Open 825 - PYP X/Y: HoS_S [game over!]

[Bee]

VOTE: Flea the Magician

Fight me.

[Bee]

How are you Penguin?

[Bee]

People posting WOOOOOOOOOO.

[Bee]

Spoiler:

[Bee]

[Bee]

Bee is Vigilante 100%.

What inspired this comment?

[Bee]

Because you are first in queue

Go on?

[Bee]

(Can someone this game yell at me whenever I reply without quoting what I am replying to.)

[Bee]

Hum.

[Bee]

How are you Penguin?

LET’S GOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Bee]

Your list is upside down!

[Bee]

ManateeGal and Thor didn't post but share diffe... Oh right, memes.

Why do you think it’s a meme?

[Bee]

Because it's not truth, why two people who didn't post on different positions.

Manatee has votes on her, Thor doesn’t. What do you make of that?

[Bee]

Also, why mention Thor explicitly?

[Bee]

Someone post.

[Bee]

I owe you my life.

[Bee]

I’m on my lunch break and want to INTERACT.

[Bee]

Enchant, do you have any particular reason for the Titus vote?

Bee is Vigilante 100%.

Why would you reveal that?

-Harvey

It's obvious, every townie worth salt pick Vig.

I might if I were early on
idk about others, would bee feel confident in her SRs enough to shoot them down?

btw I've been trying to think of ways we could trap scum using claims and I don't think there's any objective way to find scum using them

There’s no such thing as a bad vig shot.

And I don’t think there is unless they try to claim something that someone else took. But otherwise they can either true claim or VT and we won’t know until night actions.

[Bee]

Your list is upside down!

what do you make of me voting manatee then?

I’m unsure.

I wrote it off as a first page wagon and then that reads list happened and I don’t know if I agree with the assumption it’s making? I think it’s making one but it seems farfetched because it assumes 2 scum in a pool that small that fast.

[Bee]

(The assumption being scum start wagon on scum partner early when it doesn’t matter much.)

[Bee]

@Gamma, I do have one small nitpick with you so far that I’m sitting on independently of the vote.

[Bee]

There’s no such thing as a bad vig shot.

And I don’t think there is unless they try to claim something that someone else took. But otherwise they can either true claim or VT and we won’t know until night actions.

I disagree, I've seen a bad vig shot firsthand

also I think scum have enough wiggle room to know what should possibly be a safe claim to make? There's room for error I guess but I feel like the fact they get to coordinate factors into this

Just narrowing the POE...! I don’t think I’ve ever successfully shot scum as vig.

And yeah, maybe after a bit they’ll have fake claims if they want. I’ve never paid attention to runs of this setup but do scum generally go for claiming roles they don’t have or is it played safe?

[Bee]

@Gamma, I do have one small nitpick with you so far that I’m sitting on independently of the vote.

okay. It doesn't have to be now but I'd like to know what this is at some point

Sure. It’s not important enough to press on now and probably better not to.

[Bee]

*Interesting* comments going on here.

[Bee]

The thrill of being first in draft was something I never realized I wanted until I was blessed with it.

[Bee]

Why didn't anyone pick 0?

Not a real number.

[Bee]

Why didn't anyone pick 0?

Not a real number.

Why did you pick 5?

I wanted a number that I thought wouldn’t be picked but wouldn’t put me low!

[Bee]

My favorite number would have put me in end of the list jail.

[Bee]

I meant 3. ):

[Bee]

I think next time this is ran, everyone should pick 9999999999999999 but vary it by one or two 9’s to make it hard to figure out who goes where.

[Bee]

I think it’s 1 because you are 1 of a kind in my eyes. (:

[Bee]

S_S is one of my clones now apparently. :>

[Bee]

Look what you’ve done!

[Bee]

No, never!

[Bee]

Should I order sushi.

[Bee]

Why shouldn’t I do it I could have a good experience to make up for your bad one!

[Bee]

I’m getting sushi.

[Bee]

I’m getting a rainbow roll and you can’t stop me.

[Bee]

Everyone’s jealous of my bland tastebuds.

[Bee]

Maybe that’s why you didn’t like yours?

[Bee]

Wasn’t it mentioned like a few pages ago that scum have done that before?

[Bee]

I’m gonna order two crowbars.

[Bee]

LOOK.

I get sick when I eat most other kinds. ):

[Bee]

...it’s good. ):

[Bee]

Wah.

No one supports me.

[Bee]

LOOK.

I get sick when I eat most other kinds. ):

there are plenty of types of vegetarian sushi!

Well what should I get next time!!!

[Bee]

Wah.

No one supports me.

Hey, I've got your back on this one, personally. Not sure what's up with the sushi hate.

You are my savior... my light in the darkness... but also somehow the darkness in the dark.

Why’d you have your townreads earlier?

[Bee]

Haley, are you the head that was around earlier?

[Bee]

Hi, Worst!

[Bee]

.-.

UNVOTE:

[Bee]

No, just undoing my vote while I catch-up. :>

[Bee]

Yes!! Can't believe you just pretended you didn't know me. >.>

[Bee]

This isn't a secret alt by any means, just want to play a bit different while still being kind of myself. :>

[Bee]

(Also the name BEE of all things wasn't taken!!!)

[Bee]

You too! :3

[Bee]

is there a basis for the enchant wagon im missing?

mine seems to be based off of lack of content or interactions which is... fine considering what i've done so far.

Why is it fine? What's the problem with pushing awkward, low content slots?

i dont know what youre trying to get at here

You seem to have a problem with the Enchant wagon.

