Newbie 2079 | Open House | Game Over!!!

[RH9]

What are we supposed to do on D1? This is my first Forum Mafia game.

[RH9]

I agree with Prism that we should wait before voting anybody.

[RH9]

Oh, I didn't know this. To be fair, I really can't tell the difference between Mafia and Town. So, we basically randomly vote somebody in order to see if they're the Mafia.

[RH9]

Since it's Random Voting Stage, I'll just randomly vote somebody too.
VOTE: Connordragon07 for reactions.

[RH9]

Don't worry! I think I'll talk at least once per day too.

[RH9]

Oh they have, welcome Connor from Europe tell me why prism not voting might be scum indicative?

Just thought it was a bit weird that they were active and were yet to vote, that's all. Pretty sure I was the third person to respond to my PM because I just logged on before I went to sleep and saw that I had a new message.

What's bwing?

Find it kinda weird that Cheeky doesn't know what bandwagoning is when they're SE and it's a really common term but I'll let it slide.

Prism seems really aggressive but I can't tell if they're pushy mafia or just a pushy townie, so yeah.

I'll try to post at least twice a day, if not more, but this'll (probably) be my last post for now since it's 12am.

I guess that bwing is not a common Forum Mafia abbreviation, so I guess that it makes sense that CheekyTeeky didn't know it. Should I unvote so that I can be free to vote somebody else and I know that there's no more AFKs?

By the way, I think that I'll do it now and think of somebody else to vote. UNVOTE: Connordragon07

[RH9]

(Quick sidenote post here)
I'm coming from an experience of mostly IRL mafia.

While there, I've found it very hard for myself to add anything meaningful to a conversation. No matter my alignment, I feel like everything I say is self-incriminating.
If someone has confidence tips for helping move the game forward without feeling like a fool I would love to know.

"I feel like everything I say is self-incriminating." same

To be fair, I find that since I don't have a meta yet, it is easier for me, not to get bandwagonned immediately or feel like self-incriminating myself, like I would in a site where I have an established meta and where vote counts are displayed in real time. I find that due to the timing of the vote count in Forum Mafia, I feel less pressured and less likely to say things which self-incriminate. I also find it easier that the timing of Forum Mafia lets me write more.

[RH9]

Is it all right if I wait until the vote count is posted before I vote?

[RH9]

I have to say that I pretty much read everybody town so far. However, I'm not sure what makes camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, or DaTacoX, mafia. I do find it confusing why camelCasedSnivy read themselves as Mafia. I have to say that these reads might change later.

[RH9]

I have to say that I pretty much read everybody town so far. However, I'm not sure what makes camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, or DaTacoX, mafia. I do find it confusing why camelCasedSnivy read themselves as Mafia. I have to say that these reads might change later.

Never said DTX was mafia. Cheeky probs is mafia bc of their poe and their bw and also you really took my self suspicion seriously.

I just thought that the way you read yourself made me think that you were a vanilla role. I thought that if you had an extremely important role, you would be reading yourself as 100% town or something, but then I could be wrong. I do apologise if I took your self suspicion too seriously.

[RH9]

I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to PR hunt. I will try to never do that again. I thought that by finding a Vanilla role, you could find the Mafia Goon.

[RH9]

And to be fair, I think that the reason why fakeclaiming as Town is disliked is because fakeclaiming as a PR like Cop could cause the real Cop to counterclaim and let Mafia perform their night kill on them.

[RH9]

Anyways, should I just vote RegRider as my second random vote? I think I'll do it anyways until he says something about it.
VOTE: RegRider

[RH9]

Actually, UNVOTE: RegRider. I forgot that he said that he was going to be inactive until D2.

[RH9]

Yeah, sorry. I forgot.

[RH9]

I'm not sure who to vote anymore. Everybody else seems so innocent and I don't want to PR hunt anymore.

[RH9]

Wait, you were on ConnorDragon07? I thought that it was camelCasedSnivy who claimed Vanilla. Oh dear! I feel so bad. now that I kind of outted too many people.

[RH9]

Has there ever been a player who played like a Mafia, but wasn't Mafia? I just want to confirm. That's all. I'm pretty sure that a player who was Town would not play like a Mafia.

[RH9]

Also, who should I vote for? I feel like that I'm going to have to claim a role soon. Though, I feel like Mafia's going to win.

[RH9]

Like Mafia can literally all claim Vanilla role, now that they realise claiming PR will get them in trouble.

[RH9]

Like they know that claiming PR is scummy.

[RH9]

Oh, thank you. By the way, would a PR hunt for another PR to help the other PR?

[RH9]

Ok, I get it. I'm just confused/a bad player. Also, going to back to my previous post (post 151), would the Doctor try to find the Cop (if there is either) to save the Cop from the Mafia?

[RH9]

Actually, I get what you're trying to say. I shouldn't have tried to find the PR. I just wanted to help them, and Town.

[RH9]

Actually, is this TMI?

[RH9]

Ok, thanks. So neither Cop, Doctor, nor another PR should ever try to PR hunt? I think that I'll remember this for the future. Like, so I never get myself in this sort of situation again.

[RH9]

Like I'm not saying that I'm a PR.

[RH9]

Ok, thanks for the advice.

[RH9]

Oh, so you were unvoting me?

[RH9]

I'm getting confused.

[RH9]

None before this one.

[RH9]

I used to want to play but kept on deciding otherwise. I finally decided to play a game this year.

[RH9]

Well, I'm new to Forum Mafia.

[RH9]

Yeah, a vote count is good.

[RH9]

I'm probably not going to very active today. Sorry.

