Newbie 2081 | Game Over

[catboi]

VOTE: jake

[catboi]

I'm torn between avoiding miselim and getting rid of NM in the off chance that he is scum, because based on what I've read of his post history he'd be a gigantic pain to scumread.

@DTX: That Jake replaced out due to the slot being scum. But Jake didn't replace out and it was just a mod mistake.

I don't have much success reading him, but allowing an elimination to go through on page 2 is antitown. Jake and Meg musing on making it happen is both poor form and slightly suspect.

[catboi]

He doesn't say much so he's difficult to read. Prone to trolling for his entertainment, but in newbie games he plays seriously even if he doesn't explain himself. I've been in a couple with him, was town both times.

[catboi]

NM would be good as a town from what I've seen, I'm just not sure

if

he is town.

I mean, can you really be sure if anyone is town on page 3?

[catboi]

I mean yeah but that's the lazy way to go about it

Page two hammer is tempting

[catboi]

Well, you say you get a town vibe anyway, what were you searching for, then? And where did that vibe come from?

[catboi]

I'm more interested in trying to understand your your thinking there, I think everything he's posted so far is null. I mainly oppose the possibility of an early end to the day on principle and didn't care for Jake and Meg trying to half-jokingly allow it to happen.

[catboi]

Interesting early wagon

What's this supposed to mean, exactly?

[catboi]

VOTE: binatog

Last few posts have the feel of awkwardly trying to fit in while not providing any actual game relevant commentary. "interesting wagon" comment pinge because it didn't actually draw any conclusions, I questioned hm on it and he didn't follow up, had the feel of saying something just to say something.

More later.

[catboi]

VOTE: binatog

Last few posts have the feel of awkwardly trying to fit in while not providing any actual game relevant commentary. "interesting wagon" comment pinge because it didn't actually draw any conclusions, I questioned hm on it and he didn't follow up, had the feel of saying something just to say something.

More later.

That's just how Binatog plays, leave him alone

Nah.

Funny enough, I went to check his other games, saw he was more talkative in another one, then realized he was mafia in that one. But he's been more talkative in all his games, so I'm not really taking that as meaningful.

It's possible he's just not had much to say because of the slow start to the game but I don't think "playstyle" is a good reason to block scumreads on someone. Had a player I was scumreading in a prior game get shielded for playstyle reasons, turned out to actually be mafia.

I expect he'll become readable over time anyway, but right now I'm fine with throwing my vote on him.

[catboi]

That doesn't mean that I am sure you're definitely town. It's just you don't stand out for me at all as much as SEs stand out for doing very little. In Newbie 2078, I was playing under the assumption that it's impossible to get a good read Day One, but to my surprise SEs started going after people. Even though I've played mafia before finding this site, I'm still legally a newbie here and from what I've gathered, the purpose of SEs in the Newbie Games is to guide and sort of role model the newbies. The SEs here are three idle fluffposters and a jester-like shitposter lol. I bet at least one of these four is on the scumteam.

I would not categorize what I've been doing as "fluff", I've been pretty serious so far. I think it's a mistake to assume everyone with the SE tag is going to play the same, the only requirement is to have a certain number of games completed. Not everyone plays the same way.

My general preference in the early game is to hang back and observe, because I hate forcing content and don't want to be misinterpreted. However, it looks like the players in this game tend toward the quiet side, aside from maybe hops, so I'm probably going to have to take a bit more initiative here.

Unfortunately I don't really support the wagon on you but not really think Meg is scum for driving it, so that leaves me in a bit of an uncertain position with how to advance the game.

[catboi]

catboi - Everyone is playing really passive right now so I'm not getting any exceptionally pro-town reads from anyone, but if I went with my instinct I'd go with him. He's been scumhunting slightly and seems to be trying to elicit more reactions from people.

I feel like I haven't been all that town yet, but thanks :3

If you are scum, then there’s virtually no point in me convincing you about anything. Unless you’re just going to think „damn, he’s good” and give up Day One, which I don’t really think has any chance of happening in any game.

You're not in a 1v1 conversation here.
If you actually believe Meg is scummy, then tell everyone why. You're not trying to convince Meg, you are trying to convince us.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but you feel a bit sideline-y this game. What's up?

My reads so far:

Town Lean

Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.

Neutral

Most of the players.

Scum Lean

None so far. Will update info soon.

Lol

[catboi]

I'll be honest, Meg vs Greeting continues to look like a typical day 1 argument, someone jumps on something minor and pushes hard, the person being attacked pushes back, this is good in terms of generating some form of content but I struggle to even maintain any interest in reading it, let alone coming away with a strong opinion. I realize this is close to reiterating what I said earlier but as it's the main thing going on I feel obligated to comment, even when I really have nothing to say. I might try reading more closely later but as it is I continue to have not much interest in voting for either player.

[catboi]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but you feel a bit sideline-y this game. What's up?

You’re talking about me right?

Cause ya, I think that I’ve been underperforming a little this game. I’m not a great player, so my investigations usually consist of seeing a scummy message, then looking at that person’s past messages. I’ll do that for a few people, and then start questioning them. It’s the main reason I pushed for RegRider in my last newbie game. He practically gave a new scummy message each day.

Well, yes, I subbed into that game, maybe it was the benefit of hindsight in knowing you had been nightkilled and flipped town, maybe it was having the benefit of 10 days' worth of posts compressed into a single afternoon of reading for me, but you seemed clearly town that game in a way that hasn't shown up here.

[catboi]

I have at least half of the game at the same level of scummy for me right now, so I’m holding my vote.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that? If you have multiple suspects and are voting none, you're exerting pressure on none of them.

[catboi]

I've been struggling to maintain my focus on this game. I apologize. Nothing to do with anyone else, just not able to get my head into it right now. I think as a week has gone by and the deadline is approaching, we need to buckle down more and move toward wagoning someone. Waiting until the last minute at the deadline is a recipe for disaster. I'll quickly catch up right now.

[catboi]

I can't get my bearings and need to look at this with fresh eyes in the morning, but I vaguely like binatog's last post, I'm a bit of a sucker for the self-awareness and the fact that he seems unconcerned with survival here.

UNVOTE:

[catboi]

Don't really care for the readslist from DTX in 174 though that may be my own personal bias against unsupprted readslists. I

do

think the immediate re-evaluation and second guessing in 177 is a good look, and a flourish I think an inexperienced scum player would be unlikely to come up with. The reasoning in 185 is

okay

, I think. Nothing necessarily earthshaking but in some way alleviates my concern that Taco hasn't had much in the way of thoughts on the game.

I like the line of thought from Greeting in 188 about testing Taco to see if he was just copying him. To me that feels like a really towny line of thinking. I think in general the wall in that post shows a decent attempt at evaluating the game, I didn't thinl his response to being pushed to E-1 early was scummy, probably a townlean.

I'm not really sure what to make of Jake's turn toward logic pedantry in response to being attacked. In a way I like what he's doing because when I'm not flailing irrationally I like to question people attacking me to get them to clarify their thinking, see if they're being genuine and possibly get them to rethink faulty reasoning. But it's a really easy fallback as mafia and I'm partly worried he's just doing it to deflect here. I kind of like 193 in the seizing on a small slightly contradictory thing. I'd like it more if Jake was seemingly directing it in some way toward finding a scumread, but...blah. I just don't know.


For what it's worth, while it can be useful to look at and consider who someone's teammate could b, as this can lead to clearing someone if they just don't plausibly have a partner, I try to emphasize every game that it's not good to get too caught up in pre-flip associations and hunting for teams, especially on day 1, as that can often lead down false paths. Townies will often have incidental associations between each other that might look bad, and I've seen new players in multiple games go down rabbit holes of thinking they had a team found that led them astray. It's not a good way to scumhunt. I don't like that line of defense from Jake.

[catboi]

I'm a bit too busy to sort out my hunch right now, but I was feeling that there is at least one SE on the scumteam. I just feel like we'd see firmer tells from a two newbscum team. I also have the suspicion that one of the newbies are waiting for a busy SE scum to approve their plans before saying anything, but since so many newbies are being quiet I'm not sure if I can narrow down the pool of suspects.

I should say that while from your POV it is mathematically most likely that the team is one SE/one newbie, since there are 4 of each, alignments are randomly distributed and this is a dangerous line of thinking to get caught up in. Oftentimes on Day 1 you're just not going to have strong leads and scum aren't going to announce their presence to the game thread. The idea about newbies being quiet also feels a bit out of place, while kenny and binatog haven't said much, the rest of you are all decently talkative. Best to just forget the status tags and evaluate everyone based on their content in the game so far.

[catboi]

VOTE: kennyk

I like hops a lot. Although a lot of people were quick to shoot down her theory about Jake being late to confirm, and I'm not on board with the reasoning, I don't think it's the type of theory a newbie scum player comes up with. Further posts have all had that good scumhunting energy, trying to move things forward, coming up with ideas, examining players, just looks like she's trying to solve the game. Easy townread there, I think.

I like Greeting as well although it's more of a soft lean than a full-on townread. Wouldn't support eliminating him but can't back it with full confidence.

Feelings on DaTacoX are even more slight but enough toward the good side based on recent posts.


I went back to review kenny and it feels like he's reactive and mostly responding to things with factual statements. He's too guarded, hasn't had any real suspects. In the previous game I was briefly with him in, despite not playing for over a decade, he was quick to out theories and suspect people just for wagon votes in RVS and the like, it felt like there was real momentum from him. Here, I get none of that in anything he's said, and even if the game started somewhat slow, it feels as though he's struggling to form an opinion on

anything

, and I think in all likelihood it's because he's mafia here and is afraid of making waves.

[catboi]

Greeting hasn't really said why he scumreads me, only that he scumreads me. It's not really riveting evidence towards me being scum, just someone's opinion. If Greeting ever decides to case me, then I would have something to argue against, but for right now all I have to go off of is that they scumread me for unknown or even nonexistent reasons.

Do you think Greeting is scum pushing you as an elimination, then?

[catboi]

Decent answer.

[catboi]

It's Greeting/catboi

Scratch one for you being able to read me. I want to say this is town-indicative anyway though.

[catboi]

Do you mean that I didn't provide enough info with my reads or that the list itself was uncalled for?

Right, the lack of info combined with with not necessarily feeling like I could see reasons for those reads. It's easy for anyone to throw names in a list in some order, harder to support the order of that list with believable reasoning if someone is scum.

This is very much a personal hangup of mine and not something that is common among most players. And, like I said, posts after are fine and clarify things enough for me, I don't need you to go into detail.

[catboi]

*shrug*

I don't really feel good about voting Greeting or Jake right now.

[catboi]

Yes, I didn't explain why I voted you, but that is partially because saying "don't worry, I don't actually want to kill you" makes building pressure harder. That was my mistake.

I think that Greeting can live another day here, but now I need to find a new bandwagon to hops on.
UNVOTE: Greeting

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this. Post 275 happened more than 12 hours ago. For 12 hours I was in immediate danger of getting hammered and you were okay with that. If what you're saying is true, that is an extremely risky way of building pressure and I believe that you were at least okay with voting me out.

Do you actually think he backs down here as mafia, when it's entirely possible he'd be able to get you eliminated anyway? You can

disagree

with the play of leaving you at E-1 but that doesn't mean it's scum motivated.

[catboi]

Kind of annoyed I didn't get an answer

[catboi]

Imagine getting an answer from Greeting smdh

After reconsideration, I would like to apologize to Greeting for this uncalled for comment.

Now I think that its actually Greeting / Jake pair intentionally calling each other.
N_M's randoming names early is sometimes accurate. So it might be Greeting.

I find that extremely unlikely

[catboi]

Also, is your vote on Not_Mafia accurate right now @Binatog13

Also, yes, if you don't think it's N_M, you need to move your vote NOW. We have less than 36 hours left and a lot of those are going to be lost to people sleeping, we need to consolidate now.

[catboi]

For what it's worth I think not_mafia not joking around as much and coming at me seriously is towny. But We have very little time until deadline, if you want to wagon him, VOTE. I'll take an elim even if it's on someone I'm not all that convinced is scum, my one real scumread is kenny and everyone seems to be mostly ignoring that.

[catboi]

If Jake was scum he easily could have kept the wagon on Greeting and probably gotten that elimination, the fact that he pulled back his vote when he did and it left him in peril shows a lack of scum survivalism. I'd much rather flip N_M or even Greeting.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[catboi]

I'd honestly rather there be no lim since I have no firm reads at all, but if this is how we do it in Mafiascum...

Didn't expect this theory debate to crop up at this point in time, but: the setups here have few power roles. You can check the OP. There's a chance of no investigative role at all, which means we learn basically nothing overnight. With 9 players, you typically only are going to get 4 elimination votes at most. If you skip one of those elimination votes, you're skipping one of your only chances to kill scum. It's drastically worsening your chances of winning to do that, so it's always best to vote someone out day 1, even if that vote is basically a shot in the dark.

[catboi]

I'd flip binatog if there's support there. You'd need 3 other votes, though.

[catboi]

Very much dislike that hammer

[catboi]

You’re right that I killed catboi partially because I saw what he could do, but I also did it because he was playing more passive so I figured he might have been a power role.

The game immediately became impossible for me to win after not_mafia died anyways.
My only hope was to kill the investigative role night 1 which didn’t happen.

Haa, I tend to play pretty much the same regardless of role, although I've been on a long VT streak lately. The difference you saw was owed primarily due to it being day 1 vs me replacing in on a later day - when I have more info to work with I get more proactive, on day 1 I'm more laid back, especially in a quiet game like this one.

And yeah, unfortunately there is not a lot you can do when you lose a partner day 1 like that. I personally can't really PR hunt at all, so I don't have much advice to give you there - in newbie games sometimes people will give VT tells, but that's about it as far as what I know. I think a no-kill on night 1 might have actually been the more viable gameplan to avoid the potential mechanical autoloss situation you wound up in, but I haven't actually checked myself to see if that works in the setup we were in.

Also RIP scum for being really stealthy this game and then dying to bullshit.

I don't think that's entirely by accident - while staying in the background can often help avoid attention early, in the long term it doesn't add up to a workable gameplan, as with eventually the town is likely to turn around and look for new targets, as there were enough people who decided Greeting or Jake were town that we moved to new targets. It was a bit lucky that changing to Not_Mafia happened to be correct, in general I think passive play as scum tends not to win, and it works better to be proactive.

[catboi]

Anyway, good game everyone, thanks for playing!!! ୧( ⁼̴̶̤̀ω⁼̴̶̤́ )૭

I might have some feedback for everyone tomorrow if I'm not too tired then. ( ⓥωⓥ)