Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Infinity 324]

hi i haven't played mafia in forever

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: dunn pooky feels towny to me i don't like that vote

[Infinity 324]

yeah what's up with that

[Infinity 324]

the mafia already knows they want to be chosen possibly not want not to be chosen right

can you rephrase this?

PEdit: hmm you've played in a lot of awesome plists and you weren't so towny there

[Infinity 324]

@shiki i don't think scum fake not reading a post all that often. i think if pooky is scum they were like "hmm what would town!me be theorizing about the setup here". or "hmm how can i justify voting myself"

i don't think either is super likely

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: annie no snitching

[Infinity 324]

im hungover

im also super tempted to vote for myself cuz this event sounds kinda fun

wow mindmeld prism

pooky is saying that they didn't read prism's "acquitted" post here. i was responding to the "hiding that they did" idea

[Infinity 324]

pooky is saying that they didn't read prism's "acquitted" post here. i was responding to the "hiding that they did" idea

nono i was saying prism might have been hiding their thoughts with regards to the chair, sorry

ok so if i got this right your thought process is:

prism and pooky both are thinking that it could be good to get voted here

pooky has an inutitive theory (the king theory) whereas prism's seems much less intuitive to you

therefore, prism could be scum who does not want to mention the more intuitive theory because it's actually the correct theory?

[Infinity 324]

i think shiki is almost definitely town if the vote is not just an elimination or something similar to it

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ydrasse too logical

[Infinity 324]

1. That conditional is false
2. The If clause is false
3. The then clause is false
4. The post's second line was a joke

I am out of patience.

you were not obligated to respond to this in the first place, it seemed to be very speculative to me and not an "i want to eliminate prism"

[Infinity 324]

prism honestly people scumreading other people for questionable reasons is part of the game, especially light suspicion

[Infinity 324]

@prism i hope you start enjoying yourself this game, i will not post to you until further notice

[Infinity 324]

hi cakez

i agree with dunn's approach. i think any other approach involves some form of mod WIFOM that's probably not great to get into

[Infinity 324]

by definition scum doesn't have a normal nightkill, since there are no nights. it's very unlikely that every other event is just "scum gets to kill someone"

[Infinity 324]

Dunn is your pooky vote serious? if so why

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: dwlee

[Infinity 324]

infinity is town this game

why do you say that

[Infinity 324]

didn't like most of what he said but 276 is amusing enough reasoning

am i giving too much credence to it being an "out there" theory

don't think so, i think that's pretty towny for gamma

[Infinity 324]

hi taly! can you explain your thoughts on pooky a bit better? i don't understand what you're saying in that paragraph

or you could give a spicy gut take about someone you haven't played with

i think you're towny but the last wall felt a little like your walls in student council, so it made me doubt my read a bit.

[Infinity 324]

There doesn't seem to be much in favor of people wanting to vote town for the electric chair, which perplexes the fuck out of me that Prism has as many votes as they do.

i think people just scumread them? idk i don't have a read there

i've decided you're town i think

[Infinity 324]

From his perspective as well as in general those 3 aren’t great so far
Peta’s kinda felt reactive
Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke
Ydrasse trying to jump in on the pockit fun felt a little overwrought

it feels like ur trying to frame this more from like, the perspective of validating pooky instead of stuff /you/ believe in even though you're able 2 espouse these reasons

ok, do you think this post and the posts after it feel like genuine sorting or is it a scum "gotcha"

[Infinity 324]

Upon some thought, I don't like Gamma or Ydrasse in that interaction.

can you explain a bit more why you don't like ydrasse here?

in my experience with gamma, that type of reasoning isn't out-of-character

[Infinity 324]

For Gamma it's a thing because we interrogated Gamma about it. It's a bad point but it's not like he's going door to door begging us to buy it.

For ulyana, she believed my train of thought (thinking/joking about trials and acquittals) was less plausible and natural than Pooky's and suggestive that I was informed in some way.

worth noting that i interrogated shiki about her line of reasoning related to this as well

@pooky i think your plan doesn't work now that you've mentioned it

[Infinity 324]

hi skitt

i don't really understand why people think gamma is scum

[Infinity 324]

@prism i'm really sorry about my posts to you yesterday. i was frustrated about your reaction to shiki's suspicion and the negative effects i felt it was having on the game, but it was a really shitty and insensitive thing to express, especially at that time. i should've known that it was a problem you were aware of, and that there was nothing productive that could've come out of that engagement.

[Infinity 324]

hi skitt

i don't really understand why people think gamma is scum

for me it’s mostly that he voted pooky for... agreeing with his reads. which makes no sense to me when he was able to verbalize scumreads on me/peta/prism when asked about it

like you have these thoughts about three people but then vote a random fourth option for agreeing with you like. ??

ah yeah i was gonna wait for gamma to answer but they were all expressed as pretty weak reads yeah?

i guess the other thing is just that it always baffles me when people go "weird thought process -> scum" when it's consistently the opposite in my experience

[Infinity 324]

the implication in voting pooky for me is that there’s scum in peta/prism

gamma said that he was partly thinking from scum!pooky's perspective with those scumreads right? like "these are people who look scummy on the surface so scum!pooky is likely to scumread them". that's how i interpreted it.

i agree that it's weird to then vote peta. but none of this seems like a great idea as scum

i don't really townread him that strongly either though so i guess it's not too important

@saber a thought process that you don't understand on the surface is more likely to be genuine imo

[Infinity 324]

<3 ydra

[Infinity 324]

hmm i don't really buy that the pooky vote was a meme

[Infinity 324]

Skitter + infinity team? Maybe?

why?

