Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Gammagooey]

helloooo pink team

so yeah I finished reading earlier today - I replaced in sunday, read all of event 1/2 with reads of Prism & Dwlee look town and skitter looked slightly scummy, then pointed out that that 'oh shit there are 3 days til deadline GET PASSIONATE MY FRIENDS', then everyone showed up between me going to sleep on sunday and noonish monday to nom Infinity with Gamma Emerald vehemently objecting.

current reads are like
probtown: dwlee, Gypxyx, Ulyana
slightly town to varying degrees: Taly, Cakez, peta, Gemerald
scummish: Infinity, Toog, Saber, Ydrasse
fight me scummo: Skitter

maybe don't put too much faith into the middle chunks yet but that's where I'm at for now

Infinity has been a literal wet napkin all game

The FUCK???

I agree more with cakez than you here Gamma

SKITTER can you give me like a timeline/summary of who you were suspecting and how strongly through events 1-3? (also I might just call them days 1 and 2 later because that feels correct to me)

also there is zero chance I can keep up with this hyperposting
I'm gonna try to finish up a bit of work for an hour and change and I'll be back in like 2 hours or so

[Gammagooey]

Yeah that's the vibe i got

Like 2 scum van just be aligned on wanting one person + any given townie would have made the 'nomming' wagon and that just didn't happen

And the lines that split the pt were just really weird and complex and idk didn't really feel like people were working together

There's prob like 1 tho cuz i dont think all scum were with u guys either

Also i do think there's something weird going on in taly/dwlee

Pedit @ydra

Why would scum need to? Scum working together or seeming like they're working together in the PT seems actively bad and if there are two scum in Pink that means they only have to not nom a single person in blue team. and if all 3 scum were in pink obv they don't have to give a shit about the nom at all.

@peta - you went over some Dunn+Taly thoughts in the PT, I'm interested in your prior thoughts on Taly pre-Dunn flip - was there anything in particular you had in mind in regards to Taly before the flip or was your read on him not particularly deep (something like "has good posts seems fine for now")

[Gammagooey]

oh, I'm getting BoP'd on my few scum games. Love it.

no whining allowed this is for reading peta and you can't even die today unless woowoo sabotage shenanigans

[Gammagooey]

I'm very likely voting for infinity to die over peta

I do want to bug skitter and infinity some before that tho so if ya'll can hold off on starting the vote until I have time to post in a couple hours and they can respond I'd appreciate it. Also Saber should post like at least once before we start it? Several people going "Saber was scummy and dropped out of the PT convo" followed by silence followed by "Saber is being replaced" during the voting or the next event would be a dumb thing to happen

[Gammagooey]

Yea that's silly

Vote who you think is more likely to be scum

agree

You're worried about scum manipulation so you want us to let scum pick who dies. Homie

I’m near certain this is basically scum’s wet dream for how this event is going. My idea was to force scum to tip their hand. I feel like their choice would help confirm or deny certain theories about what’s going on. It’s not like the scum would be able to rock the vote unless they were all in the blue room basically.

my dude

I know you've got a strong town read on infinity from what you said in the blue PT and you're concerned about scum doing and/or getting away with some bullshit b/c you got ignored and it was a quick wagon, but choosing to let scum get the kill choice instead of even taking a stab at eliminating scum today is pretty obviously a bad move. If you think both are town then honestly just chill for a couple days and point out shit when you feel like it, mafia doesn't have to be high intensity and the game doesn't particularly need a BIG MOVE to figure shit out at the moment imo.

@Infinity - I think what I'd like to hear from you is just your broad thoughts on the game up to now and especially what you think you see in your strong scum reads that you think other people might be overlooking or be incorrect about their thinking/posts.
I also wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Ydrasse+Taly since you have them as town reads & I don't have a strong read on them yet.

[Gammagooey]

i guess what i mostly don't understand is why people townread gypyx and saber, yes they've had decent surface-level townposts but that's just not enough at this stage of the game. i can try to explain a bit better the townreads that lead me there; one read that i feel like i haven't elaborated on enough is my cakez read, i though he was really towny at the end of the last phase but i'll find quotes

For Gypyx I personally townread Prism and then his posting in the Blue PT was also good (for anyone who's interested in he went over some thoughts on whether Dunn/Toog would have done the duel differently if they were scum together & talked over his thoughts on Dwlee w/ petapan & unwnd early on).

I do think that most of the game could arguably be placed as surface-level town or better for various parts of their posting so far (except like Toog), but for scum reads in particular I'd be a lot more interested in any particular posts you think are more likely to come from scum than town if you have any rather than *everyone else is townier than them*

[Gammagooey]

Gypyx is welcome to add context/more info, quick rephrase fmpov: Dunn/Toog interactions during the duel were awkward but prob not scum theater, b/c Dunn putting in effort to do the whole *I have thought through everything and here is my detailed explanation for all the possibilities* would have been followed by more than Toog spinning the barrel if they were both scum together.

[Gammagooey]

ulyana
Ydrasse
SirCakez
Infinity 324
Toogeloo
Dunnstral

Here's a list of people I'd be cool shooting each other today. I vaguely remember townreading the other people the last time I was actually thinking about the game, but I don't feel super confident in this poe.

VOTE: Dunnstral
I think we should do this

Can we put infinity and Dunnstral in the shootout please?

Stop this shit fight and flip infinity/dunn please. Cakez is town for agreeing with me on both of these reads

I'm gonna try a pooky trick: this day phase should end by page 130, preferably with Dunn and infinity being the ones shooting each other. If you disagree, stop doing so

not sure what you're point is, i've been calling you town for quite a long while

you voted Dwlee during the setup for the Russian roulette duel at one point? Tbf reading through 130+ pages in 4 days does not give me a good impression of how extensive "a long while" is time-wise tho

SKITTER can you give me like a timeline/summary of who you were suspecting and how strongly through events 1-3? (also I might just call them days 1 and 2 later because that feels correct to me)

I still want this when you have time btw. I don't really understand your read progression on either of peta or infinity at the moment and going through some of your thoughts about them (and any other strong reads) from previous days would help me out a lot with that

[Gammagooey]

sheesh

Harley I know you've got an ungodly amount of reading in front of you and I don't/won't begrudge you for skipping around, but "two dueling scum is unlikely" is some of the laziest analysis I've heard in a while

Maybe start 10/15 pages back from the duel participants getting chosen and read from there? Or start with the blue PT where Infinity was chosen as an execution nominee for this event and see if you get any reads from that?

[Gammagooey]

sheesh

Harley I know you've got an ungodly amount of reading in front of you and I don't/won't begrudge you for skipping around, but "two dueling scum is unlikely" is some of the laziest analysis I've heard in a while

Maybe start 10/15 pages back from the duel participants getting chosen and read from there? Or start with the blue PT where Infinity was chosen as an execution nominee for this event and see if you get any reads from that?

Well, in general, when you have two wagons and one flips scum, the cw tends to be town. I’ve seen very few games with two competing scum wagons.

it's uncommon, but of course it's uncommon - there are a lot more town than scum in the game. And it still happens ocassionally- hell, the 2nd link here has the main wagon on scum and BOTH counterwagons on scum in a 1-scumteam large theme: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11937201 , https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p6617334

It's not even necessarily wrong, it's just a lazy assumption that you shouldn't build off of unless/until you have context or other reasons that make those wagons unlikely to be SvS.

Gammagooey's town.

There. I contributed a read to this game today. Bye.

slot's been hard town for a while

let taly have this ok

[Gammagooey]

i have been SUMMONED?

[Gammagooey]

1)

What is hard to read about

Ydrasse/Me

?

2)

How do you view the Pink Team dynamics?

3)

Any questions you have for me?

Ydrasse I had a slight scum read on from early reading of the thread + blue PT. I don't recall any strong pushes she's made for people to die/events to happen in a certain way except for the unwnd/Ydrasse fight, which I wrote off as probably not alignment-indicative b/c some people on-site that use legitimate anger/frustration to their advantage regardless of their alignment (kuribo, LLD). It's not a super strong read and I think there's a fair chance she's town, but she'd def. be one of the people I'd read over and consider if I were handed an execution throne like the first event (though there is a fairly large gap between my more minor scum reads and skitter atm).

You have posted much words that generally seem pro-town, but I think you're a good player and I haven't seen anything in particular that's been SHOCKINGLY town, just a lot of good but theoretically fakeable-by-scum posts. Also I think I mentioned this in blue PT, but it's pretty hard for me to keep track of a lot of people's suspicions this game - some of it has been 'AAH WHAT THIS THRONE DO' and other worries like that from other people, for you it's just hard to remember your thoughts on particular players when they get crowded out by your questions/prodding at people that don't have explicit mentions of what you think people's alignments are. (tbf, this is more my issue in that I should prob re-read some more of the game and your posting after this event than something you should worry about)

Pink team sounds like a clusterfuck

I've forgotten your exact reads on peta/infinity so I wouldn't mind a refresher on that. If you've already posted it then just say that and I can look it up when I'm back from a movie w/ friends which I need to run to v. soon

[Gammagooey]

As soon as four players have yet to cross, the player who is crossing is resolved and the game ends.

@Mod:

Can you clarify this? Is this when there are only 4 people who

haven't

crossed (7 people across with 1 scum kill, 4 left behind), or when 4 people have successfully crossed over? Or some other way I'm failing to interpret correctly?[/b]

VOTE: Dwlee

[Gammagooey]

If four successive town players reach the other side before scum make a kill, all scum die.

wait does this mean that if scum makes a kill at any point town can no longer trigger the four successive town players clause?

send four across (1 dies) + 4 more townies i think

but if the scum kills someone can town still do the four successive towns thing, is what i'm asking

That's not how I read it. I think getting 4 townies to cross in succession is key, regardless of when.

before

scum make a kill
seems like the relevant text there. but it's prob worth bugging MT about in case I'm wrong

I'm also not particularly interested in going hard into gaming the system with 'the least townie of the 8 first' but I do see the appeal - just put wagons on people I think are town and I'll vote for 'em

[Gammagooey]

Actually maybe my one opinion on order is that if Taly comes he should be in the 5-8 group

Taly-posting is generally good for game health and my sanity

[Gammagooey]

@Gemerald- yeah Cakez did want peta/Dunn specifically for at least a bit

@Taly- peta I just like for his day 1 posting I think. His Blue PT posting was good too but I specifically read over his day 1 posting before voting to yeet Infinity over him and it just seemed like he was casually scumhunting and regular ass townposting

I feel like I just want to leave Skitter/SaberXHarley/Toog/??? uncrossed unless vast amounts of goodposting occurs from them soon. Cakez will probably fight me on Skitter/Saber but I do want to know why he's townreading them so that's fine

[Gammagooey]

eh but gamebreaking when you know the mod is probably not going to allow it anyway is so much easier than actually scumhunting

i see where you're coming from but i demand goodposting no exceptions

[Gammagooey]

SKITTER can you give me like a timeline/summary of who you were suspecting and how strongly through events 1-3? (also I might just call them days 1 and 2 later because that feels correct to me)

I still want this when you have time btw. I don't really understand your read progression on either of peta or infinity at the moment and going through some of your thoughts about them (and any other strong reads) from previous days would help me out a lot with that

[Gammagooey]

Hey Harley, have anyone you definitely want to leave out from crossing at the moment?

[Gammagooey]

We should do a Kingmaker.

One person whom (most) everyone believes is 100% town, decides the order of who crosses and who gets left behind.

So then who would you personally want to be MASTER OF CROSSINGS? (imo you're perceived as too scummy to do it yourself and I doubt you'd disagree with that)


And if you were theoretically promoted to Hand of Crossings if I remember correctly you're not fans of Saber & peta - do you think they're particularly likely to be scum together, or would you be fine with your MASTER leaving just one of them uncrossed to hit what they thought a more likely scum grouping would be? I'm also interested in any spicy panda takes you have under that fuzz

[Gammagooey]

And if you were theoretically promoted to Hand of Crossings if I remember correctly you're not fans of Saber & peta - do you think they're particularly likely to be scum together, or would you be fine with your MASTER leaving just one of them uncrossed to hit what they thought a more likely scum grouping would be? I'm also interested in any spicy panda takes you have under that fuzz

I'd prefer not to say anything unless I am made Master Commander. Since that seems extremely unlikely, then I don't need to say anything at all and will just wait until the town leaders that most certainly aren't scum decide for me.

Uuugh
What if you

didn't

make yourself intentionally hard to read tho

[Gammagooey]

And if you were theoretically promoted to Hand of Crossings if I remember correctly you're not fans of Saber & peta - do you think they're particularly likely to be scum together, or would you be fine with your MASTER leaving just one of them uncrossed to hit what they thought a more likely scum grouping would be? I'm also interested in any spicy panda takes you have under that fuzz

I'd prefer not to say anything unless I am made Master Commander. Since that seems extremely unlikely, then I don't need to say anything at all and will just wait until the town leaders that most certainly aren't scum decide for me.

Uuugh
What if you

didn't

make yourself intentionally hard to read tho

actually I wanna follow up on this toog

I generally consider myself decent at mafia - not awesome, but above average b/c I think the average is

bad

. My reads generally get goodish by mid/lategame but I can get hung up on people who are just being obstinate and are either tunneling really hard on what I think is a bad elim without considering why they could be wrong or people who just won't answer people's questions about their thoughts so people can actually read them.

The one thing in mafia I DO think I'm top-notch at is making games

fucking work

. The 'Pick someone and they choose everything' idea is fine in theory, but it's not actually what we're voting on in-game, and you aren't committed enough to your own idea to even vote for a nominee for it.
I've only been here like a week so far and I think the game would probably be more fun for me personally with like 3 day deadlines so we could speed out most of the decisions and just enjoy the events, which at least seems close to what your ideal of the game would be. Can you at least vote someone for the first crossing so that the game has a better chance of functioning and we have less of a chance of dealing with a half week of waiting followed by a dumb clusterfuck of "oh this person's town enough to cross but I don't want them to cross yet" and everyone getting hung up on their absolute favorite order?

[Gammagooey]

What was the pink final votecount again? I'm pretty sure someone posted it but I have no memory of who

[Gammagooey]

I might re-read Gypyx and Ydrasse a bit tonight/tomorrow (Toog I disagree with being on the survive list for now but I could maybe deal with it for a skitter+harley death)

Ulyana I'd be fine with voting across first, Cakez I'm pretty fine w/ too atm

[Gammagooey]

scummish: Toog, Saber, Ydrasse
fight me scummo: Skitter

@gammagooey

are you still thinking this?

For the most part yeah, and definitely about skitter & Saber

On Skitter - Her latching onto 'No more than 1 scum in Pink' and 'something fucky happened in the Blue PT' without seeing the blue PT herself I dislike a LOT. It seemed like really shallow logic that she wouldn't give up on, and focusing on that instead of her actual reasons to find peta scummy outside of that just seemed like filler posting to me.

Saber I just reread a bit of and Harley's posting now is both a) better than it was last event when it was just random thoughts based on borderline no reading at all and b) still not good enough to not be faked by scum or to outweigh what I think looks slightly sketchy from Saber's posts regarding Dunn - Saber had Dunn as a 2nd from the bottom tier read for a while but didn't bother voting him until there were major wagons on both him & Toog, and early-game had a few statements/comments that redirected people away from Dunn.

Ydrasse I like their posting this event but I still want to reread her and most people I townread more than her

Toog I'm probably fiiiine with not dying today but I don't think the Dunn/Toog interactions are impossible to fake and if he doesn't contribute actual posting in future events either I will try my damnedest to chuck him into the nearest meatgrinder before whatever this game's equivalent of LYLO is

oh jesus there are like 20 posts that happened while I was typing this

[Gammagooey]

why does voting taly thru feel like a mistake lol

i mean

there's a reason why Taly's the only person that I mentioned preferring to go 5th-8th across whereas I don't give a shit about the order for anyone else aside from who gets left behind

[Gammagooey]

Saber I just reread a bit of and Harley's posting now is both a) better than it was last event when it was just random thoughts based on borderline no reading at all and b) still not good enough to not be faked by scum or to outweigh what I think looks slightly sketchy from Saber's posts regarding Dunn - Saber had Dunn as a 2nd from the bottom tier read for a while but didn't bother voting him until there were major wagons on both him & Toog, and early-game had a few statements/comments that redirected people away from Dunn.

this is good tho

scummish: Toog, Saber, Ydrasse
fight me scummo: Skitter

@gammagooey

are you still thinking this?

For the most part yeah, and definitely about skitter & Saber

On Skitter - Her latching onto 'No more than 1 scum in Pink' and 'something fucky happened in the Blue PT' without seeing the blue PT herself I dislike a LOT. It seemed like really shallow logic that she wouldn't give up on, and focusing on that instead of her actual reasons to find peta scummy outside of that just seemed like filler posting to me.

Saber I just reread a bit of and Harley's posting now is both a) better than it was last event when it was just random thoughts based on borderline no reading at all and b) still not good enough to not be faked by scum or to outweigh what I think looks slightly sketchy from Saber's posts regarding Dunn - Saber had Dunn as a 2nd from the bottom tier read for a while but didn't bother voting him until there were major wagons on both him & Toog, and early-game had a few statements/comments that redirected people away from Dunn.

Ydrasse I like their posting this event but I still want to reread her and most people I townread more than her

Toog I'm probably fiiiine with not dying today but I don't think the Dunn/Toog interactions are impossible to fake and if he doesn't contribute actual posting in future events either I will try my damnedest to chuck him into the nearest meatgrinder before whatever this game's equivalent of LYLO is

oh jesus there are like 20 posts that happened while I was typing this

Skitter, why no comment on this?

she did

Her latching onto 'No more than 1 scum in Pink' and 'something fucky happened in the Blue PT' without seeing the blue PT herself I dislike a LOT. It seemed like really shallow logic that she wouldn't give up on, and focusing on that instead of her actual reasons to find peta scummy outside of that just seemed like filler posting to me.

i mean true, i didn't see the blue pt, but i saw the pink pt and i was basing my understanding of the game from what i saw there
and i take issue with the fact that you're saying i was focusing more on the pt than why i found peta scummy, and i also described my peta read above more

[Gammagooey]

speaking of which

Her latching onto 'No more than 1 scum in Pink' and 'something fucky happened in the Blue PT' without seeing the blue PT herself I dislike a LOT. It seemed like really shallow logic that she wouldn't give up on, and focusing on that instead of her actual reasons to find peta scummy outside of that just seemed like filler posting to me.

i mean true, i didn't see the blue pt, but i saw the pink pt and i was basing my understanding of the game from what i saw there
and i take issue with the fact that you're saying i was focusing more on the pt than why i found peta scummy, and i also described my peta read above more

Tbf reading back I think I missed a post or two where you went into slightly more detail in your peta read, but you were townreading him when unwnd asked you about him pre-Dunn flip, you were one of only two people to actually vote peta and get the wagon you wanted, and it felt like the effort you put into pushing for peta-scum and 'only 1 scum in the pink PT' felt comparable. Gemerald, as you have probably heard, got v. visibly irritated when he got ignored by most of Blue PT and had a strong town read nominated. You on the other hand, were one of TWO people in your group to actually get exactly what they wanted, and you had a town read on infinity, and what might have been your best chance to get rid of your scumread felt just lackluster when I would think most people in that position would push harder to rally people to vote out peta-scum.

[Gammagooey]

I finished rereeading through some stuff to try to read Ydrasse and Gypyx better and it was mostly not helpful. I do think I should downgrade Gyoyx/Prism from strong town to regular town read b/c most of my read came from the Prism slot and just Gypyx *efforting* but he still comes across as town to me

Ydrasse wasn't around much for pages like 50-70, kinda helped start the Galron wagon and then wasn't around for a while but also those pages were like a single real-life day so I don't think it's anything to really hold against her. Ydrasse also wasn't around a ton in blue PT which is slightly eh but most of her content there was pushing Toog which I can't really fault either.

My perfect left behind-team atm is prob skitter/Saber/Ydrasse/whoever Ydrasse wants to take down with her but I'm much more concerned with just getting skitter/saber dead atm

If Taly gets within hammer range of sending across I'll do it even though I want him to go later, but also I want to be slamming through the first 4 people once we've got the 1st person crossing.
VOTE: petapan for now

oh hey more posts. I would still push dwlee through too and be perfectly happy about it, so if more votes go in that direction I'll jump back on dwlee wagon. Gemerald is also fine would vote to cross

oh and LAST THING I probably don't have much time to post until Saturday evening except for tomorrow morning and pop-ins to change my vote as a heads-up.

[Gammagooey]

<peta stuff>
I don’t need to post every single thought that goes through my head. I think that both Peta and especially googey talking about me but never affording me the respect of directly interacting with me is not okay but at least Peta bothers to shade me by name but never quotes a single post why but whatever, I’m over it.

