Mini 2241: The Neighborhood -- ENDGAME

[Dannflor]

VOTE: House

I'd vote unwnd if I had a second vote

[Dannflor]

VOTE: House

I'd vote unwnd if I had a second vote

Why would you vote unwnd? I've lost confidence in my own vote here and have been waiting for something interesting to happen, personally.

I will answer your question momentarily.

Can you explain why exactly you lost confidence in your vote? What did unwnd do that was towny?

[Dannflor]

okay to be honest I read your interaction as SvS

it felt like you were throwing unwnd softball questions and unwnd was answering them in a way that showed seemed to show 0 curiosity for your alignment but rather just to interact with you because you posted @ unwnd

granted that is my 2am gut read coming into full force but it felt like both sides there were a little performative

[Dannflor]

..You can make a readlist 69 posts in? lol

VOTE: unwnd

I like this one better at the moment though

[Dannflor]

Kazyan makes more sense for an unwnd partner IMO than House

I like Dannflor on this page

dangerously serious post for you pooky

[Dannflor]

schrödinger's dannflor

[Dannflor]

unwnd surely you've seen people make pre-emptive reads lists before?

what specifically is bothering you about them

what conclusions do you draw from these posts being out of place and pre-emptive

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Kaxyan

same

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Kazyan

I misspelled their name

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Kidamn

We switching it up

why here and why now

I wanted a third why question but it eludes me

[Dannflor]

Based on how quickly the wagon formed on me and the deal with Gork and Dann, there's maybe one scum on my wagon? VOTE: House?

can you connect these two statements together a little more for me? I'm not quite seeing how you're drawing the conclusion of "maybe one scum" from the former observations

[Dannflor]

Anyone else concerned we the the speed of kazyan's wagon?

If I had a dime for every time I saw this post in a mafia game I could probably buy a bus ticket

[Dannflor]

My own take is that they're fidgety and their opinions are overwrought.

this does not a scum player make

i often am fidgety with over-written opinions as town, I think this is more emblematic of the type of person Kazyan is

[Dannflor]

yeahhhhh

[Dannflor]

VOTE: dwlee

[Dannflor]

398 is kinda exactly what I thought about unwnd's initial "ew early reads lists" reaction

like yes, of course, reads lists on page 5 or whatever aren't necessarily the most useful. But people will make them anyway, probably regardless of alignment. They help show how people are thinking and propel the game forward

I don't fully understand why a player like unwnd has stopped at "these reads lists feel bad" instead of plumbing into what exactly about them feels bad or if any of their specifics reveal anything. I am trying to give you some benefit of the doubt because you came into this game saying you're exhausted but... it feels like very level 0 thinking. I am SURE there is more going on in your head if you are town but in that case it doesn't seem you are electing to share it

[Dannflor]

I'll give you that your vote on Kaz was more early, so I assume the way I described why I don't like Kaz is why you uh, do?

idk I mostly just voted Kaz because Gorkington did

I had a middling opinion of them before

I do think their posting somewhat improved under pressure though?

[Dannflor]

Sorry Gorkington, I don't have anything super smart to say about Kazyan's posts getting better

I mean if it helps I don't necessarily think they are town I just felt like this wagon was more interesting for the moment

I *did* like the part where they were like "I look evil every game on D1" on a very subjective tone gut level but beyond that I would simply be making up reasons retrospectively. I'm realizing now this is fairly unsatisfactory for me as well

I will get back to you on Kazyan pinky promise

[Dannflor]

pooky said it more honestly than me

[Dannflor]

Why shift off the Kazyan wagon?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: kazyan

[Dannflor]

sorry but kidamn wagon seems like a waste of time?

[Dannflor]

I think Kazyan is falling more under the umbrella of "townies who did outrageous things"

but I don't know where I'd rather like my vote at the moment

the kidamn wagon is a terrible waste of votes

[Dannflor]

gorkington, I think the likelihood of the worst/kazyan being partnered is extremely low

[Dannflor]

Anyone else concerned we the the speed of kazyan's wagon?

