Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Titus]

In to sub

[Titus]

Whoops

[Titus]

And what if Manatee is lying, and Toog doesn't die?

I don't want to saddle Titus into more days of a dying slot.

Well at least let me tell you the answer before you give up. Hot damn.

[Titus]

No it’s not I feel so bad

Why do you feel bad here? The last game you should have felt bad. I told you exactly what I was doing, exactly what scum would do, highlighted one of the scum and you still failed. Here, from what I have gleamed. My slot dove straight into a salt mine.

[Titus]

@Titus

Pls clarify the claim, thanks.

Joat. I gain a point when a townie die. Each role has a point cost. In general, the more powerful the ability, the more the cost. I spend points to act.

[Titus]

hello Titus. You're here for real this time?

On Saturday, I am rarely present in real time. I'm spending an hour or two cleaning/reading this game. I hope to have you a decent answer RE: gamestate by this afternoon. I just saw the playerlist and thought this may be fun.

[Titus]

I already have a scumread but it's not a strong one and it's totally divorced from context, so I will sit on it.

[Titus]

Say it!

No. I get one shot to put together a compelling case. My reads either need to be something I am willing to die for, or the closest I can get. To that end, catchup morning.

What should I focus on?

[Titus]

Ugh... the VCs do zero. I'm going to have to claw reads through by hand. I have been hot but still I am not relishing fighting this scumteam (if I am right) without hard data. At least it's a failsafe.

[Titus]

(its because of crimes I committed in past games)

*notes for later*

[Titus]

VOTE: Toogeloo

Their openers as town are usually more distinct, from experience, and tend to relate to their own role or the actual game. Here they talk about the delay but that is it.

While I hate meta and RVS usually, that's a decent starting off point to get the game going.

[Titus]

Out of 21 posts I made grand total of 2 game-relevant posts.
That's about 9% so I'm actually playing more serious than usual.

My god, my eyes are bleeding. At least this read through is fast bc spam.

[Titus]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

I struggle to buy this unless we're all mostly negative utility in some way.

[Titus]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

This is a full claim besides my character name which I will happily provide if asked.

Depending on my read of you at the end, I may just ask.

[Titus]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

This hosility seems unwarranted. One innocent question and you're overreacting to get him not to look further. Only the last sentence was necessary.

[Titus]

Likelihood of Rhia lying about role is zero

JJH adding negative utility to town to fux with them also decently high

Binned

With

them?

[Titus]

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

And what about my other question. As far as you know, you aren't Miller-esque towards scans, correct?

As far as I know, I scan town on cop-like effects but may scan scum to motion based effects (motion detector, watcher, tracker).

Know that I have no night actions I can take myself, so if I ever go anywhere, if anyone sees me do anything, it's scum using me for NK.

It's not impossible, but I struggle to buy this based on my own PM.

[Titus]

Likelihood of Rhia lying about role is zero

JJH adding negative utility to town to fux with them also decently high

Binned

A little early for this assumption given the slot. It's also a type of claim that could easily draw these types of conclusions, and Mafia could bank on that.

Base a scum/town alignment on other actions not easily fakeabke.

For what reason would scum fakeclaim that role?
And no "WIFOM" is not a correct answer because there would've been simpler and easier ways to get that goal achieved.

LLD, regardless of which person is playing, can easily be townread and such a role gives an excuse as to why they're always at the scene of the crime.

I struggle with the automatic lock from unwnd though. It also refers to town in the third person.

[Titus]

You may have my sword. Although I don't want the line of questioning between unwnd and the lukeistar duo go undanced.

I'll take cabd as town.

[Titus]

I actually have a very small scope of reads this phase, because there is a lot I disagree with

I stay out of it though

No way. I want you in it.

The biggest problem is not you townbinning LLD. I disagree with that. My biggest problem is your word choice.

[Titus]

hey friends! gonna claim cos its kind of important. im a doublevoter who kills a random townie if their second vote isnt on the lim wagon. i cannot move the second vote after placing it so i will probably be the one to hammer from here on out.

im super excited to play w everyone!!!

Not sure I understand this...

[Titus]

Marci if you have a pulse please gesture at your earliest convenience.

yes sir..?

