AI UPCIK PART II | Compromised

[Radical Rat]

Ftr cause I'm already a universal Miller I would not mind repositioning on wagons to hammer them. Then scum can't become investigation proof by hammering and town won't be suspected of doing a scum strategy.

Why would hammering make scum investigation proof? Did I miss something?

[Radical Rat]

Day 1 starts now !

public rule

Anyone hammering a member of the kindgom will become an universal miller and be inflicted with hated status, doing so multiple times will stack the number of votes on the person, but cannot go lower than (number of non-town alive + 1)

this rule is linked to a player in the game, executing him will disable it, he is aware of it

announcement

The 2 mastinas are dead and a member of

The Kingdom

Okay, APPARENTLY I just can't read.
In that case, I endorse Dwlee's idea to always be the hammerer

[Radical Rat]

Okay time to not get to day before ELO. Although, I interpreted that as DotW saying that I should die because of the hated modifier (which deactivates in ELO according to the mod)

I think it's more as insurance against you being scum pulling a gambit here to gain the very investigation immunity you claim to be preventing.

[Radical Rat]

I have it on good authority (though NOT confirmed) that Dwlee is Town here.

I suspect they got the role I submitted, which would have been Town-aligned, so I trust 'em in lieu of anything wacky happening

[Radical Rat]

Why would you say Dwlee's town Radical Rat?

I suspect they got the role I submitted, which would have been Town-aligned, so I trust 'em in lieu of anything wacky happening

[Radical Rat]

I have it on good authority (though NOT confirmed) that Dwlee is Town here.

I suspect they got the role I submitted, which would have been Town-aligned, so I trust 'em in lieu of anything wacky happening

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that our submissions were entered as a list and that our roles are what the AI decided to add to the list; meaning that it isn't a 1:1 submission to somebody's role.

I had interpreted it as we provide the role names, and an AI described their functionality. Prompt something like "Write a Mafia Role PM for a role titled 'X.'" Which is why our picks had to have some semblance of viability to them.

[Radical Rat]

Is it ever wise to massclaim what flavor we picked?
Considering then we know the names of the town/scum roles and can work from there.

I'm not opposed to this. Since we don't really know how each role got interpreted, this shouldn't give scum too much information, but would limit their ability to fakeclaim.

If the setup does indeed work that way...

[Radical Rat]

Well, the role I submitted (Crazy Cat Lady) had its name changed. Apparently the setup isn't just "NovelAI or something generates role abilities".

How do you know this?

[Radical Rat]

I have it on good authority (though NOT confirmed) that Dwlee is Town here.

I suspect they got the role I submitted, which would have been Town-aligned, so I trust 'em in lieu of anything wacky happening

Wait, why would Dwlee get the role you submitted?

Because I didn't, so I assumed someone must have, and his claim makes sense with it.

[Radical Rat]

Anything in particular bothering you?

[Radical Rat]

Anything in particular bothering you?

I don't like your assumption that Dwlee is town because you think he got your role. I don't know if you two are scum together or if you are scum and that's how you know Dwlee is town.

Well, I don't know what to tell you there. When making my pick, mod insisted I include an alignment, so I did, and that alignment was Town. Dwlee's claim and plan to hammer everyone COULD be an ingenious scumstrat to fool us all, but because his claim seems to line up with the role I submitted, which would necessarily be Town, then they're most likely Town.

I thought saying so would be a good idea to preempt the WIFOM about potential gambits.

[Radical Rat]

@Mod

So, to be 100% clear, the roles in the game are Not the same as the ones we submitted?

[Radical Rat]

Okay then, with that understanding, I suppose that means I can't just assume Dwlee is Town.

Also means there's probably little point in discussing picks further...

[Radical Rat]

I think Meg is probably Town, I liked the pick massclaim suggestion, even though it now seems like that would actually be useless.

Dwlee's plan is good, but it's good regardless of their alignment, so it's hard to really say for sure yet.

I'm a little iffy on Skybird, but that's mostly just the OMGUS instinct I think.

Everyone else hasn't really left any strong impressions yet

[Radical Rat]

I don't necessarily object to it, but I don't really share it.

I don't think he's had any particularly AI content. I know you said yours is meta based on activity, but I don't really like to rely on meta for reads if it can be helped.

[Radical Rat]

Are you planning on playing the whole game with the barking gimmick?

[Radical Rat]

Well, carry on then. I'm sure I'll figure out how to read it eventually

[Radical Rat]

I feel like my vote should probably be somewhere, but no one's made me want to vote them yet. Someone do something blatantly and obviously scummy please.

[Radical Rat]

Do you think I as scum would want to give myself attention in a stagnant game?

I do!
VOTE: unwnd

[Radical Rat]

Well, in truth, I don't actually think you as scum would want to give yourself attention in a stagnant game. However, I also don't think you as scum would necessarily Not want to do that. Because yeah, you could totally just coast along and let the slow and unfocused Town self-destruct. OR you could jump in and try to grab some early towncred by taking the lead and pushing things along. Of course, that's a good thing for real Town to do also, so honestly, I don't think the whole drawing attention thing is AI.

However, I DO think that asking rhetorical questions about if scum would do a thing you're currently doing is pretty sketchy.

[Radical Rat]

Because you asked why, and that's my thought process.

[Radical Rat]

Shrugs.

I saw a scummy thing, I voted for it.

[Radical Rat]

Why would I be seeking out my own output?

[Radical Rat]

So.... Shouldn't I be seeking YOUR output instead of my own?

Which I did with a deliberately provocative vote that I knew you would respond to

[Radical Rat]

If that's the case, why wouldn't I have hopped on a bigger wagon, like say Momrangal's? I wouldn't even have had to justify that one.

And yep, my behavior is different from before, because before I had no leads. Now I do.

[Radical Rat]

I wouldn't say MUST be, but I would think it unlikely you randomly vote your partner like that, yes.

[Radical Rat]

Y'know until you brought it up, I wasn't even really processing you as a "mounting wagon."

[Radical Rat]

I wouldn't say MUST be, but I would think it unlikely you randomly vote your partner like that, yes.

This is also contingent on how many scum there are, and if we're in a multiball game.

But we have exactly zero ways to know either right now, so I just assumed a small, single scumteam.

[Radical Rat]

Disagree on unwnd

Fair. It's early and I'm not in the moment. Just disliked their complaints on the gamestate.

What about everyone else who's been complaining about the gamestate?

[Radical Rat]

I'm here, sorry, I didn't really have much new to say last time I checked in, and then got really busy.

There is definitely content in the past few pages I have opinions about now though, and I will put those into words and post them later today. For now, I just got off work and really want to go to sleep.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, I'm here, kind of.

Wagon on me feels weird and sudden, but I suppose everyone was already gently suspicious of me, so I'm not sure whether to read into that much...

I think Kop's entrance was pretty good, I don't really see the problem unwnd and Meg have with it? He caught up promptly, and offered reasonable opinions, and is actively engaging. And Kitty hadn't done anything particularly scummy either, just lurking which is usually NAI. So I'm leaning soft Town there.

