Newbie 2081 | Game Over

[DaTacoX]

Hi everybody!

Jake The Wolfie: This is a long shot... but I think this slot leans either scum or power role because Jake is an SE so it doesn't make sense for Jake to just not be around and checking PM, especially with how active the person's post history seems to be.

Well... You're definitely not wrong about that being a long shot lol
I think your putting too much faith in SEs

VOTE: greeting

[DaTacoX]

Hi everyone. Have some not-so-random questions:

- If you're a newbie, how many games of Mafia and mafia-likes have you played prior to this?
- Either newbie or SE, How would you rate your experience level?
- How would you describe your playstyle as as Scum, or how you would anticipate yourself playing as scum if this was your first game?
- For people who has actually played scum before, by eyeballing or actually counting, how often would you say you win as scum? What do you think are the common elements in games where you win as scum?
- What's your timezone and what's your anticipated schedule for checking in on this game?

This is my second game on the site. My previous experience comes from mostly irl scenarios and a few video games.

I'd rate myself at the rookie tier, same as Binatog.

In most of my irl games, I would always struggle as both sides to come up with something meaningful to say. I feel like my comments as town are incriminating myself and that my statements as mafia are obviously false. I fall into the trap of not talking a lot.

I'll give myself a generous 40% win rate. Half of my wins are probably simply because nobody could read me because I was being silent as always. I'm trying to break that habit.

My timezone is EST

[DaTacoX]

welp, there goes that theory.

What theory are you referring to?

[DaTacoX]

Ok then.
I thought you were referring to something having to do with kennyK

[DaTacoX]

I don't mean to be rude, but is Not_Mafia notoriously awful to have on the town or just really good at scum?

[DaTacoX]

Alrighty, I apologize if that sounded a bit harsh Not_Mafia.

[DaTacoX]

I missed this.

Not_Mafia was literally put on E-1 for a while. They're still at E-2. This bandwagon built up way too fast, I don't like this.

One of those votes is actually still from Not_Mafia

Obviously we want greeting at e-1 instead of NM

Also, what?
Where did that come from

[DaTacoX]

Wagon you or wagon Greeting? >.<

[DaTacoX]

Not really, started for no reason and we have no reason to linger on it.

About as uninteresting as you can get imo

>.>

[DaTacoX]

I’ve been a bit out of it recently, so I’ll try to post some more later today. But for now, I’ll

UNVOTE: Greeting

[DaTacoX]

The way I see things right now is that Meg and Jake are some of my lowest picks with Not_Mafia and Binatog behind them.

Meg and Jake's posts have mostly boiled down to: let's vote this person because it is a "good idea".
Meanwhile, Not_Mafia and Binatog are mostly just chiming in with nothing to add. Same could be said for most of us though. (-.-)

There are too few posts from everybody right now to really judge each other properly, so a lot of this is just speculation that's been simplified down.

[DaTacoX]

To be fair, it is still pretty early in day 1 though, so starting wagons without a good reason isn't actually that incriminating is it?

[DaTacoX]

Is there something specific you have in mind?

[DaTacoX]

If you are scum, then there’s virtually no point in me convincing you about anything. Unless you’re just going to think „damn, he’s good” and give up Day One, which I don’t really think has any chance of happening in any game.

You're not in a 1v1 conversation here.
If you actually believe Meg is scummy, then tell everyone why. You're not trying to convince Meg, you are trying to convince us.

[DaTacoX]

Also, there has been a lot of question dodging this game.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Town shouldn't be ignoring people's questions. It makes themselves look bad and the questioner good.

[DaTacoX]

You're right that questions that go nowhere or are clearly phrased as traps should probably be avoided, but I don't see the problem in this scenario.
Greeting comes off to me as ignoring Meg because they might be scummy.
Even with a trick question, just straight up ignoring it doesn't usually look good.

[DaTacoX]

But yeah,
I didn't really look into the nature of the question. We're making some progress, but haven't really gone anywhere yet.

[DaTacoX]

I guess my main point is that we're starving for info, and some of the few questions being asked are getting ignored.

[DaTacoX]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but you feel a bit sideline-y this game. What's up?

You’re talking about me right?

Cause ya, I think that I’ve been underperforming a little this game. I’m not a great player, so my investigations usually consist of seeing a scummy message, then looking at that person’s past messages. I’ll do that for a few people, and then start questioning them. It’s the main reason I pushed for RegRider in my last newbie game. He practically gave a new scummy message each day.