[Infinity 324]

Scrambling to hit tonal bases early

can you give quotes for this?

[Infinity 324]

skitt i have nothing to respond to

[Infinity 324]

???

how do u think i should be reading u here?

idk you read me wrong in radio buzz i'm not really planning to try to sort you until lategame anyway

[Infinity 324]

uh this is a weirdly muted reaction to me scumreading you ...

yeah there are a lot of reasons for this, a lot of it is that after radio buzz and perpetual melo i've felt a lot less confident in sorting you and sorting you based on your read on me specifically

[Infinity 324]

i think the gamma tonal bits are probably nai fwiw

i agree with this

[Infinity 324]

that was for dwlee ^

and infinity, ig i'm used to town-you strongly pushing back when i call u scum (esp. if you think i ought to be townreading you), but here you're just kinda accepting the read and not really having any sort of reaction

the other thing is that i don't think i've been super towny this game. i don't think i'm trying to look town but that's a hard thing to identify in other players

[Infinity 324]

that was for dwlee ^

and infinity, ig i'm used to town-you strongly pushing back when i call u scum (esp. if you think i ought to be townreading you), but here you're just kinda accepting the read and not really having any sort of reaction

the other thing is that i don't think i've been super towny this game. i don't think i'm trying to look town but that's a hard thing to identify in other players

you feel kinda scummy to me tbh :(

ok i hope you change your mind /shrug

[Infinity 324]

infinity r u ok?

i'm doing pretty well yeah

[Infinity 324]

ah ok good to hear!

you feel really, really off and weird in this game tho

i haven't played mafia in a few weeks

a lot has changed in my life since i last played with you

i'm not sure what it is but there are a lot of reasons why that could be the case

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: gamma ok i trust prism's read rate + gamma being this incomprehensible is pretty scummy

[Infinity 324]

prism are you still upset at me

[Infinity 324]

prism is town i think, she doesn't need to put this much energy into justifying herself as scum

PEdit: lol

[Infinity 324]

prism is town i think, she doesn't need to put this much energy into justifying herself as scum

PEdit: lol

Is this a meta thing at all or just a thought about this game?

meta, she's more confident as scum than that

[Infinity 324]

taly do you have any thoughts on saber so far?

[Infinity 324]

prism mentioning her read rate on gamma + gamma trying to claim his read on pooky was partly a meme + i realized the arguments i was using to defend gamma were similar to the ones i was using when i was his scumbuddy

[Infinity 324]

that's why i changed my read on gamma

[Infinity 324]

i believe in them generally, but it made me feel like they don't apply to gamma. and importantly it felt different from when i try to defend town!gamma for similar reasons.

[Infinity 324]

gamma what are your thoughts about me scumreading you?

[Infinity 324]

usually if town-her feels i'm reading her wrong (which has happened multiple times in the past), she kicks into gear, starts pushing me, and has a visceral sort of response.

fwiw i think this would be quite bad townplay to continue down this path after radio buzz.

[Infinity 324]

gamma what are your thoughts about me scumreading you?

I can kinda get how you got there but I’m hoping some change of scenery can rectify that
Like, idr what your reasons for defending me were in Panic Room but if you say they resemble your reasons in this game then that sounds valid, it’s just I’m probably playing a way-off game to the point the only defenses you can think of are the “bad” ones

i kind of understand this, but i also feel like you should be more surprised by this? i don't think i've wrongly scumread you ever

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Gamma



I am excited to see what happens here

i lean town on skitt, i think the way she's approaching me is likely to be genuine and i like the cakez read

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

idk the vc

i assume that's drunk taly, drunk taly is best taly

[Infinity 324]

usually if town-her feels i'm reading her wrong (which has happened multiple times in the past), she kicks into gear, starts pushing me, and has a visceral sort of response.

fwiw i think this would be quite bad townplay to continue down this path after radio buzz.

Could you expand on this?

I also see you read skitter as town, do you see her approach to you as different from that game?[/quote

honestly it probably wasn't great play in the first place to expect skitter to always read me correctly, but especially now that i know she doesn't. skitter is a very strong scum player, and i don't have the tools to confidently read her at this stage of the game. it's probably best practice to wait until later on to read her, after we know whether she's been pushing town or scum and have more pieces of the gamestate. (this is what menalque does and he knows her really well). since we don't know if scum can kill this might be a bit more difficult than normal but i think it's fine still

i don't really think it's useful to compare her approach that game to this game since my play is so different.

[Infinity 324]

@galron is there anything i can do to help you get more engaged? honestly not much has happened so far, the main event has been gamma acting erratically and getting scumread for it, and lashing out at prism for confidently pushing him.

