Do you get similar feelings from 26/30 by Flubber? If not, what makes them feel different?In post 57, T3 wrote:This post is really terrible. It feels like scum taking an RVS interaction way too seriously.In post 42, Umlaut wrote:Why should I make any kind of post toward Seanzie? I read the thread, I saw Flubber joining a convenient wagon for disingenuous reasons, I voted him.
mini normal 2226; who won
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VOTE: Flubber
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I have limited experience with T3, but this is about where I'm at with it as well.In post 93, Datisi wrote:if that were almost anyone else, i'd start screaming for their head because they're obviously making it up as they go, but gut tells me this is not *completely* out of t3's townrange.
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Seanzie, any thoughts about the Flubber/Umlaut interaction?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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The quotes here don't make it seem like he was pressured. You voted him and Gamma asked him in a non-accusatory way. If he was scum, I'd think he would be more careful since the push would be fabricated. What about this interaction makes you think he was pressured?In post 124, Flubbernugget wrote:In post 12, Seanzie wrote:VOTE: Alchemist21 no townie would ever subject the rest of town to this pun.
In post 27, Seanzie wrote:It isn't, necessarily.
am I missing something like...super obvious? he's literally acknowledging alch was cracking jokes and then saying to opposite after being pressured.In post 34, Seanzie wrote:Good question. Instead of entering with jokes or RVS, Alchemist seems to want to be friends with everyone.
I get why someonemightthink it's trolling but given the context I really think u need to reexamineIs it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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VOTE: Lukewarm
Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?
I'm trying to sort Seanzie. The vibe he gives off is like he's super serious right off the jump, the Flubber wagon was the biggest thing to happen in the game up to this point, and he didn't comment on it, which seemed odd to me.Lukewarm wrote:Basically, posts 71 and 101 feel like scum trying to help the wagon pass while also not looking like they are the one leading the push. Asking Seanzie's opinion also felt like a manipulative way to get an extra vote on the wagon.
Lukewarm wrote:It is not until 227 that he actually appears to be adding to the case, and that is after I have moved my vote, datsi has said they were starting to get town pings, and Aristeia removed her vote.
This feels like scum, but also never scum with Flubber, so if he does flip scum, flubber is probably lock town imo
If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?Lukewarm wrote:And then 227 feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table
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In post 171, Lukewarm wrote:I am not liking that Aristeia keeps asking other people before she votes/unvotes, like she is absolving herself of her votes.
VOTE: AristeiaIn post 181, Lukewarm wrote:
Any reads you have.In post 180, Aristeia wrote:In post 173, Lukewarm wrote:Doesn't mean I am willing to let them just avoid having any reads of their own
what would you like to talk about?
Weak or strong, scum or town, doesn't really matter, but would like for you to have opinionsIn post 184, Aristeia wrote:Close to My Heart: Datisi
Beneath the Sky: Lukewarm, Umlaut, Seanzie
Sea of Dreams: Gamma Emerald, Titus, T3
Waves upon the Shore: ChaosOmega, Meg
The Long Winding Road: Alchemist, Flubber, VultureIn post 187, Aristeia wrote:Datisi is the hero of our story, he is so handsome and cute and I would be so sad if he were scum, call it a wish of the heart, I think he is good. I could wax poetic for days about how amazing he is but I don't think you would like to read that? Besides it might embarrass him and I wouldn't want that.
mindmelded with Lukewarm on 50, I quite like his method of thinking, it feels natural.
Umlaut feels like he has purpose and direction that is going somewhere - he feels quite motivated to catch bad guys.
Seanzie gives me nice vibes, I can see where his questions are going and he feels fairly real to me.
Gamma/Titus/T3 I'm not quite as comfortable with but they've all done independently townish things that remind me of their towngames.
Chaos/Meg need to post more.
Alchemist feels too careful, it's like you say things with too many words and I think you don't have pure intentions, you remind me of my ex-boyfriend who would start talking quickly whenever he was trying to lie to me.
Flubber feels kind of forced to me, I don't think he is genuine, there's a certain awkwardness.
Vulture's one liners feel quite surface level and I think it's possible he slipped T3's alignment in 82
The jump on and off of Aristeia doesn't feel natural to me. Did you scumread her when you voted her in 171?In post 250, Lukewarm wrote:I like Aristeia's response and read list.
UNVOTE:
Am back from my VLA, and will probably give the game a reread later tonight
atm, I am roughtly at Datisi, Umlaut, Gamma, Aristeia feeling like town
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As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I don't know that Lukewarm is scum. Also, the first line is moreso to interact with him.Aristeia wrote:He votes for Lukewarm and then,
His first two lines are explain-y, as in "this is what I'm actually trying to do", the point he's making is that he did nothing wrong.
I find that tends to come from people who are scum and disagree with the manner in which they get caught.
Because if Lukewarm is scum, why would he even bother explaining to Lukewarm what he's actually trying to do?
"If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?"
This line is just wifom.
He's also looking at Lukewarm jumping off me, but if he actually believes Flubber to be scum, he should be much more interested in how Lukewarm started the Flubber wagon and then jumped off of it rather than the interaction with me.
I am also interested in his jump off of Flubber, but I think his interaction with your slot has a weirder vibe. He votes you, tries being really nice not wanting to step on your toes at all, you post a readlist where he's town, and then he jumps off and says you're a top town read. It doesn't feel genuine.
I am aware with my posts up to this point that I can be suspected, and that it won't all be by scum trying to mislim me. Something I didn't verbalize in my last post but was thinking is that it felt like Lukewarm was just latching onto your reason for voting me.Datisi wrote:aristeia, could you talk about why you voted chaosomega? i read his latest post, and something feels off about it, but i can't put my finger on why i feel that way. the only conscious idea i have is that it's odd he went for lukewarm and ignored my push on him, but... eh.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Wrong, it means I support it. Better luck next time.In post 283, Lukewarm wrote:
NoIn post 261, ChaosOmega wrote: Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?
The desperation part is in response to your 260, saying that Chaos "feels like scum realizing that their early day 1 miselim is starting to slip away, and finally stepping in to try and keep it on the table". This is not a strange interpretation of your words.In post 283, Lukewarm wrote:
Would you call scum "describing a reason why they scum read the person they are currently voting" as desperate? I didn't, and wouldn't. That is a strange interpretation of my words.In post 261, ChaosOmega wrote: If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?
I'm going to talk about this more further down, but it feels mechanical, like you're going through motions to look town and not actually scumhunting. It doesn't feel like you were trying to sort Aristeia, it feels like you were trying to buddy them and look productive while doing so.In post 283, Lukewarm wrote:
What does not feel natural to you? I said she did not have reads, and that was worrying to me. She gave a read list, and provided reasonings when asked.In post 261, ChaosOmega wrote: The jump on and off of Aristeia doesn't feel natural to me. Did you scumread her when you voted her in 171?
I saw you steal that point from Flubber's 232, along with your point about me trying to stay on wagon from Datisi's 230. You can try to frame it as OMGUS, but I'm attacking you because I think you're scum.In post 283, Lukewarm wrote:
See, this is what I find strange about your response. One of the things that I said was bothering me was that you don't have reads out thereIn post 261, ChaosOmega wrote:As for other reads I have, Umlaut, Seanzie, Vulture, and Datisi for town, something about Gamma is pinging me, but I can't really put it into words, so I'm ignoring it for now, still think Flubber is scum, the push on Seanzie and his post about mindmelding w/ Titus reads phony.
And you see me make that point. Apparently realize that you should put some reads out out, but then also don't realize that I had a point, and therefore valid reason to pressure you for reads?In post 259, Lukewarm wrote:As of now he has commented on T3, and Flubber, and thats it.
And even with the two of them, he has been stand offish of taking stances. Despite having interacted with T3, I have no idea if he thinks that T3 is townie or scummy? So that leaves Chaos's only read in thread to be flubber.
And, with Flubber, he also held back...
There seems to me to be a bit of cognitive dissonance between the omgus voting me reaction (which when coming from town, I find normally comes from a place of feeling like the reasons the person is scum reading you are non-genuine), while also addressing my biggest concern about you in this way.
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This doesn't feel like you're trying to find scum. It's like you're posting in a formulaic way trying to look good and can justify your actions.In post 281, Lukewarm wrote:Me: I see something I found suspicious about Flubber, so I vote him and explain my suspicions
Flubber: Explains his thought process behind the things that I found suspicious
Me: I moved my vote
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Me: I see something that found suspicious about Aristeia, so I vote her and explain my suspicions
Aristeia: Responds to the thing that I found suspicious, and provides a read lsit
Me: I move my vote
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Me: I see somethings Chaos has done that I find suspicious, so I vote him and explain my suspicions
Chaos:
~Vote: Luke
~actually I never did anything wrong, and and address the reasons Luke stated to scum read me and
~actually, wasn't Luke being suspicious earlier, when he did this other interaction with Aristeia
~(Of course, I never voiced any opinions on either Luke or Aristeia until Luke started voting me)
I never said that I never did anything wrong, so that's a misrep. If anything, I imply the opposite in 266 when I say "I am aware with my posts up to this point that I can be suspected". And between my latest post and this one you're referencing, you hadn't yet made a complete about-face to have Ari as one of your top townreads after suspecting them for having no reads.
