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[Three]

anyway can some more people towntell pls

Ok.

VOTE: Gamma

[Three]

anyway can some more people towntell pls

Ok.

VOTE: Gamma

Serious vote?

Perhaps.

I don't see why town would beg for more people to town tell on page 8, but maybe that's just me.

[Three]

What does this mean

Andre said you are townie for agression to everybody.
But when you've got additional votes, you started meow meow meow with everybody to stop elimination.
All your agression was fake, like I said earlier.

You'll explain now.

[Three]

Why the hell was that quoted? I typed in quick reply.

[Three]

Either way people love to scream "omg scummy" every time I breathe so I'd live to know your actual reasoning.

[Three]

Bad Wiki.

So Dwlee probably is town then.

[Three]

Or...explain your scum read. You can't say "I'll explain later." as if you have to leave but then still keep posting. Also, where's your vote?

[Three]

I can say easily that I'll explain later if it is not ok to discuss it now.
Btw, Andre said that he will explain later why he scumreads A50. So what? You are interested only in case about you?

Yes? You just said I was scummy. If you're just going to shit fight instead of explaining your reads then you have no value to town.

Im not voting you with "I'll explain later". Though your reaction now is really bad

Wanting to know why something is scummy is not a bad reaction. Get your head out of your ass.

[Three]

I don't see why town would beg for more people to town tell on page 8, but maybe that's just me.

why would scum do it either lol
as for why I said that, I'm trying to use my new just-about-norm strat of townblocking slots early, forming a PoE based on those TRs, and crushing the scumteam beneath my bootheels. The faster I can get at least 50% of players into my townblock, the faster I can start applying pressure to a PoE solve. I'll be honest that I

do not

expect my townblock to be solid initially, 4 scum means there's more chances for someone to take the Cabd Clause ticket, but I also think that also means there's more chances for scum to underperform

A possible scum motivation is to just simply look busy while saying townie things. I think if you want someone to town tell you'll need to drag it out of them, otherwise it's pretty easy to fake a town tell if you're just offering it up yourself as opposed to town telling through genuine reactions.

I do think your strat sounds effective though, which I think is a bit +town.

[Three]

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

...What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about either of your alignments at the time.

I feel like if you were scum then your team would be telling you to cool it by now. Almost nothing you're saying makes any sense or has any basis in reality.

[Three]

VOTE: Selynee

I think Wiki is mostly flailing. But there's a good point being made about Selynee and even he sees it.

[Three]

Not Bad

My poe was FIRE that game

I'm glad I felt a spark to play this game (mostly out of game I think but sometimes mental state mixes with a game in a good way and it's one of those days)

yeah, tone/vibewise i'm kinda feeling like you have Life and Willpower to play the game and don't really get the wagon on you

maybe i should check a dwlee scumgame at some point

IOnlyAskWhy apparently only logged in to join the game in sign ups and never came back to the site since, not even to role confirm. At least according to their profile.

[Three]

I have no idea why random posts keep getting quoted in my quick reply...

[Three]

Bad Wiki.

So Dwlee probably is town then.

...What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about either of your alignments at the time.

Where is your head now?

Dont talk to me, if you are a townie.
And your post was scummy, because you even didnt think about townie roles. Thats why.
For god sake.

And I consider you more town now because of your rude words, if you are interested. Though it is not a fair play. And I still think that you have huge overreaction on my "scummy post", but Im not a doctor to understand what is going on with you

About mafia team telling me to cool down... This is so stupid.

At the time.

Anyway, I don't really want to talk to you either, so this isn't the punishment you think it is. Implying I have mental problems because interacting with you is a pain is also just, really not cool.

[Three]

And your post was scummy, because you even didnt think about townie roles. Thats why.
For god sake.

I'm not sure what this was supposed to mean.

[Three]

VOTE: Selynee

I think Wiki is mostly flailing. But there's a good point being made about Selynee and even he sees it.

Which one?

also now that i'm caught up, i wanna point out that i hate pretty much everything that selynee has posted so far and would probably have been voting her, had wiki not been as scummy as he's being

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

[Three]

I will explain later.

++++++town for this post

"I will explain later"-type posts come from town >rand of the time

You do this as scum though?

[Three]

OK. I see.

1) Well, I give Datisi this, some players just feel my questions are "aimless". Obviously, that's not how I see them. Page 6 as basically me trying to get someone's thoughts in a post, easy to understand. That I didn't hurry up and get "reads" from it is part two- like I didn't like really liked their response to my questions (especially Wiki's) but later in-game I start to like him more due to the fact he seems fairly into scumhunting...as much as I disagree with his theories.

2) Really, need to explain that again? See 253. If I wanted to push the idea there is scum between Dwelee and Wiki, I would have said I think one of them is town and one is scum.

Why did you expect someone else to make a case here? Why didn't you bring this up or vote me before someone else did?

VOTE: Three

Because I saw what looked like a good point and I didn't like your response to it. Why do you think it's odd that other players can be convinced by another player's reads?

Is this a strictly OMGUS vote or do you actually scum read me for believing two other players' reads?

[Three]

OK. I see.

1) Well, I give Datisi this, some players just feel my questions are "aimless". Obviously, that's not how I see them. Page 6 as basically me trying to get someone's thoughts in a post, easy to understand. That I didn't hurry up and get "reads" from it is part two- like I didn't like really liked their response to my questions (especially Wiki's) but later in-game I start to like him more due to the fact he seems fairly into scumhunting...as much as I disagree with his theories.

2) Really, need to explain that again? See 253. If I wanted to push the idea there is scum between Dwelee and Wiki, I would have said I think one of them is town and one is scum.

Why did you expect someone else to make a case here? Why didn't you bring this up or vote me before someone else did?

VOTE: Three

Because I saw what looked like a good point and I didn't like your response to it. Why do you think it's odd that other players can be convinced by another player's reads?

Is this a strictly OMGUS vote or do you actually scum read me for believing two other players' reads?

Oh, don't bring the whole OMGUS thing. Nope, is cuz you didn't say anything to me directly. You waited for two other persons to make a case. I flip town, you have the perfect excuse "Oh, I was just following what these people said". Plus the argument about me saying there is scum between Dwelee and Wiki was so baseless it could be seen from an airplane.

If you don't want to be accused of OMGUS maybe you shouldn't OMGUS vote.

At what point were you expecting to flip? You're not even half way to being eliminated yet, nor are we through the first IRL day. You simply weren't in danger yet, so I'm not sure why your immediate reaction way to jump ahead to your theoretical elimination and what my response would be. You're not even considering that I could be town that's just wrong and immediately assume I'm scum in your Day 2 prophecy.

I voted you to pressure you, nothing more, and you're falling apart quickly.

[Three]

Wiki, chill.

[Three]

Imagine making an alt just to claim day cop lmao

[Three]

@Three, OMGUS doesn’t say shit about someone’s alignment btw. Town sometimes just get frustrated and vote back thinking they’re being attacked by Scum. But I do SR Selynee’s timidity and somewhat narrow focus on your slot.

I don't disagree. The OMGUS doesn't mean as much to me as the rest of her post IMO. It reads like she's trying to scare me off her wagon by acting like she was on the verge of being flipped when she wasn't anywhere close to it. The fact that she's already worried about getting eliminated suggests self-conscious scum to me, like she's mad that she's already been caught over something small and trivial.

If she's genuinely frustrated town, she needs to deal with the people casing her, not attack people who are convinced by those casing her.

[Three]

@three

, when you said there was a good point being raised against sel, whose point were you actually referring to? wiki and i brought up different things.

Because I saw what looked like a good point and I didn't like your response to it.

please don't tell me the "sel said there's scum between these two people" is the Good Point you were referring to earlier.

I was referring to your post, I wasn't liking her posts either and also thought she seemed aimless. Wiki's post was a continuation of that line of thought, and he singled out a specific thing that I agreed with.

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

That's not pushing the idea there is a scum between Dwelee and Wiki. Let me give you an example: if I see two people that don't understand each other and I think "well, if one speaks Russian, the other doesn't know Russian" what you understand is that one must be Russian?

This was the response from her that I didn't like the most. It's a really clumsy metaphor that doesn't even make sense, since it implies if someone seems scummy then they're scum. Knowing a language doesn't make you the ethnicity or race of that language, and being scummy doesn't make you mafia.

[Three]

the more i'm reading, the less i'm liking the argument between sel and three. mainly what i mean, sel is still feeling scummy to me, but something feels off about three pushing her there? i dunno. like piggybacking off of wiki's posts (which was frankly Bad) and 297 feels icky to me. like i think it's pretty natural here for someone to go "you're scum sheeping wrong!town onto me so you can hide behind them once i flip", and three is trying to twist that into some sorta scum!indicative thinking of her own possible future elimination.

three, how much mafia experience do you have?

I have enough experience.

I don't understand why you think my push feels off, Sel's thought process here just doesn't make sense to me. Not even 24 hours into the game and with only three votes on her, it would take a massive suspension of disbelief to truly believe that not only was I going to be the driving force behind her elimination, and not only am I scum fortunate enough to find two townies making bad reads on her for me to hide behind, but she also believes I'm going to death tunnel her and have my Day 2 strat all planned out weeks in advance.

It just, makes no sense to me. She doesn't even question the alignment of you or Wiki, and she doesn't question anyone who voted her after I did. T3 even made a naked vote and that somehow doesn't catch her eye?

I'm fairly certain Sel's scum read on me is fake, and the fact that you're pressuring me more than she is should be telling of that.

[Three]

@Three, OMGUS doesn’t say shit about someone’s alignment btw. Town sometimes just get frustrated and vote back thinking they’re being attacked by Scum. But I do SR Selynee’s timidity and somewhat narrow focus on your slot.

I don't disagree. The OMGUS doesn't mean as much to me as the rest of her post IMO. It reads like she's trying to scare me off her wagon by acting like she was on the verge of being flipped when she wasn't anywhere close to it. The fact that she's already worried about getting eliminated suggests self-conscious scum to me, like she's mad that she's already been caught over something small and trivial.

If she's genuinely frustrated town, she needs to deal with the people casing her, not attack people who are convinced by those casing her.

this post feels like it's made in bad faith

...Can you elaborate?

[Three]

Selynee (5) - Almost50, Three, Datisi, Iconeum T3

UNVOTE:
actually not sure how much of a fan of this wagon i am
a50 is shitposting and not really doing anything, three had that weird post towards sel that i thought was bad-faithy, and t3's hop on is weirdly out of the blue

let's try uhhh
one two seven VOTE: three

Not liking the bad-faith parroting of T3. It's a minor point, but you never said you that thought that, T3 did.

[Three]

and re: three, uh. while i agree it was a sorta clumsy metaphor, i thought "speaking russian = being russian" there? like, "if one of them speaks russian, the other one does not" doesn't imply "one of them speaks russian", just like "if one of them is scum, the other isn't" doesn't imply "one of them is scum".

obviously correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you're looking too deep into it

I don't think I'm looking too deep into it, I barely understand the point of what she's saying there and I'm kind of confused by your own interpretation of it.

re 494: the reason i ask for your experience is because the "when i flip town, you're gonna hide behind others" is a sort of non-commital thought that i see somewhat often. and usually it doesn't imply some sorta big brain calculations of one's flip and all the pushers on their slot's alignments and that the pushers have already planned it out weeks in advance, it's just a reactionary thought to a world that could be happening, and i think it's overall nai. and this is the first time i see someone take a thought like that *that* seriously.

It's more that the more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me. If she backed down or admitted her argument was silly, I'd be more likely to believe it's NAI. But she didn't, yet isn't continuing to pressure me either. Like was said before, she seems aimless and like she doesn't know what to do or how to proceed, and is just sticking her vote on me because she needs to keep it somewhere.

