Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

This is a full claim besides my character name which I will happily provide if asked.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Have you read yet, Rhiannon?

Nope. We were originally going to give this game to Niamh, since she loves Katia. But Niamh was pretty disappointed at it all, so we've agreed I'm the one playing. That said, I can't say I'm really MORE excited to be doing this game at this point. Just less disappointed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Likelihood of Rhia lying about role is zero

JJH adding negative utility to town to fux with them also decently high

Binned

Not a big problem or anything, but can you use Rhi or Rhiannon for me. Rhia is too close to Rhea, who is a different person in here, and we like to keep distinct at most times, but especially for Mafia Games.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...Fuck. I know the mod didn't know the implications and hasn't read the novels but FUCK that's a rough ass draw for such an important character.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhh. I mean. Fire Magic. Trans Icon. Political Genius. Steadfast and Loyal, to the point where she broke the mindcontrol on her own to let someone kill her to not kill him. I mean, these are all in the anime. There's more in the novels but that feels unreasonable to expect anyone to read >.>

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's never better to hide, generally. Go out blazing, and if others blaze too, it becomes hard for Mafia to put out that many fires.

That said, no blazing for us this game, lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

And what about my other question. As far as you know, you aren't Miller-esque towards scans, correct?

As far as I know, I scan town on cop-like effects but may scan scum to motion based effects (motion detector, watcher, tracker).

Know that I have no night actions I can take myself, so if I ever go anywhere, if anyone sees me do anything, it's scum using me for NK.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My mistake madam

Cabd do you always put the cart before the horse?

And the mouth before the foot.

Not sure you realize the extreme distress secondhand I'm seeing here, but it's her story to explain.

Yeah it uh, sucks. You're actually getting it third hand because I'm getting it second hand, as it were?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Toogaloo

Actually scum. I wasn't sure before, the opening was bad but the impassioned plea was good.

But that's kind of mask off paranoia creation at inception that scum does to reduce confidence in town reads.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you think the exhaustive mix or light and heat you're emitting could get someone speedwagoned?

Do you want to try it? I wouldn't test your faith as scum here

Nobody has Cakez'd yet. I'll let you, and the thread, know. Loudly. Repeatedly. Mockingly. Annoyingly.

Not true. Toog scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Toogaloo

Actually scum. I wasn't sure before, the opening was bad but the impassioned plea was good.

But that's kind of mask off paranoia creation at inception that scum does to reduce confidence in town reads.

Oh look, omgus.

?

Are you voting me? Have you expressed a read on my slot? Have you said anything except "it's too early to town read LLD (in particular) for this"?

If I missed it, quote it. Otherwise, how is this OMGUS? I'll be awaiting your answer so I can run it up the flagpole for everyone to see.

Don't feel envious though, you're getting run up the flagpole right behind it very soon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, I expressed you shouldn't be town read easily, you think I suck for that and vote me. It's not letter of the law omgus, but pretty darn close. You feel slighted because I questioned why someone else pocketed you.

I know you know better than this. I recognize you're now backpedaling for an answer to make it fit, but I know you know better than this.

This dies today. No questions. Cabd?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey friends! gonna claim cos its kind of important. im a doublevoter who kills a random townie if their second vote isnt on the lim wagon. i cannot move the second vote after placing it so i will probably be the one to hammer from here on out.

im super excited to play w everyone!!!

bringing this 2 new page just in case

I abjectly refuse to allow you to hammer anything.

You can have the second to last vote and we can coordinate that. But I refuse to allow you to hammer.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which means that the crumb does not make sense unless I point to it. Isn't that like, the point of a crumb?

That just makes you a target

In fact, talking about this sort of invalidates the point you're trying to make with a crumb. It is indeed used to allude back to, but only when you have ready information or something to speak on

Why even mention this

You're the one who brought it up my dude

No, you literally open posted "RIP at my role" or something in your first post. That's not a crumb that's.... you brought it up. Now it's evidence in this class trial (Kappa) so deal with it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey friends! gonna claim cos its kind of important. im a doublevoter who kills a random townie if their second vote isnt on the lim wagon. i cannot move the second vote after placing it so i will probably be the one to hammer from here on out.

im super excited to play w everyone!!!

bringing this 2 new page just in case

I abjectly refuse to allow you to hammer anything.

You can have the second to last vote and we can coordinate that. But I refuse to allow you to hammer.

do you have a specific reasoning for this? if so please outline it

I do! I think you may be scum using my role claim as cover to do this play, where your role really cares about being the hammering vote on wagons to gain power.

It's a minor thought, maybe less than 10 or even 5 percent.

But if it IS true, it's always scum, so I refuse to allow you to hammer. Once we decide who dies, you can have 2nd to last vote, with your unmovable vote. But not hammer.

Shouldn't make any difference to you, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Everyone ready to go to jail for a few decades for killing an endangered species of panda?

Cause I am.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Interested how? Also, name names?

It looked like you were pushing back at LLD to me.

Look at my iso, you can see who I quoted.

"Name names!"

"Look at my ISO and come up with names for me, I didn't really think about this part."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Can we kill the Panda please?

I want to see what's black and white and red all over

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just want a Manatee full claim at this point tbh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i'd be ok w fullclaiming tbh im not sure i have a role i feel comfortable managing on my own

At this point the signals you are putting up are a big risk and I don't wanna fuck around with that shit so just full claim it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

if the target of my second vote isnt the lim for the day they die. if they are i get a vig shot at night

This is COMPELTELY different to your original claim WTAF

Wait what the fuck is this role? Hello?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That role seems completely busted.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

Wondering what if scum didnt know who you were and the only way to break the brainwash is if they try to target you with the brainwashed kill :/

I feel like I'd just... die in that circumstance, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Didn't know the VC was wrong until GiF said he wasn't the L-2 vote. In fact I didn't even see the vote count. I just saw the vote, and I was already keeping track in my head.

I don't really town read anyone on my wagon. Y'all are a bunch of opportunistic mother huggers.

Anyways, since unwnd claimed intent, I'll go ahead and claim that my role is confirmable, and that I crumbed my flavor in my first and second post, Sadou Maou.

Can we put this terrible half claim back to L-1 to force this slot to full claim?

And then can we kill DGB for not wanting to kill this terrible claim despite me knowing she knows way better and wanting to kill posts like this is super in her range and she's not doing it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I wanna kill Toog, then DGB, and then Kate Bishop, in that order.

That's my scum team. Lock it in. Do I have Cleudo?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

bam

VOTE: ManateeGal

Like this vote is terrible.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

{Dunn.......Cabd, GIF}
{Rhiannon, DGB(?)} DGB feels right on this tier but it's not as solid other reads to this point
{Wheme, marci.......manatee} niggles about manatee's role, but eh
{Unwnd} true null
{Luke}
{ssbm, Toog(?)}

---------------------

This is synced, but my reads are awfully fluid.

Toog's in flux. I feel like he's doing AI stuff now, maybe? Most of his posts from that LLD sus onward haven't sat right. I have a feeling Nacho would tell me this is town toog, but I never totally nailed down what makes town toog town to Nacho.

Maybe ssbm is where I'll want to vote.

And this post is full of holes and putting UNWND at TRUE NULL right now is Red Flag city.

As is putting Toog at the bottom of your list and then saying "Maybe I wanna vote SSBM"

Nope nope nope nope nope.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote us then.

Nah, I've got bigger scummier fish to fry. Besides, if you ARE scum with Toog, it's gonna be way harder to kill you today in this town and you know that.

If anything, you saying this is the one thing I expected you to do as scum, because it's better for you here.

But I'm pretty happy to deny your gambit, as one might say.

I HAVE CAUGHT UP

DUNNSTRAL IS MY STRONGEST TOWN READ

VOTE: Kate bishop

Sry ffery

No no no. Not the time. Toog first. I want a full claim from NewspaperBear

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ah yes, I fell for your classic blunder

You got us!

Pack it up boys time to concede

Never challenge a Sicilian when death is on the line?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ah yes, I fell for your classic blunder

You got us!

Pack it up boys time to concede

No but seriously, if you're town I don't see a good reason to tank myself onto you when I'm much more convinced of Toog beign scum.

And if you're scum, I don't see a reason to try and kill you, lose my momentum and have people like Cabd decide that you're not dying today.

I'm uninterested in either outcome, since they're both bad for me, and thus, the town.

So I'm denying the gambit. I'm happy to piledrive Toog into the ground and dust him before moving on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just think it’s funny you think there’s a chance we don’t die by nightkill this game tbh

I mean, there is a chance you're scum... which would preclude you from being killed at night.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I get what this is. Are you trying to be rude or insult me? It's not really working. Here, maybe call me a bitch? Oh, or you could try telling me I lack the brain cells or something.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean come on! You've got a thousand nasty things you could say and you're choosing to go "I just think it's funny that you're too stupid to understand we're obviously dying at night this game, god."

Weaksauce.

Put some OOMPH behind that condescension. Really eviscerate me for daring to scum read you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Or, wait, am I ruining this for you? Am I meant to not like it? Should I pretend? I'll pretend.

