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I… just don’t have any more thoughts. The part where you talk about Andrea seemed designed to make it seem like you’re making discussion while pocketing Andres.
T3 townreads Andres
In post 836, Dorsey wrote:I sheep Wiki. You talk too much to be scum. VOTE: Iconeum
Dorsey townreads Wiki
In post 851, Wiki wrote:I dont know what gamma sees good in Salsa.
I dont care.
Scums: Ico, Dwlee, Datisi, Salsa.
Go fast hammer smb and fast night.
is playing their town meta but don't know their scum meta, so null.
Three
is also null for me.
Wiki
doesn’t exist for me.
Dorsey
needs more pressure and I'm town
Salsa nullreads Three. Salsa nullreads geraintm.
In post 1216, Andresvmb wrote:@Wiki we have a philosophical disagreement around what you’re perceiving on Ico but I definitely TR the fact that you’re paying attention to this in this way. I just think you need to be less repetitive and frankly, obnoxious.
I have a feeling Scum care about building a worldview that makes sense. I would argue Scum are less likely to express a TR of a slot and then turn around and vote that slot based on vibes they had or little explanation. It sticks out, so people like you will point it out and argue it’s Scummy. But it’s early in the game. Reads aren’t fully formed. It happens that people change their minds quickly in the early part of the game. I would argue your argument doesn’t seem correct in my mind.
Also, I’m not going to get into a massive back and forth over this. That’s my opinion as to why you might be wrong on Ico. But I feel much more uncertain about Ico’s alignment.
In post 1450, Iconeum wrote:I was just reading through Andres ISO and there are more posts that point toward town!andres then I thought. He's got a few particularly sharp ones, that I know town!him is capable of.
If all of andres/datisi/dwlee are town then i've got some high hopes here
Ico townreads Andres
Three does not townread Salsabil Faria
if i have to bin salsa somewhere, it's townlean. I think she's trying to form some kind of townblock/wagon on their scumreads even if it's a hard road. Like she's doing with GE.
I don't see it myself, but alright, it's a read.
Three does not townread Salsabil Faria
What is Three's read on Geraintm?
What is Dorsey's read on Gamma Emerald/Looker?
In post 1465, Andresvmb wrote:Here’s what I’m looking for, and why I expressed the view that I did of Dorsey. In a game with 4 Scum, I would be urging my team to actually consolidate onto a Town and really avoid bussing this early. There’s no need, the Town are uncoordinated early, and this game has {geraintm, Dorsey, Salsa}. geraintm, as can be already seen, doesn’t actively solve D1. Dorsey isn’t really trying to make themselves heard and seems lost. And Salsa can quite obviously antagonize others, and has a history of self-voting. Assume for a minute 2 of those names are Town. With A50 also trying their best not to actively participate (even though they very much can), and Wiki polluting the thread with repetitive arguments, I would argue the gamestate is giving Scum a massive incentive to coordinate a mis-execution and try and convince the Town players that can more easily be manipulated of their righteous push.
And look at who happen to be the two leading wagons right now. If I had to guess, they’re both Town.
No offense to them (geraintm, Dorsey), but it's really easy to see weaker players being pushed around, especially when you look at the Activity Overview. Seeing how content the wagon is is kind of glaring.
Extremely subjective IMO. Is there some standard, non-evolving method of reading a particular player that can be publicized and referenced?
In post 1487, Dwlee99 wrote:Anyway I think you're wrong assuming that salsa/Dorsey/Gera are all town. Could I be wrong on my poe list? I mean, maybe, but also, no.
Can you reference any posts? I'm trying to catch up. What make you think your reasoning is superior to Andres's?
In post 1488, Dwlee99 wrote:As in, I'd have to be more wrong than I think I am
In post 1490, Datisi wrote:starting a whole new wagon that has like one person who's so far in support of it feels way out there, unless like all of the current yeet candidates are his buddies and he's determined to singlehandedly turn the wagons over, and i'm generally skeptical of all leading wagons being scum (especially in a 4v9)
all wagons being town and scum!andres doing some 9000 iq play where he "tries" to turn it over to someone else is maybe possible, but feels like taking the path of a lot of resistance for no reason
Why does this make you feel positively about Andres, but negatively about Dorsey?
I get that you're saying you think Andres is town because of it, but I'm asking why. I also read your vote of Dorsey, which is why I'm trying to see what the difference is. One doesn't vote a leading wagon and you vote them (Dorsey), the other doesn't and you commend them (Andres). What's the difference that I'm overlooking?
In post 1459, Selynee wrote:Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context.
i'm pretty sure i spoke about this already? like, i know gera is absolutely not going to do shit on day one. and he's going to get shit for it, and he knows it too. the way i generally read him is that if what he's saying makes my eyes roll, he's town. that... didn't, it just made it seem like he found *Something* he can latch onto for day 1 to make sure that townies don't latch onto him as "not solving, not doing anything" etc.
In post 1499, Dwlee99 wrote:I mean I just apply my mental tell book to people. And by tell book I mean there's a black box in my brain. But some people that black box has more trouble reading than others, in my experience.
My reasoning is better cause Andres makes too many assumptions about the game state.
So it's nothing that anybody else can see to check for inconsistencies - we just have to trust you pretty much? And what are Andres's assumptions? Did he post them somewhere?
In post 1503, Dwlee99 wrote:I give reasons, don't worry, Looker. Sometimes. Anyway, andres' assumptions are about how scum would be playing (no bussing I think?) and some other gamestatey things I don't agree with. The conclusion of those assumptions is that dorsey/gera/salsa are all town. I don't agree with the assumptions or the conclusions
In post 1459, Selynee wrote:Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context.
i'm pretty sure i spoke about this already? like, i know gera is absolutely not going to do shit on day one. and he's going to get shit for it, and he knows it too. the way i generally read him is that if what he's saying makes my eyes roll, he's town. that... didn't, it just made it seem like he found *Something* he can latch onto for day 1 to make sure that townies don't latch onto him as "not solving, not doing anything" etc.
That's a pretty vague litmus test
i mean, my read on gera is 2/2 so far and also not like i have much to work with on day 1
do you have a different opinion on him?
Not so much challenging your opinion, but more so acknowledging how difficult it would be to delineate between your town approach and your scum approach since it seems to be based on vibes you can change at any moment depending on what mood you're in (aka rolling your eyes).
In post 1496, Looker wrote:I get that you're saying you think Andres is town because of it, but I'm asking why. I also read your vote of Dorsey, which is why I'm trying to see what the difference is. One doesn't vote a leading wagon and you vote them (Dorsey), the other doesn't and you commend them (Andres). What's the difference that I'm overlooking?
i... explained why? i think scum!andres has no motivation to say "all these leading wagons are town, let's fucking build a new one!" if he can just bullshit something about voting one of the leading wagons - scum is generally lazy.
i'm not voting dorsey for "not voting the leading wagon". i'm voting them because their newer posts seem to be designed to give an appearance of some sorta effort and scumhunting, but they just feel completely made up and arbitrary, and they need to be forced to explain themselves. it has nothing to do with who they're voting. (well, almost nothing - i have no clue why they're voting a50, but you get it.)
In post 487, Dorsey wrote:No, I just don't know any other way to get into the game.
In post 836, Dorsey wrote:I sheep Wiki. You talk too much to be scum. VOTE: Iconeum
Self-explanatory
In post 1081, Dorsey wrote:I don't really get the hostility. I thought this was supposed to be fun.
VOTE: Andresvmb
In post 1098, Dorsey wrote:Because I just figured one of Andres, Ico, or T3. Andres 0 votes on vanity wagon, T3 0 votes on leading wagon 1, Ico 0 votes on leading wagon 2
In post 1320, Dorsey wrote:Having more votecounts would make it easier to follow the bandwagoners. I feel there are several wagons that build up rapidly out of nowhere.
Edit: I voted andres because I could. There's nothing saying he's town and nobody knows anything about the other players so I don't see the issue with voting and gauging reactions. I feel it would be different if I was putting him in a vulnerable position, like close to elimination or something. Do you disagree or something?
In post 1317, Dorsey wrote:I feel there's scum in each group [Andres/Iconeum/T3], [Three/Salsabil/Dwlee], and [Datisi/Almost50]. I'm just curious as to why some ISO's (e.g, Almost50) are overlooked. It's just a game of spam and subjective rhetoric disguised as logic, which can still be fun, but I don't see the need to church it up. The fact that anyone can be "locktown" is funny.
VOTE: Almost50
Feels Almost50 is overlooked, so votes.
In post 1322, Dorsey wrote:And I felt that, if everybody's getting wagoned, why not those players? Why skip over people? It just seemed very manipulative, as if mafia are pushing wagons but not on their own people, which would make sense.
In post 1323, Dorsey wrote:Like monkey's last posts were videos, but whatever, idrc that much.
In post 1502, Datisi wrote:i'm not voting dorsey for "not voting the leading wagon". i'm voting them because their newer posts seem to be designed to give an appearance of some sorta effort and scumhunting, but they just feel completely made up and arbitrary, and they need to be forced to explain themselves. it has nothing to do with who they're voting. (well, almost nothing - i have no clue why they're voting a50, but you get it.)
For clarification: Are you voting because you disagree with Dorsey or are you voting because you don't understand Dorsey?
How condescending. Clearly I wouldn't waste my time. Feel free to come back later if you have better things to do. I'll continue playing as I see fit. Thank you.
This entire game is about asking meaningless questions to random strangers and forming half-assed opinions. I've also JUST ENTERED IT, lol, why so uptight?
Likewise. I feel your list is ad hoc. How is A50, who has posted nothing but jokes and videos, contributing more than geraintm, who has referenced game-specific cases and spoke to meta? And that's if I'm working under the assumption that all lurkers are scum.
In post 1331, Datisi wrote:in the meantime, i'm invoking the luca blight tell of "seeming to give zero shits is probably town" but "giving the appearance of giving some shits while not actually doing anything, that's scummy" (yes i know it was wrong the last time i used it, but dorsey's votes are like legit nonsense and they need proper explanation)
VOTE: dorsey
So, for you, A50's self-vote was the first portion of the above luca blight tell?
In post 1526, Datisi wrote:quick skim through his iso, i think i'm right - he called the cases on himself bad, and offered self-meta on why he's always useless on day 1. that's not what i count contributing.
^RE:geraintm
Spoiler: ISO Notes, RE:A50
In post 595, Almost50 wrote:I am totally checked out from this game. I should probably try to read and/or do something, but I can't bring myself to effort today (as in D1)
In post 1516, Datisi wrote:dorsey has given us nothing, what can i even disagree with there?
If you could rank the players in order of contribution, how would the list go?
vaguely from memory - wiki andres dwlee sel salsa ico three t3 a50 gera dorsey looker
4 scum out of 13. Potentially 2 dead town a day. 13>11>9>7 (3 miselims/3 NKs needed for scum majority). Going from Datisi's list, eradicate (3) Looker, Dorsey, Geraintm. I can see A50 being scum if Datisi is scum. Or T3 for safe measure. Only Three if there was an incentive to bus earlier on - I've only really skimmed the votecounts.
In post 1331, Datisi wrote:dorsey's votes are like legit nonsense and they need proper explanation
In post 1535, Datisi wrote:i vote people often, it helps me sort. if you wanna actually make a case on what it says about my alignment, you're free to do so.
No more screen time today, want to give rest to my eyes.
UNVOTE: Dorsey
VOTE: GE
I'm tempted to vote this to even up the wagons and see who goes where (because reaction-test voting is legitimately a way to sort), but I'm still looking through.
In post 1547, Andresvmb wrote:@Looker you think T3 is possibly Scum. Can you join the wagon?
I want to apply pressure somewhere I actually SR and see what shakes out.
if there are multiple people telling you that your read of gera is nonsense and that he literally always acts like this as town too, can you stop with your bullshit spam pushing what is essentially a policy and at least pretend to be a team player? because if anyone here is getting policied, it's gonna be you.
I disagree - I'm not policy voting Wiki. I like that he's passionate about his ideas, and I don't see how he's any different than the rest of you. It's super easy to scroll past his posts if you don't want them.
In post 1562, Dorsey wrote:Every time I open my mouth I get attacked anyway.
- lurks for the majority of the game
- in the rare times they post, they're throwing out nonsense reads
- ignoring any and all questions to actually explain what they're thinking
- surprised they're getting shit???
A50
Everyone
Inaccurate exaggeration - questions were answered, but not to your perceivable liking. I feel you didn't press for info, kind of how you did with Three (see 1650 below), because you wanted to use the inexperience to pull a miselim
Datisi- He made a lot of bad faith arguments with me and was more preoccupied with winning the argument rather than actually trying to solve my alignment. His interactions with Looker were also highly suspect, he seemed frazzled over some slight grilling and I just got bad vibes from it.
In post 1581, T3 wrote:looker has waaaaaay higher wim than i remember scum him having
mind elaborating? it feels to me like his contribution so far is just going with the flow and taking weak potshots, while the only game i've seen looker in (that granted, was almost two years ago) they were town and had like, takes.
i'd go check if i am right on them playing like that in that past game, but for now i don't feel like going back to the shitfest that that game was
How is challenging the two leading wagons going with the flow? How is questioning yourself and Dwlee99, both of whom have had limited heat, going with the flow? Re:"weak potshots" - with what specifically do you disagree? If I knew I could use a reference to justify myself, I'd do it - I don't think you believe you can find anything in that game and that you're just bluffing like you did with asking Andres about his T3 wagon invite.
In post 419, Datisi wrote:
t3 is being weird and opportunistic-y and i'm still trying to figure out how to read him
@Datisi can you update this take? This is the last time you expressed a read on T3. And you’ve only asked a single question there after that as far as I can tell.
no
the only two times i read t3 correctly was when he made a meta case that involved reading three games, and when i had solved literally every other slot in the game and he was (quite literally) poe.
i think the better way to read him is with flips and via associates, because i've blundered his alignment way too hard too many times to be able to make any solid call on d1.
likewise, i don't townread him, so if you wanna start a push there, by all means i won't stand in your way, it might be useful info later after all. but i'm far from convined.
and to answer looker's shade i saw, no, i wasn't planning on voting t3 when i made that post
.
In post 1625, Datisi wrote:i'm vibing with dwlee and that slightly scares me
wiki makes me regret being the one to get "you cannot use scripts to ignore another person in the game" to become a site rule
see y'all later
Vibing how? Is this one of your mood-based assessments that I asked about earlier?
In post 1459, Selynee wrote:Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context.
i'm pretty sure i spoke about this already? like, i know gera is absolutely not going to do shit on day one. and he's going to get shit for it, and he knows it too. the way i generally read him is that if what he's saying makes my eyes roll, he's town. that... didn't, it just made it seem like he found *Something* he can latch onto for day 1 to make sure that townies don't latch onto him as "not solving, not doing anything" etc.
That's a pretty vague litmus test
i mean, my read on gera is 2/2 so far and also not like i have much to work with on day 1
do you have a different opinion on him?
Not so much challenging your opinion, but more so acknowledging how difficult it would be to delineate between your town approach and your scum approach since it seems to be based on vibes you can change at any moment depending on what mood you're in (aka rolling your eyes).
In post 1511, T3 wrote:you don't even pause to consider that datisi is whiteknighting? (ftr i don't think datisi is whiteknighting but yeah)
scum!tisi is very, very much capable of getting me misyeeted
scum only need a limited number of misyeets
scum!tisi could have EASILY kept up pressure on me early game and force some mistakes out of me (which i make a ton of, as either allignment), and just punish me.
it makes no sense for scum!tisi to try and keep me alive here, other then *wanting* to play this way which admittedly is actually possible but just unlikely imo
This is some serious friend worship - I question whether it's blinding you. Tell me more about how Datisi is God and can master everything and everyone
In post 1632, Iconeum wrote:i wanna hop on T3 for my previous post on him, but that wagon just looks gross tbf
do you find anything else about the wagon gross other than dorsey?
Such strong language. Can you more specifically articulate how you feel about it? As in, do you feel the players on it are scum? Do you disagree with their takes? Which ones? This is a text-based game.
In post 1637, Iconeum wrote:@Andres do you honestly like the sheeple you have with you?
Doesn't dorsey look like a juicy wagon to you?
I'd be down running up Looker as an alternative, what do you think about that?
In post 1640, Datisi wrote:it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well
what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>
datisi/andres/wiki/dwlee town
gera/sely/three/salsa/a50 exist. Wiki's pressure on gera make me wanna defend gera, but he's null. The others i could probably make a case for either allignment if i wanted to.
T3 i really don't like how he's been poking me without really engaging me, but that's like the full extent of suspicion i have there
i really don't like lookers entry
and i didn't like GE before
Dorsey is so bleh and their T3 vote is very opportunistic i feel - now drawing the 'boohoo look at me everyone's mad at me' card is really unimpressive
i'd love a good wagon on either dorsey or looker here
Is it because I questioned your friend?
In post 1647, Datisi wrote:on one hand i wanna try out a looker wagon to See What Happens
on the other, i think it's
plainly obvious
dorsey is not gonna be doing shit this game, and we can't have an unsortable slot for long because we have a very limited amount of misyeets, so bringing them to y-1 to force them to talk sounds like a very +town thing regardless of their alignment
decisions, decisions
Plainly obvious? Would it make it better if she said she wasn't reading the game or didn't care?
Spoiler: Plainly obvious
In post 1651, Almost50 wrote:Announcement: I literally stopped reading anything in this game. I intend to reread the whole day at night in light of today's flip. If Scum want to really frustrate me they should be shooting me tonight. I will probably blacklist the whole Scum team if it happens though.
In post 1675, Dorsey wrote:And even then, the condescension. Like what are you people like IRL? This is a game, why are you being snarky and calling people idiots? What's the point?
This is a place where a powerless person can feel power, so don't take it personal. Think of it as Call of Duty, Fortnite, or GTA - it has nothing to do with you or your ideas; you're just easy to run over.
In post 1728, Datisi wrote:vague responses to looker because i am way too tired for a proper wall response:
- wiki's different from the rest of us in that he's very loudly wrong and refuses to listen to anyone but himself
- how the hell am i supposed to press them for info if they're literally not posting? like, do you think that if i repost the question every two hours, it'll make them post?
- mostly going off of your interaction with me - it seemed like you were way more interested in making me look bad for bs contradictions and cheap potshots than actually solving me. i don't think you once said how something is townie or scummy about me, you just kept shading me. if you're actually interested in this and won't just turn it into a nonsense comeback, i can go in depth tomorrow when it's not an hour past my bedtime.
- i'm vibing, their posts make me feel like they're town despite not having much Concrete there, like do you know what a vibe is? and yes i solve a lot on gut
- for the record, there is one of the cheap potshots i am talking about
- i was just repeating ico's words, and also i have given out a read on every person on that wagon, so
- dorsey isn't a50, i know a50 can be a troll as town so yeeting him would be a ~random yeet
- again this also feels like bad faith trying to point out a """contradiction"""
"Nonsense" is dismissive
Which contradictions do you feel made you look bad?
Do you feel there's a difference between "shading" and sorting?
Do you feel you're able to navigate bias regarding Iconeum's atypically high regard for you
"Andres is town" 1502; "Sel is townier" 1621; "Dorsey is gross" 1640
You have a special relationship with A50. Understood.
How would you propose finding scum if not by finding patterns and inconsistencies? Would you prefer "vibes"?
I actually think you don't care to find scum because you are scum, and thus don't care to be obligated to consistency. I think that's why you're trying to make things so inconsistent and mood-based.
p-edit: Does increased profanity mean that Datisi is thinking harder?
p-p-edit: Yes. Help me find mafia, lol.
Just for shits and giggles, I looked up the one game I played with Datisi. I feel the difference in our playstyles is evident. O yea, and he had his shadow with him in that game, too
I don't remember any issues with his modding, though - he's either modded or back-up modded a couple of games I played around in. Never force replaced me (for better or for worse )
is for biased reason? Actually I'm getting the feeling that you two have history and I'm townreading him (and scumreading your predecessor), so if I should consider your case or not... that's why.
See above for 'history'. And biased in what way? Do you feel I personally dislike Datisi? Because that's not true - I've never met him. Do you feel there are posts of mine with which you disagree? I think that would help the conversation - I know it would help me interact with you.
In post 1751, Looker wrote:Just for shits and giggles, I looked up the one game I played with Datisi. I feel the difference in our playstyles is evident. O yea, and he had his shadow with him in that game, too
I don't remember any issues with his modding, though - he's either modded or back-up modded a couple of games I played around in. Never force replaced me (for better or for worse )
In post 1640, Datisi wrote:it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well
what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>
datisi/andres/wiki/dwlee town
gera/sely/three/salsa/a50 exist. Wiki's pressure on gera make me wanna defend gera, but he's null. The others i could probably make a case for either allignment if i wanted to.
T3 i really don't like how he's been poking me without really engaging me, but that's like the full extent of suspicion i have there
i really don't like lookers entry
and i didn't like GE before
Dorsey is so bleh and their T3 vote is very opportunistic i feel - now drawing the 'boohoo look at me everyone's mad at me' card is really unimpressive
i'd love a good wagon on either dorsey or looker here
Is it because I questioned your friend?
?
In post 1755, Datisi wrote:wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?
i think it would
(:
VOTE: three
scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads
will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned
Which post was this explanation?
In post 1776, Datisi wrote:wiki, can you stop pretending like you're a fucking moron who learned about the game of mafia yesterday
you were giving me shit earlier for "not having any progression on you and never considering you scum" (despite that being untrue!) and now you're pretending like i just randomly called dorsey scum after calling them town with no reasoning or explanation
get your head out of your own fucking ass because you're showing time and time again you don't know shit about this game
In post 1780, Datisi wrote:i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue
like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?
What's the difference between heated and flail? Also, which good part of the game is not playing, as in player names?
In post 595, Almost50 wrote:I am totally checked out from this game. I should probably try to read and/or do something, but I can't bring myself to effort today (as in D1)
is actually based on meta but not only meta. The way he goes with
Wiki
&
Three
, it clearly takes lots of attention which no scum want in D1 in general basis. Though I don’t know his scum meta but as an experienced player, do you think scum!
Datisi
is this much sloppy? Plus, his sorting style is kind of like that, he will keep asking the same question until his satisfaction (which is annoying tbh ). But I'll look onto your case later, busy rn (this game is giving me headache also).
Do I think Datisi is this sloppy? I think that would require me to think that this current game is sloppy, which I don't. As for Datisi, I don't think he's a sloppy player - I'm sure every one of his moves is perfectly logical to him. "Sloppy" is subjective and kind of negative.
Personal note: We have 1v1s with Almost50 vs Wiki, and Three vs Datisi
In post 1728, Datisi wrote:vague responses to looker because i am way too tired for a proper wall response:
- wiki's different from the rest of us in that he's very loudly wrong and refuses to listen to anyone but himself
- how the hell am i supposed to press them for info if they're literally not posting? like, do you think that if i repost the question every two hours, it'll make them post?
- mostly going off of your interaction with me - it seemed like you were way more interested in making me look bad for bs contradictions and cheap potshots than actually solving me. i don't think you once said how something is townie or scummy about me, you just kept shading me. if you're actually interested in this and won't just turn it into a nonsense comeback, i can go in depth tomorrow when it's not an hour past my bedtime.
- i'm vibing, their posts make me feel like they're town despite not having much Concrete there, like do you know what a vibe is? and yes i solve a lot on gut
- for the record, there is one of the cheap potshots i am talking about
- i was just repeating ico's words, and also i have given out a read on every person on that wagon, so
- dorsey isn't a50, i know a50 can be a troll as town so yeeting him would be a ~random yeet
- again this also feels like bad faith trying to point out a """contradiction"""
"Nonsense" is dismissive
Which contradictions do you feel made you look bad?
Do you feel there's a difference between "shading" and sorting?
Do you feel you're able to navigate bias regarding Iconeum's atypically high regard for you
"Andres is town" 1502; "Sel is townier" 1621; "Dorsey is gross" 1640
You have a special relationship with A50. Understood.
How would you propose finding scum if not by finding patterns and inconsistencies? Would you prefer "vibes"?
I actually think you don't care to find scum because you are scum, and thus don't care to be obligated to consistency. I think that's why you're trying to make things so inconsistent and mood-based.
p-edit: Does increased profanity mean that Datisi is thinking harder?
p-p-edit: Yes. Help me find mafia, lol.
"contradictions" and cheap potshots that i hate, other than the ones already pointed out above:
- 1496 is misrepping my reasoning for voting dorsey and making a "contradiction" out of it (though this one *can* be forgiven if you're newly in the game, etc)
- 1513 is once again doing that, and it's asking a very leading question that makes me look bad no matter how i answer
- 1533 was also showing my vote in the worst light possible
- most of the rest of the convo around pages 61-62 felt like it was made in the sort of condescending looking-for-a-gotcha tone, like asking me about my gut-based reads or asking which players do i think contributed the most
- yes, sorting is using the things you're hearing and making ai conclusions out of it. shading is responding in a way that's *clearly* meant to imply you think the person is scummy, but not outright saying it nor providing any concrete reasoning, just painting it in a bad light and lettign the audience draw their own conclusions, so to speak
- i'd say so, scum!iconeum hasn't ever approached me like this, and this game is far more effort from him than i'd expect if he randed scum 5th game in a row. i'll admit i'm not willing to bet the game on it yet, but so far he reads town to me.
- the townread on andres was literally explained in the post you linked (other than the meta/gut of him feeling like he usually does, but i know you don't care about that), dorsey i'd also explained and you shot it down as me wagoning the lowest content slot, sel has just felt... solvey? i can go over her slot later, don't feel too much like doing it right this moment bc she's not under fire and holy shit do i have things to respond to in the thread
- yes, call that special relationship "knowing who a50 is".
- again this feels like a bad faith leading question. obviously patterns and inconsistencies are a way of finding scum. but it's also pretty known that some inconsistencies that appear scummy do come from town, because town makes mistakes too. especially if they're as forced as you're making mine out to be >_>
- i've been a proponent of gutreads ever since i joined this site, if i have to be digging quotes where i say that, i'm gonna lose it
fuck me the pedits
1496 is me asking you a question. I asked what the difference was between Dorsey and Andres.
Spoiler: 1496
In post 1496, Looker wrote:I get that you're saying you think Andres is town because of it, but I'm asking why. I also read your vote of Dorsey, which is why I'm trying to see what the difference is. One doesn't vote a leading wagon and you vote them (Dorsey), the other doesn't and you commend them (Andres). What's the difference that I'm overlooking?
1513 was also me asking you a question - I was asking you why you were voting for Dorsey because your previous post (1502) was unclear. You said they needed to explain themselves and said you weren't voting them because of their voting but that you WERE voting them because of their voting. I was trying to get you to explain yourself...through talking to you.
In post 1502, Datisi wrote:i'm not voting dorsey for "not voting the leading wagon". i'm voting them because their newer posts seem to be designed to give an appearance of some sorta effort and scumhunting, but they just feel completely made up and arbitrary, and they need to be forced to explain themselves. it has nothing to do with who they're voting. (well, almost nothing - i have no clue why they're voting a50, but you get it.)
For clarification: Are you voting because you disagree with Dorsey or are you voting because you don't understand Dorsey?
Are you saying that you would've drawn a different conclusion from that information? Because, when I presented it to you in conversation, all you said was "okay" and stopped talking.
Spoiler: 1533
In post 1533, Looker wrote:It's just that I'm skimming through and all of the bigger wagons (Wiki, Selynee, geraintm,
Almost50
, Dorsey) have had you on them. You weren't on A50's, though.
Re:condescension - No; that's you. You've name-called, swore, and insulted people - you're the condescending one. I've only asked you questions.
Re:Selynee - Can you elaborate on what you mean by "solvey"? Which posts of hers has made you see her as town?
How are you determining which inconsistencies that appear scummy are coming from town and which are coming from scum? I ask because it came off as if you felt I was going about this all wrong.
In post 1894, Dorsey wrote:Wow, an explosion of posts and wagon shifts to protect Datisi. That was quick. VOTE: Datisi
I jump off A50 and now all of a sudden he's scum. Datisi is the manipulator. He's also the one calling people "fucking morons" and "purposefully ignorant".
this is going into conspiracy theory level territory
Are you saying that you would've drawn a different conclusion from that information? Because, when I presented it to you in conversation, all you said was "okay" and stopped talking.
Spoiler: 1533
In post 1533, Looker wrote:It's just that I'm skimming through and all of the bigger wagons (Wiki, Selynee, geraintm,
Almost50
, Dorsey) have had you on them. You weren't on A50's, though.
here's the bad faith tone again... i'm saying that going "wow, you were on a lot of wagons, therefore you're scum" is an extremely Bad And Simplistic take that's more likely to come from scum than someone who's actually solving the game. i'm not claiming i would've townread myself because of it.
? Looking at the post, it doesn't look like I was saying that at all. It looks like I was asking you why you wagoned that way and why you were so dismissive of the speculation, especially if "patterns and inconsistencies are a way of finding scum".
In post 2036, Andresvmb wrote:I would like to see some more meaningful votes from {DW, Looker, geraintm, A50}, and to a lesser extent Salsa. Wiki and DW are definitely not getting executed today, and Looker and DW are just straight up not voting with 2 days to go.
In post 1640, Datisi wrote:it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well
what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>
datisi/andres/wiki/dwlee town
gera/sely/three/salsa/a50 exist. Wiki's pressure on gera make me wanna defend gera, but he's null. The others i could probably make a case for either allignment if i wanted to.
T3 i really don't like how he's been poking me without really engaging me, but that's like the full extent of suspicion i have there
i really don't like lookers entry
and i didn't like GE before
Dorsey is so bleh and their T3 vote is very opportunistic i feel - now drawing the 'boohoo look at me everyone's mad at me' card is really unimpressive
i'd love a good wagon on either dorsey or looker here
is actually based on meta but not only meta. The way he goes with
Wiki
&
Three
, it clearly takes lots of attention which no scum want in D1 in general basis. Though I don’t know his scum meta but as an experienced player, do you think scum!
Datisi
is this much sloppy? Plus, his sorting style is kind of like that, he will keep asking the same question until his satisfaction (which is annoying tbh ).
But I'll look onto your case later, busy rn (this game is giving me headache also).
Did you draw any conclusions from this action that you can share with the thread?
In post 1776, Datisi wrote:wiki, can you stop pretending like you're a fucking moron who learned about the game of mafia yesterday
you were giving me shit earlier for "not having any progression on you and never considering you scum" (despite that being untrue!) and now you're pretending like i just randomly called dorsey scum after calling them town with no reasoning or explanation
get your head out of your own fucking ass because you're showing time and time again you don't know shit about this game
In post 1780, Datisi wrote:i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue
like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?
What's the difference between heated and flail?
In your opinion? Or do you feel it can even be determined?
In post 1894, Dorsey wrote:Wow, an explosion of posts and wagon shifts to protect Datisi. That was quick. VOTE: Datisi
I jump off A50 and now all of a sudden he's scum. Datisi is the manipulator. He's also the one calling people "fucking morons" and "purposefully ignorant".
this is going into conspiracy theory level territory
Can you expand on this?
he's saying that datisi is scum who has everyone pocketed which is kinda impossible
ish
In post 1640, Datisi wrote:it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well
what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>
datisi/andres/wiki/dwlee town
gera/sely/three/salsa/a50 exist. Wiki's pressure on gera make me wanna defend gera, but he's null. The others i could probably make a case for either allignment if i wanted to.
T3 i really don't like how he's been poking me without really engaging me, but that's like the full extent of suspicion i have there
i really don't like lookers entry
and i didn't like GE before
Dorsey is so bleh and their T3 vote is very opportunistic i feel - now drawing the 'boohoo look at me everyone's mad at me' card is really unimpressive
i'd love a good wagon on either dorsey or looker here
In post 2141, Looker wrote:I did. I thought you were dodging my questions.
Yes; despite having a week less than everyone else, I do have opinions of the players.
Are you saying that condescension is your turn-off? Are you saying a lack of reads is scummy?
dodging questions and 'riding prodging range until deadline' are 2 completely different things and you know that
i'm saying that the volume you posted and corresponding lack of reads/conclusions/opinions/content is scummy yeah
the way you are treating for example my slot just triggers me a bit - whatever
In post 2154, Three wrote:I don't know what E-x I'm at but whatever, I'm about to go to bed and somebody might quick hammer before I wake up. I'm VT. Now stop throwing and vote actual scum. If you think scum plays the way I have i.e. not giving a shit about how I'm perceived and pressuring commonly town read players, you might want to reconsider what you think scumminess actually looks like.
I want to vote within my scum reads + Wiki. Geraintm and T3 are useless flips since they have low content and low progression respectively. If either are scum then cool, but I don't fucking know that, and you're kidding yourself if you think either of them have made themselves readable enough to figure that out today.
there's like 3 or whatever votes on you...
I just counted, I think I'm at E-2 and my slot is being considered by other players as well. There is a good chance I'm put at E-1 or accidentally quick hammered before I even wake up at the rate we're going, especially since we never managed to get a real wagon going all of Day 1.
i don't think there's been a single wagon at more then 3 votes for the entire day so yeah
Are you saying that you would've drawn a different conclusion from that information? Because, when I presented it to you in conversation, all you said was "okay" and stopped talking. 1533
here's the bad faith tone again... i'm saying that going "wow, you were on a lot of wagons, therefore you're scum" is an extremely Bad And Simplistic take that's more likely to come from scum than someone who's actually solving the game. i'm not claiming i would've townread myself because of it.
? Looking at the post, it doesn't look like I was saying that at all. It looks like I was asking you why you wagoned that way and why you were so dismissive of the speculation, especially if "patterns and inconsistencies are a way of finding scum".
really? the "wow, you were on almost every leading wagon so far" isn't supposed to be carrying any negative connotations?
Is your assertion that I am...
Accusing you of something you are doing?
Accusing you of something you are not doing?
If you...
are
NOT
doing it: Can't you just show that you're not doing it?
ARE
doing it: Can't you show that what you're doing benefits town if you're town?
I don't understand the "negative connotations" and "bad faith" arguments if what I'm referring to is factual.
is actually based on meta but not only meta. The way he goes with
Wiki
&
Three
, it clearly takes lots of attention which no scum want in D1 in general basis. Though I don’t know his scum meta but as an experienced player, do you think scum!
Datisi
is this much sloppy? Plus, his sorting style is kind of like that, he will keep asking the same question until his satisfaction (which is annoying tbh ).
But I'll look onto your case later, busy rn (this game is giving me headache also).
Did you draw any conclusions from this action that you can share with the thread?
Actually I didn’t do anything about it, not interested anymore now.
In post 1776, Datisi wrote:wiki, can you stop pretending like you're a fucking moron who learned about the game of mafia yesterday
you were giving me shit earlier for "not having any progression on you and never considering you scum" (despite that being untrue!) and now you're pretending like i just randomly called dorsey scum after calling them town with no reasoning or explanation
get your head out of your own fucking ass because you're showing time and time again you don't know shit about this game
In post 1780, Datisi wrote:i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue
like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?
What's the difference between heated and flail?
In your opinion? Or do you feel it can even be determined?
i don't know, and why is this relevant?
I was trying to see if there was a way to differentiate between being upset because you hate a player versus being frustrated as caught scum.
So this was fun, but I think I might be done for a while, lol. I feel it's getting kind of repetitive.
In post 2257, Datisi wrote:2041really? the "wow, you were on almost every leading wagon so far" isn't supposed to be carrying any negative connotations?
Is your assertion that I am...
Accusing you of something you are doing?
Accusing you of something you are not doing?
If you...
are
NOT
doing it: Can't you just show that you're not doing it?
ARE
doing it: Can't you show that what you're doing benefits town if you're town?
I don't understand the "negative connotations" and "bad faith" arguments if what I'm referring to is factual.
yes, i was obviously on those wagons. framing it the way you did, it's showing off the fact i was on the wagons and it's leaving it open for others to draw the most simplistic conclusion from it, that being on a lot of wagons bad because trying to score misyeet. it's not looking at the possibility of me voting those players because i wanted to pressure or read them, it's just stating facts without context hoping i get scumread for them.
I didn't frame it, I questioned it, but the more you misrepresent this questioning as accusation, the more I sense you feel guilty about your actions. Instead of saying "I did x, y, and z for town", you're going "Why do you keep bringing up I did x, y, and z?", even after you said the way to find scum is to examine for inconsistencies within x's, y's, and z's - you contradict yourself.
In post 2321, Wiki wrote:Looker,
please give any thoughts about players before the night. I mean now
In post 2328, Three wrote:I'm never going to understand this site meta. Punish townies who scum hunt and protect scum who act polite. Fucking bonkers mind set.
I think they want to be liked more than they want to be right. I feel scum is leaning heavily on your wagon, though.
Actually, I will. It won't necessarily be alignment-indicative, but I think it'll help so people won't think I'm teasing them or personally dislike them.
Three - Is bait, screaming into the void
Andres - Gave up, he's sick
Ico - Is Datisi's lap dog/foot soldier/whatever respectable, dignified term for minion
Salsabil - The expectations I placed on her were too high
Geraintm - Is dead
Wiki - I don't think English is his first language, so it's difficult for me to understand a lot of his posts
Almost50 - Vanished
T3 - Just trying to stay alive, so is relatively quiet
Dorsey - Hates all of you and doesn't want to be here
Seylnee - Has better things to do
Dwlee - Does not care/Is lost
Datisi - Responds to me when I talk to him, even when I point out inconsistencies in his play.
As much as I think Datisi is scum, if he dies, I won't have anyone to talk to.
This gives me pause. Datisi has confessed to being scum with Dorsey and Almost50.
In post 2755, Dorsey wrote:Also, the going theory that you're leaving out (which is a disservice if you're town) is that you're scum and neither one of us is going to be quickhammered because you're scum and you don't have enough votes to hammer me yet.
Edit: You're so much faster with your fingers
How long do we have to wait for one of you to die? Until Ico shows up?
In post 2763, Dorsey wrote:You're terrifying, Datisi. These people were blindly following you this whole time - you were the first one on each wagon. AND YOU WERE SCUM! You should form angry mobs for a living. You'd make a killing, get it?
I got it
Truth be told, I kind of got busy once I saw what types of players we had - I missed all of D2 and haven't read through it yet, but that might not be necessary if the game's about to end soon. Is there anything anyone thinks I should see?
I just LOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEE doing petty fights!
I was like "O! She's not even paying attention lmao!"
And I was bluffing about two town being on the wagon just in case i miscounted and had to defend Datisi or T3 - I thought Almost50 was scum; had no idea it was Iconeum. I'm sorry, Dorsey.
In post 25, ChaosOmega wrote:Bumping this for a rules/policy clarification. The Traitor Mailman wants to send a message "You have received a Friendly Neighbor message. Looker is aligned with Town." With the formatting of the message, this will not go well for him. Should I step in here and tell him how the message is formatted when delivered, or is that mod interference?
In post 2713, Dorsey wrote:You do fake outrage in every game. It's not compelling.
you've never played with me. and it's not fake.
In post 105, Datisi wrote:time to be a piece of shit and fake having a breakdown over this game because my "guilty" turned out to be a fakeclaiming townie huehuehue
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
). But I'll look onto your case later, busy rn (this game is giving me headache also).