I was toying with the possibility that Manatee & Enchant might both be scum during my catch-up, but ultimately dismissed it as being unlikely on general principle.

What's the principle?

[Bee]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

[Bee]

Also what is that comparison. .-.

[Bee]

I like Ydrasse as town lol

I don't think you've ever TR me so I went 'yay' IRL :3

[Bee]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

It's shit play to refer to ongoing games when addressing a read on somebody because anything that person says in response can lead to a ban.

I don't give a damn if Gamma gets mod confirmed as all innocent child at L-1, I'd hammer him just for ban baiting me.

I mean yeah it sucks but also getting that mad about it that fast in conjunction with dismissing two other people and parking there is ??

[Bee]

getting that mad about it that fast in conjunction with dismissing two other people and parking there is ??

Clearly, we haven't met.

Hi. I'm House.

We've met briefly!!

Hi, I'm Ydrasse. :>

[Bee]

VOTE: House

1) I feel like your anger at Gamma is like.... really fast. It escalated up to "no kill one of us" in a way that doesn't feel organic to me.
2) I don't know how much you've played but you're an older user and I find it kinda unbelievable that you'd dismiss two scum wagons D1 because they happen not an uncommon amount imo.
3) I like Gamma and Manatee as town right now so woo.

I see your townreads on the other wagons of Gamma and Manatee, but thoughts on the Enchant wagon? Enchant's alignment in general?

Kind of wanted to raincheck this but, Enchant is more likely to be scum than Manatee but less than House imo? I don't know what to make of Enchant not caring about the wagon on him. Like if it's because he doesn't know how to engage with the people pushing him or because he doesn't care. He's posted content but it's not engaging on stuff that matters as much. :<

[Bee]

I think Thor is town. .-. Why would you fake that level of number analysis and keep going with it when you’re adept at faking things and could do normal things to get you townread? Calling it busywork seems shallow and if he was scum wouldn’t he have partners saying like “say this or that” instead of him keeping himself caught up in it?

And if he believes it for real then he’s just town anyways.

[Bee]

It reminds me of you in Silent Star.

[Bee]

I associate busywork with negative too and I think people are using it as a scumread way.

[Bee]

Stop the theatre and sheep me, folks.

-Harvey

What’s the theatre?

[Bee]

Hi. House why aren’t you voting Thor?

It feels weird that you two aren’t voting each other but you made a comment about laughing if Thor and Enchant flipped scum so idk if that means you scumread them. :<

But the wagons aren’t dissipating and you don’t seem inclined to fight to live. You just feel inflammatory.

[Bee]

I'm so gonna laugh if Thor & Enchant both flip red.

Okay you were questioning Thor in 608 and also Enchant so I just don’t get why you’re laughing when you have these concerns that you can point out and one of them is the only other counterwagon but you’re just like haha no.

I didn’t think Thor was scum and still don’t but this is a ? moment so... what’s up?

[Bee]

Also I know this was brought up yesterday but even if Hoopla did that analysis at least Thor was building off of things and applying it to this game in a way that is sensible in the context of the theory so he’s thinking and thinking of what to do with this info so that’s what makes me think he could just do something more interesting if he was scum than this. x_x

[Bee]

Bee, why Thor is mafia?

I don’t think he is but the VC is weird.

[Bee]

I do think that it’s more likely that town!Thor would just do his own thing going from his behavior though and divine his numerological scrolls to vote instead of doing anything else given experience with him.

[Bee]

Hi. House why aren’t you voting Thor?

It feels weird that you two aren’t voting each other but you made a comment about laughing if Thor and Enchant flipped scum so idk if that means you scumread them. :<

But the wagons aren’t dissipating and you don’t seem inclined to fight to live. You just feel inflammatory.

Ice already explained why my vote is where it is.

I have zero desire to remain in a game where a player is allowed to base his entire push on something i can't even respond to without getting banned.

The fact he's lying through his teeth is why i refuse to move off Gamma. If he was actually town, he'd have moved his vote ages ago.

So, yeah, go ahead and eliminate me based off of outside influence. Because that's totally within the rules.

Why would he have moved it? He expressed that he found your reaction scummy regardless of it being over this OGI thing. (I don’t want to drag it up again but I don’t think I can avoid it here so sorry.)

[Bee]

House and I are both town in my opinion

Why?

[Bee]

Do you see the reason the Thor wagon is happening? o:

I don't like it And I feel meh wrt Emerald, not bothered to build up that wagon though.

House, let's assume Gamma wasn't in the game: who would you vote for then, and why?

-Harvey

I don’t see scum!Gamma right now but why not wagon someone? Just because of the effort vs the other two?

[Bee]

Not to mention, if you're willing to trust Gamma's read of me over Titus, who knows me 20x better than Gamma... well, piss off.

I don’t know if this is at me but my vote on you isn’t because of Gamma’s read...

It’s for stuff like this I guess? And you called votes on you lazy earlier too.

[Bee]

I think he might be mad about that regardless and also he’s been kind of mad a lot of the game or at least irritated :<. Do you think that if he’s been able to sustain it it’s less likely to be fake?

[Bee]

Not to mention, if you're willing to trust Gamma's read of me over Titus, who knows me 20x better than Gamma... well, piss off.

I don’t know if this is at me but my vote on you isn’t because of Gamma’s read...

It’s for stuff like this I guess? And you called votes on you lazy earlier too.

Your excuse for voting me is even lazier.

It's not scum-indicative to get pissy about being voted for "ongoing games" and being unable to point out how it's a load of bullshit without getting banned.