This is...pretty clearly not true? We interacted v. directly when we talked about you thinking the Toog/Dunn wagons meant Toog was town.
I can see how it might feel like I'm being a bit dismissive of you, but I think you're pretty likely scum compared to the rest of the players here and your reads feel more reactive than based on actual reading of the game before your entrance, which I don't view as particularly helpful. To answer your question from earlier I could see you as scum with almost all of the playerlist if I assumed that those other particular player(s) were scum (not like...peta and imo likely not Ydrasse b/c I don't think you'd tie yourself to her strongly as Scum/Scum which I feel you're doing when she'd otherwise be in a pretty fine position), and its particularly that if you can be scum with skitter, since you'd feel somewhat forced into distancing/bussing atm given the collective opinion of both of your slots. And if you disagree I feel like it's on you to read through the game and give coherent reads and give actual reasons for why you wouldn't be scum with person X or Y (and peta already made a similar point to this earlier).

[Gammagooey]

oh and
VOTE: Dwlee

[Gammagooey]

also I don't think I've mentioned my reads on Ulyana or Cakez much so I should prob elaborate on them since they're in the 3 votes for being left section (tho obv out of that pile I want skitter to stay behind)

Ulyana's style I found pretty hard to put a read on in my first read-through since she puts a lot of her thoughts & ideas out there but most of them are hard to follow their progression into a solid read - eventually I put her as slight town b/c of her posting with infinity around page 116/117 (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=2875), her trying to work out the Toog/Unwnd wagon unvotes that she found scummy with infinity (and other people to a lesser degree) felt like genuine scumhunting to me.

Cakez is mostly a gut town read - the one non-gut part is that he was one of the people actively pushing for a duel to include Dunn before it got much momentum. The gut part is that he is active and chasing people down and wants BLOOD at multiple times during the game which I think is more likely to come from town overall.

[Gammagooey]

Its party time
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Gammagooey]

in retrospect that was the most obvious thing the mafia could do and we're idiots

personally don't think we're idiots for at least giving a shot at getting an advantage from the wagoning order, but if anyone had expectations above "mayybe we get a bit of info" then those were prob a bit high. Now that the kills happened, I can say that unless mafia wanted/needed a particular player dead TERRIBLY badly one of the better strats for them that event is prob killing in the first two send-ees, so anyone getting sent 5th-8th was prob safe for that player in my mind.

I can roll with voting like half the playerlist since order doesn't matter anymore, biggest preference is Taly but I'll hold off voting for a bit since the game chilling for a day or so for Tamora's Angel to read and everyone to catch their breath mentally seems nice. Also I think I missed a few pages when I read through b/c I missed something about pairs almost entirely

Oh and one last thing for Taly & Ulyana mostly -

But I will digress in the posts you linked since the purpose behind me doing them has passed.

Yo, I'm just trying to get slots to spew so I can better discern who is likelier informed or not, it's not that deep. That's the most simplistic motivation behind almost every post you can have a question about in my ISO.

it's like, why do you think i ask you questions, if everything you're doing is so simple it sIhould be easily explained right? but it hasn't been nor has it been apparent,

I know Ulyana said she wasn't asking about them right now but I do think sharing the reasons/logic behind a few things you asked earlier would be helpful so Ulyana can see where you're coming from better.

[Gammagooey]

I know Ulyana said she wasn't asking about them right now but I do think sharing the reasons/logic behind a few things you asked earlier would be helpful so Ulyana can see where you're coming from better.

it's infinitely more useful in the moment like i ask people who are there when i am for a reason

my general point was

taly, if town,

is making himself intentionally difficult to read

so taly asking 'am i difficult to read?'

is ridiculous

or possibly cheeky

In regards to asking you specifically in that list of 4 people, yeah I agree that it's kind of a dumb question and you made your point about Taly being anti-transparent w/ some of their questions already before he asked it.

In regards to some other people on it I can pretty easily guess on at least a possible direction of Taly's line of thinking for asking it, and I tend to do something I think is a little similar early game by telling people that something is a SERIOUS read without saying the actual reason behind it for several pages to see if other people see where I'm coming from. (But actually telling people the reason for asking questions like that/after being unclear with why you're doing something does tend to help a lot with being readable).

Also Ulyana I literally just asked Taly to do explain a few things like that in my last post. like I do see where you're coming from with a lot of this but I don't think it's behavior more likely to come from scum than town here.

[Gammagooey]

Tamora are you fully caught up with reading yet? I'm admittedly impressed if you are, but atm it feels more like you've missed that there was another replacement in my playerslot between Galron and me (Unwnd) and haven't actually caught up to where I joined yet - I've only been here for 11 days and I've posted multiple times a day in I think most of them so far.
You are getting close to outposting me, but you're welcome to check my wiki page with a decades worth of games to check and see that I'm not the type of player to post 15 times a day as either alignment. If you have any questions about how/why I'm reading particular people feel free to ask but my iso as you've said is pretty short and I think I've been pretty clear with where I stand on most of the playerlist right now.

VOTE: Taly

[Gammagooey]

I'll be cheeky and do this first since they're my strongest town read who hasn't crossed yet
VOTE: Ulyana
will also be happy to hammer myself across if the votes are there for that

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Gammagooey

i did it and then went "this feels like shit"

idk something about that slot not dying event 1 still doesn't feel... good

That's a fair reason to find my slot suspicious and tbh I don't think there's much I could say to reassure you about it - like for p. much anyone in my position, I'd say from an outside perspective they'd deserves extra scrutiny. If you have any questions about any of my posts or things you want me to share thoughts about feel free to poke me about it

Do you have any detailed wordz you want to share about skitter-slot, or do you have anyone uncrossed still that you REALLY think should cross or anyone you'd want to reread before voting for them to cross/voting other people over?

The rereading part can actually be addressed to pretty much everyone btw - it looks like deadline's gone down a day each crossing except it being more after the first, so after this next one pretty much all the rest are likely to be semi rapid-fire (i'd guess something like 24 hours/12 hours/8 hours/6 hours, but it could be either faster or slower than that)

[Gammagooey]

maybe ill just sheep taly instead of reading.

Does scum do this here?

I feel quite confident that Fire can sheep things without reading as any alignment and is perfectly fine announcing it to the world

if it’s the read on your slot... saber doesn’t leave the game like that as scum nor does hq show that level of emotional range as scum (i’m crying every day, etc etc)

I disagree with both points but I'm confident you're speaking from a sincere angle now.

I think the Saber argument has more basis than the HQ one at least but I also disagree on that behavior being unlikely to come from scum. I think it's very unlikely that they planned to do any of it as part of a scum strategy, but genuine irritation and broadcasting mental health triggers/issues to try to get people to lay off aren't alignment specific.

[Gammagooey]

I feel quite confident that Fire can sheep things without reading as any alignment and is perfectly fine announcing it to the world

if you're town then it would mean firebringer also voted for two towns to cross so if scum!firebringer i would think partners or at the very least one would have to already be crossed? because otherwise would be sheeping team into doomed position and not trying to do anything about it

like,

the 'look see i don't have an agenda' thing doesn't really work if it puts team in unwinnable situation,

the alternative is worse for Firebringer-scum and also just not firebringer's playstyle at all

Firebringer as a player doesn't jump in, read a bunch and make a STRONG OPINION to try to save his faction. he's a lazy boi regardless of alignment and by being a lazy boi people town read him for silly reasons, again regardless of his actual alignment. Fire immediately jumping in and trying to save someone from being left behind off of very little reading just makes him look sus and makes it more likely he gets left behind.

[Gammagooey]

so hope for scum!firebringer with partners in the poe would be to cross by seeming agendaless and then hope that just continues to carry him forever, hmhm

i think i am unfamiliar with firebringer outside of a game i read a while ago that i wasn't in

It's from a while back (5 years now jeez) but Firebringer and I both replaced into scum playerslots in Kids TV Show Characters mafia (him lateish day 1, me mid-day 2) if you want to take a quick skim of our isos there for a baseline of either of our potential scum play. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67884

Also fun fact literally not a single mafia got voted out that game, there was just a good commuterizer and a good vig and they teamed up and slowly destroyed us during the night phases

[Gammagooey]

man we are old. and i forgot how extensive ur scum range is

its dece. I feel like I haven't had a really good scum game in years but also I have a habit of playing 1-3 games a year and then not playing any forum mafia for a year and then coming back so I don't exactly roll scum too often either

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: SirCakez
I personally lean Cakez out of everyone to cross next, but the two things I'm confident on this game are Tamora/Firebringer-scum (b/c of Saber/HQ and skitter's play) and I'm pretty willing to openly wheel and deal with my vote to make sure they're left uncrossed.

TALY

you probably disagree with me on Cakez over Ydrasse crossing next, and I think you've mentioned that you think Cakez is a likely busser of Dunn - are there any specifics you could point me to on why you feel that way?

oh hey there's a taly

[Gammagooey]

add your vote to this wagon when you quote it

a vote means you want them uncrossed as a definite or strong confidence

Fire:

Gammagooey

Toog:

Gypyx:

Taly

Cakez:

Taly

Tamora:

Taly, Gammagooey

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: SirCakez
I personally lean Cakez out of everyone to cross next, but the two things I'm confident on this game are Tamora/Firebringer-scum (b/c of Saber/HQ and skitter's play) and I'm pretty willing to openly wheel and deal with my vote to make sure they're left uncrossed.

TALY

you probably disagree with me on Cakez over Ydrasse crossing next, and I think you've mentioned that you think Cakez is a likely busser of Dunn - are there any specifics you could point me to on why you feel that way?

oh hey there's a taly

Then why not ydrasse now

b/c they're not my strongest townread of who's left (or 2nd most townread), and if I got my perfect read list they'd be left behind too. I can see myself being wrong on them but if Ydrasse is going through before Cakez I'd at least like to drag a little info out from the people who do prefer that scenario to happen.

Taly

eh, if you're busy don't bother with rereading or pulling up specific posts. But I do want to pluck at your

VERY SOUL

for what feelings you have or previously had about Cakez and a few things you remember him doing that you think are worth yeeting him over.

p.s. sup Almost

[Gammagooey]

Hey Almost read this to get a handle on the votes/Crossed/Uncrossed/etc for now. Dwlee is dead town unless scum are absolute madmen/madlasses who killed their own scumpartner

"Perfect Balance"

All players vote to nominate players to cross the gap. The deadline starts at 7 days and gets shorter with each new nomination.
When a new player is nominated, the player who is currently crossing (if there is one) reaches the other side, with one exception.
Once at any time, scum may cause a player who is about to finish crossing over to fall to their death.
Scum may queue up this ability on any players they wish in advance.

If four successive town players reach the other side before scum make a kill, all scum die.

Can't happen because scum killed Dwlee who went first, ignore

As soon as four players have yet to cross (are still on the side they started), the player who is crossing is resolved and the event ends.
Players who crossed over before the game ends are safe from the next event. Survival is unlikely for both alignments who are left behind.

---

Statuses 5.0.0

Safely Across [0]

:

Crossing [0]:

Uncrossed [12]

: petapan, ulyana, Ydrasse, Harley Quinn, SirCakez, skitter30, Gypyx, Toogeloo, Gammagooey, Dwlee99, Taly, Gamma Emerald
 

The game will end once 4 uncrossed remain.

[/mech]

Decision 5.0.0

Not Voting [12]

: petapan, ulyana, Ydrasse, Harley Quinn, SirCakez, skitter30, Gypyx, Toogeloo, Gammagooey, Dwlee99, Taly, Gamma Emerald
 

With 12 contestants, it takes 7 to send someone across! You may only vote for uncrossed players.

If a decision is not made by deadline, plurality is in effect, broken by seniority. The deadline is in:

(expired on 2021-11-01 18:51:22)

[/mech]

Now playing..

♫

Gangs of Youth - Achilles Come Down

♫
                        

▶ ❚❚ ────────────────────────────── 0:00 / 7:02

                       

[Gammagooey]

No one is going to highlight the obvious...there's guaranteed scum in the people who have crossed. Maybe we should have listened to me and sent Toog and Firebringer.

untrue. and maybe this will come across as mean but please read the crossed out section of the above post I quoted very, very carefully. if necessary, type the word "before" into google and follow a link until you find a definition.

[Gammagooey]

Oh, my! And 16 more pages in what seems like a locked up neighborhood. FUN!

Oh.. Toog's in the game?? He always rolls TOWN (and somehow can stop kills too)

How's everyone reading Toog?

Toog has been incredibly apathetic for most of the game but like around half the game reads him as town partially because of it? He was also in a duel with flipped scum (because he was the top wagon and Dunn was the 2nd highest wagon, which was public knowledge that it would cause one of the two top wagonees/duel-ees to die) and there is at least a reasonable argument that Dunn would have behaved differently if Toog was his scumpartner.


@Almost - Tamora is just being salty-scum and is mad that I'm being present and assertive in wanting them to stay uncrossed & probably die, despite also trying to shit on me earlier when they came close to outposting my whole 11 days of posting since replacing into unwnd's slot in two days themselves by posting 15 times a day.
Toog's not actually dead btw, he's just still uncrossed and these last two crossings are relatively unclear, compared to the previous...6? Where everyone's been if not universally town-read, town-read by at least enough of the game for them to get sent across by 6 votes within 24 hours or so. Out of everyone I'd say Gamma Emerald is probably the most universally town-read, and he's been pushing most of the wagons through with Taly and whoever else has been online at the time.

[Gammagooey]

Toog's not actually dead btw, he's just still uncrossed and these last two crossings are relatively unclear, compared to the previous...6?

In this case..

VOTE: Toog

why toog town tho?

also like description of duel presented to you kinda ???

like why dunnstral wouldn't have just shot toog if they weren't partnered still the biggest question regarding

Oh yeah, to follow up on that, I guess I'll describe the duel between Toog & Dunn-scum in more detail. Then I gotta go walk my dog tho

1)It's Russian Roulette, Scum knew where the bullet was initially placed
2)Dunn got the gun first, b/c he was the 2nd wagon
3)He made a big post that was 100% WIFOM, and I think shot at himself first? not sure about that last part
4)Toog spins the gun barrel, randomizing where the bullet is (each player in the duel can do this once)
5)Dunn spins the barrel
6)Toog shoots Dunn and kills him

If scum puts the bullet in the first chamber and immediately shoots the other person, they can save themselves reliably but that also pretty much makes them conf. scum, whereas if they don't they have a chance of living but assuming the barrel gets spun at some point it becomes just actual russian roulette.

[Gammagooey]

I'm genuinely angry if I'm wrong on so many things in this game and people have just been yesmen to me.

that's been the lingering fear for me for a while but don't know how to address that

meh

I'm slightly concerned about a quarter of the game has been replaced this event and that all of the scum replacing out at once feels unlikely compared to the possibility of at least one spooky deepwolf.

But the people complaining about the results while putting no effort to point out exactly who/where they think we went wrong are just being reactionary instead of trying to solve the game and give me zero cause for alarm

Also I guess I still haven't put together an actual skitter scum case in-thread yet have I? I probably don't have much free time until lateish tonight but if the event's still going then I'll see if I can at least get that explained a bit more thoroughly

[Gammagooey]

this part of the event seems to be where people are finally kicking it into gear and being more verbal about who they want or don’t want and idk what that Means.

I mean maybe it's a bit self-centered to think, but you can prob just trace this back to me - if I just vote you immediately and roll with Taly/Gemerald I think you prob go over v. quickly instead of the game slowing down and this happening, though maybe it just becomes *pretty much this but much more rushed* for the last choice instead. I'm pretty happy with it b/c regardless of the outcome we get a bit more info on pretty much everyone this way and the replacements get a bit more time to go over the game and make/share reads if they want to influence the game before getting left behind.

[Gammagooey]

i want the doggo to die the most and that makes me sad

mm, kinda want firebringer to cross most

whyyy tho

also plz enjoy this dog pic

Spoiler:

[Gammagooey]

Hey I'm back it's skitter case time

The Slightly Bad Feels

I'm going to start with a few things that I gut don't like but are frankly shrugworthy if they had actually had things that gave townvibes afterwards. Here's a borderline comedically bad readslist for instance with all flipped town except Pooky being either scum or 'weirded out by', Dunn being 'forgot he was there', and having no thoughts on who I think is likely scum Saber.

ah here we go

Cephrir - scumvibes
petapan - feels weird. idk if that makes him scum necessarily but yeah
ulyana - probably town
Ydrasse - scum-ish
Saber - no thoughts
PookyTheMagicalBear - maybe town?
SirCakez - probably town
skitter30 - shining beacon of towniness, etc
Gypyx - had some townpings on prism, but she isn't a slot i can read confidentally. liked gypyx's entrance tho
Infinity 324 - still kinda weirded out by her lack of reaction to me voting her, and i think she's townreading me too easily
Toogeloo - honestly feels too clueless/unaware of what's happening to be scum
Galron - very underwhelmed thus far. was p easy to pick out town-him in radio buzz but not really seeing the same things here yet. could be because he hasn't caught up so i'll give this a little more time but right now feels kinda scummy
Dunnstral - forgot he's in the game
Dwlee99 - scum
Taly - townie
Gamma Emerald - scum

here's where i'm at ^

This feels slightly bad

???

how do u think i should be reading u here?

idk you read me wrong in radio buzz i'm not really planning to try to sort you until lategame anyway

uh this is a weirdly muted reaction to me scumreading you ...

Shit like this in regards to the duel and people self-voting isn't specific to skitter but it's literally pointless paranoia - it was known that one of the two duelees were going to die, and being paranoid about literally anything except *maybe it's secretly better for one player to be the first wagon than the second* was a complete was of time and effort for everyone involved

VOTE: ydrasse

why ...?
UNVOTE:

i'm kinda suspicious that the suspicious people are voting themselves for this ...

THE MEAT OF THE CASE

Go back to page 49 and 50 and re-read it. like right now, go ahead. In retrospect, something that I think is very important happened there.
No seriously go back and read it yourself. But I'll give you the cliffnotes anyway - there was a quickwagon popping up on Dunn on page 49. You know what happened on the next page? Skitter posted SEVENTEEN TIMES on a single page in rapid succession, the Dunn wagon got ignored, and skitter started up a galron wagon on the next page instead. It was an ENORMOUS distraction to a scum wagon, and by page 53 this was the votecount:

"Throne of Execution"

Event Rules

Decision 1.9

Galron [6]:

skitter30, Dwlee99, Ydrasse, Infinity 324, petapan, SirCakez

Gamma Emerald [5]:

Cephrir, PookyTheMagicalBear, Saber, ulyana, Dunnstral

Dunnstral [2]:

Gamma Emerald, Toogeloo

Not Voting [3]:

Taly, Galron, Gypyx

With 16 contestants remaining, it takes 9 votes to place a player in the chair. If deadline is reached, plurality is in effect.

The deadline for this decision is in:

(expired on 2021-10-12 01:43:44)

.[/mech]

Oh let's take a look at some more of skitter's iso regarding Dunn maybe it's better oh wait no it's skitter mentioning that Dunn is an okay/good vote several times but literally never voting him

still though, i think that logic applies in the abstract whether or not you've seen someone's meta

i'm sort of wondering where else you're looking if not to dwlee (and maybe me) but then again unwnd hasn't really towntold yet

for the first point: strongly disagree, i think it very much depends on someone's meta and how they're likely to play the game
second point: dwlee/unwnd/dunn maybe ydra maybe maybe you

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

i would put dunn instead of cakez yeah
i don't think i want infinity there

And then uh last thing that should arguably be in the first category but I just really don't like that it feels like skitter is dissassociating their actions from what they want to do with this statement, and knows they shouldn't be voting unwnd but is making an excuse for doing it anyway

pedit ok i can drop it if you don't want to do this. i don't think i can unvote at this time tho

[Gammagooey]

oh, and very last part. I don't think this should be considered nearly as much as the above, but I also really, really dislike Harley Quinn's interactions with skitter in their short time in the Saber/HQ/Tamora playerslot. It goes from town reading skitter to having doubts because of this skitter post (with the reasoning of HQ thinking skitter has a really bad sr on her)

saber's slot has just kinda been around and just making kinda polished observations without follow-through and without really having an underlying thought process. kinda reminds me of scum-lilith in that way tbh. harley's entrance was focusing on the wrong things and was kinda scummy in that i think it's easier for scum to focus on mechancis in a game like this than figure out what their reads ought to be

and then later after some previous pretty innocuous (imo) conversation with skitter her then this

I’m the most suspicious of Gypyx, Skitter and Cakez.

Spoiler: HQ and skitter interaction posts for context

harley toog
maybe gypyx

which i'm aware probably doesn't contain everyone but that's where i'm at rn

Hmmmm . . . if Skitter turns out to be scum, toog is very likely town from this.

because ...

Because I know you’re wrong on me and you’ve got toog in the same category, so your positioning on gypyx makes them more likely to be a buddy.

'you being in the same category as toog' + 'me reading town-you wrong' != toog-town

that doesn't make any sense

Why doesn’t it? Your read on gypyx is more hedgey than toog.

i am but there's something missing in ur logic there that i'm not getting

Your positioning on gypyx looks more like a buddy than toog, because of your positioning on me.

Because if you’re scum, you’re setting me up to flip me first, then toog, so it looks like a possible chaining of miselims. I still think gypyx is extremely scummy but less certain on that now because of Prism.

I don’t understand your confidence on scum!toog either, so there’s that.

I VERY think this looks like scumVscum and as I've said for a few days the things that I am confident on is that skitter/Fire slot and HQ/Tamora slot should stay behind.

