Newbie 2081 | Game Over

[Greeting]

Greetings!

Prepare to be spammed with popculture gifs!

VOTE: kennyk

[Greeting]

Greetings!

Prepare to be spammed with popculture gifs!

VOTE: kennyk

That's not a random vote. It is a revenge from a different game. Maybe I should switch my vote to you. Probability says I have to catch scum if I vote you every game

Btw. this is the real spam popculture:

Vote me out, see what happens!

[Greeting]

- If you're a newbie, how many games of Mafia and mafia-likes have you played prior to this?
- Either newbie or SE, How would you rate your experience level?
- How would you describe your playstyle as as Scum, or how you would anticipate yourself playing as scum if this was your first game?
- For people who has actually played scum before, by eyeballing or actually counting, how often would you say you win as scum? What do you think are the common elements in games where you win as scum?
- What's your timezone and what's your anticipated schedule for checking in on this game?

1) Quite many, around 20. This is my second game on this site.
2) Moderately experienced. There are games which I absolutely nailed and there are games in which I absolutely failed.
3) I'm definitely more careful about what I say or how often do I post when I'm scum. Normally I just like to sort of float around, playing at my own pace.
4) I think I've only lost once a game being scum. When it comes to being town it's honestly probably 50/50. When it comes to the third question, I haven't really analysed those games, as a matter of fact, I don't really do it at all. And the site I've played mafia on the most is no longer, so I never will.
5) CET, I will definitely be checking in in the late afternoon/evening period, when it comes to other parts of the day it hugely depends on any of the following: business, tiredness, mood. I do not, however, ghost games, I have never done it before and I never consciously will. I have also been a host to mafia games and I know how much of a problem that can be.

[Greeting]

I hate that cow with a passion. The Miltank is cool though!

[Greeting]

So if I understand correctly, the notion is we vote out Not_Mafia because they’re a shitposter?

[Greeting]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: N_M

I still get a town vibe from N_M so I'll change my random vote to...

VOTE: kennyk

I'm still not convinced it was random

What do you think it was, then?

Not random.

What was or is (or wasn't or isn't) random?

[Greeting]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

Why?

Quick hammers early in the game or even more broadly, during the whole game, usually end up in voting out a townie.

[Greeting]

Obviously we want greeting at e-1 instead of NM

Why?

Your gifs are not relevant to the #youths

Me looking for damns to give about that:

[Greeting]

When was Janet Jackson last relevant? The Grand Handegg Tournmanet of '04?

You get to slander LaToya when you make better elevator music than this

[Greeting]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

I can very much agree with you on this. Too bad no one quickhammered though.

I mean this is pretty obviously bad for town to lim people for nothing.
The fact they felt they needed to bring it up feels a little LAMIST to me.

So it's bad for town to vote out someone for nothing but if someone points that out then it's lame? Now that's some top-tier logic.

[Greeting]

Btw. yesterday I had one of those days where you ask yourself why you even bothered to leave your bed. Real life sucks sometimes. I hopefully will be more active in the future.

Sorry to hear that. Today I had a really busy day at work and tbf if I had paid leave days I would have taken one today. I get 20 paid leave days per year by law, but they get counted every month, so each month at work I get 1.66 day off and I've used up all I have for now. I hope you'll be able to rest this weekend.

Oh, and UNVOTE: kennyk. I won't confirm or deny the randomness or lack of randomness of this vote, but so far you haven't given me anything to prompt me to vote you out.

Wagon you or wagon Greeting? >.<

Wagon either <3
Greeting preferred because I'm town.

I guess I'm in. VOTE: MegAzumarill

[Greeting]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

I can very much agree with you on this. Too bad no one quickhammered though.

I mean this is pretty obviously bad for town to lim people for nothing.
The fact they felt they needed to bring it up feels a little LAMIST to me.

So it's bad for town to vote out someone for nothing but if someone points that out then it's lame? Now that's some top-tier logic.