Skybird's Dwlee push is bad. Skybird's me push was also bad. I'm aware this will probably get called a chainsaw, but well. Can't help what I'm seeing, so.

VOTE: Skybird

I can kind of see where A50's coming from with wanting to remove low content slots early, but I'm wary of that still because going after lurkers is an easy out for scum, and most of his posts seem like fluff and jokes, it's hard for me to really get a solid read in there.

Yuki seems pretty Town, mostly just going by vibes there. Taro is another hard read because of the whole auto sheeping thing. It's a fun gimmick I understand and respect the dedication to, but it makes it hard to judge alignment nonetheless.

And I THINK that's everything that stood out to me.

[Radical Rat]

Oh, I suppose I should talk a bit more about unwnd.

I was intentionally leaning harder into that than I actually felt, because it was the first bit that actually pinged me as potentially scummy, even though it was weak. I considered it best to jump on it aggressively because I wanted a genuine reaction, and I got one. My conversation with unwnd looks fine upon a reread, and everything else they've posted seems genuine and Town-oriented. Plus I caught myself doing the same sort of leading question thing, and I'm Town, so my conclusion is that it was probably fine.

[Radical Rat]

We should!

I'm pretty okay eliminating anyone but Dwlee and Gamma.

Dwlee because we're using them to eat the hammers, and Gamma's pretty obviously Town for me right now.

Everyone else I could go either way on, but I'd prefer either Skybird or A50.

[Radical Rat]

9. Skybird - Strong town lean

Explain this one to me please.

You said earlier she was tonally scummy, but had Town logic. But, to me, both of her pushes were pretty bad, and nothing else has really stood out as feeling Town...

[Radical Rat]

That's a bit of a misrepresentation there, Mr. Emerald.

I did not say you and Dwlee were my only townreads, and in fact, I didn't even say Dwlee was a townread at all.

What I said was that you two were my only off-limits eliminations, and indeed my reason for you specifically was a strong townread.

However, I am gently leaning Town on probably about half of the playerlist. I'm still willing to eliminate within most of them though, because I am not terribly confident on most of them, despite my initial feelings, and I'm attempting to remain open to other options as opposed to trying to force my will upon the Town.

[Radical Rat]

It'd be more accurate to say Skybird is my only scumread, with A50 straddling the nullscum line.

[Radical Rat]

Welcome aboard, StD!

Why is Gamma scum? He's been the most consistently town presence in my mind

[Radical Rat]

I haven't gotten that sense of anxiety from him, and I think he's been one of the major forces in trying to get this game moving, and while I don't really agree with some of his opinions (clearly, since he's scumreading me), but they do seem genuine to me.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Aristophanes

I have no objections here, and deadline anxiety

[Radical Rat]

Meg should not be allowed to hammer.
Investigation immunity is a unique and verifiable property, and overriding that with Miller makes that claim unverifiable.

In Dwlee's case, however, if they're lying, they're scum anyway, so becoming a Miller would change nothing.

[Radical Rat]

Oh, and the definition of a good argument is: Does NOT include the words/expressions "I feel" or "it looks like" or the like.

It's Day 1, what else do expect to have beyond looks and feelings?

[Radical Rat]

I believe this means you Will need to claim, @Ari

[Radical Rat]

I shouldn't have to say this, but just in case...

@Taro
Please refrain from doing your double vote thing this time, since it would cause a hammer

[Radical Rat]

I shouldn't have to say this, but just in case...

@Taro
Please refrain from doing your double vote thing this time, since it would cause a hammer

Why did you feel the need to say it though ?

Because you said you would be Yuki's double voter until one of you was gone, and neither of you are gone. I didn't THINK you would actually do that in this situation, but I didn't want to take that chance either.

[Radical Rat]

I just realized my role name is kinda scummy but alas...

I'm the Sorcerer of Death! Muahahahaha

Basically, I have the power to target a dead player and use their active ability on another player. I can target each dead player only once.

It's such a gool role! The AI was on point here

I actually submitted a similar role to Grand Idea the other day. Dead slot interaction is always fun in general.

[Radical Rat]

I swear to God, if I have to watch a no lim on D1 again...

[Radical Rat]

Yes. Yes I would.

[Radical Rat]

Flips give information. Information catches scum.
A no lim tells us nothing, and should be avoided except in unusual circumstances, such as MeLo.

If the information you seek is from my death, so be it.

[Radical Rat]

@Ari, when you use your ability does it count as the dead slot taking the action, or as you taking the action?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Almost50

[Radical Rat]

It's scum is what it is.

I'll go back to Ari if it's actually going to happen though

[Radical Rat]

How does everyone feel about the SB9 slot? I could vote there or RR.

My limited experience tells me a slot that's going to get replaced doesn't get eliminated here. Please vote RR.

I was specific. I asked if he would rather kill a townie over a No Lim

assuming he was Town himself

, and his answer confirmed it was the case. He asserted that in a follow up post, so assuming he is Town he should have no problem being the yeet of the day.

The reason it's a better lim than -say- Ari is I don't TR RR, mastina doesn't TR him, Titus doesn't TR him, but STD (a major suspect for both me and the mastinas, and a null for Titus) actually does TR him. It's a test for how good our collective reads are, and it removes a slot that's obviously hard to read.

Ari not only can prove his role, but we can deduce his alignment through his picks and use of them. That -obviously- includes RR's ability(ies) tonight, so we lose nothing.

See, this is exactly what I expected to happen when you asked that question of me. And I think it was scummy of you to set that up.

However, as noted, I am indeed okay with dying here if it's what must be done. I don't think I SHOULD be the lim, obviously, but it is better than a no lim, and Ari being able to use my role helps me feel a lot better about things. IF he answers my question about how his role actually works anyway...

[Radical Rat]

I'd planned on it at E-1

[Radical Rat]

@Meg:

Before this wagon even starts on me, I can prove my role and I can prove its town.

I don't see why we should yeet this on D1. We can always come back to it on D2. I mean, this is no Normal Game, so we shouldn't fear "Scum 1-shot bla bla"

How does this not being normal prevent Scum 1-shot roles from existing?

[Radical Rat]

Oh, and I also have a suggestion: Since RR is being cooperative here, I think we should let him self-hammer. That way we don't have a Hated player on D2. I think that's better than having either Dwlee or Meg start the day @ 1 vote already

Opinions?

I hate this.

It makes perfect sense, and is probably the correct course of action, regardless of who we wind up eliminating. Dwlee hammer mitigates the effect of the hated miller thing, but self-hammer makes it actually just do nothing, which is objectively better, and I cannot argue with it, but I hate it.

You're still gonna have to get nine people on board with the elimination though. I'll hammer as a formality, but I'm not going to facilitate my own elimination.

[Radical Rat]

To my understanding; AI doesn't need to use gated roles to balance a setup. We -humans- do because we had already planned to use certain roles and their counters. AI doesn't stick to definite plan so I think it can produce a setup with no gated roles (I mean, everybody's a PR already)

I mean, Ari's role is limited to one shot per corpse.

[Radical Rat]

His tone is not well-intentioned, he's manipulating me into my own elimination.

[Radical Rat]

I reread my role in preparation for potentially needing to claim, and it turns out I'd misread it before.

I am no longer okay dying and letting Ari have it. I mean, not to specifically keep it away from Ari, just that dying makes it lose a lot more of its utility than I had initially thought.

I'm not willing to elaborate further on this, but yeah, I'm a lot less willing to accept my fate now.

[Radical Rat]

I'm supremely intrigued, but also this sounds genuine.

Honestly, this slot feels very town. RadRat, who is a better lim atm?
What is your A50 and your Gamma read?

A50 Scum, Gamma Town.
A50 is a better lim.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, let me clarify things here.

Yes, a mislim is better than a no lim.
That does NOT mean we should eliminate someone who we EXPECT to flip Town. In a situation with no strong scumread, you're probably gonna have to bite the bullet and lim someone you might have a light townread on. Strong townreads should still be avoided where possible, and if someone is conftown then they shouldn't even be up for debate.

[Radical Rat]

My problem is, I suspect you already knew that's what I meant. I think you deliberately framed things in such a way that you can push a mislim and not have to be held accountable for it, while removing a lot of my capacity to defend myself.

I went along with it for longer than I should have, because I felt my flip would be informative, and Ari would be able to use my role to similar, if not greater, effect. But that's no longer true after I reread things, and clarified a bit with the mod.

[Radical Rat]

The 2 mastinas are dead and a member of The Kingdom

[Radical Rat]

I'd REALLY rather do A50, but...

VOTE: Aristophanes

[Radical Rat]

Well shit.

I guess DotW then? Bottom of the mastinas' list, and apparently a negative utility role even if they are Town. Seems like a safe lim

VOTE: Dragon of the West

[Radical Rat]

I think that's E-2 btw

[Radical Rat]

At this point, whoever is available should hammer.

We shouldn't be in this situation, but we are, and while it should ideally be Dwlee or DotW himself, there's no guarantee they'll be here in time.

[Radical Rat]

yaaaaawwwwwwn

Felt like I was asleep for almost two weeks, what a night!

VOTE: Almost 50

[Radical Rat]

I know mastina and mollie think he's Town, but I'm sorry, I just can't let faking an innocent result slide, especially after trying to strongarm me into eliminating myself.

I do actually think at this point that Ari is Town at this point, partly because of how he acted under the threat of elimination, and partly because Almost50 pulling that on a partner would be a horrible idea I think.

Although, the double nightkill indicates we may in fact be in multiball so I guess they could be on different scumteams. But I still don't really see Ari as scum right now regardless.

[Radical Rat]

What's special about D2 that prevents NKA? Nightkills happened, presumably for a reason, that's definitely worth thinking/talking about

[Radical Rat]

What's special about D2 that prevents NKA? Nightkills happened, presumably for a reason, that's definitely worth thinking/talking about

How about we don't know vig (if any) from SK (if any) from scum?

Is that not something NKA is useful for figuring out?

[Radical Rat]

RR didn't you hard scumread A50? How did you buy that he had a day 0 innocent on the person that just happened to be getting wagoned?

Because it's a wacky setup with high potential for weird and unbalanced roles, and I decided it was better to go along with it rather than ignore it and mislim a potentially conftown slot. Plus, I didn't think A50 would have had the audacity to lie about something that serious, scum or not.

If it weren't so close to deadline, I would have interrogated that further, but with so little time left it didn't seem like there would be enough room to discuss where exactly that confirmation came from, and whether it can be trusted or not.

So, Ari was off the table until the inno claim could be verified, A50 I didn't think I'd be able to convince enough people on in time, and then DotW was nulltown for me, but hard scumread by the 2 mastinas, who are known to be Town, and was claiming a negative utility role anyway, so it was the safest choice and most likely to actually go through.

[Radical Rat]

DotW was just town
I knew it in my bones
Ari could be town too, but that feels less likely than how I felt about DotW being town. And does scum!DotW claim negative utility?

Anyway,

then DotW was nulltown for me, but hard scumread by the 2 mastinas, who are known to be Town

VOTE: radical rat

In my head, scum COULD have been claiming negative utility because VTs in all likelihood do not exist, and unable to be protected specifically is pretty much impossible to prove without a rolecop, so it's easier to get away with. There's also the possibility scum gets negative utility as well, making it not technically a lie, which is a convenient way to handle claiming as scum. So, although I didn't personally expect a scum flip, it seemed very much possible, and the only actually confirmed slot was apparently pretty convinced, deadline was right there, and even if DotW flipped Town, we didn't lose a significant PR.

[Radical Rat]

Vote:RR

Tbh we should have lynched Ari last day.

Then why are you voting me and not Ari?

[Radical Rat]

The thing is "I think" "it could be" "possibly" RR knew the flip was going to be green and helped still to do exactly what he's doing today.

Like.. "OMG.. no time left" should have exempted him from guilt from his own PoV. He thought no one will ask WHY because.. "eh.. deadline"

Now that "some" of the stuff I had on D1 is coming back to me I recall RR volunteered to be the D1 lim then retracted that. He claimed to have misread his own role. Bla bla bla..

This is misrepresentative. While, yes, I did say a mislim was better than a no lim, and that we'd probably have to suck it up and vote someone we weren't entirely comfortable with. I also did not volunteer to be the elimination, you asked if I was okay with that, I said yes if it was necessary, but did wind up retracting it because I misread my role, as well as that whole situation feeling really gross and manipulative to me.

[Radical Rat]

But RR you did the exact thing I said we should be looking at scum doing, which is playing sheep the IC

Only as a last resort, and not blindly so, but yes, that was a contributing factor in my decision. I don't know much about how good either of them are at reads, but being IC stump means at the very least I know I can trust them to be genuine, and I don't think taking that into consideration is scummy. Not just for my own defense, but for anyone.

Now, if someone is CONSISTENTLY sheeping the mastinas, and they just HAPPEN to all be mislims.... That's probably worth a look. So I'd probably go back and look at the people who were pushing both Kop and DotW. After limming A50 anyway.

[Radical Rat]

I did read them, but I don't think half of a hydra being historically bad at reads is a reason to discount all of their reads forever. For one, people can learn and improve at the game, plus with mollie there to discuss things with I'd expect them to be better at sorting people than either of them would be individually.

But beyond that, I again wasn't sheeping just to follow the IC. I probably would have come to the same conclusion (that it was a relatively safe bet to be wrong on) without their input, though it would have probably been less likely to actually go through.

[Radical Rat]

Doggo is sheeping me...should I be scared...?

FOS: Taro

I think he's buddying me again. Gamma, you're the expert due to

that game

. Is he?

Yea I am.I think it is funny to play along as Tarou thIS way

If I vote you, will you vote yourself?

Arf...

I am sorry...

I think Yuki is likely Town from this sort of thing. I don't think scum!Yuki questions having a free second vote from a plausibly deniable gimmick slot.

Unless of course they're partners, and it's pretend distancing, but eh, I think if there is scum there it's probably just Tarou

[Radical Rat]

I didn't know there was a last time, but that pretty much reinforces my point I think.

[Radical Rat]

Why is A50 scum RR

Early game was nothing but fluff, and though that's true of most players here, A50 seemed to do the least with the most posts, and even the non-fluff posts just seemed really strange to me, if not outright scummy.

Then later on, he engaged with me in pretty clearly bad faith regarding whether it was worth risking a mislim over a no lim on D1, and used that to attempt to manipulate me into eliminating myself.

Then he faked an inno result on Ari at the last possible second with no time to really discuss anything else, in what seems to me like a pretty blatant attempt to disrupt the town and potentially white knight Ari.

[Radical Rat]

The thing is "I think" "it could be" "possibly" RR knew the flip was going to be green and helped still to do exactly what he's doing today.

Also this bit where he's suggesting I joined the DotW wagon so I could push him today, which... Doesn't really make any sense, seeing as my scumread and arguments against him have nothing to do with DotW

[Radical Rat]

how familiar are you with A50?

Not very. I think we might have played together once, but it would have been years ago if so.


I'll do the list thing when I get home

[Radical Rat]

Mine's done, though I was a bit lazy about it and didn't ISO anyone.

[Radical Rat]

10. Morning Tweet,replacing Save The Dragons, replacing Momrangal

VOTE: Morning tweet
So here is some reasoning: STD scum?

Thoughts?

I love tweetie though

STD scum.... Why?

[Radical Rat]

Actually, you might be right, I forgot about that part of the wall over the two week night.

I don't normally like to do meta, but I did just recently play most of a game with STD, and a small amount of another one, one town and one scum.

Only the scum game had any big posts like the one mastina cites as a scumclaim...

[Radical Rat]

I'd definitely still prefer A50 actually behaving scummily over StD format meta though

[Radical Rat]

I am a little confused as to how I'm alone on A50 also.

Like, my guy blatantly lied about an inno result and derailed the town immediately before deadline. How am I the only one who thinks that's scummy?

[Radical Rat]

Ok, I was going crazy trying to see who I was missing on the living list because I didn't have 14 names. I finally looked at the list and the number 4 is missing from the list. We only have 13 players still alive.

And my list is done.

I assume the missing 4 is a deliberate part of Pooky's plan

[Radical Rat]

RR, I do understand your confusion on A50. To me though he was super town through most of day 1. I just don't see him doing all those things as scum.

Pedit: you don't want to do the list dwlee?

"All those things" being.... Nitpicking grammar, shitposting, and making easy pushes on inactive slots?

[Radical Rat]

Especially Titus. You know my main and you know I shitpost as town. You have one chance before I start scumreading you.

Is that why we're voting you? i'm voting you because you're the least town ive noticed out of any wagon and i dont think you've said anything except for this since your rep-in

You're all voting me because I am shitposting when I do that as town.

What do you do as scum?

I manipulate town.

Manipulate town perhaps by... Shitposting as scum, with the intention of claiming it's towny for you to do so?

[Radical Rat]

Yuki, if you're Town, what you're doing right now is bad. You're prematurely defending yourself from claims people aren't making, and your self-meta reads very poorly.

I don't think you're doing it on purpose (yet...), but take a step back and reread your posts pretending to be someone who doesn't know you.

[Radical Rat]

It's been far too long since I've played with her, but in case you didn't know/read it in the queue, Yuki's main is Yume if that helps you at all.

I don't think meta diving is worth it, just like, generally speaking though.

[Radical Rat]

1. Almost50
2. Taroumaru
3. Enchant
5. NDMath
6. Skybird
7. Titus
8. Morning Tweet
9. Dwlee99
10. Aristophanes
11. Yuki
12. Gamma Emerald
13. PookyTheMagicalBear
14. Radical Rat

[Radical Rat]

Or, fixing the missing 4...

1. Almost50
2. Taroumaru
3. Enchant
4. NDMath
5. Skybird
6. Titus
7. Morning Tweet
8. Dwlee99
9. Aristophanes
10. Yuki
11. Gamma Emerald
12. PookyTheMagicalBear
13. Radical Rat

[Radical Rat]

Wait, I thought you just said we WEREN'T doing it at the same time?

[Radical Rat]

RR do you still think Yuki is town based off of vibes? I notice you give them the benefit of the doubt but do you find it more likely than not?

Yeah. I mentioned earlier that I think her suspicion of Tarou is +Town, and though I do not like her past several posts, e do believe she means them.

[Radical Rat]

Vote:RR

Tbh we should have lynched Ari last day.

Then why are you voting me and not Ari?

Because I am not willing to put the effort to push it.

Then why bother bringing it up?

"Ari's scum, but I'm not going to vote or push there" is a VERY odd stance to take here

[Radical Rat]

everyone is going to simulpost

so scum cant manipulate and adjust their rankings

@Skybird & @NDMath: Please slide Pooky down a couple of notches on your lists. I don't ant to risk the bear's neck in this game of chicken Thank you

[Radical Rat]

everyone is going to simulpost

so scum cant manipulate and adjust their rankings

@Skybird & @NDMath: Please slide Pooky down a couple of notches on your lists. I don't ant to risk the bear's neck in this game of chicken Thank you

So you think Scum!Pooky tries to make sure his team doesn't get a shot at manipulating the final results? Or do you think Scum!Me tries to save Town!Pooky who has declared me a suspect (at the very least)? Would you care to make your point clear?

I just think it's funny that the whole point of attempting to get everyone to post together was to avoid scum manipulating things, and then immediately after people start posting not together due to miscommunication, you start trying to manipulate things.

I don't really think Pooky is in anywhere near enough danger for this to count as you "saving" him though

[Radical Rat]

RR, I'm not convinced Pooky is town. Do you really think we can all post lists close enough to one time that scum won't be able to manipulate their lists? How long is this analysis going to take? Pooky messes around for a few days and suddenly we are close to deadline again.

I'm not convinced he's Town either, but I think this is a useful exercise to participate in regardless. And posting lists close enough together to avoid manipulation, well... That ship's already sailed, since I and others have already posted early after misunderstanding 1175. After the lists are up though, it should just be a matter of adding up the totals, and potentially arguing a bit over whether or not to follow through. I don't think that's going to cause us to hit deadline.

[Radical Rat]

it is funny but i didnt interpret it as intentional yeah

so it's more "this is ironic" vs. "this is scummy", then

Pretty much, but it also sure doesn't improve my opinion on him

[Radical Rat]

i'm trying to derive something useful from how it looks like no one even bothered to question A50's fake innocent. Maybe it was just a deadline scramble and i can't learn anything though

My intention was to question it today when we actually had time to properly discuss it, but he admitted to having faked it before that, so.

[Radical Rat]

Gamma still obvtown this game to you? I've gotten this impression from multiple places that gamma is out of his scumrange

Yeah, I think so. I don't think I'm qualified to say what is or isn't in his scumrange, but so far everything he's said and done has looked pretty clearly pro-Town to me

[Radical Rat]

we're srsly coming up on deadline?

Not really, but at the rate this game's been running? Might be worth pretending we are

[Radical Rat]

Dwlee99 confirmed as good.

Is this an inno result claim (somehow), or do you just not think his claim comes from scum?

[Radical Rat]

Hmm

Well, I don't think it's at all suicide for scum to try, as evidenced by Dwlee's continued life, but I do agree it probably comes from Town for now.

[Radical Rat]

Does "Hated status" just lower the threshold for a lim by one per stack on that person?

think of it more as a vote constantly placed on you but ya this is correc, and additionally it deactivates in YeLo

Elo quickhammer isn't a concern. Town gains nothing from limming them early, and loses a chance to hit scum.

[Radical Rat]

It is losing something though: The chance to hit actual scum.

But I suppose it doesn't matter much right now, we both townread them, so we're probably not limming them today

[Radical Rat]

Because I don't think a single thing he's done all game has been pro-Town. Early game nothing but fluff/jokes, easy pushes on lurkers, which isn't necessarily scummy on its own, but then there's the part where he attempts to manipulate me into eliminating myself, and giving a fake inno just before deadline that derails Town off the actual chosen wagon and leads to a rushed lim on Dragon of the West.

And then today he's given some substantive content, but none of it actually looks any better.

[Radical Rat]

Generally, I expect "confirmed Town" to mean.... Confirmed Town. While the exact method of confirmation can be a variety of things, a townread, even a strong one, is not a confirmation of anything, which is why I had to ask you to clarify on Dwlee, despite it ostensibly being impossible for you to have real confirmation.

[Radical Rat]

If we must lim someone other than A50, I'd like it to be Taroumaru. I really don't like how they popped in just to say Ari was totally scum and we should have eliminated there, then refused to actually do anything that matches that sentiment.

Why are people scumreading NDMath? Nothing in particular has jumped out at me as scummy there

[Radical Rat]

also, do take extra effort to take care of yourself, Sky

Absolutely, don't force yourself if it's detrimental to your mental/emotional health, feel free to take a step back and recenter.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, I do see what you mean there, I should probably go back through D1 at some point...

I still feel much more confident on A50 and Tarou though

[Radical Rat]

Hmm, if only there were some big and obvious moment where a scummy player made a huge scene and killed the Ari wagon, and forced Town to rush someone else immediately before deadline.

[Radical Rat]

votecount 2.5

NDmath (4) :

Morning Tweet ;

Dwlee99

; Titus ; Gamma Emerald

Exe-3

Titus (2) :

Yuki Takeya ; Taroumaru

Radical Rat (1) :

Almost50

Almost50 (1) :

Radical Rat

Morning Tweet (1) :

Dwlee99

Dwlee99 (1) :

Hated

Not Voting (4) : NDmath ; Aristophanes ; Enchant ; PookyTheMagicalBear

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-28 17:45:29), it takes 7 votes to execute someone

@Mod: Dwlee is listed twice here

[Radical Rat]

Aris is confirmed a townie to me

Aris is confirmed a townie to me

Aris is confirmed a townie to me

Aris is confirmed a townie to me

[Radical Rat]

I most certainly am looking at other people. Tarou highest among them, but I also agree with the NDMath case, and have been engaging with and others and building reads on them.

I just feel the strongest about you.

[Radical Rat]

I'll do Taroumaru or NDMath. Enchant if absolutely necessary, but I'd rather give him a bit more time to actually play the game, since I don't have enough to read him on properly yet. Titus is in a similar spot, but I'm less willing to vote there because I have more specific things I want to see happen (or not happen) from her.

Almost50 is still my personal preference, and I'm still baffled that despite several people agreeing he's been weird and anti-Town I'm apparently the only one willing to eliminate him for it, but it's pretty clear that it's not gonna happen today at least.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Taroumaru

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: NDMath
E-2 but E-1 counting Dwlee

[Radical Rat]

r u really giving me shit for not analyzing a survey that half the fucking game didnt even bother to fill out

What do you think of the people who did fill it out? Do you think not filling it out was scum-indicative? Is anyone's list particularly suspicious to you?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: NDMath
E-2 but E-1 counting Dwlee

Actually only E-3, I didn't actually count and just saw that the official VC said Exe-3 before I voted. Which I assume was a mistake unless NDMath is also somehow hated?

[Radical Rat]

To be fair, the double kill suggests multiball, so at least some scum are going to be okay with it no matter who we wind up on.

[Radical Rat]

This seems weird to me, but this whole setup is necessarily going to be weird, so idk how to feel about it. It seems like this cleric role could be used to limit/detect fakeclaims, but isn't terribly helpful as a cop on its own because non-magical Scum or death-related Town are both plausible enough to make the results meaningless unless it directly contradicts a claim.
I'm... Not really confident this flips scum anymore, but... I don't know.

Can we do Tarou instead?
VOTE: Taroumaru

[Radical Rat]

I don't really like the assumption that scum has mod-assigned fakeclaims. I don't really understand why you'd think that's the case, unless you were scum and given one. But I townread you for basically everything else, so... What's the deal here?

[Radical Rat]

So you unvote NDmath who said Taro can't use bad magic and wagon Taro instead?

I don't know what fraction we are against, but if this claim is true, i expect some magical guild or coven against us (or mod trickery). Atleast, if NDmath is from kingdom, it imploy Taro is also innocent, unless i am not understanding something.

We already have an example of a Town role that could feasibly fall under "dark magic" with Meg's "Shadow of the Nightmare Lord" flip. It stands to reason that if there can be Town who do use dark magic, there can be scum who don't.
Further, the two nightkills means we have either two scumteams, an SK, a Vig, or some combination of some or all of those. It's possible one scumteam is magic flavored while the other, or the SK, is not.

[Radical Rat]

Not only is it not a hard clear, it's not a clear at all. With the information we have now, it is utterly useless for sorting alignment without making assumptions. The tracker analogy doesn't work, because, barring Ninja or similar shenanigans, a scum slot MUST visit a target to kill them, so it's reasonable to assume that a negative result is at the very least not the scum who performed the kill. Here, all we know is that whatever role Tarou has, assuming NDMath is telling the truth, isn't dark magic flavored. Tarou could have still performed both kills, and personally dumped all the evidence on Dwlee's lawn, and would still be "cleared" by NDMath's description of his role.

[Radical Rat]

I don't really like the assumption that scum has mod-assigned fakeclaims. I don't really understand why you'd think that's the case, unless you were scum and given one. But I townread you for basically everything else, so... What's the deal here?

I assumed that the role names and abilities had some sort of meaning so scum would have fake roles that align with the kingdom's naming scheme. Aka if they were to claim scum roles, the abilities or names wouldnt make sense, and if they made bullshit up, they might collide with something thr kingdom actually has

now I'm getting the idea that the setup is completely random so I guess there isnt that worry. I really dont understand how the design works

Isn't that just like. Part of playing scum though?
I have seen mod-assigned fakeclaims once or twice before, but I don't think it's very common because... It kinda removes a core part of the game. It just seems like a really weird thing to assume is the case, unless it's more common than I think it is

[Radical Rat]

we could always kill ari since nobody wants to replace into this mess

I probably shouldn't be, but I'm actually okay with this. If NDMath's claim is true, and the role is actually supposed to be useful as an investigation tool, that would make Town!Ari the third miller-adjacent slot in the game, which.... I know this setup is weird, but that's A Lot of millers milling about. Plus, if Ari does flip scum, no one has any excuse to let A50 off the hook anymore.

I think I'd still rather go for Tarou, because of the weirdness around Ari there, but I'd be amenable to Ari if it saves us another week of replacement searching

[Radical Rat]

Taroumaru happens to have the lowest amount of posts of any of the original playerlist that's still alive. The little amount it has posted today has been pretty bad. D1 wasn't really great either. The only reason I can think of in favor of letting it live is the NDMath result, which we've established isn't really helpful for alignment. So.... Let's just eliminate Tarou and go from there in the morning, hopefully with a more active Ari replacement that can help resolve the weirdness surrounding the slot.

[Radical Rat]

Werll I can save myself tbh and prove I am town via role but the question is, should I ? I still have some small ray of hope that you all will trust this poor little dog

also this is... like.. not the first time this has been invoked this game im pretty sure. If i recall right Kop did this and survived the last day. obviously he was town but yeah

Kop's claim was just that his role was easily confirmable, not that he could save himself and prove he was Town, so I don't think it actually contradicts here.

[Radical Rat]

Werll I can save myself tbh and prove I am town via role but the question is, should I ? I still have some small ray of hope that you all will trust this poor little dog

Will "saving yourself" end the day? If not, you should do it. By claiming this much, you've already put yourself in danger for a scumkill if you're Town, no reason not to go ahead and prove it for the rest of us.

[Radical Rat]

if A50 is scum i think he's spewing Ari/Tarou town

It's a dumb guess cause it ignores you and Ari off the top of my head but it's a guess nonetheless

I understand the Ari point, but why Tarou?

[Radical Rat]

Oh well.

I confirm Tarou beforehand.

What does this mean?

[Radical Rat]

A50, you can't wait for the 2 mastinas to post because they can only post during the night. Go re-read the first paragraph of their post.

They're supposed to have a 100-character post during the day. Or at least they did D1.

[Radical Rat]

deadline is frozen while ari is in limbo

how do we know this is multiball

We had two nightkills, and it is explicitly possible in the setup, though not confirmed. Other possibilities are SK or Vig, or even just scum having two kills for some reason.

[Radical Rat]

Enchant: Please explain what you're talking about with confirming Tarou.

[Radical Rat]

well now I'm locktown

if MT is wolf we just lose cuz nobody else cares lol :>

I don't really want to lim Pooky today. As scum I don't really see a reason for him to go out of his way to (attempt) getting people to actively participate in the game instead of just letting Town waste away on its own. I get the IIoA thing, but don't really agree that's what happened.

[Radical Rat]

That quote is not supposed to be there. I blame phoneposting

[Radical Rat]

I kinda want to go back to NDMath...

If Tarou is telling the truth, it's very likely to die soon since scum can't allow Town!Tarou to make it to Elo.

If NDMath is telling the truth, then I can still easily see that being a scum PR, particularly if we are indeed playing multiball. It isn't useful to us as Town, because Town can potentially use dark magic, and scum can potentially not, but if there are two scumteams, one magic and one not, and you're on the non-magical team... A positive result would be either a powerful Town PR, or a member of the other scumteam, which would be worth killing/eliminating either way.

VOTE: NDMath

[Radical Rat]

I can't believe people are not seeing RR as SCUM. If I was their partner I'd have power-bus'ed them already.

Who wants to take bets RR is

the

Scum that uses "Dark Magic"??

Do you still think Ari/the worst is Town? Because if so, there's a pretty simple way to disprove this.

[Radical Rat]

1. If I'm magical scum, NDMath still has a very solid chance of being the other scumteam, as per 1702. So we eliminate him today.
2. The worst uses his necromancy powers to use NDMath's role on me, confirming me to not use dark magic. Any protective abilities, of which at least one is likely to exist, protect him during this process.
3. The morning comes and the results are revealed.

[Radical Rat]

My role is reflexive, non-lethal, and offers positive feedback.

While I cannot directly prevent scum redirection or roleblocks, it would be possible to confirm that the action went through correctly.

[Radical Rat]

Let me entertain your theory of him being Scum from one faction assigned to find a member (or more) from the other faction.. why would you want to intervene in the war between Scums? Why can't we wait for ND to find that "other Scum" OR let the other Scum shoot him?

As for this part...
If I were on either scumteam, I wouldn't want to nightkill the other scum unless there were a more immediate threat. I'd rather eliminate them during the day once identified to get the towncred off it. And as Town, if we have scum, letting them live on purpose in the hopes that maybe other scum will kill them instead is... Well, it's certainly a take.

[Radical Rat]

r u really giving me shit for not analyzing a survey that half the fucking game didnt even bother to fill out

What do you think of the people who did fill it out? Do you think not filling it out was scum-indicative? Is anyone's list particularly suspicious to you?

Pooky, did you ever answer this?

[Radical Rat]

Tarou, nothing in your past couple of posts feels town to me. If you are town, which voters do you think are scum?

what do you make of the claim?

I don't see the claim as strictly town. And the way Tarou talks about using it makes me scratch my head. Threatening us to use it to save one's self just doesn't seem town to me.

Would you not use it the same way if you were in danger of elimination?

[Radical Rat]

1. If I'm magical scum, NDMath still has a very solid chance of being the other scumteam, as per 1702. So we eliminate him today.
2. The worst uses his necromancy powers to use NDMath's role on me, confirming me to not use dark magic. Any protective abilities, of which at least one is likely to exist, protect him during this process.
3. The morning comes and the results are revealed.

1. Why kill scum with scumsearching ability if can keep alive and force scum to kill it or possible get outed (mafia probably want kill each other)? Giving more time is not problem i believe.
2. What necromancy powers... imo if tree, it's waste, because as you told before "there could be not magical scum" so. Better to use it on someone hidenly.
3. didin't understand

1. Already explained, just scroll up a little. Basically, killing scum is better than not killing scum, even if they might maybe kill each other later.
2. Ari claimed D1 that his role let him use the ability of dead slots, and the worst replaced Ari.
3. the worst would make a post in the thread stating the results he received at the beginning of the next day

Now, while you're here,

Please explain what you meant by confiriming Tarou

[Radical Rat]

Oh well.

I confirm Tarou beforehand.

Yes, this post please. I've asked multiple times, several others also expressed confusion. What are you trying to say here?

