newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[Spangled]

Hi folks! It's time to break NewD3!

Tracker, please claim. It's not advantageous to scum to claim Tracker.

Isn’t that only any good for B3?
If it’s A2 it’s no good, since the JK chooses between protecting them (and blocking them, of course), and if it’s B1 it just sucks, since you’ve straight up outed a PR.

Cook, can you please explain how this is going to work?

tracker, don’t claim just yet for the love of god

[Spangled]

ha ha how did I mix up italics and bold
I surely should know better
it isn’t like it’s hard
really!

anyway, with that out of the way, VOTE: DArby
for being the last one to /in and getting us into this darn game

[Spangled]

oh dang my vote means DArby, Roden and I are in a nice little vote-triangle
that’s fun

for the record, I don’t think Cook’s being scummy here, they’re a self-proclaimed setup-breaker and surely the strategy they’re about to propose has some merit, because if it doesn’t geez louise that’s some openwolfing right there

in which case I guess it would be scummy, but surely they know other players would check their logic, and surely a tracker wouldn’t claim due to just one line of bolded text
a persuasive bolded line, to be sure, and coming from a potentially scaaaarrrry SE, but still

pedit:
ahhh mafia always stresses me out
I prefer to die early, since I hate being unsure and unsure and unsure in a MyLo or LyLo situation

[Spangled]

Hi folks! It's time to break NewD3!

Tracker, please claim. It's not advantageous to scum to claim Tracker.

Isn’t that only any good for B3?
If it’s A2 it’s no good, since the JK chooses between protecting them (and blocking them, of course),

and not bothering

, and if it’s B1 it just sucks, since you’ve straight up outed a PR.

Cook, can you please explain how this is going to work?

tracker, don’t claim just yet for the love of god

EBWOP
(is what is said here, right?)

[Spangled]

for the record, I don’t think Cook’s being scummy here, they’re a self-proclaimed setup-breaker and surely the strategy they’re about to propose has some merit, because if it doesn’t geez louise that’s some openwolfing right there

although, someone being wrong about how to break a setup doesn’t necessarily mean they’re openwolfing, but if their strategy turns out to be bizarrely terrible then that immediate demand for the tracker to claim looks sketchy

so I guess actually, maybe townpoints if they have a decent strategy, scum equity if it just straight up sucks

but the immediate demand doesn’t really mean anything necessarily, I often used to play mafia in meatspace and I would always suspect people who seemed confident of themselves, which generally turned out to be wrong
a demand like that just means confidence in their strategy and themselves
so

[Spangled]

I mean, often it meant confidence in the people backing them up, which was often

me

until they started to show that confidence, and then I would stop backing them up, which is quite a twisted cycle really

[Spangled]

however, even if Cook’s strategy is bizarrely bad — which I don’t expect it will be! — someone pushing her for it on the grounds that it’s rolefishing or something is misguided, I think

[Spangled]

ha ha how did I mix up italics and bold
I surely should know better
it isn’t like it’s hard
really!

anyway, with that out of the way, VOTE: DArby
for being the last one to /in and getting us into this darn game

VOTE: Spangled

gut says this is scum

does a nervous tone mean scum?
this wouldn’t be anything to do with me asking you to explain your setup-breaking, would it?

[Spangled]

now this strategy would have worked infinitely better if i didn't have to explain it to you and you just blindly trusted me, because now scum know the strategy in its full and can counter it.

hats off to you for breaking the breaking strategy, psyche.

VOTE: No elimination.

lmao guess I’m psyche here
well, that’s a fairly distinguished place to be in, actually, so I don’t mind

but I see the utility of tracker + jk, now, with tracker being an innocent child
not sure whether it counterbalances the possible clears and scum-blocks that a jk or tracker might get, though

[Spangled]

wait so Cook, the strategy looks legitimate

and I get having the strategy and really wanting to get it out there, even though you rolled scum
…and I was going to say something here, I had it clear in my mind, but now I’m not sure

[Spangled]

after reading your ISO in that game again, I’m confused
is no-elim better day 1 or not?

[Spangled]

so just skimming the mod ISO, it didn’t work out for T3 in his game

hm so the strategy is, broad terms, unless we can follow the cop, having two ICs D2 and keeping information away from scum is the way to go
if that were accepted in mafia theory, wouldn’t masons always claim day 2?

I’m definitely misunderstanding things here

[Spangled]

so just skimming the mod ISO, it didn’t work out for T3 in his game

don’t think T3 followed it very thoroughly in his game, though, looking at

his

ISO

[Spangled]

And sometimes y doesn't really count.

I mean, if it didn’t here we’d be stuck in the tricky spot where it was thyənhith, and no one wants that

[Spangled]

VOTE: Spangled

Trying to make sense of it all is a scum tell.

I’m trying to get my thoughts onto not-paper, get things out there to be responded to
I’m pretty confused by the strategy and the principles it’s predicated on

[Spangled]

VOTE: Spangled

Trying to make sense of it all is a scum tell.

I’m trying to get my thoughts onto not-paper, get things out there to be responded to
I’m pretty confused by the strategy and the principles it’s predicated on

It's rvs so I wouldn't get too overwhelmed by any principles. Trying to make sense right now is a good opp for scum to jump.

I meant, the principles of Cook’s strategy.
but wdym by the last bit?

[Spangled]

yeah, fair enough

Roden, what do you think of Cook’s potentially-NewD3-breaking strategy?

pedit
I like that song, occasionally
y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles
but maybe he was the Thomas Cromwell, the power behind the throne

VOTE: Thynhith

[Spangled]

I'm kinda game-starved right now, waiting for things to start in other queues. So I may be posting more that I usually do.

atm I’m at the same point, sorta
only I’m really procrastinating on other things, and mafia’s a useful outlet for that

so not the same at all, but sorta
‘not the same, but not different either’, is what I’m trying to say here :D
(well, it always is)

[Spangled]

btw I’m E-2, for any of you quickhammerers out there who want your chance at glory

[Spangled]

I noticed we have 4 SEs this game. So maybe something outlandish will happen, but I doubt it. If I find anyone tonight to guilty, I'll probably hold onto it until Day 3 just to see what kind of scramble Day 2 is.

well, we have 4 SEs this game and then me and Facebones, who both technically qualify for SE status
so this is a bit of a more experienced game than usual, I’d say

uh, that better not be what I think it is

[Spangled]

I don't think Ringo was the Crowell. But I will say that George is the most interesting, or at least deepest. Ringo did some good work in the 70s, and some of it, like Goodnight Vienna, was with help with his former bandmates. But probably the best thing he did was the All-Star Band, inviting different musicians in.

But after you're a Beatle, wtf is expected of you anyway? I'm happy Ringo cleansed his body and cleansed his soul. I wish John had had the same opportunity.

heh true
the Beatles could have laid back all the rest of their lives and we wouldn’t have the right to think ill of them

I watched an interesting movie, called Yesterday, a bit ago, that wonders, what if suddenly, for everyone but this random budding musician, the Beatles had never existed, or rather, never gotten together as a band?
and y’know the protagonist, this budding musician, goes and meets one of the Beatles who was never a Beatle, and asks him if he’s had a good life

I don’t know where I was going with that, but it was very interesting

[Spangled]

I'm hesitant to trust it since it ultimately helped me win as scum last time I saw it, even when town had a Tracker + Doctor combo and the Rolecop was elim'd Day 1. Granted, T3 might not have followed the strat correctly, but still, I think it's just more likely to help scum than town. If Tracker claims and we don't have a Doc, we're gonna be at a massive disadvantage.

they had a tracker-doctor? oh lord, let me skim that game again
I almost put ‘read’ there but let’s face it no one has time to read a whole other game

it seemed pretty waterproof to me, but not a setup-

breaking

strategy
after all, there’s still room to mislim with a couple of ICs

[Spangled]

well, in that game, the doctor (alstroemerial, I think) had to claim to prevent being mislimmed

Cook, if we have a tracker + doc, is the idea to just speed through the rounds until the tracker gets a guilty, for fear of the town accidentally limming the doctor?