What has you so holed up

Give me a rundown of thoughts, they don't have to be orderly or even coherent

im a bit worried about my role tbh
i think it could possibly be used as a disadvantage if we dont end up planning things right, and im so so worried about that.
i was just gonna claim it but i was kinda waiting until everyone could get into thread first. so i was mulling over it.

im having a bit of trouble reading everything as well tbh, since i dont really understand alot of the jokes.. yall boomers

i was a bit concerned about 16, since im not sure if i like how luke reached out to me specifically.
i think lady lambdadeltas claim is more likely to come from a townie than from scum.
221 makes me think u were trying to stop cabd from sorting.
i dont really have thoughts on much else yet tbh, nothing really stands out to me yet.

This is how town apporaches an LLD claim they feel is town.

[Titus]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

This hosility seems unwarranted. One innocent question and you're overreacting to get him not to look further. Only the last sentence was necessary.

No one would call this hostility. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Reading into how people phrase things is part of sorting them. You and I are both aware of this. Yet, your post to Toog was telling him to not ask you for details and here you're claiming it's an agenda to ask for more information from you.

You know what, let's fight this out. I think (so far), that there's a decent chance you're scum. Let's argue around slots in the game.

If it's T v T, we get unique insights. If you're scum, you either act as a chicken shit or give content. So I'm picking a fight with you.

I also doubt you're a gravedigger when the only tracker is ridiculously gated.

[Titus]

Crumb was an epic fail

You might as well talk about it now because if you're not scum they've already either

1) Decided to kill you
2) Fuck with your role in some sort of fashion

I crumbed very openly and scum were legit confused by the crumbs so they let me live. You never know.

[Titus]

hey friends! gonna claim cos its kind of important. im a doublevoter who kills a random townie if their second vote isnt on the lim wagon. i cannot move the second vote after placing it so i will probably be the one to hammer from here on out.

im super excited to play w everyone!!!

bringing this 2 new page just in case

I abjectly refuse to allow you to hammer anything.

You can have the second to last vote and we can coordinate that. But I refuse to allow you to hammer.

do you have a specific reasoning for this? if so please outline it

I do! I think you may be scum using my role claim as cover to do this play, where your role really cares about being the hammering vote on wagons to gain power.

It's a minor thought, maybe less than 10 or even 5 percent.

But if it IS true, it's always scum, so I refuse to allow you to hammer. Once we decide who dies, you can have 2nd to last vote, with your unmovable vote. But not hammer.

Shouldn't make any difference to you, right?

yea thats fine w me!

I don't see how LLD and MG have related roles. This just reeks of bullying.

[Titus]

Okay LLD you have my vote

This is likely scum

[Titus]

(also we test Manatee's claim by having her vote early then vote somewhere else to show that voting elsewhere does NOT move the second vote as claimed, aye?)

I still don't 100 percent get MG's claim. It's not a problem if I don't live, but I still would like to know.

[Titus]

Or I can just kill you?

Like I don't get what you think I would think there is to gain from arguing with you if you think I'm scum. All it would do is shit up the thread more than you are already doing, provide you with a chance to possibly wiggle free from my clutches and we'd convince each other of nothing.

No I'm happy pointing at your bad logic as you write it and reminding people that this is the last gasp desperate struggle for survival, and that indeed, scumreading me in this position is the only move you could make as scum to try and survive.

And that Town Titus wouldn't notice or care about that, and call me town anyway.

You have no desire to discuss your reads because there is no substance to them. You just do as you almost always do, attack those who FoS you.

Making you engage the thread, as opposed to just screaming that I am scum, shows that you aren't actually hunting at all.

Right now, I am at you and wheme being scum, subject to change.

[Titus]

Okay LLD you have my vote

This is likely scum

Many years ago I used to believe that players that tag their votes to another player's were scum trying to escape responsibility for their votes. Every single one flipped town. I gave up on this as a scumtell.

That's not why I'm tagging that vote from Wheme as scum. Cabd also gave his sword.

It's wheme popping in and doing nothing else. Wheme during the few posts I did catch, is joking and doing nothing. He's hiding behind LLD.

[Titus]

Is that the goal, Titus. To get me upset?

Titus' posting is her usual frosty self, she is not trying to get you upset.

This person of LLD gets angry if not getting their ass kissed. I don't do that. Rhi and I will have conflict. Regardless of Rhi's alignment, I am going to try and keep level headed to force Rhi's anger to help town or be really transparently scum.

[Titus]

How am I hiding behind LLD

Literally just said.

[Titus]

I just want a Manatee full claim at this point tbh

More rolefishing.

[Titus]

i'd be ok w fullclaiming tbh im not sure i have a role i feel comfortable managing on my own

I'm locking ManateeGal as town. Scum don't do this usually unless they have a way to plan around such a leash. I don't fully get MG's role but I highly doubt they are scum.

