Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Prism]

Leave it to petapan to steal another unpaid actor's line

I'm tired and will play tomorrow.

[Prism]

I'm not gonna lie I'm actually kinda down to get voted first

If there's an actual trial and one gets acquitted, perhaps there is a prize!

[Prism]

Can you, yourself, review the timeline of my suggestion and why I chose not to react to Pooky's?

Bonus if you can guess where the word acquitted originated in my mind

[Prism]

My point was that Pooky's came after, and yes I was asleep. Some of your points this was irrelevant but there was one that had the order reversed.

The word acquitted came from trial, bur post 25 was jokingly pointing out that it may be an elimination or a setup for a further game. The last line having "perhaps win a prize!" was meant to be intentionally overly optimistic.

[Prism]

Also this may be shocking but Pooky and I have nearly zero in common as players or as people

[Prism]

I don't know how serious you are with the suggestion that Peta prefers to bus as opposed to doing it as a last resort but I look forward to you getting crushed the next time he rolls it, this game or next.

[Prism]

Nothing about my thinking involved being an IC.

This is a bastard game where we have incomplete information on the event and presumably will not get more.

[Prism]

I am entertaining this line of questioning my process in post 25 for now but I am unlikely to for much longer.

[Prism]

...Are "acquitted" and "innocent" equivalent words in your mind? I would again point you to the word "trial" and the many ways it can be interpreted

[Prism]

This is a bastard game where we have incomplete information on the event and presumably will not get more.

right but we also know that the mafias have more complete information, so it is good to theorize about the information we are lacking, both for reading people and for making better decisions

Right, but there are many different pathways or possibilities. If I don't point at the same one as this dude who thinks on another planet from me, it means zero. If I magically know the path, it means more.

[Prism]

The takeaway from this for me is to not joke, not even on page 2. I will never hear the end of it. Save it for the dead thread/postgame.

[Prism]

I think I've explained all I can and you're on your own for now.

[Prism]

1. That conditional is false
2. The If clause is false
3. The then clause is false
4. The post's second line was a joke

I am out of patience.

[Prism]

1. That conditional is false
2. The If clause is false
3. The then clause is false
4. The post's second line was a joke

I am out of patience.

you were not obligated to respond to this in the first place, it seemed to be very speculative to me and not an "i want to eliminate prism"

I actively encourage you to join in on this speculation and make out with a clear picture of my alignment from it in return for the last several pages.

[Prism]

Do you people know what a trial is and what a desired outcome is for a defendant holy shit

[Prism]

Gamma is a character straight from Kafka's Trial and that is not a fucking compliment

[Prism]

This has smashed MathBlade's record in WH13 for quickest way to tilt me to no end

[Prism]

I am out. I am not responding to anything even tangentially related to post 25 moving forward. If it's page 200 in 3 way and that is the deciding question I'm still going to fucking ignore it. I am out.

[Prism]

VOTE: Prism

[Prism]

There's a difference between dwlee, who is concerned my reaction is in line with "scum caught for the wrong reasons", and reasoning that is so egregiously terrible that it is unsalvageable and has zero to do with alignment.

I welcome your lectures on how to play anytime, Infinity.

[Prism]

I sincerely hope this is on purpose to rile me up. I hope this is not you thinking you are doing a good turn and failing so completely that you instead made it worse.

[Prism]

Prism

, why vote yourself for the potential reward instead of someone else?

It is now personally advantageous for me to get it regardless of the result.

[Prism]

I would encourage you to think critically on the categories of results and why all of them might be positive to me now but not on page 2.

[Prism]

VOTE: prism based on page six

Be more specific. If you are right, you can do better than this.

[Prism]

what do you think of taly and pooky volunteering?

I did not think anything of Pooky's and found Taly's townleaning.

Taly's allusions to potentially sharing motivation with me (where my motivation was to either get the power to make a unilateral mechanical decision or to get voted out of the game entirely) was wildly off base but I do not think it was done with the intent to sway me.

[Prism]

The events, sabotages of events, and the corresponding outcomes of the events are the only mechanical deciders of the game. Who we select will definitely matter, and the decisionmaking power within each event could be zero, could be only the players inside/outside of the events, or the game at large.

ie. Yes, we will gain advantage or cede advantages to the scumteam according to our decisionmaking in events.

[Prism]

@Morning Tweet

Addtionally, the stagehands have a two-shot factional ability to sabotage an event. This will typically bend the rules to their favour, and it may cause the game to contradict its previously stated rules. An event being sabotaged may or may not be publicly announced!

When is this sabotage ability available for them to use? There are several conceivable configurations (Anytime, prior to event publicly announced, prior to event beginning after player selection, variations by event, etc.)

I am especially curious if the first event is open to sabotage at all.

[Prism]

The wording of "contradict its previously stated rules" seems to suggest either anytime or after player selection

[Prism]

Reading your role PM and the publicly available might be a good starting point for the game rather than asking the other players to explain all of it to you.

[Prism]

Why would I expect that? It's trivial to fake.

[Prism]

Ah, shouldn't, yep.

[Prism]

You don't seem deterred by the tilt earlier, but does anything else stick out to you, Cephir?

You haven't really weighed in on any of the surrounding people.

[Prism]

I'm not really thrilled by Gamma so far. This extended touching of tonal bases is extremely lackluster.

[Prism]

Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke

I was the first player who brought attention to the fact it may not be a straightforward elim.

The specific way I did so was a joke and a reference to the term "trial". What is the "actual tangible game thoughts" you think are at issue here?

If you insist that it is unlikely I connected the word "trial" with "acquittal" except by some form of internalized guilt, can you please cite one of the 6+ scumgames of mine you have seen where I have ever been worried for even for a moment about my ability to dodge a vote?

[Prism]

didn't like most of what he said but 276 is amusing enough reasoning

am i giving too much credence to it being an "out there" theory

Bluntly, yes. My read on it was the exact opposite.

[Prism]

didn't like most of what he said but 276 is amusing enough reasoning

am i giving too much credence to it being an "out there" theory

Bluntly, yes. My read on it was the exact opposite.

I will speak more about this at a later date.

[Prism]

If I had tried to sway them from self-wagoning, I wonder how different 192 would've looked

I believe you're referring to my reaction to you. "Not trying to sway me" meant not trying to sway me you were town, not that you were trying to sway me to take any specific action. If you're referring to my presented motivation regarding wanting either unilateral action or out of the game entirely, I previously forced exactly that scenario on page 1 out of tilt, and later voted to concede the same game as town. I have alluded to similar as town.

My reacting with sheer disgust at bad reasoning and play is not an attractive quality of mine but is nothing new.

[Prism]

You might also remember Scumsman, which I similarly abandoned as scum because the town was not worth playing against.

[Prism]

Peta did you see 300/304 and decide to buy the bus ticket or what?

[Prism]

I believe you had more to respond to, Gamma.

[Prism]

My reacting with sheer disgust at bad reasoning and play is not an attractive quality of mine but is nothing new.

i get it i remain useless and bad at mafia, it just seemed strange to me that people were advocating to be voted, shrug

I was very frustrated by the persistence in bad reasoning but most of my tilt was actually because of Infinity and Gamma.

[Prism]

You missed the important question in that Gamma. I will bold it, highlight it in red, and double the font size for you.

Prism’s desire to be acquitted was a little skeevy and his reaction to being sussed was to claim joke which while technically valid doesn’t negate what actual tangible game thoughts he displayed with his joke

I was the first player who brought attention to the fact it may not be a straightforward elim.

The specific way I did so was a joke and a reference to the term "trial".

What

is

are the "actual tangible game thoughts" you think are at issue here?

To respond to your recent point about "internalized guilt" for wanting a hypothetical trial around me to end in an acquittal anyway, I don't want an answer to this but food for thought: When someone undergoes a trial, what do you think the outcome of the result is for those who are innocent? A guilty verdict? Christ dude.

[Prism]

When someone undergoes a trial, what do you think the desired outcome is for those who are innocent? A guilty verdict? Christ dude.

EBWOP

[Prism]

My reacting with sheer disgust at bad reasoning and play is not an attractive quality of mine but is nothing new.

i get it i remain useless and bad at mafia, it just seemed strange to me that people were advocating to be voted, shrug

I was very frustrated by the persistence in bad reasoning but most of my tilt was actually because of Infinity and Gamma.

Adding to this, while I have come to expect that there will be these random lines of yours that you think it is possible to assemble into a gorgeous track

somehow

and it will appear to me that they obviously never will regardless of configuration, I think you are very valuable as a person, and you definitionally have value as a player. I don't have any judgement on you qualitatively as a player and don't think it would matter even if I did.

I also have lines of thought that I think are beautiful and wind up being awfully invalid knots, and you have some that wind up in fact being quite beautiful.

[Prism]

For Gamma it's a thing because we interrogated Gamma about it. It's a bad point but it's not like he's going door to door begging us to buy it.

For ulyana, she believed my train of thought (thinking/joking about trials and acquittals) was less plausible and natural than Pooky's and suggestive that I was informed in some way.

[Prism]

It's null and I didn't care about it. Trivially rote as scum and basically forced as town.

[Prism]

I actually thought this came later around when I selfvoted. Earlier it means even less to me.

[Prism]

I thought this was the single best formulation of ulyana's point

My point was that Pooky's came after, and yes I was asleep. Some of your points this was irrelevant but there was one that had the order reversed.

yes i know it came after, but i do not understand how you decided that being chosen might be a good option without a similar thought to pooky's, like being ic'ed here seems super super unlikely to me

i think maybe i did not explain this very well,

and if you did have a similar thought to pooky's it is strange that you would not have shared it i guess

My counter is first that Pooky and I are not even remotely close to the same player and I didn't think of an IC, just a whether or not to execute vote, second being that the entire joke was "perhaps there is a prize!" is intentionally overly optimistic and that a standard elim was the most likely outcome.

[Prism]

I'm down.

VOTE: Gamma

[Prism]

so yea im just talking about Taly/Prism

Do you think my play today is a genuine scum attempt to gain mechanical power?

There are a million other motivations but I want to be direct here.

[Prism]

I thought I had taught you an important lesson last time, but it appears I did not.

[Prism]

peta I want to note that this song came up on my recommended and it's us, it's our song, it's our friendship

[Prism]

I'm really bad at learning sorry!

It's fine, I'll punish it the same way the next game or the one after.

[Prism]

I'd do it twice if I could, not a fan of copycats and not a fan of the same scumplay I've seen for 4 years now with basically zero growth.

[Prism]

I have searched everywhere to try and find a way to watch Flaming Years to no avail

[Prism]

I have searched everywhere to try and find a way to watch Flaming Years to no avail

I appreciate it but for language reasons I'm probably going to have to opt for another critically acclaimed hidden gem of 1960s cinema, Pixar's "Cars 2"

[Prism]

I am fairly confident we can and should vote him out at the first given opportunity. If there are no straightforward ways to get rid of scum, the game has serious problems.

[Prism]

Shockingly my reads are mostly aligned with skitter's, minus Ydrasse who is a townlean and maybe Dwlee who is solidly null for me.

My reasoning differs on Gamma, who I'm voting for like three different reasons. (Scrambling to hit tonal bases early, read on Dwlee, reactions to pushes)

[Prism]

I'd rather not have an extended dialogue about Ydrasse today, sorry. Maybe another gameday.

[Prism]

Scrambling to hit tonal bases early

can you give quotes for this?

No because I'm on my phone.

Here's his ISO. Not hard to see, go down the first like 6 posts.

[Prism]

Infinity is scummy, skitter's post is less scummy, but if infinity is scum it reads like a way to distance without actually pushing. Also the gamma vote. Gamma probably is town

I eagerly await the case for Gamma town with what is on the table in this game.

[Prism]

Shockingly my reads are mostly aligned with skitter's, minus Ydrasse who is a townlean and maybe Dwlee who is solidly null for me.

My reasoning differs on Gamma, who I'm voting for like three different reasons. (Scrambling to hit tonal bases early, read on Dwlee, reactions to pushes)

What even is this tonal base shit
Also I don’t believe I’ve had an opinion on Dwlee yet so that feels like a load of crap

We have previously discussed my expectations for your scum gamestarts in Coalition. You have even referenced our discussion in other games. The fast joking around with the stronger players at the table are a redflag to me, especially when some of them don't even seem to make sense (peta's response pointed out you just had a win over him, though perhaps something qualitatively about that game negates that)

For dwlee, I am referring to the read/reasoning given in 276. I will speak again of this at a later date.

[Prism]

Infinity is scummy, skitter's post is less scummy, but if infinity is scum it reads like a way to distance without actually pushing. Also the gamma vote. Gamma probably is town

I eagerly await the case for Gamma town with what is on the table in this game.

Gamma can be scummy as town

I am very familiar with Gamma. I have not misread Gamma in a single game we have played together on the scale of something like 10 games.

It would help if, rather than presenting a possible world where I am wrong, you justify

your

read on Gamma.

[Prism]

Are you going to apply any rigor whatsoever to your own reads or continue to shoot down those of skitter and myself because your gut tells you skitter/Infinity and therefore Gamma is town and there's no reason to delve into the questions more deeply?

[Prism]

I guess 523 is something.

[Prism]

Miraculous given that every single game I've played as scum against him I've townread him, let him get eliminated for free, and had him never learn from it.

I guess I got tired of pulling the same tactic.

[Prism]

No.

[Prism]

You literally do not take feedback. Trying to get you to critically evaluate my slot has been a project for 4+ years now.

For your townplay I have highlighted the tactics I used against you as scum again and again and had you fail to punish them.

For your scumplay I highlighted it for you that you had a terrible habit of putting all of your scumteam in your scumreads and you proceeded to keep doing it in your next several games, which I'd have to find later as I don't want to comb through them right now.

[Prism]

Where’s the thought process that maybe I was deliberately tilting you as scum?

This would be an immense improvement and I hope that would be the intent. My money is not on it.

In addition, you mention my “hitting tonal bases” thing was an issue from my first 6 posts, but I believe your little potshot at me came after those.

You can clearly see in my ISO when I calmed down and started revisiting the game more rationally. 196 I start by responding to ulyana's question for me about other players. I follow this up by revisiting the mechanics and asking Morning an important question we had overlooked.

Again a bit later I decide to really chew on people's reactions to me. The first was Cephir. You were next. I immediately pointed out my problems with skimming your ISO, had a dialogue with peta on one post, and investigated it further.

[Prism]

My 143 towards Infinity was very insincere and malicious. I never once thought it was intentional from them regardless of alignment, as I don't think Infinity believes in using that as a scum tactic.

[Prism]

It was probably the right play to do every game for the entire year of 2020. I hope it has been defied since, but it was not my comment that made you do so.

[Prism]

Right now I'm not trying to help you. Right now I'm playing a game against you, I think you're scum spouting garbage and I want you flipped.

[Prism]

Correct. Have at me.

[Prism]

I'll have this typed up and ready to go before you even say anything.

I started by checking the game late at night and made a few posts on my phone right before bed. I say as such in my opener.. No careful attention was paid to players at this time.

When I next check in on the game, ulyana has already spent a page or two discussing my comment about trial/acquittal. The rabbit hole of tilt begins and I spend all of my energy on this, because it immediately leaps out to me as a waste of time and better to end immediately. Very little careful attention was paid to players at this time, and it gets worse as ulyana persists, Infinity fails to calm me down, and you make one of the worst speculations I have seen about how defendants wanting to be acquitted is internalized guilt I only get madder, am not really sorting, and this was not out of my expectations at any rate.

From here, my next steps where I actually step back, say forget about the ulyana/post 25 dialogue, and start sorting were given previously:

You can clearly see in my ISO when I calmed down and started revisiting the game more rationally. 196 I start by responding to ulyana's question for me about other players. I follow this up by revisiting the mechanics and asking Morning an important question we had overlooked.

Again a bit later I decide to really chew on people's reactions to me. The first was Cephir. You were next. I immediately pointed out my problems with skimming your ISO, had a dialogue with peta on one post, and investigated it further.

I look forward to seeing the issues in this progression.

[Prism]

Probably scummy and not the same rigorously competitive mindset I am known for.

Ball's in your court. There's an issue with me only suspecting you in 277 as opposed to earlier/later so teach me that I'm the one who needs to learn a thing or two about how to play scum.

[Prism]

Correct. Have at me.

As for this, my issue in this case is the use of the word “extended”. That comes off as something you’ve been seeing for a while and just then chose to vocalize. And yet you just now claim it was a reaction to seeing my ISO. If feels more like you saw a potential angle to push me on and went after it.

"extended" is an adjective referring to your behavior of touching bases rather than the length of my observation. This was not only the start, 29, 125 but later into the Pooky interaction in 275, which others took different issue with.

[Prism]

How am I “teaching you how to play scum” lmfao
This sort of narrative deflection does not look well on you.

I'm challenging you to bury me if I am scum and made a mistake, because I don't think you can.

[Prism]

I think you're scum that has bitten off more than you can chew, that you're flying by the seat of your pants and are spewing garbage in the hopes that you find something, and I am more than eager to punish you for it.

[Prism]

VOTE: petapan
You’re not getting away from me this time.

"Listen up! Four of you are not really true contestants, but fake implants sent by the studio to steal all the prize money! Gasp!"

*Warning: Gunshots are in the song*

I've always wanted to wagon myself. VOTE: Taly

A vote for me is a vote for town sitting on the electric chair.



What are y'all gonna do?

Taly is TOWN

I have given 3 different reasons to scumread you, with the reaction to me being a cherry on top.

You have asserted that I am pushing you as scum in bad faith and that my read does not line up. You could not show the latter. The former you seem to have abandoned in favor of a critique that I'm playing too seriously and aggressively in the hopes that others do not follow for personality reasons.

[Prism]

Quote+ bug from grabbing quotes/links before strikes again. The quotes are irrelevant, it's a response to 568.

[Prism]

Rereading this it looks like you're still clinging to the bad faith assertion.

You have seen many of my games. This "machismo" and overaggression is exactly what I do, game after game after game, when I have a scumread. I sincerely hope this is not the first time you have noticed it in the event I am wrong and you are town.

[Prism]

I'll take a step back and let others play the game, and potentially let Gamma breathe for a moment if he's town and prevent making this labyrinthine and inaccessible if he is scum.

To say I am unconvinced is an understatement though, I strongly want to flip him.

[Prism]

I think 555 covers my progression from wanting my own elimination to turning my eye more critically towards Gamma, particularly the part about what happened when I calmed down.

Regarding your (Taly)'s push for the chair, I believe that is the motivation

if you are scum

, but as discussed previously you are a townlean.

[Prism]

Also, to go straight off the deep end logic-wise, your little post link paper trails reinforce the idea that you’re overly self-conscious.

I encourage you to supplement your case for this with meta and your 4 years of experience with me as a player if you believe it to be scummy.

[Prism]

Strange that half this table, every single one of whom have fewer games with me than you, can readily vouch that I am this aggressive and pull out receipts like this in a flash as town, but this is the most pertinent and scummy point to you.

[Prism]

Alright, if I post again in the next few hours someone slap me.

[Prism]

There is no truce. I am letting others play but I want your head on a pike ASAP.

[Prism]

FWIW skitter while not 100% this Infinity is very reminiscent of how she was in Forest Fire with me as town

[Prism]

Gamma is still by far my #1 choice but I would not mind flipping all three of Gamma/Cakez/Ceph from what I have seen so far.

[Prism]

That is a great imitation though

[Prism]

Any substantive game comments to make on the last 3 pages, Dwlee?

[Prism]

Still very comfortable with my vote.

I weirdly expect more reasoning from a scum Cakez after WH13.

Ydrasse has been grilling Gamma all day. Vote isn't a surprise imo.

[Prism]

Gamma's tried like 4 different playstyle shifts, all of them unnatural/one-dimensional and all of them with the goal of getting the vote off of him rather than legitimately sorting. We're far enough along that people have forgotten the phase where he pretended to be scum to WIFOM us into going elsewhere.

[Prism]

If I'm r/iamverybadass I guess Gamma's r/iamverysmart

[Prism]

I'm still surprised you even know how to work the internet. Blew me away when you shared the Twitter meme earlier

[Prism]

Pretty sure the reason you never post from your cell phone isn't for game/life balance but because it looks like this:

[Prism]

I'm just kind of in a holding position at the moment. My reads look something like this, if anyone wants to talk about them

Buckets are sorted roughly T->S.

Town
=====
Taly
Pooky

Townlean
=====
Saber
Infinity
ulyana
Ydrasse
skitter

Null
=====
petapan
Toogeloo
Galron
Dunnstral
Dwlee99

Scumlean
=====                                                          
SirCakez
Cephrir          

Scum
=====
Gamma Emerald    

[Prism]

I've felt increasingly good about how Taly has interacted with the game. He used the space in a universally beneficial way and has done a bit of digging. I guess less follow-up than I'd like on things like the links but this is splitting hairs.

Pooky I townread a lot of how he's approached the game mechanically. I do wonder if he's just letting me throw but I'll figure it out with flips on the table.

[Prism]

Any townreads, Gamma?

[Prism]

Taly
possibly infinity/skitter

Found these and would love to hear if there are any others+any justification for them

[Prism]

Has anyone talked about the sabotage ability? I could see scum not fighting to get chaired if they can just change it up. But I guess the timing of the sabotage makes that an issue. So really we need to get someone to E-1 I'm thinking to see what happens. Since it's a 2-shot ability, it seems to me we should get them to use both shots early-game.

Yes, the biggest barrier right now is that we do not know when it has to be used.

The fact that the game started with the event voting

immediately after confirmation phase, which scum cannot be expected to make a decision in the middle of

, suggests to me that scum does not have to decide prior to the voting but sometime either during voting or after selection.

[Prism]

Taly I’ve noticed has felt flat as scum recently and her play this game is very not-flat

Taly uses he/him and your use of "machismo" to describe me immediately after recognizing my pronoun field did not go unnoticed.

[Prism]

I personally do not find it offensive to be described that way but the timing made me tilt my head.

[Prism]

HOW DARE YOU
VOTE: PRISM
THAT IS A FUCKING BRIDGE TOO FAR MY FORMER FRIEND
I’M TRYING TO GET BETTER ABOUT THESE THINGS. I DO NOT APPRECIATE YOU INSINUATING SOME SORT OF ILL INTENT IN MY MISTAKES.

If you didn't have ill intent, and you're trying to get better, that's great. Acknowledge the mistake and move on and I will accept that. I don't think reminding you makes you a victim.

You're someone I play mafia with. You're not a friend. I don't use this website to socialize.

[Prism]

Gamma got spunk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Prism

Do you believe I am scum for those posts or simply that Gamma is town?

[Prism]

I am glad we were able to get one read out of you. Perhaps reviewing the other slots, or even my own, might prove useful to you.

[Prism]

I want an apology for 829.

He can keep his vote if he thinks I'm scum but the all caps, lashing out accusation that I have done some great, game-irrelevant injustice to him by checking him on his gendered word/pronoun usage is bluntly unacceptable to me.

[Prism]

the only one of the townleans i'd quibble with right now is ulyana because i don't think she's done anything town-indicative

there's poking at things with questioning but i haven't seen it move in a meaningful direction yet to give me the sense that it's more than aimless banter

The persistence in reframing+questioning her point on me reminded me a lot of Isaac. I've also previously discussed with her about whether or not the crystalline palaces of logic every really assemble into something beautiful.

I do agree with you to some extent, because I originally had her higher up the list. I moved her down because the scum-Shiki I've seen was only the really limited Trust Fall game.

[Prism]

I apologize if you felt like I meant to use machismo to misrepresent your gender
But there were more responsible ways to broach that instead of posting 827 imo

This does not suffice for me. I will not post again.

[Prism]

can people play mafia and chill out kthx

Obviously I do not want to play mafia, and the amount of effort I put into this game, every game, and avoiding social interactions reinforces that this is a desired outcome for me rather than something I feel is forced.

[Prism]

[Prism]

Here's some emotional support if you need it peta:

[Prism]

I played this game like garbage, had 3 scum in my null/townreads.

That said:

The way Gamma Emerald slot got townread if scum is fucking disgusting

That slot lived by forcing me out of the game entirely, and it's disgusting.

[Prism]

I thought all of Event 1/2 was extremely rote but forcing the person shoving you out of the game by misgendering people, refusing to apologize for it, and selling your own legitimacy by posting about breaking the ongoing game rule is absolute horseshit.

[Prism]

For reference, this makes 4 times asking this person not to engage with me.

He has a right to respond to my claims about him in a public audience but I have

-Told him to leave me alone
-Told him to stop talking to me privately
-Told me to stop talking to me publicly
-Told him once more emphatically to stop trying to engage me

Only to have it disregarded 3+ times and counting. He can make these posts without directing them to me, it needs to stop.