mini theme 2229: MBOS 13 schweppes' pulpy potions daya 5

[RCEnigma]

RCEnigma replaces ta vera

Wow, it’s been hella fortnights. Welcome to the game.

Thanks!

It's been awhile so I might be slow getting back into the swing of things. Also just waking up so I have other priorities but reading up will happen tonight/tomorrow, I'm like halfway through.

[RCEnigma]

Change of plans since I now have a 4 mile walk to work. I'll get a little further during break. So far I've read up to datisi/norwee duking it out, I have opinions there that aren't super important.

But SS pinged me hard by appearing to bring an end to the head to head without coming to any real conclusion as a result where others did (I can only think of emporer off the top of my head). Even though I disagree with where he landed, norwee does come out of it looking better than datisi hydra but I don't think datisi was scummy for the angle.

Anyway I'll be around after my journey maybe.

[RCEnigma]

Also, not to enforce that Titus needs to live through every d1 always for eternity but, Titus being flippant D1 and using it as a free day is on brand and a bad basis for a Titus wagon. If that's not the bolt holding her wagon together feel free to let me know.

[RCEnigma]

The wagon on Titus is because her hero solve was bad.

Bad in what way?

[RCEnigma]

RCEnigma replaces ta vera

Wow, it’s been hella fortnights. Welcome to the game.

Thanks!

It's been awhile so I might be slow getting back into the swing of things. Also just waking up so I have other priorities but reading up will happen tonight/tomorrow, I'm like halfway through.

Wooo RCE it’s been forevahh

I joined with the sole goal of pocketing you, don't let me down.

[RCEnigma]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're in too deep Titus.

[RCEnigma]

The wagon on Titus is because her hero solve was bad.

Bad in what way?

Wrong and forced

Do those both equal scum?

[RCEnigma]

Is she wrong on all three? Just you? Why can't she have a baseline and evaluate from there?

[RCEnigma]

What's the point of ingredients? Am I missing something?

just to induce maximum confusion?

Is this a lillith post or an SS post?

[RCEnigma]

I was on the fence about committing to defending Titus tbh but after jumping around a bit I'm on board with town in Titus, norwee.

Maybe gcb and maybe emperor.

Bingle is in a weird place I can't visit.

SS is my best fos and Mastina doesn't FEEL town halfway through the day but that's vague and floaty.

Also by virtue of weak engagement from dwlee on their wagon stance AND my opinion that the Titus wagon is built on quicksand dwlee can be on the bottom pile with SS for now.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Titus
I townread your entire hero solve and the third one is me. Picking three names and none of them being scum is what I think happened here, and I think that is scum!indicative for Titus.

This answers one of my questions so fair enough. What makes the other two wrong in Titus' solve?

[RCEnigma]

Is this a lillith post or an SS post?

Lilith. I rarely forget to sign (and I believe I almost always notice it when I do).

Also hi!

-S

Yeah I checked the timestamp with lilliths signed post. It would be a townie post for you to make but it's nai for lillith.

[RCEnigma]

But SS pinged me hard by appearing to bring an end to the head to head without coming to any real conclusion as a result where others did

As someone who has gotten into many heated back-and-forths and has trouble knowing when to quit, being able to end an argument without reaching a conclusion is very valuable.

It's a little different because I wasn't involved in the argument, but the spirit is very much the same. That conversation wasn't helping anyone read anyone, it was just shitting up the thread.

-S

It was the first content worthy exchange (norwee fos -> ss <- Datisi pushes norwee) to draw perforated lines from but the way you tried to end it made me think you had formed some kind of read, the way you framed it. But you never really came back to it so it read more self serving.

I wasn't around so I don't know if it was tense or not but didn't seem heated from the outside looking in.

[RCEnigma]

I also feel T3's attempt to fuck up the VCs was scummy as hell.

You're in too deep Titus.

sRCE is townish for this.

???

Okay, maybe the bad takes here are enough to mean they're scum ones

VOTE: T3

I know I'm bombarding you here, but I'd also like elaboration on this

Perhaps I worded that badly. He jumped to defend me from a bad push. That doesn't make him town but it's a reason that contributes to him being towny.

Err kind of. More like Titus was misrepping the action. I didn't think you were actively messing with the VCs just pointing out that the VC was incorrect.

Titus would be sensitive to that kind of play so it's not an inherently scummy misrep but it's not something to push as scummy onto your slot.

I'm more interested in why emperor thought that sequence was scummy on both ends.

[RCEnigma]

Mastina excluding the depth what do you think about bingles read consistency?

I'm kind of already biased on rep in since his most effort push was on my slot as far as I've read but it's more like a set of parameters for scum from his pov that fit my predecessor and dwlee (I agree on the latter). But I don't know if it's out of his scumrange since I don't have much experience with scum!bingle outside of bastard games.

[RCEnigma]

I do not think this exchange needs to go on any longer.

-S

SS I think I read this as more nuanced than it really was at the time and then later realizing it wasn't nuanced gave me bad vibes for (??) When maybe it just is what it is.

[RCEnigma]

My eyes glazed over, is the tldr:

Hold pain, throw harmography/jk?

[RCEnigma]

I don't have much experience with scum!bingle outside of bastard games.

Eh. The type of scumgame mastina is comparing this to is one that I think you might be the only other person itt who has seen from me. Mastina is arguing that this is Fogport Bingle.

Seems I blocked that game from my memory. I skipped your self meta post but I would never compare games revolving around neighborhoods to one that doesnt, it's just a massive skew regardless of alignment.

[RCEnigma]

I feel like Limit could be town and i’m sussing RCE so ny guess if i were forced to make one, would be Bingle, Fairy Circle and RCE.

The betrayal.

I'd swap myself with dwlee. What pushed you over the edge with Mastina?

[RCEnigma]

Have you played with Titus before now? This is literally screaming townTitus

how is this game *screaming* town!titus? i can see a townlean because she does vaguely remind me of some towngames, but i feel like "titus is doing something" isn't a good basis to read her on, so i'd like to hear why you think she's obvtown here (also for my own and everyone else's sanity, i am ignoring the second part of this post)

for the record i really disliked the "t3 is scum because trying to fuck with vca" but i can kinda see it coming from town!titus so whatever.

I was on the fence about committing to defending Titus tbh but after jumping around a bit I'm on board with town in Titus, norwee.

Maybe gcb and maybe emperor.

similar q, why is titus town? and why are these two maybes?

i think i'm thinking t3 is town? maybe it's the fact that i can actually follow his thought process now and it makes at least a little bit of sense, maybe it's the fact that i finally have my "automatically scumreading people with no avatar" bias removed. who knows.

i should at some point go back to my last game with scum!norwee for a sanity-check, but he's not getting yeeted today anyway so i have an excuse to procrastinate on that, yay

bottom of page 32, i need to go do something else for a bit because my brain is refusing to focus on this game further, will return Soon(tm).

-D

I'm too lazy to cut the quote down.

Initially I was looking at Titus' activity and engagement as town indicative. Also Scum!Titus that I remember is way more reactive than proactive which is how I feel Titus is playing here.

For example the hero solve whether you agree or not. Also I noticed before getting into any wagon analysis in 600 I thought they were throwing early wagons out to see what sticks and who bites on what which is less of a scum inclination and not a line I expect scum!Titus to take.

The caveat is like, if Bingle!scum then Titus!scum becomes a real possibility but I don't want to die a slow mechanics death so I won't think about it rn.

Gcb was mostly from the norwee engagements and emperor I had some (not mind meld) like.... We were going in the same direction so the processes were there if that makes sense. Also afaik you're both consensus townread and not high priority to sort today so I'm good just....not doing that too much.

[RCEnigma]

i havent voted and deadline is 2 days and some change. in spirit it was on tldne.

[RCEnigma]

it isnt doing much where its at VOTE: tldne

whats your read on fairy since they're in your poe too, I dont have a read there and i dont have any confidence in reading flea anyway.

[RCEnigma]

lillith can you talk to me about bingle, ive seen you swatting at Mastina's tunnel but it doesnt tell me where you stand on his slot at all. I can make assumptions but eh.

[RCEnigma]

This is sort of reminding me of LN235 but Fairy is saying this is town Titus?

oh? i thought you were disagreeing with fairy here on titus being town.

[RCEnigma]

a 2 for 1 hydra special oh my god.

the initial bingle posting his ingredient or the realization bit about ingredients not being consistent?

[RCEnigma]

Oh you have ingredients in your role PM?

