Newbie 2078 - Game Over

[AlwaysNever]

Yoyo I'm here
Been a while since I actually played Mafia again, thanks for having me

-snip-

VOTE: Titus

Your long wall post ain't gonna fool me!1!1!1!

[AlwaysNever]

Oh, and I forgot. VOTE: AlwaysNever

uhhhhh....

VOTE: Greeting

[AlwaysNever]

also grandpa mo's not participating in RVS.... why??

[AlwaysNever]

-snip-

Oh, and I forgot. VOTE: AlwaysNever

uhhhhh....

VOTE: Greeting

Hello there!

You have a very interesting greeting, Mr. Greetings

I'll keep one eye on you at all times.

honestly i rlly honestly forgot about this game. im like running 5 games at a time, i dont recommend kek

Busy, understandable. still though.... your opening posts are off somehow....

VOTE: GrandpaMo

[AlwaysNever]

Busy, understandable. still though.... your opening posts are off somehow....

expand on that read?

five post in short succession, barely half is what I can consider "content" rest is filler, it might just be your style but it doesn't feel good for me

you're not the only one though with off-putting posts, but the rest haven't posted as much

[AlwaysNever]

because i was in rvs?? you have to realize, that was my first couple of posts. i do this in every game. its nai.

some people have posted more, and you're right, it's NAI, but I'll keep my other eye on you still.

UNVOTE: GrandpaMo

Now, now. I'm actually still waiting on A to Z's slot so that I can properly assess everyone, but we still have days until Day ends, so I don't mind waiting. I'll reveal my standing on y'all then

I'll be able to put some effort towards this game tomorrow or Tuesday morning the latest.

Thoughts with no further context:

Titus town
Grandpa iffy
Dorsey slightly townie
Alwaysnever slightly above dorsey
Greeting is meh
I had something about uhuh but immediately forgot what it was
Dew I've got nothing

Can you at least give some clearance over why I'm above dorsey or why Greeting is 'meh'?

[AlwaysNever]

And who is "we"? You weren't here yet

that's semantics, he meant GrandpaMo, me and RCE probably

At what point did the votes become serious? Especially if no serious reasoning was given? Not rhetorical.

If the vote's not serious you can really just unvote and call it RVS vote as you claim it is, the fact that you haven't and then keep coming at TL is definitely coming off as really sus right now.

also random gutreads:
grandpa mo is weird
dew is neutral
dorsey is probably the scummiest rn, but don't really wanna vote em yet (mostly bc i don't wanna omgus, but also because it's really early to put them at plur)
alwaysnever is pretty townie to meh, as is uhuh
titus is town.
finally, RCEnigma is neutral, but slightly town-leaning.

I am missing?

might be because your post hasnt been that impactful yet, or an honest mistake really

aaanyway, my own gutread, now that everyone is here:

{}
{Titus, RCE}
{Everyone else}
{GrandpaMo, Dorsey}
{}

(top is strong townlean, bottom is strong scumlean, middle is null in case you need context)

[AlwaysNever]

@AlwaysNever
1. You answering for TL The Legend isn't valid for me. Also, the names you listed - their votes look random.
2. "Keep coming at TL" is an exaggeration and inaccuracy - I don't know if I can trust your judgement.

I am not answering for TL in any way, I am just pointing out how it is pointless to debate semantics, and I'm also pointing out that you haven't unvoted TL (even until now unless I missed it) and you really didn't reply at that here, curious

And also did I insinuate that you should trust my judgment? I don't know why you have to say that but I guess that's your way to discredit my post mebbe

Also Always Never, i agree with dorsey for once, you dont need to defend me or answer for me, I'm perfectly capable of holding my own. It's not like I'm getting voted off or anything, it's just a weird vote to me

i keep almost using the l-word help i'm old

That is really not my intention if anything, I just want to point out what I feel about it

I think it's moreso about clarifying. I don't have the luxury of privileged information, which is why I ask a lot of questions about things that don't make sense (you can see that everything you quoted is a question, not an accusation). Also, my intent is to set town up for success in the instance I am eliminated by asking all the questions no one else seems interested in asking. I need the reasonings (or lack thereof) for my demise to be highlighted in stark contrast so the appropriate parties can be held accountable.

I don't like how you stress that you don't have the luxury of privileged information, if what I read is right this looks LAMIST to me

I'm doing my part.

Again this smell like LAMIST to me, I don't know why you have to post this other than just trying to make yourself look as town as possible

because i was in rvs?? you have to realize, that was my first couple of posts. i do this in every game. its nai.

some people have posted more, and you're right, it's NAI, but I'll keep my other eye on you still.

UNVOTE: GrandpaMo

Now, now. I'm actually still waiting on A to Z's slot so that I can properly assess everyone, but we still have days until Day ends, so I don't mind waiting. I'll reveal my standing on y'all then

I'll be able to put some effort towards this game tomorrow or Tuesday morning the latest.

Thoughts with no further context:

Titus town
Grandpa iffy
Dorsey slightly townie
Alwaysnever slightly above dorsey
Greeting is meh
I had something about uhuh but immediately forgot what it was
Dew I've got nothing

Can you at least give some clearance over why I'm above dorsey or why Greeting is 'meh'?

I've moved you back to null actually.

I thought your push against grandpa was promising but we didn't actually see the same thing. With that in mind I have to take the interaction at face value where I wasn't initially if that makes sense.

Greeting is meh because his vote on Titus is really weak but it doesn't definitely mean scum and I've got bigger fish to fry.

I'm sorry that we can't see eye to eye yet, but thanks for the clarifications

SEs being on the top of most readslists + not being engaged as suspects from the beginning makes me think 2 newbies make up the scumteam.

Just a random thought.

or its one SE and one newb and you're just posting this to throw the scent off of you

And if you're saying there's '1 scum in between', which one is the scum? And how are you drawing this conclusion? And why would the scum not be Dew if she initiated the interaction?

i am saying there is one scum between because of how the interaction initiated. i am saying you are never alligned here. so one is either town or scum. and no dew can still be town here -- it doesn't matter who initiated the conversation. yes it was an rvs vote, but the way you questioned could be from a town pov or scum pov then how dew continued it in post 17 just further confirms that.

please read before taken words out of context. and also dorsey wtf do u not understand about this .. its just a simple basic read that i wanted to start for discussion so far you have been very keen on potraying like im scumalligned with either or, which i have not pushed either one u. im not even targetring that read at you specifically nor at them. its a general read. u might be scum being paranoid due to this and scared that i was scumreading u lol

the fact that you of all people are saying this... really considering taking you off my scumlean and putting you back to null now.

[AlwaysNever]

you know what, looking at the entirety of Dorsey's post again, I can really see that they're either pro scum trying to look town or have a defensive playstyle that just rustles my jimmies in the worst place, so cause the day is still so long I'll give Dorsey the benefit of the doubt and not vote them yet. If anything I really don't want to vote off a fellow noobie who's probably trying their best in their own way

[AlwaysNever]

Also I was reading Greeting's post, and can't help but imagine it being narrated by twirly, mustached villain who's trying to play everyone lul.