[RH9]

Wait, flow trap knows how you play?

[RH9]

Oh, that's lucky.

[RH9]

Uh, if I don't have anything important to contribute, should I stay quiet? Or should I try to do a scumread?

[RH9]

Like I have to say that I don't want to be a totally bad player, and do another townread.

[RH9]

Was putting a reads list together before I came in the thread, wrote at the top of the doc "snake guy is scummy af" without realising I am now the snake guy. Alas, I am Town, and clearly have bad reads on first impression

It is currently 2am where I am, so I'm going to try and get some sleep and remake the reads list in the morning

I think that your reads are fine because it makes sense because Noksve did only make like 6 posts before requesting replacement.

[RH9]

To be fair, I like how while nobody exactly townreads me, nobody completely scumreads me either. The reasoning provided by MargotRosa has convinced me to VOTE: Prism.

[RH9]

Ok, I'll UNVOTE: Prism because their defence makes sense.

[RH9]

I really don't know.

[RH9]

I kind of agree with DaTacoX's townread, but I'm not sure about Prism and RegRider. They both seem helpful and have somewhat good defences as to why they're not anti-Town.

[RH9]

To be fair, I have to say that I agree with CheekyTeeky when it comes to "quality over quantity". I agree with that even if a player posts like 90 posts, if most of the posts are filler, then a player with only 10 posts, but which are full of quality, then the player with 10 posts is, by my opinion, less likely to be scum. For this reason, now, if I had to vote anybody, it probably wouldn't be MargotRosa or CheekyTeeky. Also, don't take this as an attack. And don't worry, everybody who had not been mentioned above, I definitely not saying that you're Mafia, because everybpdy is

innocent until proven guilty

.

[RH9]

*everybody

[RH9]

I kind of agree with DaTacoX's townread, but I'm not sure about Prism and RegRider. They both seem helpful and have somewhat good defences as to why they're not anti-Town.

Why is everyone against RegRider and Prism?

What makes you two think RegRider isn't scummy?

I think that I should clarify a bit. I am unsure whether RegRider is Mafia or Town. He seemed to want to doublecheck my experience, which makes sense to me considering that people don't usually wait for years before finally playing their first Newbie game. I think that asking about my experience on Forum Mafia, isn't too indicative of Mafia. That being said, I would find that it would be safer to wait a bit longer before voting anybody.

[RH9]

I mean that we wait for more scumtells.

[RH9]

And to be fair, the latest developments really makes me doubt that Prism is Mafia at all. And I would say that my current townleans mainly consists of camelCasedSnivy and CheekyTeeky. Everybody else is kind of neutral for me.

[RH9]

I think that the some of the reasons provided by DaTacoX, especially the one on pressuring CheekyTeeky, has prompted me to VOTE: RegRider.

[RH9]

Ok, I'll UNVOTE: RegRider. The reason why I found DaTacoX convincing was the same reason why I found MargotRosa convincing. Their reasoning just seemed to make so much sense.

[RH9]

Sorry, Prism for not getting back to you earlier about this.

[RH9]

I...really think you can dig deeper into

why

the reasoning struck a chord with you, even if it might take time to pinpoint it.

I thought that due to the evidence provided, it made perfect sense to vote both you and RegRider. I promise that in the future to dig deeper before voting from the reasoning of others. I think that really, my townleans are still somewhat the same, however.

[RH9]

MargotRosa's reasoning was written with such depth that I forgot that she didn't read all the posts at the time. The depth really struck with me. However, I have to admit that voting RegRider was a mistake on my behalf. Sorry, RegRider.

[RH9]

And now I've decided that I'm probably not going to be able convince that I'm so totally not anti-Town, because of the PR hunting and sheeping everybody who provides convincing reasoning, as well as voting and unvoting RegRider twice. I hope that this doesn't make a big impact on my future meta and I would say that if nobody wants to voting RegRider anymore, then they can feel free to vote me, as an alternative.

[RH9]

Wait, what exactly did flow trap do, other then starting a bandwagon on RegRider, then voting Connordragon07, then after MargotRosa voted them, voted her? Did I miss anything? I'm worried that I missed something worse that they did. Wait, did flow trap vote CheekyTeeky, at one point?

[RH9]

Oh, thank you. That's what the ISO thing was for.

[RH9]

I would say that voting Connordragon07 seems reasonable due to Post 424 where he says that he thought that we miseliminated RegRider. This could be a legitimate slip or he could have been so confident that RegRider was Town, that he thought that it was mislim. However, I am propably going to wait a while for Connordragon07's response and then decide whether or not I should vote him.

[RH9]

I would say that voting Connordragon07 seems reasonable due to Post 424 where he says that he thought that we miseliminated RegRider. This could be a legitimate slip or he could have been so confident that RegRider was Town, that he thought that it was mislim. However, I am propably going to wait a while for Connordragon07's response and then decide whether or not I should vote him.

Not really sure if Snivy would remember but when I played with them on Mafia.gg, I was extremely against voting without evidence. RVS is fine for me since we're just messing around and nobody's gonna be condemned during it, but unless Cop had info/it was pretty much confirmed townies left I just wouldn't hammer unless I rolled mafia. Just used to ToS logic where it isn't optimal to condemn someone D2 unless somebody had significant info or just outright refused to claim on the stand.

I understand. I probably not going to vote you, for now.

[RH9]

I'm curious to hear more from RegRider, especially their thoughts on Connordragon and their reaction to the long sought-after readslist from Cheeky.

I agree. I would like to hear from him as well. To be fair, after reading back by myself, I can see why it was so incorrect of me to vote both you and RegRider at different points without thinking about the evidence. I'm probably going to vote tomorrow too.

