Micro 1029: 8-Ball (but with Wolves) Game Over

[the worst]

VOTE: imaginality

bork bork, friends

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pagetop

pedit: aw

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i have a sudden, strong feeling that scum are going to win this game

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ahh man just a feeling, you know?

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I think Wisdom is scum and Momrangal is the 8 ball. wbu?

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I had a very weak thought of

Mom

-8ball but everybody in the thread posted between my vote on her and my post a few moments ago. Nobody seemed to want the wagon.

If you think

Wisdom

is scum, why not join

Imaginality

?

because, I can...

VOTE: Taly

VOTE: Taly

.... SHEEP HIRAKI INSTEAD
epic twist, ultimate betrayal

[the worst]

Taly/Wisdom scumteam, game solved on pg 2.

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I actually think my drunk self was right and taly might be mafia for real.

[the worst]

it would disrupt our friendship dynamic

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join team hiraki now for a free win!

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@Taly I'm not really sure there's a way I can deepen our convo in a way that would help me sort u rn.

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I'm reading both worst/Taly and Taly/Wis as not S/S. I think Hiraki and Taly are individually towny, although not strongly.

It occurs to me that I forgot to ask STD which method he's using to make deadlines a thing in this game, and I should probably do so.

my more earnest read is 0-1 in taly/hiraki

i do think taly is doing his thing where he thinks things he's saying look more towny + helpful than they are and while it's not suuuper scum indicative for him it's also not town indicative!! where's your weak townread coming from?

[the worst]

<3

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i think that post is kinda too peacocky for me to townread it. i was joking about scum!wisdom vs. town!momrangal because wisdom put the vote down then went v/la. that's, like, an extremely one-dimensional thought about wisdom, who is super experienced, and a vote which is realistically pretty hard to parse for AI information 25 posts into the game.

taly's response to this posits that he agrees with the one-dimensional read and then asks why i'm not sheeping imaginality (who is voting wisdom for a separate meme reason). i think that's a post which taly /expects/ to look good. but the fact is he's focused on optical things like looking like he's checking slots' motivations against each other -- while overlooking things like me not voting wisdom, and the fact that my whole take on wisdom/momrangal was pretty goofy -- makes me feel like he isn't actually trying to see inside my mind.

[the worst]

VOTE: ali

Spoiler:

(sorry i didn't look for a better pic)

[the worst]

wisdom is right, we should eliminate the most charismatic players systematically to avoid the 8-ball at all costs

i'm going to be proceeding assuming taly is town for the moment (this is unrelated)

[the worst]

i'm feelin very red m&m today, mm

[the worst]

happy scumday wisdom

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Spoiler: mfw i'm townreading alisae

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In other news, Taly's recent posts make me lean town on him, seems like genuine reasoning/questions and the miscount of the votes on him seems more likely to come from two than scum. Also #78 where he raises the possibility he's scum rather than 8-ball.

@hiraki for the next post.

I think I'm never the 8ball here, everyone but Imaginality knows me and doubt they think I'm limmable

Taly has decent chances of being it

Am I likelier the 8ball than I am wagoned-scum?

Are the two worlds mutually exlusive? (Could I be scum and 8ball)?

i kind of feel similar to imaginality. might need to indulge me for a sec because this is from the deepest depths of my warped mind.

it's kind of like, ancient wisdom that "elim-bait can also roll scum", right. but it's also a very easily position to fall back to that limbait are not worth pushing because it's too easy, and them doing weakly scum indicative things isn't actually scum indicative.

here taly is positing that he himself has high 8-ball equity, but that doesn't necessarily make him town. i think that's something town do slightly more than random, BUT is also something taly would say as scum. but i think the fact that he's done it in a way that feels genuinely curious about wisdom's motivation without taking the time out to dwell on what it actually means for himself is probably slightly

more

indicative of a pure mindset.

[the worst]

Spoiler: mfw i'm townreading alisae

VOTE: ali

Spoiler:

(sorry i didn't look for a better pic)

You are feeling very red m&m, aren’t you? Are you being a cheeky worst?

:3

[the worst]

For context, I have hydra'd with Ali as both alignments and have played with them solo when they've been both alignments. So they're right up there with the worst in terms of my familiarity in mafia.

oh ahh oh no!!

[the worst]

I think Wisdom is scum and Momrangal is the 8 ball. wbu?

I had a very weak thought of

Mom

-8ball but everybody in the thread posted between my vote on her and my post a few moments ago. Nobody seemed to want the wagon.

If you think

Wisdom

is scum, why not join

Imaginality

?

Hmmm...

I think I prefer Taly or duckie here.

Duckie moreso, their post on you v me was a joke seems like a weird backtrack

i kind of wonder if you having missed the joke is alignment indicative, but i'll get more out of seeing how this read develops

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Even so, his motivation is right there in that post
He thought scum might join the wagon

Right out of RVS?

yeah!! always wagon limbait (or like, this list doesn't really have limbait, so wagon people you think have decent 8ball equity) early. if they slip utr until later in early phases you're more likely to get a scrambly wagon onto them which is much less insightful!