[Spangled]

I don't like putting too much stock in meta-gaming this early when we're still in RVS. Can we put a pin in this and come back to it late d1 or sometime d2? I don't see the point of putting this much energy in the 1/3 chance there even is a tracker and an even smaller chance said tracker would want to cooperate.

firstly: Cook’s plan goes beyond just tracker stuff, like if we have Masons she wants one Mason to claim Cop with a green result on the other Mason on D2 IIRC
secondly: pretty sure the plan has to go from the start of D1 to work
thirdly: the tracker not wanting to cooperate’s kinda bull, surely they’d follow the best strategy town could give

I think we hash all this stuff you label ‘metagaming’ out first, and then move on
but also content provided by our discussion of ‘metagaming’ could help us later
more we say, more info we have later

[Spangled]

VOTE: Thynhith

Lack of vowels. That's going to be annyoing.

y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles

VOTE: Spangled

..and we get to E-1 on page 3 - darby did you know that spangled was at E-2 before you voted him?

lmao yeah I was about to say
I want to go out early, but not this early

[Spangled]

y’know, I always thought Ringo was the least interesting of the Beatles

VOTE: Spangled

so who was the least interesting, if not Ringo, huh?
thinks ringo’s the most interesting beatle = scummy
VOTE: DArby

[Spangled]

Also due to past experience with this strat, please nobody allude to being VT in any way here. Because if we only half ass the plan and have people claim not-Tracker, all it does it make it easier for scum to narrow down who to NK tonight.

I think the general rule is never claim VT, really, unless we’re doing a massclaim.

[Spangled]

I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work.

Then should we put it to a vote so we don’t have to worry about it being half assed or not.

EBWOP. Jeez.

Yeah, I think that’s not a bad idea. I’d like Cook to explain it a little more first.

In the meantime, DArby, what do you think of Galron?

[Spangled]

This looks good.
Worst case we have a bulletproof IC, best case we can do a good ol’ follow the cop.
Should we be no-limming today?
What about if we get a cop claim or not-blocked tracker D2? do we lim then? ‘cause we might hit the doc
and if we get a cop claim, they might be masons — doesn’t that possibility throw a spanner in the works?

[Spangled]

I don't think Ringo was the Crowell. But I will say that George is the most interesting, or at least deepest. Ringo did some good work in the 70s, and some of it, like Goodnight Vienna, was with help with his former bandmates. But probably the best thing he did was the All-Star Band, inviting different musicians in.

But after you're a Beatle, wtf is expected of you anyway? I'm happy Ringo cleansed his body and cleansed his soul. I wish John had had the same opportunity.

heh true
the Beatles could have laid back all the rest of their lives and we wouldn’t have the right to think ill of them

I watched an interesting movie, called Yesterday, a bit ago, that wonders, what if suddenly, for everyone but this random budding musician, the Beatles had never existed, or rather, never gotten together as a band?
and y’know the protagonist, this budding musician, goes and meets one of the Beatles who was never a Beatle, and asks him if he’s had a good life

I don’t know where I was going with that, but it was very interesting

I want to watch that move, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to supress my pendatic soul.

it’s a trouble, being a pedant, isn’t it? :D
I just can’t watch the Hobbit trilogy without being in pain for about half of it, because damnit it’s just so wrong
so so wrong

But Galron — what do you think of Cook’s plan, now that she’s outlined it in this thread?

[Spangled]

Didn't read Cook's stuff.

VOTE: spangled

Why didn’t you read it?

also, could you case me?

[Spangled]

This looks good.
Worst case we have a bulletproof IC, best case we can do a good ol’ follow the cop.
Should we be no-limming today?
What about if we get a cop claim or not-blocked tracker D2? do we lim then? ‘cause we might hit the doc
and if we get a cop claim, they might be masons — doesn’t that possibility throw a spanner in the works?

I don't think Ringo was the Crowell. But I will say that George is the most interesting, or at least deepest. Ringo did some good work in the 70s, and some of it, like Goodnight Vienna, was with help with his former bandmates. But probably the best thing he did was the All-Star Band, inviting different musicians in.

But after you're a Beatle, wtf is expected of you anyway? I'm happy Ringo cleansed his body and cleansed his soul. I wish John had had the same opportunity.

heh true
the Beatles could have laid back all the rest of their lives and we wouldn’t have the right to think ill of them

I watched an interesting movie, called Yesterday, a bit ago, that wonders, what if suddenly, for everyone but this random budding musician, the Beatles had never existed, or rather, never gotten together as a band?
and y’know the protagonist, this budding musician, goes and meets one of the Beatles who was never a Beatle, and asks him if he’s had a good life

I don’t know where I was going with that, but it was very interesting

I want to watch that move, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to supress my pendatic soul.

it’s a trouble, being a pedant, isn’t it? :D
I just can’t watch the Hobbit trilogy without being in pain for about half of it, because damnit it’s just so wrong
so so wrong

But Galron — what do you think of Cook’s plan, now that she’s outlined it in this thread?

I can't case you on two pages, but these two posts are +scum.

no, there’s not enough to case me on, fair enough

but in the first one I’m looking for problems with Cook’s plan, to see if she has answers for those problems
in the second I’m talking to you, in rather the same way you talked to me, and then asking you what you think about something we might do, which is more game-advancing/consensus-building than anything particular you’ve done

maybe you see my tone as bad, which is fair, I guess, but at the very least I’ve asked for opinions on subjects, which is the most game-advancing thing anyone’s done so far

except your and Cook’s votes on me I guess lmao that’s funny

[Spangled]

Why do you think Galron’s anti-town, DArby?
like he’s voting me, but what has he done that’s anti-town?

[Spangled]

*except not read Cook’s stuff, but that can easily be attributed to laziness, rather than malice

[Spangled]

*except not read Cook’s stuff, but that can easily be attributed to laziness, rather than malice

As a clue it's not laziness, it's apathy.

yeah, fair, sorry
that was, if not an insult, something that’s insulting, and I apologise for it

pedit
voting for someone twice in a row can make sense, though; the first was RVS, I think, but this one shows he’s serious about it
I see you on the busywork, though, but so far no one’s said

too

much

[Spangled]

This looks good.
Worst case we have a bulletproof IC, best case we can do a good ol’ follow the cop.
Should we be no-limming today?
What about if we get a cop claim or not-blocked tracker D2? do we lim then? ‘cause we might hit the doc
and if we get a cop claim, they might be masons — doesn’t that possibility throw a spanner in the works?

I don't think Ringo was the Crowell. But I will say that George is the most interesting, or at least deepest. Ringo did some good work in the 70s, and some of it, like Goodnight Vienna, was with help with his former bandmates. But probably the best thing he did was the All-Star Band, inviting different musicians in.