Oh no! I'm really upset and hurt that you think I'm too dumb to understand this! I'm going to be upset and cry and then I won't ever ever suspect you again.

Did I do it right? Sorry, I'm kind of a bad actor.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Some of us don’t get their kicks off being nasty. Clearly not a universal belief.

Ah yes.

I'm

being nasty to

you

.

A novel concept, why didn't I think of this before? In so far as I never insulted you, kept to your play and for the mere crime of thinking you're scum, by golly I've done it again.

I've just been so awful. Won't you forgive me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cutting the bullshit, I'm pretty tired of being told that somehow I'm doing something wrong for suspecting you.

Or that I'm some kind of laughable idiot for thinking differently than you, or what you think is obvious.

Or that it's okay to speak to me in that way just because I scum read you and chose not to vote you.

I entered this with good faith and an attempt to play the game. You've made playing the game harder. I'd like it if you would stop.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and also, if it wasn't understood that I'm not Niamh or Rhea, try imagining them reacting like that to this kind of thing.

I'm trying myself, and it's kind of making me crack up. I don't think they could do it without getting angry, tbh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mooooooving forward (hah, cow joke. Get it? Because I like/identify with cows? No? Boo.)

I think DGB's vote is bad because DGB is a player whom I think knows way better than to vote Manatee for doing that kind of schtick, and would have jumped all over Toog for his claim. I just think DGB is super out of character here and in ways that support a possible scummy agenda.

I think Kate Bishop is scummy because their reads list makes no sense and reads more like something fabricated to achieve a goal (the goal of looking like a real reads list, being town read and finding a townie to kill) over something genuinely formed. I really take the most issue with the Unwnd true neutral read because I can't imagine seeing Unwnd who is really polarizing this game as true neutral.

Also having Toog that low but wanting to vote SSBM. That's another bad mark in my book.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

at least someone's having fun.

ffery head's out for tonight.

possibly tomorrow. we'll see.

Ditto.

Mmhmm. Okay, we're going to be serious for a moment here. I don't know if you're trying to make me feel guilty purposefully or if it's just a passive effect of how you're feeling, but unlike the rest of my sisters I don't have issues identifying when I've done right and when I've done wrong.

A statement like this would have someone like Niamh feeling really bad for about a week straight thinking she had done something wrong to deserve this kind of guilt trip.

I, on the other hand, just went back and reviewed every post in our interaction, and have determined that at the beginning of it, I was speaking about your posts in a analytical manner and trying to interact with you in terms of the game and why I felt the way I did.

To which you replied with "lmao" to someone voting you. "Vote me then" to someone scum reading you. Mockery to my real concern (and compliment) that you will be harder to kill than Toog.

And then insulted my intelligence by insinuating that I was too stupid to understand that you were town and obviously being night killed this game, and that it was indeed funny how stupid I was.

To which I responded sarcastically to point out you were being unfair and unkind, and also to make you feel uncomfortable with having done it. I don't regret that.

And then finally addressed your insult directly and asked you to cease doing it in the future.

From my examination of these events, I feel I have nothing to feel guilty over, but perhaps I do feel bad for considering that you might do this intentionally. We're meant to be friends, so maybe I'm not supposed to do that?

But frankly, after you insulted me, it's a little hard to maintain my good faith that you aren't also guilt tripping me. So I'd like to ask you to stop doing that if you're doing it intentionally, or if not, then I apologize for assuming/insinuating you were, and I'd like to ask you to be more considerate with how you word things.

Thanks and have a wonderful evening.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

at least someone's having fun.

ffery head's out for tonight.

possibly tomorrow. we'll see.

Oh, and one final thought before I move back into making game posts, I swear this is the last one.

But if someone suspecting you as scum makes the game unfun for you, I'm uncertain what to tell you. On a personal note, I don't know you more than by reputation, which is a fairly positive one, hence my desire not to try and kill you before Toog.

On a less personal note, if I'm wrong you have 11 other people... er, guess more like 8-9? depending on if you think I'm scum? People to convince of your innocence. And also possibly me. And scum to find. People will be wrong on you at times. That's part of this. If I'm wrong on you, I don't deserve this kind of derision you've provided me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay, I've said all I want to say about that!

Let's go through the game and pull some strong town reads out of my ass, shall I?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is going to be a BEAST of a game.

Greetings, not-so-gentle-beings.

ffs @ my role

Trying to rush me down so that you can get a big neighborhood eh?

You're too slow, GiF.

I've already got my page 1 townread.

It'smedotjaypag

Logically it has to be me or luke then, since everyone else's content sucks

:/

My snoopy heart breaks.

It most definitely wasn't, that was one notsci post and one fferypost, and i'd bet a significant amount of funds on it.

Or vice versa and I'm a dummy dummy who has a dumb face, but either way it wasn't both notsci or both ffery!

Urg, first attempt failed, though not for great reasons.

Cabd's early interactions range from neutral to light positive, and their DGB/Kate Bishop interactions read like a townie approaching it. So I have good town vibes. However, the fact he knows me and gets why I (and Niamh) might be sad/upset that our Role PM turned out so miserable, the symapthy there also rang town... which is an issue. I'm going to have a hard time ever feeling comfortable town reading him strongly with that on the resume as one of the main things.

So I need to drop it and space backwards towards other things. I'll see how Cabd takes my reads in the morning, maybe I'll find more town nuggets from him.

But for the moment, Cabd is not strong town the way I am looking for (but he does look town).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GIF on the weak side of strong town. A lot of really solid posts, mixed with a lot of professional lazyness. But a lot of the solid posts are things that are pretty easy to say as scum too, they just flowed very naturally from GIF.

So I'm pretty okay having this is my strong townreads but it's one with a star next to it to re-evaluate more as we move forward, I suspect.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Reads coming tonight

p.edit: I am aware it is now Wednesday morning. I need to type a load of things up still so that they exist digitally, with the aim of that being asap

p.edit: Apologies as this has taken longer than I thought but I

will

have everything wrapped up by the end of the day and ready to go

p.edit: It's all there now, just giving some time for a once over and I expect reads to go out in the next 12 hours.

VOTE: Toogeloo

Their openers as town are usually more distinct, from experience, and tend to relate to their own role or the actual game. Here they talk about the delay but that is it.

I think Dunn doing this humour bit means Dunn is comfortable and relaxed in this game. Combine this with Dunn being on Toog before I am, I'm okay with Dunn in strong town. Obviously, if Toog is green, I reconsider all my reads, but I'm not sure a Toog Green here even is that bad for Dunn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

Wondering what if scum didnt know who you were and the only way to break the brainwash is if they try to target you with the brainwashed kill :/

SSBM's ISO is 7 posts long. 6 of them have nothing to do with the game, and this one screams town to me. This reads like the thought process of a townie who suddenly thought of this horrible thing and had to share it, not considering how it would be taken.

There's not enough here to hard townbin SSBM, but this is pretty close all things considered. It also makes scum reads on SSBM look much worse, because they've done NOTHING of consequence.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

K. Unwnd is just town. Sorry. Hard town read. I'm sure there will be people who disagree (see: When I called Unwnd polarizing) but I'm gonna have a hard time unseeing what I've seen here. Good mix of humour with real scumhunting, makes me feel like unwnd is comfortable and grooving and not fabricating as he goes. There's a lack of stiffness to Unwnd's posts, is the best way to put it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Got nothing on the 7 post Whemestar.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Marci's nervousness reads extremely real, mostly because I don't think she needs to bring it up as a gambit.

I'm not sure it says anything about her alignment though. I think the nervousness is just true despite her alignment, not informed by it.

That said, Marci is more on the positive side of town than the null people. There's something about the early game posts she made when she was shooting the shit that reads town to me. Not really strong, but I'm into it...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can't hard townread Luke. He looks TVT in his thing with Unwnd but he also comes out strictly looking worse than Unwnd in that interaction. If I'm GTH, Luke's town, probably. But I'd not ever want that gun against my head right this moment.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GIF, Dunn, Manatee, Unwnd are hard town.
SSBM, Cabd are higher tier of town.
Luke Marci on the light side of town, close to neutral, but not Null.
Wheme is a fucking mystery to me.
Kate could be town but makes a lot of sense as scum if my reads and current world view are right, so they're here.
DGB just doesn't make a lick of sense. I wonder if DGB and Kate can really be scum together after that DGB post early on. Maybe I need to consider this?
Toog is a hard scum read, I need to get a real full claim of this "confirmable" role to decide what to do with him, though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

There we go. That's my current world view, and I think what it tells me most is that I have a decent grasp of the game, but am almost certainly wrong on at least one scum. I'm struggling to internalize a reason why DGB does what she does at Kate as partners. And given I don't have a good third option for scum right now... it means I'm overlooking someone's flaws, or they haven't posted enough for me to see them yet. Which is why I really only trust my top layer as town, and even them there's variance.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay it's time for me to sleep! Ciao!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey Cabd let's talk about how annoyed I am.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sure, shoot.

I feel a lot like it doesn't appear to matter how we react to being insulted over our reads. People used to tell us it's that we got angry, but I explicitly took a road without anger, and that's somehow a problem too.

