]

Right now, we're at:

UNOFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

T3: 3 (Enchant, Esooa, Farren)
Farren: 3 (Ich Troje, flow trap, T3)
Enchant: 1 (Dannflor)
Esooa: 1 (northsidegal)

Not voting: redtea.

T3 got to 3 votes before I did, so T3 should be up for elimination.

[Farren]

(oh hey, that was a pagetop. Good spot for a vote count.)

The wagon against Enchant dissolved; flow trap and T3 switched over to me.

T3's switch is pretty predictable following flow trap's switch, and it makes sense regardless of alignment.

It also means that I no longer have a safety wagon of Enchant to fall back on, putting myself at risk if one more person switches over.

Despite Ich Troje saying they plan to switch, I don't think they will - if nothing else, because it shouldn't be too hard to figure out that I can in fact figure out the logical risks and consequences of switching my vote over - and if I'm putting myself at risk for this, reverse psychology probably isn't the reason why and that I'm genuinely okay with putting both T3 and myself at risk of elimination.
T3 can't switch without endangering himself even further than he already is.
Enchant probably won't switch.

Esooa and flow trap both could switch, or Dannflor / northsidegal / redtea could enter play and take a side or another.

Or who knows. I call it chaos for a reason - something else weird could happen. Someone else could make a last-minute push.

We'll see what happens, and no matter who ends up sent to hell, we learn something.

[Farren]

Who all is here, or willing to admit they are?

I want this on the front page. If you're here, speak up, even if it's just to say you're here and watching.

[Farren]

Should be noted here - if I switch to Enchant and T3 switches back to me, then all of a sudden I'm the first one to three votes, and I would be first on the chopping block - even if I then switched back to T3.

But now that that's known, actually doing the swap will give us more info about T3, while ensuring that if I die, everyone is aware of the implications.

UNVOTE: T3
VOTE: Enchant

[Farren]

And who knows? Maybe this will trigger someone else to come out of the woodwork and either express an opinion or change a vote.

[Farren]

Right now, if I had to put someone in heaven, it'd probably be one of Esooa or redtea.

[Farren]

Last few seconds!

Pedit> Hah. There's info. Worth it!

[Farren]

Oh yeah, twilight is a thing. I can post until flipped.

Hope you've got a lot of good explaining skills, Enchant, because that was a pretty scummy last minute vote there.

Last words: keep Ich Troje out of heaven.

[Farren]

Oh yeah, twilight is a thing. I can post until flipped.

Hope you've got a lot of good explaining skills, Enchant, because that was a pretty scummy last minute vote there.

Last words: keep Ich Troje out of heaven.

You know you werent being limmed here

I do now. I didn't then.

[Farren]

also after me yall 100% need to turbo farren into hell

Not happening if I have anything to say about it. Either of these things.

I do not risk my life like that as scum unless there is a significant reward outweighing the risk. T3 could easily have switched back to me, and I'd be dead instead.

The only way scum|me doesn't have to worry about that is if T3 is scum as well. In which case, that entire song-and-dance is completely unnecessary, and everything was faked.

And there's no way scum|me could fake that ending, unless *Enchant* was scum and in on it. The timing was too tight unless I know it's happening in advance. Given that Enchant didn't say anything until *literally* the last minute, and given that Enchant flipped Town - not possible.

As for you - no. Not how after you ended D1. If you're Town, I strongly recommend taking a step back and looking at things again. Because otherwise, this is not going to end well for either of us.

[Farren]

For the record: I am not advocating to be sent to Heaven today.

[Farren]

T3: Why didn't you switch back to me when you had the chance?

[Farren]

Missed that. Thanks.

[Farren]

VOTE: Esooa

[Farren]

these are the ramblings of scum desperate to explain their actions. You were only concerned with self preservation. Nothing else. If you were town who really thought I was scum, you let yourself flip there and then your town flip would be pretty decisive for that. But no, I do not believe you flip town here. And my town flip here will prove you are full of shit.