That ruins the entire fucking game for me, and i have zero desire to effort when this kind of crap is allowed to happen.

:/ You don’t have to make the game like this for other people though.

[Bee]

Whatever.

[Bee]

I don’t see scum!Gamma right now but why not wagon someone? Just because of the effort vs the other two?

Early game I like seeing fast pressure and wagon momentum, and House is a slot I'm fine with a wagon on currently.

Not a fan of his disengagement with the game after the Gamma spat, especially considering he scumreads his most popular counterwagon.

I'm disinclined towards breaking that momentum just to build a wagon on a slot I don't feel very strongly about, and that other players have shown a lack of interest in voting alongside.

-Harvey

I’m not a fan either but idk. I feel kind of shitty about the vote there right now.

VOTE: PenguinPower ?

[Bee]

(I know PP is fine for voting with other people but yeah.)

[Bee]

I think he might be mad about that regardless and also he’s been kind of mad a lot of the game or at least irritated :<. Do you think that if he’s been able to sustain it it’s less likely to be fake?

He's much better at burning bridges that weren't there rather than building them, he's not giving much reason to anyone to not vote him which shows the lack of a scum motive

IDK I go the opposite direction with this and think he’s burning bridges to say look how much I’m fighting and no one is on my side but I’ll let him be for now because I don’t want to get into it since he’s not going to move his vote. :/

[Bee]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

?

[Bee]

VOTE: Miss Midnight

?

Manatee or Enchant would be better votes if you're determined to let a player hide his lies behind a claim that can't be addressed without rulebreaking.

Look I’m sorry but I really don’t think Gamma pushes you by lying and having that be a defense instead of being able to say something? That doesn’t vibe with me at all. I really wish you would just... IDK. Sorry that this keeps coming up but I just can’t understand that being the angle. I’ll reread it when I’m home that entire interaction if you want but for right now I don’t see it like you do.

[Bee]

I don’t have a good reason honestly I’m just trying to find somewhere that works.

I’ll be back after work/on break.

[Bee]

Thor is smartest person in this game.

[Bee]

[Bee]

:/

I think voting Thor is a bad idea unless someone has a case other than busywork/not normal content. Like, is the information being put forward actually being used maliciously or anything?

[Bee]

This is Town Thor.

As scum he suddenly turned passive and boring in our game.

I don't believe he would act differently if he is scum from start.

^ This is true. He was having fun and doing his own thing when he was town in this game. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12932079

[Bee]

OK this is absolutely busywork and some weird ass BS.

Do you think it's scummy?

I'm starting to lean that way.

I love mech spec, and if you look at the style of games I play I tend to go for mech heavy or bastard games. Looking at the games I've run (all 2 of them - still need an outside reviewer for the second) you can see I love mech weirdness.

If you want me to get down and dirty in the mech here, I can and I will, but the conclsion is always going to be the same. The human element alone here is enough to throw the spec out of the window.

I can tell you what my options were that I was going to choose from, and few people will actually believe me because of how I approach these games.

I was looking at PGO, Vengeful and Universial Backup. I'm not going to say what I actually selected but I was looking at those as I sent my number in.

Wait what does your role and what you wanted have anything to do with this, like, offhandedly bringing this up?

Your vote on Thor was :/ to me because I see him as you in Yin and Yang where everyone jumped on you for not playing the game the same way. What differences do you see in your play there and what’s happening now?

[Bee]

:< I do like S_S right now too tbh which is weird because I don’t think I know how to read him well.

[Bee]

You can read me 100% by checking your scum PT and seeing that I am not listed there

What’s your read on me?

[Bee]

Did it not bother you the first four times he did that?

That shit was setup spec.

I'm less than clueless about setup spec in this game.

Activity theorizing, however, I'm very familiar with. I'm a spammy motherfucker as either alignment and have always been that way, so it's something i see a lot of discussion about.

:/

I think voting Thor is a bad idea unless someone has a case other than busywork/not normal content. Like, is the information being put forward actually being used maliciously or anything?

Bee, being spammy with no content is suggestive of scum. We don't need an ironclad case D1 just >rand scum.

I don’t think that it’s spammy though? And it’s content even if it’s not what’s traditional content. I don’t want to vote out someone like that today.

Who else would you want to vote?

[Bee]

What’s your read on me?

Moderate scum off of draft position + your posts have done nothing to reverse it.

:/

What about them though?

[Bee]

VOTE: Enchant

[Bee]

I’ll try to respond later Flea I need to focus on work for a bit.

[Bee]

Meanwhile my working theory is scum is Enchant, H and H and Thor.

Can you explain your H+H read? I read your earlier posts on them but I don’t get what you’re trying to explain in them.

[Bee]

report posts you think are rule breaking and let's move on pls. this is a distraction

[Bee]

I'm 90% confident Thor is partially memeing and chuckling at how people respond to his posts

-Harvey

This feels cheeky to refer to a partner like this.

[Bee]

Boss is back.

*runs away*

[Bee]

I'm 90% confident Thor is partially memeing and chuckling at how people respond to his posts

-Harvey

This feels cheeky to refer to a partner like this.

This is true. Nice observation.

I'm struggling here b/c aspie. I'm not sassing by asking this question.

What do you mean by cheeky and why are partners unlikely to do it?

So if they’re partnered together H+H knows that Thor is actually probably laughing at the posts they’re making because they are silly to make as scum (or I think they are given what Thor could be doing). It’s strange to then go and point this out playfully in the main thread, or to even think that it’s a post they should make as all? It feels more natural as non S/S.