[RH9]

Actually, I better vote today before I go to sleep.

[RH9]

And actually, I might vote for Connordragon07 because he seems to want Cop to out if they have info even though this might put Cop in danger. See Post 453. VOTE: Connordragon07

[RH9]

But then, he seems sure that there's a Cop and was not that upset at my PR hunt. See Post 104.

[RH9]

And by the way I'm probably not going to active for the rest of Day 1 (because in my timezone, Day 1 ends while I'm sleeping). And sorry for the short posts.

[RH9]

Yeah, I know. I'm going to post my reads/observations soon.

[RH9]

And as possibly my last post for Day 1, I'm going to make a table of observations.

RH9's Observations
Player	Notes
Connordragon07	Does not seem concerned about my PR hunt and seems to find it all right for Cop to out if they have info, even. if this could lead to a PR getting killed by Mafia. Seemed to have thought that eliminating RegRider was mislim, though that seems to be because he thinks that we shouldn't vote without evidence, which makes sense. See Posts 104, 424,438, and 453.
DaTacoX	Is very good at being convincing. Made a readslist. See Post 341, and see Post 412, which convinced me to vote RegRider, for a while.
MargotRosa	Also is very good at being convincing. See Post 271 which convinced me to vote Prism, for a while.
RegRider	Seems to be pro-Town, because of reaction to my PR hunt. See Post 472.
camelCasedSnivy	Seems to be helpful and one of the pro-Town. Made a readslist. See Post 384, and 441.
CheekyTeeky	Seems very helpful and pro-Town. Made a readlist. See Post 342.
flow trap	Started a bandwagon on RegRider, then voted Connordragon07, then after MargotRosa voted them, voted her. See Posts 281, 405, and 409
Prism	Seems to be pro-Town and made two readslists. See Posts 244, 279, 280, 427, 428, 429, 430, and 433, to list a few.

[RH9]

Ok, UNVOTE: Connordragon07 because nobody else is voting him.

[RH9]

I really see no point for me to be the only person voting him. Though, the Night will probably give me enough time to reread everything.

[RH9]

And I'll probably VOTE: RegRider, even though majority is already met and I don't completely scumread him.

[RH9]

To be fair, I'm somewhat confused as to why Mafia chose to target DaTacoX. I'm also sad that we lost two Vanilla Townies. I think that voting flow trap may seem like a good idea, because they started the bandwagon on RegRider. However, flow trap could be Town.

[RH9]

In that flow trap's argument made sense at the time and he did unvote RegRider later on. Wait, could this be scummy?

[RH9]

And now I feel like that voting flow trap would have been a better idea than Connordragon07, who was probably only trying to help.

[RH9]

Wait, what did camelCasedSnivy and me do, which makes us seem a Mafia team together? By the way, if I really was Mafia, I wouldn't have targeted DaTacoX, for sure. Prism's, by the far, one of the most towny players, and their reads are probably the most accurate. Remember how they townread DaTacoX and he ended up being a Vanilla Town. I would say that Prism seems like a Town Leader to me, so I'm follow them. Anyways, I actually thought that DaTacoX was Mafia, until I realised that he was Vanilla Town, who had followed flow trap's bandwagon on RegRider. Sorry, DaTacoX, by the way, if you are reading this!

[RH9]

By the way, if I really was Mafia, I wouldn't have targeted DaTacoX, for sure. Prism's, by the far, one of the most towny players, and their reads are probably the most accurate.

If Prism is clearly a town leader and their reads are accurate then, why is Prism still here?

The Mafia could want us to vote them off so that they can use their NK on somebody else like DaTacoX who is good at being convincing as well as being townread by a lot of players. So Mafia could be trying to get rid of the convincing towny players and then leave the players who are bound to get themselves eliminated for acting like Mafia (e.g. PR hunting). Mafia can also get the Town Leaders eliminated so that they don't need to waste their NK when Town can help them eliminate every other member of Town. I have to say that whoever the real Mafia team, they're probably really smart. Also, I now kind of townread Connordragon07 more.

[RH9]

Also, what happened to everybody else? To be fair, I would like to hear their opinions about the latest events because it is always good to hear the opinions of all.

[RH9]

I honestly think that taking someone who is confident and makes sense at their word just because they are confident and make sense is a good way to lose the game quickly.

Like, if I was in RH9's shoes, and was confused why DaTacoX was killed and the obviously Townie Prism wasn't killed, that would make me more likely scum read Prism, if only because the only explanation that makes sense in that universe is that Prism is actually a Scum who wouldn't self-elimination (for obvious reasons).

For the record, reading over the last few posts of d1, I am starting to warm up to the idea of Town Prism, still unsure on the FlowTrap/Catboi slot, and really don't like RH9 who seems less Town every post they make.

Cheeky and Connor currently null, with Cheeky more Town, and Connor more Scum purely on vibes

Well, it was only after Mafia NKed DaTacoX, that I started townreading Prism. Before that, I would have thought that CheekyTeeky was Town. So if I was Mafia, I would have NKed CheekyTeeky, not DaTacoX nor Prism. Also, if I was Mafia, I would immediately bus my Mafia partner as soon as somebody began to scumread me. However, because I am not Mafia, I'm going to let the real Mafia bus their partner and for Town to catch them Day 3. But then, I mainly come from an experience where if Mafia busses their partner(s), they can potentially trick the Town into helping them win. So, therefore, I'm sorry that if I don't flip Mafia, that I haven't been very good at being pro-Town for this game up to this point, and potentially causing a lot of trouble for Town.