I think the wake's post is generally unlikely to come from a scum partner as... it looks very partnery on the surface. I don't know this statement/question by Wake is functionally meaningless because there are so many speedwagons especially on D1 that it's practically the site meta at this point and so many well meaning townies say things like that in response that it could easily be a townie saying something useless because they can't figure out what else to say. If it does come from scum I think it's more likely to be in a town!Kazyan world. That is precisely the type of statement scum loves to set up a town wagon that they think is somewhat likely to go through. It doesn't actually offer any meaningful resistance or provoke any thought about the wagon, it just positions wake as someone who was concerned about the wagon and will look better when they flip town.

if wake sees Kazyan getting run up like that, do they actually just make that post and be done? imo probably not, they probably hard push elsewhere or attack someone on the wagon or defend Kazyan. this extremely soft ball defense I think is more likely to come from scum wanting to look good.

continuing with the worst, he entered without a developed read on Kazyan but decided to defend him anyway. the worst is an experienced player so this doesn't hold up 100%, but very generally scum want to make sure their reads on partner's become very developed and detailed because those are the reads that most need to seem "real." the fact that the worst was basically just like, eh gut towny vibes, goes against that and I also find it believable given I've personally experienced Kazyan saying some similarly outrageous things in games before as town

[Dannflor]

the worst entered without a developed read on Kazyan but decided to defend them anyway*

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

Why would you not vote for the person who you think is Mafia

Like I think Pooky would do this even as town (I still think he's SK/delighting in being the villain; nice crumb), but Dann?

vote people you're null on so they panic and start making alignment tells

let's say you've found sk pooky. what are the rest of your reads - e.g. townreads?

If kidamn flips scum I claim conftown status

I'll pay that would be a *very* funny bus decision

VOTE: pooky

speaking of the worst, I do like this progression

[Dannflor]

the problem is I haven't actually seen Kazyan's scum game (and have no idea if they've ever actually rolled scum on here?) so I'm not sure what difference to be looking for here exactly

[Dannflor]

Ehh no

House/Azumarill/Dwlee is my poe right now

I don't know if i see them all as scum, though

where is murder cat

[Dannflor]

it's just not going to do anything for an indefinite amount of time

people can always go back to wagoning kidamn when kidamn comes back but... right now it's just an excuse to like not partake in the game

[Dannflor]

VOTE: pooky

[Dannflor]

why wouldn’t you vote murdercat

[Dannflor]

@gorkington, I am remembering this game where kazyan was 100% convinced I was scum for much of the game, it feels somewhat similar to their insistence on SK!Pooky although your mileage may vary as that game had comparatively less outrageous basis

[Dannflor]

I don't really care to defend Kazyan as a town read right now but I don't think purely "outrageous reads" like us as masons or Pooky as SK is necessarily a good basis alone for a scum read

[Dannflor]

so... i did not read 668, and thought 671 was a list of town to scum

and i was like wow the worst sure is uncharacteristically trusting of me

and then i realized he was fifth on the list

[Dannflor]

my scum game is not that good!! but thank you!!!

[Dannflor]

unwnd why are you hesitant to go after any bigger targets

[Dannflor]

it's not criticism really, i am sincerely wondering the answer to the question

like you don't town read me yet so why wouldn't you vote me today?

[Dannflor]

gamma and navi are scum together calling it now

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Navi

I would actually really like to elim this today

[Dannflor]

I think Kazyan might be town if only based on the sheer number of somewhat suspect people soft defending them

[Dannflor]

I think Navi is like dead null in a large number of reads lists (which is always a good starting place by itself), and I know people are generally more lenient with more cryptic/gimmick style posters as long as they actually post content, but the style of her content is not towny

specifically stuff like #149 and #183 reads like listing off observations until she has met an imagined "solvy" quota. there are no serious questions or direct engagements to other players in any of her posts beyond the #330 case on Pooky which really just exists to justify Navi being able to stick her vote somewhere.

overall, it's a type of posting that is very easy to skim over because it looks relatively towny but it's not really naturally towny? town doesn't naturally deliberately type out every step of their thoughts like in those first two posts I mentioned, it's very deliberate in a way that reads like someone trying to get town read rather than someone sharing some important thoughts they had.

house put it more succinctly than I with "forced tone" I suppose. There is a chance I am misreading this character or gimmick she is doing but I think even considering that there is a decent likelihood this flips red

[Dannflor]

VOTE: House

How about this? House has 96 posts and counting. Do you remember any one of them? I don't.