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285 from Alchemist feels weird to me bringing up his post count. It's not done explicitly, but it feels like he's trying to use that to show his towniness. I feel the same thing as Meg in 284 that I'm getting weird vibes from him, but I think there's a decent chance this is just playstyle difference, so I'm not really interested pushing there today.
I'm not going to be around until tomorrow around the same time. I want to look through Gamma's ISO in more detail next, but if anyone wants me to answer something in particular, feel free to ask.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Still not crazy about Lukewarm. He responds to my last post in 432 taking a snipe at the most snipe-able part but doesn't respond to the substance of the post. I feel like I'm confbiasing at this point with Flubber/Lukewarm being my top 2 scumreads, but Lukewarm's 460/461 reads like trying to save his partner.
Reading MathBlade's catchup is a slog. Not sure if it's by design. One thing that I find weird, this post:
I'm not going to quote all of Math's posts for context, but his catchup was done seemingly by reading through the game, stopping at a post, quoting and responding with thoughts. He thinks I'm scum here, but at this point in the game where he quoted, I hadn't posted. This style of posting seems like it's trying to convey genuine town thought process, showing your reactions and read evolutions throughout the read, but this POV is fake if I'm a scumread here, unless he thinks I'm scum for not posting before page 2, which is silly.In post 470, MathBlade wrote:
VOTE: Alchemist21[/b]In post 47, Alchemist21 wrote:No. He feels more like low-hanging fruit to me and I think both he and I were interested in seeing who else would push him for voting me. It was notable to me after the first 2 votes that the people voting Seanzie were people who know me, but 2 could just be a coincidence and I wanted to see if there would be a pattern and if anyone would try to pocket me along the way. I wanted to see how it played out a bit more but I think we're past that point now.
For what it's worth I don't think Umlaut was wrong on Flubber but there's another part of me that thinks Flubber could have been pushing Seanzie's bad reasoning in his own way and it strikes me as odd that Umlaut went for Flubber and didn't make any comment towards Seanzie.
What are your reads looking like so far?
Someone doesn’t have to mention a second player during pushing a first if it would dilute their case.
It would be like me saying “oh my god tris is scum because blah blah blah”
Then someone saying “But you didn’t mention anything about (player tris is pushing)”
So? That’s cart before the horse.
Kinda thinking chaos + Alchemist here.
508 by Meg feels weird, mainly just the Ari read: "Aristeia: posts little content, but still shows they are following the game closely in 184, strong townread". I don't get strong townread from the little lead-in there, this feels like a consensus take since Ari was vocally townread by multiple people prior. Could also be trying to defuse Math attacking her right before that, but don't really feel that because if Meg's her partner, she had enough support from others, so probably not this.
And 601 makes me feel better about Meg. The expounding on the Ari read (and the rest of it, but that was my biggest pain point) makes sense, and it feels genuine.
I skipped over them as it came up, and I said I was going to go through Gamma's ISO before, but I still don't feel great there. Datisi summed it up well, it doesn't seem like he's trying to figure out who is scum. There's a lot of focus on the setup spec, he has a lot of posts focusing on Ari that don't seem helpful. There's not nothing there, the push on Mathblade is maybe ok in 828, but it's grounded in a lot of meh in 626/785/787/798/804.
Prism replaces Flubber, and then immediately pushes Lukewarm, who pops up in thread right after. It could be scum distancing, but it doesn't feel like it, so I guess at least one of my top scumreads is town. Prism looks better from the interaction here, Lukewarm's response has a panicky vibe. I also don't like some of the read progressions he makes here. 658 reads like trying to get someone who scumreads you to go away by calling them town, especially given 668 where as soon as there is an attack on Prism for the push on you, you jump on and agree. I was going to make a big post attacking 670 here, but it does jive with your ISO reading through it. It feels weird to have you want to move away from me when I've posted nothing in the past couple days at this point and it looked like a lazy pivot onto the Meg wagon, but this could be legit thought process given your posts prior.
