Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Critter]

HEY EV3RY !! IT'S ME!! EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE [[Mafiascummer2016]]
GAMME
GAMMA EMERALD!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

VOTE: Dunnstral
HE'S SCUM THIS GAME, []

!!

ANYWAY, IT'S TIME FOR A [[Questionnaire]], COURTESY OF YOUR FAVRITE [[Gameshow Host]], GAMMA EMERALD. DON'T WORRY, THESE QUESTIONS ARE DEFINITELY NOT BEING USED FOR TARGETED ADVERTISING LATER!

1. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE [[Movie/Color/Ice Cream]]?? YOU'RE WELCOME TO ANSWER [[all/any/none]] OF THIS PART!!
   
2. WHAT'S A ROLE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN A MAFIA GAME YET THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE? OR , WHAT'S A ROLE YOU'VE PLAYED BEFORE BUT WANT TO TRY TO PLAY BETTER SOMETIME>
   
3. WHAT DO YOU FEEL LIKE IS YOUR GREATEST STRENTH/WEAKNESS AS [[Town/Scum]]??
   
4. OUT OF THIS PLAYERLIST, WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE IN 3P LIMLO WITH AS EITHER ALIGNMENT?

AS A TOKEN OF GOOD FIATH, I AM GIVING MY OWN ANSWERS AS WELL!!

• MOVIE: [Zombieland]
  COLOR: BLUE
  ICE CREAM: MINT CHOCOLATE
  
• I WOULD HONESTLY LIKE TO BE A CULT LEADER ONCE,
  
• I THINK AS TOWN I'M PRETTY SOLID WITH NARROWING SCUM DOWN, WHILST AS SCUM I HAVE A BIT OF A KNACK FOR CAUSING CHAOS THAT HELPS MY TEAM REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I SURVIVE
  
• AS A NAME BRAND [Town] I’D PROBABLY TAKE [Dunnstral] AND [Wisdom], AS THEY SEEM THE MOST RELIABLE AND READABLE. AS AN OFF BRAND I’D LIKELY TAKE STRANGEMATTER AND TOOGELOO, AS THEY SEEM LIKE THE LEAST PROBABLE ONES TO BECOME TOWN BY PLAY OVER TIME.

Movie I dunno I don’t watch movies. Critical Role is my favorite long running stream though.
Color: If I have to pick Purple but rainbow is more my bag.
Ice Cream: Vanilla I know how bland.
Role I’d like to play/play better: Traitor
Strength as town: Unpredictability
Weakness as town: Unpredictability/stubbornness
Strength as scum: Manipulation
Weakness as scum: cockiness/boredom

Players I would like in elo:
Town me: Dunn and you. I lot of people are hard to read for me but I think an elo with you and Dunn would be pretty quick.
Scum me: Hard to decide. Generally I don’t play scum for a final three in elo and I feel if you’re picking players over the road map/narrative it’s not good scumming.

[Critter]

Brain train!

[Critter]

You know, I figured I’d get more reactions to my RQS than I have so far, maybe people just don’t care when I do it anymore.
I am curious why Critter thinks Dunn is an easy read though.

Because he is. Lmao. I don’t want to out my alt yet but I think my record reading him is good compared to other players. Some players are easier reads to me than others.

[Critter]

How much do you like to use meta?

I don’t but sometimes it smacks you in the face so hard you’re like “Ouch!” and then try to figure out how to heal that obvious door that smacked you in the head.

[Critter]

Well there goes my first guess for who you were lol

I would say stop trying to hunt who I am and judge me for what I bring to the table. Did your question about who I would bring to elo help sort my alignment for you?

[Critter]

Eh that’s probably a wait-and-see thing, I’m skeptical of people who say they can read me without proper receipts, not as in I think they’re scum but just that I have a lot of people profess to know my play that actually don’t know shit about it, but I’ll see how you approach reading me here and make a call as to whether you’re full of it when you do so and give a substantial reason for it.
I’m not gonna share the answer key for pretty much as long as I can get away with it but I have certain expectations for how different alignments will react to RQS and other oddball openers. That’s why I’m dismayed it got met with indifference this game.

Let’s just say I am a once you know you know type of dude. I think if I am right people are going to start dissecting each and every little thing almost too much so just in order to get some voting going. I hate RVS with a passion and want out of it as much as possible for that reason. This game seems pretty quiet compared to most and not just your questions. A good chunk of posters in the game here tend to be in the rapid fire quick snippy posts. I am shocked I could watch a bit of YouTube and see like almost no posts. It’s refreshing.