[Bee]

Boss is back.

*runs away*

*laughs in work from home*

>_> Stop taunting me when I am sneaking these in when she walks away.

[Bee]

My head is killing me but I don't wanna be a prod-gainer.

Manatee not jumping on Midnight despite wanting to apply pressure and having a decent reason to do so from early game seems like it's a good thing unless they're S/S but I don't think Midnight advocates for a wagon on her partner like that.

[Bee]

if enough people arent reading it the same way i am then im ready to admit my interpretation is wrong

and
VOTE: Enchant

^ Looking at Manatee regarding House, this feels like a more important post than 1017. There was a brief conversation with House and Manatee backs off before going onto Enchant and then retreating a bit.

[Bee]

Not a fan of 1123, but that's just a disagreement with logic; not particularly alignment indicative.

Which part doesn't follow logically? To me, it made sense that a scum!Manatee would have someone who wanted her dead early wagoned and be able to vote there without a lot of scrutiny? It's a lot easier to fake than going on someone else, especially given Midnight's absence.

[Bee]

if enough people arent reading it the same way i am then im ready to admit my interpretation is wrong

and
VOTE: Enchant

^ Looking at Manatee regarding House, this feels like a more important post than 1017. There was a brief conversation with House and Manatee backs off before going onto Enchant and then retreating a bit.

It's not really clear to me that ManateeGal was townreading House in 1044 or just moved their vote to another scumread with a growing wagon.

Oh, I wasn't talking about it in regards to the townread. I should have been clear.

I think it's more like, there was resistance that was perhaps unexpected and so Manatee just... gives up on that avenue and comes back weaker/unsure? I don't know if that's scum regrouping or just... being unsure though, because it sucks when everyone disagrees and makes you doubt.

[Bee]

Not a fan of 1123, but that's just a disagreement with logic; not particularly alignment indicative.

Which part doesn't follow logically? To me, it made sense that a scum!Manatee would have someone who wanted her dead early wagoned and be able to vote there without a lot of scrutiny? It's a lot easier to fake than going on someone else, especially given Midnight's absence.

Scum distances & buses.

I've run buddies up as scum early in the day before, because townies always get distracted by the next shiny thing to come along.

Do you think Miss Midnight does it in the manner she did? It feels out there to just say "frozen scum, pile on the votes, let's kill."

I think bussing is something that happens early but it doesn't feel like that wagon was one scum on another. It's also a bit on the nose to see your partner not doing anything and go 'frozen', kind of like HH wrt Thor.

[Bee]

I don't think Midnight fits the bill of 'active scum'.

[Bee]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

What’s the point of this question?

It feels like a... idk if it’s a loaded question but isn’t the simple answer that it’s probably going to be town? It feels like a rabbit hole to go down and speculate on what Thor might or might not do as a player without a lot of payoff.

[Bee]

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

What’s the point of this question?

It feels like a... idk if it’s a loaded question but isn’t the simple answer that it’s probably going to be town? It feels like a rabbit hole to go down and speculate on what Thor might or might not do as a player without a lot of payoff.

yes it's loaded
the fact miss midnight decided to waffle on the thor read rather than acknowledge the chance I could be town feels like a pretty solid portent of her motives

Did she really waffle though? The way I read it is:

Miss Midnight sees a vote from Thor that she thinks is scummy, she voted there as she doesn’t see why town would do that/how it’s helpful. She’s referred back to the vote as scummy which implies that she thought his actions were scummy?

I don’t think she’s partner reading you two so the votes don’t really like... matter to her if it’s one scummy person voting another? How do you see it because I’m not getting it.

[Bee]

Phone posting is the worst thing. >_>

[Bee]

okay, but it feels like she's putting more emphasis on the gamma!scum read than the thor!scum read

and if you don't get why I think that's scummy, see below

I'm not sure I see the relevance. I don't think that everything scum does has to be part of some scum plot or agenda. Think that this may have just been a not really thought through vote indicative of the underlying mindset, like I said.

what alignment do you think scum!Thor would be more willing to hop on for bad reasons?

Why does it matter? If you're trying to argue that me thinking this should lead to me believing that you're more likely to be town, I'm not so arrogant as to be unable to consider different worlds in which I may not be right. I can scumread Thor but consider a world in which he's town but you're scum. And vice versa. Not all of your scumreads need to be fit together as partners at all times without any flips whatsoever, that would be a wildly ineffective way to play the game.

it feels more like you're trying to skirt around the chance I'm town because I'm the juicy miselim wagon rn

I don't get it still even while reading what MM's saying about you. It doesn't feel like she's skirting around it but just admitting that it might not be right or fit perfectly together. Which I feel is like... a "good faith" approach because she's willing to admit it might not be right and the implication in that is that you could prove her wrong and she wouldn't still try to yeet you.

[Bee]

OK this is absolutely busywork and some weird ass BS.

Do you think it's scummy?

I'm starting to lean that way.

I love mech spec, and if you look at the style of games I play I tend to go for mech heavy or bastard games. Looking at the games I've run (all 2 of them - still need an outside reviewer for the second) you can see I love mech weirdness.

If you want me to get down and dirty in the mech here, I can and I will, but the conclsion is always going to be the same. The human element alone here is enough to throw the spec out of the window.

I can tell you what my options were that I was going to choose from, and few people will actually believe me because of how I approach these games.

I was looking at PGO, Vengeful and Universial Backup. I'm not going to say what I actually selected but I was looking at those as I sent my number in.

