Large normal 236 [Game over]

[Loftwing]

Soaring into the game from the clouds, then crashes into a wall

..ow

...Anyway, hello everyone! I am Loftwing, your local neighborhood skylofty bird. I am here to pass judgement onto one of you.

VOTE: Hakai

[Loftwing]

So far, I'm not really liking Andres.

Dwlee looks very intimidating, would not gladiate.

Nero Cain is Nero Cain.

Lickety is unsanitary, but I still trust them.

[Loftwing]

Oh I do know who you are. I was going to ask how you know I'd be an intimidating gladiate cause I feel like I have been tame so far

Your pfp radiates intimidation.

[Loftwing]

i think between nero/quick/loftwing there is exactly either 1 scum or no scum and i wont be accepting criticism thats just this super fuckign weird vibe i have right now

That is a very nice triple death tunnel you have there.

But let's put buzzwords aside for now. Do you think it would be productive to investigate why you're getting super fuckign weird vibes from us?

[Loftwing]

That is a fair criticism.

I'll look into why I don't like you at a later time.

p-edit:

i think between nero/quick/loftwing there is exactly either 1 scum or no scum and i wont be accepting criticism thats just this super fuckign weird vibe i have right now

That is a very nice triple death tunnel you have there.

But let's put buzzwords aside for now. Do you think it would be productive to investigate why you're getting super fuckign weird vibes from us?

i literally said the vibe is you are either 2/3 town or 3/3 town, try reading my post again.

If you could determine why you're getting the vibes, do you think it could help determine whether it is 2/3 or 3/3?

[Loftwing]

norway, is your case on Andre srs?

Yes.
I’ve already solved 1/4th of the game.
Go vote him.

You haven’t solved shit. You should keep trying.

[Loftwing]

That is a fair criticism.

I'll look into why I don't like you at a later time.

@Koba maybe we do want to obliterate this. Just saying.

Please do not obliterate poor loftwing. loftwing does not deserve obliteration.

On that note, do you think that I was being opportunistic, or was I expressing my thoughts?

[Loftwing]

It wasn’t bad reasons. It was a joke.
For what it’s worth, I still like my Unvote.

???

Maybe because I like your subsequent posting? I didn’t know I had to explain every little thing.

No, I just expect people to normally post in a way that makes sense. If your meta is that you do this sort of thing all the time, then I don't really have a problem with your slot.

Meta is boring. Judge someone by how much they like Bread. Or by how well they perform at hunting for scum.

[Loftwing]

We currently have had 12 out of a total of 16 players publicly acknowledge that this game is taking place. Out of them, who would you want to hear more from @everyone

[Loftwing]

We currently have had 12 out of a total of 16 players publicly acknowledge that this game is taking place. Out of them, who would you want to hear more from @everyone

Personally, I'd like to hear more from Titus. Haven't seem much from her in awhile.

[Loftwing]

A50, you are not amusing. My opinion of you drops with every post. Soon I may vote you.

p-edit:

Yeah I get that a lot.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: LQ

Nero is also happy to see me.

im just confused why a player that always called me scum isn't calling me scum. It's like you know that I'm town this game.

The most logical conclusion is that LickeyQ (no I will not use any other abbreviation) is an Informed Townie, who was told very specifically that Nero Cain was town.

[Loftwing]

LQ for dead chat

This sounds like a title nomination more than a vote.

Anyway, do you have any other issues with LQ other than their readlist? Do go into detail.

[Loftwing]

LickeyQ, I think the reason why Dweelee the Intimidator is complaining at you is because you made a readlist with too many N/A spots.

[Loftwing]

I have lost track of the game.

NorvvegianboyEE, please tell me your current thoughts.

[Loftwing]

Thank you for your wise solve.

Any particular reason for that since the last time I made a meme out of it?

[Loftwing]

Oh, Koba/Dwlee town.
Andres FOS on Koba bad.

You seem like you're juggling with your head.

[Loftwing]

Reading is hard. So far I think most of the scum are lurking, with at most 1 scum max in the high posters.

[Loftwing]

It's cowardly to vote an inactive slot when you think a bunch of active slots have town told? Okay

I wouldn't call it cowardly. I would call it foolish to vote someone who hasn't spoken up yet.
If someone hasn't spoken yet, then what will voting them do? They haven't been active yet, so why vote them? You have literally nothing to base it on, as irregardless of alignment, some players will just be more inactive than others.

[Loftwing]

It's cowardly to vote an inactive slot when you think a bunch of active slots have town told? Okay

I wouldn't call it cowardly. I would call it foolish to vote someone who hasn't spoken up yet.
If someone hasn't spoken yet, then what will voting them do? They haven't been active yet, so why vote them? You have literally nothing to base it on, as irregardless of alignment, some players will just be more inactive than others.

You just said you think most scum are in the lurkers. Why are you now criticizing someone for voting lurkers?

You misunderstood me, or you misread what I said. Someone who has posted 0 or less times is null. There could be a variety of reasons why someone has yet to post and, more importantly, hasn't asked to be replaced yet. Starting a mob against them for doing nothing won't make them appear any more quickly, it will just get them axed faster, regardless of alignment. Do you really think it wod be wise to kill someone from which you know nothing about?

Dwlee didn't vote a lurker, he voted for a nonposter. Lurkers are those who can post more, but have so far failed to. I am scrutinizing Lurkers, not nonposters.

It is a very fine distinction that I made, but I am still aware of the distinction made.

[Loftwing]

So far you've posted -31 times.

[Loftwing]

No, just a satirical replacement for an actual player.

[Loftwing]

Firstly, sorry for misgendering you in one of my last posts, Dwlee.

Secondly, VOTE: Dwlee
I'm sure you're a perfectly healthy and mentally stable player, so why are you seemingly unwilling to give a reasonable response to Wake, rather than playing this weird "I'm not touching you" style game?

Wake is asking that you interact with him while you're here and ready to give responses, but instead of doing that, you instead say something like "What? No! I did do stuffs, like this poe! You have a problem with it?" And then when questioned about why the players who are there are, well, there, you say "You got a problem with any specific player m8?" which is irrelevant to what he was asking you.

[Loftwing]

I don't feel bad.

I partially agree with 702 that if no one asks for more, then unless it's vital to your point, why do it, but I disagree that if someone does ask for more, you shouldn't give it to them because no one cares. (Well, clearly someone cared enough to ask.)

p-edit:

Anyway your points are bad and if wake wants for an opinion on something he can literally just ask. You said a lot of words that somehow circle around that idea

So if he wants your reasons for why you do things, he's SOL then, I suppose.

p-edit2:

Because they haven't town told enough. That's why they're in the PoE. That's the definition of a PoE.

Any other deeper reasoning than this? How do you feel about the players inside the Poe?

p-edit3:

I will make this post eventually, god damnit!

[Loftwing]

I suppose I won't be getting any award-winning speeches from you anytime soon.

[Loftwing]

Looking over NorwEE's ISO, I could use it as pillow stuffing with how fluffy and airy it is.
Either that or he was being serious when he said:

Spoiler: Try avoiding these evidinces that edivince in an evedentshal way

I am god.

Read to me like a scared rabbit puffing their hairs.