[RH9]

By the way, I'm probably going to wait a while. Because, if Mafia end up bandwagonning me (which I think they would because they can later justify it as PR hunting Day 1), then they're pretty much going to get caught. To be fair, the only people who I still townread from Day 1 would be camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, and I townread Prism as well, though I didn't completely do that in Day 1 (I voted for them based off MargotRosa's reads). I would say that I also townread catboi (more than I townread flow trap, who they replaced). I townread Connordragon07 more than I townread MargotRosa. I'll probably post my reasoning sometime later.

[RH9]

I'm going to make a table of observations, so far, again of everybody who is still alive.

RH9's Observations
Player	Notes
Connordragon07	Can't say anything about him for Day 2 because the only posts that were posted were somewhat neutral. See Posts 541 and 580.
MargotRosa	Seems to have gotten a guilty report. See Post 595 and other posts.
camelCasedSnivy	Probably pro-Town, though not the most active. See their posts.
CheekyTeeky	Among the most active for Day 2. Probably pro-Town. See their posts.
catboi	Among the most active for Day 2. Seems more Town than flow trap was. See their posts.
Prism	Among the most active for Day 2, and probably the Town Leader. See their posts.

[RH9]

Seems to have gotten a guilty report. See Post 595 and other posts.

...Why are you assuming Margot has a guilty report on you?

It seems to me so because of even though she thought that there was Mafia on the RegRider bandwagon, she voted for me instead of anybody on the bandwagon. She seems really certain that I am Mafia which means that either she recieved a guilty report as Town, knows my real role as a Mafia Rolecop, or knows that I'm not Mafia but is aware that it is easier to convince everybody that this is true, to stop future PR hunts. I think that either are equally likely.

[RH9]

Oh, I meant that she could fake a guilty report since there has been nobody who had claimed anything, and. nobody should claim anything. And by the way, I was listing possibilities. I highly doubt that MargotRosa is a Town Cop, because the real Town Cop will probably just really quiet because outing as PR is not a good idea until E-1. Especially, since Mafia might NK the Cop. Note, I'm probably not going to claim anything until E-1 but if I flip Town, then it is most certain that MargotRosa is not Town Cop, and that means that Mafia was on both wagons or soon to be wagons.

[RH9]

I am allowed to not vote until later, if I want to, right? I want to see whether MargotRosa was trying to scumhunt or to start a convincing bandwagon. Then, it will help me decide on who to vote for. I do hope that this was an attempted scunhunt because that makes more sense unless if she was Mafia Rolecop, which she only has a 1/7 chance of being, if there is no Town Cop. It is much more likely to me that she is not Mafia Rolecop, though, this doesn't mean that she can't be Mafia Goon or Mafia Roleblocker, if Town Cop exists. I'm not going to hunt for the Town Cop because PR hunting is not what Town should be doing.

[RH9]

Wait, is crossvoting a thing?

[RH9]

Like I remember people doing it before but I just realised that CheekyTeeky voted Prism and Prism voted CheekyTeeky. But then, this doesn't mean that I should be voting MargotRosa, who hopes Mafia doesn't NK on Night 2.

[RH9]

I mean that I don't want MargotRosa to be NKed on Night 2. Sorry for the typo.

[RH9]

I mean that I hope that MargotRosa doesn't get NKed.

[RH9]

Everyone is focussing very hard on the fact that I said there was scum on the wagon, which was a one off post I made while stream of consciousnessing my way back into a Mafia game.

Oh, I see. I understand. It was a stream of consciousness. Somebody should have said so. It now makes more sense to me that you voted me but mentioned the bandwagon beforehand.

[RH9]

Uh, what are we supposed to do? Day 2 feels so quiet. Is this normal? Also, should I vote anybody? There's apparently two days until Night 3. camelCasedSnivy seems quieter than Day 1. But this isn't scummy, right? Like they claimed like Vanilla Town already. Also, I am tempted to cross-vote but that just feels scummy to me. Like unless you know the person who's voting you is Mafia, voting them just feels wrong.

[RH9]

A no-lim is worse than a mislim, right? Like I'm pretty sure that I heard from somewhere that it is better to eliminate somebody than to not eliminate at all. Not that I'm saying that a mislim going to happen.

[RH9]

My biggest worry so far is that I townread both CheekyTeeky and Prism. Self-voting is like so scummy and cross-voting is not right to me either. I would have wanted to vote camelCasedSnivy to see if CheekyTeeky is right about them being on the scum team, but then that would get me eliminated Day 3, and I don't want to get eliminated or NKed, as a matter of fact. So I'll just wait for somebody else to vote before voting.

[RH9]

My biggest worry so far is that I townread both CheekyTeeky and Prism. Self-voting is like so scummy and cross-voting is not right to me either. I would have wanted to vote camelCasedSnivy to see if CheekyTeeky is right about them being on the scum team, but then that would get me eliminated Day 3, and I don't want to get eliminated or NKed, as a matter of fact. So I'll just wait for somebody else to vote before voting.

...why do you find cheeky's arguments for camel being scum convincing?

I just found it that if camelCasedSnivy or me both flip Town, CheekyTeeky's going to lose credibility but so would MargotRosa if I flip Town.

[RH9]

I'm basically in the same boat. I have some rough order of preference but cat can fake everything so far and I can barely understand the last 6/7 posts of RH9, and without some more opinionated play from him he will always be a question mark.

So I should start making more sense?

[RH9]

My biggest worry so far is that I townread both CheekyTeeky and Prism. Self-voting is like so scummy and cross-voting is not right to me either. I would have wanted to vote camelCasedSnivy to see if CheekyTeeky is right about them being on the scum team, but then that would get me eliminated Day 3, and I don't want to get eliminated or NKed, as a matter of fact. So I'll just wait for somebody else to vote before voting.

...why do you find cheeky's arguments for camel being scum convincing?

I just found it that if camelCasedSnivy or me both flip Town, CheekyTeeky's going to lose credibility but so would MargotRosa if I flip Town.

You have expressed a townread on cheekyteeky and a willingness to follow her and I'm not sure I understand why.

To be fair, the main problem for me is that CheekyTeeky's reaction to my Day 1 activities was so towny that the only thing she did to dampen this feeling is stating that camelCasedSnivy is Mafia with me. But then, I really want to know if MargotRosa is Mafia. This means that I'm going to vote the person who I townread the least. VOTE: MargotRosa

[RH9]

And know it is E-1.

[RH9]

I feel like Mafia wanted flow trap eliminated but Catboi replaced them and now, Mafia is annoyed because Catboi is too towny to get eliminated. Also, now, I'm certain that ChekyTeeky is Town because they're the first player to outright say that the PR hunt implicated me as a PR. Now, I also somehow get why MargotRosa didn't pursue anybody on the RegRider bandwagon because everybody on that bandwagon was unlikely to get traction because they all seem perfectly like Town. So instead, she votes me because she realises that at least there will be players who might want to vote me and she is correct. So, I would actually congratulate her on that. And really, why is Catboi Mafia, independent of my associations? Catboi can perfectly well be Town but because I seem scummy, Catboi is dragged along while other people who I am likely to also be paired with like Prism who I called a Town Leader and later followed their vote on MargotRosa. If you're so certain that I'm part of the Mafia team, why do you think that Catboi is more likely scum than Town Leader Prism? Note, I'm not saying that Prism is Mafia. I still think that Prism is Town.

[RH9]

So should I unvote? I am worried now that one of my townreads is Mafia because there needs to be two Mafia. You know maybe it would be safe to UNVOTE: MargotRosa. I want to check them first (as in check their posts and interactions).

[RH9]

Actually, VOTE: MargotRosa again because I heard that appeals to emotion are scummy. The Wiki states that this is utilised by Mafia to manipulate us.

[RH9]

Guilt by association is another example of a logical fallacy, as is my appeal to authority.

[RH9]

I think I'll UNVOTE: MargotRosa if that makes her happier.

[RH9]

Haven't been able to post much the last few days because I had a really bad headache on Wednesday and it only got worse up until Saturday, starting to feel a bit better now so I should be able to post more D3.

Rereading this entrance post I noticed that it's all shade >.> I think I was seduced by the Prism vote.
Connor/Margot not SvS.

Not 100% sure what SvS means so could I get a rundown on the acronym?

The recent posts Margot have made have made me feel a bit better about them, they could be Appealing to Emotion but at the same time they did give off a tired energy in their previous votes, and I feel like I'll UNVOTE: MargotRosa for now, if we don't switch to RH9 or somebody else by the time day is almost over then I'm fine to revote them, but I don't feel like having it end just yet. Should be on within the last few hours since that's only like 10pm-11pm for me so I shouldn't be doing anything else.

I think SvS is Scum vs Scum, like bussing.

[RH9]

Margot how hard were you scumreading Flow before cat repped in?

Mostly on a hunch which rested a lot of its weight on the wagon. Since catboi stepped in I've been vacillating, but I think probably more likely town. At the moment I really don't like RH9, and that's my safest bet, especially with pushes like VOTE: 719 and VOTE: 720 being either horrifically worded, or just stepping us through reasons for scum reading people as they are coming up with them

To be fair, what do you dislike other than my opening posts and me voting you, and the fact that I tried looking for logical fallacies and voted you for it. So is it like a feeling, like you just know something you can't describe it? Or is it like much more deeper? To be fair, I feel like only Mafia will vote somebody based on their expression of themselves. And according to the wiki, the third person on a wagon is likely Mafia. See this page.

[RH9]

Actually, the page also talks about the fourth person on a wagon.

[RH9]

So therefore, you should be looking at the third and fourth people who voted RegRider because they are likely the Mafia team. (Well, maybe not CheekyTeeky.)

[RH9]

So you're implying that we're a team. Well, she is like the only person who realised that my Day 1 activity was indicative of a PR and she's probably like one of the only Town on the RegRider wagon other than Prism and obviously DaTacoX.

[RH9]

Sorry for stating the obvious though.

[RH9]

I think it says a lot that my "don't vote" pool is basically just camel who I'm more just praying to mafia jesus is town rather than anything super concrete

To be fair, I kind of agree. My "never going to vote" pool would probably also include camelCasedSnivy. And I find Day 2, harder than Day 1, now that everybody tries to act towny.

[RH9]

I think Mafia went with the safer shot. Like there's no point in Mafia NKing me when the only person who thinks I'm a PR is like you. And if I get eliminated, would that count as a completed game for me?

[RH9]

...yes, if you participated in a game until you're removed by elimination vote, it counts as a completed game. I saw the whole sequence between cheeky and you day 1 where she obviously thought you were a PR. I don't think killing a PR read is always the smartest choice for mafia, but that's neither here nor there.

RH9, who do you want to vote today? We have less than 24 hours.

I'm actually unsure on who to vote for but I feel like Connordragon07 is either Mafia or a PR. He seems to want to avoid voting without evidence, which points to him being either somebody who wants proof or at least somebody who wants to eliminate a confirmed player.

[RH9]

To be fair, since Connordragon07 seemed fine if we switched to somebody who isn't MargotRosa, I'm going to honour his wishes with this. VOTE: Connordragon07 Sorry for making it E-1 again, though it is E-2 for people voting me.

[RH9]

To be fair, I feel like Connordragon07 is going to vote me and then we'll both be E-1. Connordragon07 did explicitly state so in Post 730 that if we didn't switch to me or somebody other than MargotRosa, he was going to revote. To be fair, I feel like Connordragon07 might have been pressured to unvote.

[RH9]

I forgot. Sorry. Anyways, see Post 753. I said that I'm never going to vote camelCasedSnivy and if I can't just break my promise to them. At least this is the current situation. But feel free to list reasons why I should vote camelCasedSnivy. I would highly appreciate it.

[RH9]

Ok, should I role reveal? I know that CheekyTeeky is Town for sure. So that means last Mafia is you, camelCasedSnivy or Margot. I investigated DaTacoX, Day 1, and obviously they were Town, as well.

[RH9]

I know this is useless but I feel like that I have to reveal eventually and it is better for me to protect CheekyTeeky from being eliminated.

[RH9]

Sorry, that is why I decided to reveal this. I don't want to CheekyTeeky to be eliminated, considering that DaTacoX was eliminated, and I was proven wrong. I remember somebody mentioning something about CheekyTeeky being Mafia. I need to find it again. At least, that person is now proven wrong. So I feel like I'm probably the worst Town Cop, ever, because I only keep on getting confirmed Towns. And to be fair, I almost investigated MargotRosa but I wanted to hardconfirm CheekyTeeky before that. And really, I wonder where everybody else is.

[RH9]

Today, I'm going to scumhunt really hard so that I can investigate the right player, though if I survive to the final three, I would probably be able to find out the Mafia through PoE.

[RH9]

I agree about this. Even, if you know that you're going to get eliminated, you shouldn't self-vote. It could hurt your alignment.

[RH9]

Cheeky is actually right. There's a small chance RH9 did not realize claiming cop here would be effectively autoloss as mafia. In that world, my hammer is suboptimal.

You're kind of right. I didn't realise "claiming cop here would be effectively autoloss" for Mafia. I only claimed so that CheekyTeeky could be confirmed before I get NKed or eliminated. I wanted to make sure that Town would be able to use PoE to eliminate Mafia, should Mafia survive to Day 4.

[RH9]

Prism is Town.
VOTE: MargotRosa

[RH9]

But CheekyTeeky and Prism are confirmed. I am Town Cop. So you're Mafia.

[RH9]

I was not roleblocked. You are lying.

[RH9]

I was trying to confirm my townreads. I had no scumreads, remember. I would live past d2 if the only person who tried to get me eliminated was Mafia.

[RH9]

No, Prism. You didn't. I did. I should have investigated MargotRosa instead of CheekyTeeky.

[RH9]

You can blame me if we lose. I didn't claim until Day 3.

[RH9]

No, Prism. You didn't. I did. I should have investigated MargotRosa instead of CheekyTeeky.

You should have investigated me basically every night since n1. The fact that you hadn't is weird. The fact that you are claiming every single read is Town is weird. How do you know the roles of 3 out of 4 players, all of whom are town, despite voting for me twice on d2 (the only person you voted twice on all game)?

Honestly, I wonder whether this whole play right now is safety in your mind, in case someone else is JK, so you have plausible deniability (If you didn't read me Scum, someone else blocks you tonight, you can claim you have been confounded at some point when you reach final elo tomorrow)

You don't have to stress. I am indeed JK, so you can just be honest and say you didn't get a read last night. This is elo

Ok, I'll be honest. I got Prism as Town on Night 3. I got CheekyTeeky as Town on Night 2. I got DaTacoX as Town on Night 1. I voted you twice, but when Connordragon07 flipped Mafia, I loosened my guard and instead voted the person who hammered him, CheekyTeeky. And I admit. I investigated DaTacoX because I thought that they were Mafia who deliberately propelled the wagon on RegRider. I investigated Prism because they suggested that I did that to them or you. CheekyTeeky and Prism, if we lose, you can definitely blame me for being a horrible Town Cop. And I was vague to give you claimspace. I now hate myself for not realising that I gave claimspace to the Mafia. I am never giving anybody claimspace again.

[RH9]

Actually, I take that back. I'll give people claimspace but not at the risk of letting Mafia claim Jailkeeper.

[RH9]

That was because the observations came too early. Connordragon07 posted too less for me to make proper observations. I did originally choose flow trap but switched at last minute because I remember that flow trap quit the wagon. flow trap, if they were Mafia, would have continued instead of jumping off to vote a person who nobody else followed him to vote for until he was replaced.

[RH9]

And flow trap, if you ever read this, I'm sorry. You were one of the best players in the game. You caught both Mafia. I should have investigated both of them, a long time ago.

[RH9]

That was also why I never investigated you. I always felt like Mafia wouldn't be one to start a failed wagon.

[RH9]

Actually, I take that back. I'll give people claimspace but not at the risk of letting Mafia claim Jailkeeper.

There's no situation in which you worry about giving claimspace to Mafia to claim Jailkeeper at any point in this game. This is genuinely insane.

Like, if I am Mafia, I kill you. This is because, if I am Mafia, I haven't left clues that I am JK, I don't have an actual set of night actions that I can point to that make sense.

I wish I was Scum, because if I was Scum, I would have so much easier a go of it trying to convince Cheeky that I am more Town than Prism in three-way ELO, rather than what I have to do right now, which is convince BOTH Cheeky and Prism that I am a JK so Town wins 4 way ELO.