It almost feels like I'm not allowed to express scum reads on certain players in the game, lest I be:

-Insulted
-Ignored
-Treated Poorly
-Blamed

So what am I meant to do, huh? How am I supposed to enjoy a game where my role is already garbage and I can't even have fun with the night play, and now the day play is impossible too because bucking up to arrogant insults is met with

"You know, Rhi, Fferyslot just becomes obvious town eventually, so you're in the wrong"

What should I do, huh? What am I meant to do?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's definitely becoming a larger problem. I noticed is mostly with bell in the last game, but "You aren't allowed to scum read me lol and it's a pox on your house if you do" is completely against the idea of the game of mafia. People get to live inside their heads and know their role PMs but like, you can't expect everyone to have that luxury.

Being wrong is a thing that happens. By definition, a LOT in a game like this.

At the risk of making your hair stand on end for what is explicitly a blatant buddying attempt: Wanna just be in thread neighbors for a while? I for one am open to hearing about your take on fferysci. As the game that shall not be named showed, my reads aren't ALWAYS xenoblade tier perfect. Maybe I'm missing something major that you're seeing.

Accepting this offer feels like I'm taking a devil's bargain, but I'm not gonna lie, I don't have a whole lot of other places to turn, so sure, why not.

I work best answering questions, so I'll start by answering about Kate. Beyond the post I made last time, detailing how I felt their reads list was out of wack, I also find it really really hard to be suspicious of SSBM, especially after I woke up to new posts from them. That slot earned their town read again, not just a gimmicky post that feels town to me.

So when I look at the reads and we've got DGB so high, SSBM so low and Toog floating in a position of catbox where they can act how they need to... there's no risk and no edge to the reads. Kate's reads and posts, beyond the confrontation with me, read in such a way that they are more concerned with what looks town, than who is scum.

Part of why Kate is above DGB and Toog on my reads list is because I have this worry that "looking town" might actually be more neutral for them than other slots because of this thing I just talked with you about. That they feel they should always be townread so the goal is simply just to look town.. But even if I ignore that, the reads are still all over the place. Unwnd on true Null is a problem for me. I don't care if you scum or townread Unwnd, I can't find a way you look at Unwnd's 43 posts and go "yep this is neutral" but then look at SSBM's 7 posts as of the Kate reads list and go "yep this is scum". Same with Wheme. Having a read on wheme but true null on Unwnd is truly baffling to me.

None of it makes a lick of sense.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

"You know, Rhi, Fferyslot just becomes obvious town eventually, so you're in the wrong"

If this was about my post, I merely meant that I wasn’t interested in discerning her alignment this early.
I am not scumreading her atm but I am not townreading her either.

Basically putting it on hold rather than handwaving.

And for what reason are you putting it on hold, if not that you feel "Ffery+Notsci will become obvious X later".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My interpretation of the conflict between you two (Rhi and Kate) is that Kate feels righteous in not being scumread because they are town. Obviously, this can be faked, so you want to prod them further. Kate shuts this down by affirming it's

you

who has the responsibility to read them right, therefore they don't have to change anything. This leaves you frustrated and antagonized.

This is mostly accurate, though I need to add that in the process of feeling righteous in not being scumread, the post they made implied that I was simply too stupid to understand how town they were, and that they would obviously be night killed this game for how townie they are, and that they need to laugh at me for indeed thinking such a foolish thing as them being scum.

That's what bothered me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

devil's bargain

In fairness, last time this happened was the Unwnd Large?

Which game was this? I'm not sure I've ever had a deal with you like this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think their haughtiness (esp for Notty) bodes well for them being town. It's a shallow read but given that I was able to get a beat onto Notty eventually like Bloodstained, I'm OK with it. What do you exactly scumread? Their attitude, or the fact you are in contention with their reads? I skimmed a bit of your wall and rest assured I skim a lot of walls and just pick out details that seem important to me.

I'm concerned that you think any of my posts in this game have been walls, Unwnd.

I made two different posts detailing my reasons for scumreading them, including one on the last page. Reading is tech, Unwnd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which of you played in yggdrassil?

My attempts to remember this game leave blanks so certainly not me. My money is on Niamh, I think.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Just so you know Rhi one of your reads I really agree with but haha I'm just not dynamic this game nosiree

Did I ever say you were not dynamic? I've called you polarizing, but that's on a read perspective that others should have stronger reads on you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Okay yeah so it wasn't you, but she did something similar in a game not too long ago!

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12793780

One look at that posting has convinced me 100% that game was Niamh. "Clownfuck central". God.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(she was scum and I was town so it made me laugh when you used the term devil's bargain)

I see. Do you want to continue?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Spoiler: The Hood PT for LLD and Cabd, no Kates allowed

So yeah, I totally get where you're coming from WRT the high strung how dare yous. It cost us the game, somewhat, in that one I refuse to acknowledge, because Bell was soooooo smug about being town and having a notsci town tell that he got completely ridden over by a tiny bit of effort to leave the scum range from notsci.

I did like the reaction to some nuggets of knowledge I handed out to ffery. I feel like her townbinning me "for now" is a over-correction to how terribly ~bastardgamegrrrhere~ went and that it will probably mean-revert to a happy medium. In some ways the early and eager townbinning of me WOULD be alarming if not for that context.

They are not "out of ranges" by any means. And being smug about their current body of work is not warranted. I have gotten the feeling the smugness is more that they feel they can be smug about their ability to get more townread over time, though.

Spoiler:

This tracks for me, and as I've mentioned I've just got no interest in pursuing them today, not at the moment at least.

As I brought up though, I felt them daring me to vote them was partially that arrogant confidence and partially them knowing that if I did it would derail the push all together. It feels like every time I look at them I can see scum motivation in the actions that is saddled beside arrogant confidence in their ability to be read as town.

If I approach in good faith, I feel like I have to find them scum. Because the only way I find them town is if I approach in bad faith and start assuming they're being like this for the reasons you've described. It's part of what bothers me, because I'd like to stay in good faith?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Spoiler: The Hood PT for LLD and Cabd, no Kates allowed

So yeah, I totally get where you're coming from WRT the high strung how dare yous. It cost us the game, somewhat, in that one I refuse to acknowledge, because Bell was soooooo smug about being town and having a notsci town tell that he got completely ridden over by a tiny bit of effort to leave the scum range from notsci.

I did like the reaction to some nuggets of knowledge I handed out to ffery. I feel like her townbinning me "for now" is a over-correction to how terribly ~bastardgamegrrrhere~ went and that it will probably mean-revert to a happy medium. In some ways the early and eager townbinning of me WOULD be alarming if not for that context.

They are not "out of ranges" by any means. And being smug about their current body of work is not warranted. I have gotten the feeling the smugness is more that they feel they can be smug about their ability to get more townread over time, though.

Spoiler:

This tracks for me, and as I've mentioned I've just got no interest in pursuing them today, not at the moment at least.

As I brought up though, I felt them daring me to vote them was partially that arrogant confidence and partially them knowing that if I did it would derail the push all together. It feels like every time I look at them I can see scum motivation in the actions that is saddled beside arrogant confidence in their ability to be read as town.

If I approach in good faith, I feel like I have to find them scum. Because the only way I find them town is if I approach in bad faith and start assuming they're being like this for the reasons you've described. It's part of what bothers me, because I'd like to stay in good faith?

Spoiler: Moar

But first, more blatant emotional processing stuff....

I literally fist pumped when I saw the mechanical part of your claim in that it makes you town but then I put two and two together about your literal favorite isekeai character and it was a chain reaction of the grin dropping from my face into horror when I realized the implications. Generally speaking people pick who they pick in a upick game to have their favorite character done justice. I can't speak for the mod himself as I don't live in his head, but I'm SPECULATING that no research was done besides watching the first few episodes of the anime where Katria shows up. <end>

Right now, you still want Toog to die a death, yes? What do you make of WhemeStar's reaction to Marci's posting, and do you want to talk more about marci herself? She might be an important read this game for several reasons.

Spoiler:

I want Toog to full claim and not this half claim garbage, or die. Toog is sufficiently suspicious that this "i have a confirmable role" nonsense is worrying.

What I think it might mean is Toog has a rolecop. Which I don't think it particularly town. Infact I have a hard time thinking of a "confirmable" role that is indeed townie for Toog in this perspective. But especially the half claim that was done was very bad.

I think Wheme's zeal is kind of weird, but I think explicitly asking me if they can vote Marci codes town for me. I just think it's a very realistic trajectory for them.

Marci... Talk to me about Marci because this intimidation factor has me concerned people might read it as scum when it's an easy person to kill, but I don't have a strong town read there by any means.

Also, yes. It's a lot more than just a shame about our role but we're trying not to make JJH feel too bad about it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want Toog to full claim and not this half claim garbage, or die.

Well then die it is. My full claim on Day 1, 18 hours in is more damaging to my game. Sorry, not sorry.

Die it is, then!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Spoiler: The Hood PT for LLD and Cabd, no Kates allowed

So yeah, I totally get where you're coming from WRT the high strung how dare yous. It cost us the game, somewhat, in that one I refuse to acknowledge, because Bell was soooooo smug about being town and having a notsci town tell that he got completely ridden over by a tiny bit of effort to leave the scum range from notsci.

