Shakespeare uPick | End

[DeasVail]

Hello

It's me


I was wondering if after all these....



Oh never mind

[DeasVail]

Bowser Jr., Off The Hook, Child of Fairies, Skybird

No, no body, no crime

But I ain't letting up until the day I die

VOTE: Child of Fairies

[DeasVail]

Bowser Jr., Off The Hook, Child of Fairies, Skybird

Are these scumreads?

If they are, why vote COF over Off the Hook?

Yeah sort of. At this stage it feels a lot like picking names out of a hat and thinking "uhhhh this feels okay", but yes.

Off The Hook is probably the slot I'm least concerned about out of those 4, actually? I'm not sure why I need to be told what Gamma thinks without Gamma actually posting it but apart from that it's just weird appeasement vibes which might not mean much.

Child of Fairies is more interesting to me because of their interpretation that posts are difficult to parse. A very small proportion of posts so far are "Shakespearian" and honestly less than I would have expected going into a Shakespeare-themed game. If anything, the game has been easier to read than most other recent games I've played so it leads me to question where Child of Fairies' post is coming from. Is it an awkward attempt at light banter? Is Child of Fairies scum, feeling uncomfortable about that, and also more uncomfortable about posts that are more difficult to read as a result? I don't know, and I'm eager to find out!

[DeasVail]

Hmmm, actually I think I'm happy taking Skybird out of my scum list altogether

[DeasVail]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Any reasoning for this one? GL seems fine to me.

Bowser Jr., Off The Hook, Child of Fairies, Skybird

Are these scumreads?

If they are, why vote COF over Off the Hook?

Yeah sort of. At this stage it feels a lot like picking names out of a hat and thinking "uhhhh this feels okay", but yes.

Off The Hook is probably the slot I'm least concerned about out of those 4, actually? I'm not sure why I need to be told what Gamma thinks without Gamma actually posting it but apart from that it's just weird appeasement vibes which might not mean much.

Child of Fairies is more interesting to me because of their interpretation that posts are difficult to parse. A very small proportion of posts so far are "Shakespearian" and honestly less than I would have expected going into a Shakespeare-themed game. If anything, the game has been easier to read than most other recent games I've played so it leads me to question where Child of Fairies' post is coming from. Is it an awkward attempt at light banter? Is Child of Fairies scum, feeling uncomfortable about that, and also more uncomfortable about posts that are more difficult to read as a result? I don't know, and I'm eager to find out!

I never said that. I said that I was having difficulty parsing the Shakespeare posts (namely the sonnets, but A for effort) and if anyone else was. All the other posts are pretty standard early-game stuff, which are perfectly readable.

My thirst is not quenched
There remains discontent

[DeasVail]

I have very little idea of what you think. You have asked Juliet for reasoning on the GuiltyLion vote, saying that they seem “fine” to you. But what does this mean? Would you expect GL as scum to be not “fine”?

[DeasVail]

Why not DV?

[DeasVail]

Would you say Off The Hook is...


...


off the hook?




(sorry not sorry)

[DeasVail]

I'd really like Juliet to come back and talk about her naked vote.

Guilty Lion, Pavowski both strike me as town right now.

Not sure why DV wants to remove me from his list when I haven't done anything yet.

VOTE: Juliet

Disclaimer: Phone posting and this was from memory of things.

Post 116 was saying that you thought Pav was town after a lot of people had already said that, without reference to the fact that others had already said that. I think scum would try to be more ~original~
And at the very least it removed what little reason I had to “scumread” you in the first place.

[DeasVail]

I find the "hiding her points as gamma's points" concerning, in a "nervous to call them her own points kinda way"

From your knowledge of Marci, do you think this is more likely to come from her as scum? Why?

[DeasVail]

Thanks, I get what you’re saying but at this point I disagree with those reasons leading to OTH-scum

[DeasVail]

Thanks, I get what you’re saying but at this point I disagree with those reasons leading to OTH-scum

This feels incredibly disconnected from you sorting the slot yourself. Didn't you have them in your scum list a couple pages ago? (albeit, you said they were the least scummy of the list).

Are you now town reading them? If yes, what caused you to change that from what ever post you scum read them in before?

My list of 4 was obviously going off very little and there has been a fair bit happening since then. I wouldn't say that I scumread them at the moment, but my feelings are conflicted. There are little things that I like and little things that I don't like, to the point where I don't feel able to form a solid opinion on the slot right now.

I hadn't realised the extent of your familiarity with Marci before, which probably changes my thoughts on your suspicion of the slot, but I disagreed with your conclusion that "nervous = scum" and that "confrontational = scum". In my mind it would be weird for someone to keep doing the same active thing that they've done many times before as scum.
I don't townread the slot, but I don't need to townread the slot to disagree with your reasons for scumreading them. Again though, I'm now aware that your experience with Marci (lots) is much greater than my experience (none) so, in some respects, who am I to even comment on your reasons?

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Child of Fairies
VOTE: Bowser Jr.

This is not really indication of a change of read on CoF, but more that Bowser Jr. seems to be trying oh so hard to insert themselves into some kind of cool kids towncore despite not really doing anything town.

[DeasVail]

Also I agree with LLD

[DeasVail]

I do think it's odd that he criticizes us for trying too hard to get in a townbloc and then proceeds to buddy (imo) LLD by saying he agrees with her despite her having only voted this entire game.

well I don't agree with you, that's for sure

[DeasVail]

why does suspicion = criticism? Why does agreement = buddying?

So many things are suddenly becoming other things and it reeks of creating narratives where no such narratives exist

[DeasVail]

I shall not stand for the scaredy cat passive discrediting of me!

Die scum!

[DeasVail]

I don’t think there’s anything fundamentally different between suspicion and criticism in this context.

I can elaborate on why I called your agreement with LLD buddying: LLD has done nothing but vote this entire game, which is fine, but your explicitly calling out that you agree with her feels unearned because she hasn’t expressed an opinion to be agreed with outside of what we can assume from her votes.

It felt to me that you were trying to endear yourself to her, and seeing as LLD is a very influential Town player I could see scum trying to cozy up to her.

~Spiffy

I am in the middle of a busy work day and further thoughts will have to come later but I feel offended on both my own and LLD’s behalf as a result of this post.

[DeasVail]

Let's do this thing!

People who I think are town:

LLD (lol, it's basically a meme at this point)
Icebox
Pavowski
GuiltyLion
Lukewarm

Hmm... that's not as many as I thought it would be

--

People who I'm too scared to label as townreads but I'm not really concerned enough about them to pursue things further right now:

Dunnstral
Juliet Capulet
Galron
WhemeStar

--

The rest:

Bowser Jr.

Firstly, the attempts to strongarm people into townreading them are just not really doing anything for me, despite Bowser Jr's continued use of this as a form of defence. (see 93, 217, 263, 271 ("Also 47 hours until all votes on us must be removed"), 343. If you're relying on vague nothings rather than anything concrete to convince people to townread you, then it makes me think that you have something to hide.
Early posts from Bowser Jr. sort of made me suspicious in a way that I'd find difficult to articulate, but based on my posts I think it would be expected that 245 was what prompted the beginning of more of a scumread. The non-specific appeal to two players to "chat" at a time when Bowser Jr is starting to receive actual suspicion seems like a desperate attempt to be read as town. The "will get me more engaged" excuse falls flat. I would expect town to have topics in the game that interest them that they actually want to talk to people about, the "talk to me about anything" approach is more consistent with wanting to engage with people so that you can be read as town.

265 ESPECIALLY bothered me because of their way of throwing shade at me in what looks like an attempt to get Bell on their side against me whilst also invalidating my suspicion, through accusing me of "buddying" LLD in saying that I agreed with her. First of all,

of course

it's slightly ridiculous to say that I agree with someone who has not done anything other than voting, you're falling for easy bait. (I mostly said that I agreed with LLD because I thought it would be funny) But actually I think that LLD has been fairly clear in her opinion of the Bowser Jr. slot and the posts that LLD has obviously been bothered by are the same that have bothered me.

This was made worse by 270, which both invalidates LLD's opinions (again I think that LLD has actually been a lot clearer in her opinions than Bowser Jr has given her credit for), and also invalidates mine? Spiffy thinking that I would be trying to cozy up to LLD, an influential town player, reveals a lack of familiarity with me as a player (which I think explains why they as scum would interact with me in this way), especially since I imagine that LLD is certainly

not

the sort of player that would give someone a free town-pass for simply agreeing with her, or any attempted buddying, for that matter.
271 is trying very hard to justify the vote on me, when I think in essence town would justifiably be pissed off in response to my ridiculous posts and not be as meticulous in the justification.

Finally, 360 is trying too hard to pretend that they are actually convinced I'm scum. I've gotten myself very worked up over Bowser Jr. (clearly), yet I would not be nearly confident enough in them being scum at this stage to be planning for their scumflip.

(The criticism/suspicion comparison is probably more of theoretical than practical interest, but it

is

interesting to me, because being suspected when you're town often isn't really a failing on the town member's part, whilst being suspected when you're scum is more clearly a failing on the scum person's part. I do wonder whether scum are more likely to interpret suspicion as criticism. Again, this is not really a part of my suspicion on Bowser Jr. Just a thought bubble I had!)

--

Off The Hook

I don't really have anything more to say on this slot. Happy to give them time.

--

Wisdom

I don't actually think you're scum, but if I had to explain to someone why you aren't in my scumpile I wouldn't really have anything to say, so here we are.

--

Cephrir

I liked your vote on me and then your vote on CoF and I don't really know what I'm expecting from you, just... more? I want more!

--

Child of Fairies

Not much has really changed from my previous posts on them. If they made more posts since then I didn't really notice and I'm still not sure what that means for my read. They haven't really responded in a way that I would expect scum to respond, but also... not in what I would want from town? I don't know what to do!

--

Tamora's Angel

At the moment sitting slightly more scummy than OTH/Ceph/Wisdom, but not as concerning as CoF/Skybird/Bowser Jr.
Similar vibe of not much there but random reads list in 369 was.. okay I guess? Do I have reason to suspect Tamora's Angel? Not really?

--

Skybird

Sorry Skybird, you have gone into the scum section of my scumpile again.
Her posts feel run-of-the-mill and routine to me with not much evidence of underlying thought process behind them and more looking like posts for the sake of making them. 303 in particular does not seem super well thought out since I feel like LLD has made her meaning behind the posts very clear. 302 and 314 feel more like Skybird positioning herself than actually furthering her understanding of people's alignments etc.

--

Was this post actually just an excuse to have my Bowser Jr. rant?

Maybe

[DeasVail]

Thanks for the response Spiffy. I think your style can come across as somewhat condescending, which causes an instinctive reaction in me and may be affecting my judgement. However, I don't think that you actually believe I am scum.

Look at all the great content I got out of you because of it!!!!!!!!