You're in full anti-spew mode and you know you won't be sheeped here.

Self-preservation? Seriously?

That is not a reasonable take, given what happened. This is a "making stuff up" level take, for multiple reasons.

1) If I'm concerned with self-preservation, whether Town or scum, I do not change my vote there. I even explained this at the time I did it - if T3 switches back to me, I'm in the lead. Putting myself in a position where T3 (the person in the lead) can kill me is the exact opposite of self-preservation. That's self-risk.

2) The only way I could "let myself flip" is if I self-vote, as I wasn't in the lead; I just put myself in a position where T3 could put me in the lead.

Self-voting would be *horrifically* bad play on my part. No one should ever, EVER eliminate the one person they know is Town, unless there's a mechanical reason that justifies it. There isn't here during Hell phases. There can't ever be.

I do not see how you can possibly, genuinely think this as Town.

[Farren]

I cannot possibly believe you can be this uncharitable towards me only because I have a scumread on you based on prior experience with you in a game where I initially misread you as well. You have no depth in play. You only react and make statements of fact rather than analysis.

You're almost definitely scum and you would need to bury another scum(even then, dubious based on the necessity to get towncred for scum in this setup) for me to believe this

I can be quite uncharitable to anyone who blatantly refuses to admit when they're wrong. Normally because I assume that the person is scum if they're just flat-out ignoring what happened.

The best bet not to bury myself was to not switch my vote in the first place. If scum with T3, I take a look at this votecount, this unvote, and I

don't shake things up by voting T3

. If scum with Town|T3, I don't switch over to Enchant when I can stay put and eliminate T3 instead.

Only react? Nope. Disproven by the vote on T3.
Depth of play? Not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm only Machiavellian when scum, and even then not always.
Statements of fact? Damn straight I do. It's necessary when people keep making false statements. And I will continue to do it, over and over if necessary, until people stop making false statements.
Lack of analysis? 593, 633.

That's all the time I plan to spend discussing myself today. As I said, I'm not pushing to get into Heaven - but if you want to keep at it, by all means. Your game. Play it how you want.

[Farren]

That's all the time I plan to spend discussing myself today.

[Farren]

That's all the time I plan to spend discussing myself today.

[Farren]

Wait wtf
I thought I was dying there.

When did you figure out otherwise?

[Farren]

Uh ... you voted in 796. Ich Troje and I didn't start interacting until 799 (them) and 814 (me).

PEdit> to T3.

[Farren]

Ah, I see. You didn't mean you thought you were dying at end of day. Fair enough.

[Farren]

Where is everyone?

[Farren]

Farren, when exactly did esooa switch to a heavenable read to you?

I can't pinpoint exactly where or when; it was one of those "There's a good chance I end up dead in the next few minutes; gun-to-my-head who do I think is most Town right now?" moments.

[Farren]

and also, why not heaven yourself?

I figure advocating for myself today is going to be a waste of breath. It's just going to cause a repeat of yesterday - real-time yesterday, not D1. Increases the likelihood of the thread having an overall hostile atmosphere, and that's never a good thing for Town.

It's the same reason I decided to disengage yesterday. Too many people not around for it to be all scum-related lurking; either it's a heck of a coincidence with RL issues, or people are actively avoiding the thread because it's isn't fun. So I'm assuming the latter and trying to do my part to keep it from happening again.

[Farren]

and also, why not heaven yourself?

I don't actually think this is productive btw

wanting to "heaven yourself" is completely nai and it absolutely shouldn't be anyone's primary focus

all statements come with an assumption you will want to cause.. obviously

but yeah that's just not gonna go anywhere

It's the same sort of deal as self-preservation, except in reverse.

Scum tend to lean towards self-preservation, as their team is hurt more by losing a member in a typical game.
Conversely, scum gains more by self-exaltation than Town does; one scum making it to Heaven is 50% of a scum wincon, while in Town's case, it's more playing defense.

