Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

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Can everyone do me a solid and order a reads list town to scum? (Or scum to town) no reasons this will help a lot

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where's math
where are peopleeeeeeeeee
i mean it is4 am

I have been busy. That’s a thing

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So I am thinking after a quick skim if someone could explain to me why Three and Jacket were fighting that’s be awesome.

The kill from MELO to elo is usually very indicative so I kinda want to know more about three.

It’s 80 pages and a slow Chog so some help would be awesome

[MathBlade]

It’s a scumclaim because in elo the scummiest person is supposed to vote first.
We all just “fake vote” then whoever is hammered drops a real vote on their top scumspect.

[MathBlade]

Can everyone do me a solid and order a reads list town to scum? (Or scum to town) no reasons this will help a lot

Still want this please?

[MathBlade]

Math I don't think I've EVER seen that happen

Damn then you haven’t seen a properly played elo.
We get two for one with fake voting.

By making the scummiest player vote first then either A> scum votes first and we get a likely town out of it or B> town votes first which makes us not lose the game by hammering the wrong player.

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https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... =Fake+Vote

Here’s an example bji had to vote first iirc it’s been a year.

Fake vote strat in elo is good.

[MathBlade]

Can everyone do me a solid and order a reads list town to scum? (Or scum to town) no reasons this will help a lot

Pretty please? Don’t make me puppy gif?

[MathBlade]

Can everyone do me a solid and order a reads list town to scum? (Or scum to town) no reasons this will help a lot

i have been lazy, but ig this is where i'm at rn

jacket, house/math
t3
std
dwlee
zen

i think most people believe zen to be the traitor here?

It’s a scumclaim because in elo the scummiest person is supposed to vote first.
We all just “fake vote” then whoever is hammered drops a real vote on their top scumspect.

sure, i've heard of the first part... (although it hasn't always seemed to work that nicely ime)
now what is this "fake vote" thing?

You just use hurt or heal tags or something clearly indicated NOT a real vote.
Then whoever is fake “hammered” has 24 hours to vote or it’s a scum claim and everyone dog piles.

Thanks for the list.

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ok but

is a game with 5 town prs, 2 of them being 1-shot bulletproof, even balanced lmao

why do you townread zen

Is there a list of roleclaims somewhere?
And unless we know what scum have anything is possible.
I think focusing on probable is more likely the best approach.

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zen having the exact same role as almost50 (1-shot bp neighbour) in a game with a bp traitor

You and Dwlee are talking traitor. Why?

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I'm going to claim. I'm an Informed Townie. I know there is a Bulletproof Mafia Traitor in the game. I think the quotes below are Redtea signalling to the rest of the mafia that they are said traitor, partly given it was a really weird out-on-a-limb connection to make in the context of the discussion to that point, and partly because there are very few reasons to make such an effort to hint that you are mafia-aligned, other than being the mafia traitor.

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

im gay

VOTE: redtea

I could be wrong, but there's nothing really lost by me claiming anyway as that's my only power.

Oh ah here okay

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(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

im gay

This sort of shit should also be warned/banned.
LGBT should not be a synonym for evil.
This seems to have been coming up a lot recently.

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did you... not think of that until now?

anyway, i'm not that sure on how to rank std and t3
skimmed a bit of their isos and i want to swap them again, um

math?
wanna read t3?

I have my ways that work pretty well in elo.

If it wasn’t elo I would give a dump and show what I am doing but I have a pretty good elo rate. I am gonna do my thing which is just gather a shit ton of information first then reread the thread at once with it and look for inconsistencies.

[MathBlade]

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

I just ran this setup. I think this is a balanced game. Here if all 5 pr claims are town we have an informed mailman, two 1-shot bp neighbors, a complex vigilante, and an odd-night invest even-night useless.

Depending on scum power I think this is pretty balanced. Scum seem to have a roleblocker to deal with investigative claims, and a vigilante is functionally a conftown here. So why would this not be balanced compared to the game I ran, depending on how much power scum gets.

Wasn't cool cookie informed mailman town? Did you miswrite that?

This is a different game Zen

Like reads pwease?

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Math I don't think I've EVER seen that happen

Damn then you haven’t seen a properly played elo.
We get two for one with fake voting.

By making the scummiest player vote first then either A> scum votes first and we get a likely town out of it or B> town votes first which makes us not lose the game by hammering the wrong player.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... =Fake+Vote

Here’s an example bji had to vote first iirc it’s been a year.

Fake vote strat in elo is good.

Even if someone does a play you disagree with/is anti-town, it doesn't make them scum, though. But this is a pointless argument because I lost my will and didn't vote. I'm fine with doing things your way, though.

I haven’t said anyone is scum though. The fake vote thing is pretty common in elo. You always want scum to vote first if you can. It’s very sus in elo to just drop a vote for that reason. It robs us of fake voting. Lock scum? No. Suspicious? Yes.

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I think the general consensus is zen/T3 yeah? I will focus on them tonight.

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Sorry misread I have been doing a shit ton of overtime recently.

What makes you say town is underpowered? I have seen some games with 3 goons for scum before.

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I really wish there was a list of claims somewhere.

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Sorry misread I have been doing a shit ton of overtime recently.

What makes you say town is underpowered? I have seen some games with 3 goons for scum before.

The only actual useful PR would be a complex vig, then there's just...a mailman that knows about the traitor, and a bulletproof neighbor. That's not enough roles that do things.

Are you saying lack of invest?
Vig is IC which in normals is a confirmed town.
Mailman knows about the traitor which becomes a second IC announcing traitor immediately.

Invests generally are meant to provide IC/hints to the game.

If you look at a recent normal I played with Kyo recently there was FN babysitter and IC versus three goons.

I think I would need a claims list or a general sense of PRs left before judging one way or another.

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I really wish there was a list of claims somewhere.

You know all the relevant ones.

Zenman - Bulletproof neighbor
T3 - Odd Night Traffic Analyst/Even Night Neighbor Finder
Everyone else - VT

Hmm T3 claimed blocked both nights.

When did T3 claim?

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I really wish there was a list of claims somewhere.

You know all the relevant ones.

Zenman - Bulletproof neighbor
T3 - Odd Night Traffic Analyst/Even Night Neighbor Finder
Everyone else - VT

Hmm T3 claimed blocked both nights.

When did T3 claim?

He got run up and forced to claim day 1 because I was tunneling him (I didn't like the way he pushed fua).

I am going to go read D1 because I think sorting T3 is paramount here.

Because if T3 is town scum didn’t/don’t view him as a threat.

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Vote Count 4.00

TheZenMan (0):

House (0):

Save The Dragons (0):

T3 (0):

Jacket (0):

Dwlee99 (0):

HawaiianPizza (0):

Not Voting (7):

Everyone

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate. Day 4 ends when an elimination is decided or in (expired on 2021-10-28 09:00:00).

Announcements

Sorry for the delays - I'm not very active on weekends.

Possums

Me rushing to start this day phase

@mod: Can we get some prods on STD please? Thanks!

[MathBlade]

In the words of T3, please don't lime me.

Who would you lim instead?

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T3 still hasn't said why he was withholding N1 info. He withheld being roleblocked and messaged by mailman for no reason. Why exactly was that?

Not sure what you’re getting at here. The mailman flipped town. Iirc T3 said no result or am I mixing stuff up?

[MathBlade]

I think Zen is just scum here. The more I look over things the more it looks like Zen is pushing T3 for being mechanically bad vs a scumread. I don’t think if T3 is scum that he would have done that.

I also don’t like how when I asked who the top scumread was he dropped a single mention of StD then went back to picking on T3

*Fake vote T3*

Unofficial fake vote count
Zen (1) — Math

It takes 3 to hammer to force them to drop a vote in 24 hours.

[MathBlade]

I think Zen is just scum here. The more I look over things the more it looks like Zen is pushing T3 for being mechanically bad vs a scumread. I don’t think if T3 is scum that he would have done that.

I also don’t like how when I asked who the top scumread was he dropped a single mention of StD then went back to picking on T3

*Fake vote Zen*

Unofficial fake vote count
Zen (1) — Math

It takes 3 to hammer to force them to drop a vote in 24 hours.

Lmao I can’t type my fake vote is on Zen

[MathBlade]

I did not ask about T3 I asked if I had the events correct. That surely doesn’t rise to you going back and forth asking leading questions of T3.

You are literally spending more effort on T3 than who your top scumread is. I find that odd.

In this case yes. Unless you think T3 is scum it’s distracting and noise. We have to get this right today.

I am fake voting as discussed previously. It’s a cooperative game. I think you’re scum and therefore am fake voting you. If enough people fake vote you and you’re fake hammered you drop a real vote. That’s how this shit works.

[MathBlade]

Whoops takes four votes to fake hammer.

VC is
Zen (3) - Math, Jacket, T3

4 votes to fake hammer Zen is at E - 1

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So Zen is fake hammered and has 24 hours to place a real vote

(expired on 2021-10-25 02:34:49)

[MathBlade]

I think everyone here is going about things the wrong way. My goal here is to nab a scum. Whether traitor or group scum I don’t care. I just fake voted the person most likely to be scum to me. When the timer ends (plus a little bit of time for time zones to be generous), if Zen hasn’t voted it’s open season so I am going to assume Zen votes.

If Zen is scum, Zen almost certainly votes a town unless scum plan a bus. That vote can be analyzed.
If Zen is town who votes a town then game is over scum have completely fooled everyone and gg.
If Zen is town who votes scum we have a game folks and we can repeat the process.

So I think a lot of trying to have an exact solve is theater right now. Zen should be here trying to figure out where his vote goes if he is town.

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Aka everyone please stop trying to be heroes and solve the damn game. Just find a scum, one, and work from there.

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i do think zen is the most likely scum here.

is it bad to talk about things in the meantime?

Bad no. However I would advise not getting too attached to a certain solve because we need to see who Zen votes. So just I would advise caution. I definitely would avoid stuff like what T3 did as a final solve.

I also would avoid what Hawaiian is doing with we have 3-4 days left. We still haven’t heard from STD and we might be lucky and get a round of second fake votes.

That’s why the timer is on Zen. Without Zen voting it becomes we have to assume Zen scum and move on.

[MathBlade]

Okay y’all looks like there’s no turbo elim so there’s a scum in zen or STD.

So the idea here is you fake vote the scummiest player and then they have to vote in Zen or StD.

I am thinking either Hawaiian or Dwlee but kinda wanna see where things go.

[MathBlade]

Well I mean … at least that’s one step out of the way and speeds things up I guess

*fake vote Hawaiian*

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Yeah I am here. You got a question for me or something?

Can you throw a fake vote on Hawaiian?

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With 5 not vote locked it takes three to fake hammer

Hawaiian (2) - Math, Jacket

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Actually four not vote locked lmao technically Dwlee is

So me Jacket Hawaiian T3 not vote locked still one more for fake hammers

Dwlee you don’t count youre vote locked

[MathBlade]

I don't get to vote? This is ridiculous

You voted STD.

The point is to have those who haven’t made their vote yet fake vote.

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Why is this a thing

Forcing scummy players to vote first helps in later days and forces scummy players to take a stance.

Eg assuming we get town today it means either scum intentionally bussed or tried to win it and failed.

[MathBlade]

Why is this a thing

Forcing scummy players to vote first helps in later days and forces scummy players to take a stance.

Eg assuming we get scum today it means either scum intentionally bussed or tried to win it and failed.

Scum lmao I can’t type ffs lmao

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE

Just realised that there are 3 scum left so they could easily flashhamer with just one town vote. So actually fake voting is probably best.

Fake vote STD

Put your vote back on STD or it’s a scum claim.

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UNVOTE:
???

C’mon now.

Just because you don’t like the inevitable outcome of fake voting you should know votes are locked in elo

[MathBlade]

I feel like if you're traitor here you could be bussing STD and then forcing the vote between STD and I because you think there is a chance a townie votes me thinking I'm associated with you

Then we take the W of a scum elim either way and sort tomorrow

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If anything a scum bus is good for us as then we get a scum either way.

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Maybe presumptive, but feel like ZenMan is trying to get voted.

Maybe but if so we get a scum so yay?

Pedit: That’s why we fake voted and the scummiest player was hammered you.

That’s why you had 24 hours to drop a vote.

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VOTE: Save the Dragons
It was just a thought about being avoiding a flash miselim but whatever.

Dwlee back on STD.

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How many of your are newbies? Lemme just ask that. Because this page feels like very newbie queue ish.

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Confirm not hammering

I have meetings FYI so don’t expect to the second confirms

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With 4 not vote locked it takes three to fake hammer

Hawaiian (2) - Math, Jacket

T3, Hawaiian what are your fake votes?

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Now it’s between me and Jacket and T3 who should fake vote next.

*fake vote T3*

Since Hawaiian seems skeptical of T3 I would like them to vote next since I think Jacket and I are both town. Probably T3 too but I would feel safer if T3 voted next.

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Oh wait STD is also a player that exists lmao

I also had a newbie moment

#failMath

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Meh their vote is stuck on Std anyway so they don’t have a fake vote

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Probably but I would rather play things out step by step and get official VCs etc.

Sometimes people say one thing and do another. Or sometimes votes can be illuminating.

Go slow to go fast

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Meh their vote is stuck on Std anyway so they don’t have a fake vote

Their vote is stuck on Zen

Like this is what I get for posting while working lmfao

[MathBlade]

eh sure

may i ask why you think jacket is town

Meh their vote is stuck on Std anyway so they don’t have a fake vote

Their vote is stuck on Zen

Like this is what I get for posting while working lmfao

lmao i've been burning some braincells today too nw

It’s just a vibe thing. Like when I talk with him I just click in a way that I am not with you. I know that’s a shitty answer but it’s where I am at.

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VOTE: Zeman

Yolo let’s rock this!

[MathBlade]

math sorry I took your hammer

Why are you sorry?

I think Zenman and StD is likely SvS

I don’t care who hammers long as we get scum.

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Gg everyone

Btw the stuff I said about fake voting was true. I played this game similar to an IC in the newbie queue.
I just omitted the part where you put your townreads under a lot of scrutiny and if no one townreads a player that’s almost certainly a giveaway they are town in elo.

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Sorry for the delayed hammer T3 I was just a bit nervous that zen could still be traitor so I was staging in case he was.

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Good work. Props to scum for pulling this off!

Note to self: Never speculate about game setups.

Some speculation is good.
The speculation that town has to have an investigative is not always true.

I commented on that in the game I said I was scum in before.
Town has to have a way to clear a certain number of people which was present.
Hawaiian was very close to catching onto T3 having to be scum which was scary.

[MathBlade]

What does JOAT mean?

It means Jack of all trades.

It means that you have a one shot of 2 or more abilities.

Eg a Joat of all trades 1 shot cop, 1 shot vigilante
Means that the player can 1 shot cop or 1 shot vigilante on a given night.
If they cop then they still have a one shot vigilante for the rest of the game.

Like a toolbelt

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The hardest part of scum is figuring out what town wants then selling it to them while making them think it’s their own idea.

Town wanted zen scum so I sold that.

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GG all!

Than Kyou!

You’re welcome House. Couldn’t do it without your good start.

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House why am I voting you?

We're distancing, remember?

Aren't we all

Just look at that quote pyramid.

LOOK AT IT!

T3 your one attempt at meta on me was doing this same exact wishy washy thing where you shade me and then do a ~idk~ at the end and you were scum

Good thing I don't believe in meta

This is a legit mta tell.

mta = Mafia Traffic Analyst (my speculation)

LMAO
the secomd one actually wasn't a crumb. just a typo

Wouldn’t be the first time mason XD (inside joke to a prior game)