Mini 2241: The Neighborhood -- ENDGAME

[Gorkington]

VOTE: wake88
kill

[Gorkington]

VOTE: unwnd
KILL

[Gorkington]

whats the opportunity that you think im trying to get

[Gorkington]

whats wrong with pushing wagons this early

[Gorkington]

cool i wasnt the only one with that feeling at one point

[Gorkington]

thats the flor of his read on you

[Gorkington]

is there a reason that it feels like youre taking this game at arms length rn

[Gorkington]

Unwnd's aggressiveness right out of the gate is giving me townpings.

can i get words on why you saw unwnd's opening as being aggressive

Yes and the reasons are unrelated to the game in particular

fair.
do you think its likely that if you are left alone youll eventually be townread this cycle?

[Gorkington]

ya.
im not sure why you would subsequently vote him for behaviour in that period if you thought he was slayer gambitting though.

[Gorkington]

oh or are you saying thats what you were doing okay

[Gorkington]

isnt the conclusion of slayers gambit that people who go after it are more likely scum than not?

[Gorkington]

Are you familiar with Slayer's Gambit?

He wasn't. Pooky did something very akin to a Slayer's Gambit, so i was watching the interactions.

Initially, unwnd seemed like he was going water Pooky for the claim, but when he started why he wasn't going to vote for Pooky, I misread his post as saying he didn't want to attract attention to himself, and I was like, okay then... that's a scum claim.

at the risk of being tedious can you pull which specific posts made you go
"ah yes this is an aggressive person doing an aggressive thing which makes me think theyre town"
from before post 37

i dont really feel like the explanation of the mistake covers what gave you that initial impression.

p-edit: are there reads that youre currently holding close to chest right now or are the readlists the main thing that youre like "dang this is the worst feeling thing that ive seen in the game so far"

[Gorkington]

p-edit: are there reads that youre currently holding close to chest right now or are the readlists the main thing that youre like "dang this is the worst feeling thing that ive seen in the game so far"

this is to unwnd if unclr.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: kazyan

dont worry its for opportunistic reasons completely unrelated to the ones unwnd is talking about.

[Gorkington]

meh i guess i kind of feel like trying to push a wagon right now.

kaz has some really surface level questions early that feel like there isnt enough internal process/meat behind them:

Real talk, is this an actual scumtell for Pooky? I kinda have awful reads on him historically, so I wanna know.

Pooky, does unwnd do this as scum? By 'this' I mean jump out with an accusation.

this conclusion is kind of showy:

Teeny tiny townping from Megazumarill btw

this conclusion is too strong and feels like a mathematical approach to reads in a way that i associate with mafia-play:

+town for wanting to solve

and i dont like that there wasnt any kind of attempt to interact with me beyond answering my questions. feels more like appeasement than someone who is trying to sort someone that theyre scumreading.

p-edit: beat me to it.

[Gorkington]

or i guess i already voted im still winning.

[Gorkington]

unwnd wagon feels pointless because hes not going to seriously react to it unless we want to kill him and hes likely going to be more readable over time if/once he does get engaged.

house wagon feels meh because hes going to have lots of content regardless of whether theres a wagon there or not and i personally cant say with any confidence right now as to whether weirdness there is scummy or town weirdness.

there now the only viable wagon is this one, sorry folks i dont make the rules i just make people feel bad for not following them.

[Gorkington]

Gorkington why did you forget your vote? Would you forget if you were evil?

im pretty tired today, i momentarily just felt like dannflor stole my thunder on voting for kaz and then i remembered that i had literally just actually voted for him and was just expanding on the vote with the post i was making.
and idk i dont like to think about what i would do if i were evil.

Have we played, before?

It sounds like we've played, before.

ya a bunch probably mostly on my main account which is cheet. oh no the cats out of the bag now.

also would still appreciate an answer to the question.

[Gorkington]

at the risk of being tedious can you pull which specific posts made you go
"ah yes this is an aggressive person doing an aggressive thing which makes me think theyre town"
from before post 37

this one, was worried about being EXTRA TEDIOUS by quoting it yet again but then again maybe this was the true tedious outcome.

[Gorkington]

well that certainly seems likely i guess.

[Gorkington]

m pretty tired today, i momentarily just felt like dannflor stole my thunder on voting for kaz and then i remembered that i had literally just actually voted for

them

*

sorry about this, self-callout.

[Gorkington]

page3rd

meh i guess i kind of feel like trying to push a wagon right now.

kaz has some really surface level questions early that feel like there isnt enough internal process/meat behind them:

Real talk, is this an actual scumtell for Pooky? I kinda have awful reads on him historically, so I wanna know.

Pooky, does unwnd do this as scum? By 'this' I mean jump out with an accusation.

this conclusion is kind of showy:

Teeny tiny townping from Megazumarill btw

this conclusion is too strong and feels like a mathematical approach to reads in a way that i associate with mafia-play:

+town for wanting to solve

and i dont like that there wasnt any kind of attempt to interact with me beyond answering my questions. feels more like appeasement than someone who is trying to sort someone that theyre scumreading.

unwnd wagon feels pointless because hes not going to seriously react to it unless we want to kill him and hes likely going to be more readable over time if/once he does get engaged.

house wagon feels meh because hes going to have lots of content regardless of whether theres a wagon there or not and i personally cant say with any confidence right now as to whether weirdness there is scummy or town weirdness.

there now the only viable wagon is this one, sorry folks i dont make the rules i just make people feel bad for not following them.

if you want to keep voting house aggressively you should be casing him at this point.

[Gorkington]

@dwlee

[Gorkington]

dwlee's pronouns are they/them just as a heads up

[Gorkington]

dangit i mistook rvs confidence for serious confidence

[Gorkington]

im making little baby kindergartener moves this game 4 sure.

p-edit: is that weirdness necessarily scummy though? if so why?

[Gorkington]

alright,
give me a shout when you want to go level 99 and wreck shit.

[Gorkington]

oo oo i can tell you

its because im buddying dannflor because i respect his game a lot and am hoping/excited that this might be his towngame because working with townhim would probably be fun.

[Gorkington]

also, at the risk of just doing my usual tunneling/confbias shit
i feel like neither conclusion being made about loft or unwnd is a natural/genuine train of thought.

[Gorkington]

Everyone does tunneling/confbias shit tbh

meh im usually particularly bad for it.
i try to make up for it by engaging in a way that moves the game in a useful way.

is there a particular reason youre engaging the wagon indirectly (ie: my case post/not picking directly at what you dislike about house's vote)?
why would the wagon's speed be surprising given the way that i pushed it?

[Gorkington]

its playing badly on purpose to get reactions, usually with the intent that mafia will vote for you because youre an easy target.

[Gorkington]

well when you put it in a way that makes me worried ive been stupid for not seeing it up until this point
yeah sure maybe.

[Gorkington]

I mean, if you say "I'm deliberately going to use a different playstyle than my usual way of being town and it's all going according to plan if I get voted", I kind of have to vote for you because that's the exact ass-covering that I used in my one scumgame.

which post/posts are you referring to here?

[Gorkington]

did you miss that he'd mentioned that he was intentionally switching his playstyle up this game before?

[Gorkington]

this convo feels unnecessary but i could just be old and bitter and etc.