It's a truism and pointing it out accomplishes nothing but groveling for some lame towncred

I guess I'll just leave it at that. This argument is honestly so dumb. Sorry for trying to contibute to town making a choice of voting down someone over more than having fun.

I can see that you don't really care if you're voted out or not, but if you're town then having you out is not in our best interest, regardless of the quality of your gameplay.

[Greeting]

Since y'all Einsteins decided to put me at E-1, I might as well share my thoughts before some opportunist decides to seal the deal.

More townlean than scumlean:

hops

This would be the last person for me to vote out at this very moment. They sound like genuine vanilla town newbie. The tone of their posts seems like they actually want to solve this game in town's favour and that's good enough for the time being.

Neutral:

Binatog13
DaTacoX
kennyk
Not_Mafia

These folks have a higher chance of being scum, but don't seem to give me anything to suspect them (yet). DaTaco is the most neutral of them all, Binatog being a close second. I know kennyk from a different game and their playstyle so far matches that of the other game. Not_Mafia is just a shitposter and there's nothing more to it.

More on the err side:

Jake The Wolfie
catboi
MegAzumarill

For semi-experienced players they've contributed surprisingly little to this game. I know it's still Day One, but in the last game I've played the SEs were on a much higher level. My vote is currently on MegAzumarill, but I'm down to vote out either one of those three.

That's what I gathered from what was posted so far.

[Greeting]

Since y'all Einsteins decided to put me at E-1, I might as well share my thoughts before some opportunist decides to seal the deal.

More townlean than scumlean:

hops

This would be the last person for me to vote out at this very moment. They sound like genuine vanilla town newbie. The tone of their posts seems like they actually want to solve this game in town's favour and that's good enough for the time being.

Neutral:

Binatog13
DaTacoX
kennyk
Not_Mafia

These folks have a higher chance of being scum, but don't seem to give me anything to suspect them (yet). DaTaco is the most neutral of them all, Binatog being a close second. I know kennyk from a different game and their playstyle so far matches that of the other game. Not_Mafia is just a shitposter and there's nothing more to it.

More on the err side:

Jake The Wolfie
catboi
MegAzumarill

For semi-experienced players they've contributed surprisingly little to this game. I know it's still Day One, but in the last game I've played the SEs were on a much higher level. My vote is currently on MegAzumarill, but I'm down to vote out either one of those three.

That's what I gathered from what was posted so far.

Why does my playstyle match that of the other game? I didn't post any wild theories (yet). OK, maybe that is because there wasn't much to wave theories around. Although hops tried to step in my footsteps with her Wolfie theory.

It's less about the content and more about the feel of your posts. I cannot get much more from just five posts (there were five at the time of posting of my readslist). They all sound and read similarly to me to Newbie 2078 (it has since ended so now I think we can talk more freely about it), a game in which we both were town.

That doesn't mean that I am sure you're definitely town. It's just you don't stand out for me at all as much as SEs stand out for doing very little. In Newbie 2078, I was playing under the assumption that it's impossible to get a good read Day One, but to my surprise SEs started going after people. Even though I've played mafia before finding this site, I'm still legally a newbie here and from what I've gathered, the purpose of SEs in the Newbie Games is to guide and sort of role model the newbies. The SEs here are three idle fluffposters and a jester-like shitposter lol. I bet at least one of these four is on the scumteam.

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you think you should be townread right now?
Why or why not?

I don't care if some people find me scummy. If anything, it actually gives me a little bit of security. Crystal clear townies are great danger of being killed off every night as keeping them alive shrinks the pool of suspects for town and gives town a higher chance of hitting a scum.

However, I would rather not get voted out so soon in the game, as there is a high chance that my death would be in vain. I'd like to actually contribute to town's win. If by, let's say, Day Three the rest of town for some reason decides to let me go, and my death will help narrow them down the list of suspects then go ahead.

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you think you should be townread right now?
Why or why not?

I think this is a scumlean hunting for PRs, but idk for now. Asking someone to be townread early in the game is suspicious for me.

I can agree that asking such a question Day One is... odd to say the least.