And skipping ahead a bit, I don't know what to make of 784. It seems like you're trying to kill wagon momentum on me, which doesn't really make sense at all for scum you to do. There is a bit of a weird defensive vibe like you need to justify moving from me to Meg, but I don't see why scum you just doesn't stay on me here. UNVOTE:
Just finished page 32, taking a break for a bit, but I feel a bit lost at this point.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all? Also, who are you currently scumreading? I know you had the initial push on Flubber, but you felt better about Prism, not sure where you stand right now.
And I'm back to not liking Lukewarm. I need to go back through and see the momentum of my and Meg's wagons when he switched, I gave him townpoints because I thought mine had more momentum, but if Meg's had more, the switch doesn't do as much for me.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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What is the point you're making here? Is Math scummy for doing this? If so, why?In post 1449, Umlaut wrote:In post 1296, MathBlade wrote:1224 reads to me like someone entirely uninterested in the game not scummy. Many many times I have seen completely disinterested town and scum make similar posts. Ari also did the same sort of uninterested hop in but yet you pick on Umlaut why? I have as scum taken advantage of disinterested town to get a quick elim. We just had wagonpalooza D1 and now 4 people are confident sans case?
That reads one of two things neither of which are protown to share yet. Regardless I think a scum in Chaos, Datisi, Gamma, and Titus is quite high regardless of which explanation I go down.
Premise A: (Secret premise)
If Premise A is true then scum likely think Premise A is true and therefore would vote Umlaut.
If Premise A is not true then scum likely think they may get a free elim by hopping on without discussion like everyone else.
Math says he's not defending me and wants me limmed but this definitely reads like defending to me...In post 1297, MathBlade wrote:It’s rather telling that 1224 is the first attempt to explain Umlaut scum rather than using D1 and that’s after unexplained votes appeared.
To those of you who are that sure Umlaut is scum, why not go look back and see what was scummy D1?
Make a case of it.
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Lukewarm, what are your thoughts on Umlaut? Is he scummy but less so than me, neutral, town?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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In post 1568, Lukewarm wrote:My stance for like 75% of the day was Chaos>Meg.
Yes I thought that meg was scummy too, but I compromised away from my top preference Day 1.In post 398, Lukewarm wrote:I have a strong preference to a Chaos > Meg elim day 1.
I think that they are both about equally scummy, but Meg having actually no opinions in thread means that we don't get any associatives from a Meg flip.In post 670, Lukewarm wrote:I still think that both Meg and Chaos are scummy, but I my preference for chaos is falling away.
Meg has gained some associatives recently, more in how other people (and not just prism) have interacted with the slot then just their recent read list, and the lack of meg associaives was the main thing pushing me towards flipping chaos first.
Your preference seemed to be for Meg most of D1, but favoring me due to lack of associatives. Describing it as a compromise feels wrong, she got more associatives and became a better lim candidate from your progression here it looks like.In post 917, Lukewarm wrote:My top scum reads are chaos and meg, and I want to elim in those 2 personally.
I had a preference for chaos, but thought meg was also a good choice. that preference has gone away due to other slots interaction with the meg wagonIs it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I don't know what the either or here is referring to.In post 1572, MathBlade wrote:
Explain why this has to be an either or situation.In post 1569, ChaosOmega wrote:It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.
Far as I am concerned my vote would be about game health and you’re both scummy AF to me.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Because I'm town? If you think I'm pushing an angle here and I'm not being genuine then vote me, but I don't know what you want in terms of why you should town read me.In post 1578, MathBlade wrote:
Why should I town read you?In post 1577, ChaosOmega wrote:
I don't know what the either or here is referring to.In post 1572, MathBlade wrote:
Explain why this has to be an either or situation.In post 1569, ChaosOmega wrote:It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.
Far as I am concerned my vote would be about game health and you’re both scummy AF to me.
Why does it have to be a pull away momentum from Umlaut?
Why does Umlaut have to be scum and you town? Don’t get me wrong I scumread Umlaut but I do this dishonest framing as scum all the time. I hate black and white fallacies.
Umlaut seems to be settled as the top lim choice today. Gamma and Luke (other than Umlaut I guess, but honestly not really) are the main people fighting that, either by pushing for my lim or trying to towncase Umlaut. Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game. If so, there is only 2 group-scum, and I think there is going to be more of a defense put up to save a partner in that scenario. I might have tunnel vision here a bit at this point, my solve right now is Umlaut/Lukewarm with Gamma as a traitor.