VOTE: SirCakez

[Gammagooey]

wooooooooo my most important reads got listened to

hey peta wanna see some dumb sentences I was typing to myself to post if nobody showed up for a bit?

[Gammagooey]

man now I'm all hyped up but everyone's peaced out already

so I guess I will talk to myself for a few sentences instead

@Gammagooey - Hey Gamma, you know that Taly & Gemerald just voted Cakez right? You prob didn't need to do all that

Shut up me, I was already half done and making sure that skitter/Fire actually gets left behind is important. Also one or if this game is wackier than I think both of them could survive the event this is putting them in, and I could get yeeted into the sun with no notice at any time after this event.

But what if you're wrong

Then I'll deal with it when I see some flips gawd shut up

p.s. firebringer you're chill sorry you replaced into a slot I thought was very likely scum. hope the next event is fun at least!

[Gammagooey]

[For Taly: I did a sort of summary in my first post -

helloooo pink team

so yeah I finished reading earlier today - I replaced in sunday, read all of event 1/2 with reads of Prism & Dwlee look town and skitter looked slightly scummy, then pointed out that that 'oh shit there are 3 days til deadline GET PASSIONATE MY FRIENDS', then everyone showed up between me going to sleep on sunday and noonish monday to nom Infinity with Gamma Emerald vehemently objecting.

More details - Saber was on Infinity very early and sat on it while everyone talked about a lot of things (generally their reads in regards to other people potentially being scum/not scum with Dunn), I posted 'deadline's in 3 days GET PASSIONATE', and in the next 10 hours all the rest of the votes on infinity came on. peta iso'd a chunk of infinitys posting first, Gypyx voted infinity with a semi prod dodge post, Gemerald tried to get other wagons going, and Cakez hammered.

VOTE: Gammagooey

I probably need to try to look at who else looks like potential scum with skitter aside from TA soon but uh I don't want to worry about it tonight and probably won't bother until either tomorrow or the weekend

quote="SirCakez"]I'm annoyed TA did not die they were my highest suspect in that group
Surprised Skitter was scum[/quote]
fight meeeEEEEEEE

[Gammagooey]

ugh stupid quoting copy+paste fuckup

I'm annoyed TA did not die they were my highest suspect in that group
Surprised Skitter was scum

fight meeeEEEEEEE

[Gammagooey]

also this is RAMPANT speculation that probably doesn't even matter in the long run

but Almost voted for both Toog & Firebringer to cross - unless he was astoundingly convinced by my skitter case the last scum sabotage might have been used to save Tamora/prevent Almost from shooting?

[Gammagooey]

Anyone you currently believe should go to Heaven aside from yourself?

Gemerald. Next would maybe be SirCakez? After that I dunno. Still think Ulyana is probtown that just had a bad read on skitter but I want to reread things before deciding past the first heaven+hell spot. (which I want to be me->heaven tamora->hell for reasons that I think are obvious for anyone reading my posts)

omg

ggy

gave me the shitty quote tags disease

it kills 1000

Taly's

every year.

I blame cakez for posting before I could finish my other post

[Gammagooey]

do you think peta isnt heaven worth ?

he probably is. being one of the people that actually voiced support for skitter getting left behind def. gets him ++points. still gonna reread a bit of his posting first b/c I have forgotten most of what he cared about in the execution throne+duel events

Do I scare you,

Gammagooey

?

not really

I just have no solid idea of who the final scum could be (assuming TA is the 3rd) and you're one of several options that are unlikely but reasonable

[Gammagooey]

also this is maybe just me voicing my annoyance more than actually helping to solve things but

@Blue PT gang

: I mentioned the megaposting from skitter & the mini-Dunn wagon around page 50 when I was reading up on the game in the Blue PT - what were your thoughts on that at the time? There is a LOT of posting in this game to go over tbf but I feel like it got pretty much completely ignored until I decided to make a big deal out of trying to make sure Tamora/Firebringer got left behind last event.

[Gammagooey]

This is probably irrelevant but how long was the Blue PT?

Pink PT only reached 21 pages.

16 pages, and I replaced in on page 11 of it

[Gammagooey]

im gonna be honest

how much do we need to think abt this gamephase

need

is like a 4 out of 10 probably

should

is maybe a 6 or 7 but it's mostly just on the last heaven spot or two imo

but also we don't need to think about it

now

so I'ma go play back 4 blood instead

[Gammagooey]

do i get bday privilege in being heaven'd first

asking is worth the try

yes but there is a tradition for this

you must say BIRTHDAY POWERS ACTIVATE and

then

you get whatever you want

[Gammagooey]

also I read through large chunks of execution throne and duel event posting

and found that skitter did a lot of protecting of Cakez who did a lot of protecting of Saber during duel event
and that Cakez being the hammer for both the Gemerald execution throne and for Infinity being the blue PT nomination is slightly gross

so I think I'm at Tamora's>Cakez>Ydrasse>??? for scum now but I kinda just want people to make cases (or at least like, a couple sentences of summary) on who they think is mostly likely non-Tamora scum so I can get a better handle on things

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Taly

[Gammagooey]

gaaaaahhhhh
I don't wanna retract my cakez TR now that it's on the vote thing but I feel like the associative points against him sound good

Eh. Do your own reading of it before taking my word for it. cakez has good points in his iso too, it's just that literally everyone does at this point.

Skitter I was confident about because I don't think I saw basically any *shining town moments* from her, just a sea of fine and reasonable posts with a few damning posts spread between them.
Being absent from how the early events played out in real-time was nice in that it let me read through everything with a minimum of investment in current reads/how active people were being/etc but also makes it harder to tell the tone of how people were interacting with each other back then and what was at the forefront of people's thoughts on the game at the time, which is prob important for getting a better read on which defenses/attacks of skitter's were actually impactful to the game-state and would have mattered, and which were kind of throw-ins to make herself look like she was active & trying to solve the game.

[Gammagooey]

I am still shocked about Fire flipping scum

honestly why

[Gammagooey]

My research on the first thirty pages had him as town.

siigh look my dude. Your answer is probably too late at this point to matter to me personally, so if you wanna ignore this feel free, sometimes doing other shit is more fun than playing mafia and I support making enjoyable choices

but you said that skitter spewed town to you from their early game posting already. you're calling reading the game 'research' but you shared literally nothing about any individual posts skitter made, or which interactions between skitter and other players you thought were good, or like...anything specific on what/why you felt early-game skitter was more likely to be town than scum.

that's not helpful or convincing. ya gotta be able to back up what you're saying regardless of your alignment if you want people to listen to you and take your reads into consideration.

[Gammagooey]

boop
VOTE: Tamora's Angel

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Gammagooey

[Gammagooey]

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Gammagooey]

Gonna be voting peta into heaven as the final one there

Ulyana no matter what two town players have to go into hell because math - if you have a specific opinion/case you want to state on who you think is most likely scum I think that'd be a lot more helpful at this point than towncasing yourself.

[Gammagooey]

like you say this to me and it is like, have i been unclear about who i think the most likely mafia are? because i feel like i have talked about a lot

You've posted a lot and frankly it's hard to keep track of what your thoughts on who you're suspecting most because you go off on a lot of many-post tangents. I would personally be very surprised if Gemerald was scum because he's been incredibly invested in the game and I think has tried incredibly hard to push for people to follow his reads (which have looked v. genuine, especially his townread on infinity in the Blue PT).

I appreciate the effort you've put into the game too, but I think it's a lot harder to read you because your posts usually aren't easy to condense and follow your thought process along with your posting.
(Also if this was a normal game I'd encourage you to vote more because I commented on my first read-through that you didn't put your first vote down until page 40 something, but this game being WACKY SHENANIGANS makes that much less practical advice)

[Gammagooey]

I want this phase to end. I'm excited to think about what Heaven and Hell does and Event 6's conclusion merely strengthened my reads in Event 5.

Ydra/Ulya's

WIM feels sincere and I don't think either display an active scum agenda.

I'm good to discuss and allow people to continue dissecting this game, but until there is tangible evidence otherwise, I think this is solved.

I have felt the sting of hubris too many times to declare the game solved but I'm ready to rock when ya'll are

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: petapan

[Gammagooey]

hello hello

the nominees are Ydrasse followed by Taly, which shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone except maybe Ydrasse given the Heaven PT

my instinct is that yeeting them both wins the game because GE and peta seem very obvtown for how scum played in regards to GE's wagon d1 and how skitter+Saber played against peta plus peta

[Gammagooey]

guessed as much

really dont want to tunnel you here as i want to read thoroughly

but your progression on me this game aligns perfectly with what ive seen come from scum in previous games when im a final or next-to-final mislim.

i really want you to justify yourself, and i dont mean scumcasing me.

youve brought up many points on why i am good for thread health but youve never directly given an opinion of me via my own posting. its based a lot on everything around me.

its a stiff progression and im frustrated if youre town here.

Tbh I felt worse about you than Ydrasse while rereading last night and this morning

The case on Ydrasse scum is that she mostly floated through the game, pushed a lot of town players, and tried to save HQ & had some reluctance to leave behind skitter/Firebringer. which has reasonable scum motivation but uh. feels like pretty bad play from potential Ydrasse scum?

Whereas you've been imo one of the most active and influential people in the game but it's felt like other people have been the ones dragging or nudging you onto scum wagons as opposed to the other way around (with the exception of Dunn). And reading back on the descriptions of the Pink PT described basically you+skitter+dwlee coming together which feels pretty bad in hindsight.
It's just so much posting and thoughts and words but I can't remember a time where you stood up and STRONGLY voiced a preference towards yeeting who you thought was scum. Part of that is because you didn't have to regardless of your alignment I think since GE and you acted together so much but I just don't see a specific spot where you ever put yourself in a position you'd potentially look bad moving away from.

p.s. i see we're all online given the 10 posts made before i hit the submit button

[Gammagooey]

@Ydrasse - I'm most interested in Cakez thoughts from Hell, also a very condensed version of Ulyana thoughts from Hell

Honestly wouldn't mind just ignoring the current event for like 2 days and everyone just going over who they think out of who's left is most likely scum and why

@Taly - I actually did see the Saber+Taly scumteam memeing on my re-read and that was one of the bigger things that stuck in my mind in your favor even though I think it's a silly thing to focus on
also saber joke-scumclaimed with you first, you just rolled with the punches

i perpetuated the T/S Cakez/Ulya narrative.
i allowed you the power to potentially decide my fate.

I don't remember the Cakez/Ulya thing being noticeable to the majority of the game but maybe it was before I replaced in or just buried in an avalanche of other posting. I'll go look for it later today

woo woo deciding your fate is the same dumb WIFOM that someone argued Firebringer was town for (he's not pushing super hard to live he must be town wowwww)

[Gammagooey]

one more post before i exit

i perpetuated the T/S Cakez/Ulya narrative.
i allowed you the power to potentially decide my fate.

I don't remember the Cakez/Ulya thing being noticeable to the majority of the game but maybe it was before I replaced in or just buried in an avalanche of other posting. I'll go look for it later today

This was at it's pivotal moment in the crossing, when you rep'ed in.

Ok, found the posts now at least
How does it stand out from your other posting as noticeable or important to you? You wanted both of them to cross in the first 4 the day before that. When I came in and voted Ulyana to cross 4th it seemed like you dropped it in favor of just Cakez being scum (though I think you mentioned that was the way you were leaning a bit earlier as well).
You kept pushing Cakez but I had made it VERY clear at that point that I would do basically any combination of people crossing to get both of Tamora's/Firebringer left behind so I don't really get why you wouldn't reach out to me and nudge me into letting one of Almost/Toog live in exchange for Cakez not crossing at that point. I just don't see you acting at that time as though getting Cakez left behind is that important to you, especially compared to keeping in step with Gamma Emerald. Like I just don't get your mindset around all that really.

woo woo deciding your fate is the same dumb WIFOM that someone argued Firebringer was town for (he's not pushing super hard to live he must be town wowwww)

That's weak doll think I play like

Firebringer

?

I think the same reasoning applies. Does fighting for yourself to become ruler make you look townier there and improve your chances of ultimately winning the game if you're scum? you can argue it but I'd say that anyone who puts up a townie or two here looks worse, not better.

[Gammagooey]

i just want to take a moment to say that it has been a very challenging game

but you're all wonderful people and it is a pleasure to be with you here at endgame

so let's take a deep breath and compose ourselves and do the best we can

let's make the ending of this a great one

also agree

and also my laptops about to run out of batteries and i should walk dog and get lunch
so i'll be back in a while

[Gammagooey]

A thought just sparked that history repeated itself from event 4

Gammagooey

, why was I your initial pick for Ruler? I think I got the control I was asking for in the prior events, at least.

You were/are most likely town aside from myself, and I'm not a fan of self-voting as a first option on things like that given that it gives no info to other people and tends to lead to "well now that everyone's self-voted and has been useless for a few hours, let's move onto the actual voting phase"

And I feel like I've said things similar to this several times already, but I don't think your behavior around infinity in particular comes from scum. ESPECIALLY the part where you advocated for scum choosing who between peta+infinity would die instead of actual voting on it ourselves - it just came across as very, very genuine town paranoia+irritation+suspicion of general fuckery when you pushed so hard to try to avoid infinity getting yeeted and it looking like that's what was going to happen anyway.

--------------

Also, I think defenses tend to be...pretty useless and uninformative for reading people for the most part, so unless someone wants a specific response/answer for something I did/thought/etc I'm prob going to just ignore most people's suspicions on me for the duration of this event and let ya'll talk about me among yourselves and just chime in about other people. The one thing I do want to say is that skitter carrying her game in Team Mafia 2020 was the biggest reason why my team there didn't go 4/4 with all town members. If I came into this game as scum to most of the game townreading skitter despite her not doing much to earn those townreads, I'm pretty sure I roll with that and try to power through the game with her instead of going on a crusade against her for my entire time in the game. And also for Blue PT gang Saber's first post to me on replacing in, reading the first 25ish pages, and voting skitter being (this is a rephrased version->"What are your thoughts on me, do they match unwnds? Also skitter seems town for X & Y") would be very weird.

[Gammagooey]

i just realized i forgot to eat lunch because of this game

you fool

we'll still be here to argue about things tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

You were/are most likely town aside from myself

excuse me, sir

nyeh heh heh

but also in addition to Gemerald's response to Infinity being wagoned. Does skitter take up the vast majority of page 50 single-handedly derailing a Dunn wagon that Gemerald started if they're both scum together? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13038098

Does Gemerald continue to try to set up a Dunn wagon as his alternative right before he gets nommed for the Throne of Execution? Does Gemerald waffle on skitter for a bit, leave her as a townread midgame, but ultimately decide to leave Firebringer when he could have brought him through instead of Cakez?

If you think so I'm genuinely interested in your reasons for those in particular

[Gammagooey]

so hope for scum!firebringer with partners in the poe would be to cross by seeming agendaless and then hope that just continues to carry him forever, hmhm

i think i am unfamiliar with firebringer outside of a game i read a while ago that i wasn't in

It's from a while back (5 years now jeez) but Firebringer and I both replaced into scum playerslots in Kids TV Show Characters mafia (him lateish day 1, me mid-day 2) if you want to take a quick skim of our isos there for a baseline of either of our potential scum play. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67884

Also fun fact literally not a single mafia got voted out that game, there was just a good commuterizer and a good vig and they teamed up and slowly destroyed us during the night phases

looking at this game now and lol did you make it your personal mission to try to flip MoI this game or something

a)he was scummy from my (scum) PoV
b)he was the damn commuterizer that we COULDN'T KILL because he was bouncing between himself and someone we tried to kill earlier (the vig maybe?) it was very frustrating and if we could have elim'd him during the day we def. would have won that game

[Gammagooey]

ur a good birb Taly

have some dogpics

Spoiler: leafdog

Spoiler: cardog

[Gammagooey]

I'd like to see some posting from GE+Ydrasse about who they would have put up if they got to be ruler, who they think is most likely scum, etc (Ydrasse I think was planning on going over some stuff today)

One thing I noticed was after GE's Throne event basically everyone who was posting in the pages immediately afterwards is now either flipped town or Ydrasse - skitter+saber+dunn were nowhere to be seen until I think 5 or so votes were already on sparing Gamma. I want to lean that scum wanted to hang back and get a feel for how Gemerald's posting was being responded to before committing to spare/execute, but also ya'll are hyperposters and those several pages of words were all within an hour or two of each other so it'd be at least reasonable that the individual players just weren't around until the wagon had already formed. But at the very least it wasn't skitter+saber planning to come in fast & hard to save Gemerald after getting him the throne.

@Taly - Can you try to guide me through your thoughts on Gamma Emerald early game and how they changed (or didn't) with the Throne event? I wouldn't mind some of your earlier thoughts in regards to how your read on skitter progressed too.
Also did you ever follow up with skitter on your 1646 question in here?

Nah, Galron may be dealing drugs on the side but Gamma is the shining stagehand. I implore you to vote him.

Is it impossible that both wagons have been largely town-led regardless of Gamma/Galron's alignment? It's almost a distraction to consider what the scumteam as a whole could be doing D1 in this game because they have more information of the chair than the rest of plist.

What do you think the scum has been doing this game?

so from your pov what have scum been doing this phase?

Matadoring Gamma's wagon.

i'm gonna take a rain check and come back to these, i'm sorry, i just can't string together words coherently rn
but will circle back and respond when i can

~
more broadly since we're at a pretty game-critical point, i prefer galron over gamma. i think they can be svs, but i do think galron is almost certainly s and would prefer him
i'm very underwhelmed by dunn but don't know if that ai for him, also think it would be a disappointing way to end the day if we ended up flipping him while we have this gamma/galron thing going on

hopefully i'll be able to say more abt this later

pedit i'll come back to that one too

p.s. i swear even when nobody has posted for hours i still get multiple posts popping up before I finish a single post

ur a good birb Taly

have some dogpics

Spoiler: leafdog

Spoiler: cardog

Executive doggie

too late he now owns 3 businesses and is planning to axe all TV advertising in favor of smell-based alternatives

[Gammagooey]

TWEETIE!!

What happens if both nominees TIE in number of

"Yays"

?

Do they both die? Is it because of the nom order? Do they both survive?

The player who was the earliest in nomination order will die in the case of a tie.

Was this information something you asked for Ggy?

I guess you nor the mod can answer and if so that's fine but like

Why risk Ydra first if your conclusion points more toward me?

You even said (or implied from my POV) in the Heaven PT that I was the most likely partner to Titus outside of {Cakez/Ulya} group.

imo it was pretty obvious from the

At least one player must die.

part of the rules that the mod wouldn't allow something dumb like tying the vote to let both players live

Ydrasse is first because I assumed that most people in the heaven PT were fairly confident in their townreads of everyone in there given how little discussion there was of both putting people in the heaven PT and nobody except me expressing any suspicion of anyone in it while we were voting on the ruler. The thing I wanted to avoid was:

-Taly is first, is passed over+lives
-Ydrasse is second, is executed and flips town
-I am sad and annoyed

[Gammagooey]

Also I'll reply to your post about Cakez probably tomorrow Ggy

Tbh I leeching off of rereading the game via Peta so it's not like I have to :EFFORT: too much

I don't really have a post about Cakez recently? The one that mentions him near the end is just "would gamma emerald do these things as scum such as cross Cakez instead of Fire" and its mostly directed towards peta, but if you feel POWERFULLY CONFIDENT about it your answer is fine too. if not prob don't worry about it

[Gammagooey]

Also I'll reply to your post about Cakez probably tomorrow Ggy

Tbh I leeching off of rereading the game via Peta so it's not like I have to :EFFORT: too much

I don't really have a post about Cakez recently? The one that mentions him near the end is just "would gamma emerald do these things as scum such as cross Cakez instead of Fire" and its mostly directed towards peta, but if you feel POWERFULLY CONFIDENT about it your answer is fine too. if not prob don't worry about it

wait I'm a dumbass you're talking about this post aren't you
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13121528

nevermind carry on

[Gammagooey]

confident enough to confront

Ggy

post-game if he's actually town because I'm shocked.

I still straight don't get why you're scumreading me aside from this post

hello hello

the nominees are Ydrasse followed by Taly, which shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone except maybe Ydrasse given the Heaven PT

my instinct is that yeeting them both wins the game because GE and peta seem very obvtown for how scum played in regards to GE's wagon d1 and how skitter+Saber played against peta plus peta

guessed as much

really dont want to tunnel you here as i want to read thoroughly

but your progression on me this game aligns perfectly with what ive seen come from scum in previous games when im a final or next-to-final mislim.

i really want you to justify yourself, and i dont mean scumcasing me.

youve brought up many points on why i am good for thread health but youve never directly given an opinion of me via my own posting. its based a lot on everything around me.

its a stiff progression and im frustrated if youre town here.

like it feels like you're ignoring literally everything I've done prior to the heaven PT which seems nuts to me

I can get away with playing differently today because I literally can't die today, and I'm taking advantage of that to some extent, mostly to fuck off and try to let other people breathe and reread and try to come to their own conclusions about the game and see how they do so. I've put in the work to yeet the people I was confident in being scum and am out of CONFIDENT scum reads, and I think the game works better if people have to push for what they believe is the right choice on their own instead of letting other people dominate the game and rely on them to get everything right themselves.

