Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[Almost50]

Hello, everyone! I see there are more people I don't know than there are recognizable faces.

Can anybody catch me up or point me to what to read?

[Almost50]

Thank you

[Almost50]

I'm going to claim. I'm an Informed Townie. I know there is a Bulletproof Mafia Traitor in the game. I think the quotes below are Redtea signalling to the rest of the mafia that they are said traitor, partly given it was a really weird out-on-a-limb connection to make in the context of the discussion to that point, and partly because there are very few reasons to make such an effort to hint that you are mafia-aligned, other than being the mafia traitor.

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

im gay

VOTE: redtea

I could be wrong, but there's nothing really lost by me claiming anyway as that's my only power.

I checked those posts and saw someone else also said they were gay (Hawaiian Pizza iirc). Do you suspect both are mafia, or do you think HP (Hewlett-Packard??) was joking/meme'ing?

(Silly question, but I'm just trying to force myself into the game tbh. Otherwise I won't be posting much, which Dwlee will interpret as me being Sucmmy. See, Dwlee seems to think me posting is scummy, while me not posting is also scummy)

[Almost50]

like 95% of the time an unprovoked fakeclaim, details about role pm, or soft will come from town

My Role PM was in English. Does that count?

[Almost50]

The claim is very likely a lie.

Are crumbing "Scum that know there's no traitor" or am I missing something?? cookie claimed specific info (i.e. didn't stop at "I'm Informed") so what makes you think it's "very likely a lie"?

P.S. If it's already answered later, I'll find it.

[Almost50]

If t3 tells me to I will

Or GeorgeBailey

Or STD

are they all even voting redtea themselves?

If your claim is true, this is probably Dwlee signaling his team he is the real Traitor.

[Almost50]

also there's daytalk

What's that got to do with anything??

[Almost50]

Also, here's a BIG FAVOUR I ask of you all: I am not going to take down notes and stuff, so you should collectively try to remind me why I TR'd/SR'd someone. Help an old guy, will you all?

[Almost50]

And I even landed a PAGETOP with that one.

[Almost50]

I'm a town complex vigilante.

This is probably going to piss "someone" off, but..

I have reason to believe this is a true claim

[Almost50]

I'd expect protective or investigative as a fake claim.

If House flips red; you can bet the Scum team has TWO Goons.

(I SWEAR I'm not on drugs. I am just letting my wild imagination go wherever and following it)

[Almost50]

Vig fakeclaim is risky, as a real vig will just cc with a bullet.

You make a sensible argument. I can't deny this.

OK.. go to the Town bin and wait for me please.

[Almost50]

And REMEMBER WHY I gave you a TR, because I doubt I will tbh.

[Almost50]

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Townie to Townie.. the claim is very likely true. Don't tell anyone I said that though.

[Almost50]

Vig fakeclaim is risky, as a real vig will just cc with a bullet.

real vig cant kill a bulletproof traitor

It's most likely be 1-shot, unless it's true the scum team is almost powerless (thus their power is in their numbers)

[Almost50]

I think redtea's reaction to being wagoned is bad.

Second strike.

[Almost50]

As a matter of fact..

VOTE: Jacket

My money is on this flipping a Scum PR (

the

Scum PR??)

[Almost50]

I kinda want to give them a night to see if there are 2 kills.

If they're town, scum probably does the job for us.

They get nowhere near Elo with that claim.

I'm probably going to claim by the end of my catch up to put this all to rest.

[Almost50]

In fact, why not NOW:

I am a Town BP Neighbour. At first, I though being a Neighbour was to make me a Miller to a TA/PT Cop (as is the fad), but with that claim it makes more sense for me to be the Miller for the Complex Vig. I mean, without the Neighborhood I could just claim VT if redtea claims to have shot me. However, if I do get shot in this case; my Neighbour will out me as their Neighbour and thus a PR who should have been dead.

@Dwlee: happy now?? Now Scum won't try to shoot me on N1 (or any other night). THAT IS WHY I don't feel the need to out everything I know upon "someone's request".

[Almost50]

The scum team never has Goons in a 2 Mafia + Traitor scenario

I was thinking 3 Mafia AND a Traitor (that auto-loses if the other 3 are dead). In my mind it makes more sense that the Vig is not all omnipotent over the Scum team, so at least one Goon. Traitor is by definition a PR themselves so can't be shot by a Complex Vig either.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Jacket

Obvious scum here.