Wait what does your role and what you wanted have anything to do with this, like, offhandedly bringing this up?

Your vote on Thor was :/ to me because I see him as you in Yin and Yang where everyone jumped on you for not playing the game the same way. What differences do you see in your play there and what’s happening now?

Bringing it up to give evidence of the human element, because frankly I ain't a normal human. You look at the list, and think about what you would pick, then compare to what I'd narrowed my options to - bearing in mind even if I was the first to pick, that would be my pool.

I haven't voted for Thor either, my vote is an RVS vote that stuck.
The difference in mechanical information available is the difference here. I was using in-game mechanics as I believed them at the time. Thor has gone as far as the game setup is not randomised but arbitrarily picked, and now as far as pagetop counts. The setup rand I can forgive, I saw that as a legitimate mistake. If it turns out I know the player behind the alt, that could change. Going on pagetops and out of game mechanics is considerably different to what I was doing.

I’ll try to respond later Flea I need to focus on work for a bit.

Just bringing this back, because I want to know what the response is

Whoops.

I think I was wrong on the initial comparison looking at it now and what you're saying. I was correlating like... anyone doing something 'wacky'/hyperfocused as to what you're doing in that past game but given you were using an in-game mechanic and Thor wasn't it wasn't really a fair way to approach it. The fact that you weren't immediately relating it when I was felt wrong with workin' eyes.

[Bee]

I don't know what other options I'm open to today but I prefer Enchant over Gamma.

[Bee]

I don't get it still even while reading what MM's saying about you. It doesn't feel like she's skirting around it but just admitting that it might not be right or fit perfectly together. Which I feel is like... a "good faith" approach because she's willing to admit it might not be right and the implication in that is that you could prove her wrong and she wouldn't still try to yeet you.

That would be a good faith approach if it was being applied without bias, which it definitely isn’t

Is the bias in the post that you quoted?

[Bee]

I'm not asking that to be snarky I just don't understand what you're getting at.

[Bee]

I think I was wrong on the initial comparison looking at it now and what you're saying. I was correlating like... anyone doing something 'wacky'/hyperfocused as to what you're doing in that past game but given you were using an in-game mechanic and Thor wasn't it wasn't really a fair way to approach it. The fact that you weren't immediately relating it when I was felt wrong with workin' eyes

I'm also curious where you thought I voted for Thor?
Even if its a blip I'd like to know which post gave you that thought

Looking back I have no clue. .-. I think there were some votes going around on him then or something and I thought you were on the wagon.

[Bee]

Idk

Not really feeling either the Gamma or the Enchant wagon

Idk

Not really feeling either the Gamma or the Enchant wagon

don't feel bad for this, stock in the enchant wagon is tanking and you're in a good spot

Join me back on mm then. You really scum reading gamma here?

Oh I love the good place.

I think it's shallow but tbh I haven't seen anyone else give a reason to townread MM, shallow or not. The wagon kind of just disappeared.

That isn't something that I haven't elaborated on. Actually not trying to sound snarky here, but you can just read my ISO.

To bring up something new: self-serving though it may sound, I do think that his recent posts about me are genuinely just sort of bizarre in a way that resembles flailing. Again, someone correct me if there really is something I'm missing, but I think that Bee pretty much read the situation exactly in 1309 and most of the stuff Gamma has been saying has just been non-sequiturs.

I think this is a pretty good post and a more convincing reason for Scum!Gamma than any other that I've seen put forth so far.

When you moved your vote from Thor --> Gamma, I thought it was kind of implied that you were scumreading Gamma more heavily than Thor. The omission isn't scummy, and framing it as such is a pretty weird push from Gamma.

VOTE: Gamma

E-2

CSF, could you explain why you went from voting MM to Gamma? I don’t see anything obvious about what you were thinking beyond liking the read from MM (which tbh I agree with but seeing this progression is ??)?

[Bee]

I feel like I’m gonna pass out. Don’t drink caffeine. Goodbye.

[Bee]

Tail swishing gif.

Enchant, the read itself wasn’t contingent on the ongoing games part, the basis was about the timing of House’s posting. The ongoing games part was about Gamma’s comfort in reading House IIRC. So you’re wrong.

[Bee]

Enchant you acknowledge your perception of things is wrong (...kind of), so does that change what you’re thinking about Gamma?

[Bee]

Can you quote that post?

[Bee]

I don’t know if it’s notable given the context of it was based more on timing that wasn’t triggered by the voters. :V

...that being said I’d like to see if this is an actual misunderstanding + what Gamma thinks of Enchanf just saying oh sorry I thought you said this. They’re both on each other but it feels a bit more ? to Enchant because Gamma hasn’t come back since.

I don’t think these two wagons are S/S given the fact that they are voting one another though and don’t seem keen on saving each other somehow.

[Bee]

Why did you move to Flea, Titus?

[Bee]

It's weird because I didn't think I'd be down to flashwagon Manatee but I'm actually down to do that if anyone else is.

[Bee]

Kinda down with Flea too but I think that'd be like drawing blood from a stone with how fae would react.

[Bee]

It's weird because I didn't think I'd be down to flashwagon Manatee but I'm actually down to do that if anyone else is.

Kinda down with Flea too but I think that'd be like drawing blood from a stone with how fae would react.

i am but a slave to popularity.

VOTE: flea

back to enchant if this doesn't take off.

Feel like Manatee's reaction would be more useful than Flea's from experience but we RIDE.