[Gammagooey]

ugh, you distracting me

ggy

by tilting me omg

I'll be back with some

Gemerald/Ggy

analysis.

I'm literally trying to give you as much space to talk and discuss things with other people as I can and I make a single post followed by you sextuple-posting and saying I'm tilting you

I'm away for the next like 5 hours

[Gammagooey]

Should have time to flesh out my thoughts on the game today/tonight - probably going to reread some of Ydrasse's posting around lunch alongside peta's posts about them, might have time to post about that then, will def. have time to explain my Taly thoughts and whatever else I want to talk about after work tonight.

[Gammagooey]

Oh, one thing that I'm curious about tho it prob doesn't matter much

@Ydrasse - Did Hell PT deadlines work kinda like the crossing event where it would get shorter for each person? And I'm assuming not given how you described it but after a sacrifice was it possible for a 2nd person to sacrifice themselves further down the order to save either a 2nd person or someone who already sacrificed themselves?

[Gammagooey]

Going over stuff now, have another tab with some Taly stuff in it but I wanted to reread the Ydrasse stuff that peta pointed out with context first.

Found this in between some of the early stuff, and I think all of this looks good for Gamma Emerald, and Especially post 1346 feels like scum pushing town to get off their partner instead of a scum/scum interaction.

Gamma's behavior still doesn't make sense to me. He's calling his defender Infinity a 'dear friend', but then is strangely antagonistic to Dwlee who's also defending him.

I see skitter's point about it being counterproductive in the second case if he's paid actor, but..... I lost my train of thought and don't really know where I'm going with this. I'm probably confbiasing myself since I'm attributing erratic behavior to always be indicative of money, so never mind.

Gamma, what your thoughts on the Galron wagon and your read on him right now?

My thoughts on the wagon are it seems mostly backed by those in my upper tiers, so that’s a good sign
My opinion of Galron himself is that he kinda has started to feel like he did in Radio Buzz but I lack a hard instance of where I’m getting that feeling, it’s just there. However, I also vaguely TRed scum Galron in mini 2234 so I probably just don’t know him well enough to claim actual accuracy at reading him.
So like, I don’t feel like I personally want to be a part of the wagon, but I’m not stopping others from pursuing the Galron elim if that’s what they think will flip scum.

So what I'm getting is that the wagon is pushed by your co testant-reads and you feel unsure about Galron, yet you won't vote him despite him being your counterwagon?

Your answer is lacking awareness of the fact that you're competing with him right now, what do you want to achieve with Dunnstral on 2 votes?

I don't think he is being coached i think he is just town, for the record
also nothing Galron is posting is making me want to move my vote

What's worse is the way Gamma's acting around it though. He's paid and trying too hard to not appear survivalistic, whereas he would probably care less if he was a contestant.

I mean
Gamma has been vote hopping like crazy all game
what is the motivation to stop doing it now?

I dunno

that's why it's weird af.

he was so desperate to vote any1 but himself

but when an actual viable counterwagon shows up.

he's like finding some weird as f excuses to stay off the wagon.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean
Gamma has been vote hopping like crazy all game
what is the motivation to stop doing it now?

That's the point, because it'll look bad for him if he does it now onto his counterwagon.

Correction: He's

afraid

it'll look bad for him voting a counterwagon but actually it would've been fine and probably what town would do.

[Gammagooey]

Also Saber kept pushing for Gemerald-scum after the Execution Throne event here - don't think it's as strongly town-indicative as the last chunk, but she def. didn't just lay off Gamma once the heat was off from his Throne-posting

Most vocal stagehand or suspicions from Pooky I can see are on Gamma, Dunnstral, and petapan. He also supported a S-S theory for the two leading wagons.

I didn't have time to express thsie earlier; the most stagehand part of Gamma's whole monologue were probably these 2 posts:

Well this is an interesting position. Looks like both the minority stances were right in a sense, funnily enough. My gut inclination is to shoot in my SRs but I ain’t gonna fuck around and find out. I want to consider my reads again with the truth of the chair in mind.

Well that was unfortunate but I think inevitable. I have an idea about why Pooky was selected to die. It’s getting factored into my new decision though, so I’ll hold onto it until I’m ready to make the call.

These reactions seem quite muted for a relatively emotive person like Gamma, from what we've seen from the rest of this game.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.

[Gammagooey]

Man there's a lot of shit to go through. I'll try and separate this post into chunks of things I'm responding to for readability.

Starting with I think the first Taly things that I haven't given a response to yet

One final post from phone before break

hello hello

the nominees are Ydrasse followed by Taly, which shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone except maybe Ydrasse given the Heaven PT

my instinct is that yeeting them both wins the game

I don't like your approach here.

You KNOW that

Ydra/Taly

must contain AT LEAST ONE town.

So why be OK with yeeting 2 players in a situation that could actually be elo?

You're not counting the fact that we have only seen one of two of scums sabotages in play.

You're also not counting the fact that you could be wrong in your final solve.

So this positing reads as your priority of elimination to be higher than finding the final scum.

Which is a big red flag.

It's optimal to consistently express

"Nay"

when the thought could cross a player's mind because we could actively be preventing a mislim.

And since there is only 1 scum left, there's no reason to be weary of scum protecting a partner.

So there's no impulse for town to want to just lim nominees when a solve contradicts otherwise... like only having 1 scum left but wanting to lim 2 for a

"win"

.

You know what

I'm gatekeeping this shit further.

Anybody who votes

"Yay"

for both nominees is either gamethrowing or scumclaiming.

There is NO middle ground.

This potentially being a game-losing situation if we eliminate two players (which I'm assuming is what you mean by elo from context) is an assumption you're pulling out of your ass. As for the 2nd scum sabotage I personally suspect that it was used in some way to keep TA alive after the crossing, and suspect even more-so that scum wouldn't have a sabotage that is *skip the last event and instead immediately win the game* because it would be incredibly unsatisfying and disappointing to play through to that outcome, but that to be fair is also complete speculation on my part. If I was playing the game as a ghost-townie from outside the game that nobody could touch or speak to I think I probably would yeet both you and Ydrasse and if I was wrong try to figure out which of Gemerald/peta was scum afterwards given that I still think that GE+peta are both town and that town wins the game by eliminating all of the scum in it.

But Notably, I'm not a magical intangible ghost-townie, I can interact with people and get opinions and advice from them and actually work with them to try to win the game. And you are right at least in stating that I can be wrong and, and I'm not going to try to convince Gemerald+peta to yeet Ydrasse as well as you here if they're not confident that it gives the best chance of town winning, and you & peta do also have a point that there could be an advantage to there being more townies in the final event. Like at this point I'm almost certainly going to be voting Nay for Ydrasse-death barring a Massively unlikely kumbaya moment where both peta+Gemerald both change their minds about Ydrasse being their most likely scum in the game aside from you.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why did you take the ruler position when you originally wanted

Gemerald

?

In retrospect, it just feels like your motivation was just to counter my expressed desire for ruler.

uh. yes? I explicitly said that I thought everyone in Heaven was obviously town except you, who I said was comparatively only probably town and the most likely scum in the Heaven PT. I would have voted for anyone except you as ruler, peta had said he wanted either himself or me as ruler, and you said you were fine with voting in either me or you as ruler, so I took the opportunity to self-vote and become ruler with your and peta's votes. I don't think you could have backed down from letting me become ruler given the game-state after that as either alignment - either you're town and genuinely believe that the game will end with TA/Cakez dying like you've said previously so you don't care, or if you're scum backing off from supporting me as ruler IMMEDIATELY after saying you'd be fine with it while I'm expressing suspicion of you makes you look incredibly self-preserving and makes you much less likely to live to endgame.

And I don't think the post you just quoted is insignificant. I detailed in several posts why I had an issue with your mentality here, and it feels like the mentality you were paranoid of

ME

having in the PT.

Like, you're not being fair.

And honestly, to say that my suspicion of you stems from just that one post trivializes my other interactions with you this event that illustrated why I don't follow your POV here. Including the implied distrust of my slot since the crossing.

Frankly I feel like you've done a bad job of summarizing it well. I'll try to make a summary myself to respond to, if I miss a piece and you want a response to it just quote it and @me in ONE post with a "Respond to this please", I don't want to sort through another 30 posts to find exactly what you're talking about.

Code: Select all

1)You think I'm scum for pushing for both you and Ydrasse to die

I said in my first post of the day that my instinct was that yeeting you+Ydrasse would win the game for town, and made one followup post detailing why I thought that you and Ydrasse were the two people most likely to be scum out of everyone, with about two sentences on why Ydrasse could be scum and a few more why I think you're most likely scum. You have gone HAM on this despite (or to be charitable, maybe partially because of) me not pushing hard to yeet Ydrasse and not voting for Ydrasse to be executed at all. If I was actively pushing for both you+Ydrasse to die over the past few days it'd at least be a decent argument, but imo it's literally just blowing my initial post saying "I think eliminating Ydrasse+Taly likely wins the game for town" way out of proportion.

Code: Select all

2) Quote from Taly: No action itself is too incriminating but the progression tells me that Ggy sowed distrust in the townbloc from an informed perspective to endgame.  
Because neither the rest of us 3 were combating a cohesive idea that we were a correct townbloc because we had no information to suggest such.

I feel like I've made it clear throughout the game that I was confident in my skitter read, and that by mid/late in the crossing I was confident in my HQ/Tamora read, and that I was not nearly as confident in any other scum reads. I wanted to get a few opinions on who people thought was most likely scum during Heaven nominations because I didn't feel confident on who the last scum could be.

also I read through large chunks of execution throne and duel event posting

and found that skitter did a lot of protecting of Cakez who did a lot of protecting of Saber during duel event
and that Cakez being the hammer for both the Gemerald execution throne and for Infinity being the blue PT nomination is slightly gross

so I think I'm at Tamora's>Cakez>Ydrasse>??? for scum now but I kinda just want people to make cases (or at least like, a couple sentences of summary) on who they think is mostly likely non-Tamora scum so I can get a better handle on things

gaaaaahhhhh
I don't wanna retract my cakez TR now that it's on the vote thing but I feel like the associative points against him sound good

Eh. Do your own reading of it before taking my word for it. cakez has good points in his iso too, it's just that literally everyone does at this point.

Skitter I was confident about because I don't think I saw basically any *shining town moments* from her, just a sea of fine and reasonable posts with a few damning posts spread between them.
Being absent from how the early events played out in real-time was nice in that it let me read through everything with a minimum of investment in current reads/how active people were being/etc but also makes it harder to tell the tone of how people were interacting with each other back then and what was at the forefront of people's thoughts on the game at the time, which is prob important for getting a better read on which defenses/attacks of skitter's were actually impactful to the game-state and would have mattered, and which were kind of throw-ins to make herself look like she was active & trying to solve the game.

As for the rest of you 3 having a cohesive idea of a townbloc, it's prob worth asking peta & Gemerald exactly how confident they were in it since they did have differing opinions on who the ruler should be, but it's a reasonable perspective. I am a little surprised that I was the only one who actively pushed for "If there's a scum here I think it's X", but I do think I try to push for potential small advantages in game-state more than most players and would rather fight for what I want even if there's risk involved or most people disagree with me. For instance, here in Signs & Void where I was confident enough on that player being scum with a flipped Titus-scum to want to literally bet an additional elimination on it:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 4#p6895214

VC 135 (Minor Day 3, VC 3)

Choice:

Would you like to trade the second Major Day Three lynch for two lynches if the first lynch hits an

Annihilation

player and no lynch if the first lynch hits a

Creation

player?

(7)

Keep:

Cheetory6, Shadoweh, vezokpiraka, Untrod Tripod, Formerfish, ChannelDelibird, ActionDan

[Decided!]
(1)

Trade:

Gammagooey

(4)

No Choice Vote:

mastin2, 4nxiety, singersigner, Espeonage

(Formerfish, ChannelDelibird, ActionDan)

With 12 players alive it's 7 to Bane or Choose. Minor Day Three ends on Wednesday, May 28th at 6 PM CST.

Minor Day Three Deadline

(expired on 2015-05-27 18:00:00)

Code: Select all

3) To suggest I'm scum after my Heaven PT play would be to believe that I gamethrowed.

I think that you as scum suggested that you'd be fine with me as a ruler to try to look town and to keep up your stance that you thought the game would end in a town win with TA/Cakez flipping, and you didn't feel like you could take it back after I self-voted without looking incredibly sketchy. Also, scum have MORE knowledge of the events given the First Post, but presumably not ALL information about events - if you didn't know the ruler would choose two people for potential elimination OR that 3 people could/would die in Hell, it's a reasonably safe bet for you that you still aren't in this position given that I explicitly said that if I were given a kill from being ruler I'd kill TA/Cakez first.

Code: Select all

4)And also, why aren't you defending Gemerald?

He can't die in this event. Also as peta pointed out I did a bit already.

I think that's it. Jesus that took forever. I'm gonna go make a MUCH QUICKER summary of why I think Taly is scum, make sure I have the important bits from my Taly thoughts in Heaven PT rephrased in there since Ydrasse can't see them, and maybe get more detailed with it tomorrow but no promises on that.

[Gammagooey]

Oh actually I had this saved from earlier so this first and then Taly summary:

meh on a lot of peta's posting about Ydrasse-town but https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13123228 does seem good to me

also if Ydrasse is scum this is the smoothest scum-partner call out I have ever seen and I will applaud her post game

i mean idk fmpov it's like

i'm not doing a lot but i'm not doing a lot that's scummy either so ... the people who are being pushed on a lot might be scum + the people pushing me are looking for ways to not be on partners

Like i guess i see this but kinda like I said above u also know ur not playing in a way that would gef u townread so from ur pov i'm not sure u shouod be finding it odd or scummy that people scumread you

i dont find it odd and i naturally assume some ppl doing it are town but i think that bcuz of that 1-2 people probably are being opportunistic and blending in with the town ppl because it's easy

[Gammagooey]

Heaven PT things:
Taly asked me to read over page 159 where she pushed for Dunn/Cakez to be the duel after I mentioned I thought she was the most likely possible scum in Heaven PT
I read it and thought they were generally good but didn't like that she was still willing to switch her vote around to people that weren't Dunn until near the end of the duel, by which time I thought that Dunn had shown that he was probably going to be not helpful to the game at large and thus not worth defending to his scumbuddies.

Some ~playful banter~ happens, Taly defends their interactions with Dunn a bit

I say that Taly is still pretty likely town but I'm not comfortable enough with their skitter interactions to make them ruler, specifically mentioning that I think it's possible that they as scum went after different town wagons early game and didn't do much aside from gently nudge each other and criticize each other's reads occasionally.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quick reasons why I think Taly is scum aside from the above

-Taly was the one who specifically dissuaded Pink PT from putting up Saber as the nom, because Taly wanted to sort them in-thread. It seemed like from the descriptions that it was set up as skitter/Infinity v Taly/Dwlee and that ending with a 2 vote nom on peta with Taly not voting feels v. bad.

Taly/Dwlee V Infinity/Skitter

is a gamestate plot line I never thought would come this game.

-Taly keeping their options open to potentially put Firebringer through the crossing until Gemerald came in with the critical vote instead of pushing for the scumread on Cakez feels weird to me considering that I said I would do basically any combination of 2 other people as long as both skitter and TA were left behind

i feel like taly's arguments might be focused on the here and now because he knows if you look at past game content it's impossible to argue against rationally

^is also true

I also feel like Taly just never

seriously

considered skitter-scum as a possibility this game which sketches me out a fair bit. There's just pokes and disagreements and a bit of shade but I don't think they ever seriously pushed each other.

[Gammagooey]

I would have voted for anyone except you as ruler, peta had said he wanted either himself or me as ruler, and you said you were fine with voting in either me or you as ruler, so I took the opportunity to self-vote and become ruler with your and peta's votes.

Imo what you

should

have done was at least wait for me to come in and give assent because maybe I would have but I feel a little walked over having had you 3 just make that call without running it by me at all. I can’t really feel good about this choice when I feel like I wasn’t really a part of the process in the end. When Infinity was nominated during event 4 I at least was able to speak for my position even if no one listened. This just feels so much worse.

I'm sorry to have left you out, but I did vote you for ruler before basically anything else happened in heaven thread, and you were voting for the one person who I thought had a possibility of being scum in the Heaven PT to be ruler. If ya don't want to deal with making the tough choices, ya gotta be ready for someone else to make a choice you don't agree with.

If it helps, just remember we'll all just randos on the internet arguing for fun and the satisfaction of winning/doing well in a game - it can be frustrating but the consequences of being right/wrong or winning/losing don't really matter as long as you put in a good effort and remember to treat people well at the end of the game.

[Gammagooey]

All players vote to nominate a player to partake in a

Duel to the Death

.
The first player to reach a majority will be nominated, as well as the player with the second-most votes when a majority occurs.
The player who was nominated second gets the gun first. It is guaranteed at least one nominee will not survive the duel.

[Gammagooey]

Ggy do you regret your noms?

no

[Gammagooey]

Ggy do you regret your noms?

no

do you still love me <3 ?

Love is maybe a bit too strong and similar to peta I'm kind of irked at your play this phase.

Still like you as a person a lot tho and most of the time as a player too

[Gammagooey]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

[Gammagooey]

gammagooey do you love me

gurl i like you but I barely even know you

[Gammagooey]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

do you think taly is advanced lolcatting right now or something

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

[Gammagooey]

i dont think anyone thinks youre scum except maybe gooey :<

Not saying this as some sort of voodoo reverse psychology bullshit to save my ass (because I know it won't work)

I just don't know how this is anything but "Taly has more WIFOM and less reason to clear than Ydra" VS "Taly is just the final scum"

And that's why I can't believe Ggy actually believes I'm scum because he doesn't feel regret or a reason to rethink here.

that's fine for you to think

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for, and that you never took me or anyone else seriously enough to follow through on the skitter suspicions you said you had during the InfinityvsPeta event that weren't brought up again when skitter or Fire was in actual danger from the crossing event.

I'm not gonna paraphrase 21 pages of the pink PT that was just annoying to gi through the first time

And how did I prevent the Saber nom anymore than Ulya/Toog/Dwlee?

You can't answer that. So why does this make Pink PT the group with 2 scums?

sure is YOU CAN'T PROVE I'M SCUM over here

I'm just curious how that blossoming partnership came to be. The only thing you had in common was wanting Ydrasse out.

I'm curious why your stance in the PT was to sheep either me or

Skitter

, despite our increasingly differing viewpoints.

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

[Gammagooey]

AtEing to the best of his ability and hoping that someone will find it town enough to vote Ydrasse over them.

the thought did cross my mind

props to you if you made this post while being informed

And then what? Ydra flips town and I as scum have to hope for a good event 10 to win?

I've lost if I'm scum, but not as town, even upon dying this phase, which i will not stop.

better than dying

please don't insult my intelligence by saying that as scum you'd give up here instead of continuing posting and hoping people would flip their reads on you, even if you thought is was very low % to work.

[Gammagooey]

Go on Ggy, how did I prevent a Saber nom?

We all want to know.

Still waiting.

in your post you said that skitter wanted Saber. in literally the post after Infinity also said that they wanted saber. the other post is you asking why Toog was willing to sheep you/skitter despite you two not agreeing on things.

it sounds like you had plenty of influence in the Pink thread and then wound up doing absolutely jackshit with it by ending the phase not voting so that skitter could ultimately get peta nominated instead.

[Gammagooey]

And why did Skitter vote for petapan in the end when she could've just bussed Saber?

The argument that I'm scum because a Saber nom didn't happen is not a concrete reason to suspect me because flipped town also had a POV very similar to mine.

because scum eliminating other scum is ultimately bad for their faction, whereas setting it up so that skitter attacks/distances and the other scumbuddy comes in with a disagreement so that they don't ACTUALLY kill each other is in fact a much better strategy.

like obv you're going to disagree with my perspective on this but I feel like the reasoning I'm coming from is pretty clear.

I'm fine leaving it there if you are, I'm bouncing between playing Psychonauts 2 and posting here so if you want my opinion on something else in the next hour and a half or so just give me a holler

[Gammagooey]

every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start, let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing. My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince

him

, not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum, complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!" but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Granted, I can't attribute all of that to strictly town/scum because there are substantial playstyle differences between the two. But I have a pretty solid archetype of "aggressive townie with a slightly self-centered game-view" in my head from previous games and I think GE fits that to a tee.

p-edit: can ya'll chill
it's still a game even when people you think people are being jerks or unfair by doing something and you can disagree with people diplomatically instead of doing out of game callouts and making the game worse

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: Nay

[Gammagooey]

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum,

What are you saying here? That all my pushes this game were half-ased?

Aside from Dunn and maybe Gamma Emerald day 1, pretty much

This is a blatant misrepreswntation. Not once had I preferred to put Saber in the duel on retrospect.

A nom, yes, but this phrasing is inconsistent with the timeline.

You're right about this one actually, meant to say it about the nomination but accidentally wrote duel instead

We fucked up

Saber

should've been nominated.

but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Huh?