[Gorkington]

We switching it up

nuh uh!
when you have a sec can you give me thoughts on a kaz isodive if that isnt a ridiculous request :v

[Gorkington]

[Gorkington]

no.

[Gorkington]

hi ducko whats the status on your catchup?

[Gorkington]

your strongest stance youre taking with your catchup is that kaz is just flat out town
dont you think more effort is due for trying to derail the wagon there? or are you working on a post trying to do that rn?

[Gorkington]

well gosh if you didnt want to put effort into a game maybe you shouldnt have replaced in jeeze gosh wow!

but ya it certainly seems like something that would be productive for your purposes and also for everyone else's purposes of trying to get a read on your slot.

[Gorkington]

heres your schedule for today:
8-830am - wake up and brush your teeth
830-4pm - defend kazyan from certain death
4-415pm - coffee break
415-9pm - defend yourself from certain death
9pm-whenever - sleep or something idk

[Gorkington]

im not being lazy so i must be very town.

[Gorkington]

talking about your kazyan read is starting to look like a mighty appealing alternative all of a sudden huh
(:

[Gorkington]

you have the added bonus in that if you convince me that you and kazyan are town then im a dog with nothing to chase and dwlee is not a townread.

[Gorkington]

I do think their posting somewhat improved under pressure though?

can you talk about why?
i thought that the trajectory on the house read was really bad.

the scatteredness in response to pressure also kind of felt like deer in headlights scum defeatism (especially in comparison to how they opened the game) but its sounding like thats more NAI for them? (this is an open invitation for anyone /w kaz experience to hit me with words on this)

[Gorkington]

infamy is also a thing. S:

[Gorkington]

why prioritize voting someone you think is SK over someone you think is mafia?

[Gorkington]

we could hope that pooky shoots mafia.

[Gorkington]

Are you actually claiming SK to clear yourself against a Day 1 yeet

Because I can see a few problems with that

do you think pooky thought he was in serious enough of trouble via your pressure to have to claim SK to keep himself alive?

[Gorkington]

oh youre not mafia?

[Gorkington]

thats how you know its true. town pooky would claim SK for sure.

[Gorkington]

kaz is probably an end of day kinda wagon and people want to do the whole think we can sort the entire playerlist D1, get to page 100 and hate ourselves thing.
which like yeah fair, been there and done that for seven years of mafia.

[Gorkington]

plus theres 2-3 players that will either become more active, replace out or become officially classified as "lurkers" so that they can get officially ridiculed.

so its not all bad.

[Gorkington]

You can't do a blatantly scum-driven wagon like that twice in one day phase but that's none of my business

is there a reason youre being non specific with who is doing all of these things or is it just all five of the people who were on your wagon

[Gorkington]

VOTE: vote: kidamn
ok sure yeah be active so we can read you or else. rah rah rah

[Gorkington]

ya i feel the same way

[Gorkington]

Overall, Gorkington seems more laid back and uninterested in the game at this time.

i dont understand how you can look at the section of the game where i was driving it and claim that i seemed disinterested?

It feels like something that scum would do if they didn't care about the answers they were given. It's also a bit snarky, but that's not relevant.

i find it very hard not to be snarky with someone im scumreading and im making an active effort to not do that this game.

i was poking the worst about kaz coming off wake's really awkward interaction with the wagon on them. i dont really think it should be that hard to understand why i wanted the worst to expand a read there when kaz has been my strongest scumread.

[Gorkington]

i cant believe nobody has called out how fake kaz's last readlist was q_q

[Gorkington]

this is the reason i suspect kaz-wake

theres also that the worst is asking kaz questions when hes townreading them and his entry was just focused on derailing the the kaz wagon.
he was really dismissive of a kidamn vote so you would think he would be as interested in trying to direct traffic onto dwlee still but for some reason that effort has stopped now that the kaz wagon has fizzled.

kidamn can you make a post please.

[Gorkington]

either one is acceptable.

also im dumb the worst is voting pooky but the point still stands that it feels like hes become less interested in trying to move things around now that the kaz wagon is dead.

[Gorkington]

I sure do love to see people sheeping Pooky's cries of "partner!" when I townread someone and "OMGUS!" when I don't. FFS this game is so scum-led it hurts. Do you guys have any reads that aren't related to me?

a) ive been reading you/the worst as partnered since before wake replaced
b) i have lots of reads i just dont share them for free
c) again with the indirect "all the people scumreading me are mafia but im not willing to commit to it bit by actually calling specific people mafia"-bit.

to expand on c) it feels like literally every read that kaz is pushing in this game is based on a bit.
house was town because trying to solve.
loftwing is town because aloof and daydreaming.

house is mafia because of the gimmick thing.
pooky is serial killer because he "softed it".
people pushing them are mafia because theyre pushing him and mafia is strongarming the game.

all of these are concepts that seem plausible, but do you actually really believe that kaz believes them if you actually sit and think about how reads are genuinely formed?
idk im probably not conveying it well but it just seems really obvious to me >_>

I think it'd be cool if the solve was kaz-kidamn-the worst but I don't really believe in that

i historically have a bad track record of identifying partners so im not actually particularly confident about my feelings about kaz-the worst logically even though my gut is like RARARA KILL THEM BOTH!!!

[Gorkington]

people pushing them are mafia because theyre pushing

them

and mafia is strongarming the game.

im being really bad for this in this game bah!~!! sorry.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: kaz

if kidamn prod dodges or makes bad posts before the replacement timer is hit i will functionally help vote there again but i feel like im not playing the game properly if im not voting who i think is mafia.

p-edit: its not really that i think theyre wrong.
its that i dont believe that they believe what they believe because the reasoning feels like a caricature of town reasoning and not actual town reasoning.

[Gorkington]

its that i dont believe that they believe what theyre saying they believe

[Gorkington]

i think theres a difference between someone saying something that is so preposterous that it seems like it cant be a town thought process and someone continually using what i would loosely call gimmicks to justify their reads.
someone can believe things that i cant follow at all, but i could think that they seem genuinely convinced about them even though i think they could be wrong about something.
mafia is going to have a harder time creating genuine sounding hunting.
town is just going to try to do it.

if someone seems fake when theyre trying to push someone, to me thats a really good starting point.

[Gorkington]

or at least if its not then i would have literally 0 idea of where to even start with trying to find mafia because its literally how i play lol.

[Gorkington]

How am I supposed to take this seriously

its partially a joke so you dont really have to take it seriously.
im not dumping all of my reads in the thread because i feel the only ones that are valuable to expand on are my scumreads.

That's not why I think he's a serial killer I have told people my actual reason for it twice

where is the reasoning
just that hes voting for anyone?
lots of people vote a lot on D1. making wagons early in the game is useful, its how you generate readable content.

you're saying I'm mafia because I'm telling you the reasons for my reads I fucking

this isnt what im saying. im saying that i dont believe any angle youve taken on any read this game.
everything is flimsy cardboard paperthin and i dont believe the way youve changed your mind on things like your house read.
i dont really think any of your engagement with other players is trying to do anything and is instead just there to make people think that youre being productive.

p-edit:

if kidamn prod dodges or makes bad posts before the replacement timer is hit i will functionally help vote there again but i feel like im not playing the game properly if im not voting who i think is mafia.

im also not really comfortable leaving kidamn on l-1 when kaz could read the room and lolhammer to save themselves.