[Critter]

I've never had a Mt.Dew or any of it's offshoots. I did have a Mellow Yellow 30ish years ago after watching Days of Thunder. The only things I know about Pepsi Products is that Mt.Dew hard carries their brand, and Taco Bell has to remind me that they serve Sierra Mist and not Sprite.

I prefer Arnold Palmers if I need caffeine.

VOTE: Toog Semiserious

[Critter]

It's time to get an avatar for starters

Wisdom is prolly like town for this because I didn’t have an avatar and he never called me out for it and he was scum that game.

[Critter]

I’m assuming you’ve read some games of mine given you’re not saying you expect to find me confusing?

It’s technically tomorrow, I guess. That counts, right?

No, I have no use for meta I wasn’t a participant for. Players unknown to me are players for whom I have no expectations. Anything is possible.

Also, for whichever head of the Norky (Pooraa? Norpoo?) hydra that was: I refuse to be a part of any religious establishment unless it is for the sole purpose of driving a joke into the ground while everyone around me says “oh pleas make it stop I repent”. I have learned nothing but I swear it won’t happen again.

Not even a worshipper of the Wild Mother? Sounds fine to me. Long as you’re happy there’s always being a servant of the Traveler I suppose. Seems like the Traveler might be more up your alley anyway.

It's time to get an avatar for starters

Wisdom is prolly like town for this because I didn’t have an avatar and he never called me out for it and he was scum that game.

Critter is prolly like town for this because this kind of high level analysis can only come from a town player

I like your jokey response. Not sure if it’s a serious one but I like your sense of humor.

[Critter]

From the OP: “ This setup is a flavored low-complexity game for 13 players and is explicitly guaranteed to feature 10 town-aligned players and 3 mafia.”

I have two questions here for LLD:
1) Are you 100% sure? There’s something nagging me about this but I can’t put my finger on it.
2) If 1) is true are you sure this is the right course? Going back and forth like this doesn’t benefit town. Instead it might be good to see who Dunn pushes and what Dunn does.

We need to see how the game interacts as a whole.

Now for Dunn:
Can you give a list of town reads and scumreads so far?

[Critter]

Apologies if this has been asked my insects are going everywhere.

If what LLD says is true, as I don’t think she does what she did as scum,
Then the problem I have is I also don’t see Dunn claiming something that would make him obviously scum either.

Dunn tends to be a reserved quiet player and uninfluential as scum. Code Red claiming seems to be rather attention seeking whatever it is.
This is a conflict.
Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

More of these reads will come out as more people post which is why I don’t want Dunn/LLD clogging the game with a ton of posts. It’s clear LLD thinks Dunn is scum for role related reasons and therefore unlikely to change her mind. Whatever LLD’s alignment Dunn has to go with she is mistaken or scum. I think what is valuable is who does what where.

[Critter]

Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

This makes basically no sense to me

Dunn’s scum meta is to blend in. It’s not “Hey look at how amazingly town I am” or hyperpost the thread. It’s cool and collected. This going away from it and going “I am code red” seriously is a departure.

That means either he is town or he is departing from that and wanting attention intentionally like rolefishing or trying to break meta or some reason I can’t think of.

Based on this departure from his meta you can get reads from how people respond to that departure since a lot of people here have played with Dunn before.

[Critter]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36175

Here is an example where he was Knight Beige. He was focused on leaving warm fuzzies with people.

So I am going to shut up and see how people respond. Because I think it will be telling for Dunn’s LLD’s and a few people’s alignments.

[Critter]

Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

This makes basically no sense to me

I see a missing logical conclusion. Namely, more people seem to be saying Dunn is town than not (which is based admittedly on an exaggerated reading of the thread), which logically closes off Dunn being scum.

What makes this a problem is the lack of commitment to Dunn not being scum, and not finishing the thought. That's a technique I use to manipulate people, and its a common way to manipulate people in general -- you leave an open hole. People think it through, sensing something unsaid, reach the conclusion on their own, and that sticks better than if the speaker had just come out and said it to start with. Furthermore, the people who come to that conclusion will be more likely to believe they came up with it by themselves, allowing the person speaking to dodge responsibility.

VOTE: Critter

Let's see if anyone comes to the conclusion I have, and if they see how I did it. Note: don't just assume the obvious option for what conclusion I've come to.

I mean, yes, I have not drawn a conclusion either way, this is true. One can say I am rather indecisive. But I have been consistently working away from snap judgments. I won’t make a decision on anyone until I feel I can definitely say so.

