Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

[redtea]

i gotta get to work and i've only read 5.5 pages, so im refraining from posting anything meaningful ("meaningful") until i catch up
just know i'm around and i'll be back in a few hours

[redtea]

VOTE: Redtea

Hasn't said anything towny

i actually lol'd ty

[redtea]

re:northsidegal's 128
is it because feels like it's one of those "i know the votes were from rvs so i'm going to act like i'm half-joking and see if people actually start taking it seriously, securing an actual wagon on town"?
on one hand i get it, on the other, i don't think that, considering the fact they were both literally page 1 votes without any posting from you, that's something they could pull off. Especially with a self-admitted maf-read playstyle (which isn't something i'm going to dig into, considering it's just an unhelpful kind of paranoia for me).
were you covering all your bases, or did you not think about that?

Farren's vote reasoning *may* give credence to that idea but it still seems sloppy to me, if it

was

maf motivated.

[redtea]

i thought you tr flow trap

[redtea]

i don't think the pressure so far is working but ill consider it

[redtea]

i thought t3's 152 was a joke until he expounded on it
the joke is that he's pairing himself and flow trap with someone with actual town vibes, northsidegal

i tr ich troje for 184 and that only
i'll wait to consider their solid flow maf read for now. just cause if believing a meta-based claim like that blindly isn't a maf exploit already it could become one
i would just do some meta myself but that's a one-way ticket to putting too much pressure on myself and dropping a game please do not expect it of me ty

I think Ich openly saying "yeah, the slip is NAI is towny"?

i had that thought for a second and then remembered i said that as maf once

i'm also going to keep your thoughts from 134 in mind for the future Dannflor, but i don't think someone avoiding getting buddy-buddy is maf indicative at all

[redtea]

I think I just need to schedule another paranoia appointment later. Maybe a recurring set of appointments.

me too bitch tf

[redtea]

i have like one other thought but it's not relevant atm and i don't want to derail. Ask if you really want to know

basically i feel that either flow is sloppy scum or a false flag, and he feels more like the latter.
it also takes me a while to feel out who's just goofing and who's maf and goofing, so that definitely contributes to weak early reads of mine. sorry.

[redtea]

VOTE: Redtea

Hasn't said anything towny

i actually lol'd ty

Great now read my other joke which is totally unique I think post 26 :3

that's why it's funny dumb dumb

[redtea]

Agree with the farren vote atp too

can you expand on this? partially cause i might have an opinion to contribute

[redtea]

nono i still have the thought it's right here in my back pocket
my drafts only go through so much editing i'm afraid -.-

[redtea]

Agree with the farren vote atp too

can you expand on this? partially cause i might have an opinion to contribute

yeah, they're in thread asking questions and taking stuff seemingly serious but they're not actually solving at all

so anyways VOTE: farren

yeah, okay
so my thought was
I also think Farren is playing it a little too easy. There is one way to look at his posts that would make me doubt he's maf, but for the most part nothing he's done is making me tr him. If someone's played with him before, any info would be helpful.
in other words, yeah ill throw them a vote
VOTE: farren

[redtea]

wow that t3 spam was awful

Kinda scummy too, he's being way more jokey than I remember as town, where he basically wasn't at all

Have people seen T3 play like this btw? When I played with him last I meta read like 4 of his games and I've played with him twice and I've not seen it. I guess since he didn't do it as a wolf before it's not super wolfy but it's making me uncomfortable lmao

haven't played with him before but otherwise same which is why i can't imagine t3 and flow trap would be on the same maf team imo

[redtea]

bc i dont want to be maf read :( for "trying to redirect conversation" :( by putting ALL of my thoughts out there at once :( my town game has historically been awful so stop questioning me :(
and also because it does give maf a chance to *actually* redirect the conversation and i wasn't sure we were done with flow yet. if we are cool bc *I* am kind of done

i mean if NOTHING happened between now and the phase change i'd vote flow solely based on weak gut feel but i don't have any concrete reasons to throw him to the hell hounds so

[redtea]

lmao wait that was meant to mean "stop hampering my attempts to improve >:(" not "excuse any maf-y looking action of mine pls im just bad at the game uwu" and i dont think that was clear adfkjasd

[redtea]

bruh why does that post have so many frowny faces lmao

you must not know my suffering

[redtea]

If flow trap is scum, then scum was being pressured - logical thing is that scum needs a counterwagon.
However, I'm one of the people that's townreading flow trap. I'm not a very good choice as a counterwagon in scum|flow trap world.

it does depend a little on how gullible maf thinks town is, doesn't it?

[redtea]

oh shit
i mean... saves me from having to catch up?
was i really hammered?

[redtea]

DON'T LIE

[redtea]

uuuuhh

[redtea]

we'll find out together

[redtea]

like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

uh HELLO?? because that's exactly what happens??? As you can see now??
anyway, besides the obvious reason when maf, I try not to lurk when town either because of. Exactly this. I mean any flip helps, technically, but it's not town-serving to make yourself look suspicious.

also i got prodded lol
i mean i guess i see what you mean, but i've yet to master the art of popping back in after 10 pages and a prod, and dropping a read just like that. I worry about being removed from the game before im done catching up.

[redtea]

omg i meant to to post 559 to my notes thread my heart fuckin stopped
at least it was my final edit of the post
i think

[redtea]

where?

[redtea]

im scared

[redtea]

well anyway, it took me 2 1/2 hours.
here's my trash.
when im done posting it in a semi-coherent order i'll look it over again and post a conclusion.

[redtea]

i see what dann means/is getting at
i was just gonna post something relevant to that sit tight

[redtea]

i would vote a lurker over a loose sr too but @ all the people sr'ing T3, especially based on meta, were you putting him off for the next hell phase? are you keeping him around as a for-all-intents-and-purposes-conf maf and hunting for others instead?

320
fwiw it

was

RL that got in the way, that and i hadn't even realized 36 hours had passed. In this situation personally I throw it in NAI if it's once or twice, but if they consistently don't make time for the game- or don't contribute well in the little bit that they post- I call it maf indicative.
i've been most active here when im at work lmao, so i think ill just stick around in the break room to post when i end up actually having a busy day.

[redtea]

You simple unchallenged for all day. Are mafia really dumb and giving some townie freetown pass, when there's huge chance for them being selected instead?

im not making a judgement here im just confused- what does this mean?

[redtea]

iche troje

having flow "locktown" makes no sense to me, and I don't remember... an elaboration? sorry if there was and i forgot lol. Pls explain

dann is giving tr's out like candy
so is flow trap

also

flow trap

unvoted me then voted no one else for a while what was that about

"redtea is wolf"
where

@esooa

additionally one person thinks im not partners with farren if im maf but you do(?)
so like what's that about you two

farren started just laying down his opinions about others' opinions. it's gutsy. he's town for me now. can hardly believe it.

seeing esooa in Fight mode completely flipped my opinion of her
am i the only one who got positive reads on her out of that wagon?
I know i didn't talk about her At All before as most of her posting happened while i was away (iirc), but everyone's already talked about her Weird Vibes by now.
even so, dunno why

farren

finds 385 towny
tho i guess he said "depends"

t3

's responses to enchant are....
interesting.....

Spoiler: on/re Dannflor

278
if Esooa's iso reads "from fiiiine to good", at least partially because you're unsure of where their reads are coming from- why didn't you ask her?
and your read on Esooa's tr of you doesn't seem to be informed by your general read of esooa, as of this post.

Like, you talk a lot but you don't say much, you know?
(i think someone says something to that effect later)

ive been nursing a paranoia nsg read since basically her entrance but i think that paranoia was bound to come up at some point this game so im not really giving it any credence until nsg gets a chance to play more

you and nsg both make me paranoid
had the same thought about nsg tho, not enough posts to determine
(update: LOVE the heat when pressuring Esooa, bc honestly the "wagons" this game have been weak. Can't tell you what alignment that makes her tho, haven't Condensed my thoughts yet)

something_Smart type player where you aren't necessarily going to come to any firm conclusions anytime soon but seeing every step of the process to even your mildest conclusions is vital for reading that type of play, at least for me

i concur with this, I think it sums up why farren wasn't a tr for me

i think dann asked me about flow trap or something
about why is he a false flag well idk everyone's tr'ing or nulling him now aren't they
unless you mean "who set him up to be one" in which case
idk bother me about that if i don't get back to it
it's a good question regardless of what you meant actually

[redtea]

im not reading you guys' new posts until i finish this btw

2.5 hours

this is why

I think its weird you start getting defensive after I out my reads list with you at the bottom while I'm pushing someone else mainly rather than when I had actually pushed you with a vote.

you've been verbally pushing esooa this whole time- i don't think a vote elsewhere evens that out.

[redtea]

for like 10 of his posts me and danfloor were like

[redtea]

ooh, it's so tempting to just live dangerously right now.

you been tempted to hammer too?

i'm pondering 559, which is a bit of a strange post. call this angleshooting, but i think that "notes PTs" basically always come from town. alternatively, though (and very much against my better judgement and against advice i consistently give to other people), i am pondering the hypothesis of that post as a genuine scum PT slip. yes, yes, i know, unlikely, almost any other explanation is overwhelmingly more likely to be the case. even still, like i said—it's a bit of a strange post.

you're not supposed to use the existence of a personal PT to determine alignment

[redtea]

ill also say i think i will make use of a personal pt for every game going forward, now. Beats putting posts into notepad

[redtea]

oh yeah lol im totally using it 80% at least to prepare posts. like i said, im pretty sure the one i posted on accident was the final form of that post anyway, since i don't have any after it in my pt with additions/subtractions.
ANYWAY

ill await your reads wall then, dann
and for the people i bolded to respond to me. If they don't, I'm gonna be mad, because it wouldn't be the first time people blatantly ignored my @'s. i WILL get on your case so please make it easy for me.

[redtea]

I'm 100% sure I saw something that said "do not use the existence of a PT thread to determine alignment" but fuck if I can find it.
That's why I felt safe venting about the mistake, but I'll just follow the "don't mention it" rule of thumb from now on I think

Okay this is the line at which we stop talking about it, and i'll stop responding about it and encouraging it
========================================================================================

[redtea]

ill get back to you farren

[redtea]

oh hold on
UNVOTE: Farren

[redtea]

idk why yall are harping on farren with 1 (irl) day left, and on a hell phase. Who's sending

farren

to hell day 1? no one here is who

[redtea]

you know, decide on who to send to hell first instead of wasting time we might actually need?

[redtea]

flowtrap #600
oh
mb thanks i guess
so you weren't ready to commit?

farren #633
definitely comes across as un-self-aware town rather than sloppy maf play to me. Maybe because I've been there after getting tired of being eliminated day 1, i unwisely said something to that effect, and was once again dropkicked into the bottom of everyone's reads.
I do agree it's possibly the weakest omgus case that could be made so far and im not sure where enchant got an impression otherwise

northsidegal #639
you know what, by "saving redtea" i thought they meant "save from a hammer" not "save from a scumslip", since the latter is more or less cleared up for everyone

@ich

is that what you meant, or

are

you talking about The Incident

@northsidegal

, it seems you don't see ich town and you don't know how dann got to ich town?
curious because personally i don't think a single post of ich's has had a bad vibe to me

[redtea]

actually you know what,

i don't care how good a person's reads might be, if i think they're town they're getting a heaven vote. i'm explicitly pushing for myself tomorrow regardless but if I have to compromise elsewhere that's my philosophy.

reads opportunist (I mean-

duh

, but not in a town way is what i mean), but since they've been holding back in general there could've been some kinda machinations about promoting themself as a heaven candidate (as a towny) for some time, for all I know

ich troje #683
now you're just being a wise guy

dannflor #601
i feel like farren brought up a good point that dann was dodging for a while- but this makes sense and is acceptable

[redtea]

okay nvm ich did explain their flow locktown read- I don't know what they saw that was so strong, but at least I found their explanation.

@esooa

i asked you about your wolf read on me, and farren being my partner

farren #657
this made me go "omfg good point"
maybe if they're the token paranoiac?
some people (including themself) have said they have better reads late game anyway, though i don't think that that's something dann thought about

[redtea]

VOTE: t3

Unpopular opinion.

is it tho

[redtea]

"so you weren't ready to commit" i was literally mia im so dumb
sorry flow trap ignore that

[redtea]

can't believe i actually got back to something after saying i would

farren started just laying down his opinions about others' opinions. it's gutsy. he's town for me now. can hardly believe it.

What's gutsy about it?

It felt like a direct challenge to the natural flow of the game, which as we know is subtly(ish) directed by maf. But not in a... "oh I need to post something Different now before I get labelled a sheep", but in a "hold on, no, I'm not giving this a pass" kind of way. Which I feel is kind of rarer to see in mafia, when the situation isn't a defensive or exploitative one.

[redtea]

i should add that "oh no I should post something Different" is something town realizes too

[redtea]

idk why yall are harping on farren with 1 (irl) day left, and on a hell phase. Who's sending

farren

to hell day 1? no one here is who

why shouldn't we?

im not talking to you until you respond to me sorry

[redtea]

bruh you want to say why Farren is your partner? I don't think I ever even said that so tf?

you know what i think i saw myself in your scum reads next to farren and my tired mind jumped to conclusions.
if there was no thoughts we were partners there, disregard it. You can talk about your read on me from when you posted that reads list if you want, but i assume it's not too relevant now

why can't i be fierce and not stupid at the same time

"so you weren't ready to commit" i was literally mia im so dumb
sorry flow trap ignore that

I didn't read that as an accusation in the first place

is this why people don't respond to me??

[redtea]

ich troje #724
tell me why you're pushing yourself tomorrow

[redtea]

What are your reads right now redtea?

town

farren
ich

undecided, not willing to send to hell

esooa
dannflooooor
nsg
t3

undecided but willing to send to hell, push comes to shove

enchant

mafia

flow trap

initially i wasn't going to have anybody in the "mafia" tier, but I have t3 and flow trap on the same spectrum in my head and after measuring the difference between the two, decided that out of everyone here, I can definitely see flow trap as "sit-back-and-watch" scum. t3 has not earned a town read from me, but where t3 seems like they just have their own brand of townplay, flow trap's play feels more like they're sitting on a couch throwing peanuts at us.

don't take this reads list too seriously, they're weak, as always i do try to keep things liquid-y in my head d1 (moreso than most), because d2 usually brings critical info for shaping my reads, as my playstyle biases are

just

too strong for me to go much of anywhere without that additional information.

[redtea]

i would heaven farren in an instant, for the record, if not for the fact i think he might be a critical player for town atm

[redtea]

that's my one strong read

[redtea]

i hate it when i forget to vote before deadline

[redtea]

i hate it when i forget to vote before deadline

Would you rather have had Farren or T3 gone?

oh my god read the thread

[redtea]

redtea, please, if you would, describe why you flipped your read. I think it can happen, as I did so myself, but your thought process is missing from the equation as well as the vote change.

see #715
to spell it out, farren could've been proactive-playing scum at the start- those were my feelings then. He's since stepped up his game and I don't think he's faking his scumhunting.

ich troje #724
tell me why you're pushing yourself tomorrow

I think you can answer that one for yourself.

nah im dumb

[redtea]

Spoiler: iche troje

farren came off as "sloppy" town in our mutual game where he flipped scum and I townread him for the exact same thing.

another player had the piece though and carried us after our death after we buried the first scum.

...but i don't read him as sloppy town? what are you getting at?

iche troje #831
i see what you mean by scumrange, but tbh this has a totally different vibe
someone else might pick it apart and explain exactly what i mean but imo either farren's scumplay improved or our farren is town

that post feels more like this game's dannflor than this game's farren. Exactly why i wouldn't heaven dann today

i wish this game was more explosive bc then there would be clear people who are like playing poorly but are obvtown that i could vote in lol

you're just describing yourself lmao
i still tr you but the thing is idk if i want you up there in a potential judgement day
i mightve said that before
if i have, it is quite solidified now
push comes to shove i will but id rather find someone else to send

[farren is] still scum regardless of the quality of my casing.

for you maybe

their EoD was faked to appear towny which is what they wanted - when you remove that one little twilight comment, the sheep's clothing comes off

what if we tabled this until next hell phase, at which point we consider voting t3
because he has dropped to "undecided, willing to send to hell, close to calling maf" at this point. The flip will be telling if nothing else, and hell phase isn't as risky a phase

also okay like I GET what troje is on about now with t3/farren partners because of end of d1. That *would* make sense in a bubble.
I don't buy it though
inb4 im partners with farren and t3

*turns on barbecue*

is it weird that this post made you move up a tier into a new "null tier" lol

why don't you wait for t3 to ACTUALLY do something, or im gonna start thinking you're partners

and what kinds of responses are you expecting from farren, exactly?
could you cut it out and talk about something else?

[redtea]

heaven candidates: me/flow/dann
not PoE for me so acceptable but eh: redteal

no: Esooa/T3
hard no: NSG/Farren

i

have

had a ass-over-teakettle flip on flow trap. Maybe it's heaven-phase perspective, but after a little time now, i think flowtrap is probably low-effort town and t3 small-effort scum

[redtea]

me and esooa mindmelding
'cept for dann heaven
then again i have one (1) person im confident sending to heaven and i don't want to this phase

Right now, if I had to put someone in heaven, it'd probably be one of Esooa or redtea.

sPicy

flow trap's play feels more like they're sitting on a couch throwing peanuts at us

This can mean a few things can you elaborate

my feeling on you has since changed but at that time I thought you're neutral in a useless way
i don't think you're particularly manipulative if that's what you were thinking

[redtea]

VOTE: Farren

You was played like fiddle, Farren.

T3 clearly told he didn't scumread you but voted anyway.

T3 feared elim and forced you to vote me instead.

Don't even dare to put him to heaven.

also, really confused how their posts imply t3 scum/farren town yet they voted farren
anyone know what im missing

[redtea]

also also fyi, since it was brought up, i AM into this game, I just can usually only get around to reading/posting about once a day.
i MIGHT be around a little more often since i'm off work for a little over a week, but zero promises

[redtea]

i don't think you're particularly manipulative if that's what you were thinking

well gee its like you WANT me to scumread you

[redtea]

this is what i mean
throwing peanuts

[redtea]

Redtea do u believe i townread farren lol?

...what? no?

[redtea]

why did NSG/me, redtea, and Esooa not join a wagon on D1? If Farren is scum that's probably important to figure out

I missed the deadline accidentally
if I had had the time for it, i might've seen if others could be convinced to vote flow trap.
otherwise, before enchant switched votes and t3 was at 2 votes, i would've voted t3.
afterwords... i would've asked enchant why the hell they voted farren.
if nothing changed after that, i had already stated I was willing to send enchant to hell, so.

[redtea]

as a completely off the cuff guess, how viable is a Farren/T3/redtea team

Farren and T3 already gone over since they seem scumread and also the wagon stall which seems odd that 3 people would just not vote

i wouldve iso'd some more before putting this out there- because it feels only informed by end of d1, and we don't need others taking advantage of an uninformed guess like this.

(had this thought before i finished reading MT's posts, still wanted to say it in case it's relevant In The Future)

or if redtea is town then like Farren/T3/Esooa i guess

This hinges on the ich/flow/dann townbloc u seem to have going being correct though which i dont have a perspective of

can't believe dann is townbloc but not farren
bad taste, all of you
if T3 and Esooa are partners- i don't have any experience playing with esooa, but i feel their playstyles itg aren't complimentary as partners, so i'm wondering where this comes from.
kind of curious on the "hinges on the ich/flow/dann townbloc" part

Oh Farren being scum doesnt seem as cut and dry as i thought, it mainly seems like Ich is convinced but im not sure everyone is

might've said this already but it reads tvt to me

[redtea]

we need a scum flip next phase because everyone but t3 is town and i can't read for shit for real

[redtea]

as a completely off the cuff guess, how viable is a Farren/T3/redtea team

Farren and T3 already gone over since they seem scumread and also the wagon stall which seems odd that 3 people would just not vote

i wouldve iso'd some more before putting this out there- because it feels only informed by end of d1, and we don't need others taking advantage of an uninformed guess like this.

(had this thought before i finished reading MT's posts, still wanted to say it in case it's relevant In The Future)

Huh? Who is going to take advantage of my slightly educated but mostly uninformed guess?

i like to do some guesswork before i actually read and give some rapid fire takes because i struggle to do that as scum, im a lot more deliberate

I suppose my philosophy is you do everything you can to display your mindset. I'm confused exactly what you mean by people taking advantage, though i may be missing something

considering it's heaven phase actually maybe my comment was misguided
i was worried about a wagon on farren/me. I can't say I'm experienced enough to say that that's something that would happen here (if it were hell phase), but the thought passed through my mind, since farren is still a bit of a hot topic.
like i said it's heaven phase tho so i think i was jumping the gun a little.

[redtea]

if I had had the time for it, i might've seen if others could be convinced to vote flow trap.

OMWUS :3

Idk if I even said my SR on you though

aw man

also rip nsg I liked her

also what do you mean I didn't vote a wagon day 1 I'm pretty sure I was on t3

still want him dead btw

same and same
is dann still your primary heaven candidate?
any others?

[redtea]

hm
I'm curious if MT comes up with any other candidates

[redtea]

That's where I remember you from! Hiiii! srry for flaking

[redtea]

would you further agree that, if you think that that is the wolfiest post in the thread, the fact that your initial reaction to what troje said about your meta was to imply that they were not up to date on it rather than to think that they were scum simply lying to push you somewhat indicates that you actually believe (or are informed) that troje is town?

1. esooa calls ich's post "the wolfiest in the thread"
2. the generous route is to say "you're not up to date on my meta, get your shit together." the ungenerous route is to say "you're scum making shit up. this doesn't even line up with my meta."
3. despite esooa's wolfy read of ich's post, she takes the generous route
4. so the question posed is: why is esooa, especially considering her meta, being generous and defensive, instead of firing back?
now that i'm laying it out, i don't think i fully comprehended this post at the time lmao
nsg kicks ass

i dont have anywhere to go with this im just being a helpful teacher's pet because i crave human interaction and have nothing else to do

[redtea]

My entire thought process used to be just gut tbh

so... what is it now then?

[redtea]

haven't fully read the last page but all these tabs are gonna crash my laptop and i don't feel like spending time unquoting myself, so im posting some of these now
they may or may not read a little out of order, sorry if so

It's easy to post a lot when you start with 39 pages?

you're just jealous she can do quantity AND quality
has literally done more scumhunting than anyone else in the game

MT is either high-effort scum the heights of which make slackers like me quake in their shoes, or town.
so unless anyone has something to actually say in regards to the former, mt is gonna sit right next to farren in my town reads

Morning Tweet is town for effort I think. That doesn't totally outweigh the meta case on nsg.

if you used mt's review of that just now as a summary, i know there was more to the meta case than just that which basically contradicted the original one. I

think

someone said their scumplay improved majorly over time?
not that I don't agree with you, but for completeness's sake

there's a sizable difference when i rep in as town versus scum but it's not effort-wise. This is my scum rep-in

The difference is whether or not im willing to constantly have takes versus keeping everyone mostly at "slight town" or "null". you can probably guess which one of those i do as scum constantly.

and MT brings it up herself!

maybe it's the fact i'm informed on your alignment reading that game, but your coverage there seems a lot sloppier than your coverage here. More just throwing shit out and seeing what people make of it rather than having your own internal consistency/thought train, if that makes sense.

[redtea]

MT #979
if im reading this right are you saying dann is dancing around t3 based on his post about people dancing around t3

MT #981
as to dann seeing more into nsg's post than there probably was- being ungenerous as it were- in my opinion, the ich/esooa blowup mirrors it. Ich was finding all kinds of shit in esooa that neither i nor anyone else (iirc) was seeing, or at least not anywhere near to the depth he was.

Is that something you've considered yet? Or do you have any strong thoughts about that interaction?

(add: i might go back and review ich/farren, similarly. Can you see why i don't want to heaven ich? lol)

T3 just gets scummier as I read though I have no idea why he's not being called out harder.