[Farren]

I think my first choice for heaven though would be Dan

Why Dannflor? He's risen in my estimation, but I wouldn't put him at the top of the line.

[Farren]

I thought NSG was towny and the person who subbed into that slot is towny so far so her

I don't really know why Koba just feels like the default here

Because no one but me has voted for anyone else, and no one (including me) has strongly advocated for anyone else with a detailed towncase.

This is one of those gamestates where everything's in a fog, and my last attempt to break through that fog failed miserably. Favors scum far too much for my liking, but at least right now I don't know that there's anything I can do about that without doing a lot of damage.

[Farren]

UNVOTE: Esooa
VOTE: Morning Tweet

[Farren]

It seems most likely to me this came from a misunderstanding of what "diseased town brain" meant, no? farren seems to interpret it as "Ich is a tinfoil conpiracy theorist all the time" when Dann more or less was just applying it to the one read you made on Dann/NSG that one time as a reason to TR you.

If memory serves, I interpreted it as "coming up with bad reads," or something along those lines, at least in my head. The exact interpretation didn't really matter, though:

Okay, so why does Farren need to stop you in specific from getting voted in? Let's go over the context.. Farren has already expressed a townlean on you. Farren isn't saying you're scummy, he is contesting Dann's reasoning to have you go to heaven when he describes you as having diseased town brain

Also while im on the subject, you seem to have misinterpreted Farren as saying "I dont want that in heaven", when

he was actually saying "Why would you want that in Heaven, Dann?

"

This is an accurate paraphrase of the event, at least with regards to what I said and did.

[Farren]

HOLY FUCK it's deadline?

Well I'm not done playing this game personally so I'd probably vote Ich, probably town for basic reasons.. even if Ich is scum i'd rather have them eliminated rn then reeval anyway

My only concern being is that if Farren is in fact town, which I lean towards I guess not with total confidence but some, then we autolose judgement day

*ding ding ding*

If they're scum, then scum is one step closer to a Heaven victory - but we get some breathing room during Hell 2.
If they're Town, then you have precisely summed up the problem.

Except that there's an obvious solution to that problem, if it arises: eliminating me during Hell 2. Better would be eliminating scum, but we'd be in a 4v3 ELo; I don't like our odds in that world.

Or we exalt someone else. Problem: If we exalt Town, then I predict Hell 2 will be a redux of what Heaven 1 started as - which is not conducive to actually figuring anything out. If we exalt scum ... probably the same outcome, except it isn't Judgment Day when it happens, so there's at least some extra time.

[Farren]

T3, what's your evaluation of the gamestate right now?

[Farren]

Why hesitate, flow trap?

[Farren]

Scum don't win at parity. Parity triggers Judgment Day.

[Farren]

But if you're not voting for me because you're worried about triggering consequences during ELo, that tells me a couple of things.
1) You're not considering how Judgment Day impacts things, which means you're not voting for me because you want to force a re-evaluation during Judgment Day.
2) If you're Town, you're not 100% sold on scum|me.
3) If you're scum, you're worried about getting into a 1v1 with me, despite how D2 went down.

[Farren]

well i wouldve had to convince someone to vote mt with me anyway

Morning Tweet could have self-voted.
Whether or not she would have is a different question, but it was certainly an option for her at the time.

[Farren]

VOTE: farren

Obviously you have some opinions on the gamestate, given this.

[Farren]

Interesting set of opinions there.

Why the scumlean on redtea?

[Farren]

If PoE is part of it, that implies that it's more about your town reads. And lack of content is an understandable metric to use.

So what about flow trap? Why the townlean there? How would you compare flow trap's content to redtea's?

[Farren]

Perhaps you should read redtea's ISO, then.

[Farren]

Morning Tweet could have self-voted.
Whether or not she would have is a different question, but it was certainly an option for her at the time.

true enough
just because it's you- were you going anywhere with this?

