Mini Theme 2244: 3d20 uRoll – Somewhere In New Jersey [End]

[cyrus62]

i see VOTE: save the dragons

[cyrus62]

so i have a few ideas. 1st one if everyone who rolled cult but didnt get it type the letter c. if you didnt roll cult type the letters n/a . and if you fudged a dice type fudge and what dice you fudge . for me it would be n/a fudge dice 2. now you dont have to play along if you dont want to . but this might help us find out if there is a cult or not.

[cyrus62]

im only here to help town. so my ideas may not be best. but at least im trying.

[cyrus62]

Why would you fake claim scum that's like the most anti-town thing you could possibly do

Why would you claim scum as scum?

There are two potential answers to why Loftwing is Loftwinging:

Loftwing is lolcatting or Loftwing is Jester. The first is NAI. The second is potentially game ending for scum. If somehow Loftwing IS cult, that's actually the biggest threat to all of the individual scumteams.

tl;dr Scum should definitely shoot the person who can maybe end the game, and not just to set up a vig claim down the line. Similarly, Loftwing is a pretty good vig target. Loftwing should not be the elimination today at all.

VOTE: Quiet Owl

work with me.

[cyrus62]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

[cyrus62]

so i have a few ideas. 1st one if everyone who rolled cult but didnt get it type the letter c. if you didnt roll cult type the letters n/a . and if you fudged a dice type fudge and what dice you fudge . for me it would be n/a fudge dice 2. now you dont have to play along if you dont want to . but this might help us find out if there is a cult or not.

What stops them from lying?

nothing but we cross that when we come to it. Even the mod said feel free to lie about your dice role since there's no one to prove it.

[cyrus62]

My idea is simply unless you rolled cult and didn't get it you have no idea if there is a cult. What does the seven mean? Does it mean there are 7 town two scum two wearwovles and two aliens or does it mean there are six town,One cult 2 scum two wearwovles and two aliens? Which is why I askd what I did . I'm not asking for your rolls or even your role I'm just asking if you rolled cult and didn't receive it?

[cyrus62]

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So... are we going to claim our dice rolls?

no becuse day1 that only helps scum or cult. Doesn't help town.

[cyrus62]

although I wonder how many town power roles we have I will not hunt or role fish . I do think ssbm could be scum with the way they are trolling so far.

[cyrus62]

So... are we going to claim our dice rolls?

Very bad idea. If you're a PR, you'll be nightkilled. If you're not a PR, it's easier for scum to find PRs. Lying about roles seems pointless unless you're trying to attract nightkills?

This is true. Mass claim will most likely be day3 . Any way. So far no one seems to be trying to help the game.

[cyrus62]

Let's try this . If you could pick a dice roll what would it be. My would be town rampaging day vig.

[cyrus62]

I would be the best day vig . Mahahaha lol

[cyrus62]

I did not suggest that we claim our roles, but our dice rolls.

Dice rolls directly affect roles. Hell, even which roll you applied the fudge to would give info to a scum lord paying enough attention.

That gets tricky see 1 though 20 no one knows what number you rolled . Or if you added or subtracted or what number of the 4d dice you rolled unless you state it. For example jack rolled a 6 7 8 =21 jack states he fudged a dice but doesn't state if he went up or down or what dice he fudged leavening scum to . A wonder if he's being truth ful about his roll or if he's lieing and if he's being honest what one did he fudge and what number did he get and did he add or subtract .

[cyrus62]

I would be surprised if you rolled Day vig, because there is no day vig.

I said what role would you pick if you could lol.

[cyrus62]

I would be the best day vig . Mahahaha lol

If you were a rampaging day vig, who would you target?

Strange matter . They feel off to me from the 1st game I played with them.

[cyrus62]

I would be the best day vig . Mahahaha lol

If you were a rampaging day vig, who would you target?

Strange matter . They feel off to me from the 1st game I played with them.

I mean I'll take that as a compliment (since I feel like I improved and changed a lot since then as Town) but since I'm here, can you elaborate?

You feel as if your not realy adding any meat to the game kinda like all your post are spam . Don't get me wrong I like spam when you fry it. But I haven't seen any real scum hunting. My idea was to 1st to establish if there was a cult or not and to see who was willing to work with me. You seem more worried about hiding under the radar then to hunt and find scum.

[cyrus62]

Bingel also feel like scum to me he hasn't added any help besides rejecting all my ideas.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: dw you here?

[cyrus62]

I would be the best day vig . Mahahaha lol

If you were a rampaging day vig, who would you target?

Strange matter . They feel off to me from the 1st game I played with them.

I mean I'll take that as a compliment (since I feel like I improved and changed a lot since then as Town) but since I'm here, can you elaborate?

You feel as if your not realy adding any meat to the game kinda like all your post are spam . Don't get me wrong I like spam when you fry it. But I haven't seen any real scum hunting. My idea was to 1st to establish if there was a cult or not

and to see who was willing to work with me.

You seem more worried about hiding under the radar then to hunt and find scum.

At this point I really don't think I have anything to really say that hasn't been already said, but I agree that we really shouldn't be eliminating Loftwing today.

We realy don't even know if there is a cult or not . All I know is I didn't roll cult. But unless some one comes fourth and said they rolled it and didn't get it. All we know is loftwing claimd it then said it was a gambit. So that's a strunt I don't like I say removing them for the fake claim is a good idea. After all cook stated jester is non game ending. Counting on scum to hit him is a bad idea. If they are cult letting them grow in number puts are prs in danger . But whatever. I want to hear from west and dw.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: cyrus

speak to me on my ideas do you wish to play along or should i pick on you ?

[cyrus62]

Actually it isn’t very similar but I remember why it was done and that the concept of that gamble seems kind of similar but not the same.

So during that game I wanted to test my meta read on two players, Roden and T3, where they played the game similar to another game and pushed Roden with an intentionally bad reason and hopefully get a reaction out of T3, and go to spark discussion in at the time was dead.

my isuse is he didnt even wait for a reaction before he foled and stated it was a gambit.

[cyrus62]

i like cyrus and strangematter for town

you would.

[cyrus62]

Because it was? I'm not sure what answer you want from me here.

now this makes me wonder is loft just scum hoping to make it another day or do they play this way as town?