[DaTacoX]

I have at least half of the game at the same level of scummy for me right now, so I’m holding my vote.

[DaTacoX]

Not really, started for no reason and we have no reason to linger on it.

About as uninteresting as you can get imo

Obviously we want greeting at e-1 instead of NM

Looking back, you wanted us to ignore the N_M wagon. Why is that? You yourself were one of the people spearheading it? You then immediately started pushing a new one on Greeting.

[DaTacoX]

I have at least half of the game at the same level of scummy for me right now, so I’m holding my vote.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish with that? If you have multiple suspects and are voting none, you're exerting pressure on none of them.

I'm stating it now that I hate to use issues IRL as an excuse so I won't. I'll try to be more proactive.
I don't want to revote until I find someone that is clearly scummier for me.

[Town] -------------------

N/A

[Town Lean] -------------

Hops
Greeting

[Neutral] -----------------

Catboi
KennyK
Not_Mafia

[Scum Lean] -------------

Binatog13
Jake the Wolfie
MegAzumarill

[Scum] -------------------

N/A

I'll provide some more info for anyone who asks.

[DaTacoX]

Actually... I think I'd probably move Meg and Greeting back to neutral

[DaTacoX]

Kennyk makes my eyes glaze over.

What does that mean?

[DaTacoX]

Yes, I'd like some more info on myself and all the scumleans (including MegAzumarill, which you stated in 177 to be neutral).

I haven't liked any of Meg's posting at the beginning of the game. It all can just be hidden behind the wall of a joke, but I don't really buy that. You two were also clashing over something not very meaningful for a long while. The reason I moved them up was that a lot of their more recent play has actually been helpful.

Jake is there for a similar reason to Meg's jokes. They voted the same people as Meg, but have only made comments that haven't really gone anywhere.

Binatog is kinda a mystery because they have very few posts and they're mostly vague.

As for your play, you come across as caring and not caring at the same time somehow? I moved you down slightly because I realized you haven't actually been doing a lot of investigating at that I'd just been placing you higher because I had Meg down low.

[DaTacoX]

Now that I've read into things more, I've narrowed my choice down to Jake and Binatog.
I'm picking Jake here because unlike Binatog there are more posts to go off of and a lot of it is fluff and short statements.

VOTE: Jake the Wolfie

The one post they have that has actual merit is when they gave me advice (which was nice) but felt kind of out of character for them thus far.

[DaTacoX]

I think that Binatog's posts are unhelpful but passive while yours are more aggressive.
It's a little unfair to say that you're worse off because your posting more, but that's the reason why I'm able to generally be more confident about it.

[DaTacoX]

I think that Binatog's posts are unhelpful but passive while yours are more aggressive.
It's a little unfair to say that you're worse off because your posting more, but that's the reason why I'm able to generally be more confident about it.

How am I being aggressive while also being fluffy?

When I say they’re aggressive, I mean that in the sense that you’re still pushing for people over others unlike binatog. Unless I’ve got the definition wrong, your posts still count as fluffy to me because they are either unhelpful, don’t come across as serious, or are vague.

[DaTacoX]

I think that Binatog's posts are unhelpful but passive while yours are more aggressive.
It's a little unfair to say that you're worse off because your posting more, but that's the reason why I'm able to generally be more confident about it.

How am I being aggressive while also being fluffy?

When I say they’re aggressive, I mean that in the sense that you’re still pushing for people over others unlike binatog. Unless I’ve got the definition wrong, your posts still count as fluffy to me because they are either unhelpful, don’t come across as serious, or are vague.

That doesn't really answer my question, that just explains why I can't be both Aggressive and fluffy. If I'm being Aggressive, then I have to be clear and serious, but if I'm being fluffy then I would be less clear and more silly.

Okay it’s pretty clear that I’m not really getting my point across and that I didn’t have the right definition for fluff. Your opinions all come across as spur of the moment things. There hasn’t been much depth to anything you’ve said. Some of it gets chocked up to boredom while the rest look like jokes. You posts comments and questions referred to specific people, but they still aren’t helpful. Comparatively to Binatog, your posts are more aggressive. I’m not sure how to explain this much better, so I’ll leave it at that for now.

[DaTacoX]

If you think I am scum, then who would plausibly be my partner?

That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.

That's kind of an important thing to consider.