[AlwaysNever]

in order not to spam this thread Imma just throw out my thoughts while I read everyone's ISO:

Dorsey:

you know what, looking at the entirety of Dorsey's post again, I can really see that they're either pro scum trying to look town or have a defensive playstyle that just rustles my jimmies in the worst place, so cause the day is still so long I'll give Dorsey the benefit of the doubt and not vote them yet. If anything I really don't want to vote off a fellow noobie who's probably trying their best in their own way

Greeting

Also I was reading Greeting's post, and can't help but imagine it being narrated by twirly, mustached villain who's trying to play everyone lul.

extra point: I really like post 120 tho, but even though he shares the same suspicion I had on Dorsey, the vibe I feel from his post to vote Dorsey felt off

Uhuh:
wait lul Uhuh's RVS is literally just voting dew with no reason given, then he's just straight into reading Dorsey
need more posts

Dew:
I feel like I was seeing me back when I first played forum Mafia
need more posts

Titus:
Have been giving vague response, but generally is being helpful to Dorsey
I want to see more though, it's like you're holding back your posts or something

RCE:
no weird feelings, good posts so far
still really want GrandpaMo to answer him

GrandpaMo:
Conflicted, he shares the same suspicion I had on Dorsey, but it still doesn't discount how weird his opening posts are

TL:
Fairly null, but I like how he stood up to Dorsey
need more posts

[AlwaysNever]

And yes, I'm putting them at e-1. If you wanna hammer them, go ahead; they're more than likely scum anyway.

hmmm I don't like that

I wonder what the reactions will be when I flip town, which I am.

Comes off a little strange. Why the comment so far from elimination?

Looks lamisty. Why are you supposing you'll flip? Do you feel scum are on your wagon?

I don't know why you even reply like this, nobody really voted on Uhuh yet so there's no "wagon" per se, just vague feelings and reads

And yes, I'm putting them at e-1. If you wanna hammer them, go ahead; they're more than likely scum anyway.

Icky.

We wait for a claim before hammering. The theory is we don't want to flip a confirmable PR.

I’m going to be petty and not claim anything.

I mean anyone quickhammering you right now would be probably yeeted just as quick next day anyway so you don't hafta

If

always flips town then we yeet always/grandpa/tl/dew

in not that particular order but it's 2/4 scum with 0 night action input. Even if we miselim D1 and d2 there's 2 scum left in the pool of 3.

On the other hand we could flip always first and if they flip red the last scum is in dew/Dorsey. Pretty confident grandpa would be town with that flip and always chainsawed them on the back of the non-aligned read.

how can you yeet me if I already flip town what
also why would dew be one of the last scum if I flip red? that's kinda a whuh moment to me. I kinda get why you think Dorsey would be though
I wouldn't be that confident about Grandpa if I were you, fyi
and also you used the same word Titus used in her RVS vote against me.... what if... Titus + RCE?! nah I'm reaching lmao

There were only 3 when it was originally posted? And one was an rvs vote in the first place.

yeah really man... if you guys have an RVS vote that you can't justify no more, please unvote
I'm glad GrandpaMo did, that earn brownie points to me
would be really stupid if we quickhammer someone when there's still almost a week left till deadline

[AlwaysNever]

I feel like AlwaysNever's responses to everyone else in Post 137 was nice and placating, but edgier towards me. I don't know why responding to accusations (being "defensive"?) would 'rustle anyone's jimmies', and how can I be a pro anything when this is my second game? It just seems like a lot of extra for a guy I never addressed.

I don't know why GrandpaMo is so hell-bent to make me scum, first because Dew referenced my profile pic and now because Greeting is being opportunistic. And I don't know if Greeting being "petty" and not claiming is anti-town or if it's anti-game. Either way, I don't know what issues he's dealing with.

No offense but it only seems edgier cause you're cutthroat with yer words and shades so I'm just matching your vibes. It rustles my "jimmies" cause I personally don't like that lol, so I'm taking a step back and reassessing things, that's why I clarify that I won't vote you
I am aware at least that you're a fellow newbs, and by what people have said in RVS, this can be your second game here but you might've played a lot elsewhere, or offline even, I wouldn't know. It's just my assumption, and if it's wrong then I'm wrong
Also I don't really care if you think that's extra, that's who I am. I don't need you to address me for me to call you out. I know, however, that tunneling you might blind me to others who are being sus, so I hope we can cooperate with each other from now on.
Hopefully this doesn't sound extra to you


Also if anything, anyone can easily pile votes on you cause of that, hell I almost did, but I took a step back and realized it's probably just how you do things

[AlwaysNever]

Also I was waiting for Titus theory before I reply this but it never came, instead Titus is back with the single line posts, what is going on there

[AlwaysNever]

also Dorsey I just find it really curious how you say in Post 130 that I'm an absent slot, when Uhuh and Dew at that point were also kinda absent but you didn't call them out
If you do flip red Dorsey, I think one of them might be too tbh, plus TL

[AlwaysNever]

Meant greeting.

If you flip red then your push on grandpa becomes an alignment indicative association. Challenging grandpa on that read implicates one of Dorsey/dew since the intent to downplay the read is to discredit it. Which scum wouldn't have an incentive to if both were town. It makes grandpa town in that hypothetical world. He is as of right now in my Poe as I stated before.

That changes on certain flips being certain alignments so in general preflip associatives are not a good tool to build reads with.

hmmm good to know, thanks for the explanation

And I don't like that RCEnigma is trying to make me scum with AlwaysNever, but the logic he put forth made sense.

Is......is your partner someone else?

Fwiw Dorsey you're tied for my top town and honestly I will always have an asterisk next to Titus unless mechanically clear just because I know she has the potential to be very sneaky scum. As of right now she isn't playing to the scumgame I'm familiar with.

What's the one Titus scumgame you're familiar with, for starters? I'm curious cause it's like she's somehow... restrained herself in her latest posts

[AlwaysNever]

It's moreso I had stuff to say about them but nothing to say about you.

Oookay let me know when you do then

But yes, we have a playstyle and personality difference. I have to defend a lot because people take pot shots because I post a lot and engage the easiest. It's more convenient for them to address me than to seek out the people who are lurking or who don't offer any opinions of their own.

definitely not a call out to me huh

Didn't know I was cutthroat tho

sure

I have quite a lot of thoughts with regard attempt to vote me out, but I think I'll keep them to myself for the time being.

But why
I wanna know

[AlwaysNever]

I have quite a lot of thoughts with regard attempt to vote me out, but I think I'll keep them to myself for the time being.

But why
I wanna know

It's too early for that.

Ok thats fair

UNVOTE: Greeting

I has theory.
I needs sleep.
Will review tomorrow.

VOTE: TL the legend

That's likely either a wolfy pop on or a wolfy bus.

Plus the sass rarely comes from scum (could be coached but still).