[cyrus62]

Okay I’m just bad, but what was the thought process behind the gambit, or better yet why did you do that gamble?

this kinda feel like spoon feeding.

[cyrus62]

Bingel also feel like scum to me he hasn't added any help besides rejecting all my ideas.

Oh? I think I’ve done quite a bit more. For example, I’m very serious about my vote on Owl.

really what have you done besides trying to break the game and your one vote you havent given a case? in four pages you came up with a solid read on owl?

[cyrus62]

Game doesn't say jake is here.

[cyrus62]

I did not suggest that we claim our roles, but our dice rolls.

We claimed rolls last time this setup ran because roles were created, then shuffled and redistributed. This time the setup is different. Did you get something different than what you rolled?

I had to check. It's the same. So never mind claiming rolls.

If you rolled cult and didn't get it. It means there is a cult.

[cyrus62]

If you rolled cult and didn't get it. It means there is a cult.

I wish. I rolled boredom.

Don't buy this for a second . Even though it was just a 4 sided dice . If you knew how to use it you could basically go from being plane anything.

[cyrus62]

@cyrus:

Bingel also feel like scum to me he hasn't added any help besides rejecting all my ideas.

Oh? I think I’ve done quite a bit more. For example, I’m very serious about my vote on Owl.

Do you still think I haven’t done enough? Why? Why did you think that in the first place? Who has done more?

I have dul. Well your not , exactly the worse here . I mean west hasn't posted and dw only did a few post. But you haven't realy played ball I. Am here trying to find methods to find scum easier but you seem to some how found scum in 38 post.

[cyrus62]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

??????

Like I know I'm guilty of skimming Cyrus's posts but how did NO ONE at least ask about this?

Cyrus what is this post

Your silly I was hoping no one askd about it becuse . I can not answer this.

[cyrus62]

If you can't answer that can you answer who your scum partners are please?

I'm not so sure does the rule claiming scum with someone else only work if you are scum? I mean if you can claim scum with someone else when your not scum I will name my partner. "wink wink"

[cyrus62]

Come on dude the joke only works if you use your head.

[cyrus62]

Who is your scum partner west? See can any one real answer that queston since claiming scum by your self is fine claiming scum with someone else isn't.

[cyrus62]

Btw town watch who votes me becuse intent to claim at e1 @encant you better not hammer until I do. Then I want to vote either dragon of the west or dw off .

[cyrus62]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

??????

Like I know I'm guilty of skimming Cyrus's posts but how did NO ONE at least ask about this?

Cyrus what is this post

Like use your head do I hide as scum or town. No. As scum I try to mingle or prod to see if I can get town to fight. As town I'm always going 100% most of the time unless I'm bored . So what role could I get that would make me think it is best to hide? Keep in mind I have towns best interest at heart. I think your role fishing VOTE: dragon of the west when I voted dw it was to try to get him to post. I real feel dotw is scum here looking for ity bity things to push to get elmnation . You state you 100% disagree on keeping the cult claim alive past day1 but you vote me. The guy throwing out ideas to scum hunt . Do I do that as scum. No I disencouage it why would I say mass claim d3 as scum huh. I'm calling you out you are not town. You are either cult or alien or ww or scum but you are not town and I won't stop voting you this game as a result till proven other wise.

[cyrus62]

Cyrus do you think dotw and I are scum together

Yes or on diffent scum teams.

[cyrus62]

But you haven't realy played ball I. Am here trying to find methods to find scum easier but

you seem to some how found scum in 38 post

.

This seems more like an argument that I HAVE done a significant amount, than the opposite. If your actual complaint is that I'm not engaging with mech ideas I think are bad other than to point out why I think they're bad, I don't really have a solution to that. I'm not going to advocate doing things that I don't see leading to scum eliminations because... Why would I?

How do you feel about my reasons to scumread Loft and/or Owl? Do you agree with the logic? Do you disagree with the logic? Why?

i thought you didnt want to vote loft. and owl dose not feel scum like to me. my idea was not so much to lead to scum but to try to understand if there is a cult or not and if so who it is. cult should always be d1 vote.

[cyrus62]

If you can't answer that can you answer who your scum partners are please?

I'm not so sure does the rule claiming scum with someone else only work if you are scum? I mean if you can claim scum with someone else when your not scum I will name my partner. "wink wink"

VOTE: Enchant

Can you talk more about your alignment roll? Did you subtract or add?

i didnt have to touch that one. i said 2nd dice which is roles and no i dont want to give more hints on it.

[cyrus62]

I don't think NM was actually claiming jester. This conversation feels pointless

The conversation isn’t about an extant jester claim, but rather that any jesters SHOULD claim because doing so guarantees their win.

@Loft: Jester has to be eliminated at some point before XLO or we simply lose in XLO because a non game ending jester in this setup has a trivial wincon. Today is the day with the lowest chance of limming scum otherwise because duh. Scum has no reason to shoot a jester claim. All of that is objectively true. Your argument is functionally: we should wait to eliminate jester until we potentially have nka and/or investigative results because maybe we’ll win without hitting XLO, in which case… we would have won the game anyway.

We would still get to XLO in the same number of days with or without executing a Jester.

Suppose the setup is as follows:

9 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Jester.

Assume that Mafia always kill town.

When will XLO be if we don't execute the jester?
When will XLO be if we do execute the jester?

this is a attemp to lead town in to thinking it's just 9 3 1 when we know there is 7 something is that 7 town or is that 6 scum types and one cult meaning 7 unknow vs 6 know. Dang my theory's suck.

[cyrus62]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

[cyrus62]

Sorry loft your questions came during my post so let me aim at that

[cyrus62]

@Bingle Fine. We will burn down a Jester that claims if that will make you happy. I still think it's a cop-out answer for scum not needing to actually scumhunt. (I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

@Cyrus uhh wat. What?

WHAT???

How the hell did you draw that connection for my oversimplified and clearly not realistic diagram of not this game?

Why are you acting wired bingel is not town here .

[cyrus62]

Dw how many games are you playing?