A bit of reaction-fishing, but not one I expected to go anywhere.

3) If you're scum, you're worried about getting into a 1v1 with me, despite how D2 went down.

most people (except... mt? i think?) have flow as at least null, if not town. Do you think people's opinion of him would flip so quickly just from voting you (supposed awareness of judgement day or not)?

Scum|flow trap would have to worry either way - if I win the fight, he's eliminated; if I lose the fight, he has to not get murdered by Ich Troje in Judgment Day.

Although if he really wasn't thinking about Judgment Day, then it'd stand to reason that scum|him wasn't worrying about the consequences of winning the 1v1. Something to think about.

[Farren]

actually farren
i know you presented it as a "well technically, we can make heavened farren work by sending me to hell"- but is that something you actually want to do, or would you rather try to get scum today and heaven another town tomorrow, at least?

It's not something I *want* to do, but it's something I at least need to consider doing.

From a "fun" perspective: it sucks. It directly opposes one of my core concepts of playing this game - do not self-vote unless there is a *solid* mechanical reason. This reason isn't solid; it relies on things that I believe. but can't know with a 100% certainty.
From a "win the game" perspective: it potentially prevents an auto-loss if we screw up today - and we have three scum waiting to try to ensure just that. Granted, they can't just quickhammer without invoking consequences, but there's a high level of apathy in this game. We've had two wagons pass with only three votes out of five; if that sort of pattern keeps up, it won't take the entire team exposing themselves to influence things in the wrong direction.

[Farren]

*heavend ich, my bad

I took it as "getting my alignment info by flipping me", so good enough.

[Farren]

Scum me doesn't heaven Ich over MT because MT is tunneled on me.

Uh ... that sounds like a pretty good reason to exalt Ich Troje over Morning Tweet from scum|T3's POV.

Exalt Ich Troje: they eliminate me.
Exalt Morning Tweet: she eliminates you.

Granted, there's a counterargument that not exalting her means risking her trying to kill you today, but here she needs to get consensus, as opposed to potentially being able to make the decision unilaterally.

[Farren]

Gamestate#Reads???

Reads are part of the gamestate.

I would like to know why Ich would go "A locktown pushed someone I told them too, they must be scum"

1) You're not locktown.
2) Try "flow trap pushed someone I told them to, who then flipped green. Maybe the people pushing Farren were scum." Granted, it could go the other way - but it'd still be something to worry about. Far less predictable about what happens then.

No comments on what I said about Town|flow trap?

[Farren]

Pretty sure Ich said I was locktown

Well they also said you were locktown ig

They also said I was scum, repeatedly, and more recently. Regardless, though. If you are scum, you know I'm Town - and that my flipping will give them a strong incentive to re-evaluate.

As a side note - do you think you are locktown, or were you just saying that from what you thought Ich Troje's POV is?

[Farren]

Okay, fair enough.

Why redtea? Not so much "why do you scumread redtea" but "why do you think redtea is the best choice for elimination?"

Or if either of those statements I put in quotes don't apply, please let me know and we'll go from there.

[Farren]

I'm trying to figure out just how analogous to my position T3's is, if T3 is Town.

The last post I can see by Ich Troje that referenced T3 was that T3 was no to heaven, then upgraded to null. (883, 900)

I'm thinking not very analogous, given the relative disparity between their read on me and their read on him.

Only reason I can see that would justify Town|T3 doing this is if he's 100% convinced I'm scum and is willing to bet the game on it. If that's the world we're in, we lose.

Scum|T3 could be trying to get townpoints, trying to channel the behaviors of other Town. Or he could be trying to speed up the day to kill discussion and move on to the next phase. Or muddying the waters for figuring out who his partners are.

[Farren]

I'd also like to give Esooa another chance to weigh in before anyone ends the day.

[Farren]

Morning Tweet / redtea / esooa Town from most likely to least likely.
T3 / flow trap / Dannflor scum from most likely to least likely.