[Three]

"This was the response from her that I didn't like the most. It's a really clumsy metaphor that doesn't even make sense, since it implies if someone seems scummy then they're scum. Knowing a language doesn't make you the ethnicity or race of that language, and being scummy doesn't make you mafia."

It's not a methaphor is an analogy and how on Earth did you even got that meaning from it? It's obviously meaning that for all I know, they could be speaking French and German but if one was speaking Russian, given that they can't understand each other, the other can't be speaking the language. Was an analogy: me saying that claiming "if one of them is mafia, the other is not" doesn't equal me saying one of them must be mafia. OK, clumsy, but if you seem like not getting the idea in more plain language thought an analogy might help.

Hmm...I think I've explained why I didn't question that much the alignment of those who first made a read about me. Which would have been more OMGUS than me voting you with reasons. So, at least, you admit this is not.

"T3 even made a naked vote and that somehow doesn't catch her eye?"

Also, actually I've seen T3's vote on me. And asked about it. Btw, one of your arguments is that I'm mafia worried about getting eliminated. So, how is not questioning T3's naked vote going with that argument?

I'm still not sure what you mean by your metaphor/analogy to be honest.

Your explanation for why you haven't questioned those who are apparently mis-reading you feels weak to me since you're scum reading me for less.

...Are you referring to this wrt T3?

Andre said I'm washy about DW vs Wiki. Well, as I said, maybe because I don't have a clear view on Dwelee. And I'd also like to see Andre's thoughts on this slot.

VOTE: selynee

Any more thoughts on this?

There is a very blatant difference in reactions here. It just further makes me feel like your counter push on me is fake since T3's vote could be seen as legitimately oppotunistic.

Also, what's so weird about me accusing you of hiding behind two players's reads.


"Because I saw what looked like a good point and I didn't like your response to it. Why do you think it's odd that other players can be convinced by another player's reads?

Is this a strictly OMGUS vote or do you actually scum read me for believing two other players' reads?

Believing two other players's reads...not agreeing with this amazing arguments.

Because your accusation makes no sense, as I clearly have my own additional reasoning for voting you.

[Three]

"It's more that the more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me. If she backed down or admitted her argument was silly, I'd be more likely to believe it's NAI. But she didn't, yet isn't continuing to pressure me either. Like was said before, she seems aimless and like she doesn't know what to do or how to proceed, and is just sticking her vote on me because she needs to keep it somewhere."

But I obviously don't think my argument is silly. If you really think my read on you is fake why would you want me to back down? You should be the first to want me out.

What is this circular logic? Your read seems fake because it's nonsense and you didn't back down from it. Why should I be the first to want you out?

[Three]

Why not? I mean, feel free to share.

The lack of aggression here is telling.

[Three]

@Three, OMGUS doesn’t say shit about someone’s alignment btw. Town sometimes just get frustrated and vote back thinking they’re being attacked by Scum. But I do SR Selynee’s timidity and somewhat narrow focus on your slot.

I don't disagree. The OMGUS doesn't mean as much to me as the rest of her post IMO. It reads like she's trying to scare me off her wagon by acting like she was on the verge of being flipped when she wasn't anywhere close to it. The fact that she's already worried about getting eliminated suggests self-conscious scum to me, like she's mad that she's already been caught over something small and trivial.

If she's genuinely frustrated town, she needs to deal with the people casing her, not attack people who are convinced by those casing her.

this post feels like it's made in bad faith

...Can you elaborate?

You said exactly what selynee was saying but added on a part that felt manipulative, in a sense. Like you’re saying it’s her fault she’s being scumread.

Who's fault is it that she's being scum read then?

[Three]

@Three- No, I said why I didn't question them. Is that Datisi's read, while wrong, is an accusation I sometimes received. That and the fact I'm inactive. Wiki because I TR despite not agreeing with his conclusions.

The idea wasn't if I get elim or not. At that point in game, a vote means you are OK with elim-ing a person. So, that's how I take it and yes, I'll ask for reasons and see if those reasons make sense.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong? Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you? So, obviously you should want me out.

Do you town read Datisi independently of his incorrect read on you? Or did you accept his read was incorrect and just hope he didn't have scummy intent?

The vote wasn't to elim you, it was to pressure you. I've said this multiple times now.

Why are you scum claiming?

[Three]

@Three- No, I said why I didn't question them. Is that Datisi's read, while wrong, is an accusation I sometimes received. That and the fact I'm inactive. Wiki because I TR despite not agreeing with his conclusions.

The idea wasn't if I get elim or not. At that point in game, a vote means you are OK with elim-ing a person. So, that's how I take it and yes, I'll ask for reasons and see if those reasons make sense.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong? Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you? So, obviously you should want me out.

Do you town read Datisi independently of his incorrect read on you? Or did you accept his read was incorrect and just hope he didn't have scummy intent?

The vote wasn't to elim you, it was to pressure you. I've said this multiple times now.

Why are you scum claiming?

Townleaning for now. There is ony one post that I don't really love and that's the quick vote on Gera there.

Most votes are a=both to pressure and because you are OK with elim that person. Especially at that point. Especially if you are town. If you are mafia, you either wanna look busy or get an easy miselim. I just so happen to think you are the later.

Well, if you feel like I'm scum claiming, show with the class and put your effort into elim me today.

This back and forth is pointless. You keep claiming that I'm trying to eliminate you when I keep saying I was trying to pressure you. Your response to me saying "You're not in danger of being voted out." is to say "So you think I'm an easy miselim!?!" which is just full on cognitive dissonance and I'm kind of over it.

[Three]

Well, if you feel like I'm scum claiming, show with the class and put your effort into elim me today.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong? Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you? So, obviously you should want me out.

Why not? I mean, feel free to share.

I… just don’t have any more thoughts. The part where you talk about Andrea seemed designed to make it seem like you’re making discussion while pocketing Andres.

Why? All I asked at that point was his read on Dwelee. Given that he said mine was wishy washy.

But I like you think I could pocket an experienced player.

This is what I mean when I ask why you're scum claiming. You're saying that you're mafia and that you think you could pocket somebody. Why are you doing this?

[Three]

I have NO towntells. Only SCUM tells.

I think your low WIM is a scumtell. VOTE: a50

Do you think A50's WIM should be higher this early into the game?

[Three]

I don't think I'm looking too deep into it, I barely understand the point of what she's saying there and I'm kind of confused by your own interpretation of it.

i don't know how to more simply explain that saying "if one of dwlee/wiki flips scum, the other one is town"

doesn't also mean

"there is one scum in dwlee/wiki".

why would she back down? like, her argument makes perfect sense (even if it is clunkily worded) and you're the one misunderstanding the logic there.

Huh? That's not what you implied earlier.

also now that i'm caught up, i wanna point out that i hate pretty much everything that selynee has posted so far and would probably have been voting her, had wiki not been as scummy as he's being

meh, sure
VOTE: selynee

i do think sel/wiki are unlikely to be s/s (or at least, something pinged me that way back when i was reading, i forgot what by now)

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

Well, if you feel like I'm scum claiming, show with the class and put your effort into elim me today.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong? Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you? So, obviously you should want me out.

Why not? I mean, feel free to share.

I… just don’t have any more thoughts. The part where you talk about Andrea seemed designed to make it seem like you’re making discussion while pocketing Andres.

Why? All I asked at that point was his read on Dwelee. Given that he said mine was wishy washy.

But I like you think I could pocket an experienced player.

This is what I mean when I ask why you're scum claiming. You're saying that you're mafia and that you think you could pocket somebody. Why are you doing this?

that is very clearly not what she's saying

back to VOTE: three

@three

, do you have reads other than selynee?

bottom of pg 22, be back at some point.

What do you think she's saying?

I do have other reads, yes.

Can you explain the thought process behind your vote here?

[Three]

Thread activity dying out of nowhere.

@A50:

Can you explain why you voted yourself and then dipped out of the thread?

[Three]

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

like this annoys me because i never said her logic wasn't sound, she was scum *despite* because surprise, scum can make arguments that are logically sound

obviously i don't find her as scummy as i did earlier but you see my point

You literally said you hated her posts though? I'm trying to understand how you think her posts make sense but still think she's scummy.

What do you think she's saying?

I do have other reads, yes.

Can you explain the thought process behind your vote here?

oh my god

so you accused her of pocketing andres, right?

and she said that she finds it nice that you think scum!her would be able to pocket someone

and then you reply with "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!"

which (1) clearly isn't what she was saying, she was just saying your thoughts are nice and not agreeing with them, and (2) even if she was saying that, how is that a scumclaim? like, i think scum!me here would be able to pocket players like ico or t3, am i now lockscum too?

...What? I never accused her of pocketing Andres. I never accused her of pocketing anyone. She made that pocket comment towards T3, not me. And I didn't say she was lockscum either, hell, I didn't even say "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!" You're putting words in my mouth and you can easily fact check that. Everything you're accusing me of here factually did not happen.

The only thing I said was ask why she was scum claiming. I clearly interpreted it as scum claiming and asked her to clear it up, and then further explained why I saw it as scum claiming.

my thought process behind the vote is that you keep misconstructing people's arguments to the point i have a hard time believing you genuinely think what you're saying, especially since you claimed you have decent experience. and you seem to have zero reads besides sel. like it reeks of scum who is trying to appear busy by "tunneling" someone, and doing it with godawful arguments too

so what are your reads besides sel?

What argument have I misconstrued? This is the only one you could possibly argue that for and you're just wrong anyway.

I don't have "zero reads", I've already given takes.

How am I trying to appear busy or tunneling when I've been interacting with multiple people and keep getting dragged back to an argument from several hundred posts ago? I moved on yet I keep getting asked to defend my read. You can even see that I stopped talking to Sel about it before you dug it back up again, so I'm not sure what eise you want from me?

Why aren't you accusing Sel or Wiki of the same thing?

If you want a reads list you're out of luck, I don't do reads lists unless I have something actually substantial.

That

would be busy work to look town.

the "you" in the above post is obviously three, btw.

ico, wanna join me on this wagon?

also, how is that town!a50?

Hate the tone of this post. I didn't expect you to start acting this scummy over such a bad read.

[Three]

Tbf, I also didn’t get what

Sely

was saying at first using different phrases but now that I questioned her, the confusion get cleared.
Interesting fact is that, why

Three

still can't understand what she is saying where I joined late and understood her saying already.

@Three

mainly....

I understand what she's saying though? I said the metaphor was clunky and that Datisi's retelling made it more confusing.

[Three]

Tbf, I also didn’t get what

Sely

was saying at first using different phrases but now that I questioned her, the confusion get cleared.
Interesting fact is that, why

Three

still can't understand what she is saying where I joined late and understood her saying already.

@Three

mainly....

Thread activity dying out of nowhere.

@A50:

Can you explain why you voted yourself and then dipped out of the thread?

there's like

a really really obvious answer here and it's + town

i don't get the A50 pressure at all

I honestly just want to know what A50 is thinking. He hasn't really interacted much with everyone and he doesn't seem interested in the game.

[Three]

Tbf, I also didn’t get what

Sely

was saying at first using different phrases but now that I questioned her, the confusion get cleared.
Interesting fact is that, why

Three

still can't understand what she is saying where I joined late and understood her saying already.

@Three

mainly....

Thread activity dying out of nowhere.

@A50:

Can you explain why you voted yourself and then dipped out of the thread?

there's like

a really really obvious answer here and it's + town

i don't get the A50 pressure at all

U dont understand, ico

i rarely understand

explain it to me like i'm 5?

Ok, i will say it loud.
If scum fakeclaims a cop, it helps scums to find a cop bc of the reactions of players after that.
Scums wish to find a cop or any important town role to kill it ASAP.
So fakeclaiming can be easily a scum thing.
But nobody thinks about it now and some experinced players like Datisi and Ico are even pretending that this is obv town's action, not thinking about how dangerous it is. Because they probably need any arguments to pocket me, knowing my color.

Comparing with Gamma: he does think that i can be a scum only for fakeclaiming, and this is ok. But at the same time Datisi says that fakeclaing cannot be scummy. This is is not ok. He cannot be so stupid about that in my opinion.

This is the point.

He see no reasons to think that fakeclaiming is scummy because he is trying to pocket me.
If he was town, he wouldn't be so sure that fakeclaiming is not scummy. He would think about all possibilities.

Wiki, I get what you're saying here. But why can't Datisi be town who considered that you could be scum fake claiming, but then figured you were just a flailing townie?

[Three]

you sound more and more like scum who thought to have an easy misyeet on your hands, and is now caught and trying to double down on it

Who is the easy misyeet? Datisi?

[Three]

I don't see the obvious A50 town thing ico.

okay, so sell me on scum!A50? i don't see it

In my pervious games with them, they were more active as town. I don’t have scum meta on them though but they're lurking for some reason and the self vote is weird.

Meh, I think they don't really enjoy this game. Seemed like they were looking for some reactions to their self-vote, though not pushing a lot there...

Hmm can be, who do you propose to vote instead?

This feels pretty scum indicative. I don't know how you could be so lost on who to vote for that you need someone to tell you who to vote.

VOTE: Salsa

[Three]

Wiki, I get what you're saying here. But why can't Datisi be town who considered that you could be scum fake claiming, but then figured you were just a flailing townie?

strange question. ok, show me a moment when datisi considers me scum

do you think it's plausible that i (or anyone, really) am lying about being vla two days a week?

@wiki, it's cool you're responding to random votes, can you respond to actual questions?

I can.

respond to 14 then?

No.

VOTE: wiki

VOTE: Datisi
I believe in Datisi's ability to ping my towndar if town so let's see where this goes

hmm
why did you townread me for in the first place? i see the recent post saying you usually find town!me quickly, and i'm assuming 72 is a townread.

also on page 4, i don't get your iconeum scumread at all

And I don’t know when you’ve seen them roll over as Scum. I have seen something totally different. But I also had them pinned down as Scum so maybe that had something to do with it.

that's the game i was talking about earlier. i made him trip up on page ~3, he was hammered 12 hours later. so, uh. yeah.

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

kinda feel like Wiki is town already

i'mma need some elaboration on this one, chief, because he's surely not feeling like it for me

oh, 135 is a thing - disagreed on it feeling like genuine principles
like wiki's dwlee vote is feeling sorta like his earlier "suspicion" on me, which is shoving plainly nai things as basis for reads
depending on wiki's experience / skill level, this would be either +town or +scum (i feel like it's more likely to be +scum for a newbie and slightly +town for a veteran), but he's an alt and i'm not feeling too confident in his claims about experience so /shrug

and a50's shitposting is reminding me of that last game where he was scum bc i remember he was shitposting a fair bit there too
one townread, can i have one townread pls

hmm

ico, you unvoted me kinda quick

you scared?

Bad vines

?

Vibes

i get that you meant vibes, but what does that *mean*

bad vibes on me? on ico? why aren't you voting then?

You
I usually never vote someone just based on vibes.

are you allergic to actually using your words when explaining things?

bottom of page 6, be back soon-ish.

also now that i'm caught up, i wanna point out that i hate pretty much everything that selynee has posted so far and would probably have been voting her, had wiki not been as scummy as he's being

one townread, can i have one townread pls

are you not townreading me?

if not, why did you give up on the pressure? town!tisi *knows* he can corner and punish scum!ico, so if you don't townread me.... yeah

hiii ico
give me a reason you townread wiki that isn't "he's too wack to be scum"

to answer the quoted
in part because you weren't falling for fake pressure and wouldn't trip up the same way so it's pointless to fakescumread you again
in part because i did think your response was somewhat +town
in part because i wanted to see what you did if i let you off easy

so why did you say you wanna townread me if you were pinged by what andres said earlier?

pedit: this post is already outdated but answer the q anyway pls

[Three]

You asked if Datisi ever thought you were scummy. It's been clear that he's been evaluating you since the start, if nothing else you can't say there isn't progression.

[Three]

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

like this annoys me because i never said her logic wasn't sound, she was scum *despite* because surprise, scum can make arguments that are logically sound

obviously i don't find her as scummy as i did earlier but you see my point

You literally said you hated her posts though? I'm trying to understand how you think her posts make sense but still think she's scummy.

you're not serious.

yes, i said i hated her posts. because i thought they were scum!indicative for aimless questions and barebone solving.

however. she said "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other isn't". that got misrepped as "one of wiki/dwlee is scum". she then claimed that she did not say that. i can understand that her claim of "i did not say that" makes sense, because she did not say that. that doesn't make her town. the fact that she was telling the truth about her previous post doesn't make her town. you do know that scum can sometimes make posts that make sense, right?

Interesting that you're just choosing to talk down to me here.

Besides that, you're not disagreeing with me here? What is your argument?

What do you think she's saying?

I do have other reads, yes.

Can you explain the thought process behind your vote here?

oh my god

so you accused her of pocketing andres, right?

and she said that she finds it nice that you think scum!her would be able to pocket someone

and then you reply with "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!"

which (1) clearly isn't what she was saying, she was just saying your thoughts are nice and not agreeing with them, and (2) even if she was saying that, how is that a scumclaim? like, i think scum!me here would be able to pocket players like ico or t3, am i now lockscum too?

...What? I never accused her of pocketing Andres. I never accused her of pocketing anyone. She made that pocket comment towards T3, not me. And I didn't say she was lockscum either, hell, I didn't even say "aha, so you're saying you think you could pocket someone!" You're putting words in my mouth and you can easily fact check that. Everything you're accusing me of here factually did not happen.

The only thing I said was ask why she was scum claiming. I clearly interpreted it as scum claiming and asked her to clear it up, and then further explained why I saw it as scum claiming.

okay, that first bit is my mistake, i was rushing this morning and thought 521 was yours, not t3's.

doesn't defeat the rest of my point, however. 539 said "You're saying that you're mafia and that you think you could pocket somebody." i don't know how else to interpret that, considering, again, she did not say that. like, the rest of my post still applies, t3 thought she could be pocketing andres, she said it was nice t3 thought that she could be able to, and you jumped in claiming she was saying she thought that.

and like, 528 is also clearly not her claiming scum. it's a response to your 517, where you both called her read fake, and asked why should you be the one to want her out. her answer was "if you think my read is fake, then shouldn't you think i'm scum?". but you twisted it around into a scumclaim???

Ironic that you accuse me of "twisting" what her posts say but you keep refusing to quote what was actually said.

Umm...because there is only one reason my reads would be fake versus wrong?

Cuz I'm mafia pushing on you?

So, obviously you should want me out.

This looked like a scum claim, specifically the highlighted part. And I've already said this like three times now, but I asked why she's scum claiming and then had her clarify further when she said that wasn't what it is.

But I like you think I could pocket an experienced player.

This one is admittedly more my fault for misinterpreting. I'm guessing there were supposed to be commas in this, because without them I kept reading it as "But I like you, I think I could pocket an experienced player." But I think the intended meaning was "But I, like you, think I could pocket an experienced player." Which is a completely different meaning.

I do still think her read is fake though since she hasn't made any further push or made anything resembling a scum case on me.

my thought process behind the vote is that you keep misconstructing people's arguments to the point i have a hard time believing you genuinely think what you're saying, especially since you claimed you have decent experience. and you seem to have zero reads besides sel. like it reeks of scum who is trying to appear busy by "tunneling" someone, and doing it with godawful arguments too

so what are your reads besides sel?

What argument have I misconstrued? This is the only one you could possibly argue that for and you're just wrong anyway.

I don't have "zero reads", I've already given takes.

How am I trying to appear busy or tunneling when I've been interacting with multiple people and keep getting dragged back to an argument from several hundred posts ago? I moved on yet I keep getting asked to defend my read. You can even see that I stopped talking to Sel about it before you dug it back up again, so I'm not sure what eise you want from me?

Why aren't you accusing Sel or Wiki of the same thing?

sel's "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", "scumclaiming", and "saying she thinks she can pocket". and my "how can you say sel has a decent argument while still thinking she's scum?".

ok, going trough your iso.
- scumreading wiki because unexplained reads
- scumreading then townreading gamma (asking town to towntell/good strategy)
- townreading wiki bc he's probably flailing
- the scumread of sel starts
- scumreading me for parroting t3
- scumreading me for scummy reaction over The Bad Read
- and finally, scumreading salsa

like, i'm sorry, but these aren't that many takes, even if i count the very minor one (gamma) that were given off-handedly over a single post or two. like, you've given takes on 5 people so far. not enough for me to know where your head is holistically.

a different question, why did you decide to vote salsa instead of me? you found both of us scummy. (not saying you're scum for voting her.)

holy shit the pedits, i was on this for way too long.

sel's "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town"

I never "misconstrued" anything here. I guessed what she meant by it, once, days ago. Why are you so focused on this?

"scumclaiming" and "saying she thinks she can pocket"

We've been over this four times now. Holy shit.

"how can you say sel has a decent argument while still thinking she's scum?"

What about this is "misconstrued"? You're reaching hard here, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

Wait, so now you're just blatantly moving the goal posts? You accused me of having zero reads and of tunneling to look busy. I prove you wrong and you even admit you were wrong. But now the problem is that I don't have

enough

stances and reads? Why are you using logical fallacies here?

I voted Salsa because she's a lot scummier than you, I feel like this is self-explanatory. I'm still trying to evaluate whether you're actually scummy or just haphazardly posting to win an online argument.

[Three]

Thread activity dying out of nowhere.

@A50:

Can you explain why you voted yourself and then dipped out of the thread?

For you only:

I HATE IT when people use my activity to try and read me. I said it over and over again in the past: My activity has a dozen factors affecting it, and half of them are not even game-related. The other half would include the players list, and this one doesn't help me do my thing (which is troll and joke).

So, if people insist on using meta to read me, and if they insist on using the activity bit of the meta (you know meta has a lot more components that just activity level), then they should learn it the hard way. I am NOT going to defend myself over 5-6 games just because people want to be lazy and follow the wrong lead.

Andres for instance is one player who is a certified lurker, and if I used his activity level as a lead then I'd be eliminating him on D1 each and every game, because (A) Lurkers are +rand Scum (or you could rephrase it as "there's almost always a lurking Scum"), and (B) if he's not lurking then he's departing from his Town meta.

So, if Scum are pushing me and Town are falling for it then TOWN needs to be punished, and they will hopefully learn NOT to do it in the future.

IF Town is pushing me then they are handing the game to Scum, and I'm not going to fight BOTH factions over it. Again; a good lesson should be learnt.

Now if you want to find Scum you should be looking at Datisi/Wiki/Icon (probably just ONE of these is Scum, and my best guess is Datisi)

Another is in Dorsy/Ger (it's a 50-50 split for me)

I think Salsabil/Sylenee/Gamma should have the remaining 2 Scums in them

I vibed with this post a lot more than I thought I would, I kind of want to locktown you for it.

[Three]

T3 you said this makes sense (andre treads a50), now you say we should run up a50. Does "run up" mean to elim?

It doesn't matter A50's alignment. We should put him to E-1

It's this the game where everyone says weird stuff?

@T3- you have reads that are not tone based?

@Three- Again...there is no reason town would fake a read here. Especially a scum read. So, you should be the first one to want be elim here...and make a case.

PS: Your vote was terrible. Which is...interesting cuz I felt like SF was soft defending you the first part of the game

I...what? Why would I want to be the first one to be eliminated here? And I did make a case, it's gone on for several days now...

Why is my vote terrible? Her slot rolled scum. What's wrong with voting Salsa even though she soft defended me?