I was expecting more but I guess that's kinda my fault lol

And also I have a wild theory but I'm outside right now, I'll type it as soon as I get my thoughts in order and I can comfortably type it out

[AlwaysNever]

What's the one Titus scumgame you're familiar with, for starters? I'm curious cause it's like she's somehow... restrained herself in her latest posts

You're gonna get me nk'ed bud. Titus town. But if you want a game for reference off the top of my head Boon Warz has low effort Titus!scum for comparison.

hopefully not
still can't find the game you refer, it is in mafiascum right?

anyway...

I think Greeting is right though, so far TL has been voting people that were mainly sussed about by majority of the players (it was GrandpaMo before with his iffy starting posts, then it's Greeting with his borderline anti-town posts) so calling his vote opportunistic is correct

I still think we should wait for whatever elaboration TL have before deciding further though, cause personally I have people higher in my list that I like to vote out instead of TL

[AlwaysNever]

Oof TL that's..... not what I was waiting for, at least
If there's nothing left to discuss, I don't mind voting TL, if anything clearing his slot might give us something for the next day

Also for dorsey, my thoughts right now, it might be Titus out of those three. And I think it's not entirely because of a certain wagon that the threads lull, if anything I think that's irrelevant and just happened because life

[AlwaysNever]

What’s up with GrandpaMo? They make 15 posts in a row and then disappear for days.

He did say he played in like... 5+ games
Madness I'd say

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79970

The boon Warz game I mentioned earlier with Titus!scum. It's the last time I played with Titus rolling red I believe?

Thanks man, hope you don't get NK'ed lul

[AlwaysNever]

-snip-
And okay, Always, I'm ready. I'd rather end the day while we're within prod range.

Within prod range?

[AlwaysNever]

VOTE: Greeting

Your suspicion on Greetings are duly noted, Dorsey. Dunno why you have to vote but it is duly noted.

Second Reading Summary 15/09 (1^st)

.[/color][/b]

I think I have a better idea now that I have had a chance to reread all the posts. Below are all my reads.

Readings of note	Read
RCEnigma*	Lean town
Titus	Null to Lean town
Dorsey**, GrandpaMo**, AlwaysNever	Null
TL***, Greeting***, Dew****	Lean Scum

*Like the lines of inquiry. I am careful not to mistake SE experience with town alignment though.
**Odd playstyles. Don't know if this is AI or not but reads off to me. Dorsey's votes are erratic and they jumps at things too quickly, often without any explanation. GrandpaMo's seems to have this thing with hammering in theories hard without enough evidence.
***One of these. Rapid E-1 votes and context read this way.
****Dew is here because the low posting is now making me suspicious.

even uhuh has no explanation on his titus read... but also no explanation for me. I don't know what to think of that.

Consider this my intent to hammer TL by 9 p.m EST.

Last words and rituals should be spoken and danced by then.

Err actually let's not end day till deadline on account of the V/LAs

if we stall the elim till deadline theres only a 1 day offset for the v/las. thats better for all involved.

I am signing up to be your backup hammer, just in case you aren't there by the time deadline's coming

And, Greeting, you're a compromise because we have to get rid of someone and I'd rather get rid of you than TL

And you've both been at E-1, so I don't get where you're coming from.

That’s not a compromise. It would be a compromise if you voted for TL. You voted for a second option (me) which had two votes until now. That is really scummy behaviour. If TL is voted out and is scum, I’m coming for you next.

what if TL is town?
if TL is scum though I agree, dorsey is one of my candidate

[AlwaysNever]

Ah crap I thought the day ended, this is a massive turn of events, I might need some time to read through Hockey's posts and readjust my position on their slot, and also kenny when they do post after this, but I'll be sure to do it quick before the prod range time, like Dorsey said

Welcome, welcome though!

[AlwaysNever]

Short version of my catching up:
Goddamn I don't think I can hammer Hockey now

Long version might come soon but that's all for now, if anything I don't know who to fuccing elim now

[AlwaysNever]

too much mechanics talk from UhUh and too little game-moving content. This is not AI but I do want to see some more content from uhuhwaitandsee(like asking questions, making reads, giving thoughts e.t.c)

been saying that and they end up doing so (they post it with this purple font, if you miss it), I still have a feeling that they might be but I usually wait until day 2 to really start sussing seemingly inactive people cause they're LHF until then

Ok after reading Grandpa'a ISO one more fking time since its so god damm confusing, I am formally declaring him as a TL. This is a meta read since ive played with gpa a fair bit on other sites and this aligns with his town meta(dont let him fool u by saying his town meta is to be pro-town, cuz its not)

I'll make note of this if you flip red

A to Z, blazehd, and TL the Legend (now HockeyFan) were all the same slot.

Does Titus still think HockeyFan is scum?

they said that they're more comfortable on elimming TL('s slot) now here on 337

[AlwaysNever]

I could still submit a night action,

if I have one.

Keeping up and remembering to post are the issues.

Is that a claim?

No. See bolded.

is that a softclaim then

I answered your possibility with a possibility - I'm comfortable with the risk

You haven’t really left any hard clues as to whom you think is mafia. Someone before had characterised your playstyle as defensive, a statement I can agree with. Voting out a townie, as a principle, is not beneficial for town. TL did say that they strongly believe me being scum for some vaguely specified reason. If they’re town, they apparently are willing to sacrifice themselves to make their point. So, assuming that TL is scum and you are voted out Day Two, being town, what benefit would it bring?

a brownie point for you, keeping my one eye on you still

[UhUhWaitAndSee/RCEnigma/Titus] I still think it's one of these

Are you that paranoid of RCE being scum? I can agree with the other two

Feeling a bit uneasy about eliminating TL.

Ok, I feel better about eliminating TL's slot.

this quick change in opinion really warranted a reason cause.... huh? 3 post from Hockey and you're suddenly like, "I'm ok with this"? why though?

-snip-

Overall, I think theres at least 1 scum on this wagon(would say 2 but idt scum buddy up like this to get a mislim). I claim VT, idm getting voted out, u should probs look at

Greeting/Titus/RCE/UhUh

when I die imo

it is very interesting that this is the same four people that Dorsey were focusing on, either by voting them or asking people on their opinion like on post 178
curious curious, accidental or on purpose?

GrandpaMo is not being replaced. See Mod post at the top of the page.

avoiding dorsey's question by pointing out gpa (thanks hockey that's a great nickname) is actually not being replaced. hmmm

I was also looking back through some newbie games and it looks like at least one SE is always scum

purely coincidental

[AlwaysNever]

.... Is your argument for Greeting over TL based on the fact greeting is defending themselves?

dorsey you never answered this

[AlwaysNever]

Thank God you're here

and looking at this post I can believe you're relieved cause you can focus on Hockey instead of actually answering that post lmao

[AlwaysNever]

An interesting tidbit, about 40% of Uhuh's post (until 375) is a reply to Dorsey. 44% if you count post 59. Almost half. Curious

[AlwaysNever]

That's.... weird. Was that nokill deliberate?

[AlwaysNever]

Or a very lucky Doctor that saved someone? That'd be nuts

[AlwaysNever]

That's.... weird. Was that nokill deliberate?

