[MT2225] Chrono Trigger Chronicles - The Rise/Fall of Yakra

[Roden]

I have a n0 cop inno on Roden btw

You're that paranoid of me now, huh?

I have a n0 cop inno on Roden btw

Actually I don't

Oh. Elim all liars.

VOTE: T3

[Roden]

btw never played Chrono Trigger, I see one of the knights of guardia is like half-sized in the flavor posts, is there a dwarf or something that would explain that?

Nope, and I don't think it's just flavor either. Could be a hint about one of the three "weird looking fighters". Innocent child, maybe? Or it could be something a little more obscure. Either way I'm not digging into potential PRs.

[Roden]

I would never speed elim you T3.

[Roden]

I would absolutely appreciate it if you didnt make this fakeclaiming a habit

I second this. It has not worked out well for you in the past, so please don't just keep doing it

I'm pretty sure everyone should be able to read him based off of his fake claim by now.

Also Luke I hope you're town because I've only ever seen your town games and don't know how you play scum at all.

[Roden]

@Angel Warriors

wait are you Nora?

[Roden]

Nah keep T3 around. If he's scum he'll eventually out himself. If he's town he's easy mis-elim bait. Either way he's good at catching scum regardless of alignment.

[Roden]

@Angel Warriors

wait are you Nora?

They're a hydra.

Ah, ok. One of the player lists had the slot as Nora instead so I didn't know if it was an alt. I think it got slipped who's playing the hydra, though I'm not entirely sure how hydras work.

I would absolutely appreciate it if you didnt make this fakeclaiming a habit

I second this. It has not worked out well for you in the past, so please don't just keep doing it

I'm pretty sure everyone should be able to read him based off of his fake claim by now.

Also Luke I hope you're town because I've only ever seen your town games and don't know how you play scum at all.

He has made the same fake claim 3 games in a row now (like, same role and everything), so I don't actually think that it is all that AI at this point.

Like scum T3 would 100% make the claim now that he can just point back at the other 2 games.

So, I am not saying it is scummy, but I do not think it is a reason to town read him

Oh, no what I mean is T3 will eventually make a genuine claim/fake claim at some point and we'll have a better grasp on his slot then. This is just RVS atm so I'm not assuming anything yet.

Also, hello!

Heyo.

I have only ever seen you as town so far as well. Have you played a scum game yet?

A couple, both Newbie games. First one was with T3 but we lost. Second was with BlurryX/JamesTheNames and we won. 2066 and 2070 if you want to meta me at some point.

[Roden]

Ah, ok. One of the player lists had the slot as Nora instead so I didn't know if it was an alt. I think it got slipped who's playing the hydra, though I'm not entirely sure how hydras work.

More than one player occupies this account

Noraa is one of them momrangal is the other

What does noraa bring in this slot do for you?

to put it very nicely, roden and I didnt get along in our last game together.

-nor nor bear

Yeah it was this. Though tbh I'm over that, Bulge is the only one I came away with a negative opinion of that game. I was mainly just wondering so I know whether to expect a death tunnel and to be able to react accordingly.

I have only ever seen you as town so far as well. Have you played a scum game yet?

A couple, both Newbie games. First one was with T3 but we lost. Second was with BlurryX/JamesTheNames and we won. 2066 and 2070 if you want to meta me at some point.

Will keep those in mind, if I decide to meta you later

Although, I am a bit jealous because I have had only 1 scum game (Newbie 2067) so far

Hmm...just one game might make it harder to notice scum tells. Then again, it should be easier to notice town discrepancie, so we'll see.

[Roden]

piece of advice: dont rep into newbie games. typically the rep outs are scum.

other thing, LMFAO when the fuck did pooky say that please link that lmaooo

-bearnor

It's been half and half for me (sample size of 2 lol), but I've also won both rep ins so it's been a good experience for me.

[Roden]

found it

T3 has one of the biggest set of balls on the site

Lukewarm do you have thoughts on the game at this point?

And roden i didnt tunnel you and have been over that with you multiple times I believe. You were reacting badly to a simple scum read and turned it into something that wasn't necessary.

-bear bear bee

Nora you literally admitted you couldn't explain your scum read on me right up until your rep out lol. You just didn't want to admit your read on me was bad, which was what I kept telling you and was conclusively confirmed with my rep in's flip. My reaction was bad, I'll admit, but I react poorly to bad scum reads.

[Roden]

Ok, so after some interesting discussion in the PT, I have some cool info to share.

I'm a mason JoaT.

My partner is a mason bodyguard.

The reason I am claiming is because we agree that their flip when I am targeted will confirm me and buy me an extra day, and we expect that I will not be the n1 target as scum typically avoids the "obvious" kill in order to prevent being busted by investigatives or preempted by protectives.

I will not flavor claim until my partner dies, at which point I will claim flavor and the uses of my JoaT shots.

You're not concerned about a Roleblocker? When I got JoaT in a different game, a RB was also in the mix and completely neutralized me.

[Roden]

found it

T3 has one of the biggest set of balls on the site

Lukewarm do you have thoughts on the game at this point?

And roden i didnt tunnel you and have been over that with you multiple times I believe. You were reacting badly to a simple scum read and turned it into something that wasn't necessary.

-bear bear bee

Nora you literally admitted you couldn't explain your scum read on me right up until your rep out lol. You just didn't want to admit your read on me was bad, which was what I kept telling you and was conclusively confirmed with my rep in's flip. My reaction was bad, I'll admit, but I react poorly to bad scum reads.

I'll add I don't want any bad blood here and would prefer if you didn't replace out because of me.

[Roden]

Lukewarm do you have thoughts on the game at this point?

Currently thinking that Roden is town, the unprompted links to scum meta feels townie to me

UNVOTE: Lukewarm
Agree on Roden.

I feel like scum!Roden is tonally different.

we expect that I will not be the n1 target as scum typically avoids the "obvious" kill in order to prevent being busted by investigatives or preempted by protectives.

Oof. I think I just got set up as the first NK.

[Roden]

Lukewarm do you have thoughts on the game at this point?

Currently thinking that Roden is town, the unprompted links to scum meta feels townie to me

how is that townie and also give me other reads please? I'm not interested in reading roden because I'll just get yelled at if I dont town read him.

-noraaaaaa

Scum vibes off of this tbh. I never said you couldn't scum read me and town wouldn't back down if they actually thought someone was scummy.

Nora you literally admitted you couldn't explain your scum read on me right up until your rep out lol. You just didn't want to admit your read on me was bad, which was what I kept telling you and was conclusively confirmed with my rep in's flip. My reaction was bad, I'll admit, but I react poorly to bad scum reads.

Ok, but it isnt Noraa making the push here. Defaulting to "Oh noraa you can't read me" isn't going to work.

-momma

More scum vibes. Why are both of you putting words in my mouth?

UNVOTE: T3

I've been told that vote is bad.


VOTE: roden

For 86.

Wanna clarify further here?

Lukewarm do you have thoughts on the game at this point?

Currently thinking that Roden is town, the unprompted links to scum meta feels townie to me

Wholehearted disagree.

I'm not verse on his meta but so far, quite a few slots are already towning themselves up.

He underwhelming, and so far is getting pushed lower and lower into the bottom of my list.

Also, he is clearly not a mason here

I'd love to hear your reasons why. Because right now it looks like you're scum trying to push a mis-elim that you can excuse with an emotional reaction to a previous game. You're looking for bias to protect you and that's not gonna work here.

[Roden]

inb4 no masonry.

Going by flavor, I think there actually are Masons.

[Roden]

VOTE: Angel Warriors

Serious vote.

[Roden]

Wanna clarify further here?

Nope.



112 solidifies my vote, though. That shade on Angel is hideous.

The nervous vibes being put out by Roden would make for a booming bass line.

Town has zero motivation not to clarify a read. Thanks for scum claiming, we can get you on Day 2.

[Roden]

"Nervous vibes on the first IRL day of Day 1 that also will go on for fourteen days" is not a real read or believable thought process.

[Roden]

Or... Angel and House are Masons.

Big oof if true.

[Roden]

"Nervous vibes on the first IRL day of Day 1 that also will go on for fourteen days" is not a real read or believable thought process.

I can't help that you can't handle already having 2 votes and your sad attempt at shaking them by implying you were nk bait was immediately laughed off.

Toughen up, chief.

???

What? Lol this can't be a real post. Unless you genuinely believe I'm afraid of getting flash wagon'd 24 hours into Day 1?

[Roden]

112 solidifies my vote, though. That shade on Angel is hideous.

The nervous vibes being put out by Roden would make for a booming bass line.

Ngl I want to elim roden solely because of his play style. I forget what the word for that is rn. brain fart moment.

however, his reactions to scum reads is absolute shit and I'm putting that very kindly. lay off a bit and see how he does because I assure you that he is only going to make your scum read on him twenty billion times greater if you dont give him a lot of space.

-nor nor bear bear

This mindset loses town games. Again, not a good look. Especially when I just FOS'd you for doing exactly what you just did here.

112 solidifies my vote, though. That shade on Angel is hideous.

The nervous vibes being put out by Roden would make for a booming bass line.

Ngl I want to elim roden solely because of his play style. I forget what the word for that is rn. brain fart moment.

however, his reactions to scum reads is absolute shit and I'm putting that very kindly. lay off a bit and see how he does because I assure you that he is only going to make your scum read on him twenty billion times greater if you dont give him a lot of space.

-nor nor bear bear

I know he scumreads me.

Pressure =/= actual scum read. Unless you think you should be allowed to coast because of a PR claim?

See? Angel and I obviously aren't partnered.

That's a PT exchange.

Now, move on.

This is the Mafia equivalent of trying the "Got your nose!" trick on a grown ass adult.

I think Lukewarm is scum if anyone wants to debate that with me. I think T3 and roden are scummy but I'm unwilling to look at them much at this point because their play styles are naturally scummy.

-bear nornor

Look at my scum games if you want to see my actual scum playstyle. I always play like this as town and play completely the opposite as scum i.e. play to be likable and be town read.

[Roden]

"Nervous vibes on the first IRL day of Day 1 that also will go on for fourteen days" is not a real read or believable thought process.

I can't help that you can't handle already having 2 votes and your sad attempt at shaking them by implying you were nk bait was immediately laughed off.

Toughen up, chief.

???

What? Lol this can't be a real post. Unless you genuinely believe I'm afraid of getting flash wagon'd 24 hours into Day 1?

Definitely not outside the realm of possibility, given https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=86996

If you're that antsy about votes as town, actually rolling scum = 10x worse on the old nerves.

This is weirdly smug for someone who isn't actually attempting to read me. Do you usually take everything at face value?

[Roden]

I'm honestly super easy to read and consider it one of my bigger weaknesses, but most people just don't bother trying to read me for whatever reason. They just vibe check a random post then park their vote.

[Roden]

I didnt bother to read roden's scum game last time, but he is actually right that his scum game is all nice.
a brief brief skim truly does show that he plays "nice" in scum games
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Roden, I get it. you're town but there's no reason to act the way you are. I understand that you think your scum and town games are vastly different but that doesn't mean other people can see it as clearly. we are sorting you in good faith and you gain nothing from lashing out at everyone.

I tried very hard to work with you in summertime. If you decide to treat me the way you did that game, I am going to be very upset. Please stop. I will town case you. Stop arguing with people and just think. You are engaging people that you think are town in such bad faith. That is not going to get you anywhere. Literally, they are only going to get upset and think you are scum. What do you gain from that? You gain nothing so please stop.

-beario

I play like this as town because I rely more on logic than vibes. I genuinely have trouble reading interactions and I'm not good at catching lies/reading intentions. But I'm fairly competent at catching people when it comes to their reactions.

In our newbie game I knew you were town and town locked you once I figured out your playstyle, and you almost read me correctly multiple times but our playstyles clashed too much. I genuinely believe we lost that game the moment you replaced out because Bulge wasn't bothering to solve. We both heavily suspected Italiano/Cabd and I think we could have Day 1'd him if we came together there.

Btw I don't actually scum read you. Your responses are actually pretty townie but I pushed to see how genuine you were. I think you're genuinely trying to read me here.

I'm honestly super easy to read and consider it one of my bigger weaknesses, but most people just don't bother trying to read me for whatever reason. They just vibe check a random post then park their vote.

You're not exactly giving me much to work with.

Who's scum? All you seen to care about is whining about my vote.

Get over it and scum hunt.

What do you think I'm doing?

Don't complain about my attitude if you're just gonna be rude and complain yourself. I don't know if you're actually town and it would be a bad play to blindly believe your claim.

[Roden]

I think I've hit a real sore spot with House. Reads like genuine town frustration though.

[Roden]

Also considering the activity so far and who's gotten invested, I think it's likely scum consists of largely passive players since they're just letting us argue. So I'm actually gonna cool it a bit because passive scum tend to lose if town doesnt cannibalize itself. That's all that playstyle can rely on if they don't want to try to run the town themselves.

[Roden]

Don't complain about my attitude if you're just gonna be rude and complain yourself. I don't know if you're actually town and it would be a bad play to blindly believe your claim.

What do you make of 89?

NAI but it's an easy town cred post if scum.

[Roden]

interesting. roden is now acting super towny. I'm inclined to go back to SR him again.

-indecisivenornor

So the thing is that seeing him blow up over a couple votes really reminded me of summertime.
then looking at his scum game was a real OH WOW moment there like wtf the contrast is insane.

I guess I'm worried because he's sounding too towny now. and I can easy excuse the blow ups by saying "oh well its directly targeted at me so I'll TR him by meta"
and mom thinks his reasons to SR us are total crap and I do trust in her reads a lot.
IDK.

-sucks

Fair assessment tbh but I wouldn't need to WIFOM you like that. I'd just play nice right from the start since you respond better to that. The fact Nora is being consistent with her reactions from before is what makes me town read your slot.

[Roden]

Don't complain about my attitude if you're just gonna be rude and complain yourself. I don't know if you're actually town and it would be a bad play to blindly believe your claim.

What do you make of 89?

NAI but it's an easy town cred post if scum.

I think scum would be more likely to grant an instant townread over a powerful pr claim because they lack the paranoia of not knowing my alignment.

Of course, my partner would also not have that paranoia, as well.

I was just curious about where your head was with that.

Normally I'd agree but it's T3, he himself has already said he town reads people no matter his alignment and I believe it's an honest admission. He'll make his alignment clear eventually, so I'm not looking too much into it atm. It'll be good to look at when ISO diving towards EoD though.

oh that's not wifom lol.

-bear beario

Not surprised I misused the term tbh.

[Roden]

"This head is giving me scum vibes and the other head is also giving me scum vibes, feelings are strong enough to place down a serious vote but oh! Btw I don't actually scum read your slot, I was just reaction testing"

Pressure takes different forms, and many things I say are not serious, especially when I claim that ​they are. I think people can and will slip up when they feel confident in what they're saying or doing, but you didn't. That's why I think you're genuine.

I don't want to give away everything about my thought process and decisions because then it won't work, so I can't really explain further.

[Roden]

You assume that I have to have meta on you to scumread you for some reason. I didnt have meta on Italiano and I plucked him out on page 11.

You are scumreading me for something you can't possibly know, you are not right next to me to tell me that I'm worried about posting lol, how would you if I had just posted like 4 times and you have no idea of who i am as a player. I don't believe you genuinely scumread me, you just picked up a fight with someone you thought it was a Goldfish and the Goldfish turned out to be a Shark.

This response feels fake. You're essentially mad that she didn't add a "IMO" at the end of her post when that should be implied with any and all reads. Nobody actually knows what anyone is thinking, they can only guess and interpret.

Again, I don't need meta on you to scumread you for what I have perceived your motivations and thoughts to be. I've explained how I came to that conclusion. You can choose whether to believe my thoughts are real or not.

And i don't, hence my vote on you. I've played this game for two decades now, I know a fake when they think they can get an "LHF" over.

Not today corazón!

Then why aren't you pushing her? All you're doing is arguing with each other but neither of you are making a case to convince the rest of us. You in particular apparently seem certain Kyouko is a fake, but you're settling to just squabble.

This feels like a fake argument.

[Roden]

This response feels fake. You're essentially mad that she didn't add a "IMO" at the end of her post when that should be implied with any and all reads. Nobody actually knows what anyone is thinking, they can only guess and interpret.

Then why aren't you pushing her? All you're doing is arguing with each other but neither of you are making a case to convince the rest of us. You in particular apparently seem certain Kyouko is a fake, but you're settling to just squabble.

This feels like a fake argument.

Orange

: When did I say that I was mad because she didn't say "IMO"? Don't put words in my mouth, thank you very much. What I've been saying and I will defend it with fist and teeth is that their read on me is fake, because there is no possible way for them to know that I was feeling afraid of posting. Afraid of what? This is not my first game, I didn't rand wolf and I'm a very effective wolf killer! I'm not afraid! I just have a life! Yesterday I was busy having a life with family so I just tried posting fun images and memes reacting to stuff, I do this all the time. So, why does it imply that me posting them equals to being afraid of posting here? Like who the hell do they think they are for them to believe that I'm afraid of them or any of you for that matter? Haaaaaaa! It both hurts my pride and makes me laugh at the same time, don't treat me like a noob please.

Red

I am pushing them but if you are waiting for me to make a case you'll be waiting because I'm not that type, in fact, I'm the kind of player that needs to be convinced of, I read cases, compare the thought processes with my own and then at night I mess wolves up. You open, I finish. You case, I terminate them. That is the deal here.

Orange

: You don't have to say you're mad, it's just how you're coming across. She never said she "knew" you were afraid but you're slipping that you were. All she did was read you and not only did you take the claim way too seriously, you've ultimately justified it with your response. Your post here pings heavily as AtE especially with your OMGUS vote.

Red

: Are you not actually certain that Kyouko is scum then?

[Roden]

This response feels fake. You're essentially mad that she didn't add a "IMO" at the end of her post when that should be implied with any and all reads. Nobody actually knows what anyone is thinking, they can only guess and interpret.

Then why aren't you pushing her? All you're doing is arguing with each other but neither of you are making a case to convince the rest of us. You in particular apparently seem certain Kyouko is a fake, but you're settling to just squabble.

This feels like a fake argument.

Orange

: When did I say that I was mad because she didn't say "IMO"? Don't put words in my mouth, thank you very much. What I've been saying and I will defend it with fist and teeth is that their read on me is fake, because there is no possible way for them to know that I was feeling afraid of posting. Afraid of what? This is not my first game, I didn't rand wolf and I'm a very effective wolf killer! I'm not afraid! I just have a life! Yesterday I was busy having a life with family so I just tried posting fun images and memes reacting to stuff, I do this all the time. So, why does it imply that me posting them equals to being afraid of posting here? Like who the hell do they think they are for them to believe that I'm afraid of them or any of you for that matter? Haaaaaaa! It both hurts my pride and makes me laugh at the same time, don't treat me like a noob please.

Red

I am pushing them but if you are waiting for me to make a case you'll be waiting because I'm not that type, in fact, I'm the kind of player that needs to be convinced of, I read cases, compare the thought processes with my own and then at night I mess wolves up. You open, I finish. You case, I terminate them. That is the deal here.

Orange

: You don't have to say you're mad, it's just how you're coming across. She never said she "knew" you were afraid but you're slipping that you were. All she did was read you and not only did you take the claim way too seriously, you've ultimately justified it with your response. Your post here pings heavily as AtE especially with your OMGUS vote.

Red

: Are you not actually certain that Kyouko is scum then?

Didn't get a response. Considering his recent posts, it's clear why that is.

VOTE: Guillotina

[Roden]

This response feels fake. You're essentially mad that she didn't add a "IMO" at the end of her post when that should be implied with any and all reads. Nobody actually knows what anyone is thinking, they can only guess and interpret.

Then why aren't you pushing her? All you're doing is arguing with each other but neither of you are making a case to convince the rest of us. You in particular apparently seem certain Kyouko is a fake, but you're settling to just squabble.

This feels like a fake argument.

Orange

: When did I say that I was mad because she didn't say "IMO"? Don't put words in my mouth, thank you very much. What I've been saying and I will defend it with fist and teeth is that their read on me is fake, because there is no possible way for them to know that I was feeling afraid of posting. Afraid of what? This is not my first game, I didn't rand wolf and I'm a very effective wolf killer! I'm not afraid! I just have a life! Yesterday I was busy having a life with family so I just tried posting fun images and memes reacting to stuff, I do this all the time. So, why does it imply that me posting them equals to being afraid of posting here? Like who the hell do they think they are for them to believe that I'm afraid of them or any of you for that matter? Haaaaaaa! It both hurts my pride and makes me laugh at the same time, don't treat me like a noob please.

Red

I am pushing them but if you are waiting for me to make a case you'll be waiting because I'm not that type, in fact, I'm the kind of player that needs to be convinced of, I read cases, compare the thought processes with my own and then at night I mess wolves up. You open, I finish. You case, I terminate them. That is the deal here.

Orange

: You don't have to say you're mad, it's just how you're coming across. She never said she "knew" you were afraid but you're slipping that you were. All she did was read you and not only did you take the claim way too seriously, you've ultimately justified it with your response. Your post here pings heavily as AtE especially with your OMGUS vote.

Red

: Are you not actually certain that Kyouko is scum then?

Didn't get a response. Considering his recent posts, it's clear why that is.

VOTE: Guillotina

I thought it was a rethoric question, it is obvious that i think ssbm could be scum but certain? Never.

That vote looks opportunistic.

Opportunistic how? I'm the only vote on you lol. If I'm scum here, then am I Kyouko's buddy or did I decide to take her side in a TvT?

I asked if you're certain because you sure seemed to act like you were, and you didn't seem to think "IMO" should be inherently attached to any and all reads that weren't hard accusations.

[Roden]

It's ridiculous to think ssmb and I are teamed

I have no clue why people even try that silly line, considering scum are huge fans of things like, "distancing" & "bussing".

Then ssbm and i should get oscars then because it this is theater, we are the best goddamn actors.

Not really? Day 1 scum theatre isn't hard to pull off when everybody is working with only baseline reads. Especially when early wagons don't usually last anyway. Now's actually the best time to try to pull it off with as few consequences as possible.

[Roden]

It's ridiculous to think ssmb and I are teamed

I have no clue why people even try that silly line, considering scum are huge fans of things like, "distancing" & "bussing".

Then ssbm and i should get oscars then because it this is theater, we are the best goddamn actors.

Not really? Day 1 scum theatre isn't hard to pull off when everybody is working with only baseline reads. Especially when early wagons don't usually last anyway. Now's actually the best time to try to pull it off with as few consequences as possible.

Hmmm i keep forgetting this is a two-week day phase game.

Spoiler:

This is not scum theater but you can be town for that assessment.

I think I need to let your slot simmer for now then.

Roden, gun to your head, am I town or scum, and why?

Gun to my head, I'll always say town unless somebody really slips up. If I'm certain somebody's scum, you'll know it because I'll case them and hard push them instead of just asking questions or pressuring them.

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

[Roden]

I believe third party is a possibility.

How come? I didn't see anything in the OP that hinted 3P.

I believe third party is a possibility.

how so?

Because this isn't a Normal game and I can't assume we don't have 3P. It's unlikely since I can't imagine what flavor would be used as a reason to include it, but it's not impossible AFAIK.

[Roden]

Oh interesting, we got Dwlee now.

Also we have any claims or anything yet?

Yes. You'll see it early on actually.

Guillo is town. everyone back the fuck off. last time I saw guillo scum, I caught him on page 10 or something. trust me on this one. Guillo is town. Period. this isn't what scum him looks like. I would swear it on my life legitimately.

-bera bear bear

This is a very hard defend on Guillo. I didn't expect that but since I'm town reading you and I don't think scum blatantly defends each other like this, I'll back off. Are you confident enough on this that we should basically consider him conftown?

[Roden]

Why did they claim that though

The only thing we should infer that I feel comfortable openly saying is that we don't have all the information. There's clearly more to the role reveal than House is willing to say and I think it wouldn't be helpful to town to speculate about it.

[Roden]

Also I think it should be noted just how apathetic RMH is to being wagon'd. It's NAI but I don't think we'll get any info out him if we just park votes there, even if he is scum. Does anyone have a real case on him so we can question him on things? Otherwise it would be a good idea to start poking at Kyouko again, Mastina too if Guillo is town.

[Roden]

Hi folks. Who are the baddies?

Angel but that's something my gut screams. I don't have hard evidence. It doesn't help I thought Noraa was in a hydra she wasn't in.

I tried checking your ISO to find what posts pinged you but I'm not finding much that wasn't from RVS or a different game. Is it just the slot's playstyle?

[Roden]

Hi folks. Who are the baddies?

Angel but that's something my gut screams. I don't have hard evidence. It doesn't help I thought Noraa was in a hydra she wasn't in.

I tried checking your ISO to find what posts pinged you but I'm not finding much that wasn't from RVS or a different game. Is it just the slot's playstyle?

It reminds me more of the last game I modded than their towngame.

I'm assuming their start this game is similar to how they started that game then? You said their early posts were scummy but ignored.

Hi folks. Who are the baddies?

Angel but that's something my gut screams. I don't have hard evidence. It doesn't help I thought Noraa was in a hydra she wasn't in.

I found their hard defense of Roden and Guillo to be strongly ++++++++++town.

Why? I find it whiteknighty myself.

Idk, Nora was ready to policy elim me and was ready to just not like me at all this game. If anything I think it looks like I'm WK'ing them.

[Roden]

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

[Roden]

At the risk of giving myself scum equity in case it is a red flip, I don't recommend hammering when we still have 11 days to go and we still have people trying to catch up.

[Roden]

I'd like some engagement on why AW is town considering I have an unpopular view.

They put in the effort to meta me and readjusted their read on me because of it. I think Nora specifically could've gotten away with just death tunneling me and leaving it at that since that would cause more chaos while earning herself a stronger town read, since that's exactly what happened last time we played together when she was town. This can change depending on how the rest of the game goes of course, but I don't think AW should be a Day 1 elim.

Does she still tunnel people as scum? Or does she play more conservatively?

[Roden]

@Roden, Skip Noraa's ISO in Pooky v Flavor Leaf and get back to me.

Emphasis on skimming but, yeah I see what you mean now. This is not the Nora I recognize. Granted I only played one game with her before so I didn't feel confident trying to meta her, and I don't think it's fair to scum read someone when they're trying to improve their town game, but this looks incredibly condemning. Gonna read more before I come to a decision but even the scum PT seems revealing.

Noraa should try to spam it up in an obv town way anyway and then everyone'll think she's town!

This was an oof but also an eye opener.

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

Oh interesting, we got Dwlee now.

Also we have any claims or anything yet?

Yes. You'll see it early on actually.

Guillo is town. everyone back the fuck off. last time I saw guillo scum, I caught him on page 10 or something. trust me on this one. Guillo is town. Period. this isn't what scum him looks like. I would swear it on my life legitimately.

-bera bear bear

This is a very hard defend on Guillo. I didn't expect that but since I'm town reading you and I don't think scum blatantly defends each other like this, I'll back off. Are you confident enough on this that we should basically consider him conftown?

Do you hardcore townread the Angels to consider their townreads as Confitown?

No, I wanted to see how confident they were in the read. They never answered though, which isn't a good look tbh.

[Roden]

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

I really hate the idea of wagoning Nora just because she

isn't

tunneling people against all reason, and it's possible because she's using a hydra and has a second opinion to bounce off of that she's reeled herself back this game. But it's page 20 now and I haven't seen a single wall post or tunnel or even a pounce. The AW slot in general doesn't seem to trust me fully, but I think a paranoid Nora would've done something about that by now to let us know just how paranoid she is of me. Hell, she voted RMH but hasn't shown any progression on that at all, since right before the vote she actually agreed with RMH that Kyouko was scummy.

I think Lukewarm is scum if anyone wants to debate that with me. I think T3 and roden are scummy but I'm unwilling to look at them much at this point because their play styles are naturally scummy.

-bear nornor

Well I did want to vote luke up until 174, but now we have Noraa Roden and luke town, House off the table but tbh I skimmed him as i was focused on reading roden/nora.

I think i understand the T3 votes but i dont know yet if I agree with them. I'd rather VOTE: Guillotina right now

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
"I understand where the T3 votes are coming from"
The.... 2 RVS votes?
VOTE: ssbm

Good catch.

VOTE: ssbm

Ngl. I think all of the reasons to scum read Kyoto are bad however I agree with the conclusion that Kyoto is scum. im inclined to towered t3 despite his reason being wrong because it sounds towny enough that he's picking at something super insignificant.

-Nor bear bear bear

Claiming the Kyouko is getting scum read for bad reasons but then still voting her anyway without giving any reasons of her own. This is so out of character for her and such a wild shift from my last encounter that I think I feel the same way she did when she meta'd me and saw my scum games.

[Roden]

If we get a claim I wouldn't mind hammering it even though there is time left. People can catch up at night : shrug:

Are you caught up?

No and I haven't read anything.

Oh god, you really do just play like this, huh?

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

What is the purpose of this post? As far as I can tell it's unrelated to any conversation thread and the last time Luke mentioned a T3 scum read was kind of far back.

I cant figure out what you're thinking here. For as much interaction as you have with quite a few people, and for as much as it looks like you're possibly trying to find scum, I was surprised to see you haven't interacted with or commented on RMH, except once in 439, where you softly defend his slot for a really bad reason. It doesn't occur to you that RMH is scum waiting out the pressure and laying low? It occurs to me that this is what's happening and it's your job to redirect the heat.

Why shouldn't he be a wagon?

Because nobody's defending him and he isn't giving us any content to work with. Like this is literally doing nothing. We got more content when I was being wagon'd and I'm town. Hell I'm fine with votes on me if that gives people stuff to say. My post isn't a soft defend because there's nothing in that post even remotely exonerating him or that could be seen as an attempt at town casing him.

I mentioned Luke's scum case on T3 because it got buried and I think it should be looked at more if people town read him. He's strong as town and I'm not the only one who thinks so, so his reads should be given a spotlight if there's a general consensus that we can trust him.

The only thing 456 correlates to is derailing the RMH wagon imo

I mean, yes. I don't think it's a helpful wagon to have atm unless we're feeling pretty good about voting out RMH. And tbh I'm just not seeing a strong case against him, nor a reason to end Day 1 early.

And the fact Luke's read is so far back indicates to me Roden was searching for anything to grasp onto

Luke's scum case is hardly the most interesting thing to happen in this thread and we both know that. No offense intended, Luke.

[Roden]

If you think I'm scum, vote me and get a wagon going. I want to see what other people think.

[Roden]

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

You weren't vibing with

my

response, but you voted

Guillotina

, even though he is the one you perceived as having a prideful reaction that could be fake, and coming from town.

So why Guillotina rather than me?

I don't know what you could possibly be trying to imply here other than me being scum partners with you. This is not a good response.

[Roden]

I obviously didn't know what was going on in Guillo's head. And you already had a wagon going that I didn't particularly want to join. I don't think I had particularly complex motives there.

[Roden]

I believe third party is a possibility.

How come? I didn't see anything in the OP that hinted 3P.

I believe third party is a possibility.

how so?

Because this isn't a Normal game and I can't assume we don't have 3P. It's unlikely since I can't imagine what flavor would be used as a reason to include it, but it's not impossible AFAIK.

Why bring it up then?

Just stating my thought process at the time. Not sure why that's being questioned since it does literally zero to aid me if I'm scum.

[Roden]

Actually what made you respond to that in particular?

[Roden]

Actually what made you respond to that in particular?

I don’t think it’s likely myself and my first blush response was to view the suggestion with skepticism
Thinking about it now I kinda regard it as harmless

I see, that's understandable.

If multiple people are confident on Luke being town then I think his read on T3 has merit.

I might be confbiasing currently reading up with suspicions on lukewarm. this feels super partner-y

At the risk of giving myself scum equity in case it is a red flip, I don't recommend hammering when we still have 11 days to go and we still have people trying to catch up.

what a way to actually cover all bases in one post. this post is super backtrack-y in a way that im not sure how to explain.

I'd like some engagement on why AW is town considering I have an unpopular view.

They put in the effort to meta me and readjusted their read on me because of it. I think Nora specifically could've gotten away with just death tunneling me and leaving it at that since that would cause more chaos while earning herself a stronger town read, since that's exactly what happened last time we played together when she was town. This can change depending on how the rest of the game goes of course, but I don't think AW should be a Day 1 elim.

Does she still tunnel people as scum? Or does she play more conservatively?

I hate this because it gives room to reverse his TR on us the moment its no longer popular/consensus. he knows that titus is someone thats played with me a decent amount(from her posts. she is directly metaing me) and hes asking her why which is a really easy entrance to the SR AW clubhouse.

-theangelnronor

How can I be partnery with Luke when you said you read my scum games? You would've seen that I either barely interact with my partner and/or just bus them if they're doomed anyway.

How am I covering my bases and backtracking? I never scum read RMH.

I'm asking Titus questions about your scum game because she's trying to case you and went out of her way to get me specifically to look at one of your scum games. If I wanted to give myself room to reverse a town read once it wasn't popular anymore, then why am I against the popular and easy wagon that is RMH? You just said I backtracked on RMH, so am I scum with him or not?

this looks incredibly condemning

hahahahahhaha. alright I will take a look at this old scum game of mine. you're totally bullshitting. this isn't what my scum game looks like.

I have not tried to pocket a single person here. my reads and thought process are clean as fuck. this aint my town game and I dont believe town ever takes a look at one of my scum games and thinks its "condemning" after a SKIM.

especially since you are a fairly new player. I dont believe town do that.

I have INCREDIBLY strong scum feels on roden right now. like INCREDIBLY no joke. let me take a look through this "condemning" lmfao scum game of mine.

I will go see how *CONDEMNING* it is.

-lolijustcaughtscum

This is just a reworded "omg you suck" lol. I'm looking at the same scum game Titus is using to scum read you so I'm not sure why I'm getting flak for looking at it and not the person who said to use it to meta you.

[Roden]

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

I really hate the idea of wagoning Nora just because she isn't tunneling people against all reason, and it's possible because she's using a hydra and has a second opinion to bounce off of that she's reeled herself back this game. But it's page 20 now and I haven't seen a single wall post or tunnel or even a pounce. The AW slot in general doesn't seem to trust me fully, but I think a paranoid Nora would've done something about that by now to let us know just how paranoid she is of me. Hell, she voted RMH but hasn't shown any progression on that at all, since right before the vote she actually agreed with RMH that Kyouko was scummy.

AtE ALERT.
NAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH i tunneled you because your play was bad.
also I dont do that every single game???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
mehhhhhhhh I dont buy that. nahhhhhhhhh literally nah. we haven't posted in like 3 pages and mom was the one that wanted RMH.
what's your point? and why would I be paranoid of you? its not like I've seen one of your scum games ever before. where is the paranoia from?

-nornorbearbear

Nora you are genuinely notorious for tunneling to the point that people other than me bring it up. My play wasn't bad either, I caught both scum but you kept disregarding me.

As for the paranoia:

I would absolutely appreciate it if you didnt make this fakeclaiming a habit

Also

VOTE: roden

Blatant scum, let's go grab him

-mother angel

interesting. roden is now acting super towny. I'm inclined to go back to SR him again.

-indecisivenornor

So the thing is that seeing him blow up over a couple votes really reminded me of summertime.
then looking at his scum game was a real OH WOW moment there like wtf the contrast is insane.

I guess I'm worried because he's sounding too towny now. and I can easy excuse the blow ups by saying "oh well its directly targeted at me so I'll TR him by meta"
and mom thinks his reasons to SR us are total crap and I do trust in her reads a lot.
IDK.

-sucks

I didn't expect that but since I'm town reading you and I don't think scum blatantly defends each other like this

................................................................................................................................................................

-mmkay

I'm strongly inclined to trust Noraa on this.
The town: T3, House, Angel, Guillo, Roden
The scum: Lukewarm, RMH

<33333 you didnt roll malefactor again right? promise me?

Guillo is LOCKTOWN. like 100% certainty.

roden i am still processing atm.

-bearbearnor

If none of this is paranoia then were you actually just certain I was town? Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you. Yet you're melting down just because I specifically think there's a case for you to be scum.

[Roden]

This is a bad reason to stop the wagon. It's not like the thread is waiting with bated breath for RMH to come and post - there's still plenty of conversation going about other avenues. We should be giving him a free pass to wait out the pressure. You're acting like his wagon is bad for the conversation but I see no indication that this is the case. If you see something that indicates otherwise, could you illustrate that? I'm having a hard time believing this is a real thought process.

What makes it a bad reason? Genuine question.

I think it's bad to park votes on a wagon and then do nothing to pressure or question the person there. We'd be better off using votes to pressure other people who will actually generate content, this should be obvious. Besides that, he got taken to E-1 then got threatened with an early hammer, how exactly is that a good thing for town? Could he be scum? Sure, and if he is then of course we should hammer him. But you don't even seem to have a case for him yourself, you're just going after me instead.

You say your post isn't a

"soft defend"

, because nothing in it exonerates him or town cases him, but that is exactly why I say it's "soft" - if you were town casing him or arguing against scumcases that had been presented against him, that would be defending or hard defending, depending on the intensity of your post, in my book.

You're calling it soft but you just described exactly why my post wasn't a defense. If you're gonna call something a defense, it doesn't matter if you attach "soft" to it, point out the actual defense there. Otherwise you're making an accusation with no actual basis.

I scrolled backward from your post to find Luke's read and it didnt look like a case, but maybe the case came before. If you wanted people to see the case though, I would expect you to say something like "If a lot of people agree Luke is town maybe we should be taking his case on T3 more seriously: <insert quote or post number here>". It just feels like a half-assed attempt to move the wagon someplace else because you dont want to appear too eager.

So I'm suspicious for bringing up Luke's case on T3 but also suspicious for not bringing it up enough? This is a reach tbh, it really looks like you're looking for any reason to justify going after me here.

If you were concerned more with finding scum than derailing RMH you would be coming harder at one of your scumreads. Right now though you're hedging between Angel and T3, probably waiting for one to take off so the pressure comes down from RMH.

...You mean how like you're hedging between me and RMH?

I'm not sure how this last part relates to what I said. If you weren't searching for it, then you recalled it, so it must have been of some interest to you if you remembered it.

Yes, I did recall it. That's why I...recalled it. Not sure what the "gotcha!" is supposed to be here?

I'm also not sure why you would say it should be spotlighted and that it's not very interesting in the same post.

This is purely meant to be a "gotcha!" moment lmao. Like this is blatantly just that. Does this make you scum read me then? This is another genuine question, because now I

know

you aren't being genuine with me here.

[Roden]

I don't think the interaction between you and Guillotina is genuine, but idk if it's both of you or just one of you. It's not guaranteed either of you are scum either even if I'm right, since I believe third party is a possibility.

What seems fake about it?

Guillo seemed ready to death tunnel you, and I wasn't vibing with your response. But I think it makes more sense that he was just super sensitive to getting scum read for the wrong reasons, not necessarily because he's actually scum but because he didn't think your reasoning was good. He claimed to be certain you were scum but backed down when questioned more on it, which made me think it was an emotional/pride thing. Basically I do think it's possible to be a fake response but for you both to be town anyway.

You weren't vibing with

my

response, but you voted

Guillotina

, even though he is the one you perceived as having a prideful reaction that could be fake, and coming from town.

So why Guillotina rather than me?

I don't know what you could possibly be trying to imply here other than me being scum partners with you. This is not a good response.

I'm implying that you're buddying me by taking my side of a TvT fight because I've already expressed a TR on you in 177. The question sounded rhetorical, but I do want to know: why Guillotina over me?

I obviously didn't know what was going on in Guillo's head. And you already had a wagon going that I didn't particularly want to join. I don't think I had particularly complex motives there.

Also it's wild that you think I would buddy you when you

just

accused me of hedging between AW and T3. You're not keeping your own logic straight here.

I obviously didn't know what was going on in Guillo's head. And you already had a wagon going that I didn't particularly want to join. I don't think I had particularly complex motives there.

Simple motives do not equal town motives. It's a simple idea to buddy a townie that is TRing you, especially when other town are currently voting that townie. It makes for good towncred later down the line after I've flipped.

VOTE: Roden

I think this is a step in the right direction. Sure RMH could be a scum PR but it could just as easily be the case that RMH is town and Roden is looking for towncred for being off and against the wagon, especially with the "at the risk of incriminating myself on a red flip" post. Sounds like an informed post to make - one scum could make in anticipation of the red or green flip that they know is coming.

Kyouko, no matter your alignment here, I need you to know you're setting yourself up to be voted out next if you do manage to mis-elim me. Because this isn't simply you being "wrong", you've flat out created a narrative here using your own assumptions to make previous assumptions seem true. This isn't a scum case. This is a

narrative

and it is 100% going to backfire on you because it isn't even a good one. If you're town you absolutely need to back up and reassess what you're doing before you start throwing.

[Roden]

If none of this is paranoia then were you actually just certain I was town? Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you. Yet you're melting down just because I specifically think there's a case for you to be scum.

none of that is even remotely paranoia. you aren't good enough/I dont have enough experience with you to be paranoid of you for any reason. and all the posts you are quoting are just me saying you are scum. how is that paranoia?

-norbearbear

Because you seemed unable to decide whether I was town or scum even after trying to read me. If you're unsure of what to believe, then that is paranoia.

Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you.

an interesting way to catch scum that isn't always correct. but scum LOVE to mirror town's reads on them. look what this scum is doing here.

-norbearbear

...You know this is provable projection, right? Because you scum read me in response to scum reading you. Lol.

I'm not sure why I'm getting flak for looking at it and not the person who said to use it to meta you.

"why me?!" scum

-nornor

You literally just complained that you got scum read. You opened up with a "why me". And all of your posts have become increasingly more AtE within just a couple pages. This isn't the 10/10 play you think it is.

[Roden]

Because it's strange that your entire read on me flips just because I'm considering a universe where you could be scum. I didn't say you were 100% scum and I didn't even vote you.

an interesting way to catch scum that isn't always correct. but scum LOVE to mirror town's reads on them. look what this scum is doing here.

-norbearbear

...You know this is provable projection, right? Because you scum read me in response to scum reading you. Lol.

Real talk, this is an actual scum claim. Nora just admitted to the strat she just used.

VOTE: Angel Warriors

[Roden]

But we have not SRed him in a while here so I dont see a valid reason for him to SR me here

an interesting way to catch scum that isn't always correct. but scum LOVE to mirror town's reads on them. look what this scum is doing here.

Nora: Luke is scum because he is reading me the opposite way that I am reading him

Also Nora: Roden is scum because he is reading me the same way that I am reading him

Additional proof of scum claiming.

[Roden]

Kyouko, no matter your alignment here, I need you to know you're setting yourself up to be voted out next if you do manage to mis-elim me. Because this isn't simply you being "wrong", you've flat out created a narrative here using your own assumptions to make previous assumptions seem true. This isn't a scum case. This is a narrative and it is 100% going to backfire on you because it isn't even a good one. If you're town you absolutely need to back up and reassess what you're doing before you start throwing.

um ok roden is confirmed scum here. I'll be casing this tomorrow.

summary of the case : newbies dont put on this much nuance in this short an amount of time. quoting my favorite imperium, "it's not possible"

-noraaaaaaaaaaaa

(bullshitting things as scum is much easier than getting this nuanced as town)

"He can't be this good as town if he's new, it's impossible"

Yikes.

This also assumes I'm a newbie to the game and not just to the site. So double yikes.

So what exactly do you expect to happen if you do manage to flip me first and I flip green? The reason I haven't auto locked both you and Kyouko as scum yet is that you're both being extremely short-sighted and it would be weird if two scum buddies both essentially outed themselves over a proven-to-be-false narrative. Surely if you're both scum you know you're getting heat Day 2. So I really do mean this when I say I want to know what you plan to do when this blows up in your face. You can't blame me here because you just admitted you think my posts are nuanced, so you can't claim I was playing poorly like you did in Summertime and that that's what threw you off. So how exactly do you expect to survive?

Even in the case that you're both town and truly believe I'm scum, at least humor the hypothetical that I'm town and now two townies look extremely scummy Day 2 after my flip. What do you do?

[Roden]

Also gonna just note that Nora didn't death tunnel ANYONE this entire game until it was pointed out that she hadn't even slightly tunneled anyone yet. Scum does that to blend in with their meta, but town would stick to their guns. Nora 100% is making an appeal to her meta.

[Roden]

I believe third party is a possibility.

How come? I didn't see anything in the OP that hinted 3P.

I believe third party is a possibility.

how so?

Because this isn't a Normal game and I can't assume we don't have 3P. It's unlikely since I can't imagine what flavor would be used as a reason to include it, but it's not impossible AFAIK.

Why bring it up then?

Just stating my thought process at the time. Not sure why that's being questioned since it does literally zero to aid me if I'm scum.

"Muddying the waters" isn't something I'd refer to as 'zero'.

I guess, but that's kind of a vague thing to say tbh. Saying 3P is possible shouldn't muddy the waters for anyone. If I'm 3P and people don't expect it then I just don't say it, and if I'm scum all it does is draw attention to me. Do you think it's scummy for me to say that?

[Roden]

Um ok its really late an im on my phone but i just want to say i mean no offense to guillo. I did used to hate your towngame though i am not discrediting you ag be all. Its been a while sonce ive played with you so im sure you've improved also i kind of need townreads rn so just stick to the tr lmfao

I legitimayelt think you are town and currently in a game like this i gain nothing from discrediting you as scum because i could just pocket you by deathtunnwling you instead. Why take a payh like this if i can get u miselinmed/get an easy tr from you?

Nornornorneornkr

Roden is schm claiming so hard i literally dont even know what to say. Lukewarm if ur town, u better come around tot his conclusion soon

What's my scum claim?

[Roden]

And then she leaves when I prove her case is bad because she doesn't want to respond. Ok lol.

[Roden]

I don't think I hurt or threatened anyone by saying a 3P can exist besides potential 3P itself and we both know that. We also both know scum would've ignored you here entirely here and that I just want to be right.

Kinda leaning towards {ssbm, Roden, dwlee}, ATM.

???

I can take or leave Dwlee, and Kyouko and I are clearly apprehensive of each other. It should be one or the other but not both of us in a hero solve.

[Roden]

Kyouko, no matter your alignment here, I need you to know you're setting yourself up to be voted out next if you do manage to mis-elim me. Because this isn't simply you being "wrong", you've flat out created a narrative here using your own assumptions to make previous assumptions seem true. This isn't a scum case. This is a narrative and it is 100% going to backfire on you because it isn't even a good one. If you're town you absolutely need to back up and reassess what you're doing before you start throwing.

um ok roden is confirmed scum here. I'll be casing this tomorrow.

summary of the case : newbies dont put on this much nuance in this short an amount of time. quoting my favorite imperium, "it's not possible"

-noraaaaaaaaaaaa

Just wanna say that if you're scum, no hard feelings here because I know you're just playing the game. But if you're town this is such an unnecessarily insulting thing to say, and I don't think you're mean. I don't care if someone wants to accuse AtE here, I just genuinely mean that.

[Roden]

I can take or leave Dwlee, and Kyouko and I are clearly apprehensive of each other. It should be one or the other but not both of us in a hero solve.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

However, the way you picked up the torch and started pushing AW that Lukewarm opened the door to when ssbm became a competing wagon with Robert is more sus than the original push by Lukewarm.

EBWOP. It's late.

Can you please read what actually happened. Titus was the one who specifically asked me to meta AW, it had nothing to do with the other wagons. I was town reading her before that. And I'd already questioned Kyouko before that as well so you can clearly see I already didn't trust her.

[Roden]

Hi folks. Who are the baddies?

Angel but that's something my gut screams. I don't have hard evidence. It doesn't help I thought Noraa was in a hydra she wasn't in.

I tried checking your ISO to find what posts pinged you but I'm not finding much that wasn't from RVS or a different game. Is it just the slot's playstyle?

It reminds me more of the last game I modded than their towngame.

momma bear you've never modded a scum game of mine. what do you mean?
also why do you SR me beside whatever you said about emotions?

-Noraaaaaaa

PookyTheMagicalBear vs. FlavorLeaf. Blade Dancer is my modding account now because my inbox is full.

Right now, I am trusting my emotions.

I'd like some engagement on why AW is town considering I have an unpopular view.

@Roden, Skip Noraa's ISO in Pooky v Flavor Leaf and get back to me.

[Roden]

AW I am actually BEGGING you to please explain why you think I'm crazy. Actually begging. Because you're refusing to look at the context of why I scum read you.

What exactly makes me crazy when I only tried to meta you because Titus told me to? I came to the same conclusion she did but I didn't even vote you, it was only ever a response and open thought process on what I was thinking. I don't see how town sees two people have the exact same read on you but you have completely different reads on them. I don't even know why Titus asked me to meta you, and if you town read her it's in spite of not knowing why she made that request.

And can you please stop insulting me? For real, I haven't insulted you once yet you keep doing the same. It's fucked up and you're making the game unpleasant.

[Roden]

AW if you respond hostile and unreasonable again I'm just voting myself and going quiet, you're making the game genuinely unfun and it would've been the second time in a row now that you've done this.

I said Kyouko could be town because scum wouldn't be that short-sighted and nobody listened to me. I said don't flash wagon people this early into the day and nobody listened to me. Now I'm apparently a scum read because having nuance and being right is a scum move lol. I don't really want to play if this is all I'm gonna get this game and town just wants to throw and kill anyone who doesn't sheep.

[Roden]

Dwlee isn't confirmed town just because of the DROO vote btw. I don't see why scum outs the fact they have an extra vote just to put Dwlee at E-3. It looks more like they're trying to scare people off their wagon.

[Roden]

Kyouko, no matter your alignment here, I need you to know you're setting yourself up to be voted out next if you do manage to mis-elim me. Because this isn't simply you being "wrong", you've flat out created a narrative here using your own assumptions to make previous assumptions seem true. This isn't a scum case. This is a narrative and it is 100% going to backfire on you because it isn't even a good one. If you're town you absolutely need to back up and reassess what you're doing before you start throwing.

um ok roden is confirmed scum here. I'll be casing this tomorrow.

summary of the case : newbies dont put on this much nuance in this short an amount of time. quoting my favorite imperium, "it's not possible"

-noraaaaaaaaaaaa

Given that 2 of the 3 are in or almost in the bottom of your list why are you uhhing me?

I think both Robert and roden should be dying before we even consider Titus. we should never consider Titus though, just in general.

Okay let's get Roden

the thing is that I think roden has gotta be town but I thought that in my last game with him. like his reasoning is even more insanely crazy than last game and Kyoto agrees but I'm paranoid that flips town and it looks bad for me.

I'd prefer taking the safe lim in Robert. I'd die before believing that flips town.

-bearbear

These are direct attacks on me as a person. If you don't think they are idk what to tell you because you apologized to Guillotina without even questioning his motives when he told you the same.

[Roden]

Also, in all intents and purposes here, we are scum in your town eyes so why resort to this begging and AtE when it would be our job as scum to be doing what it is were doing?

Because you aren't confirmed scum and I'm not death tunneling you? I'm trying to understand what you're doing and the only reason I haven't death tunneled you yet is the same reason I didn't do the same to Kyouko. She was acting way too short-sighted to be scum because she would be in deep shit once I flip green.

You're in even more of a precarious situation because Titus' scum read on you might as well be confirmed once I flip green. You wouldn't be able to save yourself afterwards because you know damn well Titus just pushes you out next. I think it would be wild if scum!you really did just try to 1v1 me because a one-for-one trade like that only ever benefits town.

[Roden]

Droo is absolutely 1000% a scum ability this game and the fact that it didn't hammer Robert yesterday points further in that direction.

Robert is all why me fry me and while, yes the wagon built up fast with alot of unexplained votes there are very important points that need to be brought up.

TITUS

the wagononics expert should absolutely look at this and make her own conclusions because I very much believe it'll help her habe some light shed on this game.

Robert is entirely focused on him being the wagon but d1.

T3 and kyuko were being wagoned early d1

Robert became the counter wagon TO kyuko.

The Robert wagon dismantled just as quickly as it built but they sat at L-1 long enough for the opportunistic hidden scum vote to quickly hammer him but it never happened.

As robert dismantled, the wagon quickly went back to kyuko.

The entire time, people were hyper aware of roberts wagon and the state of it, but the same thing wasn't given kyuko given guillotinas accidental hammer.

Its also important to note that nearly yhe entire time, Rosen never had Robert as a town read but felt the need to chainsaw his wagon, rather blatantly I might add, the entire time it was a thing.

I didn't think I'd need to say this, but I'm not against RMH being wagon'd or elim'd. When I made that post we had over ten days to discuss the game and question people, and assumed if we wanted to still wagon RMH afterwards we would've had plenty of time. I said let's wagon someone else because pressuring him did nothing at the time and it should've been obvious that wagoning him closer to deadline would be more effective.

But then everyone flash wagon'd Kyouko for no discernible reason. And currently I don't even know what the case on RMH even

is

, which is why I'm not town reading him. He's just Null and nobody seemed to want to explain why they wanted him gone Day 1.

[Roden]

You keep pushing that on us as if we should be worried, trying to get us to back down solely on that reasoning

Because I don't know what else to tell you. I don't know what your case on me is. You only ever scum read me when I don't play nice or town lock you, so I don't have a logical case to defend myself with.

And if we are wrong, where is scum hiding?

I'd like to figure that out but it's not gonna happen if you force me to focus on you and only on you.

And if we are wrong, where is scum hiding? I don't recall much content from you other than defending yourself, attacking your attackers, and making appeals to people

Then read my ISO. I correctly read Kyouko vs Guillotina for instance, since I said something about their interaction seemed fake and Kyouko admitted last minute that she faked her interaction with him.

[Roden]

Dwlee isn't confirmed town just because of the DROO vote btw. I don't see why scum outs the fact they have an extra vote just to put Dwlee at E-3. It looks more like they're trying to scare people off their wagon.

Can I get another opinion on this?

[Roden]

Droo is absolutely 1000% a scum ability this game and the fact that it didn't hammer Robert yesterday points further in that direction.

...

The Robert wagon dismantled just as quickly as it built but they sat at L-1 long enough for the opportunistic hidden scum vote to quickly hammer him but it never happened.

...

The entire time, people were hyper aware of roberts wagon and the state of it, but the same thing wasn't given kyuko given guillotinas accidental hammer.

Reread this post and I think these three points are actually really solid. Scum showing their hand with the unnecessary Dwlee vote makes me think that RMH and Dwlee are likely both scum just because of how the DROO vote has been handled.

[Roden]

Dwlee99 rage genuine. Alignment unknown

I think they're mad they got caught for the wrong reasons. Town!Dwlee doesn't rage this easily.

There is no way scum don’t use that vote to secretly hammer one of us. No, that vote placement there was to scare us, or it’s just a town vote. Is Droo guaranteed to be a scum ability?

If we can trust flavor, then DROO is a guaranteed scum ability because it's the sound Yakra makes.

I think scum would make that vote reflexively, especially if there isn't anyone on the team to warn the scum PR not to do that.

[Roden]

I think Roden is trying to frame me with the droo vote. He seems desperate that the vote be interpreted the way he wants, scum WIFOM, because that is how he was hoping the droo vote would make people react.

Why would I do that to you and not AW if scum!me is trying to get AW mis-elim'd?

[Roden]

I gotta say, i know nothing about Crono trigger.

https://chrono.fandom.com/wiki/Yakra

This might help a lot actually for figuring out flavor.

[Roden]

I think Roden is trying to frame me with the droo vote. He seems desperate that the vote be interpreted the way he wants, scum WIFOM, because that is how he was hoping the droo vote would make people react.

Why would I do that to you and not AW if scum!me is trying to get AW mis-elim'd?

That would probably be too obvious, or you hoped that I would get to E-1 without the Droo vote and someone would hammer by accident. The way you popped in to create your "Droo theory" was so scummy

Explain how it's scummy.

Also why would I do that and not just wait until you were actually at E-1?

Unless you're TMI'ing that the vote can't put someone at E-1.

Town!Dwlee doesn't rage this easily.

Also you don't know me wtf

Am I wrong?

[Roden]

Dwlee do you think I'm scum with RMH?

[Roden]

I think Roden is trying to frame me with the droo vote. He seems desperate that the vote be interpreted the way he wants, scum WIFOM, because that is how he was hoping the droo vote would make people react.

Why would I do that to you and not AW if scum!me is trying to get AW mis-elim'd?

That would probably be too obvious,

or you hoped that I would get to E-1 without the Droo vote and someone would hammer by accident.

The way you popped in to create your "Droo theory" was so scummy

Explain how it's scummy.

Also why would I do that and not just wait until you were actually at E-1?

Unless you're TMI'ing that the vote can't put someone at E-1.

I'm pretty sure you're the one that just TMId that?? Nothing I said implies that at all

Hmmmm...

Town!Dwlee doesn't rage this easily.

Also you don't know me wtf

Am I wrong?

Yes

Pedit: probably not? I don't know. If I catch evildoers I catch evildoers and who comes next is less important.

What's your reason for not suspecting RMH? I already gave my own initial reasoning but things changed.

Also wtf did you do to the coding in your post? The quotes are wonky and I can't fix them.

[Roden]

Yeah I'm pretty sure Dwlee is scum. If AW is town then they saw she was tunneled on me and considered me an easy elim. I have my reasons for thinking town!Dwlee doesn't randomly scum read me, poorly read me sure but if they were town there would be progression on that read.

[Roden]

If people have a hard time trusting me we can vote me or RMH first, but I'm thinking Dwlee's aversion to voting RMH + everything that happened with the DROO vote implies they're both scum.

[Roden]

Yes, if you sent in the droo vote before I got to E-1 someone could hammer by accident. If I got to E-1, a member of the scum team would have to be on to hammer in what would probably be a short time span as people leave the wagon when it hits E-1. Thanks for telling us it can't hammer though I guess?

I'm a sucker for his AtE and my main focus is on killing you now.

Then case me and vote me out. I'd love for both you and AW to have egg on your face if you both really are town.

Roden, seeing as you have zero completed games with me, you know nothing about my play. Acting like you do is extraordinarily scummy.

If only there was some way to look at a player's past games in order to analyze their behavior patterns...

[Roden]

Yes, if you sent in the droo vote before I got to E-1 someone could hammer by accident. If I got to E-1, a member of the scum team would have to be on to hammer in what would probably be a short time span as people leave the wagon when it hits E-1. Thanks for telling us it can't hammer though I guess?

I'm a sucker for his AtE and my main focus is on killing you now.

I'm sorry I just don't understand why town thinks this was my scum plan when the DROO vote was two votes behind of what you said I did.

[Roden]

The case is that Kyo spewed you scum, you came in prepared to push the droo WIFOM, and you TMI'd droo not being able to hammer.

I don't believe that you've read my games more than a cursory skim. I'm also obligated to say metabad.

Kyouko was proven wrong and has egg on her face in the dead PT. Quote where she spewed me as scum if you're so confident on this though.

[Roden]

Kyo do I just sheep your reads 100%?

sheep reads on roden and T3 100% -

RMH can be getting WKed by Roden here but the persistence by Roden indicates an important role perhaps. I think RMH and/or Roden should flavorclaim toMorrow if T3 asks it. Imo RMH should be the flavorclaim and if it seems scooby doo gucci jacuzzi then Roden gets the void, but it'll be up to T3.

AW I could be getting tricked by Noraa's tone

...What does this prove?

[Roden]

Kyo do I just sheep your reads 100%?

sheep reads on roden and T3 100% -

RMH can be getting WKed by Roden here but the persistence by Roden indicates an important role perhaps. I think RMH and/or Roden should flavorclaim toMorrow if T3 asks it. Imo RMH should be the flavorclaim and if it seems scooby doo gucci jacuzzi then Roden gets the void, but it'll be up to T3.

AW I could be getting tricked by Noraa's tone

...What does this prove?

Kyo told me to kill you and I'm abiding her wishes.

That's not a scum case or scum spew lmao

VOTE: Dwlee

[Roden]

"sheep reads on Roden 100%" die

What's the scum case/spew here?

T3 unvote me if you're going vla for 6 days.

Note that Droo can hammer me here btw.

If I get another vote*

I thought you just said I TMI'd how the vote works? So why are you preparing for a different situation?

[Roden]

Voting me here is a scum claim.

I genuinely don't mind going out first. Get the votes on me, build a convincing case. Maybe recruit AW to do it for you again.

Because I don't know how the vote works tyvm!

Then why accuse me of TMI if you don't actually believe I TMI'd?

What's the scum case/spew here?

That you're scummy and should die

Lol. Bye Dwlee.

[Roden]

"Anti-town"

Even though I was right about Kyouko and I told you guys not to elim anyone early. Lol. Show me where I'm anti-town and we'll talk.

But then everyone flash wagon'd Kyouko for no discernible reason.

lol now you're backing down on supporting that wagon yesterday?

-lol

Where did I support that wagon?

[Roden]

Then why accuse me of TMI if you don't actually believe I TMI'd?

You know this logic applies to you too right? Are you okay?

I /think/ you TMI'd. I don't know anything.

You think I TMI'd something about the way it works, and now you're showing an incongruency in your thoughts because you think that me saying it could hammer is illogical. It's only illogical if you know it can't. So which is it?

I didn't say it was illogical. I'm saying you're backtracking and pretending not to know how the vote works after you accidentally exposed yourself.

[Roden]

Nora I'd literally rather spite you and get us both voted out if you're going to go out of your way to throw this game for town. I want to go to the dead PT, see your confirmed alignment, and laugh as you crumble Day 3. I'm fairly certain I can catch scum this game, but you've made this such a miserable experience that I don't want to bother anymore. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you're just always like this.

VOTE: Roden

[Roden]

I'm serious. Everyone please flash wagon me.

[Roden]

I tried my ass off to work with you last game. I'm not doing that this game. I let you do whatever you wanted to last game and that's not going to happen again.
I'd rather be wrong than be forced to agree with everything you say.

-

No you didn't. You literally admitted you couldn't think of a reason to scum read me and still tunneled me anyway and then you got proven wrong. I'm not even telling you to agree with me, I'm telling you to actually play the fucking game but you literally refuse. You think RMH is scum and I'm telling you I will vote him and you'd still rather tunnel me. You're making this unplayable

[Roden]

841 has the context @Robert

On reread it seems even weirder because I thought Roden was saying it wouldn't be able to hammer but looking back it is that it can't E-1 which seems even more specific.

This is exactly why you look scummy. I didn't definitively say anything about the rules of the vote and it's clear that I didn't. I speculated about how the rules work and you somehow took that as me KNOWING how it works.

It's just wild to me that you started Day 2 off complaining that you got wagon'd for speculating about the NK, but then you scum read me for speculating about the extra vote.

[Roden]

If anyone can quote the exact line where I definitively say I know the rules of how the extra vote works, I'll concede.

[Roden]

You accused me of TMI that the vote can't E-1, when that isn't a reasonable interpretation of what I said. That goes beyond speculation imo

So you can't quote the line, you're just mad I questioned you then. A reasonable response would be to just say "no you're wrong" instead of "no and you're scum for even looking at me".

[Roden]

Unless you're TMI'ing that the vote can't put someone at E-1.

Okay I quoted it

This isn't me definitively saying I know the rules of the vote lol. Just admit you got mad and move on.

I'm pretty sure you're the one that just TMId that?? Nothing I said implies that at all

And here's my response

I had you as scum before this. I called you out for the way you reacted to the Droo vote and that's when you started going after me iirc

How did I react to the Droo vote? All I said was that you're not a confirmed townie.

[Roden]

"Nervous vibes on the first IRL day of Day 1 that also will go on for fourteen days" is not a real read or believable thought process.

I can't help that you can't handle already having 2 votes and your sad attempt at shaking them by implying you were nk bait was immediately laughed off.

Toughen up, chief.

I'm honestly super easy to read and consider it one of my bigger weaknesses, but most people just don't bother trying to read me for whatever reason. They just vibe check a random post then park their vote.

You're not exactly giving me much to work with.

Who's scum? All you seen to care about is whining about my vote.

Get over it and scum hunt.

Spoiler:

Subject: Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

he has been

Oop

Backing off like this is such a townie move I'd almost consider it a town slip

I wasn't going to comment on it because I thought it was self-evident on it's own, but did you read that as something other than "sorry you are so stupid Val, I shouldn't have expected you to play good like us SE slots." I can only assume there was a very surface level reading if it was taken as an actual apology.

Is there something townie about that?

Yes, what you described is exactly why I think it's a townie reaction. A lot of SEs are kinda predictable in newbie games, at least from what I've noticed. Arrogant/cocky/aggressive SEs have a town tell where they either get sweaty and try to solo solve the game, or they recognize they're getting too sweaty for a newbie game and back off. If they're scum, they're just manipulative because they believe they can easily trick newbies (which they actually easily can).

Nancy here seems to fit the mold for the type of SE I'm describing. If she were scum she wouldn't continue to be hostile to you while backing off, or reiterate how frustrated she is and specifically explain why she's frustrated. It could be AtE admittedly, which is why she isn't confirmed town for me. But I don't see how continuing to push the issue here could sort her further or progress the game in any way.

Subject: Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

I really need to hear fom Grandpa on what's in James' ISO that makes him think {Clark, Roden}.

yea i just came back with work...

expect like a complete analysis on james readlist on why i do expect its clark / roden in a couple of hours


tldr; this is manly based on james interactions with clark nd roden (the post that nancy pointed out of james) i noticed it from that and started quick skimming jame's iso and seeing their reads.

Oh, you actually are suspecting me. I guessed that was a typo because your earlier post said Chuck instead of Clark, and it looked like you were accusing Nancy of thinking that.

Either way, we've already been over this. For me to be scum I'd have to have hard bussed Blurry/James before the replacement even came in. Psyche had scum read Blurry first, but the wagon didn't start until I repeatedly kept bringing attention to Blurry and soft accused Val of trying to divert attention by arguing with Nancy. Even when James subbed in, I kept my vote on his slot and continued to pressure him.

It's not like I couldn't pivot out to another wagon either. Nancy had multiple people going after her and I'd already stated that I didn't trust Val's intentions at the time. If I was scum, all I'd have to do is completely ignore Blurry and help Val put pressure on Nancy. Literally all I'd have to do is shut up and James would likely still be in the game.

If you don't believe me, go look back at what happened. It starts around page 10 I believe. I specifically say that I think the early wagon on you was bad and that we should look more at Blurry.

Subject: Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

You guys terrified me with all these votes, I was worried someone was about to get hammered before I could finish catching up on posts.

Val, please don't self hammer, I genuinely don't think it's you. Nancy is town locked for me and your spat with her was so TvT it hurts.

Scum is between Clark and Grandpa,100%. I'm not voting Val and if Clark continues to push him I'll vote Clark today. I've been leaning more towards Grandpa as the game goes on but I'm convinced that any push on Val has to be scum motivated. I don't believe even Nancy votes Val in a F3 scenario and scum likely believes the same.

Look how passive all of this is.

Roden is just town here. He's frustrating people, I understand but town.

-bear beraio

That's all well and good, but he needs to learn that focusing on defending himself instead of actually trying to find scum isn't going to be a productive tactic, especially when he's in no active danger of being eliminated.

It's 2 votes. His focus should be on who is scum, not who is voting him on early d1 for reasons that are obviously going to be flimsy (as all votes are going to be flimsy at this stage).

I do think it's funny that I yelled at for reacting to votes on me during RVS, but then AW and Dwlee both got super defensive and scum read me solely because I didn't insta town lock them.

[Roden]

I'm pretty sure you're better than this, dude.

I have already stopped voting you, and was actaully in the middle of doing meta work on Nora to see if a potential meta tell holds any water (and so far I have looked at 3 games and it is holding true so far) so was likely to move back to Noraa soon.

But this sure does feel like a scum line

Burden of proficiency fallacy.

[Roden]

Nora I'd literally rather spite you and get us both voted out if you're going to go out of your way to throw this game for town. I want to go to the dead PT, see your confirmed alignment, and laugh as you crumble Day 3. I'm fairly certain I can catch scum this game, but you've made this such a miserable experience that I don't want to bother anymore. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you're just always like this.

VOTE: Roden

Roden stop. Unvote now!

White knight alert.

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

[Roden]

Idk why Roden is in there.

VOTE: roden

Bad Luke.

Lots and lots of ate this day phase.

Also, did not like his interaction with Dwlee. Hate post 940 in particular.

And then the self vote. Which is bad. But also, it happened 9 hours and 9 posts ago. So the fact that it is still there concerns me doubly so. Like, it is no longer a "flash of anger" self vote. It is a choice.

So he is either a townie who should be policy voted for not playing to win, or he is scum trying to make a play. Either way, I am happy to vote him as long as his self vote is in place. I only unvoted beacuse I did not want him to eliminated before you got a chance to check in

This justification for your vote doesn't feel townie at all for multiple reasons but I doubt you really want to get into why.

Tell me why you hate 940. I'm interested.

[Roden]

This justification for your vote doesn't feel townie at all for multiple reasons but I doubt you really want to get into why.

I have no idea what you could possibly mean here?

You think that I posted something scummy, and you don't think I would want to talk about it?????

If you think I did something scummy, shouldn't you want to put that in the thread, regardless of what I want?

Interesting. So you acknowledge I posted something weird, and decide that's what required your focus instead of the question I asked you? Do you think it's scummy that I said something that's weird or did you specifically look for a reason to not answer the question?

[Roden]

This justification for your vote doesn't feel townie at all for multiple reasons but I doubt you really want to get into why.

I have no idea what you could possibly mean here?

You think that I posted something scummy, and you don't think I would want to talk about it?????

If you think I did something scummy, shouldn't you want to put that in the thread, regardless of what I want?

Interesting. So you acknowledge I posted something weird, and decide that's what required your focus instead of the question I asked you? Do you think it's scummy that I said something that's weird or did you specifically look for a reason to not answer the question?

Mainly hated the -- "if anyone can quote the exact line" -- Seems more like a scum thought then a town one.

Now, want to answer my question?

Scum is more likely to ask for basic evidence than town? I know you don't actually believe that when I've seen you catch scum by doing exactly that. This reads as extremely forced because saying you "hate" a post doesn't mean much and gives you room to give whatever interpretation you want. Pretty sure town!you is more straightforward than that.

The answer to your question is that my statement was weird on purpose just to see reactions. But you kinda proved what I was saying right anyway because you focused on the part of my post that honestly didn't matter to avoid answering a really simple question that you don't seem like you were prepared to be asked.

[Roden]

If you say so.

I could be on board for a T3 elim, but I am kind of wanting to put my vote back on Roden

What do you mean you could be on board? You said he was scum in 305. The exact post you're asking House to get credit for.

So you reach for a vouch from House, say you might vote T3 even though you scum read him, then say you'd rather vote me anyway even though you haven't cased me?

[Roden]

Emphasis on "might" btw

[Roden]

I think it's hilarious that Angel is speculated to be my partner, then all of a sudden there's this push to eliminate them.

If I was a more savvy person, I'd probably consider the person that started that push as scum for trying to eliminate a suspected Mason in order to fish out a claim.

But I'm not that nuanced.

I did not really think that they were your mason partner before, and mainly just thought that idea was just coming from T3.

But now seeing this post coming from you tho..

UNVOTE:

This was a weird unvote, I almost never see town!Luke back down on a read, and trying to justify it by speculating about Masons doesn't come off as town.

Looking at your votes in general, you've been all over the place. I don't usually see that from you, you tend to latch onto hunches and reads even on Day 1. Tbh your posts have more in common with your one scum game that you showed me, you even open by wistfully hoping to roll scum more often there too.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Your second naked vote on me in a row. And still no case.

Very

out of character for you.

I've been on the opposing end of one of your tunnels and I'm telling you now, you're absolutely flopping like a fish compared to your town games. Why are you so passive? Why did you drop your scum read on T3 to focus on one of the LHF when your MO has always been to scum hunt and meta your scum reads? Because so far all you've done so far is meta AW as town and weakly push T3 before unceremoniously backing off. In fact, you've backed off all of your scum reads whenever they became unpopular, all the while trying to play nice with people and reach for vouches within the perceived town block.

[Roden]

Scum is more likely to ask for basic evidence than town? I know you don't actually believe that when I've seen you catch scum by doing exactly that. This reads as extremely forced because saying you "hate" a post doesn't mean much and gives you room to give whatever interpretation you want. Pretty sure town!you is more straightforward than that.

The answer to your question is that my statement was weird on purpose just to see reactions. But you kinda proved what I was saying right anyway because you focused on the part of my post that honestly didn't matter to avoid answering a really simple question that you don't seem like you were prepared to be asked.

I think I was incredibly straight forward. You made a post that looked like a scum post. I voted you, and pointed directly to the post that made me feel that way.

Please walk me through the reason why scum!luke would have pointed that post out in the first place? Wouldn't the tons of ATE, and my concerns about your self vote be reason enough to vote you?

Why would scum Luke ever just throw in a "Also I hate this post" and point to a post that I could not back up a reason for why I hated it. That is silly.

Because you're nervous scum and you don't know how to play as fake town. Town!you doesn't wait for someone to ask you to explain very basic reads, you instead overexplain and push hard on everything you're thinking.

Scum!you points out that post because I don't think you honestly care about AtE, you care more about logic, meta, and motives. Of all things you could point to to case me, you point at me asking for basic proof as evidence that I'm scum.

Interesting that you once again ignore the crux of what I was originally asking you though. You

really

don't want to talk about, just like I said.

[Roden]

Lots and lots of ate this day phase.

Also, did not like his interaction with Dwlee. Hate post 940 in particular.

And then the self vote. Which is bad. But also, it happened 9 hours and 9 posts ago. So the fact that it is still there concerns me doubly so. Like, it is no longer a "flash of anger" self vote. It is a choice.

So he is either a townie who should be policy voted for not playing to win, or he is scum trying to make a play. Either way, I am happy to vote him as long as his self vote is in place. I only unvoted beacuse I did not want him to eliminated before you got a chance to check in

Like, I had other things that pinged me with your play this day phase, and at the time, the biggest thing in my mind was the self vote, and the fact that it lasted as long as it has, hence the fact that that takes up like 80% of that post.

And you decide that I am scum because of a minor point, when I said "hate post 940 in particular?"

The things that "ping" you also happened in the exact game you replaced into when you took my slot in Summertime. You've seen exactly how I play as town and I gave you my scum games to compare them to. So why are these things pinging you when you've seen me do it as town and haven't seen me do it as scum? Or did you not actually bother to meta me even though that's your absolute favorite thing to do as town?

I don't think you're scum because of a minor point, I think you're scum because your post caught my attention, and now that I'm trying to thoroughly evaluate you a lot of things just aren't adding up.

[Roden]

Because you're nervous scum and you don't know how to play as fake town. Town!you doesn't wait for someone to ask you to explain very basic reads, you instead overexplain and push hard on everything you're thinking.

Scum!you points out that post because I don't think you honestly care about AtE, you care more about logic, meta, and motives. Of all things you could point to to case me, you point at me asking for basic proof as evidence that I'm scum.

Interesting that you once again ignore the crux of what I was originally asking you though. You

really

don't want to talk about, just like I said.

I don't know that I would describe myself as nerveous as scum, I currently have a 100% win rate there tyvm.

As for the "Push hard on everything I am thinking," the main reason I did not go hard on you was because I was not trying to push you out with 1092. My expectation was that you would see that, and then stop self voting, and then we would move on

So he is either a townie who should be policy voted for not playing to win, or he is scum trying to make a play. Either way, I am happy to vote him as long as his self vote is in place.

I wouldn't say you've been confident, regardless of your alignment. You haven't been able to stick to a single scum read this game, let alone today where you've already flip flopped several times.

Why would you not go hard on me if you think I should be elim'd regardless of my alignment? Why haven't you even attempted to try to read me beyond anything surface level? And why do you think I would stop self-voting just because you threatened to elim me when I specifically asked to get elim'd? I don't buy that you think we should move on because you want me voted out before your actual scum reads that you've made actual cases before.

Your response to it, I don't think has been great though

Explain, because if you think I should be policy elim'd for playing unconventionally and then pressuring someone who's taking an objectively opportunistic stance on my elimination, I think you look worse off.

[Roden]

I think droo stole gamma's vote and it's a scum night action.

I'm not gonna lie this looks like TMI, this and your entrance. Or you are better at figuring out mechanics than i am.

Your other two options don't make sense. And night action explains why there wasn't a droo vote yesterday.

@Gamma: how does that show your vote isn't stolen? You're on a wagon but only 2 votes are there.

Why aren't you freaking out about being accused of TMI this time? Genuinely odd.

[Roden]

I think droo stole gamma's vote and it's a scum night action.

I'm not gonna lie this looks like TMI, this and your entrance. Or you are better at figuring out mechanics than i am.

Your other two options don't make sense. And night action explains why there wasn't a droo vote yesterday.

@Gamma: how does that show your vote isn't stolen? You're on a wagon but only 2 votes are there.

Why aren't you freaking out about being accused of TMI this time? Genuinely odd.

I didn't the first time :^)

Holy fuck y'all are stupid

Like sorry for being so rude but did I seriously just get wagoned for speculating on the night kill?

Does anyone think I night kill house, it fails, and I go in thread saying "yes house was definitely the night kill and is probably town now" seriously wtf

Hmmmm...

So you're admitting this was a fake reaction then?

VOTE: Dwlee

[Roden]

[Dwlee, Lukewarm, T3/RHM]

I think T3 would 100% gambit using the DROO vote in an unorthodox way, and that Dwlee would do whatever it takes to save themself from suspicion. Luke is just scum from meta.

[Roden]

I thought you were talking about when you accused me of Droo TMI @roden.

Guillo you can always just shoot me tonight. Or have a buddy do it. Whichever you want.

Nice backtrack lol. Your reaction to that TMI accusation was an overreaction as well though.

[Roden]

How tf did I gambit with the DROO vote?

I didn't say you did. I'm saying I could see it and that you would be one of the more probable options.

There id literally no case against me except for "Not towntelling" and "he might do that if he was scum"

I'm not voting you, I voted Dwlee. Do you think they're town? What about Luke?

[Roden]

Roden is scum because it's not a town reaction to see a legitimate explanation to a thing said (ie, what it was referring to) and say it's a "backtrack"

You say I'm scum every time breathe lol. I can't take anything you say seriously because even with my limited interactions with you, you're always so off the mark with everything you say you that you just come off as a better jester than Not_Mafia.

And no, that one wasn't an overreaction at all. I think I responded very calmly and you're projecting because everything you type sounds like you're seething.

You sound mad that you got caught lol.

[Roden]

If I faked a day cop guilty on Guillotina would people believe it?

"Faked"

Idk you tell me.

Btw if you've been so certain that I'm scum then why do you keep moving your vote off of me?

[Roden]

How tf did I gambit with the DROO vote?

I didn't say you did. I'm saying I could see it and that you would be one of the more probable options.

There id literally no case against me except for "Not towntelling" and "he might do that if he was scum"

I'm not voting you, I voted Dwlee. Do you think they're town? What about Luke?

...even though the consensus is that DROO is a factional ability?
I think Luke is town because good vibes. Dwlee I still have no idea, I'll meta him at some point.

Yes, it likely is a factional ability. Nobody is saying you actually did anything though, all I said is that you could have. If anyone knew for certain that you're scum then you'd already be gone by now.

What are the good vibes with Luke? He scum cased you, tried to push you out multiple times, randomly dropped you without saying a word, and now wants credit for your elimination. What about that gives off good vibes?

[Roden]

If I faked a day cop guilty on Guillotina would people believe it?

"Faked"

Idk you tell me.

Btw if you've been so certain that I'm scum then why do you keep moving your vote off of me?

I have a day cop guilty sorry

Ok. But elim all liars will be in effect.

[Roden]

@Roden, looking at your scum games, did actually lessen my scum read on you.

However, I think you are pretty bad at meta.

Spoilering a wall, because this is really only for the benefit of Roden

Spoiler:

You talk with a tone like you have such an understanding of how I play, but then you say things that feels like you are comparing me to exactly our first newbie game. And only that game, but that game was quite different then this one, and there are plenty of other games I have been in

----------

VOTE: Roden

Your second naked vote on me in a row. And still no case.

Very

out of character for you.

What makes you says that is out of character for me?

Plenty of times before where I have seen a post I did not like, and just voted as town

Fuck it

VOTE: hectic

Maybe I am just really bad at this game, but VOTE: Prism

VOTE: monkey

VOTE: Manatee

VOTE: Hopkirk

But, then I think that as scum, I made a point of having a clear trajectory on my votes.

-----

This was a weird unvote, I almost never see town!Luke back down on a read,

And here..

This post is with a tone of "I know how you play," but then says something that is just not even true

Looking at your votes in general, you've been all over the place. I don't usually see that from you, you tend to latch onto hunches and reads even on Day 1.

And again, talking like this is something I would never do as town.

In open 815, my Day 1 votes were:
Child of Faries -> Johnny -> Prism -> Hectic -> Humaneatingmonkey -> Child of Faries -> Prism -> Skitter -> Humaneatingmonkey

-----

because saying you "hate" a post doesn't mean much and gives you room to give whatever interpretation you want. Pretty sure town!you is more straightforward than that.

Town!you doesn't wait for someone to ask you to explain very basic reads, you instead overexplain and push hard on everything you're thinking.

This one is egregiously bad, because, that is not even strictly true in the game I played with you

Hero solve [T3 + Roden]

This is either a lazy hero solve or a reactionary one. Either way it's teetering on OMGUS. Which townreads a little bit better.

To be fair, my scum read on you is mild, but it has nothing to do with the vote on me, and everything to do with not liking post 105

Btw, what didn't you like about post 105? I'm curious since the only other person who didn't seem to like it was your scum read.

I saw a post that I did not like, I said I did not like it, and you had to ask me a few times to find out why.

I was not aggressively pushing you and explaining my scum read on you, because you were not a particularly strong scum read, and I only go hard when I am confident. If you look back at what was originally said, was "Robert and Roden look worse this day phase" and then I was asked why that was. I answered the question.

My original vote on you was largely your own self vote, and the fact that it was still there after an extended period of time. I actually think you were teetering on breaking site rules

Nora I'd literally rather spite you and get us both voted out if you're going to go out of your way to throw this game for town. I want to go to the dead PT, see your confirmed alignment, and laugh as you crumble Day 3.

The second vote was that your case on me seemed so bad that it must be ingenuine (maybe Noraa had a point about me scum reading people who have bad scum reads on me) -- but I am coming around to the idea that you are trying to use meta, and doing so poorly

@roden again

Spoiler:

did you not actually bother to meta me even though that's your absolute favorite thing to do as town?

Just like also, this is not true??

Do I use meta, yeah. Is it my favorite thing, no. I actively avoid doing meta dives on players until I feel like I must. I generally meta like 1 player per game I am in. I think I have actually done more meta homework this game then I have for any other game I have played in on site.

Even in that game with me and you where I pushed out T3, while that was a "meta read" it was not that I had done a meta dive on him, and more that I was comparing it to games that we had already been in together.

Gonna spoiler as well because everyone else has already moved on.

Spoiler:

First, of course you have to say my meta read on you is bad. There's no universe where you say it's good without scum claiming.

Second, I'm gonna tell you what I told Dwlee. There's a button that let's me see games a person has played in and it's getting annoying that you guys want to pretend it doesn't exist. I haven't just skimmed your ISOs either, I've read a couple of your games all the way through and you're a lot more consistent with your playstyle than you're letting on. When I say something like "you're reliant on logic and meta" it's because you've tunneled people so many times over things that don't add up to you.

In Newbie 2061 you tunneled multiple townies because of associatives, and then you fought Marci's battle for her with Marci vs Catboi because you were so certain it made no logical sense for Marci to be town. Catboi had to fight HARD to get you to listen to him because you were so resistant to hearing any other POV other than what made sense to you.

There was also Newbie 2060, which I'm not going to get into detail here because I don't want to fling shit, but you know why I'd bring that up here considering how that game went.

Point being that I've seen the context of your playstyle multiple times and it's a massive discredit to just say I'm bad meta'ing you when that wasn't what I was even scum reading you on. I'd said quite a few things weren't adding up and my meta read on you supported, not confirmed, what I was thinking.

What continues to be odd about all of this to me is that your read on me just won't settle at all. You go Day 1 defending me from AW, to scum reading me Day 2 because of my self-vote, to threatening to get me removed from the game by playing against wincon, to just settling on calling me a bad town player. If you're just unsure how to read me then fine, but it doesn't feel that way to me.

Claiming that I'm playing against wincon and "teetering on breaking site rules" especially feels odd because you could really only believe that if you KNOW I'm town. Scum can gambit with a self-vote, which you do say, but claiming I'm damn near about to break the rules does not make sense to say unless I'm conftown in your eyes.

Then there's you saying my meta read on you is bad. Why is that the conclusion you jump to instead of assuming I'm scum trying to shade you? This again just implies that you know I'm town.

If you could come to such a solid conclusion within a day, why were you so eager to mis-elim me instead of going after your scum reads? Can you see how this would make me uneasy about your alignment? Because according to players like AW, we shouldn't have this much nuance as town.

[Roden]

Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q

[Roden]

What's the case on Robert?

Also marashu is my gut third scum assuming {Roden, Robert} is correct here. Did not like that specific vote on me.

And here you ask if I would rather die than have Robert die like I even knew there was a Robert in the game. I thought Roden's name was Robert until I realized I should click the thing at the bottom and realized there was actually a player named Robert. I'm gonna answer no there even if I'm scum. Your question accomplishes nothing fmpov.

Dwlee, I think I'm almost done sorting you, but can you explain what happened here? You hero solved me with RMH when you claim you didn't even know he was in the game and thought he was me. There was only a 20 minute gap between 705 and 712 so I'm struggling to see this as a real solve.

[Roden]

Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q

To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?

So scum outed that they have a stolen vote, wasted it on vanity votes, then parked it on a dead wagon as they went AFK?

[Roden]

What's your flavor?

[Roden]

Dwlee, I think I'm almost done sorting you, but can you explain what happened here? You hero solved me with RMH when you claim you didn't even know he was in the game and thought he was me. There was only a 20 minute gap between 705 and 712 so I'm struggling to see this as a real solve.

I knew there was a Robert at that point. I meant I didn't know who he was until recently.

This is really confusing, because you asked for the case on Robert and then twenty minutes later hero solved him.

[Roden]

Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q

To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?

So scum outed that they have a stolen vote, wasted it on vanity votes, then parked it on a dead wagon as they went AFK?

Just because someone can be competent scum sometimes doesn’t mean they will be all the time

And yeah my angleshoot is just “the scum vote steal happening at xyzzy times can be checked against when people are active to potentially deduce the user”

Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q

To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?

So scum outed that they have a stolen vote, wasted it on vanity votes, then parked it on a dead wagon as they went AFK?

You can say I was trying to make sense out of nonsense.

We should look at the context of when each DROO vote appears then, including future ones.

[Roden]

Nobody else should flavor claim. These flavors imply a misleading set up and T3's specific flavor screams scum.

[Roden]

The opening post implied we had 7 VTs and three PRs who were likely Crono Lucca and Frog. I don't think it makes any sense for somebody to be Informed that Frog is in the game when that's already implied by the fact that Frog fights Yakra in the video game.

It also doesn't make any sense for Gaspar or Spekkio to be here since they don't get introduced until AFTER the boss fight. And why the hell would Cyrus be in the game when in the video game he'd already died? Cyrus has nothing to do with the Yakra boss fight at all.

This isn't a general Chrono Trigger themed game, it's specifically about the Yakra arc. T3 is just trying to bait Frog into outting themself.

[Roden]

I'm Melchior and my neighbor is Lukewarm.

Wrong answer. Melchior is also one of the sages and he forges equipment for the party. He would be more likely as an Inventor than Spekkio.

[Roden]

House cannot out his flavor because it would hint what his JOAT abilities are.

[Roden]

Why did the mod decide to inform me that Spekkio is in the game? Explain that.

Because you're lying. Melchior is in the Dark Ages and the Present, but never in the Middle Ages which the Yakra boss fight takes place in. Why would the mod flavor the game as the Yakra boss fight but then add in completely unrelated characters as flavor?

Additionally, Town are supposed to be seven soldiers and three weirdos. Melchior is not a soldier, and it would fucking wild if he got brought in as a flavored weirdo over the actual characters who are a part of that arc.

[Roden]

I need to see vote count but I'm spiritually on RMH or t3 right now.

No reason to be "speculating about Spekkio's role" in a neighborhood with someone you don't know is town or not

I was speculating on Spekkio's role.

Why would you be hiding your information that he was in the game?

That's pro-scum.

As Spekkio is at the end of time which isn't accessible until after Yakra is dead, he is not one of the 3 heroes (weird people), and VT flavor is Knight of Guardia.

The question needs to be answered and the underlined needs to be addressed.

[Roden]

I'm sorry I tried to give you a chance Day 1, RHM.

VOTE: RHM

[Roden]

Tbh I really wasn't sure how Mason Bodyguard was supposed to work flavor wise. I assumed House was bullshitting the specifics of the PRs to confuse scum, but I wasn't expecting a fake claim.

[Roden]

What made you suspect a fake claim?

[Roden]

What made you suspect a fake claim?

A mason JOAT with a bodyguard? hardy har har.

Well yeah that lol. But it didn't look like you expected him to be full-on VT since you slipped that you thought he was Bulletproof and there wasn't a NK.

[Roden]

VOTE: T3

Cyrus wouldn't be in the game my dude, and you pretty obviously tried to get Frog to out themself. You also supposedly have a Rolecop check, which makes zero sense for flavor btw, but you haven't told us who you've checked.

[Roden]

I don't have a rolecop check.

Why did you lie about your role then?

[Roden]

I don't have a rolecop check.

Why did you lie about your role then?

Because Frog could theoretically be a strong pr and I didn't was to get rbed or something. In retrospect my role is quite weak.

Why did you ask Frog to come forward? Even if you could Bulletproof them, if you're afraid of a Roleblocker then wouldn't Frog essentially have a bricked role at that point?

Also, are you able to give the vest during the day or only at night? And can you do it as a tree stump?

[Roden]

If it's only a night action then probably not, assuming you die for real once night starts.

[Roden]

Assuming T3 is telling the truth, I think he's a more likely red herring flavor that was thrown in than any of the gurus. Idk what to think about Spekkio, but if it was a genuine slip by RMH then this game seems incredibly town sided, as Spekkio would have to be town if scum don't know who it is. On Day 4 we could just mass flavor claim and win, since T3 likely dies tonight and three unique town flavors would still be alive + House who's basically a confirmed VT.

PE: Oh, well I'm fine voting T3 since I think we can still case him regardless of his role claim. He notably isn't answering why he tried to out Frog.

[Roden]

Slight chance I am a flavor miller. I never played the game but RMH flip makes me suspect that might be the case.

This got passed over. Why do you think you're a flavor miller?

[Roden]

Tbh Marashu does also make a compelling point. Though yeah T3 should go first at this point.

[Roden]

VOTE: Guillo
Okay I guess I'm kind of bored with Roden anyway so I'm fine seeing where this goes.

Lately I find that I can get behind this.

VOTE: Guillotina

Oh look at them. Dwlee and Robert who could not vote each other out of “solidarity” are now voting against me.

You guys are outing you know?

I think this means Dwlee can't be scum.

[Roden]

If Gamma’s vote has been in fact stolen, im locking him town.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Well this is completely incongruent

What is incongruent? Have i ever said that i dont scum read you?

Gamma having his vote stolen = lock town

Droo voting me = scum WIFOM

Fixing my last post

Third time is the charm?

Ok. What is incongruent about it?

If Gamna’s vote was stolen last night, he is lock town for having his vote stolen, that is definitely a scum ability.

This same scum ability could very well place that vote on anyone, including their own to WIFOM us into changing our reads. By the way the Droo vote has been used, it tells me that most likely the votes on you and Robert are WIFOM and that you both are scum, because there is no way scum are so incompetent to waste such a powerful action and not secretly hammer a target at L-1 and instead vote you guys the way they did.

The other option is they are doing it to feed my paranoia of you and Robert, but again, why waste that action to fool just me.

I dont buy it. I need you dead to find out.

Guillo's ISO hits different with Marashu's case in mind. It sounds like he's low key flaming his buddies for fucking up the DROO vote. He also kept pushing for RMH/Dwlee/Gamma associatives but then wanted Dwlee gone towards EoD. Cyrus never switched to voting RMH when he replaced in and kept his vote on Dwlee. He also claimed to be Gaspar lol, so yeah I'm convinced this is a solved game at this point.

[Roden]

I'd love to be right about my original read on Dwlee but I think they just sheeped scum this game. The buddying with RMH is really obvious otherwise.

[Roden]

I'd love to be right about my original read on Dwlee but I think they just sheeped scum this game. The buddying with RMH is really obvious otherwise.

He's trying to distract from the T3 wagon, but I certainly agree that 3rd scum is definitely one of {Mara/dwlee}.

Are you certain Guillo is town?

I'd love to be right about my original read on Dwlee but I think they just sheeped scum this game. The buddying with RMH is really obvious otherwise.

I've never been wrong before

Do you want the town read or not?

[Roden]

I'd love to be right about my original read on Dwlee but I think they just sheeped scum this game. The buddying with RMH is really obvious otherwise.

I've never been wrong before

Do you want the town read or not?

I'm bad at the game, at least let me be sarcastic about it

Fair.

Are you certain Guillo is town?

I don't buy the speculative guilty result.

I was townreading Guillo before the replace out, and Cyrus has been screaming town at me.

I'll trust your read then. I'm not sure how Gamma could've got a guilty result anyway tbh, unless Lucca does have a Cop shot, or is possibly a Loyal Inventor, though that wasn't said in the flip so it's unlikely.

What's confusing to me is why Gamma died in the first place when they were drawing a bunch of scum reads from people. If Guillo is town, then scum would know Gamma was falsely softing Cop, so they shouldn't have expected to hit a PR.

[Roden]

Why would House gambit a fake claim just to get the (presumably) strongest PR on his team mechanically proven as scum? How is that bus helpful to him at all?

[Roden]

Okay fuck it fine I'm Crono
I have 3 abilities, 2 of them are called doubletech and the other one is called tripletech. I have 6MP. The doubletechs are 1-shot vig activators that can activate for both lucca and frog. The tripletech is a 1-shot public revealing vig, but because Lucca died I can't use it. I realizedI was a powerful PR early so I looked for a fakeclaim that would never get me killed by scum ever. I crumbed my real role at the start with the brain thing. Cranium sounds like Crono.

Just realized this must be fake because the party doesn't have Triple Techs yet at the Yakra boss fight lol. Pretty sure the real Crono has the Life spell and used that to save House on N1.

[Roden]

Okay fuck it fine I'm Crono
I have 3 abilities, 2 of them are called doubletech and the other one is called tripletech. I have 6MP. The doubletechs are 1-shot vig activators that can activate for both lucca and frog. The tripletech is a 1-shot public revealing vig, but because Lucca died I can't use it. I realizedI was a powerful PR early so I looked for a fakeclaim that would never get me killed by scum ever. I crumbed my real role at the start with the brain thing. Cranium sounds like Crono.

Just realized this must be fake because the party doesn't have Triple Techs yet at the Yakra boss fight lol. Pretty sure the real Crono has the Life spell and used that to save House on N1.

I was thinking it was likely Frog's Heal.

And I'm pretty sure I know who Frog is.

I was thinking that was possible too, I just doubt Crono got a Triple Tech ability and his Life spell would be more likely to be one of the PR's abilities. It would be funny if the flavor was that Frog Doc's people by slurping them though lol.

Okay fuck it fine I'm Crono
I have 3 abilities, 2 of them are called doubletech and the other one is called tripletech. I have 6MP. The doubletechs are 1-shot vig activators that can activate for both lucca and frog. The tripletech is a 1-shot public revealing vig, but because Lucca died I can't use it. I realizedI was a powerful PR early so I looked for a fakeclaim that would never get me killed by scum ever. I crumbed my real role at the start with the brain thing. Cranium sounds like Crono.

Just realized this must be fake because the party doesn't have Triple Techs yet at the Yakra boss fight lol. Pretty sure the real Crono has the Life spell and used that to save House on N1.

Bad flavor spec.

Then you're scum instead lol.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Roden]

Then you're scum instead lol.

VOTE: Dwlee

Not a terrible vote.

I doubt dwlee and Marashu are scum together, though.

What do you make of my 1890?

I'm thinking Mara vs Cyrus isn't TvT. I'd follow your vote on either of them tbh, which I know is sheep-ish but I think either of them could flip red.

Roden is saying that we should kill an unCC'd Chrono claim in a Chrono trigger game because... He doesn't think the mod would include triple techs. That's bad flavor spec.

Idk why you keep taking everything I say at face value. I'm looking for reactions, and so far neither you or T3 are pinging town.

Can we pulverize Lukewarm?

For why tho?

Why me fry me?

[Roden]

For the record I don't think Titus is scum this game. She hasn't tried to look for town points, and I don't think she'd ever let RMH do anything he did on Day 2.

I don't trust Luke because he kept trying to look for town cred Day 1 and 2, and he's playing very cautiously and defensively right now. Pretty sure we just catch scum if we bum rush whoever's trying too hard to be careful.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

Whenever T3 naked votes I get bad vibes.

BP on a Cop makes sense balance wise if scum have a X-shot Strongman and/or a Roleblocker, and Yakra was an insanely strong role that just got caught early, so the game doesnt feel too town-sided.

[Roden]

Whenever T3 naked votes I get bad vibes.

BP on a Cop makes sense balance wise if scum have a X-shot Strongman and/or a Roleblocker, and Yakra was an insanely strong role that just got caught early, so the game doesnt feel too town-sided.

What all do you know about Yakra's role?

Yakra seemed to be the vote stealer. It should've been stronger but it got wasted, it had very little impact and instead exposed RMH as scum. They could've used it to hammer a townie but just, didn't. So it either had specific rules or it got misused, and I think it's more likely it just got misused. Scum in general seem to barely be making an impact during the day as is so I'm fairly certain they just don't know what to do or how to use their roles.

[Roden]

I think a scum strongman would have killed me n1, as I was a pretty obvious target for a protective.

This is a good point actually. Yeah that rules out Strongman, Roleblocker should be still be on the table then.

[Roden]

The room buzzed. Accusations flew. Somehow needles appeared in some members backs, weakening them and changing their voice.

I fucked up the coding but, this implies that there was more to Yakra's abilities than just vote stealing. I just don't know what.

[Roden]

Translation: wah, my mislim is losing steam! Wah!

Tbh I think it's more likely for scum to complain about town power imbalances than town.

[Roden]

Does insane just mean a random result, or the opposite result?

[Roden]

Wtf is going on

[Roden]

Why would Gaspar's MP be linked to Cyrus? They're not related in any way.

[Roden]

So it's just T3 and Cyrus then...?

[Roden]

Cyrus we need you to tell us your exact flavor and role now.

[Roden]

Lmao

I was literally halfway through writing up another scum case on you too, Luke.

VOTE: Cyrus

[Roden]

Nora I'd literally rather spite you and get us both voted out if you're going to go out of your way to throw this game for town. I want to go to the dead PT, see your confirmed alignment, and laugh as you crumble Day 3. I'm fairly certain I can catch scum this game, but you've made this such a miserable experience that I don't want to bother anymore. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you're just always like this.

VOTE: Roden

Roden stop. Unvote now!

White knight alert.

I'm noticing a pattern that every time I get scum read, afterwards it's always scum trying to stick up for me for town points and for a potential pocket lol. Also every time I feel bad about wanting to suspect someone, it's because they were scum trying to manipulate me.

This really does catch scum every time lol

[Roden]

Lmao

I was literally halfway through writing up another scum case on you too, Luke.

VOTE: Cyrus

I tried to tell you that your meta was bad

Yeah that's my bad lol. I was half bluffing to be fair but yeah, it wasn't good.

[Roden]

Oh wait. T3 can be safely CC'd now since there should only be one scum left. So if the real Crono is someone other than T3, they can speak up and we just win the game. If T3 actually is Crono, then I think the final scum is...Mastina, right? I think everyone else is clear.

[Roden]

If T3 actually is Crono, then I think the final scum is...Mastina, right? I think everyone else is clear.

I somehow doubt mastina did not provide better flavor appropriate fake claims then gaspar to her parner(s)

Cyrus first claiming gaspar and then claiming cyrus says to me that the scum team does not have someone with good knowledge of the flavor.

So, like house and mastina (and me).

over night, I might actually look at who presented good flavor knowledge

Spekkio could be an INVENTOR

I actually think that this slip from Robert might have been the scum team sandboxing fake claims.

I cannot imagine any other reason why they would be talking about Spekkio, and seeing as how so far they fake claimed gaspar and cyrus, spekkio seems in the realm of possibilities of people they were considering.

So, like I said. I don't think that they have a member with good knowledge of Chrono Trigger

Just like, in case I die over night.

Imo, tomorrow should start with a mass claim

All really good points. Mastina is basically hard cleared due to competence then. No offense to scum of course but town even provided examples of who you could fake claim.

[Roden]

Yeah, that's basically it. I noticed that discrepancy and hoped that if I pressured you on it you might eventually slip. I've been looking for cautious scum and I expected you to pounce on someone by now. Which, well you did lol.

[Roden]

For the record I don't think Titus is scum this game. She hasn't tried to look for town points, and I don't think she'd ever let RMH do anything he did on Day 2.

I don't trust Luke because he kept trying to look for town cred Day 1 and 2, and he's playing very cautiously and defensively right now. Pretty sure we just catch scum if we bum rush whoever's trying too hard to be careful.

If Gamma’s vote has been in fact stolen, im locking him town.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Well this is completely incongruent

What is incongruent? Have i ever said that i dont scum read you?

Gamma having his vote stolen = lock town

Droo voting me = scum WIFOM

Fixing my last post

Third time is the charm?

Ok. What is incongruent about it?

If Gamna’s vote was stolen last night, he is lock town for having his vote stolen, that is definitely a scum ability.

This same scum ability could very well place that vote on anyone, including their own to WIFOM us into changing our reads. By the way the Droo vote has been used, it tells me that most likely the votes on you and Robert are WIFOM and that you both are scum, because there is no way scum are so incompetent to waste such a powerful action and not secretly hammer a target at L-1 and instead vote you guys the way they did.

The other option is they are doing it to feed my paranoia of you and Robert, but again, why waste that action to fool just me.

I dont buy it. I need you dead to find out.

Guillo's ISO hits different with Marashu's case in mind. It sounds like he's low key flaming his buddies for fucking up the DROO vote. He also kept pushing for RMH/Dwlee/Gamma associatives but then wanted Dwlee gone towards EoD. Cyrus never switched to voting RMH when he replaced in and kept his vote on Dwlee. He also claimed to be Gaspar lol, so yeah I'm convinced this is a solved game at this point.

I'd love to be right about my original read on Dwlee but I think they just sheeped scum this game. The buddying with RMH is really obvious otherwise.

I'm gonna double down on all of this now.

[Roden]

Uh, minus the Luke part obviously.

[Roden]

If nobody CC's T3... it has to be one of AW or Roden??

Ew.

I feel like I've proven myself as town by this point, and should be ruled out due to my flavor knowledge backing up two scum elims. But tbh if it's guaranteed that we don't have a deep wolf then I don't really have a problem getting mis-elim'd here. Because if there is one I'll probably throw if I somehow make it to ELo, and if there isn't and the PoE is just me and AW then I still win if I go out before her.

[Roden]

Any way can we make this go faster so I can self hammer

We're waiting for everyone to chime in first, Mastina hasn't even had a chance to post yet.

[Roden]

If T3 told the truth and can Vig/let Frog Vig, then either AW or I need to be targeted tonight.

[Roden]

I think it'd be wild if scum!AW really did hard defend her scum buddy Guillo at the beginning of the game.

[Roden]

Vote Count 1.9

Roden

(1)

:

Angel Warriors

Robert M Hunter

(5)

:

Gamma Emerald - House - T3 - Titus - ssbm_Kyouko

mastina

(1)

:

Guillotina

T3

(1)

:

Lukewarm

ssbm_Kyouko

(2)

:

Robert M Hunter - mastina

Guillotina

(1)

:

Roden

Not Voting

(2)

:

Dwlee - Marashu

With 13 players in the game, 7 are required to Yeet unto the Eternal Void .

Deadline for voiding is in (expired on 2021-08-09 08:31:06)

Mod Notes

Marashu is V/LA.
Lukewarm is V/LA

Pronouns

T3- He/Him
Angel Warriors - They/Them
Roden - He/Him
ssbm_Kyouko - She/Her
Marashu - He/Him
Guillotina - He/Him
Lukewarm - He/Him
Robert M Hunter - He/Him
House - He/Him
mastina - She/Her
Titus - She/Her
Gamma Emerald - He/Him
Dwlee99 - They/Them

Vote Count 1.10

Robert M Hunter

(4)

:

Angel Warriors - Gamma Emerald - T3 - ssbm_Kyouko

mastina

(1)

:

Guillotina

Dwlee99

(1)

:

House

T3

(1)

:

Lukewarm

ssbm_Kyouko

(2)

:

Robert M Hunter - mastina

Guillotina

(1)

:

Roden

Not Voting

(3)

:

Dwlee99 - Marashu - Titus

With 13 players in the game, 7 are required to Yeet unto the Eternal Void .

Deadline for voiding is in (expired on 2021-08-09 08:31:06)

Mod Notes

Marashu is V/LA.
Lukewarm is V/LA

Pronouns

T3- He/Him
Angel Warriors - They/Them
Roden - He/Him
ssbm_Kyouko - She/Her
Marashu - He/Him
Guillotina - He/Him
Lukewarm - He/Him
Robert M Hunter - He/Him
House - He/Him
mastina - She/Her
Titus - She/Her
Gamma Emerald - He/Him
Dwlee99 - They/Them

Vote Count 1.Final

Robert M Hunter

(1)

:

Angel Warriors

ssbm_Kyouko

(7)

:

Robert M Hunter - mastina - Marashu - House - Gamma Emerald - T3 - Guillotina

Roden

(1)

:

ssbm_Kyouko

Titus

(1)

:

Dwlee99

Angel Warriors

(1)

:

Roden

Not Voting

(2)

:

Titus - Lukewarm

With 13 players in the game, 7 are required to Yeet unto the Eternal Void .

Voiding achieved with 10 days, 21 hours remaining.

Mod Notes

Marashu is V/LA.
Lukewarm is V/LA

Pronouns

T3- He/Him
Angel Warriors - They/Them
Roden - He/Him
ssbm_Kyouko - She/Her
Marashu - He/Him
Guillotina - He/Him
Lukewarm - He/Him
Robert M Hunter - He/Him
House - He/Him
mastina - She/Her
Titus - She/Her
Gamma Emerald - He/Him
Dwlee99 - They/Them

She even wanted RMH out...She got on his wagon around the same time House and Titus were leaving it.

[Roden]

Pretty sure Vig just chooses between me and AW tonight. I'll claim once T3 has been settled.

[Roden]

It can't be Dwlee because Guillo wanted Dwlee gone over RMH, even though he suspected both of them. I don't think it can be Titus because I don't think she'd ever allow her scum buddies to waste their roles and then out themselves like that, though she is the least "clear" out of everyone I guess.

[Roden]

The problem I have is that I don't think it's AW due to wanting RMH out since Day 1, and I'd be shocked if Luke bussed both of his scum buddies like this. Dwlee hard pushed Guillo/Cyrus along with Mara. House and Mastina are hard cleared due to flavor knowledge, though I guess it's possible Mastina just wasn't around to help her scum buddies come up with better fake flavor claims. Titus isn't scum due to competence and I think House brought up another point before as well. And if T3 doesn't get CC'd then he is confirmed town.

I think if it isn't T3 then we likely have a deep wolf. And I have a bad feeling T3 isn't scum because Guillo tried to convince everyone that T3 scum claimed after already going through scum theatre with RMH.

[Roden]

With Titus' competence I mean that she would never let her scum buddies dunk themselves as badly as they did, least of all without getting any kind of bus credit for it. I do agree my reasoning is weak though and that she could still be scum, it's just unlikely. She should be a part of the elim pool like AW suggested.

[Roden]

I'd be shocked if Luke bussed both of his scum buddies like this.

What evidence do you have Luke bussed RMH? My vote analysis shows the opposite.

RMH reached out to Luke for a Neighbor vouch and Luke denied it, confirming RMH as scum. I suppose he could've seen RMH as a lost cause, but they could've tried planning something credible to save him at the very least.

[Roden]

Fair point about Titus tbh.

Though to be fair about T3, you also hard town read the same slot T3 did, AW.

[Roden]

Hello. There are 7 new pages

Hello. There are 7 new pages

Robert claimed to be in a neighbourhood with you, so I would very much like for you to read them.

I'm Melchior and my neighbor is Lukewarm.

Oh. lmao

VOTE: RMH

I'm Melchior and my neighbor is Lukewarm.

Oh. lmao

VOTE: RMH

WTH

VOTE: Lukewarm

1 vs. 1

The only possible case I could make about Luke at this point is that this looked odd to me at the time and still does. Luke's posts kinda sound fake and RMH's reaction could be scum theatre.

Luke acts like he's just finding out about RMH's Neighbor claim in post 1545 when Mara already told him about it in post 1537. Luke was live reacting in his catch up posts, so he 100% should have seen Mara's post in a preview edit. Mara was also the only one who posted in that time, so it's not like the PE would've been cluttered with posts, and I doubt that Luke wouldn't bother to read a single one sentence post.

What stands out to me even more is that Luke was announcing his arrival

just

as we needed him to start talking. It just seems really convenient.

If Luke is scum, it would explain why RMH tried to 1v1 Luke, and why he was so flaccid when it came to actually defending himself and attacking Luke. Like, why 1v1 and then not even bother to actually fight? Unless the entire point was that it was all just scum theatre all along in order to give Luke town cred.

[Roden]

Can we kill cyrus now, and then all lock town me because this is the second scum I have hard accused of lying, and then they broke the facade and scum claimed

Luke has been reaching for vouches all game, and this might be the biggest reach he's gone for yet. Asking to be lock town when we're currently 8 town vs 1 scum just reads like he's desperate to stay alive. Town shouldn't have any problem getting elim'd if it means we're closer to narrowing down who the final scum is.

Also, it's actually really strange that both scum gave up when Luke specifically accused them of lying, but not when anyone else went after them.

[Roden]

Roden, you must think I am shitty scum player smh

I don't, but I do think you're deflecting and that you're blatantly desperate to stay alive.

Why is that when Titus and I suspect you, your response was to shade only Titus? Why aren't you suspicious of me? And why is it that your immediate response to suspicion is to shade somebody instead of defending yourself? If you have reasonable explanation I think you'd be able to ease suspicions.

The biggest question that I need you to answer is why you acted like you didn't know that RMH claimed you were his neighbor. You should've seen Mara mention it in the preview edit since you were rapid posting at the time, and only Mara's single post would've interrupted it.

[Roden]

UNVOTE:

[Roden]

We're still talking, T3.

[Roden]

Vig Titus. I'm only interested in Luke if we're dealing with deep wolves.

[Roden]

I think Luke's response was good.

[Roden]

That better be a troll post.

[Roden]

T3 probably dies tonight, so we can't even vote him off.

[Roden]

You can fake scum clime all the time. You can't clime to be scum with others.

It's against the rules to play against wincon. Scum claiming as town for no reason and zero benefit is 100% playing against wincon.

[Roden]

The only way this isn't a completely scuffed game if he's town is if he flips as Crono.

[Roden]

It could be scum theatre. I'd rather assume that than a deep wolf.