I did like the reaction to some nuggets of knowledge I handed out to ffery. I feel like her townbinning me "for now" is a over-correction to how terribly ~bastardgamegrrrhere~ went and that it will probably mean-revert to a happy medium. In some ways the early and eager townbinning of me WOULD be alarming if not for that context.

They are not "out of ranges" by any means. And being smug about their current body of work is not warranted. I have gotten the feeling the smugness is more that they feel they can be smug about their ability to get more townread over time, though.

Spoiler:

This tracks for me, and as I've mentioned I've just got no interest in pursuing them today, not at the moment at least.

As I brought up though, I felt them daring me to vote them was partially that arrogant confidence and partially them knowing that if I did it would derail the push all together. It feels like every time I look at them I can see scum motivation in the actions that is saddled beside arrogant confidence in their ability to be read as town.

If I approach in good faith, I feel like I have to find them scum. Because the only way I find them town is if I approach in bad faith and start assuming they're being like this for the reasons you've described. It's part of what bothers me, because I'd like to stay in good faith?

Spoiler: Moar

But first, more blatant emotional processing stuff....

I literally fist pumped when I saw the mechanical part of your claim in that it makes you town but then I put two and two together about your literal favorite isekeai character and it was a chain reaction of the grin dropping from my face into horror when I realized the implications. Generally speaking people pick who they pick in a upick game to have their favorite character done justice. I can't speak for the mod himself as I don't live in his head, but I'm SPECULATING that no research was done besides watching the first few episodes of the anime where Katria shows up. <end>

Right now, you still want Toog to die a death, yes? What do you make of WhemeStar's reaction to Marci's posting, and do you want to talk more about marci herself? She might be an important read this game for several reasons.

Spoiler:

I want Toog to full claim and not this half claim garbage, or die. Toog is sufficiently suspicious that this "i have a confirmable role" nonsense is worrying.

What I think it might mean is Toog has a rolecop. Which I don't think it particularly town. Infact I have a hard time thinking of a "confirmable" role that is indeed townie for Toog in this perspective. But especially the half claim that was done was very bad.

I think Wheme's zeal is kind of weird, but I think explicitly asking me if they can vote Marci codes town for me. I just think it's a very realistic trajectory for them.

Marci... Talk to me about Marci because this intimidation factor has me concerned people might read it as scum when it's an easy person to kill, but I don't have a strong town read there by any means.

Also, yes. It's a lot more than just a shame about our role but we're trying not to make JJH feel too bad about it.

Spoiler: MOAR of MOAR

In general I think this game should be played like it's smalltown, as I mentioned earlier, because EVERY role is confirm-able in some way is the feeling I've gotten. I think unwnd mentioned this as well about treating it like all vanilla.

Setting aside Toog, I think that Marci is one of my strongest townreads here, and I didn't expect that but sometimes RNJESUS comes at you fast, just like life. As for why, up until this afternoon, I'd have said because she is nervous but trying her best anyways and not crumpling like a wet cardboard sheet that was first soaked in cat urine. You were not in Tarot, but like.... I caught scum-her and we speed-limmed her in the first two hours of day one, before half the game thread even got to check in and make a single post.

Now? Now I've got that reason AND more that I don't want to get into yet.... although I believe the Kate Bishop slot will know and see what I saw WRT my softs. And how we go from here is going to be important.

I actually expect that the Kate folks will want to square reads lists somewhat soon, in some ways I'm shocked that mine wasn't demanded before theirs was freely given.

That confident?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's a lot to read into a maybe, Cabd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's a lot to read into a maybe, Cabd.

I've only had this read for five minutes.

But if anything ever happened to her, I'd kill everyone in this room, and then myself.

Hilarious.

But Marci town really pushes a specific townread on mine into Questionable, though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you like, want to talk about it? Or is this one of those twilight zone twist endings where it's me all along?

I'm not sure I want to talk about it because it's "questionable" and not "scum" and I have bigger fish, but it's not you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cool, we can apply a "bucket" tag and move on, then.

It's actually food tell time.

Potato lemon logs and burgers!

I'm having Mac and Cheese with ketchup on it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm surprised at how little discussion has been had on this, and if the role exists it seems like a role very susceptible to scum influence.

Scum influence and not actually belonging to scum?

It feels like you spent most of the post saying Manatee was scummy and then pivoted into this

Wow, your reading comprehension is garbage.

I'd like to point out that saying this, but not clarifying in what way Dunnstral has misinterpreted you, is scummy.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, Our Lady Katria's opinions on recent events would be quite welcome.

C'est quoi tu veux parler a propos?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which he was

Who just happened to be beloved princess

Then when I tried to kick and scream about killing Annie I still died

(:

Rhea also wanted to kill Annie and Pooky. It's okay. She says it's okay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like my vote still

Surprised others don't

Who are you voting, again?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Actually, Our Lady Katria's opinions on recent events would be quite welcome.

C'est quoi tu veux parler a propos?

Luke's re-entry, and thoughts of SSBM.

SSBM is town. Luke... did something notable? Lemme look.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like my vote still

Surprised others don't

Who are you voting, again?

Presently kyouko

Oh yuck dude. No. SSBM is town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Luke looks town to me but they ARE just echoing my thoughts, so possible buddying?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow we get to kill scum AND I get to be lazy and outsource the fire and brimstone to somebody channeling the pure righteous anger of a favorite character done dirty.

Niceu.

Maybe if I'm good enough at town this game scum will be forced to use my brainwashed effect to kill myself, and we can have everything fit together.

Wondering what if scum didnt know who you were and the only way to break the brainwash is if they try to target you with the brainwashed kill :/

This is not a scum post @unwnd @GIF

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd I don't think I can let you get away without a hard read on Kate today. Tracking your read on that slot and its evolution being natural will be important for reading you and for how to handle Kate.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Man, Unwnd, who is your top scumread right now? Who are your top 2 town reads rn? Whose reads do you trust the most right now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Man, Unwnd, who is your top scumread right now? Who are your top 2 town reads rn? Whose reads do you trust the most right now?

I don't want to speak on it. I am more of a willing observer this day. What would happen if I did, though? You'd vote it?

GiF/Cabd probably.

GiF probably. Cabd is being hush but whatver

Well I can tell you what I'm considering if you don't? I'd like to know your top scum read because I want to be able to track it and you and how you attempt to influence the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Man, Unwnd, who is your top scumread right now? Who are your top 2 town reads rn? Whose reads do you trust the most right now?

am i man? im answering anyways. DGB is my top scumread for aforementioned reasons.

My top two townreads lie in you and unwnd. Ive liked pretty much everything youve had to say so far, even if i disagree (see:toog) and overall youve made yourself pretty easy to hold high in my books. Unwnd I am less of a fan of content-wise, but i think their interaction w luke was very likely town, and i mirror that thought process in their attempts to engage and have me produce content, which scum totally does not need.

im agreeing with a lot of what luke is saying so id put him as the reads im most trusting of

Eh?

Eh? Eh?

What?

Okay first of all I want you to know from the bottom of my heart we are never going to abbreviate your name as "Man". That... I think we both know how problematic and painful that would be. I was voicing exasperation, as in, "Man, I'm really not sure about this". Savvy?

That said, that you answered it. How the hell are you gonna have 2 townreads and then trust someone elses' reads more? I don't really get that? Wouldn't that put them higher for you? Explain how your trust Luke's reads most but he isn't higher than Unwnd or I on the town scale.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I say this sincerely

This will not be the game I try to influence

I am in spectator mode

Kay.

Should we all just not try? Just give the fuck up and play this game on autopilot?

You have to realize as town there's nothing more demotivating than this, right? Like I just don't want to play this game anymore now.

I'm sitting here on top of a role PM that is literal misery and heartbreak, on top of not getting to do any night play, and I'm putting on a brave face and trying. When I see this, what am I meant to think? That I'm trying for nothing? That I should just quit because it'll all be the same anyway?

I'm so tired. I'm so done.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I say this sincerely

This will not be the game I try to influence

I am in spectator mode

P.S This is related to my role

As in, I have a restriction

I still champion my original idea of Lukewarm/Marci having one

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I say this sincerely

This will not be the game I try to influence

I am in spectator mode

P.S This is related to my role

As in, I have a restriction

I still champion my original idea of Lukewarm/Marci having one

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

My restriction doesn't limit me from having opinions

Yes and all I asked you for was your opinion. Who is your strongest scum read right now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And you told me "I don't have influence. I won't do this."

I don't.... huh?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Man, Unwnd, who is your top scumread right now?

Who are your top 2 town reads rn? Whose reads do you trust the most right now?

I don't want to speak on it. I am more of a willing observer this day.

What would happen if I did, though? You'd vote it?

GiF/Cabd probably.

GiF probably. Cabd is being hush but whatver

Well I can tell you what I'm considering if you don't? I'd like to know your top scum read because I want to be able to track it and you and how you attempt to influence the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you want my sword? You can have it D1

Yes? If you tell me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also feeling a small draft from LLD ghosting me after I revealed my super sekrit read...

Sorry, I stepped away.