Lol you look like you fucked up in mafiachat and came to the thread to explain ur grief.

fwiw, mafia never no kills night 1

it gives them no advantage on doing so -- the only time it would be valid is only if they are setting up a later claim or future claim but still that is very high risk play low reward hence why mafia never goes for that play and rather no kill in later days.

That's a fair assumption
But yeah it is weird, I just want to point that out

Either way, we don't have anything to go on now, so it's like we're back at D1 again like RCE said lmao

Btw RCE, you said you have some eod things you want to discuss post flip, so is that still a thing or?

[AlwaysNever]

The eod stuff I was talking about was Dorsey's vote shift onto hockey for the pocketing comment. It felt overblown even at the time but doesnt make sense at all. The only reason hockey went down there is we let deadline make a decision for us.

Dorsey could have easily voted kennyk, a slot that they have 0 strong opinion of vs a slot that they argued to be town in the 50/50 with greeting. If you think TL was the town in the 50/50 why would you settle for an eod elim on them over a slot you are having trouble reading anyway?

Dorsey pretty much lined up with every read hockey was coming out with and said ehhhh let's elim it anyway. Sketch.

But I'd rather talk to always right now. Do you want to talk about your softs yesterday?

Yeah it's getting really hard to excuse Dorsey's plays now, for me personally, but I wanna see what they have to say first before I put them on the list of people I'm voting today

To answer your question, no softs here sir, anything you might've interpret is just that, an interpretation, nothing more

[AlwaysNever]

That's.... weird. Was that nokill deliberate?

Lol you look like you fucked up in mafiachat and came to the thread to explain ur grief.

fwiw, mafia never no kills night 1

it gives them no advantage on doing so -- the only time it would be valid is only if they are setting up a later claim or future claim but still that is very high risk play low reward hence why mafia never goes for that play and rather no kill in later days.

That's a fair assumption
But yeah it is weird, I just want to point that out

Either way, we don't have anything to go on now, so it's like we're back at D1 again like RCE said lmao

Btw RCE, you said you have some eod things you want to discuss post flip, so is that still a thing or?

ur my top town

no pocketing please

---

Kennyk's posts made me slightly better in making dew's slot into at least null-townish, but it remains to be seen still.


---

No wait, the JK could have jailed scum, my math is off completely

if JK jailed scum, wouldn't the other scum be able to do the attack anyway? or nah?

Hold off on JK outing just yet, we need to talk more about the setup. We can use it to our advantage. My first instinct is to keep jk unclaimed and they just crumb their n1 and at some point their n2. This keeps rolecop from making the kill since they need to hunt down JK.

Whoever the JK Target was can be ruled out as rolecop but can't be ruled out as scum fwiw.

exactly....
are you the rolecop by any chance?

I don't know why you were so quick to assume that could have been jk >> I feel like you could be scum for pressuring a slot to out -- ur justification is still not completely justified due to confbias.

I'm a friendly neighbor.

There was no nightkill.

The only protective with a friendly neighbor is a jailkeeper.

or tracker, if the mafia no-kill, which is still possible but it is a questionable decision if they do

[AlwaysNever]

That's.... weird. Was that nokill deliberate?

Lol you look like you fucked up in mafiachat and came to the thread to explain ur grief.

fwiw, mafia never no kills night 1

it gives them no advantage on doing so -- the only time it would be valid is only if they are setting up a later claim or future claim but still that is very high risk play low reward hence why mafia never goes for that play and rather no kill in later days.

That's a fair assumption
But yeah it is weird, I just want to point that out

Either way, we don't have anything to go on now, so it's like we're back at D1 again like RCE said lmao

Btw RCE, you said you have some eod things you want to discuss post flip, so is that still a thing or?

Weird comment, clearly we have more info than D1 re PRs.

just gonna stop writing my post and clarify this first to say that those posts are made before titus-greeting PR reveal, so I wasn't aware of them yet

[AlwaysNever]

Always - We're not at D1 again, we have a flip. Also, there's nothing to "excuse" about my play - what are your issues with it?

I've said it before in post 138. I still think the same. Because I know that these thoughts are colored by my own biases, I took the liberty of reading your previous game (2075) and of course I see that you are the same there.

If anything, most of your play have been individualistic, or at least against the flow of the game at that point, but does that make you scum? No.... maybe? On 2075, you did the same thing, going against the flow, but you correctly read who's scum, while still keeping the same tone. It makes me uneasy, cause then what would've happened if you are scum?

This uneasiness is why I said it's getting hard to excuse your play, cause considering you as town goes against my instinct, but I have to anyway, and this conflicting feeling grows ever more as the game progress. So each time you act just slightly scummy in my eyes, I would put you in my to-vote list/scumlean, even though logically you are about as town as me at this point

Basically, when it comes to you, my reads goes like this and it makes me uneasy


TL;DR I can't see you as town cause I got issues and I need to get over it

[AlwaysNever]

a brownie point for you, keeping my one eye on you still

I'll keep one eye on you at all times

If they weren't specifically tracker softs I wouldn't necessarily press the issue. I think if the JK was on Always then it's worth outing since it would be a psuedo red check. If not then don't.

As of right now I think if Dorsey flips red always is town. Walking home right now so once I get some time I'll give more thought to that.

nah yeah it was coincidence, thank you for giving me ideas to soft Tracker next time I got one though. fwiw, wasn't jailed, otherwise I would probably not post like what Uhuh pointed out since then I would know the setup at that point

as I said on my previous post, I am half tempted to agree with your last sentence, but again that nagging logic part of me still think it's T/T in context of me/dorsey

I can't post for much longer - but quick addresses.

GrandpaMo - would like to see more engagement with the game i.e understanding what is going on.

AlwaysNever - but still, especially because no deaths n1, town will in all likelihood have things to go off on once d2 gets rolling.

I guess you can chalk it up to me being inexperienced? when there's no kill in the night my first instinct is that there's no info that we get since we only have HF flip at that moment

I think you have to accept this as my playstyle. You refer to it as active lurking - I don't think so, but either way its just a playstyle. I like to rely on hard game mechanics, especially with PR info. I have a penchant for statistics: have a look at https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83092. On d1 scum is only eliminated +0.9% to random (town is lynched 4.7% less than random, the balance is no eliminations). All the other days, it's a lot more favored to eliminating scum than random. Why? Power roles and working out the mechanics. And working out how those mechanics relate to posts made on d1 - even though what is worked out on d1 might be tenuous.

Think of it like the way you or GrandpaMo play, which I find inherently suspicious (I've talked about this earlier). But I don't have a meta to compare it with, so I am hesitant to scum read it. If there are posts that relate to the developing mechanics that I can link back, then I can say that you are more likely to be town or more scum. Hence the emphasis on figuring out the mechanics in the first place.

Is this a post to answer Dorsey??? Just wanna make sure cause you never explicitly refer to them

[AlwaysNever]

if JK jailed scum, wouldn't the other scum be able to do the attack anyway? or nah?