This is not really something I expect town to say about their scumread, for example.

As for your comments on my post, I don't have too much to say. I think a lot of it is "you're wrong!", but in more words? Your point no. 1 shows awareness that it is something you do as town, which means you can emulate it as scum. I find the way that you have done it to be awkward and forced and often vague, making me doubt its authenticity, which I indicated in my post.

Regarding the bolded, that is not reason for you being scum as much as it is me checking myself. In this sort of situation, I always have to think to myself, "would scum actually approach me in this sort of way". A lot of the time my reads are relational in the sense that I judge people based on how they interact with me vs. how I expect them to as town/scum. I would probably expect scum familiar with me to tread more carefully than you have. For example, if Ceph came out swinging with a scumread on me I would be surprised but I would more likely think he was genuine in that belief yet mistaken due to it being very strange from him as scum. However, that wasn't a thought I needed to have in your case. For all you know I could be an easy elim! Maybe that's even true!

[DeasVail]

I think Bowser's last post suggests he's town. Scum may hedge, but they usually don't hedge like Bowser did.

I like this post and other thoughts from Tamora's Angel.

I also think that my time of suspecting Bowser Jr. has come to an end.

UNVOTE: Bowser Jr.

I am likely to be re-evaluating my reads but CoF getting votes is something I'm okay with.

Lukewarm was a townread for me because I've gotten the very strong impression that he truly believes that I'm scum. The questions about what my exact thought process was in early posts that I made are excessive and OTT and I don't feel like answering them right now, but I very much think that it comes from a town thought process.

[DeasVail]

I can't help but be provocative sometimes!

I'll answer them soon though, I promise.

[DeasVail]

@DV, why was Skybird on that list to begin with? and why were they taken off in 131?

Is there anything more than 196 that you need here?

If there is, then I probably don't have anything for you. Because that probably sums up my thoughts at the time. There wasn't much.

[DeasVail]

I also think that my time of suspecting Bowser Jr. has come to an end.

UNVOTE: Bowser Jr.

Can you elaborate here? Are you now townreading us, and if so, what changed your mind?

You've gone from painting almost everything I've posted as scummy to dropping it suddenly and unceremoniously.

~Spiffy

I looked at the painting and it made me feel sad.
I therefore decided the artwork was bad.

[DeasVail]

explain on the lukewarm bit bestie

I don't think I actually saw this when I made 436 (I forget), but like I said there, I just get this overwhelming sense that Lukewarm seriously thinks I'm scum. I think he legitimately does not understand why I would be playing the way I am playing as town and he seems legitimately bothered that some people are reading me as town. It could be an amazing performance as scum to fake that but I'm just not seeing it right now?

I have been repeatedly trying to engage with you why I see his posts as genuine and your interpretations as uncharitable. You just don't want to listen, and you're making that clear

I agree, but I think it means Lukewarm-town

--

VOTE: Cephrir

This was going to be a naked vote, but now it isn't.

[DeasVail]

but anyway heres a new vote

VOTE: Skybird

This is fine, but why not the spicier Ceph vote?

[DeasVail]

Hi DV! Can I help you?

That depends!

[DeasVail]

I kind of like Skybird's Icebox read. Icebox has sort of been on my radar more as well since my previously expressed reads.

[DeasVail]

Just noticed I’d been calling DV a she when DV has he listed as his pronoun. Sorry!

-GE

All good!! I don't mind.

I kind of like Skybird's Icebox read. Icebox has sort of been on my radar more as well since my previously expressed reads.

I don't! I doubt think enough has happened to warrant an expectation that anyone would have shifted their reads. I feel like the accusation as they put it could be leveled at practically anyone. What merit do you see here? And yes I am asking you to explain someone else's read.

I think you're interpreting what Skybird has said in a way that could be unfair to her. I agree that I'm not necessarily going to expect people to be "shifting" their reads, but I do expect reads to be dynamic to some degree.
You start off with a weak scumread on someone. Does what they post after that strengthen or weaken your read? I expect to get a feel for what someone is thinking as the game goes on, even at an early stage.

The Icebox slot has been interacting in a mostly disconnected way, which made sense to me, to begin with, and there's the example of mild hydra dissonance on the Bowser Jr slot. However, apart from that I do agree with Skybird that there doesn't seem to be that much evidence of genuine formulation of reads, and I suppose this was a part of what was causing me to look a little more closely at what Icebox is doing. I'm not a stage yet where I would vote for them or pursue them as a scumread, and I have suspicions re: Skybird's alignment, but Skybird having suspicions of the Icebox slot is something I liked.

[DeasVail]

oo im actually curious, do u have any reasons

I think that regardless of alignment, Cephrir is not feeling very engaged with the game. If he was feeling more into it, I have no doubt that he would be more

present

whether town or scum, so it's not an "activity" or "engagement" read, exactly. It's not the easiest to explain, but Cephrir's play just aligns with what I would expect from disengaged scum trying to look like they're doing stuff, rather than disengaged town who are trying to make sense of the game. Ceph's posts are responses to specific things, picking up on specific points that people are making and commenting on them, but I just don't get from his posts the sense of a depth of thought behind all that. All of his posts are things that informed scum could easily say, easily fake. There's no specific post from Ceph, or specific thing, just an impression from his overall play.

I

am

, though, interested in hearing more about Ceph's LLD vote.

[DeasVail]

UNVOTE: Cephrir
VOTE: Juliet

[DeasVail]

I think JC flips green because the wagon feels sketchy.

I'm not sure if this is ever an actual thing

[DeasVail]

you have not expressed any thoughts on the slot in thread before you just agreed to be thread masons

False. I had PoEd them town.

What makes you think I am scum?

[DeasVail]

I guess my point is, it seems odd to PoE someone as town when your scumreads feel as uncertain as they are

[DeasVail]

I think that Juliet is the best vote for this day.

Also intriguing that after everyone's talk of posting less to not exceed the "cap", no one is even close.

[DeasVail]

VOTE: DV

Thinking some. Will be back later.

Might revote wheme.

@wheme- towns who confirm overnight to one person are called friendly neighbors. Also just a weird thing to have as a fakeclaim.

Juliet why did you care so much about my DV read explanation? It seems like you used my not answering your question as a reason to complain about people ignoring you but you also haven't done anything with my response?

~Spiffy

This is an intriguing progression.

--

Also is there a reason why some people seem desperate for a non-Juliet option?

Idgi

[DeasVail]

On that note, @Icebox I see you vote for me (which at this stage probably implies that I'm your preferred Day 1 elim) and I think there is a number of people who would vote me without too much resistance if they were nudged into it.

Why didn't you want to do the nudge?

[DeasVail]

tbf I don't know if I think wheme is scum (I stopped thinking about Wheme-slot a long time ago and my life is better for it), but would probably elim it too just cause

[DeasVail]

You

VOTE: DV

Thinking some. Will be back later.

Might revote wheme.

@wheme- towns who confirm overnight to one person are called friendly neighbors. Also just a weird thing to have as a fakeclaim.

Wisdom is probably scum here btw

~Spiffy

[DeasVail]

OTH

Wisdom is probably scum here btw

~Spiffy

nah
btw I'm gonna UNVOTE: , could maybe vote JC but she's closer to null rn than scum (but I think she is in that nullscum range)

-GE

[DeasVail]

LLD

lld are you townreading juliet?

eh.

[DeasVail]

Icebox

I think I am good with either a JC or a wheme elim, and just people who are off both wagons should pick a side so we can see where the chip fall.

I don't like this mentality. But on the otherhand, who cares what I like and don't like.

-Bell

VOTE: DV
Work time
-Bell

[DeasVail]

This is an intriguing progression.

--

Also is there a reason why some people seem desperate for a non-Juliet option?

Idgi

What is intriguing about it?

And name names, who do you see as "desperate" for a non-Juliet option?

~Spiffy

These questions don't seem like questions intended to better your read of me. They just seem like questions.

[DeasVail]

On that note, @Icebox I see you vote for me (which at this stage probably implies that I'm your preferred Day 1 elim) and I think there is a number of people who would vote me without too much resistance if they were nudged into it.

Why didn't you want to do the nudge?

Huh? I did nudge you, then I voted you.

-Bell

It was not me that you were meant to nudge

[DeasVail]

I dunno who the scum are Marci.
I sorta think DV is scum this game because their interaction style is very touch and go and *repeats words about DV posting probable BS in an attempt to appear fair or even handed*

Everybody else is meh.

-Bell

I'd much rather be that than meh

[DeasVail]

As the players wait in dusky light
Awaiting the respite that is night
I think back on the day's many quarrels
And language becoming far less floral
For now, I suppose, there is little to say
But mark my words, the scum will pay

[DeasVail]

Again I am sorry I was not of more help to you all this game.

If there's anything you'd like me to re-read and give you thoughts on; I will be happy to do it.

Believe me, it's okay
It was our fault today
Any help would be a blessing
Fare thee well and don't be stressing

[DeasVail]

Bowser Jr. and Icebox, what has changed in your reads/approach to the game between towards the end of Day 1 and now?

[DeasVail]

Icebox, bowser jr., why aren’t you voting for me?

What you’re doing today makes it look like you were just trying to get a wagon on me D1 as a possible non-Juliet elim.

[DeasVail]

Icebox, bowser jr., why aren’t you voting for me?

What you’re doing today makes it look like you were just trying to get a wagon on me D1 as a possible non-Juliet elim.

This sounds like a complex thought that I don't understand.

They both voted for me towards the end of D1 instead of voting JC, which should imply that they wanted me dead, but they’ve both done very little to explore that today. Icebox is sort of engaging LLD about it but it feels token effort to me

[DeasVail]

Are you going to vote for anyone Pav, DV, OTH?

Nah not yet.

OTH is my preferred vote at this point though.

[DeasVail]

Why is no one seeing this?

JC claimed she could write a note. She did.

Wheme claimed he could vote after he died. He is.

Wheme also said he was a friendly neighbor. In that post, it refers to wheme in the 3d person. "Someone" off stage said they received Wheme's FN. Who was that?

This is all correct

[DeasVail]

Does anyone townnread Ceph or DV and is able to sell that to me

I feel like other than maybe Dunn I'm townreading everyone else but can't read those two

If anything Ceph's lack of attempt to get me to townread him after I started suspecting him is sort of town.

Also I think I am town and will sell you that read for 2 gold?

--

GuiltyLion, I like your comprehensive post on Galron. I don't have the time right now to revisit Galron's posts and my thoughts on them more specifically, but essentially I'd say he's probably in the bottom half of my reads, and I remember thinking that it would be weird for him to be scum but I don't remember exactly why. The only specific thought about him that I remember is that the meltdown over Wheme being Friendly Neighbor and the crier claiming it anonymously but not in thread would be a strange thing for scum to fake caring about.. but I could see it in some sort of bizarre world where Galron just decides to see how much he can get away with making up.

I plan on engaging a bit more with your Galron read tomorrow and sharing more detailed thoughts.

[DeasVail]

Does anyone townnread Ceph or DV and is able to sell that to me

I feel like other than maybe Dunn I'm townreading everyone else but can't read those two

If anything Ceph's lack of attempt to get me to townread him after I started suspecting him is sort of town.

Also I think I am town and will sell you that read for 2 gold?

--

GuiltyLion, I like your comprehensive post on Galron. I don't have the time right now to revisit Galron's posts and my thoughts on them more specifically, but essentially I'd say he's probably in the bottom half of my reads, and I remember thinking that it would be weird for him to be scum but I don't remember exactly why. The only specific thought about him that I remember is that the meltdown over Wheme being Friendly Neighbor and the crier claiming it anonymously but not in thread would be a strange thing for scum to fake caring about.. but I could see it in some sort of bizarre world where Galron just decides to see how much he can get away with making up.

I plan on engaging a bit more with your Galron read tomorrow and sharing more detailed thoughts.

[DeasVail]

Does anyone townnread Ceph or DV and is able to sell that to me

I feel like other than maybe Dunn I'm townreading everyone else but can't read those two

If anything Ceph's lack of attempt to get me to townread him after I started suspecting him is sort of town.

Also I think I am town and will sell you that read for 2 gold?

--

GuiltyLion, I like your comprehensive post on Galron. I don't have the time right now to revisit Galron's posts and my thoughts on them more specifically, but essentially I'd say he's probably in the bottom half of my reads, and I remember thinking that it would be weird for him to be scum but I don't remember exactly why. The only specific thought about him that I remember is that the meltdown over Wheme being Friendly Neighbor and the crier claiming it anonymously but not in thread would be a strange thing for scum to fake caring about.. but I could see it in some sort of bizarre world where Galron just decides to see how much he can get away with making up.

I plan on engaging a bit more with your Galron read tomorrow and sharing more detailed thoughts.

Grand plans do not always eventuate, but further to the above I guess what I lack from Galron is any real effort to look town, and that makes it difficult for me to have him as a strong scumread. A lot of the jokey non-serious stuff seems reasonably likely from town just doing whatever.

[DeasVail]

I guess what I lack from Galron is any real effort to look town, and that makes it difficult for me to have him as a strong scumread

I'm never a fan of this argument - they are not trying to look town so they must be town. There are so many assumptions baked into the take.

Do you actually think he's town or do you just not get scum vibes?

For what it's worth, this is not an argument for Galron being town, just me not having Galron as a top scumread.

Obviously circumstances are a little different now though.

[DeasVail]

I haven't read up properly (even "skimmed" would be generous) but why are we voting Dunn?

[DeasVail]

I haven't read up properly (even "skimmed" would be generous) but why are we voting Dunn?

Are you townreading Dunn or is this just an empty post?

It’s just an empty post

[DeasVail]

I actually only just read his claim now and had previously just assumed it was bs without reading it.

(If this sounds ridiculous, then that’s because it probably is)

I think the chance of him being town is high enough that I want to vote someone else, like OTH!

[DeasVail]

A reread quenches some of the fire
Let us see what else shall transpire

VOTE: Cephrir

[DeasVail]

A reread quenches some of the fire
Let us see what else shall transpire

VOTE: Cephrir

What did you see when rereading?

-GE

Your slot was more town than I thought.

[DeasVail]

I think cephrirs post conveys he doesn’t give a fuck this game, a typically town-Cephrir trait. He sounds nothing like bloodstained.

Of the three, he’s the only one I’m against for reasons that aren’t “there’s a person tracked to TWO people who have had malicious actions against them”

It feels like Ceph is doing the minimum amount possible to appear engaged and town, and I don't get the sense of there being a town-mind behind Ceph's posts trying to solve the game. He's just saying things.

[DeasVail]

A reread quenches some of the fire
Let us see what else shall transpire

VOTE: Cephrir

We have 36 hours left, if you're voting against the mechanically probable guilty, you'll need to do more than naked vote vanity wagons right now

There are people that suspect Ceph and the reasons for suspecting Ceph are not difficult to figure out. It's a very straightforward scumread.

I like that option better than the options that you would consider valid and so I'm voting there for now. Where people are actually voting is relevant, but so is where people realistically could be voting.

[DeasVail]

I think cephrirs post conveys he doesn’t give a fuck this game, a typically town-Cephrir trait. He sounds nothing like bloodstained.

Of the three, he’s the only one I’m against for reasons that aren’t “there’s a person tracked to TWO people who have had malicious actions against them”

It feels like Ceph is doing the minimum amount possible to appear engaged and town, and I don't get the sense of there being a town-mind behind Ceph's posts trying to solve the game. He's just saying things.

i don't know how i gave off the impression that i am engaged!

You managed to accrue an impressive number of townreads though!

[DeasVail]

WhemeStar (7): Bowser Jr., Cephrir, Skybird, Off The Hook, Pavowski, Lukewarm, Juliet Capulet
Juliet Capulet (6): Tamora's Angel, GuiltyLion, Wisdom, Lady Lambdadelta, DeasVail, WhemeStar
DeasVail (1): Icebox
Bowser Jr. (1): Dunnstral
Off The Hook (1): Child of Fairies

Not Voting (1): Galron

I'd probably want some kind of further confirmation on JC's alignment before diving too hard down this rabbithole but I would say this is a good VC to return to later. If JC was in fact conf!scum, I'd bet there's at least one other scum on the Wheme wagon. I'm hard townreading Bowser Jr and Lukewarm, and we have effectively a mechanical inno on Skybird (in either world of town/scum Galron then Skybird is town), so I'd look in {Ceph, OTH, Pav} for another scum.

I have received info (and no I'm not going to share any more about this so don't @ me) indicating that Juliet will likely be revealed as town by the time we get to Day 3. If she isn't, then it's probably safe to assume she's confscum.

[DeasVail]

That is 2 very good players who rarely agree, agreeing. That should tell you something.

[DeasVail]

That is 2 very good players who rarely agree, agreeing. That should tell you something.

This post was meant to be accompanied by

"I can't handle this stroking of Wisdom's ego, but otherwise, good post.

Galron I thought you were only voting Dunn as the biggest counter, not due to Dunn being in your scumpile"

[DeasVail]

Don't let the formatting fool you, I seriously do know something that other people don't know that indicates Juliet=scum.

I liked the joke, dw

[DeasVail]

I am likely to vote Galron at this point

[DeasVail]

Okay, for him to be town that means that he needs to have happened to visit the person who was the night kill (but did not kill them) AND happen to have visited a person who had gold stolen from them (but did not steal from them) AND happen to be the only person with a flavor name pulled from a different play (and apparently only one flavor name despite having already claimed two abilities?)

Or, he is just scum.

I still worry he is town but there are just too many problems at this stage.

[DeasVail]

Ok, I was looking back on stuff that happened last night and I don't think Galron was the person who robbed me. I got my wages at the end of day 1. It appears that I wasn't robbed until the dawn actions. My notice about the missing gold didn't come until start of day . Did it happen like this for anyone else?

Is there a reason you think this didn’t occur as a night action though?

[DeasVail]

It might be helpful to know if GL received his result at beginning of dawn or beginning of day

[DeasVail]

My patience now is wearing thin
Town! Unite! Against sin

UNVOTE: Cephrir
VOTE: Galron

[DeasVail]

The reason why I thought Juliet might be town was that I had the ability to speak with her during Day 2, where she was still pretending to be town (saying that she would be revealed as town by the end of the phase). I am relieved that she wasn’t!

Also, I think Wisdom is scum.

[DeasVail]

BTW anyone think I'm partnered with Galron needs to look at how many times I doubled back and threw a new question his way, and imo none of them were slow pitches that could be swatted away easily, so anyone thinking I'm a Galron partner needs to consider why I continually trying to make him dig a deeper grave while having a general position of TRing/wanting to keep Galron alive. It's like my typical habit of asking aimless questions but with an actual honed edge in play this time.

-GE

Something about methinks protesting forthwith

Wisdom is like, way too obvious to sus CoF, unless you think all those posts at EoD were a stone bluff

Why not?

[DeasVail]

So you can now officially fuck off if you're trying to tie us to him

-GE

Posts like this only make me want to kill you more.

I am trying to see if there is a world where I save you today. This isn't helping your case

Why is it up to you to save OTH?

[DeasVail]

I will have more for you all over the course of my day/evening.

My suspicion on Wisdom is because I think the expressed confidence in Galron being town was put on, for the sake of emulating Wisdom-town confidence even when wrong. I don’t think that sort of confidence in Galron being town was possible from town, given all the issues with the Galron slot.

Also sheeping wheme ftw

PEdit @ceph I voted you because I thought it was doable as an alternative to Dunn/Galron.

More later in the day

[DeasVail]

My patience now is wearing thin
Town! Unite! Against sin

UNVOTE: Cephrir
VOTE: Galron

where is the trajectory

pedit: why were you townreading dunn there?

I don't know what is meant by the first question. Looking back at my posts, I can see that I forecast the fact that I was going to vote Galron, and from memory he was becoming less and less likely to be town.

As for the second, I didn't have strong reason to think that Dunn was town, but I thought you were scummier. Also it was probably part me being oppositional because of how headstrong Wisdom was being and the fact that I didn't understand why people were voting Dunn.

I haven't had the time to deep-think about this game, but (I think) that's not super unusual for this stage of the game for me. I feel like I get much more

into it

when town's struggling and there's more at stake. Day 1 Juliet felt like a good PoE scum candidate (and much more likely scum than Wheme). Day 2 I initially thought Galron's antics could be from town, but then it all just became so messy that I couldn't in my right mind let him live.

At this point I haven't read Wisdom's Day 2 posts to check to see if I still think he's scum, but as someone who is known (at least in my experience with him) to be very headstrong about reads even when they're wrong, to go ridiculously all in on Galron being town feels like a good strategy for Wisdom-scum. I don't think he's town because I don't think town in their right mind could have been so confident in Galron being town.

[DeasVail]

The reason why I thought Juliet might be town was that I had the ability to speak with her during Day 2, where she was still pretending to be town (saying that she would be revealed as town by the end of the phase). I am relieved that she wasn’t!

Also, I think Wisdom is scum.

Did you do this or did she

@DV please answer this when you get back: How were you able to speak with Juliet on Day 2?

~Spiffy

[DeasVail]

Js if Luke dies off of that I will channel him from beyond the grave

OH SO YOU'RE JEALOUS OF ME

I SEE HOW IT IS

[DeasVail]

Icebox, bowser jr., why aren’t you voting for me?

What you’re doing today makes it look like you were just trying to get a wagon on me D1 as a possible non-Juliet elim.

i'm wondering how this will progress (mostly noting for myself)

dv, why aren't you cute this game? it's all very serious and flat, but i'm not certain that's actually a scum trait for you

I don't think it will progress. I think they're both town. :/

Are you going to vote for anyone Pav, DV, OTH?

Nah not yet.

OTH is my preferred vote at this point though.

after this you basically said you wanted to vote OTH again, then reread and dropped it and never mentioned them again/are soft defending them now. what's with that?

I ended up thinking they were town for being messy in what I thought was an emotional town way but I don't know anymore. I was going to say that if I were to guess I'd say they're town, but even that makes me uncomfortable. I am fence-sitting on this read and that's what it's going to be right now.

[DeasVail]

Anyway, I think I totally should be in people's PoE and am surprised by certain people not voting me (e.g. Lukewarm, Icebox), but I would suggest that people just have faith. Yep. That's my defence.

I oddly feel... uncomfortable with the idea of OTH as scum. I know it's ridiculous in a similar way to Galron's ridiculousness, but Galron was caught out in a track claim and forced into it while OTH just... made the mess all by themselves? Maybe GuiltyLion will have some wise words for us all. (It would be funny if he thinks I'm scum)

I still think Wisdom is scum. I also am squinty about Pav, who I think has tried too hard to have "trajectory" on me. I can use that word too!

[DeasVail]

but as someone who is known (at least in my experience with him) to be very headstrong about reads even when they're wrong, to go ridiculously all in on Galron being town feels like a good strategy for Wisdom-scum. I don't think he's town because I don't think town in their right mind could have been so confident in Galron being town.

Youre contradicting yourself
"Wisdom is known to be headstrong even if he's wrong"
"I can't see how Wisdom can be so confident"

Nah

[DeasVail]

Wait Titus you’re claiming to be in a hood with GL who is dead? What do you make of DV claiming the same?

this is not what I'm claiming fwiw

[DeasVail]

Either I'm headstrong and confident and many times wrong or I'm not.

Yes

[DeasVail]

If yes, DV is also claiming to be in a pt with him, and we should definitely test for this

The way it sounds like theirs is a one time message.

This is correct

[DeasVail]

Okay I've caught up. The time for being vague is over.

Part of my role is that I can choose one newly dead player each day and send a message to them and they can send me a message back.

There are other, less important, components to my role, which I am willing to full-claim under the usual circumstances.

[DeasVail]

but as someone who is known (at least in my experience with him) to be very headstrong about reads even when they're wrong, to go ridiculously all in on Galron being town feels like a good strategy for Wisdom-scum. I don't think he's town because I don't think town in their right mind could have been so confident in Galron being town.

Youre contradicting yourself
"Wisdom is known to be headstrong even if he's wrong"
"I can't see how Wisdom can be so confident"

I wanted to provocative and see how Wisdom would respond, but I completely disagree with this post from Wisdom and I think it's a misrepresentation. The core argument I'm making is that the confidence in Galron-town was such a weird take that I don't think even headstrong-Wisdom would conceivably have that confidence in Galron-town, and to me it makes more sense as being Wisdom-scum emulating his town meta.

[DeasVail]

Obviously my ability today is much less useful than what Titus has. I’m not special anymore

[DeasVail]

GuiltyLion has spoken to me from the dead.
I shall follow his counsel, and see Pav dressed in red.

VOTE: Pavowski

(Happy to provide further detail on GL’s message when I have more time)

[DeasVail]

Okay I've caught up. The time for being vague is over.

Part of my role is that I can choose one newly dead player each day and send a message to them and they can send me a message back.

There are other, less important, components to my role, which I am willing to full-claim under the usual circumstances.

why didn't you target wheme with this???????

-GE

I was more interested in trying to work out what Juliet was. Wheme could still vote so I thought targeting Juliet would be more useful.

I’m not sure why there are so many question marks.

PEdit: I think it’s worth keeping in mind that I didn’t know that Juliet was scum. I thought she might be down after all the carrying on after her flip.

[DeasVail]

*town

[DeasVail]

Not flip, elim. Hopefully you knew what I meant

Explicitly not-flip

PEdit: That was a reference to wheme voting Wisdom Day 2

[DeasVail]

Did you decide to message Juliet before or after her crier post day 2?

After

[DeasVail]

GL had you as pretty bottom in his reads. Does he object to you dying?

He thinks I’m town but is not as sure in me being town as other reads. Some amount of inferring is here because he didn’t explicitly state his strength of townread on me

[DeasVail]

I don't think so.

-Bell

The summary of GL’s post is that he provided me a list of strong townreads who he has also discussed with Titus. He thinks Wisdom is town for having a similar view of the game to him. Has slight concern about OTH but thinks probably town. Thinks Pav is scum. Probably thinks I’m town but I’m sure that he’s not as certain of that as he is of his strong townreads.

[DeasVail]

That sounded like lining up a push on me after dv

Like I seriously am getting the impression you're taking everything I post in the worst possible light. I literally said I do not think you're the scummier of the two, and DV is far from a sure thing at this point.

I think this is the most concerning post. The original one was fine I think, but this has an appeasement vibe to it.

“I don’t think

you’re

scummy! It’s fine!”

[DeasVail]

i cant do this. i just have too much going on right now and this distraction is too much. im sorry

Good luck with all the things

Sorry for not being very fun to play with

[DeasVail]

Did you decide to message Juliet before or after her crier post day 2?

After

Since he just left everyone her full final reads list, what were you hoping to get from her / what did you ask her?

Because whether or not she was scum was such a huge source of debate given the lack of role reveal, I wanted to know whether it was something she was aware of and get a gauge on whether or not she was scum.

I kept my message to her deliberately open-ended to see what she would say, and she ended up giving me this emotional spiel about how upset she was that people were talking about her being scum and that she got confused by the wording of her PM, thinking that her role would be revealed at the beginning of day.

Perhaps unwisely, I thought a lot of this unnecessary effort for already dead scum pretending to be town, which is why the scum flip was a relief to me.

[DeasVail]

I also did not expect to get a whole lot from Wheme

[DeasVail]

Any good associatives out of it?

No

[DeasVail]

Marci, who do you think is scum and why is it me?

[DeasVail]

Pretty sure LLD is not scum

[DeasVail]

I think Enchant is probably scum.

(Now that Ceph is no longer here I feel less bad saying that)

[DeasVail]

Wait so are Titus and DV literally claiming to have the same ability? Why are we not concerned about this?

~Spiffy

Ssshhh

[DeasVail]

I think Enchant is probably scum.

(Now that Ceph is no longer here I feel less bad saying that)

Say what you will about Ceph or Enchant, but this is such a strange way to declare this. You were sus of the slot to begin with but didn't want to express it when Ceph was driving?

Lol

Ceph is a friend of mine and someone I have had a lot of fun playing with before but I felt like this was a less fun experience for him, which made me sad.

I would think this explanation or something like it would have been considered reasonably likely, especially with the context of Ceoh’s posts about me

[DeasVail]

idrt LLD is scum but I would like if she didn't push one of the slots that should just never be elimmed here

this roundabout language makes me twitch

BUT we are losing sight of voting Pavowski and that is not good.

[DeasVail]

Ceph didn't feel like scum to me. What are the reasons to suspect their slot today, after the Galron flip?

I don't think it's out of the question to start bussing Galron when Cephrir did, but Enchant is also not my favored elim for today.

[DeasVail]

*sigh*

I’m not scum.

I feel like I put far more effort into how I appear as scum and the messiness here is more town-me. For example, for town-me the late joins on JC and Galron make sense as me coming around to them being scum. Whereas scum-me getting on their wagons is pointless because a late join onto a buddy’s wagon looks worse than not joining at all. But I get that I’m in the PoE and that’s okay. I’d just… obviously rather not.

[DeasVail]

I don’t really have an answer to that

[DeasVail]

Did you guys read what I said

Why does scum Pav loverize a buddy and a townie instead of two townies

Why not though?

It does generally make a scumbuddy less likely to be eliminated. Loverising two town is like getting an extra kill, but so is loverizing a buddy and town in the event that the buddy is eliminated. Plus it's less suspicious for Galron to do that?

I agree that overally loverizing scum+town has less scum likelihood than loverizing town+town, but I still think that the way Pav went about it is suspicious and not consistent with a town approach.

Also there are limited scum options from my perspective and Pav is still a reasonably likely one.
I would totally vote Enchant instead if you think though.

[DeasVail]

DV posted in our neighborhood that he thought if CoF was scum, you are probably scum as well.

I can see why this was the interpretation of my post, but it is also a strange interpretation and a strange thing to post here.

I also think that it is worth following GuiltyLion on this vote today.

[DeasVail]

I had asked for his thoughts on CoF and he said she was strong town. I questioned that because I didn't remember much from her iso. He said he would explain more later. Next he said CoF wasn't as town as he thought. He didn't think she was scum with Galron unless also scum with OTH.

This is close to what actually happened.

Upon re-reading CoF's ISO, I did indeed question why I had CoF as strong town, but what I said in the neighbourhood was that 1425 was an unlikely post for CoF to make if buddies with Galron, unless CoF was also scum with OTH.

[The reason for me making this comment was because I felt that CoF would be less likely to say "ugh fine Galron, but OTH is worse!" unless buddies with both of them]

but instead of asking me about it, Skybird posts this in this thread:

DV posted in our neighborhood that he thought if CoF was scum, you are probably scum as well.

Which feels weirdly as if she is trying to corrale OTH against me. And... while I could see it as an interpretation of what I posted, it feels a bit like a misrepresentation to me, because it's not what I posted. It's Skybird's interpretation of what I posted.

But I also don't actually think Skybird is scum. I just think the way she has went about this whole thing is weird and unfair and probably not from scum but also I'm actually quite annoyed by it!

[DeasVail]

I also don't think me saying "this would be a weird post for X to make if scum with Y, unless also scum with Z" means the same thing as "If X and Y are scum, then Z is also scum", especially since it wasn't a fully formed thought.

But yeah. The bringing up of CoF and asking me about it in the neighbourhood and posting what she did as if using it as... ammunition against me is just boggling to me.

[DeasVail]

in what world does a me-galron-oth scum trio make sense?

and that's the thing, I never said it did

I saw a post that I thought made you town, but that that specific post might have also made sense if you were scum with OTH.

I do think that whole thing is ridiculous and I'm not awake enough to be able to work out why it happened.

[DeasVail]

I don’t have too much more to say that I haven’t said already here. I think that it’s worth thinking about GL’s read on Pav because he correctly read me as town.
I think my main thought is to treat reads cautiously. I’m skeptical of anyone being considered automatically town and think it’s always worth re-examining reads and the reason for them. It might be as simple as 2 of Pav/Enchant/LLD being scum but it may also not be that simple.