Look, I don't wanna give up on pushing Toog rn, though.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Could Toog/DGB be a thing to you? I don't want to get into herosolve or anything crazy, but are they seperate scumreads to you?

Not split at all, no. I actually think that Toog scum increases DGB scum likelyhoods.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and ty lld and cab, "man" has a pretty common nickname for me in online spaces so i appreciate you actively avoiding it

Kay yeah hi this is Niamh stepping in for a sec.

if you point us in the direction of the spaces, we will chew people the fuck out for you, okay? you shouldn't have to fucking put up with that garbage, it's hateful and wrong.

back to your regular programming

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Unwnd, when you're around, it's time to talk Manatee lassie.

Catch me up, did Toog claim or something?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And people bought that as a town claim?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not particularly!

Kay, good. Cause that super reads like a fake claim. There's nothing confirmable about that role. Not remotely. How is that role confirmable?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

He said the first thing he unlocks is the neighborizor, and that would be confirmable.

So not confirmable now, but would be at some point in the future?

That doesn't confirm his role. It confirms his role has a neighbourizer stored somewhere within it.

Again, this is not what Confirmable means. And certainly not what he intoned when he said it was confirmable.

The claim doesn't match what he's saying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I dunno.

could be a fishing expedition?

I think this is where I'm at given the inconsistent evolution of the claim and statements about what the claim would eventually be that didn't quite line up.


Having looked into the source material the character being claimed in question is the main character of a show called the devil is a part-timer where said demon-lord/devil/whatever ends up losing the fight and him and a few of his subordinates end up on earth with no real power and so he ends up essentially being a McDonald's cashier. He is still able to draw power from negative emotions of humanity although notably I don't believe it was ever seated that he gets power from their deaths. He usually ends up using the power in ways that comically end up being not evil despite him and his crew retaining their evil alignment.

I think Dunn summarized the weirdness around it pretty well alongside Luke I believe who did the same.

One last part that is speculative on my part as to how town reacts in this situation but we were explicitly told when we got our roles that the flavor justification part can be treated as public knowledge not as mod given information and it even says that in the original rules post and yet that information is far as how the role and flavor tie together was omitted entirely. Why? My guess is because the flavor blurb explains why this roll makes so much sense as a mafia role and wasn't easily adaptable.

K. Yeah this. What this says.

So I think we're still killing toog. Now to decide what MAnatee's vote is doing.

I prefer DGB at this point?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I prefer DGB at this point?

That's the point of contention right now.

Let me know when you're caught up?

Okay. What page do I need to start on again?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Page 47ish? is where stuff started getting meaty.

Kay I'm caught up. Let's chat.

You and I need to have a talk about Spider Desu Ka. Up for that?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Page 47ish? is where stuff started getting meaty.

Kay I'm caught up. Let's chat.

You and I need to have a talk about Spider Desu Ka. Up for that?

Sure.

So you recall the concept of Taboo, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I do!

I mean, it's kind of THE major plot point of the novels.

I was dropped on my head as a child, but not THAT often to forget that in a novel series I love!

So you remember how Taboo builds when you fuck with the mechanics of the game, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh my, I think I may like where this is going.

If you build enough Taboo in the story, you can do something powerful.

Like I don't know. Kill someone.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are you following, Cabd?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I prefer DGB at this point?

Just flocking kill me already.

I want you all to see my rolecard and collect your punishment for bad reads and nonsensical cases.

You're going make zero effort trying to find the scum pushing me, too.

What a pathetic town.

So far with the claims, I am the only one with a non-negative role. I have crumbed it, and hinted at it in an exchange with Kyouko of they were paying attention. Please kill me, and earn that defeat.

And stop wasting your time pissing around, I want to watch everyone of you that dares stick the knife in and vote me.

NOTE TO META FANS: I will not claim today under any circumstance. I am angry with the heat of a supernova minus 1 minute. Do I sound angry? I am actually holding back so that I don't eat a ban for it.

I want to confirm that you are angry because I scumread you for not scumreading the slot that made not one but 2 different terrible claims, despite your stated repulsion to those kinds of bad claims, and instead find my claim to be the bad one.

I just want to confirm that you are, if town, playing actively sub-optimally by not claiming and harming your win condition because, and I quote, someone scumread you for not playing how I expect you to as town.

Yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Completely.

Although "kill" is an understatement.

Lady white does more of a "erase from existing" than a kill, heh.

Sure. Exile effects and kills are both removal, though.

I think our deck might have a little too much removal. Not enough curve.

Now I'm mixing in MTG stuff, lol

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd are you understanding me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

More than half!

At the very least, the non-MTG stuff... I uh... actually don't play MTG

We have too much DPS in the party.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ah yeah, not everyone queues up to ranked to play nami and morgana all day.

It takes a real angel at heart to do that.

I think we have a few of those running around, but it's bonkers that we could be in XYLIM on day two with claims as stated, yes.

Cabd.

I'm Pyke, not Sona.

I'm Darius, not Nami.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was talking about me, lass.

But I know. I don't need any more.

Right but then do you see the problem?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was talking about me, lass.

But I know. I don't need any more.

Right but then do you see the problem?

I do absolutely see the problem. But I think I want the dust to settle here first.

Are you caught up yet?

Yes

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Of the "DPS" who do you think might be less than legit, here?

Toog, Manatee.

But Manatee is provable. But I think with what I know Manatee is too much as claimed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry to everyone - i havent been putting my best foot forward and the game has gotten way too overwhelming for me.

It's not your fault, here. Like... you're fine.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

btw I highly doubt that manatee is groupscum because if she was she would’ve not claimed about the second vote that she didn’t have to show.

I agree with this assessment as well.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

she didn’t have to show.

? Hurt tags are fairly visible.

I agree with this, but I think Manatee group scum is... hard to believe.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd...

What if I wanted to kill Unwnd and Toog?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Remember the Marci town makes someone weird commentary I had to you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Toog needs to be ejected because his role is a bit contradictory to what mine does, so either there's crazy overlap or I'm missing something.

I don't know why you'd suggest (assuming you still believe Toog is scum), that I'd be bussing him LLD.

I don't know why you think that this is a defense of yourself, as if I need your vote to kill Toog today?

Like that's a concerning statement to me. I don't need your vote to kill Toog today, I get there without you... on several different levels. By Land or by Mana-Sea.

So. I'm not sure how you're bussing so much as you are... riding a wave to see if it succeeds or crashes. Your influence didn't push the wave either way?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Toog is giving nothing and being vague because he has associative to worry about, it's not just mech shit.

This part is trufax tho.

I concur.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(I'm here, but staying out of it as this is helpful data without me muddying. LLD, any other thoughts at this moment? Manatee, I think it's getting close to Fire Emblem Awakening Fredrick-ing time)

I don't know what to make of DGB's outburst. I'm confident in Toog scum. The rest of my reads are screaming "stay the course" and "what are you doing" at me, so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Due to harassment in a non-game thread, I have decided taking a break for an undetermined amount of time from Mafiascum might be the best for my mental health.

I have requested a replacement. Good luck to you.

I have some bad.... Damn it.

I don't know how to talk about this, and maybe I'm not meant to, but I feel like I can't not?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Due to harassment in a non-game thread, I have decided taking a break for an undetermined amount of time from Mafiascum might be the best for my mental health.

I have requested a replacement. Good luck to you.

I have some bad.... Damn it.

I don't know how to talk about this, and maybe I'm not meant to, but I feel like I can't not?

You can definitely choose not to

It's game related, though. Like... actively affects my read.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD WITHOJT GOING BACK WHATS READ ON ME?

I don't have one. You've done nothing but trust me and scumread Toog's claim. You can do that as either alignment, but as long as you assist me in my goal to kill who I want, I don't really care.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don’t think his rellaceout is game related LLD

Mmmm

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don’t think his rellaceout is game related LLD

Mmmm

Merde. Merde Merde Merde.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I highly doubt it was anything you did, lass.

Oh it's not that.

It's not that at all. I did nothing.

It's something else I noticed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Curiosity killed the Cow, as it were.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

..Ah.

Let's drop this because site rules, unless it's something in this thread.

Toogslot has done enough fuckery IN THIS GAME to make me pharoh here.

Right, it's just I don't know how to play with this in my brain?

Like if Toog hadn't made the not allowed replacing out post, I wouldn't be stuck in this position, so it IS in game info, sorta. Kinda.

But I'm... aaahhhhhh

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I guess we just kill the slot like we planned to and move on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

CRAPS TIME WISH ME LUCK

I wish... you would play a game with less lopsided odds against you!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And what if Manatee is lying, and Toog doesn't die?

I don't want to saddle Titus into more days of a dying slot.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yea i really do not want to have titus' death warrant signed and have her just wait around for the lim

... son of a bitch

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And what if Manatee is lying, and Toog doesn't die?

I don't want to saddle Titus into more days of a dying slot.

Well at least let me tell you the answer before you give up. Hot damn.

Titus.

I'm killing you today.

Toog is scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, yeah. Also. Hi.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My name is Rhiannon, I'm one of 4 people in this... body? Account? No good way to put it.

I'm playing this game. Apologies it won't be for long.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like ornn.

Look at this guy living in the lap of luxury, not just pressing B to shop (and miss a cannon wave derp) like the rest of us working class champions.

Give me Phoenix Demi Goddesses

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Niamh, you're not allowed to just answer these things because you feel like it.

I like Hathor, for the record. Oh, or Ceridwyn.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I lost 300 bucks

This is what you get playing Craps, lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you're following a Cabd or an LLD I hope it's with the intention to learn and get to a place where you're comfortable playing based on your own game thoughts.

This was actually a good take and I have never thought about it.

Now that I think about it when I originally started sheeping someone it was probably eadiantcowbels and I do think I learned some things from watching them hunt/play as I really respect their play.

Although I don’t think I can really learn from LLD as I don’t think ill ever be able to use emotion the way they do to play mafia.


P.S sorry for bribing up RC cabd and making the comparison

You can absolutely learn from watching us, because emotion is present in all players, regardless of how skilled they are at controlling or reading them.

Besides, a lot of the crux of my play is about motivation and intent as opposed to just emotional intelligence. But I won't deny that emotions are a big part of a game like this, and something I've very comfortable seeing and playing around as a result.

What you could learn from me, if you are a player who struggles with emotion as a game factor, is that if you view each player as you might a... say chess opponent. And ask, when they make this move (and requiring that you have some respect for their skill), what are they intending? What possible moves can they be setting up for the future? And why did they choose THIS particular move/opening/variant over another, and what does that mean for their motivations and goals.

If a player trends towards a great level of scum equity for future setup moves, and/or has a greater motivational likelyhood of being scum based on WHY they chose this path over another, you scum read and pressure them. If they have a clear town motivation, they may be good at hiding their scum motivations, but if you keep asking "why did they do this? what are they trying to accomplish?" you will have a sense of both their:

Motivation (why did they do this?)

and

Intent (What do they plan accomplish?/What moves are they setting up for the future?)

If you learn anything in mafia, about playing town, from me, learn that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

This hosility seems unwarranted. One innocent question and you're overreacting to get him not to look further. Only the last sentence was necessary.

No one would call this hostility. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

This hosility seems unwarranted. One innocent question and you're overreacting to get him not to look further. Only the last sentence was necessary.

No one would call this hostility. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Reading into how people phrase things is part of sorting them. You and I are both aware of this. Yet, your post to Toog was telling him to not ask you for details and here you're claiming it's an agenda to ask for more information from you.

You know what, let's fight this out. I think (so far), that there's a decent chance you're scum. Let's argue around slots in the game.

If it's T v T, we get unique insights. If you're scum, you either act as a chicken shit or give content. So I'm picking a fight with you.

I also doubt you're a gravedigger when the only tracker is ridiculously gated.

Or I can just kill you?

Like I don't get what you think I would think there is to gain from arguing with you if you think I'm scum. All it would do is shit up the thread more than you are already doing, provide you with a chance to possibly wiggle free from my clutches and we'd convince each other of nothing.

No I'm happy pointing at your bad logic as you write it and reminding people that this is the last gasp desperate struggle for survival, and that indeed, scumreading me in this position is the only move you could make as scum to try and survive.

And that Town Titus wouldn't notice or care about that, and call me town anyway.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey friends! gonna claim cos its kind of important. im a doublevoter who kills a random townie if their second vote isnt on the lim wagon. i cannot move the second vote after placing it so i will probably be the one to hammer from here on out.

im super excited to play w everyone!!!

bringing this 2 new page just in case

I abjectly refuse to allow you to hammer anything.

You can have the second to last vote and we can coordinate that. But I refuse to allow you to hammer.

do you have a specific reasoning for this? if so please outline it

I do! I think you may be scum using my role claim as cover to do this play, where your role really cares about being the hammering vote on wagons to gain power.

It's a minor thought, maybe less than 10 or even 5 percent.

But if it IS true, it's always scum, so I refuse to allow you to hammer. Once we decide who dies, you can have 2nd to last vote, with your unmovable vote. But not hammer.

Shouldn't make any difference to you, right?

yea thats fine w me!

I don't see how LLD and MG have related roles. This just reeks of bullying.

Okay Titus. I've put up with a lot of bad faith shit from you already in this thread.

But this is too far.

First of all, in what way do I suggest we have related roles and why would that matter? If I have an opinion of their claim that worries me and I want to refuse to allow them to hammer.

Second of all, once again. No one would call this bullying. Only you, and only when you have an agenda push.

But this time you've crossed a line. It's like you're reading into me expecting me to get angry, and just labelling things thing that they aren't and would clearly never be with any other player.

Is that the goal, Titus. To get me upset? Make a big loud fight to escape from under?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Titus

Pls clarify the claim, thanks.

Joat. I gain a point when a townie die. Each role has a point cost. In general, the more powerful the ability, the more the cost. I spend points to act.

A reminder that Toog took multiple posts to try and claim THIS and failed.

Also, a JOAT claim. Come on. Not only is that all kinds of levels of not confirmable, but also still doesn't match Toog's claim.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Or I can just kill you?

Like I don't get what you think I would think there is to gain from arguing with you if you think I'm scum. All it would do is shit up the thread more than you are already doing, provide you with a chance to possibly wiggle free from my clutches and we'd convince each other of nothing.

No I'm happy pointing at your bad logic as you write it and reminding people that this is the last gasp desperate struggle for survival, and that indeed, scumreading me in this position is the only move you could make as scum to try and survive.

And that Town Titus wouldn't notice or care about that, and call me town anyway.

You have no desire to discuss your reads because there is no substance to them. You just do as you almost always do,

attack those who FoS you.

Making you engage the thread, as opposed to just screaming that I am scum, shows that you aren't actually hunting at all.

Right now, I am at you and wheme being scum, subject to change.

The irony is simply delicious.

Not only are you accusing me of something impossible, since I scumread 3 players before any of them took a stance on my alignment, and infact I'm near universally townread.

But you have now scumread your two most ardent detractors, for what appears to be no other reason than that they scum read you.

Like Titus, so far, you've given 2 reads with 0 reasons besides "Wheme is scum for sheeping LLD" and "LLD is scum for her claim (no reason given, citation needed) and for pushing people the way she always pushes people"

Which is double hilarious because you claim to scum read me, then turn around and insult my play saying it's "what I always do"... which invalidates that it can be used to scumread me. It would make it null from your perspective.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Is that the goal, Titus. To get me upset?

Titus' posting is her usual frosty self, she is not trying to get you upset.

This person of LLD gets angry if not getting their ass kissed

. I don't do that. Rhi and I will have conflict. Regardless of Rhi's alignment, I am going to try and keep level headed to force Rhi's anger to help town or be really transparently scum.

...

You don't fucking know me. You don't know shit about me.

You've come into this thread and called me a bully, said I get angry if not getting my ass kissed. You know NOTHING about me, and are making these substantive claims about me as a person.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus is scum here it’s okay DGB

If Titus was scum, she'd go along with the prevailing winds and call me scum.

If LLD is saying the truth about being a

brainwashed townie performing the kills on behalf of scum

, scum would protect LLD and let her live to the bitter end. Not go after her in the game daylight hours.

Oh my god, DGB. How are you this bad at logic? Wait, you're scum. I take this back if you're scum.

If Titus went with the prevailing winds, she would DIE. This is survival based posting. All Titus is trying to do is survive, and she knows to do that means she needs to oppose me and scumread me.

If she does anything else, she has a higher likelyhood of dying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just want a Manatee full claim at this point tbh

More rolefishing.

No one would call this rolefishing. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Asking Manatee to full claim her half claimed Role that she Claimed of her OWN VOLITION because it is confusing as sin and very scummy and I want to sort her

is NOT Rolefishing, Titus.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, by definition, directly asking for a claim is not rolefishing. Rolefishing is subtly trying to draw out role info without being caught doing it so as to not implicate yourself.

But the nuances don't matter when you can just drop buzzwords, right Titus?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus is scum here it’s okay DGB

If Titus was scum, she'd go along with the prevailing winds and call me scum.

If LLD is saying the truth about being a

brainwashed townie performing the kills on behalf of scum

, scum would protect LLD and let her live to the bitter end. Not go after her in the game daylight hours.

LLD claim also is a soft contradiction of my role. It's not a lock contradiction. I get why Toog pushed on it. However, a role that fakes guilties to just trackers makes no sense when tracker is so gated.

The only way I see it making sense is that they commandeer LLD's nightaction and blocking LLD blocks the nk but that's bastard.

...

Yes, they commandeer my night action, Titus. I have no other actions at night. Period. They OWN MY NIGHT ACTION.

Thank you for spelling it out.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, what happens if you are roleblocked?

If they use me? The kill should be stopped, I assume.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I just want a Manatee full claim at this point tbh

More rolefishing.

No one would call this rolefishing. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Asking Manatee to full claim her half claimed Role that she Claimed of her OWN VOLITION because it is confusing as sin and very scummy and I want to sort her

is NOT Rolefishing, Titus.

So it's bad when Toog wants more information on a role you claimed voluntarily (you attacked him for asking if your brainwash could be cleansed) but it's ok when you do it.

LLD, you are at best a negative utility that's a hypocrite.