Yes, but there would have been a successful nightkill. Scum have to pick who does the killing.

Kinda think AlwaysNever is town for not getting this.

I was half expecting someone to call me lamist for that but I am a bit confused about it, since I was used to a similar role that is mechanically quite different, so I just have to ask around and clarify

This is aimed at anyone but especially SE, cause they might be more experienced with this. So from what I can understand, what happened last night, as laid out on other posts, when JK is involved is:

JK jailed a scum, and scum unluckily picked the jailed person as the one to do the nightkill, thereby failing the attack
JK jailed a townie, and scum unluckily picked the townie as the nightkill target, thereby failing the attack

In both cases, the other scum are possibly rolecop (due to Process of Elimination on the possible setups after Titus reveal) doing their cop thingy, so mafia failed the night but potentially successful in their rolecop stuff

Is that correct, or is there a mistake in my understanding?

[AlwaysNever]

Also to Titus, Friendly Neighbor can message anyone right, even scum? So is there still a possibility that Greeting is scum and have to relent and let us know about your message, since withholding it would seem suspicious?

[AlwaysNever]

besides greeting and titus, I want everyones next post to be a readslist. please thank you.

since you asked nicely....

Titus -

Locktown

duh

Greeting -

Townlean

*
I can't say much regarding them, but if certain other players flip in the color I didn't expect, or even roles I didn't expect, Greeting are instant scumlean to me. That is all I can say

Dorsey -

Null

I have said what I've said about Dorsey, putting him on null cause I still feel conflicted. I would say though, Uhuh and them are not aligned, I was thinking that they might be aligned with one of my other null reads but so far they've successfully acted in a way that led me to believe that they have no association with anyone, if anything the closest association people might give is me and them (RCE has made note of this in day 1) or titus and them, but Titus is confirmed town.

RCE -

Null

Dropped out of the townlean for now, since they pivoted to me for reasons I still can't understand (and taking what I never considered tracking softs seriously), but he might just be misunderstanding me. Still, he's going for a low hanging fruit like Kenny doesn't sit right with me, when there's Uhuh as well but he didn't consider him?

Kennyk -

Null

His slot previously, I've considered to be safe town if not null, but reading on his own posts, I would have to put him back to null for now because I don't find it as compelling to my emotion as Dew's was, but just for now.

Gpa -

Null.

..

.?

Gpa is confusing. Is he an aggressive town scumhunting the heck out of everybody? Is he scum trying to look like he's scumhunting so that's why he's aggressive? It seems like reading on some other games that this is what he usually plays, but he can really be the one I'm voting today, if not for...

Uhuh -

Scumlean

I am scared to vote for Uhuh, if only because Dorsey's adamant refusal to let him off the hook with his distant-style posts are starting to grow on me, and I don't like it when Dorsey's words started to make sense. Kinda felt like I was being manipulated into it, but they're right. Uhuh has been coasting, even his defense of him being more interested in mechanic doesn't really sit well with me, because he doesn't talk about it that much, imo. Reading their posts feels like reading a wolf watching for a town to make a mistake and jump on their hapless back.

TL;DR
I can get behind Uhuh or Gpa's wagon today, but Uhuh is priority

VOTE: UhuhWaitAndSee

well, since I've voted, I might just ask you guys some question cause that might generate content that I'm interested in seeing. If you guys have 2 people on your to-vote list today, which of them would you think is the possible rolecop?

[AlwaysNever]

Gpa is confusing. Is he an aggressive town scumhunting the heck out of everybody? Is he scum trying to look like he's scumhunting so that's why he's aggressive? It seems like reading on some other games that this is what he usually plays, but he can really be the one I'm voting today, if not for...

what is this read.
and what is this readlist.

most of them are null reads.

I'd rather give null reads than not giving reads at all, but if you want I can give elaborations on that

488

He only said your readslist is bad, he didn't even call you dumb and stupid, what the f Dorsey. He even agreed with you about individually scumreading your pairings. This is the kind of things that makes me really wary of you. You put words in other people's posts that they didn't even write. Why are you doing this?

[AlwaysNever]

Not a fan of always never reads. Take stances.

You want me to take a stance or are you commenting that I take too many stances???

[AlwaysNever]

Are some of you guys in primary school

I don't know why this is necessary

I'm going to elaborate on most of my null reads in a very long post, hopefully I got to do it before the time is up or for the arbitrary time period of "prod range" that Dorsey mentioned.

I'm still standing by with what I read, you can call it non-read, you can sus me for it, but that's what I think

[AlwaysNever]

Gpa

rereading again his posts in d1, I actually find his posts a little bit more chill than I thought? My previous read were based on his recent posts on d2, so I think my opinion of him might've turn out to be like that because of it, or because he also kinda tried to imply that I'm maf on his first post d2. yeah it's OMGUS probably, and I still haven't been able to separate myself well enough to be completely free from that

I would've probably be behind Greeting's wagon if he lead the charge on him, but it seems like he was a bit distracted at d2 from him misunderstanding Greeting's coming out with FN message, and being misconstrued by certain someone, and also possibly from life since he does have V/LA in the middle of the day. all of which was a shame.

could he be town? sure. there are one post of him that I don't want to point out, but could be a very strong argument that he is, but there are also post of him talking about how his posts have been NAI (non alignment indicative) so far, and I don't really like that. (he answered with that for my rvs accusation at post 53 and Greeting's reads on him at post 549) if you're town, I think you wouldn't explain away other suspicion by mentioning how your act so far has been NAI, right?

with both of that hanging over my head, that's why I read him as null. He can be either to me, at this moment, but at the very least after letting go of that OMGUS feeling in my heart a bit, I can say that I won't vote him today.

RCE

the man that has been "obvtown" since d1. I won't lie, I think of him as obvtown as well as we end d1, even when he sussed me for chainsawing Gpa in the back for his dew/dorsey non-aligned shenanigans. it doesn't feel as if a wolf is pouncing on you for making a mistake, it felt like a townie using their heads to think and provide logical conclusions and thoughts. so why did I put him to null again?

oh, yeah, he started misreading my posts as softtrack and suddenly made me on his vote list today. yeah, OMGUS. I can't free myself from that phenomenon/term. and I don't like that he pivoted to kenny on d1 (when they haven't posted yet for legible reason), even if his intention is to not elim Hockey off. he also made Kenny the other person on his vote list today, even though he has claimed before that he scumread almost half of the playerlist on post post 259 (unless that opinion has changed now with replacement and all)

his reasoning to not vote Uhuh in post 524 can literally also apply to me (from what Titus, Greeting, and Gpa said about my reads previously), so he just... arbitrarily pick me and kenny?

And I say, maybe his WIM is low now, considering how he said in post 574 that he forgot about this game. that's understandable, but he also promises to do a multipost iso stuff. looking at the deadline though, he might not be able to post it, which is a shame. I would have put him in townlean if not because of all that, I hope that was understandable to any of you, or to you RCE.