VOTE: Flea

[Bee]

Your cat looks like it needs medical assistance

That's Me. Fuck You.

[Bee]

Your cat looks like it needs medical assistance

That's Me. Fuck You.

Avoiding the hefty medical bill?

Shut The Hell Up.

[Bee]

Your cat looks like it needs medical assistance

That's Me. Fuck You.

Did you have the sushi again?

No it was my birthday so I treated myself and ordered from a really nice restaurant. (:

[Bee]

She definitely had sushi

I'm Taking The Kids.

[Bee]

Ty!!

[Bee]

Your cat looks like it needs medical assistance

That's Me. Fuck You.

Did you have the sushi again?

No it was my birthday so I treated myself and ordered from a really nice restaurant. (:

A really nice sushi restaurant?

happy birthday

No!! Japanese steakhouse!!!

ty :3

[Bee]

I hate all of you and I'm going to watch critically acclaimed movie Eclipse goodbye.

[Bee]

Fight, fight, fight.

[Bee]

*Waves hand.* Me.

I'm not the biggest fan of it either because I don't think it'll /do/ much from what I know of Flea but I feel wishy-washy about the main two wagons ATM and I want to see what happens.

I think wagoning Manatee would bear more fruit right now even if I don't especially think she's scum because she's more reactive and won't dig in her heels which is what I think Flea would do: self-vote or say "kill me go ahead" as fae has done before, especially since fae isn't around ATM. Manatee also promised some isos today which I don't really want so much as in the moment talking to us. It feels like a bit of a cop out and maybe the pressure would help her get more into the game and over the freezing.

(This is me asking if anyone will move to Manatee with me.)

p-edit: That world feels more possible than some tbh.

[Bee]

VOTE: ManateeGal

*Nod.*

[Bee]

*Waves hand.* Me.

I'm not the biggest fan of it either because I don't think it'll /do/ much from what I know of Flea but I feel wishy-washy about the main two wagons ATM and I want to see what happens.

I think wagoning Manatee would bear more fruit right now even if I don't especially think she's scum because she's more reactive and won't dig in her heels which is what I think Flea would do: self-vote or say "kill me go ahead" as fae has done before, especially since fae isn't around ATM. Manatee also promised some isos today which I don't really want so much as in the moment talking to us. It feels like a bit of a cop out and maybe the pressure would help her get more into the game and over the freezing.

(This is me asking if anyone will move to Manatee with me.)

p-edit: That world feels more possible than some tbh.

Mm, I feel like we should be beyond pressure wagons at this point.

I disagree in the case of Manatee. Having a way to get her back into the game and being reminded of why I TR her potentially is useful for me at least. Worst case Manatee's frozen still and I return to one of the big two and see if people are willing to let them build up again.

[Bee]

PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT SUSHI. ;_;

[Bee]

I disagree in the case of Manatee. Having a way to get her back into the game and being reminded of why I TR her potentially is useful for me at least. Worst case Manatee's frozen still and I return to one of the big two and see if people are willing to let them build up again.

I think that we've already seen a demonstration early on in this game that a wagon on Manatee doesn't seem to serve to get her more invested in the game. Especially one that people explicitly basically say is a pressure wagon.

I agree that you can always just switch your vote again later. But there's still an opportunity cost, I'd say.

The hope is that a later hour and explicit need for something to bring her in that it does something. I don't think there will be an issue rebuilding what was there previously and if there is there is probably an issue unearthed from that that can be explored. I think the cost is not that great!!

[Bee]

^Two good takes.

[Bee]

MM, what are your reads?

Spoiler:

I feel like there’s a lot people either miss in translation with you or choose not to because you seem to be clear in what you’re saying and making an effort to do so in your processes. I thought that the point about your energy levels and when you pop up and how you do to be a pretty good thought beyond just lol frozen scum but ultimately your content has like... a precision to it that I’m uninterested in voting out ATM and would rather pick your brain or have you spew it out for us. :>

[Bee]

Also I have some thoughts regarding Thor and they’re funny ones but he shouldn’t have to out his alt.

[Bee]

Today’s a mental unhealth day. I’ll try to be around before I sleep or tomorrow but I can’t right now, sorry.

[Bee]

VOTE: Enchant

More if I’m around before flip but I don’t wanna flip Titus.

[Bee]

Hi I threw up 10 times or something so I’ll be around tomorrow when I’m home sunglasses emoji love you all game thread good night

[Bee]

I feel like death WOOOOOOOO.

Some thoughts from a morning skim, miserable in bed:

- I think Thor is town; this is a controversial take but previously I saw Enchant’s meta defense of Thor and liked it. This has more strength now, imo, because it felt like a more concise explanation than some of the other reads Enchant gave. I don’t know if Enchant is a strong enough scum player to give that sort of read on a scum partner even if it isn’t a home run meta read. Also, going back through some of Enchant’s games I’ve seen him make this sort of defense on a player who was town and under pressure where he basically WKs them and says “they just feel town guys!! Just town!” Even if what Thor’s doing is silly I think it’s town-silly rather than scum.

