Slaughter Hour: Grand Debut | Deliberation Room Blue

[petapan]

Is it wrong to think that I don't think Toog is any more or less cleared lol

i don't think any of that is remotely clearing

[petapan]

i

have absolutely no clue who i want to nominate though

[petapan]

I'm Blue da ba dee da ba daa
Da ba dee da ba daa

second spin from dunn was kinda weird in the duel, like, why would you re-randomize the random? Think we haven't been told all the info but whatever really

it was weird, i think it was trying to offload the risk? but using the spin there isn't really optimal, i would have told him to shoot at toog

[petapan]

btw cakez - you were absolutely right about dunn being in scum meta, although the reason i reversed on him was a little different

i was giving him too much credit for posts i remembered in the moment and on a reread of the iso he scumclaimed, not going to explain it here, might tell you in post

[petapan]

wdym by "offload the risk"?

first one to shoot risks dying, i dunno, if he waits he gets a trigger pull that has a higher chance of killing toog

if both sides play optimally the expected winrate for the game is 50/50 but there's a chance the first shooter can misplay it

[petapan]

also, i re-read the duel, and like, does dunn really bother to make that big wall of text only to randomize it all if they were both stagehands?

pedit : neat

i

don't see why he wouldn't


like if we actually got dueling scum wagons they'd be obligated to theater it up - him asking toog what his read on him was odd


this is purely hypothetical i'm not keen on going back to the well with toogeloo but the immediate impulse to clear him isn't a good one based on available evidence

but i'll go over everyone individually

[petapan]

most of the stuff i had from his iso was relevant to people in this room unfortunately

while going through i noticed this, though:

2276
2279

first glance, surface level read is this is a good look for skitter given him popping off at the fos from her?

[petapan]

dwlee i just

do not think they bus dunn in that manner at all

i haven't reread the iso to check yet

[petapan]

i feel like the toog flip is the best for INFORMATION but that's so lame

i was going to say if it's T/S voting toog isn't necessarily clearing because scum will want to be on the right side of history and there's a decent chance he doesn't die. but that's also true if S/S

[petapan]

most of the stuff i had from his iso was relevant to people in this room unfortunately

while going through i noticed this, though:

2276
2279

first glance, surface level read is this is a good look for skitter given him popping off at the fos from her?

what's noticeable about 2279?

skitter casually mentions dunn's vote on gamma was bad, he pops in to defend himself over it and shades her for it

[petapan]

i forgot there was that brief attempt to flashwagon dunn on day 1

[petapan]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13038098

dwlee/toog would be maniacs to bus there, although granted there wasn't a guarantee it'd go through


it'd be incredibly poor scumplay but some people do dumb things


i still think i probably just rule them out for now

[petapan]

additionally i don't see how Dwlee's vote on Dunn is guaranteed to not be a bus, he didn't even seem to really like sticking to it

This is not even remotely true, Dwlee wanted Dunn since like post #72 of their ISO

I pointed it out

ya but like, as the dunn case gained traction, he looks to me like he was trying to steer things away?

granted i might be completely wrong, don't think he needs to take the axe now anyways

dwlee was asking for votes on toog so there would be a hammer because they wanted the phase to be over

i obliged because i knew we could get dunn in the duel and he was the far far far far far stronger scumread

[petapan]

ulyana is like, i've liked the way she has been approaching the game and on a gut level it feels good, still being skeptical of gamma after the chair felt organic

but there's nothing necessarily clearing

[petapan]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13031324

i hate this from infinity lol

[petapan]

I feel like another thing about Infinity is that she's so willing to be convinced

I remember we got into a squabble and she went 'uh yeah I guess that's true' basically. Just very much a people pleaser but I don't know if I fully trust my read

Would like feedback

i don't remember her being like that this game really but i'd need to check


i feel like if she was bussing she'd actually give more reasons but i dunno

[petapan]

I feel like another thing about Infinity is that she's so willing to be convinced

I remember we got into a squabble and she went 'uh yeah I guess that's true' basically. Just very much a people pleaser but I don't know if I fully trust my read

Would like feedback

pretty sure that's just how she is

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13031324

i hate this from infinity lol

why?

something of the feel of early game distancing

like this was the dunn vote in question: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13031266

and she says that's suspect? it's such a weird thing

[petapan]

infinity's vote on Gx might be a scum move actually of not knowing where to push

[petapan]

cakez is going to be insufferable if he had multiple correct reads that i was shielding

[petapan]

skitter is like, there was a lot of tension between her and dunn, which is good

but she didn't really bury him and that bothers me

on a sheer gut level she doesn't feel like scum but i dunno. i don't think i go after her now but i don't want to clear her for it



taly's stance on dunn is kind of

all over the place and it's not great

[petapan]

oh, i should add, because this is important:

I asked Tweet when scum chose when the bullet would be loaded in the gun, and the only answer she gave was that it was before she made the announcement

this is worth considering with regard to stuff from that phase because i think it's likely, but not certain they had to do so before the hammer

[petapan]

and with regard to the groups being split up:

there is no guarantee that there has to be one scum in a group but i think particularly in large games there's always one scum that busses on an early scum wagon

this is somewhat shakier because dunn was majority'd but i do believe there is probably a red team member to be found in that other group