Kenny

Kenny, the inheritor of Dew's slot which I thought were a bit lackluster in posting but I can totally see as VT being bored and not knowing what to do. his opening posts are his thoughts on d1, which was good. I especially like post 437 and post 438. Shade/sass that doesn't feel mean spirited, just filled with humor.

I feel like he's the better Uhuh, though. or a brainchild of Dorsey and Uhuh. He doesn't look like he's coasting, he theorized, he engaged by asking questions(post 503), he defends himself from Gpa's attempt to imply him as maf (post 509) and dorsey's accusations (post 496) in a way that is level-headed and calm, generally he's trying to be active. there's even one of his posts that looked so town in my eyes, I don't know why I just didn't put him as townlean in my previous read. I didn't really go in depth before, just skimming over the top and I must've missed the details of his posts.

yeah, he's the only one out of the null reads that I'm considering to put into my townlean now, while also considering his previous player who occupied his slot.

[AlwaysNever]

I just wanted to know why so many mistakes were being made. And if they were intentional.

Imagine that, what's the name of this game you're in again?

[AlwaysNever]

seriously, if anything, I don't mind jumping on to Dorsey so we can policy eliminate them at this point. better that than noelim.

[AlwaysNever]

VOTE: Greeting

will post why after my class is over, but I've said on my reads that a certain flip of certain players would made me instantly scumlean him, and that Dorsey JK flip was one of those.

[AlwaysNever]

Hmm leaning kennyk

VOTE: Greeting

will post why after my class is over, but I've said on my reads that a certain flip of certain players would made me instantly scumlean him, and that Dorsey JK flip was one of those.

If I take a look at what happened with a neutral view, those are the two names that would come to my mind. Let me explain you why:
UhUh voted exactly once on day 1 an 2. On D1 the vote was on my slot and on D2 it was on Dorsey. Each time is was an early vote that was never changed. But what is most interesting about the voting is, UhUh was not on the train that eliminated TL/Hockey on D1. So one confirmed scum wasn't on it. I know it is not impossible, but how big are the chances, that no scum was on that train? I guess that those chances are low.

So who was on that train when the hammer fell? The votecount says kennyk, Greeting, GrandpaMo, Dorsey, RCEnigma. With Dorsey that leaves four possible suspects.

At the time Dorsey claimed, there were three votes on them: Greeting, UhUhWaitAndSee, kennyk. With UhUh now being confscum that leaves two votes that coincidently were on the Hockey-train as well: me and Greeting. The question is of mafia went on this train with all might to stop an UhUh elim or not. If so, it are those two names.

And as I know my role, for me this just leaves Greeting. So I would really like to go with him as I had him on my scumlean list yesterday. If you all agree to elim me first it is OK with me as long as you elim him tomorrow.

VOTE: Greeting

btw just wanna point out, it's kinda unfair to bring d1 wagon at this point cause your slot was kind of empty going to the end of d1, and so we have no info on how your slot going to vote on that wagon.

In the end though, the game I guess is kinda solved, no matter the order we go through. Dorsey is right, once again. Is there a way to end it quicker, like endgame it? In a FM game in another forum, they can end it by voting up an endgame plan, I assume that those rule can't be done here?

[AlwaysNever]

also I'm kinda curious who Dorsey jailed last night, and was about to ask the one on their wagon if they're blocked, then I read Titus's post from Page 1 and realized that roleblock are silent. took me a month to find out, yikes.

[AlwaysNever]

well damn, I forgot, the day started during midnight time for me. let me just say this though.

I can't help but disagree that no elim would be better here, cause that just means that I'm going to leave the game on scum's tempo. I don't want that, so I'm just going to vote who I believe is scum today. I implore that the rest of you should as well, and possibly talk about who is scum here instead of letting the last scum take the initiative.

[AlwaysNever]

also its just the most optimal mechancial play ^

can you elaborate on why it is the most optimal? doesn't letting it no elim just makes the next day E-Lo and it became the game of "who can you pocket better"?

[AlwaysNever]

ok i think as just much as i want to condemn kennyk here, i think the best option for us is to always nc here, since we are in a world of evens.

especially in this playerlist, where no one is dead -- the mafia kill does actually give us info.

VOTE: Sleep

also its just the most optimal mechancial play ^

I like those posts. I thought that after Greetings flipped green I had handed over the whole game to scum with my theory. I was sure I was going to be quickly eliminated today. And that would have gotten us into a 2-1 night, 1-1 day --> game over for town.

I really thought tha Greetings could have been the one. But what really strikes me as odd is the fact, that that wagon got through so fast. No one doubted my theory of both mafia being on the Dorsey train. This doesn't feel good. So I had my doubts about Grandpa and RCE as they followed me more or less blindly and very fast. And both were on the train that hammered Hockey D1. As stated I think it is highly unlikely, that no scum was on that one. But on the other hand it is also possible, that if UhUh and Always were the scum team (both newbies) they tried to avoid just that.

I am begining to feel really paranoid.
Vote for Grandpa who hammered? But he made the posts above. But what if he wanted to pocket someone with them? But then again, why would he need to? He could have just voted me as I put myself in the spotlight D3.
Vote RCE for hopping on my train so fast? But what if Always played it really slow?

I really can't make up my mind right now.

VOTE: no elimination

I am always forgetting something.
I wanted to point out the fact, that strategically a no elim is giving town better chances than more or less randomly voting someone off. So that is a big part of my vote, too.

to be honest with you, I didn't regard your theory so much because I have my own theory on Greeting, but I see now that I was mistaking bad reads as being scummy, and I kinda felt bad about it.

to elaborate, I also agree with you right now about not making up my damn mind right now, but that doesn't mean we should no elim immediately. no elim meant we're handing the initiative to scum to decide which of the three they want for the last day, and I don't feel good about that. It'd give us only a flip info, and then nothing else. I'd rather that we no elim because we ran out of time instead of voting to no elim, because at least with that, we can have posts that we could bring to the last day as argument and theory on who should we vote.

voting no elim would just give us less than that, and just allow scum to hide in past posts as proof that they're not scum.

[AlwaysNever]

I'm getting worried that RCE has been losing his WIM because he's the last solo scum, but I don't want to vote him just because he has low volume recently.

Also for kenny, yeah I was thinking that it might be either Gpa or RCE, the last two people on the Greeting wagons, I don't think you might be the last scum, but I'm also still paranoid that you might be the last one. We both are paranoid on each other, which meant we can also both be T

I'm still waiting on RCE rn, and also Gpa, to see if they have thoughts over what I say. If they're not posting soon, I'm gonna lose my mind

[AlwaysNever]

In fact, I think RCE's posts lacks a certain punch after night 1, like... he was totally affected by the lucky nightblock by Dorsey

[AlwaysNever]

Consequently, Gpa's first post after night 1 was talking about how my post looked like scum ranting on their chat and coming to the thread to explain their grief, which I could see as him trying to project his own feelings on the night result on my own post

[AlwaysNever]

also its just the most optimal mechancial play ^

can you elaborate on why it is the most optimal? doesn't letting it no elim just makes the next day E-Lo and it became the game of "who can you pocket better"?