I'm so mad with the way this game has played out, because this whole situation is really obvious if everyone steps back for two seconds, except for the fact that I am JK.

As in, the true circumstances make perfect sense. It seems fishy only because it's so odd that we managed to land in situation, and I am having to CC a cop one day after the hard role claim, two days after it was heavily implied, and after not posting d3.

Thanks for the admission. And no, you would fail to convince anybody but me that you're more Town than the others. And instead, you are stuck convincing two SEs that you're Jailkeeper so Town loses in a 4 way ELO. As Mafia, you wouldn't have killed and didn't kill me. You knew that I was the perfect scapegoat. And I understand, why you're mad. Catboi replaced flow trap and there goes your partner. This situation is obvious. There's a Town Cop, two Vanilla Townies claims who are confirmed to be Town by the Cop, and there's a Mafia who is claiming Jailkeeper and is mad.

[RH9]

Ok, how about this. Can you explain, in the world in which I am Scum, why I make any of the plays that Scum made in this game?

Sure! You killed DaTacoX because most other players townread them. You killed Catboi because he got your partner eliminated. You didn't kill me when I claimed Cop because you knew that you would eliminate me, especially since camelCasedSnivy caused their own elimination. Then, you could win.

[RH9]

To be fair, I was confused when DaTacoX was killed. I would have left him alive as a scapegoat, if I was Mafia. I would be like vote DaTacoX for propelling a mislim. I would never have guessed in a thousand years, that DaTacoX was Town. Until it was too late. Though, if Town loses because of me, I'm probably going to wish that I never confirmed three Town members instead of two Mafia.

[RH9]

Actually, I take that back. I'll give people claimspace but not at the risk of letting Mafia claim Jailkeeper.

There's no situation in which you worry about giving claimspace to Mafia to claim Jailkeeper at any point in this game. This is genuinely insane.

Like, if I am Mafia, I kill you. This is because, if I am Mafia, I haven't left clues that I am JK, I don't have an actual set of night actions that I can point to that make sense.

I wish I was Scum, because if I was Scum, I would have so much easier a go of it trying to convince Cheeky that I am more Town than Prism in three-way ELO, rather than what I have to do right now, which is convince BOTH Cheeky and Prism that I am a JK so Town wins 4 way ELO.

I'm so mad with the way this game has played out, because this whole situation is really obvious if everyone steps back for two seconds, except for the fact that I am JK.

As in, the true circumstances make perfect sense. It seems fishy only because it's so odd that we managed to land in situation, and I am having to CC a cop one day after the hard role claim, two days after it was heavily implied, and after not posting d3.

Thanks for the admission. And no, you would fail to convince anybody but me that you're more Town than the others. And instead, you are stuck convincing two SEs that you're Jailkeeper so Town loses in a 4 way ELO. As Mafia, you wouldn't have killed and didn't kill me. You knew that I was the perfect scapegoat. And I understand, why you're mad. Catboi replaced flow trap and there goes your partner. This situation is obvious. There's a Town Cop, two Vanilla Townies claims who are confirmed to be Town by the Cop, and there's a Mafia who is claiming Jailkeeper and is mad.

Yes, but if I was scum, I would have NKed you last night. I wouldn't have had to convince you, because you would be dead.

The only reason you are still alive is that I am Town, and not Scum.

You didn't kill me when I claimed Cop because you knew that you would eliminate me, especially since camelCasedSnivy caused their own elimination. Then, you could win.

But, in this fictional world in which I am Scum, I didn't eliminate you?? I intentionally left you alive so you could confirm every other slot as being Town, and then set about the uphill battle of arguing against you, and additionally convincing two slots that I am Town, rather than killing you, and only needing to convince one slot??

I am Town. The situation we find ourselves in does not happen if I am Scum.

This is exactly what I mean. By letting me live, it is easier for you to convince them that I'm Mafia while knowing that it would be easier to claim Jailkeeper, so that you can be the Town Hero for

"stopping"

the

Mafia

. And I do agree on one thing though. Now it is up to the confirmed Towns to decide the Town's fate. And to catboi and DaTacoX, if you ever read this, I honestly can't imagine a world where the

Jailkeeper claim

wasn't the one who caused your demise.

[RH9]

Dear Prism and CheekyTeeky,

I previously mentioned a

Jailkeeper claim

. And by

Jailkeeper claim

, I mean the one and only MargotRosa, who if you have paid attention, is the Mafia. And, there is only one world in which I'm what she says I am, the one where Prism is NKed on Night 2. But remember, catboi was the victim. Why, as Mafia, would I purposely confirm CheekyTeeky and Prism as Town? Because I want to pocket? There is only one world, where that happens and in that one, catboi is still alive. Prism is not. After all, Prism was my Town Leader. Who is better to NK than them? But, alas! This is not that world! The

Jailkeeper claim

, who we had trusted for so long, MargotRosa, has betrayed us. She is the last Mafia. I am the Town Cop. Prism, you claimed VT as did you, CheekyTeeky. I have confirmed that both of you were Town. I was

NEVER EVER

roleblocked. There is no

Jailkeeper

. There is only a

Don Carleone

, and she is trying to trick you. MargotRosa is the last Mafia.

Thank you and yours faithfully,
RH9

[RH9]

And Prism, feel free to interrogate me.

[RH9]

I was giving her claimspace because I didn't want to restrict her claimspace. I gave the suggestion that she could be Rolecop because I felt like announcing that I knew she was either Roleblocker or Goon, was too mean and outted myself.