You get a Town Lean for this alone. Not a full TR though (at least not yet)

[Almost50]

Then if we believe cookie and redtea, that means redtea is also effectively a pseudo cop.

No, it doesn't.

Redtea can't shoot goons, either.

They're considered vanilla scum.

OK.. I caught my brain fart before anyone else talked about it. Complex Vig CAN shoot the Traitor.

[Almost50]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

I don't think so. That would be to little power for Scum, and with a BP Townie they could have failed to kill on one night too. But why am I acting like I know anything about game balancing??

[Almost50]

'mother pagetop?

[Almost50]

Add three to the Scum bin for his posts on page 16

P-edit: D.. did.. you just agree on a read with me??? And without communication or discussion??? I am shocked to the core.

[Almost50]

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Eghhhh
I kind of see where jacket is coming from with fua obv scum though

How so?

Fua's vote on george gut pinged me as really terrible.

I see.

VOTE: Fua

Doesn't change my read on three, but does promote fua to a full TR. THANSK for you help.

[Almost50]

So, obviously my theory about Dwlee being Traitor with T3, George & STD has hit a brick wall.

Current read list (as of page 17):

Almost50, replaced Wake88 (BP NEighbour)
cool cookie (Informed)
redtea (Complex Vig)


House
T3
fua


TheZenMan*
Save The Dragons
GeorgeBailey*
Dwlee99, replaced Osetr
HawaiianPizza


Three
Jacket


Note that names within the same category are NOT following a particular order (maybe the ones in the NULL are, because that's where I started from, so they are in the order the mod lisyed them on P0)

[Almost50]

Fua's posts at the bottom of page 17 make them obv!Town to me. I think I want to merge me top 2 tiers now. So SIC TRs (including myself) Five Nulls and 2 SRs.

[Almost50]

Because he agreed not to shoot if we mislim.

If there are 2 kills tonight after a mislim, he's outed.

Outed as what? A Vig is ALWAYS Town-aligned in Normals, so 2 kills confirm him as TOWN.

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

Haven't been giving this game the attention it deserves will try to tomorrow after coffee

And THERE's the "hopping off wagon" move. Not as incriminating (as it's probably been a RVS vote, but still not a good looking move).

Almost50, replaced Wake88 (BP NEighbour)
cool cookie (Informed)
redtea (Complex Vig)
House
T3
fua


TheZenMan*
GeorgeBailey*
Dwlee99, replaced Osetr
HawaiianPizza


Save The Dragons


Three
Jacket

[Almost50]

i like cool cookie and house for town

I like a cool cookie and a cup of red tea better. I can neither eat nor drink a house.

[Almost50]

I'll take a short break. BRB

[Almost50]

STD IS TOWN

Ya think? Enlighten me

[Almost50]

jesus christ why is that bolded

Now THAT is a Town post!

[Almost50]

because it was a random vote

Correct answer. *Sigh* Now I have nothing to FoS you. Back to Null you go.

[Almost50]

Almost50 replaces Wake88

Welcome aboard, monkeyman. FYI, you're expected to form accurate reads on all slots by the time you make your opening post. Either that or you will be shot out of the galaxy. Note that if we mislim.. you're Scum. If we lim Scum.. you bussed. If you weren't on the wagon.. you tried to protect a p. Basically anything you say or do (or don't) will get you SR'd by someone or another. GET USED TO IT!

P.S. Did anyone Scum read me already in the upcoming pages? I can't wait to see it.

[Almost50]

1) Why would the mod give info not only about the existence of a traitor, but the fact they're bulletproof? What town utility comes from outing the fact the traitor is bulletproof?

cookie could have left the bulletproof bit out of his claim and let mafia sweat hitting their traitor at night, or think they're traitor was being protected if they did shoot them.

Mentioning the bulletproof bit could have easily been a message from traitor!cookie to his team.

If I had a 1% uncertain part of me about you being Town, it's evaporated now.

Let me think about this though

[Almost50]

Almost50 replaces Wake88

[/b]

Where he at though

Some of us simians are into really odd habits, such as sleeping.

[Almost50]

Wake's interpretation of cookie's claim is damn too convincing I want to switch my vote to cookie already. (The only thing stopping me is pride tbh. I town binned cookie way too soon and I'd look like a little white monkey if that flipped scum!!)

WAIT! I do look like a little white monkey.

[Almost50]

MONKE

<3

[Almost50]

I'm trash this game don't sheep me

'nother post that sounds townie!! Hmmmmm...

[Almost50]

Anyway we got a couple of slots that aren't even really here so I want to hear more from them

*Clears throat* You want any special song in particular?

[Almost50]

cookie needs more votes.

I can't possibly be the only person seeing this.

You're not, but I am still considering it.

Also, Traitor is not a necessary lim for Town win. Normal guidelines state that for Traitor to be considered Normal they are endgamed if all other Mafia are dead, so I don't see the need to speed-lim them now. I mean, maybe we can find a member of the main scum team if we keep the day going long enough. If not, we do have cookie to fall back on if we get too close to deadline.

[Almost50]

Aww, isn't this just a picture perfect moment of peace & harmony?

Spoiler:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA[/youtube]

[Almost50]

VOTE: Almost50
A50 no post = ???

There it is! I knew it I knew it I knew it.

[Almost50]

why the fuck am i being lumped in with zen and wake/a50.

I dunno about zen, but you are "George of the jungle" and I am a "little white monkey" so we obviously are aligned together.

[Almost50]

Do you think I would deliberately antagonize the claimed vig as a scum PR?

I don't know you, so I can't predict your play style.

[Almost50]

Who are you neighbors with?

Why do you want to know?

[Almost50]

What do the asterisks next to George and Zen’s names mean?

They've been prodded once each. I copied the list on post 0 and was too lazy to edit out anything. I just added the claims next to names.

[Almost50]

Imo, readtea should shootsomeone n1 then tell us who he shot after deadline for n1 actions has passed. That way we can confirm his claim and also get rid of a potential scum.

Tell us how? Did you have thread open during the night wherever you played before?

[Almost50]

I'm familiar with a50. I know he typically comes in posting a bunch. I gave him a kick and he delivered

I didn't even see your vote before I posted. I applied to replace in last night just before I went to sleep. I cam in today and found my Role PM along with access to hood added. I posted once in the hood and then came in here to catch up. I didn't need to confirm (I dunno about your modding style, but usually when someone applies to replace into a game I'm modding I just send them the Role PM and announce them at once)

[Almost50]

Btw, is anyone else failing to connect to FACEBOOK? I even used a test site and couldn't complete the query

[Almost50]

VOTE: Cool Cookie

Best bet thus far. I could also do Three. I am left with George, Dwlee & HP as my nulls (in that order, if you will). The rest are "above null" currently

[Almost50]

@Almost50 would you like me to post my reads list? It

may

contain a thing I think you wouldn't want scum to know (Hint, hint) as well as a "meta" read, as unreliable as those are.

If you think scum could benefit from it then don't.

[Almost50]

The question is just whether the benefit to town would outweigh the benefit to scum. But if you really are bulletproof, you should be fine?

Use your best judgement then. I really am BP, yes.

[Almost50]

Neighbors are supposed to be random alignments but in practice there are ways to get in a mod's head and figure out what they are thinking wrt to balance. I normally think it's best to out hoods early

I prefer to let my Neighbour decide for themselves. This one is very likely Town though, because they said [redacted] in the hood.

[Almost50]

If A50 doesn't mind, I'll post my reads as soon as Dwlee answers, since I think scum already gathered the information that I have anyways.

I don't mind. I doubt you have "what I think you're implying you do", but whether or not you're correct I am probably not going to confirm or deny it.

[Almost50]

Time zones and what not but it was 5pm my time when he replaced in so

Dwlee, you sometimes amaze me for how you miss glaring facts in general. First off; you should know I don't strictly adhere to a specific time schedule. I could pop-up literally anytime, yet can go missing for 36 hours. I don't necessarily sleep at night and post by day (or vice versa). You've seen this happen over and over again both as a player and as a mod, so I an puzzled as to how you could miss that.

Second; and this is a cheat on my part because I read the following post of your already: I already told you I didn't need to confirm. I wasn't asked to. Mod here follows my style. If you are an active player and you request to replace in chances are you will jump right in as soon as you receive your Role PM.

Third, and -again- I don't know how you missed that: I do NOT hide my online status, so if I'm online my name should appear on the site's frontpage. If it's not there then I'm not on.

Fourth, you could've checked my activity in "user's posts" to verify if I was at all posting anywhere.

Fifth, I can't talk about it, but it's even easier for you than checking the user's posts search.

This is what makes me almost always not willing to trust you, because I can't tell if you're genuinely missing the obvious or just faking it. This is exactly why you're still in my Nulls when I have formed reads about almost everybody else.

[Almost50]

Why do I get in this argument so frequently

Because .. well. read my previous post.