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don't worry taly, i'm scum in this game.

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oops i mean town!! what a fascinating typo. such a silly typo, i'm so silly.

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I'm not really following the above but it seems like you're saying something smart but it's just not clicking for me. Can you go a little more bite-sized?

that was my response to this

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The reason I point this out is because I read the bolded as though you knew I was 8ball. A potential slip. That's what I want clarified.

No, you misread. Imaginality was talking about the possibility of you being scum and 8ball, and that's what I was responding to

Just gonna cut this off at the knees: That was 100% not a scum slip. When discussing the hypothetical that you are the eightball, the presumption that you would flip 8 ball is natural.

Hopefully we don't have a week long argument about whether the obviously NAI post is a scumslip every game I'm scum in.

now

this

is a scumslip

[the worst]

i desered that.

enjoy the swim ali!

[the worst]

The reason I point this out is because I read the bolded as though you knew I was 8ball. A potential slip. That's what I want clarified.

No, you misread. Imaginality was talking about the possibility of you being scum and 8ball, and that's what I was responding to

Just gonna cut this off at the knees: That was 100% not a scum slip. When discussing the hypothetical that you are the eightball, the presumption that you would flip 8 ball is natural.

Hopefully we don't have a week long argument about whether the obviously NAI post is a scumslip every game I'm scum in.

now

this

is a scumslip

But like, it reads like a potential slip to me too. Djdoxjsklsjshs

i'd be interested in you expanding, i've had growing concerns about bingle.

[the worst]

SCRAMBLE TIME

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i think if i rolled scum with momrangal in this plist i'd encourage us to make mom the 8ball just for the 'venge'kill to counter swing
not because i think mom is bad. i just think mom is a slow burn player, and is unlikely to get a strong footing in d1 in this player list.

idrk how meaningful this is just sayin

[the worst]

The reason I point this out is because I read the bolded as though you knew I was 8ball. A potential slip. That's what I want clarified.

No, you misread. Imaginality was talking about the possibility of you being scum and 8ball, and that's what I was responding to

Just gonna cut this off at the knees: That was 100% not a scum slip. When discussing the hypothetical that you are the eightball, the presumption that you would flip 8 ball is natural.

Hopefully we don't have a week long argument about whether the obviously NAI post is a scumslip every game I'm scum in.

now

this

is a scumslip

But like, it reads like a potential slip to me too. Djdoxjsklsjshs

i'd be interested in you expanding, i've had growing concerns about bingle.

Just the

"every game I'm scum in"

sounds like an admission since it seemed

Bingle

presumed that the

Wisdom

post was a red herring. Why would the first part of that sentence be true but the next be false?

Like, I can't be misreading again can I?

And why hold off on those concerns ducky, you waiting for me to be your shield?

i'm wondering why you're making up opinions. lol.

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i think if i rolled scum with momrangal in this plist i'd encourage us to make mom the 8ball just for the 'venge'kill to counter swing
not because i think mom is bad. i just think mom is a slow burn player, and is unlikely to get a strong footing in d1 in this player list.

idrk how meaningful this is just sayin

Well now ur more suspect because u knew that information and me/tw didn’t

Well now ur more suspect because u knew that information and me/tw didn’t

Actually... unpack this for me?

The scum role PM is public, and it's me. Why would

me

knowing setup stuff be scum indicative at all? And haven't you played this setup before?

Wasn't Alisae replying to the worst, not you?
Although the point still applies, I don't see why #199 is suspicious.

i am tw !!

[the worst]

Hopefully we don't have a week long argument about whether the obviously NAI post is a scumslip every game I play.

Omfg you're right. Apologies. Fucking duck.

IT'S LATE. I'M GOING TO BED.

GOTTEM

reaction to being epically pranked was kinda towny though smh

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if i had one bullet and wisdom and imaginality rn i think i'd shoot wisdom

except i'd cry if it was a miselim

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i've missed wisdom but like, he's scary as scum and i don't see the imaginality stuff at all

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hai pals

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reaction to being epically pranked was kinda towny though smh

Mine or Taly's? I'm not gonna lie, Taly not realizing that was a joke post kinda threw me for a loop and I'm not sure what to think about it.

I now think Mom and Wisdom are town. what reality are we win smh.

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I think im currently making the 2nd or 3rd best vote, will be around a bunch before end of day. Someone talk me off this ledge.

Ali low 8ball equity unless y'all think e is jestering (I don't; Ali is just innately funny)

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because i want someone else to do it first so i can sheep them and pretend it was my idea all along

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VOTE: imaginality

hiraki and bingle fascinate me

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can't put my finger on it

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it's like I'm magically reading you both the same way and it's not something I can totally qualify

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VOTE: Alisae

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I left school for a reason Taly!!

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VOTE: Wisdom + bingle

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Mom's talymaginality solve is towny

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I'm sad about the replace outs because I miss playing with Ali and Hiraki but it's nice to see you House.