[RH9]

And I'm going to be busy for the next 2 hours so see you later.

[RH9]

I was told Prism is Town, you (CheekyTeeky) are Town, and DaTacoX is Town.

[RH9]

I'm busy now. See you in 2 hours.

[RH9]

I only realised in the end that my PR hunt was useless. And I actually believed MargotRosa was Town until Day 4, through PoE. And GG.

[RH9]

And is it common for Cop to only find Town.

[RH9]

I was convinced the Mafia must have bussed or miseliminated.

[RH9]

To be fair, that theory only ever applied to Connordragon07. MargotRosa never bussed nor miseliminated. And really, if Mafia hadn't NKed catboi, I would have investigated them, followed by Prism, and then followed by you for miseliminating, and finally MargotRosa. It turned out horribly because I never realised that Mafia could be so smart and not bus or miseliminate. And really, now, I know that I should be watching out for things other than bussing and miseliminating.

[RH9]

You also put a lot of stock in the reports on myself in Cheeky. This is a correct logical process that leads to the right conclusion, but I don't want to make sure you don't miss another way to realize Margot was scum that last day: JK and cop simply can't coexist in this open setup, therefore she was scum by default in two different ways with the knowledge you had.

To be fair, I kind of noticed but I thought that she could argue back that I was Mafia because Cop is way easier to fake than Jailkeeper. I was actually surprised when she claimed Jailkeeper instead of Doctor, which would make sense as she could say that she saved CheekyTeeky. I thought that if she claimed Doctor, she could go on about finally protecting somebody. To be fair, I feel like she did a good job claiming a role which would not coexist with Cop. I feel like that if I was Mafia, I would have definitely claimed a easily fakeclaimable role like Doctor which can be easily justified and produce fake information for. Also, I did find it a good effort on her part in claiming that I was roleblocked when she could easily have said that she protected CheekyTeeky. And really, 'protecting' would imply that she is either Doctor or Jailkeeper. I feel like she did such a good job that I only realised the truth in Day 4, through PoE. And really is Jailkeeper basically Combined Doctor Roleblocker?

[RH9]

So for the cop role specifically RH9, I want to say that:

1) You were right to wait until Day 3 to claim. Since your N1 report was dead, there was no point in outing Day 2.
2) It is normal to hit town-they're more frequent! Investigating your scumreads is typically the best idea, though clear-searching exceptions exist. If you're doing that you have nothing to apologize for-focusing on why your read was right or wrong is the best way to handle it.

To be fair, the main reason I ended up claiming was because I realised that with one Mafia left, I could help Town find Mafia via PoE. And I basically had no scumreads for the whole game. It was basically mostly townreads with some being nullreads. That was why I started investigating my townreads. My only nullreads were flow trap, Connordragon07, DaTacoX, by the way. The only thing was flow trap was replaced by catboi, DaTacoX was NKed, and Connordragon07 was eliminated. And then catboi, who I ended up townreading, got NKed. And when DaTacoX was NKed, I was worried because it would be awkward to tell everybody that a NKed player was Town, when everybody could know this from reading the mod scene.

[RH9]

There's more town than mafia, so it's not like not getting a guilty investigation is all that uncommon. I think your targets could have been better, although that's easy to say with hindsight. Getting clears isn't all bad, even, but when there's only one mafia left you want to check someone who is a potential suspect, because even if they're not guilty you can ensure town won't waste an elimination on them.

I was convinced the Mafia must have bussed or miseliminated.

Well, why did you think that? A mafia teammate bussing connor in that situation would have been highly risky. In particular, cheeky hammering him without a claim was risking being put into autoloss.

Mafia could have bussed earlier like start the wagon, which Connordragon07 did. That was why when you were NKed and CheekyTeeky was confirmed Town, I was confused. Then, I investigated Prism and confirmed them as Town. It was only then that I realised that the last Mafia didn't bus nor miseliminate. And really, that was why I took forever to catch Mafia. MargotRosa definitely had me convinced because I never would have imagined that Mafia would deliberately not leave obvious scumtells.

[RH9]

The difficulty with claiming doctor, and why it would have been even more advantageous to town, is that it does two things simultaneously:

1) Confirms you as real, as there is no setup with only a doctor
2) Gives you a report as there was no roleblocker, which as you saw directly led to her being mafia by default.

She had to either kill you or cc you, there was no way around it.

(She could have claimed doctor AND killed you, claiming roleblocked, but this would have again resulted in going against me. The whole point of her JK claim was to go against you, and there was mechanically no way to keep both of us in the mix with the way claims were sorted.)

Oh, I see. She was forced into either claiming Jailkeeper, or to counterclaim one of us. I guess that she could have claimed Doctor, killed me and say that you were the Mafia Roleblocker. Or she could have claimed VT, killed me, and say that you were Mafia Goon. I guessed that luck wasn't in her favour because due to me confirming CheekyTeeky, she had to get either you or me eliminated and convince CheekyTeeky. To be fair, I almost investigatec her on Night 2 but ended up deciding to investigate CheekyTeeky. I also considered investigating catboi. To be fair, the only person who I never considered investigating at any point before Day 3 was camelCasedSnivy. Had they not self-voted, I might have investigated them after you.

[RH9]

To be fair, I feel like since CheekyTeeky was already confirmed by me, it would impossible to counterclaim them. And I just remembered, I almost investigated you twice. The first time, I switched to flow trap and then to DaTacoX. The second time, I switched to CheekyTeeky. And I just realised that I almost got you eliminated on Day 2 and Day 3, if I hadn't switched. And that is why I ended up with knowing that three people were confirmed Town.