Scum bad

kyouko it isnt a good look when you accuse me, are posting in thread while i respond to you and then dip without responding back

just saying !~~

You (should) know I finish catching up, so hyper posting while I catch up is just a tactic here, or you dont know me as well as you think you do.

Sadface

Now, I know players like to add little pithy jokes to their play, otherwise they would just be screaming at other players 24/7, but this is all fluff stuff. And when NorwEE does make actual statements, they are rather airy and dry. Like these!

Spoiler: A i r a t e d a n d d r y

I meant it was just Wake being Wake.

Nah don't be shy.

Go ahead and explain what you meant.

I do not like explaining simple things a five year old could understand.

I wish i could see more of your scumplay.
You’re like always town except in that one game where you hardbussed your teammate in the first 5 pages and then went on to sweep solo.

Anyway, i’m rambling.

I’m fine with an wagon on either of Andres/SSB

But c’mon Koba you know better. I’m not seeing the reasons for your reads of certain players at all because they’re leaving lazy votes on my slot and I’m Town. Norwegian and Titus just decided to make crappy early arguments and double down on them, but you TR that? What will happen when I flip Town then? Will you wake up or continue pushing DW or LQ aside who I would argue at this point are quite likely to be Town.

Why you trying to go around me by doing this manipulation on Koba instead of facing it head on.

This Dwlee push is bad and you should feel bad.

This is all a roundabout way of saying that NorwEE is not worth listening to until they improve their play a bit.

[Loftwing]

So if he wants your reasons for why you do things, he's SOL then, I suppose.

I did explain why I'm doing what I'm doing

Could you show me where you explained why? I'm having a hard time finding it.

[Loftwing]

No, I would never do that. I'd much rather you bake in the heat.

It's me doing a half-assed ISO of you, because the other half-ass is telling me that anything before what I saw was RVS and not worth looking into right now.

[Loftwing]

Why did you post your PoE?

[Loftwing]

Has your PoE changed at all?

[Loftwing]

Ooh it's my turn to ask a question: What made you reverse on me being too intimidating to vote? @Loftwing

You know how players like to include little pithy jokes to prevent mafia games from becoming people yelling at eachother?

Yeah that was one of them.

[Loftwing]

Your pfp along with previous experience with you makes you seem intimidating.

[Loftwing]

So.. where is Margot? Why is her ISO slimmer than gold foil?

[Loftwing]

..Because you voted her before she even posted.

VOTE: Margot

Hey all, apologies I missed game start. Have been a bit wrapped up in the Diablo 2 launch :/

[Loftwing]

I am a banned user (:

[Loftwing]

Ooh, you should make some rice cakes! I made some a few weeks ago and it was great.

[Loftwing]

I'll probably make some more. I still have some sweet rice flour and corn starch from the last time I made it.

[Loftwing]

I mean, it could be that, or they are trying to juggle multiple things, including other games they are a part of, so they don't have all the time in the world to devote to this game like some sort of hardcore mafia player.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that you're incomplete.

[Loftwing]

I wouldn't mind if NorwEE spoke to me using their native tounge's pronouns.

[Loftwing]

Don't worry. You can send me all the Norwegian you want, via private communique.

p-edit: No polish allowed.

[Loftwing]

In other words, pierdol się w pierdol się

Anyway, what makes you think they read the previous few pages NorwEE?

Using another langue for conversations, breaks cryptography rule.

[Loftwing]

What do you think that tells us?

I think it could go either way. It exists in the tri-intersectional portion of the Venn Diagram (Triagram?) of all Mafia action.

Spoiler:

The VDM is essentially a mapping of what behaviours we would expect from a typical player playing an alignment. To make this short, the Tri-intersectonal point includes Town, Scum, and Neutral actions.
If you'd like me to get into more details about what a Venn Triagram is, please do ask.

TL;DR, it's null by itself. The only way we can determine what alignment motivates it is by using other actions they take (which means that we won't get anything from this action.)

[Loftwing]

First of all, the point that: "Dwlee voted an slot that hasn't posted yet and that is cowardly" is a bad point because it's not even something that scum typically do in the first place, except maybe newb!scum that are afraid to ruffle people's feathers. But Dwlee is not newbscum, he is quite skilled at the game and both allignments.
Ask yourself, why would mafia vote an inactive slot? Mafia play to mislim town, and that means typically sheeping someone that has a better case or placing their vote on an already building wagon, or just lurking and trying to not put any attention on themselves. What Dwlee did fits neither of these traits.
MargotRosa also wasn't an wagon to begin with and nobody paid them any attention. It doesn't make much sense from an scum!POV.

Let's go back to the VDM.
In the case of "Actions that both scum and town can take", poor scumplay is definitely on the list. It's clearly not effective towards the endgame, but it's meant to give yourself towncred, one of the other things that scum hope to achieve.
Yes, it will always be more likely that poor scumplay is from town, however unlike other actions that are null, this needs to be studied further, so that we can cultivate a larger body of evidence.

But let's put that aside. Maybe you don't accept that. Then how about this:
Dwlee didn't see a good wagon to hop on. Maybe it's through sheer luck that we voted all the scum, or maybe it's something else, but either way they didn't see a good wagon and needed to start a new one.
Typical Sheeping Mafia play doesn't work when all the options are bad.
As for lurking, I'm confident that there is at least 1 scum in the top posters right now. Take that as you will, but antilurking isn't exclusive to Town or Neutrals.
When you consider these points, you might see that there are any number of reasonable objections to why scum might not be playing typically.

p-edit:
Why are my posts always so long when I want to say something TwT

[Loftwing]

To be honest, I don't see Super Smash Brothers Melee_Kyouko

[fullstop]

being more than Null for me. They don't seem particularly interesting to me.

p-edit:

@NorwEE
I mean, that would definitely be optimal play for you, but I don't see the slot you're saying is scum as scum.

p-edit2:

@NorwEE
I don't think the contradictory evidence is sufficient. If we rejected all claims that had contrary evidence, we wouldn't be able to advance in most pursuits in life.

p-edit3:

@DkKoba
To be honest Koba, I don't see either of you or NorwEE as particularly townie. I know that means I'm not your target audience to persuade, but still.

[Loftwing]

NorwEE, you seem to be trying especially hard to strongarm the town here.

[Loftwing]

Of course you don't like it. That is obvious NorwEE. It's critical of your play, and it paints you in a negative light.

[Loftwing]

NorwEE, all you've done is push for an axe. You haven't really interacted with others except to push for an axe. You don't care about the game, you only care about getting the axe.

[Loftwing]

If the axe is a scum player than i am the best player on this table. Town are supposed to kill mafia.

Yeah, but you aren't providing explanation for

why

they are scum. All you're doing is trying to axe them, which makes me think you're scummy as hell regardless of if they are town or scum.

[Loftwing]

@Koba

I have quite literally stated that I nullread Kyouko. I have no read on them. The fact that you're trying to say that I have a special interest in keeping them alive when I literally have NO READ ON THEM WHATSOEVER is really scummy.

[Loftwing]

Ok, you two clearly aren't talking to me, you're trying to prescribe action on me.

This is why no one should listen to you. You're actively trying to chase an axe while crushing dissent.

[Loftwing]

When I actually null read a slot in a game I express that I dont think theres anything conclusive but let the wagon build on them and watch rather than shade people on the wagon

I have let the wagon build, and I saw that the wagon was trash. It's not "shading those on the wagon" it's pointing out that the wagon is trash and some main proponents on it are scummy.

It's not "shading people on the wagon", it's pointing out that the wagon is bad and those on it are bad. It's not shading if I

explicitly

say that you are scummy. That's pretty much the exact opposite of shading.

[Loftwing]

I can nullread someone and still say the wagon on them is bad. What are you trying to say??

[Loftwing]

I'm currently interacting with someone I deem more important to interact with. It's not like I have to take every opportunity to interact with everyone.

[Loftwing]

Also, I was in the middle of recording Salted 2 footage to hack into a video.

[Loftwing]

Loftwing, why is the wagon bad?
What are the scummy things I'm doing that imply I have a scummy thought process?

I.e. I dont give a shit what actions you think are scummy because thats level 1 reading - Why are the actions linked to a scum agenda and improbable to be towny?

The Kyouko Wagon is bad because the two main proponents of it (You and NorwEE) are. in my eyes, very scummy and trying to strongarm the wagon into existence. I don't know whether or not you two are T/S or S/S, but I am very sure that at least one of you two are scum, and have either pocketed the other, or are working together to grab the game by the tail and drag it along to wherever you want it to go.

Take, for example, a very simple question recently asked by Nero Cain:

What's the case on SSBM besides posting elsewhere?

Neither you nor NorwEE have answered yet, despite it being a simple question to answer. Do you not have an answer, do you not want to answer, or did you just not see fit to answer it?

But that's something small and in the present. Maybe neither of you didn't want to answer right now because you were busy. Let's move on to another point.
I've already stated in the past that NorwEE shouldn't be listened to (and indirectly scumreading them) so I already had a scumread on them, but then you seem to just vibe with them, and are on the same wavelength. I don't know if this is because you're trying to pocket them, if they're pocketing you, or if you two are both scum. I don't know, but all I do know is that one of the two of you are defo scum. You two working together leaves a dry slate-on-the-tounge feel in my mouth.
Pocketing or vibing with eachother is a scummy thing to do, and would definitely be something that scum would want to do. After all, it's much better to drum up support for a bad wagon if players trust you.

Next is your defense of Dwlee. I don't know why you think Dwlee, or anyone else, voting a noposter is actually town behaviour. I don't care why you think that. All I know is that that is incorrect. It is not town behaviour, it is antitown behaviour.
Think of it like this: Say Dwlee's bandwagoning worked and we got Margot to E-2 before they even got on. How would you expect any player to react to being driven to E-2? I would expect poor performance of towniness from a noposter, because they have a wagon on them with the very real threat of axing. You're put under immense pressure and told that if you don't act pro-town we will kill you, which is hard to do when you're under the threat of axing.
Basically, I would expect Margot to act poorly and get axed, regardless of their alignment, and maybe even regardless of their role. If Margot was a power role, we might have accidentally axed a PR Day 1, because they looked scummy when put under immense pressure.
And what do you do? You defend Dwlee's actions. You say that this was actually a pro-town thing to do. That this was actually something you would expect town, not scum, to do. I'm not buying it. That is bullshit. That is indicative of you WKing Dwlee against me, which is something a scum player would do to gain followers, which again, makes your actions more popular, regardless of what they are.

My dinner is ready, so I'm going to go eat. But this is just one part of why I think the wagon is bad. It's messy and imprecise, but I think it gets my thoughts across.

[Loftwing]

Nero's question was answered

And pressure on a slot I think could be scum is just objectively a good thing. If they're town they can probably town up. If they're scum they probably can't.

Your thought process there is just not how I think about playing this game at all

Where was Nero's Question Answered? Koba just straight up deflected instead of answering.

Yeah, but you didn't say that you thought they were scum, hell, you couldn't have thought they were scum, because they were a noposter. You would've been just as justified in thinking that they left the game and were going to get replaced. You had 0 reason to think that they were scum, but you voted them anyway.

That is indicative of you WKing Dwlee against me, which is something a scum player would do to gain followers, which again, makes your actions more popular, regardless of what they are.

And yet you're voting me

Spoiler: No need to needlessly increase the length of my posts

VOTE COUNT 1.4

With 16 players alive it takes 9 to eliminate

ssbm_Kyouko (4): Almost50, NorwegianBoyEE, Dwlee99, DkKoba,

Dwlee99 (4): Rannygazoo, Wake88, LicketyQuickety, Loftwing,

Nero Cain (1): Hakai,
Almost50 (1): GrandpaMo,
LicketyQuickety (1): Nero Cain,

DkKoba (1): ssbm_Kyouko,

NorwegianBoyEE (1): Andresvmb,

Loftwing (1): Titus,
Hakai (0):
Wake88 (0):
Titus (0):
GrandpaMo (0):
Andresvmb (0):
MargotRosa (0):
Kop (0):
Rannygazoo (0):

Not voting (2): MargotRosa, Kop,

Deadline: (expired on 2021-10-02 17:00:00)

V/LA: ssbm_Kyouko & GrandpaMo & Rannygazoo party till Monday

Bolded are the most viable wagons, and underlined are who I would want to axe. I hope you can see how you are the most viable option.

[Loftwing]

lol caught scum.

[Loftwing]

Yeah sure, and when I flip Town you're totally gonna naenae on me because I was 100% confscum

[Loftwing]

If I were a Dayvig, I would totally shoot Kyouko just to see Koba wither when they flip town.

[Loftwing]

I don't think anything they have done is particularly impressive, but you don't get a push this bad if you're scum. In isolation, they are null, but because you're trying to clown on them, I think they shouldn't be axed.

[Loftwing]

If Koba is arguing that you are town, I might as well use that to my advantage.

[Loftwing]

You said you think koba is scum cause they're white knighting me. How is that congruent with thinking I'm scum

I don't just think that Koba!scum is because they defended/WKed you. I specifically said WKing because they themselves think that you are town or townlike.

[Loftwing]

I think that is very likely, yes.

But again, I wasn't arguing for my PoV. I was arguing from theirs. If they believe that you are town, then if I believed what they believed, they would be WKing you. I'm not sure how you're failing to grasp this basic concept.

[Loftwing]

@loft where's the reads list

I'm currently trying to edit a video, and or sleep, because unlike some people, I have a life outside of MafiaScum. Your scummy little butt can wait while I do things that I want to do.

[Loftwing]

Pandamandamonium

[Loftwing]

Why did you completely ignore the possibility of town!Kyouko? Or did you consider it, and then dismissed it for reasons? Because I didn't completely ignore both of you being town, I considered then dismissed it for reasons.

[Loftwing]

I don't know whether or not you two are T/S or S/S, but I am very sure that at least one of you two are scum, and have either pocketed the other, or are working together to grab the game by the tail and drag it along to wherever you want it to go.

I find this take to be pretty strange.
Why are you assuming there has to be scum in us and ignoring the possibility of T+T?
Either you’re just bad at mafia for ignoring the possibility or you have an agenda in wanting one of us or both limmed.

So you dismissed town!Kyouko for having a bad reaction when put under pressure (until further notice, that is), rather than just assuming that town!Kyouko is wrong.

Why did you assume that I assumed that T/T NorwEE Koba [claim] was wrong, instead of dismissing that for reasons?

Neither you nor NorwEE have answered yet, despite it being a simple question to answer. Do you not have an answer, do you not want to answer, or did you just not see fit to answer it?

Anyone that reads back on the game and exhibits more than level zero thinking can see that both me and Koba have explained our reasoning. To claim that because one of us doesn’t answer the same question repeatedly, that there is nothing there. Looks really bad on the person that makes the accusation because it’s an obvious lie that can be traced back on to them and shows them as an liar that cannot make any arguments in good faith without trying to lie about past events in order to gain future influence.

Yeah, because "do people just not read or" is a great way to answer and isn't at all inconvenient >.>

[Loftwing]

Some people don't have object permanence.
NorwEE doesn't have Idea Permanence.

Just because I don't actually show my thought process in detail at every step doesn't mean that I didn't have one. There might be various reasons why I didn't put out my thought process, one of them being that I assumed the players reading through why I think that at least one of you or Koba is scum would figure out that I did consider T/T, and that I wouldn't have to explicitly say that and waste everyone's time, and make my posts that much longer. Another reason is that I was specifically asked why Koba was scummy, not why they might be town. Kobe quite literally asked me "What are the scummy things I'm doing th ... t process?", which means that there would have been

literally no reason whatsoever

to mention that I considered town!Koba, because i was literally not asked about that at all. No one asked me that, so why mention it?

You are blaming me for not only omitting something which I would assume anyone reading that would figure out, but also blaming me for omitting something which I

wasn't even asked.

[Loftwing]

Because it doesn't make sense to say that they're white knighting me from their perspective because from their perspective they're not scum

Still no answer to this

How the hell do you know that they're not scum?

Also, you can make excuses for why you haven't done x thing but if you're making huge wall posts in the meantime uhhh that doesn't tract

Hmm yes, just let me write a readlist while being asked questions that must also be answered. Yes.

Also: you not explaining your thought process and then getting mad people want you to explain more is very funny given you're mad I won't explain every read I have this game lol

Minor nitpick, I'm not getting mad (although I probably don't have any way to prove that besides recording live responses to each question I'm asked).

I'm not getting mad that people want more than I posted. That would be silly, especially since that would imply that I just want people to go away fullstop. I may not be responding satisfactorily, granted. That wouldn't then mean that I'm annoyed that others keep asking for what my previous statements didn't have.
I find it a little odd that you don't explain your reads when asked about them, though.

[Loftwing]

Well i’m asking you right now Loftwing.
How did you reach that conclusion?

It begins, like most ideas, with a vibe. That vibe, in this instance, is bad. I don't know why I was getting bad vibes from you and Koba. Maybe it was because I don't like hyperposters (Both of you combined have around 1/6th my total posts in just this one game), maybe it's because I didn't understand why Kyouko was being pushed, or maybe because you two seemed to be working together. In any case, I was getting weirdly bad vibes from both of you.

It then continues with more thinking. In this case, I do some overall watching of yous play, along with seeing why Kyouko is being pushed. I also receive some divine guidance from Roden my saviour who suggests that they don't understand why Kyouko is being pushed. Roden also notes how Koba (the one whom I get bad vibes from) says they are suspicious via meta. Of course, Roden isn't perfect. Roden might be scum, but I'm trying to deduce that. But what Roden does say is that they feel like scum is driving the wagon.

Roden Divine Interference is nice, but I need to do my own looking into it. As I am doing my own looking into it, I don't like what I see. I couldn't tell you why, but I could tell you that I didn't think it came from town. It's important to note that up to this point, both of you were pretty meh to me. However, what I see doesn't seem to make sense from a Town perspective. Why are you pushing Kyouko? Why don't you just believe people when they say they're on V/LA? Why does being vacant mean that you're scummy, when the vacancy is coming from said V/LA player? Why doesn't this make- Oh, you're probably scum. This is pinging me as scum behaviour, so you're probably scum. I don't see how this can be town behaviour.

And then we arrive to where we are now, with me more convinced that you are not T/T.

[Loftwing]

How the hell do you know that they're not scum?

You're also just not reading the words I'm typing or scum

Then why did you say

...because from their perspective they're not scum

If you don't know that they aren't scum? This hinges on either an assumption that they aren't scum (which you would need to demonstrate to my satisfaction that they aren't if you want to convince me that they aren't) or the TMI that they aren't (in which case.. you're just scum lol.)

[Loftwing]

Roden is not in this game

I'm using them as a Mr. Rogers-style inner-thought process. I'm sorry if that didn't pass through in writing, you can ignore that.

[Loftwing]

Mr. Rogers is often unreliable

Anyway, I think I was asked for a Reed's list by two players in this game, so I'm going to work on that before I pass out.

[Loftwing]

Towntopia

Loftwing
Rannygazoo
LicketyQuickety
---
Nero Cain
Wake88
Andresvmb
Almost50
---

nulland. how fun.

---
ssbm_Kyouko
GrandpaMo
Kop
MargotRosa
---

you are now leaving nulland.

---
Titus
Hakai
---
Dwlee99
DkKoba
NorwegianBoyEE

No-Go Zo-Ne

[Loftwing]

Are you communicating with someone outside of this game and having them help you?

Does my play LOOK like I'm getting any guidance from the infallible

Ircher

StrangerCoug

Sirius9121

[PLACEHOLDER]?

[Loftwing]

Could you elaborate on your thought process, Margot?

[p.s. I drank waaay too much coffee because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get everything done in time, but now I can't go to sleep. send help.]

[Loftwing]

Ok, I'm finally going to sleep. Good night, all. (Except for you, Wake.)

[Loftwing]

good morning

Bleh.

[Loftwing]

I honestly don't feel like playing today, maybe later.

I don't feel like talking to A50. They sound so.. annoying.

[Loftwing]

I consider Kop post 670 as prod dodge. Kop is being replaced.

Khopped.

[Loftwing]

Could you elaborate on your thought process, Margot?

I would like this answered. Your slot hasn't done much at all, you've been coasting through the game, and I would like to see more from you.
I'm sure that even the players at the bottom of my

hitlist

readslist would like to see something more than what you've currently done.

[Loftwing]

I find it entirely reasonable for scum to be unable to plan ahead.

It might also be (although I myself discredit this and I'm only saying this for after-game cred) that traitor!Koba is happening, which would technically make you and Koba S/S, but unable to directly communicate.

[Loftwing]

Show me how many games have 3 super active scum taking charge from the start and all townreading each other, as opposed to games where scum is mostly lurking or taking a backstage approach.

I guarantee you the percentage is like 2% / 98% skewed in favor of scum being mostly afk or not doing any solving.

..which is all the more reason why it would be super effective.

The less someone expects something, the more unprepared they will be when it happens.

Jake's clown take is that in this game me and Koba both managed to completely abandon our meta of being much less active when scum and both just settled on to an shitty strategy of hardpushing an lurker slot.
I don't see this happening even in an world where me and Koba are both scum. (Which is decidedly not the case)

And you're getting weirdly defensive about being called scoomb, going so far as to chainsaw me when I call you and Koba scoomby.

I feel like shutting down dissent would definitely be on the scumgenda™.


Also, quick sidenote: I am Loftwing, not Jake. I may be an alt account of Jake, but I'm trying really hard to be the Mafia-only account (so I can shitpost and stuff on my main)
Please do not continue referring to me as Jake from here on out.

[Loftwing]

Thank you kind sir.

[Loftwing]

Hm, that might be the case. I'll have to look deeper into it.

[Loftwing]

If mafia has wits about them they will eventually shoot town!Dkkoba and town!Dwlee at some point, therefore solving the slots in question before we even need to consider if they could be scum. Because if they live for very long and continue to not find scum then they will look very suspicious by burden of proficiency.

Isn't that a logical fallacy? Couldn't they be town and be unlucky at finding scum?

[Loftwing]

If mafia has wits about them they will eventually shoot town!Dkkoba and town!Dwlee at some point, therefore solving the slots in question before we even need to consider if they could be scum. Because if they live for very long and continue to not find scum then they will look very suspicious by burden of proficiency.

Isn't that a logical fallacy? Couldn't they be town and be unlucky at finding scum?

Yes. But in this context i am arguing why scum are unlikely to all be powerwolfing.

So the powerwolves would be caught due to a logical fallacy?

[Loftwing]

I want more from Kyouko. They are junk food and I want to eat them.

[Loftwing]

Could you elaborate on your thought process, Margot?

Sure. Buckle up though, this will be a long one.


[We are not having multiparagraph quote wars here.]

This was not a good post.

You're argument seems to rely on the fact that your reads lists are totally meaningless, and no-one should take them seriously.

Could you provide an example of this? I'm not saying that my reads should be taken 100% as fact, but I'm also expecting that others take my reads as sincere, and definitely consider my specific PoV.

Furthermore, you seem to think that creating pressure is scum indicative, which is a weird and frustrating way to play mafia. It comes back to another post you've made, that I haven't addressed explicitly yet:

Before we get into the next part.. It may seem that way, but it isn't true. Creating pressure can be good. Chasing an axe under the guise of pressure is bad. I did read ahead, so I'll reapond to that seperately.

I have myself defended Dwlee here. I think it makes a lot of sense for Dwlee to vote for me, given the fact that I am, generally speaking, pretty assertive in my Mafia gameplay. As such, it makes a lot of sense to out pressure on my slot. To say I was at risk of being eliminated, when it takes 9 to eliminate d1, is farcical. To say that pressure may have come out of e-2 is true, but that's entirely the point.

Being against pressure, or seeing any attempt to generate pressure as being scummy is at the very least anti-Town, if not genuinely scum indicative

My specific angle was scumreading Dwlee for voting a nonposting slot, not for creating pressure on said slot.
However, at the time there was presicely zero evidence that you would post, so the attempt at pressure should have been placed on someone who has at least posted in the game. Pressuring lurkers who at least posted gets more players talking. Pressuring nonposters does not. I think that this isn't a mistake that your typical town player would make, but rather an intentional play by a scummy player who's worth looking into.
Furthermore, the hypothetical where a noposter gets driven to E-2 was supposed to showcase how dangerous Axe-Chasing under the guise of Pressure Building can be. If you hadn't posted, Dwlee could've easily made any number of justifications to kill you. If you had posted, it probably wouldn't have reflected well on you because you would be close to execution, which means Dwlee could make an easy case for killing you.

I do not believe that trying to build pressure is bad. I think that axe chasing under the guise of building pressure is bad. The two are not the same.

[Loftwing]

See Loftwing maybe anything you're typing about me voting margot would make sense there if after she posted I did literally anything to push her instead of thinking that her posts were townie and voting somewhere else

Well, you didn't have the pressure buildup or the crowd

to

push forward. What you're saying is what I would predict, that you don't have enough power to kill Margot because the hypothetical didn't happen. My posting does make sense, even if I don't speak with crystal clarity at all times.

[Loftwing]

Obligatory metabad but here's me doing the same thing in a different game https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12953284

Is.. is this for real Are- Are we really doing this?

sigh

The game was in RVS. On page #2 you voted a player who hadn't posted yet. More importantly, 4 hours hadn't even passed in the game yet let alone 12, which means that some players wouldn't have had the chance to post.

You must be joking. There is no way you're not joking. Please tell me you're not serious.

[Loftwing]

I don't particularly understand LQ. Maybe it's because I haven't been laser focusing on them, or maybe it's something else, either way I would need to ISO them.

I can't remember the case against NorwEE here exactly, I'd probably have to reread some stuff I said, but I do still think that NorwEE is of suspicion.

[Loftwing]

Anyway i don’t even think i’ve been particurarly aggressive this game.
Except when calling out shit posts for being shit i suppose. But it’s not like i’m calling for Loftwings death over it. I’m stil just wanting SSB for today.

You aren't calling for my death right away, but you did suggest that you're close to wanting me dead right away.

I still prefer voting SSB as i think SSB scumflip says slightly more about Loftwings alignment than Loftwing scumflip says about SSB.
Even if i am close to thinking they are mutually inclusive at this point.

[Loftwing]

Read on what? Your reminiscence of getting SK one game, the "posts" A50 made after indirectly calling for my death, or you agreeing with the "posts" what A50 made (and including a word that only shows up twice in a cursory search of MafiaWiki™)

[Loftwing]

Could you tell me where you pulled Townbeard from? I'm mildly interested now.

[Loftwing]

gonna edit it into DGB's wiki page and see how long it'll take for it to notice.

Huh.

[Loftwing]

I'm liking Kyouko based on her own merits here. She seems to have a townlike mindset and is making a genuine effort to ketchup on the happenings. I don't think that this comes from scum!kyouko.

[Loftwing]

Roden is not in this game

I thought this was the case as I was reading the previous post but I was still convinced I'd somehow forgotten

I am a trickster fae whom decieves and bamboozles

[Loftwing]

I don't think that this comes from scum!kyouko.

I’m not impressed.

Why's that? Has your opinion changed due to [does a quick search for pronoun] her recently posting?

[Loftwing]

im not sure how many votes they have, but I'd like to vote for Loftwing. i feel deep in my heart that loftwing is not playing for the good team here becaseu very performative style, lots of posts with little content early on, but just something not good with the tone which is hard to explain.

Don't worry cool-kie, I'm just bad

DO you have any other thoughts about me and/or other players? I'd be very much interested in them.

[Loftwing]

interesting that NorwegianboyEE says you were publicly scumreading kyouko first then. one is right, one is wrong. if you are right, why would the other player make that mistake? a convenient/lazy argument or just easy to sell? but for you there's no incentive to make that correction there as mafia.

I didn't look back to confirm the exact timeline, i just remembered that i hated SSB's vibes from those pages and how they were interacting with Koba.

i guess it looked like it was integral to your "OMGUS" argument for them being mafia, so maybe its a surprise you would get it wrong. anyone can make mistakes but more common for mafia who are only pretending to find the mafia

Squint

Hm. I'm not going to say that you're wrong, but I am going to say that I disagree that it's more common for mafia than town to make mistakes.

[Loftwing]

im not sure how many votes they have, but I'd like to vote for Loftwing. i feel deep in my heart that loftwing is not playing for the good team here becaseu very performative style, lots of posts with little content early on, but just something not good with the tone which is hard to explain.

If you think Loftwing is scum, do you think that makes SSB's allignment clearer? Given that Loftwing has been attacking the slots that are pushing SSB.

yes i think loftwings position there is strange. attacked for defending the slot, so responds by arguing they are a nullread which could be a way of trying to not look like they are buddying up - which would be tough for the evil team. although could also be loftwing trying to distance from a town elimination. not the only player potentially in that camp i can see.

I'm gonna just, explain that, ok?

I disagreed with the wagon not because I townread them (because at the time I didn't townread them) but because I thought the proponents of the wagon were suspicious and trying to kill Kyouko under the guise of just building pressure.

We literally did.
She is tonally scummy, asking too many questions,and her reaction to pressure is to ignore it completely and try to make it go away. Plus literally she is dodging this game 100%

Does this look like an explanation for why you should build pressure or is it an explanation for why Kyouko should die soon™? I think it's the latter.
(For the record, I disagree with #1 and #2, with #3 and #4 already proven to be false in recent times. I don't think Kyouko was tonally scummy nor do I think she was asking too many questions, if that is even possible.)

(Also, I couldn't find NorwEE explaining why they thought Kyouko was scummy, so I'll just respond to the first few posts that they made suspecting Kyouko)

[Seriously guys I want Salty 3 in my hands right now nintendo please release it.]

Mislims arent the only thing scum are looking for. Offering the advice on playing larges via finding a town poe, and stuffing the call-out on your own poe, reads to me like scum looking to establish themselves within a townblock.

The wording used in the pushback on Andres felt very specifically geared towards that agenda, so it feels too coincidental to be town.

SSBM your push on Koba is bad.

VOTE: kyouko

surprised_pikachu

Your reaction here feels very scum!centric

Andres/SSBM scum.
I’ve solved 2/4th of the game already.

Now, I don't know about you, but this just feels like NorwEE wants to kill Kyouko, not pressure them. This also doesn't look like much of an explanation for why Kyouko is scum, rather it just dumps them into a scumpile.
This definitely doesn't feel like building pressure, like Koba said they were doing, and NorwEE later affirmed.

how does kyouko manage to everytime they post to pop in and comment on some shit that happened ages ago and never whats happening in the moment

btw this is something that strongly indicates scum kyouko ^ and in general you can read that game and see how avoidant kyouko is to acknowedging pressure at all when she is scum.

(also warning, deadpronons in the game bc kyouko hadn't announced their transition yet)

[An example of how Koba implied that Kyouko was being pressured here, not hunted.]

I’ve already said that i’m voting Kyouko until they post.
I think their shitty reaction to

pressure from Koba

and subsequent flaking from the game was extremely scum indicative. If they return and make town posts i’ll change my mind, but if nothing has happened to change my scumread of the slot i don’t see why it should.

[An example of NorwEE acknowledging that Koba pressured Kyouko]

All of this is a convoluted way to explain something in two sentences:

The two main players who were on Kyouko's wagon were aiming to kill but claimed to build pressure. This is how you can say that a wagon is terrible while having a nullread on said wagon.

p.s.

Wow, this turned out to be waaay longer than expected. Oh well, I might as well make long information-dense posts detailing my thoughts rather than short posts which barely explain anything.

[Loftwing]

When did i deny that i wanted to kill kyouko?.LMAO?

You can't build pressure and want to kill the slot where pressure is being built, because that would defeat the entire point of building pressure (determining alignment without killing). You never explicitly say "I do not want Kyouko dead" but if you pretend to build pressure, then you imply that you don't want to kill them.

You can do 2 things at once.

In this case, you said you were building pressure, while thinking "Kill! KILL!

KEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!

"

I have no time for you, I think that your actions speak for you louder than your "gotchas", and you just can't run away from your actions. You may try denying them, but that won't help. I believe that you are probably scum here, but I do see some town action behind what you are doing, I just don't believe that justifies your bloodlust. I am rather uninterested in you right now, and I would much rather move on to players with less than 25 posts, to see whether they are alive or not.

[Loftwing]

(unrelated, remember that video that I said I was editing? It's done and up on my YT channel.)



I would like to see more from the players in the red box of doom

[Loftwing]

sigh

I really don't want to have to explain the same thing over and over again.

Building Pressure

and

Executioning

are two mutually exclusive things. You cannot both

Want to gauge how someone reacts to pressure

while also

wanting to kill them

because the whole purpose of building pressure is

to determine a player's alignment without killing them

, while the whole purpose of execution is

to kill those who have been deemed to be against the town

(mainly in the form of killing scum). You cannot want

someone alive

while also wanting them

dead

. They are mutually exclusive. I hope you can understand this, because I will not be explaining it again.

[Loftwing]

Like this is the sort of case where if you want to say I'm wrong/scum you should actually prove that Kyouko is town first - something i believe impossible and I know no one accusing the townblock has tried it because they would reach that same conclusion, provided they were not biasing themselves into believing it at all costs.

If I wanted to prove that you're wrong, I would need to divine Kyouko's alignment. If I wanted to prove that you were scum, I would need to divine your alignment.

[Loftwing]

I have little patience for you left. This isn't me trying to run away from an argument I can't win, this isn't me admitting defeat, this is me saying that investing any further energy into you will be a waste until further notice. Please, can we just move on to something else?

[Loftwing]

do people just not read or

[Loftwing]

I'm liking Kyouko based on her own merits here. She seems to have a townlike mindset and is making a genuine effort to ketchup on the happenings. I don't think that this comes from scum!kyouko.

[Loftwing]

OH hold up - you know what scum kyouko looks like, do you Loftwing? what's the difference here?

I believed Kyouko when they were V/LA, and what they are doing now justifies them being on V/LA. Now, if they would have just completely ignored the ketchup, I would be in agreement with you that they are worth looking into and maybe should be pressurized into a diamond, but so far I'm failing to see that here. I don't think they lied about going on V/LA because of their ketchup, and their ketchup seems to emulate a town perspective on the game.

In short, the proof is in the... keeetchuupp... yeah....

(

Ketchup pudding just sounds gross. I wonder if anyone has actually made that.

)

[Loftwing]

this isn't a logical argument.. "she didn't lie about v/la so that means all other arguments are irrelevant and thus she is town"

this is what you are trying to say.

That is not what I'm saying.
I am saying that Kyouko is acting consistently to how you would expect a town player to act. In addition, her recent posts ping me as coming from a town player, rather than a scum player.

[Loftwing]

dkkoba what's the three-point summary of Kyouko-scum for me?

More questions than solid statements(attempting to appear "uninformed" via trying to informatively look like she needs to ask about everything - hides in catchups to avoid pressure - no fire in their play, this *is* present when they are town. (hard to quantify - its more of gut thing than anything that is felt )

I think that if Kyouko is able to radiate Town behaviour without even knowing that they are under pressure to do so, then that is a plus. (Of course, I am willing to accept that scum!Kyouko would see that they are under pressure, so would know to act more towny than usual, but that comes with its' own problem of trying to act town while not being town, a known hard problem)

Could you clear up what "No fire in their play" means? I don't understand that.

I think this could go either way. Town can ask a lot of questions because they are uninformed, or scum can ask a lot of questions to look uninformed.

[Loftwing]

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

I'm going to just stop arguing with you. You seem to be saying "I am not and can never be wrong", so there's no point in trying to change your mind there. You won't accept a good argument even if it was made, because you have it in your head that you can't be wrong, and no amount of argument in the world will change someone's mind if they decided that they are right.

[Loftwing]

Coolkie, what are your current thoughts on Koba?

[Loftwing]

cool cookie - loftwing - andres- kyouko

is a solve i dont hate atp

these are the only 4 names that are not hitting the bar of townienes I have currently set.

I don't think that scumteam ever wins this game

Loftwing - I'm willing to buy this as dkkoba-town - partly player, partly gamestate read. at the very least, dkkoba would be way down the list of folk to consider elimming today.

I would tend to agree. Their arrogance here along with boxing themselves into a "I'm right and you're wrong" fortress would come from a town player.

[Loftwing]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

[Loftwing]

What is your read on SSB Andres. Do you scumread them?

Here’s my take - the reason I haven’t defended Kyouko aggressively despite seriously questioning Koba is because if I’m wrong about Koba (and I can be - Koba is notoriously hard to read) is because Kyouko admitted that Koba has their number, and yet they’re not screaming

hard

to get Koba executed. There’s not a whole lot of outrage in 461 or 480 for example. Just some surprise, a rather meek admission that Koba does have Kyouko’s number, and some strategic discussion about how Koba might go about using their 100% read rate to their advantage as Scum.

I am comfortable applying the burden of proficiency standard to a select

few

players. The number is small, and since I haven’t played here enough most of those players are in the old forum I used to play in. Koba is in that list. I have a feeling Kyouko agrees that the standard should apply to Koba too. If that’s indeed the case, then why aren’t they more outraged that Koba is reading them wrong and hard dunking on them? And why are they letting me take all the heat here? I’ve been in games with players I know can easily tell when I’m Town. I know how that feels like. And when they’re hedging on my slot (and I’m acting like my usual Town self), or even worse, calling me Scum, I obviously get suspicious. I’m always skeptical even if you have me right, but with some players it becomes more obvious when they should be reading you correctly but aren’t.

At the same time, I have seen Koba get some things wrong (of course, none of us are perfect). But after screaming this loud for an execution? I think that’s maybe a bit rare. If we flip Kyouko, and they flip Scum, Koba is going to get NK’ed and well, that’ll be that. But if they’re wrong? Then what? That’s going to be hard. What I’ve done in the past in situations like this is advocated for the “1v1” to get sorted, and go from there. I don’t know that I’m the one who should be making this argument. But I think it should be considered.

this is pretty bad, especially in a Koba-Kyouko TvT world.

Could you explain why you think this is bad? I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter.

[Loftwing]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

that's exactly what i was implying. or to frame it differently, if scum aren't doing that, it's a strategic error.

Could you name anyone who you think might be doing this?

[Loftwing]

im mostly wary of those following dkkoba reads, as it's a very easy way to stay out of the limelight. Dwlee99 is of interest, not only for that reason, but to look at later.

Do you think there's anyone following their reads that might be trying to avoid suspicion?

that's exactly what i was implying. or to frame it differently, if scum aren't doing that, it's a strategic error.

Could you name anyone who you think might be doing this?

I could. Are you asking this because you think I can't? Or because you're trying to send me in a certain direction/want me to give you a direction to follow? just curious

I want to know who you think they might be, I'd like to investgate them further.

[Loftwing]

Also, quick sidenote: I am Loftwing, not Jake. I may be an alt account of Jake, but I'm trying really hard to be the Mafia-only account (so I can shitpost and stuff on my main)
Please do not continue referring to me as Jake from here on out.

[Loftwing]

I'm actually surprised that 5 days have passed so far. So much has happened in the past few days.

[Loftwing]

Maybe we should start a push on GrandpaMo. They have an anime avatar, which is not acceptable.

[Loftwing]

Maybe we should start a push on GrandpaMo. They have an anime avatar, which is not acceptable.

is this serious?

The first part is. You hadn't really said much this game quite yet, and I nearly forgot you were in the game until recently.

[Loftwing]

I've done some reconsideration, and I want to come back to this game again. Perhaps something went wrong here that I want to inspect.

@NorwEE @Koba @Dwlee I want to find some common ground here, because I want to re-visit you being scum here. When we both have more time, I'd like to discuss some things we can agree on.

[Loftwing]

Could you go into more detail there, NorwEE? I'd be interested in learning more form you.

[Loftwing]

Could you go into more detail there, NorwEE? I'd be interested in learning more form you.

It’s that voting someone and telling people to kill them is literally what pressure is.
What do you think it is? For someone to sayy: "Ohhh!! Look at me!! I am pressuring you!!! Ohhh!! Don’t kill him tho"

Hmm, I always thought pressure was less killery than that, because while it does create the very real threat of death, it also allows for the player to escape by somehow towntelling. Of course, if they fail to towntell, off their head goes.
Is there something wrong with this view of what pressure is?

[Loftwing]

Could you go into more detail there, NorwEE? I'd be interested in learning more form you.

It’s that voting someone and telling people to kill them is literally what pressure is.
What do you think it is? For someone to sayy: "Ohhh!! Look at me!! I am pressuring you!!! Ohhh!! Don’t kill him tho"

Hmm, I always thought pressure was less killery than that, because while it does create the very real threat of death, it also allows for the player to escape by somehow towntelling. Of course, if they fail to towntell, off their head goes.
Is there something wrong with this view of what pressure is?

Yes, you’re making an distinction where there is hardly any.
Of course you could argue that "pressuring" is different from a pure desire to wipe an slot clean off the map. But the boundaries between the two, is so vague, so fleeting. That unless you have an extremely big understanding of Dkkoba’s play AND why it is specifically scum indicative of Koba. It’s an big waste of time to discuss this. Especially when we haven’t even seen the flip of SSB in question.
Why would scum!Koba even tie themselves so heavily to the flip of an slot if they already had the luxury of knowing SSB’s allignment and that they will flip town?

I believe that if Koba is indeed powerwolfing here, then they would know how risky of a move being this bold would be and would be prepared to accept the work required to maintain the dominant position post Kyouko flip.

Do you believe that Koba is capable of doing this, NorwEE? I'm not sure whether or not Koba is able to do this, and possibly made the incorrect assumption that they were able.

[Loftwing]

Do you believe that Koba is capable of doing this, NorwEE? I'm not sure whether or not Koba is able to do this, and possibly made the incorrect assumption that they were able.

I think it is highly improbable they would do this.
I’m not saying it is 100% impossible that scum!Koba is capable of making big and bold plays. But almost everything so far has told me that no, they are town here.

I know in the past you mentioned something about not revealing why you townread Koba here, and I understand why you chose to do that, but could you share with me some of why you townread them here? I'm not asking for you to make the definitive towncase™ for Koba here, but I'd like to see some of your insight that I might've missed.

[Loftwing]

On the contrary, if we had ended the day so early, I would have taken it much more seriously that y’all might be scum trying to strongarm the game, regardless of the flip.

Like, I feel like loftwing has been saying that pressure and building a case good, rushing an elimination bad. It seems like you’re not getting it or not going to agree.

Let’s give people a change to post instead of chasing an axe and then going into day 2 not knowing who half the players are.

It’s more like half of this playerlist think we’re playing an mini.
I’ve participated in an 50 player large that needed 26 votes for an majority. Do you think that game would have had any chance of getting an lim on scum if we had to wait for every single player to post?
You don’t need an read on every single slot in the game to get an scum lim on day 1. you just need to get enough of an read on enough slots as to make an wise decision.

I meed to see this game. NorwEE, please link it to me.

[Loftwing]

[buzzer sound]

Oooh, I'm sorry Hakai, but that is incorrect! Please try again.

[Loftwing]

*Taking in a deep breath*

AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!?????????!?!?!?!?!?!????!!?!?

[Loftwing]

VOTE COUNT Loftwing.8

With 16 players alive it takes 9 to eliminate

Spoiler: Unofficial Votecount Contents

ssbm_Kyouko (6): Almost50, NorwegianBoyEE, Dwlee99, Hakai, Andresvmb, DkKoba,
Dwlee99 (2): Wake88, Loftwing,
cool cookie (2): Titus, Rannygazoo,
NorwegianBoyEE (1): Nero Cain,
Loftwing (1): MargotRosa,
Almost50 (1): GrandpaMo,
DkKoba (1): ssbm_Kyouko,
Titus (1): LicketyQuickety,
LicketyQuickety (0):
Nero Cain (0):
Hakai (0):
Wake88 (0):
GrandpaMo (0):
Andresvmb (0):
MargotRosa (0):
Rannygazoo (0):

Not voting (1): cool cookie,

Deadline: (expired on 2021-10-02 17:00:00)

V/LA: Wake88 till Tuesday

Loftnotes:
Kerset's mod color looks like orang. It makes me sad ):

[Loftwing]

I think it would be funny whenever you start arguing with someone to bring up this post:

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

And remind your combatant that you are not worth arguing with, even if you're wrong.

[Loftwing]

It would be absolutely hilarious if both NorwEE and Koba were scum, but on two separate teams.

[Loftwing]

Sounds boring. How about Complete the first phase of octo expansion with minimal octo form?

[Loftwing]

I think it would be funny whenever you start arguing with someone to bring up this post:

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

And remind your combatant that you are not worth arguing with, even if you're wrong.

Are you going to talk about any slot except for me and Kobas, Loftwing?

Make it an youtube challenge. The: "actually scumhunt and focus on slots outside of the masons" challenge.

I tried talking about other people, but each time I try to, it fails. It's not entirely my fault that you guys won't shut up.

[Loftwing]

VOTE: Kyouko

Honestly, there's nothing that could stop this wagon nay Kyouko revealing to be a Innocent Child (at which point, we would all proceed to laugh as we pushed Koba off the nearest cliff)

[Loftwing]

Mmm I dunno about that.

[Loftwing]

Well it's proveable and I'm willing to be leashed at this point :/

I'd say that we would need to find a better not me alternative to you, and I'm just not ready for that yet.

[Loftwing]

Like, we either execute you and you turn out to be town (in which case I get to laugh at Koba) or you turn out to be scumb (in which case I get to be haunted from Koba from beyond the Rave)

[Loftwing]

I don't think we let Kyouko live here, mainly because we don't have any alternate players to choose from. In addition, given what I already know, her role is implausible. (Also if she's town I get to nae nae on Koba)

If scum!Kyouko, then killing her is the best outcome (since we don't have any reliable way to tell vanilla scum from PR scum)
If town!Kyouko, then we shatter the current townblock and cast suspicion at the masons until their heads fall off.

[Loftwing]

@loft r u scujrmeading / townreading nee

also u never answer this question --

this question was important in terms of scumreading / townreading u.

and u ignorning it could have been a vital reason that could make me think you are mafia for ignorning (smart on your side)

tho if u did actually miss it, answer it now and give me ur thoughts if u were on that earlier page (basically asking how was ur read on nee back then) and give me ur tohughts on them now

I ignored it at first because I thought you were asking what my read on you was.. which should have been obvious given that I wanted to start a wagon on you for info. (Null)

I.. uhh. have a complex read on NorwEE. I'm getting complex and hard to describe vibes from them at this time.
In short, they exist on both sides of the spectrum and never in the middle.

[Loftwing]

And if Kyouko is town, then we all get to nae nae on DkKoba until they leave MafiaScum, or until they flip scum.

[Loftwing]

Or people sometimes don't believe Mason claims. That seems speeasy and spimple

[Loftwing]

attention ALL Mafia gamers - cyclone NEEDS your help! he has been accused of cheating AGAIN. all you need to do to save cyclone is post your credit cards NUMBER and those SILLY numbers on the back. Do it quickly! as cyclone might be banned before you can save him!

But I want Cyclxne to be banned.

[Loftwing]

@GrandpaMo

I think it would be funny whenever you start arguing with someone to bring up this post:

you know what fuck yall - I have a fucking 100% read rate and you all fucking dont

if you're going to challenge my method you need to make a good fucking case because i haven't fucking missed.

And remind your combatant that you are not worth arguing with, even if you're wrong.

[Loftwing]

At least I don't get piss angry when people don't believe me.

[Loftwing]

E-1

[Loftwing]

i think anyone who straight up refuses to vote kyouko though is a perfectly valid counterwagon so keep the defense coming.

I mean.. I'm voting them.

[Loftwing]

Sure.

[Loftwing]

I mean, Ranny just hammered, so.

[Loftwing]

VOTE COUNT loftwing.9

With 16 players alive it takes 69 to eviscerate

Spoiler: You don't get access to the Vote Count.

ssbm_Kyouko (9): Almost50, NorwegianBoyEE, Dwlee99, Hakai, Andresvmb, DkKoba, Loftwing, Nero Cain, Rannygazoo,

cool cookie (2): Titus, LicketyQuickety,
Titus (1): cool cookie,
Dwlee99 (1): the worst,
NorwegianBoyEE (1):
Loftwing (1): MargotRosa,
DkKoba (1): ssbm_Kyouko,
Hakai (1): GrandpaMo,
Almost50 (0):
LicketyQuickety (0):
Nero Cain (0):
the worst (0):
GrandpaMo (0):
Andresvmb (0):
MargotRosa (0):
Rannygazoo (0):

Not voting (0):

Deadline: none

[Loftwing]

VOTE COUNT loftwing.10

With 16 players alive it takes 69 to eviscerate

Spoiler: You don't get access to the Vote Count.

ssbm_Kyouko (9): Almost50, NorwegianBoyEE, Dwlee99, Hakai, Andresvmb, DkKoba, Loftwing, Nero Cain, Rannygazoo,

cool cookie (2): Titus, LicketyQuickety,
Titus (1): cool cookie,
Dwlee99 (1): the worst,
NorwegianBoyEE (1):
Loftwing (1): MargotRosa,
DkKoba (1): ssbm_Kyouko,
Hakai (1): GrandpaMo,
Almost50 (0):
LicketyQuickety (0):
Nero Cain (0):
the worst (0):
GrandpaMo (0):
Andresvmb (0):
MargotRosa (0):
Rannygazoo (0):

Not voting (0):

Deadline: none

loftnotes:
The future is not kerSet in stone, but ssbm_Kyouko will be.

[Loftwing]

grandpa/ranny/dwlee/a50/norwee towncore on scumflip here

And on a townflip, this is also the towncore but this time we kill Koba