Just poison. I was implying I might have more than one in case Schadd told me this setup had closed elements to obscure information, but it turns out the ingredients are publicly a red herring.

implies that bingle has a potion....with an ingredient. did he claim to be potionless and i missed it?

[RCEnigma]

t3 im pulling out UNVOTE:

VOTE: dwlee

[RCEnigma]

the initial bingle posting his ingredient or the realization bit about ingredients not being consistent?

I think all of it points pretty strongly toward him actually having no potions. When I say townslip I was assuming that scum got a factional stock of potions like the last game; I will have to double-check that, because I realize that I might be wrong about it.

-S

idk anything about the potion distribution, someone did back bingle up with the logic that he would have just checked the ingredients against partners ingredients in scum pt and i dont think its possible scum only ends up with 1 potion though. so i think that defense holds some weight, more than him being town for claiming to be potionless.

[RCEnigma]

oh the bits i skipped over, ty lillith.

[RCEnigma]

was that not me who said that?

- lilith

maybe lol, i already had my change of heart I dont want to murder your slot.

[RCEnigma]

well yeah i know its there but its many numbers and i didnt join this game of mafia for math.

[RCEnigma]

was that not me who said that?

- lilith

maybe lol, i already had my change of heart I dont want to murder your slot.

What made you change your mind?

- lilith

It's a dumb reason that shouldn't make me townread you but it does.

[RCEnigma]

I think bingle and mastina are both north of null. like SS said, I actually think bingle townslipped, not scumslipped, if I had to choose between the two. And while I absolutely hate mastina’s reasoning, I think it’s probably too angleshooty to be scum because scum!mastina would know that it’s not a scumslip and she would probably realize people would realize it’s not a scumslip.

my vote would go somewhere in {fairy circle, t3, titus} I think.

- lilith

Like doubling down with your hydra head that you believe Bingle townslipped and then in the same breath making them essentially a bull read is so outside of a scum agenda that I just....kinda blinked for awhile reading this.

I came to the same conclusion about Mastina though and I guess that's a better ish reason.

[RCEnigma]

null, i spell not good.

[RCEnigma]

Does she usually do VCA on D1?

-S

no.

[RCEnigma]

@Mod

most recent VC is broken, tldne shows two 1 vote wagons.

VOTE: Fairy Circle

[RCEnigma]

why care about what dwlee is doing with a pain potion if you think he's scum? either way i think its a minor problem to begin with.

[RCEnigma]

a potion that could take care of that would be awfully convenient.

[RCEnigma]

I may be a simple man but lim all scum win game. Not that im a mechanical player in the first place but percentages and probabilities dont make an elim optimal or suboptimal in my eyes.

[RCEnigma]

yeeting by math is a horrible idea. fairy might be scum anyway but "they're 2.54% more likely to have that potion distribution as scum" is a bad

rce, why are you voting fairy again? nobody has provided me a tldr yet

-D

no one but titus and I want a dwlee lim despite almost everyone else calling them scummy or having them in the bottom of their pool and tldne had some good posting via lillith + ss slip probably comes from town over scum, could it be fake yeah i guess but I'm not keen on their elim anymore.

fairy dumbtelling rubbed me wrong and pushed me to throw a vote down and see where it goes. spending more time explaining why they arent posting instead of posting doesnt sway me away from the wagon.

[RCEnigma]

RC what did you think of my reads?

i'm in the bottom of the poe with mastina so i dont think they're spot on and are mostly consensus. i super dislike the bingle read since the angle is that hes town because hes potionless which assumes:

A.) There exists 1 potionless player
and
2.) potionless can only be distributed to town

I doubt the setup allows for confirmed town from the onset of the game or there would have just been an IC at daystart. If your read is deeper than that I missed it. Also not a fan that a titus!town flip doesnt change how you see the game at all, but thats minor since its diving into hypotheticals anyway.

we agree on gcb and norwee though so thats something.

[RCEnigma]

RCE:

"Yeah thats a fake slip. Votes fairies"

Me: oh I think I'm hammered. Glhv, this is where we should focus on

Rce: ??? You disappeared yo so...

Me: yeah I said i was busy, still am

RCE: them saying why they arent here and not saying anything makes them scum

I told datisi you're scumread for the lack of involvement and the slip being garbage and leaving the thread in limbo doesn't change that. Not the other way around.