I know I am answering for Grandpa here (he's too old to answer for himself ), but let's just have a look at the numbers:

We are E-Lo right now. We are 4 still alive with 1 scum, so it is 3-1. If we miselim, the night starts with 2-1 and ends with 1-1. No elim possible tomorrow and mafia wins.

If we no-elim today and scum kills tonight we are at 2-1 tomorrow. If we miselim than, it is also game over for town.

So from the point of every town player we today have a 33 % chance to hit the right target (as 2 of the other 3 players are town and would be miselim and one is the jackpot). By no-elim today and a nightkill the remaining two townies have a 50 % chance to hit the right one (math should be obvious).

Admittedly this is just the number crunshing if we had no further info from the game so far. But the feelings we get from other players have to be better than the 50 % in said mechanical play. I on my part don't have those feelings right now. So I am willing to do the gamble now.

I know there is the possibility, that scum thinks "Why should I make towns chances better?" after a no-elim today and that results in a no-kill next night leaving us where we are right now.

Concerning this scenario:

@mod:

Is a "... and they lived happily ever after"-scenario possible? I couldn't find anything in your rules that forbids a draw.

also yeah I forgot to reply on this, but thanks for explaining it to me. looking at this, I can see why we should no-elim, but I still stand on what I say about us talking the whole deadline instead of immediately no-elimming. the more time we spent talking, the more evidences we can bring to the last day, and the more chances that a scum slipped and reveal themselves, which I think would be beneficial to town, but maybe not beneficial to the mod's time sorry mod

[AlwaysNever]

and lastly, Kenny, because you replaced in late into day 1 and practically has no posts in that day, I have to contend with your first few posts in d2 being a reaction compilation of what happened day 1, which scum could easily do to hide their own thoughts about scum's disappointing night 1, but I admit that was the stretchiest theory of them all

[AlwaysNever]

ugh god I have to take a stance, it's my bad habit in these games, fencesitting. I'd say I vote the one that I think is scum, and based on the analysis I did just now...

VOTE: RCEnigma

[AlwaysNever]

fuck fuck fuck i just realized kenny fucking scumslipped LOL

if gpa is on and about to post here, I want you to explain what this means too, cause I can't get an angle on kenny and it's worrying me at this point

[AlwaysNever]

If I had to vote someone right now I would tend to lean to vote RCE, too.

I just briefly had the thought that it couldn't be RCE. His profile says "Last visited: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:23 pm" which was after this thread was closed (3:38 pm) but well before the actual flip (6:19 pm) and the PM that night 3 started shortly after that. So he wasn't logged in since the night started and so he couldn't have PMed our mod about the nightkill of Titus. But he could have PMed Micc about his night choice before the official start of the night. The choice (Titus) was nothing to really think about as NKing the only confirmed townie left is quite obvious.

hmmm I don't know, I tend not to look at whether people are online or not at a certain time to determine if they're scum. In games I previously played, it was even strictly forbidden to bring this to consideration cause it would be considered as angleshooting, idk if this constitute as one here as well but I'm just gonna play it safe

[AlwaysNever]

fuck fuck fuck i just realized kenny fucking scumslipped LOL

if gpa is on and about to post here, I want you to explain what this means too, cause I can't get an angle on kenny and it's worrying me at this point

and also I just realized that he said that and then decided to vote no elim today instead cause it was the most "optimal" play?

what

[AlwaysNever]

also its just the most optimal mechancial play ^

can you elaborate on why it is the most optimal? doesn't letting it no elim just makes the next day E-Lo and it became the game of "who can you pocket better"?

I know I am answering for Grandpa here (he's too old to answer for himself ), but let's just have a look at the numbers:

We are E-Lo right now. We are 4 still alive with 1 scum, so it is 3-1. If we miselim, the night starts with 2-1 and ends with 1-1. No elim possible tomorrow and mafia wins.

If we no-elim today and scum kills tonight we are at 2-1 tomorrow. If we miselim than, it is also game over for town.

So from the point of every town player we today have a 33 % chance to hit the right target (as 2 of the other 3 players are town and would be miselim and one is the jackpot). By no-elim today and a nightkill the remaining two townies have a 50 % chance to hit the right one (math should be obvious).

Admittedly this is just the number crunshing if we had no further info from the game so far. But the feelings we get from other players have to be better than the 50 % in said mechanical play. I on my part don't have those feelings right now. So I am willing to do the gamble now.

I know there is the possibility, that scum thinks "Why should I make towns chances better?" after a no-elim today and that results in a no-kill next night leaving us where we are right now.

Concerning this scenario:

@mod:

Is a "... and they lived happily ever after"-scenario possible? I couldn't find anything in your rules that forbids a draw.

Yes this is correct. However, let me elaborate more.

Yes we will be playing on scum's tempo, but that's the norm for final 4's.

There is no tempo to play unless to grant more time now.

Letting scum play the night is more strategic for town to concur. This is because we can analyze why scum killed during the night.

It is more of WIFOM stiution yes. It's kinda hypocritical for AlwaysNever to say we shouldn't be voting right now, but us sleeping gives us more time now in this day + f3. And if we are wrong about the vote in a f4, we auto lose compared to f3. That's why we always mechanically vote for no one here.

I initially also towered you @AlwaysNever. I was the first to come out and say you were town and RCEnigma rebuked that.

No, see, I don't mind no elimming today, I just don't want to do it right this second, I'd rather let the timer run out while we discuss rather than immediately voting to no elim, I can't see why voting no elim right now would give us more time, please enlighten me on that

[AlwaysNever]

I implore that the rest of you should as well, and possibly talk about who is scum here instead of letting the last scum take the initiative.

That is literally the point of the no lim, it is to let people talk and give their stances then go to sleep. Mafia kills >> we look back on why they killed that person...

Don't get convoluted, because if you wrong, we town lose.

Scum is more likely to push someone this day to get a easy misaim instead of holding another day of discussion.

with this logic, I think we should wait on RCE to give his stance before deciding to no elim then, right?

[AlwaysNever]

Want to apologize for the poor etiquette day 3, we should have used that time more efficiently with Titus still alive and speed elimming is a bad habit to give newbies.

That said I don't want to get fancy and wifom myself out of kennyk as scum 2.

I have like a small amount of paranoia about grandpamo but it's literally only "was he tmi'ing when he challenged me suspecting alwaysnever by saying he's always town here". Because there is the possibility he knows always' alignment.

More signs just point to kennyk as the last scum though. Grandpa already pointed out kennyk waiting for a second vote, I'd agree. Scum isn't in the position to make a move themselves and need town to make it for them.

Also no elim is always the right play here.

I really thought tha Greetings could have been the one. But what really strikes me as odd is the fact, that that wagon got through so fast. No one doubted my theory of both mafia being on the Dorsey train. This doesn't feel good. So I had my doubts about Grandpa and RCE as they followed me more or less blindly and very fast. And both were on the train that hammered Hockey D1. As stated I think it is highly unlikely, that no scum was on that one. But on the other hand it is also possible, that if UhUh and Always were the scum team (both newbies) they tried to avoid just that.