[Greeting]

Okay, catboi seems to be somewhat more investigative.

Inb4 the scumteam are MegAzumarill and Jake The Wolfie

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you think you should be townread right now?
Why or why not?

I think this is a scumlean hunting for PRs, but idk for now. Asking someone to be townread early in the game is suspicious for me.

I can agree that asking such a question Day One is... odd to say the least.

Its a weird attitude for you to have.
Your posts come off like you expect to be townreads at a base. If you want to be townread start acting townie.

If you think I am scum give a case. You aren't following through with anything.

You refer to me as less investigative, but you still haven't answered my question to you.
What do you expect the SE's to be doing in this game that they are/were not?

If you are scum, then there’s virtually no point in me convincing you about anything. Unless you’re just going to think „damn, he’s good” and give up Day One, which I don’t really think has any chance of happening in any game.

[Greeting]

Greeting, do you think you should be townread right now?
Why or why not?

I think this is a scumlean hunting for PRs, but idk for now. Asking someone to be townread early in the game is suspicious for me.

I can agree that asking such a question Day One is... odd to say the least.

Its a weird attitude for you to have.
Your posts come off like you expect to be townreads at a base. If you want to be townread start acting townie.

If you think I am scum give a case. You aren't following through with anything.

You refer to me as less investigative, but you still haven't answered my question to you.
What do you expect the SE's to be doing in this game that they are/were not?

If you are scum, then there’s virtually no point in me convincing you about anything. Unless you’re just going to think „damn, he’s good” and give up Day One, which I don’t really think has any chance of happening in any game.

Share with the class anyway.
At this point you have given no reason for me to believe your reads are genuine.

That’s not true. I have given a reason. I may have not yet made it into a full case, but to say that my vote came out of nowhere is a lie.

[Greeting]

Your reason doesn't make sense though.

Of all the SEs Id say I am providing the most or second most content.
Unless you think the content I am providing is scummy, in which case you have not given a reason for it.

At the time of my readslist you were not. Although you did start to somewhat contribute to the game by grilling me, you did not fully justify your suspicions of me either. You just said that my posts were lame. I say this should work both ways.

Then there is Jake The Wolfie who did literally nothing. I can also jump on that wagon and right now I’m considering whether I should do it.

[Greeting]

LAMIST - "look at me I'm so town"

Refers to a player pointing out how townie they are, or drawing attention to townie actions they take unprompted.
Generally considered a scumtell. Hence the push from you essentially saying hey I don't like this wagon obviosuly started for no reason.

Oh, that makes sense. I had googled it before but google suggested „lamest” so I thought that was a typo. Still, I had already addressed the core of this argument before, in 97. I think it’s flawed from the onset (and overly reliant on meta) as it suggests that townies should stay silent, because otherwise they’re „too town to be town”. If I feel like I should say something then I’ll say it.

[Greeting]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

The problem I have with this post is that it accomplishes nothing besides trying to make yourself look good.

You didn't suggest an alternative, try to gather information about the wagoners or wagonee. You just pretty dryly and pointlessly just say something obviously true.

I have a different view on that. A bandwagon that builds up too easily is suspicious from the onset.

Why is no one defending this person?
Why did so many people uniformly agree on one person?
How did it happen?

Sorry, but shitposting and jestering is not enough for me to vote someone out. There could be a case for Not_Mafia for sure, but my general impression of them is that they’re just mess-makers for fun.

Let’s say we vote N_M out and they’re town. The only content that there is to analyse is perhaps 112. Given the fact that it’s quite a strong statement, I’m willing to interpret it as elaborate shitposting, aka trying to make artificial content for drama.

And so where does that lead us? What does that give us? I’d rather take a chance with the quieter folk and the quiet SEs do stand out.

[Greeting]

Yes that point is correct pretty objectively

Hence why just saying it with no effort to actually stop it or help out town with it is pointless

So it’s better to do

nothing

? I disagree on that. Not everyone has to have a ready theory on why something feels wrong or right. It’s a team game and merely pointing out something might be food for thought.