[Titus]

Titus is scum here it’s okay DGB

If Titus was scum, she'd go along with the prevailing winds and call me scum.

If LLD is saying the truth about being a

brainwashed townie performing the kills on behalf of scum

, scum would protect LLD and let her live to the bitter end. Not go after her in the game daylight hours.

LLD claim also is a soft contradiction of my role. It's not a lock contradiction. I get why Toog pushed on it. However, a role that fakes guilties to just trackers makes no sense when tracker is so gated.

The only way I see it making sense is that they commandeer LLD's nightaction and blocking LLD blocks the nk but that's bastard.

[Titus]

I just want a Manatee full claim at this point tbh

More rolefishing.

No one would call this rolefishing. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Asking Manatee to full claim her half claimed Role that she Claimed of her OWN VOLITION because it is confusing as sin and very scummy and I want to sort her

is NOT Rolefishing, Titus.

So it's bad when Toog wants more information on a role you claimed voluntarily (you attacked him for asking if your brainwash could be cleansed) but it's ok when you do it.

LLD, you are at best a negative utility that's a hypocrite.

[Titus]

i have a second vote. placing it on a player that doesnt get elimed kills them.
placing it on a player that does get elim gives me a vig shot.
not placing it kills a random townie at night.

i knew i didnt want to not place it and i knew i wanted 2 keep the rest under wraps hence my original claim

So this is essentially a compulsive day vig that resolves at EoD.

The proper way to play this is to have MG bold their second vote at E minus 1 with intent.

[Titus]

I just played the worst game of league!

The Ryze only ulted back a duo of useless ragers.

He kept getting sent back to the beginning. Why, and how should be evident. Fucking soloqueue lmao

My hands are too old to play League anymore. They took out all the thought and made it button mash.

[Titus]

deja vu.

Also, notsci is townreading wheme. Nothing else particularly grates about your reads list aside from the obvious.

Unless you're a secret T3 alt, I struggle with a WhemeStar TR

[Titus]

At page 20 end.

Toog is particularly breaking down here. I feel sorry.

Random OOG note: LLD has great taste in board games. Argent is really fun.

[Titus]

I think long time ago I went “If Titus is crazy Titus is town, if Titus is normal Titus is scum.”
I wonder if this is still true.

YEES TITUS IS SCUM

Funny, GiF didn't say if he felt I was crazy or not.

Yet it's pretty clear you don't care about that answer. You don't want me seen as correct town.

[Titus]

I haven't caught up completely with all that's happened since my last post.

However, a pattern I have realized is that each claim comes with a positive for town except for LLD. LLD claims this brainwash is a full claim. That means, as a role, LLD stands out and provides no utility.

LLD is a very emotionally manipulative player in most of the games I have played with them. They have no qualms about that as either alignment which makes them harder to sort. I feel like they've grown and made me grow as a person. That doesn't change my expectations of them though.

LLD should see my emotional state is the exact same as Bloodstained, yet they don't. The only anomaly is that I don't have a plan to verify my reads. I expect LLD to read my emotional consistency even if they disagree with my read on them.

LLD's goal has been to get ManateeGal to shoot threats to her, rather than to shoot scum. However, I'm not going to lie in that I have minor paranoia of DGB.

I'll be looking at this more tomorrow. I'm just wanting to lay out where I am at and ask for help here. I respect LLD as a person and I listen to them, but that doesn't change my view of them.

[Titus]

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role

. I begin the game brainwashed.

At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

Is there any indication on how to remove the brainwashing? If you

begin the game

brainwashed, there is a chance you can break the brainwashing, no?

You should really not read into how I phrase these things. I'm purposefully trying to dodge directly quoting the role PM by accident. As far as I'm aware, I have no method of breaking the brainwashing.

This hosility seems unwarranted. One innocent question and you're overreacting to get him not to look further. Only the last sentence was necessary.

No one would call this hostility. Only you, and only when you have an agenda to push.

Reading into how people phrase things is part of sorting them. You and I are both aware of this. Yet, your post to Toog was telling him to not ask you for details and here you're claiming it's an agenda to ask for more information from you.

You know what, let's fight this out. I think (so far), that there's a decent chance you're scum. Let's argue around slots in the game.

If it's T v T, we get unique insights. If you're scum, you either act as a chicken shit or give content. So I'm picking a fight with you.

I also doubt you're a gravedigger when the only tracker is ridiculously gated.

