Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Something_Smart]

This playerlist is dope and I am glad to have rolled town in it.

[Something_Smart]

I might be able to read everything, but I'm not really sure it would be worth my time. As always I am open to (and encourage) recommendations about particular sections to look at.

[Something_Smart]

I've played with her a few times but never as scum, so I'm not sure how valuable my experience will be, but I can take a look.

[Something_Smart]

Ssbm feels maybe a little different from past games? Certainly not anything significant though.

[Something_Smart]

I replaced unwnd.

[Something_Smart]

How's your grok of the gamestate coming along?

Rereading the past few pages before my arrival was... a lot more illuminating than I was expecting, actually.

[Something_Smart]

Well, Titus is flipping town, I don't know the circumstances leading up to that but I can probably guess. LLD seems to be thinking she might not, which I don't really like, but it is LLD so it's not out of the question for her to feel that way. There's also some... concerning speculation about what I thought was a fairly clear rule ("death is final?" meaning that death is final but dead players may continue to interact with the game).

[Something_Smart]

Hey S_S I wanna test something.
Can you try voting Wheme real quick?

...why?

[Something_Smart]

SS, how is your catch up going?

Depends on what you mean by that. If you mean reading past posts, I'm not doing much of that and don't plan to unless recommended specific sections. If you mean getting a feel for what the gamestate is like, pretty well.

[Something_Smart]

Who do you want us to kill atm?

Hell if I know, but that's normal.

I believe your vote is still on LLD from when Unwnd was running your slot. Do you also think she is scum? If yes, why? If no, why are you still voting there?

I'm fine with carrying the vote over for the time being, especially since I thought LLD's reaction to Titus getting shot was pretty poor.

[Something_Smart]

A gravedigger is a little-known role that passively visits whoever dies at night.

[Something_Smart]

The term doesn't seem to be in use anymore, but I remember it pretty clearly. Then again, it's not like the role was ever popular. (Though I like this version of it.)

[Something_Smart]

Tell me more.

It's entirely unproductive to continue to suspect Titus when she's going to be dying anyway; and on top of that, I think Titus's reaction was pretty damn towny. I'm sure that LLD might play this way as either alignment, but there's a non-negligible chance that she's pushing it with more confidence than she knows she'd have as town and/or trying to interfere with people who actually want to have productive discussions with Titus before she dies.

[Something_Smart]

I don't get this part.

She might be playing up her confidence in Titus being scum.

She might also be deliberately trying to prevent people from having productive conversations with town-Titus before she dies.

[Something_Smart]

As town/scum?

As scum, specifically.

[Something_Smart]

SS im not sure yet, are you fine if i meta dive him and then report back to you?

Uh, good frickin luck? Especially with how few posts I have so far...

[Something_Smart]

I don't know if I've ever seen someone not named Cabd or ffery do a non-firsthand meta dive and actually come away with useful info.

[Something_Smart]

So going through SS's recent games I have found a new hard town read!

Excuse me?

[Something_Smart]

Oh fair. Were you looking at the tarot game?

[Something_Smart]

What am I being asked to confirm? Whether or not I am a dayvig that can shoot today?

[Something_Smart]

That’s not a great post my dude

What's wrong with it?

[Something_Smart]

Who's Katniss? I thought that nickname was for Firebringer.

[Something_Smart]

Are you the same head who wrote 2728 and if so can you answer my question

[Something_Smart]

Why's it weird? I put a pretty high value on townies not giving away any more information than they absolutely have to.

[Something_Smart]

I think what they wanted you to confirm is whether you have an ability similar to a vig, regardless of the details.

I'm aware that this is what they wanted, but I don't see why.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, it's a little strange, but this setup surely has some strange things in it. Besides, vig claims tend not to be fake...

[Something_Smart]

GIF's thing isn't permanent, right?

Yeah it's a lot. But I mean, we can marvel at how cool/weird the setup is after the game. Is there a particular reason we need to know that now?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah because I post my actual beliefs as scum lol

[Something_Smart]

I'm absolutely being dodgy, by the way. I'm trying to dodge revealing something that I don't think it benefits town to reveal.

But it's not a hill I will literally die on, so if people insist, I won't continue to hold up the game arguing. (And that, ssbm, is in stark contrast with what I just did as scum.)

[Something_Smart]

This game is living up to its flavor; I really do feel like I've been transported to another dimension!

[Something_Smart]

Also haha all this killing power pls no shoot me let me live pls ty

Tough sell given the line immediately above this.