[the worst]

Mom's talymaginality solve is towny

Didn't seem so on a skim.

I'll review it later.

In the spur of the moment I didn't believe in it but could totally see why someone would

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oh snap it's my fav bat. this playerlist remains fabulous.

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you know in a weird way, i'd be surprised if house was actually the 8-ball. i threw the vote down at the start of the day because i was weakly surprised ali wouldn't have just been hammered if town. but nobody really bit onto the wagon very hard, and it just like, fizzled out.

highest probability 8-balls fmpov are probably imaginality (doubly so if imaginality is scum), maybe momrangal. i'm weakly paranoid that i'm a decent 8-ball target here, but i'm not sure if that's compelling. it is possible to eliminate me, but i'm really cute, so it's kind of annoying.

[the worst]

highest probability 8-balls fmpov are probably imaginality (doubly so if imaginality is scum), maybe momrangal. i'm weakly paranoid that i'm a decent 8-ball target here, but i'm not sure if that's compelling. it is possible to eliminate me, but i'm really cute, so it's kind of annoying.

Highest probability 8 balls are people under no suspicion D1 and person no one is pushing D2. Also I own the Golden Gate Bridge and would like to sell it to you.

omg you do??? how much do you want, i have $3.70 in my pocket and i can probably scrounge together a couple more bucks.

[the worst]

i actually forgot to vote quick night but thank you all for the reminder

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I don't think wisdom being the leading wagon is something that's like, particularly easy for scum to foresee.

highest probability 8-balls fmpov are probably imaginality (doubly so if imaginality is scum), maybe momrangal. i'm weakly paranoid that i'm a decent 8-ball target here, but i'm not sure if that's compelling. it is possible to eliminate me, but i'm really cute, so it's kind of annoying.

Highest probability 8 balls are people under no suspicion D1 and person no one is pushing D2. Also I own the Golden Gate Bridge and would like to sell it to you.

omg you do??? how much do you want, i have $3.70 in my pocket and i can probably scrounge together a couple more bucks.

Smuggle me into your country for a visit and we’ll call it even

You've got yourself a deal.

[the worst]

why doesn't anyone want me in their pocket?

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why doesn't anyone want me in their pocket?

Because you’re scum and also you just want to eat the bread in there.

correct on exactly one count, but i won't say which one.
(it's the bread)

[the worst]

But I also wonder why Bingle feels compelled to defend Wisdom.

i feel like bingle is
- missing a vibe read
- working on a consistent trajectory

he feels forced

[the worst]

VOTE: bingle

[the worst]

i've always found wisdom super easy to get along with but he also has like, an enigmatic vibe as well, you know?

[the worst]

But I also wonder why Bingle feels compelled to defend Wisdom.

i feel like bingle is
- missing a vibe read
- working on a consistent trajectory

he feels forced

Lol. Pull the other one. When have I ever been a tonal read? Better, what fucking trajectory? I’ve been treading water the entire game trying to get reads and the whole reason I cottoned on to you is because you have been actively working against that.

this isn't a tonal read lol

[the worst]

sleep well!

[the worst]

But I also wonder why Bingle feels compelled to defend Wisdom.

i feel like bingle is
- missing a vibe read
- working on a consistent trajectory

he feels forced

Lol. Pull the other one. When have I ever been a tonal read? Better, what fucking trajectory? I’ve been treading water the entire game trying to get reads and the whole reason I cottoned on to you is because you have been actively working against that.

this isn't a tonal read lol

“Bingle has a missing vibe.” Ducky, 2021
“Bingle isn’t a tonal read.” Also ducky, 2021.

I note you completely ignored the other lie I called you out on.

missed a vibe while reading, not missing a vibe in your posting

what did you call me out on?

[the worst]

i don't really need to engage with scum lol
VOTE: bingle

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i'd contest that bingle is like, very clearly driving an agenda-driven lim. i had a busy week and spent my time finding scum, rather than answering questions which didn't interest me much. not sorry.

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all i'm gonna say is when u elim me and scum get another kill, remember.

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wait. that would be endgame.

yes. i strongly suspect i am the 8-ball.

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actually realistically regardless of bingle's alignment, the 8-ball is probably one of bingle or myself (whichever one scum thinks is more likely to lose a 1v1 which admittedly might just be bingle)

pedit: concede that

[the worst]

i remember ending the day thinking and mom and taly were kinda towny
i think i liked imaginality?
probably going to start by looking for 2 in MT, House, Bingle.

VOTE: House as a starting point.

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honestly still just think bingle is scum and i'd rather a scum flip and staying in stressful ELo than elim someone kinda meh
i'll do some more reading when i'm not at work

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I was curious why you feel his push on you is transparently agenda-driven and if the 8-ball played into that

because i think the 8-ball is likely whichever of us scum thinks will lose a 1v1 and i've been low energy enough this game that i think bingle thinks he's likely to win a 1v1 ergo

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Hot take I think both scum are on this page

if this is an admission i'm so relieved

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Vote Count 2.6

5 Wisdom (House, Taly, imaginality, Morning Tweet, Bingle)
2 Bingle (Wisdom, the worst)

Not voting: Momrangal

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to yeet

Flip incoming...

just like, going to state the obvious, it's extremely likely both scum are on the main wagon.