[Infinity 324]

I also see Gamma as vastly different in that show, mostly in tone. His tone comes across as very inquisitive and relaxed in that game, while he feels more erratic and on edge here. Perhaps because there's money on the line and he could get the sack

this does a pretty good job of explaining why i scumread gamma

good readslist from prism

[Infinity 324]

If you didn't have ill intent, and you're trying to get better, that's great. Acknowledge the mistake and move on and I will accept that. I don't think reminding you makes you a victim.

yeah this

[Infinity 324]

I came into this expecting a meme game. Why you all making it so serious?

i'm sorry you wanted a different type of game, i think a lot of players on this playerlist enjoy taking the game seriously

[Infinity 324]

@gamma i don't think the intent was to slander you, i think it was to point out biases you may not have been aware of

also the definition of the word machismo on Google has "masculine" in it /shrug

i just don't think pointing out bias is something you should react that strongly to when it's really something we should all be working on

[Infinity 324]

It's important to understand if it's malicious intent. I don't feel that anyone has crossed that line. We're human, we make mistakes.

this is fair if you give an apology, which gamma hasn't for the all caps post

[Infinity 324]

<3 gamma, i'm sorry you're beating yourself up about this so much, that's not worth it

[Infinity 324]

@gamma no one is obligated to forgive you if you they were hurt by something, but i respect you for trying to be better

pedit: i apologize 53 times a day

[Infinity 324]

no, we're not agreed on that, but most of us think that it's the most likely scenario

[Infinity 324]

i think they meant mechanical advantages from the events not from roles

[Infinity 324]

also hi gypyx

[Infinity 324]

he's posting

it's ez

he's broken that meta a couple times at this point

[Infinity 324]

@skitt i don't have a strong townread on you. i think if you agreed with a reason for me to townread you it would probably make the point kinda moot anyway, since you could replicate it as scum

why do you scumread dwlee? i kinda like how flippant they are

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ulyana
I feel like she's dispassionate and disconnected from the game in a way that she wasn't in radio buzz as rousseau, but somewhat reminds me of what I remember tracy flick being like in student council

disagree but this is believable tbh

[Infinity 324]

Tbf shiki was coming from an informed perspective with something to latch onto + more content (the callers)

i could see this for sure

gamma actually can you go back and iso her in student council? i think there's quite a difference in her engagement level even from here, plus there's a proactiveness she has here that she didn't there

[Infinity 324]

i'm kinda maybe changing my mind on infinity fwiw

yay

[Infinity 324]

Tbf shiki was coming from an informed perspective with something to latch onto + more content (the callers)

i could see this for sure

gamma actually can you go back and iso her in student council? i think there's quite a difference in her engagement level even from here, plus there's a proactiveness she has here that she didn't there

now I'm not sure

what

to think because she felt more alive in student council looking at her ISO again than she does this game

+town imo, now i need to go back and read though cause i remember the exact opposite

[Infinity 324]

i think gamma is town

[Infinity 324]

its actually kind of wild people think "dude with 0 thread influence moving his vote around pointlessly = scummy"

How is it not

let's see:

town does this somewhat often
scum almost never does this
there's very little rational scum motivation to do this, as it draws more attention to yourself and many people see it as scummy
there's a few possible town motivations, including genuinely being lost and looking for reactions

so it's scummy how exactly?

[Infinity 324]

i'm baffled at anyone who has galron at anything but null

[Infinity 324]

this is the same ydra of that normal game and radio buzz

im rolling town lately and i cant stop

I was backreading to track votes between the last VC and ulyana+Dunnstral and noticed this
It’s a blatant lie but the fact that it’s a blatant lie is itself evidence that Ydrasse is town
Ydrasse as Bee in PYP had a serious case of scum fatigue; after I read that fact in the scum PT of that game Ydrasse shot up to Taly-level town because I saw none of those same warning signs from her in this game that I received in that game.

i'm pretty sure this was a joke

also do people still scumread this? lol

[Infinity 324]

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

I don't like this post

why?

[Infinity 324]

there's a few possible town motivations, including genuinely being lost and looking for reactions

gamma has not produced these motivations. assigning them to him seems awfully generous.

or even expressly changed his mind about the people he was going after earlier.

i think it's pretty clear that he's lost

[Infinity 324]

I would've liked to see ANY type of counter to my case on Gamma.... I get it was spoilered but I don't feel differently than I did last night.

i don't have much of a response to it...i think gamma was lost this game and had an emotional response to people pushing him that led him to play more erratically

the most important thing to look at imo is his posting since prism replaced out, he's been slowly showing a solving mindset in the classic gamma way

[Infinity 324]

i'm baffled at anyone who has galron at anything but null

Well what do u think abt the points i made a few posta up?

still don't agree with those points although i don't feel like he's been super towny now that he's actually been playing

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: galron cause i don't like either of the other wagons, tbf i'm terrible at reading dunn but the fact that he's getting wagoned d1 is probably +town

[Infinity 324]

i like peta this game and want him to be town

[Infinity 324]

i'm not having a hard time, i just have a big townrange

[Infinity 324]

i'm just more relaxed this game

[Infinity 324]

no you fucking weren't lmfao

that's how i interpreted it at the time

[Infinity 324]

gypyx I've never seen you effort this much as either alignment what's up

[Infinity 324]

i almost think it's scummy tbh, like you're intentionally trying to subvert your meta :/

[Infinity 324]

I like that response.

me too now i feel bad

[Infinity 324]

what do you feel bad for infy

felt like i made gypyx a bit upset, looks like we're good though

[Infinity 324]

Can someone tell me what ig means?

i guess

[Infinity 324]

I like that response.

I like that response.

me too now i feel bad

So what does "without half forcing me to play the game and think about peeps" even mean?

i assumed he meant he often has to force himself to play because he's not motivated

[Infinity 324]

Stop talking about the chair having restraints please

Chekhov's gun.

this seems not super likely to apply to a mafia game

[Infinity 324]

shiki isn't usually this confident/even confrontational as scum

[Infinity 324]

shiki isn't usually this confident/even confrontational as scum

tbh i'm not sure i would describe her as confrontational ...

it may be a bit of a stretch, but she does have a bit more of an edge to her

[Infinity 324]

might be a weird thing to say but i think getting riled up when people scumread her is +town for her

a little bit yeah, i liked the post where she was "stop vaguely scumreading me and engage"

also i liked her early game questioning/suspicion of prism, it was quite proactive

[Infinity 324]

i don't think it's scum-indicative to make an illogical misinterpretation of a post

[Infinity 324]

good luck!

[Infinity 324]

personally i wouldn't want to end the day yet, i don't feel like i have a lot of great reads. but i can see why people would

[Infinity 324]

Spare

[Infinity 324]

are we just hoping for the benefit mostly?

sure, i think gamma is obvious town at this point, the thoughts were super genuine

[Infinity 324]

why?? like why would morning tweet reveal the second event to the mafias beforehand?

not sure, it's possible she did so that scum could plan around it a little bit

[Infinity 324]

why?? like why would morning tweet reveal the second event to the mafias beforehand?

not sure, it's possible she did so that scum could plan around it a little bit

that would be the knowing it was not an elimination or even that it was potentially beneficial i assume

why are you assuming these things

[Infinity 324]

why?? like why would morning tweet reveal the second event to the mafias beforehand?

not sure, it's possible she did so that scum could plan around it a little bit

that would be the knowing it was not an elimination or even that it was potentially beneficial i assume

why are you assuming these things

because giving the information about the second event during the first doesn’t make sense when you then have to give it again to say would you like to sabotage this event? here’s what would happen et cetera

I would think they would give the sabotage information at the same time

regardless i don't think we can rule out this possibility and speculating on it isn't super helpful

[Infinity 324]

@shiki i think it's possible yes

UNVOTE: Spare i don't know how to do this but i don't want to end the day yet

[Infinity 324]

i don't think pooky was killed because of mech spec lol


although he is shockingly good at guessing the twists in these roller coaster ride games


he was killed because he was highly motivated and obvious town who is capable of dominating a thread and often has good reads

it's an obvious and boring answer and i don't know that there's a lot of insight to be gleaned from it

[Infinity 324]

everyone thought was scum

[Infinity 324]

i don't think pooky was killed because of mech spec lol


although he is shockingly good at guessing the twists in these roller coaster ride games


he was killed because he was highly motivated and obvious town who is capable of dominating a thread and often has good reads

it's an obvious and boring answer and i don't know that there's a lot of insight to be gleaned from it

Why the assumption that pooky was an intended target? This doesn't bode well for me, but what if they just didn't want me killed bc they knew I'm limbait and "another player will be executed" type thing happened?

possible but i think it's more likely that scum controlled the whole sabotage

[Infinity 324]

btw what are your thoughts on saber?

[Infinity 324]

hmm yeah i've felt that way before on the rare occasion i have been utr. i understand why you want to engage with people so much!

i feel like saber felt quite towny early on, but as event 1 went on i didn't like how tunneled she felt on gamma even when he started posting townier. i'd like to know her thoughts on gamma now. she's high in my PoE i guess.

one thing that i'm sort of wondering about is when exactly people changed their mind about gamma. i feel like a lot of the towniness he showed after he was hammered there were signs of after prism replaced out. i wonder if/how people disagree with this. i do think there are legitimate town reasons to miss or disagree that the posts pre-phase 2 were towny.

i feel like i have too many townreads, this always happens and idk what to do

[Infinity 324]

ydrasse i hope you get motivated to play i wanna play with you

[Infinity 324]

why do you like saber ydrasse?

[Infinity 324]

peta maybe

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: spare

[Infinity 324]

peta maybe

i more or less expect to get this

i think if you go beyond entertaining the paranoia read of "he could be playing a good scum game" (whether or not i deserve that read) and, just, like, down the line look back at whether my actions have been playing to a scum agenda

i don't think it'll be hard to figure out that i'm town

well the question wasn't "is peta scum" it was "who could be scum in your townreads"

[Infinity 324]

like maybe the scumteam is dunn/galron/ydrasse/ceph but probably not right

idk who i should be looking at that i'm not

[Infinity 324]

@peta but my gut says galron is town

guttttttt

[Infinity 324]

taly who is fooling me

[Infinity 324]

taly who is fooling me

Likely someone who is mid-tier in your reads. I would not question higher placing reads at the moment, but your solve on the other page is incorrect.

Do you think scum is LHF this game?

not really

i'll think about that

[Infinity 324]

ydrasse often just doesn't really play as town too

[Infinity 324]

as town

hm, how do galron's recent interactions with me feel to you,

keeps making me feel like galron is town tbh

[Infinity 324]

hmm

VOTE: gypyx

i feel like gamma being town makes prism slot a lot more likely to be scum

this or ydrasse are my favorite votes atm

other thoughts:

i think cakez is decently towny

i've liked dunn's posting so far but pooky scumread him and pooky also had a really good tmi-based scumread on dunn in silent star 3

[Infinity 324]

hard to explain, it feels like he's expressing his own thoughts about the game and not caring about what others think, sort of like in radio buzz but much more subtle

[Infinity 324]

toog do you have any reads

[Infinity 324]

To relitigate:

Somebody said that Gamma was trying to get into the chair
I said that they already had a chance to get into the chair if they wanted to
Somebody said that they wouldn't self vote into the chair because they wanted to look town

Even if point 3 is correct, that doesn't make anything tmi (or even wrong... the first point never said anything about looking town, the third point expanded on assumptions that were unsaid

this is fair

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, you've made this assumption twice now that the people pushing Gamma the most are more likely to be a stagehand now that Gamma is probably a contestant - first with me, and now with Prism. The problem with that is the fact stagehands knew how the chair in the first phase would work, and that it comes with a heavy risk of the chaired person simply OMGUS executing their pusher.

good point although we don't really know how much scum knew about this. it at least tempers my read a little bit

i didn't think you were scum for pushing gamma per se more that i felt you should've re-evaluated but you didn't

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: ydrasse

[Infinity 324]

i don't think we should really be worried too much about galron/ydrasse wanting to vote themselves, if they're scum there's a good chance they're just trying to make it seem like they want to be voted. it's unlikely the duel is actually a good thing

[Infinity 324]

Why did Gamma shoot Cephrir instead of shoot Galron again?

because he wasn't allowed to

[Infinity 324]

fwiw i would vote infinity here to die in a normal game because she was actually in that last game where my motivation drained to the point i was actively trying tog et killed to not be a liability in endgame + she's saying that there's like, a bar i need to meet or something i think (?)

which is like... what. you just saw me throw the bar to the ground and you arent factoring that in

never said anything about a bar? i just like, think it's +scum for you to be demotivated still, and i don't have any other scumreads, and you didn't seem like you were gonna make yourself readable anytime soon

if you are then great

[Infinity 324]

Why give scum any power here, though? If they're better informed than town and STILL want to be voted, why feed into that goal?

i think it's more likely that the duel is bad and galron/ydrasse are scum who are trying to make town second-guess voting them than they're scum who know the duel is good and want to get in as a result

[Infinity 324]

what makes you come to this conclusion...?

i just don't think it's likely that the duel is good, especially since we know one of the duelists dues. if scum has to use their second sabotage then great. i don't think it's would be good game design to have the event be "haha you were supposed to be voting town into this but you had no real way of knowing"

[Infinity 324]

that's a very wifom-y approach to take to this and i'm unsure why you're going to that

i think it's more wifom-y to try to read into what the event is based on theoretical scum actions that based on what makes sense mechanically

[Infinity 324]

modwifom is best wifom

[Infinity 324]

i guess what i am saying basically is i do not like having to second guess and think "what if THIS happens" every event ._. i wish we could just treat it like "always just treat like scummy person has to go in" or something but i know that won't happen because we don't know evens ahead of time

here's my perspective

yes it's possible that we're supposed to be voting town but

the most likely outcome is that we're supposed to be voting scum, and the setup is at least designed so that we're supposed to think that we should be voting scum, so i think we should try to vote scum and if a weird twist happens then so be it

i don't think that we should let scum actions influence our thoughts about the setup

[Infinity 324]

i also think the way galron and toogeloo played event one is +scum now that we know what the chair actually did

hmm why

[Infinity 324]

i also think the way galron and toogeloo played event one is +scum now that we know what the chair actually did

hmm why

because galron flatly didn't care about getting voted and toog played like a jester

sure, but what's their plan to not get executed after that? or was their plan to just use the chair as a nk and then get executed

seems like not a great plan

[Infinity 324]

@peta i don't really agree but fair

[Infinity 324]

I'm reading Cakez' ISO now and about 10-15 posts in I think he's scum

What are the rest of you doing lol

hi unwnd! how much have you played with cakez?

[Infinity 324]

Elaborate? His early ISO just from skim had a ton of landmines. My readrate on Cakez is pretty decent as well. He spent a lot of time being in that mode of 'ugh need to catch up' where he makes idle comments while not really interfering with what's going on.

weird he always feels like this to me

[Infinity 324]

@dunn who is scum (besides cakez)

[Infinity 324]

i'm not sure if that last post is addressed to me or ulyana

~
also iforgot to say this earlier but i'm kinda losing my earlier townread of infinity

why

[Infinity 324]

not sure, it's one of those sort of reads that has to be maintained by the person doing townie things and i've not been getting that out of u so it's kinda fading

ok you're probably not going to townread me this game then

[Infinity 324]

i agree with unwnd's read on dunn

[Infinity 324]

I don't know your own experience with Dunn but I do know we were in RPG together where I defended you (correctly) against a Ydra/Dunn team where I finally had the gumption to vote Dunn out. Are you seeing lack of parallel from that?

I mean yeah, I feel like the pattern you pointed out is generally true for dunn

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about Ydra suspecting you? Like

Give me some ramblings. I wanna know where you are right now.

i feel like usual on d2s, which is that i have too many townreads, but this time there are more medium townreads on hard to read players.

like toog, dunn, your slot, saber, etc.

i was actually thinking that ydrasse suspecting me for pushing her is town-indicative

toog doesn't care about anything which is towny but he could be playing into it intentionally i guess?

saber feels towny on tone and she mindmelded with me when i though gamma was scum but that's about it

your slot i have very few solid reasons to townread but especially in his conversation with ulyana before he replaced out, he felt like he was trying to sort without caring about how he was perceived

these are the slots i'm trying (and mostly failing) to sort through atm

[Infinity 324]

@unwnd yeah i often get frustrated with ydrasse scumreading me, but i took a break from mafia and am more calm this game, i'm not totally sure why she's scumreading me but i think the most likely explanation is towny omgus

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

What about from your own position? I've seen you wrestle with your read on Ydra before and it just seemed like you had strong insight gained from not even interacting with her. I remember this even from RPG actually

wasn't i badly wrong on her in rpg?

i mostly feel like she hasn't been playing and there's not enough to read her off of yet.

[Infinity 324]

As was I, but I felt the struggle? I'm tilting my head at you just going 'yup towny omgus'

i mean, it's a weak read, and imo it's the most ai thing she's done this game so /shrug

[Infinity 324]

i just felt like she should have more standing wrt experience to know that i do this as town

to be clear: i do know that and you did mention it before

i do think it's a bit +scum though. and there wasn't really anyone else i wanted to vote

[Infinity 324]

It ain't me

the song that i thought of was this one

[Infinity 324]

okay well i have poasted some

how do u feel

not too much besides the omgus thing tbh

[Infinity 324]

Didn't you just say I looked towny too

Like wtf

'Yes I would shoot u'

Yes

but that doesnt make sense with how im thinking about the game

why can't it be t/t

[Infinity 324]

is there that big of a difference between gamma being 90+% to be town and 100% that it should affect how i approach my reads

[Infinity 324]

is there that big of a difference between gamma being 90+% to be town and 100% that it should affect how i approach my reads

Depends, what's a baseline contestant percentage for you?

If you are a contestant, it's very dangerous game to start assuming certain players are contestants and then base reads off of them, it's the same reason why pre-flip associative reads are often as good as rolling a dice for your reads.

baseline contestant percentage is 9/13 or 69%

pre-flip associatives based on srs suck if they're based on strong TRs they're fine imo

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: gypyx the rare scummy inconsistency imo

[Infinity 324]

@gypyx why is saber town

[Infinity 324]

like how does gamma see gypyx voting toogeloo in this situation and think ah now there we go that’s consensus

i think gamma probably misremembered the number of people who sred toog regardless of his alignment

[Infinity 324]

@gypyx why is saber town

~ ~ ~ V I B E S ~ ~ ~

if you want something develloped i could try and do that though

yeah that would be helpful

[Infinity 324]

here, the delay between the post really feels like some live thoughtprocessing, like "yeah that's curious" "oh wait scum would act like that too" which is pretty damn townie i think you'll agree

idk, i feel like it's just as likely to be "how can i justify this as being scummy"

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: gypyx the rare scummy inconsistency imo

fwiw he seems pretty out of the game and not like caught up or anything
and i can see a universe whre town-him just forgot what he was thinking about the game earlier

sure, but it's unlikely he thinks about the same thing twice and comes to opposite conclusions i think

[Infinity 324]

also this is more or less my exact feeling on the matter so

maybe i'm wrong then lol

UNVOTE:

[Infinity 324]

also maybe i'm still biased from the prism iteration of the slot but my overall view of the slot is still +town

this feels like not the best way of treating the slot when prism is so good at scum, i feel like we should treat it more as a blank slate

and yes gypyx's content hasn't been too bad but it hasn't been super towny either, and i feel like a lot of other people are townier

even dwlee i feel the same way about them that you (and me) do about toog, which is that i think scum!him would care more and be doing more to get tred (i don't see the early game thing as a fake townslip tbh)

[Infinity 324]

also this is more or less my exact feeling on the matter so

maybe i'm wrong then lol

UNVOTE:

kinda think you backed off of this a little too easily

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

[Infinity 324]

i mean i'm gonna look at it as a composite of both people, i can't just toss out half of it altogether

and i guess gypyx is just the opposoite for me. it hasn't been good but like it isn't scummy either, and most of what he's doing can be reasonably explained by irl things that he's alluded to (tests, being tired, etc)

i don't know anything about dwlee so i can't speak for any meta there, i'm not sure i've even ever been in a game with them before

my read on dwlee is influence by meta, since i've seen them try hard more as scum, but it is a small sample

still though, i think that logic applies in the abstract whether or not you've seen someone's meta

i'm sort of wondering where else you're looking if not to dwlee (and maybe me) but then again unwnd hasn't really towntold yet

[Infinity 324]

taly would talking through some things help? idk it happens often that i disagree with my trs cause i approach the game differently from most people, but i also don't have a super solid view of the gamestate

but also i feel like with peta specifically it's kind of in character for him to be dismissive of your sr there and also it makes sense, like he said he's not really in danger of being limmed

[Infinity 324]

I put my preemptive vote for something like Ydrasse/Infinity in the event

I think resolving those two would be useful and yes I do think one scum is contained in them

do you have solid reasons to think ydrasse is scum if i'm town?

[Infinity 324]

holding onto the read means that a) i'm claiming pets and gypyx are both scum but i townread peta or b) gypyx is scummy for having a thought process that town also had which is pretty questionable

fair enough

Mindmelding is not as much of a towntell as the memes would suggest

sure but it probably means that thought isnt a scum-indicative thought

[Infinity 324]

this is how i feel right now

Spoiler:

ydra is town

[Infinity 324]

i also greatly dislike any suggestion that infinity would be a worthy elim

i feel like i've asked you this before but you seem to be pretty solidly townreading me and i'm not sure why

[Infinity 324]

i'm serious about ydra being town btw i just thought it was funny to quote the post i did

i don't really know about unwnd but i'd be ok voting him here

[Infinity 324]

i appreciate you taly gn

[Infinity 324]

Reading Ydrasse as a contestant because most of her frustration seems to stem from the fact that she's outraged that stagehand-unwnd thought she would be an easy misexecution to push this game because she's apathetic. Her pushing back at that and righteously stating 'she won't be rolled over' and 'you picked the wrong person to pick a fight with' comes from a really contestant perspective.

scumpost imo, putting effort into something that's kind of obvious and doesn't really need to be explained

VOTE: saber

[Infinity 324]

unwnd still at e-1 and infinity moving the default second duelist off herself onto saber

wasn't dunn the second duelist?

[Infinity 324]

Do you have any thoughts on what I said on unwnd?

no, it doesn't do anything for me and i'll think about it more if there's a chance unwnd doesn't get in the duel

PEdit: i'm confused what you're getting at then

[Infinity 324]

this is how i feel right now

Spoiler:

ydra is town

do you know she posted that gif as scum to get a wagon off her on day 1 in team mafia


that was on my mind in how i was reading her outburst last night but while i think the, uh, passion or whatever is null the way she's going about it feels more real, in terms of the indignation at how unwnd is approaching her, and it's calling on specific things being said rather than just using emotion purely as a way of getting heat off her

Infinity, is this 'effort' in saying Ydrasse is a contestant different to mine?

yeah, i think it's saying something more nuanced in terms of "there's a similarity to a previous game where ydra was scum but here's how it's different"

[Infinity 324]

people posting in the thread ATM please tell me your read on cakez right now

lean town

[Infinity 324]

like it just doesn't feel like town behaviour from any of them?

i don't really see how this is scummy from toog or unwnd and gamma is close to locktown to me anyway though i do think that behavior was anti-town from him

i didn't realize saber was now the second biggest vote-getter now so sorry

[Infinity 324]

Well, that's not how I operate, Infinity. If I'm expressing a read, I'm explaining my thought process along with it. Your issue seems to be more so with my playstyle.

that's not good enough at this point in the game

@peta if you want i can iso him, i don't really have reason except the vibes feel similar to when he's town and he doesn't seem to care about how he's perceived, i have a hard time coming up with concrete reasons to read cakez

[Infinity 324]

why would a town be rushing a duel that included them? like i could theorize information that mafia could potentially have that would make it make sense? but i can't really think of a town motivation for it,

he's tilted and done with the game seems like the explanation to me

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, it should be obvious why a contestant posts their thoughts about players as they catch up, obvious or not. Ydrasse was just a while ago in stagehand-range for many, so a read on her is not going to hurt.

unwnd + Infinity? Infinity taking advantage of Gamma's vote on me to start a wagon.

Infinity's flimsy reason to vote me and to go from 'unsure about Saber' to 'this is scum' seems to be taking advantage of something.

i don't often see town explain in that much depth a read that most other people seem to share

regardless you were probably at the bottom of my poe, everyone else has done towny stuff. i feel similarly about toog, gypyx, dwlee, and unwnd but i at least have small reasons to think they're town

[Infinity 324]

he's tilted and done with the game seems like the explanation to me

okay how does that apply to toogeloo?

and also like,

when it is both of the potential duelists pushing towards the duel between them,

and gamma also thought toogeloo was the consensus choice? due to him wanting toogeloo? but now wanted to move the vote off of toogeloo onto saber? because the other duelist wanted it?

ok, i see what you're saying about toog now, but i highly doubt toog would care about being included in a duel as town

also i think toog being the second duelist isnt really a big deal because they only had two votes and that could easily change

i also don't really give that much thought to gamma being confusing because he often is (<3 gamma)

[Infinity 324]

mostly i don't think toog cared

[Infinity 324]

@peta sorry i read cakez iso and came to the same conclusion as before. the towniest thing i can pinpoint is the indecisiveness on you

[Infinity 324]

have i seen him as scum recently? i remember among us mafia which i spectated but that's it

[Infinity 324]

menalque's C9++

i took a look at this game, and i was null reading him most of the time there and he didn't have the same vibes imo for whatever it's worth

[Infinity 324]

i feel bad but...unwnd still isn't towntelling imo

also i'm not super convinced about the cakez case but at this point i'm ok sheeping it. kinda done with this phase tbh

[Infinity 324]

Actually read the wall.

i did...

[Infinity 324]

Then give me what you agree/disagree upon? I didn't do that for exercise you know

i'm having a hard time engaging with your specific reasons, and i might go into more depth tomorrow but basically:

disagree on toog. most likely outcome is not that scum!them decided to do nothing and try to get townread

kinda agree on saber

i liked skitter's early game interactions with me tbh now that i'm thinking back on it. though i'm not convinced she's town.

peta feels town to me, there's a bunch of things that i forget right now, i'm a bit worried that he's pocketing me but i'm not sure why it would be me. i don't think i've come across as a player that's particularly easy to pocket in our games

the gist of it is that i don't feel like he's playing to an agenda, and is organically reacting to the events of the game

taly i strongly disagree with, i think his posts are ~presented~ in some ways but i mostly think that's his playstyle and he's a lot less stiff than when i've seen scum!him

[Infinity 324]

Simplify it as

Why waste a Sabotage (I am assuming they're x-shot, there's no way scum get free reign to sabotage every event) if your teammate is the one at the helm of the event?

because you get a free extra kill on whoever you want without any additional exposure? like i don't understand how that isn't like a button the scumteam would always press

well we don't know what the sabotages do for the other events, and maybe the scumteam didn't either. so they could've thought saving their sabotage was worth it

that said, gamma gets insta-exed if he decides to shoot pooky himself, so if the scumteam could predict the TRs on gamma afterwards, then sabotaging makes a lot of sense

regardless i'm not entertaining a gamma-scum world anyway

[Infinity 324]

i feel bad but...unwnd still isn't towntelling imo

also i'm not super convinced about the cakez case but at this point i'm ok sheeping it. kinda done with this phase tbh

his walls as scum are a lot more empty

unwnd? that wall felt pretty empty to me tbh

[Infinity 324]

Based on your own dissertation it sounded like you just disagreed

That doesn't mean my brain isn't working, we're just not on the same wavelength

if you're town, i'm sorry, i just can't construct a realistic model of town!unwnd based on your posting

and i've been trying

[Infinity 324]

like 'towntelling' about not knowing how many sabotages there are and such

where did he do this?

[Infinity 324]

i don't agree. i was wrong on him once because he tends to ramble as town and i had no idea what to think. but he's making points and they're fine and make sense it's not all obfuscation and inconclusiveness

can you explain to me why he actually scumreads skitter then? how about taly?

[Infinity 324]

disagree on toog. most likely outcome is not that scum!them decided to do nothing and try to get townread

I don’t think Toog’s plan has been to get TRed, just to coast
So while unwnd’s specific logic is not good that doesn’t make the read wrong IMO

fair enough, i'm not deeply attached to this read it's just not the first place i would look

like wouldn't you try to do at least a little if you wanted to coast?

[Infinity 324]

i feel bad but...unwnd still isn't towntelling imo

also i'm not super convinced about the cakez case but at this point i'm ok sheeping it. kinda done with this phase tbh

this gives me MAJOR ick
literally no WIM at all

why is that scummy? i don't believe there's much more productive that will come out of this phase

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: unwnd

gotta stop being indecisive

[Infinity 324]

This game isn't toxic, there's a lot of material to work with, I don't think it's IRL related. So why is Infinity barely playing?

first of all i'm not barely playing

second of all i did talk about this to skitter towards the beginning of the game. i took a break from mafia and i feel a lot more relaxed and less emotionally invested in this game than others. it's a good thing and it lets me enjoy the game more but i might not towntell as much (though i'm not suspected as much as usual eithe

[Infinity 324]

hm ok
who do you have as scum besides unwnd right now? I just re-ISOed you and you definitely have done more than I remembered but I have like
zero grasp on where you actually want this game to go
you feel very go-with-the-flowy

i don't have strong scumreads yeah

{taly, gamma}
{ydrasse, ulyana}
{peta, skitt, cakez}
{toog, dunn}
{saber, gypyx, dwlee, unwnd}

i have too many townreads and most of this day phase i've been trying to sort out who of the bottom tier is the worst

and whenever i vote someone they start townposting or there's a reason to unvote so ahh

like unwnd just started townposting

ahh

[Infinity 324]

<3 feel better ydra

[Infinity 324]

Why is Dwlee at the bottom end of this? Just cause they scumread you?

they could be in the above tier because i'm not sure scum!them plays like this, but it's just because they haven't really towntold

pedit: that's fair i guess but i think scum could reasonably play like dwlee has played, for me it's not really enough atp

UNVOTE: