Shakespeare uPick | End

[Titus]

I'm Titus..

Hi Titus, I managed to not accidentally lead a day 1 miselim on you this game! lmao

Lol

[Titus]

There's three people who claim lost gold. I'm wondering if the lost gold comes from visiting the same target.

[Titus]

Visiting people is not something I can do.

There goes that theory.

[Titus]

alright well I don't know if I played this as effectively as I could have, probably if I wasn't out of town last weekend and we had a longer day phase I could have done more but now with fewer than 3 days to go I don't want to delay a lot further. I was hoping to get more in terms of a response from a few players like Wis/Ceph but I don't want to keep withholding.

I have hard info to claim, I am a tracker and last night I tracked Galron to both Whemestar and Skybird. I believe this explains both the Wheme NK and Skybird's claim to lost gold, it is why I am so certain Galron is scum, and I think it's also effectively an inno result on Skybird once we have a scum!Galron flip.

VOTE: Galron

[Titus]

Also, I've been thinking about it and I'm not sure I completely buy the argument that Juliet was scum. It's based on the idea that town!Juliet would have addressed the fact that she didn't flip in her last will. I agree it's weird she didn't address that, but in a similar vein, why wouldn't a scum!Juliet mention it either? I think there could exist worlds where Juliet is town and genuinely didn't think she needed to reaffirm her claim despite her not flipping.

She might be scum, but I think it's safer going forward if we don't assume that she was

This is understandable. Scum could just janitor the N1 flip by default.

I still am in favor of Juliet scum, but that doesn't mean it's certain. We should still look at both scenarios. I admit that's hard for me though in terms of mafia. I usually deal in given, provable facts rather than investigating. That's why I find it easier to defend people than to push scum.

[Titus]

EBWOP the D1 flip

[Titus]

I’m at work, but I’m breaking my rule to say that someone loverized me with Galron.

-Bell

Thought Galron might’ve done it but sounds like that’s not the case.

-Bell

This is definitely a scum ability. Hopefully this will be caught out at massclaim if not before then.

[Titus]

meh? i had the ability to loverize myself to someone as town once. i used it as a vig. this is just a better version of that, no?

Bell didn't do it to himself it sounds like though.

[Titus]

Why are we killing this?

Did you miss Guilty Lion's guilty?

[Titus]

I don't get how his claim could be town.

[Titus]

he hasn't even claimed

Brain wires crossed. I don't see how any claim makes him town.

[Titus]

Luckily this is not a court of law

~Spiffy

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is hard to achieve in mafia.

Even though I dislike the Galron claim, it suffices to create reasonable doubt.

[Titus]

Luckily this is not a court of law

~Spiffy

If this were a court of law, I'd Rule 56 you and get atty fees for it.

Or 12(b)(6) you.

Rule 56 is better. It (oversimplifying) says that there's no disagreement as to important facts and the facts support my side. It's unlikely to get attorney's fees for this.

Rule 12(b)(6) applies to an initial complaint that doesn't detail a problem a court can resolve. That doesn't apply as we have the power to eliminate or not.

Rule 11 is the most likely rule that can be applied which is for frivolous motions. Even then you have to give opposing counsel time to withdraw.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dunn

I feel Galron is probably scum, but I agree with the mechanical call more.

[Titus]

I still think that we should kill galron. If that is not happening, I would like to kill OTH

No.

[Titus]

lurk Dunn = town Dunn.

No. Dunn lurks as scum.

This

[Titus]

Note to self: Look at the VCs tomorrow

[Titus]

Both my left brain and right brain agree on this.

VOTE: Pavowski

I'm limited to 75 posts today and it's not a scum ability that caused it.

[Titus]

Looking at the VCs, I want Pav.

Pav, take charge. Who's scum? Who's town?

[Titus]

DV is not a horrible vote.

[Titus]

I think Pav is scummy regardless of Galron's alignment, Ceph could go either way but notably more scummy if Galron is town, Dunn is almost never scum if Galron is scum

them my final words, hope to see you all tomorrow

[Titus]

Join me Wisdom

[Titus]

I'm not as sure on DV and I'd like to work with you on a wagon I feel good about rather than meh ok.

[Titus]

Why is Wisdom/DV an either or? What are your thoughts on Ceph?

[Titus]

That’s L-2. No more votes on OTH please, no need to rush the day.

~Spiffy

Yes. I will have an announcement most likely that will make us prolong the day. There's stuff I need to do.

Plus both wagons are shit.

[Titus]

Also sheeping wheme ftw

You're a good poet.

[Titus]

My right brain would vote OTH. So meh

[Titus]

Split Mind

We gathered together to lim scum
Scum tried hard to eliminate WhemeStar
Town caught Juliet Capulet easy hun
Our great townblock will have us go far

I desired to give Pavowski another word
Yet scum refused to silence him yesterday
I do suspect he will always be heard
This scum read may change with more time today

Then we caught the real, evil Juliet, Galron
LLD tried to defend by speaking
The guilty came from the GuiltyLion
That ensured Galron would be no evil king

Talking with GuiltyLion, I said good
To predict the nightkill was easily smooth
So we arrived in solid neighborhood
He'll be my right brain to hopefully sooth

This will be a good one night special talk
Speak too many words and our host will balk

[Titus]

Wait Titus you’re claiming to be in a hood with GL who is dead? What do you make of DV claiming the same?
Also imma try to work with marci to write a sonnet together

-GE

GuiltyLion discussed his message back with me, so I feel he is telling the truth. I'm not sure what to make of it given I have to guess the NK right to get a hood.

[Titus]

If yes, DV is also claiming to be in a pt with him, and we should definitely test for this

The way it sounds like theirs is a one time message.

[Titus]

Wait Titus you’re claiming to be in a hood with GL who is dead? What do you make of DV claiming the same?
Also imma try to work with marci to write a sonnet together

-GE

GuiltyLion discussed his message back with me, so I feel he is telling the truth. I'm not sure what to make of it given I have to guess the NK right to get a hood.

So GL confirmed that he sent a message to DV? Or that he can?

Yes that he could. I just agreed to his message.

[Titus]

Really Likely Town or Conftown: {Skybird, COF, Dunn, Bowser Jr, Lukewarm, LLD, Titus}
LeanTown: {Wisdom, DV, Ceph, Icebox}
ProbScum: {OTH, Pav}

He just gave me his reads

[Titus]

I modified the labels as to not direct quote

[Titus]

I'm willing to vote DV.

[Titus]

VOTE: DV

[Titus]

Titus what pushed you over to voting dv?

The fact apparently he could talk to Juliet. Makes me think my role is a CC.

[Titus]

Titus what pushed you over to voting dv?

The fact apparently he could talk to Juliet. Makes me think my role is a CC.

But can't you confirm it via his ability to talk to GuiltyLion?

Or do you just think that means one town and one scum with the ability?

I have already confirmed DV and GuiltyLion are in communication. GuiltyLion can send a message to DV through the mod.

I think one town one scum with the ability.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pav

[Titus]

DV should have the message.

[Titus]

Hm.

Perhaps Loveriser failed because of same sex of targets flavors?
Like... Can you force male to love male in this game or woman on woman, etc.
... I hope i don't get banned for nontolerance but that's what i think.

It's not nontolerance to suspect that as there have been dance games with gendered roles. However, that would lead to absurd results in this game most likely and make the role near useless.

[Titus]

im confused why titus went for a pav vote instead of vote parking u when she said her roles like a cc to urs tho

I've been half paying attention and confused. I had just noticed his role today. I'm fine with either dying but GL has a weak TR on DV.

[Titus]

The biggest thing I have against LLD scum is she has no problem eliminating dead weight.

[Titus]

Can Pav and OTH talk about their reads on each other and how they got there?

[Titus]

That’s L-2. No more votes on OTH please, no need to rush the day.

~Spiffy

Yes. I will have an announcement most likely that will make us prolong the day. There's stuff I need to do.

Did this happen?

No, my confession about keeping GL here for a phase didn't happen.

[Titus]

GuiltyLion was particularly unimpressed by Pav's answer and moderately unimpressed by OTH's. He's looking for specific posts.

I found Pav's answer somewhat contradictory.

[Titus]

Wait so are Titus and DV literally claiming to have the same ability? Why are we not concerned about this?

~Spiffy

Different. His is GL can send one message. Mine is a temporary PT. GL confirms DV's role in our PT.

Despite this conflict, GL has a weak TR on DV and a strong one on me.

[Titus]

So yeah OTH today, accept no substitutes.

You don't have the authority to boss around the thread, given how wrong you've been.

[Titus]

Might still be wrong on Dunnstral but that was a specific "if galrpn is town, then this" read.

No it wasnt. You were pushing for Dunn while claiming Galron is scum.

This.

You also left the JC wagon for OTH.

If you were anyone else, I'd think you were scum.

[Titus]

I still think you could be, but I'd rather focus on Pav/DV.

[Titus]

Also if you were expecting nice LLD she left the building this week. All my patience is left at the door where I get beat on by a kid and come home with bruises every day. I got nothing left for you fuckers. 0.

Sorry about what happened to you. I don't expect a nice LLD though.

I do expect an LLD who responds to Wisdom's questions.

[Titus]

LLD, I don't expect this to change, but your contempt for people leads to town losses due to a lack of cohesion. I have done much better since listening to my townreads.

GL has some moderate interest in OTH. I just don’t have interest in following you this game.

Ironically, if I thought you were scum, I'd be more likely to sheep you.

[Titus]

Funny because I actually focused on eliminating JC most of day 1. I actually worked with you Day 2, so why do you have contempt for me this game?

[Titus]

I'll admit I've proven nothing. I had a feeling JC was scum and spent most of the day arguing for that, but I was also willing to back off if most felt I was wrong. I don't have absolute proof of anything. That's also why I am not tunneling DV. I don't have a plan this game, nor am I in the spot to do it.

This post reeks of projection. You're expecting to find the old Titus rather than looking at the Titus in front of you this game.

My assessment of you is not that LLD likes to bus. It's that LLD is more likely than not to bus dead wait. JC was dead weight. Is it universally true? No. That's why I want to read you.

I think you responded like town LLD which is frustrating.

[Titus]

You're arguing that I'm not looking at the LLD in front of me, when you're not looking at the Titus in this very game.

You object to be being 100% certain and spamming my way through.
This game: I posted JC was scum. I backed off when no one listened. I got back on when not alone.
You object to me planning out the game.
This game: I haven't come close to planning out the game. The closest I have come is working with you to consider the possibility of leashing Galron.
You object to me being wrong.
This game: I predicted the nightkill.


Some games I have off games, but I am not the same Titus you knew. People change.


Also FTR: I love LLD outside of mafia.

[Titus]

Oth can you provide a read wall, even if it's just one head?

[Titus]

I'm kinda scatterbrained atm but maybe that'll serve as reason to actually parse the flipped scum for myself
so like, maybe later but my thoughts are kinda dated, I've been running off a readlist I posted like mid-D1 in our chat

-GE

I don't care if it's gut or dated. Those are valid disclaimers for now.

[Titus]

I see Enchant posting elsewhere. He hasn't posted in our neighborhood either.

[Titus]

no worries, Pav is still today's lim.

you know, I said this, but actually

UNVOTE:

Why does scum Pav loverize a buddy and a townie instead of two townies?

At first I thought the loverizing happened after the guilty and then Pav would obviously have motivation to do that, but at night when Galron was still safe?

Isn't it better for a scum loverizer to tie two townies?

Depends on the ETA of the scum honestly.

[Titus]

Meaning?

If he knew his buddy would die anyway, they still get an extra town death without outing.

[Titus]

How would he know that? It was before the guilty

I'd have to check how EoD 1 went down again but I remember Galron being FoSed. Might be wrong.

[Titus]

So your position is scum canceled the loverizer?

[Titus]

To recap, the mod did not inform Icebox he had been vanillaized until the pause and did not break the loverization until the pause

So the two are 99.9% related

So the vanillaization came after the loverization?

[Titus]

They both happened on n1

That seems unlikely that scum would do both and be unaware of the order of operations.

VOTE: DV

[Titus]

Why would town vanilla Icebox

[Titus]

Also, I have a large theme in signups. Friends, Enemies and That Other Person.

[Titus]

Any input from GL? What does he think about pav and dv now
Personally i feel like unvoting again

He still feels like Pav > DV. He said a lot worth noting and I'll paraphrase later. I agree with his reasonings though.

VOTE: Pav

[Titus]

Gamma am I just wrong on you
I feel I owe lld a sheep or two

Based on past games, that's ok.
Based off this game, no.
Based off my read of OTH, no.
Based of GL's read, yes.

[Titus]

Yeah It's not Pav.

What about his play makes you say that?

[Titus]

GL is wholly unpersuaded by the mechanical argument. He sees no reason to loverize Icebox if town. He thinks Pav has contributed nothing. He was very clear that

Pav is never to live until ELO.

.

He also says he cannot remember the case against DV. That's a bad case for him flipping scum.

GL made like 10 posts on these points.

[Titus]

VOTE: Wisdom

Something is off.

What about a Pav Wisdom team?

I feel Wisdom is leaning awfully hard into a mech clear when mech can just as easily select the opposite.

[Titus]

GuiltyLion says DV elimination may be needed to stave off apathy. He still thinks its wrong but wants a healthy game. He hopes to have the game reasses Pav if DV is town.

[Titus]

i want other peoples opinions as well before i promise anything <3

You're just looking for three names to vig?

[Titus]

i want other peoples opinions as well before i promise anything <3

You're just looking for three names to vig?

nono i just want suggestions it doesnt have to be 3
preferably with reasons too cuz im a bit dumb

I'll get with GuiltyLion on this and get back to you hopefully tomorrow.

[Titus]

GuiltyLion is really sure that DV is town and laid out mech/common sense arguments I'm feeling a bit to tired and sick to paraphrase.

He'd shoot Pav.

If I was a vig, I would buckle down more and read the thread. If I couldn't, I would have two different shots based off the lim.

If the lim flipped town, shoot the opposite wagon of DV and OTH given the deadlock.

If the lim flipped scum, shoot Pav.

Then again, I might just shoot Pav. It would depend on how heroish I felt.

[Titus]

I will also be around as time runs down today.

Any reason we shouldn't just turn the elimination on you?

[Titus]

DV has the mech argument but feels town, GL townreads it and Pav is on it. Given wagon size, makes sense to have a busser

OTH I townread harder, GL townreads hard, and aside from Icebox and CoF, I don't like the composition.

If I had to, I'd vote DV.

Given the reservations I have with both wagons, I still hope for a Pav swap.

[Titus]

also titus. few hours left. vote dv.

How many?

[Titus]

If the lim flipped scum, shoot Pav.

pretty sure dv and pav arent scum together for reasons Ive said but you do you

I find your reasons not persuasive. I like GL's better and I know he's town.

[Titus]

12 and a half or something

Then I'll vote after my morning docket.

[Titus]

Pav swap isnt happening because its unlikely he loverized his buddy instead of two townies

just vote dv and put him at e-1

I find Pav loverizing obvtown as a sign of scum and that he felt that his buddy was going down anyway.

[Titus]

No one has said why Pav's play is town.

[Titus]

Why would he think galron was going down during n1

Nobody was suspecting him

Galron is not the type of player who goes deep and there's no reason for town to loverize Icebox.

[Titus]

Still, why not loverize icebox to another good townie and kill two birds with one stone

Also, why claim this action?

Either way is an extra dead townie.

He was under pressure at the time. From your perspective, if it's an action that can be argued as town by wouldn't he claim?

Why is Pav town by play?

[Titus]

I did promise I would vote after my morning docket. I can't in good conscience vote someone both GL and I are townreading.

I do find GL's DV reasons persuasive though, but the other option is literally one of his biggest TRs.

So

VOTE: DV

[Titus]

Sorry DV.

I do think DV has a point about re-examining town reads as we go forward. One person I would like to look at is Wisdom.

Wisdom - Pav - LLD almost certainly has at least 1 scum.

[Titus]

My vote is spiritually on CoF

CoF please full claim in your next post. Thanks!

Let's not quicklim but I second this

Not sure I agree here.

[Titus]

I'm alive.

Can we do what we should have done yesterday now?

VOTE: Pav

[Titus]

Titus cof is alive
And you still prefer pav?

Yes. Why should CoF being alive mean anything? Someone (not me) could have healed him. CoF has also put more effort than Pav. I'm also trusting myself and GuiltyLion over people who wagoned town v town yesterday.

[Titus]

CoF could be scum, but I like a Pav elimination more.

[Titus]

If we don't get a claim of someone healing him will you vote him?

Nope. You don't need me.

Healing is just one of the ways CoF survives. I'd answer another, but CoF scum would just copy that rationale.

[Titus]

CoF could be scum, but I like a Pav elimination more.

y

Pav doing nothing since Wisdom has been yelling about Pav's role. Pav being scummy before that. No one articulating a townread on Pav based on what he's done. Pav loverizing a buddy and obvtown is completely in a scum wheelhouse.

CoF has been hunting and had no reason to claim like they did.

[Titus]

If we don't get a claim of someone healing him will you vote him?

Nope. You don't need me.

Healing is just one of the ways CoF survives. I'd answer another, but CoF scum would just copy that rationale.

I would say, we need CoF to check in with a full claim.

You want to look at them with again after that happens?

If there's new information, I'll reasses.

[Titus]

Titus, are you still able to communicate with GL?

No.

[Titus]

Actually mine is just a post limit, not like bowser's

[Titus]

Actually mine is just a post limit, not like bowser's

?

I have a cap of 75 posts because I succeeded in hooding GL. Your claim of giving these limitations is odd.

[Titus]

@titus, did gl mention anything about being offered potions?

Let me check.

[Titus]

@titus, did gl mention anything about being offered potions?

Let me check.

Yes and he explicitly said he townread the seller.

[Titus]

Did he know who the seller was? Did he say which options he was given?

No, he wanted to find out more but we didn't feel there was a good way to do that.
Yes he detailed them.

A townread on Wisdom makes sense though on nightplay. We likely had similar thoughts. Don't let the cop die without getting every result on the table.

[Titus]

I don't think scum wisdom ever gives gl the option of posting after his death, when gl had claimed tracker and they were killing gl to stop the tracker results. Like killing him, but also letting him give another result seems counterproductive.

(I know that he could not track any one else that night, but he claimed that he could)

To get to Wisdom scum, you'd need a rolecop imo.

[Titus]

I think we're close to just PoE at this point.

[Titus]

Does anyone know who the fuck Ariel is?

[Titus]

Why don't we keep CoF alive one more day to stop an NK?

We still have Pav and Dunn.

[Titus]

how about no

You townread both?

[Titus]

I dont townread cof

He's patently town. You were wrong yesterday. I've been right the whole time. Why not listen to me?

[Titus]

I dont townread cof

He's patently town. You were wrong yesterday. I've been right the whole time. Why not listen to me?

You have not been right the whole time, you tried to save Galron by voting me out without explaining why, but town forced a strong majority regardless with Wheme's dead vote not voing but still needing an extra vote to eliminate

You've been falling off, especially now that there are a crap ton of clears.

[Titus]

Dunnstral
Bowser Jr. - Obvtown
Lady Lambdadelta - Watcher thing (not sure I get it)
Icebox - Clear 6 ways from Sunday
Off The Hook - Obvtown
Wisdom - Clear unless scum rolecopped Skybird
Pavowski
Enchant
Child of Fairies - Clear because Dreamer
Titus - Me, clear because dead chat
Skybird - Clear bc Galron
Lukewarm - Probtown


Dunn, Enchant, Pav and Dunn is our pool

[Titus]

I can see it being two of CoF/Enchant/Pav. I have you as likely town because of the gold thing, not the dead chat thing. I don't understand how you got to Wisdom cleared. CoF's claim does not make them clear.

Wisdom gave GL the option to leave a message after death.

[Titus]

And we just have him do dreaming god again. If CoF is scum, he can't nightkill.

[Titus]

So it doesn't get lost on old pages.

@Titus I have a hanging question for you in 2905

@notty @spiff I have a hanging question for you in 2905

Spoiler: 2905

Who all has full claimed?

I did. Wisdom did. OTH did. Icebox did. Pav did. LLD did.

@Skybird claimed roleblocker - was that all?

@Titus you claimed your guess the night kill ability - was that all?

@Bowser Jr claimed to be a neighborizor in our hood - did that ability work last night? They also gave a post restriction. (That feels like a complete claim, but let me know)

Dunn and enchant I don't think I have seen anything from

That's the only role I have.

VOTE: Enchant

[Titus]

So it doesn't get lost on old pages.

@Titus I have a hanging question for you in 2905

@notty @spiff I have a hanging question for you in 2905

Spoiler: 2905

Who all has full claimed?

I did. Wisdom did. OTH did. Icebox did. Pav did. LLD did.

@Skybird claimed roleblocker - was that all?

@Titus you claimed your guess the night kill ability - was that all?

@Bowser Jr claimed to be a neighborizor in our hood - did that ability work last night? They also gave a post restriction. (That feels like a complete claim, but let me know)

Dunn and enchant I don't think I have seen anything from

That's the only role I have.

VOTE: Enchant

Do you visit the person you guess ?

Who did you guess each night?

Presume so, never checked

Don't feel that's protown to answer as my role depends on scum wifom.

[Titus]

Not that I ever even cared about whether you got into your hood or not, I was mainly trying to get Titus to answer without realizing that I was directly looking at her

I know that Titus visited someone night 1, and I did not see a claim as to why she would have visited them

Well then I should answer for night 1.

I visited Pav.

[Titus]

why would pav die over the claimed fn

FN would be doctored and had no charisma.

[Titus]

still pav is random

Any D1 read is random by that standard then.

After the FN died, I could infer strongman/no doc, and went to GL.

GL and I then disagreed on who to target next

[Titus]

Presume so, never checked

If you did not know that you visited people, what was this?

There's three people who claim lost gold. I'm wondering if the lost gold comes from visiting the same target.

It comes presuming that I've been seen and interacted with people unless otherwise indicated. I don't think to b ask if I can be seen or targeted. I just suppose it to be true.

[Titus]

I can be seen and targeted.

[Titus]

*shrug* My read on Lukewarm has plummeted. It feels more like he's looking to discredit me to promote a CoF elimination or save Enchant or save Pav (this one is unlikely since I am mostly alone in my SR there). Discrediting me moves the group in those directions.

[Titus]

Yo can we go faster i don't want to put futher replacements in this.

My error only not wasting shots before. Have fun.

If you're town, this does nothing. I doubt you are but please talk.

[Titus]

VLA 12/2 to 12/9

[Titus]

Same. I'm active for this game and I am vla.

[Titus]

While I disagree with this CoF elimination, it's likely the best one for the gamestate. We netted one night of survival. Expecting three nights of no night kills without guessing is farcial so there's no reason not to.

[Titus]

I might but I'm low priority.

[Titus]

The mod forgot to process my purchase due to mod error. I can't buy a potion.

VOTE: CoF

[Titus]

L minus 1