[Farren]

Just had a thought - I know Dannflor's pushing T3, but I also had it in my head that he was pushing flow trap as well. Was I imagining that? If not, that'd be some evidence against my theory.

[Farren]

What's got you confident in me being town, Farren? That's a question i'd extend to Esooa as well -- you both seem to have reacted to me pretty positively although we havent talked much about my slot since i joined and im curious

You entered in with a lot of energy and passion. I haven't seen any signs of BS or trickery in anything you've said yet. Nothing's set off any scumpings.

[Farren]

I do think both flow trap and t3 are scum yes

I am not very certain on the third atm

The nice thing is, if we're right about the first two, finding the third doesn't matter.

But it's still gratifying to the ego to figure it out.

When did you start scumreading flow trap?

[Farren]

Trying to justify anti-town behavior. (1152)
Wants to send redtea to hell. (1116) This seems to have lingered from the beginning, and other than an accusation of shade (1036), I don't see any recent basis for it. The accusation of shade itself - on initial glance it looked fabricated. On re-read, I can see how it could be interpreted that way, but it's still a stretch.

PEdit> False. 123, 250.

[Farren]

Trying to justify anti-town behavior. (1152)

"Trying"

Yes. Trying. Is this wrong, or was this a more subtle version of your shade comment on redtea?

[Farren]

honestly, I'm almost worried flow trap + T3 don't make much sense together and flow trap is the scum preparing for his flip

What about flow trap + t3 doesn't make sense?

[Farren]

All right, let's say someone did put flow trap at E-1 back at 203, and the team is T3/flow trap /?.

If T3 doesn't hammer ... I could see it being bad for them. If the team is exactly T3/flow trap/Dannflor, Dannflor could unvote and wave it off as not wanting to see a lolhammer at that point. (Or, in theory, T3/flow trap/northsidegal - but that requires Morning Tweet to be scum, which no.)
Otherwise, avoiding the hammer would probably require a Convenient Disappearance, which would be suspicious. Or waiting for someone Town to get off the wagon for the totally genuine reason of not wanting to see a lolhammer at that point.
On the other hand, T3 hammering - okay, that flips a scum. It's bad for scum immediately, but it could pay off later in terms of towncred for the Heaven phases.

So no, I don't see that being an obstacle to T3/flow trap being partners.

[Farren]

T3 is the scum you want to bus

If a flow/T3 team hells flow and has T3 still alive, they're going to lose. They need T3 to get heavened or live a while avoid a judgement. They'd lose.

Not if there's someone else around that could take the fall in a Judgment Day scenario.

[Farren]

Would you like to provide a reason why my paragraph is completely wrong?

"Completely wrong" is not a reasonable standard here. But we can take a look at it regardless.

Scum has more of an obligation due to their life being more important.

I don't think T3 voting Farren is scummy either, I don't see the point of pushing someone who isn't viable, and it makes sense that someone would push the most viable one otherwise it wouldn't be the most viable

. Tbh sometimes I make a read and forget why so I make up a reason that sounds like it could work only to remember later. I do agree that saying I don't do X as scum isn't a good argument though. Saying being bad at defending yourself could potentially fall under fallacy fallacy, so it would probably be better to focus on how they do what they do instead of what they do. The casual language and the short sentences are a good sign due to an unconscious bias when trying to appease someone to use "fancy text." They've already said they haven't made up reads, just "making up or greatly exaggerating reasons." To peruse this line of making up reads is likely misrepresenting what they meant.

Pushing someone who isn't viable can either help make someone viable. Ideally accompanied by a well-reasoned case. Or pushing someone who isn't viable can help the pusher reevaluate the read. (That works on people who are viable too.)

Casual language and short sentences are more of a stylistic choice, for the most part. I prefer the alternative, unless there's something urgent at hand (see: the end of D1). This also comes across as a veiled jab to me, given that it's how I tend to operate.

