mini normal 2226; who won
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Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.- Prism
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Consider playing the game again; feel free to expound on Meg as a springboard.In post 456, Vulture wrote:I'm phoning it in for this game. Normal games don't have the same zest as other games, it feels like, so I'm unsure why I threw myself in here.
I'm comfortable with the townpool of T3/Datisi/Lukewarm/Ari (Her posting improved once I saw more for her. Someone prodded her on a read on someone I don't remember, but it didn't feel as if it was something she made up). Thinking about Titus some; from a glance at a recent scum game, she went hard after her partners. It doesn't feel like she's doing that this game and unless she has at least 1 partner in the townpool I'm inclined to believe she's town from that as well.
Chaos's vote being parked on Flubber feels strange. I feel as if he's abandoned (at least somewhat) pressing there in favor of calling out other slots as weird. But keeping his vote parked on Flubber while having another growing wagon (Meg) and acknowledging her as weird feels as if Chaos doesn't want to vote a partner and wants to go for a miselim on Flubber.
VOTE: MegAzumarill.
This, however, depends on Meg flipping scum. And given that Meg sounds awkward, fine to vote there regardless.
Sincerely hoping that refusing to play the game is not a towntell, but all signs point to it being one.- Prism
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I'm probably going to take a different approach this time around with my catchup and work through ISOs first rather than reading the game holistically immediately (will still do so afterwards)
Not really thrilled with Lukewarm ISO on skim. Realtime interaction is lacking a bit+clearly improvised at points rather than something he's been chewing on only to finally be given voice.- Prism
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Someone is eager to go in for the kill, glad I was already typing that up.In post 635, MathBlade wrote:
How do you like 623 and 630 and then say you don’t like Vulture’s ISO?In post 634, Prism wrote:Vulture, I'm very curious about your townread on Lukewarm.
To be blunt, I do not like your ISO, which is perhaps to be expected but it is how I feel nonetheless. Scum are heavily incentivized to play lower key Day 1/2 if they can get away with it.
What stands out to you?
This seems to contradict your prior post.
Yours will be the last ISO I visit but this was a valid question and if you're town I hope we wind up working together more cleanly than in our last. I will do all that I can to rein in the level of tilt I had in Warehouse.- Prism
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I'll read the whole game front to back regardless but I rarely read ISOs even later, and discussions with petapan have made me very interested in giving it a try at the start rather than just lategame.In post 638, MathBlade wrote:I know you said you’re doing the ISO thing but some things probably won’t make sense in a vaccuum.
I apologize if the approach winds up being frustrating.- Prism
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I do not really buy this.
First, to directly answer your question, yes it is. I recall several times in Forest Fire where your thoughts in response to questions were both complex & well-reasoned even if wrong, and usually given with quick turnaround. Compare this to 259, where you are noticeably building the thoughts as you go. This is not a general scumtell, but the contrast immediately stuck out to me and it bothered me that Vulture gave a townlean on you.
My vote came in seeing that you were posting elsewhere, and you have been akin to a puppy in your eagerness to interact with certain players you respect. Perhaps I didn't earn yours in Forest Fire? You waited to post until I am in bed/supposed to be gone for the night were I not an addict, and the bewilderment is bothersome to me as you directly quoted Forest Fire and I was pretty explicit both that game with the specific behaviors I saw as town+why I found them lacking here.- Prism
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Will respond to the rest later as I start waking up but Datisi I would like you to be more specific/actually engaging with the substance of my response.
My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing. If you think I'm scum okay but consider humoring me.
I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments. I have a sneaking suspicion that Meg flipping town will not earn me a townread, which is fair, but focus on one player at a time.- Prism
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There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.In post 666, Aristeia wrote:[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]
610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.
It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.
This is silly because
1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.
There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.
The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.- Prism
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The hypothetical point of shoving Lukewarm would have been to get a townread from him over the course of several real life days. Again, this is within range. I think his response was decent.In post 671, Aristeia wrote:
why do it the easy way if the hard way gets you townread and allows you better positioning to take thread control?In post 667, Lukewarm wrote:I feel like there are way easier people to try and pivot the thread onto
Why not go after Chaos? Or Vulture? Or Umlaut? Or Titus? Or you?
Those all seem like easier people to pivot to then me, right?
you are making an assumption about Prism wanting to do things the easy way.
Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.
I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.- Prism
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This completely ignores my more aggressive tendencies. I can & do slow down when I want to but there are times even as town when you should be direct, vocal, and fast.In post 685, Aristeia wrote:In post 682, Prism wrote:
There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.In post 666, Aristeia wrote:[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]
610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.
It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.
This is silly because
1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.
There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.
The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.
When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.
You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread
Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.- Prism
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I didn't like the more ingratiating approach with MathBlade. There is town incentive there to be so direct/accomodating but I remembered a more paranoid Datisi from ye olden days. The tone is the weaker part of this and I put little stock in it. If you didn't consider it more ingratiating then okay.In post 684, Datisi wrote:
what about my tone is weird? and what is wrong with my questioning? or rather a better question would be, have you read the things i was questioning?In post 619, Prism wrote:Want to vote Datisi but will holdoff until catchup. Instinctually this page is enough for a dayvig between 600's weird tone w/ MathBlade & the sequence quoted in 601. Latter is more striking, comes off as playing hard with intent to shove through as opposed to legitimate questioning.
Fair criticism, will do & circle back. Luke also requested this of me.In post 686, Datisi wrote:
you should maybe look at the slot's prior post before judging that one, because it was mostly getting grilled for providing poor/surface-level analysis, and it was obvious that people wanted "more proper analysis" from them - why is the asking for more time unlikely to come from a newbie? (and besides, i don't think meg is a newbie anyway, they said they played elsewhere and seem to be well versed in reasonings to read someone a certain way or the lingo or whatever)In post 679, Prism wrote:My reason for defending the slot is very straightforward. The post asking to talk/discuss reads more before hammering is something I have a hard time seeing from newer scum despite the incentive existing.
I meant the former. I did not appreciate my question being outright ignored for a preflip on your end and by fear on Aristia's.In post 687, Datisi wrote:
does this mean you don't like it or that you find it scummy? i can understand the first one, regardless of your/meg's alignment really, but i'm gonna need some very good justification if you're trying to say you find it scummy.In post 679, Prism wrote:I do not appreciate the two posts from Datisi/Aristia calling me scum for dueling wagon speculative associatives. I will hold my more acerbic comments.
Alignment wise I did not like it until I realized you weren't likely intentionally dodging my question but we more genuinely curious as to what it meant for me, at which point I changed my post to accommodate that. Probably within range but eh.- Prism
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I absolutely have been burned by bad reads and my own aggressiveness, yet a cursory glance of my recent meta will reveal I am more aggressive than ever. I am wrong and I am wrong like clockwork, and I may be on Meg as well.In post 690, Aristeia wrote:In post 688, Prism wrote:Bit about me not taking the easy way is a way off, I am very laid back/minimal effort as scum if I can get away with it but the caveat always applies.
I don't think there is anything else to respond to about me. My strategy would depend heavily on who my specific partners are. I am good at establishing thread control as scum. I am also very intentional, verbose, and demanding as town.
I think your town game is more marked by questioning and doubt.
You've been burned in the past by derailing a runaway bandwagon on scum before and you'd need significantly more evidence than a one post snap-read to try to do it here.
You demand the best from yourself and your team.
I don't think you/meg can get away with playing passively here, if meg flips red it will look very suspicious why she didn't try at all to vote/push an alternative, it casts suspicion onto the Altwagon which is you.
I think you went with the method of attack that had the best odds of resetting the narrative and taking control of the thread. I don't believe town!you does that here with no information coming in cold to a game.
Casting my play this game as not marked by questioning & doubt is willfully blind. Go revisit and think how I am leveraging the snapreads/ISOs.- Prism
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Okay. There is nothing for me to respond here to as town. I can backlink excerpts from Perpetual, Forest Fire, and Trust Tell later when I am not on my phone, but I suspect this will not be resolved until I am flipped one way or another.In post 705, Aristeia wrote:
This is just self!meta.In post 702, Prism wrote:It also might be worth noting that as scum I would have 100% have already read the entire game before replace-in. I do not post without knowing exactly what is going on and why.
I think scum you relishes the oppurtunity to crush towns.
The worse the starting position the more delicious the turnaround.
Also with T3 threatening intent to hammer and Meg being like all "you can kill me it's not a problem" there doesn't really exist the premium of time for you to take a full re-read.
You have to make a move that hits the game state hard like a meteor in order to take thread control, reshape the narrative and get things moving for your side again.- Prism
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I am on a phone and can make one post at a time, give me a bit and I'll set up my laptop and actually start reading the game again.
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The more paranoid/offset Datisi was my original "This post to MathBlade is weird?" The paranoid/offset Datisi kicks in the opposite direction when he is more concerned about my alignment/SvS wagons than afraid of me.In post 694, Datisi wrote:i can see my tone seeming like that, but that is just How I Talk and if this game turns into me having to dig ten billion meta examples of me Talking Like That i am gonna scream. though i'm not sure how you rememberinga more paranoid datisi makes you ease up on that read?and sorry, what question was i avoiding there?