[Three]

I dont understand why ico is so town for all of you.
I even checked his meta in couple of games. There is a difference.
There are no reason to think ico is solid town.

What is your meta case?

[Three]

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

Uh, yeah, exactly. Pocketing and/or defending a suspicious townie is a common scum tactic.

PS: Your vote was terrible. Which is...interesting cuz I felt like SF was soft defending you the first part of the game

Yes, that's because I thought they also found difficulties to understand your thoughts like me, but now it’s seeming like they're confbiasing you, which is leading to scumread everything you'll say. But, they also said they're experienced player, so I'm not sure if they're scum for confbiasing.

What confbiasing? I scum read some posts of hers a couple days ago, I haven't said much of her other content besides that.

Salsa we both know I'm not scum and that you screwed yourself over by trying to town read me early for town credit. You're just shading me now without committing to any kind of read on me.

[Three]

I dont understand why ico is so town for all of you.
I even checked his meta in couple of games. There is a difference.
There are no reason to think ico is solid town.

What is your meta case?

More searching for scums, better reasons, more text and analysis of different options

That's...not particularly meta.

[Three]

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

Uh, yeah, exactly. Pocketing and/or defending a suspicious townie is a common scum tactic.

This is the 2nd time you're misinterpreting me, but before clear what I ACTUALLY said, are you agreeing you're scummy? Cause I was defending YOU!

???

You're literally referring to A50 in that post. My name isn't even mentioned there.

PS: Your vote was terrible. Which is...interesting cuz I felt like SF was soft defending you the first part of the game

Yes, that's because I thought they also found difficulties to understand your thoughts like me, but now it’s seeming like they're confbiasing you, which is leading to scumread everything you'll say. But, they also said they're experienced player, so I'm not sure if they're scum for confbiasing.

What confbiasing? I scum read some posts of hers a couple days ago, I haven't said much of her other content besides that.

Salsa we both know I'm not scum and that you screwed yourself over by trying to town read me early for town credit. You're just shading me now without committing to any kind of read on me.

You're talking like you know my play style.
I'm not committing any kind of reads on you because I'm not sure yet. As an EXPERIENCED player, you SHOULD know that there are 3 types of read: townread, scumread and nullread. You're my nullread atm

No I'm not? I didn't mention play style at all.

...Yes, I know that there are different kinds of reads. What does that have to do with you shading me but then refusing to commit to a read?

[Three]

I dont understand why ico is so town for all of you.
I even checked his meta in couple of games. There is a difference.
There are no reason to think ico is solid town.

What is your meta case?

More searching for scums, better reasons, more text and analysis of different options

That's...not particularly meta.

explain

Your meta case seems like it comes down to Ico not talking enough, but you're looking at completed games for reference of that. In comparison, this game is still basically just beginning.

[Three]

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

Uh, yeah, exactly. Pocketing and/or defending a suspicious townie is a common scum tactic.

This is the 2nd time you're misinterpreting me, but before clear what I ACTUALLY said, are you agreeing you're scummy? Cause I was defending YOU!

???

You're literally referring to A50 in that post. My name isn't even mentioned there.

There is the proof of your misinterpretation of my post:

A50

said scum!me is trying to pocket me and I replied sarcastically that yeah, scum!me will pocket the person who themselves in people's suspect list. What I meant there is, if scum!me want to pocket someone, that person would be the widely townread person or someone whose trust would be beneficial for scum!me. But here, people don't trust

A50

that much, so there is no point for scum!me to pocket them. And you said scum!me is trying to pocket suspicious townie as a scum tactic aka misinterpretation on Jupiter level

Can we stop with the fake misinterpretation accusations? I know what you said. I said scum still do that anyway. This is not a hard concept.

[Three]

i'm gonna shorten my response to 1012 because this game is already giving me a headache due to wiki and it's not worth it

i am disagreeing with you? or rather i'm calling you out for falsely saying i have a "contradiction" going. like, 740 asks how i can think a post she made made sense while still thinking it's scummy. i can think both, because scum sometimes tells the truth. she was telling the truth about never claiming there was scum between dwlee/wiki. that doesn't make her town.

i'm not quoting word for word (and am rather carrying over the meaning) because it's easier to make my point that way. like it seemed obvious to me that "cuz i'm mafia pushing you?" was said in a "is this not what you're thinking right now?" context.

and it's called hyperbole. yes, you obviously didn't have literally zero reads and takes this whole game. the intended meaning was always "i think you've given too little content for how you've been active", like i think it was kinda understood to mean that?

You're making it really obvious that you just don't want to admit you were wrong. Whatever.

[Three]

i'm gonna shorten my response to 1012 because this game is already giving me a headache due to wiki and it's not worth it

i am disagreeing with you? or rather i'm calling you out for falsely saying i have a "contradiction" going. like, 740 asks how i can think a post she made made sense while still thinking it's scummy. i can think both, because scum sometimes tells the truth. she was telling the truth about never claiming there was scum between dwlee/wiki. that doesn't make her town.

i'm not quoting word for word (and am rather carrying over the meaning) because it's easier to make my point that way. like it seemed obvious to me that "cuz i'm mafia pushing you?" was said in a "is this not what you're thinking right now?" context.

and it's called hyperbole. yes, you obviously didn't have literally zero reads and takes this whole game. the intended meaning was always "i think you've given too little content for how you've been active", like i think it was kinda understood to mean that?

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

>_>

that's like the entire point of whiteknighting

THANK YOU. Holy shit, I feel like I'm losing my mind.

[Three]

I'm not sure why people suddenly piled their votes onto Dorsey.

[Three]

T3 you said this makes sense (andre treads a50), now you say we should run up a50. Does "run up" mean to elim?

It doesn't matter A50's alignment. We should put him to E-1

It's this the game where everyone says weird stuff?

@T3- you have reads that are not tone based?

@Three- Again...there is no reason town would fake a read here. Especially a scum read. So, you should be the first one to want be elim here...and make a case.

PS: Your vote was terrible. Which is...interesting cuz I felt like SF was soft defending you the first part of the game

I...what? Why would I want to be the first one to be eliminated here? And I did make a case, it's gone on for several days now...

Why is my vote terrible? Her slot rolled scum. What's wrong with voting Salsa even though she soft defended me?

Want me elim. Typo

Nothing wrong with voting someone who soft defended you but I don't think you've mentioned Salsa before that vote. And "who do you propose to vote instead?" usually means "Who do you think we should elim" not "I'll vote whomever you say"

Why do I have to mention her before I vote her? There wasn't even much opportunity to, she was a late rep in who was catching up on the thread before that point. I don't have to publically state that I'm evaluating a slot before I'm allowed to vote them.

I know what Salsa said. The lack of initiative of who to vote is scummy to me, and she continues to lack initiative as she jumps from vote to vote as long as it seems like it's a popular choice or one she can get away with having little reason to pursue. She isn't pushing her scum reads and keeps voting outside of them.

[Three]

Can we please just vote Salsa here? We need to run somebody up, we're just talking in circles at this point. I don't think we're getting anywhere, and actual pressure on a scummy slot will give us something to work with.

[Three]

Why?

[Three]

But this a four scum game? Policy yeeting a flailing townie doesn't sit right with me when we only get three mislims before we lose. Salsa being a team player later doesn't mean anything if she still rolled scum.

Also, wagon pressure =/= elimination.

[Three]

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

Uh, yeah, exactly. Pocketing and/or defending a suspicious townie is a common scum tactic.

This is the 2nd time you're misinterpreting me, but before clear what I ACTUALLY said, are you agreeing you're scummy? Cause I was defending YOU!

???

You're literally referring to A50 in that post. My name isn't even mentioned there.

There is the proof of your misinterpretation of my post:

A50

said scum!me is trying to pocket me and I replied sarcastically that yeah, scum!me will pocket the person who themselves in people's suspect list. What I meant there is, if scum!me want to pocket someone, that person would be the widely townread person or someone whose trust would be beneficial for scum!me. But here, people don't trust

A50

that much, so there is no point for scum!me to pocket them. And you said scum!me is trying to pocket suspicious townie as a scum tactic aka misinterpretation on Jupiter level

Can we stop with the fake misinterpretation accusations? I know what you said. I said scum still do that anyway. This is not a hard concept.

This is my 2nd post you misinterpreted, remember the 1st one?

Not a misinterpretation.

T3 you said this makes sense (andre treads a50), now you say we should run up a50. Does "run up" mean to elim?

It doesn't matter A50's alignment. We should put him to E-1

It's this the game where everyone says weird stuff?

@T3- you have reads that are not tone based?

@Three- Again...there is no reason town would fake a read here. Especially a scum read. So, you should be the first one to want be elim here...and make a case.

PS: Your vote was terrible. Which is...interesting cuz I felt like SF was soft defending you the first part of the game

I...what? Why would I want to be the first one to be eliminated here? And I did make a case, it's gone on for several days now...

Why is my vote terrible? Her slot rolled scum. What's wrong with voting Salsa even though she soft defended me?

Want me elim. Typo

Nothing wrong with voting someone who soft defended you but I don't think you've mentioned Salsa before that vote. And "who do you propose to vote instead?" usually means "Who do you think we should elim" not "I'll vote whomever you say"

@Three

, this is the 1st post of mine you misinterpreted...
Thanks

Sely

!

This isn't even your post? This is blatant gaslighting.

Everybody, please vote this scum out of here, holy shit.

[Three]

This game is just dragging and unfun. I want something to happen.

[Three]

Sel, do you have any reads besides me? You keep questioning why people town read me, and you've parked your vote on me for several days now without doing much else to solve. I'll post a full reads list if you do, to make it fair.

[Three]

Wiki

for the love of whatever deity you worship

you ain't Cyrus are you?

I didn't want to say it, but I think he's Cyrus too.

[Three]

Can we please just vote Salsa here? We need to run somebody up, we're just talking in circles at this point. I don't think we're getting anywhere, and actual pressure on a scummy slot will give us something to work with.

what's your TL;DR on salsa?

Aimlessness on who to vote + terrible reaction to pressure + I'm pretty sure she replaced a gimmick account that can't do its gimmick in a scum slot without pissing its team mates off.

[Three]

Wiki

for the love of whatever deity you worship

you ain't Cyrus are you?

I didn't want to say it, but I think he's Cyrus too.

gottem

wanna chat a bit?

Sure, what's up?

[Three]

Wiki

for the love of whatever deity you worship

you ain't Cyrus are you?

I didn't want to say it, but I think he's Cyrus too.

Yeah, im Cyrus, this topic is closed. Ico was first who guessed. Please dont say it to anybody else out of the game

I didn't want to alt out you in the first place, so no worries there. Can you chill a bit now that we know who you are?

[Three]

Can we please just vote Salsa here? We need to run somebody up, we're just talking in circles at this point. I don't think we're getting anywhere, and actual pressure on a scummy slot will give us something to work with.

what's your TL;DR on salsa?

Aimlessness on who to vote + terrible reaction to pressure + I'm pretty sure she replaced a gimmick account that can't do its gimmick in a scum slot without pissing its team mates off.

i'm also unsure on who to persue here
didn't see terrible reaction to pressure
and the rep thing is just meh

like, the only thing i got against salsa is that i can't really find anything really townie to townbin them at this point

Do you town read/lean her then?

[Three]

Wiki

for the love of whatever deity you worship

you ain't Cyrus are you?

I didn't want to say it, but I think he's Cyrus too.

gottem

wanna chat a bit?

Sure, what's up?

i'm having trouble finding the scums
you happen to know who they are?

Not yet, no.

[Three]

i'm like

fairly sure all of wiki/wb/datisi are town but that's all i've got here

I don't know if I agree about Datisi yet, but yes Wiki and Dwlee seem town to me. Andres as well, and maybe Gamma. I feel decent enough about you as well.

[Three]

A50 can easily be either allignment here
same goes for GE i think

Oh wait, forgot I'm damn near town locking A50. He just has close to no WIM this game, at least so far.

[Three]

Do you town read/lean her then?

if i have to bin salsa somewhere, it's townlean. I think she's trying to form some kind of townblock/wagon on their scumreads even if it's a hard road. Like she's doing with GE.

I don't see it myself, but alright, it's a read.

[Three]

WIM? Help a dragon out please?

Wants It More

Basically how hard are they trying to win vs someone else.

[Three]

My problem with GE is that I feel he shoulda been more critical when sheeping Wiki's vote on me

I need to ISO dive him since I sorted him aside early on. Do you think he's being opportunistic? Is he solving?

[Three]

I don't see why town would beg for more people to town tell on page 8, but maybe that's just me.

why would scum do it either lol
as for why I said that, I'm trying to use my new just-about-norm strat of townblocking slots early, forming a PoE based on those TRs, and crushing the scumteam beneath my bootheels. The faster I can get at least 50% of players into my townblock, the faster I can start applying pressure to a PoE solve. I'll be honest that I

do not

expect my townblock to be solid initially, 4 scum means there's more chances for someone to take the Cabd Clause ticket, but I also think that also means there's more chances for scum to underperform

Realized this strat never seemed to happen.

@Gamma:

Are you still working on making this happen?

[Three]

@Three

I think Andre is town here. They come off as common sense stuff and like genuinely trying to solve stuff when they could just vote someone (like Dorsley) and be done with it. Like 869, 1213 and 1215. Like, that's no way someone would directly blame them for Dorsley getting miselim here (cuz the consensus is that he is playing badly if they are not mafia) and while wk might be a thing- I feel that would be easier to just let an easy miselim go on than trying to wk someone who barely posted.
Same for Faria. Like, they were scumreading her, made a case in 825 so post like 828 comes us genuinely trying to solve the game.

Datisi- I sort of like for the most part. Like I said, I didn't really like that vote on gera cuz it felt a bit...too easy, I guess. Like yes, his answer that they are parking the vote there after a pretty obvious fake claim was weird but didn't seem to consider what would be the motivation for maf!gera there to say that in that context. The whole conflict with Wiki doesn't seem very productive cuz I think Wiki is town...but that seem more frustration-related than anything else.

Almost is...meh. Actually, I think the most pro-town thing was trying to get reactions on his wagon but he didn't follow up.

I am still not sure about Dwelee. Not sure why maf them would want Faria to be elim so much today when she is already in a pretty bad position (aka might be elim without them getting the spotlight if she is town). Not a fan of the fact that never built a case here

Gamma- see 636. I like 815...the only thing I don't agree with is that he is proposing basically 1234. Don't agree with, doesn't mean I think it is a lot of maf motivation there.

Gera and Dorsley are somewhere between...why would mafia do this and well, they could easily be mafia going for "well, they'll think why would mafia do this"


And it's time for my daily walk outside (hoping I don't catch the virus) so I'll give my thoughts on the rest later today.

K, I wasn't killed by a serial killer in the park (just my luck) so...

Faria- Actually don't find much mafia motivation with her entry. Faking believing the claim would have been something if she could get an easy miselim (like if any of them were at E-1 or something) but none were in danger of being elim. Plus stuff like calling for a policy elim doesn't seem like coming from someone who wants to be seen as town cuz from my limited experience, this usually isn't popular.

T3- Not a fan of their progression. Not helped by the fact that he doesn't really provides much info but like 375 says Three's read is made in bad faith but votes me in 377. 521- honestly, don't get why they are only suspecting me of pocketing when the same argument can be used that you were pocketing Datisi or Wiki by agreeing with them. Also, not a fan of the progression on salsa-516- meta stuff, 936- honestly don't see what's so bad in that reaction. 956- asks about scum motivations here but doesn't insist on this. 959- agrees with Andre's case. And that's basically all. No longer question Salsa read. Seems a superficial read there.

Ico- Did I say I don't like early reads? Cuz they lack consistency- like, if you say you townread someone on page 5 and scumread them on page 25, you can easily say "Well, the first one was just early vibes, now I no longer feel the same vibes" and this can easily come from both mafia or town.
Like, I actually like 352 and 368. Feels like a genuine attempt to make sense of Wiki's fake claim. And their early points on Almost. Plus from all the reasons they could give for voting me there, don't think mafia would come with 1374

Alright, I actually really like these reads, and hunting down specific posts to support your reads is +town.

Spoiler: Reads List

TOWN

Andres- I've already made my thoughts on him clear. Very rational and logical, genuine attempts at solving, and not afraid to be combative. Overall a very strong town read.

Dwlee- I think they just town told early on by being lively and ready to play. I misread them in 2242 but tbh I really did think they were TSTBS there, here they're not actually afraid to have reads and solve alignments.

TOWN LEAN

A50- Not really doing much but I vibed hard with 767. I considered town locking him but that just seems foolish this early on into the game. Feels very different from 2242 where he was town but he could just be bored.

Ico- Early game felt weak but I wanted to let him simmer and see what he'd do over time. I like his more recent pushes, I just think he's wasting his time with Wiki.

Wiki- Probably town, I briefly considered him to be a potential Traitor just making a bunch of noise to provide cover for the scum team while guaranteeing he'd never get NK'd...but then he claimed PR for no reason. I just want him to chill if he's actually town, because he's going to get himself mislimmed if he keeps making a scene every god damn day.

NULL

Geraintm- Kinda hate that he's essentially refusing to play the game but that's apparently meta for him. It just means he can get away with it when he does roll scum though. If he doesn't start doing things Day 2 he needs to be auto-yeeted.

Sel- The reads list was genuinely townie, I'm re-evaluating your slot now and wondering if my earlier scum read on you was just wrong. I need more time to figure you out but I don't think you should ever be today's elim.

T3- Honestly, idk. I feel like I had a pretty good read on him in 2242 but lost him at the last second by trying to outguess the mod. He did scum slip hard though, so I guess he should just be sortable over time.

SCUM LEAN

Datisi- He made a lot of bad faith arguments with me and was more preoccupied with winning the argument rather than actually trying to solve my alignment. His interactions with Looker were also highly suspect, he seemed frazzled over some slight grilling and I just got bad vibes from it.

Gamma/Looker- Just as I was about to start re-evaluating Gamma, he replaced out, so that sucks. Looker's entrance is

fine

, but again, the interactions with Datisi gave me bad vibes. I strongly believe there's at least one scum between the two of them.

Dorsey- Basically just Gera but scummier. His reactions to pressure really make me want to scum lock him, it's that bad.

SCUM

Salsa- I've made my case for Salsa for awhile now, and I don't understand the hesitance to put real pressure here or why some people are even town reading her. There's nothing more to say that I haven't already said.

Are the bottom four of my list my hero solve? Eh, probably not, it's still too early to lock my reads in. I don't think a Salsa lim/pressure wagon is happening right now though, so my vote's between Dorsey and T3 as the leading wagons. Dorsey makes more sense with my reads, but Datisi is also voting him and it gives me pause. My top town reads are also on opposing wagons, so it's hard to read the better choice here based off of who's currently voting. So I guess for now I'll just go off of my own read.

VOTE: Dorsey

[Three]

Not to mention that Three has you as a top TR @DW.

Chances are, my suspicion was way off, and the Scum are knowingly avoiding you. It’s part of the reason I TR Selynee actually (they’ve expressed misgivings of your slot). It’s the sort of thing that would be a total waste coming from Scum.

This is a really good point that I hadn't thought of.

[Three]

I don't regret voting Dorsey even if they're town, it got them to talk and made people re-eval their reads. I really don't like their AtE though, I can see why Andres is town reading it, but to me it reeks of "caught for the wrong reasons". There's a massively bitter tone in their posts and they don't even seem to want to be here, but they're still playing so there's some tonal dissonance here as well.

[Three]

Spoiler: Dorsey's Vote Progression

I'm happy to be here.

VOTE: IOnlyAskWhy

You all appear to be friends
VOTE: Datisi

I sheep Wiki. You talk too much to be scum.
VOTE: Iconeum

I don't really get the hostility. I thought this was supposed to be fun.

VOTE: Andresvmb

I feel there's scum in each group [Andres/Iconeum/T3], [Three/Salsabil/Dwlee], and [Datisi/Almost50]. I'm just curious as to why some ISO's (e.g, Almost50) are overlooked. It's just a game of spam and subjective rhetoric disguised as logic, which can still be fun, but I don't see the need to church it up. The fact that anyone can be "locktown" is funny.

VOTE: Almost50

Idc, I'll vote T3. Every time I open my mouth I get attacked anyway.

VOTE: T3

Besides the T3 vote looking like self-preservation, Dorsey seems pretty vote happy despite their low post count, and doesn't have a clear agenda with where they're putting their vote.

Spoiler: A50 Progression

I don't want to vote the monkey. There's no evidence to suggest he's evil, and his personality is preferable.

Reminder for self: Finish reading posts of below players
Andres, Datisi, Gamma, Iconeum, T3, and Wiki

I feel there's scum in each group [Andres/Iconeum/T3], [Three/Salsabil/Dwlee], and [Datisi/Almost50]. I'm just curious as to why some ISO's (e.g, Almost50) are overlooked. It's just a game of spam and subjective rhetoric disguised as logic, which can still be fun, but I don't see the need to church it up. The fact that anyone can be "locktown" is funny.

VOTE: Almost50

Like monkey's last posts were videos, but whatever, idrc that much.

I think this is the only player Dorsey has had a read progression on. Interestingly, they want to eliminate A50 for the very same reason they town read him for earlier.

@Dorsey

can you explain what changed for you here?

Spoiler: Datisi Read

Who should be elimed after u, Dorsey?

Datisi

Why should we wagoon him over gera and a50? Can you expain it?

If you are so sure thst he is the scummiest here, why dont you vote him instead of Andre/T3?

Because you need me dead to believe me and this thread is a mob of rhetoric I wouldn't be too butthurt to leave. Clearly I've stumbled into the wrong place.

If I had the same amount of time as previous games, I could reference posts, but there are too many posts, multiple games, and not enough free time. And then Datisi said he didn't even disagree with me, that he just wanted more, but he's comfortable letting other players slide. And I can understand that if he's scum, but for multiple people not to see the inconsistency but to just go with that. Why would I prolong my stay in that?

Datisi protecting Almost50 and T3, Ico siding with Datisi, everyone thinking Datisi is town for zero reason.

Dorsey's most consistent read, and not one I disagree with. However, a good point is being made: Dorsey isn't voting Datisi, despite making a push here. It's possible this could be distancing, but that's just a pre-flip associative.

@Dorsey

do you want to vote Datisi? I'm willing to vote here regardless of if you are, but I want to know what you're thinking. You're claiming that everyone thinks Datisi is town, but it seems pretty clear that he's been under scrutiny for awhile now.

[Three]

three's read on me is utter bullshit because he's been called out by multiple people as misrepping, which means that maybe, *maybe* your posts are fucking confusing and it's not the rest of us that are wrong

rn i'm leaning on it being town bullshit

but it's bullshit nonetheless

Dude can you literally talk about anything other than a post from a fucking week ago? You're so focused on something that doesn't matter and you refuse to actually try to solve me. I'm trying to figure you out and you don't even acknowledge it.

Also "called out by multiple people" you mean you, who I scum read? Salsa, who I scum read and who also LIED about the misrep? Lmao. Sel is the only other one and it got clarified a week ago that what I said wasn't a misrep, it was a misunderstanding. Get the fuck over it and play the game or get limmed.

[Three]

Like we're on page 70 now and all Datisi can say is "but what about the post you made on page 20" as if that is somehow relevant at all. Especially when it got dealt with four times and that still apparently wasn't enough.

[Three]

Like we're on page 70 now and all Datisi can say is "but what about the post you made on page 20" as if that is somehow relevant at all. Especially when it got dealt with four times and that still apparently wasn't enough.

So, after page 200, page 70 contents will be bullshitted?

If we're on page 200 and somebody with their back against the wall says "but what about the post you made on page 70" after said post was already addressed and resolved multiple times, then yes, I'll consider it bullshit.

[Three]

And "who do you propose to vote instead?" usually means "Who do you think we should elim" not "I'll vote whomever you say"

@Three

, this is the 1st post of mine you misinterpreted...
Thanks

Sely

!

This isn't even your post? This is blatant gaslighting.

Everybody, please vote this scum out of here, holy shit.

I don't see the obvious A50 town thing ico.

okay, so sell me on scum!A50? i don't see it

In my pervious games with them, they were more active as town. I don’t have scum meta on them though but they're lurking for some reason and the self vote is weird.

Meh, I think they don't really enjoy this game. Seemed like they were looking for some reactions to their self-vote, though not pushing a lot there...

Hmm can be, who do you propose to vote instead?

This feels pretty scum indicative. I don't know how you could be so lost on who to vote for that you need someone to tell you who to vote.

VOTE: Salsa

I didn't LIE anything

@Three

.
What agenda you find from whatever I'm doing here exactly??

Can you please just read my posts? I'm not asking for a lot.

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

Uh, yeah, exactly. Pocketing and/or defending a suspicious townie is a common scum tactic.

This is the 2nd time you're misinterpreting me, but before clear what I ACTUALLY said, are you agreeing you're scummy? Cause I was defending YOU!

???

You're literally referring to A50 in that post. My name isn't even mentioned there.

There is the proof of your misinterpretation of my post:

A50

said scum!me is trying to pocket me and I replied sarcastically that yeah, scum!me will pocket the person who themselves in people's suspect list. What I meant there is, if scum!me want to pocket someone, that person would be the widely townread person or someone whose trust would be beneficial for scum!me. But here, people don't trust

A50

that much, so there is no point for scum!me to pocket them. And you said scum!me is trying to pocket suspicious townie as a scum tactic aka misinterpretation on Jupiter level

Can we stop with the fake misinterpretation accusations? I know what you said. I said scum still do that anyway. This is not a hard concept.

A50 why not salsa

I dunno. She tried to pocket me, didn't she? I'm glad to accept that pocket for today.

Yeah, pocket the person who also in people’s suspect list..

>_>

that's like the entire point of whiteknighting

THANK YOU. Holy shit, I feel like I'm losing my mind.

[Three]

I don't regret voting Dorsey even if they're town, it got them to talk and made people re-eval their reads. I really don't like their AtE though, I can see why Andres is town reading it, but to me it reeks of "caught for the wrong reasons". There's a massively bitter tone in their posts and they don't even seem to want to be here, but they're still playing so there's some tonal dissonance here as well.

I mean it's the fact they are still here that wouldn't make any sense for mafia!Dorsey. If they had only posted one day and disappear, could have been a case of someone who never communicated with their team. But that's not the case, so maf!them would have a team that I really doubt would be like "Good job, continue to play this way".

If they're scum I don't doubt the scum team is trying to coach him in some way. This is anecdotal, but I once had a scum buddy who was playing like Dorsey and wasn't putting in the extra effort to get out of everyone's radar, despite the team telling him to post more and play less like obvscum. Sometimes you just roll scum and can't get out of a funk, so it's not impossible that this is what's happening with Dorsey.

Playstyle and vibes aren't 100% accurate though, that's why I'm trying to get him to open up more about his thought process and why I was dissecting his ISO.

[Three]

@T3 - Post as much as possible? Isn't that why you hated Wiki?

@Three - What changed was pages went on and geraintm and I got treated differently than Almost50. And regarding my vote, one second me voting someone with no votes is a problem and now it's encouraged and I'm being shunned for not doing it - do you see how pointless this is? T3 actually had a wagon - Datisi did/still does not.

I mean, I get it, but A50 also made a post addressing his playstyle. I do understand why you voted T3 with this explanation though.

And, no, me being critical is not 'tonal dissonance'. I'm allowed to play and still be disappointed.

For me, it's that you seem demotivated to play after getting scum read and wagoned. It feels implied that you don't want to be in this game, yet you're still here.

And is the burden of proof supposed to be on me or not? Because either way I feel like I'm doing what I'm supposed to do.

Burden of proof for what? If it's for your thought process and actions, then yes, that is on you to prove and explain.

[Three]

wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?

i think it would

(:

VOTE: three

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned

I did what now? Dorsey is one of my scum reads?? You

just

said I was town ten hours prior to this, and now you're convinced that I'm scum? This is such a wild progression lmao. The more you post about me the more I just think you're full of shit.

VOTE: Datisi

[Three]

We're really at a point in this game where Datisi will call Dorsey town, then in the same breath say I'm the one who spewed that, huh

[Three]

and three, i haven't *had* a progression on you yet, because there are a few things i wanna point out and it's gonna be much easier to do on my laptop

but please, do immediately attack me for it, it's gonna look real fucking good for you later (:

Uh, how do you not have a progression on me yet? This is just blatantly false and disproven by simply hitting ctrl+f and typing my username in your ISO.

How am I immediately attacking you for it? This isn't our first interaction and I've been leaning you as scum more and more as the game's progressed. Why are you getting so heated?

[Three]

"i change my mind, three is scum, i will elaborate a bit later as i don't have time right now"
"wow what a wild progression"

like, you're just looking at the fact that i changed my read without even giving a shit why. so either you think i'm scum regardless of why my eead changed (which is bad) or you're jumping at the opportunity to attack me now that the dorsey wagon is dwindling down (which again, bad)

How can you actually believe I don't give a shit about why you changed your read on me? I asked how you changed your read on me so quickly with zero interaction and little content between you town reading me and then scum reading me. I asked why you think I'm scum and why you believe I spewed Dorsey as town. You're just wrong here.

What makes you think I think you're scum regardless of why your read changed? What makes you think switching votes after getting a reaction to pressure,

which I've literally been begging to happen for days now,

is scum-indicative?

and here's the problem i have with you, like it's plainly obvious i meant "i didn't have the most recent progression on you explained yet", because that is clearly what part of my progression you're attacking in 1773

but in 1778, you're taking the literal meaning of progression as a whole (when again, not what we're talking about) and attacking *that* part of my post, despite that not being relevant and not what we're talking about

I'm not a mind reader! I am going to take things literally instead of trying to guess what somebody "really means"! I'm not going to see "I don't have a progression yet" as "I don't have an updated progression yet" because it only makes sense to me that if that's what you'd meant, you would just

say it

! I really don't think that's unreasonable that you should just say what you mean instead of leaving it up to interpretation in a game about communication! And I don't think it's fair that you're attacking me for being literal minded!

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

???

You're literally scum reading me and saying I'm attacking you for doing exactly what you're asking people to do. Maybe people don't want to deal with you because you're throwing your weight around and lashing out at anyone who dares to try to read you or argue with you?

[Three]

three's read on me is utter bullshit because he's been called out by multiple people as misrepping, which means that maybe, *maybe* your posts are fucking confusing and it's not the rest of us that are wrong

rn i'm leaning on it being town bullshit

but it's bullshit nonetheless

Dude can you literally talk about anything other than a post from a fucking week ago? You're so focused on something that doesn't matter and you refuse to actually try to solve me. I'm trying to figure you out and you don't even acknowledge it.

Also "called out by multiple people" you mean you, who I scum read? Salsa, who I scum read and who also LIED about the misrep? Lmao. Sel is the only other one and it got clarified a week ago that what I said wasn't a misrep, it was a misunderstanding. Get the fuck over it and play the game or get limmed.

Like we're on page 70 now and all Datisi can say is "but what about the post you made on page 20" as if that is somehow relevant at all. Especially when it got dealt with four times and that still apparently wasn't enough.

*breathe in*

are you serious. you just told me that i'm not talking about anything other than a post from a week ago. after (1) i literally posted a wallpost that was talking about the posts from the past 2-3 pages, (2) in which i was responding to

your own read on me

that

you yourself brought up

in the past 2-3 pages. what, you're allowed to make reads based on posts that were a week ago, but once someone responds to that, it's suddenly all they're talking about?

also like, where in that post did you find me being so focused on a post from a week ago, or that i didn't even try to acknowledge the fact you're trying to sort me? like??? i never mentioned a specific post, i just said your case and read on me were utter nonsense. which it still is and i'm not backing down from that. and i clearly acknowledged the fact you're trying to sort me, i literally said i thought it was towny, the fuck do you think that means?

it's clear that the thread tides are turning against me, i don't think it's rocket surgery to figure that out. and these two posts can be nothing than purposefully ignorant. there's nothing else they can be. to quote 3 lines from a 25-line post and claim it's proof that week-old posts are all i'm talking about, when (1) i wasn't talking about them there, (2) i spoke about many different things in the post, and (3) i was responding to something that you yourself brought up, it's plain simple bad faith.

Spoiler: Proof that Datisi totally isn't tunneled on one exact argument

kinda feeling selynee is scummy at start of page 6, her posting so far seems like mostly aimless questions with little-to-no follow up

I didnt like the moment when she tried to push the idea, that there is 1 scum in Dwlee and Wiki. There is not enough info for that, I said that they can be a townie. She could say it as a scum hoping that both these guys will be elimed one after another, ignoring that we are not 100% sure about each other.

Btw, she wasnt first who said that, Three was the first, she continued his thought, repeated it, but he made this conclusion easy from his thoughts and was very emotional. So her post is stranger.

The only thing I need to know now is Three experienced alt or just a new player with the lack of experience? Because only in the second case I can believe he really doesnt understand and truly reacts so much...

uh, neither of them said that? i'm assuming you're talking about 208 and 213 - both of these posts are saying "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", neither is saying that there *has* to be scum between you two?

What changed that made you decide her earlier logic was more sound than you originally thought?

like this annoys me because i never said her logic wasn't sound, she was scum *despite* because surprise, scum can make arguments that are logically sound

obviously i don't find her as scummy as i did earlier but you see my point

You literally said you hated her posts though? I'm trying to understand how you think her posts make sense but still think she's scummy.

you're not serious.

yes, i said i hated her posts. because i thought they were scum!indicative for aimless questions and barebone solving.

however. she said "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other isn't". that got misrepped as "one of wiki/dwlee is scum". she then claimed that she did not say that. i can understand that her claim of "i did not say that" makes sense, because she did not say that. that doesn't make her town. the fact that she was telling the truth about her previous post doesn't make her town. you do know that scum can sometimes make posts that make sense, right?

...

sel's "if one of wiki/dwlee is scum, the other is town", "scumclaiming", and "saying she thinks she can pocket". and my "how can you say sel has a decent argument while still thinking she's scum?".

Selynee (5) - Almost50, Three, Datisi, Iconeum T3

UNVOTE:
actually not sure how much of a fan of this wagon i am
a50 is shitposting and not really doing anything, three had that weird post towards sel that i thought was bad-faithy, and t3's hop on is weirdly out of the blue

let's try uhhh
one two seven VOTE: three

and re: three, uh. while i agree it was a sorta clumsy metaphor, i thought "speaking russian = being russian" there? like, "if one of them speaks russian, the other one does not" doesn't imply "one of them speaks russian", just like "if one of them is scum, the other isn't" doesn't imply "one of them is scum".

obviously correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you're looking too deep into it

I don't think I'm looking too deep into it, I barely understand the point of what she's saying there and I'm kind of confused by your own interpretation of it.

i don't know how to more simply explain that saying "if one of dwlee/wiki flips scum, the other one is town"

doesn't also mean

"there is one scum in dwlee/wiki".

three's read on me is utter bullshit because he's been called out by multiple people as misrepping, which means that maybe, *maybe* your posts are fucking confusing and it's not the rest of us that are wrong

rn i'm leaning on it being town bullshit

but it's bullshit nonetheless

I don't know what you expect me to think when you bring up the exact same argument six damn times in a row. You've been unable to shut up about it literally all week now, so yes, I'm kind of sick of it considering I haven't ignored you and responded and clarified and dealt with it many times over. What read am I rehashing on a single post that got resolved a week ago? I'd love for you to actually quote it instead of just claiming that I'm doing it. This "no u" mentality of yours is fucking awful.

I've already shown what makes you appear to be so focused on a post from a week ago. Are you claiming that you do acknowledge that I'm trying to sort you? Because that implies you think I'm town since scum doesn't have to sort anybody. You keep saying my case and read on you is nonsense but you refuse to explain why, you just countered by attacking me and claiming I'm scum. That does nothing to challenge my read on you because you refuse to actually address anything, all you do is call me scummy and say I'm wrong and misrepping you over and over again. If you think my sorting is towny then why the fuck are you saying I'm scum anyway and voting me? It just doesn't line up.

Datisi: "The thread tides are turning against me"
Also Datisi: immediately lashes out at everyone to get them off his wagon and vote me instead

Yeah you're totally helpless and an easy target my dude. I believe you we all believe you I promise.

[Three]

I honestly don't know. I feel like I'm in a mental facility. I do think Datisi is the ringleader, though, because he says something and it gets parroted by his minions..

this game, where pretty much nobody is listening to me and half the game wants my head? you sure we're talking about the same game here?

can you like, start saying things that are actually within this game?

How can you be so out of touch with reality? You have players tripping over themselves to appease you. You convinced people to vote me/consider voting me despite me being their town read. What the fuck are you talking about?

[Three]

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

oh yeah, i forgot to elaborate on this part - like three has been doing this thing with me/dorsey (and to a lesser extent with me/looker) where he's like, oh there's scum in there, i'm scumreading both of them. okay fine. but there's not much thought as to how much does the team make sense - i did see a vague "wow maybe they're distancing" but that was quickly dismissed. yet when he was noticing that the thirst for dorsey's blood was going down and for me was going up, he started toeing the water for my yeet while still shitting on dorsey. and when i mentioned his read, he wrote those two dumpsterfires. like, i'm pretty sure he's not scum/scum with dorsey. he's looking for which townie to yeet.

Imagine complaining about me "misrepping" you, and then immediately misrepping my posts and my intentions with zero irony.

[Three]

"i change my mind, three is scum, i will elaborate a bit later as i don't have time right now"
"wow what a wild progression"

like, you're just looking at the fact that i changed my read without even giving a shit why. so either you think i'm scum regardless of why my eead changed (which is bad) or you're jumping at the opportunity to attack me now that the dorsey wagon is dwindling down (which again, bad)

How can you actually believe I don't give a shit about why you changed your read on me? I asked how you changed your read on me so quickly with zero interaction and little content between you town reading me and then scum reading me. I asked why you think I'm scum and why you believe I spewed Dorsey as town. You're just wrong here.

What makes you think I think you're scum regardless of why your read changed? What makes you think switching votes after getting a reaction to pressure,

which I've literally been begging to happen for days now,

is scum-indicative?

i can believe it quite easily, considering your 1773 was seeing me change my read on you, immediately jumping on voting me and calling me full of shit. that doesn't sound very interested in what i have to say. though the answers to those questions should be in 1799 and 1826.

again, immediately voting me and calling me full of shit generally gives off that impression. and i'm not sure what you're referring to "switching votes when getting a reaction to pressure", but assuming you're talking about you switching from dorsey to me - that action in a vacuum is fine. the way you did it and your narrative around it is what makes it scummy. don't simplify my arguments to the point of obvious wrongness, please.

Thinking you're full of shit =/= not being interested in your thought process. Stop assuming things.

I don't care that you think the "narrative" is scummy, you're literally making a narrative up here. Again, stop assuming things, your entire read is starting to look more and more like confbias at this point.

and here's the problem i have with you, like it's plainly obvious i meant "i didn't have the most recent progression on you explained yet", because that is clearly what part of my progression you're attacking in 1773

but in 1778, you're taking the literal meaning of progression as a whole (when again, not what we're talking about) and attacking *that* part of my post, despite that not being relevant and not what we're talking about

I'm not a mind reader! I am going to take things literally instead of trying to guess what somebody "really means"! I'm not going to see "I don't have a progression yet" as "I don't have an updated progression yet" because it only makes sense to me that if that's what you'd meant, you would just

say it

! I really don't think that's unreasonable that you should just say what you mean instead of leaving it up to interpretation in a game about communication! And I don't think it's fair that you're attacking me for being literal minded!

i thought i might have been confusing here, but going back to check, no, actually. you were the first one to refer to it simply as "progression". in 1773, you said "This is such a wild progression", clearly referring to me going from "leaning on town!three" to voting you. my response "i haven't had a progression on you yet" was replying to that, saying that i haven't given out my reasoning yet (so it's lowkey unfair to assume the progression is scummy etc), to which you then responded with that i have had a progression on you because i've mentioned you in my iso or whatever.

like, you were the first one to bring up a progression, and i was replying to that. it's not about you being literal minded, it's about you forgetting your own questioning

i'm feeling chiller now so it's not annoying me as much as it was earlier today, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that you kinda voted me and called my progression ~wild~ (implying it's scummy) before even hearing it

Why does it matter that I brought up progression first...? This is a serious question, why does that matter? You still used the word lmao, why is this an argument? If you meant reasoning instead of progression, then maybe you should just...say that?

How am I forgetting my own questioning? You used the word. Again, why is this an argument?

Wild =/= scummy, stop assuming things. I said it's wild because it made no sense and came out of nowhere. Don't get mad at me that you made an outlandish claim and didn't explain it.

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

???

You're literally scum reading me and saying I'm attacking you for doing exactly what you're asking people to do. Maybe people don't want to deal with you because you're throwing your weight around and lashing out at anyone who dares to try to read you or argue with you?

nope, i'm scumreading and attacking you for cherrypicking and misrepping the everloving shit out of my post when you realized the thread might want to yeet me.

Didn't happen, and it doesn't make it true just because you keep saying it. Thanks for just ignoring the point I made to throw more shade and lie though.

[Three]

Datisi I genuinely hope I just caught you and that you're not actually this hypocritical and out of touch with reality as town. If you're scum then I understand that you have to do whatever you can to avoid getting eliminated and push mislims forward at any cost. But if this really is your town play then I'm sorry, but I'm likely avoiding future games with you from this point forward. At this point, Wiki is less of a drag to deal with than you.

[Three]

How about roleblocking looker? What do you think, a50?
He tries so hard. Im not sure he wants be roleblocked.

Or maybe dwlee?

Ok, roleblocking Looker/Dwlee sounds good.

Wtf? Why are you claiming role blocker?

[Three]

Can't wait for Datisi to step in and wall post about how I just misrepped Wiki.

[Three]

Missed it by that much.

[Three]

So when I discuss who is better to be checked by a cop - is this a cop claim?
And when I discuss who is better to be roleblocked - is this a roleblocker claim?
No no and no.
This is just a discussion and trying to help different possible prs.

I don't think suggesting who PRs should target is a good idea, it gives scum time to plan around town's predicted actions.

[Three]

wiki is trying to help power roles by openly discussing their target... including a hypothetical town roleblocker, who scum can extremely easily avoid if the roleblocker takes the advice. brilliant.

i need to know the name of the gambit that wiki is running

Open wolf gambit.

[Three]

VOTE: Three
U dont like me playing against t3, who tries to elim you, do you?

What? Nothing I said had anything to do with T3.

I don't like that you're trying to direct PRs and announce to the scum team what they should prepare for. You're either being scum read or begrudgingly town read by the entire player list, yet you think town should trust you to dictate everyone's night actions? You know nobody wants to listen to you, let alone do what you tell them to do, so you should know that your "suggestions" are just harmful to town.

I've theorized before that you could possibly just be a Traitor trying to make noise and act TSTBS to provide cover for the scum team. Now it looks like you're trying to signal to the scum team what to prepare for tonight. You're either scum or bad town, and for 90% of today I've figured you were just the latter. But you're continuing to do things that are blatantly harmful to town.

[Three]

Somebody mentioned that Wiki has voted and accused the entire player list of being scum. Is it possible Wiki is just pushing everyone with the intention of trying to get town to claim PRs to save themselves?

[Three]

VOTE: Three
U dont like me playing against t3, who tries to elim you, do you?

What? Nothing I said had anything to do with T3.

I don't like that you're trying to direct PRs and announce to the scum team what they should prepare for. You're either being scum read or begrudgingly town read by the entire player list, yet you think town should trust you to dictate everyone's night actions? You know nobody wants to listen to you, let alone do what you tell them to do, so you should know that your "suggestions" are just harmful to town.

I've theorized before that you could possibly just be a Traitor trying to make noise and act TSTBS to provide cover for the scum team. Now it looks like you're trying to signal to the scum team what to prepare for tonight. You're either scum or bad town, and for 90% of today I've figured you were just the latter. But you're continuing to do things that are blatantly harmful to town.

if you are town, you just dont know how to play. Zero experience.

Do you actually think optimal experienced town play is to tell the scum team exactly what the town PRs are doing?

Searching for a possible traitor on day 1 LMAO

Did you forget this is a 4-scum 13-player set up?

[Three]

Somebody mentioned that Wiki has voted and accused the entire player list of being scum. Is it possible Wiki is just pushing everyone with the intention of trying to get town to claim PRs to save themselves?

does that actually happen though?

Are you asking if it's possible?

Three if sely,datisi,salsa and me are all townies (and maybe dorsey) you've played only against townies in this game. You'd better to be a scum for your reputation.

You hard accused more than four players. Wtf are you talking about?

T3 tries to elim you with all cost.
I scumread him.
And you are saying about my open wolfing.
How should I understand this? As protection of t3 obviously. And you are thinking about dam traitor sh from nowhere in your head with no any healthy logic.

This post hurts my head.

[Three]

Yes.

[Three]

like does scum really play that fast and loose

They absolutely can. Just because it doesn't usually happen doesn't mean it can't happen. If you ever rule out a possibility for scum, then they'll always be able to do whatever they want and get away with it if you just hand wave it away as "scum doesn't ever do that".

Do you see a town motivation for signaling to the scum team what to prepare for wrt PR night actions? Do you see a town motivation for accusing the entire player list of being scum and then claiming PR unprovoked?

[Three]

Are you seriously scum reading me because I didn't impulsively counter scum read T3?

Salsa, it's ok, I know you rolled scum but nobody wants to vote you, pushing my mislim just ensures you go tomorrow.

[Three]

Are you seriously scum reading me because I didn't impulsively counter scum read T3?

yes

Bad Wiki. Go to bad player jail.

[Three]

Do you all want to know the final nail in the coffin for why Salsa is scum? Besides everything else I already said? Because town!Salsa is impulsive and self-destructive. Town!Salsa has good reads but almost zero nuance. Town!Salsa would literally rather drop the game or self-vote and crash and burn than deal with pressure from town, not power through it like she's been doing all game.

Town!Salsa isn't bad, but she naturally comes off as scummy because she gets paranoid and annoyed when people don't listen to her or scum read her. Scum!Salsa is otherwise very controlled, very thorough and precise, and very very townie looking because she can be 100% confident with whatever she says due to not actually having to second guess her self or her reads.

[Three]

I don't know what E-x I'm at but whatever, I'm about to go to bed and somebody might quick hammer before I wake up. I'm VT. Now stop throwing and vote actual scum. If you think scum plays the way I have i.e. not giving a shit about how I'm perceived and pressuring commonly town read players, you might want to reconsider what you think scumminess actually looks like.

I want to vote within my scum reads + Wiki. Geraintm and T3 are useless flips since they have low content and low progression respectively. If either are scum then cool, but I don't fucking know that, and you're kidding yourself if you think either of them have made themselves readable enough to figure that out today.

[Three]

Do you all want to know the final nail in the coffin for why Salsa is scum? Besides everything else I already said? Because town!Salsa is impulsive and self-destructive. Town!Salsa has good reads but almost zero nuance. Town!Salsa would literally rather drop the game or self-vote and crash and burn than deal with pressure from town, not power through it like she's been doing all game.

Town!Salsa isn't bad, but she naturally comes off as scummy because she gets paranoid and annoyed when people don't listen to her or scum read her. Scum!Salsa is otherwise very controlled, very thorough and precise, and very very townie looking because she can be 100% confident with whatever she says due to not actually having to second guess her self or her reads.

i dont trust metareading

YOU LITERALLY META'D ICO!

[Three]

u think looker and salsa are together?
if no, gamma said not to elim salsa today
you think smth like sely,looker,salsa?
sely townreads gamma and salsa a bit
ppl townread sely
i dont think sely is a scum

Reads lists aren't hero solves. Jesus Christ.

Also Sel went up to null for me, I don't want to vote her today.

[Three]

I don't know what E-x I'm at but whatever, I'm about to go to bed and somebody might quick hammer before I wake up. I'm VT. Now stop throwing and vote actual scum. If you think scum plays the way I have i.e. not giving a shit about how I'm perceived and pressuring commonly town read players, you might want to reconsider what you think scumminess actually looks like.

I want to vote within my scum reads + Wiki. Geraintm and T3 are useless flips since they have low content and low progression respectively. If either are scum then cool, but I don't fucking know that, and you're kidding yourself if you think either of them have made themselves readable enough to figure that out today.

there's like 3 or whatever votes on you...

I just counted, I think I'm at E-2 and my slot is being considered by other players as well. There is a good chance I'm put at E-1 or accidentally quick hammered before I even wake up at the rate we're going, especially since we never managed to get a real wagon going all of Day 1.

[Three]

sely is town for you
she said dont touch looker and salsa

ico is town for you
he said dont touch datisi

you either vote dorsey, or need to think about t3 and other options.
i dont understand how you can nullread t3 who decided to elim you today in the end of the day, and there are no evidence t3 can be a townie (maybe only dwlee protects t3, nobody else).
from your pov t3 should be suspicious af

yeah, you have some good posts, so i dont vote you, but i have no idea how to townread you and how to protect you

i wont be crying for elimination a man, who is searching for a traitor on day 1

Why is it that the only possible scenario is that I'm incorrect about all of my reads and everyone else is 100% correct about their reads?

I already said there isn't evidence that T3 is town. I don't have a handle on his slot. His decision to try to elim me is obviously wrong and misguided, but it also isn't alignment indicative, maybe opportunistic at best.

Yet Salsa's vote is the same, she explicitly said that she didn't scum read me yet she still voted me after Dorsey's wagon died and mine gained momentum. Datisi scum read me for moving my vote after Dorsey's wagon lost steam (apparently I'm supposed to just park my vote on his town reads?). Why isn't it opportunistic for Salsa, yet T3 is supposed to look super suspicious to me?

[Three]

three, if you are not experienced player and town, maybe start listening to people who are townies for you?

I am, our reads are conflicting.

one of the simpliest way to play this game - is to find 1-2 townies and TO WORK TOGETHER, or just to sheep them

You aren't working together with ANYONE! You've accused everyone of being scum! Stop with the holier than thou attitude already.

[Three]

three, if you are not experienced player and town, maybe start listening to people who are townies for you?

I am, our reads are conflicting.

one of the simpliest way to play this game - is to find 1-2 townies and TO WORK TOGETHER, or just to sheep them

You aren't working together with ANYONE! You've accused everyone of being scum! Stop with the holier than thou attitude already.

Wait wtf, my town reads don't all conflict. Dwlee still believes Salsa is scum and Andres is just as unsure and conflicted about T3 as I am. I just got gaslit lmao.

[Three]

Oh I am at three votes.

My bad.

[Three]

You aren't working together with ANYONE! You've accused everyone of being scum! Stop with the holier than thou attitude already.

this is not true. i started doing this in my latest posts.

Wiki you have over 500 posts. I don't care that your latest posts showed an attempt at team work when your first 500 posts were the complete opposite.

[Three]

I don't have time to respond to everything, but Datisi every time you complain about being the leading wagon everyone just votes me to appease you. Stop with the victim complex already.

The votes on me are very bad and I'm getting votes by people who town read me. What the fuck.

[Three]

Unfortunately guys I am having a bit of a medical issue (nothing serious) so I can’t say whether I’ll be able to read much today.

I have re-read Three’s ISO and I’m thinking that’s possibly where I might have to end up. I hate having to admit this and I don’t want to get into too much of a conversation right now about it since I have a headache, but Three has perhaps been a bit narrow in their pursuits in a way that perhaps I’m choosing to ignore.

Frankly I think this game is hard. I don’t have anything I would be confident executing, and I started feeling better about T3 though I can’t quite explain it. Something about acknowledging that my reasons weren’t idiotic I just found disarming.

How am I been "narrow"? I've been questioning and evaluating so many slots in the game.

[Three]

Is this seriously another fucking game where scum says "please don't lim me" and then town flash wagons an obvtown slot again

[Three]

I'm never going to understand this site meta. Punish townies who scum hunt and protect scum who act polite. Fucking bonkers mind set.

[Three]

How am I been "narrow"? I've been questioning and evaluating so many slots in the game.

This is not true.
I've just checked, there are some people you didnt talk with at all the whole game.
This is a bad answer

So many =/= all.

This game is actual hell.

[Three]

This is proven wrong by hitting ctrl+F and looking up their names in my ISO, but ok.

[Three]

I'm skimming Datisi's shit push on me and I'm just baffled. He's accusing me of being hypocritical and using old posts to repeat an argument...by quoting posts as evidence that Datisi has been repeating the same argument. Evidence is scummy now. Holy shit.

[Three]

And correct me if im wrong... u didnt speak with T3 at all??
He made a huge case against u... repeating after Datisi...
That was my main reason why you are suspicious to me. And tgats why u can be with T3.

Why are you lying?

Sorry, u talked with t3, i saw it wrong

Dude. Stop accusing me of shit without fact checking first.

[Three]

I know for a fact that I spoke with and actively evaluated Dwlee.

[Three]

why does scum!three claim VT but not PR?

to not be suspected for claiming pr

YOU LITERALLY CLAIMED PR AND LIVED!

[Three]

Can you stop cherrypicking my ISO?

VOTE: Wiki

[Three]

I don't respond to threats from scum.

[Three]

I think nobody cares, Three wants it, attacking his allies

You're not my ally and I'm getting voted by my town reads.

[Three]

I'M JAILER

[Three]

Sel you just plummeted in my reads again.

[Three]

I'm so fucking tired of getting shit pushed, I can't even use my PR because town has the funkiest criteria for what's scummy that I've ever seen!

[Three]

You claimed VT...

Fine, fine, I'll play by the rules

UNVOTE: Three

I can't imagine why a scum read town PR would claim VT. It's almost like I was trying to be EFFECTIVE tonight.

[Three]

I dont trust you because of this. If you are townie PR you understand, that voting Wiki you are risking to get Wiki's vote to you because of that. Moreover Wiki was town lean for you and with no reason Wiki became scum for you, for protecting you.

Can you stop cherrypicking my ISO?

VOTE: Wiki

I'm not allowed to vote scum??? You've been trying to bully me into voting T3, why the hell would I do what you say?

[Three]

Wiki can you shut the fuck up? Can you please shut the fuck up?

[Three]

Jailkeeper, whatever. You know what I mean.

[Three]

Why would scum vote the person threatening to put them at E-1? Hello

[Three]

Three, why didnt I hammer you if I am a scum?

Because quick hammering a townie who got labeled as an obvious mislim by two other players would make you look scummy as fuck?

[Three]

If you are real JK, congratulations, u ruined the game voting me. 2 fuckin claims. For what fucking reason? No reason at all. In this case u dont know how to play at all, asking your allies to elim you playing for pr.

YOU CLAIMED PR DAYS AGO

STOP GASLIGHTING

[Three]

Where is he now? He just lurkes, hiding in mafia chat, planning what to do with new info. He is mafia scum. Hammer him under my responsability.

I'm working and posting at breaks.

[Three]

Where is he now? He just lurkes, hiding in mafia chat, planning what to do with new info. He is mafia scum. Hammer him under my responsability.

I'm losing my mind here. Wiki either claim or shut the fuck up. You already fake claimed a Day Cop guilty on Dwlee, saying you can CC me but then refusing to actually CC is dumb.

[Three]

Why does a protective role claim PR unprovoked?

[Three]

Answer my god damn question Wiki. Why did you claim PR days ago and what specific role are you claiming?

[Three]

Wiki refusing to answer while also bragging about spamming the thread with over 25 pages worth of posts. Wow.

[Three]

Mine.

[Three]

Or...we vote the player who fake claimed twice, faked a CC, spammed the thread, and sowed discord and chaos by accusing everyone of being scum throughout the entirety of Day 1.

[Three]

See? This scum thinks not about a town win, but about a top post on page. Typical mafia

Might actually put this in my sig, it's hard to believe somebody actually typed this and possibly meant it.

[Three]

Salsa, why are you so desperate to mislim? You claimed multiple times that you don't scum read me, and I claimed town PR.

[Three]

Didn't you think I'm scum?

Wiki

cc you, who is obvtown...

Exactly, I do think you're scum.

Wiki "CC'd" me without actually claiming anything. That isn't a CC. What makes Wiki obvtown?

[Three]

Then why ask such question:

Salsa, why are you so desperate to mislim?

Scum!

Wiki

is doing what exactly? Or his scum partners are letting him go like this for what possible reason??

Is it odd to you that someone would want to question their scum reads?

I've already gone over what ever the hell Wiki is doing. I doubted he could be scum earlier because he was acting TSTBS. But at this point he's fake claimed twice, stretched out Day 1 to 100 pages by hyper posting, accused everyone of being scum, and overall just made today a chaotic mess to try to parse. Yet people STILL don't want to vote him out. Why would the scum team tell him to knock it off when whatever he's doing is clearly working?

[Three]

Now, I'll ask again. Try not to dodge the question this time.

What makes Wiki obvtown?

[Three]

That's not a reason to call someone obvtown. That isn't even a read. If I hyper posted and accused everyone of being scum, would you town lock me for life?

[Three]

If you can't justify a read then it isn't a real read.

[Three]

Sshhhh, go back to bed Wiki.

[Three]

oh and three, about what you said in the game. i was scum so obviously a lot of my arguments were exaggerated for exaggeration sake, but i do partly believe in what i was pushing, that is that a lot of your posts were confusing and could've easily been taken as bad faith. i can't tell for sure what i would've as town, but it's possible i would've done the same thing. so with that said, if you want to avoid me going forward, i'll respect that.

You were just playing the game so there's nothing to be mad about in that regard. There was just such a massive disconnect between what you were saying and what was actually happening + all of the blatant manipulation that was going on, yet with everyone so adamant that you were town despite that, it made me think that if you genuinely were town that you were impossible to work with while town was just fine with that and even encouraging it.

With the context that you were scum though, I don't think our arguments ever happen to begin with. The Dwlee/Wiki thing was overblown and Salsa's misrep accusation was just wrong (and T3 actually misrepped her and got away with it!)

Lowkey this was just a cult game but town recruited themselves lol.

[Three]

I will say though, I didn't expect to root for Dorsey/Salsa/Enchant at the end, but man they almost pulled through.