And again, not sure what you're looking for with this question. My point is something I'm seeing in the game, I'm coming into it with a bias that I think Umlaut is scum and therefore this action being done is suspicious, but I'm not trying to imply a dichotomy here. From your perspective if you're town, me/Umlaut interaction could be T-T, T-S, S-T, or S-S. So uh, you figure it out I guess?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Town neighborizer could be 1 of the 3. I just feel like since it was mentioned, it's trying to troll us in some way.In post 1581, Datisi wrote:
actually no, the odds of a traitor, who doesn't have access to a pt, drop to zero. if there are three scum, two with a pt, where's the third player with it? can't be a townie, since they would immediately know what their partner is scum.In post 1580, ChaosOmega wrote:Now for some speculation. With the info that only 3 people have access to a PT, I think there is a higher than normal chance of a traitor being in the game.
i think it would use you to rethink a little bit, i get you think umlaut is scum, but both his partners being that obvious in trying to save him would be a bit... unlikely, at least?
@math, i'll get to your q later, about to leave the house right now.
And agreed, it's unlikely it is that obvious. Still want to flip Umlaut first before really digging into that, but if Umlaut does flip scum, I think there is definitely one scum in Lukewarm/Gamma at least.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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VOTE: LukewarmIn post 1569, ChaosOmega wrote:It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.
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Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Math, I don't give a fuck what you think of my slot. There's a decent chance you're scum with Umlaut from his lazy weird distancing with you and you trying to derail his wagon early into D2 with 1283/1294/1296.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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And here is fishing trying to out my role. Let me switch, since I don't think there's enough support for Luke.In post 1675, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Guessing it has to do with what Umlaut flipped?In post 1659, ChaosOmega wrote:
VOTE: LukewarmIn post 1569, ChaosOmega wrote:It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.
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Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.
VOTE: Gamma
I think Gamma is more likely to flip traitor which is why I'm more interested in Luke, but scum is scum.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I'm not right on one of you obviously, I'm not sure which one. I don't think there's 3 scum + traitor. And your quoting of 1370 is disingenuous, your derailing was early in the day, you pivoted once the wagon was inevitable to look better.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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In post 1224, Umlaut wrote:Oh look I'm getting wagoned. I could jump on Chaos if it's him or me but I haven't seen any good reason to suspect him aside from "read this other game to see his meta" which I'm just not going to do.
This is a very weird line of thought. Why on earth would someone else thinking it's a weird kill mean it isn't one, scumread or not? What exactly is the connection here?In post 1212, MathBlade wrote:I really don’t like the fact me and a top scumread are both thinking it’s a weird kill so maybe it’s just not?In post 1234, MathBlade wrote:Chaos (2): Alchemist21 1176, Lukewarm 1177
Umlaut (2): ChaosOmega 1179, Datisi 1182, Gamma, Titus
not voting: Vulture, Umlaut, MathBlade, Aristeia, Not_Mafia
Now assume me and Ari are town like you’re implying.
Premise 1: Me + Ari are town.
Premise 2: There are likely 3 scum.
Premise 3: Excluding me and Ari the only non voters are Vulture, Umlaut, and Not Mafia.
Conclusion: Either the team is exactly Vulture Umlaut Not Mafia
Or
There is a scum in the naked voters
Or
A prior assumption Ari is town is wrong (technically the assumption I am town falls here but I know I am town so I am hand waving that away).
I am pretty sure in my Prism townread so I think there’s scum in the naked voters.
If there’s scum in the naked voters it becomes a matter of which wagon and why.
So I have a lot of premises built up and I am looking to figure out which premises are true.
Trying to play interpret the gif sucks.
Pedit: If this wagon situation wasn’t here you.
I may not understand what is going on but I don’t want to derail it until I find if there’s scum on it.In post 1283, MathBlade wrote:
VOTE: VultureIn post 1273, MathBlade wrote:
How so?In post 1268, Vulture wrote:Like more than just a vote on a wagon.
I reject binaries and substitute my own.
This over apologetic ness is a super old scum tell. I wanna see how Vulture is sorry.In post 1288, Datisi wrote:umlaut is scum, and the fact that there hasn't been an intent on him yet is very sad
anyway. i don't think i've ever seen titus use gifs before, so page 49 is weird to me. not scummy, just weird. lol.