- The worst was probably killed for reads, given the fact he got Enchant + his placement in the draft makes it a coin flip if you’re going to try for that. I don’t think it’s Thor and of the three remaining (Flea, MG, MM) I’d vote the last two today because Flea’s given me townpings today. Knowing that it upset MM to be pushed for activity makes me feel bad but s: it’s a pattern and her interactions with Enchant don’t look good in retrospect. My feet are very cold on this though because I like her posting a lot and don’t want to vote her because of that on a personal level. If MM is scum I think Manatee looks worse from D1 where she didn’t vote her but I still don’t know if they’re S/S. >_>

I’ll be around later but please forgive me MM. ;_; VOTE: Miss Midnight

[Bee]

vote count 1.24

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-09-03 17:20:00).

yeet

Gamma Emerald [6]:

Miss Midnight, the worst, Thor Ragnarok, Auro, Cat Scratch Fever, Flea The Magician

Enchant [6]:

Bee, PenguinPower, ManateeGal, House, Gamma Emerald, Titus

not voting [2]:

Something_Smart, Enchant

mod notes

~ dual mod iso

flavour

I’m also inclined to believe that this iteration of Enchant’s wagon is more likely to be all-town than the EOD one. MG is the only questionable person on it.

[Bee]

I’ll catch up tomorrow or tonight if I have the time!

[Bee]

No comment on the Thor thing. Unfair to talk about.

I just haven't been feeling playing much lately. ._. Life is mean and my body hurts a lot.

And regarding the PR thing: I'm happy to not out what I know yet. I think it's more useful to intervene with it if necessary; the fact that I haven't been pushing hard on things should reflect on that mindset, I feel? I have been thinking about why I would be alive and I have like, two or three ideas in my head about why. These are... also probably better left unsaid right now, but closer to EOD if I feel it's good I'll say.

Some of the wind went out of my sails on the MM thing and I felt really bad about it but also I had just recently ~liked~ someone's posting and wanting to support and vibe with them and it backfire so bleh.

We have a few more days so I am probably going to take one more before I really get back into this, because I'm hoping I'll feel marginally better since it didn't pan out like that for me. :/ Sorry if that's lame but I don't wanna throw a hissy fit in another game.

[Bee]

I’m not commenting on that.

[Bee]

Why is it interesting exactly?

I’m at work so not able to really talk — S_S is annoying in how he approached me. I don’t know if this translates to scummy but it probably does. Everyone knows I am a PR but no one broached the subject and as town I think he’d realize that my behavior was intentional and be able to extrapolate from there. I haven’t been a loud voice but I have /used it regardless./ Instead he pushes on that point and tries to get me to talk about what I know which feels like fishing on whether or not I’m killable or a miselim. This is why I talked about not throwing a tantrum because I feel like I’m being scrutinized for playing correctly lmao.

Your old head had a really shitty early game read on me which made me go ? because it was iirc accusing me of being fluffy when I’d posted non fluff at that point. In the context of a meatier post that seemed off. You being wagoner right now feels like the natural place where this game would go but I don’t scumread the people on your wagon (mostly). Nullscum without better places to go and you and S_S could be S/S wagons.

p-edit Hi S_S sorry to scumread you when you show up today.

[Bee]

Back to work, bbl.

[Bee]

One thing though before I go is that I sympathize with 3082 and I feel like this game is just like... people going to vote and it kind of makes sense but it feels like there’s some rhythm everyone else is following and I don’t understand how they’re getting there.

[Bee]

It goes against my thoughts on alting to reveal that much even if I have guesses.

And I might later. Nothing feels good so. Yeah. Bbl for real now.

[Bee]

I suggest the D1 VCs as those had the most competition/changing around.

I also forgot Flea was in this game. .-.

[Bee]

S_S is annoying in how he approached me. I don’t know if this translates to scummy but it probably does.

For what it's worth, I think it doesn't. I'm much more of a pain in the ass as town.

I... honestly don’t know. You’re genuinely the hardest person for me to read on site for some reason, or one of them.

[Bee]

Which sounds like hyperbole but I just read you based on everyone else and VCs you’re this little hole in my reads in games where your tone haunts me.

[Bee]

How so?

I will take any hints on sorting both of you because... yeah I can see that now or at least IdK how to read you well either.

[Bee]

Huh. Okay then. IDK the veracity of that for S_S but I’ll take whatever I can get it.

[Bee]

I don’t think Flea and Auro are paired. :<

[Bee]

If Auro is scum I kind of think Titus makes sense as a partner?

Given his last post about her (I’m on mobile)+ UB is a good pick for that point in the draft + no one is actually defending him but he’s trying to distance a little bit but it feels awkward and weak.

If S_S is scum I think that Flea is his partner more likely, Flea having him and CSF in fae’s pool but voting CSF and prodding there on the premise (?) that CSF’s vote on S_S was bad is because fae isn’t talking about it being a bus or anything.

[Bee]

Auro and S_S could be partners I guess but my reads there are independent. The one issue I have with the Aurosolve listed above is the fact that I townread Titus when she was around. :/

[Bee]

If Auro is scum I kind of think Titus makes sense as a partner?

Double meme pick seems pretty unlikely to me.

Oh, huh.

Could be that they both wanted to meme and then ended up benefitting but that’s a pretty inelegant approach to the solve.

[Bee]

Because I’m trying to think about this game in a way that makes sense to me and approaching it as 1 person today only wasn’t getting me anywhere.

[Bee]

I want more than what boils down to coin flipping with a little spark because look at Radio Buzz. >_>

[Bee]

I’m against claiming ATM.

[Bee]

The way you presented S_S at the end of your catch-up as bottom of PoE felt clunky to me after the way you approached CSF, but I was assuming it was them together. :/

Why did you have S_S as POE?

[Bee]

I think associatives can be rabbit holes, sure, but it’s the easiest way for me to contextualize behavior as AI when I tend towards more emotional play / understanding (which I am trying to fix on this alt). Like it makes me look at things in a motivation way that’s usually harder for me.