[the worst]

Wisdom was comparatively the overwhelming favourite yesterday. I don't think you put both scum on that wagon, there'd have been no need.

Additionally..... every player except Mom voted for Wisdom, anyway. You can't see worst's vote in 721 but worst had Wisdom as scum and helped the wagon along.

Also, of course, if Mom is scum, they didn't even play D2 anyway. If Mom is scum, they're gonna be scum with someone who was on wagon at some point (since that's everyone)

That final VC is deceptive at hiding exactly worstie and Mom

right?
vca in this setup is kind of a wild ride.

[the worst]

given there *was* a late cw i'm not sure i don't agree that scum didn't need to get involved to finish off the lim

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i might need to rethink imaginality. don't really think ali was like, playing eir scumgame in a vacuum, but i'm surprised their lim didn't go thru d1. that's something i want to check out,.

[the worst]

VOTE: imaginality
not sold on this either but like, spiritual representation of where my soul is floating

[the worst]

i'm not really interested in 1v1ing u, i think this is your towngame (and more importantly, i don't think there are any deathtunnelled townies who i can use to destroy you)

[the worst]

i'm gonna decide what the theme music for the 1v1 we're not having is and return though

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i'm gonna decide what the theme music for the 1v1 we're not having is and return though

i think the best thing i can settle on is this because the title really capitalises on the fact only one of us is feelin the 1v1 u know?

Spoiler:

[the worst]

VOTE: imaginality

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i kind of feel like imaginality is posting from a position of watching bingle and i interact as tvt and it's givin me goosebumps. look i know when i look bad and don't really deserve to be buddied and he's both-siding bingle and i in a way that i think is kind of counter-intuitive because bingle is bleeding town atm.

[the worst]

i think the way i'm going to split this game in my mind is this: if bingle is town, he's absolutely the 8-ball. if bingle is scum, he's maybe the 8-ball, but given wisdom was the 8-ball last phase i kind of have a feeling scum are greedy this game and will probably go for the win while it's sitting there ready to be taken.

[the worst]

so if bingle/me is tvt scum win by falling on the losing side of this, and either {winning instantly, capitalising on the lost 1v1 tomorrow}. i'm a lot more concerned about people who are coasting & both-siding this fight than people who are actively trying to work this out.

i genuinely think bingle thinks he's caught a scumduck and i genuinely think MT's contributions make absolutely no sense from scum if my gamestate intuitions are even close to correct.

i'm looking at {imaginality, ss, house} for a solve and i weakly lean away from this being ali's scumgame as well.

[the worst]

Bugle can be scum only really in a world where he felt like he could get away with abandoning a stronger scumread on me to drive thru an elim on town 8ball wisdom and then during the night phase just went "hot damn I'm good, I can get away with anything, let's 8ball worstie and I'll just drill the duck into the ground tomorrow" and then he just.... Came and did that at the expense of trying to improve his optics (his solve is half baked after he pivoted to wisdom for no real reason d2) or anything at all and, like

Bingle has big energy don't get me wrong
I don't think he's channelling ENOUGH energy to be that guy in this game

[the worst]

Friendly reminder that I kinda just vibed and lurked while Bingle pushed me so I'm hard pressed to think he thinks it looks good. If the mood is that Bungle vs. duck is the main event and that you don't really buy my read (or just can't believe I'm scum), please consider one simple truth:

- Scum are playing hard in this game, and will be gambling on winning through this 1v1.
- if you think one of bungle and I are scum, find our partner, or face that there's a decent chance of hitting the town 8-ball in us and losing.

if you think I'm scum with Bingle, I guess this probably just looks like some classic worst scumfuckery trying to sneak in a wagon on a third party 8-ball so call my bluff, I guess. whatever you do you.

[the worst]

Reads are loosely at

MT
Bingle
the worst
House
Ss
Imaginality

[the worst]

Do you trust me?

[the worst]

Do you trust me?

I question anyone that thinks another player is more likely to be town than the deviance of their own time pm.

i question anyone who expects someone else to trust someone who they themselves don't trust even if that person is the other person's self.


memeing aside i did put my list in that order for like, a specific reason though.

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It wasn't a serious response.

I'm acutely aware that if I'm wrong on MT or Bingle I'm probably screwed so read list discreetly signified that.

Do you have anything to add?

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Not until you disclose why you're not the towniest player in your own reads.

it's a stylistic choice of asserting my position on the gamestate. if i'm wrong on either of {MT,bingle} then i'm sitting on top of a house of cards!! i can't fully explain why i decided to do it in the spur of the moment without like, opening my brain to you. mafia requires an extent of faith and i'm going to ultimately need you to do some of your own thinking about my posting here.

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if i ever become predictable, please hold a hand out in the direction i'm about to walk so as to non-violently and politely donk me on the head.

pedit: that's understandable and my brain is an organism of sheer chaos. did you like our 1v1 theme anyway?

[the worst]

current mood on our 1v1 is

HELL

YEAH

no thanks

!!!!

Not until you disclose why you're not the towniest player in your own reads.

it's a stylistic choice of asserting my position on the gamestate. if i'm wrong on either of {MT,bingle} then i'm sitting on top of a house of cards!! i can't fully explain why i decided to do it in the spur of the moment without like, opening my brain to you. mafia requires an extent of faith and i'm going to ultimately need you to do some of your own thinking about my posting here.

Yeah, I know that. It's just... the times I've seen players list others as townier than them in their own reads, they flipped scum.

Granted, it was years ago, it just still sits with me because that's my experience that has taught me that scum lets their guilty conscience bleed out in unexpected ways.

you can have my philosophy on guilt if you'd like, but without trying to blow my own horn too much? i'm too experienced to let that get through as a guilty conscience slip.

genuinely, hit me about anything game-related you want to talk about. i don't get what you want from me, and it kinda feels like you're just trying to justify a read you don't have much confidence on.

[the worst]

Well this is gonna be more annoying than I previously anticipated!!!!!

I agree with you that Bingle is seriously town, worst.

House, your reasoning for scumreading worstie might make more sense on a D1 when there's less to work with, but in this current context I don't think a guilty conscience read is something I'd put much weight in. What do you think about worst's posting last page -- particularly about Bingle and the 1v1 and all that

fwiw scum!me still needs to acknowledge that he's in trouble and either
- tank the 1v1 with Bingle because I'm the 8ball and can venge him.
- divert off the 1v1 into an unrelated 8ball regardless of my partner.
- divert attention off the 1v1 and

So please be super careful about townreading me just over me reevaluating. Just letting you know I'm here to play, and I'm fluid - not tunnelling.

[the worst]

i wouldn't say "joke" is quite right. that's more in line with my d1 reads. i realised i wasn't actually confident on bingle a few days ago, realised you were probably town yesterday but it felt more intuitive to commit to the bit until i could actually post a bit, and see how things shook out. did the ISOs properly earlier today.

[the worst]

it's kind of the MT+bingle show atp, i think. if we swing the vote onto non-8ball scum today, we can afford a miselim in 5p even if it's on the 8-ball. i'll probably sheep y'all onto whoever, if that means i'm eating dust tomorrow, i'm not gonna lose much sleep over that. also i can't promise i'll win f3? but it's been ages since i lived that long so if i do get to f3 again i pinkie promise i'll post up an absolute storm and make the other 2 players hate me

[the worst]

ok so like i kinda felt strange about wisdom locktowning me because i would have expected him to be wary that my style has probably changed in ~2 years but i'm not sure if he's ever misread me. lmfao.

[the worst]

sorry, that one is more fun post-game than right now. i'll focus.

[the worst]

You voted Bingle, in 8-ball-lo no less, just 36 hours ago, yet you weren't actually confident on him since 'a few days ago'?

yuh huh!

[the worst]

god forbid I throw my vote around when the only other vote in play is levied at me. what's your point here?

[the worst]

I have already commented that I anticipate some folks will see Bingle/me as s/s and given you're largely PoE'd I'm not surprised that's the position you've taken.

Hmm maybe it was just yesterday I realised I didn't really think Bingle was scum anymore. Felt like longer, long week.

[the worst]

VOTE: imaginality

[the worst]

AM I ABOUT TO BE CONFIRMED TOWN AW YEAH

[the worst]

SS/house is a bit of a wildcard ig but i'm not sure ali + mom see the bingle vs. me 1v1 coming after bingle's d1 and 8-ball me
(not intended to offend, bingle, i think at some peripheral level third parties would probably weakly expect me to do better in a 1v1)

[the worst]

I thought it was a couple of days ago but it was like, that morning. lol.

[the worst]

Regardless the order was "ah dang bungle is town" and then "oh OK mt is town"

[the worst]

understandable. sadly this setup is very low-chill

[the worst]

who's imagi's partner?

[the worst]

I taste really good but my win condition discourages me from encouraging my demise.

[the worst]

oh I'm a vegetarian! wanna be best friends, after we settle this small matter of your problematic wincon?

[the worst]

weirdly i kinda agree, if i'd 8-balled wisdom i would absolutely start by pushing someone else then switch to him

[the worst]

*stands up*

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I mean my 180 is literally real brain thoughts. but I can see why you're concerned, I'm a scary ducky.

counterpoint tho if I was planning to win today with a bingle push would I like.. not have pushed Bingle....

[the worst]

can the town in worst/ss/imagine please stand up

GTH I think it's smart atm, because the narrative duck and imagine are setting up of a duck/Bingle team looks a lot like trying to get me eliminated after duck flips.