LLD hasn't claimed Gravedigger and nobody has claimed Tracker so...?
I'd vote here now if I was caught up but I'm like 10 pages behind

LLD claimed being taken over by the kill which is a temporary gravedigger.

[Titus]

Welp, I'm dead. GG another town loss.

[Titus]

Welp, I'm dead. GG another town loss.

I will wait for the flip. Final thoughts for tomorrow if you are town?

I gave them for now but will keep trying.

[Titus]

Hi, I don't really like the turn this game has taken.

Manatee, what

are

you planning on doing?

There's a lot that has changed. what is included in the turn you don't like?

The votes moving to lld and the 'drama' around that time.

I find it interesting that MG shoots me after the LLD trend. Normally, I would scumread the fuck out of MG and as partners with LLD for that type of move but vigs are rarely scum.

I also worry that LLD isn't scum but just vocally attacks anyone against them regardless of alignment. I still don't handle anger well. I think LLD is scum and their role wouldn't be a huge loss, but I wouldn't be surprised if wrong.

I never saw relationships form the way I needed to. Expect scum to be towards the back of my wagon, doubly so if I am wrong on LLD.

[Titus]

@LLD, What motivation would I have to lie here? I'm dead. Lying here doesn't further anything for me in this game or in my mafia career as a whole.

I am attempting to sort you and calling it as I see it. To pretend that I am acting as if I have you solved is crap. I don't but I will continue to call it out.

[Titus]

You need to admit, if town, that your FoS on Toog for FoSing you was crap.

Having a gated tracker meant he was right to be suspicious of your claim. I get why. Rather than listen, you attacked the slot into the ground before I even arrived.

[Titus]

@LLD, You can listen to someone without accepting their premise as true. You can acknowledge that a FoS of you isn't automatically scum, which is what I've tried to do here.

I don't think all of the people who voted me were scum, and the only way I sort that is to remain calm and listen. I don't see you doing that. You never gave me a chance because Toog and I FoSed you and we were right to do so mechanically. Now it will lead to a town loss.

[Titus]

I'm taking a break here, not from the site but from this game a bit. It's clear we're having a failure to communicate.

You hoodwinked MG into shooting me based solely on Toog. I was never given a shot by you. This was not a collective decision. The other game went as I called. Neither were my fault, as you try to claim. You're seeking a justification for this, which I don't think you do as scum. For that reason, it's good for me to take a step back and not get emotional here.

[Titus]

I hate a "dying slot" narrative. It shows that the thread was closed off before I got here.

I need a VC.

[Titus]

Gun to my head reads to get going

Dunnstral - Weak town
Titus Toogeloo - Dead town
ssbm_Kyouko - null scum
DrippingGoofball - town with reservations
WhemeStar - lean scum
ManateeGal - very prob town
Something_Smart unwnd - lean town
Cabd - weak town
Lady Lambdadelta - weak town possibly null
Kate Bishop (hydra of notscience and fferyllt) - gut scum, thinking null
Lukewarm - lean town, with reservations
GuyInFreezer - null
marcistar - lean town

[Titus]

Gun to my head reads to get going

Dunnstral - Weak town
Titus Toogeloo - Dead town
ssbm_Kyouko - null scum
DrippingGoofball - town with reservations
WhemeStar - lean scum
ManateeGal - very prob town
Something_Smart unwnd - lean town
Cabd - weak town
Lady Lambdadelta - weak town possibly null
Kate Bishop (hydra of notscience and fferyllt) - gut scum, thinking null
Lukewarm - lean town, with reservations
GuyInFreezer - null
marcistar - lean town

Please comment someone...

[Titus]

Titus how are we supposed to comment on a reasonless readslist? Even if it defies the norm there’s nothing backing up either stance.

Titus, pretend I quoted the Kate read and said "spicy, but why gut" or soemthing.

@Kate, You can comment on how accurate/incorrect my reads are generally or do what Cabd did.

@Cabd, I feel like they're detached from the game.

[Titus]

Gun to my head reads to get going

Dunnstral - Weak town
Titus Toogeloo - Dead town
ssbm_Kyouko - null scum
DrippingGoofball - town with reservations
WhemeStar - lean scum
ManateeGal - very prob town
Something_Smart unwnd - lean town
Cabd - weak town
Lady Lambdadelta - weak town possibly null
Kate Bishop (hydra of notscience and fferyllt) - gut scum, thinking null
Lukewarm - lean town, with reservations
GuyInFreezer - null
marcistar - lean town

Please comment someone...

It's lacking in scum reads.

