Mini Normal 2242 | Opossum Mafia | Game Over!

[redtea]

VOTE: t3
UNVOTE: t3

[redtea]

VOTE: three

[redtea]

We were unfashionably early ig . . .
. . . . . .

[redtea]

wow scummy
VOTE: House

[redtea]

i vibe with that

[redtea]

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

[redtea]

im gay

[redtea]

itt we psychoanalyze every joke on a 1-10 rating system

[redtea]

First.

2

[redtea]

i tried very hard to skirt that by not using "scum"
my apologies
But I do think it's hilarious that "the gay mafia" is an existing in-community joke.
(for the record I am gay. But I know I do not speak for us all)

[redtea]

osst

[redtea]

in sorry kyouko

[redtea]

i see i see
personally i think the gay mafia, however, is "swag"

[redtea]

So I think thats 11 of us out of 13 who've posted
I just dont want to get tangled up while scum lurk but idk myb thats a good enough number

[redtea]

oh no

[redtea]

its the ga
its the
its the gay agend-

[redtea]

okay real vote

VOTE: Osetr
this is who s dying today

[redtea]

So I think thats 11 of us out of 13 who've posted
I just dont want to get tangled up while scum lurk but idk myb thats a good enough number

ok whos lurking then

what am i your maid

[redtea]

thezenman and wake i think

[redtea]

lol osetr getting people to dislike him, classic

gtg

remember: hawaiian pizza, a cool cookie, and red tea.
one of us do not quite fit and it's obviously the red tea

u
homophonic

[redtea]

psndndksjdn

[redtea]

thezenman and wake i think

Wake is my boy.

Works a shit ton, so hopefully he's getting some well-deserved rest right now.

this is good to know

[redtea]

if you want my real thoughts then i unironically dont know whats scummy about me but i find it funny, if i get lynched its sending a message to not lynch shitposters for being shitposters
dont wanna die tho but i wont anyway, every day phase theres the guy whos sus at first then a guy whos sus afterwards and is the one thats lynched
so lets find a different vt to lynch

I didnt really understand the first part tbh

but for the second part, usually that second person is a mislim soooo

[redtea]

3 votes in, dude is already flailing.

Wow.

if you want to think so
i call it having fun

oh this dude is def scum

[redtea]

well im leaving the floor open to be contradicted with logic and facts

[redtea]

also good catch fua

[redtea]

cool,,,,,

[redtea]

>.>
<.<

[redtea]

interesting take but it sounds like trying out a new scum tactic ngl

[redtea]

#106 does for clarification

[redtea]

okay I don't know if that clarified. Anything. Let me know if that didn't make sense.
I'm gonna sleep and shake off the giddiness because even if I have ideas my communication skills seem to be clocking out

[redtea]

@osetr

Like fua pointed out, mafiascum doesn't permit using l*nch anymore.
The default replacement had been "eliminate" so far

[redtea]

some games Ive seen use "execute" though
okay now I'm leaving

[redtea]

@osetr

Like fua pointed out, mafiascum doesn't permit using l*nch anymore.
The default replacement had been "eliminate" so far

i dont care

uuuh

[redtea]

tbh no one was trying to play the game until like
15 minutes ago

[redtea]

also took me forever to find because its not in the global announcements anymore but Ostr here's the new rule

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=87190

[redtea]

@fua pretty sure the first was ironic bc of the jokes we were making+game wasnt really in session yet but yeah lets use the new language

[redtea]

we owe kyouko like
a cake

[redtea]

okay SLEEPING in fact everyone sleep

[redtea]

I'm going to claim. I'm an Informed Townie. I know there is a Bulletproof Mafia Traitor in the game. I think the quotes below are Redtea signalling to the rest of the mafia that they are said traitor, partly given it was a really weird out-on-a-limb connection to make in the context of the discussion to that point, and partly because there are very few reasons to make such an effort to hint that you are mafia-aligned, other than being the mafia traitor.

(Translator's Note: gay means mafia-aligned)

im gay

VOTE: redtea

I could be wrong, but there's nothing really lost by me claiming anyway as that's my only power.

kfjadsklfnsadfj NO
also there's daytalk

[redtea]

oh wait i'm dumb

[redtea]

i promise you the only game relevant posts I've made are the obvious ones

[redtea]

i can't fucking believe i'm daying d1 because i tried to make sense of a shitpost

[redtea]

alright well do you want me to claim
i'm not sure it'll help

[redtea]

you are (not) already dead

[redtea]

redress reaction feels real though.

did you actually mean redress or is this autocorrect at it again

[redtea]

maybe in case someone decides i'm town and unvotes me idk

[redtea]

Okay caught up didn't realize people did say I should claim
I'm a town complex vigilante. Explains the bulletproof mafia, but that's also why my claim might not be that helpful as the counterpart has already been revealed.

[redtea]

Okay well I really need to head to work, I don't have any strong reads right now otherwise I'd drop them, but I do have some posts I'll finish if I happen to be around later.

[redtea]

*around as in alive

cool cookie locktown

Even if redtea flips town.

^this
I doubt this read would change because of how I'll flip (as I claimed), but town has done weirder before so I want to reiterate it

[redtea]

I kinda want to give them a night to see if there are 2 kills.

If they're town, scum probably does the job for us.