[Radical Rat]

It's blatant.

Oh well.

I confirm Tarou beforehand.

What does this mean?

What are you confirming?

Yes, please tell us what you mean by that.

I concur, what are you talking about

Not to anyone but you

[Radical Rat]

I recognize I was a bit rude with the big text and all, sorry about that, I was just getting frustrated by how several people have asked you the same thing and you keep ignoring it

[Radical Rat]

Alright, thank you

[Radical Rat]

@the worst
Do you have an opinion on A50's fake confirmation of Ari D1?

[Radical Rat]

@the worst
Do you have an opinion on A50's fake confirmation of Ari D1?

Page 33 and surrounding

[Radical Rat]

I'm not going to eliminate outside of NDMath/the worst/A50 today.

I do not believe they are all scum, but I am very confident in there being at least one, potentially even two. And getting a flip in that group will inform my reads on the others.

[Radical Rat]

I also oppose Tarou using its ability on anyone but itself. From Town!Tarou's perspective, no one should be 100% confirmed except it. I see no reason to risk handing scum a unilateral elimination.

[Radical Rat]

I havent seen a single good reason to refute the "NDMath's claim doesnt help him cause prolly multiball so let's look at the rest of his play oh it's scummy lets lim there then" mindset

ND's claim is the only saving grace he has in my mind

If his play was so scummy how come (A) He wasn't a major contender for the lim on D1, and (B) I NEVER voted him at any point of the game?

I'm on the verge of considering migration from this site altogether because most of you (even the ones that "used to be" good) are playing the game as a mere guessing game. In my view, MAFIA is less a game of intuition and more a game of deduction. USE YOUR HEAD NOT YOUR HEART. Use probability, use mechanics.. etc. But all you ever do nowadays is "feels, looks, sounds".

I concede I could be wrong on "most" of my reads. I will not accept the reasoning introduced though. For example: "MAYBE" Multiball isn't a good reason AT ALL. Because MAYBE NOT???

Also, I've laid down that IF HYPOTHETICALLY it IS MB, ND could still be Town. And EVEN OF SCUM IN MB the better play is to let the other Scum team take care of him.

NDMATH & TAROU ARE OFF THE TABLE FOR TODAY.

So who is scum then? And what sort of ironclad logical evidence do you have?

[Radical Rat]

Yes please
VOTE: Almost50

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: NDMath

[Radical Rat]

Ah, I should have announced E-1 sorry, I wasn't counting either

[Radical Rat]

Anyway, party at my place tonight, anyone who doesn't have anything more important to do with their ability should drop by. Unless your ability is murder, no murderers are invited.

[Radical Rat]

Morning everyone! Who all showed up to my party?

[Radical Rat]

NDmath has been executed, he was...

Spoiler:

The Great Hunt

Welcome ! You are

The Great Hunt

Once during the game, you may anonymously put to reward a 1-shot Bulletproof vest to whoever hammers a player of your choice

You win if one person from both these 2 groups gets executed while you are still alive [REDACTED / REDACTED] and [REDACTED / REDACTED] if you succeed, you will leave the game in a victory

Night 2 ends in (expired on 2021-11-01 02:37:27)

Wincon was to execute one person from these two groups from these two groups. So we have 4 factions? Kingdom, somemagical, aaaaaaaaaaand...

No. NDMath's role had absolutely nothing to do with his claim, so we have no longer have any reason to believe magic is associated with a particular faction. We also have no reason to assume his targets were anything other than random.

[Radical Rat]

The fact that we only had one kill last night means we had a serial killer and a scum faction. We executed the serial killer, hence only one night kill.

Except NDMath wasn't a serial killer?

I think what probably happened was both scumteams targeted Tarou because of its claim

[Radical Rat]

I don't think NDMath's targets really matter much, but based on the whole dark magic thing, Ari/the worst was probably on the list.

[Radical Rat]

I don't have a night action

and if I did I sure as hell wouldn't visit some party lol

[Radical Rat]

Yeah, you're probably right actually. I was just thinking about how he crafted a claim that seemed specifically designed to make people question the slot, didn't actually go look at his actual play in a broader context.

Still, it probably doesn't matter, since we don't have any indication being a target had anything to do with alignment

[Radical Rat]

Honestly, I don't really know where to go today. I was naively expecting either a Town or a Scum flip, the condemner flip was both surprising and unhelpful.

[Radical Rat]

NDMath wasn't Town, so hated doesn't happen

[Radical Rat]

Day 1 starts now !

public rule

Anyone hammering

a member of the kindgom

will become an universal miller and be inflicted with hated status, doing so multiple times will stack the number of votes on the person, but cannot go lower than (number of non-town alive + 1)

this rule is linked to a player in the game, executing him will disable it, he is aware of it

announcement

The 2 mastinas are dead and a member of

The Kingdom

[Radical Rat]

Turns out trying to bold things that are already bold breaks things, my bad. But you get the idea

[Radical Rat]

Welcome to being alive!

[Radical Rat]

I don't think scum cared whether Tarou was Town or not. It would have been nearly impossible to eliminate via day play, and regardless of whether it was Town, 3P, or the other scumteam, the slot needed to be dealt with eventually. Why not get rid of it early?

[Radical Rat]

I do think it might be worth checking Tarou's scumreads. Scum might have been partially motivated by a fear Tarou would eliminate them... I believe that was myself, A50, and Ari/the worst.

Excluding myself, that leaves.... The other two slots I was comfortable eliminating yesterday. So that's interesting.

There's probably also at least one scum in the inactive half of the game, but I couldn't tell you who. Might be worth guessing while we still have some room for error, but I don't really like doing things like that...

[Radical Rat]

Did radical rat say what their ability did

They were scummy and got out of it by vague claiming

I was/am waiting to see if anyone actually bothered to show up. I THINK Titus is saying she didn't? So I believe it's just Yuki left who may have

[Radical Rat]

NDmath has been executed, he was...

Spoiler:

The Great Hunt

Welcome ! You are

The Great Hunt

Once during the game, you may anonymously put to reward a 1-shot Bulletproof vest to whoever hammers a player of your choice

You win if one person from both these 2 groups gets executed while you are still alive [REDACTED / REDACTED] and [REDACTED / REDACTED] if you succeed, you will leave the game in a victory

Night 2 ends in (expired on 2021-11-01 02:37:27)

I need a show of hands of the people who agree that NDMath had scum in their list of peeps to eliminate.

Or I can't move forward.

I don't see any reason to believe it wasn't just four random players. Might be scum, might not be.

[Radical Rat]

I don't think scum cared whether Tarou was Town or not. It would have been nearly impossible to eliminate via day play, and regardless of whether it was Town, 3P, or the other scumteam, the slot needed to be dealt with eventually. Why not get rid of it early?

You’re probably town for this multiball shtick but pls stop

I'm not the only one who thinks it's multiball though. Why do you think it isn't?

[Radical Rat]

Okay, so we are doing this.

Do you think the four *random* are all town?

I mean, there's probably at least one, MAYBE two scum in there, but that's true of probably any random group of four players.

[Radical Rat]

... Pooky, are you being serious? Or is this an elaborate shitpost?

[Radical Rat]

Radical rat

Full claim your stuff

I'd prefer to wait on Yuki to say if she visited if that's alright.

[Radical Rat]

Final solution: Scum are in Gamma/Enchant/Yuki/the wrost/Dwlee

Q: Is this the game where we were guaranteed 60% Town majority at the start or am I thinking of another game? If it is, then we probably have FIVE "non-Town" left alive (bc 60% of 17 is 10.2, so 10 Town is NOT fulfilling the condition and we must've started with at least 11).

If I'm confused though then there could still be another non-Town in the players I didn't mention above, but I doubt it.

60% wasn't guaranteed, but having less was "heavily avoided." I'm not entirely sure what that entails, but the OP in the queue explicitly says it's not a guarantee.

[Radical Rat]

Me claiming now provides an opportunity for Yuki to lie when she does get here.

[Radical Rat]

Alright, well, upon further reflection, I think a scum!Yuki is actually more likely to lie about not visiting me than visiting me, so I guess I can go ahead...

I am

The Master of the Night's Dance

Twice during the game I can host a dance. My dance will either make me a Reflexive Roleblocker or Reflexive Friendly Neighbor, my choice each time.

N1 I used a roleblock dance because I had alluded to having a powerful role that loses utility if Ari were to use it after my death, and I was hoping scum might try to kill me over it.
N2 I used a friendly neighbor dance, and that's the party I was referring to, but apparently no one came unless Yuki did, so it was probably just wasted.

Now that I've danced twice I'm basically a VT. Make of that what you will.

[Radical Rat]

I don't see any reason why you would have been roleblocked, however since I was pretty blatant about Doing A Thing over the night, it's very possible that I was, and I think it's odd you don't include that in your list of possibilities.

[Radical Rat]

I visited you last night and that didn't happen
VOTE: Radical rat
So I either got roleblocked, you rolestopped, or you're lying

What was your visit supposed to do to me?

[Radical Rat]

Alright then, let us examine the possibilities...

1. I get roleblocked on account of announcing my party. Whatever Dwlee did should have still gone through.
2. Dwlee gets roleblocked despite never giving any indication their role has an active component. Neither of our abilities work because I am not visited.
3. We both get roleblocked, which is functionally the same as 2, unless someone else visited me and didn't speak up.

So, we know that Dwlee's ability does not give feedback to them, because they would have known they were blocked and not accused me of lying. We know it doesn't give feedback to me, because I would have known I had at least one visitor and would have said as much, and if Dwlee were blocked my not knowing that would indicate such, and there should have been no reason to accuse me of lying.

From this, we can conclude that Dwlee's action has no feedback in either direction, and the only roles I can think of that don't are roles that interfere with others in some way, such as roleblockers, bus drivers and the like, in which case Dwlee would have known exactly why they didn't get my Friendly Neighbor.

VOTE: Dwlee99

[Radical Rat]

Did you just say the only roles that don't get feedback are roleblockers

No, I said the only roles I can think of that give no feedback in either direction interfere with other roles.

I can think of plenty that give feedback in only one direction, and a few in both, but none that are completely invisible to both parties except interference roles.

At least, as far as active, targeted abilities are concerned anyway.

[Radical Rat]

Actually wait, I think I'm just an idiot.

[Radical Rat]

UNVOTE:

Yeah, my brain just did a bad, there are definitely roles that are invisible both ways.

[Radical Rat]

As of right now, I don't think there's a mechanical guilty. I did think I had one but it was just my brain not working properly. Dwlee's still probably Town, and I was probably roleblocked, which sucks but that's what I get for publicly announcing an action.

[Radical Rat]

i dont really understand what's going on with Dwlee and RR if one is mechanically guilty okay

But if there's any ambiguity i'd rather vote worstie by far especially considering the confusing nature of this game

Why would RR claim something like FN falsely without having knowledge of Dwlee visiting them? I dont really see

RR claimed it thinking no one had visited them. So they didn't think they could get CC'd on it

I mean, if I were scum trying to pull something like that, I'd just get a buddy to "confirm" it rather than rely on "I can't prove anything anymore but trust me"

[Radical Rat]

Now let me go back to this:

Pooky is still TOWN to me. I suspect Gamma "may" be Scum, but I'm not confident there.

I'm shocked A50 can read me but nobody else apparently can

What made you think I could read you rather than think I investigated you?? Like, when was I ever that good at reading you with any degree of confidence anyway?

Do you expect Town players to just go "HEY GUYS I FOUND THE COP" publicly? I can't comprehend why you're so upset no one caught on and prematurely outed you, especially with no proof other than "weird shitposty player has inconsistent reads"

[Radical Rat]

Where is anyone saying any of this???

[Radical Rat]

Did you actually fake it? Jfc I was pretty sure dotw was town and if Ari is scum I'm giving you shit for it forever

Did you think I was a Day Cop or something?

It's just that I do have something that makes me like 95% confident he is Town.

After your fake inno on Ari, you said this, which sounds an awful lot like what you're claiming on Pooky now. But now you say the worst is scum for voting Pooky without explanation. Is that really enough to undermine whatever 95% clear thing you have, or was the whole thing just entirely faked?


P-edit:

I wasn't even talking to YOU, so why did you feel the need to interfere with something so meaningless?

Because I still have a scumread on you and am trying to figure out how much of your posts to believe, and whether I need to change that read.

[Radical Rat]

I would, yes. But if I'm going to fake a provable role, I'm going to fake proving it rather than not proving it. Just a big unnecessary risk otherwise.

[Radical Rat]

This is a discussion I would like to have more after the game when we can both know we're acting in good faith.

For now though, I will say that the whole fake inno thing isn't the only reason I scumread you, it's just that the big obvious lie right before deadline that forced everyone to quicklim someone no one was really happy with, and got handwaved as a joke was very frustrating to me and indeed a major contributor. I thought you were deliberately trying to pull a "too scummy to be scum" move.

[Radical Rat]

I know I'm not always the best at communicating my thoughts, and I'm sorry if I genuinely upset you here. I'll back off for the time being.

[Radical Rat]

Mastina, why would NDMath claim a kinda sorta inno on Tarou if it were one of his targets?

[Radical Rat]

Also, I am not scum.

Quick, what color is your role PM

[Radical Rat]

Damn, you're either telling the truth or paying too much attention.

While you're here though, do you really have no thoughts at all about the game? I know you said "reads are for tryhards" but surely you must have at least one opinion about Something, right?

[Radical Rat]

Eh, I don't. I am feeling very tired these days.

Well, I'm afraid you're probably going to die then. I'd really recommend you at least try to read today and come up with something, we're getting to a point where we can't really afford to just do nothing.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Almost50

I think the claim is bullshit, and the sudden switch in tactics to bullying everyone who disagrees with him is scum manipulation.