I vaguely remember being told in my last game that that wasn’t too important? At least on day 1

[DaTacoX]

If you think I am scum, then who would plausibly be my partner?

That’s a question I’ll be thinking about after you flip scum. Otherwise, it just serves as a distraction.

That's kind of an important thing to consider.

I vaguely remember being told in my last game that that wasn’t too important? At least on day 1

This could be totally wrong don’t take me too seriously please o-o

[DaTacoX]

It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.

As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.

I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.

And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:

UNVOTE: Jake

Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?

No, I don't have any better candidate. The most ideal outcome of day one would of course be a scum elim (most prefered the roleblocker or the rolecop, if the setup has one of them in it). But the chances to get that result are at about 22 % (if I did the math right).

Then why are you choosing to unvote without picking a different candidate?

If you’re talking percentages then I gather that you have no suspects and rely only on mathematics? Correct me if I’m wrong. If that is true then why aren’t you choosing a candidate at random?

While I don’t have an issue with you disagreeing to vote out Jake, I don’t like the unvote when stuff got a bit heated. Sounds like you don’t want to get your hands dirty with a possible miselim.

I did something similar when I took my rvs vote off of you earlier. I held on to it a little while until I found someone I thought actually had a good chance to be correct.
Granted, there wasn't really any pressure there, but I don't think that was very unreasonable for kenny.

It's Greeting/catboi

Are you serious about this? Or at the very least do you slightly scum read them?

[DaTacoX]

Don't really care for the readslist from DTX in 174 though that may be my own personal bias against unsupprted readslists. I

do

think the immediate re-evaluation and second guessing in 177 is a good look, and a flourish I think an inexperienced scum player would be unlikely to come up with. The reasoning in 185 is

okay

, I think. Nothing necessarily earthshaking but in some way alleviates my concern that Taco hasn't had much in the way of thoughts on the game.

I like the line of thought from Greeting in 188 about testing Taco to see if he was just copying him. To me that feels like a really towny line of thinking. I think in general the wall in that post shows a decent attempt at evaluating the game, I didn't thinl his response to being pushed to E-1 early was scummy, probably a townlean.

I'm not really sure what to make of Jake's turn toward logic pedantry in response to being attacked. In a way I like what he's doing because when I'm not flailing irrationally I like to question people attacking me to get them to clarify their thinking, see if they're being genuine and possibly get them to rethink faulty reasoning. But it's a really easy fallback as mafia and I'm partly worried he's just doing it to deflect here. I kind of like 193 in the seizing on a small slightly contradictory thing. I'd like it more if Jake was seemingly directing it in some way toward finding a scumread, but...blah. I just don't know.


For what it's worth, while it can be useful to look at and consider who someone's teammate could b, as this can lead to clearing someone if they just don't plausibly have a partner, I try to emphasize every game that it's not good to get too caught up in pre-flip associations and hunting for teams, especially on day 1, as that can often lead down false paths. Townies will often have incidental associations between each other that might look bad, and I've seen new players in multiple games go down rabbit holes of thinking they had a team found that led them astray. It's not a good way to scumhunt. I don't like that line of defense from Jake.

Do you mean that I didn't provide enough info with my reads or that the list itself was uncalled for?

[DaTacoX]

Imagine getting an answer from Greeting smdh

After reconsideration, I would like to apologize to Greeting for this uncalled for comment.

Now I think that its actually Greeting / Jake pair intentionally calling each other.
N_M's randoming names early is sometimes accurate. So it might be Greeting.

Are you agreeing with Not_Mafia that Greeting and Catboi are scummy?
If so, could you explain your reasoning on Greeting a little more and Catboi completely to me?

[DaTacoX]

Also, is your vote on Not_Mafia accurate right now @Binatog13

[DaTacoX]

I’d highly prefer Jake or Binatog over Not_Mafia right now. They’re a complete wildcard. Jake has been doing a lot better for me though, so my vote is really more on Binatog here. They’re mostly silent and has yet to provide any real logical or non-vague comment.

However unlikely it may be,

If there are people willing to vote Binatog I will vote them,

if not, I’ll vote out Not-Mafia before the deadline hits.

[DaTacoX]

This would take an entire half of the game having to be online, so if anyone agrees, just hold your vote and say you’d be able to do it by the deadline.