Glad that I’ve managed to clear that topic up. Honestly posting about it has tired me out so tomorrow I will move on to something that may actually lead us somewhere.

[Greeting]

My reads so far:

Town Lean

Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.

Neutral

Most of the players.

Scum Lean

None so far. Will update info soon.

That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?

[Greeting]

There's a cow in the game do not put bina at E-1

That just seems like a great plan to outst the fool

Yeah, it's great until you have potentially up to four townies dead (if Binatog and the mad cow are town) and the game's at lylo.

I guess that's the downside of letting a jester stay - having to mind him at all times.

[Greeting]

I have at least half of the game at the same level of scummy for me right now, so I’m holding my vote.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that? If you have multiple suspects and are voting none, you're exerting pressure on none of them.

I'm stating it now that I hate to use issues IRL as an excuse so I won't. I'll try to be more proactive.
I don't want to revote until I find someone that is clearly scummier for me.

[Town] -------------------

N/A

[Town Lean] -------------

Hops
Greeting

[Neutral] -----------------

Catboi
KennyK
Not_Mafia

[Scum Lean] -------------

Binatog13
Jake the Wolfie
MegAzumarill

[Scum] -------------------

N/A

I'll provide some more info for anyone who asks.

Yes, I'd like some more info on myself and all the scumleans (including MegAzumarill, which you stated in 177 to be neutral).

[Greeting]

@DaTacoX

[Greeting]

Yes, I'd like some more info on myself and all the scumleans (including MegAzumarill, which you stated in 177 to be neutral).

I haven't liked any of Meg's posting at the beginning of the game. It all can just be hidden behind the wall of a joke, but I don't really buy that. You two were also clashing over something not very meaningful for a long while. The reason I moved them up was that a lot of their more recent play has actually been helpful.

Jake is there for a similar reason to Meg's jokes. They voted the same people as Meg, but have only made comments that haven't really gone anywhere.

Binatog is kinda a mystery because they have very few posts and they're mostly vague.

As for your play, you come across as caring and not caring at the same time somehow? I moved you down slightly because I realized you haven't actually been doing a lot of investigating at that I'd just been placing you higher because I had Meg down low.

That's fair.

[Greeting]

For reference, I have been working on this post earlier and posts 183, 184 aimed to elicit some info which might be relevant to my next actions in this game. Namely, if DaTacoX merely copied what was said before by me in 106. Turns out they didn't, and I actually find their explanations pretty logical.

This whole post should be considered not as a readslist per se but as thinking out loud and a way for me to organise my thoughts.

Spoiler: Full player list

DaTacoX
Greeting
Binatog13
hops
kennyk
MegAzumarill
Jake The Wolfie
Not_Mafia
catboi

I'm picking my battles atm. I want to end my yesterday's train of thought. I had mentioned three SEs, now let's take a closer look at them.

Let's take a look at Jake The Wolfie. Each and every of their 21 posts are short statements. The justificiation for jumping on my bandwagon in 102 was the fact that they were bored 105. I interpret this as fishing for content by putting pressure on me, which seems more of a town-sign rather than scum tbf. Unless someone has meta which confirm that they've acted in a confrontational way in other games before? They're still suspicious to me.

Then there's MegAzumarill who seemed to focus their energy on building a case against me, which they justified by me pointing out obvious stuff. They don't necessarily have a clear townie voice to me, but taking a risk by building a case on flimsy Day One evidence brings attention and isn't something I would expect of a scum. Perhaps I am biased here, given that it obviously brought my attention, since the wagon was on me, but interestingly enough, the rest doesn't seem to care about this interaction... at all.

I've changed my opinion on catboi. That's not someone I want to pursue right now. The tone of their posts seems genuine.

Leaving out hops because my opinion of them hasn't changed.

Leaving out DaTacoX because I want to narrow the list down as much as possible and they quite frankly don't seem suspicious to me for now.