Again. Telling him not to read into things in the wording of my post is not attacking him. It's answering his question and cutting off further stupid ones I can't answer because of that reason.

And yes, it's okay for me to ask for a confusing role to fully re-Roleclaim, Titus.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, what happens if you are roleblocked?

If they use me? The kill should be stopped, I assume.

OK so we can roleblock you every night and there will be no NKs?

Once again, this is bad logic.

The scum are not forced to use me. They get the choice. If they choose to use me, and I'm roleblocked I assume the kill is stopped. I can ask the Mod, if you like, but this is how I interpret my role as written.

But if they don't choose to use me... then I don't see how that would stop a kill, lol.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No because they can use other people to kill

See how easy it is to apply even the most basic level of logic?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No because they can use other people to kill

How so?

???

????????????????????

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Har har har dgb town for not understanding how the role works

/runs

Absolutely not, GIF.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can ask the Mod

It's a good question to ask.

What if you're watched? Will a watcher see the scum target you as the carrier of their NK?

Genuinely no clue on that one. I'll ask, I suppose.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd, if Titus is going to use this method of things, I'm gonna need you to put your Dad Pants on and run this town to final conclusion, which I know you didn't want to do, but you don't really have a choice.

Otherwise, we're looking at an apathy game stall.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can ask the Mod

It's a good question to ask.

What if you're watched? Will a watcher see the scum target you as the carrier of their NK?

Genuinely no clue on that one. I'll ask, I suppose.

Thanks.

I was correct at my reading of the role.

Mod confirms, Yes the kill will be stopped if the mafia choose to use me and I am roleblocked.

However, no, there is no visit on me. It's not an action the Mafia take to use me, apparently, but rather just that I am part of their kill action as a result of the brainwashing. So no watching, or tracking a scum who chose to use me, will yield a result.

So please, feel free to roleblock me every night. I encourage it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd, if Titus is going to use this method of things, I'm gonna need you to put your Dad Pants on and run this town to final conclusion, which I know you didn't want to do, but you don't really have a choice.

Otherwise, we're looking at an apathy game stall.

I feel like the stall at this point is mostly Manatee, and I'm ok with giving her more time.

notsci and I have felt like we've probably squeezed as much out of the thread as we're going to this game day. That opinion could change, but I doubt it based on data hitting the thread so far.

And you're no longer of the opinion Luke should die, so what do you want today? Like, if I'm petitioning Titus+DGB die, who are you petitioning?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd, if Titus is going to use this method of things, I'm gonna need you to put your Dad Pants on and run this town to final conclusion, which I know you didn't want to do, but you don't really have a choice.

Otherwise, we're looking at an apathy game stall.

I feel like the stall at this point is mostly Manatee, and I'm ok with giving her more time.

notsci and I have felt like we've probably squeezed as much out of the thread as we're going to this game day. That opinion could change, but I doubt it based on data hitting the thread so far.

And you're no longer of the opinion Luke should die, so what do you want today? Like, if I'm petitioning Titus+DGB die, who are you petitioning?

notsci still wants luke. wheme started bugging me again, but I like some of his posts from last night. We both did.

I feel like we don't really have enough pull to prevent a DGB elim and don't feel enough conviction to push hard in a different direction. I'd really like for Cabd to talk with us about DGB's play here vs some other recent games.

pessimistically thinking the 2nd death today could be on town.

So Notsci wants Wheme. What do you want for second death?

I'm not sure I want to waver from my DGB convictions when I have them so strongly, but I've been considering it. Cabd also assigned me 2181 homework that... I'm probably not doing? It's a lot.

But if you want to change this path, you need to give an alternative.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yea i really do not want to have titus' death warrant signed and have her just wait around for the lim

Jesus Manatee....

Did you not think about the implications of this line of thought?

And like, that question holds through regardless of your alignment

I still dont get it

It suggests, unconsciously, your role claim is fake?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Cabd...

What if I wanted to kill Unwnd and Toog?

Remember the Marci town makes someone weird commentary I had to you?

A reminder that I let slip I had an Unwnd Scumread about 20 pages ago to Cabd, only for Unwnd to now come out and use all this rhetoric to "expect LLD to come back and vote me."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and I thought Unwnd had a role restriction reason preventing them from voting and pushing?
Where did that go, Unwnd?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I say this sincerely

This will not be the game I try to influence

I am in spectator mode

P.S This is related to my role

As in, I have a restriction

I say this sincerely

This will not be the game I try to influence

I am in spectator mode

P.S This is related to my role

As in, I have a restriction

I still champion my original idea of Lukewarm/Marci having one

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

My restriction doesn't limit me from having opinions

I would say the convo where you told me you couldn't do these things because of your role, then said your role doens't limit your OPINIONS...

Is about tantamount to it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's why you're saying 'haha you'll townread me soon enough' etc

No I really think I am an easy person to read compared to others in the game so seeing people scumread me is susliscois because scum will see me as a easy miselim

This quoted post from Unwnd, btw?

THAT is actual role fishing. For those who were wondering the definition?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was trolling

Uh huh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I was trolling

Regarding which?

Regarding his role claim that he made that I pointed out.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Rhiannon

I like asking open-ended questions. Sometimes I get back answers that wouldn't come out of an assumption-laden question.

You've hit on two posts of that nature this morning, so I don't think you realize that's often my approach.

Hit on?

I have no agenda this morning besides trying not to cry in despair that Unwnd has decided that he's going to push me using the narrative that people are too scared to kill me and that the game is boring simply because people decided to sheep me, despite my efforts in cultivating and asking for opinions across the board.

It's unforgivable. I'm actually really upset. More than your egotism when I pushed you as being scum. More than Titus deciding to call me a bully for no good fucking reason.

Making this statement about me, that he just made, is extremely harmful as a stereotype and I'm being serious about the unforgivable part. I've reached the "I really hope I'm right about you being scum" level of upset, because if Unwnd is town and saying this?

I don't think he understands the harm that kind of statement does.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No bullshit, unwnd, if you're gonna scum read her put up a case. NO trolling, no lazy ass navel gazing, put up the fucking case and let it get evaluated.

Because right now my hives' hives have hives from this swing.

He gave a case, Cabd. The game is boring because people sheep me, and people are too scared to vote for me, because... I don't know.

I'll note he's never said anything of that kind of effect when people sheep

you.

I wonder what the difference is.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I stake my entire life savings on LLD being scum. If I'm wrong, I'll shut up forever.

I'm pretty sure this table is too scared to eject her though, so I've been sitting here grumbling and being snarky because of it.

Like this post makes me miserable. Completely miserable.

If your goal was to make it even harder for me to play mafia, not even just in this game, but in general?

You've accomplished your goal, Unwnd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are you fucking DAFT?

Collective you here.

Confirmed openly trolling a la bloodstained-pooky scum toog gets replaced by a competent titus and we lose our collective mind and dance our way into randomly running up LLD?

I think Titus/Toog probably dies regardless

Do you not? I'm not the one with thread control

So what, this is posturing? I'm not gonna die anyway but you'll make statements like the one I quoted about me for... kicks?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean if Toog/Titus is just scum you shouldn't care about my own offensive

Again, I have zero control

...

Ignoring the fact that your logic makes actual no sense, are you still fucking trolling?

Is this fun for you? To hurt my feelings and then pretend it never mattered?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The people voting with me is Wheme is who is lol and DGB who is about to be eliminated by 2nd vote from Manatee

Why worry?

Worry?

Worry?

You think this is worrying? Do you have any fucking concept of what you've said? Of what harm you've inflicted? This is not a bit. This is not a game mechanic angleshoot.

Do you have any fucking idea what you've said?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My vote on you is not personal

It never will be

I'm sorry but you don't get to say people are too afraid of me to vote for me and tell me that I make games boring despite my best efforts to avoid that and tell me it's not personal.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My vote on you is not personal

It never will be

Nah dude, you don't get to decide this.

You can say you didn't intend it to be personal.

But what you said is heinous and harmful. You have perpetuated actual harm.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like your vote doesn't even matter in this context.

It's just that one post. That single post.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If I tell you that my vote is not personal

Are you trying to insinuate that I'm secretly lying or something

I'm telling you it doesn't matter what you meant to do, you made it personal with your comment and you don't get to decide at that point how I'm meant to feel or take it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I'd like to say that voting me because the game is boring and people are sheeping me (and insinuating this is my fault somehow)

and because people are too afraid of me to vote me

are two DEEPLY PERSONAL REASONS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Do you think I'm scum or not?

I don't give a shit right now, we're talking about something else. I'm putting the game aside right now to tell you that your behaviour in that post is not fucking okay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Friendship ended with

shitty gamestate perpetuated by Armchair LLD

Now DGB is my best friend.

I stake my entire life savings on LLD being scum. If I'm wrong, I'll shut up forever.

I'm pretty sure this table is too scared to eject her though, so I've been sitting here grumbling and being snarky because of it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Friendship ended with

shitty gamestate perpetuated by Armchair LLD

Now DGB is my best friend.

I stake my entire life savings on LLD being scum. If I'm wrong, I'll shut up forever.