Seeing something lengthy show up in a hurry can be suspicious - could be evidence of staging. Other than that? Disagree.

"Making up or greatly exaggerating reasons" is one of the reasons why I scumread T3. Taking that as "making up reads" - it can certainly be a sign of making up reads. Granted, it could be a case of acting like Ich Troje - but to me, it comes across more as an attempt to make people think he's acting like Ich Troje. Especially since T3's playstyle and Ich Troje's playstyle do not seem to match. I would not describe this as "misreprensenting" - more like "A is evidence of B."

[Farren]

Think that was the point - justifying T3's vote as non-scummy due to my viability.

[Farren]

I'm trying to imagine what the Martyr PT would look like with Ich Troje and I both in it as 100% conftown.

Tickets should probably be sold. I'm not sure what kind of show the viewers should expect, but I expect there'd be a show regardless.

[Farren]

if I die here

don't touch esooa

I'm pretty sure farren is town but less confident

Why Esooa as a top don't-touch?

[Farren]

VOTE: Dannflor
This is a perspective slip.

elaborate

Nvm I misread the post.

Then where's the unvote?

VOTE: T3

[Farren]

So unvote?

VOTE: tedrea

Don't think this counts, on multiple levels. Morning Tweet had to prompt you, and the last time you voted by mixing up part of someone's name, pretty sure it wasn't counted by the mod. And the original vote was an E-1 vote to boot.

My vote stands.

[Farren]

Yes. Although I'm beginning to think I need to double-check my role PM, because I've been wrong about everything else; why not that too?

Which means major re-evaluation, and this is a lousy time to do it from a RL perspective. But I will make the time somehow.

[Farren]

redtea's outburst had the effect of getting the wagon off of T3 - which was a good thing, even if it didn't pan out. Why does that indicate redtea/flow trap/Esooa?

PEdit> to Morning Tweet.

[Farren]

V/LA

until Tuesday.

Quick catchup before then.

1392 - Imagine a giant carousel attached to a jet engine. That's pretty much the state my reads are in right now. Some of what Morning Tweet was saying earlier about redtea reminded me about read recalibration. 1) Take existing reads. 2) Lock in the highest person as Town. 3) Take the lowest person on the list, and assume that's a tunnel. 4) Start eliminating people in the middle. By those standards, scum is you+redtea, which totally does not make sense after what happened yesterday, so obviously that's dumb but damn it my usual methods are not working and it's driving me crazy.

1391 - I TR'd flow trap at the beginning, during D1.

1385-1386 - I think I suggested eliminating me at some point on D2? I know bloody well I thought about it, and pretty sure I suggested it, but no time to double-check.
D1 - I can think of one time in the past where I played that fast and loose as scum, and that was because one of my partners was the other wagon. Otherwise, at the time it would have been a stupid risk to take. Also, D2 - scum|me hammers Town|T3 at the first opportunity, given the gamestate; scum|me would be even less likely than Town|me to re-evaluate Ich Troje's capability for changing their mind, and I didn't re-evaluate their capability.

I had this gut feeling about Town|flow trap when I was reading through the MT/flow trap talk earlier, and I'm not sure how much of that is recalibration and how much of that is "no, there's something here" and how much of that is "no, everything is wrong! EVERYTHING! Morning Tweet / redtea is the team! I don't care if it makes sense; this game isn't about sense!" Then it's all no, that's crazy talk.

And none of this makes sense, and I'm tired, so I'm hitting submit and walking away. And there's that urge to edit things. no. stop that.

Too late; a sentence just disappeared. Made me sound like I was drunk, when no, just tired.

[Farren]

so this is redtea's general progression on farren > goes from putting pressure on farren > "who is gonna eliminate Farren D1?" > to town reading

on the surface that looks kind of partnery? says they would heaven farren in an instance but wants to keep them around for town

last phase they briefly consider helling Farren but I don't think helling Farren was ever a serious possibility. This is possible? especially if they thought Ich Troje would just kill Farren next with nothing to shake things up? I still feel like a team of farren/redtea/esooa doesn't feel the *need* to do what they did yesterday, but maybe that's a faulty basis

I'd figured sending me to hell during Hell 2 was viable, at least to start with. Things ended up shifting during the day.

[Farren]

it's also weird to push me on the basis of me "being in the center of everyone's PoE's"

like maybe I just don't play the same way as redtea but that's a very political reason to push someone over a personal scum read

which again points towards an agenda but eh

redtea's posting about T3 end of day made me feel like he never actually wanted my wagon to go through? I'm still pretty confused

I can see why you'd call it weird, but at least to me it makes sense - even if it's not for the same reason.

I've done things like that a few times in the past - not so much in the center of *everyone*'s PoE, but in the center of *my* PoE. Try to push a null-read instead and see what develops. It's one of those things I dislike doing because it just feels wrong - but it works more often than I'd like to think.

[Farren]

hey so I'm kinda noticing there was basically no resistance to ich troje's heaven at all. I mean, there was a little in the form of the MT wagon, but if MT is town that's... a little weird right? I feel like there wasn't even an attempted push elsewhere

but, people clearly thought there were other heavenable targets? as evidenced by redtea and farren's posts? and yet

so I'm considering a world where scum are perfectly okay with sending ich troje to heaven because they think they have good reads for whoever the scum team is

I'd been thinking along similar lines, although I was thinking from a more self-centered perspective (i.e. scum was okay with Ich Troje's exaltation because it set me up for a fall later). But this is another possibility - not because of who they were scumreading, but more because of who they were townreading.

[Farren]

I'm like 99% sure it's like impossible for MT and redtea to be aligned.

Do you have anything for this that's independent of Morning Tweet's shiny Towniness?

[Farren]

Spoiler: Here there be ziggurats

im not sure i even understand what i was doing that was suspicious in the first place

Morning, this gives me bad vibes, I'm too doubtful for this game

y

Did you just ask me why I got vibes from something?

yes?

u also mentioned a post of mine earlier being towny and this one is scummy and i have exactly zero idea why

you must realize that in order for this to work you've got to give some me some kind of insight into your mind

It's gut ;-;

Divorced of context, I can see how 1381 is pingy.

Like, say someone said that exact line when there was a wagon on them. Then it sounds totally different.
But the ... punch? isn't there without a wagon.

[Farren]

Thanks, Dannflor. I'll take another look at that once I catch up.

[Farren]

yeah i think i called this a diseased town brain theory

love ya ich

I laughed.

[Farren]

It's a little weird not exactly knowing what Farren and redtea's stances on who is scum today are

Lemme map this out

redtea -> flow/Dann ?
Dann -> flow/Farren/redtea ?
Farren -> ????
flow -> Morning/Farren ?
Morning -> flow/redrea

something like that.. Farren is sort of considering everything it seems like

Yeah, and doing a lousy job of it.

This is my last busy day; I should be able to actually do some digging tomorrow. The last two days have been mostly along the lines of "Ooh, that looks kinda Town" - and there have been too many moments like that for all of them to be accurate.

[Farren]

i legitimately searched "scumslip" in a bunch of my town games and I'm right at the top so much LMFAO

I was about to say that I played a game with you and don't recall people accusing you of scumslipping. But tea leaves and Isis were in that same game, which means that's probably the one.

I can at least confirm she was Town in that one, and that I don't recall her being as Townie in that one as in this one.

[Farren]

VOTE: redtea

That's

E-1

.

[Farren]

Partially that they've gone beyond their self-imposed deadline.
Partially that I'm sheeping you. Not my normal style, but my normal style isn't finding scum in this game. Adapt or lose.
Partially that I want to see what happens here.

[Farren]

What have you been procrastinating, exactly?

[Farren]

If it is flow trap / redtea, then this statement refers to flow trap himself, not to me.