1224 is bad. you'd think townlaut would, after a 4 day night, knowing he's done jack shit and will be suspected, at least have something to enter the game with? instead he's nitpicking something math said? nah
why? i hate being the one to say "why me", but you've given no indication that you thought i was scummy, other than "i'm throwing out all my reads" i guess, and even then that doesn't explain why you jump directly onto the possibility of me being scum, as opposed to. anyone else.In post 1240, Aristeia wrote:Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.
i'm getting townie pings on mathblade from the was he entered this dayphase and is trying to brute force sort out what is happening. anyone with more experience with him wanna tell me if this is likely to come from scum!him?In post 1294, MathBlade wrote:
Umlaut is a lurker. Why would he already be at intent? At the end of D1, a lot of people were spamming conditional reads on Umlaut assuming the alignment of others. How do you get from there to “Umlaut is scum zero discussion let’s gooooooo” and not only that a lot of people joined so far. Don’t get me wrong and this is no defense and I don’t mind moving on but if Umlaut is scum I would rather force him to give content here. The more you force a scum to talk the more content you get.In post 1288, Datisi wrote:umlaut is scum, and the fact that there hasn't been an intent on him yet is very sad
anyway. i don't think i've ever seen titus use gifs before, so page 49 is weird to me. not scummy, just weird. lol.
1224 is bad. you'd think townlaut would, after a 4 day night, knowing he's done jack shit and will be suspected, at least have something to enter the game with? instead he's nitpicking something math said? nah
why? i hate being the one to say "why me", but you've given no indication that you thought i was scummy, other than "i'm throwing out all my reads" i guess, and even then that doesn't explain why you jump directly onto the possibility of me being scum, as opposed to. anyone else.In post 1240, Aristeia wrote:Mostly cried and had paranoid thoughts about Datisi being a scumbag who's playing with my heart.
i'm getting townie pings on mathblade from the was he entered this dayphase and is trying to brute force sort out what is happening. anyone with more experience with him wanna tell me if this is likely to come from scum!him?
Datisi let me save you the trouble on the scum me question. Scum me and town me have similar metas I strive for it. I am good scum and can be the top town read in a 40p game. I am working on making my town game good. I brute sort as scum and town. I have enough scum games on here the answer to “have I done X as scum” the answer is probably yes. I use my prior scum games to explain pitfalls to avoid. But I think asking a really good scum player such as myself what is more likely means you’re probably getting bitten in the butt with assumptions as probably almost every player here has seen different sides of my scum game and only a few have seen me decent town.In post 1296, MathBlade wrote:1224 reads to me like someone entirely uninterested in the game not scummy. Many many times I have seen completely disinterested town and scum make similar posts. Ari also did the same sort of uninterested hop in but yet you pick on Umlaut why? I have as scum taken advantage of disinterested town to get a quick elim. We just had wagonpalooza D1 and now 4 people are confident sans case?
That reads one of two things neither of which are protown to share yet. Regardless I think a scum in Chaos, Datisi, Gamma, and Titus is quite high regardless of which explanation I go down.
Premise A: (Secret premise)
If Premise A is true then scum likely think Premise A is true and therefore would vote Umlaut.
If Premise A is not true then scum likely think they may get a free elim by hopping on without discussion like everyone else.In post 1297, MathBlade wrote:It’s rather telling that 1224 is the first attempt to explain Umlaut scum rather than using D1 and that’s after unexplained votes appeared.
To those of you who are that sure Umlaut is scum, why not go look back and see what was scummy D1?
Make a case of it.In post 1309, MathBlade wrote:Just skimmed Ari’s meta on the normal game first. (Yeah it looked simpler sue me)
VOTE: Chaos
Based on what I see there I am okay sheeping Ari while reading up Luke’s caseIn post 1340, MathBlade wrote:VOTE: Unvote
I think everyone posting by tone here is town which makes me back to my absurd theory Chaos and Umlaut are both scum but I am not sure that’s supported by the thread movement.
Game night is tonight but I will re-read what you’ve asked Datisi.
I am still just wondering why Umlaut has so many voters when the case on Chaos has much more evidence.
Makes me think scum are manufacturing resistance somewhere. I just can’t see the strings.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Also, you have no thoughts on them with a flipped scum that aren't dependent on my alignment? If you're town, you're pretty bad at mafia then.In post 1709, MathBlade wrote:
I did no such thing.In post 1708, ChaosOmega wrote:I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.
What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?