[Almost50]

I see new posts but I see nothing that I want to respond to, and nothing that could potentially change my reads

[Almost50]

I think it's best I just do this now. I am a

Town Neighbor

. A50 is my neighbour and can confirm that for you.

I confirm Zen to be my actual Neighbor

[Almost50]

@Fua: I told you I as skeptical you knew what you thought you did

[Almost50]

Zen asked me earlier if he should claim and I said to wait. I considered the possibility T3 didn't deny it because he wanted to bait the NK (me being BP) or something. I do TR T3, so I didn't want to get in his way.

[Almost50]

Okay maybe t3 can move back into poe? How confident are you on zen!town a50?

Very. It has to do with things we talked about in the PT.

[Almost50]

Zen asked me earlier if he should claim and I said to wait. I considered the possibility T3 didn't deny it because he wanted to bait the NK (me being BP) or something. I do TR T3, so I didn't want to get in his way.

tfw no it’s not that

What was it then? Why didn't you say you were not my Neighbor?

[Almost50]

Please unvote

I'm not even voting you. But the way you're acting I very much doubt anyone actually voting you will unvote. You probably need to claim now, and it had better be a good one.

[Almost50]

Oh! I missed a bunch of posts!!

[Almost50]

let's just fuckin' mass claim at this point

/s

I'm all for it. I'll start: I am BP Neighbor. Your turn.

[Almost50]

@T3: I dunno if you're Town or Scum, but delaying your full claim any further is scummy as hell. It gives the impression you're faking and afraid to specify lest you be CC'd. IF you're Towm you're dead already, unless you can convince a protective to be on you, and I doubt anyone will be convinced by "I'm an investigative"

[Almost50]

I'm a 2-shot even night braindead organ donor jetsetting angry creditor with 3 wishes

Sounds genuine enough.

[Almost50]

PAGETOP!

[Almost50]

okay everyone DONT claim

I already did. How do I unclaim?? HELP!

[Almost50]

I doubt that we have 5 claimed PRs (I'm counting informed townie) on day 1 and all of them are town.

That'd have to be every role in the setup

and I don't think we hit that randomly.


I understand if people don't want to vote a claimed PR, though - some of these things should resolve mechanically from nightkills.

I don't think we should out more roles

, though.

[Almost50]

Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor Finder

So, you find someone who can communicate at one night and then wait to verify then as Neighbours on the second? A 2-step investigation on the same slot, that can still get a false positive on -say- a Mailman or a Friendly Neighbour?

I dunno if I personally would think of such a role, but I don't know if I want it to get eliminated either. I think Scum will have to deal with that soon enough if that's a Town role.

[Almost50]

On Odd Nights I can check if someone is able to communicate with someone else, then on Even Nights I can check to see if someone is a Neighbor.

This strongly implies that there is
1. a traitor

What does it have to do with a Traitor???

[Almost50]

I don't think Traitors communicate with scum unless there's some kind of recruitment mechanic in play.

There isn't. It's not Normal for Traitor to be able to get recruited.

[Almost50]

I mean, that's why they're BP because the Normal Guidelines state the Traitor would DIE if shot by his team.

[Almost50]

FTR, Zen wanted to vote George from earlier, and I agreed. However, we both wanted to see where the Cookie wagon goes. That conversation took place about 3 days ago (or 74-75 hours ago to be more precise), so it doesn't surprise me AT ALL that hammered, as I would have done the same if I got here earlier.

[Almost50]

Yes.

[Almost50]

I've been online since even before the thread was unlocked but I'm lurking (just so you all know)

[Almost50]

I dislike everything about this game at this time. Everyone's going on a different route and no one is giving enough info. TBH, the only person I fully trust right now is Zen.

@redtea: Don't say whom if you did, but did you shoot someone last night or not?

[Almost50]

So, Dwlee is confirmed Vanilla, baring a Roleblockm on you, a Rolestop on them, or a HK on either. Thanks for confirming.

P.S. I said VANILLA. I didn't say TOWN though. I personally I'm not that good at reading Dwlee anyway.

[Almost50]

OH, well.. I though redtea woul be smarter and actually try to shoot a SCUM PR rather than a VT claim. *Sigh*

Like, there were what? Five PR claims/hints? One VT claim, and a pool of exactly 3 players (from my own perspective) to shoot from. If they survive they're no "Main Scum PR" which is a step forward.

Shooting three was.. erm.. not the optimal choice (again, from my own perspective), because he claimed VT already, so he is a VT, a Goon or the Traitor, and none of the three would die to the shot.

My worry here is if three is Traitor he has given his team a big advantage by drawing the COMPLEX VIG shots unto himself for 2 nights. Scum can leave redtea alone until D3 at least (and if they have a Roleblocker it could be D4) and then eliminate him for lack of evidence he is a Vig at all.

Another thought would be three is actually a Mafia PR himself, and they DO have a RB. Same situation really, except -again- if redtea had decided to target someone else in which case he would be "clearing" (I don't see it that way, but it seems most of you do) a real Townie.

Now if I was redtea I'd probably have run some high-risk/high-reward gambit (one that I haven't really thought about well, because I'm not redtea), such as faking having shot X (not three) and depending on the strength of my reads I'd decide who X is. Like, if I suspected Fua I'd have faked the shot there (I didn't suspect Fua, and he's already flipped anyway). That way when time comes to mass claiming and IF Fua claimed PR I'd catch him in a lie.

But anyway, we need to deal with the situation we're in, and I doubt we can do much about anything.

Note that there's a none zero chance the Complex Vig is a purely -ve utility here that was meant to shoot TOWN POWER ROLES, as well as give a false positive on a BP Neighbour.

I have other theories that may include even weirder propositions, but I won't bore you with them.

I think the most informative play -according to available data- is to eliminate Cookie today to verify faer claim for starters, and verify the info they got from T3 is also true. The problem is that would leave T3 out in the open (assuming both he and Cookie are Town) and said info could be lost overnight.

Anyway, this is a filler post. Lots of talk and no real substance, but it should serve as an eye opener at some point.

[Almost50]

I should've just said I have nothing to day!!

[Almost50]

I mean, we can kill him today and have you out your info, perhaps.

[Almost50]

The thing is I don't see why you need to keep the info from the public at all. Like, you're a claimed PR.. you're outed. What's wrong with stating "I checked X and they can/cannot talk at night"?? What's the secrecy all about?

You were coy about your claim on D1. You took a long time to explicitly claim. And today you're not giving out info, so it looks to me that you're SCUM who's just playing for time. The problem with this theory is that Cookie has to be Scum with you to support your claim.

Fuck it:

VOTE: Cool Cookie

Disclaimer: Faer in the previous post

[Almost50]

The problem with this theory is that Cookie has to be Scum with you to support your claim.

Or, cookie could be duped town that shares a hood with scum!T3.

Another PT? I very much doubt it.

[Almost50]

Here's a theory I just shared with zen: IF Cookie is the Traitor, and three is a Goon, and assuming T3 is also Scum the trio are wrapping us up for 3 cycles and the game ends (6 Town deaths in a 9 v 4 setup). If they do it for 3 cycles (5 v 4 on D 3) we are definitely getting to a 2 v 1 E-Lo with an unknown deepwolf.

P-edit: I give up. Informed Mailman who decided to claim their info in public on D1??

[Almost50]

VOTE: T3

T3 claimed cookie "knows" he's Town. cookie said fae can't be sure of T3's alignment. I want this flipped today and I don't care about the claim.

ALSO: Let's say T3 checked Dwlee. Let's say he got "no private talk". WHY hold that off? Mow let's say he got "CAN talk privately" and we already have a claimed Neighborhood AND an outed Mailman. WHY hold the info still?

[Almost50]

It IS TMI. T3 had just slipped real hard. Let's review the facts:

TRAITOR IS ENDGAMED IF THE MAIN TEAM IS ELIMINATED
2 players are outed as Neighbors
1 is now also outed as Mailman

A "can communicate" result is an outright guilty. WHy not claim it?
A "can't communicate" is enough evidence the target is not MAIN SCUM, so why keep it undercover?

T3 is PLAYING FOR TIME. H;s TAKING SU ALL FOR A RIDE. And if you add this to how long it took him to claim yesterday you get: T3 is OUTED SCUM.

[Almost50]

Here's what I suspect is going on: Regardless of cookie's alignment, T3 claims to have checked Dwlee (I assume whoever he responds to first is the target). He sleeps on it and checks Dwlee on N2 and comes back with a GUILTY on D3 (Dwlee can communicate but is not a neighbor). By the time we realize we have been fooled we're already in E-Lo it's GAME OVER with 3 mis-eliminatiosn and 2 Nks (assuming a 9 v 4 distribution). Meamwhile, Redtea is preoccupied and the Scum PRs are safe for the 2 nights it takes them to achieve this.

If this is true, three is more likely truly claiming VANILLA, because if he is a Traitor his death prevents the Scum win on D3 (although they can still achieve it on N3). Whether he's VT or a Goon though is up in the air (but I would slightly lean Goon since he wanted to draw the Vig to himself)

In hindsight I should not have claimed my BP. That would have been risky because of the Complex Vig thing, but it would have been beneficial to draw the NK and take Scum by surprise.

Based on the above, I don't think Scum would ALSO have a RB. We don't have that much strength in our roles as Town collectively. So..

IF T3 IS NOT ELIMINATED TODAY I BEG FOR readtea TO SHOOT HIM TONIGHT

[Almost50]

Isn't a cookie lim more informative to town? T3 being scum implicates cookie, so limming him would give us more info. If he is scum we can assume T3 is scum too. If he really is informed townie we could revisit some stuff and also potentially saving an investigative PR role. Plus, apparently T3 will only give us the info if we kill cookie, so there is also that.

NO. A T3 red flip confirms Cookie as TOWN. T3 has just called faer that. cookie is also the one who said fae can't confirm T3's alignment.

[Almost50]

A50, who do you think redtea should target on a T3 red flip? Green flip?

Upon a red flip I think he should holster (or waste another shot on three. Same same).

IF T3 somehow flips green I am willing to be the target of redtea's shot. (That's me offering Scum a once-in-a-lifetime chance to kill a BP with a single shot)

Actually, let me think about it a little.

[Almost50]

Sorry still not used to all abbreviations. What's fae and faer?

Most likely the pronouns of cookie's main, if I have to guess.

Actually the pronouns faer opted to list on this account

[Almost50]

I TARGETED JACKET AND GOT NO RESULT

BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!

OK.. now show us the crumb of the target and the result you passed on to cookie.

[Almost50]

...you were being that secretive over not getting a result?

Mate, caught scum is caught! The more he talks the more ridiculous it becomes.

[Almost50]

@House: How do you feel about DotW? I think a redtea shot there is fine

[Almost50]

Man! I meant STD.. well.. the DRAGON in this game

[Almost50]

OK.. bit that's IF T3 flips green. If he flips red though redtea should either holster, waste another shot on three, or shoot STD anyway.

[Almost50]

please dont lim me

??? You're acting so weird if I didn't already want to eliminate you I would now. Since when do you plead for your life like this??

[Almost50]

@T3: Like, who do you suggest we lim today? Let's pretend that I have the will to listen to you.

[Almost50]

I don't think it's worth requesting a PT of my own, so I'll just vent it all out here:

Me thinks House is a Goon. Me thinks he thinks I'm their Traitor. STD is actually a Scum PR, and T3 is what he says he is, but is Scum aligned. Zen is the BP Traitor.

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

If I', wrong I'm wrong. If I'm right though... call me a monkey.

@House: If I'm wrong I ESPECIALLY apologize to you. I know I'm being "unfriendly" to you with this accusation, and I should probably stop trying to read you in furture games.

@Zen: I really did TR you hard before. I just had a different perspective to look at things the way T3 has claimed his role yesterday, and then his result today. I know you have voiced your suspicion of him in the PT, so -by play- you should still be a TR, but the mechanical solution necessitates that you are the Traitor. Also SORRY if I'm wrong

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

@T3: I don't know what to say, but your scum play is so much different than your Town play. Also..



OK.. watch me be disgraced by having only 0-1 Scum in my proposed solve. If that's the case.. it's just a game.. and I'm still a crazy old monkey.

[Almost50]

Yes, you are. A SCUM investigative, assigned to find your Traitor.

[Almost50]

@House: If I'm wrong I ESPECIALLY apologize to you. I know I'm being "unfriendly" to you with this accusation, and I should probably stop trying to read you in furture games.

You really should.

Aside from that, what do you think of the rest of my solve? Why did you volunteer to be shot instead of STD? Why prefer a second shot on three? (Which coincidentally is what zen suggested in the hood too, after having had been alright with a shot on STD)

[Almost50]

Me thinks House is a Goon. Me thinks he thinks I'm their Traitor. STD is actually a Scum PR, and T3 is what he says he is, but is Scum aligned. Zen is the BP Traitor.

You think there's 4 mafia in the game?

I suspect the reviewers have some weird inclination to refute every possible "tradition" in the game, so yes I do.

[Almost50]

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

Wtf.

I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.

Where's your head?!

VOTE: A50

More power?? Do you think this is a ROLE MADNESS?

[Almost50]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

So there are THREE Bulletproofs in the setup? because BOTH me and zen are 1-shot BP. (that's the part we decided he should leave out when he claimed)

[Almost50]

T3's role was designed for Scum to identify their Traitor in at least 2 steps, and the Mailman is their "Miller" (gives them a false +ve)

This is actually close to what I was thinking. Except it makes more sense for cool cookie to be the traitor, since mailman returns a positive to a traffic analyst but a negative to a neighbor finder.

Well.. I could lowkey see your point, with both BP neighbors designed to be -ve utilities for both sides. Scum get failed NKs and Town gets falls +ve (Via COMPLEX VIG though, NOT the TA/Neighbor Finder)

[Almost50]

Wait what? I never said I was okay with a second shot on three, I said the complete opposite.

And I said I was fine with std shot but directly after I wrote I would rather have T3 shot and elim someone else D2.

True that. I misread. You wanted to lim someone else today and shoot T3. Still a weird proposition given T3 is almost confirmed Scum either way.

But let me entertain the idea: Who do you want to lim in T3's stead?

[Almost50]

You don't see the problem with TWO players claiming identical roles AS TOWN?

As a designer, I find it absolutely plausible.

The thing is I only claimed BP (not 1-shot BP), and zen immediately claimed ONE-SHOT in the hood. I thought he wouldn't have if he was Scum, and even if he was the Traitor (hypothetically I was considering it, but in practice I really thought h was Town) I thought keeping him alive and talking to me in the hood was best because he probably can give me some pointers as to who the scums are.

[Almost50]

@STD: Your "I don't want to lim T3" was the final nail. I already started thinking of the situation when House volunteered to be shot instead of you, and again when he asserted redtea should shoot three again. It looked like a blatant attempt to deter the shot off you (and confirmed the team doesn't have a RB), but if you had voted T3 I probably would have thought it was too crazy to be true.

Wtf.

I don't want StD shot because he hasn't claimed, and if redtea says he's going to shoot there it could out even more power.

Where's your head?!

VOTE: A50

VOTE: house
scum whiteknighting

Scum distancing

[Almost50]

I would urge everybody to calm down and try to think things over from at least 2 different perspectives.

My proposed solve was originally mean to be a PM top the mod (I didn't think it was worth requesting a private personal thread, so was going to "vent it all out" for post-game bragging rights.

Then it hit me my solve -if correct- could actually end the game by tomorrow. We lim one scum today, shoot another by night and lim the third tomorrow. I rethought ot and it seemed plausible, so I decided I should post in the main thread instead.

[Almost50]

Just wanna say that me voting for A50 is not a reactionary OMGUS to him saying I'm traitor. If not for that breadcrumb about me being BP he left and then outing me I would instead sit here trying to convince A50 he is wrong.

Isn't calling you a Traitor already saying you're BP; given the "info" cookie gave us on D1?

[Almost50]

Jacket has already linked it to you, mate.

Also.. a football game is about to kick off, so I will probably take a dive for the next 2 hours (maybe I will try to check in during the half-time)

[Almost50]

I think everyone is town and scum may have not made it to the game.

[Almost50]

@redtea: Shoot STD because you're the NK tonight either way. Thanks

[Almost50]

If Zen was still townreading A50, I'd postulate that he was full bp and A50 was 1-shot in an attempt to WIFOM scum, but that's clearly not happening, here.

What full BP? Who gives FULL BP in a game like this?? What's the Complex Vig for then??

[Almost50]

They both claim 1-shot bp.

No we don't! We're not BOTH 1-shot BP. We're 1-shot BP EACH!

[Almost50]

both of them?

who wants to bet one of them's the BP traitor

WOW! Such a revelation! I'm truly impressed.

[Almost50]

Considering that revelation never came to you...

Let's take a look back:

1- Who outed the hood? I did.
2- Who claimed his BP in public? I did
3- Who accused the other of being the Traitor (after more info was available)? I DID

So.. if you're going to claim the Traitor is in the hood was the one and only conclusion I should've had right off the gate, you're still voting the wrong person.

But considering you're SCUM in my solve, I don't find you voting me strange at all. At least once I flip the Town will reconsider and "maybe" someone will decide to tackle the idea that I am correct, and IF your theory of an investigative is in the unclaimed slots is true then all the better.

The thing i find most odd about you is not only are you voting me, but you also claim to believe there might be some yet another unclaimed PR in addition to a Complex Vig (effectively half-Investigative) and a TA/Neighbor Finder (an Investigative).

So, tell me: is it a 3rd investigative you suspect there might exist, or a protective (that has no function because the VTs/Goons are immune to the Vig and we have 2 BP claims)?

[Almost50]

I think Almost50 was kidding, but if not the answer is that you keep the results secret so scum don't know who to NK - otherwise all your clears get killed.

Seriously? They kill the clears and not the slot that declares them as clears? That's a new one.

= Oh, shit! He's a Cop. Should we kill him?
- Nope. We wait to see who he checks and then we shoot that person

Makes perfect sense, except... HE DIDN'T EVEN GET A CLEAR! He got a NO RESULT!

[Almost50]

They either kill him or roleblock him. In this case he was roleblocked, since he got no result.

Again: Why stall on a NO RESULT? What's the point? Scum already know if they blocked him, so why not say it outright?

And even more: THERE IS No ROLEBLOCKER IN THIS SETUP. There can't be. There's a Vig that can't shoot half the players list (

at least

half of it). You don't further cripple them by adding a Roleblocker, a Jalkeeper or a Doctor. And

assuming

T3 is Town, that's also a seriously nerfed role that doesn't ever be more burdened by the existence of a Roleblocker or a Rolestopper. The mist you could do to really really piss them off id to have ONE SLOT untargetable to them (Ascetic or Commuter), and that's really pushing it still.

[Almost50]

hmm I like that you admitted he claimed it first. And the fact he claimed BP to you after knowing about the BP traitor makes me more wary it's a gambit from group-scum. seems more likely than Almost50 splurging about being the real traitor.

Town or Scum, you should at least try to be accurate. I didn't claim to "him". I claimed in the MAIN THREAD.

The reason I claimed is because people were all over the Complex Vig trying to yeet them on D1. I claimed to confirm their role likely exists and is most likely Town because -combined with the info YOU outed- I should be his "Miller"

[Almost50]

3. arguably more incentive for scum to claim bulletproof to avoid getting elimmed (coz just a traitor) than for a traitor to claim it as a signal.

And when exactly was I threatened in any way on D1?

[Almost50]

tbh if we elim Almost50 and he is the traitor, it's doubly useful because it makes it less likely redtea is scum.

redtea isn't bloody scum either way.

[Almost50]

did they claim bulletproof after the vig was revealed or before?

I claimed it AFTER. I mean people get pissed when I ask about things that has already been mentioned in the game, but the same people refuse to go back and read for themselves. (Not specifically STD. It's a general statement)

here's where I claimed:

i'm ambivalent about the claim. an outted traitor doesn't serve much purpose for mafia, so there isn't anything we particularly lose by giving redtea a night to prove the claim. gut is i don't buy it though

Townie to Townie.. the claim is very likely true. Don't tell anyone I said that though.

In fact, why not NOW:

I am a Town BP Neighbour. At first, I though being a Neighbour was to make me a Miller to a TA/PT Cop (as is the fad), but with that claim it makes more sense for me to be the Miller for the Complex Vig. I mean, without the Neighborhood I could just claim VT if redtea claims to have shot me. However, if I do get shot in this case; my Neighbour will out me as their Neighbour and thus a PR who should have been dead.

@Dwlee: happy now?? Now Scum won't try to shoot me on N1 (or any other night). THAT IS WHY I don't feel the need to out everything I know upon "someone's request".

People were pushing redtea and piling up on him. I said his claim was believable to me and some people didn't get the hint. I had to full claim to save redtea from being massacred on D1. Whether you like my play or not is up to you, but that's what happened and that's what I'd do every single time

[Almost50]

mods do try to make confusing setups

How true. Like, I dunno if Kyouko designed the game all by herself or if the reviewers put their touch, but I do know these two reviewers like to defy conventional/traditional presumptions. Like, they could give Scum a BP without there being a killing role on the Town's side. Or they can give Scum a ONE-SHOT Ninja STRONGMAN with the inclusion of a Roaming Doctor, a Bodygaurd, a Watcher, and a STRONGMAN FINDER on the Town's side.

[Almost50]

I'm not crumbing anything. I am saying don't try to outguess Isis and/or ChaosOmega

[Almost50]

Stupid Town is stupid. GG Scum. You sure deserved the win. Peace out.

[Almost50]

Oh, and ALWAYS REMEMBER to say "Please don't lim me" when you're being ran up. It does miracles in some ranks. *Smirk*