Greeting didn't go down because of any case you had on them. Their association/votes already looked bad, the competing wagons day 1 looked bad for them, etc. It was either you or them and the order it happened in was mostly insignificant, it would have been a shorter game had we hit scum first instead of after but that's all.

Okay, RCE's here, apparently not reading my vote. Okay then.

UNVOTE: RCEnigma

no. you were pushing for a narrative that you wanted to lim someone. you initially disagreed with my statement then said we shouldn't no lim at this second. I thought anyone with logic -- would not hammer. I always vote no matter what so I hoped that no body would have hammered the no sleep because that's what we usually do ... 1 or 2 votes on the no sleep then talk it out.

I am not pushing to lim someone, I said you guys should vote for whoever you think was scum. At that point I wasn't sure that the optimal play was to no elim, and after reading what Kenny said, I agree that we shouldn't. But then I still feel like we shouldn't vote to no elim right now, that's why I decided to vote who I think was scum. I didn't say I want to lim someone, I was just taking a stance, don't misconstrue my words

If you prefered to just let the day run out (which is OK as far as I can see), why is your vote still on RCE?

would you rather that I vote you instead?
also I was waiting for RCE to respond in thread to my vote, but he didn't even notice it so....

If I had to vote someone right now I would tend to lean to vote RCE, too.

I just briefly had the thought that it couldn't be RCE. His profile says "Last visited: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:23 pm" which was after this thread was closed (3:38 pm) but well before the actual flip (6:19 pm) and the PM that night 3 started shortly after that. So he wasn't logged in since the night started and so he couldn't have PMed our mod about the nightkill of Titus. But he could have PMed Micc about his night choice before the official start of the night. The choice (Titus) was nothing to really think about as NKing the only confirmed townie left is quite obvious.

Holy fuck, please stop.

This is not how you play mafia.

There is 1000 multiple choices of what could have happened during the game, let's not play the game like that because 1st: It's just bad. 2nd: 98% it's not correct. (Flashback to a game where I was scum and offline through all the night and still made a choice).

Some people also toggle on invisible. It's just many factors; and not a reliable tool of measure; it's also shitty and OGI at times which goes against the rules.

This is coming from the same person who kept making up this possibility where Mafia no killed.

I am not suprised, you would make this analyze.

I want to punish ALwaysNever for pushing a vote, which scum usually does push vote to get the game over with or is it Kennyk again pushing wild narratives. I mean you have said you wanted to push RC but haven't voted for them because you are probably waiting for me to vote so you could just hammer.

If you look back a few posts you could see I voted for no elim, too, because it is the best strategy we have. I unvoted so scum couldn't hammer the no elim and end the discussion early.

And I also said that i would vote RCE if I had to vote someone. But I don't ned to vote someone so I don't vote him. This is because a) there is a superior strategy (no elim today) and b) it could also be you waiting for me to vote RCE and you just hammering.

are you just mirroring what Gpa had to say?

[AlwaysNever]

okay, risking the chance that Gpa would label this post as me deflecting on that "me pushing to lim someone today" narrative, should we start talking about possible f3 situation? for me personally;

if Gpa is dead tonight, then it's RCE-Kenny-me left, and both Kenny and me are leaning RCE (might change cause I think a shrew)
if RCE is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-Kenny-me, and Gpa is gutreading kenny. At this point I would also believe in Gpa and vote kenny tbh
if Kenny is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-RCE-me, and I'm going to vote RCE then
if I'm dead tonight, it's Kenny-RCE-Gpa, and both of you have decided to vote Kenny (I think? cmiiw)

[AlwaysNever]

okay, risking the chance that Gpa would label this post as me deflecting on that "me pushing to lim someone today" narrative, should we start talking about possible f3 situation? for me personally;

if Gpa is dead tonight, then it's RCE-Kenny-me left, and both Kenny and me are leaning RCE (might change cause I still have doubts)
if RCE is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-Kenny-me, and Gpa is gutreading kenny. At this point I would also believe in Gpa and vote kenny tbh
if Kenny is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-RCE-me, and I'm going to vote RCE then
if I'm dead tonight, it's Kenny-RCE-Gpa, and both of you have decided to vote Kenny (I think? cmiiw)

Ebwop, is that the right term?

[AlwaysNever]

okay, risking the chance that Gpa would label this post as me deflecting on that "me pushing to lim someone today" narrative, should we start talking about possible f3 situation? for me personally;

if Gpa is dead tonight, then it's RCE-Kenny-me left, and both Kenny and me are leaning RCE (might change cause I think a shrew)
if RCE is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-Kenny-me, and Gpa is gutreading kenny. At this point I would also believe in Gpa and vote kenny tbh
if Kenny is dead tonight, then it's Gpa-RCE-me, and I'm going to vote RCE then
if I'm dead tonight, it's Kenny-RCE-Gpa, and both of you have decided to vote Kenny (I think? cmiiw)

And this gives scum the script for who is best to kill tonight:
If it is Grandpa: kill whoever you like, either RCE or I am likely to be elimed.
If it is RCE: kill Always and I am elimed.
If it is me: kill Grandpa and RCE is elimed.
If it is Always: kill whoever you like, either RCE or I am likely to be elimed.

But as everyone knows this now, are we all going to stick to the predicted votes?

Curious that your first instinct is to think what scum would do, it's like... you are one

[AlwaysNever]

Okay, judging from the posts from you both, I can formulate that if Kenny survive to the next day, he will be voted out immediately by the one that is left (me and either one of you), and if Kenny is dead tomorrow, you both will vote me. Is that correct for me to assume?

[AlwaysNever]

Okay, judging from the posts from you both, I can formulate that if Kenny survive to the next day, he will be voted out immediately by the one that is left (me and either one of you,

or just both of you

), and if Kenny is dead tomorrow, you both will vote me. Is that correct for me to assume?

EBWOP, it's still possible that I'm dead tomorrow

[AlwaysNever]

Okay, judging from the posts from you both, I can formulate that if Kenny survive to the next day, he will be voted out immediately by the one that is left (me and either one of you), and if Kenny is dead tomorrow, you both will vote me. Is that correct for me to assume?

huh?

kenny's death will determine the game. it will be f3 tmr. tmr is the last choice

no what I meant with the second statement was if Kenny was nightkilled, you both will vote me out instead, right?
and of course what I meant by Kenny surviving is if he wasn't nightkilled

[AlwaysNever]

if kenny is nightkilled then town probably just loses the game.

why would town lose? sorry if I've been asking questions that might have obvious answers but I'm not exactly the experienced player here so I wanna ask for future considerations and building up the right mindset in future games

[AlwaysNever]

oof man I was supposed to die n1? XD

also my reads in post 542 was surprisingly accurate, in a way. man, that was a bummer. I should've probably stick my ground on it but later on I did get more sus of RCE instead

what a great game by Gpa though. can't really tell if he's scum or not even right before I die. looking forward to play with any of you in this forum!