You’re more than welcome to try to argue that incorrectly.
My thoughts are dependent on your alignment.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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And you're saying Luke and Alch have no associatives other than with me?In post 1725, MathBlade wrote:
Then I am pretty bad at mafia because I hunt via associatives.In post 1723, ChaosOmega wrote:
Also, you have no thoughts on them with a flipped scum that aren't dependent on my alignment? If you're town, you're pretty bad at mafia then.In post 1709, MathBlade wrote:
I did no such thing.In post 1708, ChaosOmega wrote:I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.
What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?
You’re more than welcome to try to argue that incorrectly.
My thoughts are dependent on your alignment.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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So if my wagon wasn't pushed more even though I'm town, what does that tell you? You said if I flip scum Gamma and Luke are town, what reads of yours change if I flip town?In post 1735, MathBlade wrote:
No I am saying that those associatives are dependent upon your flip.In post 1734, ChaosOmega wrote:
And you're saying Luke and Alch have no associatives other than with me?In post 1725, MathBlade wrote:
Then I am pretty bad at mafia because I hunt via associatives.In post 1723, ChaosOmega wrote:
Also, you have no thoughts on them with a flipped scum that aren't dependent on my alignment? If you're town, you're pretty bad at mafia then.In post 1709, MathBlade wrote:
I did no such thing.In post 1708, ChaosOmega wrote:I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.
What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?
You’re more than welcome to try to argue that incorrectly.
My thoughts are dependent on your alignment.
There’s a lot of people who play and pull at strings.
How the prior day played out changed significantly based on your alignment.
If it’s SvS then you’re a scum PR so scum sacrificed Umlaut.
If it’s SvT then for some reason your wagon wasn’t pushed more.
What pushes are towny/scummy are literally dependent on your alignment
VOTE: Chaos
Since it’s not hammer anymoreIs it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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If I had more results that I thought were relevant to claim, I would have.In post 1742, Lukewarm wrote:
I uh missed this.In post 1662, Datisi wrote:i thought the "umlaut, i was townreading you all of d1, now i'm voting you on d2" was very clear. which is also why i had a slight panic reaction this morning when i saw you were at an unannounced y-2.
@chaos, anyone with changed or maybe more confident read on today versus yesterday?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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You've been wrong this whole game, why stop now?In post 1755, Alchemist21 wrote:
This post only makes me even more sure that you’re scum.In post 1708, ChaosOmega wrote:I voted scum all day D2, you tried to derail their lim. Your posts seem to suck worse than mine on a surface level glance.
What are your thoughts on Alch and Luke?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Math, don't be dense.In post 1786, MathBlade wrote:
There were six naked votes.In post 1782, Datisi wrote:
this, coupled with the naked lolvote at the start, looked like a pr soft to meIn post 1293, ChaosOmega wrote:Umlaut, I was town reading you all D1 and then naked voted you to start D2, do you find that suspicious at all?
Are you suggesting two people got guilties on Chaos and four on Umlaut?
And invest PRs don’t check townreads either. They check null or scumreads.
And maybe I didn't actually tell him the truth when I said I was townreading him all D1, and he was more null to me.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Said Mathblade incorrectly.In post 1871, MathBlade wrote:
Imho incorrect. Scum still have to shoot there if Chaos is town.In post 1868, Datisi wrote:
no. my theory is chaos is a town power role. if he's something like a town cop, then they have to shoot him. if he's something like a 1-shot tracker, then they most likely don't have to shoot him because the town will do the job for them, or at least keep being distracted by him. by keeping scum ~in the dark~, they have to gamble.In post 1865, MathBlade wrote:Your theory is scum have to shoot Chaos.
If your theory is right they have to shoot Chaos regardless of what Chaos claims right?
he said his results aren't useful. which means we don't actually get anything extra to act upon, we just let scum know where they have to fire tonight.
Assume Chaos is town, then he de facto becomes innocent child depending upon what he claims. It’s not so much the future results it’s past precedent. At this point it’s not about results it’s about giving scum no place to hide.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Why didn't Umlaut hammer here? Must be town oh wait.In post 1975, MathBlade wrote:
We know Meg is town here at this point.In post 605, tris wrote:
Want to assume I am scum incorrectly here? Why don’t I hammer?
Same with Alch and Luke.
These are the questions that have to be answered with narrative.
Also, you, Alch, and Luke were all on the wagon when it went through, so I don't fully get your point here?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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You seem to be coming from a premise that scum here would almost always hammer in this situation, I don't know why.
That VC was in a gap of his posting, his last post before is throwing mild shade on the wagon, when he posts again the wagon isn't at E-1.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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If you're saying that town or scum would hammer there, it sounds like the premises you're coming in with are wrong, because nobody hammered. QED
Unless you're saying we're all SK's, which sounds awesome.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I feel not great about him, it feels like his read progressions just sort of stopped and he's locked on me, and his defense using his interaction with Umlaut early early D1 reads weird. Let me go back through his ISO.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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As for the Alch ISO read:
117 is interesting now that we have a mafia neighbor flip. Alch is the first person to bring up neighborhoods. I am still working on the assumption that this setup is trolly in some way, so maybe both neighbors are scum? Neighbors just seem like a weird thing to bring up, but this could be nothing.
Umlaut-Alch back and forth from 225 to 242. Umlaut doesn't mention Alch in either of his mini read posts (199/330) even after the interaction with him.
Luke-Alch interaction 1111-1114/1146 (more a note for myself)
Alch kept saying Umlaut is scum but I'm scummier and trying to push people to my wagon (1324/1327/1453/1478/1481)
I mentioned it previously, but his defense in 1931 by quoting his interactions with Umlaut on page 2 is silly. It's a low risk time to try to distance, and also literally nothing came of it, I don't understand trying to get towncred from interacting with scum page 2 and then not mentioning them until D2, saying they're scum, but never voting them and trying to make a different wagon happen.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I ignored that question because it just seemed like you were trying to figure out if you should NK me or not by trying to narrow down what I am.In post 2095, Lukewarm wrote:Neither. I would not say that I town read him but I am also hesitant on killing him. it all boils down to "do I believe the pr claim" which I was trying to get to the bottom of by asking him a question earlier, but instead of talking to me he just voted me again, so .... Yeah
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Alch isn't my top choice, but I'm fine with this lim. You're at NM-1, I would claim.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I'm holding off voting for right now, waiting for Lukewarm's catchup. Alch not giving any reads and just going "maybe this person's theory is right, idk" feels not great. He also hasn't really mentioned Gamma at all and now he's in his solve, is this just a sheep of Koba's thoughts or do you see something there you don't like?Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I'm not really feeling Koba as scum here. They had opportunity to mislim me D2 and D3 and didn't, and also probably would not have gotten a lot of heat for it.
Need to read back through some of the posts here, but I'm busy at work today, so this might have to wait until tomorrow.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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I'm an informed gunsmith. N1 Umlaut has a gun, N2 Koba no gun, N3 Gamma has a gun.
I am informed that only one mafia has a gun, which is why I've been bringing up traitors throughout the game.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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VOTE: Lukewarm
If you think I'm scum, that means town's only power is a loyal jailkeeper and a shot-limited in some way rolecop. Some of the newbie setups have more power than that. I know with an extremely likely at this point traitor that town will not be as strong (and I'm biased obviously because I know I'm town), but there's no way we just have 2 PRs, especially of the ones that were claimed.
My PoE is Luke > Math > Ari > N_M.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80157
Just throwing it out there that the person who is running this game ran a game previously with a town doctor and town jailkeeper. This is to say, I don't understand the points Math is making.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Agreed Datisi, this is more arguing the point by Math that there's no way a town doc and JK can be in a mini normal, his setup spec and odds calculations are biased around what he thinks is balanced, and I don't think he has a good handle on it.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Cool, then keep talking about setup spec and why this isn't balanced for the next 10 pages, should be super productive.
I'll be over here voting Luke trying to actually win the game, and then you can bitch to mastina post-game.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Yep, you caught me, shaking in my boots over here.Not_Mafia wrote:
Sounds like someone wants us to avoid questioning the set-upIn post 3050, ChaosOmega wrote:Cool, then keep talking about setup spec and why this isn't balanced for the next 10 pages, should be super productive.
I'll be over here voting Luke trying to actually win the game, and then you can bitch to mastina post-game.
You can all do whatever you like, I just have opinions on how useful it is/reading it makes me want to stop reading it and do something more fun like my taxes. To be clear, I'm not talking about setup spec in general, I am specifically referring to all the shit Math is posting.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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Said Mathblade incorrectly.In post 3079, MathBlade wrote:Ah fair enough.
So chaos has to be scum or Titus is.
I don’t think Titus is so Chaos by PoE.Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!- ChaosOmega
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