There are three but to be fair they aren't confident. Any of my reads you think are wrong/need to be checked in more detail?

[Titus]

@Titus

-Kyouko
-Cabd
-S_s
-LLD
-marci

Pls

I think I've gone into detail about LLD to explain my conflict there and I don't think continuing is good for thread health or my relationship with LLD.

I'll tackle the others in order with time.

[Titus]

If that's not what you mean by "detached", then I don't know what could give you this impression.

I didn't see your announcement about retreating and it had no impact. It's more of a tonal thing. You feel cold and distant. That's the best way I know to explain it and it might not be 100% right.

[Titus]

You have me and dgb as "with reservations" what makes that different then "weak"? Like, do you have specific reservations in mind for the two of us?

Also, you have every loud member of the "lets kill Toog/Titus" crowd down as some version of town: LLD, me, dunn, cabd, manatee all town. Do you think that the big push on you was all town motivated?

Why are you leaning town on Marci?

1) Yes, you both could be whiteknighting me.

2) No. My reads list is individual but I feel collectively I should be wrong somewhere. My first bet is Dunn if I had to pick.

3) Honestly, it's a tone thing.

[Titus]

3) Honestly, it's a tone thing.

You’re going to have to show me this, my dude

Due to being an Aspie, tonal reads are hard to explain for me. I value them less myself and understand if others do too.

[Titus]

1) Yes, you both could be whiteknighting me.

i
This is an interesting take. What would make you think I was whiteknighting you, when I feel like I possibly the most vocal about killing your slot outside of LLD?

Unless you mean this reach out now that you are essentially dead?

This is because, if you are town, having your thoughts would be good. But if you are scum, still having you put your thoughts out would be good

I felt like you labeled my slot a goner and felt bad about it but never pushed me. Maybe I was blinded by LLD though.

[Titus]

@Titus

-Kyouko

I feel Kyouko has a certain lack of oopmh as scum, which I see here.

[Titus]

I would like the record to reflect (at least for me) it’s a matter of everyone else being a stronger townread, DGB. But I’m still reevaluating and not writing you off.

How is everyone else a stronger townread than DGB when there are likely three scum?

[Titus]

I mean.

Too many cooks. Kitchens. Day stagnant.

Do you think we shouldn't?

Odd. I feel there are zero cooks in the kitchen and no one eating either. That's why the day is stagnant.

[Titus]

I'd like to think that there are so many potential deaths/yeets because death is really not final.
But I may be putting too much hope.

How many becomes too many, though?

I think this is a double edged sword. Scum would be afraid to play aggressively because they don't know how the mechanic works and cannot shoot to silence someone.

[Titus]

I'd like to think that there are so many potential deaths/yeets because death is really not final.
But I may be putting too much hope.

How many becomes too many, though?

I think this is a double edged sword. Scum would be afraid to play aggressively because they don't know how the mechanic works and cannot shoot to silence someone.

This post was thinking as if I was in another game. My bad.

[Titus]

Titus - I actually scumread Titus precisely because I thought her play wasn't too crazy enough for me.

This is just insulting.

[Titus]

Titus - I actually scumread Titus precisely because I thought her play wasn't too crazy enough for me.

This is just insulting.

What did you mean here?

[Titus]

Kate Dunn Marci
Lld Cabd
SS, SSBM, DGB, Gif, Lukewarm
Titus

I have too many null reads

Someone Rule of 3 this after I die.

There's no way someone legit townreads Marci and doesn't TR me.

[Titus]

VOTE: Wheme

[Titus]

Yeah, Kate Bishop is scum.

[Titus]

Kate Dunn Marci
Lld Cabd
SS, SSBM, DGB, Gif, Lukewarm
Titus

I have too many null reads

Someone Rule of 3 this after I die.

There's no way someone legit townreads Marci and doesn't TR me.

Marci obv town mate

Sorry got Marci confused with Manatee.

Someone should still Rule of 3 that post

[Titus]

LLD was also scum in that game and a huge factor in the win. I think this hydra and those two (and now Gamma) are the Tenet alumni playing this game.

Bloodstained and Tenet I predicted the strategy scum used. I bet scum, at least one, is in the hyperposters. This is impossible to keep up with.

[Titus]

Gamma, I'm town.

You need to do a better job sticking to your values, then.

How is DGB not sticking to values?

[Titus]

VLA Sept 17th through the 20th

I'll likely be dead by then but I should xpost.

[Titus]

Well this is the first time in ages that town won after miseliminating me.

Good job guys.