I think House is town probably

[Dannflor]

I have house, unwnd, gorkington as town

the worst is a very tentative town read but I have *paranoia*™ in some part because he feels way townier than I remember seeing him in recent memory? it's a really weird feeling that I can't quite pinpoint yet and just as easily is some problem on my end

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

VoteCount 1.8
Kazyan (they) [ 5 ] gorkington, dannflor, house, megazumarill, pookythemagicalbear
House (he) [ 1 ] the worst
Dwlee99 (they) [ 1 ] murdercat
KidAmn (he) [ 1 ] dwlee99
Pookythemagicalbear (he) [ 1 ] kazyan

Not Voting [ 4 ]
kidAmn, Navi, Unwnd, loftwing

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to be executed.

this was the height of the kazyan wagon

if kazyan is town I would not be surprised to see every scum off wagon here

[Dannflor]

The first 20 pages in the House ISO legitimately have no reads, or even a provoking gamestate thought. There's also a few excuses for the lack of aggression(?) somewhere in there. How he is being townread is beyond me.

unwnd that means he's not scum trying to look town

[Dannflor]

like I get it, I get where that read comes from to an extent, it feels similar to your wary thoughts about the early reads lists coming out, which I disagreed with as well

like yes logically house's content hasn't been overtly towny and early reads lists are terrible and bad rationally

but I think looking at house's actual behavior in who he has questioned and why and how he's responded to things shows someone who is letting a lot of genuine responses into the game instead of writing his posts with "trying appear town" in mind. similarly, humans behave irrationally and make early reads lists purely because its fun or because they think they have something special to share

[Dannflor]

The first 20 pages in the House ISO legitimately have no reads, or even a provoking gamestate thought. There's also a few excuses for the lack of aggression(?) somewhere in there. How he is being townread is beyond me.

unwnd that means he's not scum trying to look town

don't mind this generally.

i'm also anxious because town!house seems to have a deep profound want to look like town as well tbh

I do too! I get anxious when I'm not town read, albeit that's something I've been working on

but I do think there is a distinction because I think in the case of both house and myself you can find moments of much more readily unfiltered responses and movements through the thread more often than you can find them in say, our scum games

granted this is my diagnosis of house after seeing him in like one game but yknow im trying to be all confident in my reads and shit here so bear with me

[Dannflor]

...

VOTE: unwnd

Going where the wind blows, much?

unwnd is probably town

[Dannflor]

I actually like Megazu for town too but I'll revisit this when I'm not riding the high of people joining my pet wagon

[Dannflor]

I actually like Megazu for town too but I'll revisit this when I'm not riding the high of people joining my pet wagon

I DISAGREE WITH YOU SO MUCH THIS GAME AND IT'S FRUSTRATING ME

HOW IS SOMEONE NOT HAVING READS NEARING 1000 POSTS TOWNIE???

HELLO???? I CAN'T REMEMBER A SINGLE THOUGHT AZU MADE

I liked their post about Gamma mostly

it's not a super strong read and one I'll revisit but I'd disagree they don't have any reads or stances on the game

[Dannflor]

extremely happy about murdercat being a competing wagon

[Dannflor]

both good wagons, both scummy

please vote

[Dannflor]

we agree on something!

[Dannflor]

kinda wack reads

so naturally loftwing is towny

[Dannflor]

after thoroughly looking through your ISOs

show your work?

[Dannflor]

so naturally loftwing is towny

dannflor you cant just townread everyone who acts weird
this site is literally full of weirdos

More of both of you are individually suspicious after thoroughly looking through your ISOs

i feel like your read on me would feel a lot less stale if you had actually acknowledged my response to your isodive on me.

Yeah I was kinda making fun of myself here I’m not really sure where loftwing stands at the moment

[Dannflor]

I would like to think murdercat isn’t going to go “fine I’ll just retire” if he’s scum here but idk that’s also classic scum caught for wrong reasons behavior

[Dannflor]

VOTE: the worst

[Dannflor]

naked votes on the worst are hip and cool

[Dannflor]

VOTE: navi

[Dannflor]

sure we can kill isis or the worst

I don't really care which one, let's just pick one

gorkington you're not mean and actually one of the few people trying in this game

[Dannflor]

I briefly considered Isis was town because I thought she was maybe thinking about things and didn't really seem to care to try and stop the wagon on her

but I guess I'm not actually seeing evidence of the first and the latter is probably not AI

[Dannflor]

the worst scum reading me is kinda wack considering he also doesn't want to push me, feels like he's playing around me rather than playing with me

idk

just kill one

[Dannflor]

I would consider my vote and case to be chastisement in itself

[Dannflor]

Since when did you become a flip-pls person

this is a manifestation of my annoyance about this game and also self loathing for contributing to the low-effort gameplay on display here

[Dannflor]

also, i just said I pondered you twice?

[Dannflor]

actually maybe the worst doesn't even scum read me, it's unclear

[Dannflor]

Hm, so would you say your issue with me is more of a failure to do anything Townie rather than being guilty of doing anything affirmatively scummy?

no, that was pointedly not my issue with you. I believe you were actively scummy as Navi.

now that you've revealed as Isis it is more of the former, but that doesn't erase past wrongs. I was kinda waiting to see if when you started doing things as Isis if my opinion would change, but then you did nothing soooooo

[Dannflor]

But like anyway.. considering you're naked voting me when you could be doing more I feel like to some extent you're confirming my larger point.

I've cased you and the only thing you've done is say "I'm Isis"

I'm sorry but I don't give passes to players I like

I don't know what this argument is even supposed to accomplish. Yes I could be doing more, but I'm doing a lot more than some people

[Dannflor]

idk my scum game is such a meme I don't know how to critically view people talking about it

it is inconsistent at best, apocalypse was terrible, but I recently had purgatory which was ok

but like all that aside it really helps me zero to be talked about some nebulous scumspect but not because of any of my content. I haven't engaged the worst directly much I guess but again it's sort of like the feeling like he's playing around me or waiting to see what I do. I can see that coming from a town perspective but it's blurry for me

[Dannflor]

Dann my initial problem with you is that I was wondering what invoked your spirit. Earlier this game I was waiting for that moment where you'd integrate yourself into the thread instead of popping up once in a while to say something. You're still doing that, but I feel your stances more clearer. I'm not going to pretend I have the cheat sheet to your scum meta but I do feel your towngame is way more pronounced, but maybe the climate of the game itself or your own internals is making you less representative?

Honestly, this might be unsatisfactory, but I don't really know how to answer this question. I'm really bad at self-analysis when it comes to my play.

I do know I often start out games regardless of alignment with quite a bit of distance, but usually I find something to latch onto and draw me before too much time has elapsed. The games in which I get most frustrated in are the ones where I can't find what I need to latch onto, whether it be through my own lack of effort/demotivation, or the game just being hard to read.

this game.... I haven't really felt the need to show that I am town, i guess? that tends to be another motivator for me. I mean people have been like "lol dann deepwolf" but no one has seriously pushed me. and until navi there was nothing that I really felt good about pushing that I felt I needed to get people on my side for. my stances are probably becoming more clear now because they are becoming more clear to myself.

I'm feeling a little bit more strongly about things in general and that's helping fuel my energy. idk does that help?

[Dannflor]

to summarize Isis, yes you haven't done anything recently, and I wouldn't necessarily have a huge problem with that beyond maybe chiding you if that was all I was worried about. but I thought when you were navi you were scummy. You made this big revelation you were isis and i was like, ok now we're gonna get more unfiltered isis thoughts and maybe I can recalibrate my read, but then that didn't happen which means I kinda just have to fall back on my navi read. does that make sense?

I'm also curious how seriously you're considering me as scum right now or if you just said that out of some annoyance for being pushed

[Dannflor]

also I would say my go-to strategy as town when I'm uninvested is to usually just back up/support my #1 town read

in this case, I tried to bolster gorkington's pushes because I was hoping they would spark something more. I guess my read on Kazyan got mildly clearer but nothing really happened beyond my read on gorkington getting stronger

[Dannflor]

I think it'd really weird for your take on th game to be that me and worst are tied. Worst is like, highly motivated, had some footholds on some reads, it just actually scum. I like. Attempted a couple AI observations about the game, didn't coalesce them into a campaign for the game or even remember them, and then started ignoring everyone except the people who might kill me. Why aren't I a strong preference

the answers lies somewhere in the realm of my self-confidence as a mafia player or lack thereof

[Dannflor]

all of the mentions of "dann could be mafia" and "pooky should be killed today" didnt really seem like functional things to mention from someone who wants to actually accomplish something. if duck wanted a pooky wagon i feel like asking people to join it or asking why people are or are not scumreading pooky is the way to go about accomplishing that, but i dont really think thats happened at all.

i also think pooky's right that compared to that other game where the duck was focused and trying to push wagons, this game theres too many feathers and not enough substance.

I don't put too much stock on the worst being like "lol dann deepwolf" because like it's a meme, but including me in potential team lists while ostensibly town reading me (??) is interesting because it feels like a different approach to my slot than he's ever taken before.

you can either confirm nor deny that, the worst? like I recall a mini normal not too long ago where you actually genuinely pushed me D1 to try to get a read on me and I kinda pushed you back and we came apart with accurate reads on each other. but here I don't get how you're treating me or what you're looking for from me.

[Dannflor]

Last time you got n1ed Dannn

and I believe that was a horrible mistake and Dusa should have been killed

[Dannflor]

that was a weird post

[Dannflor]

ok

VOTE: the worst

[Dannflor]

Last time you got n1ed Dannn

and I believe that was a horrible mistake and Dusa should have been killed

Dusa almost got limmed tho there's that

people just like to run up gimmick alts

[Dannflor]

VOTE: LLD
I'll consolidate when I have to but I want bragging rights of having my vote on scum D1

?????

Her content on replace in is scummy

so there's like two posts I'd deem content

can you elaborate?

[Dannflor]

I will be more engaged when I feel more strongly about things. Right now I don't even feel completely solid forming a poe so I'm just kinda trudging along

C'mon dwlee, perk up.

VOTE: dwlee

Too early to be demoralized.

No

It isn't demoralized btw, it's just a lack of strong feels

Feeling a little down that your easy elimination for later got replaced with someone notoriously difficult to murder?

I get it, it's okay. The scum QT must be really quiet for you to be this sad out here though.

This one actually bad though (I just had to post that image)

I’m sorry to pile on the questions here, but I have to ask, why did you assume this initial post by LLD was like 100% serious? I’m not saying it wasn’t but I don’t think that would’ve been my first reaction

[Dannflor]

I’m not sure that litigating this specific point is the best use of either of your time at the moment

[Dannflor]

I’m sorry to pile on the questions here, but I have to ask, why did you assume this initial post by LLD was like 100% serious? I’m not saying it wasn’t but I don’t think that would’ve been my first reaction

I don't think it comes across as a joke at all. The tone is completely serious

Ehhhh I don’t mean a joke necessarily

Just like I feel there is definitely some hyperbole here that she is using to poke at you, she didn’t assume you were 100% scum off those two posts as she has self admitted

I guess I’m just struggling to see what your initial problem was because to me it just reads like she’s poking at you

[Dannflor]

I’m not sure that litigating this specific point is the best use of either of your time at the moment

I happen to agree.

What's your read on Dwlee? Because at this point, I'm seeing a lot of possible faked anger, starting from the initial fuck off to now, that I think might be AtE deflection.

I’ll get back to you on my read, they’ve been heavily null territory for the bulk of the game

I think regardless of alignment their emotion here is real, whether incredulous town or scum caught for the wrong reasons

[Dannflor]

That aggressive poking is scummy. That's the entire point. And notice how she is using this push on me to try to reach out into the rest of the game. It's tunnel -> interact by asking opinions on me. It's an inorganic way to get engaged because it's focusing on a specific spot to generate content on cause it's much easier to just post about one person than 12.

None of that really explains to me why that’s scummy, unfortunately.

Most of the ways I try to interact with the game as town upon entering are frankly inorganic

I’m just not making the leap from aggressive poking to scum, because also aggressive poking is just like a hallmark of LLD’s play. It feels like you’re poking at a play style thing here, and tbh the argument that scum has done this to you before doesn’t hold a lot of water for me and I don’t think it should for you either

[Dannflor]

don't really feel that either dwlee or LLD are scum here

[Dannflor]

the worst scum reading me is kinda wack considering he also doesn't want to push me, feels like he's playing around me rather than playing with me

idk

just kill one

tbf this is what ur doing to the entire game

?

[Dannflor]

idk my scum game is such a meme

defining characteristic of your scum game is that you post well and are sociable particularly v early game - there's more holes later but your day one polarity is extremely low

tell that to the large apocalypse

[Dannflor]

anyway, not really relevant

I'll grant you I probably haven't broken my scum range yet or anything

I thought you were provisionally town reading me but I take it null-PoE is more accurate

[Dannflor]

Blahhhh I kinda just want to go back to my Navi wagon

[Dannflor]

the worst, when you get back from your stroll, what about the dwlee push did you find nonsensical?

I feel it made some sense as someone who raised a couple eyebrows at dwlee pushing LLD and that seems to be where we are most diverging atm

[Dannflor]

can you put some words to the navi read?

[Dannflor]

I don't think I've ever seen Isis like this period

[Dannflor]

the worst, when you get back from your stroll, what about the dwlee push did you find nonsensical?

i literally don't relate to any of it. i don't know how to start picking it apart, because it's just yelling about surface level observations which are painted in a scummy way.

do you disagree? could you show me what you're seeing there?

I don't know man like dwlee's reaction to LLD's entrance was weird??? I feel? I don't necessarily think it is scummy now but like I sure as hell understand poking at that and pushing for more

this feels a lot like team mafia when LLD pushed Hercule or whoever for like not the most airtight reasons but then hercule's reactions were what sealed the deal. That feels like what LLD was fishing for here, although I don't think dwlee had anywhere near the same type of reaction

also I feel you can read along with the questions I was asking dwlee during that whole back and forth to kinda see where I was agreeing with LLD. I also get not really agreeing with it, but I don't understand where you are reading scummy out of it

[Dannflor]

kazyan is town tho?

[Dannflor]

sure we can kill isis or the worst

I don't really care which one, let's just pick one

gorkington you're not mean and actually one of the few people trying in this game

Hi, you were in situation room, do you know who Dusa was, I thought she was Isis but Isis-as-Navi deconfirmed that

I believe Dusa outed in one of the situation rooms

[Dannflor]

uhhhh, I mean I was kinda distant that game I guess, but I don't really think it's that similar

why does that matter?

[Dannflor]

why

this is like the first and only time you've tried to sort me and it is in an incredibly soft ball(?) way

[Dannflor]

I'm just unclear what I'm supposed to do with like #1613 or #1616 other than just be like... ok

It's fine if you don't town read me right now, I would hope you'd be trying to get in my head a little more if you were unsure, but regardless telling me you will never be able to trust me this game because of your gut does feels a little bit like you're just setting up for always having the option to turn on me versus actually trying to figure out my slot?

anyway

cool i guess

[Dannflor]

In my experience, scum tends to be hyper aware of their reads. Like, they want a clear trajectory or if not a trajectory than to make it very clear they are doing a random gut “townie” flip on someone.

Unwnd could be scum but I feel like I need more than that and whatever pooky is selling

Idk I just woke up and will reread it but that’s my initial impression

[Dannflor]

I could do Gamma

Still think I prefer Navi but that’s just my own stubbornness

Sorry I’m really strapped for time right now and won’t be writing any novels, will try to be back in full tonight

[Dannflor]

I don't think there's a lot of reconsidering going around in general

[Dannflor]

the worst, what was your reasoning behind not protecting gorkington? I thought he was the most obvious kill, or was it just WIFOM

[Dannflor]

I kinda think gorkington not dying here further implicates Kazyan town

[Dannflor]

where is your head at?

I don't know. sorry. still trying to sort through stuff and I promise the pithy one liners will stop soon

I have like this weak line of [gork, unwnd, kazyan, house] town and beyond that I just can't say anything right now

[Dannflor]

house is maybe premature and goes in the pooky tier of like probably town by play but like if they were scum I would just heavily sigh instead of freak out

[Dannflor]

are we taking it at face value that mafia shot unwnd last night? because i have a lot of problems with that assessment

no not necessarily, but I think it's within the realm of possibility

like unwnd is a fine shot to make if you are very ok with the status quo

[Dannflor]

tbh i don't think a wagon is going to make murdercat "come alive" considering his reaction to the last wagon

if he gets back into the game it'll be of his own volition and not because 20+ pages have been generated and suddenly there's a wagon on him

[Dannflor]

shot over players like kazyan

huh?

[Dannflor]

House, why did you feel the need to case MC here?

[Dannflor]

okay sorry let me rephrase, why did you choose to ISO him now and address his posts from early d1?

I'm not accusing you of anything to be clear just curious

[Dannflor]

why do you find reading gamma difficult?

[Dannflor]

Gamma, why has Meg felt shady to you

[Dannflor]

I've developed a secret read but don't have the means to pursue it

the means are always in your posession

[Dannflor]

Gamma, my concern with you at the moment is that most of your takes (especially recently) look like regurgitations of whatever the thread is saying at the time

i seem to remember you also had some reads that went against consensus like me!scum but you're not really putting up a fight there at all?

[Dannflor]

I think I disagree with the way you play mafia unwnd

[Dannflor]

Gamma, why has Meg felt shady to you

The way she's sorting slots seems to be indicative of low-level scum (which while it's harsh to say, that is how I rate her rn)

why does she feel like the best target to you atm

[Dannflor]

what exactly did I post today that changed or started changing your mind?

[Dannflor]

probably the loudest and clearest thing that I remember happening D1 was gorkington pushing Kazyan

I think gorkington's pushes are always going to be given some credence because of the universality of the town reads on him. usually, that means high night kill bait. now he could just be so obvious that scum don't want to risk getting their kill blocked or what have you, but the other explanation is that they are mostly *fine* not killing gorkington because he's wrong on one or more major things. I think the most prolific take he had D1 was kazyan!scum and I think Kazyan is a slot that even if a lot of people town read them right *now*, could come back into question later.

[Dannflor]

I just usually tend towards transparency as town and I find few situations where hiding information actually helps

it's also a little ? that in a situation where you've been targeted for a NK once already presumably that you are willing to risk taking a read you presumably feel good about and that is important enough to talk about to the grave with you

[Dannflor]

I feel like the simplest answer to the worst's alignment at this point is that he's just town

so I'm willing to run with [Kazyan, the worst, unwnd, Pooky, Gorkington, House] all as some degrees of town

which leaves me with the rather disturbing pile of [LLD, dwlee, Gamma, Meg, MC]

as far as LLD, sorry the worst but your case doesn't really do anything for me. I do agree has LLD's entrance was LAMIST in one sense, which is I think the main thing you are driving at, but I don't think that's particularly alignment indicative from what I know about her playstyle. I don't by any means think she has stepped outside of her scum range but nothing about the actions she's taken have really screamed scum to me, they've all been reasonable actions I think fit her town MO of trying to make shit happen and assert herself as town.

dwlee just seems kinda lost. I don't have a good sense of where they want to go today or what they want to do. I'm hesitant to just mark that as towny though because this is a weird game state in general and I could see scum being a little frozen right now

MC, I mostly agree with the worst's analysis on his play. I don't really think he's done much alignment indicative

this Gamma / Meg back and forth feels really weird to me? I don't really have a good grasp of why Gamma thinks Meg is scum and Meg's reaction to Gamma pushing them is like weirdly non-existent? idk I guess I still have nothing of value to say about these slots

I will state that it's weird Gamma started feeling better or less uneasy today about me because I feel my posts have been particularly contentless today and I'm sort of wondering if that's an attempt to get approved by the thread consensus more. but that observation is liable to conf bias and the fact I don't have an objective view of my own presence

[Dannflor]

VOTE: gamma

[Dannflor]

Okay so we kill kazyan today???

[Dannflor]

idk I think I just want to know what the worst wants to do

[Dannflor]

fuck it ill sheep my homie pooky after every1 else checks in

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

imo just resolving in that trio/quad is best ? it doesn't really matter if the worst dies

but dannflower is weak mechanically so shrug

I'm fine with no elim or whatever but I'd like to give a chance for like gorkington to at least check in

[Dannflor]

concerned there's no cw. no elim might be town.

is anyone else concerned by the speed of this wagon???

[Dannflor]

ok why dont we just like lim then

[Dannflor]

why does that read like PR speak

[Dannflor]

unwnd to be honest I find it a little disturbing that you are making such a show out of not revaluating gamma/kazyan

I'm not saying you should be reevaluating but the whole "I will die on this gamma hill" and "wow kazyan must be godlike scum if they are scum" feels... performative

[Dannflor]

the worst/unwnd being scum together is a hilarious world

[Dannflor]

Also, if anyone is hedging on me rn Gork, it's you.

You open the post saying that you think I have partner equity

and end the post hmming and hawwing about uncertainties and how I've been treated this game.

That's hedging.

but like does this observation mean anything to you

[Dannflor]

Wow gamma is making me want to kill him

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Kazyan

I will also say I’m losing faith in my house town read!

[Dannflor]

Okay yeah tw is clearly posting like Betrayal in this game rather than 2170.
VOTE: Kazyan
I don’t think a no-kill gambit happened so atp I’m fine with assuming unwnd town.

ugh this sudden reversal makes my stomach queasy

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

Spoiler: 20. when lld gets killed on n2 of the neighborhood mafia game

[Dannflor]

I feel like even with all the extra time I don't really have any better idea of what's going on than I did mid-yesterday

[Dannflor]

unwnd what have you got

[Dannflor]

night event being weird?

[Dannflor]

I'm not sure if House actually thinks this or if like this is scum doing an exaggerated impression of what they think town should think

probably doesn't help I'm nearly as lost as pooky

the assumption that there is ever a scenario where scum let gamma get results if they have a choice is just really weird?? when does scum ever just let an investigation go off?

now i will admit i am still weirded out by the lld kill and the worst's continued survival but I don't feel "there's a guilty on murdercat" is really the most obvious train of logic from that?

[Dannflor]

okay but like I can't keep thinking this with everyone in the game

[Dannflor]

it's not house that's bugging me specifically I think

it's just I've come to that conclusion for an uncomfortably high number of people this game it feels and some of it has to not be genuine I feel

house probably still is town but I feel like I can't just take it for granted

[Dannflor]

I mean Kazyan as scum makes an LLD kill make kinda sense?

it's like weirdly obvious and still kinda ???????? but like there has to be a *reason* for the kill and I think if you want a kill that's just not gonna shift the status quo without getting blocked there are better targets

[Dannflor]

hey so wait if unwnd was rolestopped on the same night gamma investigated unwnd, shouldn't he have gotten no result? why wasn't this outted yesterday?

[Dannflor]

I guess it like doesn't really matter but I'm trying to get better at m e c h a n i c s here

[Dannflor]

i had a sneaking suspicion he was just scum fakeclaiming

was the sneaking suspicion that he should not have gotten a result?????????

[Dannflor]

lol

i for one am laughing out loud

[Dannflor]

I kind of think duckie is derping as town here

I hope?

No gotchas? I don't need egg on my face

no I'm with you

this game is funny

[Dannflor]

I was so sure I was just wrong about how roles worked

anyway

VOTE: gamma

[Dannflor]

the duality of me like, playing up my overconfident mafia god duck persona while not realising i had a guilty on gamma is my new fav thing
i wish i was playing on wooper rn for the title

do you have any other guilties you're not sharing

[Dannflor]

I feel very responsible for killing isis! no one should be self loathing more than me!

i am starting to feel the LLD kill sorta points towards kazyan because wtf else does it point to

[Dannflor]

yeah gamma basically refused to vote kazyan

[Dannflor]

Gamma/Kaz/Dwlee

I've solved this game it was all me

Superstar

if this is true this is like an anti-mafia game

half-hearted climax / subverts all expectations / questionable themes

like an artsy book you study in literature class

[Dannflor]

meg I thought you were about to claim a result there

[Dannflor]

I watched some clips of House the show today for the first time ever and House's posting vaguely reminds of the character so that's my reasoning for town reading him

[Dannflor]

i guess my hot take is that meg is probably town

but i guess that's not too hot if people are settling on kazyan/gamma/dwlee

but i want you to know I got there for post game cred!!1!

[Dannflor]

yeah lld was firmly in my LLD which is why it like makes zero sense as a kill unless there's at least some benefit to removing her from the game

[Dannflor]

in my POE*

I need to go to bed