[Gorkington]

wait thats me not dwlee
yeesh im scattered this game.

if kidamn prod dodges or makes bad posts before the replacement timer is hit i will functionally help vote there again but i feel like im not playing the game properly if im not voting who i think is mafia.

[Gorkington]

I think you and Dann are masons. You were moving in lockstep but I saw you two do it in reverse orders, and that makes me think you can communicate on the side.

why was this your inclination rather than that dannflor and i are coordinating in a scum pt

[Gorkington]

idk even if i think kazyan is really likely to be mafia and im not necessarily being mean i am a little on edge about making the game entirely unpleasant for them.
how does one reconcile not making someone feel bad and trying to lim them zzzzz

[Gorkington]

on this last page the top of 575, and 591/594 were directed at you, the rest was written with the intention of casing you to other players, so, that is more or less what i am trying to do.

[Gorkington]

idk im a little worried about being too controlling this game.
assuming dannflor is town here it reads more like hes voting to appease me rather than genuinely seeing what im seeing with kazyan so im wondering if i should just backseat and deal with what im seeing on kazyan not being something that other people are seeing.

i would just be frustrated if we lol-limmed kidamn when hes not even here when we may just get a replacement/he may show back up if we wait.

[Gorkington]

there is a high correlation between flaking/inactivity/replacement and being scumbag so I'm down with taking a shot on KidA besides its kind of funny to watch Kazy tilt

ya i think that his slot should be grilled when theres someone there to receive the pressure, i just hate the idea of flipping an empty slot when theres a high chance of it being self resolving in a short period of time.

[Gorkington]

youre probably right.

[Gorkington]

if you can find a way to explain that to the illogical part of my gut i would be extremely in your debt.

[Gorkington]

If it does come from scum I think it's more likely to be in a town!Kazyan world.

bleh, true.
i feel like seeing obviously linked things as being partner interactions is something that i need to recognize isnt actually reliable (and probably net-unreliable?) no matter how much it feels like it should be.

if multiple people are attesting to this being normal for kazyan then i can try a reset/do some isodives when i have some time.

[Gorkington]

Ehh no

House/Azumarill/Dwlee is my poe right now

I don't know if i see them all as scum, though

kida isnt in your poe?

[Gorkington]

I also find it believable given I've personally experienced Kazyan saying some similarly outrageous things in games before as town

can you describe what sorts of outrageous things youve seen them get pushed for in the past?

[Gorkington]

i can see why it seems like thats what im saying
but the point isnt that the reads are outrageous, its that theres so many reads that feel like kazyan is picking a gimmick to justify, rather than them just believing that a player is mafia or town and having reasoning to back it up.

[Gorkington]

like, look at the vote on house.
kazyan says that its likely theres scum on their wagon and then votes house, who they had initially been townreading.

they then look and pull a gimmick justification for house being mafia. it just doesnt look like an actual organic thing where kazyan read back and was like "oh snap house said this thing hes scum!". theyre looking for justification for the vote after theyve already made it and overplay the confidence to the point where its cartoonish.
and its especially cartoonish because kazyan has just completely dropped the read on house for the pooky SK read which they could genuinely believe is true as mafia here.

[Gorkington]

for the record i think this is more synergous with dann's towngame (appeasing you when you're leading + unlikely to hit lategame has limited novelty for scum!dann) but i also think dann is too capable as scum to just hard townread

something something deepwolf something

ftr i am also cautious about my read on dannflor but i consider him very protown to have around at this stage so im just not worrying about it and hoping its someone else's problem if they fuck up endgame after im dead.

[Gorkington]

at the risk of polluting the thread with my trash

can someone explain to me the pooky paranoia?
ive only really seen him troll as mafia and he seems a little more engaged/productive here, is there something im missing there?

[Gorkington]

cant wait to be put at the bottom

[Gorkington]

Kaz seems the same as Dogs v Cats to me

can you give more words on this

[Gorkington]

I agree a vote there is a waste of time right now.

do you not buy into the scum inactivity/replace-out tell-related stuff?

i also feel like gamma's catchup so far feels pretty lifeless in a bad way.

[Gorkington]

@mc:

Never felt too strongly about it on the first place, does no good keeping it there while noone else is.

is this factoring at all into your read on mega's vote? because to me the candidness/frankness here feels like something less likely to come from mafia who wants to look like theyre scumhunting.

p-edit: its just not really doing anything. which like, if youre still catching up then fine.
im just impatient and if gamma is town and is coming into the game with replacement energy he should be smashing this game right now and it doesnt really feel like he is.

[Gorkington]

If the argument Kaz is scum is "Kaz is saying stuff I think it's dumb" then I don't buy it

RARARA!!!!!!

i can see why it seems like thats what im saying
but the point isnt that the reads are outrageous, its that theres so many reads that feel like kazyan is picking a gimmick to justify, rather than them just believing that a player is mafia or town and having reasoning to back it up.

why you skimming my posts!

fake read list does not a scum make

i dont understand what this means but i found a better way to explain my issues with kazyan later so idk if engaging this is important.

Gork? You feeling that, or are me and Worst still in there somewhere?

i have good news and bad news.
the good news is that im townleaning the worst now. (possibly against my better logical judgment given his scumgame but oh well hes been a good sounding board and i cant be fucked to be paranoid at this point)
the bad news is that well you can probably guess the bad news.

[Gorkington]

ya i get it im old and boring whatever fine okay sure its okay.

[Gorkington]

gamma's latter catch-up stuff is like fine, i guess.

p-edit: the scum agenda is faking reads to try to seem like theyre being productive and protown when theyre not? why does a relatively new player have to have an amazing agenda in their play vs just trying to stay alive by trying to emulate some facet of their towngame?

[Gorkington]

not everyone is good at being mafia.

[Gorkington]

in fact i would argue that on average most people are not good at being mafia.

p-edit: ya ya whatever kill me n1 if you dont want me to get you later.

[Gorkington]

its obviously working well enough for you to not scumread them maybe theyre secretly a genius who has pushed the envelope so far that 60% of the playerlist is just noping out of sorting them because youre too lazy to parse bad play vs scum play.

gottem.

but seriously i just object to the idea that people are being dismissive of kazyan's townplay because theyve said some things that people thought were ridiculous.
i read some of the games people are referencing (against my better judgment (idk why i cant stop using meta)), and kazyan seemed a lot more convincingly interested in the pushes they were making, regardless of whether the reasoning made sense to me.

[Gorkington]

i reserve the right to call you all bad when im right and you were wrong.

[Gorkington]

i also reserve the right to faceplant horribly and relive my worst towngame experiences if they flip town but i really doubt i could ever be wrong about something in a game of mafia again.

on a tangential note i probably need to do some isodives to give a shit about this game again.

[Gorkington]

I stopped giving a shit about trying to convince the town to adopt my solution after I realized that caring about that was not actually good for my mental health.

Now I just kind of blurt out what I think and I have 0 cares about whether the town actually listens to me or throws me out of a window.

never thought a bear would teach me the correct approach to playing mafia but here we are.

[Gorkington]

i dont understand how anyone has a read on navi tbh.