Tbf if I wanted to establish a team of u/me to get ur elim, I would have gone about it completely differently. I think imagi is the only one who sees it and like no offence but he's either clowning or his third eye is clearly infected. It's the goofiest thing itt and no one is buying any part of it.

I kinda get that you think this has been the weakest scum play ever but this isn't actually a thing

Imagi is scum probably with ss. he's more likely doubling down on us being the scumteam to murky the waters of associatives with ss/house and even that isn't something I think is really successful. he is v much on his own in thinking a worst/bingle team is believable

anyway strat of going for non 8ball flip today probably wins the game. if we hit red today (ideally imagi) and can get away with an 8ball miselim in f5 I have zero issues being dunked on so that we can also kill ss and win in f3.

[the worst]

now i'm kind of wondering if we were all secretly a little suss of taly and the scumteam just didn't clock that LOL

[the worst]

what's your alternative?

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I'm also not really trusting your "I'll lay down and die in 1v4 because town will win in 3way" because if you lay down and die in 1v4 I think it's pretty obvious that mt dies at night and we have a 3 way where we're not actually guaranteed to hit scum and I think you know that.

to this. my point is that you don't have to trust it. i know i'm town, and i think it's easier to solve this game without me as a distraction.

[the worst]

now i'm kind of wondering if we were all secretly a little suss of taly and the scumteam just didn't clock that LOL

i definitely would have killed Taly so oopds

MT scum confrimed

Open question: Who is least likely 8-ball in worsty/imagine/SS, who is least likely town etc etc even though im sure lots of people have decided already

i think mom was kinda low energy and kinda got away with it but might have been a bit nervous goin into today. she was given a free pass d1 tbqh. imagi kinda got away with a lot and wasn't really widely scumread outside of Wisdom...? if we kill imagi and hit a vengekill it's like, awkward but not the worst. i don't really think he came into today feeling like he was all that scared for his life after wisdom's flip so my intuition still tells me the 8ball is in the {bingle,tw} dichotomy on hopes that bingle would double down and we'd just murder each other in the face.

I mean my 180 is literally real brain thoughts. but I can see why you're concerned, I'm a scary ducky.

counterpoint tho if I was planning to win today with a bingle push would I like.. not have pushed Bingle....

What would you have done, in theory?

in a world where i am scum w/o bingle + bingle is 8-ball? basically:
i've been like hella lazy so far so i'd probably do some more like, vocal/towny-looking stuff to accumulate a little more clout. if I'm scum in this game my ability to win is currently v low. i'm town and think we can read our way thru the problems we have atm, so my wincon doesn't feel super hard to achieve if i need to die before endgame. so accumulating clout and trying to avoid heat directly on me would be gr8. as far as getting the bingle elim - i didn't really have a firm gauge of how d2 would open except that i thought bingle would probably still wanna lim me. i think i could get away with frantic re-evaluating for a couple of days while people weighed in (and as it were, replacements caught up) and get a better idea for the like, thread zeitgeist around bingle.

i also don't really think bingle has towntold until today when he was fairly convinced he'd be in a dire 1v1 and desperately needed my elim. that's pretty consistent with Bingle's townplay - he's very capable of strong town play, but doesn't tend to townTELL until something piques his interest. it's truest in mechanical games (if he gets a gritty setup and is town in it and needs to save the day, he starts levitating and his eyes start glowing. not exaggerating, it literally happens). so if he wasn't going to reevaluate his read on me, i'd be better to position myself as townier, so that he looks like he's pushing a half-baked read on someone he's tunnelling for d1 lurking. I think that's a less exciting world than the perceived 1v1 we're locked into atm. to that end, most especially: my engaging in his perception of a 1v1 increases his investment in the game, which means he's both more likely to towntell and more likely to actually get my elimination. so like, i'd do roughly the opposite of what i'm doing here.

but also if you want to assume that all of this is bullshit and i'm just making it up as i go (partly true), let's assume i just would have gone all-out today and tried to dunk on bingle. would i not have done so by going over his d1? his moves around the wisdom wagon are optically bad, and he has pretty limited associatives with most slots. even once you split out optics, i genuinely think there's enough there that i could have worked a case if i wanted to. that would have also helped with my thread position (and like if i was hypothetically scum with imagi he's pretty present, so we could just work different angles in sync).

[the worst]

The worst lied about his change in read on Bingle.
I really don't buy that 'a few days ago' can mean 36 hours ago.

"Lied" is pretty transparent posturing. I've just had one of the busiest weeks of my year (second Pfizer shot, end of financial quarter at work, covering for people, multiple shifts in my second job, MS responsibilities have been a bit hectic). I also fairly clearly wield a nonchalant ditzy public persona. I'm struggling to believe that you actually just think this was a blatant lie and that it would have been in my interests to even lie about that. Lol.[/quote]

I think the worst, SS and I are all similar enough chances of being 8-ball (see my earlier odds post for my estimates) that if we're eliminating from that pool today we should just go for who we think is scummiest.

this is not a helpful strategy if we just go straight into 1:3. if we can try to hit 1:4, we absolutely should. 1:4 is a massive advantage over 2:4 or 1:3 just to be clear - in 1:4, we can miselim an 8-ball and get away with it.

