Newbie 2078 - Game Over

[Titus]

Hi there. I would like to welcome you to mafiascum. The following comments are comments (not verbatim) I try to make in every newbie game. Don't treat them as indictative of my alignment.

These are possibly your first games playing mafia aka werewolf online. Some of you it may be your first game ever. This is the place to find your own style, however unique it may be. Have fun with it. People may read you wrong and you could be wrong. That's even true of us veterans. After awhile, you may think differently than a newbie here. You have a distinct advantage in reading fellow newbies as the emotional state is better. Don't hesitate to ask for what you need to get better, especially post game. Feel free to give me feedback too.

You can always ask what a role does. This isn't just a thing in newbie games. Seasoned veterans have questions about more complex setups. Lastly, jailkeeps and roleblockers do not send a message to their target informing them they were blocked. There may or may not be one in this game, but I got busted as scum for assuming the opposite.

The start of the game is what is called RVS or random voting stage. We all vote randomly/jokingly until people generate reads.

_____________

Hi Grandpa.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

[Titus]

Also, depending on the rate of the game, you may wish to tell others when you're unavailable. This tends to happen closer to deadlines. This is so people can determine who is available for hammer.

I'm unavailable Thursday nights for date night.

[Titus]

AlwaysNever caught me! I'm going to chainsaw on his behalf to try and fool him.

VOTE: Greeting

Join me Grandpa

[Titus]

I'm lactose intolerant - I hate chickens.
VOTE: A to Z

LOL hates chickens, doesn't vote the guy with the chicken avatar. Our first inconsistency. Weak as hell but our first.

VOTE: Dorsey

[Titus]

Great!

Dorsey no longer belives his argument on why he voted A to Z in the first place. Retraction!



P.S. There's more on giphy.com. Eat your heart out.

[Titus]

Oh Datisi got the page top shoot.

Side note: I don't actually care for pagetops but it's a running joke I don't really get because Aspie. Mods like them for obvious reasons.

[Titus]

#votesharder

[Titus]

So we're out of RVS because you say so? You literally just got here.

Don't like this. If someone's able to make content, then they are out of RVS.

[Titus]

What I'm saying is there has to be some kind of transition point or period. How were we supposed to know that you weren't going to do RVS? And which one of my votes do you think was outside of RVS?

The end of RVS is not a fixed time.

[Titus]

I like most of the posting on this page.

[Titus]

Will look at detail this evening.

[Titus]

I guess I just don't know what content is, because none of what's been presented has looked damnable to me. It might not be RVS, but it's definitely a half-assed voting stage - maybe that's the transition period.

("For once"? How long have we been playing together?)

Content doesn't have to be damning. It just needs to be something that makes someone appear to be >random chance that someone is town or scum. Opinions can, and do, change over time. As the game progresses, more evidence is gathered and people weigh that evidence.

Four ommon types are tone, meta, voting analysis, and associations. Tone is whether someone emotionally feels like scum. Meta involves comparing this game to past completed games of the same person. Voting analysis takes people's votes and determines who is scum. Associations or associatives, look at how people treat other slots in the game. Unflipped associatives are generally viewed as the weakest form of evidence.

[Titus]

I can smell the desperation of Dorsey to get the attention off himself. I always find this suspicious in mafia games.

What I'm about to say is obvious to (I think) everyone but I want to show my train of thought. The goal of town is to remove all of the mafia. The goal of the mafia is to remove enough townies so that their number equates to that of townies. Since the numbers of mafia are far smaller than that of town, the loss of each mafia goon is, especially at the very beginning of the game, is a bigger blow to the mafia than a loss of a townie being a blow to the town team. In case of this game, from what I've gathered, we have a 2 mafia-7 townies setup. The mafia really

cannot

allow themselves to throw any of those two under the bus, especially in the earliest stage of the game.

That being said, I shall change my vote and VOTE: Dorsey.

I don't like the tone of this post.

[Titus]

I'm doing my part.

While you wait, can you give reads on slots without factoring in why they are pushing you?

[Titus]

@Titus: I don't know how to do what you're asking of me.

Hopefully some of the more exploitative players are becoming obvious

Please lay out where you feel stuck.

Who do you feel are the exploitative players?

[Titus]

VOTE: Greeting

Dorsey, wagon here?

[Titus]

I don't really read Greeting as desperate. I just get a sinking, dark feeling when I read his posts.

[Titus]

I wonder what the reactions will be when I flip town, which I am.

Comes off a little strange. Why the comment so far from elimination?

Looks lamisty. Why are you supposing you'll flip? Do you feel scum are on your wagon?

[Titus]

VLA Sept 17th through the 20th

[Titus]

And yes, I'm putting them at e-1. If you wanna hammer them, go ahead; they're more than likely scum anyway.

Icky.

We wait for a claim before hammering. The theory is we don't want to flip a confirmable PR.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Greeting

I has theory.
I needs sleep.
Will review tomorrow.

[Titus]

VOTE: TL the legend

That's likely either a wolfy pop on or a wolfy bus.

[Titus]

Plus the sass rarely comes from scum (could be coached but still).

[Titus]

UNVOTE: i forgot i never unvoted them/ pivoted my vote off from rvs.

lets not just quick hammer so quick yet. lets wait for a claim / reaction

Are you happy with greetings "claim"?

How do you feel about it?

[Titus]

I'm still waiting to hear Titus's theory from Post 163. Or how she differentiated between TL being a 'wolfy pop on' or 'wolfy bus' (Post 172).

I already detailed the theory. Also, I didn't discriminate yet. Wolfy = scummy.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Greeting

I has theory.
I needs sleep.
Will review tomorrow.

VOTE: TL the legend

That's likely either a wolfy pop on or a wolfy bus.

Plus the sass rarely comes from scum (could be coached but still).

[Titus]

So thoughts so far:
Greeting's comment is really weird when they're only at e-2, and no one else seems too willing to vote them. Post 143 seems like a classic scum tactic, that being the whole "i'm town, vote me and you'll regret it" thing. Their posts are all weird and I feel like at best, they're bad town.
Dorsey still feels weird to me but idk.
UhUh's posts are all just nonsensical to me. I can't figure out what the hell he's trying to say.
Everyone else seems town-ish, so I'm thinking scum has to be two of these three.
In light of this, I'm changing my vote to VOTE: Greeting

i thinkif greeting flips town >> the team is probably tl + dorsey?

there is a chance where dorsey is misguided town and dorsey was tvt against greeting but i would have to analyuze that more

Okay.

I think there is always one scum between TL + Greetings. These interactions are still holding up and associations between everyone scumreading greetings and the quick shade off to TL.

I think we always lim between those two if everyone agrees. That flips determine the other person's flip. Let me break it down for you.

If TL flips scum > Greeting is town > Dorsey is scum
If Tl flips town > Greeting is scum > Dorsey is town

Why can't TL and Greeting be scum together?

[Titus]

Be careful posting in the future Greeting. If I was the mod, I would not have edited your post unless the content was 18+. I might have spoilered obnoxious gifs. I have no idea what you meant but I guess the mod determined your error wasn't content.

My current theory is TL plus greeting. TL should claim.

[Titus]

That wasn't the right statement to make. I don't need context I need an explanation for the logic gap. I get the TL pop in being gross, Agreed. I get Greeting being towny by proxy (not via the attitude), not really agreed there but I get it. I don't get the jump from TL scum greeting town to TL scum greeting scum.

If you thought greeting could still be scum why the wagon switch?

In both universes TL is scum. Greeting is only scum in one.

[Titus]

What is the universe greeting is town in? Because, yes I had the thought that they could be partners but I'm gonna level and let you know I'm also starting to suspect you are chaining elims here.

Fair but both of my theories depend on TL scum, hence why I want him first. If he's not scum, I need to reset. If he is scum, chaining is AoK by me.

[Titus]

Be careful posting in the future Greeting. If I was the mod, I would not have edited your post unless the content was 18+. I might have spoilered obnoxious gifs. I have no idea what you meant but I guess the mod determined your error wasn't content.

My current theory is TL plus greeting. TL should claim.

Seems like a weird thing to comment on.

Clearly accidental errors can be rectified. There shouldn't be an issue.

It's a warning for the future. Everything, even accidents, can help someone get a read. Most accident errors cannot be rectified. Instead, people state what they'd fix in another post.

[Titus]

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2021-09-16 19:30:00).

[Titus]

What’s up with GrandpaMo? They make 15 posts in a row and then disappear for days.

Correct. If I wasn't in zoom court, I'd check to see if he was posting elsewhere.

[Titus]

Too many prods guys.

VLA today. My taxes are due tomorrow. Go self employment.

We need an elimination.

[Titus]

Willing to Eliminate GrandpaMo if he is subbed out.

[Titus]

I could still submit a night action, if I have one. Keeping up and remembering to post are the issues.

[Titus]

I could still submit a night action,

if I have one.

Keeping up and remembering to post are the issues.

Is that a claim?

No. See bolded.

[Titus]

Feeling a bit uneasy about eliminating TL.

[Titus]

GrandpaMo is not being replaced. See Mod post at the top of the page.

[Titus]

Why are you now uneasy about eliminating TL

I don't know...I was partially expecting a PR claim.

[Titus]

If not TL, then who

I don't know, hence why I haven't moved my vote. I'm worried I am wrong on Greeting. I wanted this resolved by my vla. :/

[Titus]

Ok, I feel better about eliminating TL's slot.

[Titus]

I'll prioritize this game because of this being the newbie queue. I'm officially vla now.

[Titus]

That's crazy timing, though. I say all of the SE's can't be town and GrandpaMo pops back up.

His VLA ended today.

[Titus]

Also, as a side note, my posting will be very limited this weekend since im going camping

You should bold your VLA.

Second, you'll be vla during the deadline

[Titus]

this quick change in opinion really warranted a reason cause.... huh? 3 post from Hockey and you're suddenly like, "I'm ok with this"? why though?

HockeyFan's bad read on me.

[Titus]

avoiding dorsey's question by pointing out gpa (thanks hockey that's a great nickname) is actually not being replaced. hmmm

Not a dodge. My willingness to eliminate GrandpaMo depended on them actually getting replaced.

[Titus]

So yea my lim pool is {Tits,Uhuh}

Yet his vote is on Greeting.

[Titus]

VOTE: KennyK

While I think HF is scum, I am not willing to gamble on brute forcing an elimination people object to or a no elimination.

[Titus]

Or a very lucky Doctor that saved someone? That'd be nuts

Technical possibilities are no kill, doctor or jailkeeper.

But mafia no kill is surely very rare.

This must have been an act by a Jailkeeper. Good news for us, but the downside is that we get less reads. Thanks, whomever you are.

Nonetheless, TL/HockeyFan flipping town is disappointing, but their death may give us something to work on.

Did you get any message last night?

[Titus]

I'm in the middle of compiling a larger post atm. My thoughts tend to be chaotic so I'm trying to put them in order.

Or a very lucky Doctor that saved someone? That'd be nuts

Technical possibilities are no kill, doctor or jailkeeper.

But mafia no kill is surely very rare.

This must have been an act by a Jailkeeper. Good news for us, but the downside is that we get less reads. Thanks, whomever you are.

Nonetheless, TL/HockeyFan flipping town is disappointing, but their death may give us something to work on.

Did you get any message last night?

Ehh. I didn't want to be too explicit with it in order to not have you killed. But since you're asking directly,

a friendly bird told me that Titus is town

.

wtf is this?

are you outting?

Now I'm starting to think whether I have been tricked into accidentally breaking the rules.

You did not. You shouldn't out (although it's totally legal) if someone doesn't ask. I asked you to out because your knowledge of a jailkeeper would have meant you were the jk or scum otherwise.

[Titus]

Alright, so we have 8 alive. 3 conftown.