[Something_Smart]

For what it's worth, I'm doing this on principle, and I was aware that people might not like it. But it actually may be the case that I wouldn't do this as scum-- it would depend on a lot of things, but my scum philosophy is to say as much as I need to get people off my back while keeping my options open, so I probably would have immediately claimed no killing power. (Unless unwnd had noted in the scum PT that he was clearly softing a killing role in which case I would have tried to make that work.)

All you metaheads, this may be something you can actually verify. Not entirely sure if you can or not.

[Something_Smart]

I can go as far as to say the same thing as wheme - my role indirectly supports the theory that there is a second world after death

What exactly do you mean by "second world"?

[Something_Smart]

Well yeah I get the flavor, I meant mechanically.

[Something_Smart]

So that would require this one to be entirely flipless?

And it would always have like 3 people in it, and sometimes scum majority, and sometimes no scum at all?

That's an interestingly specific theory.

[Something_Smart]

A gravedigger is a little-known role that passively visits whoever dies at night.

[Something_Smart]

The term doesn't seem to be in use anymore, but I remember it pretty clearly. Then again, it's not like the role was ever popular. (Though I like this version of it.)

[Something_Smart]

The role I'm describing can be found here (line 57).

[Something_Smart]

Because this was a confusion that I'm pretty confident I know the truth about and I can help to explain.

[Something_Smart]

And how are you "pretty confident" that you know her intent? Did you see my quote?. Do you know of a game where Titus has encountered the type of gravedigger that you are talking about?

I think it's, uh, very obvious from context? If the word can mean two things, one of which has nothing to do with what's been claimed and the other of which is the exact role claimed by a player, and Titus is directly responding to that player's claim and saying she doesn't believe it, then I don't think there's much ambiguity in "I doubt you're a gravedigger."

Yes, I was aware that the term has multiple meanings. Many words have multiple meanings in English.

[Something_Smart]

I wasn't aware of any specific game she'd played in with it, but I knew what it was despite never playing with it, and she's been around a lot longer than me.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, someone brought up a stupid theory, I explained why it was stupid. You brought up the stupid theory again, and I don't have anything better to do, so I might as well explain why it's stupid again.

Besides, it will stay relevant if Titus flips scum or doesn't flip, because even if she is scum I'm confident that wasn't a slip.

[Something_Smart]

I guess we can cross that bridge if we come to it. But I think even if that coincidence happens to occur, it was still crystal clear what she meant.

[Something_Smart]

are you going to claim a binary yes/no based on our feedback?

Uh, maybe? Can you remind me how that will help town?

[Something_Smart]

It might help us figure your slot out without running you up.

Do you intend to run me up if I don't comply?

[Something_Smart]

he could habe easily just stalled and waited to see what his teammates said to do in the situation.

If I were to do that I would have just lurked or diverted the conversation, not openly argued against claiming.

[Something_Smart]

Adding Contradictory to the adjective collection.

Where's the contradiction?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah okay? In general, when I'm scum, I tend to not back down from an argument when I know I'm right, and when I'm scum stalling, I do it quietly, not loudly.

No contradiction.

[Something_Smart]

I don't generally stall unless I'm about to do something major that I need partner approval for. Saying I can't kill is not that.

[Something_Smart]

Wheme you are the competing wagon please vote SS.

Also do not bully him, he's his own man.

[Something_Smart]

Can you actually state your thesis and evidence instead of expecting people to figure it out?

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, that’s not what that is, and we’re nipping that in the bud now.

Whether or not you intended it as bullying, it comes across that way.

[Something_Smart]

Are you asking me for a...case?

No? I'm asking you to not implicitly threaten Wheme.

[Something_Smart]

I grabbed the wrong quote.

I was replying to this one.

Oh. I mean, I would love it if people kept cases as short as I was asking for (~2 sentences), but I think by your definition of a case, probably not.

[Something_Smart]

And I will repeat notsci's comment. There was no overt or implied threat in that post.

Intended, maybe not. But it definitely reads like one. ("Vote S_S, because if he doesn't get executed, you might.")

[Something_Smart]

And it’s that instead of good practice for literally anyone at E-1? Survivalism is NAI in the first place, but in theory the only person you know to be town is yourself. So naturally, ANY elim is preferable to your own.

Sure but it's not like the deadline is upon us... he still has time to push a different target if he wants.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, what's your usual approach to replacing into a 100+ page game? How are you approaching this game?

Uh, hope that something interesting happens that I can get involved with?

Which has definitely happened here.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, what is your read on Wheme?