[petapan]

I feel like another thing about Infinity is that she's so willing to be convinced

I remember we got into a squabble and she went 'uh yeah I guess that's true' basically. Just very much a people pleaser but I don't know if I fully trust my read

Would like feedback

pretty sure that's just how she is

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13031324

i hate this from infinity lol

why?

something of the feel of early game distancing

like this was the dunn vote in question: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13031266

and she says that's suspect? it's such a weird thing

eh it was still technically RVS I think?

it was a serious vote

and i think the cliche scumtell of RVS distancing is actually somewhat of a thing in the sense that scum are likely to be overly conscious of their teammates' posting early on

[petapan]

oh, i should add, because this is important:

I asked Tweet when scum chose when the bullet would be loaded in the gun, and the only answer she gave was that it was before she made the announcement

this is worth considering with regard to stuff from that phase because i think it's likely, but not certain they had to do so before the hammer

i mean...

it's not like toog hammered / dunn runner up is something that came completely out of the blue right?

and even then, we litterally don't know where scum put the bullet, so it's not like there's anything possible to take away from that fact

eh i tihnk it being quickhammered is at least kind of relevant in combination with the dunn theatrics

maybe i'm just spouting off nonsense because it's 3 AM yet it feels somehow relevant, like i feel like if they had known about it maybe they set it up to be more favorable

hypothetically if it's town/scum, even if dunn just shoots toog in the face and it's obvious TMI they still get rid of town and we have to waste another phase on getting rid of dunn

[petapan]

god seeing skitter on unwnd in that votecount is just

ugh

[petapan]

y'all, idg why we're trying to guess at alignment distributions when there's a clear connection here I'm pretty sure

i'm not trying to guess i'm saying there's likely to be scum in the other group you just have to suss it out

[petapan]

dwlee
toog


taly
skitter


ulyana/infinity


i think i've soured on ulyana considerably

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Does someone have a meta-take?

dunnstral has felt more or less like this to me as both alignments

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

so you'd default to gamma being exempt from duel to determine after if we've received benefit?

hm, i think this makes some sense, though if gamma is a scums that leaves only 3 for us to hit 2 within with other choices

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I think Ydrasse as mafia will start the game off strong but over time lose drive, and then you realize their posting is just fluffy but not filled with very hard analysis

do you think this description of your expectation of scum!ydrasse lines up with taly’s play this game? and would you have a similar expectation of scum!taly?

she gives almost no consideration of dunn at all and the questions are soft


but also looking at the iso again i fel like she's just not going anywhere with the stuff she's asking and there's not much that's clearing relative to other people

[petapan]

i feel like i need to do homework on shiki with regard to interaction patterns but might want to go there


it's late though i desperately need to force myself to sleep

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

That's what was current when I was in thread and Ulyana is one of my only townreads in this game. I didn't like the push there.

gghghgnhghghg

would he really

[petapan]

cakez is going to be insufferable if he had multiple correct reads that i was shielding

You called my reasoning for scumreading Dunn weasel shit and it was right!!!!!!

to be clear

what i thought was weaselly was you saying he was the best flip because it would be more informative or give us more to work off. not your reasons for scumreading him


and i maintain the tendency to vote based on what you will think is informative is bad form


someone is a good vote if they are scummy, which he was, i just was missing things because when i'm focused on in the moment play i miss certain things

[petapan]

after sleeping on it i think right now it's best to take the interactions between skitter and dunn at face value and assume the tensions between them were not manufactured

i'd re-evaluate down the line if we come up empty on other flips but for now i'm okay with believing it's a simple answer

[petapan]

epic

dunn was scum when he didn’t spin the barrel and started larping as the guy from princess diaries lol

when it's online it's not larping. it's just roleplaying.

this post brought to you by totally necessary pedantry

[petapan]

i'm reading shiki's scum games and


by volume she'd be absolutely blowing away any other game she's had

i know that's a fallible metric but gah

[petapan]

it may possibly just be that she's adopted a wildly different playstyle for this account, looking at her other games, and i shouldn't try to read too much into comparisons

[petapan]

i mean, we could probably discuss ulnaya once all reunited right? Having half the game missing isn't really helping, especially when one of those guys is the accused party

i


we have to pick someone now and i'm trying to sort through that

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

like everyone slightly moving the second duelist while not really making it clear they are is suspicious yeah? and how everyone is ignoring what happened last night from toog unwnd vote on is very very confusing

what is it you want to be acknowledged

toog votes unwnd to e-2 when toog is the most likely other duelist, then unwnd selfvotes to e-1 when toog/unwnd would be the duelists, then gamma moves the second duelist off of toogeloo while asking unwnd who second duelist should be?? which just doesn't make any sense when we are trying to have two mafias in the duel,

like it just doesn't feel like town behaviour from any of them?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

well i see what you're saying but i don't think they're all scum doing that. their actions being irrational don't necessarily mean they're scum motivated

nono i agree that it is somewhat unlikely all three are mafia together but two seems possible, and it feels like it should be something that is potentially sortable and it felt like everyone going on with day