If the jailkeeper claims, then we get 3 conftown today.
Miselimination, 7 alive
Nightkill, 6 alive --- 2 conftown
Miselimination, 5 alive 2 conftown
4 alive, melo 1 conftown

If a kill gets blocked tonight
7 alive bc mis elimination
JK succeeds, 7 alive
Miselimination
JK dies, 5 alive, 2 conftown two scum

2 conftown elo.

[Titus]

No wait only 1 scum. 1 conftown elo.

[Titus]

No wait, the JK could have jailed scum, my math is off completely

[Titus]

I do think the jailkeeper outing themselves and who they jailed is a good move but people may disagree.

[Titus]

I don't know why you were so quick to assume that could have been jk >> I feel like you could be scum for pressuring a slot to out -- ur justification is still not completely justified due to confbias.

I'm a friendly neighbor.

There was no nightkill.

The only protective with a friendly neighbor is a jailkeeper.

[Titus]

Also Greeting confirmed me as town soo

[Titus]

if JK jailed scum, wouldn't the other scum be able to do the attack anyway? or nah?

Yes, but there would have been a successful nightkill. Scum have to pick who does the killing.

Kinda think AlwaysNever is town for not getting this.

[Titus]

Also Greeting confirmed me as town soo

... so it could theoretically be a (bad) scum trick. You and Greeting are scum no NK and claim friendly neighbor and JK.
I know this could easily be counterclaimed by any other town PR. But theoretically it is possible.

VOTE: KennyK

Yeah, only possible if we managed to not kill a single other PR or get caught by them in night actions nor CCed. That's not even a strategy I'd let a newbie do and I don't really care to win in newbies.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: KennyK

I am bad with jokes.

[Titus]

I have a general question. And allthough some don't seem to like people who try to work more on the game mechanic side, it has to to with just that.

I totally see, why the JK shouldn't claim just now. The only info gained is his target for n1 which is either scum attacker or scum target. So worst case is the JK targeted another townie, we miselim that townie and our JK is NKed. So our JK should stay silent for now.

But what should he do n2? Protect Titus our only confirmed townie, try his first target again in hope that he got scum as his first target and the same scum tries to kill again or try his luck with someone else?
Protecting Titus might lead us (with very lucky NKs) to a 2-1 situation where Titus has to do the right choice between scum and JK.
Trying the same target again could lead to a no kill again. But only if our JK did hit the scum assassin. If he targeted the scum target or mafia changes the killer this leads nowhere.
Targeting someone else is a total gamble.

Any other thoughts on this?

If we don't reveal the target, the jailkeeper should be engaging in a practice known as crumbing. This is subtly putting things into their post to find later on to see who was jailed.

As a strict measure, the jailkeep should always be on me. Scum always know the alignment of their kill target. If they shoot there again they a) lose the wifom and b) a shot at finding the jk. They also expose themselves to more blocks.

If the block target was scum, scum are just going to send the other guy towards me or a jailkeep suspect.

Jailkeep outs tomorrow btw.

[Titus]

Dorsey, can you expand upon GrandpaMo?

[Titus]

VOTE: wait and See

I feel Dorsey has a better grip than I do.

[Titus]

Guys we need votes.

[Titus]

Not a fan of always never reads. Take stances.

[Titus]

My next 3 weeks after today are shot to crap at a minimum. My boss (who I don't see in person) got covid.

X post all games.

[Titus]

Willing to vote AlwaysNever.

[Titus]

Interesting, I'd like a VC.

[Titus]

Are some of you guys in primary school

I don't know why this is necessary

I'm going to elaborate on most of my null reads in a very long post, hopefully I got to do it before the time is up or for the arbitrary time period of "prod range" that Dorsey mentioned.

I'm still standing by with what I read, you can call it non-read, you can sus me for it, but that's what I think

I like this. Still, this needs better reads and if it wasn't such a small game I'd give him time.

[Titus]

Both targets need to claim given the deadline.

[Titus]

We have 6 hours. I would prefer Dorsey alive.

Please someone break this deadlock though.

[Titus]

Three hours guys and we need a hammer.

[Titus]

Hmm leaning kennyk