Uh, null, but not for lack of trying. I didn't like his whole "it's not hard to say whether you can kill or not" and I also didn't love his baby sheep vote on me after I just pointed out that he totally doesn't have to. But, if he's been setting up to scumread me, then I don't see why he forays into calling me town for like two seconds only to immediately change his mind. So I'm not sure that it necessarily makes a lot of sense as an agenda.

[Something_Smart]

How do you form reads?

Uh, by reading posts and comparing them to my experience and logic to decide how much sense they make as town/scum?

Though if I'm being honest it's mostly logic. Experience tends to lead me wrong more than it leads me right.

[Something_Smart]

S_S, can you do the binary kill/no kill thing

I can't kill.

[Something_Smart]

I have come to the unsatisfying conclusion that S_S is not a player for which statistical analysis is very valid.

Yup, sorry. My town and scum games are very similar.

Neat tool though!

[Something_Smart]

I generally will only read back when I'm looking to refresh myself on how something went down.

[Something_Smart]

Oh, did you mean in a replacement game specifically?

Kinda the same, except instead of refreshing it's just familiarizing myself with something that people are talking about.

[Something_Smart]

This pisses me off.

I mean, I'm not thrilled about it either, but a wagon's a wagon.

[Something_Smart]

So I think 3004 is at odds with all of that

We can be confused about it together, I guess.

[Something_Smart]

The reason we outed our vig shot was because it looked like there were too many different non-elim kills in the game to make sense.

I'm sorry. You could have just said it was for a role-related reason and I probably would have done it.

You didn't really give me any reason at all...

[Something_Smart]

Just multiple people quoting unwnd and asking you to clear it up.

That's not a reason, though.

The only reason given was that it would help sort me, but it didn't seem like that was worth revealing info if I didn't have a wagon. But now I do. Hence the timing.

[Something_Smart]

Well, at least I can be comforted in knowing that I'm not getting killed for any fault of my own.

Though I feel like you must have a pretty low opinion of my mechanical skills to think I would stall that long and then not claim a gun as scum?

[Something_Smart]

This is untrue and I won't be able to tell if it was a good/bad move without seeing the full picture of scum roles (which have the potential to be quite complicated in this game)

I mean, given the amount of confidence I have in my scumgame, and given the amount of heat I already received and how clear-cut those crumbs seemed to be, I would basically expect to be dying if I didn't claim a gun.

So I mean. If the scum roles are laid out so that it's beneficial/barely harmful for me to die, then maybe, but even then, why wouldn't I at least try?

Especially since I just came from a game, with several of the same players, where I wiggled out of several executions by pretending that I didn't care that much if I got killed. There's no way I would expect that to work twice.

[Something_Smart]

Imagine your predecessor saying something weird that you wish you could ask them to explain. That'd be wacky.

[Something_Smart]

We have 6 days, we could swing the vote to anyone.

[Something_Smart]

You’d better not be implying that to be the case
I made that post as an emotional outreach and to paint it as anything else is to mess with a half-asleep dragon.

Uh, I'm talking about my own predecessor, who softed vig like 5 times despite not being a vig.

[Something_Smart]

Did the Wise Man’s Snare catch yet another scum?

What is wise man's snare and why am I skeptical of it

[Something_Smart]

I feel like I'm self-aware enough to not get caught on the word level.

I used to have a problem with emphasis words like "definitely", but I think I've filtered that out.

[Something_Smart]

Nice one!

[Something_Smart]

Well the good news is, the dead certainly have some way to interact with the game. Personally I'm hoping it's a vig.

[Something_Smart]

I would've preferred Wheme over S_S, but hey he should've complied quickly when he had a chance earlier.

This is you literally admitting you scumread me for an NAI thing? Or what?

[Something_Smart]

Have fun without a doctor, I guess?

[Something_Smart]

Just sheep Cabd and ffery and if either one is scum then town loses.

I'm only saying this because I know it will happen anyway.

[Something_Smart]

I'm just saying that it didn't had to end this way for you.

Ah yes, you're trying to blame me for you mishammering me.

Take note of this, people.

[Something_Smart]

That was abrupt. :/

If only there had been a way to avoid it!

[Something_Smart]

I agree with that one.

[Something_Smart]

Still, too many quickhammers lately for my nerves.

You ever wonder why I never vote?

This is one reason why.

[Something_Smart]

It's not really quickhammer when Day 1 should've ended 70 pages ago.

It's a quickhammer if you didn't wait for a claim

[Something_Smart]

Upicks don't make role completely independent of alignment. It's not like my slot would have been a doctor if I'd rolled scum, probably.

[Something_Smart]

At most one red.

Didn't somebody have a theory of me being scum with Titus?