[Gorkington]

i guess lurky gimmicks probably have some scum equity?

p-edit: you can tell what navi's reads are? can you translate them for me? ill give you a quarter if i ever meet you in person if you do

[Gorkington]

I can't transcribe a full readlist but I can tell what some things are attempting to say

reading back i think i was mostly just confused about the conclusion and rationale around the posts centered around me but thats probably also because im self centered.

i'll try to sit with navi's iso for a bit with dannflor's case in mind.

i also think house's schedule is probably more of a factor in him falling off the face of the earth gamestate-wise.

[Gorkington]

I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).

can you reference where specifically this happened?

The problem for me with gamma is that they seem almost inverted to my feelings on various people. Fmpov, either they are scum and I am right (preferred), or they are town and one of us is wrong. (Which isn't preferred because the more correct player likely will die first due to scum influence) If the latter is true and I am right, this vote at least removes an incorrect townie. If I am wrong, all the content I put into this game turns up for nothing, which would make me sad, so I'll blindly believe that's not the case.

are you saying that your read on gamma is that hes more likely scum than not because he has inverted reads to you?

a peculiar dance we dance while we stall out pooky's inevitable elimination

you have a bizarre read on the game friend lol.

[Gorkington]

I can see Loftwing as scum with either gamma or pooky off of associatives (mounting a defensish manuever for both out of purely mechanical reasons rather than off of reads).

can you reference where specifically this happened?

hbd.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: navi

[Gorkington]

so naturally loftwing is towny

dannflor you cant just townread everyone who acts weird
this site is literally full of weirdos

More of both of you are individually suspicious after thoroughly looking through your ISOs

i feel like your read on me would feel a lot less stale if you had actually acknowledged my response to your isodive on me.

[Gorkington]

why are you casing yourself you silly goose
gamma's supposed to do that

[Gorkington]

or nvm i misunderstood the second part of that. are you actually calling gamma mafia here

[Gorkington]

jesus nvm i read it a third time and read gamma's quotes and now i actually get it just ignore me im going to sit in the corner.

[Gorkington]

you arent even being run up anymore!

[Gorkington]

sorry youre having a hard week.

when youre feeling better you should read the game and get invested if youre town so if i am wrong i can change my mind and not look like i suck at the game.

[Gorkington]

have you read the reasoning that gamma gave for murdercat being mafia and the reasoning that dannflor gave for navi being mafia?
just because both are lower in post count doesnt mean that the reasons that theyre being pushed for are the same.

[Gorkington]

can you walk through your pooky read like im 12 years old and need someone talking slowly to me in order to understand what theyre trying to say

[Gorkington]

sorry if anyone is 12 in this game im sure youre smarter than me.

[Gorkington]

But he's also obviously wagon-shopping and agreeing to vote some lurkers (KidAmn, Navi, whatever) even though he expresses pretty firm scumreads on me and Worst

why is pooky opportunistic SK who doesnt care who dies vs someone who is just trying to shake things to see what falls loose? doesnt SK have incentive to want to find mafia early on in the game?
pooky more or less said that hes not interested in trying to force wagons on who he thinks is mafia because its not worth the effort, do you believe that, or no?

I kinda hate most the interaction with House which starts at 237. I know Pooky does this friend routine whenever, but House isn't picking it up, and Pooky like just keeps going on and on about this even though he has no one to convince. It reminds me of when a dog is trying to make friends with someone who doesn't like dogs, and will try to get petted over and over and over again; it's like the most buddying thing I've ever seen

it seems more like pooky just enjoys riling people up. i dont read any of that interaction as buddying.

Yeah I was kinda making fun of myself here I’m not really sure where loftwing stands at the moment

i was also being unserious but i do feel more or less the same about loftwing, which in relative terms is bad because i have a lot of townleans atm.

I would like to think murdercat isn’t going to go “fine I’ll just retire” if he’s scum here but idk that’s also classic scum caught for wrong reasons behavior

i dont really think it would be a fake position for him to be taking if he were mafia here. he can be tired of being run up on d1 as either alignment and also just generally want to quit (and kind of tracks with my expectation from team mafia).
he does seem pretty stilted here but idk if thats just complete burnout/not having time to play.
hes probably a better bet than navi for a scumflip but i also want to see what navi's response to pressure is.

[Gorkington]

@navi, your main things youre saying about the duck are that

a)

his post on kazyan is smelly/the backpedal there feels off even though it could be a generic ducktell.

b)

and that you hadnt posted since the duck had defended you.

a-follow-up)

what makes your backpedal of this read by saying its potential NAI for duck worse than the backpedal he did before?

b-follow-up)

the worst also said these things in between when said defense happened and when he put you in the pool that youre referring to here:

{tw}
{loft, gork}
{dann,

navi

} (i am wrong on these reads but i still have them...)
{dwlee, unwnd}

Dannflor (he)

Navi (she)

Pookythemagicalbear (he)
Gorkington (he)
The Worst (he)
MegAzumarill (doesn't care)
Unwnd (he)
Murdercat (he)
Dwlee99 (they)
Kazyan (they)
House (he)
KidAmn (he)
loftwing (he)

i'm cooling off on my navi townread but i don't really think they're actually scummy (they've been absent for nearly half the game thread lol). mcat is scummy when he's here.

why is it more likely hes scum being opportunistic there rather than just thinking youre not being town enough to not be in his pool?
is there more to your read on him than just this?

[Gorkington]

what makes your backpedal of this read by saying its potential NAI for duck

better

than the backpedal he did before?

this was logically wrong, my brain is a pile of rocks.

[Gorkington]

i feel like given that we're down to 2 days before deadline we should be trying to get a bit more serious about the pushes being made.
naked votes for the worst may be hip and cool, but i feel like they arent really getting us mileage on the game solving front and we're going to be getting into some fun deadline crunch hellshit soon.

if we arent going to case and push people for pressure then i think we should get a claim from someone.
would need convincing for the push to be on the worst.

[Gorkington]

also i'll just casually thrown in a controversial statement because i hear those are good for generating game-content:
unwnd is not doing the thing where he convinces me that hes very town by his play so far.

[Gorkington]

I'll read the case on MC/Navi later and get back to y'all on what I think

hows this going.

[Gorkington]

dann posted about navi here:

I think Navi is like dead null in a large number of reads lists (which is always a good starting place by itself), and I know people are generally more lenient with more cryptic/gimmick style posters as long as they actually post content, but the style of her content is not towny

specifically stuff like #149 and #183 reads like listing off observations until she has met an imagined "solvy" quota. there are no serious questions or direct engagements to other players in any of her posts beyond the #330 case on Pooky which really just exists to justify Navi being able to stick her vote somewhere.

overall, it's a type of posting that is very easy to skim over because it looks relatively towny but it's not really naturally towny? town doesn't naturally deliberately type out every step of their thoughts like in those first two posts I mentioned, it's very deliberate in a way that reads like someone trying to get town read rather than someone sharing some important thoughts they had.

house put it more succinctly than I with "forced tone" I suppose. There is a chance I am misreading this character or gimmick she is doing but I think even considering that there is a decent likelihood this flips red

even just reading and giving thoughts on navi's posting since she decided to forego the gimmick would probably be good.

gamma posted about murdercat here:

Takes a minute to fire up the neurons sometimes

I wouldn't vote you regardless of alignment because this is just asking for my attention either way

Oh.

Well, then.

VOTE: unwnd

You have my attention.

I don't understand what this post changed about your read

which multiple people seem to be buying into? Or not? Idk

Where is anyone buying into this?

UNVOTE: House

Dunno why I kept my vote on you.

What was your read on Kaz here?

Based on how quickly the wagon formed on me and the deal with Gork and Dann, there's maybe one scum on my wagon? VOTE: House?

What do you mean re Gork and Dann and why do you conclude House is the scum?

Low on time today but dislike the dwlee wagon here.

VOTE: kidann

Say more?

these are some key posts I think exemplify what I’m seeing, especially the first and last ones
I also did some meta doublchecking and I saw some similar stuff in the last scumgame on main I saw from Murdercat

other people have been commenting on whether murdercat would be likely to say hes going to retire from mafia because of being pushed here if he were mafia here.

[Gorkington]

@dwlee

, whats your best guess for three mafia right now and why

[Gorkington]

can you expand on your thoughts on gamma? i dont see any kind of updated thoughts from you on him since he replaced in

[Gorkington]

where did you move up? last post on you by him looks like youre still in his three scum suspects

also, is there a reason you havent been pushing for a wagon on him?

p-edit: only one activity so far has been based on activity.

[Gorkington]

ONLY ONE ACTIVITY.
DAMMIT MY BRAIN SUCKS.

only one replacement.

[Gorkington]

can you walk through why its scummy for gamma to not be doing anything with the scumread on you in comparison to what youre doing with your scumread on him?
because if youre applying your own logic for gamma to yourself i would think you would look worse by that metric, no?

[Gorkington]

Spoiler: the gamma question pile

No it's not necessarily scummy, it might in fact be town weirdness. I am also level zeroing right now

what was the point behind asking about the kaz wagon

and tbh I'm not feeling as good about kaz's posts on this page

I'm not super convinced on Kazyan and feel like by poe kidamn is likely scum

what is ur poe

like if you think im actually an SK

wouldnt the mafia try to off me at night?

lulz

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

This message is bloody pawprint
If Kazyan is in wolfpack their fear of the Pooky knife is true. Then Kazyan might vote Pooky today to show rooster feathers (give House ear).
If the rooster feathers are not brave enough to summon butcher then Kazyan might go to Pooky in the night.
This yelp is more normal for Pooky to tell Kazyan they have bad math with knowing Kazyan is pure.
A hexagonal manhole cover, inserted rotated sixty degrees as a code to his lover that he knew he was thinking of him.

I kinda get this and feel like it's onto something

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: dwlee

helllll yeeeeeeeeAaaaaa

pending response from dwlee to my questions I think this is a solid vote

Kidamn and Kazyan should be the two competing wagons cause one of those two is actually probably scum if my vibe check is right

I was gonna ask what this vibe check was but you answered on the same page

It's that I feel like Kazyan is town, and I have felt like the wagon on him was also mostly town. So then we should be looking at who is on the sidelines (like kidamn who still has done nothing).

I also think regardless of Kazyan's alignment that scum are inactive right now.

kidamn had literally flaked at this point, do you still stand by this "standing on the sidelines" accusation?
and like, you framed your vote as poe initially when the actual logic had no poe involved at all

Dwlee what do you make of meg’s play thus far?

what questions from this pile does that apply to?

[Gorkington]

kidamn had literally flaked at this point, do you still stand by this "standing on the sidelines" accusation?
and like, you framed your vote as poe initially when the actual logic had no poe involved at all

i feel like gamma could stand to expand on what he meant by this in more detail. some of it feels a little misreppy.

have you played with gamma much before? what would you expect from him replacing in if he were town trying to sort you?

[Gorkington]

see, the thing is that i generally feel like your tone is townish.
and i feel as though your impulses this game are really plausibly towny.

i just feel.. weird about how disinterested you feel about applying your view of the gamestate to try to actually affect things.
i havent played with you in a long time so i didnt come into this game with expectations, but its just hard to fully wrap my head around a townread on you when it feels like youre coasting so hard and arent really interested in trying to get a more complicated view of the gamestate.

i know the response to this is going to be that you feel like being lazy, but if that ends up being the case the whole game you should recognize that down the line that its pretty plausible a group of players is going to want to toss you out the airlock on pure paranoia over your lack of engagement.

[Gorkington]

In the mean time, someone want to catch us up?

what kind of a breakdown do you want, just the gist of wagons that have happened so far and the reasons for them/against them?

[Gorkington]

house was probably the most notable wagon in RVS, possible some of attention there was driven by him making an effort to switch up his playstyle to be less confrontational early on.

i pushed the kazyan wagon coming out of RVS initially based on disliking their engagement and then my issues there kind of congealed into being more about them seeming like all of their reads were simplistic/gimmicky.
most of the votes there were probably focused on sorting rather than genuine scumreads (much to my disappointment ): )
kazyan then started pushing pooky as being a serial killer and a lot of people townread them because they think the ridiculousness seems more in-line with their expectations of their towngame

wake88 made a notable post about kazyan's wagon being too fast and then was force-replaced into the worst who pushed dwlee for not liking their conclusions so far and wanting to put them in the spotlight.

dwlee wagon fizzled into a kidamn wagon because he was absent and people didnt like his entrance.

he eventually was activity-replaced into gamma and the wagon fizzled after his catch-up.

there was a brief pooky paranoia wagon.

then navi/murdercat competing wagons based on cases by dannflor and gamma respectively.
navi is a secret alt by isis who revealed because of the wagon and isnt going to gimmick post anymore and people dont want to wagon murdercat as much because they think him saying he wants to retire because of this push is more likely to be town than mafia-motivated.

now people are naked voting the worst, and people seem a little demotivated.

thats my cliffnotes.

[Gorkington]

feels like navi is trying to lurk out this wagon in hopes that someone finds a new shiny thing.
can we get some more pressure there

[Gorkington]

active elsewhere on the site and was really not that engaged when she was here and i think there are a lot of unanswered questions from her catchup.
unless youre happy with a murdercat wagon being the #1 wagon right now.

[Gorkington]

like maybe do something instead of just getting in the way of someone trying to do something then?

[Gorkington]

im saying that even the posts when she was here were underwhelming considering she had a lot of space to explain where her head had been at when she was limited to posting in the gimmick form and so it feels potentially more like "how do i stop the momentum on the wagon on me" rather than actually trying to get into the game.

[Gorkington]

if i was playing under a self imposed post restriction and couldnt say things that i wanted to say i would feel unleashed by the prospect of being able to drop content unhindered after having tried to express things that people werent really picking up on but navi does not feel that way at all.

p-edit: isis is the name of her main account. lol.

[Gorkington]

i dont understand.

p-edit: i dont understand.

[Gorkington]

can you explain why the duck is scum

[Gorkington]

oh well in that case
VOTE: navi

[Gorkington]

oh shoot i seem to have a post restriction that changes the word duck into navi when i type it into a vote tag

[Gorkington]

dangit now i look like a jerk after you gave me a serious answer.
will try to read and think about it.

[Gorkington]

the worst definitely feels a lot more aimless here in comparison to that game.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: the worst
sure.

take that, ego.

[Gorkington]

i feel patently unfun/unpleasant in this game right now so you can probably rely on me to be the most obnoxious one in the game if you want to be more active.

[Gorkington]

im being so mean spirited right now idk!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

i appreciate the nice words though! im probably just going through my biweekly "god i suck" thing.

[Gorkington]

it really does

[Gorkington]

@dann

, i feel like it could be poisoning the well to constantly be trying to point out that you and pooky have good scumgames without really trying to do anything about it.

all of the mentions of "dann could be mafia" and "pooky should be killed today" didnt really seem like functional things to mention from someone who wants to actually accomplish something. if duck wanted a pooky wagon i feel like asking people to join it or asking why people are or are not scumreading pooky is the way to go about accomplishing that, but i dont really think thats happened at all.

i also think pooky's right that compared to that other game where the duck was focused and trying to push wagons, this game theres too many feathers and not enough substance.

there wow look its a semi-efforted case!

[Gorkington]

prepared to egg on face for this but i think dann is town.

sorry in advance for setting you up for a nightkill or your welcome depending on how much youre enjoying the game so far.

[Gorkington]

Now I have 3 hours of meetings to go to, be back later

hes probably like 60% done his meetings

[Gorkington]

think my read on dwlee comes out closer to townlean from the interaction?

@LLD

i recognize that i said that people were demotivated, but the wagon on the worst was starting to gain some momentum right before you did that. did you see that was happening and think that the game was still dead?

[Gorkington]

i think i want roasted duck for d1
i bet this joke has been made 1000 times

[Gorkington]

i think i want microwaved duck for d1

[Gorkington]

I recognize we have 2 days but why are you cutting this short?

im not particularly in a rush, otherwise i would be asking everyone to duckpile on and get a claim.
if this is an extension of what you think my question was for, i was asking it equally to see what your intentions were as well as your read on the gamestate at that moment when you decided to go after dwlee.

[Gorkington]

Man IDK, we had so much more to explore. And now people like that Azumaril person aren't really going to feel any form of concern to do anything, you know?

i try not to get it twisted over not having the entire game solved on any given day early on.
if theres a strong scumread then going after it is probably more productive than worrying about trying to sort every slot in the game on D1.

[Gorkington]

but im not going to get in your way if you want to keep shaking things to see what comes loose?
im a little confused as to why you even felt the need to acknowledge my post as having some kind of unique weight when you could just ignore it and keep pushing people if thats what you wanted to do.

[Gorkington]

Because you're my strongest town read and I feel like you have some level of town leadership currently, and I want to poke you about doing things when you have that much power and I am decently confident you're town?

lol

i think you probably could have just convinced me to help you wagon people though?
like just a flat out "hey please help me pressure this person i think they are mafia because of X i would like to be more centered on this player" and i feel like the game could have just proceeded rather than whatever this current state of affairs is right now q_q

cause from my POV im just like, im not really townreading your slot and i cant really read your mind about what you do or dont want with the current gamestate, so im just.. idk confused as to why that was an expectation?

[Gorkington]

like if i were to have made a big case on the worst and was like "KILL HIM" i could understand the disappointment, but i dont really think i have the kind of influence on the gamestate that you think i do, given that i cant even get the kazyan wagon to happen when i still kind of want it lol.

[Gorkington]

I mean, idk. I feel like there's a level of if you understand the game has an apathy problem and I spoke on wanting to stop apathy...

don't worry about it

im not a very smart person.
if you want me to do something you hit me in the head with a stick and say "go do thing".
i get where youre coming from, but i dont really play mafia on that kind of level past RVS for better or for worse.

as a player/general agent of chaos i'd be interested in a kazyan wagon but i think i'm at the point where my heart isn't in it unless one of my reads flips around again or i'm just like.. epicly wrong abt something

i kind of dont really want a kazyan wagon for a combination of selfish reasons of being uncomfortable with the personal responsibility of having derailed the gamestate to go after my personal pet project scumread that nobody agrees with and also because i think it will be really bad for gamestate to be wrong on kazyan in a way it wont be for other flips.

[Gorkington]

i think a stroll is probably a good idea

[Gorkington]

I'll drink your 'worst is bad' tea if MCat doesn't flip Red. I don't think worst's vote is a 'meh my partner is going under' vanity vote

Worst bus ur partner

(This is a half-serious read)

what happened between here and here?

[Gorkington]

oh no thats not a stroll.

[Gorkington]

having a good scumgame seems really annoying.

[Gorkington]

yea im sure the worst rolls scum

zees how hard it will be to bamboozle town

decides hey i have to jump in and fuck Riu d abd oush dleeeee

lololol

uusr stoup

[Gorkington]

imagine having three bullets
thinking its a 50/50 on two players
and then shooting only one of those two players

this isnt really a casepoint more just something that makes me Riu d abd oush dleeeee

[Gorkington]

i'll just be here vibing with objectively perfect reasds

you recently doubtcasted your LLD read as being null if you remove your emotions from it and it feels like your pooky read has continually been a paranoia read.

are you really that confident in your reads right now or what
or am i misunderstanding something

p-edit: i had a beer earlier that must surely count for something

[Gorkington]

unwnd is there a reason youre preferring murdercat vote over the worst vote right now
theres functionally no momentum there right now.

[Gorkington]

I feel like I would just vote mcat here because his own defense is markedly explaining things that should've came before. Meaning, I feel the equivalent of an eye roll from his recent posts.

can you unpack this more and/or walk through why youre parked on murdercat without like..
trying to seriously drive a wagon there if youre that confident about it when we're like
in urgent end of the day borderline zone of holy fuck we need to get our shit together mode?

[Gorkington]

here is a big fat vibe check on the game from the

im at the stage of my mafia-playing-whatever-you-would-call-it-(aka-not-a-career-because-thats-silly) that i dont really fully trust myself to get things fully right with my reads.
so you shouldnt either.

but this is all just prefacing the fact that a lot of my townleans are in a space of "eh i would not be terribly surprised if you are secretly mafia playing a good game" but i cant exactly turn off how im feeling so if this is useful to someone this is my complete readset and thoughts on the playerlist/gamestate.

(this might be a very self indulgent post sorry in advance)

==========================================================

Spoiler: tread carefully stranger there are many words buried beneath this spoiler tag and few of them are to be considered as being useful to read

dannflor:

is the closest thing i have to a logical rock this game. i think i want him to be town more than i actually think hes town but i dont really think it matters and if he keeps playing at this level and is town then its unlikely that mafia is going to want someone that smart in the game trying to parse things from start to finish. i personally think people should stop shading him unless they really want to flip him or have something specific to pick at beyond just "oh no dann why is it that you arent gorkington levels of town"? nobody is even capable of reaching that level of town except for me. youre not being fair to dannflor at all by saying that. also i think his pushes and sorts just generally feel like theyre coming from a genuine place so theres that as well.

also also, it feels like it would be extremely distracting to constantly be on edge about people floating you around as some kind of super secret subterranean wolf for extremely nebulous reasons. thats what we call slander. you fucking jerks.

if youre worried that hes mafia just like, look for who seems plausibly partnered with him and beat them up instead and then turn your brain back on for reading him on d4.

pooky:

feels weird to have him in the upper echelons of this list but oh well! i woke up 10 minutes ago feeling some kind of moment of clarity about the fact that pooky feels like he doesnt have control in a way thats making him seem antsier in this game than in his scumgames when he felt like everything he did was calculated towards some kind of purpose. im probably not putting enough respect on his scumgame by feeling this comfortable with him. biggest hesitation would be that his reads feel a little sticky, but kazyan has moved around in his readlist so its not like hes been mindlessly pushing the same reads all game.
and, i'll get to this later, but his view of the game has generally been probably the closest to my assessment and i want to believe that im not assessing this game the same as scumPooky is lol. im choosing to believe that pooky has got my back. life's too short to doubt yourself, you know?

dwlee:

i could be getting entirely suckered on the "im being lazy" angle thats been the quintessential descriptor of their play so far, but i just generally believe most of dwlee's posting and think the reactions to LLD's and gamma's pushes have both seemed genuine. most of the pushing there feels like its for overly clinical/logical reasoning of why dwlee is doing X or Y, but i think dwlee is just approaching the game differently from what most people expect and thats making them more of a target. you might say that its ironic that such a desire to be lazy has ended up making the game more difficult for them P:

gamma:

hes throwing a lot of attitude around that i generally associate more with town swagger vs mafia forced opinions. ive more than once this game thought "wow i hate you gamma you are very wrong about this thing you nerd" (this is exaggerated i dont actually think this it was just a moment god calm down i dont have a problem with gamma leave me alone) which is something that i dont think i would feel reading a series of a lot of mafiaposts in a row.

house

: i knocked him down in this list from my initial inclination to put him higher, particularly with his play the last few days. im partially holding on to a feeling that i had when he was more active/around last weekend. hoping he gets back into the game here because his play is kind of devolving into memes rather than trying to parse the gamestate. i would expect me to be fully paranoid again here coming in to d2 but for now im capturing this moment in time and right now i generally feel like house is just trying to relate and be involved in a way thats probably. i dont really understand what hes trying to do or where his head's at and am hoping thats just because hes busy.
this is probably the closest i have to a stale read at this point but im kind of down to not waste effort trying to do an ISOdive on him when we're not wagoning him today short of a miracle case.

======everybody except for house is allowed to read this, this was originally a spoiler but then i decided to spoiler my nightmare read breakdown post so now this is a futile attempt at a text spoiler===========
nobody tell house that im also a little influenced by pooky's read there. i do frankly think that it gets a lot harder to play scum as you get older/busier unless you have a strong inclination for it.
======okay house you can start reading again===========

megazu:

this is where im starting to get close to the null line, but theyre still slightly above the line atm. i havent seen anything from their tone/posts that has particularly pinged me as scummy and theres moments that i think end up feeling more town than not, particularly some aspects of their LLD push in terms of the aggression in given moments but also taking a moment to tell LLD to take a step back in a way that felt like a natural way for town. this is all kind of a stretch. sorry about that. i probably would need to do an ISOdive to feel more strongly and i just dont really want to do that when theres no reason to right now.

murdercat:

this is probably slightly inflated higher than it should be. murdercat's tone is just like.. not great this game, but i do believe the general sentiment of being fed up of being pushed coming from him. willing to cut him some slack because his schedule this weekend seems fucked (and like the pedantic awful scumhunter in me is like "ay its been 3 hours since your meetings started WHY DIDNT YOU FEEL THE NEED TO COME BACK AND PLAY WITH US??? HUH!?!?!?!?") so im willing to cut him some slack and if mafia for some reason decides to let me live then tomorrow can try to make an effort to try to get him engaged and if hes still feeling really wooden then he should get the clamps.

kazyan:

i fucking hate that this read is here. im choosing to shut off the primal part of my brain that thinks theyre mafia and if they end up being the zaiden of this game then people can build me a monument because im better at reading newscum than all of the rest of you. (and i guess i dont hate some of their most recent posts even if the whole "i bet the mod would break up the scumteam if it were LLD and the worst"-being townread made me twitch).

LLD:

i weirdly agree with my strongest scumread that theres a large contingent of Aisling's posting so far that just feels extremely probable for being agenda driven. if the worst were just stripped out of the game entirely i would probably be a lot more paranoid feeling of her here, but its pretty hard to imagine that set of interactions coming from partners. i think the dwlee push is fine and something i would expect from her either way. i'd like to give her some space to try to gain her footing. the defeatism of "people wont even let you trade a promise to flip you if your scumread flips town anymore" felt like a really weird sentiment to have given that we've collectively been pretty on board with getting the duck which would probably effectively semi-clear her if he flips mafia? the timing kind of makes it make sense given that a wagon on her was starting, but it just feels like something you say when youve been put in a corner and have no options left and it didnt really feel like that was the case.

unwnd:

i think the way hes choosing to play this game is very hands off and clinical which is basically 0% what i was expecting having followed along one of his towngames recently. i think hes very smart and makes quote-unquote "good points", but theres a layer of artificialness and an unwillingness to get into the weeds that makes me feel really icky about his play this game. i also just straight up hate the back and forth he had with the worst and the way his read has moved around on the duck makes 0 sense to me. i think theres something really off about the way he went from saying murdercat/the worst cant be partners, to saying the worst should bus murdercat, to suddenly townreading the worst. i know there will be logical "good points" for why this should make sense, but it doesnt really seem believable and if the worst does flip mafia then unwnd should be a high priority sort.

navi:

i appreciate the kind words and they do in fact make me feel a little guilty for this read which is probably ridiculous so you know what screw it! no more feeling mad at myself instead im going to roast YOU.
why did you name yourself Navi when youre not even TRYING to help us here?
oh SNAP.

but yeah for real i think the gimmick account was a little too crutchy and theres not enough solving energy from you coming out of it. for some reason it feels almost harder to understand where your head is at than when you were trying to make beautiful art posts. so. idk i feel like if you are town you should try to commit to getting a bit more invested here? this is more reach outty than it should be. i'll close this off by saying that im going to come get you D3 if you dont kill me so make sure im dead by N2 thanks.

the worst:

this is the last read im writing and im almost out of steam oh no.
hopefully nobody is still reading at this point and just reads the tl;dr.

the worst was someone i was townleaning for a little bit and then suddenly something clicked and now absolutely nothing theyre saying is ringing genuine to me this game. pooky can feel free to take credit and claim that hes the best bear, especially if hes right that its just the duck/unwnd.

i think whats really missing is just this sense that the worst is trying to get shit done. his posting is just completely aimless in this game. like its a discussion thread rather than a mafia thread. i should feel like he wants to actually push LLD because he thinks shes scum but instead i feel like the read there is just that hes mad at her.
reading through the whole ISO, you arent going to hit a point where it feels like "oh yeah the duck is taking over this game and trying to drive things to try to win" and i strongly think thats because hes mafia and is just producing a lot of content rather than substantive scumhunting with an underlying genuine thought process.

tl;dr:
dannflor, pooky
dwlee, gamma
house, megazu, murdercat
kazyan, lld, unwnd
navi, duck

i really think the worst should flip here.
i generally just feel like theres one scum in the pile of LLD/the worst. if hes town then he should understand that he gets what he should want here, which is probably an LLD push on D2. (which like, again, why is he not pushing his strongest scumread and instead off on a fucking fantasy adventure voting someone who isnt even here when theres no support for it and a day until deadline)
if hes mafia then unwnd goes under the microscope.

hbd pooky im giving you the present of supporting your reads this game.

[Gorkington]

I mean y'all aren't considering LLD

you really think murdercat is a more viable wagon than LLD right now

[Gorkington]

like why are you not trying to drive an LLD wagon
why are you not trying to push it
why are you not poking people as to why they arent voting her

theres no drive to what youre doing at all.

[Gorkington]

the same questions apply for murdercat if you somehow think you can get votes there when his wagon is literally smaller and more people are townreading him than LLD??

p-edit: ya im just not reading its not that youre not actually trying to drive a wagon.
you really think i should be reading your ISO and think "dang the worst is like really trying to figure out what people think of LLD to try to get them to change their mind"

[Gorkington]

bleh okay fine i probably was going too hard off of vibes on read-along rather than having actually done an ISOdive in saying that.
as repentance for my sins and for the fact that i spent that long on a self indulgent post like that instead of ISOing who im casing i will make an effort to reread your ISO.

[Gorkington]

i want to feel confident going into night and actually reading and thinking about things is going to make that harder fuck my life!!!!

can you walk me through why you like unwnd's interactions with you here?
like.
why is his read trajectory on you reading as genuine?

[Gorkington]

murdercat is generally burnt out.
is this something that youre not aware of?

[Gorkington]

why is navi not in your options for a flip?

[Gorkington]

at the risk of being like
unintentionally rude if you are town here

i dont understand your read on the gamestate.

you have 5+ people saying "murdercat is town" and a bunch of people saying "lld kinda sus eh", and nobody being like "navi is a townread rn"
and with a 3-person wagon on LLD and equal wagons of one vote on murdercat/navi you go for murdercat as the only plausible option available to you?

im just struggling to understand how you were reading that at all.

[Gorkington]

yeah i recognize that, was a part of the read reasoning where i mentioned that i was just hoping that the feeling of staleness of my read on you is coming from you being busy during the week.

[Gorkington]

is there anyone who doesnt think theres a dichotomy between LLD and the worst with one scum in that pile?

[Gorkington]

because
a) both feel scummy
b) i dont want to live in a world where they could be partners
c) it feels right in my gutsoulheart

[Gorkington]

it was probably a meaningless point to someone who doesnt have the same view of the gamestate as me. oh well.

p-edit: yeah probably. thats pretty NAI for her.

[Gorkington]

Who is bussing worst

He's prime towncred right now even if red

I fail to see partners acting around him?

shouldnt your answer be gamma

[Gorkington]

I think if you flip red you're giving a stink eye to Gamma as a partner or if you're town Gamma looks terrible on your wagon.

So either way your last wishes will be heard.

big HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM vibes.

[Gorkington]

god do we derail duckwagon to get unwnd?
thats so bad in isolation.

[Gorkington]

i think that slip is worse than anything specific duck has done even if theyre probably just partners.

[Gorkington]

because from unwnd's POV hes literally already said that gamma would be a probable partner that we would look at if the worst flips red
so why would he now be like "guh idk who could it be who is bussing the worst i just cant figure it out" that logic is completely broken

[Gorkington]

why would there need to be two scum bussing him that just makes your question patently ridiculous

[Gorkington]

I fail to see partners acting around him?

like if you had said
"gamma is plausible as a partner but i dont see another possibility" then this would maybe track
but the way you said this is like really clearly you saying that you saw no possibility of a partner being on the wagon which feels like a perspective slip serving an interest of protecting your partner

[Gorkington]

I fail to see partners acting around him?

thats not a satisfactory answer to this aspect of your post.

[Gorkington]

I don't think that's a slip

awol until someone like dannflor is here to give me a second opinion im not engaging on another conversation like this where someone tells me im wrong with no reasoning.

[Gorkington]

because from unwnd's POV hes literally already said that gamma would be a probable partner that we would look at if the worst flips red
so why would he now be like "guh idk who could it be who is bussing the worst i just cant figure it out" that logic is completely broken

Yea I read this. I don't buy it. Like okay sure or it could be a question for the class to answer

I fail to see partners acting around him?

this is the part.
ignore the part about the question to the class.
THIS PART makes no fucking sense from someone who has just said gamma was a good candidate for scum with the worst and has gamma at the bottom of his reads.

[Gorkington]

so he just forgot that he was scumreading gamma/the composition of the wagon that he had just commented on less than 100 posts from before?

this is why i dont want to engage you on this. youre doubling down even though you agree at this point.

[Gorkington]

im just gonna walk away because finding something like this always puts me on edge and im just really impatient/frustrated about being dismissed a lot this game.

[Gorkington]

I'm not dismissing you! The very much opposite.

Do you disagree with Gamma? Who do you think are viable partners (besides me) for Worst? Sigh.

im not saying you are, im saying dwlee is.
i was explicit about townreading gamma in my readlist.

im generally not confident in my ability to isolate partners, and im frankly not 100% on whether this means youre partnered with the worst, i just feel like town you doesnt say what you just said and its hard to believe that youre not just straight up mafia for it and i dont really think engagement right now is going to change that.

[Gorkington]

like if im somehow reading that wrong then maybe someone else will point it out to me, but i dont really think youre going to convince me that your question about not knowing who would be bussing the worst now doesnt betray that you forgot that you were supposed to be scumreading gamma as a potential partner with the worst.
especially not by claiming it was a question to the class that wasnt your own thoughts because it just straight up looks like your thoughts on the wagon.

[Gorkington]

i dont really think experience precludes mistakes, but this conversation feels tedious/pointless for people that arent you. im not going to just suddenly stop feeling this way about the post because you tell me youre better than it.
engage someone on something else i need some time to sit with this and see how i feel when im not this on edge.

[Gorkington]

do you really think im in the mindset to charitably engage your posts when im this convinced that youre mafia? lol
i think you should want me to come back down to a rational level before i even try.

[Gorkington]

im telling you that im in the mindset right now where my default is to just be straight up mean to points because im so convinced youre mafia and i dont really want to even be tempted to do that when it wont even accomplish anything productive.
if you genuinely want me to try to sort this situation meaningfully you should just let me walk away and come back to this.

[Gorkington]

just use your power role on her
thatll fix this mess.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: murdercat
how was the wedding

and also lower priority but wheres your head at on this game

[Gorkington]

unwnd feels more like an end the day kind of wagon

[Gorkington]

@unwnd

, why does it feel like youre acting like a passive presence in this game
when my entire impression of your towngame is that youre uncompromising and aggressive

I want to kill Gamma or MCat

They're not amazing pelts but that's jus how I feel

why are you even acting confident about said read on murdercat now when you literally seem unimpressed with your own reads here going into n1
why murdercat over gamma now

Right now I'm starting to think you're not scum, just because I think the things you're saying make sense. If this is your own scumplay diverting me then we can end up 50/50. Why do you get into a shitpit with LLD who is able to amass a large crowd and very often get what she wants. You're brave but not stupid.

How hot and bothered do you get as scum? How personal is this affront I mentioned?

what was it from the batch of posts from the worst above this that made you think he was being genuine.
go into extreme detail.
make me believe that you believe what you believe.

[Gorkington]

ideally i would be able to pretend to be interested in primarily parsing murdercat right now but i am who i am
and im almost sorry for it.