[cyrus62]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

No one is suggesting there is a Jester.
I don't see much reason to think that 7 means 7 townies. There's nothing that mechanically confirms or denies that, and 7 is just a 51% majority of 13

I'm saying it could be mean 7 town. Or it could mean 2 scum 2 ww 2 alien and one cult and 6 town.

[cyrus62]

Ok I dislike that thought cuse that would mean once we vote someone off we could be down to 2 town d2

[cyrus62]

But cross kill would happen .

[cyrus62]

Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it.

If Cook is providing game relevant information via flavor without having advertised that, that is explicitly bastard influence and moderator interference in the game and she's definitely in the wrong, given this is a Semi Open. Additionally, it's shitty moderator practice. If you think this is the case, I suggest you actually PM Cook to check, as her rules explicitly tell you to use PMs.

Ok then. I don't know how to respond to this.

[cyrus62]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

??????

Like I know I'm guilty of skimming Cyrus's posts but how did NO ONE at least ask about this?

Cyrus what is this post

I
I was ignoring it as a PR softclaim, tbh.

It does look like something that one would say in the scum werk room.

If it was anyone besides Cyrus I'd be more inclined to give space for it being a PR soft.... But it's Cyrus and reads like a PT!slip

Your going feel real stupid if you keep going down this path. @town can you assure me that once I claim due to west pursuing this path that we vote off west since it will hurt town once I do so.

[cyrus62]

So help me aim at scum btw what is scum minus the s asking for a friend?

[cyrus62]

page 10 is becoming garbage . could we just think of a way to find cult.

[cyrus62]

Makes note to town skip page ten I think loft and bingel are working together .

[cyrus62]

Cyrus, who do you think is most likely to be cult?

If I knew that I wouldn't be worried about, my thoughts on people who's posted . Dw null dotw scum or some kind of non town role . Std most town points so far . Strange fell off the map. Bingel could be cult. . Loft some town role where he draws the nk. Ssbm null slight scum lean due to not posting. Or doing much . The rest are null due to lack of content. I'm not sure if I'm looking for 2.4.5 or less I'm up for mass claim d3 but we need a way to know who we trust. Maybe . Maybe we should all heal some one we all trust and see if they have a plain to hunt scum .

[cyrus62]

Mama ru has posted maybe four times I like them for cult.

[cyrus62]

Cyrus, who would you want to kill right now?

Dotw and rider . Rider seemed like they were role fishing if I had a gun with two bullets I would shoot dotw and rider.

[cyrus62]

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

[cyrus62]

Bingle, is there a mech break? Y/N?

Breaking strategy has already been outed and invalidated, but it did exist.

If the question is whether we could maybe break the setup based on roles, we'd have to massclaim to find out and without getting super into numbers which frankly I don't have time for atm I don't think it's likely enough to justify doing so.

Miller types and 3rd party statuses are the only things that should be claiming short of a full massclaim, which is literally throwing the game into the air and seeing what side lands on top.

what would a 3dr party be? Would that be jester sk cult or surviver?

[cyrus62]

If we forced everyone to claim their alignment roll and then provide a 10 digit code that resulted in that roll, it would take any normal scum player longer to fabricate the roll than it would take a town player to hunt down the static string from their actual roll.

I don't think this would've worked for people like me that fudged their alignment roll. But I imagine I was in the minority there

So you fudged dice one intesing . Since it was fudged could you tell us what it was before hand. And this isn't role fishing since dice one decied if you were town or not dice two is role fishing. I'm asking about dice one and I don't want to know what it was fudged to. Just what it was before you fudged it.

[cyrus62]

As a sigh of faith my 1st dice was 2. Yea I know it sucks I could have rolled anything 1 though 20 but I got a 2. So I thought what was the point if I went up it wouldn't change my alligement and if I went down it would have just been some kind of 3dr party.

[cyrus62]

I also fudged my alignment

What was it before hand. I love how two people state this now when I askd on page one.

[cyrus62]

Note more evidence dw and dotw are working together .

[cyrus62]

I think it was 15 and I rolled it down to 12

So na on cult?

[cyrus62]

I think it was 15 and I rolled it down to 12

So your saying your d4 dice was a 3 thank you for at least playing along. And what are your thoughts on a d3 mass claim?

[cyrus62]

I rolled all 3 of my dice in one tag. How would I demonstrate my alignment without revealing a substantial amount of my role?

Just tell us the 1st dice . It only revels if your town cult . Scum or 3dr party.

[cyrus62]

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[cyrus62]

Yes scum can make up rolls it's very sample but the fact they don't want to play along. Seems bad also yes if scum know who is town it scum won't cross kill.

[cyrus62]

this is why i think me posting is hurting town. note bingel may have already found out my role so hes hoping to get me to out it. and i cant express this enough me outing my role hurts town and helps scum. so fucking lay off.

[cyrus62]

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

This is odd, why do you trust Loftwing?

one of the few not actively trying to wagon me or to try to get a better idea about my role.

[cyrus62]

My vote is not moving from west. At the start of every day in my 1st post I will vote west. Till I'm proven other wise or one of us is dead.

[cyrus62]

Two more pages then I will give my Poe . Right now if push came to shove . Dw west bingel mama rue and rider I think town wins if all these players are voted off.

[cyrus62]

this is why i think me posting is hurting town. note bingel may have already found out my role so hes hoping to get me to out it. and i cant express this enough me outing my role hurts town and helps scum. so fucking lay off.

Frankly? No. And I wouldn't even if I were scum.

I care exactly 0 about your role. I neither trust you to be telling the truth about your role being powerful, nor your ability to determine whether your role is powerful in the first place. If indeed outing your role would hurt town as much as you say it would, that's on you for being fucking obvious in the first place. Further, given the way the setup is made, there is a very good chance we have an abundance of powerful roles because people with shit roles can simply fudge off of them,

and your quest for fudge applications has been the single most damaging rolefishing attempt in the thread.

Sure . I haven't acted this way as vt. Nor have I acted this way as scum in the past. So ask your self why would I.

[cyrus62]

Hmm name what number sucks the most on the 3dr dice and why.

[cyrus62]

Yeah Simple on the modifier die is a big woof for me. Finder is also situationally pretty weak on the role die.

@Reg, why are you so concerned specifically with Enchant's alignment die? Seems like a weird thing to latch on to

He wanted to know mine to.