I know this is mainly about him/dan, but as for the others it may or may not be because it's heaven phase. Otherwise I know I'd be casing him right now.

[redtea]

well my only apprehension about heavening MT is that I want them in the game

That's pretty much all I've got for this day phase

it sucks having to basically carry out the same function as night killing your top town lol

there's no night kills so you just have to do it yourself

fucked up

very true
this mirrors my feelings about heavening farren. I guess i can't say much irt mt, as she's been, you know, reviewing, but if nothing else i think farren is enough to keep us on the "straight and narrow", and mt could be heavened today. i trust her over ich, anyway.
i wouldn't

dislike

the other way around, but that's how i'd prefer it.

[redtea]

[MT] has literally done more scumhunting than anyone else in the game

actually im doing nsg dirty by saying that. Same slot tho

[redtea]

Spoiler: Farren #1020

HOLY FUCK it's deadline?

Well I'm not done playing this game personally so I'd probably vote Ich, probably town for basic reasons.. even if Ich is scum i'd rather have them eliminated rn then reeval anyway

My only concern being is that if Farren is in fact town, which I lean towards I guess not with total confidence but some, then we autolose judgement day

*ding ding ding*

If they're scum, then scum is one step closer to a Heaven victory - but we get some breathing room during Hell 2.
If they're Town, then you have precisely summed up the problem.

Except that there's an obvious solution to that problem, if it arises: eliminating me during Hell 2. Better would be eliminating scum, but we'd be in a 4v3 ELo; I don't like our odds in that world.

Or we exalt someone else. Problem: If we exalt Town, then I predict Hell 2 will be a redux of what Heaven 1 started as - which is not conducive to actually figuring anything out. If we exalt scum ... probably the same outcome, except it isn't Judgment Day when it happens, so there's at least some extra time.

while this technically solves it, neither you nor i trust ich's reads

me and esooa mindmelding
'cept for dann heaven
then again i have one (1) person im confident sending to heaven and i don't want to this phase

To be honest it's kind of felt the same way for me

Like those thoughts exactly actually

including that person being farren?

[redtea]

I'm back for round #2. Will my Ich/Farren TRs + Redtea/flow TLs + Dann/Esooa/T3 team be torn to pieces ???

this isn't actual commentary i just wanna say this legitimately got me hyped to read your posts lol

[redtea]

[MT] has literally done more scumhunting than anyone else in the game

actually im doing nsg dirty by saying that. Same slot tho

what

i like nsg but what did she do this game?

idk go like iso her or something
or not and place your bets on MT on her own merits, that works too
i know you were paranoid about nsg but mt is like. Definitely a salve to that paranoia, know what i mean?

a case would be useful on a heaven phase but I feel like t3 needs a level of casing that goes beyond "oh look at these surface level scummy posts" if that makes any sense

oh yeah, that's what i consider casing in the first place unless stated otherwise.
um but.... useful during the heaven phase? would it really? in what way?
partially asking because wtf, partially asking because i know im not going to have the motivation to case until we're looking at hell's deadline so like don't expect me to before then

second of all, despite the confidence they display in thread, I am at least pretty sure troje is a smart enough player to reevaluate in heaven as needed. like if we get to a judgement day with only troje in heaven they will *have* to consider that scum was okay enough with them being in heaven to not heavily counter wagon them?

this is getting too wifom for me.
Maybe ich will reevaluate. Maybe.

Maybe.

But I can't say I

trust

them, and that's. Kind of important here.

[redtea]

also i keep forgetting you get 36 hours until prod in this game. Then i forget that 36 hours is only 24+12 so i keep going "surely it hasn't been 36 yet? I just posted yesterday evening right?"
uuh i think today's been dead because we've just been eager on your posts mt.

[redtea]

Morning Tweet is town for effort I think. That doesn't totally outweigh the meta case on nsg.

if you used mt's review of that just now as a summary, i know there was more to the meta case than just that which basically contradicted the original one. I

think

someone said their scumplay improved majorly over time?
not that I don't agree with you, but for completeness's sake

*not that i don't agree mt is town. I don't think the meta case on nsg was relevant anymore, even before the replace-in

[redtea]

omfg i forgot to vote again didn't i

[redtea]

well i wouldve had to convince someone to vote mt with me anyway

[redtea]

I was gonna post and then my internet crapped out. Phone posting sucks so I'll be back when my internet's back up

[redtea]

There may be some funny = town bias. Honestly I haven't really noticed redtea that much.

i consistently post in

giant unmissable blocks

there is no excuse except laziness

Essoa I have no idea.
You're mafia.
MT is town.
flow is town lean.
redtea is scum lwan.
Dann is town lean.
I'm openwolfing scum. ^j^

"farren is mafia" oh my god the disease is spreading

[redtea]

well i wouldve had to convince someone to vote mt with me anyway

Morning Tweet could have self-voted.
Whether or not she would have is a different question, but it was certainly an option for her at the time.

true enough
just because it's you- were you going anywhere with this?

3) If you're scum, you're worried about getting into a 1v1 with me, despite how D2 went down.

most people (except... mt? i think?) have flow as at least null, if not town. Do you think people's opinion of him would flip so quickly just from voting you (supposed awareness of judgement day or not)?

[redtea]

actually farren
i know you presented it as a "well technically, we can make heavened farren work by sending me to hell"- but is that something you actually want to do, or would you rather try to get scum today and heaven another town tomorrow, at least?

[redtea]

*heavend ich, my bad

[redtea]

Spoiler: re MT

MT #979
if im reading this right are you saying dann is dancing around t3 based on his post about people dancing around t3

Hahahahaha

It's just EXACTLY the kind of post i would make to justify keeping a scummy slot in contention but not directly suspect them. Cause you could easily just do the opposite and say "If T3 were town, I think scum would probably just townread/ignore him and let town murder him, then profit and win". I'd just use whichever one of those takes are more convenient to me -- it's a bit less likely id use them as town

okay. okay, i guess i can see how this level of abstraction still has something to say.

MT #981
as to dann seeing more into nsg's post than there probably was- being ungenerous as it were- in my opinion, the ich/esooa blowup mirrors it. Ich was finding all kinds of shit in esooa that neither i nor anyone else (iirc) was seeing, or at least not anywhere near to the depth he was.

Is that something you've considered yet? Or do you have any strong thoughts about that interaction?

(add: i might go back and review ich/farren, similarly. Can you see why i don't want to heaven ich? lol)

I recall Ich being like "Esooa you're not making sense SMH go in the scumpile timeout and think about what you did"

i also recall Ich clinging to a metatell on Esooa that was making Esooa pretty annoyed

It came across to me like Ich was confirm biased and sort of taking everything Esooa says as scummy (Kinda like how they do to Farren as well) which is something i usually associate with Ich's play in general. With Dann it's a lot more subtle. I think it's similar in that it's ungenerous though yea

So in ich's case, it's more or less nai on its own (now we know he's town). Dann plays more carefully, so being ungenerous is somewhat ooc as town. So the question is whether people are satisfied with dann's "nsg makes me paranoid in games in general" statements.
which would then lead us to look to see if dann has done something similar. And you brought up flow trap.
So the question to

that

is whether people are satisfied with "it was early game". Which, maybe if this were about a different player, it would be satisfactory. But the fact that it's dann seems, once again, out of character.
Is that the sum of it?

[redtea]

GOD no ones ever awake

[redtea]

so i don't forget to
VOTE: t3

that will probably stay there unless we go with the hell-ing farren idea
and if we don't, ill make my case

[redtea]

red tea doesn't feel particularly low content to me? That feels like a scum read because you *needed* to have another null/scum read in your pile

to be fair he basically said as much

[redtea]

i consistently post in giant unmissable blocks there is no excuse except laziness

Lazy is NAI

clearly

[redtea]

Im stuck on mobile again so I'll come back to the rest later

[redtea]

get a load of this guy

[redtea]

MT #1123
gotcha. Makes sense.
I honestly was probably gonna vote flowtrap for a possible heaven 2 before dann anyway (if neither you nor farren want to go again), but ill just cement that now.

When making that readlist there were players who I thought wre scum but wasn't sure why based on play so I exaggerated reasons.
There.

...and....you could've just said... they were mild gut reads

[redtea]

i consistently post in giant unmissable blocks there is no excuse except laziness

Lazy is NAI

clearly

Not true. Town!me is usually passive and blurts things out meanwhile scum!me actively engages with discussions. Also, town!me often will skim over walls andnot respond to them.

uhuh

[redtea]

making up reasons to supplement a gut read is only towny if there's some scumhunting strategy behind it, imo. Even then i don't think town does so so blatantly, except if they're new.
Whatever. What I wanna know is why flow trap is only bringing out the guns on what's effectively

d3

[redtea]

once again i wish we hadn't heavened ich
i suppose i only have myself to blame

[redtea]

UNVOTE:
well actually
fuck
why not hell farren then

[redtea]

tho ich might just as easily vote MT or esooa :/

[redtea]

okay nah im being dumb
VOTE: T3

[redtea]

UNVOTE:
well actually
fuck
why not hell farren then

Do you think there's a reasonable chance Farren is scum?

Otherwise I'm fine throwing out T3 and if he's town and Ich judgements town!Farren that's like 2 bad plays by town back to back (the first being all of T3's play)

Like I'm fine just throwing T3 out, this'd be a new low if he's town and I trust Ich will make the best decision they can... even if it's just doing Farren again. As long as they take some time to think about it and don't insta Farren than it's whatever

no, i dont lol
yeah okay. makes sense i guess.
would kind of want to see what farren has to say before we hammer tho

[redtea]

As for with T3 as a partner i think flow makes a little less sense, Flow like has T3 as their highest townread for a lot of the game but doesnt have any reasoning why. Not familiar with flow but I'm sooort of getting the vibe they goof off as town so maybe im a little more willing to buy that they're very low effort town rather than openwolfing scum

Still kinda same thoughts on Dann

Esooa could be scum playing to win through bussing T3 and getting Dann/herself outta here, i think that potentially could have been a viable path to victory esp with Ich's tunnel on Farren and the relatively low WIM this game. Maybeee.

agree that i doubt flow is t3's partner

esooa isn't voting t3 though?

[redtea]

Spoiler: MT #1176

Farren i definitely townlean........ do i think scum distancing with T3 or just scum being lazy and using him as a miselim...... probably the latter... i overall really think that end of day 1 as well as the start of today is just scum!T3 who is reading Farren whichever way is more convienent to him and failing to cover with any real reasoning

Like T3 literally decided Farren was town when he was on the chopping block and getting Farren's vote would save his ass, but today T3 has Farren as strongest scum now that Farren is the strongest miselim option

The really complicated interpretation is that scum!T3 and scum!Farren were doing crazy distancing theatrics D1 but somehow i kind of doubt it. I think this is what Ich's preferred view of the gamestate was, wish i coulda heard more about that. I think that team probably doesn't vote for each other, THEN decide to openwolf and move their votes elsewhere to get rid of a townie. i think they wouldn't have put each other to X-1 first, wait a bit, THEN do the openwolfing part. I also think Farren's posts of suspicion towards T3 doublecrossing him at the end of the day were fairly believable. I'd be pretty impressed if that interaction was done SvS

i'd be willing to believe tvt before town!t3 versus scum, personally

[redtea]

i want to see if esooa backs up her claiming of a solve before this phase ends

[redtea]

t3 is neutral for esooa at least, has a tr on you MT, i only kind of skimmed but honestly im not sure she has much in the way of reads...?? or at least none represented in votes really
more trs/tls than srs/sls

[redtea]

sl maybe on t3 idk about sr
seemed kind of vague

[redtea]

it's weird no one else has taken it upon themselves to hammer, or make an intention to vote.
i may as well ask, why you haven't hammered yet mt?

[redtea]

AND WHERE IS FARREN FOR THAT MATTER

[redtea]

spicy scum!flow take from farren
Is it PoE or?

[redtea]

you know what
you know what i had some posts ready
but no
fuck this shit
this is ridiculous

[redtea]

this is too much for my brain
VOTE: dannflor

[redtea]

we have 4 proactive town players me, mt, farren, and dann. in my experience a group that large indicates 1 scum among them.
This will give us THE tea on associations so we can solve this game.

[redtea]

*a group of proactive town players that large

[redtea]

if he's town we're in the same sticky situation as we would be if we vote anyone other than farren today anyway
if he's scum we heaven farren tomorrow and i will not hear otherwise

[redtea]

why am I scum, redtea?

why am i more likely to be scum than t3/flowtrap?

you're in the middle of the venn diagram of like every scum team guess.

i expect if you flip scum, next hell phase we flip flow or t3 then anyway. If either of them flip scum, we win. If not, the exalted town (ich, farren) have plenty of information to make their guess.

[redtea]

like it's kind of somewhat imperative that we hit scum today. It's not eliminate or lose yet but it makes the game a lot easier if we get at least one red flip today instead of going to judgement day

which really isn't the situation where you start hunting for deeper wolves

unless you suddenly have a very hard scum read on me but that's not what this seems to be?

i already explained my reasoning buddy boy. It's my practically fool-proof PoE method.

you and farren aren't aligned because farren's town. And if he's not, well fuck one scum in hell and one in heaven isn't the worst state to be in.

like it's kind of somewhat imperative that we hit scum today. It's not eliminate or lose yet but it makes the game a lot easier if we get at least one red flip today instead of going to judgement day

which really isn't the situation where you start hunting for deeper wolves

unless you suddenly have a very hard scum read on me but that's not what this seems to be?

we've been waffling on whether or not to eliminate one of the biggest trs in this game, farren, since before this phase started. Where was the concern then.

[redtea]

lmao

[redtea]

Redtea do you think there's a possibility that T3/Flow are both town? If not, what does this plan do for you that we aren't already covering by Helling T3?

i highly doubt it.
I think- I think personally, a flip of someone like dann is more telling than a flip of jokesters like t3 and flow. That's one benefit of playing that way is that it cuts down on making any good associations, imo.
Also the venn diagram reason i gave.
Also also I wouldn't have bothered if it weren't taking so long to hammer t3, and i don't know what to make of it, but it's making me crazy.

[redtea]

Redtea do you think there's a possibility that T3/Flow are both town? If not, what does this plan do for you that we aren't already covering by Helling T3?

Also did you choose Dann for any reasoning other than because he's active and Farren is an active town, btw

like i said, you're active, i'm active, farren is active, dann is active. I'm town, you're town, farren is town. I swear this is a method i've used in a game before and even if i hit wrong, there is almost never no scum in a group like that.

there's also the fact that literally nothing has changed in the game state since last time you posted

EXACTLY

[redtea]

REDTEA/FLOW/T3 im dying

look. look ich baby. if dann is town, flip t3. forget about farren. flip t3. im begging you. please.
there, happy???

okay look i've left a good pool of nonsense for yall to think over. Dann you keep asking questions ive basically already answered. Honestly my read on you is not that deep. Nothing personal, just business.
I'm coming back tomorrow.

[redtea]

if you REALLY want to vote t3 instead today show me some initiative and ill get back on the wagon, promise

[redtea]

okay actually one thing
The ONE reason I changed votes is because the game was stagnating. Like that's it.
Lots of talk and no votes.
That doesn't mean there isn't reasoning behind WHO I chose to vote instead (dannflor).

[redtea]

oh my god finally
VOTE: t3

[redtea]

bless you ich for not throwing the game
i thought we win if they chose correctly though i was so confused for a second

sorry to do this at an interesting time but

@mod V/LA through Sunday the 8th

[redtea]

I'm trying very hard to post some of what I have but my computer is being slow pls no prod ><

[redtea]

"i have like 10 more minutes until i *need* to post" i said
"i have time" i said

Spoiler: @flow trap

You had T3 as your strongest heavenable town but when pressed you said "Idk he seemed relaxed i forget"

And you said "lm*o yall are killing me this game" instead of pushing my response then

okay but like im pretty sure you were asked several times by different people over the course of this game. And how is this a town mindset. T3 was on the chopping block and you were like "i mean he's chill, you know?" up until the end.

Also, you say T3 is scummy for pushing the most viable elimination

there's a difference between reading someone as scummy for the person they push vs. how they read that person

Lol so you whiteknighted T3 because you thought I was scum

More like I felt it was a scumpush and yours felt the worst :3

this is kinda bizarre
i echo mt's "where was this yesterday"

the rest will be annoyingly redundant if i post as is so it'll be a little

[redtea]

*shows up late with jamba juice*

[redtea]

i'm posting the shit i was gonna two days ago first, then ill catch up.
the one (1) post i've read since 1388, is dann's right after that one. So take my word if you like that these are my thoughts from that time, except where noted otherwise.

Spoiler: @MT, on flow trap

flow trap #1362
flow has a point. He didn't event try to wagon ich. Could've too, considering ich thought they hammered an absent player.

MT #1363
flow trap was the first to vote though. He's the one who took initiative to pressure with votes, if that's what he were going for. Then unvoted when *others* joined to prevent a lolhammer. In this case he's in the right, this isn't scummy.

(add: MT sees this now; still don't remember there being an actual "push" on ich atp tho)

Spoiler: @MT, on my hell 2 behavior

I wonder if redtea's outburst yesterday means it's redtea/flow/Esooa. Cause actually T3 getting eliminated -> scum being judged -> this gamestate is really bad. Whereas if Dann died, that would have been potentially winning if T3 or Farren got elimed

i understand the strategy here, and maybe it's just my perspective of knowing my alignment, but. I don't see me leading my outburst the way I did if I were pushing for a dannflor elim

instead

of t3. I'm not confident enough in my own ability to sway town (as either alignment) enough to accomplish that just by saying "fuck it vote dann with me or lets hammer t3", and then peace out. If nothing else, I feel that that shows I was fully willing to eliminate either.
fwiw

they also suggested helling Farren so Ich would be prevented from judging him, a few times IIRC.

THAT WAS LIKE OUR FOOLPROOF STRATEGY TO PREVENT ICH FROM PICKING FARREN, THEIR TUNNEL SR, AT A POSSIBLE JUDGEMENT DAY I DIDN'T EVEN COME UP WITH IT

(08/11 addition: actually, im gonna need some explanation on this because this makes no sense. Judgement Day in this particular game apparently is not the end of it, whether the exalted make the right choice or not, right? So how would that win scum the game? With 1 scum in hell, none in heaven? And the exalted getting another chance to hell scum every time they reach parity?

from a town!farren scum!me perspective- as i honestly believed game ended at judgement day, this would make sense, I thought that would end the game. But if we're both scum, would i not *talk to farren about helling him before doing so? And thus learn the actual mechanics for this game? Why would I even bother to pretend i don't know, if those mechanics aren't inside knowledge or anything? And no one else was surprised by the game not ending it seems.)

oh my god finally
VOTE: t3

Oh by the way what did you mean by "finally" here, redtea? Since i mean, we were just restoring the T3 elim that was already going to go through and had only been delayed because of the counterwagon of ur own making

it was already being delayed, and probably would've continued to be if something hadn't changed up. i was worried t3 wasn't gonna get voted despite all around consistent sr's on him. like endless back and forth until it's the last day, people aren't around to vote, maybe scum's up to something, etc. upon reflection, i probably also could've gone "hey farren, mt, you both seem to sr t3, what's the hold up?" but that could've just invited more words on a topic already discussed extensively, and my head was already swimming with words at that point. i know that's just an excuse, but uh... honestly, what's a game if you're not having fun, yeah?
and i mean yeah there's plurality so it could've been fine (irt what we could only suspect of t3's alignment at that point) but who knows.

like i swear up and down it's not that deep

I *feel* like maybe redtea did that whole random push on me to

1. get the game out of the rut it was in, and 2. possibly as a reaction test for people

, notably to see how T3 might react?

exactly, this explains it well.
i wasn't charitable enough to think about testing t3 tho lol
despite my trs on farren and mt i was worried about why the wagon was stalling. Flow kept up his weird t3 "town feel" thing and wouldn't vote. Esooa was.. not here. Didn't feel right.

I'm also taking into account that redtea's reasoning for the push on Dann was fairly reachy.

you're not entirely wrong, but you know, if

I'm

maf, my method checks out all the same

Spoiler: housekeeping

D1 hell wagons at their heights (roughly):

Esooa: T3, NSG, Farren
redtea: Farren, Esooa, T3, Ich
Enchant: flow, Ich, T3, Dann, Farren
T3: Enchant, Esooa, Farren
Farren: Ich, flow, Enchant

you can consider me being on the enchant one btw, since i meant to vote him by end of d1

compiling these i realized i need to talk to, like, other players lmfao

[redtea]

@mod v/a through the 15th

im aware the deadline is coming up so ill still do my best to be present.

[redtea]

Scum instantly win the game if a judgement day is failed

omfg i was like "where are you people getting this information??? this

is

what the wiki says v.v

[redtea]

So you weren't faking that paranoia abt T3 being hammered then?

my answer is "no" i was not faking

(also what does TMling mean)

[redtea]

obsessed with this game state

[redtea]

honestly i don't know. i was just wondering whether i oughta.
this is the worst crop of players to be stuck with, when there's two scum amongst them. i mean that as a compliment.

On a cursory read, either someone is gonna make some saving throw for flow, or farren/dann are partners. I can't see either with MT. That's all my perspective has to offer.
I assume you unvoted to see if i had something to say before i might end up hammered?

[redtea]

oh my god stop posting i cant post my post

[redtea]

jk actually im glad ppl are around

[redtea]

Ok, Redtea isn't voting to make us seem partnered

Cause it will make it seem like it doesn't matter between Red and I but it does :3

okay rude

[redtea]

do you still think im scum?

if flow isn't

[redtea]

ah. i was just afk, sorry about that.

[redtea]

the more people talk the less clear this game gets for me tbh

this has been the gamestate since the end of hell2

[redtea]

Um, who would hammer red there? Morning?

If I knew the answer for sure here, I'd have the game solved.

lmao

[redtea]

farren could also, by lack of action

[redtea]

i think there were a couple of sentences of explanation missing in between flow's thought and mine there

[redtea]

flowtrap/me is a nonsensical take in the first place is why
this is me changing the gamestate

[redtea]

i feel rlly apathetic about it because even if we miss here i feel like ich troje has more than enough information to get scum

basically

in which case can i vanity vote farren?
VOTE: farren
just because dann's currently on flow and doing nothing about it. Makes farren being a partner slightly more likely.
no one jump on this please. if anyone does ill unvote.

[redtea]

actually wait no
UNVOTE: farren

[redtea]

okay just pretend my vote is on farren

[redtea]

i fucked up the quote lol

[redtea]

my paranoia of a redtea/farren team just went slightly up w that

you're welcome v.v

[redtea]

ich is online

[redtea]

I was thinking Dan+Red had potential, but when I isod them I didn't find anything scummy from dan

again, rude

[redtea]

inb4 mt is scum

[redtea]

rude

[redtea]

it was scary not knowing if ich was holding onto that farren read or not aaaaaaaa

Le sigh. Recalibration was 100% the right answer. Take the top town read, top scum read, ignore 'em both, go for the middle. At least I ended the day on scum.

it

was

the right answer. I was gonna make a post in response to that because it was really smart and then i was like... wait..

yeahhh sorry if you never trust me again MT

same
i liked playing with you MT

[redtea]

flow, all mafia is is guessing. It's okay to guess.

[redtea]

thank you mod!
also idk how to unprivate topics, or if all i have to do is link it lol

[redtea]

ugh oh my god it was so stressful that last dayphase having to be as cool and calm and apathetic as possible but at the same time REALLY needing to push flow over redtea

im so sorry work was on my ass and there were a bunch of posts i never got around to finalizing. i cant tell you how glad i was when i came into this thread today and it was just chillin

[redtea]

can I post "you're welcome" in thread after the flip LOL

im howling

[redtea]

wait that looks deadpan
i mean it that's hilarious

[redtea]

You brought a fun dynamic to the game along with ich. You and dann were fun partners

I also really wanna play a game with me and farren town sometime. His shit was spot on

[redtea]

finally figured out how to public my notes topic lol