[Bee]

I still think Thor's town, yeah.

And I've seen Titus bus like... her entire team. .-.

[Bee]

Repping out of that game saved me so much anguish.

[Bee]

...well if that’s the case everyone good to hammer today? Shoot S_S if Auro town if Auro scum shoot SM or Flea? Probably the former because even if they’re accepting of it... yeah.

[Bee]

S_S is probably town tho.

[Bee]

VOTE: Auro

BONK.

[Bee]

Kinda busy today, will be around later tonight/tomorrow morning!!!

[Bee]

Zzz I don’t have a lot to say right now. Was busy most of this weekend. Don’t know how Flea / Auro fits as a team off the top of my head feels wonky but will revisit early game when I remember them scuffling today, for real after work.

[Bee]

I’m at work but I’m trying to read now and hoping something soaks in while I do spreadsheets.

[Bee]

Confirming, have two innos alive + will be around more when I’m home.

[Bee]

I hope this explains why I’ve played so restrained this game and why I was pissy over not claiming yet with S_S. :>

Is there a point of outing them right now or can I keep waiting a bit? I’ve been trying to see where people would push but this game is dead so I don’t mind getting a little wild, we have a pool of four left so it might just be worth it.

[Bee]

Oh!! I didn't mean like "I'm not gonna out them until E3 or tomorrow" I just meant more like... ~48 hours to deadline to see if anyone pushed a wagon that I had an inno on or something. Waiting another dayphase would be the big throw.

[Bee]

Okay well, I have innos on Thor and Titus, and I checked the worst but he died.

[Bee]

So for Thor I checked him because I wanted confirmation that he was town that I could actually like tell people was real beyond just my word? I thought he was town here but like me saying that doesn’t mean anything if I die and it’s only ever been my word for it and someone pushes him like “well she was wrong on her read.”

For Titus I checked her if you look at back at my posts yesterday, I couldn’t get over the doubt that I had there and I got caught up on thinking about the double meme pick because in reality it is more likely to get you a middle of the packish place because repeats happen bu beyond that without her here as much I was like what if she threw me a townread at the beginning and hoped I’d go with it?

Also I wasn’t ever going to check someone like Flea which might seem dumb since we came into today thinking about that elim but Flea isn’t playing to be a deepwolf or anything if fae is scum and isn’t someone who would be a fight to get elimmed just off of a acumread and not hard results. So Titus felt better than Gamma/CSF, who I think are a little townier by play.

[Bee]

Also for worst I just wanted to know if he was town or not because he’s a really good player and I’d rather just know than try and read him all game.

[Bee]

I considered checking S_S as well for similar reasons (that he’s unreadable) but my feelings were influenced by Radio Buzz.

[Bee]

You’re a bit easier to... resolve? I think there’s a dichotomy between you and Flea which means that like. You’re not in the same tiers as the others.

You weren’t in my solves yesterday either, anyways. :<

[Bee]

It’s why I didn’t check you last night?

[Bee]

My priorities with my checks before last night are clear though I feel?

[Bee]

Okay this is too many question marks?

I’m sorry if they’re not good checks to other people but they were good when I was thinking about them to me, I usually don’t play investigative roles so I just went with it.

[Bee]

Okay...

Who should I check tonight? I don’t think people like my choices. >_>

[Bee]

:s I’ll vote either Flea or CSF, don’t think it’s Gamma don’t think it’s Penguin. Feel bad saying this after Flea is going AFK, but like... agh.

I wanna say I wanna vote CSF today more so I can check one of Penguin/Flea tonight but I probably die for that in the night but also idk how else to get Flea to engage outside of the tunnel because it seems to be either PP or self hammer for fae. If fae is open to anything else I wanna know because I don’t get how this is the game winning move especially after seeing Flea in other games. Feels bad.

[Bee]

My reservations with Flea are the like... ah. The early tunnel on Auro that petered out when it was like, useful for scum I guess? The Enchant wagon around there were some posts not defending explicitly but still taking off some heat imo for a bit.

[Bee]

Flea if you have the energy could you please explain what gambit Penguin is doing because I don’t see one? Like is it just going scorched earth on his team because that’s... pretty suboptimal.

[Bee]

^Will vote tonight between Flea/CSF.

@CSF why is Gamma a better check than PP?

[Bee]

Ahh, okay.

I feel like I am overthinking things ATP.

[Bee]

VOTE: Flea

Yeah I'm just gonna assume this is it lol.

[Bee]

Teamwork.

[Bee]

Huh, okay.

I should prooooooobably die today because fuck dealing with endgame WIFOM.

CSF inno.

I'll be around later tonight or tomorrow to post some thoughts.

(Hi Pooky!)

[Bee]

IDK why I'm alive. ;_; I have to die though.

Spoiler: POOKY ONLY

I think it might be Gamma since I think he was the least likely person to be checked by me (FMPOV at least) so gambling that I don't check him means he gets to F3 with like, whoever I didn't inno + one of my innos.

[Bee]

Pooky ily but you're wasting your efforts when I'm fine with death. :< Wanna just solve with me today and then hope F3 is an easy win?

[Bee]

Yes but then there's going to be my funeral and then it'll be really really sad and then you'll probably be killed tonight so we'll be in the grave together tomorrow.

[Bee]

Spoiler:

I had sushi tonight again and Hectic was making fun of me while we were watching a movie for it going "aww why do you do this you know it hurts your stomach" and then he mocks me when I say how good it tastes and now I just want to eat more out of spite so it's a vicious sushi cycle."