But after you're a Beatle, wtf is expected of you anyway? I'm happy Ringo cleansed his body and cleansed his soul. I wish John had had the same opportunity.

heh true
the Beatles could have laid back all the rest of their lives and we wouldn’t have the right to think ill of them

I watched an interesting movie, called Yesterday, a bit ago, that wonders, what if suddenly, for everyone but this random budding musician, the Beatles had never existed, or rather, never gotten together as a band?
and y’know the protagonist, this budding musician, goes and meets one of the Beatles who was never a Beatle, and asks him if he’s had a good life

I don’t know where I was going with that, but it was very interesting

I want to watch that move, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to supress my pendatic soul.

it’s a trouble, being a pedant, isn’t it? :D
I just can’t watch the Hobbit trilogy without being in pain for about half of it, because damnit it’s just so wrong
so so wrong

But Galron — what do you think of Cook’s plan, now that she’s outlined it in this thread?

I can't case you on two pages, but these two posts are +scum.

no, there’s not enough to case me on, fair enough

but in the first one I’m looking for problems with Cook’s plan, to see if she has answers for those problems
in the second I’m talking to you, in rather the same way you talked to me, and then asking you what you think about something we might do, which is more game-advancing/consensus-building than anything particular you’ve done

maybe you see my tone as bad, which is fair, I guess, but at the very least I’ve asked for opinions on subjects, which is the most game-advancing thing anyone’s done so far

except your and Cook’s votes on me I guess lmao that’s funny

I have no response other than this.

I’m So Meta, Even This Acronym

fair enough, I guess
I like reasons for reads, more so yet if they’re on me :D
But I can understand it being more a gut feeling

[Spangled]

If you want to go To Close for Comfort or Charles in Charge I will probably have a problem.

I didn't realize that I was voting for the same playe twice, but whoever said one was rvs and the other was serious was prolly right.

the person you voted for both times said that
it was me!

do you not want others in the town to take charge? I’m not sure what you’re saying here

pedit
lmao I like this not-gimmick-thing

[Spangled]

If you want to go To Close for Comfort or Charles in Charge I will probably have a problem.

I didn't realize that I was voting for the same playe twice, but whoever said one was rvs and the other was serious was prolly right.

the person you voted for both times said that
it was me!

do you not want others in the town to take charge? I’m not sure what you’re saying here

pedit
lmao I like this not-gimmick-thing

No. No gimmick. I hadn't recalled who I voted before. And now I've got to look to see why I decideded it was a serious vote. So much work.

oh no I wasn’t calling that a not-gimmick, I was calling using the names of the shows a not-gimmick

Sorry for my absence, I was either sleeping or working. On my lunch break now, but before I go back some food for thought: not reading a players post due to apathy seems worse than not reading it due to laziness. Galron, is it just Cook's posts you're apathetic towards? Why?

I'm not apathetic toward Cook's posts. I just don't feel like reading them. I guess maybe that is apathy; I don't know. Everyone else's posts are much shorter. That's got something to do with it. Cook could be open-wolfing (I have a personal bias against that term btw), but I don't know. It seems that if anyone is wolfing (there's that term again) it up again, I, and everyone else, would be alerted to it. In a succinct manner ofc.

this is a pretty different attitude to what you had at the start of the game IIRC

[Spangled]

hey, Facebones, you reckon DArby’s whiteknighting me a wee bit?
Thynhith, what do you think of Facebones’ entrance?

[Spangled]

MargotRosa, I see you’ve been giving attention to a few other games.
After you’re back from your D&D session, mind giving this one a bit? :D

[Spangled]

I have an Opinion on Facebones now but I want to see what Thynhith has to say about him before I detail it.

@Facebones yeah, I get you on the whiteknighting, and what’s more I agree; I don’t think DArby is whiteknighting me, since it seems more targeted

at

Galron than defending

me

especially since he’s disagreed with me a couple times already in-thread

I always get nervous that I’m getting pocketed/buddied, since I like to do it so much as scum

[Spangled]

How come you're anxious to hear about what Thynhith makes of my entrance? Like, why him specifically?

I want to hear what Thynhith thinks of you so I can better, or at all, read them. They’ve said only a couple things in-thread, and I want to draw them out and make them take some stances, engage them in the game. They’re obviously

around

, in some capacity, but they could be more

present

.

[Spangled]

Giving Roden a town read.

whence?

[Spangled]

@MargotRosa Can I see your math?

I would like that too!

Unless that person is Cook, because how can you be alert to an open wolf if you don't feel like reading their lengthy posts?

This proposes that you aren't reading her posts also.

No, it doesn’t. It means that either Facebones read the posts and decided that they weren’t open-wolfy, or that he didn’t read them. Something tells me that it’s the first, rather than the second.

@Galron: why’d you unvote me? are you no longer scumreading me? why?

[Spangled]

I thought it was funny how he looked like he didn’t want the strategy to be done, because it helped him when he was scum, but then kinda said, ‘I understand your hesitance, but it's something we kinda have to decide on sooner rather than later if it's going to work’, which read like he was supporting it to me. But other than that he hasn’t said much or done much; maybe some slight townpoints for pointing out to us the games where your strategy was implemented (or not) and for saying that no one should VT-claim, but that’s inside anyone’s scumrange

He’s in the null-basket, but what can you expect for 6 posts, I guess

[Spangled]

Aside from anything else, I did the math in Newbie2076 and showed empirically that it's a terrible strat.

The fact that Cook is pushing it, after having pushed it as scum, despite, according to Cook, it not being advantageous to scum, makes me think Cook understands it's a bad strat

VOTE: Cook

ehhh no I get Cook’s feeling that she wanted to get the strategy out there, into the world, I understand being excited about something but then getting a red role PM. She probably introduced it in the other game with the idea that it would het her towncred. That does mean I won’t give her any towncred for introducing the strategy here, but I don’t think it makes her scum.

pedit
that would be annoying

[Spangled]

I assume you missed a “don’t”, there, Cook

while you’re around — if you still are — can I get a response to this here below post?

This looks good.
Worst case we have a bulletproof IC, best case we can do a good ol’ follow the cop.
Should we be no-limming today?
What about if we get a cop claim or not-blocked tracker D2? do we lim then? ‘cause we might hit the doc
and if we get a cop claim, they might be masons — doesn’t that possibility throw a spanner in the works?

@Cook

[Spangled]

mewtaph hasn’t been posted since Sep 26, and he’s been repped out in the other game he’s playing in; hope we get a replacement soon if we need it

[Spangled]

I mean, I’d prefer that he come back all of a sudden but I mean either result is good

sorry for all the multiposting, everyone, by the way
arguably better than wallposting, though, :D
not that there’s much call to wallpost so far
anyway

[Spangled]

I have an Opinion on Facebones now but I want to see what Thynhith has to say about him before I detail it.

@Facebones yeah, I get you on the whiteknighting, and what’s more I agree; I don’t think DArby is whiteknighting me, since it seems more targeted

at

Galron than defending

me

especially since he’s disagreed with me a couple times already in-thread

I always get nervous that I’m getting pocketed/buddied, since I like to do it so much as scum

hey Thynhith, now that you’re around, can I have your opinion on Facebones’ entrance?

[Spangled]

I do think it's funny Galron said he isn't pocketing me and then town read me soon afterward lol. But going off his past games I don't think scum!Galron would do that. And no I'm not trying to get comfy in his pocket here.

Is it that you don’t think he’d do that as scum, and he must be therefore town, or just that it’s something he could do as town?
(which leaves him open to being scum, of course)

‘cause that’s a small reason to rule him out of being scum; a small reason to essentially locktown him

[Spangled]

Sorry for my absence, I was either sleeping or working. On my lunch break now, but before I go back some food for thought: not reading a players post due to apathy seems worse than not reading it due to laziness. Galron, is it just Cook's posts you're apathetic towards? Why?

I have an Opinion on Facebones now but I want to see what Thynhith has to say about him before I detail it.

@Facebones yeah, I get you on the whiteknighting, and what’s more I agree; I don’t think DArby is whiteknighting me, since it seems more targeted

at

Galron than defending

me

especially since he’s disagreed with me a couple times already in-thread

I always get nervous that I’m getting pocketed/buddied, since I like to do it so much as scum

hey Thynhith, now that you’re around, can I have your opinion on Facebones’ entrance?

Eh idk why it's that important but alright. Feels fairly natural to me, though FB has been lurking a bit yesterday and today. Can't read anything with only three posts

yeah, fair on the three posts
I disagree, however, I think so far Facebones is really towny

straight from his entrance he’s been asking questions and getting people to say stuff, asking me why I’m doing what I’m doing and putting pressure on Galron
if he were scum, me asking him if he thought DArby was whiteknighting me was me essentially giving scum!him a plausible-sounding read that he could use to introduce discord in the town
it was a great opportunity for scum!him to jump on DArby, but he didn’t
of course he could have just been playing it safe, but I think it’s still a point in his favour

it isn’t that much, and like you say it’s just three posts, but so far he’s my highest TR
not that that’s uh saying all that much :D

[Spangled]

As if to prove my point, in that game after revealing tracker, we eliminated the mafia power role d1, and had lost both PRs by the third night

yessss although that was only because the doctor had to claim at E-1, right? which isn’t something that should happen under Cook’s strategy because we no-lim D2 unless there’s a CC or such

@Roden
fair enough, I get that
I’ll be interested in revisiting your ideas on him later, when we’re a bit further into the day or even on d2 or something, and he’s said more (or not said more, as it may be)

[Spangled]

As if to prove my point, in that game after revealing tracker, we eliminated the mafia power role d1, and had lost both PRs by the third night

yessss although that was only because the doctor had to claim at E-1, right? which isn’t something that should happen under Cook’s strategy because we no-lim D2 unless there’s a CC or such

Doctor had to claim d3

wait, so tracker died n2? so doc didn’t save them?

as to your other post, isn’t it 50%?

but hm no yeah I see your point, and tracker follow-the-cop isn’t actually all that great
seeing someone going to you could be either doc or scum, if it’s two goons then tracking the non-kill goon looks like a clear but it ain’t
it frees up room for scum to make plays, which isn’t good

but MargotRosa — while you’re around, if you still are — what do you think of Galron, so far?

[Spangled]

facebones what are your thoughts on spangled

I don't feel like my three posts should put me at the top of anyones townpile.

just shows you how small my townpile is

I mean, it’s not like it should be large yet
it’s like page 5 or something, still got 8 ‘days’ left in the Day and I’ve made a ridiculous quantity of the posts so far

[Spangled]

oh crap page 7?
still, I’ve made about 50 posts so far, take away those fifty-odd posts and we’d be on page 5 :D
hell, I think we’d be on page 4, just

as to 123, I wasn’t buddying you there, what Galron was saying made no sense
I didn’t compliment you or anything; I just disagreed with him

[Spangled]

142 could be construed as buddying, but I’m confident in my facebones read so far, and I ask others to deny its logic
my tr gets better with this paranoia about being buddied, actually, I think

[Spangled]

I hit submit before I meant to
paranoia about being buddied is very towny, imo, and I’ve done it before as newb-er town than I am now :D
hell, I indulged in it in this game, about DArby, although once I thought it over on paper I realised it had no merit

anyway, I’m rambling, good night and make more content to engage with please

[Spangled]

142 could be construed as buddying, but I’m confident in my facebones read so far, and I ask others to deny its logic
my tr gets better with this paranoia about being buddied, actually, I think

this doesn’t really answer the idea that 142 could be buddying, not really anyway
what I meant to emphasise here is that I think my read makes logical sense, it’s not just idle buttering you up
although that still doesn’t quite answer it! but who cares

sorry and goodnight

[Spangled]

jeez Facebones you were awake late
or uh up early as the case may be :D
as to my read on Thynhith, no it didn't develop with that answer
I just hoped maybe they'd seen the stuff I had

I think so far wrt Thynhith I have a slight townlean; how they poked Galron over his sudden Roden read was the same thought I had
I really like to look for mindmeld with other players, 'cause games where I've mindmelded with someone and stuck with them all the way are just the best-feeling mafia games — you're not a poor, lonely VT struggling to make sense of it all; you have someone you trust fully and who trusts you
but that wasn't really mindmeld with Thynith anyway :D
so a wee townlean, just outta the null basket

[Spangled]

UNVOTE:
this just 'cause I'm not sure who I'm on

and Facebones, Roden's first six posts might have been more

useful

, but anyone can be useful
being towny is another matter
but I'll give it a rest

I think both Cook and MargotRosa are suffering from some OMGUS, here

[Spangled]

I agree with the Null read on Thyn though, his posts just feel empty. He asks a couple basic questions but doesn't really do anything with the responses anyone gives him, and the post dissecting Cook's strat looks good but is really just a rewording of what Cook already said before. Kinda just makes me think of scum who isn't sure what to say.

VOTE: Thynhith

ehhhh, I haven’t looked back but has anyone given them any answers? like, the questions of theirs that I liked were put to Galron, who hasn’t deigned to answer yet

I understand your thought process here though.

[Spangled]

spangled townread for sheer content

what if I’d posted a lot of rubbish?
how is it so that ∵ content ∴ town

[Spangled]

I will get a somewhat-detailed readslist out sometime later today, if possible
not that you need to know that, but everyone needs something to look forward to, in their day :D

[Spangled]

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

so do you no longer scumread Galron? why not?
and what is it about Cook that’s scummy?
what about me?

[Spangled]

Giving Roden a town read.

galron I'm not sure how you came to that read after only 5 posts, can you explain your thinking? you mentioned you were a "town hunter" before

Now you're here Galron, still waiting to see why you townread Roden?

A little more familiarty with him.

so what is it about his behaviour or tone that suggests he’s playing to his town meta and not his scum meta?

[Spangled]

I will get a somewhat-detailed readslist out sometime later today, if possible
not that you need to know that, but everyone needs something to look forward to, in their day :D

I don't like this post, but it may be a style thing.

it’s the bloody system transforming colon+capital-D into :D
I’ve got mine turned off, so I only just realised what you guys were seeing
it’s so hideous

I did not do what I said I’d do in that post
I will today, I swear it

[Spangled]

I'm townleaning spangles.

weren’t you scumreading me before? what’s changed?

[Spangled]

Spangled is getting townread for a high post count when a vast majority are asking questions and then responding to those questions

after

someone answered.

mate, I did that

once

sorry, that’s just such a silly misrep

[Spangled]

I'm townleaning spangles.

weren’t you scumreading me before? what’s changed?

A re-read of the game.

What did you see, in your reread?