I mean, if it is Farren Red, then they're gonna have to pull out the stops here

[Farren]

What have you been procrastinating, exactly?

A little thing called

Spoiler:

(っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ Everything ♥

(And by everything I mean isoing Dan)

Acceptable answer. Carry on.

[Farren]

Let's agree it applies to both of us being paired with redtea (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥

Can't argue with that.

[Farren]

Hm.

I was all set to say something, then realized that Morning Tweet unvoted and a bunch of it no longer applied.

Long story short, in Town|redtea world: I think if Dannflor is scum, he probably hammers that wagon? And if Dannflor is not scum, that means the team is exactly Morning Tweet / flow trap, which means that whole conversation earlier today was scum theater, and that sounds preposterous.

This is mitigated somewhat by Morning Tweet's unvote, though. How much, I'm not sure.
It's also mitigated by Dannflor's earlier comment about being afraid of Ich Troje earlier.

I almost put in a vote for flow trap here. Still kinda tempted to do it. But that feels like the same sort of thinking that resulted in me thinking T3 was scum, which makes me question it.

[Farren]

I suppose that question boils down to, "do I trust Dannflor?"

[Farren]

I don't do quickhammers, unless I'm scum and the fallout is worth the price.

(The answer to A is no. The answer to B is - if I'm scum, no; otherwise, yes if he's scum, but see A.)

I'd either declare intent, or just note it as a point of interest. Which - not sure. You'd have to do it to find out.

[Farren]

This is me not hammering. Not that that proves anything, but still.

[Farren]

Intent to hammer

.

If you've got last words, flow trap, get 'em ready.

Deadline's about sixteen hours and change from now. Don't wait until deadline.

[Farren]

Uh ... intent to hammer is pretty straightforward as far as the "what" is concerned. As far as "when" goes, I deliberately didn't state one - although deadline itself serves as its own hammer.

I'd put your reaction in the pretty scummy category - after all, if you're scum, there's no point in meaningful last words as if scum dies, it's game over for them. If you're Town, that means Judgment Day, and one last chance to win - and in that world, what you say matters.

[Farren]

I can't speak for Morning Tweet or Dannflor, but your chances of changing my mind are low and dropping by the minute.

[Farren]

If that's a woosh, then are you saying Dannflor is scum?

[Farren]

UNVOTE: redtea

[Farren]

Why does that not surprise me...

[Farren]

Hubris makes fools of us all.

[Farren]

I could say the same to you, if that's your answer.

[Farren]

redtea: are you voting, or stating an intent to vote anywhere?

[Farren]

How would that help? If you're Town and you die, you'll flip green.

[Farren]

How do you know that it does? How did you eliminate T/T as a possible combo, if you're a T?

Pedit> to flow trap

[Farren]

I assume you unvoted to see if i had something to say before i might end up hammered?

Yeah, that sums it up. And pressure didn't seem to do anything, so maybe releasing some of the pressure would.

[Farren]

Um, who would hammer red there? Morning?

If I knew the answer for sure here, I'd have the game solved.

[Farren]

If it's flow trap/redtea, why are neither of them trying to change the gamestate?

Inability to do so?
Paralysis?
Hoping someone would bring up this exact question so they can latch onto it as a means of changing the gamestate?

[Farren]

VOTE: redtea

[Farren]

While my "paranoia that redtea knows flow trap is flipping Town and is trying to distance from me to set up a win" just increased.

PEdit> No, I posted this just because you posted that.

[Farren]

The madness is spreading.

You/redtea, maybe.

[Farren]

redtea/flowtrap
dannflor/redtea
dannflor/flowtrap

At this point, not even considering Morning Tweet.

I think the last of those three is least likely.

[Farren]

Town|redtea should have hammered by now.

[Farren]

Le sigh. Recalibration was 100% the right answer. Take the top town read, top scum read, ignore 'em both, go for the middle. At least I ended the day on scum.

[Farren]

GG, everyone. Well played, scum.