That leaves:

Spoiler: Player list2

Binatog13
kennyk
Jake The Wolfie
Not_Mafia

I'm going to go with Jake. VOTE: Jake The Wolfie The Binatog wagon is tempting, it really is. But I don't have a single shred of trust for Not_Mafia and I'd rather we make a better thought-out bandwagon rather than quickhammer a wallflower.

Tl;dr: I decided to go with elimination. I took the list of all players and started striking the least suspicious ones, one by one, and picked from what was left that didn't sit quite right with me and, given the overall circumstances, seemed safer than the other options.

[Greeting]

Are you expecting me to do something, or do you just want me to die?

If it's the former, what?

If it's the latter, why not Not_Mafia?

It’s the latter. This isn’t a trick or putting pressure, I just think that there’s a good chance you’re scum.

I decided to leave out kennyk, because it’s still the same story to what I said in my readslist before. Plus they seem to preoccupied with something else than me and MegAzumarill bickering, which is also a town-tell given how much of a non-event that really was.

I decided to also leave out Not_Mafia simply because they’re unpredictable. Whatever you expect them to do, they’ll do the contrary. They have their own agenda in this game, which is making a mess and the rest of the players sort of have to deal with it. That being said, he’s not out of suspicion, it’s just I think eliminating you first is a better idea.

[Greeting]

If you think I am scum, then who would plausibly be my partner?

That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.

[Greeting]

It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.

As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.

I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.

And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:

UNVOTE: Jake

Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?

[Greeting]

It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.

As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.

I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.

And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:

UNVOTE: Jake

Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?

No, I don't have any better candidate. The most ideal outcome of day one would of course be a scum elim (most prefered the roleblocker or the rolecop, if the setup has one of them in it). But the chances to get that result are at about 22 % (if I did the math right).

Then why are you choosing to unvote without picking a different candidate?

If you’re talking percentages then I gather that you have no suspects and rely only on mathematics? Correct me if I’m wrong. If that is true then why aren’t you choosing a candidate at random?

While I don’t have an issue with you disagreeing to vote out Jake, I don’t like the unvote when stuff got a bit heated. Sounds like you don’t want to get your hands dirty with a possible miselim.

[Greeting]

You are implying they should try to vote out someone they don't eant to???

I am implying that on Day One it's better to vote someone out rather than no one. A no elim vote towards the end of Day One is kind of washing your hands off any potential decisions.

[Greeting]

I'm getting more suspicious of kennyk right now. I think that attempting to avoid any responsibility for a miselim is a scummy thing to do.

If Binatog is put at E-1 and the options are either hammer them, noelim or hammer someone who isn't Jake, N_M or kennyk, I will hammer.

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

Quoting you to confirm that I've seen your post and I will summarise my suspicions tomorrow.

[Greeting]

I'm getting more suspicious of kennyk right now. I think that attempting to avoid any responsibility for a miselim is a scummy thing to do.

If Binatog is put at E-1 and the options are either hammer them, noelim or hammer someone who isn't Jake, N_M or kennyk, I will hammer.

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

Quoting you to confirm that I've seen your post and I will summarise my suspicions tomorrow.

What makes you think kennyk ever supported the jake wagon?
You seem to be saying the jake wagon is a mislim yet you still push them?

What narrative are you trying to push now?

I don’t know if Jake is scum or not. I said that I think that there’s a good chance. There’s a chance he’s not scum too.

[Greeting]

Meh, I’ll answer what I want. First they’re unhappy that I wasn’t investigative enough. Now they’re unhappy that I’m too investigative. Sounds like someone is so hellbent on me being scum that they’re looking for arguments to support the thesis rather than gather the thesis from several arguments.

Doesn’t mean it’s a scumtell. Probably a really stubborn townie. There’s nothing I can do if y’all want to vote me out.

[Greeting]

You, obviously.

[Greeting]

Neither is you trying to force me to focus all the time on dealing with your theories to defend myself. I’ll keep doing my thing, thanks.

[Greeting]

Why do you think that Kenny supported my wagon, Greeting?

They, themselves said, in 211 that since the wagon was slowly picking up, they didn’t want to be in the front row.

In many games the scums can on each other in order to distance themselves from one another and to confuse town when players look back at the voting history.

But there’s also a possibility that you’re town and staying on it would incriminate them.

Anyway, I really didn’t like the fact that they refused to pick anyone else or even consider picking someone whom they find even slightly suspicious.

[Greeting]

Ok but thats the part you seem keen on answering

You are ignoring my questions on YOUR reads.

Overall you haven't really given any reasoning as to why you have the reads the way that you have them, in spite of being asked to give your case multiple times.

That’s intriguing because I feel like I’ve spent 70% of my energy in this game on dealing with your doubts and nothing really came out of it.

[Greeting]

Ok but thats the part you seem keen on answering

You are ignoring my questions on YOUR reads.

Overall you haven't really given any reasoning as to why you have the reads the way that you have them, in spite of being asked to give your case multiple times.

That’s intriguing because I feel like I’ve spent 70% of my energy in this game on dealing with your doubts and nothing really came out of it.

So why to you choose only answer questions about my doubts rather than your reads?

Not every question is worth answering. Like promised, I’ll expand on Jake later.

[Greeting]

They, themselves said, in 211 that since the wagon was slowly picking up, they didn’t want to be in the front row.

Because, as they said, it was an RVS vote, which gives them total legitimacy to remove their vote.

Them removing their RVS vote also leads to the idea that they in fact did not support my wagon, otherwise they would have.. well, not removed their vote.

Like I said before, my issue with that is not that they disagreed on voting you out but the fact that they did not pick an alternative.

[Greeting]

The first part of the story has been disclosed by me in 188, including why I suspect four players: Jake The Wolfie, kennyk, Binatog19 and Not_Mafia.

Of those four I decided to vote out Jake The Wolfie for the following reasons.

All of his posts up until the first time I was put at E-2 (post 102) - and later at E-1 were fluffy and lacked content. They gave the impression of the type of player that likes to incite drama and then sit at the backseat and watch it unfold. I actually agree with DaTacoX's description of this in post 192. It is possible to be both fluffy and aggressive and that is the impression I also gathered from Jake's posts.

His further posts weren't a lot better. In 178 they voiced a suspicion over kennyk without taking

any

sort of action. The rest of his posts seem to have this kind of teacher attitude, which is actually trying to steer people to say what they want them to say. I see this as a possible elaborate plan to generate content that will clear his name.

Jake never explained why they decided to vote me out, and as evidenced in that post, we know that it wasn't an RVS. In post 234 they even said that they don't think I'm necessarily scum but decides to vote me out anyway. Even if my death was to be useful for town by providing information, it was never specified what kind of information would that be. While I agree that it's better to vote out someone than not elim Day One (although there are cases in which noelim is better), I'm not going to hammer myself for a simple reason - I'm town and don't see any benefits to allowing my elimination to happen.

I think that voting out Jake is worth a shot, although he's not the only bandwagon that I'd support.

Kennyk is a possible scum partner to Jake. Post 178 could be an attempt for them to distance themselves from one another.

[Greeting]

I think that there's a bigger chance than not that there's at least one scum on my wagon. If my suspicions are going in the right direction, then it's entirely possible that both really want to sway town towards the direction of voting me out. If I'm correct about Jake and kennyk, then I'll be a lot more dangerous to them alive than dead. My experience with mafia taught me that reads of voted out townies are not always listened to. If town decides to hammer me I obviously won't be able to pursue them further and this whole day could be written off with town steered off later into a completely different direction.

[Greeting]

Yes, I didn't explain why I voted you, but that is partially because saying "don't worry, I don't actually want to kill you" makes building pressure harder. That was my mistake.

I think that Greeting can live another day here, but now I need to find a new bandwagon to hops on.
UNVOTE: Greeting

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this. Post 275 happened more than 12 hours ago. For 12 hours I was in immediate danger of getting hammered and you were okay with that. If what you're saying is true, that is an extremely risky way of building pressure and I believe that you were at least okay with voting me out.

[Greeting]

VOTE: catboi

Care to explain, cow?

[Greeting]

If Not_Mafia is put at E-1, I will hammer. I don’t see a majority to vote out Jake and it’s preferable to eliminate.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I believe this is it.

[Greeting]

I said I would hammer N_M if they were at E-1 and I am a man of my word.

I’m not waiting for you to gather three votes for Binatog. I’d rather have the cow out first.

[Greeting]

My goal has been fulfilled, and I will now replace out of the game in a victory. Ahaha, I have won.

/s

...what was your goal?

[Greeting]

To Outlast Not_Mafia.

In all seriousness though, I did find Not_Mafia's actions weird and unnatural, like they wanted to make their death draw some partner lines with me.

Oh, I thought you meant like you had some role which had this winning condition. Congratulations to you, I guess.

[Greeting]

Very much dislike that hammer

Just reminding you that you’re also on it.

[Greeting]

If this flips TPR I say we lim Greeting

While I know you've been hunting for me since the very beginning of this game, this makes no sense. It's impossible for me to know if Not_Mafia has any kind of power role or not on Day One.

The only real possibility would be if I were a mafia goon and they had a mafia power role, but why would I suspect and hammer them then?

[Greeting]

It probably would have been better if you announced your intent to hammer first, Greeting.

What do you think post 316 was for then?

[Greeting]

Yeah, I’m not going to follow the ask before you hammer rule. Had I done that, we would be debating if Not_Mafia really was what he claimed, then the real holder of a power role would claim and we would lose them.

I’m mistrustful of everyone who wasn’t on the Not_Mafia wagon.

VOTE: kennyk

[Greeting]

I say the order to vote out should be: kennyk, MegAzumarill and Binatog/Taco in the end.

[Greeting]

Binatog was on the winning wagon. DaTacoX wasn’t, however they announced their intent to hammer. And I think their shock at my hammer in 325 was genuine. That’s why I think both of them should be left for the end. Which leaves kennyk and MegAzumarill. I still think that Meg’s obsessive hunt over me was towny, they obviously put themselves at risk with it and it seemed to backed with some genuine (albeit misinterpreted and misunderstood) concerns. Which is why I suggest kennyk.

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

The audacity of MegAzumarill telling potential power roles what to do when they themselves are on the chopping block for bad reads

[Greeting]

Am I the wolf that Wall St is talking about?

“Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan”

[Greeting]

Vote count 2.00

It is Day 2!
With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-31 18:30:00)

VC

Not Voting [7]:

DaTacoX, Greeting, Binatog13, hops, kennyk, MegAzumarill, Jake The Wolfie

Mod Notes

• 

@midwaybear something doesn’t add up here. We had 9 players originally, scummy cow and catboi are out. Which means that there’s 7 votes and it now takes 4 to eliminate.

[Greeting]

If we're in a setup with a JK, then whoever JK had roleblocked is basically confirmed town, right?

We have two town power roles and a Mafia Goon who now submits the night kill alone.

If we have a JK and they use their powers on Night Two, the possible outcomes are:
1. if they pick a Vanilla Townie, they will receive the info that "x" is Vanilla, which basically confirms that this person is a Vanilla Townie;
2. if they pick the other Power Role, I think that person's role will be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success;
3. if they pick the Mafia Goon, their NK should be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success.

It will take some deduction to differentiate between 2 and 3.

If they successfully role blocked the Mafia Goon, there will be no NK. If they role block the other town PR, there (most likely) will be a NK.

I don't know what the JK receives if they target a player who does have a power role but didn't utilise it on that Night. Technically there is also a possibility that a Mafia Goon skips a NK even though that's clearly in not their interest. In my last game, N2078, the power roles weren't used every night.

[Greeting]

Also, I still don't follow what advantage town gets from knowing the setup. Right now scum can't know the setup yet, while the PRs would have more information on the setup, even exactly in the event that said PR is a JK or a doctor. I'm not sure why we'd want to nullify that.

Since Not_Mafia was a Rolecop, we have the following possibilities:

1. Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor
2. Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor
3. Town Tracker and Town Doctor

Each of the players who have one of these four roles can narrow this down.

If there is a Doctor in the game, they will know that the other power role is a Tracker.
If there is a JK in the game, they will know that the other power role is a FN.
The Tracker will know that there is either a FN or a Doctor, and so there is no JK in the game.
The FN will know that there is either a Tracker or a JK, and so there is no Doctor in the game.

That is, of course, discounting the potential usage of power roles during the Night Phase. It's likely that at least one clever player already knows the setup of the game, but it's not 100% certain.

[Greeting]

I just noticed that Azumarill's eyes in MegAzumarill's avatar are slightly moving. That's so creepy.

[Greeting]

Roles don't typically get feedback when they act, unless they are investigative. So if you're a roleblocker, you won't know whether or not you succeeded in roleblocking someone or not. Obviously if you were a doctor and you protect someone who dies then that's cause for concern, but if they don't die then you won't be sure if they were attacked, or if you were stopped in some way, or if they simply weren't attacked.

Tracker and JK are investigative, so there is a 100% chance we have an investigative role in the game.

[Greeting]

No, wait JK is not investigative. Never mind.

[Greeting]

Does anyone have a reason we shouldn't eat the Taco?

I said mine in 370. It's not that I think he should fly under the radar. It's just that others are more suspicious and, in my opinion, should go first.

[Greeting]

Meh, I had town mass claiming in my last game before and it ended with a Mafia Victory. You better know what you're doing.

[Greeting]

I’m internally debating whether I should hammer or not, but my instinct says no.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Binatog13

Join me, if you wish.

[Greeting]

I don't expect Binatog13 to vote for themselves, so probably the Taco wagon will pull through though.

[Greeting]

Hammer taco because we cannot lose if hops heals me tonight

I do believe that your claim about your role is true, as no one counterclaimed, and you are correct about me being a VT. But I don't think your reads, which didn't involve yourself using your role, are very accurate. I don't remember you making any convincing case for Taco anyways.

Besides, I don't really see Binatog13 not hammering the Taco wagon. Unless they lost interest in the game completely.

[Greeting]

If greeting hadn't been confirmed as town I would be switching votes now. We have a fool proof tactic. Yet another wagon is opened.

All the confirmed townies have to work together, not voting on different players.

At this stage it doen't even matter how anybody is read. I don't read Taco as scum. But the game winning strategy for town needs us to eliminate one not confirmed player.

If everyone promises to play according to Megs plan (which I guess I laid out in all detail*) I am even willing to vote or hammer myself if this doesn't get in the right direction.

* Just realised I forgot the scenario where scum doesn't kill hops N2. But even if the tracked player is NKed it is 3 confirmed townies against 2 non-confirmed D3.

Alright then, let's all vote Binatog13.

[Greeting]

Meg_Azumarill could have made better use of their Tracker powers last night than investigating me as hammering a scum Day One was a semi-townfirm already.

Sure, I'll participate in this whole plan, but on my own terms. The four players that we don't have a claim or confirmation about: kennyk, Binatog13, Jake The Wolfie and DaTacoX. Jake is the least suspicious of these four as the main architect of the successful Day One wagon and so obviously no one is really considering to vote him out now.

Which leaves us with: kennyk, Binatog13, DaTacoX. I wanted to go after kennyk first but decided to make some concessions. In terms of game mechanics, in line with the plan, we can still win with two misvotes. And I think that Binatog13, despite being on the winning wagon, is more suspicious than Taco due to: low activity and the possibility that an his vote on Not_Mafia was early which could have signified distancing.

[Greeting]

VOTE: DaTacoX

[Greeting]

Hello, host?

[Greeting]

Good game y’all, well done.

[Greeting]

For some reason, I really couldn’t get myself to believe that Taco was mafia until Meg successfully tracked them. But it didn’t matter in the end, the game was pretty much won.

[Greeting]

DaTacoX when I redirected the wagon to Binatog13 on Day Two: