Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over

[Datisi]

i truly cannot believe iconeum rolled scum against me once more, that is heartbreaking

VOTE: iconeum

@mod

(and everyone else), i'm vla every tuesday and thursday bc uni schedule is hell those days

[Datisi]

You was a rather active player on previous Thursday. Previous weeks don't count?
VOTE: Datisi

last week does, it just so happened some of my classes got cancelled.

you already doing meta dives on people?

[Datisi]

i truly cannot believe iconeum rolled scum against me once more, that is heartbreaking

VOTE: iconeum

@mod

(and everyone else), i'm vla every tuesday and thursday bc uni schedule is hell those days

so we finally roll scum together, and ur already bussing me? nice

VOTE: datisi

doesn't mean you have to bus me back!!

[Datisi]

do you think it's plausible that i (or anyone, really) am lying about being vla two days a week?

[Datisi]

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

[Datisi]

do you think it's plausible that i (or anyone, really) am lying about being vla two days a week?

@wiki, it's cool you're responding to random votes, can you respond to actual questions?

[Datisi]

do you think it's plausible that i (or anyone, really) am lying about being vla two days a week?

@wiki, it's cool you're responding to random votes, can you respond to actual questions?

I can.

respond to 14 then?

[Datisi]

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

Bad vines

?

[Datisi]

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

Bad vines

?

Vibes

i get that you meant vibes, but what does that *mean*

bad vibes on me? on ico? why aren't you voting then?

[Datisi]

do you think it's plausible that i (or anyone, really) am lying about being vla two days a week?

@wiki, it's cool you're responding to random votes, can you respond to actual questions?

I can.

respond to 14 then?

No.

VOTE: wiki

[Datisi]

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

excuse me? there's a bunch of people i need to vote here, and i haven't got all day
also i'm distinctly *against* bussing so yeah

ok i get that it's a meme but i'm assuming scum!ico would not enjoy pissing me off after what happened last time, which is why i'm thonking on you unvoting me already

so i'd appreciate at least a semi-serious response kthx

[Datisi]

alright, i like that answer, is this finally a town!ico game?

do you have any opinions on wiki?

[Datisi]

Wiki's meh. I don't know him or his playstyle. Found his responses to you with the 'i can' and the 'no' funny actually :p

not what i was aiming at. my issue with his slot was that he was apparently "checking" whether i was truthful in my vla declaration. that by itself is like, weird, because regardless of my alignment i wouldn't lie about irl circumstances, and i think that's not a controversial take with most people. so i'm assuming the idea was that if i'm lying about vla, i'd be scum, which ??? why would i lie about being vla

and the fact he didn't respond to me questioning that made me think he realized it doesn't quite *make sense* so he decided to ignore me

i did skim a bit and see he's posted more since this so i'm expecting my read will get updated but i wanted to get this out anyway

[Datisi]

Datisi, come fight me. Convince me you’re not Scum and I’m wrong.

let's fucking go mate

oh holy shit i almost missed my bus stop because i was staring at my phone

anyway. the reason why i started townreading ico there was because it didn't strike me as a response scum!ico would make there. you would need some context for this, but - the last two games ico and i played, he was scum and i was town, and in both of those games i got an accurate scumread on him within the first couple pages. the last game (2224 i think) i ended up getting him yeeted day 1, because he reacted way too seriously to my push, got utterly defensive, then tried to placate me and work with me.

his response here, basically going "no lol fuck u i'm not working with you" is (1) town indicative because it appears he doesn't give a shit about my pressure and isn't trying to work with me (granted, this is not unfakeable), but (2) it also showed me that ico isn't falling for my early push. which means that my fake pressure for the sake of reading him is not going to work, and i might as well try to work with him by questioning him about his game thoughts and whatnot.

this is obviously self-meta, but this isn't how scum!me interacts with town!ico. i'd probably either use my "i know how to read ico guys!!" and ez townread him and then kill him, or i'd properly scumread him. like i know this sorta read progression is (1) bound to get attention and (2) ico won't fall for it. but also like this is semi-checkable so if you feel like doing homework then be my guest.

way too many pedits, dinner time for me now, be back later. i have q's for dwlee regarding saying they think i'm town then voting me, but i'd like to properly read everything first.

[Datisi]

Datisi, come fight me. Convince me you’re not Scum and I’m wrong.

i'd probably either use my "i know how to read ico guys!!" and ez townread him and then kill him, or i'd properly scumread him. like i know this sorta read progression is (1) bound to get attention and (2) ico won't fall for it. but also like this is semi-checkable so if you feel like doing homework then be my guest.

Okay but I would argue you’re doing the former to some extent. That was the point of my post. It almost seemed like you were angling for a quick TR there so that they would mostly leave you alone. If you SR Ico incorrectly as Scum, I think they would start casting a light in your direction. I have a feeling you wouldn’t like that very much.

you're missing the "ico won't fall for it", as evidenced by the fact that he also called me out on it. i am aware that a "hey ico you're scummy... nvm you're town can we pls work together now" is *not* going to get him to mostly leave me alone. like, you could argue i'm utterly bad at scum and incapable of faking a semi-believable trajectory and decided to put no effort into it while still deciding to attempt it, but i feel like we both know i'm not, and i could have just said "wow townpings on ico" if i wanted to low-effort townread him.

(and there's also some other stuff i wanna say here but i wanna talk w ico first and it would be a spoiler so remind me later maybe)

like, sure. if i bullshit a scumread on his slot, there's a higher chance he figures out it's bad faith than the average person. but i can just like. not do that either.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi
I believe in Datisi's ability to ping my towndar if town so let's see where this goes

hmm
why did you townread me for in the first place? i see the recent post saying you usually find town!me quickly, and i'm assuming 72 is a townread.

also on page 4, i don't get your iconeum scumread at all

And I don’t know when you’ve seen them roll over as Scum. I have seen something totally different. But I also had them pinned down as Scum so maybe that had something to do with it.

that's the game i was talking about earlier. i made him trip up on page ~3, he was hammered 12 hours later. so, uh. yeah.

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

kinda feel like Wiki is town already

i'mma need some elaboration on this one, chief, because he's surely not feeling like it for me

oh, 135 is a thing - disagreed on it feeling like genuine principles
like wiki's dwlee vote is feeling sorta like his earlier "suspicion" on me, which is shoving plainly nai things as basis for reads
depending on wiki's experience / skill level, this would be either +town or +scum (i feel like it's more likely to be +scum for a newbie and slightly +town for a veteran), but he's an alt and i'm not feeling too confident in his claims about experience so /shrug

and a50's shitposting is reminding me of that last game where he was scum bc i remember he was shitposting a fair bit there too
one townread, can i have one townread pls

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

Bad vines

?

Vibes

i get that you meant vibes, but what does that *mean*

bad vibes on me? on ico? why aren't you voting then?

You
I usually never vote someone just based on vibes.

are you allergic to actually using your words when explaining things?

bottom of page 6, be back soon-ish.

[Datisi]

(also Selynee not groupscum if there's a traitor lmao)

?

also re: wiki's discussion about dwlee changing their mind quickly - i don't think that's really scum indicative

their play so far this game gives me vibes to the white flag game we played in for some reason (where they were town), like i feel like there they started off kinda sporadic and their reads were jumpy and unexplained but they were town and they were Not Bad

also also noted that wiki is ignoring my 167

I agree about Wiki, but how confident are you about Andres?

same question: why is wiki town?

townreading three for his posting on page 9, most specifically 215 just speaks to me as a Vibe and Mood

i mean strictly Datisi is more of a friend in an out of game sense than either you or Gera. I don't really scumread Gera though, and there seemed to be reason to pressure Datisi into hopefully towning it up (I find town!datisi quickly normally) so i wanted to do that. You on the other hand are scummy and if you are town your philosophy on playing mafia sucks

1. So your friend votes you, you consider her not a scum even now... It means that she can be expert of finding your side. And she votes you... Your town friend votes you, she knows you good... Well, what does it mean...

what are you even talking about here? who's "she"?

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi
I believe in Datisi's ability to ping my towndar if town so let's see where this goes

hmm
why did you townread me for in the first place? i see the recent post saying you usually find town!me quickly, and i'm assuming 72 is a townread.

also on page 4, i don't get your iconeum scumread at all

Idk you posted words and they seemed nice

Iconeum scumread was to generate pressure not something deep

i mean that's nice to hear but like
what about them was nice and what changed your mind and etc you know gimme something to work with

will i have to be dragging things out of people the whole game

also that's fair enough but it seemed like you had reasons for scumreading him which i didn't get but like
that was page 4 i'm not sure if it's gonna be of use discussing that from page 4 when i'm tired and it's probably not gonna help in reading either you or ico

[Datisi]

Not Bad

My poe was FIRE that game

I'm glad I felt a spark to play this game (mostly out of game I think but sometimes mental state mixes with a game in a good way and it's one of those days)

yeah, tone/vibewise i'm kinda feeling like you have Life and Willpower to play the game and don't really get the wagon on you

maybe i should check a dwlee scumgame at some point

[Datisi]

also now that i'm caught up, i wanna point out that i hate pretty much everything that selynee has posted so far and would probably have been voting her, had wiki not been as scummy as he's being

[Datisi]

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

uh, neither of them said that? i'm assuming you're talking about 208 and 213 - both of these posts are saying "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", neither is saying that there *has* to be scum between you two?

[Datisi]

Andres pointed something out and I figured voting you wouldn't hurt anyone

but it hurt me

also @wiki - i wasn't necessarily expecting a comment, it was more of a "i will put out this post relating to you and see if you react to it yourself". i'm generally not a fan when people ignore my questions, though i'm aware i can be a bit biased in that area sometimes. though i will let it go because by now i have much bigger problems with your play than "wiki apparently tried to scumread me on the basis that i as scum would lie about real-life vla".

[Datisi]

meh, sure
VOTE: selynee

i do think sel/wiki are unlikely to be s/s (or at least, something pinged me that way back when i was reading, i forgot what by now)

[Datisi]

one townread, can i have one townread pls

are you not townreading me?

if not, why did you give up on the pressure? town!tisi *knows* he can corner and punish scum!ico, so if you don't townread me.... yeah

hiii ico
give me a reason you townread wiki that isn't "he's too wack to be scum"

to answer the quoted
in part because you weren't falling for fake pressure and wouldn't trip up the same way so it's pointless to fakescumread you again
in part because i did think your response was somewhat +town
in part because i wanted to see what you did if i let you off easy

so why did you say you wanna townread me if you were pinged by what andres said earlier?

pedit: this post is already outdated but answer the q anyway pls

[Datisi]

Town:
Daitsi, Ico, Gamma, Three, Andre/A50

i can see the others, but mind explaining the a50 townread? i think so far you only said you like that he talks easy, but uh, my experience with a50 tells me that's not a very good indicator of his alignment. (also, that's not my name >_>)

@three

, when you said there was a good point being raised against sel, whose point were you actually referring to? wiki and i brought up different things.

1) Well, I give Datisi this, some players just feel my questions are "aimless". Obviously, that's not how I see them. Page 6 as basically me trying to get someone's thoughts in a post, easy to understand. That I didn't hurry up and get "reads" from it is part two- like I didn't like really liked their response to my questions (especially Wiki's) but later in-game I start to like him more due to the fact he seems fairly into scumhunting...as much as I disagree with his theories.

i'm no stranger to sometimes having questions others think of aimless, though i still like to call it out because i do think it's slightly +scum. however, my later post against you was because it didn't seem like you were *progressing* in reads and were feeling fairly... reactionary? i guess? in a way that seemed like attempting to fake just enough content to skate by. and like, now you're saying you had thoughts about wiki, but you didn't actually give any of those opinions earlier, you just rebutted 235 without actually providing anything.

[edited later to add: i see you actually *did* say you liked wiki in 168, so my bad there, but i don't think this fully negates my point, as it was just one pretty naked read.]

my eyes are glazing over trying to read Datisi's posts so I'm going to ignore him for now

or how about you actually read the posts that the person you apparently have ~bad vibes~ from is writing?

ok please don't quote full wallposts to respond to just one line, highlight+quote is your friend
also i feel like we have enough history by now that you should be able to say something about why a post of mine caught your eye or something?

Because I saw what looked like a good point and I didn't like your response to it.

please don't tell me the "sel said there's scum between these two people" is the Good Point you were referring to earlier.

[Datisi]

the more i'm reading, the less i'm liking the argument between sel and three. mainly what i mean, sel is still feeling scummy to me, but something feels off about three pushing her there? i dunno. like piggybacking off of wiki's posts (which was frankly Bad) and 297 feels icky to me. like i think it's pretty natural here for someone to go "you're scum sheeping wrong!town onto me so you can hide behind them once i flip", and three is trying to twist that into some sorta scum!indicative thinking of her own possible future elimination.

three, how much mafia experience do you have?

coincidentally, wiki/dwlee is feeling more and more like t/t. dwlee still feels town to me and i don't understand any of the posts there. and if you asked me to point out a post from wiki that i townread, i would not be able to, but somehow the whole vibe around his slot just feels...? like general weird-town.

Wiki are you an NPOM alt?

this made me laugh

also andres where you at

[Datisi]

VOTE: dwlee

this could easily be a scum piling vote. There were a few votes on dwlee for whatever reasons, and this just… does nothing.

if i recall my games with town!gera correctly, he usually like, does, *something* early on. i don't remember him just naked voting then noping the fuck out of games. granted, i know he usually doesn't do a lot, but eh, this still feels uncharacteristic.

also where the fuck are you

[Datisi]

@sel, what's the point of 358? did someone ask your thoughts on dwlee and i missed it?

[Datisi]

351 is a post that exists

[Datisi]

okay, that *makes sense*

now can you acknowledge the second half of that post

[Datisi]

and tbh i don't even remember the part about andres and i haven't bothered checking back so

p sure it was about me "letting you off easy" or something along those lines

like i think you quoted him and said that it pinged you as well, then later on commented a similar thought
but you also said you *wanted* to townread me

so i don't get your thoughts there >_>

[Datisi]

Selynee (5) - Almost50, Three, Datisi, Iconeum T3

UNVOTE:
actually not sure how much of a fan of this wagon i am
a50 is shitposting and not really doing anything, three had that weird post towards sel that i thought was bad-faithy, and t3's hop on is weirdly out of the blue

let's try uhhh
one two seven VOTE: three

[Datisi]

daycop isn't a normal role, pretty sure someone has said that already
VOTE: geraintm

[Datisi]

@andres, what's up? first you wanna fight, now you're lowkey ignoring me, while being parked on me, *and* mostly agreeing with my reads. where's your head at?

[Datisi]

See I correctly read you as Scum in a different game because I felt you were wordy. And I do know you get nervous as Scum. My invitation to fight me was to see how willing you were to confront a direct SR of your slot. I just don’t have an answer yet.

i thought it was because i pushed every single possible misyeet... which you only figured out once we killed you, anyway

though thinking back to that game, i recall picking up a few scumreads along the way and willingly getting into fights there (despite being admittedly nervous), so i'm not sure if that's like, a helpful metric for reading my slot.

[Datisi]

Salsa rolled scum too I think

i also thought her intro was tonally *off*, though at this point i feel like i have way too many scumleans, even for this game

[Datisi]

I wanted to vote Selynee but I don’t know - I am no longer feeling that vote.

i still find her pretty suspicious (it's just i dislike the wagon on her moreso), care to convince me otherwise?

[Datisi]

Datisi how do you have too many scumleans
Name them

sel and three for already explained reasons at some point in the last two pages
a50 because his laziness reminded me of that c9++ game
geraintm because are you reading his posts
salsa's intro is pingy
t3 is being weird and opportunistic-y and i'm still trying to figure out how to read him

6 feels like too much
and knowing my early reads generally aren't perfect
yeah

[Datisi]

I wanted to vote Selynee but I don’t know - I am no longer feeling that vote.

i still find her pretty suspicious (it's just i dislike the wagon on her moreso), care to convince me otherwise?

Selynee was called out on her indecisiveness and as a result, produces a long post about DW to then conclude that… she doesn’t know DW’s alignment? That didn’t strike me as particularly Scummy.

yeah, that's fair. i could be playing devil's advocate here and argue that that's potentially a scummy move because she's kinda being arrogant and doubling down on "i have nothing to read dwlee on either way, why are you giving me shit for being indecisive", but (1) i'm not sure if i believe that, and (2) i think that's a move that is more likely to come from experienced scum, and i don't remember seeing sel around much, which means i'd have to do research. which i currently don't want to do.

also noted on the other game. i think i was in 3 stressful games at the time so i don't remember the early parts very well, so i'm gonna assume you're correct

[Datisi]

Just think a bit why the scum Gera need to write this? If he reads the game, he knows what ppl think about the claim and Wiki. If he reads badly, it doesnt mean he is a scum. He confessed he doesnt read much. So either he is suicidal mafia, or he can be anyone. These principles can be townie. Not 100% of course

geraintm gives me a vibe of scum who saw a town player acting weird/wacky and decided to use it as an excuse for votes. like it's very easy for scum to slip on a "policy yeet people who are fakeclaiming" bullshit. especially with his "meta" of hating day 1 and not caring about providing content and etc.

[Datisi]

If traitor game then Gera > salsa > a50 has a decent chance of winning imo

this post is like....825 times wrong

is this geraintm having... thoughts? on day 1?

[Datisi]

i mean, to me it looks like dwlee is genuinely solving, and

their

posts so far definitely remind me of previous town games i've played with

them

while you are town solely based on vibes and because i am skeptical scum this consistently puts a foot in their mouth

[Datisi]

literally what is the issue with that post

[Datisi]

Datisi is not town for me. He can be with Dwlee or even darker. Maybe flipping colors will change my mind.

so rather than arguing about your dwlee townread with someone who has experience with dwlee... your move is to just say they're not town after previously townreading them. lovely.

[Datisi]

for the record, no, that is not me saying i think wiki's scum for it, but that attitude annoys the hell out of me

[Datisi]

i am defending a townread for your irrational tunnel. it's plainly obvious you're not thinking straight considering you're willing to drop a townread straight into scumreads for daring to challenge you on it so

[Datisi]

VOTE: salsabil faria
nah.

this related to the tell?

[Datisi]

pretty much, and yet also not really
I'm willing to tolerate play that's scummy-looking from salsa except when it's the sort of antagonistic shit like 460, and 462 also makes me very disinclined to give her any room to breathe

is she more likely to show such antagonistic behaviour when she's scum, or is this some sorta weird policy vote?

You all appear to be friends
VOTE: Datisi

is there any reasoning attached to this vote?
or like, any reasoning in general.

not gonna lie, the wiki being lq guess makes at least some sense from what i know of them
not sure i've ever seen scum!them, but they struck me as one of the few that would indeed decide to play a game like this as scum

Scums: Gamma, Dwlee, Datisi.

gamma is scum why?

and re: three, uh. while i agree it was a sorta clumsy metaphor, i thought "speaking russian = being russian" there? like, "if one of them speaks russian, the other one does not" doesn't imply "one of them speaks russian", just like "if one of them is scum, the other isn't" doesn't imply "one of them is scum".

obviously correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you're looking too deep into it

[Datisi]

re 494: the reason i ask for your experience is because the "when i flip town, you're gonna hide behind others" is a sort of non-commital thought that i see somewhat often. and usually it doesn't imply some sorta big brain calculations of one's flip and all the pushers on their slot's alignments and that the pushers have already planned it out weeks in advance, it's just a reactionary thought to a world that could be happening, and i think it's overall nai. and this is the first time i see someone take a thought like that *that* seriously.

[Datisi]

Selynee (5) - Almost50, Three, Datisi, Iconeum T3

UNVOTE:
actually not sure how much of a fan of this wagon i am
a50 is shitposting and not really doing anything, three had that weird post towards sel that i thought was bad-faithy, and t3's hop on is weirdly out of the blue

let's try uhhh
one two seven VOTE: three

Not liking the bad-faith parroting of T3. It's a minor point, but you never said you that thought that, T3 did.

in 361, i called out your 494 as icky. at the time of writing that post, i didn't remember the *exact* working i used in the previous post, and the two are more or less synonyms here.

[Datisi]

Scums: Gamma, Dwlee, Datisi, Dorsey. I will play this.

so the scumteam's plan is for me to hard defend dwlee from your attacks (which don't have nearly enough support to actually go through anyway), and then me, dorsey, and gamma just baselessly start bussing in random directions? can't wait to get our scummy for that brilliant play.

I don't think I'm looking too deep into it, I barely understand the point of what she's saying there and I'm kind of confused by your own interpretation of it.

i don't know how to more simply explain that saying "if one of dwlee/wiki flips scum, the other one is town"

doesn't also mean

"there is one scum in dwlee/wiki".

why would she back down? like, her argument makes perfect sense (even if it is clunkily worded) and you're the one misunderstanding the logic there.

No, I just don't know any other way to get into the game.

I very very very much like this sequence from Dorsey. He looks like newbtown out of water in a sense.

why newbtown rather than newbscum? that sequence doesn't tell me much of anything, how do you like it *so* much?

daycop isn't a normal role, pretty sure someone has said that already
VOTE: geraintm

Oops!

UNVOTE: Dwlee

VOTE: Wiki

odd how no one jumped on you for the same vote as me....

could it be because salsa's vote was a random vote with no reasoning while your vote was framed in a way that would very much allow you to keep pushing people for very lhf reasons? odd indeed.

Townleaning for now. There is ony one post that I don't really love and that's the quick vote on Gera there.

why?

Well, if you feel like I'm scum claiming, show with the class and put your effort into elim me today.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong? Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you? So, obviously you should want me out.

Why not? I mean, feel free to share.

I… just don’t have any more thoughts. The part where you talk about Andrea seemed designed to make it seem like you’re making discussion while pocketing Andres.

Why? All I asked at that point was his read on Dwelee. Given that he said mine was wishy washy.

But I like you think I could pocket an experienced player.

This is what I mean when I ask why you're scum claiming. You're saying that you're mafia and that you think you could pocket somebody. Why are you doing this?

that is very clearly not what she's saying

back to VOTE: three

@three

, do you have reads other than selynee?

bottom of pg 22, be back at some point.

[Datisi]

I think Datisi tried to save Selynee here. Though he is unlikely together with Three, Im not so sure about Gera. But in that moment Datisi could be looking for whom to push much instead of his partner Selynee.

the issue with this is that this is assuming that i decided to shitpush my partner for ??? reasons and then unvote her based on the "hurr durr wagon is too fast" excuse, when like, i could have just *not* voted her in the first place when i saw there was votes on her already.

now i know a response to this can be "but self meta bad" and my point showing that wiki should get his head out of his ass, because the mad tunnelling on dwlee (which was underexplained) and me (for daring to question his reasoning) is gonna result in confbiased as hell reads. and i want to work with my townreads, especially considering i don't have many of them and that this is a game with 4 scum. i don't wanna be forced to ignore you. so can you try to work with me?

Maybe Salsa is a scum with Datisi, Sely, Dwlee.

sigh.

579 is vaguely kind of townie for geraintm? maybe? should i be townleaning a player for giving thoughts on day 1 after repeatedly saying they hate day 1? andres help pls

584 did make me wonder if i'm getting white-knighted. thonk.

i have a very busy day, will be catching up in bits and pieces

if you want stuff from me, adress me directly and i might get to it :p

372 is also a post that exists.

I scumread you because of your day cop claim (because normal games don't have day cop)

which I asked you later if the claim was serious but you ignored it. And after reading up to page 10, there was nothing to change my vote on you.

why is the bolded scummy?

[Datisi]

@Datisi I haven’t fully caught up but I saw your cry for help so why not.

I would lean positively on anybody contributing in what you perceive to be a Townie manner despite previous experience dictating that such a player tends to avoid doing that (in this case, geraintm).

i'm trying to remember if town!gera actually does contribute from time to time on d1. i'll probably do a cursory meta check if gera starts picking up votes again.

also the reason i asked you specifically is since you mentioned having gera meta knowledge, so. y'know.

pedit: i'm townleaning you rn, yes. but you're also the only person to specifically mention gera-meta, so who else do i ask.

[Datisi]

i actually don't have too many problems with that salsa post, since i read it as "these are the people i'm currently scumleaning"

though i do take issue with the actual names listed there but we haven't gotten to that yet

[Datisi]

@Datisi what do you think of A50? I thought that comment about how they’re not really all that keen to read was pretty Scummy actually. It’s a blatant attempt at avoiding contributing much today, and I don’t appreciate it.

solidly below the null line. i'd vote him as a compromise or if most other people start stepping it up in towniness, but i'm kind of not interested in trying to pressure him, because i get the vibe that the monkey is very chill and won't react to pressure in a readable way.

[Datisi]

re 648:

"weak" - ok cool, you still haven't offered actual explanation on why i'm scum doing things other than saying that i'd be the level zero thinking scum blatantly defending my partners from any miniscule pressure.

584 was talking about salsa protecting me.

and what is supposedly scummy about asking someone else for their read on a person they have experience with?

[Datisi]

I feel like punishing myself from time to time and logging in.

god, this is a mood.

Because many players can believe that if you never rolled scum before, you would have more chances to get it at last every new time. Just statistics.

the fuck.

Chances are still 50-50.

chances for rolling scum are not 50-50... the fuck, part two.

[Datisi]

so, liking sel and gera a bit more, salsa and three a bit less. wiki is still annoying the heck out of me but i don't think he's scum for it.

alright, bed time for me. i'm probably gonna be around for the next ~30 minutes if anyone needs some datisi in their life. if not, see y'all tomorrow.

[Datisi]

sorry if i misread their posts here, but it didnt feel random to me with their back to back posts

i decided to believe her post saying the vote was random (since even if she's scum, i don't see much scum motivation for lying about it, as she would have to either unvote or find actual reasoning for the vote)

while your vote was framed as purely for the guilty and (more importantly) it was already saying that you would votepark wiki if they retracted. it felt tmi, like scum who saw a townie fakeguilting another townie and decided to use that as an ez place for the d1 vote.

[Datisi]

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

uh, neither of them said that? i'm assuming you're talking about 208 and 213 - both of these posts are saying "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", neither is saying that there *has* to be scum between you two?

@three, you (either accidentally or conveniently) missed this post. i did think sel was scummy for her posts back then. but even then i can recognize when her posts were getting misconstructed. she never said there had to be scum between dwlee/wiki, that's what i was calling out. like, just because i think someone is scum for their posts, doesn't mean i don't see when their posts are being misunderstood and that i won't call it out

[Datisi]

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

like this annoys me because i never said her logic wasn't sound, she was scum *despite* because surprise, scum can make arguments that are logically sound

[Datisi]

obviously i don't find her as scummy as i did earlier but you see my point

[Datisi]

What do you think she's saying?

I do have other reads, yes.

Can you explain the thought process behind your vote here?

oh my god

so you accused her of pocketing andres, right?

and she said that she finds it nice that you think scum!her would be able to pocket someone

and then you reply with "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!"

which (1) clearly isn't what she was saying, she was just saying your thoughts are nice and not agreeing with them, and (2) even if she was saying that, how is that a scumclaim? like, i think scum!me here would be able to pocket players like ico or t3, am i now lockscum too?

[Datisi]

my thought process behind the vote is that you keep misconstructing people's arguments to the point i have a hard time believing you genuinely think what you're saying, especially since you claimed you have decent experience. and you seem to have zero reads besides sel. like it reeks of scum who is trying to appear busy by "tunneling" someone, and doing it with godawful arguments too

so what are your reads besides sel?

[Datisi]

the "you" in the above post is obviously three, btw.

ico, wanna join me on this wagon?

also, how is that town!a50?

[Datisi]

@salsa, white knighting is when a person (generally scum) defneds someone (generally town) under fire

why are you ing at that? like, explain to me why fakeclaiming daycop is scummy.

[Datisi]

And I'm not avoiding anything, those 4's scumread on me is biased af, so it’s not out of the context to state that if any of them is scum, they're using this to miseliminate me.

do you think that those 4 people are scummy for their read on you?

[Datisi]

What scum would do all the shit Wiki has done, especially newbscum?

i thought wiki had hundreds of game experience

btw, fucking lol at wiki preaching using logic to play the game.

[Datisi]

that doesn't answer my question. i get that daycop isn't a normal role. but why is fakeclaiming it scummy.

[Datisi]

why are you ing at that? like, explain to me why fakeclaiming daycop is scummy.

you are so scum datisi.

not subscribing to the "yeet all liars" mentality is scummy now, got it. please show me more of your impeccable logic.

[Datisi]

that doesn't answer my question. i get that daycop isn't a normal role. but why is fakeclaiming it scummy.

easy to provide the answer to this, but you even dont think about possible answer to this, u just know im townie and tryin to pocket

i know the answer to it. it's "well it's a fakeclaim, and fakeclaiming is lying, and scum lies". that's also level zero thinking that shouldn't fly anywhere outside the newbie queue, because i think we're all good enough players here to know that town sometimes lies too.

i'm trying to weed out scum using nonsense arguments to push bullshit, i don't give a fuck about your read on me. you're currently the consensus village idiot, and you either see the light at some point or we resolve your slot to make sure you don't throw in yelo.

[Datisi]

class time for me, try to not kill anyone while i'm gone.

[Datisi]

"Lie is a bad thing" - this is a newbie level of thinking.
More important what does it mean on the next levels.
What aims do scums have?
Everything they are doing is forced by their aims.
What aim to fakeclaim early?
I would think firstly that this a very scummy thing for one strong reason.
But nobody here thinks about it.
And Datisi's words that this is obv towns action - are the most suspicious reaction for now. Because it definitely not obv if to think about it really, about all options, looking on the situation from pov of possible scum!wiki. What aim can he have in this moment? What does scum!wiki need to achieve/know?
U dont think about it, u are pretending stupid , defending me like it is obv cannot be scum. This is not true

it's

really

fucking rich coming from you that i'm pretending being stupid when you're misrepping my arguments this fucking bad

show me where i said that you fakeclaiming a guilty makes you obvtown. or even where i said you're obvtown period. fucking quote it. i don't think you're scum for now because this is still extremely out there for most scum players but my dude you are not obvtown.

i know "lie is a bad thing" is a newbie thought process, no fucking shit, that's what i said. that's why i'm asking salsa about her read on your slot. because it's such newbie level thinking that i don't think town!salsa would be having it. but i am

not

defending you from her attacks, i'm asking her reasoning behind them.

[Datisi]

sorry if i misread their posts here, but it didnt feel random to me with their back to back posts

i decided to believe her post saying the vote was random (since even if she's scum, i don't see much scum motivation for lying about it, as she would have to either unvote or find actual reasoning for the vote)

while your vote was framed as purely for the guilty and (more importantly) it was already saying that you would votepark wiki if they retracted. it felt tmi, like scum who saw a townie fakeguilting another townie and decided to use that as an ez place for the d1 vote.

well, if you make the assumption that i was assuming it was a real claim,then parking the vote there makes sense, right?

i guess, i can see a few worlds where someone like you just takes the claim at face value not bothering to check whether that's a normal role or even thinking about would it make sense for a cop to hardclaim on day 1

still think the interaction is ++scum in a vacuum, but your other play has been *fine* and i have bigger fish to fry rn so /shrug

[Datisi]

But nobody thinks about it now and some experinced players like Datisi and Ico are even pretending that this is obv town's action, not thinking about how dangerous it is. Because they probably need any arguments to pocket me, knowing my color.

Comparing with Gamma: he does think that i can be a scum only for fakeclaiming, and this is ok. But at the same time Datisi says that fakeclaing cannot be scummy. This is is not ok. He cannot be so stupid about that in my opinion.

i never said either of these things

me asking about why someone finds your fakeclaim scummy is not me saying that i think fakeclaiming cannot be scummy

are you fucking listening to yourself

[Datisi]

He see no reasons to think that fakeclaiming is scummy because he is trying to pocket me.
If he was town, he wouldn't be so sure that fakeclaiming is not scummy. He would think about all possibilities.

i did think about it
my conclusion was that fakeclaiming bullshit like that is generally more likely to come from carefree town than mastermind scum who's fishing for reactions

iike, you're talking shit about me having so much experience and therefore "playing stupid" for asking things when my experience tells me a VERY different story

and yes, pocketing you, the village idiot who nobody is taking seriously, yep you fucking got me, such high priority target for scumtisi

[Datisi]

Literally just ignore Wiki datisi. Why are you engaging there

i can't ignore someone who's making such bullshit arguments at me, because people are lazy and might decide to just sheep him without fact checking

can you give me a case on scum!gera while i catch up please

[Datisi]

okay

i can't ignore wiki because it drives me up the fucking wall when i'm having a loud voice be that wrong about the things i'm saying

i agree that that entrance is scummy but his posts since have reminded me of town!gera i've seen before (yes i know meta bad)

do you have anything else on him

[Datisi]

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

like this annoys me because i never said her logic wasn't sound, she was scum *despite* because surprise, scum can make arguments that are logically sound

obviously i don't find her as scummy as i did earlier but you see my point

You literally said you hated her posts though? I'm trying to understand how you think her posts make sense but still think she's scummy.

you're not serious.

yes, i said i hated her posts. because i thought they were scum!indicative for aimless questions and barebone solving.

however. she said "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other isn't". that got misrepped as "one of wiki/dwlee is scum". she then claimed that she did not say that. i can understand that her claim of "i did not say that" makes sense, because she did not say that. that doesn't make her town. the fact that she was telling the truth about her previous post doesn't make her town. you do know that scum can sometimes make posts that make sense, right?

What do you think she's saying?

I do have other reads, yes.

Can you explain the thought process behind your vote here?

oh my god

so you accused her of pocketing andres, right?

and she said that she finds it nice that you think scum!her would be able to pocket someone

and then you reply with "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!"

which (1) clearly isn't what she was saying, she was just saying your thoughts are nice and not agreeing with them, and (2) even if she was saying that, how is that a scumclaim? like, i think scum!me here would be able to pocket players like ico or t3, am i now lockscum too?

...What? I never accused her of pocketing Andres. I never accused her of pocketing anyone. She made that pocket comment towards T3, not me. And I didn't say she was lockscum either, hell, I didn't even say "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!" You're putting words in my mouth and you can easily fact check that. Everything you're accusing me of here factually did not happen.

The only thing I said was ask why she was scum claiming. I clearly interpreted it as scum claiming and asked her to clear it up, and then further explained why I saw it as scum claiming.

okay, that first bit is my mistake, i was rushing this morning and thought 521 was yours, not t3's.

doesn't defeat the rest of my point, however. 539 said "You're saying that you're mafia and that you think you could pocket somebody." i don't know how else to interpret that, considering, again, she did not say that. like, the rest of my post still applies, t3 thought she could be pocketing andres, she said it was nice t3 thought that she could be able to, and you jumped in claiming she was saying she thought that.

and like, 528 is also clearly not her claiming scum. it's a response to your 517, where you both called her read fake, and asked why should you be the one to want her out. her answer was "if you think my read is fake, then shouldn't you think i'm scum?". but you twisted it around into a scumclaim???

my thought process behind the vote is that you keep misconstructing people's arguments to the point i have a hard time believing you genuinely think what you're saying, especially since you claimed you have decent experience. and you seem to have zero reads besides sel. like it reeks of scum who is trying to appear busy by "tunneling" someone, and doing it with godawful arguments too

so what are your reads besides sel?

What argument have I misconstrued? This is the only one you could possibly argue that for and you're just wrong anyway.

I don't have "zero reads", I've already given takes.

How am I trying to appear busy or tunneling when I've been interacting with multiple people and keep getting dragged back to an argument from several hundred posts ago? I moved on yet I keep getting asked to defend my read. You can even see that I stopped talking to Sel about it before you dug it back up again, so I'm not sure what eise you want from me?

Why aren't you accusing Sel or Wiki of the same thing?

sel's "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", "scumclaiming", and "saying she thinks she can pocket". and my "how can you say sel has a decent argument while still thinking she's scum?".

ok, going trough your iso.
- scumreading wiki because unexplained reads
- scumreading then townreading gamma (asking town to towntell/good strategy)
- townreading wiki bc he's probably flailing
- the scumread of sel starts
- scumreading me for parroting t3
- scumreading me for scummy reaction over The Bad Read
- and finally, scumreading salsa

like, i'm sorry, but these aren't that many takes, even if i count the very minor one (gamma) that were given off-handedly over a single post or two. like, you've given takes on 5 people so far. not enough for me to know where your head is holistically.

a different question, why did you decide to vote salsa instead of me? you found both of us scummy. (not saying you're scum for voting her.)

holy shit the pedits, i was on this for way too long.

[Datisi]

yeah his second rvs is so important, it should be quoted of course

of all you've quoted only this makes sense "would probably have been voting her, had wiki not been as scummy as he's being"

it wasn't rvs, i said so later

and like, i don't write out every single thought that i have and-- nope no i won't

Datisi, give your trs

dwlee, andres, ico, unfortunately you, and townleans on sel and gera

756 is a dumpsterfire
does everyone understand why it's a dumpsterfire? i don't have to waste 20 minutes of my life explaining it? good, let's move on.

VOTE: Icon

please don't tell me i have to explain it.

gamma, what are you doing?

[Datisi]

@Datisi this is a level of annoyed I don’t think I’ve experienced much from you. I TR it, but I also don’t think you’re going to get much of anywhere rehashing the same points. I would argue you’ve made yourself clear and I do agree that Three’s interpretation of a lot of Selynee’s posts has been somewhat Scummy because it doesn’t feel like Three is taking the most negative view of certain posts that just feel rather innocuous to me.

we haven't yet played in a game where i got royally pissed off?

it's probably not the best use of my time, no, but i felt like that post was worthy of a response. i'm still holding out faith that i'll be able to correctly read three from it. a part of me is wondering if he's truly being genuine, though it's not a huge part.

[Datisi]

Now if you want to find Scum you should be looking at Datisi/Wiki/Icon (probably just ONE of these is Scum, and my best guess is Datisi)

Another is in Dorsy/Ger (it's a 50-50 split for me)

I think Salsabil/Sylenee/Gamma should have the remaining 2 Scums in them

could we get some explanation along with these takes?

i know "lie is a bad thing" is a newbie thought process, no fucking shit, that's what i said. that's why i'm asking salsa about her read on your slot. because it's such newbie level thinking that i don't think town!salsa would be having it. but i am

not

defending you from her attacks, i'm asking her reasoning behind them.

that doesn't answer my question. i get that daycop isn't a normal role. but why is fakeclaiming it scummy.

Cause I didn’t read the game and didn’t know that they fakeclaimed it to tunnel

Dwlee

for whatever reason.
I entered the game with

Dwlee

vote (RVS) without knowing what is happening in the game, then saw

gera

's post where

Wiki

hard claimed guilty on

Dwlee

makes my RVS vote serious. Then saw your post saying day vig isn’t normal, thus vote

Wiki

. But it g_t cleared today as I read up to page 15 and know that they fake claimed.

^is not scummy anymore.

my question still isn't answered. "Then saw your post saying day vig isn’t normal, thus vote Wiki." why the thus?

What are you seeing there dats

Fmpov gera has made some surface level posts and don't nothing townie since his extremely scummy entrance

And yes, meta bad, but I don't even think you can claim this would be meta town for him

ime reading gera is like "if his posts frustrate me to no end but i get The Feeling that he's being genuine, then he's town"

granted i don't have too much scum!gera experience, i once backup modded a game where he was scum and i *think* he was like, a bit more wooden and awkward there

granted it's been a while and i didn't exactly go back to check. if the wagon has picked up decent traction, i could try to effort a bit to try to figure out

[Datisi]

dwlee, andres, ico, unfortunately you, and townleans on sel and gera

and for this dwlee-ico datisi is scum too

yep
as soon as i saw one (1) shit case on my partner i lost my mind and went into full defense mode because i am that scared
you got it

Datisi sred a bit: ico, seny, gera...
Now datisi trs them.

i'm not sure if you've heard of it

it's called re-evaluating

[Datisi]

we haven't yet played in a game where i got royally pissed off?

it's probably not the best use of my time, no, but i felt like that post was worthy of a response. i'm still holding out faith that i'll be able to correctly read three from it. a part of me is wondering if he's truly being genuine, though it's not a huge part.

As far as I can remember, no I don’t think I’ve seen you get truly aggravated.

there's been a few games, but stubborn people who are just so clearly *wrong* annoy me to no end. i know i should probably not get annoyed because this is mafia but /shrug

i'm gonna try to not check this game for the next few hours to eat dinner and actually get some work done

[Datisi]

when i feel like playing mafia but realizing i have to read multiple pages of wiki repeating the same nonsense case over and over

like dude
judging by the last votecount, you haven't convinced anyone except the person who isn't even reading the game

do you genuinely think your spam is protown?

[Datisi]

You're really not a stupid that you're trying to be here. Why are you doing this?

i'm not trying to be stupid. you're just repeating "wiki fakeclaimed a role that isn't normal, therefore he's scummy". like, obviously it's a fakeclaim since the role isn't normal - why does that make them scummy?

it's called re-evaluating

It is not traceable through your posts.

so instead of asking "what changed your mind on xyz player", your instant reaction is to conclude i'm scum making up reads? do you genuinely think that townies write out every single goddamn thought they have about a game?

and i see in pedits it's indeed what you will do. okay.

on page 40, i need a break from this shitshow.

[Datisi]

Townping from Selynee tho

VOTE: selynee

yeah

THERE IS NOTHING BETWEEN THESE 2 POSTS, WHY HE DECIDED TO CHANGE HIS MIND

so a townping from someone on *checks notes* page three means they have to write an essay for if they decide to vote that person later?

like, sel had posted a lot of posts in between those two, and i think there was some sorta wagon going on her at the time

people sometimes naked vote for a multiple of reasons
because they wanna add pressure to the person they're not townreading
because they wanna see how they react
because they don't fucking feel like explaining every single post they make

i can't believe this level of basic shit has to be explained to someone who apparently has so much mafia experience as a professional mafia player but here we fucking are

[Datisi]

actually you know what

if you had actually cared about sorting ico, you would've asked about why he decided to vote someone he had a townping on on page three-- i mean who he was so strongly townreading

but you don't actually give a shit, you're just looking for an easy target to attack based on facts and logic without having to actually do anything, right?

[Datisi]

VOTE: wiki

i wonder if this will go anywhere?

[Datisi]

because people obviously aren't reading my posts

@almost50

, can you explain your takes in 767?

@gamma emerald

, why did you vote iconeum after that dogshit case?

[Datisi]

And u say i've found easy target in ico. Nice. So this is just a lie from Datisi, Datisi should be a scum, easy game

easy target to attack =/= easy target to misyeet

obviously nobody is listening to you because your case is awful, town understands it's shite and scum isn't stupid enough to try voting with that as their justification

but it gives you a nice tunnel where you might as well be a bot that posts "ico voted his townreads" every 5 minutes

[Datisi]

@almost50, can you explain your takes in 767?

I can

then do

Why the fuck are you voting wiki rn datisi

because he's not interesting in sorting and is just looking for level zero bullshit he can push

you can try to convince me to vote salsa if you want, i didn't find anything concrete in your iso about her

[Datisi]

i don't disagree but she always feels lowkey scummy to me

[Datisi]

i'm gonna shorten my response to 1012 because this game is already giving me a headache due to wiki and it's not worth it

i am disagreeing with you? or rather i'm calling you out for falsely saying i have a "contradiction" going. like, 740 asks how i can think a post she made made sense while still thinking it's scummy. i can think both, because scum sometimes tells the truth. she was telling the truth about never claiming there was scum between dwlee/wiki. that doesn't make her town.

i'm not quoting word for word (and am rather carrying over the meaning) because it's easier to make my point that way. like it seemed obvious to me that "cuz i'm mafia pushing you?" was said in a "is this not what you're thinking right now?" context.

and it's called hyperbole. yes, you obviously didn't have literally zero reads and takes this whole game. the intended meaning was always "i think you've given too little content for how you've been active", like i think it was kinda understood to mean that?

[Datisi]

Icon didn’t really feel towny and the case seemed somewhat reasonable
What’s wrong with the case?

it's pulling random quotes where ico had one opinion on someone, then later on changed his mind and voted that person, and some of those reads were literal page 3-5 reads

like i don't think it's a controversial take to say that people don't generally write out every single thought process they have about a game

and the fact that wiki doesn't listen to others' opinions or at least take them into consideration, doesn't listen to criticism and just keeps repeating "ico scum anyone townreading ico scum"

and most of all doesn't even think to ask "hey, why did you change your mind on xyz" (even though earlier in the game he was giving me shit for apparently always having the same opinion on him!) is telling that he doesn't actually give a shit about solving anyone

[Datisi]

Because I just figured one of Andres, Ico, or T3. Andres 0 votes on vanity wagon, T3 0 votes on leading wagon 1, Ico 0 votes on leading wagon 2

when do you plan actually playing this game? why those three names?

[Datisi]

and most of all doesn't even think to ask "hey, why did you change your mind on xyz"

i dont need to ask. he will come and answer if he has anything to say about this. he has nothing to say about 30 hours or smth. your defense is weird, you pretend like you are reading his thoughts, while he keeps silence

ico and i have been friends outside games for over two years now

i know he's busy and he's v/la literally every weekend for the past few years so sorry for not scumreading his absence

[Datisi]

I feel like she should know better than a day cop guilty in a normal when she made 397

i have seen people butcher normal games harder, so like

[Datisi]

i know he's busy and he's v/la literally every weekend for the past few years so sorry for not scumreading his absence

i said nothing about his vla on weekend. i read his iso and he mentioned it there.
but my arguments were before weekend. he saw them. and he has nothing to say in his defense.
you just imagine reasons instead of he

wrong again, he stopped posting for weekend vla before you dropped your masterpiece of a case (except to declare vla earlier today)

like your point was literally "he hasn't posted in 30 hours" which is approx how long his weekend vla has been happening for so what am i supposed to think you're attacking here

[Datisi]

I didn’t realize then

day cop

isn’t possible in normal games. When saw

Datisi

's post about mentioning it, I remembered that day cop/vig aren’t normal.

do you mind responding to the first part of my 1058?

[Datisi]

also my ico townread is mostly based on ~vibes~ and ~meta~

if it becomes really necessary, i'll put together a case, but i have zero motivation to do it when i know it's just gonna be responded with "lol datisi is scum with ico" and ignored

[Datisi]

yes, that's when his weekend vla starts

and yep, defending the person who i have probably the best read accuracy on on site from bad attacks, i'm such scum

fuck

pedit: i am not about to go scrubbing through his old games and rereading isos to find instances where he changed his mind about something

ppedit: if it becomes necessary, he's currently on zero votes (iirc) and it'd be a lot of effort wasted

[Datisi]

if you really was thinking about his meta, u would easily remember any games, where he was the same

do you think i have 30+ games across 2 years memorized front to back to be able to remember in which ones he voted a person he townread beforehand?

[Datisi]

I really just want salsa flipped and next day phase

again, convince me that salsa is a better flip than wiki

[Datisi]

fam, i got scum!ico flipped within 12 hours last time i saw him, i can tell what he rolled

you're gonna have to excuse me for not believing you are actually gonna consider anything i put effort into

[Datisi]

do you think i have 30+ games across 2 years memorized front to back to be able to remember in which ones he voted a person he townread beforehand?

you can remember just any of previous ones. no need to look for smth 2 years ago

ico doesn't have a completed town game since february, so yes i would have to dig through old stuff in order to answer

[Datisi]

salsa, i read those posts already, they don't answer my question. but right now i don't even care anymore, i have actual work to do that i didn't do yesterday because i just passed out, i'm gonna peace out for the time bez

[Datisi]

i don't know how to phrase my question differently than "what do you find scummy about fakeclaiming daycop?".

you just keep quoting that post where you say it's not a normal role. but that doesn't explain anything.

[Datisi]

y'all, i finished some work more than a day before its deadline, i am so proud of myself
anyway, where were we

i don't know how to phrase my question differently than "what do you find scummy about fakeclaiming daycop?".

you just keep quoting that post where you say it's not a normal role. but that doesn't explain anything.

Ok, I'm trying to make it clear. When I entered the game with

Dwlee

vote, it was RVS. Then I saw

gera

's post including

Wiki

's

hard claiming day cop

guilty on

Dwlee

and made 397 without realizing that day cop isn’t normal and at that point, I didn’t read the game at all. So when I saw your where you said day cop isn’t normal and vote

gera

, I was surprised at 1st that why you're not voting

Wiki

because they fake claimed guilty on someone but I also knew there had to be something, so I need to catch up first. But before starting to catch up,

Wiki

was scum to me for that fake claim.

ok, i see we're not getting anywhere because my literal question is "why are they scum for the fakeclaim?" that you keep dodging

also wiki, i'm not trying to convince you. i'm telling you why i find ico town. i currently don't care about convincing you because so far you've thrown all of my arguments away with "datisi is dwlee/ico scumbuddy" and nobody else is voting ico so why should i bother.

[Datisi]

1176 is kinda funny to me because i spend so much time each game rereading my own iso and going "what the fuck were my reads again" as either alignment because i just forget lmao

wiki's vote on salsa feels like a very bizarre gotcha - like i think all of us have at some point thought someone is town despite having bad reads, even if they're not a bad player

though i am annoyed because when i was taking a break from studying earlier, i was skimming the game and i remember thinking "wiki has a point here tho" about

something

, but now it's midnight and my brain is fried and i cannot remember what i was thinking

i think it was about how it's odd for salsa to be freely voting alongside dwlee while not even attempting to iron out the differences the two of them have in their reads? not sure

[Datisi]

re 1097: i am not wrong about my posts not having a contradiction nor the general knowledge of "you have zero reads" not literally meaning zero but

yeah i'm over it

i think i'm in agreement with andres that dorsey kinda doesn't feel like scum here
like, i dunno, scum usually at least *tries* to have some sorta progression or appearing of being solvey or whatever
while dorsey lowkey gives zero shits right now

that said at some point i will take the n_m approach to that slot which is solve it before yelo if they don't start actually playing, so

[Datisi]

sup fucks, guess who did absolutely nothing productive the whole day

i have Things to prepare for tomorrow and will catch up after that, i was skimming during the day and wiki's efforts seem solvey enough that i should at least reassess
UNVOTE: wiki

will figure out a vote in a few hours

also re 1281 - i am not defending ico with no reason. you can be a logic player all you want, but gut is what works for me. and i know how to read him. and there are great lengths that i will go to if i'm townreading ico and i think others are falsely scumreading him

however, i can show some good faith to try to work with you. if you stop constantly screaming that anyone townreading your scumreads is scum. because that shit gets old real fast.

[Datisi]

my last game with iconeum begs to differ + i am obvtown and the only reason you have for scumreading me is going against your super duper lockscumreads of dwlee and ico

[Datisi]

fam i have 30+ games with ico, i'm not just comparing him to the last game

the last game is just an example of where it took me 3 pages to snipe scum!him

[Datisi]

got pings early on, whenever it was when he started posting more is when i got more sure in the read

don't remember if it was thursday or friday

[Datisi]

so much about good faith, huh

[Datisi]

it's games like these where i wonder if i should just start playing like not_mafia

[Datisi]

Having more votecounts would make it easier to follow the bandwagoners. I feel there are several wagons that build up rapidly out of nowhere.

Edit: I voted andres because I could. There's nothing saying he's town and nobody knows anything about the other players so I don't see the issue with voting and gauging reactions. I feel it would be different if I was putting him in a vulnerable position, like close to elimination or something. Do you disagree or something?

so what did you learn from the gauging reactions by voting andres? and how did you come up with those groups of people?

[Datisi]

i started reading earlier but i got busy and now it's late and reading a few pages of preflip 4-person scumteam solves (lol) is tiring so will properly bother with this game tomorrow maybe

one quick thing i wanna point out wrt salsa - you just kept repeating the same thing but adding more exclamation marks, why did it take you so long to write 1247

scum fakeclaiming cop on d1 to misyeet someone is generally ridiculous, and i *want* to say "for rolefishing" doesn't make sense as an explanation since you kept pointing out it was because they fakeclaimed a role that's not normal

in the meantime, i'm invoking the luca blight tell of "seeming to give zero shits is probably town" but "giving the appearance of giving some shits while not actually doing anything, that's scummy" (yes i know it was wrong the last time i used it, but dorsey's votes are like legit nonsense and they need proper explanation)

VOTE: dorsey

[Datisi]

andres, why is salsa town?
dwlee, why is salsa scum?

[Datisi]

i think andres is very likely town unless he is aligned with exactly [people who are currently top wagons, cbf to check atm]

i recall reading a neighbour pt of the game i modded, where andres said something along the lines of being somewhat lazy as scum or losing motivation or just being disinterested

i think we're still relatively early in the game so maybe the read is a bit premature, but i have a feeling andres could somewhat easily make a push to swing to one wagon over the other if he wanted to save someone from the top wagons

starting a whole new wagon that has like one person who's so far in support of it feels way out there, unless like all of the current yeet candidates are his buddies and he's determined to singlehandedly turn the wagons over, and i'm generally skeptical of all leading wagons being scum (especially in a 4v9)

all wagons being town and scum!andres doing some 9000 iq play where he "tries" to turn it over to someone else is maybe possible, but feels like taking the path of a lot of resistance for no reason

[Datisi]

i *could* argue this is andres finally rolling scum on this forum after a year and a half and being so excited he decided to make the game that much more difficult for himself, but he rn feels tonally the same to me as he did in his previous games + occam's razor etc

[Datisi]

andres, why

DO YOU THINK

salsa

IS

town?
dwlee, why

DO YOU THINK

salsa

IS

scum?

Lol, this game is going to be something

?

[Datisi]

starting a whole new wagon that has like one person who's so far in support of it feels way out there, unless like all of the current yeet candidates are his buddies and he's determined to singlehandedly turn the wagons over, and i'm generally skeptical of all leading wagons being scum (especially in a 4v9)

all wagons being town and scum!andres doing some 9000 iq play where he "tries" to turn it over to someone else is maybe possible, but feels like taking the path of a lot of resistance for no reason

Why does this make you feel positively about Andres, but negatively about Dorsey?

it just makes me think andres is town, it doesn't mean i agree with his read or that it influences my read on dorsey in any way. i explained it back when i voted them.

[Datisi]

Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context.

i'm pretty sure i spoke about this already? like, i know gera is absolutely not going to do shit on day one. and he's going to get shit for it, and he knows it too. the way i generally read him is that if what he's saying makes my eyes roll, he's town. that... didn't, it just made it seem like he found *Something* he can latch onto for day 1 to make sure that townies don't latch onto him as "not solving, not doing anything" etc.

[Datisi]

I get that you're saying you think Andres is town because of it, but I'm asking why. I also read your vote of Dorsey, which is why I'm trying to see what the difference is. One doesn't vote a leading wagon and you vote them (Dorsey), the other doesn't and you commend them (Andres). What's the difference that I'm overlooking?

i... explained why? i think scum!andres has no motivation to say "all these leading wagons are town, let's fucking build a new one!" if he can just bullshit something about voting one of the leading wagons - scum is generally lazy.

i'm not voting dorsey for "not voting the leading wagon". i'm voting them because their newer posts seem to be designed to give an appearance of some sorta effort and scumhunting, but they just feel completely made up and arbitrary, and they need to be forced to explain themselves. it has nothing to do with who they're voting. (well, almost nothing - i have no clue why they're voting a50, but you get it.)

[Datisi]

andres, why is salsa town?
dwlee, why is salsa scum?

PoE + she is tonally scummy and is doing some ridiculous ate stuff but when does she not amirite

yes exactly, she is always like that so like
other than poe (which i need to recheck myself because i'm not sure i have a good holistic view of the game rn) i got nothing

Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context.

i'm pretty sure i spoke about this already? like, i know gera is absolutely not going to do shit on day one. and he's going to get shit for it, and he knows it too. the way i generally read him is that if what he's saying makes my eyes roll, he's town. that... didn't, it just made it seem like he found *Something* he can latch onto for day 1 to make sure that townies don't latch onto him as "not solving, not doing anything" etc.

That's a pretty vague litmus test

i mean, my read on gera is 2/2 so far and also not like i have much to work with on day 1

do you have a different opinion on him?

[Datisi]

/shrug

you probably won't be able to figure out the colour of my role pm based on my gera read, at least not for now.

[Datisi]

i'm voting because they give me scumpings and i want them to either properly explain themselves (so i can sort them) or die

[Datisi]

dorsey has given us nothing, what can i even disagree with there?

[Datisi]

looker, is this helping you sort me or are you just asking questions to look busy?

[Datisi]

what opinions did you get from your questions so far?

[Datisi]

@t3, is there a reason why most of your catchup today is shitting on ico, but you're still voting salsa?

[Datisi]

dorsey has given us nothing, what can i even disagree with there?

If you could rank the players in order of contribution, how would the list go?

vaguely from memory - wiki andres dwlee sel salsa ico three t3 a50 gera dorsey looker

how is this relevant

This entire game is about asking meaningless questions to random strangers and forming half-assed opinions. I've also JUST ENTERED IT, lol, why so uptight?

i am trying to sort you?

[Datisi]

Likewise. I feel your list is ad hoc. How is A50, who has posted nothing but jokes and videos, contributing more than geraintm, who has referenced game-specific cases and spoke to meta? And that's if I'm working under the assumption that all lurkers are scum.

because a50's self vote and trying to get something done there has stuck out more in my memory as more contributing than whatever it is that gera has done in this game

like i legit can't think of game relevant things he's done other than saying salsa is scummy for making a list of 4 people and saying there's probably scum in it

[Datisi]

quick skim through his iso, i think i'm right - he called the cases on himself bad, and offered self-meta on why he's always useless on day 1. that's not what i count contributing.

[Datisi]

i wouldn't apply that tell to a50 at all, since he's far from a typical player, and my ability to read his tone is a flat zero.

[Datisi]

you do know that lowest amount of content =/= scummiest, right?

[Datisi]

i vote people often, it helps me sort. if you wanna actually make a case on what it says about my alignment, you're free to do so.

pedit: okay.

[Datisi]

what did i say that made you think i wasnt town.

the reason i voted you, the comment about voteparking wiki >_>

[Datisi]

where is my invite?

[Datisi]

from "don't see a case for scum!them" to highly uncertain?

[Datisi]

But if someone hard claims twice then anyone would say “if they back track from that they deserve to be punished “ right.

i mean, if it's a claim that makes a lick of sense or is even theoretically possible, sure. but a cop, a daycop, outing himself on day 1 for a guilty, *and* it obviously not being a normal role? come on.

[Datisi]

from "don't see a case for scum!them" to highly uncertain?

That didn’t mean I think Datisi is hard Town. It just means I can’t convince myself yet that Datisi is Scum. But I have been re-reading and I think Selynee is Town. Your post basically stating that everything Selynee had been posting in the early part of the game doesn’t sit well with me in hindsight. But I could be wrong, Selynee could be Scum, and you two I would argue are not SvS.

i didn't take it to mean that, but it still felt as a way too stark contrast. do you actually take issue with anything specific or find my progression scummy or something? it's really annoying to have to respond to things this vague.

you still haven't responded about your salsa townread, unsure if you've missed it or whatever.

[Datisi]

wiki

if there are multiple people telling you that your read of gera is nonsense and that he literally always acts like this as town too, can you stop with your bullshit spam pushing what is essentially a policy and at least pretend to be a team player? because if anyone here is getting policied, it's gonna be you.

[Datisi]

re: andres - that's *fine*, i guess. though you haven't quite responded to what i asked. like, i agree with you that sel has gotten townier in the recent times. do you think that she was towny back when i said i scumread her? or is this just some form of a retroactive bop? because i'm gonna be decently annoyed if it is. >_>

mind talking about your three townread, then? that's a slot i have to revisit because they've been stuck in the "scummy, but will sort later" part of my brain for a while.

[Datisi]

Every time I open my mouth I get attacked anyway.

- lurks for the majority of the game
- in the rare times they post, they're throwing out nonsense reads
- ignoring any and all questions to actually explain what they're thinking
- surprised they're getting shit???

[Datisi]

looker has waaaaaay higher wim than i remember scum him having

mind elaborating? it feels to me like his contribution so far is just going with the flow and taking weak potshots, while the only game i've seen looker in (that granted, was almost two years ago) they were town and had like, takes.

i'd go check if i am right on them playing like that in that past game, but for now i don't feel like going back to the shitfest that that game was

[Datisi]

t3 is being weird and opportunistic-y and i'm still trying to figure out how to read him

@Datisi can you update this take? This is the last time you expressed a read on T3. And you’ve only asked a single question there after that as far as I can tell.

no

the only two times i read t3 correctly was when he made a meta case that involved reading three games, and when i had solved literally every other slot in the game and he was (quite literally) poe.

i think the better way to read him is with flips and via associates, because i've blundered his alignment way too hard too many times to be able to make any solid call on d1.

likewise, i don't townread him, so if you wanna start a push there, by all means i won't stand in your way, it might be useful info later after all. but i'm far from convined.

and to answer looker's shade i saw, no, i wasn't planning on voting t3 when i made that post.

[Datisi]

i'm vibing with dwlee and that slightly scares me

wiki makes me regret being the one to get "you cannot use scripts to ignore another person in the game" to become a site rule

see y'all later

[Datisi]

i wanna hop on T3 for my previous post on him, but that wagon just looks gross tbf

do you find anything else about the wagon gross other than dorsey?

[Datisi]

why does vibing with dwlee scare you? i've been townreading them for a while now

general paranoia, i do think they're town

it's like, if i've got scum in my townreads, that's potentially where i'd look because i'm not sure i have much more on them other than "yeah they like, feel town and shit"

but i have way more people as not a townread so it's not really a concern of mine atm

[Datisi]

it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well

what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>

[Datisi]

it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well

poison the whole wagon*

i was thinking of "poisoning the well" fallacy as i was typing that up xd

[Datisi]

on one hand i wanna try out a looker wagon to See What Happens

on the other, i think it's plainly obvious dorsey is not gonna be doing shit this game, and we can't have an unsortable slot for long because we have a very limited amount of misyeets, so bringing them to y-1 to force them to talk sounds like a very +town thing regardless of their alignment

decisions, decisions

[Datisi]

@t3, an answer to 1623 whenever you're ready

[Datisi]

three's read on me is utter bullshit because he's been called out by multiple people as misrepping, which means that maybe, *maybe* your posts are fucking confusing and it's not the rest of us that are wrong

rn i'm leaning on it being town bullshit

but it's bullshit nonetheless

Check Gamma/Datisi/Andre

not me? or have you solved me already?

he's solved you already, you're scum, and gamma/me/andres are your buddies for protecting you
also i'm scum with ico because i was protecting him
i'm also also scum with dwlee because i was protecting them
i'm not sure anyone is town in this game tbh

If I had the same amount of time as previous games, I could reference posts, but there are too many posts, multiple games, and not enough free time. And then Datisi said he didn't even disagree with me, that he just wanted more, but he's comfortable letting other players slide. And I can understand that if he's scum, but for multiple people not to see the inconsistency but to just go with that. Why would I prolong my stay in that?

what's the "inconsistency" there? why are you voting t3 if you think that i'm the best yeet here? what *can* i even disagree with you up to this point because you've offered us literally nothing?

And another thing. My votes were criticized but looking back they were extremely minimal impact, so why does it matter?

...

i think i'm in agreement with andres that dorsey kinda doesn't feel like scum here
like, i dunno, scum usually at least *tries* to have some sorta progression or appearing of being solvey or whatever
while dorsey lowkey gives zero shits right now

that said at some point i will take the n_m approach to that slot which is solve it before yelo if they don't start actually playing, so

Few datisi's posts later

VOTE: dorsey

are you intentionally being dense and pretending that my reads weren't explained? what, you can't accuse me of changing my reads without explanation, so you accuse me of... changing my reads?

like, if you're gonna vote me, fucking vote me, this is stupid

Dorsey is now a bad execution. I hope you can see that yeah? Which means, you should reconsider your worldview a bit. I know I am.

i cannot see that
they're looking like a great execution to me right now

Datisi protecting Almost50 and T3, Ico siding with Datisi, everyone thinking Datisi is town for zero reason.

like... two and a half people have expressed a townread on me

if you wanna make a case on me, actually make it

can people quit with the pussyfooting around me

Chances are, my suspicion was way off, and the Scum are knowingly avoiding you. It’s part of the reason I TR Selynee actually (they’ve expressed misgivings of your slot). It’s the sort of thing that would be a total waste coming from Scum.

i'm too stupid for this, please explain

oh yeah, i was also annoyed at you because you lowkey seem to be ignoring what i'm asking about *why* you had such huge problems with my early sel suspicion

there's a voice telling me you're actually trying to shut me out by ignoring me, i don't want to listen to it but it's getting louder

vague responses to looker because i am way too tired for a proper wall response:
- wiki's different from the rest of us in that he's very loudly wrong and refuses to listen to anyone but himself
- how the hell am i supposed to press them for info if they're literally not posting? like, do you think that if i repost the question every two hours, it'll make them post?
- mostly going off of your interaction with me - it seemed like you were way more interested in making me look bad for bs contradictions and cheap potshots than actually solving me. i don't think you once said how something is townie or scummy about me, you just kept shading me. if you're actually interested in this and won't just turn it into a nonsense comeback, i can go in depth tomorrow when it's not an hour past my bedtime.
- i'm vibing, their posts make me feel like they're town despite not having much Concrete there, like do you know what a vibe is? and yes i solve a lot on gut
- for the record, there is one of the cheap potshots i am talking about
- i was just repeating ico's words, and also i have given out a read on every person on that wagon, so
- dorsey isn't a50, i know a50 can be a troll as town so yeeting him would be a ~random yeet
- again this also feels like bad faith trying to point out a """contradiction"""

i see the pedits, i've already wasted too much time on this, i'm going to bed

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?

i think it would

(:

VOTE: three

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned

[Datisi]

wiki, can you stop pretending like you're a fucking moron who learned about the game of mafia yesterday

you were giving me shit earlier for "not having any progression on you and never considering you scum" (despite that being untrue!) and now you're pretending like i just randomly called dorsey scum after calling them town with no reasoning or explanation

get your head out of your own fucking ass because you're showing time and time again you don't know shit about this game

[Datisi]

and three, i haven't *had* a progression on you yet, because there are a few things i wanna point out and it's gonna be much easier to do on my laptop

but please, do immediately attack me for it, it's gonna look real fucking good for you later (:

[Datisi]

"i change my mind, three is scum, i will elaborate a bit later as i don't have time right now"
"wow what a wild progression"

like, you're just looking at the fact that i changed my read without even giving a shit why. so either you think i'm scum regardless of why my eead changed (which is bad) or you're jumping at the opportunity to attack me now that the dorsey wagon is dwindling down (which again, bad)

and here's the problem i have with you, like it's plainly obvious i meant "i didn't have the most recent progression on you explained yet", because that is clearly what part of my progression you're attacking in 1773

but in 1778, you're taking the literal meaning of progression as a whole (when again, not what we're talking about) and attacking *that* part of my post, despite that not being relevant and not what we're talking about

[Datisi]

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

[Datisi]

VOTE: A50

ok master Wiki

guide me to victory senpai

ico, what are you doing

[Datisi]

three's read on me is utter bullshit because he's been called out by multiple people as misrepping, which means that maybe, *maybe* your posts are fucking confusing and it's not the rest of us that are wrong

rn i'm leaning on it being town bullshit

but it's bullshit nonetheless

Dude can you literally talk about anything other than a post from a fucking week ago? You're so focused on something that doesn't matter and you refuse to actually try to solve me. I'm trying to figure you out and you don't even acknowledge it.

Also "called out by multiple people" you mean you, who I scum read? Salsa, who I scum read and who also LIED about the misrep? Lmao. Sel is the only other one and it got clarified a week ago that what I said wasn't a misrep, it was a misunderstanding. Get the fuck over it and play the game or get limmed.

Like we're on page 70 now and all Datisi can say is "but what about the post you made on page 20" as if that is somehow relevant at all. Especially when it got dealt with four times and that still apparently wasn't enough.

*breathe in*

are you serious. you just told me that i'm not talking about anything other than a post from a week ago. after (1) i literally posted a wallpost that was talking about the posts from the past 2-3 pages, (2) in which i was responding to

your own read on me

that

you yourself brought up

in the past 2-3 pages. what, you're allowed to make reads based on posts that were a week ago, but once someone responds to that, it's suddenly all they're talking about?

also like, where in that post did you find me being so focused on a post from a week ago, or that i didn't even try to acknowledge the fact you're trying to sort me? like??? i never mentioned a specific post, i just said your case and read on me were utter nonsense. which it still is and i'm not backing down from that. and i clearly acknowledged the fact you're trying to sort me, i literally said i thought it was towny, the fuck do you think that means?

it's clear that the thread tides are turning against me, i don't think it's rocket surgery to figure that out. and these two posts can be nothing than purposefully ignorant. there's nothing else they can be. to quote 3 lines from a 25-line post and claim it's proof that week-old posts are all i'm talking about, when (1) i wasn't talking about them there, (2) i spoke about many different things in the post, and (3) i was responding to something that you yourself brought up, it's plain simple bad faith.

[Datisi]

datisi, why to elim a50 is so bad idea for you?
u consider gera and dorsey are towns
a50 thinks they are scums, and he gives nothing more in the game to us
so why do you think that this is suspicious to scumread a50 now?

he also votes u, but u are protecting him with no thinking about the possibility that he is just a lazy scum

i'll tell you a secret: i don't scumread a50. i don't townread him either. frankly, i think that anyone who claims that they have a read on a50 here has either never seen or heard of a50, or they're lying.

i know there's a possibility a50 is a lazy scum. i also know there's a possibility he's lazy town. i have no clue how to tell the difference. but that makes his yeet about ~rand of yeeting scum. which, if we're that lost, or if everyone else seems townier, then sure, we can do that. but when i have an actual scumread on someone, i don't see the reason to give that up for what is essentially a random policy.

suspecting a50 in of itself isn't a problem. my issue is the timing. there's an obvious argument between me and three happening, is that all you have to say about it? like, it's fucking annoying, i don't want to just give up and vote the funney lurker. if he's scum, then fuck me, but i don't like policy yeets for players that i know aren't acting in a very ai way.

[Datisi]

vague responses to looker because i am way too tired for a proper wall response:
- wiki's different from the rest of us in that he's very loudly wrong and refuses to listen to anyone but himself
- how the hell am i supposed to press them for info if they're literally not posting? like, do you think that if i repost the question every two hours, it'll make them post?
- mostly going off of your interaction with me - it seemed like you were way more interested in making me look bad for bs contradictions and cheap potshots than actually solving me. i don't think you once said how something is townie or scummy about me, you just kept shading me. if you're actually interested in this and won't just turn it into a nonsense comeback, i can go in depth tomorrow when it's not an hour past my bedtime.
- i'm vibing, their posts make me feel like they're town despite not having much Concrete there, like do you know what a vibe is? and yes i solve a lot on gut
- for the record, there is one of the cheap potshots i am talking about
- i was just repeating ico's words, and also i have given out a read on every person on that wagon, so
- dorsey isn't a50, i know a50 can be a troll as town so yeeting him would be a ~random yeet
- again this also feels like bad faith trying to point out a """contradiction"""

• "Nonsense" is dismissive
  
• Which contradictions do you feel made you look bad?
  
• Do you feel there's a difference between "shading" and sorting?
  
• Do you feel you're able to navigate bias regarding Iconeum's atypically high regard for you
  
• "Andres is town" 1502; "Sel is townier" 1621; "Dorsey is gross" 1640
  
• You have a special relationship with A50. Understood.
  
• How would you propose finding scum if not by finding patterns and inconsistencies? Would you prefer "vibes"?
  • I actually think you don't care to find scum because you are scum, and thus don't care to be obligated to consistency. I think that's why you're trying to make things so inconsistent and mood-based.

p-edit: Does increased profanity mean that Datisi is thinking harder?
p-p-edit: Yes. Help me find mafia, lol.

"contradictions" and cheap potshots that i hate, other than the ones already pointed out above:
- 1496 is misrepping my reasoning for voting dorsey and making a "contradiction" out of it (though this one *can* be forgiven if you're newly in the game, etc)
- 1513 is once again doing that, and it's asking a very leading question that makes me look bad no matter how i answer
- 1533 was also showing my vote in the worst light possible
- most of the rest of the convo around pages 61-62 felt like it was made in the sort of condescending looking-for-a-gotcha tone, like asking me about my gut-based reads or asking which players do i think contributed the most

- yes, sorting is using the things you're hearing and making ai conclusions out of it. shading is responding in a way that's *clearly* meant to imply you think the person is scummy, but not outright saying it nor providing any concrete reasoning, just painting it in a bad light and lettign the audience draw their own conclusions, so to speak

- i'd say so, scum!iconeum hasn't ever approached me like this, and this game is far more effort from him than i'd expect if he randed scum 5th game in a row. i'll admit i'm not willing to bet the game on it yet, but so far he reads town to me.

- the townread on andres was literally explained in the post you linked (other than the meta/gut of him feeling like he usually does, but i know you don't care about that), dorsey i'd also explained and you shot it down as me wagoning the lowest content slot, sel has just felt... solvey? i can go over her slot later, don't feel too much like doing it right this moment bc she's not under fire and holy shit do i have things to respond to in the thread

- yes, call that special relationship "knowing who a50 is".

- again this feels like a bad faith leading question. obviously patterns and inconsistencies are a way of finding scum. but it's also pretty known that some inconsistencies that appear scummy do come from town, because town makes mistakes too. especially if they're as forced as you're making mine out to be >_>

- i've been a proponent of gutreads ever since i joined this site, if i have to be digging quotes where i say that, i'm gonna lose it

fuck me the pedits

[Datisi]

ok.. Datisi

confirmed a Townie

, and you can take that to the bank.

what?

Btw, resetting ALL my reads and starting all over, I have both Datisi & Salsa as solid TRs

why?

[Datisi]

I honestly don't know. I feel like I'm in a mental facility. I do think Datisi is the ringleader, though, because he says something and it gets parroted by his minions..

this game, where pretty much nobody is listening to me and half the game wants my head? you sure we're talking about the same game here?

can you like, start saying things that are actually within this game?

[Datisi]

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

oh yeah, i forgot to elaborate on this part - like three has been doing this thing with me/dorsey (and to a lesser extent with me/looker) where he's like, oh there's scum in there, i'm scumreading both of them. okay fine. but there's not much thought as to how much does the team make sense - i did see a vague "wow maybe they're distancing" but that was quickly dismissed. yet when he was noticing that the thirst for dorsey's blood was going down and for me was going up, he started toeing the water for my yeet while still shitting on dorsey. and when i mentioned his read, he wrote those two dumpsterfires. like, i'm pretty sure he's not scum/scum with dorsey. he's looking for which townie to yeet.

[Datisi]

Go flashvagon on a50

i lowkey want to do this

i still feel like a50 is dead null but my care about this game is getting lower

[Datisi]

i want someone explaining to me the towniness in dorsey, because i don't see it

also, i don't think you responded to the requested shotgun reads…. why not?

don't get me wrong, every single post that dorsey is making makes me want to murder them (inb4

someone

jumps onto this, maybe not literally every every single one, but like, vast majority)
but three's attitude towards them felt very similar to his attitude towards me, which is a shark smelling blood and thinking he can get an ez dunk here
(while on the subject, you're free to explain to me why three is town)

i probably didn't respond to it because it wasn't interesting to respond to, let me go check

[Datisi]

1642 - yeah, this is just like, fine. andres/wiki/dwlee are generally my townreads, we're pretty much in agreement on dorsey/looker/t3, and the rest are kinda... meh reads that aren't getting the heat right now.

though obviously the situation has changed in the meantime a bit wrt to three/a50, so.

[Datisi]

i lowkey want to do this

DO IT!

is the joke that you're gonna call it a scumclaim if i vote you?

[Datisi]

i'll get the response to the rest of three's things later, i need to go for a walk

ico, if you wanna try to convince me that a50 is a better vote than three, it would be nice

[Datisi]

Also, if you want me to play the game you should take me a bit more seriously. Like, I'm doing the Slayer's gambit thing in it's most explicit version, and Scum are falling for it. You are TOWN and so is Salsa, and I will never call either of you scum in this game (I may call you stupid though, so be forewarned)

i'm taking you seriously. i might be calling you a troll (because what is slayer's other than that), but i'm aware you, like, *know* how to play the game.

i do wish you'd respond to my question on why you consider me town, though. last i remembered, you said you generally find me suspicious and have a hard time reading me. not sure if it was a scumgame or a towngame you said that in, to be fair.

[Datisi]

VOTE: T3
maybe this is the spicey wagon this game needs

ico pls
why not t3-t
why is three town

[Datisi]

also, ftr @a50, i don't think that post is completely out of my scumrange, but the reasoning makes enough sense (at least as much as i'd expect to understand your reasoning).

not quite sure why the post after makes salsa town? defending a scumread townie, or...?

[Datisi]

VOTE: T3
maybe this is the spicey wagon this game needs

ico pls
why not t3-t
why is three town

VOTE: three

sure
works as well

earlier today you said you thought it was a misunderstanding btwn the two of us
now you're voting there
why?

[Datisi]

Wow, an explosion of posts and wagon shifts to protect Datisi. That was quick. VOTE: Datisi

I jump off A50 and now all of a sudden he's scum. Datisi is the manipulator. He's also the one calling people "fucking morons" and "purposefully ignorant".

are you even reading my posts? are you even reading *the game*? yes, i'm calling people that, because they're acting like it.

[Datisi]

like, do you not get just how easy it would've been to get you killed if i was scum here? you're beyond acting like a jester at this point, and if i were scum, you'd already be dead

like all i ask of people is to turn on the brain a little bit and think

[Datisi]

i don't care enough either way
i'm not townreading three, dorsey isn't happening apparently, A50's posts make me think he's town here
T3 you pretty much gave a 'no go' instantly

so yeah this is fine

i didn't give a no-go, i asked why you're voting there instead of discussing three with me

[Datisi]

i care too much about not getting banned from the site to properly insult you

do you wanna actually play the game you signed up to play?

[Datisi]

okay bye, i'm giving myself a 3-hour timeout from this thread before i cross the line

[Datisi]

^^ that was not a response to ico, if that wasn't obvious.

[Datisi]

sup friends, i am back, i got a bowl of popcorn, let's see what we got here

[Datisi]

"i change my mind, three is scum, i will elaborate a bit later as i don't have time right now"
"wow what a wild progression"

like, you're just looking at the fact that i changed my read without even giving a shit why. so either you think i'm scum regardless of why my eead changed (which is bad) or you're jumping at the opportunity to attack me now that the dorsey wagon is dwindling down (which again, bad)

How can you actually believe I don't give a shit about why you changed your read on me? I asked how you changed your read on me so quickly with zero interaction and little content between you town reading me and then scum reading me. I asked why you think I'm scum and why you believe I spewed Dorsey as town. You're just wrong here.

What makes you think I think you're scum regardless of why your read changed? What makes you think switching votes after getting a reaction to pressure,

which I've literally been begging to happen for days now,

is scum-indicative?

i can believe it quite easily, considering your 1773 was seeing me change my read on you, immediately jumping on voting me and calling me full of shit. that doesn't sound very interested in what i have to say. though the answers to those questions should be in 1799 and 1826.

again, immediately voting me and calling me full of shit generally gives off that impression. and i'm not sure what you're referring to "switching votes when getting a reaction to pressure", but assuming you're talking about you switching from dorsey to me - that action in a vacuum is fine. the way you did it and your narrative around it is what makes it scummy. don't simplify my arguments to the point of obvious wrongness, please.

and here's the problem i have with you, like it's plainly obvious i meant "i didn't have the most recent progression on you explained yet", because that is clearly what part of my progression you're attacking in 1773

but in 1778, you're taking the literal meaning of progression as a whole (when again, not what we're talking about) and attacking *that* part of my post, despite that not being relevant and not what we're talking about

I'm not a mind reader! I am going to take things literally instead of trying to guess what somebody "really means"! I'm not going to see "I don't have a progression yet" as "I don't have an updated progression yet" because it only makes sense to me that if that's what you'd meant, you would just

say it

! I really don't think that's unreasonable that you should just say what you mean instead of leaving it up to interpretation in a game about communication! And I don't think it's fair that you're attacking me for being literal minded!

i thought i might have been confusing here, but going back to check, no, actually. you were the first one to refer to it simply as "progression". in 1773, you said "This is such a wild progression", clearly referring to me going from "leaning on town!three" to voting you. my response "i haven't had a progression on you yet" was replying to that, saying that i haven't given out my reasoning yet (so it's lowkey unfair to assume the progression is scummy etc), to which you then responded with that i have had a progression on you because i've mentioned you in my iso or whatever.

like, you were the first one to bring up a progression, and i was replying to that. it's not about you being literal minded, it's about you forgetting your own questioning

i'm feeling chiller now so it's not annoying me as much as it was earlier today, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that you kinda voted me and called my progression ~wild~ (implying it's scummy) before even hearing it

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

???

You're literally scum reading me and saying I'm attacking you for doing exactly what you're asking people to do. Maybe people don't want to deal with you because you're throwing your weight around and lashing out at anyone who dares to try to read you or argue with you?

nope, i'm scumreading and attacking you for cherrypicking and misrepping the everloving shit out of my post when you realized the thread might want to yeet me.

[Datisi]

At this point I think I know what A50 is doing (if i'm wrong then i'll look really stupid postgame )
I wasn't entirely sure if what he was doing comes from scum a50 or town a50.

Datisi thinks anyone with a read of A50 is lying basically, but somehow neglects to address this? Why?

how is that a read on A50
it literally quotes 'i have no idea from which allignment this comes'

They’re saying that now, after calling A50 Scum and saying their WIM indicates Scum and shading there repeatedly. Why is that being ignored?

same reason i'm ignoring ico and wiki and whoever else expressed a negative read on a50 (and before you ask, no i didn't call out ico for his a50 vote, i called him out for the timing of it, much different). i don't think that kind of lying necessarily comes from scum.

when i say "they're lying if they've got a read on a50", i mean that they're either lying us or lying themselves. up to that point, a50's posted nothing truly ai (at least in my experience). maybe someone sees it differently, i'm certainly not *surprised* by scumreads there, but i'm saying i don't think his behaviour is ai and they're fooling themselves if they think their read is any solid there (assuming they're town, obviously).

and re: your 1932 - that makes sense, thank you. i agree it's unlikely scum behaviour, i have seen it a few times, but sel doesn't strike me as the sort of veteran scum to do that. it's got me thinking though, if it turns out that dwlee is scum, does that increase the odds of sel being a partner who decided to distance against a townread buddy... we'll cross that bridge if we get to it i guess.

[Datisi]

I don’t buy in the least that Datisi thinks they could get you mis-executed easily and not pay any price for it.

i can guarantee you that scumtisi has never in his life once thought that.

that being said, iconeum is probably the number one threat to scum!me in this playerlist. while solo pushing town!ico to execution is something scum!me isn't suicidal enough for, you're mistaken if you think that i wouldn't try to take the opportunity to *help* get him misyeeted if others started scumreading him. hell, i've done it before.

also, inb4 anyone asks, "how do you know so well what you would do against town!ico? r u scumz?", i had a huge red streak last year, and about 2/3rds of those games had town!ico in them. so like, i know.

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?

i think it would

(:

VOTE: three

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned

I did what now? Dorsey is one of my scum reads?? You

just

said I was town ten hours prior to this, and now you're convinced that I'm scum? This is such a wild progression lmao. The more you post about me the more I just think you're full of shit.

VOTE: Datisi

And for the record, Three actually has a point here. Datisi arguing that Three nosedived because they spewed Dorsey Town really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

good thing that's not what i'm arguing. they nosedived because of the shit i went into earlier. them being scum spews dorsey town, because i don't think they're scum/scum.

[Datisi]

then like
maybe datisi

why am i a maybe? i feel like you called some bits of my posting town quite a few times recently.

[Datisi]

Datisi has voted Selynee (who I TR’ed), Three (who I TR’ed, though not strongly), Dorsey (who I also TR’ed based on the emotions I’m perceiving in their content), and geraintm (Null).

andres, why am i still getting ignored wrt this?

i can agree on you saying i'm thinking three and dorsey are scummy. i currently think three is scum, and while i currently do think dorsey is probably town, they're still acting scummy as shit and i'd be voting them no problem.

however. i voted sel at the beginning of the game. then i reevaluated her and called her town. i'm currently not thinking about voting there. why are you still dragging along my vote? i asked you if you thought something about that vote in particular was bad, or if you thought i should've been townreading her or something, no response, and you're still citing the vote as a reason to scumread me.

similar story with geraintm, i voted him when he was acting scummy, then he started acting as i know town!him, so i unvoted him, and am also not really thinking about voting there either now. not only that,

you also agreed that my reasoning against him was sound

, so why is me voting your nullread for reasoning you thought was good apparently a point against me?

[Datisi]

Which post was this explanation?

1799 and 1826.

Also, which good part of the game is not playing, as in player names?

dorsey, un to recently a50, geraintm.

Are you saying that you would've drawn a different conclusion from that information? Because, when I presented [1533] to you in conversation, all you said was "okay" and stopped talking.

here's the bad faith tone again... i'm saying that going "wow, you were on a lot of wagons, therefore you're scum" is an extremely Bad And Simplistic take that's more likely to come from scum than someone who's actually solving the game. i'm not claiming i would've townread myself because of it.

Re:Selynee - Can you elaborate on what you mean by "solvey"? Which posts of hers has made you see her as town?

i mean i think their attempts at solving the game are coming from a genuine place. cursory glance at iso, 636, 1459, 1543 are Goodposting

How are you determining which inconsistencies that appear scummy are coming from town and which are coming from scum? I ask because it came off as if you felt I was going about this all wrong.

i don't have a non-philosophical answer to this without concrete examples

like, i can bullshit something about looking for motivation but that's boring

[Datisi]

If I see that a player is acting Townier and Townier as the game goes on, to the point were people are forced to change their stances around a player, then early attempts to sideline them or push them for execution could be thought of as coming from Scum. After all, Scum want to get a mis-execution above having to execute their own Partners. It’s the same reasoning I would apply to anyone that pushed Dorsey in hindsight (particularly if Dorsey flips Town, but I have to assume it in part given my perception of the slot).

Does that make sense?

@Datisi, this paragraph is literally the explanation as to why I’m still dragging your Selynee vote despite your re-evaluation. You can be annoyed all you want, but stop repeating ad naseum I’m not responding to something when I have.

okay first of all, expecting that i'm gonna connect this paragraph as your answer to a completely different question is way too high expectations of me

on a more serious note, this feels like working backwards. like, there's no way to determine who is town who genuinely had that progression, and who is scum that went "oh shit, there goes my misyeet, better townread them". which might be the point considering you're not making a huge deal out of it, but it's like. making a lot of assumptions, when it's also possible we live in a town!sel world where no scum ever scumread her.

mind doing the one for geraintm now?

[Datisi]

my popcorn is gone

i might not get to post for the next ~24 hours because thursdays are a bitch, so if anyone has anything urgent to ask me, i suggest it be within the next hour or so

[Datisi]

not quite sure why [1801] makes salsa town? defending a scumread townie, or...?

i just remembered
@a50, you never answered this

[Datisi]

sorry to be prodging this close to deadline, but today has been very tiring and i'm going to bed. will be here as soon as my class ends tomorrow.

[Datisi]

wiki is trying to help power roles by openly discussing their target... including a hypothetical town roleblocker, who scum can extremely easily avoid if the roleblocker takes the advice. brilliant.

[Datisi]

before you try to accuse me of some sorta godforsaken scumslip, scum picks who makes the kill. there's 4 of them. your pool of 2, even if it's correct, won't do any good. stop dumb spec plsnthx.

[Datisi]

would ya look at that, i'm gone for a day and a half, and boom i'm the main wagon, curious

i sure hope wiki has a non-shit reason for voting me, though i won't put much faith into it

[Datisi]

re 2022:

so, you're digging up quotes that are pretty much from 1000 posts ago, then the one post of mine that was in response to your own read, then accusing me that i'm bringing up the same shit in a row. you're rehashing the read on me you had in 1650. my response to it was in 1728. like, you were the one who brought up the fact that i was "trying to win the argument" when i was trying to fucking sort you. i literally just responded to you bringing it up.

no, you've shown me getting annoyed at someone misreading my sorting effort. and here's again the fucking problem with you - you're trying to do the cheapest "gotcha" you can with the "so you acknowledge i'm trying to sort you? so you think i'm town" shit. like, yes i acknowledge you're writing things about what you think my alignment is (aka sorting) but i don't fucking know if it's your genuine thoughts or you're bullshitting us.

and the above ^^ is especially shitty considering it comes from the line of conversation where you claimed i don't even acknowledge the fact that you're trying to figure me out. my response was "no, i fucking acknowledged you're trying to sort me, that's what i called you town for in that post", and your immediate and only response is a shitty gotcha???

and what the hell is the rest of this paragraph? i *explained* why you were scummy. it's literally in that quoted post. yes, i called you townie for 1650. then i saw those two posts and it changed my mind. i explained why. don't pretend like it "didn't line up" just because you don't like the explanation