This is turning into my last game all over again \(>.<)/

[DaTacoX]

Oh we actually have more time than I thought

[DaTacoX]

Bro what

[DaTacoX]

This really is turning into my last game lol
Nobody declared a single vote

[DaTacoX]

hammer vote*

[DaTacoX]

I said I would hammer N_M if they were at E-1 and I am a man of my word.

I’m not waiting for you to gather three votes for Binatog. I’d rather have the cow out first.

Ok, fair enough.
But my last newbie game seriously had like 2 votes in a row without allowing the person time to claim anything.

[DaTacoX]

In a way you kinda did?

[DaTacoX]

How did we get 4 votes on Not_Mafia over the course of 11 hours when more than half of the people don't even have him as their first pick?

[DaTacoX]

You've probably explained it before but what is CFD

[DaTacoX]

Okay thanks, thought you did but couldn't find it.

[DaTacoX]

Why catboi though?

[DaTacoX]

That was a dumb Elim in my book but also incredibly lucky lol. Pretty much confirms greeting and Jake as town.

[DaTacoX]

That pretty much narrows the pool down to Kenny, Meg, Binatog, and me.

[DaTacoX]

Not that it matters much now

@Binatog

, but you never answered whether your vote on N_M was intentional VOTE: Binatog13

[DaTacoX]

I thought that was like his scummiest post? It was incredibly vague and we now know that Jake and catboi are good.

[DaTacoX]

Nevermind I'm being stupid

[DaTacoX]

I was thinking of Binatog's list because of the colors

[DaTacoX]

I am very spicy

[DaTacoX]

Not that it matters much now

@Binatog

, but you never answered whether your vote on N_M was intentional VOTE: Binatog13

That was random
And my post on day one that NM townreads me made them pretty suspicious.

Alright then, just wanted to hear it.

[DaTacoX]

Alright but I don't find you reasons for voting kenny all that reasonable. Their day 1 was pretty townie.

If you don't think the Taco is scum for a specific reason say so, and if not you should sheep me.

I could be wrong but have you given an actual reason for voting me yet? I assume it's because I pushed for Binatog right?

[DaTacoX]

Yeah, the game was pretty much over the moment we got lucky and voted role cop day 1. Doesn't matter if I get voted because we'll just choose Binatog the next day.
Kinda a hollow victory but I was right about someone so I'll take it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DaTacoX]

Obviously I know I'm town, so I'll say to vote Binatog, but there's really no penalty in messing up here.

[DaTacoX]

We could try and make it a fast night as well if people were willing

[DaTacoX]

Nah it's definitely Jake
VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

[DaTacoX]

I tracked you tracking me track hops last night Meg so I understand the confusion

[DaTacoX]

Greeting why

[DaTacoX]

I thought we were frens

[DaTacoX]

I say the order to vote out should be: kennyk, MegAzumarill and Binatog/Taco in the end.

The list Greeting!
What about the list!

[DaTacoX]

VOTE: kennyk

[DaTacoX]

^^^
Top pick right there ^.^

[DaTacoX]

Wait no

[DaTacoX]

I can't believe you've done this

[DaTacoX]

I lied to Meg

[DaTacoX]

I'm not a spicy taco >:)

[DaTacoX]

I am a pleasant mild (^-^)

[DaTacoX]

Well done! To be fair, I just a little suspicious when catboi was NKed. It felt like it was a fearkill because of what happened last time. And then, when hops was NKed, I was like, whoever's Mafia just keeps on fearkilling. Which was what even got me to doubt you, DaTacoX. I felt like you had the best reason to fear catboi because they called you out in this post. Sorry if this feels too harsh, especially since it wasn't your fault that you had to carry the whole Mafia team for three whole days. And well done Meg for tracking DaTacoX and hops for protecting Meg. And well done, everybody else!

GGs everyone.

You’re right that I killed catboi partially because I saw what he could do, but I also did it because he was playing more passive so I figured he might have been a power role.

The game immediately became impossible for me to win after not_mafia died anyways.
My only hope was to kill the investigative role night 1 which didn’t happen.

[DaTacoX]

I’m happy I wasn’t the first to go afterwards though .3.
Srry Binatog

[DaTacoX]

@DaTacoX To be fair, a No Kill could have let you did what MargotRosa did. (In other words, let yourself live for longer.)

I considered no-killing, but I was already suspicious and that would just be a waste of everybody’s time.

[DaTacoX]

Also, I would have killed hops night 1, but I was afraid they would have been protected lol