1. What consensus reads did I push people to make?
2. Where is the argument that I'm scum here?
3. How did I budge views away from scum that I was correct on like Dunn - who I wagoned Event 2?

I can't follow your argument on me at all and it feels left-field compared to what you were just implying about my Pink PT performance.

Did you know I spent most of the pink PT 1v1ing Skitter on my Ydrasse read? Not that you'd care to hear me dispel the mystery of Event 4.

In the crossing you put out a list of the 6 people that could potentially cross/not cross as the final 2 with Fire on that list of people to live, and despite thinking that I was town enough to cross earlier I don't think you EVER asked me to detail why I was scumreading skitter, or asked anyone else about skitter potentially being scum on the crossing day when they were threatened as opposed to talking about other possible pairings before doing this

VOTE: Firebringer

Dwlee

, I disgrace your spirit once again.

Still open to changing onto

Toog/A50

but I think this is best both on consens and how I view this game.

2)Your skitter/Fire interactions feel like distancing when it doesn't matter and defenses when it does. Those interactions feel like scum behavior.
3) I keep saying that Dunn is an exception for the most part - your Dunn posts from memory (I'm not looking them up now) were good, I just think that he was an acceptable bus to you at the time whereas skitter's slot was a lot less so given that HQ/Tamora was already almost certainly not going to cross.

I didn't know that you spent pink mostly 1v1ing skitter. Maybe that part's not valid, you can go over it if you want but you didn't want to go over pink PT stuff earlier and I doubt it'll change my opinion on your play as a whole

VOTE: Yay

[Gammagooey]

I didn't know that you spent pink mostly 1v1ing skitter. Maybe that part's not valid, you can go over it if you want but you didn't want to go over pink PT stuff earlier and I doubt it'll change my opinion on your play as a whole

actually, this part maybe isn't 100% true, it can at least be phrased better. I'm still going to find your skitter interactions sketch as hell I think probably regardless of what you say happened in the Pink PT. You not voting yourself to live before Ydrasse voted Nay is a significant point in your favor of the possibility of you being town, but it's not ultimately going to change my

vote

.

Why did I have to ask your permission to cross Fire or ask you to explain your scumread of Skitter in depth?

Isn't it more logical for you to explain why I'm wrong and elaborate rather than letting me misfire or perhaps, if you thought I was S/S, challenge me on this at the time?

You don't have to ask permission. And I did elaborate on skitter by casing her, I think after you voted her but again I'm not going to go check at the moment. It's just another more detailed way of saying I think your skitter interactions are bad when it counted. I didn't think you were scum then, and was putting pretty much every bit of effort into getting both of skitter+tamora left behind.

No you holding me to a standard of having good be correct about Skiiter without actually taking the initiative to combat them or me yourself reads like a partner interaction.

as I said, I did case skitter that event. And I don't think this is 100% fair to you to hound you about it when I thought you were town at the time, but I'm fine being a bit hypocritical if it means getting who I think is most likely scum eliminated by explaining why I think they're scum.

[Gammagooey]

Peta would it be bad form if I dug up last night's shit because I can't imagine Ggy-town making most of his posts?

your imagination is more depressing than I thought

I legit had a dream while waiting that Toog flipped

Edgy

Werewolf Lord

while we were waiting for the Shootin' Blind event to end so maybe think about some Grand Idea Mafia shenaigans sometime to help you out with that

I also have some legitimate advice for you in this situation or others like it in the future, but I think it borders a bit on being mean so if you'd rather not hear it I'm perfectly fine keeping it to myself to not tilt you.

[Gammagooey]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

[Gammagooey]

Gammagooey

is correct. I did in-fact play a key role in preventing a

Saber

nom in the Pink PT.

nice to know I was right about something at least

If you're town I absolutely don't expect you to believe me but I got everything I talked about from what you and everyone else from the Pink PT put in the thread. I quoted a few things from you in particular earlier, and would encourage anyone else to go skim through the early parts of the infinity/peta event's posting to see what they could infer about the Pink PT from everyone's descriptions of it.

feel a bit more content about everything than I did before tbh. Prob gonna smoke and clean my place for a bit. Holler if ya need me anyone

[Gammagooey]

yeah yeah you're ENERGIZED and KNOW THAT I'M SCUM and all that jazz we get it

As I said, if anyone wants to ask me how I came to any conclusions or talk to me about shit, I'll be around. otherwise I'll enjoy myself with other stuff.

[Gammagooey]

ok ngl reading this game is very inaccessible, does anyone have some juicy interactions with some flipped scum or some crunchy high tension gamestates they can suggest I go read over?

this game is war & peace except worse because it doesnt gave a cliffnotes page I can cram in a couple of hours

For the discerning reader, might I suggest: my iso
Full of 2-3 sentence posts and a svelte 121 posts long, you can find a perspective that finds one scum out of the gate and pushes hard to put two flipped scum (skitter/Firebringer and Harley Quinn/Tamora's Angel) in a lifethreatening event together! Will leave you satisfied without the bloat of an iso that drags on for hundreds of posts with spamposts and ANGY arguments between other players! (Optionally comes with an appetizer of the Blue Deliberation PT and a Heaven PT dipping sauce)

[Gammagooey]

Oh darling, just you wait

i mean

are you actually enjoying the interactions we're having at this point? If you are then keep on keeping on but otherwise I feel like we can drop the cheekiness and the emojis.

I'm just tired of the game at this point. no offense meant to Morning Tweet b/c I think the flavor and theme are amazing but everyone except Ydrasse and me feels like they're incensed and bitter in various different ways.
maybe incensed isn't the right word for it but some feeling of combining energized and outraged.

i'm doing fine tbh

Yeah exactly he knows how I'm so bad for town WIM that he just assumes so to posit himself before I case him

don't really know what you mean by positing myself

I was disappointed by Gemerald's replace-out and the interactions that led to it and I'm trying to not be an ass to you when you said I was tilting you earlier. I am glad that it seems like you're feeling better about the game than I thought though! Your case on me seems like it'd be satisfying to post & get out there regardless of your alignment.

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start,

let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately

and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing.

also, dude, how do you think scumteams work? people generally don't ask for permission before writing every post unless they're extremely lacking in self-confidence. the "throw a bunch of shade at your buddies to distance when it looks like you're going down" maneuver is super common. if that's the route someone getting piled on early goes, their team can't do much about it.

When I'm scum I usually try to make plans to make myself/other scumbuddies look good in the long-run, something like "try to distance each other early/mid-day but end on town wagons", or "X is our scumbuddy and is probably getting elim'd today, if you think you can jump their wagon without looking scummy for it then do it". For Taly I can imagine some potential discussions with skitter in a scum PT about how they wanted to interact and who they were going to push and why. For Gemerald I have a harder time imagining what a skitter/Gemerald convo in the scum PT would look like aside from early game.
And yeah I doubt this is going to convince you of Gemerald's innocence but this is more posting my thoughts on the game at this point than trying to convince people to see things my way.

[Gammagooey]

gawd sometimes i want to share my OPINIONS maaaaaaaan

[Gammagooey]

yeah Gemerald was at fault for bringing it up in the first place, but I can see where he was coming from even if I don't agree with him

your responses being "come at me" and "i don't respect people who try to invoke their mental health as a defense against being scumread" are valid but also more hostile than it needed to be to get across that you felt HQ's behavior was absolutely unacceptable.

[Gammagooey]

peta has dumped like a thousand pounds of quoted stuff from earlier in the game this event and a large amount of that relates to why he townreads Ydrasse.
One big chunk starts around here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13123035

I am less sure of Ydrasse-town (and I'm the one who put up Ydrasse/Taly as the possible elims for today if you're wondering, after being elected ruler in the Heaven PT) but do think a few of his points in there about Ydrasse seem valid. However, I want Taly-blood 100x more than I want Ydrasse-blood b/c I think Taly's interactions with skitter in particular feel like they're distancing when skitter can't be elim'd due to event rules and defending her & her replacement Firebringer in the next event when they were actually in danger. (among other things but it's in my iso if you want to read over and bug me about it)

Also if you're not phone-posting Ctrl+F Slaughter Hour in the Private Topics to find heaven/blue in there, if you don't see them you might need to bug Morning Tweet for access

[Gammagooey]

Oh. I can see the heaven pt. thank you, i hadn't made the heaven=blue connection.

no they're different PTs

[Gammagooey]

Also am I actually being an ass to Ggy? Definitely not intended to bother you in any way so far

I have a tendency to harp when I confbias But that doesn't weaken the integrity of my read imo

I'll give you distance if you feel it is best

nah you're fine. Try not to spampost toooo much while the worst is still trying to read and catch up tho if you don't mind

[Gammagooey]

I'll argue with ya'll about why I'm not scum when taly is dead if the game isn't over then

As for Harley hating me in particular aside peta I think it was because I (and I think peta too) was referencing Saber a lot when we were talking about our read on the slot instead of specifically talking about Harley Quinn. She had a post I think near when she replaced out saying that she didn't like people talking about her while not addressing her directly.

[Gammagooey]

also i got the sense that gammagooey doesn't actually give a shit about anything i'm posting and isn't really reading it to evaluate it

would be really funny if there was a reason for not caring

literally everyone except me is basically working on the assumption that taly is going to flip town at this point and I think that's a wrong assumption, but it's going to be proven one way or another regardless of what I do at this point

I'm very capable of going over and discussing things after the flip. I'm here to have fun playing mafia and no offense but going through literal pages of quote-walls aint it

[Gammagooey]

like honestly

say whatever shit you want about me and I can deal with it

just don't try to convince ydrasse to sacrifice herself to spite theoretical-scum me and I'll be fine with it

[Gammagooey]

I'll argue with ya'll about why I'm not scum when taly is dead if the game isn't over then

As for Harley hating me in particular aside peta I think it was because I (and I think peta too) was referencing Saber a lot when we were talking about our read on the slot instead of specifically talking about Harley Quinn. She had a post I think near when she replaced out saying that she didn't like people talking about her while not addressing her directly.

at this point I just think it's you. if it isn't you, and it isn't Taly, taking the sidelines just because you're getting the elim you want is exactly what will let a deeper wolf in ydra/peta/me take the game away.

I've been in the game for a while now and already read and re-read over huge chunks of it. My plan for tomorrow if I was wrong today was basically to go over peta a bit more b/c I'm 90+% sure that he's town but I should do due diligence to make sure that the HQ interactions with him weren't much more one-sided than I remembered to make sure it wasn't "HQ is incredibly shitty, peta legit thinks it's shitty but makes the best of it as scum regardless", but I think that's Incredibly unlikely just given how many times he's mentioned it and how insistent he is that it was unethical on HQ's part.

After that, go over Ydrasse & GE (your slot) and ask Ydrasse about several things they did/thought about through the game, because I've got a pretty solid idea on how I feel about GE's play that's not going to change much with re-reading. If Ydrasse is feeling up to it I can start with that now, but she's been sick for the last 2 weeks and I didn't want to make her deal with literally hundreds of pages of this game as opposed to Taly just likely flipping scum and us winning and not having to deal with anymore.

As for my play, frankly I think I have literally the best iso out of any player in this game in terms of scumhunting. Ydrasse and peta have been here the whole time and don't seem to have any questions about my thoughts/reasons for doing things, but I'm assuming you haven't gotten through most of the game yet? If you do have any questions or want me to explain my perspective on anything, I'd love to answer.

As for right now, frankly my play today has been mediocre and I'm kind of fine with that. I'm not a spamposter, I've said the things that I've wanted to say and shared my thoughts on the game, and I feel mostly done with it. Peta I feel like has gone deep enough into everything to confbias him first on Gemerald, and now me with a side of recency bias because yeah my play this event is mediocre. But he is right in that all the answers to the game are in past events, and everyone just has to go through and figure out what they think of it all and why. I just feel like I've done that already and everything at this point is just running around trying to become more and more confident in something I'm ultimately not going to be 100% confident in no matter how much I read over it, and I'd rather just make my decision(s) based on everything I've gone over already and if I'm wrong then that's fine and I can move on, whether that be the elim today into tomorrow or the game as a whole.

[Gammagooey]

VOTE: NAY

this is my symbolic protest vote

Do you TRY to be a douchebag to everyone you think is scum?

Literally the ONLY THING I've asked for is to make sure Taly dies today, and if I am scum then both ydrasse and taly would have to be town

If Taly lives through this game it's going to be the most disappointing fucking game of the year for everyone involved except him

[Gammagooey]

Just fucking why
Why bother changing your vote at all except to be dismissive of everything that I've tried to express and talk about today and say 'Not only so I think you're scum, I'm doing this to spite you'

[Gammagooey]

Taly being the elimination is the only thing I care about today and I've made that pretty clear. Yeah you unvoting is petty and 90+% of the time it doesn't matter and that's the entire point of doing it

I have more to say but I'm in the middle of D&D. Just maybe try playing in a way so that people might enjoy playing with you

[Gammagooey]

man i'm actually fucking mad now that you chose to pull that card

you saw the shit i got put through this game and you're calling me a douchebag for how

I

play

do you have any idea how poorly that comes across?

Maybe you can read what I said back post-game, still probably being angry, and think about the fact that I meant it. It probably is an overreaction to that post in particular, but I do fucking mean it.

This is not me being angry at you for calling me scum, this is the equivalent of me at a bar pulling you aside and asking you why you're acting this way to everyone there.

To be diplomatic, I'll say that I also would prefer not to play with Harley Quinn again. But you're treating people like mafia/scum first instead of showing some damn empathy and trying to understand where other players are coming from as PEOPLE, not as their alignment, and it's fucking stupid.

I would rather play a 50 page game that was light and jokey and fun in but lost than deal with a game that was 250/300+ pages and win. Maybe you've noticed, but today has largely stopped being fun for me. I would have been super happy to talk to you or Gemerald or even Taly in the Heaven PT about who ya'll were suspecting then and take that into account when I got to do *ruler stuff*, but instead it was 3 pages long with me being the only person who actually talked about who potential scum in the PT could be, and today has been every single player in the game dismissing my strongest read because they're probably going to die in the event already. And now there's what, a dozen pages or so of me feeling ignored and generally shat on for my choice after the fact instead.

I can deal with that, but let me tell you, it's not fun. I'm obv not thrilled about Taly/you thinking I'm scum, but it's a mafia game, if you can't deal with that you shouldn't play mafia.

I've read over your quotewall posts peta, and I've responded to the pieces I thought I could add meaningingfully to. You've posted I think about or over TWO HUNDRED times since the start of this event with absolute fucking walls of quotes that I've already read through earlier in the game. I do not want to spend hours of my life that could be spent actually enjoying myself going through them further and dissecting the individual points where I think you're being reasonable and the other points I don't agree with and have no/little change in either the game-state or in my opinions on the remaining players. If you have/had concise parts that you wanted my comments in particular on then I can do that, as I've said to The Worst already. If not, then say whatever you want people to read, let the worst catch up and share any opinions he wants to air, and then let's move on. I offered to replace into this game to try to make the game better and enjoy the events - both of those goals are largely not happening at this point, I'm not going to participate in the game to a level anywhere close to yours when it's not fun to play in.

And finally, MAYBE you've also noticed that I've tried to keep everything light and tried to be diplomatic with people even when I think they're scum and/or when they're scumreading me. I don't want to deal with other people's emotional outbursts, I don't particularly like getting overly emotional about the game myself. All I fucking want is an game where people can enjoy talking to each other and have fun and consider each others opinions EVEN if they think the other person is scum, and you've been the cause of three replacements so far. (maybe like...2.2 if we factor in how likely HQ was going to replace out in that situation even with another randomized playerlist) Don't call people a "fucking slimeball" if you're going to get legitimately angry when someone says you're acting like a douchebag. I'm tired of the game, I'm tired of you expecting me to be as invested in it as much as you given the game-state, and I'm tired of your behavior this game making it less fun for multiple people. Just treat people better in future games, and if/when you do wind up elim'ing me or the game ends I'd rather you consider why I felt this way instead of just complaining about my shitty play.

[Gammagooey]

And I feel it's a misrepresentation to tell him that nobody in the PT was willing to speak game with you because I certainly was and actually did. I've even made posts directed to you THIS EVENT that wasn't solely trying to disdredit your POV and wanted to dissect your thought process more and you've yet to interact with it or any interpretation of my gameplay that has been in good faith.

In Heaven PT, We talked about why you said you weren't scum, and briefly discussed interactions with Dunn you thought might make me reconsider my read on you like pushing for Dunn/Cakez and why Dunn wasn't 'concreteted in uselessness' as I mentioned, and you asked Gemerald why he wanted you to be the ruler. I guess you also mentioned that you didn't trust Gemerald's perception day 1? Basically all of it I just processed as "Taly defending himself". I guess I should have either gone into more detail on why I thought you could be potential scum then when you mentioned that you didn't see evidence contradicted TA/Cakez scum or gone over more people than just you, but I did mention multiple times that yeah I did think TA is going to flip scum no matter what and I did think Cakez had a strong chance of being scum.

For today, I could have more thoroughly responded to a few things (I'll go over the Pink PT thoughts in a minute, I remember you mentioning that in particular), but honestly how and why are you expecting me to go through and respond to all of your posts when you've also flooded the thread and have nearly THREE HUNDRED posts this event? Literally more than twice the number I have THE ENTIRE GAME SO FAR? I've even asked you a couple of things that would up getting ignored on your end too like why you didn't follow through on your Cakez read on the crossing (though I did forget about it and then feel like an idiot when I realized you were talking about potentially going over it later as opposed to thinking you were conflating it with another thing being talked about at the time).
I'd also like to know why you seemed to stop mentioning/pushing your previous scum read on skitter for the crossing event.
And for what, the 4th time I've said this to different people? If you want me to respond to one of your posts, @me with what you want me to respond to so I don't have to dig through literally hundreds of posts to find it. Don't make a train of shitposts about my play and then expect me to find exactly what you want an actual response to in the middle of it instead of me shrugging it off as "ok Taly's spamposting about me being scum again". I feel like that at least is a reasonable ask.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Pink PT, I thought you were likely pretty influential there for a couple of reasons. First, you were pretty clearly the one of, if not the most active player(s) in the game thread before it split into PTs. That alone meant that you were likely to be a major part of the conversation there and your reads and opinions that you put forward there would get at least seriously discussed, unlike say Toog who I thought was likely to post like 4 times in there and for other people to likely gloss over his reads. Second, basically everyone at least commented about the Pink PT, even if they didn't go into detail, and all of them seemed to either think Saber was scum OR have a positive opinion of you - infinity+skitter both said they wanted saber, and you initially said that skitter campaigned for it (and I quoted this before), dwlee talked about how you and him pocketed each other in there, you said that Toog was willing to sheep either of skitter or you, and that only leaves Ulya as *not enamored with Taly but also didn't want Saber lynched*, and she commented on how she wanted Cakez and could have had it if you had joined her on that (and that you could have had any wagon you wanted that had an existing vote):

I was the only person who actively campaigned for Cakez, Ulya made the vote later in the phase but peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

? the vote that ended up being seniority vote for petapan was placed by toogeloo sometime after i voted for sircakez, when i voted sircakez you were voting ydrasse but shortly thereafter unvoted, had you actually wanted sircakez and voted there at this time sircakez would have been the nomination,

so

?

Yeah also i dont remember taly wanting cakez, he was pushing ydra a whole lot

Because I didn't know

Cakez

had any traction until

Ulya's

vote.

And by that point, I had already aligned with

Dwlee's

POV of the game more and wanted to consolidate there.

Also I misinterpreted what seniority meant.

Thought

Ydra

was still going to be the nom.

you were one of the two votes on ydrasse so moving to any other wagon with an existing vote would have always given that wagon the edge

If you had wanted Saber, or even been ambivalent on Saber, I think it's pretty clear from that it could have happened just from Skitter+Infinity+Toog, since Toog was willing to sheep either you or skitter from your post about him.

My interpretation of this post from you was that skitter was actively pushing for Saber to be put up, and that you in particular requested that Saber not be the nomination for that event. Apparently infinity was actually pushing it harder than skitter, but I thought skitter was pushing it hardest from your post, and that you stepping in to prevent a scum from bussing another was very likely to come from you as a skitter/saber scumbuddy.

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

[Gammagooey]

Ready for

Saber/skitter/Gamma/Gypyx

to say something to me so my mind doesn't block them into the same category of

"build that

taly

-towncase while he spirals."

Ggy

, for funsies, how do you interpret this exchange?

read over the posts in context, editing it down to the first & last posts for a slight improvement in readability

skitter

, who should

unwnd

duel with?

Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.

I got a curfew.

Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?

I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you

Taly

ASAP."

I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote

VOTE: Dunn

Teamwork makes the dreamwork.

Dunn

, do something.

Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)


And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool

Skitter's posting about other things and you come in with the question, probably not a planned interaction. You're voting Cakez atm, and you're trying to get a wagon formed with skitter. Dwlee from skitter feels like a relatively lazy 'this is my biggest scumread comment', and you've publicly said that you're confident that Dwlee is town prior to this, you can't go back on it regardless of your alignment there I think.
Skitter suggests Dunn after you rebuff the Dwlee option, you go on it and tell Dunn to do something, skitter posts that a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool to reinforce that she's fine with Dunn to distance, and you go to bed.