[RCEnigma]

fairy dumbtelling rubbed me wrong and pushed me to throw a vote down and see where it goes. spending more time explaining why they arent posting instead of posting doesnt sway me away from the wagon.

That's not what this implies.

What of my catch up posts are "sittingback"

Unless your talking about the week where it was explained I was having phone issues (and have not posted in my other existing game at the time)

I wasn't even in the game then, and also skipped a bunch of pages (I assume where most of your content is). I only saw the spat with norwee over whether you were a hydra or he was a hydra....or something.

Your cat h up is after datisi asked my vote reasoning so I don't see what you're getting at.

[RCEnigma]

@FC

Then your line of questions that you still haven't cared to follow up on didn't leave any impression on me.

Nor is it the reason I scumread your slot but it's the only part that you can refute so there's that I guess.

As a general observation Titus wagon picking up steam and FC's fizzling out at E-1 makes me feel 76.89% more sure Titus is town and Titus flipping town should put FC in a 1 person pain potion pool n1.

[RCEnigma]

I would really like to not be flashwagoned tho

I won't let them be mean to you.....today.

[RCEnigma]

do i think we ran 3 consecutive scum up to e-1 and let all of them go? not really.

Also Titus!scum only makes sense to me here if they've set up a deepwolf already (that makes gcb, norwee, or emperor) OR they're playing a distancing buss (norwee, i guess dwlee but i dont buy either at this point). so i guess the long and short is that Scum!Titus doesnt take this line with Scum!FC as their partner.

im not really considering the norwee/Titus distancing UNLESS titus flips scum.

[RCEnigma]

i guess there is a third line where Scum!Titus goes this hard on town as an anti associative link for the wifom but that feels super low yield and it has already stretched far too long to make it like a fallback fingers crossed option.

[RCEnigma]

only time ive ever been scum with Titus was Boon Wars I think. Well I was informed traitor and Titus shot me n1...which is as good a buss as you can get I think.

[RCEnigma]

if i hear meta again im gonna scream.

[RCEnigma]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[RCEnigma]

are you arguing for FC town here?

[RCEnigma]

Schadd is the inventor.

[RCEnigma]

I thought we had 24 hours and now I see I was reading day 1 ends in... As 1 day until deadline.

The pool should literally just be FC and I'm assuming three shots are needed to make that happen.

[RCEnigma]

I don't remember norwee being toxic before I left Ms. This must be the darkest timeline.

[RCEnigma]

I've got some time for personal reasons and that may make it's way into the thread but I'm on one so bear with me.

I'll read up the other pages in a bit.

Running me up next would be a compound dumb move considering the dumb elim on Titus yesterday. Norwee/dwlee/ T3 can argue till you're blue in the face but the push on Titus was ONLY based on OMGUS. Not a single one of the three pushed suspicion on Titus until the 3 were brought up in Titus' solve. On top of that the 4th vote to secure the elim on Titus was FC who was townreading Titus.... All the way to an elim. Who needs enemies right?

The backwards casing on Titus being confrontational or in the case of T3 ( That Titus case on them was unbelievable and not based on logic but they were scum because they weren't using "moonlogic") is bullshit and to push me for not buying into it yesterday, also bullshit.

I'm no mechanical player or master manipulator or anything but I understand people (mostly).FL can attest to this when it took me all of like 2 games to nail his meta and force him to switch his entire style. I think my first game with Titus was Magical girl upick (norwee might have been there idk) but my first interaction with Titus was confrontational and it took me a bit of prodding to understand that Titus as a PERSON is very steadfast in their beliefs (whether the logic holds up or not and it's probably why she gets tagged with the moonlogic label all the time). So she's vocal about it and you have to PROVE her wrong not just tell her and figure it goes away.

This line from Titus was completely town, in like the first 2-300 posts she threw down like 4 votes (not piling on wagons) to see who jumped on what and where. Titus was fishing for information to draw some conclusions from and I didn't see it until diving into her iso (which is where I committed to Town!Titus which strongly resembled Titus from magical girl upick).

That was a lot to explain that I can identify a town Titus when I see it but whatever. Why didn't I try to stop Titus elim? The most likely scum in the pool of Titus opposers is dwlee and the resistance was strong enough that Titus and I couldn't get an elim there. T3 and Norwee both plugged their ears so there isn't much to sway the scale there and I realized that when you norwee were purposely antagonizing Titus instead of engaging with her in good faith. You thought she was scum so why interact in good faith, sure whatever. I don't remember you ever playing like that though so my toxic comment stands as is.

