Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

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and just like that, at the 11th hour with all hope lost, the hero arrives to save the show

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i wouldn't mind some time to read and catch up because like for the first time in my entire fucking life the spirits are telling me taly is town.

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i mean i don't have any reason to think ydra is town but i'd rather check other slots first

i appreciate you taking on this slot

no probs - i appreciate y'all stickin this out. end phases in long games are rough.

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ah right i see what you mean. am i right in thinking we have two elims left?

pedit: yeah i gotchu

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ok ngl reading this game is very inaccessible, does anyone have some juicy interactions with some flipped scum or some crunchy high tension gamestates they can suggest I go read over?

this game is war & peace except worse because it doesnt gave a cliffnotes page I can cram in a couple of hours

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My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince him, not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

i suppose i should address this

these aren't really good reasons to townread someone?

"seems genuine" is vague. it can be said about anything. in my reread, i didn't really agree at all that he seemed genuine. i didn't get into strong detail on most of the pushes in particular, but this by itself is nothing. this was the sort of thing DV riffed on in team mafia 2021, how people were just saying "reck seems town" without any real reasoning behind it.

i think being bullheaded and focused on how people are reacting to opinions are personality traits at best, and have little to do with alignment. there's no real reason scum can't play that way. like, expecting people to follow him or be convinced is town...why? scum want people to follow them. they'll pretend to be open to being convinced if it suits their interests.

the thing is with scum, you are looking for someone who is knowingly advancing the scum win condition with their play. not the stuff you are saying here.

That being said ggooey's quoted post feels like a day 2 read

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i don't find reading games in endgame that hard, even if they're long

all i can really say is i'm happy for you?

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ok ngl reading this game is very inaccessible, does anyone have some juicy interactions with some flipped scum or some crunchy high tension gamestates they can suggest I go read over?

this game is war & peace except worse because it doesnt gave a cliffnotes page I can cram in a couple of hours

For the discerning reader, might I suggest: my iso
Full of 2-3 sentence posts and a svelte 121 posts long, you can find a perspective that finds one scum out of the gate and pushes hard to put two flipped scum (skitter/Firebringer and Harley Quinn/Tamora's Angel) in a lifethreatening event together! Will leave you satisfied without the bloat of an iso that drags on for hundreds of posts with spamposts and ANGY arguments between other players! (Optionally comes with an appetizer of the Blue Deliberation PT and a Heaven PT dipping sauce)

this is actually rly appealing

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Ehh true

I still don't quite follow what makes you clear Ydra, though, Peta

I believe you're both town and my solve is correct, but for the game's sake and TW as a replacement, you might want to towncase her.

took the words out of my mouth

1. i'm fairly confident in my associative reads of her with flipped scum
2. her play doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective, where she's been doing nothing but positioning herself to lose the game for multiple phases, but does make significantly more sense from an uninformed perspective

force feeding me bread crumsb

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when i am mafia i am cool and smart when i am town i am incompetent

fuckin mood

I don't think TW scum enters endgame to WK a doomed slot especially when it's such a different perspective he's taken from me in games.

He gains effectively nothing by this stance, no?

this is like.. exactly something i would do as scum to be as bafflingly uninformed as possible
i'm also not that smart and "bafflingly uninformed" is my middle name so i would prefer you sort my slot off what's coming // what gamma has done

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I don't think TW scum enters endgame to WK a doomed slot especially when it's such a different perspective he's taken from me in games.

He gains effectively nothing by this stance, no?

that

entirely makes sense from the perspective of someone who is informed but has absolutely no knowledge of the gamestate


i'm not saying it

has

to be the case, but

i don't think it's clearing and i think at this point you're just confirmation biasing every new piece of information to support your interpretation of the game

yeah this.

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if anything i feel like tw may have came on a bit

too

strong in that opening but that is my own subjective bias at play and, as i said


i don't read a lot into what people do and say in this phase


the answer is in the backlogs, it just has to be found

1) all of my opinions are objectively perfect and i need the world to know. how dare you imply anything otherwise.
2) agreed on every count including the coutns i hate.

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Tw why am I town?

initially, your tone and broader approach here doesn't seem to align with your scumgame. the best examples that leap into my mind are dated but the basis for my understanding of your scum meta goes back to pypx/y, echo bay grits seo etc. and i still think there are tenets i'm right on. your case on ggooey doesn't feel like it needs to be right, it feels like it needs to be heard. i don't read individual points there and go "mm taly has a point" i read individual points there and go "mm taly believes this".

the more i'm looking back over this phase too, the more i'm like. you have exactly one wincon here. that's getting an ydrasse elim across the line today and then setting up something tomorrow. i actually genuinely think that you're fine with going down here and for last scum taly, that's not a viable path to endgame. if you're scum your only vector to survive this phase is either hard pushing ydrasse into probably ggooey tomorrow, or convincing me to push ydrasse. i think you're listening to peta's criticism of your read on me too well to be working this angle. i think scum-you is perfectly capable of SOUNDING like he's being the big hero and laying his life on the line while actually working towards something else and tbh what you're doing here looks fairly transparent.

i feel really fucking weird about having a gut feeling that you're town but i also don't feel wrong.

now that i've waffled about how good a pocket i would be for scum taly here i still don't get why anyone is townreading ydrasse?

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oh nevermind then that makes this much easier

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in the whatnow

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I was being goofy while I hunted down the pt you're talking about but I actually can't find it I'm sorry

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ok minor crisis of confidence as I realise that his ggooeey case came directly after I replaced in and akshully getting that down and looking townier than ydrasse for a hot minute then getting an elim through on ggooey is exactly a fine path to victory as scum

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if Taly lets himself die today I'm pretty sure he's town

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Oh. I can see the heaven pt. thank you, i hadn't made the heaven=blue connection.

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@peta reading over your skitter=>ydrasse analysis, skitter's m.o. here would be to find a teammate who could go the distance (assuming it wasn't her) and distance really heavily from them. employing the same tact with all of your teammates against a strong playerlist is dangerous. that being said i actually find myself nodding along more often than not

this right here is him coming in and randomly defending someone when he contributed not much to the game at all. does he think he can actually take the heat off Ydrasse with this? probably not. on its own if i had to guess i'd say this is a TMI read

need to verify but given dunn's scum WIM pattern this likely has merit.

saber's reads on ydrasse don't interest me much.

i actually really like this exchange between skitter and ydrasse for ydrasse? i know she's capable of that sort of theater but it feels a bit off the cuff, a bit of legitimate annoyance with skitter, and i don't think skitter spends this long in thread just arguing with a teammate

this + next couple of posts didn't do anything for me but as a pattern,

i think the end of this exchange with ydrasse is pockety. skitter acts like she's satisfied with ydrasse and tries to set her about doing work, it's like, okay, you have satisfied me and proven yourself to me, now do my bidding

the resolution quoted in this post does ring pretty heavy. did skitter go back to pushing ydrasse? this kind of fits within how scum!skitter approaches pocketing i think.

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i forgot to write my read on you in haiku. my bad. i'm working at the same time and this game is juicy.

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y'all are too kind to me.

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Just got off work and catching up with someone shortly so take this word vomit.

I think I kind of..get it and it's a bit deflating. I guess out of ydrasse/taly ydrasse has striking associatives with flipped scum (if peta doesn't do the work for me ill probably pore through skitter's iso eventually to check my suspicions). Her play today similarly to ggooey's checks out as scum who is comfortable with the gamestate so accounting for having not been here for some 260 pages I'm kind of leaning on other people's reads here. I'm gonna be honest my strongest tell on Ydrasse is that her lategame scum / groupscum carry WIM wanes heavily and this kind of checks out as scum who doesn't feel like they need to do anything rn. I'm also very wary of skitter's scum ability and deliberately spewing a lategame carry is a LOT more valuable than pocketing someone like ydrasse who is just a completely reasonable nightkill if town. I still don't know what she wanted me to check about ggooey in the pt I can't work out so our sole real time interaction gives me hard :shrug: energy.

that said tbh I don't have the time to deep dive this!! I don't want to blindly sheep so I'm kind of asking the room in an act of desperation is anybody else seeing this at all or am I playing 1d chess?



I think I get the Taly thing. the more I dwell over his play rn the more I'm like godfuck like yeah sure if taly is scum he's over a barrel and chaining an [ydra>ggooey] lim path is just gonna be really fuckin obvious and maybe he just does need someone else to champion his defence lest he die upon his hill having tried his damnedest not to just follow the obvious path and maybe I'm just drinking the kool aid. and if his associatives with flipped scum aren't up to ydra's then like. yeah this is a consideration towards a blind spot and stuff its just a bit *crinkles nose*

I'm still keen to iso dive ggooeey and maybe I should treat everyone to a PBPA of his iso just as a treat but that doesn't feel pressing but my reckless soul tells me if I was an event 9 one shot dayvig I'd just shoot him and see what came out. this isn't helping I'm sorry. I'm more interested in working out ydrasse I guess because if we're being finessed it feels like it's there.




as soin as i hit submit on this post I will forever CURSE this game and petapan's alignment will suddenly shift to scum and we'll all lose but if he's the last scum that's not something I'm going to work out today.

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i've put in the work and made my judgment, if you want to argue otherwise make a case but i have no need for idly trying to chip away at the read

don't think this is a fair characterisation of what I'm doing here.

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see e.g. popcorn where (as vulture) she tried to distance herself from enchant/lukewarm to set herself up to endgame: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87343

very standard stuff

here she didn't really claim any pelts and was just kind of weak toward skitter

and the whole dynamic between her and skitter was off, it was atypical or scum distancing. most scum play it very vanilla, you push me, i push you back type stuff, e.g. the skitter/dunn interactions, which i eventually realized weren't clearing. here ydrasse basically doesn't punch back at skitter at all. were it a different player doing it i wouldn't consider that clearing but i don't think they'd be likely to fabricate that particular interaction

this is cerebral and is about what I was looking for. thanks.

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so, hypothetically, there's a world where skitter, feeling the heat in the Pink Room, starts to feel her enthusiasm for the game dropping and tells her teammate to bus her so they can endgame. it's not an implausible narrative at all. so, gammagooey's immediate case on skitter isn't really as clearing as i thought.

but is that the most likely scenario? i'm still not sure about that. there are other factors that have to be considered.

this does make me feel a lot better particularly around ydrasse fwiw. skitter is hard to read in a vacuum and I'm aware everyone has some level of tell but it is pretty comforting that skitter's associatives conform to a pattern.

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Sharon van Etten & Angel Olsen are my scumbuddies irl.

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I'll argue with ya'll about why I'm not scum when taly is dead if the game isn't over then

As for Harley hating me in particular aside peta I think it was because I (and I think peta too) was referencing Saber a lot when we were talking about our read on the slot instead of specifically talking about Harley Quinn. She had a post I think near when she replaced out saying that she didn't like people talking about her while not addressing her directly.

at this point I just think it's you. if it isn't you, and it isn't Taly, taking the sidelines just because you're getting the elim you want is exactly what will let a deeper wolf in ydra/peta/me take the game away.

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I'm also very wary of skitter's scum ability and deliberately spewing a lategame carry is a LOT more valuable than pocketing someone like ydrasse who is just a completely reasonable nightkill if town.

there are no nightkills

me 6 hours ago: buhh worst fake dumbtell?????

waht me!!!?? never

I was in a kind of abstract nail biting trance while unloading my thoughts about ydrasse there and I think I was aware there weren't night kills I just wasn't thinking about it.

That's also something I'd probably forget if a scum current phase replacement and also something I'd try to fake for the comedy. Being blonde irl is a fucking rollercoaster.

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awooooo

mood

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I'm like caught up and spoiled on my alignment and there's a bunch of stuff there that makes my brain go ~wobble wobble~ ama

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passing references to flipped/replaced players in 289 that I'd need to double check to understand but am also mobile, disinterested in sorting my own slot, and would rather claim scum with musicians

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so I guess I can firm up my brain by getting to a pc and working out what everyone was talking about specifically but my answers on GEmmy are mostly gonna be "ohhh okay"

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oh galron and unwnd and ggooey makes that page a lot less complicated than I thought it was `-`

Pedit: shut up, 'lim me

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The last few pages fucking suck to read and I'm not invested enough that they're doing anything for me developing reads. I doubt that Ggooey is deliberately upsetting people to make his position in the game more favourable. He is like, lovely in my experience and id be genuinely surprised if that was his angle here.

Taly, I'm going to hammer NAY. Do you have more you want to do?

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Taly's Words of Wisdom for Elo

i laughed. I hate it.

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I feel like ydra allowing us to beetlejuice her should mean something but mostly its just funny atp

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down to wait til taly dog gifs up to 1k posts

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mostly because there's this little deranged voice at the back of my consciousness whispering that he could still be scum!!!! and I think it'd be really funny if that voice was right and we saw the game out with the scum carry posting doggo gifs

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footage of me mentally after 1 1/2 months of this game

honestly me after 1.5 seconds of this game

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VOTE: nay

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*hugs everybody*

see yall motherfuckers in therapy

oh dearest toucan
should this not end this damn game
you shall be avenged

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I'm fairly across it, yeah.

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I will do like, due diligence in f4 but I think that's correct. :shrug:

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I don't really see any benefit in doing anything but yelling @ each other then eventually ringing the bell.

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Gamma can you give me a rundown on where you see scum-ydrasse or scum-peta?

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basically that.

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I feel a certain way about a self defence that makes me scumread the self defender more than I did prior to reading it

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I keep writing up posts then deleting them. I'm not gonna be a dry thunderstorm. Don't mind this pitter patter, the rumble will come when it's ready.

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i have thoughts in my head but i need the worst to post his thoughts in his head

whatcha after

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i should ideally be waiting for ggooey to finish so that i can respond without ~guiding~ but i'm very mindful that i'm not clear so whatever.

don't think peta is scum here. i'm going to own that peta does have a strong scumgame, but every time i've read through some part of the game or another ft. peta he seems to be powertowning and i don't think his scum wim is that high. the gamestate since i've replaced in has also revolved around peta as core town - taly was solving with peta yday, ggooey/ydra both seem to be proceeding on the basis that he's town. i don't see anything that really makes me think otherwise and tbh if he is powerwolfing then the game is bent into such a pretzel that i'm not sure how to begin unpicking it.

fmpov the decision is really in [ydra, ggooey]. i generally agree with the points peta makes about the associatives between ydra & skitter (can talk thru his analysis if this is going to help). the biggest thing that gives me pause is that her energy pattern seems to more closely resemble her lategame scum energy than lategame but given this game is a fucking mammoth my stock in that sinking feeling is devaluing p quick.

@ggooey can you talk me through your decision to create the [taly,ydra] dichotomy yesterday? i'm aware you've cited a few posts of GEm's as unlikely to come from scum fypov but as far as i can tell these are principally tonal reasons?; can you expand any more on why you were/are suspicious of ydra or if there is more behind your read (former read?) on my slot?; you mentioned a motivation for that pairing because fypov eliminating the two of them was the path to victory. did you see a world where taly wasn't yesterday's elimination?

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so. there's high postcount, and then there's pressing your head as hard as possible against a brick wall and trying to run through it with ALL YOUR MIGHT when afaict nobody is asking you to do anything more than a leisurely saunter. posting up a storm when you've already lost as scum is a fucking blast, consistently overplaying over the course of two months when you're already winning is a lot more draining.

though even if i concede that point i don't really think it erodes the balance of my point. i just like arguing.

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i don't have a lot to add! this phase is probably disproportionately easy for me to solve or something because i don't need to solve [gamma,gamma]. hit me up if y'all need me but i'm finding ggooey predictable and unconvincing.

scared the worst is coasting thru quietly not giving as many thoughts but game is long and hard to think about

basically yeah, i'm coasting.

VOTE: petapan ydrasse the worst

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I feel like a significantly easier target than Taly or Ydrasse, and you still forced a dichotomy between them yesterday based on some vague allusion that flipping the two of them would win the game only to accept the first argument to the contrary and start half-assedly pushing my slot today. getting an elim on someone and then establishing my slot as scum today is like, an extremely clear path to victory. what you're trying to paint as a read reconsideration on me & ydrasse looks like waffling about two players who you know are town, and i don't see any conviction in your reads.

I would like to know what you have gone through and your general thoughts on those sections of the game.

can you give me any guidance of what you're asking for? i've read everything since i replaced in, and have reactively commented on it. i've leafed through random parts of yours/ydra's/peta's/taly's isos and read around some quotes from peta's case on ydrasse to kinda broaden my awareness.

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that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

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that seems like an absolute tonne of work and why would that help anyone

I don't want quotes, I know that'd be an absurd amount of work

but like did any thoughts that come to mind about like 'oh hey this person being pushed by X is weird given Y' or more broad things like 'This important thing in X event was mostly because Z & A talked/pushed this' while you were reading?

Your choosing a dichotomy of [taly,ydra] to lim yesterday strikes me as pretty wild.

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yes i'd find it significantly less wild if you put up my slot which you apparently think is scum for elimination??

you're literally asking someone who caught the last 15 minutes of a movie to provide general commentary about the movie. like, i have absolutely no notion of what you want from me. i have opinions about what's happened since i've replaced in, and i have cursory knowledge of some parts of the game which i've read over while already knowing the alignments of like 3/4+ of the people involved.

i'm not going to go do busywork because you think it's something i need to do to deserve to be part of the winning team or something. i'm wary that i'm privileged by knowing the alignment of my slot given that this gamestate hinges on ydrasse & peta being town. that doesn't change the fact that picking random shit to vaguely comment about is a gigantic waste of everyone's time.

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ah, firmly the latter.

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i'm definitely chillin yeah - i can talk very-late-game replacement theory post-game if we want. just kinda another page on the pile of stuff that doesn't help anyone solve fmpov.

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just moving themselves to my view

didn't quite catch this happening like, in the heat of the moment, but it's definitely true.

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depends a lot for me but I'll talk about it more post game.

don't think I need to go into my issues with 7471.

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Mindful it's easy for me to see nefarious mindset in pushes on my slot. Lol.

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The sense of relief I feel right now

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more than I expected to!!

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i'll be around if i can like, help at all

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that's a nostalgic film choice. jet li is awesome.

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@peta - I appreciate it, and I did overreact to the vote.
I thought 'if he thinks there's ANY chance I'm town why is he doing this when it's clear I'm confident enough in it that I'd be 100% pushing on Taly tomorrow too if he lives' and immediately posted a reaction instead of stopping to calm down and think about that literally everyone but me would need to vote Nay for Ydra to die on a tiebreaker and it had a 0.001% chance of happening. (Though I do have a funny/dumb anecdote about something similar for post-game)

Also I have a dumb analogy about last event so hopefully something amusing can come out of all the frustration earlier

You, Taly, & I are a family arguing about who took all the cookies last night.
I'm the boring middle brother with whatever personality traits you feel are appropriate
Taly is the younger brother who keeps poking me over and over again and saying I stole them - it's annoying but he just wants to be right and convince mom that he's right so she'll buy him more cookies
You're the older brother, and sometimes you say things that come across harsher than you mean them to - I don't know if it's to provoke me so you can figure out whether I actually took the cookies, or you're just used to talking with friends that way when they know that you don't mean it. I felt mildly insulted by you for something else & was feeling generally frustrated with the entire cookie situation and exploded over something that seemed worse to me than it actually was.

but obv the important thing is that dad got high last night and ate all of the godamn cookies

this is so damn cute.

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please don't forget us peta

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Good game all! Sorry to peta, ydrasse and taly. You were all phenomenal. <3
Gamma, balance of scumteam - appreciate y'all doing the heavy lifting!

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I'm not sorry I was so high and those cookies were delicious good lawd

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Dead thread was a blast to read. I think all I can really add is

Subject: Slaughter Hour: Grand Debut | All Shows Must End

duck just blatantly not trying, looking peta and ydrasse in the eyes, "vote me you dumbfucks, you won't, i smell the fear in your soul"

shrug. gamestate.