I'm pretty sure this table is too scared to eject her though, so I've been sitting here grumbling and being snarky because of it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

First quote, you say the shitty game state is perpetuated by me.

Second quote, you say people are too afraid of me to eject me.

Literal quotes. From the horse's mouth.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Those are both game related

And the harm they do is not.

Like, are you this resistant to trying to be a better person that you'll sit here and argue, literal

"i didn't harm you, your feelings aren't valid. THEY'RE GAME RELATED"

?

Is that your actual position?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't think I'm a better person nor do I think this conversation is a topic of morals

Kay.

If you can't understand why telling me that I'm terrorizing a game state into refusing to vote for me,

or why suggesting that somehow the game state is bad and that it's my fault

are harmful stereotypes for someone who had to leave behind a half decade of anger and rage in games, who still struggles with rage in games, who as a system is trying to be unique to ourselves and not be boxed

and especially

for someone who as a trans woman has had to yell most of her life to be heard, only to be told these things again and again and again as ways to shut me down?

Then I don't know what to tell you.

I expect this shit from people I don't know. Or people who try to hurt me.

Not from friends.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm done talking about this, since you have no interest in talking about it.

Go ahead Cabd, sorry for derailing you with this nonsense. I'm done for... a while.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't believe you're terrorizing it, my words were directed in such a way to get attention and see the thread's response

That's part of the game isn't it? Under no circumstance will me making an assertion about someone/something in the form of Mafia be related to their actual character. If it is, then it's on me and all I can say sorry if you felt that way. That is me speaking to you as an an individual and not merely as unwnd playing a game of Mafia

But you are saying this, by saying that the gamestate is being perpetuated by me (so it's willful) and that people are afraid to vote for me (so I'm causing that fear).

That's LITERALLY what you said in 2 lines.

In 2 lines you worked on erasing years of image and improvement. In 2 lines you made it harder to play this game, period.

In 2 lines, 2 simple easy lines for you, you took something I had to use to fight out of a situation that was NEVER fair to me.

That turned from necessary weapon into toxic burdensome detriment

that I have tried SO HARD to discard from ourselves. All 4 of us.

And put it right back on our shoulders.

I'm not okay.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And you telling me "it's not personal" over and over again and not even stopping to fucking consider what you might have done wrong when I tell you directly that you hurt me.

Going so far as to accuse me of saying you're a LIAR. Instead of just stopping and going "oh shit what did I do"

It perpetuates the same shit that you're sayign. Because I have to try not to get angry. Because I need to either

get angry and prove you right and be miserable

or

shut up and try to talk through it, fail, get made fun of some more, and still have the stereotype.

You have made it lose lose for me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

* raises hand *

I uh, don't think unwnd realized what was going on there and that the wording choice was unfortunate. ~I~ don't particularly feel afraid to go against consensus on an LLD read, as exemplified that I murdered her into the ground in Yggdra.

I do think that the claim, and the way it came out, and the FEELS around it are coming from a town LLD, in a way that absent my own role PM would make her the most town person in this player list from the outside looking in, and I find the scumreads on her absolutely baffling.

Right and maybe this would have been easier to move past for me if I didn't have to spend 20 minutes trying to get Unwnd to stop and listen, since I can't get angry, so I could explain this, and if I wasn't put in the impossible position where

now even having explained this

I have to put up with about 4 more people who will come in and tell me "well I don't think Unwnd meant to do that, you're overreacting"

I cannot WAIT for the "you're overreacting, so you're scum" arguments too. I'm SUPER looking forward to people making this a GAME this as well.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm so confused how our DID makes DGB unable to play the game?

Like.... What?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hi, I don't really like the turn this game has taken.

Manatee, what

are

you planning on doing?

There's a lot that has changed. what is included in the turn you don't like?

The votes moving to lld and the 'drama' around that time.

I find it interesting that MG shoots me after the LLD trend. Normally, I would scumread the fuck out of MG and as partners with LLD for that type of move but vigs are rarely scum.

I also worry that LLD isn't scum but just vocally attacks anyone against them regardless of alignment. I still don't handle anger well. I think LLD is scum and their role wouldn't be a huge loss, but I wouldn't be surprised if wrong.

I never saw relationships form the way I needed to. Expect scum to be towards the back of my wagon, doubly so if I am wrong on LLD.

Once again:

1) I have not gotten angry this game.
2) I have scum read players, incuding your slot, before they attacked me, scum read me, or otherwise opposed me. This list includes Unwnd, Kate Bishop and DGB.

Every time you say this, I'm going to post these words again, because your claims are bold face lies at worst, and if I am trying to be charitable, unfair presumptions that you pretend to know about me, and just assume are true.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You need to admit, if town, that your FoS on Toog for FoSing you was crap.

Having a gated tracker meant he was right to be suspicious of your claim. I get why. Rather than listen, you attacked the slot into the ground before I even arrived.

Titus, if I know my role is real, why would I listen to someone who is discrediting it?

"Rather than listen to the person actively trying to discredit my claim, I accepted their critiques and agreed to die, despite my role claim being the truth"

What are you even saying?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You need to admit, if town, that your FoS on Toog for FoSing you was crap.

Having a gated tracker meant he was right to be suspicious of your claim. I get why. Rather than listen, you attacked the slot into the ground before I even arrived.

Titus, if I know my role is real, why would I listen to someone who is discrediting it?

"Rather than listen to the person actively trying to discredit my claim, I accepted their critiques and agreed to die, despite my role claim being the truth"

What are you even saying?

Oh, and bonus content: Toog never mentioned anything about a tracker, about a counter claim, about any reason why he would have to doubt the claim besides, and I quote

"It's a bad idea to town bin LLD so easily, because she can gambit".

No claim at all that the reason for believing this was tied to his own role. Despite his bad half claim. So no, Titus, I don't feel particularly like I was meant to try and understand why he was so skeptical because he didn't provide a reason for being skeptical. All he did was use my history, which doesn't even apply to me, given the circumstances, and say "we shouldn't trust it!"

It's paranoia aspersions designed to prevent townies from finding each other. That's a scum move. Toog didn't even FoS me. He literally just said "we shouldn't be so quick to call her lock town."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, I'm pretty well convinced you're flipping red here Titus, and these words are being written in the last ditch hope that Manatee's role won't kill you, so

I'm treating you as if you're going to live and not flip, despite how you are writing as if you are a townie who has died (which is what you would do as either alignment, and has no bearing on your alignment for me.)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like "what benefit does lying have for me here?" is very simple if you're scum. You're hoping Mantee's role will not kill you, or something will change or Manatee lied. If you're scum, you're playing to your last outs, and by constantly swinging at me, you're not creating any other associatives.

That's a great point, btw. Titus, what are your OTHER reads. Who is town? Who is scum, besides me? Give me some nice juicy reads for when you flip.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD, You can listen to someone without accepting their premise as true. You can acknowledge that a FoS of you isn't automatically scum, which is what I've tried to do here.

I don't think all of the people who voted me were scum, and the only way I sort that is to remain calm and listen. I don't see you doing that. You never gave me a chance because Toog and I FoSed you and we were right to do so mechanically. Now it will lead to a town loss.

"The only way I sort that"

Yes, Titus. That is the way you sort it. So stop putting your methods onto me, stop insulting my methods, and stop tone policing me.

I am calm. I did listen. I didn't agree with you. I still don't.

But these passive aggressive insults are starting to tire me. As an example of what it might feel like to you, to hear these things Titus, it would be like if I said that you have now died day 1 twice in a row in two consecutive games because two totally different subsets of players found you altogether too scummy to live. A reminder that Rhea thought you were town in Bloodstained, and was actively pushing against your death the first Day.

So perhaps that says more about the way in which you play than it does about those who are scumreading you?

See, that would be a really mean thing to say. Almost as mean as constantly making the assertion that I didn't even bother trying to look for actual scum reads, that somehow all FOUR of us never consider anyone scum but people who scumread us (untrue) and that somehow despite my continued lack of anger in this game, you get to make free potshots about how angry or uncalm I am.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and finally Titus?

If killing you does lead to a town loss, so be it. I think you're scum, but it's a game. I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again in the future. I don't believe I'm wrong here, but why would I believe I'm wrong and keep pushing something?

So these constant restatements that now town will lose the game are, firstly, untrue. Many towns have won from a bad day 1. Secondly, who cares? if Scum outplayed me, they outplayed me. I'll live.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm taking a break here, not from the site but from this game a bit. It's clear we're having a failure to communicate.

You hoodwinked MG into shooting me based solely on Toog. I was never given a shot by you. This was not a collective decision. The other game went as I called. Neither were my fault, as you try to claim. You're seeking a justification for this, which I don't think you do as scum. For that reason, it's good for me to take a step back and not get emotional here.

I know Bloodstained wasn't your fault. Neither is this game, if you're town. You replaced in to an already dead slot.

That was the point of the statement, Titus. That it is equivalently mean and untrue to what you are saying, and on a similar scope.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I don't understand this expectation that I was supposed to, once you replaced in, call off the horses and ignore how Toog played and just give you a chance.

Why am I supposed to do that, Titus?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

glhf with school starting, manatee!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh and stay safe and shit too