Question was about Meg, which I wanted you to rehash to me specifically even though at this point I've kind of shown my hand.- Prism
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Is this to me or to MathBlade? If it's the former there's a big miscommunication here.In post 716, Datisi wrote:also, uh, you talk about "good scum wouldn't do that", and maybe (maybe!) that's true, but i haven't seen proof that either flubber or meg are exceptionally good at scum (no offense, i'm shit at scum too). so i don't see how that invalidates what i said?
and besides, literally all i said was "if the two leading wagons aren't voting each other, they're more likely to both be scum", why is this suddenly someting that "decent scum" doesn't do?- Prism
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I recognize why you're pressing this, both to try and pressure me and to counter the fear of thread control. I would consider that both pressure/thread control are priorities for me as town, too, especially in a world where Datisi doesn't look good at a glance. I would really, really like to drop this and read the thread in the meantime. I've restrained myself & will continue to do so but some of my drafts were uncomfortably vicious. If I'm right and Meg is town we can debate that/a proposed counter without you giving thread to me entirely, or if I think I'm wrong we can just flip them.In post 718, Aristeia wrote:I don't see how your play from games where you are town would serve as a counterfactual for what I'm saying about scum!you's play in a game state where your scum partner is in imminent danger.
A proper counter-example would be scum!you replacing into a game where a partner is about to get eliminated on d1 with hammer intent already on the table and your slot having voted the player in question in an awkward way.
That's a fairly narrow condition set so I kind of doubt you would have a relevant example to cite.
I don't expect you to come up with a counter example, it would be unfair of me to put that burden on you.
I am simply laying out the relevant reasons for scum!you not to do a re-read but be forced to immediately enter thread and fight. I am doing this to counter your self!meta that scum!you would not come in cold.
I have a meeting in 20 so it'll likely take time and I honestly need a bit to cool off regardless.- Prism
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Meg:In post 142, MegAzumarill wrote:I feel the drama with flubber is being taken pretty harshly to what resulted from mostly RVS discussion.
VOTE: TitusIn post 329, MegAzumarill wrote:Titus is my RVS vote, I don't think they have done much either way yet. I don't see a reason to change it until I SR someone else.
Can you discuss more explicitly how you arrived at this initial vote given your later townlean? You're saying RVS but I want to know what the thought process was, if there was one.In post 579, MegAzumarill wrote:Titus: doesn’t seem super concerned with exactly who is limmed, which seems townie (as I suspect there are 1 or more scum outside of their townblock) but doesn’t seem to provide a good flow of logic into the game, slight townread- Prism
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I can see why this slot got scumread for the early vague reads/general lack of proactivity. Even the later followups are overly simplistic and I now...have a lot more empathy for why Datisi asked so many questions about them line-by-line rather than just letting them sit.
On a first pass though I think this slot is still a townlean/a tossup. The read on Alchemist from 284 to 314 makes sense, and I kind of liked the contrast in the below. Originally it set off an alarm but after chewing on it for a bit I understand.
It won't blow my mind if any of this is fake, but I think this game+610 are very par for the course for a newer town player. Meg isn't completely new but I think the inexperience still shows.In post 508, MegAzumarill wrote:Aristeia: posts little content, but still shows they are following the game closely in 184, strong townread
ChaosOmega: keeps posts long, fairly thoroughly analyses conversations, doesn’t actively push his reads out, weak townread
To be blunt this vote is a tossup to me and I'm not really a fan. I read Datisi 463 and can really see him pushing this as either alignment.- Prism
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I also really did not like this vote because it comes off as a basic deflection but again I can see it.In post 579, MegAzumarill wrote:Vulture: on 2 occasions (me and flubber) added to a large wagon without providing thoughts of said wagon, very few reads given until very recently, Scumread
Honestly it feels like vulture hasn’t received enough pressure after their putting flubber at E-1. Especially after Chaos ended up doing the same before, with a much less meaningful vote.
VOTE: Vulture
Might circle back around when I go through everyone else.- Prism
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I'm curious as to why you didn't vote one of the people pressuring my slot if you felt that way about the early Flubber pages.In post 754, MegAzumarill wrote:I skimmed through the ISOs after my first skim of the game, found one that wasn't being actively pressured and didn't have a lot of posts and voted that one.
I was V/LA at the time and didn't have time to do a thorough look through of the game.- Prism
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Not really thrilled with the Chaos ISO. Reasoning is pretty basic+tonally I don't like 110's comment on T3.In post 261, ChaosOmega wrote:I'm trying to sort Seanzie. The vibe he gives off is like he's super serious right off the jump, the Flubber wagon was the biggest thing to happen in the game up to this point, and he didn't comment on it, which seemed odd to me.
These being in the same post are pretty ??? even if I can kind of connect the dots.In post 261, ChaosOmega wrote:As for other reads I have, Umlaut,Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.
Really want more from the slot+we have the time to wait for it.- Prism
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The back and forth with Lukewarm I feel like I need more context for, but in general Chaos I think you'd benefit a lot more here from more aggressively pursuing your reads. I don't get why you're both so intentional in your posts/responses but also staying sidelined, this is the worst of both worlds.- Prism
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For Chaos, 2007 join date means this is likely stylistic, but posting more doesn't mean you have to hyperpost like me/several others. It's just very hard both to push successfully & get a gauge on you if you're playing in such an isolated/quarantined way, and there is a healthy medium here.
Right now it just feels like you're passively pushing the pet scumread without really investing the energy/personal vulnerability to sell it.- Prism
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Given our, uh, previous track record for matching up (Warehouse/Happy Face as willow) I wouldn't hold my breath but this is a New Game and There Is HopeIn post 774, Titus wrote:In post 765, Prism wrote:UNVOTE:
Probably going to go Chaos -> Gamma -> read whole game. Will be shocked if I don't have hardreads on Lukewarm/Vulture/Gamma by the end of it.
Good. I hope our reads match there but I hope you get a townlean on Gamma and Lukewarm. If you trust me, please do so.- Prism
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I did not, I have been eager for any game at all and this was the first playerlist I found even vaguely playable. See: My hyperposting/aggression in Coalition before I was forced to replaceout.
What Aristeia is commenting on is my general attitude towards games, that of an obsessive perfectionist, but is wrong in arguing that this approach prevents me from starting very aggressive/headstrong as town. I am very eager to grow and take risks as town: I am relentless as town, but am an absolute perfectionist as scum. I will spend days and weeks puzzling over reads & how to get the most of players as town, but as scum I am an absolute control freak who can't stand losing. If I am scum I 100% have read this game already and am pretending not to. While a counterfactual, any glance over my scumgames will confirm this as it dates back years and is always mentioned in notes PT/postgames.
The above linked Coalition is also where my suspicion on a Vulture-tell derives, unfortunately you (Gamma) came out strong early this game and thus will not have the hydra-specific tell he did in Coalition.- Prism
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- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8597
- Joined: August 18, 2015
The more I think about this, the better I feel about it. I think a scum Datisi does not have a very good time upon seeing me replace-in, and that pressure would weigh a lot more heavily than it did on him here.In post 723, Prism wrote:
The more paranoid/offset Datisi was my original "This post to MathBlade is weird?"In post 694, Datisi wrote:i can see my tone seeming like that, but that is just How I Talk and if this game turns into me having to dig ten billion meta examples of me Talking Like That i am gonna scream. though i'm not sure how you rememberinga more paranoid datisi makes you ease up on that read?and sorry, what question was i avoiding there?The paranoid/offset Datisi kicks in the opposite direction when he is more concerned about my alignment/SvS wagons than afraid of me.
Does anyone disagree with Datisi-town here?- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
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I also really don't think Aristeia goes this far out of their way against me Day 1 as scum. There's SvS shenanigans with burning a tell+wanting me out but there's really no point; just let me lead on town Day 1 then go on me Day 2. Perhaps I'm wrong and them being this serious is a scumtell. I'm also bothered by the linkage between me/Meg given how tenuous Meg being scum is to begin with, but oversold confidence is part of the schtick.
This one is more likely to burn me than Datisi but again I feel good about it. If anyone has a more solid read on the slot let me know.
I don't know how to feel about Lukewarm without the whole game. I thought he was threaddodging but it is unfair to expect him to revisit this game before posting in the others. I just expected an instant response+a followup later.- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8597
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 8597
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I really appreciate you answering this; I know I've ignored your slot so far+will surely do so again at times but I promise I will do my best to get to your broader view of the game sooner rather than later. I'm glad you're still willing to dialogue with me post-Warehouse regardless of alignment.In post 812, MathBlade wrote:I am good with Datisi Town going to have to catch up with his responses after work. I think his logic/reads/tells are flawed but I don’t think he’s scum for it.
I am curious as to why Datisi is town over null for you.- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8597
- Joined: August 18, 2015
- Prism
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Prism Jack of All Trades
- Prism
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8597
- Joined: August 18, 2015
Me circa 2020: "Datisi has typed 200,000 words of complex and consistent reasoning. I am on my seventh reread and see no flaws-but darkness surely lurks somewhere. I must begin anew. From scratch. From nothing."
Me circa 2021:puts on cowboy hat"Hot damn Datisi ignored a question, gotta be town let's ride boyz."
Aristeia you can fit here too except you're more copying a Farkran scumgame and I really should be more concerned about it than I am - Prism
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