[RCEnigma]

I took a shot at FC last night hoping that at least two others saw the major swing away from FCs elim yesterday. I was 100% when I said that a town!Titus flip would earn FC a bullet.

Mastina you are going to have to hardsell bingle as scum imo, if he is he'd have to be a far removed third from FC and whichever of Norwee/T3/dwlee is just scum and not derptowning this game.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, you mean Bingle was right and pain potions are negative utility that should not have been used N1? Cool.

I mean just because I think you're scum doesn't mean I think your mechanical advice was wrong--quite the opposite, you'd never lie about the mechanical advice. As scum you'd develop counterplay to your mechanical play (and I think the night actions last night suggest that this is in fact what happened), but you'd still suggest the play you genuinely believed to be the optimal play.

843 is your genuine thoughts on the optimal strategy to use in the game. While I'm not 100% sure it's necessarily the actual optimal strategy, I am still,
1: 90+% sure it's the optimal strategy, and
2: Even in the 10% chance it isn't the optimal strategy, I 100% believe you

think

it is the optimal strategy.

So you were right, or even if you weren't right, you

believed

you were right.

I just think that you happen to be scum that was ignored by town who used their pain potions, and who developed a scum counterplay to your own strategy you proposed.

This reminds me I wanted to ask you yesterday independent of already scumreading bingle. Do you think Scum!Bingle makes his mechanical wall and intentionally has scum!Dwlee jump in to obfuscate his town plan proposal?

I guess more directly asking would be do you think the interactions between bingle and dwlee are genuine or fabricated?

[RCEnigma]

Well....at least you took something from that wall post.

[RCEnigma]

Anyway your case for me is flawed in that I was very adamant in pushing FC near deadline. So to frame it as allowing momentum to keep flowing into Titus is disingenuous at best.

I can't be an obstacle and not an obstacle at the same time.

[RCEnigma]

Your avatar is like, 8, what do you know?

[RCEnigma]

Which scumteam do you think has the most reason to have holstered on pain potions and/or targeted players that aren't nightkill-baity?

The one led by Bingle, or the one without Bingle

The only hole I can poke in that argument is that the chance of a highly townread slot actually being scum is nonzero and by virtue wouldn't be scum targeted. Which doesn't condemn or exonerate bingle but can't be used as a gotchya for scum!bingle when the explanation could just as easily be "maybe town just has really shit reads"

[RCEnigma]

Yeah but it's a picture of me.

[RCEnigma]

I thought you said yesterday that Titus was likely scum with the slots defending her since it would contradict your argument but I can't find it so maybe it was someone else.

You did claim it was one of the slots WK'ing Titus so you have consistency I guess. It doesn't make the case good though.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Fairy circle

When I wake up I'll think about my own hero solve.

[RCEnigma]

You didn't but I remember it being said.

[RCEnigma]

Spoiler:

votey 1.30.990.01.0 !

Titus (4):

Green Cap Boys, T3, Dwlee99, Fairy Circle

Fairy Circle (3):

NorwegianboyEE, RCEnigma, mastina

T3 (2):

The Emperor, Titus

RCEnigma (1):

Bingle

not voting (1):

The Limit Does Not Exist

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to cause someone to Wet. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-08-17 12:30:00)

modorator notes

• drink potions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
• reminder that this game will be using
  plurality executions
  if no majority occurs before deadline

I still don't know where I stand on bingle. Aorn I don't want to elim there but townreading all of the FC wagon end of day, Titus conf town, emperor town , gcb town leaves bingle and tldne as sore thumbs.

If I go under the assumption FC is town : T3/dwlee/tldne or bingle/tldne + 1 of T3/dwlee

FC as scum makes the scum team composition harder to nail but tldne still makes sense as an FC partner in enough worlds that they are a way better elim than Bingle even if the chance of Bingle+tldne exists.

[RCEnigma]

That wasn't the final VC for day 1.

Anyway bingle and tldne only really interact on mech topics. The strongest opinion bingle has even given on the tldne was after prodding from norwee but there hasn't been any progression there. So there is partner equity with tldne remaining a stagnant null read.

Rereading bingle in iso I doubt a bingle + FC exists. They interact the same way that bingle and tldne do but learning that elims were plurality Bingle throws a vote down on FC to bring the wagons even a day off the deadline and then doesn't show back up for eod. Even if Titus is the elim with tied wagons it's too risky to make that play on a partner.

[RCEnigma]

Town RCE jokes around a lot and his posts have less content overall than his scumgame. Town him also engages with the discussion mkore than scum him. That was all I got, he has too few recent games.

I've just come back from hiatus.

Also rep in rce and full game rce are different entities.

Meta is bleh.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think anything after TM2021 reflects my playstyle since I was already in a burnout spiral mafiawise.

If I go down today it's off the back of pissing off the wrong group and going against the grain in thinking Titus wasn't scummy...correctly thinking btw. And not a product of scumhunting

The block voting of Norwee/FC/dwlee with no wagon to rival suggests I'm town. It's a literal repeat of yesterday so either town is on the way to dumpstering itself or there is scum within the block.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah maybe.

[RCEnigma]

If there's scum in the block it's probably Emperor?

Idk if this was responding to my post but when I say block I mean voting block (slots voting together) and not townblock.

[RCEnigma]

And i mean, yes Rce is probablty town but what town needs is cohesion and I don't think we have that.

Also

Having been lilith scum partner once, i know shes capable of.performimg much better than she is as scum
This is highly lilely a.bad game.for her and her "lack of obv towning" and her "lack of presence" in this game is incredibly NAI.

sure she and SS could deep scumb but I would much rather elimimate one who is showing AI behavior vs NAI behavior

What is the ai behavior pointing to bingle scum?

[RCEnigma]

Kewl, our action got conf'd.
TLNDE, does not exist on a scumteam with Bingle.

Can you expand on this? What eliminates this possibility and how does either flip affect that?

Just from game flow I can make the assumption your thinking is S/T with tldne as the latter but what is your assessment on a bingle!town flip?

I think it's easier to eliminate a pairing like bingle/FC than Bingle/tldne. Actually didn't realize FC pained bingle when I was going through interactions D1.

Why were you(FC) more eager to jump on my wagon at day start than Bingle whom you felt strongly enough to pain n1?

[RCEnigma]

ANYWAYS
RCE, at least on a surface level sounds towny. Limit does not, and lillith's reaction to the tunnel felt forced and overblown.

Why just on the surface?

Not that I want to be cased as scum but like, what am I doing if in scum under the surface?

I already don't think norwees reason for pushing me is very good and mostly just hangs on me defending a slot they thought was surefire scum. But I think the real reason it bugs me is that the impression is my scumplay would be to softball a fake read on Titus to tie me there when she was an easily pushable slot and then to death tunnel for two days straight.

In other news I don't know if the game just feels like walking through mud because it's slow or because I can only get certain slots to even entertain interacting with me.

[RCEnigma]

Mastina is different because they acted genuinely mad that we flipped town!Titus. Which feels a lot more genuine than your lame reaction.

I wasn't here for deadline, what reaction?

[RCEnigma]

Citations:
Me in Calculasia
Me in ODM
Mena in another game

I don't know any of these games but tunneling menalque sounds familiar.

[RCEnigma]

Bingle almost went through on mastina just saying "scum claim" lol

I'm gonna venture a guess that that was not the main reason.

-S

It really was. There were a bunch of town reads on me, mastina said the ingredient thing was a scum claim without any context, my elim almost went through based on sheeping, she explained the scum claim claim, people realized it was dumb, the wagon dissolved, she reached with meta and there wasn’t support.

Since then, support has grown again.

I still don’t think mastina is scum. The overlap of the scum claim thing and the meta case that I think she believes on specifically me doesn’t strike me as her style.

If scum has a deepwolf it's likely Mastina. You or Mastina in this playerlist would be the choice to make it happen.

The only thing that really sketched me out was the emphasis on d3 which got me thinking if Mastina is scum here then they have the most utility in their configuration. Like multiple pain potions or the majority of their teams pain potions. Or maybe multiple docs? I don't know the math or if that's a thing.

[RCEnigma]

SS are you arguing that scum is just widely town or that scum is controlling the game state? Gcb only really fits into the former.

[RCEnigma]

If scum has a deepwolf it's likely Mastina.

If mastina is scum she picked the exact combination of push with shit reasoning and push with legitimate reasoning on me to pocket me and did so while it was becoming apparent that I would lose WIM and thus not be around for the long game. She went about it in a way that would give her very little control over eliminations that weren't specifically on me and which would discredit her reads immediately after I flipped, meaning she couldn't throw her weight around to help her partners as easily. I don't think that's likely at all.

I'd have to look at the context. Some of that sounds like projection if that makes sense. That may not be the right word. Like you're perceiving the result as a manipulation of the action and not considering them as a consequence instead. Dunno what I'd call that.

I'd trust your ability to recognize scum Mastina over mine fwiw.

[RCEnigma]

If you hit town at any point it kinda does. Getting the clean sweep though I see.

My wagon yesterday didn't hit resistance. I had 3-4 votes the whole day and it didn't switch until Mastina campaigned for tldne based on bingle not picking up steam. Bingle refused to go on me even as our wagons competed and I read that as highly town indicative. That might be hindsight making it stronger now cuz, well FC was town too but at the time I wasn't convinced with Mastinas case and me voting bingle would have to be something pretty damning.

I threw the possibility of Mastina!scum at bingle yesterday and he remained adamant this was their towngame and I'm inclined to believe it.

So with that said my wagon lost steam with tldne's picking up off the back of Mastinas vote. With the way bingle/FC played out yesterday AND knowing both had a shot n1 (my bad, I know) I figure scum saw the support to elim I had but backed Mastinas push to preserve a miselim today with the idea that BOTH bingle and FC would be night kills.

Unless the team is me+Mastina+whoever, then you could argue scum actively moved against my elim for preservation instead of changing gears for the win.

[RCEnigma]

Unless the team is me+Mastina+whoever, then you could argue scum actively moved against my elim for preservation instead of changing gears for the win.

Okay so riddle me this why does any scumteam choose to preserve you in this game when TLDNE is publicly said to have been pained and that could easily have opened the door for a scum win on night 2 (one I would absolutely be pursuing)

-R

who pained tldne? i thought FC and I were the only claimed shots n1.

[RCEnigma]

All I had was my pain potion.

[RCEnigma]

I'll say I have 0 interest spending another game defending a case against the player I replaced.

[RCEnigma]

Scum team is probably either Norwee/Mastina/T3 or Ari/RCE/(GCB/T3)

Does anyone other than t3 disagree with this?

Here's where I stand on this.

I still don't think Mastina is sitting on a scum role and if they are then in any order it's the last slot I'd touch of the three.

So if I'm sitting on two votes and not elimmed yet the team is norwee/t3/+1 the easy answer is dwlee is the third with the voting pattern of dwlee/norwee lining up all game but a pain on me makes this slightly less likely. I don't see the motivation in claiming it and no one else is claiming any pains where there had to be 1 on bingle and 2 on FC knowing they had a doc potion in the pocket. I've also been stuck on the thought that the elims have been town refusing to reevaluate reads but still moving cohesively, but it's a lot more likely town has just been getting led by the nose and it's been dwlee being propped up as scums shield. Or norwees specifically.

So am I being honeypotted? Gcb trajectory on norwee isn't just a today issue and follows through from yesterday somewhat, aristeia doesn't have much reason to back me up as scum but I have like the nagging thought in the back of my mind that the team could be norwee/t3/aristeia and the defense of my slot is just holding out for a townie to feel confident enough to throw a vote down on a slot they can blitz.

[RCEnigma]

i am not sold on you being town but i currently have nothing concrete to actually point in scum!you's direction

this is subject to change once we actually get a list of claims and i try to figure out what vote is what yesterday

Associatives based argument is this: RCE isn't hammered right now and I didn't vote him when I thought he was E-1. Now that could be a bluff or I could be lying about thinking he was E-1, sure, but in general I think an RCE/me team doesn't make sense. So it can't be S/S, so it is either S/T or T/T. If I was the scum here with RCE town then I would have thought to hammer him here. Okay let's say you want to ignore that cause I could be a trickster here. Then we still have that an RCE/Me team doesn't make sense, so the only way I can be scum is again still RCE town. But if RCE is town, then the team is me/norwee/t3 cause RCE isn't hammered and I think everyone has showed up. Now if Titus was still here she would be very upset but I also think this team does not make sense given my interactions with Norwee/T3 throughout the game. I mean right now t3 is trying to turn us into a 1v1 duel, which doesn't make sense if t3 is scum with me. So again, I don't make sense as scum here.

I hadn't really considered you + t3 interactions but I don't think grouping you with norwee is bizarre.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Norwee

Titus went down with a mostly correct solve and if she was spot on and dwlee is pulling the wool over our eyes then Titus has permission to swirlie me. But 1 red flip at a time.

[RCEnigma]

The game makes a lot more sense in that light. It explains why the reaction to Titus hero solve was that explosive. It also explains norwee pushing me day 2 to further discredit Titus day 1 reads as one of the few defenders by trying to push the narrative my defense wasn't genuine.

[RCEnigma]

Norwee and aristeia making it look like they are 1v1 over my slot without hard committing to a world makes it a real possibility yeah.

[RCEnigma]

Wait does that make sense even?

[RCEnigma]

Aristeia defending my slot only came after Mastina soft declared a vote on me

[RCEnigma]

I was working through it don't be mad at me q.q

[RCEnigma]

So going through the game I'm really the only slot norwee has attempted to case and I'll get to why it doesn't work in any situation but even that only comes after dwlee pushes the idea forward. Norwee has stood behind someone else for every wagon he's jumped on.

Dwlee for Titus
Mastina/FC for bingle
Gcb for tldne

Anyway even when bringing up examples I SHOULD be scumread for (like expressing there existed a world Titus!scum exists) I'm explicitly shutting that implication down. But norwee refuses to acknowledge that I haven't done a single thing he's accused me of. Even now I can't be scum pushing Mastina as scum while simultaneously townreading her.

But if that's what you believe scum is doing why would I be your first choice and not the slots you believe were ACTIVELY doing this?

Because the slot voted doesn't really matter if he can get 1 townie to fold.

[RCEnigma]

This is the most asinine and ridiculous thing I've ever read on this website.

what is wrong with you?

I don't think we've ever played together but I have to get things out into posts as I'm thinking them or I lose the train of thought.

So it doesn't always make sense but once it's tangible I can pull it all together.

[RCEnigma]

Call my soul pretty and I won't blame you for rolling red on me.

[RCEnigma]

I don't think I've ever scumread actual scum!norwee? I just wanna be your friend always. Then I feel bad when you end up a baddie.

[RCEnigma]

I’m over with this whining, i’m just so over it.
Pulling the plug on RCE is so fricking hard because he is scum here, anyone should be able ro see it.

People said this yesterday and I was the LEADING WAGON for a large portion of the day.

If it wasn't true yesterday what makes it true today?

[RCEnigma]

Highly doubt RCE/Norwee are scum/scum because bussing is very suboptimal in a nightless elo

While yes it's suboptimal people play suboptimal all the time. I know it's not plausible from my pov but from outside it's feasible. Why? Because the only way I'm scum is I'm designated as a hard bus day 2 and agree to off Bingle in the night knowing I was already in the bottom of everyone's Poe except bingles.

The only way I agree to be hard bussed though is if both my partners are hard clear on my flip or I'm tied close enough to a town slot that a miselim the following day is guaranteed.

[RCEnigma]

Not the game is going anywhere but I'll be able to get back to this tomorrow or Tuesday morning. Before I get prodded here too I urge someone to go through T3's iso and look at interactions with Norwee.

I have a point to make there but it'll have to wait till I've got time to dedicate here.

[RCEnigma]

Ehh I wasn't going to be able to get back to mafia till today but that got tossed I see. Sorry I wasn't able to be here or convince town to lim scum instead.

Good game though.

[RCEnigma]

If the game goes into night pile on norwee, if the third was in the Lim pool day 1 or 2 there's a chance scum already blew docs and jks

[RCEnigma]

Idk who the third is tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Or was that not hammer? Do you mind unvoting if that's the case?

[RCEnigma]

Oof. Sorry I didn't have the time over the weekend to get here.

[RCEnigma]

REDACT EVERYTHING!!!!

[RCEnigma]

The mafia player rand:

Has good and accurate reads / Is good at convincing others to their cause / is able to obvtown

Choose one! (You will suck at everything else)

I'm just 3 and it makes my scum game super easy to spot. Shoshin hammered this home in a mini theme like 2 years ago and instead of getting better at scum my whole plan was to make my towngame shit and push it as a meta shift.