[the worst]

[the worst]

unpredictable and smart

he's vegan, he's near my timezone, and he complimented me. i think i found my new best friend.

[the worst]

imagine's insistence on worst/bingle being plausible rather than conceding bingle!town is almost towny. maybe

I feel like I've wasted an hour thinking about this game and got nowhere

i'd counter that he doesn't really have many places to go atm. lol. the plist is small.

that said i'm also reasonably confident it's just {imagi,ss} so i'm definitely tunnelling.

[the worst]

my intuition still tells me the 8ball is in the {bingle,tw} dichotomy on hopes that bingle would double down and we'd just murder each other in the face.

Convenient view for {Bingle, the worst} scum team to hold

I can see why Bingle is an obv 8-ball candidate if town, but I don't see why scum would assume Bingle would have enough clout today to drive the lim on you, so you seeing yourself as likely 8-ball seems more like scum guiltiness, or defence against pressure being on you, compared with objectively justified.

it doesn't take a lot of imagination when you look back over at how lazy my iso was yesterday! i don't feel all that elim-proof!!
guilt is a really superficial alignment tell - i absolutely do feel guilty, but i feel guilty for being town who half-assed the first phase.

[the worst]

while i should be yelling that your reads are silly!!! and this is never my scumgame!!!!!!! >:{ i do need to credit your reads for a moment. i pivoted from a half-baked push into reads which were becoming fairly obvious imo. i haven't really had super spicy takes this game.

[the worst]

i wish i was scum with MT

[the worst]

@Bingle @the worst are you on board with limming SS today? Pretend you can't hear what the other one is saying, like prisoners' dilemma.

Spoiler: NO BINGLE

yeah i am

[the worst]

i kinda just think i want imagi

[the worst]

i honestly just don't think either of them are all that likely

[the worst]

i'm fairly certain i have scum on my wagon

[the worst]

i'm fairly certain i have scum on my wagon

Who?

do you like cats?

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i'm fairly certain i have scum on my wagon

Who?

do you like cats?

Who doesn't like cats??

HEATHENS

i have two cats, they're really cute. my old cat is a tabby who is kinda anxious and shy and really pretty and secretly super snuggly but she doesn't let it show. her lil bro is like, a fairly black tabby-ish kitty who's only 8 months and he's ridiculously sociable and on a never-ending adventure.

cats are wonderful. anyone who isn't allergic to cats should live with at least one.

[the worst]

imagi's version of reality requires me to be scum and it's clearly internally inconsistent lmao i have never felt more towny than i do rn

[the worst]

reckon we just yeet imagi today innit it

[the worst]

My friend and I once got a taxi from Guildford to Woking at 2am in the morning. We dozed off in the cab and woke up near Wokingham. When we pointed out to the taxi driver we'd said to take us to Woking, he replied, "Wokingham, same as Woking, innit?"

Fantastic.

[the worst]

i'm not saying that i don't trust MT
buuuutttttttt...







just kidding
#1172 feels like a bus vote though

[the worst]

[the worst]

nearly high noon y'all

good is the MT + Bingle show rn (which means it's the MT show because Bingle has apparently fuckin disappeared), I can offer opinions but I'm wary that I'm not really trusted here.

[the worst]

Spoiler: duck thoughts, only click if you're ready for your mind to be corrupted by evil pond water

town's only real vector to loss atm is if we hit 8 balls back to back, or if the scumteam is something goofy like 2 of {me, Bingle, imagi, house} or it's like, Bingle + {ss, hoise} (associatives suck but Bingle's push on me is independently towny. I think him freezing now we're coming down to the wire is probably not a good sign.

All in all I think you're overthinking it though. Given how d1 finished, and how passively today shook out til I flipped the table, tw/bingle was meant to be the main event. The scummier slots in the game (imagi/ss) are weakly positing that eliminating in them is a bad idea because of 8-ball equity, but aren't really committing to solving the balance of slots for non-8b scum. I think that's a reasonably strong indicator the solve is just imagi/ss. My wild card rn is actually imagi/Bingle but I think we lose that game most of the time.

I know scum took the hardmode elim on d2, but also remember that was a very significant 1v1 between wisdom + imagi which invented on d1. It was a challenging elimination, but it wasn't an impossible elimination and there was some level of anticipation for a significant swing back against Wisdom. I think Ali would have been too obvious an 8-ball choice for d2 in hindsight, but hindsight is 20/20, etc.

I don't think it's you and I don't think it's House. I don't reeeeally think it's Bingle. SS and imagi fit for what I'd expect scum to be doing here (working different reads and different pockets while hoping y'all independently fall on the wrong side of the fence but preparing for the worst). I think we just yeet imagi today - 8-ball equity isn't all that high but scum equity is v high.

Imagi is postin real cute here because he knows he has a high risk of going down and his partner has a decent way to go, I think. Behaviourally I'd be pretty surprised if that's coming from non-8b scum (but I'm fallible ane like to be surprised)

pedit: I was starting to suspect it, but still, my heart soars.