[Spangled]

I swore I would do it yesterday, and the day before, and I did it neither of those times
so here’s a readslist

I think Facebones is probably town, for reasons I’ve detailed before — the buddying paranoia, the sharp questions right out of the gate
with a little more content I could probably solidify that read a little more

I like Cook more lately, I thought the pressure vote on MargotRosa was good — although it could have been OMGUS, too, I guess, but that can be from town — and I think her introducing the strategy is NAI. Hell, think about it — sooner or later, we’re going to find the game where she introduced the strategy as scum, and suspect her because of that. But she does it anyway, which, considering that, frankly looks towny. but that’s so WIFOMy that it should be just considered NAI, in my opinion. I liked her explanation for why high content can mean town, about which I meant to engage with her but never did, and I like her tone a little more lately. not a high tr but still a reasonable one

same goes for Thynhith, I like their kind of hardball, almost combative tone in these last few posts
170’s tone is a little weird, though
but overall I like their pushing and their kinda, insistent, piercing questions, how they’re noticing things that look like inconsistencies and pushing people for them
anyway, more of a townlean than it used to be, maybe a tr

uhhh Roden
I thought the first bit of 137 was

weird

nice small pressure push on Thynhith
some meager amount of townpoints for some of their earlier posts, like I think I’ve said before
null-bucket, maybe nearing towniness

Margot Rosa’s not looking that great, so far, but there’s not enough to read her on really truly
I thought 161 was

awful

I mean, ‘calling out bad plays’ but so far the only ‘bad play’ she’s ‘called out’ has been Cook’s
just the tone in general isn’t great
I don’t know, I really want to see how her read on Cook evolves over time
I mean, I get not having enough time/sleep for this game, but she has once or twice posted in other games and not posted in this one
low in the nullbucket, so far

DArby! a jojo’s fan and thus inherently suspect
ahem
It sounded like he had a strong scumread on Galron at the start, pulling out strong phrases like ‘anti-town busywork’, and he promised to take a look at Galron’s meta, but it never really materialised
I don’t get why that hasn’t been revisited
but I guess there hasn’t been much time in which to do that anyway, and what do I even expect from a ‘revisit’
I have to be careful of OMGUSing him here, really, but I did think it was weird when he went straight for Cook and me in a kind of, ‘alright wagon time’ when there are two/three slots not doing much and one of which hasn’t even repped in
at least wait for Mewtaph’s replacement to establish some kind of presence, dear lord
I do think his reason for scumreading me could easily come from town, though, and his critique of me so far as ‘giving unsubstantial reads and asking light questions’ is fair
in response, it’s hard to dig deeper when people keep not answering those same ‘light’ questions
I don’t know, I’ll throw him in the null basket

Galron
speaking of ‘light’ questions, I don’t like how he keeps answering-not-answering mine
I thought about quoting them here, but some are in a couple of pretty long quote pyramids
anyway, his semi-frenzy of activity at the start followed by very little activity after people started scumreading him is just so not good
and his scumread on me, also retracted a little after people started townreading me with just ‘I did a reread’ as the reason
just the ‘coincidence’ of him responding like that is scummy, I think
and y’know I get that being scumread takes away your energy for a game, it feels bad, but just all of his stuff feels off to me
he’s a scumlean, so far

anyway you can probably see that I’ve gotten hungrier and hungrier by the way this has become more rambly over time, as well as making progressively less sense
so I make look at this again and revise, that’s not the right word but I’m sure you know what I mean

and pedit batman those are new posts including an entrance into the thread give me some time and then I’ll look at them

[Spangled]

You are being townread by content size in 160, 189, and I don't think it's a stretch to add 196 by 1/3 of the participants. I'm critical of that because i fail to see how "sheer content" is a townleaning thing.

actually no let me respond to this one and then go away and then come back

so let me get this straight, I’m scummy because other people are townreading me for a bad reason?

[Spangled]

I am detecting a vibe of someone who cares a fair bit about what other players think of his slot

yeah, that is a weakness of mine, both in mafia and in real life
it skews my decision-making, in both areas

[Spangled]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

[Spangled]

I've never once said I scumread you.

I'm good with elem'ing either Cook or Spangled. Any objections?

My point still stands :mrgreen:

pffft come on :P

[Spangled]

I have been and I am suffering from a pretty severe stomach bug
idk if this merits V/LA but I’ll definitely post less for the next day or so, sorry
just as a heads-up, I guess

[Spangled]

I don't think any of the players here would lolhammer, and if any did I'd consider it a scum claim regardless of Cook's alignment flip, since it doesn't really seem like it's in anyone's town range.

eh this is some people’s first games, I think
or no actually just Thynhith’s IIRC, and he doesn’t seem like he’d lolhammer, but there’s a first time for everything
he could be a lolhammerer in the making!

[Spangled]

I agree with Val’s assessment that Cook putting forward the same strategy as she did in the scumgame, essentially the same exact one, is incredibly scummy.
This could be a bus, but Cook wasn’t under

that

much pressure before Val repped in, and Val could have just left out the whole Cook thing and gone straight for me, no repercussions and no consequences because after all, ‘he was just trying to elim scum’.
By no means does it rule out Val being scum, but I think there’s no way this is SvS.

[Spangled]

As to the Facebones read — he did the

towniest

things

that

had

been done so far, damnit, at least

to

my eyes; you may think differently but disagreeing on reads shouldn’t be a part of your

scumcase

of someone.

You

have to think back to what it was like, on

page

5 or whatever, whenever I made that Facebones read. Galron had said one-liners and little else — huh actually maybe nothing’s changed here — and by and large all we’d talked about was Cook’s strategy. Very little that was

AI

there. Sure Roden had been

helpful

but anyone can post links or be helpful; scum often do it earlygame to get some sweet, sweet cheap towncred.

Not

that Roden’s scum, and not that that kinda stuff can’t aid town, but it’s not AI-

enough

, if you know what I mean.

Then Facebones comes in, and

snap

question

snap

question, poking and prodding, trying to see why people are doing what. Which is towny, imo; the best way to

catch

scum is to force them to take stances on things so that later in the game you can see if their progression makes sense, or has an ulterior motive. And when I first played scum in mafia I found those questions incredibly intimidating; they would stress me out and I’d

slip

up. That’s why I try to ask questions; it helps doubly, triply. And he had some of the same thoughts that I had, which I think is towny. Mindmeld can’t happen with scum — at least, I hope. There wasn’t much of it yet, but I wanted more; having someone in mafia who you’ll back you up and who backs you up feels so good. So maybe there was some wishful thinking there, sure.

But I still think that for his little post count Facebones has been pretty

towny

, and pending some kind of reread I’ll stick with it.

[Spangled]

As to the Facebones read — he did the

towniest

things

that

had

been done so far, damnit, at least

to

my eyes; you may think differently but disagreeing on reads shouldn’t be a part of your

scumcase

of someone.

and, yeah, it’s not that

simple

, but that’s still a part of your read, IIRC

[Spangled]

I agree with Val’s assessment that Cook putting forward the same strategy as she did in the scumgame, essentially the same exact one, is incredibly scummy.

However, I’m not going to vote Cook just yet, because, 1), Cook deserves more of a chance to defend herself, 2) the more we get out of Cook the more associatives we can get if it’s a red flip, and 3), there’s no reason to be in a hurry to end this day

[Spangled]

pagetop!

I guess reasons 3 and 1 tie in together, but whatever

I do think Cook’s last post or two sounded like the transition from flailing to almost-given-up-scum, but if Cook’s town this is a good time for her to get some last minute reads out, and Cook if you’re scum well y’know I might still get elimmed, you should probably try your hardest to not die
that is a good strategy!

huh and I guess reasons 2 and 1 tie in together too
and so do 3 and 2
maybe they’re all the same reason

[Spangled]

In any case, it looks like people think Cook is the better flip for the day, although I still contend there is a chance Spangled and Cook just end up being the team.

With that in mind, I'm wondering if your argument against voting for Cook is scum motivated. 3 days is just enough time I don't think I need to go ahead and vote myself here without a bit of discussion, but I do think we have to be careful not to let this game stall out - which like I said before, I think it has potential for, and I feel will only benifit scum. Clearly, Cook has been quite content to let things ride.

You should all be aware by now what Cook considers the scum playbook for this situation, where no tracker does bite the bullet and claims D1. If you don't, I would consider that fairly negligent if you are town, given how we have gotten here. If you haven't already, go read it now, so you don't have to take my word for it as to what I suspect may well happen next. The first 10 posts are the important part.

It's fairly clear that we may need a day or two for every player to check in to sort out anything that comes as a result of putting a scummy player working from that playbook to E-1, and the only reason I am not doing so myself at this point is in case Cook does decide to depart from that strategy and self-hammer, in a situation where I have two players sat at null reads, and another player who I am scumleaning on the basis of a partial read that might change when she returns to the thread.

If there is any chance of a self-hammer, I want to make sure if there is anyone who wants to say something else that they have had a chance to say it, but because of the above, I am giving notice that my intent is to vote Cook once people have a chance to wiegh in.

Val, I think you’ve got your mind made up on me and nothing I say will change that. And don’t answer that with a semi-smug ‘yeah nothing should; you’re scum’.

Sorry, I’m so annoyed. I can’t respond logically to your posts. I’ve tried to outline what I thought at the time as best I could, and it hasn’t got me anywhere, and that just makes me mad. Maybe ‘cause I’m way too tired.

I’ll make a considered response tomorrow, after I have had sleep. Or maybe I won’t; this is brickwall-head-trumpet kind of stuff.

Just piss off with the ‘belatedly’ nonsense, it wasn’t belated if it was in time for you to see it, now, was it?
god, your tone, please
I won’t elaborate what I dislike about it; it’s not scummy or anything, if anything semi-self-righteousness is towny, it’s just making me mad
and I did elaborate, a little
damnit

far out, Facebones had said the only AI stuff so far
I stressed that the townpile he was sitting on top of at the time wasn’t large

and my point with how it can be stupid to read others for their reads is that you don’t know what goes on in another player’s head, at any stage, unless they choose to share that, or even if they choose to share it
sure, yeah, you can read others for reads, in fact you sort of have to, to say you shouldn’t is stupid itself, sorry, yeah, but approach that carefully, goddamnit, approach it carefully, because each other person will see the same posts from the same people differently to you

ha, I baited myself into responding
but let me respond more fully later

[Spangled]

sorry

[Spangled]

Val, I think you’ve got your mind made up on me and nothing I say will change that.

That's not really a fair assesment. You took issue with a part of why I am scumreading you - that I considered the early and strong townread on Facebones when his ISO was 3 very short posts as indicative of TMI.

You responded to that, giving further explaination as to why you said you did. I took that onboard, and examined it. I think my 327, which was probably the post you meant to quote above, is fairly clear evidence I took some time examining that explaination to see it holds. I did so because, if it did, I would have been prepared to adjust my view in light of it. I am afraid though, that it didn't.

I haven't just merely asserted that it didn't. I've done the legwork and linked the posts - all public information - and invited others to look at draw their own conclusions based upon it. Even if its framed as a conversation between the two of us, you weren't actually the audiance for that post, I'm not trying to convince you that you are scum, obviously.

If the issue is that I did write it as if I was talking directly to you in the first person, then I shall refain from doing so in future; but I don't really think it's fair for you to try and suggest I'm not giving you a fair shake as a result of me making a post that takes your explaination and tests it against the available evidence.

yeah, no, what I said wasn’t fair, I was just angry and overstating things
don’t not talk to me

[Spangled]

hey wait was that a hammer

[Spangled]

@spangled No. We're being forced to watch performance art which no-one bought tickets to

mafia pretty much completely be like

[Spangled]

hey wait was that a hammer

VOTE: Cook

You predicted the future.

I saw two votes on the previous page, and I thought someone said e-2 just before they went down

[Spangled]

@spangled No. We're being forced to watch performance art which no-one bought tickets to

Remind me to put this in my signature if it turns out Margot is Cooks scumbuddy after we are all said and done, will you?

damn straight I will

[Spangled]

I think Cook might actually be e+2 lol
man this timing is annoying I had things I wanted to say

[Spangled]

Get them out quick then, before the mod comes and locks the thread.

I actually have to go, I have a bus to catch, it being around 8 o clock here in the land of aus
I’m cutting it a wee bit too fine as it stands, and the things I want to say are long
I think I’ll have time tomorrow, an NK on me tonight would be beyond belief with the flak I’ve caught so far

goodbye for now

[Spangled]

oh damn, it’s still open
so one of the things I was going to say earlier, I realised when thinking about it today, should probably be saved for D2, actually, and is better not here now
so I might have dodged a bullet by not having enough time in the morning heh

But something else I wanted to talk about, is, I think the fact that this wagon formed nearly uncontested and without a counter-wagon means that, if Cook’s town, scum probably hopped on somewhere, probably earlier relatively

but if Cook’s scum, the other scum is probably one of the people off the wagon, or at least late coming to the wagon.

that’s how it works with wagon dynamics and such, right? someone dialogue with me on this

[Spangled]

I really want the flip, I feel slightly lost, slightly out of place

just a pity the night will be over the weekend, which is when I’m active most, of course

[Spangled]

What a pagetop.

Also, I started the Cook votes. Don't get ahead of yourself Val

That's such a bad argument tho and you know it.

It's not. Every post I made up until 162 is encouraging Town to vote Cook

I mean you know very well that scum can bus their own partner. Being first doesn't always mean being town.

yeah, but almost always it does
this wasn’t a regular bus, this was Margot being the first to properly scumread Cook, IIRC
sure, Val might have come in later regardless, but Margot can’t have known that

[Spangled]

Which is why I think, still, that she's likely Town.

how’d you go from calling her ‘performance art’ scummy to this?

[Spangled]

Which is why I think, still, that she's likely Town.

how’d you go from calling her ‘performance art’ scummy to this?

It's anti-Town. Which is different to Scum. One is hampering Towns ability to find scum. The other is being scum

oh, I see
so you do in fact think she’s town now and that this flip will be green, but that she’s doing ridiculous anti-town, scummy things

[Spangled]

pagetop!

given it looks like out illustrious mod is on high alert to lock the thread the second the hammer comes down.

and this quote is funny

[Spangled]

Val’s still alive because scum killed Galron for crumbing.

[Spangled]

just, sorry, haven’t read the last two pages, just wanted to say that quickly
his crumbs — or one of them, at least — were so obvious that I was pretty sure he wasn’t a PR, just either bad scum setting up a fakeclaim or a VT trying to draw the scum shot
what a play! what a fellow!

that’s the thing I deliberated on talking about before D1 end, btw, but I decided (rightly) it’d be better to wait, just in case he

was

in fact a PR, because to out him like that would be a wee bit embarrassing heh

[Spangled]

I

really

don't want to have a d1 2.0 where it's filled with WIFOM.

amen to that, if nothing else

[Spangled]

@Darby why D3? We should be focusing on it this day. Not sure why you want to delay - your attitude is scummy to me

That doesn't surprise me.

I want to delay it d3 because we don't have an established pattern of night kills and I feel it's intentional misdirect but I can't prove it. I

really

don't want to have a d1 2.0 where it's filled with WIFOM.