From skitter, it's just distancing Dunn and try to get my slot elim'd by continuing to push on it as she has been. From you it's harder to parse - I'm clearly biased in my thinking of how I view your slot already, but it feels like you're just interacting with skitter as though you view her as town here - if you're town you're trying to work with her, and if you're scum you're trying to give her a chance to interact with you and come out looking a little better for it without diving too deeply into skitter's Dwlee read.
You leave immediately afterwards and your next posts that happen around the same time as skitter is many pages later (but probably just the next day sometime, there are so, so many posts in such a short time period for so much of this game) is this:

@uwnnd at this point these are the issues i have with your slot:
(galron bits you admittedly cannot respond to, but i'm being exhaustive)
- galron's day1 was very lackluster: he never got into the game, and his willingness to hammer gamma despite that + not having a read on him felt very premature and oppurtunistic
- still somewhat baffled how your entering pov of the game makes sense, coming into the game and using your own opposing wagon as anchor to get into it is pretty ???
- feel like you were pretty disingenuous with ydra last night in an effort to push her
- now you're using quite a lot ate to get out of being in the duel, and trying a lot of other pushes to see if something will stick

and just altogether i'm having a hard time seeing your slot being town rn

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia

I think they're being protected by scum

. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

The bolded is the epitome of my fear this game but presented from an outside perspective with seemingly incomplete knowledge of my slot.

What unsettles me is that you don't reach any conclusion of my alignment from this information. Am I townblocking with my scumteam or am I good slot to parrot and WK as town for later game WIFOM?

On one hand, I can sympathize and appreciate your POV, on the other - this is the only time you've directly spoken about my slot. So its hard to gauge whether your suspicion is natural.

You are correct about one thing.

I am not a player to take at face value.

Which feels like yes, you are pushing Dunn, but you're nudging people in unwnd's direction at the same time with skitter.

@Taly - Can you elaborate on your read on skitter at the time? Did you want to work with skitter specifically at the time or was it just that she was online and you wanted to get something going?

[Gammagooey]

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

I just don't get why you'd say that Skitter was personally campaigning for it when skitter was more focused on two other people? Like her pushing on Unwnd slot I can totally imagine b/c she was clearly tunnelling on the slot for ages.
But you posted that around the time that skitter and infinity and I think Ulya were all around and none of them contested it saying something like 'no, skitter was much more focused on unwnd/peta' or 'no, skitter barely pushed Saber at all', and Ulya did contest that you were pushing on Cakez. From what you're saying now it's not what actually happened, but prior to your explanation of what was going on in the Pink PT it felt like you either STRONGLY opposed the Saber wagon or you only said that Skitter was pushing Saber to try to make whichever of skitter/Saber lived longer look better when the other one of them flipped.

No, I disagree with both the assertion that the Pink PT had a net positive view of me or the idea that everyone in the PT was absolutely set on

Saber

-scum outside of

Infinity

who voteparked throughout the PT.

Skitter

entered the Pink PT with THIS being her hierarchy of least wanting to vote to MOST.

Gamma

-->

Cakez

-->

Ydrasse

-->

Gypyx

-->

Saber

-->

peta

-->

UNWND

And what did she do with this?

She contested my

Ydrasse

-case, said she wouldn't vote

Cakez

despite AGREEING that I believed

Cakez/unwnd

was T/S,

and she voted Peta mid-way into the PT and didn't move her vote at all.

It reads perfectly like she TMI'd you and

Saber

.

[Gammagooey]

I gotta go walk Donovan and make a sandwich, I'll be back in like 45 min

peta, I'm sorry for making you angry. This game event and you have really frustrated me and I felt like I needed to explain it and get it off my chest, but I could have been less shitty about it.

[Gammagooey]

Wait when did I say

Skitter

campaigned for

Saber

?

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

oh my god taly I've quoted it like 5 times now

[Gammagooey]

that link is apparently to another link where it was quoted so here's the original if you want to look at context

Who in the pink room wanted Cakez or saber
Atp the best theory I can reconcile is that scum are basically all low-impact

I was the only person who actively campaigned for

Cakez

,

Ulya

made the vote later in the phase but

peta[/n] had seniority by this point if I remember correctly.

Most of everyone was OK with a

Saber

nom,

Skitter

personally campaigning for it. But I wanted to sort

Saber

directly this phase.

[Gammagooey]

Oh yeah

Skitter

had more content on a

Saber

nom than

Infinity

but she never voted the there and stuck to

peta

Then at the last second

Infinity

voted

Gmagooey

when

Ulya

was on there

But

Ulya

unvoted and jumps on

Gypyx

at the literal last minute

And I was pretty much MIA at this point because I was tired of that shit

So that's how Pink PT concluded definitively and I'm reminded how embarrassing my play was there

can you at least understand better now given that quote why I thought that a)skitter was pushing on Saber and b)why I thought someone stepped in to stop a Saber-nom given that from my PoV it didn't seem hard to get all of Infinity+skitter+Toog on Saber and that you were the most likely person to do it since you said in that quote that you wanted to sort Saber during the event instead instead?

[Gammagooey]

@Taly- What did you find towny from HQ's posts once the crossing started? I'll admit that though I was a bit similar in saying her posts were "townier than the previous event but still worth elimming", that was really only technically true because her content beforehand was non-existent or knee-jerk reads based on nothing that looked even worse and she looked like she was lashing out at anyone who was scumreading her and I wanted to soften the post a bit.

Still unsure of my order.

I know I want

ydra/peta/gammagooey

to cross later than sooner but if we go with

Toog's

plan, then I end up with less than 4 being uncrowded.

Mmm.

the math on this seems wrong
(me, toog, dwlee, cakez) + (ydra, peta, ggy) + you = 8 people crossing, leaving (ulya, skitts, HQ, gypyx)
is there anyone in that last group you TR? If not I'm gonna mark those down as the ones you don't want to cross so I can have an entry from you in my spreadsheet I'm using to math out the consensus of who gets left out

Ulya's

been the longest running townread, may change upon analysis but as I am skimming

Dunn's

ISO, he likely TMI'd her.

My scumread of

HQ

is based on a meta-take that I don't think digressing is beneficial, and I don't even want to admit it because I'm still thinking about how much it actually fits in reality and I do not want anybody to influence my progression on this.

I can actually see a

Prism

-scum narrative but think it's unlikely, I just dislike

Gypyx's

ISO and feel kind of weird how he became an overnight universal scumread.

why nobody want me to cross and potentially fall to an anticlimactic death

if you answer my question I'll vote for you

Kind of feels weird you want to bargain with me on this but oh well.

Wait, what? When did that happen? I’m very disappointed in you in that case.

haha, I don't want to face his AtE.

My scumread is not new, the reasons changed from surface-level

"me no like

saber

/ me no like entrance"

And I don't even want to assert it because you've made towny posts this phase, the main thing is that I think you're a strong scum player and do not know where your range ends.

I don't think I can give a reliable answer on who I want uncrossed until we do like... 3 crosses at least, and I'm honestly sus on people who think I should give one.

But I haven’t done that.

Did not say you did.

[Gammagooey]

I do understand you better

Ggy

but that doesn't change my case on your accusation being in congruent to what you would otherwise know.

But yeah I get you.

Obv I don't expect you to change your mind completely, but can you give like a 1-2 sentence summary of what you think the leap of logic is that I made that I couldn't have made as town? As far as I can tell it's just
"But I wanted to sort Saber directly this phase." (from you) -> "I think you prevented the Saber nom" (from me). The wrong assumption by me that skitter was pushing harder on Saber than any of her other reads and the mention of Toog being willing to sheep either you or skitter also pushed me harder in that direction, but I don't see why you'd think it's impossible to come from town, even if you think it's more likely to come from scum.

Also I mentioned this a bit earlier but I'd like some details if you have time, what made you change your mind about skitter being potentially scum from the nomination event to the crossing event? The only thing I remember (there's prob at least a bit more than I don't recall atm) about your thoughts on skitter specifically was you saying something like "the lowering of skitter's WIM looks genuine", but I don't get why you thought that or why that would make skitter more likely town to you then.

[Gammagooey]

I do understand you better

Ggy

but that doesn't change my case on your accusation being in congruent to what you would otherwise know.

But yeah I get you.

Obv I don't expect you to change your mind completely, but can you give like a 1-2 sentence summary of what you think the leap of logic is that I made that I couldn't have made as town? As far as I can tell it's just
"But I wanted to sort Saber directly this phase." (from you) -> "

I think you prevented the Saber nom

" (from me). The wrong assumption by me that skitter was pushing harder on Saber than any of her other reads and the mention of Toog being willing to sheep either you or skitter also pushed me harder in that direction, but I don't see why you'd think it's impossible to come from town, even if you think it's more likely to come from scum.

Nope. You can't backtrack this.

I'm not going to get past your play in regards to the pink PT and how you prevented a Saber nomination that scum was pushing for

Your post here didn't convey that you

"you thought"

it was framed as a strongly believed assumption.

And yes, I still find it hard to believe it comes from town even with the context, because you built a case that I'm scum without actually validating your suspicion for doing so when you could've.

And let's still assume that everybody was sold on a

Saber

nom, I alone couldn't have gatekeeped that because I wasn't voting at the Pink PT's conclusion to counteract that nor was I an advocate for

Peta

, who

Skitter

was voting.

And let's also dive into the hypothetical that

Skitter

was voting

Saber

and wanted her to be nom'd, why would there be an S/S theatre for

Skitter/I

to disagree on a bus and then it never be brought up again?

The window for checking how valid the case was without guesswork kinda closed when Ulya died, and I thought it was more likely that you were just town before Heaven/Hell happened. There's no way for me to verify that what you're saying is true in regards to it, and though you're probably keeping the majority of it truthful even if you're scum, there is/would be an opportunity to change some details to either make yourself look better or discredit what I'm saying about the Pink PT - once you were the only person left from Pink it has to be assumptions and guesswork based on previous descriptions for me to figure out what happened there - like I don't know if you're telling the truth in saying that skitter never voted Saber, or that you forgot that you said that skitter was campaigning for her and had to add to your description of the Pink PT after the fact.

My best guess of what happened was infinity+skitter were pushing for Saber, Ulya was pushing Cakez as she mentioned, Dwlee was willing to follow you based on his posting on you two pocketing each other, Toog had a townread on skitter+you and would follow either (again based on his posting about the Pink PT in the main thread) and you weren't sure of who to vote but said something like "I think Saber usually does X as scum and hasn't done it yet" or "Saber usually loses momentum/does Y+Z after a scum lynch if she's scum, I want to see how she acts during the next event" and then at least partially because you were influential but not solid on any particular wagon, just solid on wagons you didn't want to happen, the Pink PT wagons mostly fell apart and wound up with the peta nom, you not voting, and the rest of the votes being scattered. And also at least one or two people wanted Ydrasse to be the nom based on someone saying that they thought Ydrasse was the only other wagon they thought could have happened in Pink PT at the end.

p-edit: hey the worst, I have like 2 more sentences to type up to Taly and then I'll be good

@Taly - thanks for slowing down and talking with me a bit, it was a welcome relief from the rest of this event and I appreciate it.

[Gammagooey]

And let's also dive into the hypothetical that

Skitter

was voting

Saber

and wanted her to be nom'd, why would there be an S/S theatre for

Skitter/I

to disagree on a bus and then it never be brought up again?

It would just be so that Saber/Skitter look less likely to be scum partners, while still making sure that Saber doesn't actually become a possible nomination and elim a scum member (I do think she would have been elim'd over Infinity). I feel like the scumteam's position would have been a more precarious during the crossing and they would have wanted to stop mentioning each other as much as possible scum then, but off the top of my head the main reason I have for that is "because I suspected and was pushing scum at the time" so maybe that's a dumb opinion for me to have.

anyway, thanks again for the chill convo. may you find peace and good dogs in whatever afterlife lies beyond heaven & hell Taly

[Gammagooey]

11 more posts until 1000 guys!

I feel like ydra allowing us to beetlejuice her should mean something but mostly its just funny atp

well thats definitely not my problem anymore

no plz this is already too many im gonna drown

too many pooostssssss

[Gammagooey]

Ay, I'm around, I'll be typing up a defense of why I wouldn't do some of things I've done as scum(with the biggest I think being pushing skitter as hard, quickly, and persistently as I did) for a bit.

After a day or so of the Taly-vote getting locked in and Taly still slamming me when I mentioned I was still considering the possibility Ydrasse scum, I got the idea that Taly-scum just still had a sabotage saved and was going to stop the elim on himself at the end of the event. I didn't want to mention it beforehand because I didn't think that GE/The Worst in particular would go through with that, so if it happened I'd have a better chance of getting people to follow through with yeeting Taly even if peta was still insisting on GE by pointing that out and insisting on elims of Taly+me. I thought that peta was overthinking pretty much everything and that Taly still was really the only person who fit with skitter scum as trying to lead the scumteam to victory in an endgame given my other reads.

[Gammagooey]

Starting with stuff from the Blue PT when I first replaced in - within an hour and a half of joining I'm already voting skitter based on her posting from around pages 20-23, and about 6 hours after joining I point out that skitter flooding out a page of posts to distract from the Dunn wagon seemed to go unnoticed by everyone at the time.

This is the scum PT from my most recent scumgame: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11817596
As you can see from my literal first post in it, I generally prefer being town to scum, but I was happy to get to play as scum with VP Baltar since I hadn't gotten to play with him in ages. I also share my "reads" and make plans with my scumbuddies, and generally try to play pretty cautiously as scum and let town eat themselves whenever possible.

On one hand, yes, I am a decent player and I'm capable of changing up my play based on who I'm playing with, the current game-state, or just for shits and giggles (though the "for shits and giggles" changes I do a lot more often as town than scum).
But if I were scum HERE, where I would have been scum with the player who was the main reason why my team didn't win Team Mafia 2020, AND it seems like everyone in the Blue PT seems to be townreading her (on a brief skim I see townreads from Cakez, peta, and Gemerald, as well as scum-Saber) why on earth would I IMMEDIATELY start bussing her in particular and pointing out something that puts a ton of doubt on her? It would have been far easier and far saner to roll with that, work with skitter to snow everybody, and much more fun to do that than to relentlessly bus her into the ground.

In addition to that, until last event I don't think I seriously pushed a town player once. I've been around long enough to know that it's WEIRD and eye-drawing to do that, and I don't think my scumplay generally stands up well over sustained scrutiny. The only town player who I think you could even argue I pushed for from my replace-in until the Heaven PT is Toog, and even with him I think I made it pretty clear that it was *he can step up and play the game with everyone or he can get thrown in a woodchipper before endgame*, and I was perfectly willing to let him or basically ANYONE else through the crossing in exchange for getting two scum left behind. I don't think I'm fantastic at pushing town as scum, but I can and will sure as hell try when I think it benefits me or my team, and I did nothing of the sort for an enormous swath of the game. I did my best to engage with people who I thought disagreed with my reads like Cakez, with my scumread of Skitter, and with my townreads (during the crossing) of Taly & Ulya to try to get Ulya to see better where I thought Taly was coming from.

And one last thing - I like to try to keep my posting short and succinct so a) I'm actually readable late-game and b) so the game doesn't turn into a miserable slog. And I think if you go through it I think you can tell where I'm coming from just about every post at least through the entire crossing + Heaven & Hell, even if I was kind of an idiot tunneling on Taly afterwards and dealing very poorly with being flooded out of the game with the 30 pages of wallposting+spamposting from last event.

[Gammagooey]

Also, in regards to my GE read yesterday - every time I went back to consider the possibility of him being scum, this posts in particular made me shrug it off and leave him as town.

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

So here's the thing: I mentioned you come off like in that True Love game because on a lark I read that one over because I was also curious if you'd ever misread town!me (and you did, in that game) and you had the scum towards the middle of your reads in that game, while consistently push the T/T pairs. You ended up getting miseliminated which took scum!creature out with you. I think things are lining up in such a way that this game has become a near perfect replication of the trajectory of that game. As such, the midzone of your reads list is honestly where I'd want to kill in the most rn. (Cakez, skitts, toog, peta) are the full list of names I sus based on this conclusion, so I'd very much like to vote out peta here. If that is unappealing to everyone else though, I'd like to try something else, though idk how the math for this would even work, where we deliberately split the votes so it's scum's choice who dies, thus allowing NKA to be done.

can we just only try to eliminate mafias like i know we got one in the duel and that was entire goal and what i spent day fighting for, so let's just do that again pushing only for most likely not like, let the scum make choices for information!

I am firm in my belief infinity is town. If enough people think peta is also town, I'd rather force scum to make the call as that's more informative.

I don't think I've ever seen a scum player aside from Titus ever try to get away with "let's give the scum an obvious and clear benefit instead of trying to elim scum" like this. From my perspective it's borderline universally angry townies who are so convinced in their worldview that they want to prove it to everyone even when it's clearly and obviously better to try to elim scum in case you're wrong in your reads. I'm going to go over some more posts from GE+Ydrasse but probably not until tonight.

----------------------------------------------------
@Ydrasse- Could I get a few thoughts on the game from your perspective? Skipping over last event and going over previous stuff would be fine, maybe what you thought of skitter early game, how scum interacted with you in particular and why you think they treated you the way they did, anything else that you think is weird/insightful that you think has been overlooked so far would all be fine.

[Gammagooey]

yeah, that's fair

I've reread the first 25 pages and checked a few Ydrasse/skitter interactions - I could share where I'm leaning now with a few details but it seems like you'd prefer my thoughts after I'm done going through stuff, which I should have time to type up tomorrow evening/night.

[Gammagooey]

Off work and starting to type up an actual post from my mess of notes, dunno if I'll be completely done with what I want to say in ~an hour but if I'm not I'll at least find a good stopping point and just make it a multi-poster.

[Gammagooey]

Not super happy with this yet but it's a start at least.

Let's start with this - I think Gamma Emerald is/was more likely to be scum here than Ydrasse, and if you think that peta is scum you're the worst (the player, not the adjective) and you still haven't read through large chunks of the game yet.

But, there are two posts that I either previously thought Gemerald was incredibly town for (the first post) or that looked town enough on my reread last night+this morning (the second post) that I immediately went back to recheck Ydra/skitter's isos together because I thought they were Strongly indicative of Gemerald town.

The first I mentioned earlier this phase:

Spoiler: Gemerald after Infinity nom posts

Also, in regards to my GE read yesterday - every time I went back to consider the possibility of him being scum, this posts in particular made me shrug it off and leave him as town.

How much have your reads changed since this point, if at all? How would you rank the players in an exact order of towniest to scummiest rn?

{gamma}
{taly, ydrasse, ulyana}
{cakez, skitt, toog}
{peta, gooey, dwlee}
{gypyx, saber}

i guess this is it, ordered from t->s within the tiers. toog moved up from good posting in the pt, dwlee moved up after thinking about it more because i think i believe their scumread on me, unwnd i felt was being genuine in ex. his interaction with taly towards the end of the last phase, he was trying to solve even though it looked like he was gonna die.

So here's the thing: I mentioned you come off like in that True Love game because on a lark I read that one over because I was also curious if you'd ever misread town!me (and you did, in that game) and you had the scum towards the middle of your reads in that game, while consistently push the T/T pairs. You ended up getting miseliminated which took scum!creature out with you. I think things are lining up in such a way that this game has become a near perfect replication of the trajectory of that game. As such, the midzone of your reads list is honestly where I'd want to kill in the most rn. (Cakez, skitts, toog, peta) are the full list of names I sus based on this conclusion, so I'd very much like to vote out peta here. If that is unappealing to everyone else though, I'd like to try something else, though idk how the math for this would even work, where we deliberately split the votes so it's scum's choice who dies, thus allowing NKA to be done.

can we just only try to eliminate mafias like i know we got one in the duel and that was entire goal and what i spent day fighting for, so let's just do that again pushing only for most likely not like, let the scum make choices for information!

I am firm in my belief infinity is town. If enough people think peta is also town, I'd rather force scum to make the call as that's more informative.

I don't think I've ever seen a scum player aside from Titus ever try to get away with "let's give the scum an obvious and clear benefit instead of trying to elim scum" like this. From my perspective it's borderline universally angry townies who are so convinced in their worldview that they want to prove it to everyone even when it's clearly and obviously better to try to elim scum in case you're wrong in your reads. I'm going to go over some more posts from GE+Ydrasse but probably not until tonight.

Frankly, I still see pretty little to fault with his play on that day and feel like even if he is scum here he played it pretty close to how he thinks he would have played it as town, and I still think 80/90+% of the time when someone suggests something as wild as "let's let scum decide who should die" it's going to be coming from salty town. I think it's not reasonable that he actually expected people to follow it as scum, but I can see a world where he wanted to emphasize his frustration with the infinity wagon as much as possible before ultimately backing down.

The second set of posts is here:

Spoiler: Gemerald+Saber posts

Unwnd what is your scumpool rn

I don't feel confident in giving something definitive

Just spit something out
I feel bad that you’re in this position but I don’t feel okay veto’ing you getting voted in, so instead I’m allowing you to pick a name to get voted in with you, I’d very much like if you didn’t pick someone I TR but if you firmly believe I’m wrong on someone I’m willing to listen, while I call it Cabd Clause you were also part of the hydra that made the comment that made that “a thing”. So I’m kinda willing to lend you my ear in that sense more than some others.

The least I can bargain is that I would still love to flip Saber/Cakez

I would say at one scum there, confidently

But matching any further doesn't seem proper

Okay, this is workable
If you+me vote one of them that’ll change things so they’re set to be part of the duel over Toog.

VOTE: Saber
I am okay with this.

I'm not reading this bye

Did you end up reading?

Nope

VOTE: Infinity

Why did you switch from unwnd to Infinity then?

My cakez read is not that he's in catchup mode. I'm not sure how that thought was lost in translation.

I was in the car thinking about how you think I'm theatrical Saber. In what way would that determine a read on me? My short answer remains but I'm pretty sure I just like to write. I lean into prose because that's what makes mafia fun to me. Thinking about concepts and wording and such. I'm capable of faking it as scum to my own credit.

Theatrical as in the motive I read behind certain things you post are to make you appear more like a contestant, you're putting in a lot of effort to appear transparent, like how you went through a whole progression on your Dunnstral read without any new Dunnatral content coming in and changing your opinion of him.

Lot more to read through which I'll get to soon.

For now: Gamma, what are your issues with me? As far as I can remember, it's because you disliked how I changed my opinion on you, but a lot of players saw the exact same things I did? Your contestant spew during the execution decision was the number 1 reason many including myself changed our minds, so I'm not sure why you're honing in on my progession being suspicious.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.

My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.

Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.

I feel sorta bad for unwnd because he's repped into a tough position and I think his frustration is genuine, but regardless I think he's a stagehand.

During his interaction with Ydrasse, he starts of by implying she would be a good candidate for the duel:

I have zero clue why you believe I'm scum

Last time we talked I was again towny

And it's not like you have your own data besides the one game we were scum together?

You give me a flip I want and you'll see that more

it hard to give to this because what i already laid out like you have to be TOWN upfront and the flip you want has to be NOT TOWN

I would like Infinity/Ydra

and I thought this initially looked very good for Gemerald until seeing that he really didn't follow through with it after that - he sits on the vote for a while and discusses other things regarding my slot (unwnd) and eventually jumps off to vote Toog. I don't think that's impossible for town to do either, but I can see scum-Gemerald doing some distancing with Saber and then leaving it there without seriously pushing it and let the rest of the very fast-paced game blow by and ignore it. There was one follow-up with Ulyana not mentioned below justifying why he was voting Saber instead of trying to get S/S in the duel not mentioned below, but he doesn't actually focus on Saber to try to put a wagon together on her.

Spoiler: things after

Taly is a big question mark for me because they don't fit in my mind. This is a curious (?) where I don't think they're townie but also not null. They're a hard elimination and in my absolute tinfoil paranoia I think they're being protected by scum. I have less on the motivations of why, but I feel their presence to not be something that relieves me. Maybe it's their nature to weird, but I can't townread weird because something tells me that Taly is probably decent at his own weirdness and using it as a means to be townread. There's nothing entirely wrong with his approach but that alone makes me question because it is presented in such a processed and orderly manner where every appearance by him is very deliberate. It would be townie in another game but not this one, and not based on the events that have happened.

Expect a rebuttal on this in about 24 hours maximum

"Fateful Duel"

Event Rules

---

Decision 3.0.11

Toogeloo [5]:

Gypyx, Ydrasse, unwnd, SirCakez, Dunnstral

Dunnstral [4]:

Taly, Dwlee99, Infinity 324, petapan

unwnd [2]:

Saber, skitter30

Saber [1]:

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting [2]:

ulyana, Toogeloo

With 14 contestants remaining, it takes 8 votes to nominate a duelist.
The contestant with the second-most votes at majority or deadline will also be nominated. Plurality and seniority are in effect for both nominations.

The deadline for this decision is in:

(expired on 2021-10-19 17:07:18)

[/mech]

Now playing..

♫

Tia - Deal with the devil

♫
                        

▶ ❚❚ ────────────●──────────────────  1:58 / 4:44

                       

Cakez/Dunn ain't aligned so I'm cool with this

VOTE: Dunnstral

why
also VOTE: toogeloo

---------------------------------------------------------------------

skitter seems to want to position herself here as pushing Gemerald, and regardless of who is scum between Ydrasse/Gemerald/me she was trying to distance/bus Day 1 given this post:

Spoiler: skitters read post

ah here we go

Cephrir - scumvibes
petapan - feels weird. idk if that makes him scum necessarily but yeah
ulyana - probably town
Ydrasse - scum-ish
Saber - no thoughts
PookyTheMagicalBear - maybe town?
SirCakez - probably town
skitter30 - shining beacon of towniness, etc
Gypyx - had some townpings on prism, but she isn't a slot i can read confidentally. liked gypyx's entrance tho
Infinity 324 - still kinda weirded out by her lack of reaction to me voting her, and i think she's townreading me too easily
Toogeloo - honestly feels too clueless/unaware of what's happening to be scum
Galron - very underwhelmed thus far. was p easy to pick out town-him in radio buzz but not really seeing the same things here yet. could be because he hasn't caught up so i'll give this a little more time but right now feels kinda scummy
Dunnstral - forgot he's in the game
Dwlee99 - scum
Taly - townie
Gamma Emerald - scum

here's where i'm at ^

Infinity is scummy, skitter's post is less scummy, but if infinity is scum it reads like a way to distance without actually pushing. Also the gamma vote. Gamma probably is town

i find gamma scummier than infinity rn, but i am more than happy to vote infinity as well
(also the fact that infinity is not really responding to my read is, uh, Not Good)
why is gamma probably town?

and pedit @prism fair enuf.

i think prism comes off infinitely better than gamma in their spat
i'm kinda liking taly now too

Cephrir
ulyana
Ydrasse
PookyTheMagicalBear
skitter30
Infinity 324
Galron

I’m probably going to count on these people to help me keep a level head wrt Prism, because I think he’s in a similar spot Kyouko was in Radio Buzz so if they back that up I’ll basically just write off Prism as town until lategame

uh no offense but this basically looks like you're asking half the game to give you an out to back out of this fight

Gamma if you become King who would you execute in the PL right now

Cephrir
Prism I can see just being history repeating itself where I'm clashing with someone being over-confident I'm scum,

Cephrir meanwhile has taken steps beyond what should ever be considered good-faith attempts to get me eliminate

d.

No offense but i feel like ur kinda just making stuff up to see uf u can get one of these votes to stick

~
I forgot to say this earlier - while infinity and dwlee are both independantly scummy i dont think they make ssense together

And to me it feels more like making sure she'll come out of a Gemerald-flip looking good than a push on town given the amount of outs she gives herself for it along the way

i think the gamma tonal bits are probably nai fwiw

okay, that was slightly uncomfortable to read through
i'm basically tossing out today's incarnation of the prism/gamma thing because i think that most of it was nai and stemmed things other than their respective alignments

more holistically though, i do still think that gamma's early game was bad.
like, in radio buzz, i felt like his thoughts actually made sense and i was able to track his thought process from post to post and vote to vote
here his explanations for this votes and stances like don't really make sense and kinda contradict each other
VOTE: gamma

i would also vote dwlee

~
hi gypyx! i think your entrance is townie

~
hi galron! have you caught up yet? you said there were a few things you were going to read. did you do so?
i'm finding your content thru this point really underwhelming unfortunately

~
there's a couple of other things i wanna circle back to too

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

E-1

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

@galron like 3 posts on top of this u said u werenr sure if gamma is scum + u arent really caughr up / into the game yet. This intent is super premature in that context and doesnt really make sense

Ngl i'm starting to get some cold feet abt gamma
There's been like no resistance, the wagon comp keeps changing, and i dont like how people are popping out of the woodwork to vote him

---------------------------

This feels good for Ydrasse - the poking skitter does to her earlier I think could be directed at either town or scum, but this specifically like Ydrasse-town not getting why skitter is concerned with her given skitter's existing take on Gemerald given Ydra/Gemerald's interactions

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

ur voting gamma. u think he is scum. i was one of the first ppl to dig into him and actually get him to explain his reasoning which is why you are now scumreading him. why do i set up gamma like that

i did note that if he's scum you probably aren't but at this stage where we don't have any flips that isn't a reason to townread you

i don't remember how u were in that normal game, i was scum and also have actively expunged that from my memory, sorry
but i don't think you're that similar to radio buzz

pedit why does grilling gamma make you town?

ur voting gamma. u think he is scum. i was one of the first ppl to dig into him and actually get him to explain his reasoning which is why you are now scumreading him. why do i set up gamma like that

i did note that if he's scum you probably aren't but at this stage where we don't have any flips that isn't a reason to townread you

Zzz

If u say so but its just weird 2 me when i was the catalyst for like. not all of it but a decent chunk idk

maybe im just built different

----------------

This comment on scum stancing around him is correct, just not about Ceph -

Deciding to do ISOs on the non-Galron shot options as well
I really feel like Cephrir’s push on me doesn’t feel right. It feels like he’s stuck in a spot of

having

to push me, which kinda builds on the idea that scum were stancing up around me in different planned-out ways.

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

Do you think scum are involved with the Galron wagon, Saber?

Most likely. I think you're a stagehand and the Galron wagon is your buddies attempt to save you. Whether they're instigating it (skitter) or taking advantage of it (petapan amongst others) I'm unsure of though.

Or it's Galron and I'm wrong on you but that can't be the case because I'm incapable of being wrong.

kinda feel like you're calling galron *just scummy enough* that you can plausibly join that wagon too
like in a hedge-y sort of way

Nah, Galron may be dealing drugs on the side but Gamma is the shining stagehand. I implore you to vote him.

[Gammagooey]

skitter giving the same NAI cover to Saber later, context being this is RIGHT before infinity+taly both say Saber should have been the nom and skitter jumps on bussing her more intensely

saber's tilt is nai but her content is just kinda ~lacking~ tbh

this interaction with HQ is a ridiculous logic leap from Gemerald and a v. forced followup from HQ

Spoiler: Gemerald+HQ posts

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Nothing, your point?

Oh yes, your partner wound up being scum in that.

What’s your point in bringing that up?

???

Because it’s true?

Wut

What does it have to do with this game though?

Nothing, your point?

I recall thinking my partner was town this game, so it feels like you’re trying to discredit my judgment.

town THAT game

town THAT game

Well I did too, do you not remember my posts?

When skitter finally gets around to answering what I've been bugging her about since literally my first post in the main thread almost 1000 posts later (and I know you don't want much defense in here peta but I promise you that as scum I would bug her in the scum PT to answer way way sooner than that), Gemerald is the only read that gets largely skipped over instead of actually giving reasons for, which matches what she did D1 with both Dunn+Saber as "no thoughts/forgot they were in the game"

SKITTER can you give me like a timeline/summary of who you were suspecting and how strongly through events 1-3? (also I might just call them days 1 and 2 later because that feels correct to me)

I still want this when you have time btw. I don't really understand your read progression on either of peta or infinity at the moment and going through some of your thoughts about them (and any other strong reads) from previous days would help me out a lot with that

basically day1 i was mostly suspicious of your slot (the galron iteration) - he wanted to flip gamma without having a read there and wasn't really trying to solve, and felt just generally lacking as compared to radiobuzz . i didn't like unwnd's entrance, felt like he was trying to make cakez flippable, and felt like his approach to solving to the game didn't make much sense from a town-him's pov. i didn't really see the posting in the blue pt that people are raving about but your iteration seems a little bit better from what i've seen here.

infinity i was kinda suspicious of early game for not really trying to read me. in prior games they would make it a priority to try to solve me and would read me off of how i was trying to read them but that whole interaction/dance wasn't really happening this game, which made me somewhat suspicious because i thougth town-them would almost always do that, while scum-them would be a little too gun-shy to do that
i started feeling better abt her ~mid-day2 iirc because they were just kinda making good observations at the right time, and seemed to be trying to solve, and trying to help other people solve
and ultimately i don't think they end up on dunn eod there, i don't think they cast that vote to put a partner in the duel there

the other gamma is fairly obviously town from how he went about his decision in the chair phase.

cakez i've liked for most of the game despite a whole bunch of people trying to flip him earlier. his thinking was admittedly ~shallow~ but i think it was genuine and more a product of being busy he was irl - i liked how open he was about his thought processes, about how annoyed he was about how fast the game was moving, and he was just very guileless overall

peta i didn't really have thoughts on for most of day1, the phase where dunn got nommed i really didn't like his cakez push because i felt like he ought to have been townreading cakez by that point, and i didn't like how he dropped it in favor of dunn at the time that he did. i may have gotten a little tunneled, i realized over the night.

ydra i don't think interacts responds to unwnd's push on her the way she did as scum. there's no reason there for her to really have such an aggressive emotional response as scum, but i think it makes sense if she felt wrongly pushed as town and was annoyed

saber's slot has just kinda been around and just making kinda polished observations without follow-through and without really having an underlying thought process. kinda reminds me of scum-lilith in that way tbh. harley's entrance was focusing on the wrong things and was kinda scummy in that i think it's easier for scum to focus on mechancis in a game like this than figure out what their reads ought to be

i think those are some of the big ones

Also, skitter has basically NO direct interaction from her->Gemerald for the entire duel event. Gamma's wagon gets mentioned by skitter several times, and he comments on a few things she says, but I could only find one post from skitter where she actually interacts with him directly, one instance of giving Gemerald a ? between I think more than 1000 posts of duel posting from here:

Most vocal stagehand or suspicions from Pooky I can see are on Gamma, Dunnstral, and petapan. He also supported a S-S theory for the two leading wagons.

just gonna point out that even though i townread gamma at this point we technically we haven't really seen anything that disproves s/s

if they were actually svs wagons picking your partner and then sabotaging the flip is a great way to make you look unaligned in that situation

until after the next event had started. And just not interacting with your partner for a long while tends to be a pretty good tactic for scum so people don't find much damning content between partners in the event one flips, and I've used it myself in the past.

Spoiler: the one direct skitter post and a Gemerald post a bit after

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

Mindmelding is not as much of a towntell as the memes would suggest

?

wait what

whose consensus

Is this @ me
I already explained I kinda echo chamber’d myself

no it was me agreeing with ulayana's reaction

Then it’s still technically directed at me because she was responding to me

[Gammagooey]

@ggooey can you talk me through your decision to create the [taly,ydra] dichotomy yesterday? i'm aware you've cited a few posts of GEm's as unlikely to come from scum fypov but as far as i can tell these are principally tonal reasons?; can you expand any more on why you were/are suspicious of ydra or if there is more behind your read (former read?) on my slot?; you mentioned a motivation for that pairing because fypov eliminating the two of them was the path to victory. did you see a world where taly wasn't yesterday's elimination?

Imo (and I still think this, not just formerly), Ydras play has looked scummier than Gemerald's, EXCEPT for both of their respective interactions with scum players. My thoughts on potential Ydra scum are pretty simple - if she's scum, she did exactly what she claimed she could get away with earlier in the game, did whatever she wanted and townread her scumpartners without worrying about it. If there were somehow no scum flips and only one scum in this whole game, I'd vote Ydra over your slot without question, but those interactions I think point to your slot more than Ydra.

I mentioned a few other reasons why I thought Gemerald was town yesterday to peta here:

You were/are most likely town aside from myself

*this was talking about Gemerald*

excuse me, sir

nyeh heh heh

but also in addition to Gemerald's response to Infinity being wagoned. Does skitter take up the vast majority of page 50 single-handedly derailing a Dunn wagon that Gemerald started if they're both scum together? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13038098

Does Gemerald continue to try to set up a Dunn wagon as his alternative right before he gets nommed for the Throne of Execution? Does Gemerald waffle on skitter for a bit, leave her as a townread midgame, but ultimately decide to leave Firebringer when he could have brought him through instead of Cakez?

If you think so I'm genuinely interested in your reasons for those in particular

Once the day got going and Taly started tunneling on me for putting her up for elimination, I was very convinced in Taly-scum over any other possible scum in the game. Before/while choosing Taly+Ydra, I thought that it was possible that the rest of Heaven PT wouldn't want to flip Taly, but thought that eliming both players with 5 players left was the best choice and likely what was going to happen.

[Gammagooey]

gonna take a break for a while, will prob be back to typing up even more words in an hour and a half/two hours.

[Gammagooey]

This feels like scum trying to get cred mentioning that they were pushing Dunn as well as the currently unflipped Saber-scum, especially given that GE just made a post about Saber being probscum a few posts back. GE was pushing Toog both at the beginning of the event and didn't even care about the difference between Toog/Dunn when they were being put up together at the event. There were a few Dunn-sus posts in the middle but they're pretty outshadowed by his posts on Toog, AND it wasn't even really pushing Saber vs Toog, he said he didn't want to veto unwnd being put up (though tbf I think a townread on unwnd is pretty strongly implied by GE through it) and it was setting up an unwnd+Saber duel.

Another inconsistency with Skitter's "infinity is town because Dunn vote!" Thing when I voted Dunn way before that and was pushing him to be part of the duel very hard

Actually yeah

You and I WERE the strongest pushers on

Dunn

Event 2.

I’m pretty sure most of the time I was pushing Dunn as well
I did try to put Saber against Toog at one point but that was because unwnd wanted a saber flip

Spoiler: context quotes for the above

sus of Saber right before the unspoilered post

Dunn gets in duel with or without infinity

That raises another question: with Saber probably being scum, scum!finity would have been shifting the wagon into their buddy earlier?

GE pushes/suspicions/etc from duel day involving Dunn/Toog

Actually now that I think about it lurkscum does feel like the “right” choice
So I’d maybe say Dunnstral/Toog/Ydrasse are the best options from an objective POV
unwnd I need to see how he plays but I wouldn’t have advocated putting Galron in under this logic
Btw this isn’t “vote player a in, votes reset, and then we vote player b in”. Once a person gets hammered the second-place wagon gets hammered with them. So beware that probably.

Not every mafia game needs to be painful

How does that even relate
You seem consistently tone-deaf this game and I have no idea what that means for you

If scum knew the chair was going to be used to make executions, shouldn't we be looking for people who tried to prevent Gamma from getting the chair, not the ones trying to give him the chair, assuming he is town?

I think being for or against me being in the chair is irrelevant, what’s more important is how they approached me. If I was reading solely based on that I feel like Ulyana would definitely look the worst. When I started expressing suspicion towards her her immediate paranoia was that I was angling to take a shot on her. Obviously that wasn’t the case, this wasn’t a game where I could just do that.

Where all the votes at? Less talky talky, more votey votey.

VOTE: Toogeloo
As you wish.

Anyway it looks like general consensus is on Toog being in the duel, who else should we put in?

whose consensus

It feels like general idea of where scum is at is in the less actives, Toog fits that, which I think a few have noted, and people have also voiced suspicion on him based on other things
Maybe I’m just filling in a lot of spaces with the same few names though

disagree on toog. most likely outcome is not that scum!them decided to do nothing and try to get townread

I don’t think Toog’s plan has been to get TRed, just to coast
So while unwnd’s specific logic is not good that doesn’t make the read wrong IMO

I’d accept a Toog/Dunn duel
Bring people out of the shadows and into the light

@Cakez

You were pretty much about 'Toog being scum' early on and now you're at them being null and even some posts that read like you think they're town? Why? What changed

With Toog - they are just trying so little that it almost feels too scummy to be scum, you know? And I have this instinct that scum is in the higher-activity players and they want to use Toog as a freelim when we can gain a lot more information by flipping someone who's active and controversial. Where does a Toog flip leave us regardless of alignment? Nowhere really.
And my other stronger scumreads all have Toog as someone they'd like to elim and it just feels wrong - someone else agreed with me on this I forget who.

oh this is why the tinfoil was a thing
why do you feel like scum are higher-activity generally? I'd maybe look at people who are more engaged now than they were in previous events, but I don't think that label fits anyone rn.

Cakez/Dunn ain't aligned so I'm cool with this

VOTE: Dunnstral

why
also VOTE: toogeloo

How is voting out me different than voting out toog for the game state?

it's not
I think you're both fine to be in the duel for that exact reason

just do toog/dunn and make everyone involved happy lol

see, you

get

me
Also, I think just because toog's ISO is kinda barren doesn't mean it's not a good flip to see how others interacted with him

And I think I'm done for now. There's maybe a few more things that I could bring up regarding his interactions with Toog and his pushes in general but I think they're a lot less strong than what I've listed so far and can plausibly come from town, even if I think they're more likely to be coming from scum. I might try to go through some more tomorrow but it's past 1am and I should be sleeping already. Also might respond to a few prior things with a defense about a few things tomorrow too but if I do I'll throw it in spoiler tags so it doesn't distract from the main Gemerald case.

Last thing I suppose
VOTE: Ring the Bell: petapan, Ydrasse, Gammagooey

[Gammagooey]

i don't have a lot to add! this phase is probably disproportionately easy for me to solve or something because i don't need to solve [gamma,gamma]. hit me up if y'all need me but i'm finding ggooey predictable and unconvincing.

Unconvincing I get considering most of what I'm doing is just casing your slot. Why predictable in your opinion though? Also I don't expect you to read the whole game given its length & how close to the end of the game it is, but I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

[Gammagooey]

I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

can you give me any guidance of what you're asking for? i've read everything since i replaced in, and have reactively commented on it. i've leafed through random parts of yours/ydra's/peta's/taly's isos and read around some quotes from peta's case on ydrasse to kinda broaden my awareness.

I was hoping for thoughts on individual events/days of the game - I haven't seen anything on your thoughts on people's play in individual events (the throne, the duel, the nomination event, the crossing), would like it see any specific thoughts on who was scum while going through those parts of your read, or what stood out to you as important in terms of how people got elim'd and why.

[Gammagooey]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

[Gammagooey]

if you wanna defend yourself atp go for it i just didn't want that to be the only conversation we were having yknow

i will! but I know they're often not helpful to people actually reading the defending player (or at least like most of the time it shouldn't be for players good at both town & scum). Like as either alignment I'm cherrypicking my things here, even when I think I'm better than most about giving reasonable context for given posts, and its a lot harder to effectively convey "here's why I'm not scum" in the same way as other game opinions given the bias inherent in that.
Also putting it in spoilers just feels more like "hey interacting with this is optional!" which I like b/c arguing about why I townread myself is prob not helpful past like a single response/counter-response.

Spoiler: HQ read flip on me

I think regardless of whether you think I'm town or scum, you can agree that this post and the few afterwards were very scum-indicative for HQ. I say that I'm scumreading skitter+HQ's slot the hardest, and HQ picks out the only other name that I'm scumreading and *taking some slight comedic liberty* 'NO you can't be town because THIS THIRD PERSON you're scumreading should NEVER be left behind', despite currently scumreading skitter. Like I think it's reasonable for to not think this is a town-clearing post for me, but also I think that's pretty clear that's how she would respond to basically any hypothetical town player doing the same thing - her MO this game was lashing out at people scumreading her, her seeing me with an opinion that wants both her and her scumbuddy she's bussing to die and SCREECHING to a halt to scumread me with the first thing she thought of is fits that perfectly, seeing a town attack both her and her buddy wasn't going pacify that tendency somehow and convince her to try to play for slower townreads.

I finished rereeading through some stuff to try to read Ydrasse and Gypyx better and it was mostly not helpful. I do think I should downgrade Gyoyx/Prism from strong town to regular town read b/c most of my read came from the Prism slot and just Gypyx *efforting* but he still comes across as town to me

Ydrasse wasn't around much for pages like 50-70, kinda helped start the Galron wagon and then wasn't around for a while but also those pages were like a single real-life day so I don't think it's anything to really hold against her. Ydrasse also wasn't around a ton in blue PT which is slightly eh but most of her content there was pushing Toog which I can't really fault either.

My perfect left behind-team atm is prob skitter/Saber/Ydrasse/whoever Ydrasse wants to take down with her but I'm much more concerned with just getting skitter/saber dead atm

If Taly gets within hammer range of sending across I'll do it even though I want him to go later, but also I want to be slamming through the first 4 people once we've got the 1st person crossing.
VOTE: petapan for now

oh hey more posts. I would still push dwlee through too and be perfectly happy about it, so if more votes go in that direction I'll jump back on dwlee wagon. Gemerald is also fine would vote to cross

oh and LAST THING I probably don't have much time to post until Saturday evening except for tomorrow morning and pop-ins to change my vote as a heads-up.

Okay, lost my initial tr on this slot. Ydrasse should never be left behind.

Spoiler: that one skitter post asking Galron if she could help that peta fjgfjg'd at

I

suspect

that you didn't like the 2nd post here, but it's just skitter seeing Infinity do literally the same thing and then repeating it a bit later.

@galron is there anything i can do to help you get more engaged? honestly not much has happened so far, the main event has been gamma acting erratically and getting scumread for it, and lashing out at prism for confidently pushing him.

actually i kinda like this

I'm caught up enough I think. I just haven't found anything to really dig into. The mechanics seem the most interesting thing, but I don't think it's really the right time to talk about that, at least until we have the first challenge under our belts. My reads are awful, and I have this impression that no one's done or said anything really noteworthy. Like in Radio Buzz by this time we had several 1v1s or 1v1v1s. I see a few here, but they're junior varsity spats. I'm seeing what I think is a frustrated Gamma leading the pack, but I'm not sure why he's so scum read, which makes me think I need to go back and read the beginning of the game again, which I started doing. I do kind of agree with whomever said that thing about Ceph being similar to RB, and I think I need more than just that feeling to scum read him I think. I dunno, I'm just missing a ground hold here.

You feel very weird and like muted as compared to radio buzz. There iirc u also kinda missed fhe beginning of the game but ur contributions were p quickly p townie. Idk if the difference here is that u need more time to get into the swing pf things, or if ur just scum. Dunno how to differentiate between those universes just yet

Is there anything i can do to help you get into the game?

[Gammagooey]

that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

Your choosing a dichotomy of [taly,ydra] to lim yesterday strikes me as pretty wild.

peta is right in that he doesn't interact with Saber+HQ they way he did as scumbuddies - the only other option from my perspective would be putting up your slot in place of one of them which I don't get why you would find less wild.

but that's not really what I'm getting at here anyway

This game is book-length at this point, what parts of the book were boring, which parts were surprising, I'd love the most casual english/history class-style opinions that you have on what happened here.

[Gammagooey]

Oh, I misinterpreted

i've read everything since i replaced in

as "I've read everything (during the time period between replacing in and now)" instead of "I've read everything (that was between replacing in and now)"

well, nevermind then

[Gammagooey]

Eh one last thing to go over, don't think it'll be as convincing as the previous bits but I do think it still points fairly strongly towards Gemerald-scum. I probably won't be around much tomorrow+Thursday, but deadline for Tick Away hits a little after midnight Thursday so I'll try to be around at least a few hours before that - I might not be 'til 8 or 9 my time though.

p-edit: hey peta & the worst, I'm probably going to bed in like 15 min. putting together all the quotes for this took longer than I expected.

The crossing is the first event where I think everyone had to put out multiple scum reads at once and actually act on them. Peta already had several, if not just *most* of the quotes in the spoiler in a quotewall already last event, so into spoiler tags they're going. Post-note: pulled out like one quote that I had a unique take on and a few snippets, the spoiler has many more quotes with a lot more contextual quotes for what Gemerald is saying to Harley+about his crossing reads.
I'm putting the same or close to the same commentary from me outside the spoiler as inside, inside it'll just be easier to follow along inside with the individual quotes they're referencing.

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event. He talks to some people (I've just included quotes from him & Harley between his early event statement+his first crossing readslist, but there is more than that, he talks to just about everyone who was around early in that event) and eventually comes down with this:

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

I don't really feel like harley feels like Gemerald's 4th/5th scum read that could mayyybe be left out given how he's interacting with her, but tbf I can also see theoretical-town Gemerald sticking her at the end to give her a chance and try to keep her interacting with him in general and the game as a whole, so that bit's shrugworthy.
The Gypyx read is pretty out of nowhere though. Like I don't see any indication that it exists before the crossing event. Gemerald shoots a quick question at Gypyx at the start of it that was already answered, and his reason for the Gypyx read is

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred.

which feels very weak to have him as a scumread above either of Dwlee or Harley who he's been actively suspecting recently, and is probably just slid in there to give a reason to put Harley just on the end of the suspect list.


One more obvious point is that skitter is still on the live list, and one particular post that seems bad in regards to that is asking Taly to check his math and double check that the 8 he's implying should live are really the 8 he wants - it's pretty clear I think from his other posts around then that he wants skitter to live, but instead of saying that directly again he's trying to nudge Taly into reconsidering on skitter without directly defending her.

Still unsure of my order.

I know I want

ydra/peta/gammagooey

to cross later than sooner but if we go with

Toog's

plan, then I end up with less than 4 being uncrowded.

Mmm.

the math on this seems wrong
(me, toog, dwlee, cakez) + (ydra, peta, ggy) + you = 8 people crossing, leaving (ulya, skitts, HQ, gypyx)
is there anyone in that last group you TR? If not I'm gonna mark those down as the ones you don't want to cross so I can have an entry from you in my spreadsheet I'm using to math out the consensus of who gets left out

Spoiler: buncha Gemerald crossing posts

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event.

The 8 to cross should go in scummiest -> towniest order

And who determines how scummy people are?

me

fuck no
I am actively invoking my right to dictate things to some extent. I'll probably take some input on the crossing order, but there's basically no chance I fold on any of the people I want left out

Gemerald mentions early on that he wants to dictate the crossing to some extent, which seems p. reasonable given that he got overruled on the infinity nom+elim in the last event. He talks to some people (I've just included quotes from him & Harley between his early event statement+his first crossing readslist, but there is more than that, he talks to just about everyone who was around early in that event) and eventually comes down with this:
HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

Harley did you read at all during the break? I feel like you haven’t really shown much initiative in really making stuff happen

HQ, I do like your Dunn analysis, but I kinda see more from you as well

Here's my reasoning: If Gypyx is town, Harley has a good chance of being scum. If Harley is town then the other way around. Makes sense to put both in then

Very simple, you flip me first because I will flip town and then my reads will get taken seriously. It seems that few people are willing to listen to me while I’m alive, so my reads will get the respect they didn’t once I’m dead and I’m good with that.

???
Dwlee is literally trying to flip both you and your strongest SR
Why this attitude?

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

HQ I’d like if you could engage me here

What do you want me to say? My predecessor was being an idiot, I’m getting sr for entirely nia things and I’m like over it. I just don’t see the point of continuing to bang my head against a brick wall.

That’s not what’s going on IMO, I feel like a decent chunk of people are willing to give you a chance
It’s just that the content you’ve chosen to provide hasn’t really felt like what you should be giving

Let’s start with this
What do you think of my actions and rationale during the first part of event 2?

@Harley Quinn

It would really help me if you linked or quoted the specific posts your referencing.

Gamma

@HQ I want you to read my posting in between post 1723 and 1900 and say what you think of it

Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)

This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order

there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers

go into it?

I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez

I don't really feel like harley feels like Gemerald's 4th/5th scum read that could mayyybe be left out given how he's interacting with her, but tbf I can also see theoretical-town Gemerald sticking her at the end to give her a chance and try to keep her interacting with him in general and the game as a whole, so that bit's shrugworthy.
The Gypyx read is pretty out of nowhere though. Like I don't see any indication that it exists before the crossing event. Gemerald shoots a quick question at Gypyx at the start of it that was already answered, and his reason for the Gypyx read is

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred.

which feels very weak to have him as a scumread above either of Dwlee or Harley who he's been actively suspecting recently, and is probably just slid in there to give a reason to put Harley just on the end of the suspect list.
----------------------------------

This post seems weird in retrospect
Gypyx seemed conscious that I was getting wagoned earlier and of some of the circumstances behind it, why would things have changed midway through?

i'm not sure what's this post exactly supposed to mean, could you like be more clear?

Why were you asking about the wagon on me when I think it should've been clear the meaning of it from what you'd already seen?

I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.

i think i know what you're talking about from gypyx but can you go into it?

When I started asserting my confidence in town!infinity Gypyx leapt to the idea I had an inno on infinity as a result of being spared as town. I did not, but I believe him thinking that might have been a slip of the tongue in a sense, as scum would know

some

reward had occurred. My belief for what the reward is, which I might have covered prior, is that the spinning of the barrel in the duel being true random was it.

---------------

One more obvious point is that skitter is still on the live list, and one particular post that seems bad in regards to that is asking Taly to check his math and double check that the 8 he's implying should live are really the 8 he wants - it's pretty clear I think from his other posts around then that he wants skitter to live, but instead of saying that directly again he's trying to nudge Taly into reconsidering on skitter without directly defending her.

Here ya go.

My first 4 across would be Cakez, dwlee, Gamma, and then myself, in that order. If no one dies, and game isn't over, well, we at least have something to talk about.

First plan you've given this event that I'm actually pretty OK with.

I’m not. I’d really like to get my top TRs across (myself, peta, Taly, skitter, Ggy)
This plan only just leaves enough room for them and I’d really rather purge as many of my actual SRs as possible rather than people I’m just somewhat worried about atp

HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)

my desired order would be something like

(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)

Why unsure on

HQ/Cakez

?

HQ has been posting a fair amount and working to rectify things wrt her slot, but I feel like she's not doing the exact right things, and her early posting kinda doesn't sit right with me.
I dislike how Cakez was like "my reads have been good this game" post-Dunn flip in an attempt to push infinity when he was pretty confidently SRing Cephrir, and that ended up wrong. I'm willing to give peta some credit for the Dunn associatives though, it's just not enough and there's also a spiteful part of me that wants to disregard it because my infinity townread was dismissed so readily when I gave it in the blue room. But I don't want to be that petty, so I'm giving the TR some due.

Still unsure of my order.

I know I want

ydra/peta/gammagooey

to cross later than sooner but if we go with

Toog's

plan, then I end up with less than 4 being uncrowded.

Mmm.

the math on this seems wrong
(me, toog, dwlee, cakez) + (ydra, peta, ggy) + you = 8 people crossing, leaving (ulya, skitts, HQ, gypyx)
is there anyone in that last group you TR? If not I'm gonna mark those down as the ones you don't want to cross so I can have an entry from you in my spreadsheet I'm using to math out the consensus of who gets left out

scummish: Toog, Saber, Ydrasse
fight me scummo: Skitter

@gammagooey

are you still thinking this?

(you/skitter) 1 here
toog
gypyx (?)

i trust cakez gamma harley taly
maybe ulyana maaaaybe dwlee
i want to believe goolord is town

are you good marking down (toog, peta, skitter, gypyx) as your 4 to kill?

I forgot about gammagooey. Put him in the first four with HQ, Cakez, and myself. The scumspect lineup.

OKAY STOP.
I think I’ve heard enough from you at least for now. Stop posting for like an hour.

Well, I think you and dwlee both agreed to be in the bottom four together, lol. The 4 who stay behind should have the most weight on who goes forward, if you think that might make it fair, but in all reality, the 4 most town read players will occupy those spots, and there will either be a game over win, or a dead player who's reads might better influence the last 4 as well.

NO WE DIDN’T
Our conversation progressed past that to a split pool idea, and even then I’ve since moved on to trying to do it mathematically.
Do you not realize if someone crosses that should otherwise get left behind, someone else has to stay behind in their place? Or do you just not care?

Well I think you need to get your grubby little paws out of the dip
It really seems like you’re trying to test me by seeing how bad a plan you can get away with. I will not abide!

@toog In this game, yes that’s accurate (though that post looks loaded to suggest I’m scum)
I think you trying to help is good, but your plans do seem very scum-adjacent. I think Taly has a very good idea in having players who are at each other’s throats but have a good number of people TRing them should cross early so either one can get resolved by getting killed or there can be confirmed scum in a set or town just wins
I think there’s like 3 of those pairs atm (me/Dwlee, gooey/skitts, ulyana/Cakez)
Obviously only two of those can be a part of this plan for now (if 4 go across without a kill and the game isn’t won yet we can discuss sending over the last pair maybe)
Actually writing that I realized that the way MT worded things when it was asked earlier might put a spanner in the works

I'm ok with

cakez/ulya/gamma/dwlee

being the first crossers, I mean, I think it's very possible you're all town.

I don't think I can sign off on this just yet.
When I just run it by number of times someone said they were okay leaving someone behind, this is what I get

Gamma, peta - 1 vote to not cross
Taly, Dwlee, gooey, ydra - 2 votes to not cross
ulyana, cakez, skitter - 3 votes to not cross
gypyx - 6 votes to not cross
harley, toog - 7 votes to not cross

so the consensus seems to be that 3 out of 4 of the folks who shouldn't be crossing are harley, toog, and gypyx. The challenge is who the fourth should be. All of the people with 3 people voting to leave behind are also people who are in a 1v1 and are thus people we'd want to cross in the first 4. A first 6 plan is out of the question I think, as that would mandate leaving behind a 2 vote person. So I can't really in good conscience make the decision on my own. I've tried to think my way out of this block but nothing feels right.

[Gammagooey]

@peta - I appreciate it, and I did overreact to the vote.
I thought 'if he thinks there's ANY chance I'm town why is he doing this when it's clear I'm confident enough in it that I'd be 100% pushing on Taly tomorrow too if he lives' and immediately posted a reaction instead of stopping to calm down and think about that literally everyone but me would need to vote Nay for Ydra to die on a tiebreaker and it had a 0.001% chance of happening. (Though I do have a funny/dumb anecdote about something similar for post-game)

Also I have a dumb analogy about last event so hopefully something amusing can come out of all the frustration earlier

You, Taly, & I are a family arguing about who took all the cookies last night.
I'm the boring middle brother with whatever personality traits you feel are appropriate
Taly is the younger brother who keeps poking me over and over again and saying I stole them - it's annoying but he just wants to be right and convince mom that he's right so she'll buy him more cookies
You're the older brother, and sometimes you say things that come across harsher than you mean them to - I don't know if it's to provoke me so you can figure out whether I actually took the cookies, or you're just used to talking with friends that way when they know that you don't mean it. I felt mildly insulted by you for something else & was feeling generally frustrated with the entire cookie situation and exploded over something that seemed worse to me than it actually was.

but obv the important thing is that dad got high last night and ate all of the godamn cookies

[Gammagooey]

I'm expecting to die here tbh but I'll throw up one more explanation of what I did earlier in the game and my thought process for it. I don't even really think I can call it a defense since if you think I'd be willing to hardbus every partner I had at the first chance I got (say what you want about how I didn't push skitter in Blue PT ULTRA HARD over infinity even though I think I was clear there she was my biggest scumread and ya'll hammered Infinity before I finished reading the game so I slowed down on reading and generally doing shit in the PT after that) then what I did here in particular would fit that too.

When we hit 6 players voted across for the crossing event (including Dwlee who died after being sent across first), I jumped in to push Cakez instead of Ydrasse for the 2nd to last player across. On one hand, I did think Cakez was townier than Ydrasse, but the main reason I had for doing it and particularly for doing it THEN instead of waiting for Ydrasse to cross and then pushing for Cakez as the final one, is that to me it looked like if I didn't do something to stop everyone from just voting all the 'Consensus' reads and consider people a little more carefully, imo Firebringer was likely going to slip through as the last person to cross.

if it’s the read on your slot... saber doesn’t leave the game like that as scum nor does hq show that level of emotional range as scum (i’m crying every day, etc etc)

Ydrasse, Tamora's Angel, SirCakez, Firebringer, Gypyx, Toogeloo, Gammagooey

From the uncrossed I guess leave Tamora's Angel, Toog, Gypyx, ???
Firebringer? ughhh

I feel quite confident that Fire can sheep things without reading as any alignment and is perfectly fine announcing it to the world

if you're town then it would mean firebringer also voted for two towns to cross so if scum!firebringer i would think partners or at the very least one would have to already be crossed? because otherwise would be sheeping team into doomed position and not trying to do anything about it

like,

the 'look see i don't have an agenda' thing doesn't really work if it puts team in unwinnable situation,

so if confident everyone crossed is town, then firebringer is probably town?

hm

This is my post that slowed the game down and pushed for Cakez as the 7th (out of 8) crosser

VOTE: SirCakez
I personally lean Cakez out of everyone to cross next, but the two things I'm confident on this game are Tamora/Firebringer-scum (b/c of Saber/HQ and skitter's play) and I'm pretty willing to openly wheel and deal with my vote to make sure they're left uncrossed.

TALY

you probably disagree with me on Cakez over Ydrasse crossing next, and I think you've mentioned that you think Cakez is a likely busser of Dunn - are there any specifics you could point me to on why you feel that way?

oh hey there's a taly

It's reasonable and true to say that I didn't try very hard to actually stop Ydrasse from going across, because that's not really what I cared about. I did my best to make sure that both of my strongest scumreads were ACTUALLY in an event that was likely to cause their death, not just posture that it was what I wanted and leave myself open to complain about it later if I didn't get what I wanted. And it worked - Ydrasse still went through 7th, but enough people were ok with me, or my pushes either of Cakez to live/Fire to die, or for Gemerald his "current view of the gamestate" for Cakez to be put through last.

[Gammagooey]

gg all!

Gemerald played phenomenally imo and I think the only way that I was going to get there was either through peta's case in event 9 or both of taly+ydra's dead bodies. Even on the final event I still took a few hours waffling about the possibility of it being Ydra instead of Gemerald while making the Gemerald case. Do wish that I had commented a bit more on it then but I felt like me just saying retreads of "that's a good point if Taly flips town" and "That makes sense but Taly still makes much more sense as scum to me" wouldn't have been helpful and would have just encouraged Taly's INSATIABLE BLOODLUST further.

Thanks a ton for modding MT!

[Gammagooey]

Ay guessed the sabotage on Almost way back when too

Subject: Slaughter Hour: Grand Debut | Moderator Chat

EVENT SIX SHOOTING

Firebringer -

Shooting Toogeloo

Tamora's Angel -

Shooting Almost50

Toogeloo -

Shooting Firebringer

Almost50 -

Shooting Tamora's Angel

SABOTAGED