[the worst]

I'll tell you why you don't trust me post-game if you'd like I think I can see it.

[the worst]

Actually I could tell you now ig it doesn't super matter

[the worst]

It's true, SS is like "Bingle is probably the 8-ball oOoOOoooO" but isn't exactly helping us win, he's not solving. He has Bingle and imagine as his team i think.....

pedit: Whatever feels right!

If the team is imagine/SS i dont think either of them are 8-ball so i guess it doesnt really matter if that is in fact right

last time i scum'd against u my wincon was picking the losing side of you vs. pooky and then letting the winner get dunked on the following phase. that's exactly what happened.

in this phase i'm consistently picking the right battles to fight, which is reminiscent of the kind of way i react to gamestates as scum. it just so happens that this time i'm doing it *after* it's already too late for me to have done so to win clout as scum which is 1) more superficially scummy, and 2) not actually reminiscent of the way i approach the game as scum!!

[the worst]

Behaviourally I'd be pretty surprised if that's coming from 8b* scum (but I'm fallible ane like to be surprised)

correcting a typo here, i felt like i had this niggling feeling this post made no sense

[the worst]

it's not shade

[the worst]

real life gotta real life
you're just like, literally not here rn while we're making a significant decision
wouldn't imply for a moment that you should be prioritising this over real life, it's just... a thing...

[the worst]

i'm kinda thinking maybe i'm not the 8-ball now and that is so exciting

[the worst]

we need every townie to agree, so like. if i'm run up today then i'm run up, so be it. don't hammer test multiple people, please. that just dramatically increases the probability of wagoning the 8-ball and getting quickhammered into the L.

[the worst]

I don't really give two shits whether there's a hammer or not.

My scumreads are PoE'd.

tbf if you're town (i think you are) then your PoE is just... wrong... but yeah please keep the mechanical impact of what you're doing with votes in mind

[the worst]

i'm like, holding my vote rather than putting it on SS because there's no point in losing to a weird ass e.g. {imagi + house/bingle} scumteam this late but i'm obviously down to do SS over me. lol.

[the worst]

House your form of information requires us to gamble the game for no reasonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

+1 all you learn is whether someone is the 8-ball. which is not useful.

[the worst]

I mean gambling the game is inevitable. Why not do it sooner?

gambling the game on one elimination is just mafia. gambling the game on whether 2/6 of the plist is the 8-ball is just goofy

[the worst]

don't tell them

[the worst]

because we agreed to shoot taly and make STD the 8-ball?

[the worst]

i'm still p sure imagi was waiting in the sidelines hoping i'd push bingle but i don't really know who the 8-ball is in that scenario and i'm suddenly less certain on imagi's partner.

[the worst]

Notice how u never see ss and imagi in the same room at the same time? food for thought mmmmm

[the worst]

I feel like one day you'll get my sense of humour and look back over this game and laugh

[the worst]

I'm just thinking about why I cannot seem to figure out SS/imagine/worst, at all. We're probably not going to instantly lose voting worst, but Bingle/imagine will win if we ever eliminate SS, which is a huge pain.

after hard townreadin bingle for a bit i'm swingin back to bingle/imagi as well
imagi still a better lim. ss is not a good lim. i may not be 8ball cleared.

[the worst]

SS townpostin

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Are we having a moment right now worst and SS?

i'm having a moment with SS but i've chewed all my nails off

[the worst]

(ditto)

[the worst]

wolves have claws... awoo..

[the worst]

Alright ducky

sniff

So... is it you (you can be honest with me)

no i'm sorry.

[the worst]

i wish i wasn't town but alas

[the worst]

YAS KING SS

[the worst]

you did great. <3

[the worst]

you were genuinely a delight, imagi. even though you were evil.

[the worst]

Hell yeah! We'll edamam-eliminate some seitan scums (or tempeh townies?)

[the worst]

rematch but you and i are the scumteam?

[the worst]

5 Wisdom (

House

,

Taly

,

imaginality

,

Morning Tweet

[kinda compromiseish],

Bingle

[lolhammer])

your lim was pretty heavily scum influenced, and was also a goofy deadline scramble. i think bingle was too secure for the wagon to swing against him, and there weren't really any other serious contenders. i think we would have been better off had we lim'd Ali d1 (withdrawn if e was the 8-ball ), but as a townie who didn't do enough on d1-d2: i think it was mostly the town's fault for letting that go through.

[the worst]

Bahahaha OK withdrawn y'all chose well

[the worst]

in mechanical games (if he gets a gritty setup and is town in it and needs to save the day, he starts levitating and his eyes start glowing.

May I sig ducky?

absolutely. <3

sorry that it seemed like I was shading for your literally not being around; it was more of a "I think town!bingle seeing *waves hands* is more likely to realise that he needs to seriously reevaluate" kinda vibe.

[the worst]

y'all remember the days when I was too cute to lim?