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

like it just doesn't feel like town behaviour from any of them?

i don't really see how this is scummy from toog or unwnd and gamma is close to locktown to me anyway though i do think that behavior was anti-town from him

i didn't realize saber was now the second biggest vote-getter now so sorry

why would a town be rushing a duel that included them? like i could theorize information that mafia could potentially have that would make it make sense? but i can't really think of a town motivation for it,

nvm she's scummy

[petapan]

gypyx do you even have an opinion on who you want to nominate

[petapan]

i'm more inclined towards infinity

why

[petapan]

Who is shiki

ulyana

[petapan]

i have zero desire to go back to the well on toog atm

[petapan]

- convincing case

whose case and why is it convincing

[petapan]

also i don't get why we should have any consideration for what the other side will think about our nomination, just vote who you think is scum!!!!!!!! fuck!!!!!!!!!

[petapan]

i just had an awful thought


we're playing tenet but can't even read the other thread and have to vote on them and not each other



i hate it here now

[petapan]

i have zero desire to go back to the well on toog atm

What changed

i just

hm

it feels lazy? like let's just nominate the lurker troll again

where i think with the flip it's more important to go over people with a more critical eye

[petapan]

i think toog voting on dunn day 1 is at least okay


even though as mafia i'd absolutely want a teammate voted into the chair. don't get the sense that was the strategy here

[petapan]

also as far as the nomination goes we don't know if it'll be one or the other or if we have to decide to kill both or what

the second minigame was difficult for town to win if pitted against scum, it would have been extremely hard to manipulate the votes in a way to get 2 scum into the duel but the move was just

vote for who you think was scum and hope it works out

that's all we can do

[petapan]

i know ydrasse meant the princess bride but i'm going to choose to believe she meant this guy instead



can't believe he found a way to make anne hathaway hot

[petapan]

nvm she's scummy

what's wrong with that string of posts
while I don't feel like she should have been all "grrr you're bad for trying to shift momentum" that kinda feel like a town concern, plus like, the optics just seem generally jank to the point I don't think she sticks her neck out there as scum
also if you think ulyana is scum what do you make of her FoSing infinity for (I think unintentionally) shifting the secondary-wagon momentum?

because in my view it looks like attacking a bunch of people who are likely town for not great reasons

[petapan]

mostly i'm just not sure there's much in the way of good faith sorting from ulyana

[petapan]

peta did you ever post your reasons why dunn was scum?

no because it wasn't necessary to get him voted and it was actually a super-specific meta thing i don't want to out

[petapan]

that's not really what i mean i just mean "does this person look like town trying to figure things out"

[petapan]

most basic of background checks says i was being overly charitable to taly and need to look him over again with fresh eyes because the trajectory on dunn raises my eyebrows

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I believe Gamma is at L2.

Let's please keep in mind of the, state L1 and intention to hammer before EoD occurs, if it does.

would also be nice to leash gamma emerald to eliminate someone who is not me if the throne is a kingmaker type deal on account of this entire push feeling like it might be preemptively designed to explain him doing so

what in the everliving fuck

[petapan]

i don't think taly/ulyana are s/s based on taly fosing both ulyana and dunn early although that's kind of a hipfire read


i want to highlight key interactions and maybe even do iso commentary when i have the time

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I don't receive much from your posts to be honest. Some of your opinions and ideas come from a mindset that seems more survivalistic than solving.

okay well i'm town who would like to play future minigames and am not particularly strong at solving without information and currently your method of sorting me is flipping me so maybe try something else

actually kind of like this even though anyone can post that sort of thing, seen while going through skitter

[petapan]

Spoiler: skitter/dunn stuff

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Anyway just pick a name from there and I'll probably vote. If it's a question mark you'll need to give me processing time

Why “processing time”? And out of those names the ones I like best for scum are Cephrir and Dunnstral.
VOTE: Dunnstral
I’ll get things started.

Why ... are you voting dunn over ceph here ...

included for completeness's sake. i don't think this is bad but don't want to be seen as omitting things

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

like let's say this chair thing is something good.

and Gamma is trying to get into the chair because he's a stagehand and he knows the chair is good.[Theory]

Dunnstral is saying the theory is incorrect because Gamma could've just voted himself into the chair but Gamma didn't - hence he can't be a stagehand who wants to get into the chair. [Theory is wrong]

This completely ignores the fact that if Gamma were to vote himself into the chair, and it was something good, Gamma would look hella susp for it, aka the rest of the game when maybe we get a chance to kill him.

So it's not as simple as Dunnstral is making it.

Dunnstral is like

good

at mech, so he should recognize this, but he simplifies it.

That feels informed to me.

Also he ignored Gamma's vote on him completely and chooses to comment on this part without really commenting on actual relevant shit.

i read this like three times and i'm not sure i get this, i'm sorry >.>
can u try to say this again?

agree with the bolded tho

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

more broadly since we're at a pretty game-critical point, i prefer galron over gamma. i think they can be svs, but i do think galron is almost certainly s and would prefer him
i'm very underwhelmed by dunn but don't know if that ai for him, also think it would be a disappointing way to end the day if we ended up flipping him while we have this gamma/galron thing going on

hopefully i'll be able to say more abt this later

pedit i'll come back to that one too

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

peta's jealous that he has to post content to be townread tbh

i have actually gotten townread for not efforting, me doing that is actually strongly town indicative because i'm a massve tryhard as scum but most people don't understand that

anyway

VOTE: ydrasse

ydra is good there too.
i saw that there were votes for dunn and infinity. would be fine with dunn, don't really want infinity in it

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Did Galron/Ydrasse read the event rules? It's clearly described as a duel to the death involving a gun, why vote yourselves in?

given that we don't know what the events actually,well, are, i'm kinda suspicious of people who intentionally seem to want access to them

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

pooky also had a really good tmi-based scumread on dunn in silent star 3

What did I tmi?

I already explained that people misinterpreted what I wrote, and that it was a response to somebody else

also u
ur just popping in to relitigate things from a billion years ago
do u have any reads for rn wrt how we should handle today?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Is relitigate some kind of buzzword that doesn't mean anything now?

My reads for today is what Ulyana just said in 2202, which I kind of hinted that that is where I was leaning, but wondering why other people thought otherwise

so who are the two scumz you want to get in?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I don't know, and that isn't related to whether I'm "relitigating" stuff or not, so I'm not sure I want to follow you smoothly changing the topic of discussion

the two things are directly related: i'm critiquing that all you seem to be talking about is this setup stuff when you can be talking abt game-relevant and helpful things like who we should be having duel today

and why don't you know, and when do you think you will? that's kinda my point, like why don't you have reads and when will you

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.

so you'd default to gamma being exempt from duel to determine after if we've received benefit?

hm, i think this makes some sense, though if gamma is a scums that leaves only 3 for us to hit 2 within with other choices

Putting my thoughts on gamma aside:

If we wanted to eliminate him, we had a chance to do so. We didn't take it. It's nonsense to try to eliminate him again using a seperate game mechanic, it would mean we wasted power

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

what no?
that logic doesn't make any sense @dunn

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

If you don't feel particularly convinced about Cakez skitter you could weigh in on the other subjects on Gamma's wagon for me

you and dunn are the worst of it

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

If you don't feel particularly convinced about Cakez skitter you could weigh in on the other subjects on Gamma's wagon for me

it is weird that you are weighting the gamma wagon towards scum when a) your slot was on the wagon and more importantly b) your slot was the opposing wagon

yeah i was thinkign this too
i'm not sure why gamma's wagon is the focus and not galron's

Galron's wagon during that phase is not important as the one that is happening on him right now. I don't really enjoy looking backwards unless it's to reference something. My read on Cakez is a short dive and I plan to mostly continue to do the same.

so why are you going backwards to focus on gamma instead of the wagon on u rn
also dunn's defense is awful, why would it indicate he's town here ... ?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

This does not feel similar to scum Dunn who is just watching the town undo themselves while making strong observational points that get him townread. It's not a strong read but I'm purely instinctive right now

tbf i actually don't know his meta or particularly what his scumgame looks like
but he's basically sitting on the sidelines making random mechanical observations and i think that's scummy

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

My vote on Gamma wasn't nearly "the worst", nor is it even particularly ai, arguably. Trying to paint this as me having a substantial say in what happened when it was pretty much decided already without any input from me is a bad look.

don't like you arguing that this vote was arguably nai

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Why is me voting Gamma scummy?

- were u even scumreading him prior to the vote
- i'm taking issue with the fact that ur calling it nai, its like absolving yourself of any of thr connotations of the vote

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

still though, i think that logic applies in the abstract whether or not you've seen someone's meta

i'm sort of wondering where else you're looking if not to dwlee (and maybe me) but then again unwnd hasn't really towntold yet

for the first point: strongly disagree, i think it very much depends on someone's meta and how they're likely to play the game
second point: dwlee/unwnd/dunn maybe ydra maybe maybe you

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Well it feels like we have been talking in circles for several 10's of pages

Uh i would say tonight decidedly does not feel like that actually

Do u habe any thoughts on any of this unwnd - ydra - cakez thing?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

i would put dunn instead of cakez yeah
i don't think i want infinity there

on net i don't think this feels like a bus, the repeated callouts of dunn are actually highly unnecessary and his responses to her don't feel partnery

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I don't receive much from your posts to be honest. Some of your opinions and ideas come from a mindset that seems more survivalistic than solving.

okay well i'm town who would like to play future minigames and am not particularly strong at solving without information and currently your method of sorting me is flipping me so maybe try something else

actually kind of like this even though anyone can post that sort of thing, seen while going through skitter

i'd say that both alignements want equally to survive the game (maybe scum a bit more) so like, what's likeable about that?

are you just going to devil's advocate every goddamn thing i say

[petapan]

sorry i misremembered, gamma was the one doubting when i was calling ulyana scummy earlier i just assumed you were being a contrarian on everything

like yes okay i litearally said anyone can give that response but the overall delivery and response there feels more likely to be town than scum

not just that she wants to survive but the annoyance that taly is only calling for her flip and nothing else feels more like a concern town would have it's not necessarily looking to talk him out of the read or discredit him just telling him to back off

[petapan]

this is incredibly annoying to deal with because while i like picking through evidence and get better reads from backreading it's harder for me to operate without the ability to apply pressure

[petapan]

can you link to that stuff

[petapan]

i should add we're bound by the same bullcrap antitown synced deadline rules as tenet and without even the ability to see what is going on in the other thread


don't put anyone in hammer range yet, i want no chances taken

[petapan]

can you link to that stuff

the stuff I liked, the work I put in the sort her, or both?

the stuff about working with her and liking what you saw

[petapan]

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Nah, I actually have several more changes I'd make with Gamma's list, I just only said those.

hm, why did that one seem not important to mention? i am wondering because it is very very much not in line with any of your posted views towards cakez as far as i can tell

Because 1960 is something I really want

Cakez

to respond to and I don't want other posts I make about him to influence how he answers.

UNVOTE:

I read it wrong.

I presume you have tangible reads based off the events though. No strong vote anywhere?

i don't know honestly

i can see town and scum trying to nitpick how taly handled that list, you know? like it's possible to be legitimate inquiry but also something scum pounces on as an inconsistency

i gtg don't have time to look in detail

[petapan]

was too tired last night and this thread was inactive but i'll go over taly/dunn stuff now

should say in advance, don't take this as the be all end all because town can have weird interactions with scum, need to take the body of work into account, just want this observed for the sake of completeness

early interaction stuff with dunn, doesn't mean a whole lot to me

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Or, you could be town with a motive closer to mine in similarity.

And your motive is what?

Hint: How does town win this game?

I just love to play with my hand close to the fire.

We should proceed as if whoever we are voting for will die

And if they don't die, we can do something different with the rest of the day

I'll concede if the majority agrees with this approach, but I'd rather not to.

the "come talk to me" is a little weird here

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

VOTE: prism based on page six

Be more specific. If you are right, you can do better than this.

the way you're acting makes me feel uneasy it's very...unnatural
but also if it's a Kingmaker somehow I'd feel good about you having it in the case you are town

What if it is kingmaker and they are scum?
Your reasoning doesn't add up here

VOTE: Sircakez

would more gifs, music videos, and anime references get you to come talk to meeeee?~

disagreeing over whether or not to state intent to hammer, nothing much imo

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I believe Gamma is at L2.

Let's please keep in mind of the, state L1 and intention to hammer before EoD occurs, if it does.

would also be nice to leash gamma emerald to eliminate someone who is not me if the throne is a kingmaker type deal on account of this entire push feeling like it might be preemptively designed to explain him doing so

I agree with leashing him in some form.... everything after the "who" part is where you lost me.

I believe Gamma is at L2.

Let's please keep in mind of the, state L1 and intention to hammer before EoD occurs, if it does.

There are no power roles so there's no real reason to do this

I disagree. What if someone had a thought or question they wanted to get out before EoD? I mean, it's unrealistic to have everybody approve of when to end the day

But I've certainly seen many votes reach capacity before I was ready for EoD and they don't historically play out to my preference.

I voice this out of courtesy.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Dunn quickwagon pinged.

answering pooky calling out dunn

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Gamma had an opportunity to vote himself into the chair though.

So the theory that they are playing to get into the chair is probably incorrect regardless (though that doesn't necessarily make him town because the chair isn't necessarily or even likely to be good)

I hate this from Dunnstral

100 points for anyone who can figure out why I hate this

Dunn

presumes that scum-

Gamma

would want the chair and therefore could be informed?

this is still late day 1
Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I want to flip Uly and Dunn now.

grilling dunn about gamme

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

What happened to the multiple people who were willing to hammer Gamma?

Gamma had an opportunity to vote himself into the chair though.

So the theory that they are playing to get into the chair is probably incorrect regardless (though that doesn't necessarily make him town because the chair isn't necessarily or even likely to be good)

I hate this from Dunnstral

100 points for anyone who can figure out why I hate this

Dunn

presumes that scum-

Gamma

would want the chair and therefore could be informed?

I'm not presuming anything, I'm responding to the idea that scum gamma was trying to get into the chair. I'm pointing out that he had a chance to get into the chair if he wanted to.

Then your confusion with

Gamma

not getting flipped perplexes me even further. What even is your read of the slot and why were you interested in ending this event phase quickly?

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I'm not sure what you're getting at but I never said any of that.

Then why was it painful to call attention to the vote counter? I'm trying to understand the benefit to a quicker elimination on

Gamma

was.

I don't receive much from your posts to be honest. Some of your opinions and ideas come from a mindset that seems more survivalistic than solving.

okay well i'm town who would like to play future minigames and am not particularly strong at solving without information and currently your method of sorting me is flipping me so maybe try something else

This is exactly my point.

You expect me to know your alignment to be town but that is unclear. Don't you think it's more productive for you to tell me your current POV of the game even if you're not confident in it?

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I believe Gamma is at L2.

Let's please keep in mind of the, state L1 and intention to hammer before EoD occurs, if it does.

would also be nice to leash gamma emerald to eliminate someone who is not me if the throne is a kingmaker type deal on account of this entire push feeling like it might be preemptively designed to explain him doing so

I agree with leashing him in some form.... everything after the "who" part is where you lost me.

I believe Gamma is at L2.

Let's please keep in mind of the, state L1 and intention to hammer before EoD occurs, if it does.

There are no power roles so there's no real reason to do this

I disagree. What if someone had a thought or question they wanted to get out before EoD? I mean, it's unrealistic to have everybody approve of when to end the day

But I've certainly seen many votes reach capacity before I was ready for EoD and they don't historically play out to my preference.

I voice this out of courtesy.

Not every mafia game needs to be painful

Then what was this post aimed at? Not my reply?

(stylistically i don't like the way he addresses ulyana in 1480 but i've seen town players talk that way)

this is maybe letting him off a little easy?

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Then what was this post aimed at? Not my reply?

No that wasn't aimed at you, it was aimed at Prism and Gamma.

All right then!

Then, a real time day later, Dunn is LHF?
Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Dunn

is a good person to chair imo but it's partially why he's been so absent. I don't think I'd get much from his flip. He feels LHF. Does someone have a meta-take?

using nka is kind of flaky to me but i don't necessarily think it's bad

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Outside of

Gamma V Galron

,

Pooky

directed majority of his attention, more so EoD, to

Saber/Dunn/Peta

. I think that contributed to his NK.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

We won't know the benefit.

Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo

I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus

I'd drop

Peta, Ydra, and Dunn

all down a tier.

the push on dunn here is

okay

looking but...there's not a lot behind it, no strong rationale, and that concerns me

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Want to join my cause,

Galron

?

Your cause of pressuring Cakez?

Voting Dunn

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Want to join my cause,

Galron

?

Your cause of pressuring Cakez?

Voting Dunn

Why do you prefe Dunnstral over Cakez?

I think

Pooky

had a good read on him in that post you quoted not long ago, and I'm currently deliberating on my read with

SirCakez

as his recent posts haven't pinged me.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Haha. I want

Dunn and Peta

to be the duelists.

like he dumped a wall on me 7 posts after this but with dunn there was never a lot behind it

Spoiler:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I'm mindmelding strongly with

Saber

. I think it's best I lean in and refrain from suspicion here. I did notice that she hasn't touched my recent posts on her.

I think I'd prefer

peta

over

Dunn

at the moment. I did not like his interaction with

Galron

at all.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Also, I have absolutely no clue if

Dunn

is reading this game beyond every two or third post that mentions him.

This isn't a slight at all, I just can't feel compelled to think he's town because he's returned to the exact same conversations as the previous game phases, and has added no additional content. The coasting feels scummy because it has worked in his favor.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I don't know how to read taly with meta*

I don't want to give you self-meta unless you ask for it. But otherwise, how can I help you read me better?

--

skitter

Am I tunneled on

peta

? I feel like their reaction my suspicion of then has just been dismissive and I don't like their complacency with voteparking on

ydra

.

I don't want meta, I want to figure things out from this game

I love that plan, man.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Dunn

feels closer to town than earlier this phase. But I just don't like the taste of two scumreads I pushed on relatively lukewarm slots to diminish so quickly.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

the not taking initiative on dunn until skitter tells him to is...something

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Dunn

is stiff and someone I want to see an event result around to read better.

this is such a

weird

statement. "stiff" is an odd wording, "want to see an event result around" is...contrived? honestly feels like an unnatural thought



none of this is impossible to come from town, but the way the read seemed to kind of waver is kind of how i'd expect a teammate who is trying to go deep would read him, you know?


like i said though, overall body of work hasn't bothered me but it's mostly been a case of "yeah looks the part" and i haven't dug deeper

[petapan]

rereading ulyana's iso again and not sure i see it

putting my hands on my head and my elbows on my desk

[petapan]

idk if i said this before but like

you called voting toog lazy but also it feels like going over everyone else in that neighborhood is hair pull inducing

isn’t it... overthinking/thinking yourself into a “smarter” decision to not just throw up toog again

dwelling on the lack of sabotage i kind of just ...

i’ll preface this with this is all gut minimal backreading because energy low and used for other things,

1) was the scum pt open? if not i think toog saying “spin the barrel for town cred” is a... pretty sincere statement made to a partner.
2) the lack of sabotage is kind of telling? in conjunction with dunn not spinning and doing his dramatics, if both parties know where the bullet is, he’s free to pull that stunt and then uh. toog can spin or he can and it’s a little extra flourish to make him look townier if he lives because realistically one of them has to die. idk if this means anything but maybe also they just didn’t want to waste a sabotage on /this/ event, but it feels notable.
3) some part of me thinks that toog was playing the straight man to dunn’s flamboyance; two different approaches to a townread.

i dunno

i want to flip him at some point because it's impossible to townread that but i don't know if going back there is the right move but if on review everyone else seems like a bad choice then i can go for it i guess

[petapan]

i think lack of sabotage speculation isn't that useful because we don't know what the sabotage would do and at any rate it was apparent dunn wasn't endgaming, i think it's likely teammates were positioning themselves around him for the possibility he'd flip, even if they could buy him an extra phase with the sabotage, what does that do?

[petapan]

i’m having troubles seeing other people as stagehands in the other group too which is .. >_> not good for my paranoia here

(unwnd saying me/him/peta/cakez had a towny moment to forge a townblock)
(peta not outting the reasons for dunn-push)

etc

i mean

do you think i have trouble faking reasoning as scum? especially for a bus? jfc ydrasse lmao

even if i were to say it now it'd be post hoc justification that would be absolutely meaningless, certainly wouldn't give any reason to trust me

[petapan]

Like how can you not look at Dunnstral's literal princess bride ode and think 'this is a genuine interaction to be townread' because like. If it is TvS then why does Dunnstral take random choice and shoot at himself lol

it wasn't random chance though, he knew he wasn't dying

[petapan]

meanwhile, on infinity:

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

VOTE: dunn pooky feels towny to me i don't like that vote

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

hi cakez

i agree with dunn's approach. i think any other approach involves some form of mod WIFOM that's probably not great to get into

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

Dunn is your pooky vote serious? if so why

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

VOTE: galron cause i don't like either of the other wagons, tbf i'm terrible at reading dunn but the fact that he's getting wagoned d1 is probably +town

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

like maybe the scumteam is dunn/galron/ydrasse/ceph but probably not right

idk who i should be looking at that i'm not

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

hmm

VOTE: gypyx

i feel like gamma being town makes prism slot a lot more likely to be scum

this or ydrasse are my favorite votes atm

other thoughts:

i think cakez is decently towny

i've liked dunn's posting so far but pooky scumread him and pooky also had a really good tmi-based scumread on dunn in silent star 3

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

To relitigate:

Somebody said that Gamma was trying to get into the chair
I said that they already had a chance to get into the chair if they wanted to
Somebody said that they wouldn't self vote into the chair because they wanted to look town

Even if point 3 is correct, that doesn't make anything tmi (or even wrong... the first point never said anything about looking town, the third point expanded on assumptions that were unsaid

this is fair

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

i agree with unwnd's read on dunn

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

I don't know your own experience with Dunn but I do know we were in RPG together where I defended you (correctly) against a Ydra/Dunn team where I finally had the gumption to vote Dunn out. Are you seeing lack of parallel from that?

I mean yeah, I feel like the pattern you pointed out is generally true for dunn

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

What do you think about Ydra suspecting you? Like

Give me some ramblings. I wanna know where you are right now.

i feel like usual on d2s, which is that i have too many townreads, but this time there are more medium townreads on hard to read players.

like toog, dunn, your slot, saber, etc.

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

unwnd still at e-1 and infinity moving the default second duelist off herself onto saber

wasn't dunn the second duelist?

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

hm ok
who do you have as scum besides unwnd right now? I just re-ISOed you and you definitely have done more than I remembered but I have like
zero grasp on where you actually want this game to go
you feel very go-with-the-flowy

i don't have strong scumreads yeah

{taly, gamma}
{ydrasse, ulyana}
{peta, skitt, cakez}
{toog, dunn}
{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}

i have too many townreads and most of this day phase i've been trying to sort out who of the bottom tier is the worst

and whenever i vote someone they start townposting or there's a reason to unvote so ahh

like unwnd just started townposting

ahh

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

i did think the point you had earlier about them trying to be more presentable as scum or whatever it was made sense

yeah, thing is i feel the same way about toog and dunn and if all of them are town it's like what is even happening

it's possible all are town i guess

Subject: Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Event Four

VOTE: Dunn baa

[petapan]

all of this is bad. it's not good. i keep reading back on it and it feels like a problem


i don't trust the people angling for infinity in here but i might just go that way anyway

[petapan]

like why big brain this when there's someone who just looks fairly bad from appearances. hit the easy one and save the elaborate theories for if that fails

[petapan]

will give the isos a once over sometime tonight/tomorrow

[petapan]

happy birthday gypyx

[petapan]

i don't think it's actually hard to pick up what i'm putting down

[petapan]

and - if you want to disagree - that is fine. i am not trying to brute force a conclusion, i am literally just reviewing the data and trying to figure things out

[petapan]

i don't see a theory for a team that makes sense under your thinking

[petapan]

i'm just reviewing the game rater than resting on assumptions dude - literally never even said i'd vote taly but that i wouldn't clear him

i think trying to peg the exact team is bad but basically any suggested team with toog is mostly incoherent

[petapan]

my plan is to reread people today and decide something tomorrow

[petapan]

omg hi gammagooey

[petapan]

referencing that was part of why i changed my mind but not as simple as quiet/not quiet

turns out i was lazy today and didn't want to reread

[petapan]

p sure that's a joke from taly jsyk
also D1 ends at page 70 so that's prolly a solid stopping point

yeah duh its a good joke Taly's avatar is a very large nosed bird and I appreciate it

at page 70 but I'm gonna skip over your thoughts on before choosing an execution for the most part since my opinion on you largely doesn't matter until this part of the event ends
also for some reason I had it in my head that you shot Toog first before the sabotage and not Galron from my skim before replacing in? huh

I still don't feel like I have any particularly strong scum reads - skitter's still my strongest choice but I'm probably biasing myself against her at least a little because I know she's a strong scum player? aside from that my gut says Ydrasse feels a little scummy and I at least wouldn't be surprised if one of Ulyana/Toog were scum? meh

more tomorrowwww

think skitter is probably town but not necessarily off the stuff you've read, she did start going after dunn fairly aggressively on day 2, i dumped quotes in here. could bus, but from what i've seen she tends not to go after partners that aggressively out of nowhere

[petapan]

ulyana's style this game is tough for me to figure out

ultimately i don't think the lack of interaction with regard to dunn is entirely damning, i'e learned from enough observation that there can be no interaction entirely incidentally and it's not like dunn was active

in the end the way she's questioning people feels pointed enough

the one weird thing is her getting demonstrative about unwnd selfvoting on day 2 and wanting to slow things down, which looked good, but then somehow concluding no one in that exchange looked town and i didn't really like that


it's very hard for me to overcome the notion that she tends to be lower activity as scum with what she's done this game

i don't think i want to vote her this phase

[petapan]

i'm like 40 posts into the iso and i want to

VOTE: infinity

i don't know why i ever had a townread on her

[petapan]

aside from the dunn interactions, overall play is just lackluster and it feels like all her votes have been mediocre, doesn't feel like there's a process aimed toward actually figuring anything out

[petapan]

i feel like basically no other vote is acceptable to me

[petapan]

that vote on gypyx from infinity in 2485 is so bad

[petapan]

this is lazy skimread stuff but i can try to go into citations tomorrow if necessary

[petapan]

the scum agenda is trying to push someone who is town and misreading my questioning of him as being antagonistic in nature, hoping i'd push him

[petapan]

i sleep now though

[petapan]

VOTE: Ulyana
I still feel like Toog would be the BEST nomination but I’m working with what I’ve got.
I really hope this is just a straight-up gladiator match because if one of my strongest TRs dies to fuckery after you FOOLS voted her into the hot seat, there will be no room to hide. I’m basically just hoping the other side actually has the ability to pick someone sensible, I feel like the ACTUAL consensus here is on Ulyana but somehow Infinity is at N-1.

no gamma in fact i just moved to conclude i don't want to vote out ulyana now

theoretically if your world is correct there are 2 scum in here anyway. but meh

[petapan]

i have zero desire to go back to the well on toog atm

why is this

i'm also wondering this because eod last event you were all rah rah in my face about cutting some dead weight

i think dunn flipping scum just made me feel differently, wagonomics are bunk but

maybe i'm overthinking dunn's comment where he called the other lurkers scum

just felt like a lazy vote rather than actually trying to look for connections off the flip

[petapan]

theoretically if your world is correct there are 2 scum in here anyway. but meh

what world
I've not outed a teamsolve I believe?

i dunno you were saying anyway that toog was the only one over there you really wanted to vote

[petapan]

just felt like a lazy vote rather than actually trying to look for connections off the flip

when it feels like you've managed to sus every other slot that isn't toog off of dunn interactions, I think this is a massive load of shit

gamma i ultimately concluded i did not want to vote those people


like honestly i feel like you are really not understanding what i have been trying to say at all



maybe that's on me for being imprecise with my wording because i've been posting more raw thoughts rather than editing them to be presentable, i don't know


but you're way off the mark with understanding what i am doing here

[petapan]

fuck it all my townreads in here think inf is scum and I agree with them and Gamma hasn't given me good enough reason to change my mind
the gypyx vote gives me a little pause but tbf this game is stale and I want to get everyone reunited

VOTE: infinity

do you townread saber

[petapan]

i mean like theoretically, saber and gypyx are the people i townread in here the least but i absolutely was not going to let them voting infinity scare me off because in total i do not townread her play

i also do feel like dwlee and skitter over in the other thread wanted her flipped and i think those two are likely town

[petapan]

gamma sometimes you don't get what you want

if i'm dead wrong here i'll agree to shut up and follow your lead

[petapan]

okay whatever i'm stepping away from this

[petapan]

i thought "try to get two scum" was mostly overly optimistic given the flip to that point, and i think that sort of thing of trying to get two people who make sense together often messes you up (this is different from me saying i'm not sure there's a team that makes sense with toogeloo)

[petapan]

ulyana has 277 posts and I can only find a single vote with Ctrl+F

fwiw i'm pretty sure that's a playstyle thing

in the previous game modded by tweet, she (as rousseau), voted for exactly one person on day 1 and not until very late in the day

i agree these dang kids need to vote more often and get off my lawn though

[petapan]

i dunno

it's probably a harder decision than the one we have in all honesty

i think in all probability if there's a hard to spot scum it's over there

fwiw over here i think gamma emerald cakez and your slot are all basically locktown

[petapan]

is it bad that i a went on a wagon with the people in here i'm clearing the least, i dunno

[petapan]

they are really going down to the wire over there, huh

[petapan]

They better have some good improv lined up for us.

Also, you ignored my question, peta.

didn't see it tbh but my post was just a late night popin

i haven't weighed that calculus in my mind at all, i would not be surprised if there is a scum in you/gx/ydrasse but haven't really been putting mental energy toward thinking about it at all, focus has been on evaluating the pool i can vote