[cyrus62]

this is why i think me posting is hurting town. note bingel may have already found out my role so hes hoping to get me to out it. and i cant express this enough me outing my role hurts town and helps scum. so fucking lay off.

Frankly? No. And I wouldn't even if I were scum.

I care exactly 0 about your role. I neither trust you to be telling the truth about your role being powerful, nor your ability to determine whether your role is powerful in the first place. If indeed outing your role would hurt town as much as you say it would, that's on you for being fucking obvious in the first place. Further, given the way the setup is made, there is a very good chance we have an abundance of powerful roles because people with shit roles can simply fudge off of them,

and your quest for fudge applications has been the single most damaging rolefishing attempt in the thread.

Come at me. Dude I didn't lie last time I played this game. What makes I would this time. You know I think your bad in fact your next in line behind west on my list. Just be happy I never get the role I want . Cyrus as day vig would be so sweet. . I know the role isn't in this game but is thire such a role that could mute a player.

[cyrus62]

Makes note to town skip page ten I think loft and bingel are working together .

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

This, btw, is my sole reason for scumreading Cyrus. I can see the scum slip argument if I squint, but everything other than this weird shade for engaging in scum theater just reads as Cyrus being Cyrus to me.

What is the scum slip?

I said it would have been best if I didn't post and just hide this game.

[cyrus62]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

??????

Like I know I'm guilty of skimming Cyrus's posts but how did NO ONE at least ask about this?

Cyrus what is this post

I
I was ignoring it as a PR softclaim, tbh.

It does look like something that one would say in the scum werk room.

If it was anyone besides Cyrus I'd be more inclined to give space for it being a PR soft.... But it's Cyrus and reads like a PT!slip

This, Dunn.

some prs are better off hiding instead of engaging like I always do . Trying not to draw attention . Which now it seems west has made it very hard not to draw attention to my self. I don't hide ever even as scum but I think my role is best in hiding however as I said I think I already messd up posting and should have hide and maybe posted every 2 and a half days.

[cyrus62]

I trust cyrus.

I trust few here very few .

[cyrus62]

(I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

I have a hard time reconciling this with actual thoughts.

Sure, there are three options:

Continue Game, Lose Game, Win Game. Why the fuck would anyone choose Continue Game over Win Game? How did you even arrive at that being a thing anyone might ever choose?

I don't care if you can reconciliate it with your thoughts. My thoughts aren't yours, and my thought process isn't yours to understand. If I want to convince you of something, then it would be on me to help you understand my thought process, but as of now I've

already agreed to execute a jester should one claim.

and now all the jesters are saying why should I claim lol.

[cyrus62]

Maybe I should have sad mc dop

[cyrus62]

Oh i just realised what you mean.

Yeah, i rolled 4 on alignment and tried to roll it down to 20, but got 1 instead.

This seems odd like you guys were discussing it. Idk encant I kinda thought you were town.

[cyrus62]

I trust cyrus.

Could you elaborate on this?

I lied. I wanted to help Enchant be less frantically defensive to make him easier to read.

So you don't trust me. Well I kinda think you are null you posted like 6 times. How is any to get a ride off you.

[cyrus62]

My vote is not moving from west. At the start of every day in my 1st post I will vote west. Till I'm proven other wise or one of us is dead.

Why do you think West is scum? I had them marked as more likely to be town.

His super weak case. West should know better. My slips like last time come from me misreading my role pm. Last time I cunfused dbl parity cop for muti tasked . Saying I think it was better to hide. Is me not knowing from lack of exp as pr is just being honest. I wasn't going do my crumb thing this game.

[cyrus62]

The answer to my queston to what I think is the worse mod is. Odd or even night it makes the role basically useless..

[cyrus62]

I kinda think dw could be 3dr party or some kinda scum faction this game hence his lack of post. Feels like he's basicly avoiding posting..

[cyrus62]

He's has less post then pages this game. When I was scum with him he didn't post much but let me do most of the post until I had burned out then he started posting a lot more

[cyrus62]

I don't remember dwlee as active player regardless of alignment.

He's normally more active then he has been this game. I'm not on my desk top but I will post some links.

[cyrus62]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go Last time he played this game he posted over 200 times. That's a hell of a lot more then he's done here.

[cyrus62]

In open draft he posted 234 times a lot of post but he was basicly the only scum left.

[cyrus62]

Me have school
Me busy
Mama Ru scum

Your posting from school shame on you. Your supposed to let me paint you as scum dul. ok maybe I'm reading to far in to things.

[cyrus62]

I may or may not need to remove dw from my poe

[cyrus62]

Actually the above post is a bit exaggerated, just it still doesn't make me like Cyrus for town right about now either.

I'm a little paranoid of Cyrus and Loft being scum together, but it feels more like a very big stretch logic wise and my gut says that it's highly unlikely that's what is actually happening. I'm feeling like if Cyrus flips scum then they could be TMI and Loft may be town after all.

Are you like Naaa don't attcak the player that is rule breaking ... Or what you think I'm scum how and why or when have I ever drawn complete attention to my self as scum like I did page 1. And this is the worse play I have ever seen as town . You are tmi right now . You know I am most likely town here you may not be complete sure though since thire are other factions but it's not just that you say if I flip scum then loft might still be town . Your playing from a 3dr party point of view . And I think you just slip. P.s . I think you need to re read my whole day.

[cyrus62]

i'm not sure where these regrider votes are coming from

This feels like a attemp to derail a wagon.

[cyrus62]

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Your point is? I play every game hoping to be scum do I ever get it not realy I get lucky sometimes. So you play hoping to be town? Maybe you got unlucky then.. Maybe encant got what he wanted. Snugs idk tbh with you that's a real weak case.

[cyrus62]

HEAL: loft not that healing is part of this game but at this point I trust them more then most.

This is odd, why do you trust Loftwing?

one of the few not actively trying to wagon me or to try to get a better idea about my role.

You trust Loftwing because they aren't wagoning on you, or trying to get a better idea of what your role is right? I don't see why either just makes people untrustworthy, and feels extremely anti-town. The only time I have a problem with wagons is when they put people at E-1 for one singular reason or multiple dumb reasons to be on the wagon, or policy when they could've actually been making reads and vote someone who is actually scummy.

no it's as I stated he's the only one not pushing a slot that need not be pushed if pushed to far it could ruin the game for town. But hey idk what your wincon is. My wincon is to vote off every one who isn't green and I don't win unless there is only green

[cyrus62]

Bingel play feels as if they are trying to sift votes off of one wagon .

[cyrus62]

Congrats dw your off of my poe.

[cyrus62]

Poe is bingel west strange mama ru and rider .

[cyrus62]

Which wagon is that you think?

The rider wagon.

[cyrus62]

Actually the above post is a bit exaggerated, just it still doesn't make me like Cyrus for town right about now either.

I'm a little paranoid of Cyrus and Loft being scum together, but it feels more like a very big stretch logic wise and my gut says that it's highly unlikely that's what is actually happening. I'm feeling like if Cyrus flips scum then they could be TMI and Loft may be town after all.

Are you like Naaa don't attcak the player that is rule breaking ... Or what you think I'm scum how and why or when have I ever drawn complete attention to my self as scum like I did page 1. And this is the worse play I have ever seen as town . You are tmi right now . You know I am most likely town here you may not be complete sure though since thire are other factions but it's not just that you say if I flip scum then loft might still be town . Your playing from a 3dr party point of view . And I think you just slip. P.s . I think you need to re read my whole day.

I don't even know how to respond to this it just feels like flailing with an OMGUS-like feel to it, I don't get why you think I'm TMI telling when in past games, trying to gauge what someone specifically a player as scum is doing has worked for me in the past as Town, especially in a Mini 2235 where I caught someone shading that my slot being Godfather when it was not, and another slot that also throwing Ascetic and JOAT into the same game for chaos.

I'm going choice to Ignore your post. Since I don't want to break rules due to you realy angrier me.

[cyrus62]

Bingle and STD both want to derail RegRider but you're voting DotW?

Cyrus, who would you want to kill right now?

Dotw and rider . Rider seemed like they were role fishing if I had a gun with two bullets I would shoot dotw and rider.

Also saw this post while scrolling ISO to verify you were still voting DotW. Did you have a change of heart on Rider or are you thinking 2 scumteams, one containing Rider/Bingle/STD and another DotW scum not aligned with those 3?

Yes one cult .

[cyrus62]

Hmm that feels odd.

[cyrus62]

My vote is locked on west.My vote is locked on west.
Pre edit it hasn't been three days since I posted so try checking the list of post In time before saying people need prod you can wait 72hours before posting. I most likely won't post for another two days after this post , since I'm sick of the bs this game . I'm tried of being scum read as town check my fing games I have realy upped my scum game.

[cyrus62]

Seriously, the mod has more posts than >50% of the thread.

More bs I have 101 post this game so far 102 counting this one.

[cyrus62]

@mod the Vic is wrong I voted dragon of the west after I voted dw

[cyrus62]

If there is a vig shoot bingel . If bingel lives to d2 there is a 75% cance they are scum.

[cyrus62]

My vote is locked on west.My vote is locked on west.

Pretend you're Ross Matthews and convince me.

Check the last dice game you will see a diffent type of west that is town west this is not. P.s look at open draft well your at it and your see town bingel.

[cyrus62]

Also idc if any one votes west or not. One day town will learn to trust me. But theta not this day. One day town will realize I only act this way as town but that's not this day. One day town will know I always hit at lest one scum. But that's not this day.

[cyrus62]

Also page top haha.

[cyrus62]

One day town will realize I only act this way as town but that's not this day.

If you can say that and have it not be bullshit it's called trust telling and it's a ban worthy offense.

Seriously, the mod has more posts than >50% of the thread.

More bs I have 101 post this game so far 102 counting this one.

People with more posts than the mod:

cyrus, Bingle, Loft, SM, DW

People in game 13.

8/13 players have fewer posts than the mod, which is more than 50%.

Don't realize how me acting is a ban able I'm just being my self.. I think of it as a town tell. As town I always super hyper go at people as scum which is a scum tail I have to work on I kinda try to blend in. That's just how I play. And if you knew anything you would have realized that was a line from a movie your so quick to yell trust tell or rule breaker . On just any thing I notist are you not just here to have fun. But yea I have been completely diffent this game . I don't think I have ever gone off on people before. No I can't even say that I went off on mb on my last game for being unable to read me. . And I think I was more or less asking for meta dive on the three of us. But yes we should just play your game. I have started lieing more.

[cyrus62]

I wish I had a kill action this game.

[cyrus62]

Loft wing is at e2

[cyrus62]

Hmm shame there is no coin flip on here heads I leave my vote like I said I would, tails I vote reg. Shrugs so since there isn't a coin flip,my vote won't move .

[cyrus62]

Show of hands respond with the letter I . Who thinks becuse of the strange questions posed by loft over reg that they may be partners?

[cyrus62]

VOTE: regrider that's e1 in case next person should give intent and say claim. I flipped a coin and it landed on tails so I changed my vote but d2 it's going back to west.

[cyrus62]

West hasn't posted in 4days regrider is at 3 day 6 hours both over the 72 hour mark std is vla but at 4 days as well.

[cyrus62]

He said something that made no sense now I vote

I'm confused with your grievance.

Like, please tell me what I said doesn't make sense, I'm serious. Enchant just straight up said he walked into the game wanting to be scum.

Caught

I don't see it. Can you explain how this is caught scum?

His reaction indicates to me he thinks he doesn't deserve to be caught yet did anyway

To me, it seems more like someone who's trying to understand why they are being scumread. I can get behind that, it's always a good idea to learn why players scumread other players, and other players include yourself. It's not some sort of ploy to try changing their actions to be less scumread, it's genuinely trying to understand why you think the way you do. If they did want to shift their actions to be more townread as scum, they would either ask you point blank (like they are doing here), or get someone else on their team to ask on their behalf.

In short, I don't see why you see them as any more caught than someone asking another why they scumread a particular player.

is this a slip? Some one on thire team. Isn't all town the same team?

[cyrus62]

I wish I rolled vig.

[cyrus62]

I with draw my town read on loft

[cyrus62]

VOTE: loft this puts loft to l1. Flipped another coin landed on tails again.

[cyrus62]

@loft I would be worried I heard encant is like not mafia they might hammer you loft.

[cyrus62]

500

[cyrus62]

Hahaha I got it nana I got the 500 post.

[cyrus62]

Loft I wouldn't push dw he could hammer you.

[cyrus62]

Well isn't that something loft voted reg but then when it was close to being hammered he started flipping out then he jumps on dw I homely don't think dw is scum here. Maybe a 3dr party at best. As for west he's the most likely scum hereVOTE: west I didn't get as angry last game and west is now useing bad meta . In the last 3d20 I wasn't so worried about my role as I am this game .

[cyrus62]

I’m not about that lolhammer when we should have pending replacements life.
UNVOTE:

This is a cough out.

[cyrus62]

Cyrus is scum and Quiet owl seems to just be trying to fit in and not get an ire directed at them.

Cyrus - what's your take on Quiet Owl?
Quiet Owl - what's your take on Cyrus?

idc i anit speaking to you scum.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Mama Ru this strikes me as cult and last game i found cult day1

[cyrus62]

i may have found away to not get shot if im scum read maybe scum wont shoot me. omg west your completely right i am scum you caught me yes as scum i state i should hide. sarcasm is wasted on people online.

[cyrus62]

Cyrus is scum and Quiet owl seems to just be trying to fit in and not get an ire directed at them.

Cyrus - what's your take on Quiet Owl?
Quiet Owl - what's your take on Cyrus?

idc i anit speaking to you scum.

Hey Cyrus, why am I scum

because your aiming for the easiest mis elimination.

[cyrus62]

Here's a question for @Loftwing. What are you reads right now, and can you please explain them?

Besides Dweelee (who it should be clear why I scumread), here are my current reads:

Bingle is probably town here, mainly considering their response to us claiming dice rolls. In retrospect, their gamebreaking strategy would probably come from a town player, and I was just angry at them for coming up with an unfun strat.

Cyrus seems to have the feeling of being generally incorrect but sincere. I think they go into the townbin.

Mama Ru seems generally absent and isn't hitting most of the town marks I would expect from a player. scumlean there.

Mostly everyone else goes in the nullbin. They haven't shown up on my radar yet.

in all fairness I didn't ask no one to claim thire dice role just to state if they fudge a dice and to put c for cult but didn't get it. Bingel is scum for not letting it go though becuse every one that said c would be 3dr party. Yes I just revealed my plan but it didn't work due to bingel . My plan would have helped town more then scum.

[cyrus62]

@dw you should have hammered when you had a chance .

[cyrus62]

What arguments? All I've seen is boring mech discussion and Cyrus being Cyrus. Closest thing otherwise to an argument is explaining why a low poster who reacted badly to a simple push is likely to be scum and you thinking I'm scum for not having an essay level read on someone with 13 posts

Hey I had a well thought out plan/trap if bingel would have kept quite we may have already know who could be sk.

[cyrus62]

Bingel hasn't helped town. All his talk is bs and a show of distenseing after busing loft to e1 he with draws his vote to wait for reg to get replaced.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: bingelYou know what bingel could be cult or 3dr party or some scum faction.

[cyrus62]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13078992]post 580[/url], Dwlee99"]Regrider please instead[/quote]
It would only put him to 4 votes still not close to hammer range.

[cyrus62]

@mod can you edit that post it got broke some how.

[cyrus62]

Like we need prods and vote counts.

[cyrus62]

I'll hammer loftwing if bingle + Cyrus E-1 him

With bingel unvoteing it puts him at e3 we could both vote him and see if any one hammers I would have rather bingel wait for a claim before unvoteing but I can't control him.

[cyrus62]

@dw ok if you and I vote loft encant will most likely hammer.

[cyrus62]

Here's my lim preference for today:
Cyrus
Quiet Owl
RegRider
Loftwing
Enchant
Kyouko

i warned you if you keep pushing me your going feel real stupid so here is my deal i want to hear you say it the day after my flip that you were completely wrong and that you have no idea how to read me.

[cyrus62]

Here's my lim preference for today:
Cyrus
Quiet Owl
RegRider
Loftwing
Enchant
Kyouko

i warned you if you keep pushing me your going feel real stupid so here is my deal i want to hear you say it the day after my flip that you were completely wrong and that you have no idea how to read me.

I was on your wagon in 3d20 when you flipped scum and not having 100% read rate on someone doesn't mean you can't read them. I'm just making educated guesses based on our past interactions and games. If you want an apology so bad, you can apologize to me when you realize I'm town here and you're just scumreading me for scumreading you.

Honestly, I'll never feel that stupid about scumreading someone that can't even put together 2 consecutive coherent posts. You're either scum or a drag on town

attack the play not the player. i think that post is rule breaking.

[cyrus62]

Here's my lim preference for today:
Cyrus
Quiet Owl
RegRider
Loftwing
Enchant
Kyouko

i warned you if you keep pushing me your going feel real stupid so here is my deal i want to hear you say it the day after my flip that you were completely wrong and that you have no idea how to read me.

I was on your wagon in 3d20 when you flipped scum and not having 100% read rate on someone doesn't mean you can't read them. I'm just making educated guesses based on our past interactions and games. If you want an apology so bad, you can apologize to me when you realize I'm town here and you're just scumreading me for scumreading you.

Honestly, I'll never feel that stupid about scumreading someone that can't even put together 2 consecutive coherent posts. You're either scum or a drag on town

a drag on town. no i wouldn't say that. you did read the setup right. it states that if you roll cult but it was already taken the mod will fudge it in to 3dr party which is why i tried tricking people in to raveling that .

[cyrus62]

Yeah, I think that someone posting incoherently is a drag on town. Sue me

I suck at town . I don't know how to type properly where everything comes out alright . I don't know where to put .,"'',.;- so yes to me that is a attack on me not the way I play.

[cyrus62]

That was ment to be I suck at spelling not town.

[cyrus62]

Someone help me murder Loftwing he's brought metareading into the game.

VOTE: loft

[cyrus62]

So we back at e2 on loft and reg

[cyrus62]

Someone help me murder Loftwing he's brought metareading into the game.

VOTE: loft

Cyrus - what are your thoughts on the QO slot?

I'm not worried about owl here I been reading every post very carefully this game . I don't exactly feel he has a scum agenda here and we would know about his about his agenda by lifts flip owl ask for help to vote loft off so what we do we go by the color of the flip if loft flips green owl may be town. If loft flips red . Owl may be town. If owl flips blue owl may or may not be town and any color besides red or green refuses owls chances of being town.

[cyrus62]

Reduces omg I hate my tablet.

[cyrus62]

Lol the vote switch to. Follow ssbm again so . Ru and loft may be scum together . And ssbm is maybe town or diffent scum here but they do keep following each other.

[cyrus62]

What's with the colour specific theorising? Why would it matter which scumteam Loft is on.

Red scum or other scum have a higher rate at finding each other due to not haveing town blinders on. You see. I am color blind this game so I have a 20% chance at hitting scum of any color. But red knows they are red and is looking for other colors. But scum have 25% chance at hitting a diffent color scum due to wanting to appear more town. will put in more effort in to finding scum of a diffent color and I don't think you would bus your partner.

[cyrus62]

What's with the colour specific theorising? Why would it matter which scumteam Loft is on.

Red scum or other scum have a higher rate at finding each other due to not haveing town blinders on. You see. I am color blind this game so I have a 20% chance at hitting scum of any color. But red knows they are red and is looking for other colors. But scum have 25% chance at hitting a diffent color scum due to wanting to appear more town. will put in more effort in to finding scum of a diffent color and I don't think you would bus your partner.

Mic drop.

[cyrus62]

I doubt RR comes back to claim given how long they've been MIA but I'll give them a chance.

Intent to hammer by 10 pm EST

Hammer who ? Reg is at e2 still? Gee pay attention .

[cyrus62]

What's with the colour specific theorising? Why would it matter which scumteam Loft is on.

Red scum or other scum have a higher rate at finding each other due to not haveing town blinders on. You see. I am color blind this game so I have a 20% chance at hitting scum of any color. But red knows they are red and is looking for other colors. But scum have 25% chance at hitting a diffent color scum due to wanting to appear more town. will put in more effort in to finding scum of a diffent color and I don't think you would bus your partner.

Waiting on a response to this from west he askd for my thoughts but has yet to respond to my answer .

[cyrus62]

What's with the colour specific theorising? Why would it matter which scumteam Loft is on.

Red scum or other scum have a higher rate at finding each other due to not haveing town blinders on. You see. I am color blind this game so I have a 20% chance at hitting scum of any color. But red knows they are red and is looking for other colors. But scum have 25% chance at hitting a diffent color scum due to wanting to appear more town. will put in more effort in to finding scum of a diffent color and I don't think you would bus your partner.

Your reasoning is that if Loft is town, my incompetence proves me as town, but if Loft is scum, I am suspicious, as scum have an innate advantage when it comes to scumhunting because they are an informed minority. This doesn't take into account the fact that there may be masons in this game.

It's not prefect I know but it is a theory/reason. your one of the few to get my reasoning so congrats on that .

[cyrus62]

^^^ Very much agree why are people going for the person due to be replaced in a couple hours and not the person who is actively being extremely scummy.

Could it be becuse a replace ment won't be able to add enough content in under 12 hours to get enough votes change over to make a hammer. And a mis is better then a no elmnation. After all we can always re exam loft day2

[cyrus62]

10pm you going to hammer west?

[cyrus62]

i lived

[cyrus62]

VOTE: dragon of the west

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Enchant

Why enchant?

[cyrus62]

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The bitch that roleblocked me can stay in the werk room.

Could it be possible you targeted person who killed Dunnstral-Ascteticizer and thus now roleblock every not-NK visit? Or it doesh't work at same night?

Go ahead and full claim now please.

mass claim is on day3 so every has a chance at a result .

[cyrus62]

I would like to point out that if bingel didn't shoot down my idea we would know who is 3p . But it is what it is.

[cyrus62]

I am willing to eliminate Dwlee9. It's cut-throat, baby.

I'm not. Hell dw was the 1st to scum read reg I think maybe the 2nd or was it loft he was scum reading I'll have to go look . If it was reg then I think he's town if it was loft then loft is trying to vote dw off cuse he's cught. Either way I don't feel right voting him. Not yet any way.

[cyrus62]

I would like to point out that if bingel didn't shoot down my idea we would know who is 3p . But it is what it is.

You mean like how I pointed out exactly why survivor or Jester *should* claim on D1?

Why were you so sure a cult existed, cyrus?

I wasn't . But I wanted people to claim c. If they rolled c . Hoping they didn't read the setup . If they didn't read the setup then I would have netted some 3p but you didn't want them to claim c.

[cyrus62]

B

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The bitch that roleblocked me can stay in the werk room.

Could it be possible you targeted person who killed Dunnstral-Ascteticizer and thus now roleblock every not-NK visit? Or it doesh't work at same night?

Go ahead and full claim now please.

Me?

Yes. I am hard claiming investigative. Claim or die.

wait till day three damn it.

[cyrus62]

I wasn't . But I wanted people to claim c. If they rolled c . Hoping they didn't read the setup . If they didn't read the setup then I would have netted some 3p but you didn't want them to claim c.

I explicitly explained why both survivor and jester should claim on D1. SK would never claim on D1. Continuing to misrep me doesn't actually change that. And I really don't think that the 41 instances of the exact word cult in your role PM are an indication of not thinking there was a cult.

The setup reads. If you roll cult but it was al ready rolled or claimd making the cult leader 1st come 1st severd. But after wards the mod added they would fudge all cult rolls into 3p. That is why I stated who ever rolled cult but didn't get it to put c . And if you didn't roll cult put na . And if you fudge a dice put f and put 1 2 or 3 to let us know you fudge one . I then said I rolled na and fudge dice 2.

[cyrus62]

Well, then you probably should take rest in nearest grave, not running around, because i am Town Paranoid Gun Owner. Miracle? Doctor save? Or probably Bulletproof. Only possible reasons you breath.
Oh right, you just pulled randomguilty and didn't visit me.

VOTE: Bingle

This seems bold would you take getting eliminated off tomorrow if bingel flips town. I pgo should have outed your self yesterday so we didn't lose a pr. So if your sure bingel is scum or 3p go for it. I just want to know if you got the guts to put your self on the line.

[cyrus62]

(expired on 2021-10-28 22:22:13)Come on don't you two chicken out now. I mean there's a way to settle this. That's how long you two have to claim your dice rolls and if you fudge and the number you fudge and if you subtracted or added to your fudge and what number your fudge dice landed on you have that long so you can't look at the spoiler dice rolls and fabacate it.

[cyrus62]

I rolled a 2 for my 1st dice I rolled a blank for my 2nd dice and a blank for my 3dr dice left the role and mod blank to keep you guys guseing.

[cyrus62]

4>1, 7, 14.

Did you add or subtract your 1st dice.

[cyrus62]

Bingel don't waste tonight checking me. Enchant did you add or subtract on your 1st dice?

[cyrus62]

since your on 1 it doesn't count 20 would be 1 19 would be 2 18 would be 3 17 would be 4 so your a alien.

[cyrus62]

So bingel is telling the truth. Wow I appogise for scum reading you bingel. He just said he rolled 1 and fudge it down 4.

[cyrus62]

So it's bingel hideing something

[cyrus62]

I asked bingel and encant to tell us thire roll enchant told us bingel chicken out.

[cyrus62]

So u were hoping for a 3dr party . If I would have fudge my 1st I would have landed on cult. In which case my oping gambit wouldn't have happen because I would have been to scared of getting cught.

[cyrus62]

A Doctor wouldn't be wasting a save if they protected me to night.

[cyrus62]

Invistagators would be wasting a shot if they check me.

[cyrus62]

I asked bingel and encant to tell us thire roll enchant told us bingel chicken out.

You’re right, I did ignore your request for useless noise.

The only way it wasn't useless as we have two choices either vote enchant off and flips pgo and then we vote you have off or we vote you off and see if your claim is true and if your claim is true we vote enchant off . My idea once again had merit you just don't want to get cught .

[cyrus62]

I don't see the utility of Bingle faking a guilty as any scum here, not this early anyway.

If enchant flips town pgo then bingel is scum. But maybe enchant is lieing and rolled a 4 that would make him 3p . Such as sk or jester. However bingel hasn't played along yet so I don't exactly trust him. But if there was a sk why only two kills.

[cyrus62]

If I were cult leader I would have targeted STD last night. Thoughts?

we find out last game that cult leader actions only work if they live to day2 . so cult is dead. if i make it to day3 i will claim out right. and then i will like you lot to target west and bingel for trying to put me on the spot.

[cyrus62]

Ok if encant is scum and bingel is working with him then bingel is also scum . So that's 3 scum. Down 1 cult leader dead. And 1 to go. I also think west and bingel could be on the same team.

[cyrus62]

@dw can I get a list of who you think is the scummy? @owl can I get one from you too . Save the dragons could I get a list from you as well.

[cyrus62]

I do not trust enchant bingel or west at this point.

[cyrus62]

I do not trust enchant bingel or west at this point.

Do you think i plan to backstab or something?

knew scum should never be left alive.

[cyrus62]

i don't know if i believe enchant is SK

Yes a sk rampaging pgo that didn't out day1 so they Risk prs being killed but that would be basicly bullet proof killer .

[cyrus62]

If I was scum I'd either be partnered with reg or not partnered with reg. So you either think there are 4 scum factions in this game, or I'm partnered with reg, or I'm town. I think the first idea isn't super likely, and the second is completely ridiculous.

There was two kills . The claims we have at this time is sk pgo . And blood hound . And the blood hound is saying they checked a pgo and got not town . Wait a min. Doesn't the wiki say fbi finds sk.

[cyrus62]

Ok so bloodhound gets town or not town . To get a result bingel would have to be town blood hound bullied proof.

[cyrus62]

If I was scum I'd either be partnered with reg or not partnered with reg. So you either think there are 4 scum factions in this game, or I'm partnered with reg, or I'm town. I think the first idea isn't super likely, and the second is completely ridiculous.

There was two kills . The claims we have at this time is sk pgo . And blood hound . And the blood hound is saying they checked a pgo and got not town . Wait a min. Doesn't the wiki say fbi finds sk.

Bloodhound is not alignment specific according to the wiki. Seer is probably the werewolf specific role here.

Fbi would have gotten sk.

[cyrus62]

Bloodhound gets town or not town

[cyrus62]

Yeah, and Enchant claimed SK. So, theoretically, Bingle is telling the truth.

That ignores the fact that Bingle claimed Bloodhound, which we know they couldn’t have known that a player is a SK, only that they are town or not.

Which is why bingel askd for a full claim.

[cyrus62]

Yeah, and Enchant claimed SK. So, theoretically, Bingle is telling the truth.

At this point voting off bingel is useless.

[cyrus62]

Yeah, and Enchant claimed SK. So, theoretically, Bingle is telling the truth.

At this point voting off bingel is useless.

Also as I said before checking me is a waste.

[cyrus62]

I didn't kill townie, so doesn't count.

What's your win con?

[cyrus62]

Mine is when all 3p and threats to town are dead.

[cyrus62]

And since your pgo scum can't kill you. So you need to be voted off .

[cyrus62]

I kinda think encant may be a ww and the way strange was acting means strange is working with enchant and west was regs partner so if we vote off in that order we win.

[cyrus62]

The other queston is why was dun killed n1.

[cyrus62]

My explanation for my vote:

I prefer eliminating Loftwing to Regrider

And then he was shot. Hmm if we let you live who would you vote for. Every one seems to want to vote off loft.

[cyrus62]

Now we need mas role so we can decide if loft is scum roleblock or town roleblock and his idea to block enchant tonight is scum in it self. Since that would prevent enchant from killing a3p and open him up to be shot . .

[cyrus62]

Or we could kill claimed scum instead of doing some shenanigans

So right now we have enchant who poses to kill 3p can't be killed by scum with out scum dieing themselves. A roleblock who is most likely scum who can kill who ever and blocked ma whoms role we don't know cuse he scum read them.

[cyrus62]

So we kill enchant today loft tommrow if bingel can check them .