They get nowhere near Elo with that claim.

scope of this discussion has expanded but its always good to remember mafia could nk to "disprove" a vig
though with the complex modifier, that may be unlikely

[redtea]

okay so if there are more mafia prs than just the bp traitor, I still have a chance to vig them
if not them im basically a risky cop?

[redtea]

or "vanilla cop" or whatever its called

[redtea]

or
you know what mean

[redtea]

I think house means, it's almost guaranteed there is a non-traitor mafia member who is a pr?

[redtea]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

[redtea]

actually I think you both are saying the same thing
I'm not actually back but I'm checking in, which has apparently been a mistake because I'm all over the place

I think redtea's reaction to being wagoned is bad.

well thats just cause you're scummy
is that a take ive posted yet?

[redtea]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

jeez rude, I'm still a member of town and that has value.

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

true. Does that point two 2 mafia prs then not counting the traitor, assuming the mod didn't have some odd idea then? And assuming I'm town ofc.

[redtea]

like, I'm very collaborative. Unless I'm dead-fucking-sure I'm right, I listen to what town suggests, and especially in this situation. If people don't recommend using it for now, that's fine. I think that's the way to go based on what info we have now too.

[redtea]

i'll post my queer flag collection asdkjfnladsknf would that clear me

[redtea]

true. Does that point two 2 mafia prs then not counting the traitor, assuming the mod didn't have some odd idea then? And assuming I'm town ofc.

The fact you're gated and the traitor is immune is what makes me think the scum team has one PR & one goon, if your claim is real.

Quasi-investigatives typically have false positives/negatives.

I think three made the point that my role is borderline negative-utility
Unless there's like no or few other town prs
I'm not rolefishing here btw, no one out themself to help my case

pedit sounds like a plan house

[redtea]

I feel like the two of you are more or less on the same page, even if you got there in a roundabout and crisscrossed way

[redtea]

Spoiler: posts I was going to make before I almost died

GeorgeBailey

Okay I'm gonna try to not spam the thread cause it looks like that already sort of happened and I'm normally spammy but something something game state here

This post feels slightly forced?

I know I'm about this kind of publicly self-conscious as both alignments

VOTE: Three

Am interested in why this choice at the time the vote was made

#207
I see where you're coming from but, especially the last quote felt like an attempt to shift focus to the actual game. A very "looks better in-context" kind of post.
which may or may not be ai considering tbh, but if it is it's town

I mean, some people just deserve to be policy'd if they're making the game unfun for other people. Maf or not.

Pedit: it's been difficult to get reads so far with the Osetr stuff. I think House's and Fua's pressure early on is +town since it helped move the game forward. That's about it.

I want to check later I'm not jumping on locktowning someone before it's earned here, but without knowing their meta I'd bet strongly that Fua is town
I'm going to wait on House for now because I think I became biased over the course of one day lol

and then

Spoiler: @jacket

T3's posts are awful.

bad take smh

HawaiianPizza is town.

Thought GeorgeBailey was town early but need to see more from him.

what're these about

[redtea]

i'll post my queer flag collection asdkjfnladsknf would that clear me

Queer townbloc sounds good to me.

aw yeah

[redtea]

this is ridiculous
if this isn't tvt i'll eat this delicious brownie
does scum go this hard over mechanics

[redtea]

or setup rather

[redtea]

this is ridiculous
if this isn't tvt i'll eat this delicious brownie
does scum go this hard over mechanics

People tend to write off shitfights like this as tvt
in practice they are actually slightly >rand t/s

I guess I should've said that it wasnt just the back and forth, but the vibes of it plus the fact it's all over the place
interesting tho

[redtea]

i think also it depends on the players

[redtea]

*really* terrible?
is testing someone's scumhunt theory on page 2 *really* terrible?
something to poke into maybe but I wouldn't call it terrible

[redtea]

Ooooooh
Would 1 goon, 1 pr, and 1 traitor pr be balanced

That's my guess.

It would effectively make your role borderline negative utility.

This is where I'm at.

If people genuinely believe that we have a Vig that can only kill minimum zero/maximum one scum that otherwise only kills town PRs, why exactly is this slot still breathing if some people don't even believe the claim?

Questioning why a slot isn't dead =/= I want the slot.

But I'm sure you know you're reaching here.

I was about to jump on on this, but isn't this more questioning the setup than pushing for me?

[redtea]

"if peoppe genuinely believe" is what struck me

[redtea]

in fact, that post i just quoted was made after three switched his vote from me to t3

[redtea]

fua, I don't think you thought this through

[redtea]

Yeah, cookie was kind of skeptical and jacket doesnt like me, but thats about it

[redtea]

VOTE: Three

Your insistence on killing off someone who claimed a PR comes off as weird to me. Maybe the mafia has two power roles and you’re afraid of getting shot at night.

This is a misrepresentation of the facts at best. Three wanted to kill me before I claimed, yes, but afterwards it was just vague doubt, which everyone was going through, and then he voted somewhere else.

Fua, do you really believe I'm the only player in this game who insisted we shoot redtea?

Following the claim? You’ve definitely been the most insistent on it.

And this is factually incorrect.

[redtea]

I mean dwlee isnt wrong, and the post lacks emotion

[redtea]

I dont think house is scum for sheeping fua btw, i was literally about to do exactly that (including a reply like his to your post about questioning =/pushing) because of where in the quote i was focused on

[redtea]

are you just here to say hi dwlee or have you caught up and stuff

[redtea]

hihi btw

[redtea]

true. Does that point two 2 mafia prs then not counting the traitor, assuming the mod didn't have some odd idea then? And assuming I'm town ofc.

The fact you're gated and the traitor is immune is what makes me think the scum team has one PR & one goon, if your claim is real.

Quasi-investigatives typically have false positives/negatives.

ah yeah, that reminds me, the traitor is NK immune + gated (no specifics given beyond that). forgot to say that as i didn't really think it mattered, but perhaps it would be helpful when the traitor was trying to fashion a fakeclaim to also gate themselves. [/quote]
Gated as in... the bulletproof is complex or..?

Okay caught up didn't realize people did say I should claim
I'm a town complex vigilante. Explains the bulletproof mafia, but that's also why my claim might not be that helpful as the counterpart has already been revealed.

This claim seems too complicated to come from scum?

see above. also, is redtea the kind of player who just rolls over and dies as scum? i suppose my starting point would be, it's exactly the sort of claim which might get them out of trouble, which makes me instinctively struggle to believe it.

I'm not, but I also don't think I'm seasoned enough to think of a fakeclaim like that without help from a partner.

[redtea]

dammit i forgot to preview
aaand half my post got eated

[redtea]

I remember part of it was me saying to cookie "wtf, 'i should be limmed if im basically vanilla', i said it before i still have value as town", and that if not for cookie's claim + info I wouldve voted fae for faes post about me

[redtea]

wait t3 so in #468 did you meant to quote #428 or no
and if not then what does #470 mean

[redtea]

actually I think you both are saying the same thing
I'm not actually back but I'm checking in, which has apparently been a mistake because I'm all over the place

I think redtea's reaction to being wagoned is bad.

well thats just cause you're scummy
is that a take ive posted yet?

Am I scummy because I think your reaction is bad?

yes
Change my mind

it's exactly the sort of claim which might get them out of trouble

That's a really short-term strategy. If redtea is fakeclaiming, no 2nd kill on a scum lim outs them, and vig is explicitly a town only role.

Not what I'd associate with a scum agenda.

Wait, how would I know who to go for in that situation?

[redtea]

Wait, how would I know who to go for in that situation?

Personally, I'd say use your best judgement and pray you hit red, because a green flip will require a solid explanation.

I'm sure others will likely disagree with me and want you leashed, but I don't because:

1) I hate being told what to do with my role, so I geddit
2) Probably not the best idea to let unsuspected scum influence your shot, or let them know who to avoid targeting if the target is town

then whats the part about how if there arent 2 kills after a scum lim, that will out me as fakeclaiming?

[redtea]

Wait, how would I know who to go for in that situation?

Personally, I'd say use your best judgement and pray you hit red, because a green flip will require a solid explanation.

I'm sure others will likely disagree with me and want you leashed, but I don't because:

1) I hate being told what to do with my role, so I geddit
2) Probably not the best idea to let unsuspected scum influence your shot, or let them know who to avoid targeting if the target is town

then whats the part about how if there arent 2 kills after a scum lim, that will out me as fakeclaiming?

The following Day, there should be 2 flips. One from scum and one from you.

If you're targeting the same player as scum, your reads are shite at best and you need to die.

If scum doesn't know who YOU are targeting, odds are low that they'll hit the same player.

Like, technically they can no-kill, but it's suboptimal play to leave threats against them alive.

but I'm complex and can't read minds...?
And why specifically after scum is limmed?

[redtea]

Also I looked at Dwlee's ISO and saw he was playing exactly to his scum meta and got really hyped up but then I remembered that when Dwlee replaces in his meta will usually give a false negative so now I have a to read him by traditional means
which is blegh

tbh i was feeling a teeny tiny bit guilty for recognizing the scum meta and not acting on it bc 1) i wanted to play with them longer and 2) i thought i would try giving people a chance first and 3) mostly 1).

good to know i dont have to anymore tho if thats the case
/inb4 this gets me scumread

[redtea]

if their meta could be applied to this game, i would

[redtea]

Also I looked at Dwlee's ISO and saw he was playing exactly to his scum meta and got really hyped up but then I remembered that when Dwlee replaces in his meta will usually give a false negative so now I have a to read him by traditional means
which is blegh

tbh i was feeling a teeny tiny bit guilty for recognizing the scum meta and not acting on it bc 1) i wanted to play with them longer and 2) i thought i would try giving people a chance first and 3) mostly 1).

good to know i dont have to anymore tho if thats the case
/inb4 this gets me scumread

I don't think we have ever played together where I'm scum?

no but i meta'd you in the most recent game we played and that ended up with me locktowning you

[redtea]

okay okay
House
I interpreted your original post as saying, "if scum is eliminated during the day, and there is only one kill during the following night, that means redtea was fakeclaiming."
What I'm asking is, how does that work? How would I, as a town complex vigilante, be able to prove myself. I have like no idea what you're talking about. I can be town and miss. Are you saying if I miss in that scenario, I should be limmed just in case or what?

[redtea]

this like isnt even that relevant but i dont want to end up in a weird situation later

[redtea]

@t3 pm me after the game and we can compare notes if you want

I'm going to go back and comb through this game later today, because even if not a lot has happened, I need to find some actual direction

[redtea]

@house OKAY oh my god I'm glad. I was like what galaxy brained technique is house advocating for here or am i just stupid

[redtea]

with the '=' sign you get the button, without it you get the black bar v.v

[redtea]

wait why am i voting

UNVOTE: dwlee99

[redtea]

turns out it was my half-serious vote
dont need it there anymore tho

[redtea]

yeah get your votes off of three already
i might get on the fua wagon if we really did catch scum tripping but I'll wait for them to come back round first

pedit speak of the devil

[redtea]

don't tell him that was actually a pretty terrible take on osetr.

As it isn't true, I won't tell him that.

I feel like voting for someone on Day 1 because we won’t be able to rely on them at the end of the game

is

really flimsy reasoning, to be honest. I definitely agree that he deserved to be limmed if he wasn’t replaced because I don’t tolerate that behavior on this site, but that post from Three feels like he’s trying to justify his vote a little bit too much.

I mean that's just what policy limming is.

My vote on Three is staying, sorry.

Do you have anything to say about your points against Three I refuted?

[redtea]

I kind of want to let Dwlee prove himself? Osetr’s posts aren’t alignment indicative in hindsight because 90% of his posts were just trolling.

I mean yeah no one's jumping on them

[redtea]

okay. I don't like fua's tone in recent posts, but I haven't had the chance to really sit down yet so I won't hop on the wagon for now.

[redtea]

Predicting the scum kill is a lot easier said than done.

sure, but a close-to-conf town is a safe bet

[redtea]

Predicting the scum kill is a lot easier said than done.

If this conversation didn't get brought up and there was no NK I'd guess cookie got shot

dangit

[redtea]

t3 at it again

[redtea]

okay. I don't like fua's tone in recent posts, but I haven't had the chance to really sit down yet so I won't hop on the wagon for now.

You never like my tone…

poor little meow meow

[redtea]

oh god why is everyone here at the same time

[redtea]

jacket you won't back up any of what you say though. Thus, nothing-burger

[redtea]

Although if you’re going to actually vote me out, you should at least let me claim before the hammer.

i-......
Wow this is scum.

atp fua was e-3 and gaining traction

[redtea]

So?

nothin

[redtea]

blank
zero
zilch

[redtea]

okay so after some proper reading, I understood wtf house and fua were going on about

Dwlee #615
I mean the "there is a mafia traitor" IS the signal to scum, and revealing the bulletproof part could be beneficial to reveal. It's like saying "hey, I'm here, don't worry about nk'ing me I'll be safe." Which I think is what fua is hinting at here: #623

also

ah yeah, that reminds me, the traitor is NK immune + gated (no specifics given beyond that). forgot to say that as i didn't really think it mattered, but perhaps it would be helpful when the traitor was trying to fashion a fakeclaim to also gate themselves.

It's just so strange to me that the mod would say that there is a restriction to the bulletproof ability, but not say what that restriction is. Why the alignment and role but not the modifier- though that a modifier exists is mentioned. Is that common?

[redtea]

So you think Cookie is a bulletproof traitor trying to signal to his team, and that redtea is one of the other two scum fakeclaiming to get the heat off of him since such a thing would align with his own role? I can’t imagine one being scum and not the other.

Curious how you got me fakeclaiming to "get the heat off of him" from that post. Like as an aside, maybe-tangential-idea, sure, but why is this your first and only conclusion in this post. Why not "cookie was trying to signal to his team he's the traitor and found a convenient way to do so by pinning redtea as the traitor because of an unfortunate post", which to me seems more obvious. And see:

Why would town hold off on posting reads after leading a wagon on what they felt was a solid chance at flipping red, knowing that it's probably their only chance to do so if scum flips?

cookie is clearly not inexperienced. He ought to know that, as he was basically seen as conf-town at that point, he was likely gonna be nk'd. I think that may be what he meant by "if I'm still alive tomorrow". But as House says- if he is aware of this, why wouldn't he share his reads now? It's not town behavior. The alternative is he was wary the wagon on me would do a 180 flip onto him, which is extremely self-conscious and also scummy, but I think that scenario's less likely.

I was kind of piecing together what House was probably seeing as I was typing, and I'm tired as hell, so sorry if it seems to just be reiterating the same things as his post(s).

[redtea]

okay. I don't like fua's tone in recent posts, but I haven't had the chance to really sit down yet so I won't hop on the wagon for now.

You never like my tone…

So when I was skimming + rereading, I really didn't like the tone of your truce proposal post, as it sounded so fake-cooperative to cover the inherent self-preservating aspect of it (and not in a towny way). In that way, however, it kind of wraps back around to it maybe just being the way you play. It's not unlike Farren? I want to say Farren typically sounds more genuine, but honestly I don't think I've played against him as town!me. Off the top of my head, I think he sometimes gets scumread for the same kind of tone + actions.
Man I just don't know, but that you're willing to lim cookie may just be a good sign.

[redtea]

so anyway. Surprisingly productive 40 minutes. I hope you all will join me.

VOTE: cookie

also weird that cookie was actually the one pushing for my lim after my claim, which fua didn't pick up on but DID misread Three's post as something similar. I don't know if there's anything to make of that but no one's pointed it out yet, either.

[redtea]

sorry if there's weird tenses/editing errors/wtv/straight up nonsense. Hopefully nothing that obfuscates the meaning of my posts. I haveta sleep

[redtea]

I'm going to be busy today but I'll be around either late tonight or tomorrow

[redtea]

also there's daytalk

What's that got to do with anything??

good question

[redtea]

i'm still catching up but
i suppose i have to do this....
UNVOTE: cookie

my read

could

change again by the time i finish up but i don't want anything crazy to potentially happen while i am doing so

[redtea]

also there's daytalk

What's that got to do with anything??

good question

Also this is tinfoil but I actually hate this post upon seeing it again cause I feel like it's parroting a post George made after seeing someone townread George for it.

god fucking dammit i knew this was gonna come up when i got to that part of the thread
i was hoping it would come off like a bit
was a dumb tr anyway tho

[redtea]

why

They seem to be assuming that fua knows that redtea is the traitor, when mafia is uninformed as to who the traitor is.

no, I think I was referring to the hypothetical, but reasonably likely world, where scum BELIEVES redtea is the traitor - in which event, I postulated it could be unlikely that scum would bend over backwards as much as fua did to save them.

considering it more or less worked, I can believe it

scum want me
fish fear me

[redtea]

zenman is town

what do you think of this

Do you think my vote on a50 there could have led even close to an elimination unless he lurked out for the next 3 days?

Not saying it could have led to an elim, I'm saying it's a very easy push to give yourself some towncred. And imo it was also the wrong push, since I was a better target for it.

[redtea]

almost50 #771

big brain hours

I checked those posts and saw someone else also said they were gay (Hawaiian Pizza iirc). Do you suspect both are mafia, or do you think HP (Hewlett-Packard??) was joking/meme'ing?

good fucking point. Why was I singled out??? Maybe HP is my buddy saying "I see you??" Anyone think of that? I've been slandered

[redtea]

zenman #778
I think Three means scum don't take big risks D1.

TBH, I am very suspicous about the redtea [redacted] wagon happening so fast and quick. Definetly wasn't a pure wagon and probably some scum bandwagoning there. If redtea really is vig then there are ways to confirm that (2 nks maybe). The only ones I'm seeing that could benefit of redtea dying at this point is probably scum.

time to play "are they town, pocketing me, or actually think i'm the traitor"

Also, here's a BIG FAVOUR I ask of you all: I am not going to take down notes and stuff, so you should collectively try to remind me why I TR'd/SR'd someone. Help an old guy, will you all?

A50 posting this much is probably town indicative.

Say it ain't so but I don't like this "hopping onto tr'ing the new guy" stuff when he wasn't even near done reading
Also it's not typically out of people's scumrange I think. Easy way to get tr'd when replacing-in. The continuous trains of thoughts is a point in A50's favor though.

House is town because we TvT'd earlier.

this is so weird

[redtea]

Spoiler: @fua

T3 is almost certainly clear. Why do you group redtea with cookie?

T3 is fun, T3 is not clear.

If you think A50 is town then T3 should be town too.

why cause you think they're neighbors

fua #988
i'm gonna be real with you fua: i don't think it's AI

I see what you mean about dwlee/three tho
also dwlee/t3 could be something
double-3

Spoiler: @cookie

I remember part of it was me saying to cookie "wtf, 'i should be limmed if im basically vanilla', i said it before i still have value as town", and that if not for cookie's claim + info I wouldve voted fae for faes post about me

can you explain what this means? why would you vote for me?

Basically: you pushing me after I claimed, saying my role was useless, and that it was really in the best interest of town to push a claimed pr lim based off of a joke, was scummy af. I think now, maybe, you're head was just. Somewhere weird in conspiracy land, idk.

does bulletproof traitor imply a vig? mechanically it doesn't (basing it on the wiki), but is that statistically true for normal games?

I also read the wiki recently so you have a point- but the bulletproof neighbor might imply it.

i'm suddenly ok elimming zenman tbh

kinda same but I need to sit on it

Spoiler: @jacket

If redtea's claim is true, I'd expect the mafia PR to be trying to get on their good side so as to not get shot by them.

this is. A good point actually. Both in your defense and as a scumhunting direction.

Don't really want to vote anyone outside the bottom group, TBH. I mostly think the attention on cool cookie is people trying to find a super smart theory of who's scum rather than looking at the people who aren't being town.

This is fair and blatantly town, outside of tin-foil-cookie-buddy land.

Another unexpected TR.

btw what's scum motive for wanting a hood outed

[redtea]

dwlee #761
*"there is a mafia traitor and it is me" is more what I meant.

I wish Koba was here cause they could tell me if I should step back from this push

i'm not too familiar with koba but i'm here to tell you:
stop tunneling
get it together

[redtea]

inb4 "hiding things in a spoiler is scummy" s2g

[redtea]

If they are then almost50 is already pocketed it's too late

[redtea]

also there's daytalk

What's that got to do with anything??

good question

Also this is tinfoil but I actually hate this post upon seeing it again cause I feel like it's parroting a post George made after seeing someone townread George for it.

god fucking dammit i knew this was gonna come up when i got to that part of the thread
i was hoping it would come off like a bit
was a dumb tr anyway tho

Did you not see George's post before making that one?

i honest to god dont remember

[redtea]

@redtea and @cookie:

If you had to pick someone else to vote besides each other, who would it be?

yeah i guess i have to get something together huh
i don't wanna vote cookie anymore

[redtea]

I wouldn't say I'm emotionally invested, I'm just annoyed that I think I've defended myself well but it seems to keep getting ignored. A lot of naked votes keep coming my way, so I'm not exactly sure what I can do here, because if I argue against those naked votes it's just going to look like shade/OMGUS even though they're pretty objectively bad votes.

no need to fear, redtea is here >wo

[redtea]

i wouldn't be surprised if the "treaty" between three and fua is w/w honestly.
they'd be towards the bottom of my list, so maybe i'm biased but... that whole thing seemed off to me. especially from three's side.

there's a neighbour claim?

i think fua's the suspicious half tbh
weren't they the one to propose it? Could've wanted to look better when hopping on a mislim in the future/thought it a good opportunity to snag a tr/neutral from three. Or hell, to look good while their partner pushes three instead.
Which, in a t3/fua world, puts #417 in perspective.

[redtea]

What is clearing if not making random justifications in the hopes that you come off as looking like you’re getting something done?

You can't just replace the meaning of an established term like that
Stop it

I would offer to just get shot by redtea to prove I'm VT, but I understand it could just mean I'm the BP Traitor, and even though I think redtea is telling the truth I understand that not everyone believes them either.

In that case it'd take two nights to clear you of being a pr, but honestly I don't think that's a bad idea. I don't know what we'd be doing with my ability anyway.

[redtea]

wait i don't think i tr Almost50

VOTE: almost50

dragons what are you doing

I like it because of the way the ate is executed I hate it because the ate was uncalled for.

was it really though
are we reading the same game

[redtea]

So just one scumread and the other are all null/town? No one sees anything suspicious about this?

No

Did people read the post I made below about George? Feels like people are sleeping on how scummy he really has been this whole game.



https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13038212

he just needed time i think

[redtea]

I think I know where I wanna go, but I'll have to do some isoing

[redtea]

I pretty heavy tr jacket rn but I'd like to hear about that

[redtea]

you think scum glosses over it instead of addressing it, especially when it's you saying it?

[redtea]

i mean scum will ignore me all day but idk about you

pedit in that case, wouldn't you think he'd face it head-on directly to the forehead?

[redtea]

I'm having a hard time finding how to piece this together in a way that makes sense to other people but I think [t3, dwlee, fua] is a solid poe
maybe through dragons if there if one Really wants

[redtea]

okay okay
i guess see what you mean. I could see what you mention in #1141 being overconfident/playing fast-and-loose scum or smth, meaning either he doesn't care enough to actually iso you real quick or thinks maybe he can try to get away with glossing over it.

I think #1052 is just Jacket being purely himself imo

[redtea]

man. I don't know about the fact that t3 stayed so long on fua. But it's also weird that t3 has mentioned and talked to fua way more than fua has mentioned/talked to t3, which reminds me of how hesitant i was last scum game (and maybe before then too) about talking with my scumbuddies, especially n the beginning of the game. Some other things about fua were reminding me about my own scumplay too, the other day.

Looking over vcs, dwlee seems like a better partner candidate for either of them than they do for each other, buuuut.

Okay I'm going to pick one and see where it goes.

VOTE: fua

I still really don't like how you didn't explain why you kept voting three, just that your vote wasn't moving. You make me even more paranoid than t3 and dwlee do, and if I don't at least try to vote you out and you end up being scum I'll kick myself.

[redtea]

Everyone please consider voting with me. Tbh the current candidates, according to the last vc, kind of suck ass

[redtea]

0
you?

[redtea]

I think deadline flashwagons are bad. At this point I'll move for the sake of consolidating.

I mean me too, but the deadline kinda snuck up on me and I don't like any of the current options

[redtea]

You know, the only reason I had any hesitation on T3 at all was because I thought you might be masons with him, seeing how aggressively you attacked me for calling him scum, made it seem like you had a super strong townread you never actually verbalized. But I guess that's off the table now.

How do you want me to respond to that vote from T3? He had jack shit for a case, no one listens to him because his posts are white noise, and I don't care what he thinks. I probably gave him more of a response than was warranted.

Unless it was a LONG time ago I'm not seeing an "aggressive push" from House in his iso.

You have a good point that t3 admittedly didn't even have a case, and was just sort of finding something to do. I don't think that really warrants much of a response @House.

[redtea]

I think people are too intimidated by three's emotional appeals. I don't think it overrides the body of work. But maybe I just don't get his style. It happens.

I'm really not, I just don't think there's a good reason to vote him. I'd vote everyone else in my null list except maybe hp before i voted three.

[redtea]

@three do you think you'll stick with that t3 vote til the end? I'll join you if you really won't vote fua with me.

[redtea]

I'm having a hard time finding how to piece this together in a way that makes sense to other people but I think [t3, dwlee, fua] is a solid poe
maybe through dragons if there if one Really wants

oh god how did this post get so messed up
*maybe even include dragons if one Really wants but I don't want to endorse voting there today

[redtea]

read the rest sweetie

[redtea]

taking things out of context aint it

[redtea]

I don't think that really warrants much of a response @House.

I didn't give him much of one, either. But I did give him one.

this game is driving me insane

[redtea]

i l i t e r a l l y ctrl-f'd and then reviewed the posts with no quotes to check the context/who they were directed at if anyone

[redtea]

which reminds me of how hesitant i was last scum game (and maybe before then too) about talking with my scumbuddies,

especially n the beginning of the game

just because you have been posting more about him recently doesn't mean that, overall, there is much posting of him in your iso, despite the amount he has talked to and about you.

[redtea]

not to mention your locktown of t3 makes no damn sense. T3 is not "cleared". You barely mentioned him before saying he was locktown w/Almost50. That's the only info that seems to inform your tr of him, which is ridiculous.

[redtea]

So I don't know if you're partners, one of you is the traitor, or what, but I'd really like to see you go today.

[redtea]

@three do you think you'll stick with that t3 vote til the end? I'll join you if you really won't vote fua with me.

I don't think Fua is a good vote today. I think today's flip will be help figure out their alignment, they've interacted with a lot of people and the post-flip associations will be telling. If signs point to Fua being scum Day 2 and I'm still around, then I'd be willing to follow you on that vote.

Besides Fua, do you think there's a better elimination than T3? Because I'm not completely set on my vote.

nooooo

[redtea]

.

i'm not saying zenman's posts are towny but voting a was-a-lurker d1 is not helpful.

One reason my poe is superior is because any of them would be extremely informative fliips.

[redtea]

ah i fucked up the quote
the link is righ tho

[redtea]

I don't really understand Fua's town read on T3 but I'm assuming it's meta that I don't know about. Being Neighbors with A50 doesn't even mean either are conftown unless there were Night 0 Loyal Neighborizer shenanigans, which I seriously doubt happened.

Fua's join date is September 24, 2021.
Did they say they've played together on another site?

[redtea]

this is their first game here even unless it's an alt

[redtea]

well that part is all just why i think you two might be buddies, im not 100%. Reminded me of another situation.
Your behavior, in general, seems very much like the spearheading scum partner. Oh wow there we go I found the words finally

[redtea]

alright well
VOTE: t3
praying three doesnt change his vote

[redtea]

it could also be because youve stated you tr your neighbor, so if people think that thats t3 then all the better for him
tbh i think if he were town he wouldve just said it wasnt him. Like, specifically, t3 would do that.

[redtea]

ill actually sheep A50's read on his neighbor, since i low-nulled but didnt quite sr or even sl him. If you two've been talking a good bit Md you feel confident in your read, that makes me feel better about possibly no-limming if zen's our only option eod. Though I'd really like to lim *someone*

[redtea]

*a good bit and

[redtea]

[redtea]

dwlee town???

[redtea]

that should be e-3

[redtea]

are you isoing, dwlee?
you gonna hop on the train?

[redtea]

my gut believes t3.

UNVOTE:

Like someone said he might die tonight anyway. Or not idk.

Mass claim time tho fr

[redtea]

VERY cute opossom

[redtea]

well sure if you don't claim we won't

[redtea]

zen or jacket
t3 my man come on

wait actually yeah
ig if we're probably no limming we should wait to massclaim til tomorrow

[redtea]

okay everyone DONT claim

[redtea]

I doubt that we have 5 claimed PRs (I'm counting informed townie) on day 1 and all of them are town. That'd have to be every role in the setup and I don't think we hit that randomly.


I understand if people don't want to vote a claimed PR, though - some of these things should resolve mechanically from nightkills. I don't think we should out more roles, though.

i'd count a neighbor as like, 1/2 a power role personally but I don't know if that's how games tend to be balanced at all
why not mass claim tomorrow though? Knowing claims will help make sense of visible night actions/night flips.

Who says we're not eliminating?

why should we

[redtea]

@T3: I dunno if you're Town or Scum, but delaying your full claim any further is scummy as hell. It gives the impression you're faking and afraid to specify lest you be CC'd. IF you're Towm you're dead already, unless you can convince a protective to be on you, and I doubt anyone will be convinced by "I'm an investigative"

Odd Night Traffic Analyst Even Night Neighbor Finder

On Odd Nights I can check if someone is able to communicate with someone else, then on Even Nights I can check to see if someone is a Neighbor.

This strongly implies that there is
1. a traitor
2. a neighbor
That's why I was very quick to believe cookie and A50's claims, + the fact that the tells exist.

That...is a very odd role. Why does town need to find Neighbors? Either way I don't see how this tips scum off. Also why does it imply there's a Traitor? I don't think Traitors communicate with scum unless there's some kind of recruitment mechanic in play. So they shouldn't have day or night talk unless they're a Neighbor, though A50 strongly believes Zen is town and A50 himself is a consensus town read.

Assuming the strategy here is to scum hunt odd nights and confirm Neighbors even nights, you'll most likely be blocked tonight and we'll be essentially powerless. There would be too many town PRs if others existed otherwise, unless we have some fake claims.

Should we organize what everyone is doing? I'd be fine with redtea shooting me two nights in a row to confirm I'm not the Bulletproof Traitor. T3 could also target me to confirm I don't have night talk. We could argue just this means scum shoots me to "waste" their night actions but uhhhh if scum want to kill a scum read VT they're more than free to do so. And if a role block happens, well we won't be in any worse of a situation.

it tips scum off since we know who the neighbors are, so if t3 checks anyone else and they have nighttalk they're scum. It means we basically have a full-fledged cop now. Though if one of zen/a50 IS scum it's not as useful an ability, but I'm trusting those two rn.

I think the fact there's a neighbor-finder ability too means that there's another way for t3 to gain a false negative (when checking the traitor), that's what implies the role.

[redtea]

wait

[redtea]

okay, without the neighbor-finder ability, there exists two false positives (the neighbors) and one false negative (the traitor) that can't be cleared using the abilities we know exist (or killing them). So balance-wise that makes sense. It's not like investigative roles live long either.

If there's a traffic analyst role, it would make sense for there to be a scum-sided role that can fly under its radar. That's what implies the traitor.

[redtea]

*or without killing them

[redtea]

Get off T3. He's nk bait.

Protective should be on him.

If there's no nk, he's town and scum was stopped.

If there's a different nk, his alignment may be in doubt, but hopefully we'll gain results.

No cc should happen, if any exists, until d2.

sounds like a plan
and ill target you @Three unless someone has a better idea

[redtea]

I doubt that we have 5 claimed PRs (I'm counting informed townie) on day 1 and all of them are town. That'd have to be every role in the setup and I don't think we hit that randomly.


I understand if people don't want to vote a claimed PR, though - some of these things should resolve mechanically from nightkills. I don't think we should out more roles, though.

i'd count a neighbor as like, 1/2 a power role personally but I don't know if that's how games tend to be balanced at all
why not mass claim tomorrow though? Knowing claims will help make sense of visible night actions/night flips.

Who says we're not eliminating?

why should we

Not eliminating is wasting a chance to kill scum, unless you're confident you can take a shot or something. Otherwise we end up in the exact same place tomorrow minus one person.

Even if you think we're making a likely mis-lim, if there is a chance someone could be scum it's better to vote them if they aren't going to be cleared in future days. We only get a limited number of chances to kill scum in the game. Passing up even one is bad.


I think in general people are too obsessed with the idea of perfection and never getting it wrong, ever, that it leads to states like the one we have now where everyone's scared of wagoning someone. It's okay to be wrong on Day 1 if it removes someone who was a suspect. That's part of the game. Even an incorrect elimination lets you analyze how people approached and handled that player.

look, i'll usually take almost any option for no-limming, and i wanna no-lim
if we mislim we have 2 fewer tomorrow and i really don't think we're gonna hit scum. I also dont wanna hit a protector role on accident, which will make many of us hopelessly vulnerable tonight esp t3

[redtea]

For the record I think T3's role makes sense for scum. Especially if the neighbors are supposed to be valuable for town. But leaving him alive for a night is fine.

how tho

[redtea]

*any option over no-limming
god damn so many typos im making this game

[redtea]

i don't think wagon votes would be all that informative atp, unless someone started sr'ing someone else hard

alright ill flashwagon dwlee or fua no one else
VOTE: fua

[redtea]

We really gonna end up in a mass claim at this point

no dont

i don't think wagon votes would be all that informative atp, unless someone started sr'ing someone else hard

alright ill flashwagon dwlee or fua no one else
VOTE: fua

Why those two?

Or are cases in your ISO?

i dont really have a "case" for dwlee tbh, but i kinda do for fua
nyway they were in my d1 poe along with t3, who is no longer in it

ill speed meta george ig

[redtea]

okay so so far, lurking seems to mean nothing when it comes to george bailey

scum game he has 17 posts over 119 pages
town game he has 24 posts over 208 pages
another scum game he has 29 posts over 94 pages

[redtea]

damn george you mod every game on this site
wish you could sort these

[redtea]

oh wait a fucking second i didn't take being killed off into accoutn
goddamit

[redtea]

actually kill me

okay so scum games
29 posts/43 pages ~= .67 posts/page
17 posts/76 pages ~= .22 posts/page
town games
22 posts/62 pages ~= .35 posts/page
24 posts/19 pages ~= 1.26 posts/page

he has a quantity of posts in the upper range in some of his quick micros for some reason, and doesn't seem to be ai, so i left those out as outliers. also didn't include newbies or replace-outs.

anyway yes still lurking don't mean anything. Gun to head I think george might be more laid-back as town (i did include those quick micros in my skimming), like he is here, so. Yeah count me out. That's not even a good info lim

[redtea]

oh fuck me that wasn't a hammer was it

[redtea]

maybe mod wont count yours

[redtea]

unvote jic, pretty please with a cherry on top?

[redtea]

you've been referring to someone as bogdan but idr so i guessed it was gb

[redtea]

Georgie would be an excellent investigative target.

I don't know why he bothers signing up if he isn't even going to play.

he plays very very slowly

that's not a bad idea i forget did you already have a target in mind t3

[redtea]

maybe there's better options actually
dwlee would be good

[redtea]

ooooo oh shit

like i said it was just t3/dwlee/fua, now it's dwlee/fua, because that's all who i can get much of a read on without more info. Me and t3 mentioned this earlier but while dwlee's replace-in play resembles his scumplay and therefore maybe can't be relied on, I'm still paranoid. Which makes THAT a good slot to check out, actually.

Fua I've gone into before.

[redtea]

*which is why that makes them a good slot to check out
didn't mean to sound like i'm repeating myself

[redtea]

*their scumplay

okay i'm going to bed vote for fua 2021

[redtea]

fua what the fuck. Vanilla townie. Are you fr.

surprised it was fua over like, house

[redtea]

same a50

uh well I did but I didn't really keep who I was targeting a secret

[redtea]

i did shoot three
i think we were saying itd be a good idea if t3 targeted dwlee

so anyway, yeah either three is 1-shot bp, the traitor, or vanilla. if i shoot him again tonight that narrows it down to the last two, which would prevent him from going back on his vt claim.

this role kinda sucks ngl