Perhaps, perhaps. I see your point - scum gains nothing directly from killing Galron, so it's possible they're trying to throw us off. Better to ignore Galron's NK for now. In the meantime I'll read over Galron's iso

The whiplash tho.

What happened to you wanting to break this down today?

maybe what you said convinced thynhith, or at least gave them a new idea or stance on it?
why are you jumping on that, there?

[Spangled]

Honestly it was smostly gut, but bolstered somewhat by Darby coming in immediately after thread reopened to instantly direct conversation to be about something very specific

I understand where you’re coming from with that, but I disagree
sometimes you have a thought that you have to get out there
and isn’t thynhith directing the conversation towards specific places just as much?

[Spangled]

Val’s still alive because scum killed Galron for crumbing.

crumbs:
45’s ‘fall in crumb’, next post he links ‘fooled around and fell in love’
in 53 he basically goes, to my mind look at me look at me, I am the cop! with ‘if I find anyone tonight to guilty, I'll probably hold onto it until Day 3 just to see what kind of scramble Day 2 is.’

maybe I’m misreading 53 somewhat? or maybe it was even supposed to be ambiguous wording?, but 45 is obviously supposed to be a crumb

pedit
hey yeah thanks, I’m feeling a lot better, actually

I get that, I guess, but if you realise an idea’s right it can sometimes make you go, oh wait no all my thoughts beforehand are for nothing

[Spangled]

I don't think a PR would be so blatant, but newbscum high on an easy mis-elim might go for it.

that was my thought, too, actually

dang you actually beat me to my revelation; I was here thinking I had something and you had it already :]

[Spangled]

Crumbing makes the most sense but it’s a stretch to read that as crumbing.

I thought 45 was a pretty obvious crumb, whether other posts were or not
unless you mean it’s obviously not actually crumbing because it’s so obvious? which, fair I guess

Except the one person who barely posted and isn’t used to Galrons posting habits.

That actually makes a fair degree of sense, but I worry Facebones is low-hanging fruit, here

I’d like to see your Thynhith read fleshed out, I think they’ve been pretty towny so far.

[Spangled]

VOTE: Facebones

What's your deal?

I'm just not a big fan of D1's, there's no information to go off. Apologies for my lurky play, but for me it's easier to class people as either town or scum from their interactions with other players and seeing which ones I think are legitimate. It might be stupid or whatever, but I feel if I interrupt these people's interactions it'll interfere with the flow and I won't be able to get a clear a read on them as what I could.

that’s fair, I guess
so do you have many reads, yet, from your observing?

[Spangled]

oh lol Val pretty much asked that and then Margot repeated it, already

What I want to do, is work out Facebones' deal.

If it needs a Galron explanation, then it makes perfect sense to me that someone who is checked out of the game would come back into the game and NK someone after reading a handful of posts and, basically guessing at random, picks someone ridiculous to NK.

It's a good lead, and everyone should take it seriously

I think that actually makes sense

@Cook I know I’m beating a dead horse here, or at least one that’s a little more hurt than it rightfully should be, and you should probably call the RSPCA either way, but what benefit would scum!me get from TMIing Facebones?

[Spangled]

I think that if Facebones is town he’s very, very tasty low-hanging fruit
but it’s also possible that he’s just non-invested scum

which is the trouble!

[Spangled]

557. I mistyped, which may have confused, but I corrected at 559.

I hate typing on my phone. Just lost another post ffs.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Even with Cooks endorsement that’s still not a town consensus. Especially if Roden is saying that he doesn’t suspect you because he labeled you TvT in 533 when it didn’t even happen. If a third party is already bringing up a possibility of a scenario that didn’t happen, I’m sure more would if it did. I’d imagine someone such as yourself or Margot would have seen that would be easily called out if the other died. What would be your defense even? “Lol wasn’t me Roden and Cook said so.”? I don’t think that 2 people saying your argument is TvT and neither of you dying proves that it was TvT. I do think you’re both town yea, but not for Roden’s reasoning.

No, I'm sorry, I'm still not following what you were trying to say in 569.

Thynhith was on thin ice as a placeholder of who could also make that mistake as scum!FB's partner.

'That mistake' being what? Are we still talking about the Galron kill here, and you consider it a mistake?

I was blinded by hearing multiple people say [Galron was NK'd for crumbing] that it didn't cross my mind how they were saying it.

Which people? Blinded in what sense?

Galron’s death was an objective mistake and scum gained nothing from it. Genuinely a bad play all around.

Roden first and then Spangled saying that Galrons death was the cause of him crumbing. When Spangled said it a second time I went “Shit I think they’re onto something” and didn’t stop to think why did both [Roden and Spangled] give that reasoning. Given Spangled play style I find this change of pase weird because it comes off more assured than his other posts. I’m on mobile right now so I’m spitballing here but 544 comes off way more assertive than I’m used to. It was so matter-of-fact it changed my opinion completely. I never paused to think that it was odd how he came out so strong d2 with that read that I do believe he came up with that independently of Roden.

I was assertive ‘cause I held/hold the opinion strongly ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’d been speculating about it for a good long while, ever since his ‘fall in crumb’ post

[Spangled]

pffft I meant @Val oh goodness
for some reason they’re in the same basket in my head, it seems

[Spangled]

who do you think is scum atm, Margot?

[Spangled]

I’ll give game-advancing content sometime, I swear. Problem is, I want to do a full reread of the thread and maybe some ISOs besides, both to answer Val’s question on where I’m at wrt DArby and Margot, and to get a handle on the game, and I haven’t had time so far. Soon.
tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow

[Spangled]

shit shit shit
(if you’ll pardon my Französisch)

for a few days I’ve been hovering in an unmotivated state with regard to this game, often not thinking about it for days at a time and then this morning I was like, okay, yes, it’s time to knuckle down and get something done, figure something out

and then I just completely forgot that I was even in a mafia game

[Spangled]

needless to say, I haven’t done a reread, and I hate myself for this and other reasons

[Spangled]

um, I think Val and Margot are probably town
I think Vulture’s entrance is townie, and Roden was hovering for me in a spot where he was nullish but occasionally he would make a good-feeling post, like someone, I think Thynhith said, earlier

I

hate

Thynhith as a half-assed last minute kinda wagon
I mean, Vulture’s doing their best not to half-ass their read, and I think is considering it genuinely

but I dislike the jump-on from FB; it feels like ‘well we’re not limming DArby I guess we could go for some other townie I mean it’s all the same to me’
and MargotRosa doesn’t seem to have a basis for their read?

I don’t know, I thought Thynhith’s tone was good and how they engaged with the thread and tried to puzzle stuff out was good

[Spangled]

I don’t know, I feel like the thread’s shifted to considering Thynhith the Lim Candidate, and when that happens for no reason and consensus suddenly, wrenchingly,

shifts

, it always seems to be a mislim
just the whole situation feels off

[Spangled]

@Cook I know I’m beating a dead horse here, or at least one that’s a little more hurt than it rightfully should be, and you should probably call the RSPCA either way, but what benefit would scum!me get from TMIing Facebones?

...the simplest answer to this is nothing, but when scum TMI

they don't mean to do it.

that’s true
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Spangled]

fuck wouldn’t it just be an absolute

lark

if Margot were scum
wouldn’t that just be an immense proportion of trolling

I mean, maybe I’m selling myself and my lack of forgettability too high, but how was I her only proper townread, somewhere earlier, and then I think 616 I was town, and then 681 she forgets I’m in the game?

although that is a time gap of maybe a week total, and a good three or so days between each of those events at least
so

[Spangled]

if FB isn’t scum I don’t know where I am in this game
I mean, I don’t think I ever have, whenever I’ve thought that I knew where I was I was suddenly not there anymore
but that’s neither here nor there

whichever wagon finally really takes off we can’t rush it
we can’t

[Spangled]

we have one day, seven hours before EoD, which means I’ll be here again before that happens
so I should away to sleep because real life > mafia

[Spangled]

I'm not engaging in the back and forth anymore. It's ridiculous, and looks bad.

I don't understand this attitude. Looks bad for whom? Frankly, if you think I am scum, and I am revealing myself as such through these interactions, then that's a positive for town and you would want them to continue, no?

this makes a good point

‘looks bad’ is just awful

[Spangled]

I don’t know, I feel like the thread’s shifted to considering Thynhith the Lim Candidate, and when that happens for no reason and consensus suddenly, wrenchingly,

shifts

, it always seems to be a mislim
just the whole situation feels off

I mean, isn’t that what happened to Cook?

but at the same time, one wagon standing unopposed with no one willing to finally finish it is often town as well, which means there are meta-wagon-analysis things in favour of both Thyn and FB being town

but who else could be scum?
well, probably frickin’ anyone at this point

I think I’ll stand behind TRs of Vulture, Val and Margot to keep myself sane for now

[Spangled]

still 2 scum, still 2 PRs
7 people, so MyLo at 5 people after today assuming a mislim
and, y’know, you know the saying, expect the worst so that no matter what you’re not disappointed
or something like that

[Spangled]

oh shit wait I’m having my covid shot tomorrow midday, if I have a severe reaction to it I obviously won’t be able to post
maybe I should vote now

eh nah I’ll decide something in the morning

[Spangled]

there are 15 hours left
VOTE: Facebones

this boils down to, I don’t think Thyn is scum
their tone in the last few posts doesn’t sound great, I agree, but when I read the posts again it just feels like sheer, complete newbie defensiveness
not AI at all, to my mind

whereas I hate FB’s hop-on to Thyn’s wagon, and I think we’re all ignoring how he’s strayed from his town meta, like Thyn pointed out earlier, and how it makes sense for him to have killed Galron.

[Spangled]

Facebones is E-1

Thyn, Vulture, you’re both getting angry, and passive aggressive, the word choice sarcastic and combative
be calm, I beg of you

[Spangled]

still 2 scum, still 2 PRs
7 people, so MyLo at 5 people after today assuming a mislim
and, y’know, you know the saying, expect the worst so that no matter what you’re not disappointed
or something like that

What if anything does this mean?

I’m just trying to get the gamestate clear in my head ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
happy scumday, too

[Spangled]

@Margot I see you’re around in another game, could you explain your Thyn read?
and what you think of Facebones, at this point?

[Spangled]

Spangled, you don't think Thyn is scum, nor do you think Val, Margot or Vulture are scum, therefore the scum pair is most likely DArby and myself?
Do you honestly believe that?

oh man I hadn’t considered the consequences of having that many townreads
uh, I don’t really know, in the end

I

hope

it’s true, it would be nice and neat
like I said, if you flip green, I’m up a creek

[Spangled]

hey wtf wasn’t that a hammer

[Spangled]

yeah, it was; I put him at E-1

before the thread locks, Margot, I want to ask again, what’s your Thyn read and its basis?

[Spangled]

dangit Margot did you nope in, hammer FB, not answer my question and then nope out again

[Spangled]

I was Townreading Darby, almost exclusively

I think that’s why they killed DArby. You were always going to be the decision-maker in this lim-or-lose scenario; you’re not just UTR but almost beyond reproach, unlike Margot — who, while UTR, has done some sketchy stuff, like that hammer without letting FB claim — unlike Vulture, whose slot hung back and who hasn’t had time to become UTR, unlike Thynhith who has done hell of sketchy things, and obviously unlike me; I’ve been through a lot of flak.

Outside of all the possible WIFOM reasons — a scum!vulture and margot did it to make things easier, a scum!thyn and me did it so we would look innocent, a scum!thyn and vulture did it as this crazy weird thing where they’d bus each other and town would hurt itself in confusion or something — that’s the reason. You weren’t going to vote DArby, and he was townreading you pretty strongly back, and that’s a nice little townblock, which scum can’t abide, especially in LiLo.

[Spangled]

Thynhith and I are masons, by the way. I crumbed twice, once in a silly way and once in a not-so-silly. First in 47, where I mentioned Thomas Cromwell, whose nickname is Crumb, in Hilary Mantel’s Wolf Hall series, to some, and cold-voted Thynhith.

I did the second at Thyn’s urging to get a better crumb, less silly crumb, and it was, in 323, I put, around a bunch of words,

Code: Select all

[colour=f][/colour]

The first letter of every third word with that code around it spells out ‘thyn’, except the last group of three, which is there just to throw anyone too observant off. We checked with schadd_, and it doesn’t break any rules.

Thynhith’s crumb was, the first letter of each of their first seven posts spells out ‘Spangle’, and then the ninth begins with D.

The way Margot has really clearly drawn the battle lines, and how Vulture sort of fell into step with her with that gif that said to you, Val, ‘well what more do ya want?’, made me pretty sure that they were the scumteam.

I was going to wait a little more, let Vulture draw the lines a little clearer, so that it’d become obvious that they’d switched from having two independent brains to basically being one entity, intent on limming me and Thyn and doing it as fast as possible, but I really can’t just wait around for ages, stressed and waiting for someone else to post.

[Spangled]

VOTE: MargotRosa

[Spangled]

I like your pfp, by the way, Galron. A year or two ago I might have known which xkcd that was from, I knew them inside and out then.

[Spangled]

hang on, is town winning this game? or not?

[Spangled]

well why are you pretending to be town, then, Vulture?

[Spangled]

fuuuuuu
that was my fault, I should have held back my vote
and if I’d gone Vulture instead

[Spangled]

Well out of the scum team Margot and you, I certainly thought you were scummier. I am getting a very strong fucking feeling I want to expunge D3 of mason chat

:c

[Spangled]

I'm proud of myself that I trusted myself and hard TRed Spangled more or less the whole way through that game

I’m not proud of myself

man, other people should have gotten mason
I should have trusted Margot’s genuineness

[Spangled]

I threw this game, this is my fault. Sorry, town. Didn’t stop Cook’s lim when I had reason to think she was town, took out Facebones when I had reason to think he was town, took out Margot because I was too lazy to go back and read the goddamn thread.

[Spangled]

makes sense that the two repped slots are scum, now that I actually think

[Spangled]

yeah

[Spangled]

I dislike larges on principle, they’re pretty painful with all the people you have to sort and all the mechanics that are often flying around and so on. It does depend on just how large the large is and how gimmicky it is. One thing you should do, especially if you’re going to play a large, but you should do it regardless, is get an avatar; it really helps people recognise you in-thread and such.

[Spangled]

makes sense that the two repped slots are scum, now that I actually think

For what it's worth, I think Roden had genuine IRL activity problems - I didn't detect any sense that he was unhappy playing scum, or how the game was going.

I also think the person who occupied my slot previously never picked up their role pm because they had abandoned the site between joining the queue and the game start.

I mention this because I wouldn't want you to have a false impression going forward because that's how it worked out in this game. I've replaced into 3 games, now, I think, and 2 of those were town.

Yes, that’s fair. I do think I a higher-than-random amount of rep-ins are on scum, however.