[Critter]

Secondly, there’s nothing to finish.

If Dunn is town is LLD scum? Maybe? Maybe not? LLD could be gambiting or just going off her gut.
If Dunn is scum is LLD town? Maybe? Maybe not? LLD could be gambiting because Dunn was like “oh shit scum again”.

I won’t rush to a conclusion until things boil. That’s why I said expect. Not certain.

[Critter]

I don't have any issue with what you're saying in 114, although I think the meta deviation thing is a little overblown in general; he flavor claimed. It's...seriously within the realm of basically anyone's play given the right circumstances.

I'm having a harder time how you're getting the positive or negative interactions between other players and dunn based on dunn's own alignment, some of which have to obviously not know his alignment beforehand and evaluate it based on their interpretations of all of this. I think a town player could potentially come to either conclusion right here is what I'm saying.

There’s certain interactions I look for as TVS or SVT or similarly aligned. I don’t think there’s enough here to make a determination either way on alignment. Those who defend a person who have been accused (I don’t want to say guiltied as I don’t know) combined with the meta shift tend to be of similar alignment. Always? No.

I use those foundations to build reads. Combine it with who a person wants to elim now sans nuance and you can get a clear picture of who scum is.

It’s weird and takes a while to develop but it works for me.

Pedit: I am not? I don’t really have an argument for what I am not doing.

[Critter]

I am not? I don’t really have an argument for what I am not doing.

Fair enough.

Still waiting to see if anyone figures out what I've decided.

I find it interesting you have a decision when I am almost written in stone to be indecisive. I think this is Townie but if I am wrong you’re probably scum with Gamma or Dunn. This also completely ignores the Dunn/LLD discussion and is more just annoying.

My guess is since you’re voting me if you’re town you think Dunn/LLD is TvT and if you’re scum you don’t want to vote in Dunn/LLD making it likely TVS or SVT.

So if I have to guess you’re town or it’s you + Dunn.

[Critter]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

If you can answer this without exposing who you’re waiting on please do.

How does waiting on someone else’s opinion mean you vote me?

I don’t follow.

[Critter]

Those who defend a person who have been accused (I don’t want to say guiltied as I don’t know) combined with the meta shift tend to be of similar alignment.

I mean if that's just a general principle you hold then i can see how you got here but i guess i really don't think things are really ever this simple. I think the fact that you made 121 weakens what you were (i think) getting at in 111 which is making me question why you made 111 in the first place.

I don't really feel going further on this is going to help me read you so i'm keen to drop it unless you have anything else to clarify on it.

No I don’t and I am busy with other things. I think general principles are great ways to start things off but am trying not to go with a black and white mentality. That’s why there’s words like expect. It gives me enough to begin.

[Critter]

A bold statement. But you aren't whose take I'm waiting on.

If you can answer this without exposing who you’re waiting on please do.

How does waiting on someone else’s opinion mean you vote me?

I don’t follow.

You don’t need to follow.

I’ve said it in my other games and I’ll say it again: I bring an alien mindset and manipulative town playstyle to the table in a Mafia game. You’re just seeing that in practice. It is, perhaps, cruel in your eyes to put pressure on you and suggest there is nothing you can do to sway me, that you are at the whims of other things (be it people or statements or times) and you don’t even know what they are. I could apologize, but I don’t think it would be helpful. Perhaps even counterproductive. Maybe a lie.

Also, consider that there might not be a specific “who” I’m waiting on, only that you are not it. That might also be an intentionally misleading statement. You don’t know. That’s the point.

PEDIT: Something_Smart, I’m also showing my hand while I’m doing it. My hand is, admittedly, draped in smoke and mirrors, but that’s par for the course.

As my friend Roger would say, “This is all normal, Billy”.

It’s not about defense for me. I know I am fine. I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive. If you view me as scum then you should be pushing me as such and explaining why so we can see other people’s reactions and then use that as leverage. Here it’s just a weird “you’re indecisive so you’re scum”. I am well aware of this being a team game and planned on just listening. I am not sure what you’re getting at.

[Critter]

Yeah, I suppose it's fine as long as you explain it eventually.

Whose response exactly are you waiting for?

That would be telling. Maybe it’s yours, right now, and I’m just playing out the game I’ve set.

Maybe it’s no one’s and I’ve actually lied in order to force this sort of engagement, and I’ll play it off like I had a plan all along when I get something worth picking at.

And maybe I’m watching the players outside of the two 1v1s to see which they gravitate to weighing in on, making hidden judgement calls on that basis, and building a map of where to hit.

Or none of the above. Again, you do not know. That’s the point.

I work best in the midst of chaos. A side effect of being a Discordian, maybe. Chaos has arrived, tis the season of Aftermath. Now the work begins, and I can’t very well do my best if I clear everything up for you, now can I?

Let it be noted I hate this. I have been working extremely hard to not hyperpost and not be in conflict immediately and you doing manipulative stuff (your words) makes me really wonder what Townie mindset there is for this. Has anyone played with her before to speak to this?

[Critter]

I wouldn’t say cruel either, just counter productive.

I’ll just stop you here.

If you don’t know what my aim is, how can you say it’s counterproductive?

Because towns should be working together and saying what they think and what they don’t. This whole “maybe I think one way or another” is vague. It doesn’t help ascertain if you’re town doing this or you’re scum and just want an out when your push on me fails. The reactions if you’re town are therefore tainted from the initial push being weird.

[Critter]

Like imagine if I went “haha my reads all were fake. Cabd Penguin and (list mod here) are the scum team”. Beyond the fact that the mods aren’t scum by definition, it throws everything I said earlier into question.

I much prefer to be as honest as possible for that reason.

[Critter]

Take something smart for example, it becomes harder to tell if Something Smart is opportunistic scum or if you’re just scum who can’t fake a Townie mindset so why bother.

[Critter]

Like one of Smart/Matter could be scum for hopping on right away and ignoring the current dilemma but those reads are tainted.

[Critter]

Take something smart for example, it becomes harder to tell if Something Smart is opportunistic scum or if you’re just scum who can’t fake a Townie mindset so why bother.

I’m honest, usually. I rarely outright lie, but if I just say “I’m not lying” I can’t get the appropriate range of reactions.

This response you’re giving is very instructive on your alignment, for instance, and I wasn’t even expecting I’d be able to get this sort of content out of you in a parseable form. Not because I know something about you (I don’t) but because I tend to be blind to the true alignment of the other side of my 1v1s (as I’ve learned the hard way quite often).

There is always something else going on, when it comes to my play.

Also, I don’t think those reads are tainted. I’m waiting for useful information on StrangeMatter still, still a bit vanilla responses on that end, but I think I have a handle on Something_Smart. Not enough to build a whole read on, but a fairly informed opinion that can turn into a read pretty quickly.

So what exactly is this 1v1 about? I would rather get back to sorting Dunn and LLD because I think it’s important we sort there ASAP. I don’t want that to sit and fester. I want to sort their alignments ASAP.

[Critter]

Because I am not voting you so like by definition it’s not?

[Critter]

I’m watching Dunn and LLD closely too. I haven’t forgotten them or tried to bury them.

But don’t you think it’s more informative to have two sources of tension than one? To see what one draws what people? To see how they are allowed to evolve and grow, or abandoned to the dustbin of the thread?

I’ll be able to make a move there tonight, when one or both of Dunn and LLD has posted again. For now it’s you, me and anyone who cares to weigh in.

I think sources of tension are informative when they are authentic. It’s hard to determine who is authentic and who isn’t and I am predisposed to anyone suspecting me being scum (which I am trying to shake) so I don’t find “manipulative” (your words maybe strategic) fights as helpful if helpful at all.

I don’t ever abandon anything that’s one of my “quirks”. I can get being subversive but I have a harder time differentiating that. So I guess it’s more of a selfish thing. Less subversive undercurrent easier to find town and therefore easier to find scum.

[Critter]

Now the work begins, and I can’t very well do my best if I clear everything up for you, now can I?

I'm glad your efforts are the only ones that matter then

VOTE: Something Smart

Serious vote. I don’t like what M is doing that doesn’t mean she’s being the only one that matters. There’s a difference between not liking it and this.

[Critter]

That’s bait, Critter.

How so?

[Critter]

Basically I can tell he’s being sarcastic

Oh no. I think you misunderstand me. I am saying he’s scum because it’s sarcastic. I read it like Valley Girl tone of “Guess you’re the only person who reads matter”. It’s a put down to M while subtly agreeing that something I did was scummy.

[Critter]

Tells me if Somwthing Smart is scum M is almost certainly town.

[Critter]

Therefore if anyone townreads Dunn I would expect those players to be of similar alignment. Eg if Dunn is town, person townreading Dunn is town and if Dunn scum person scum.

I'm not sure I'm following the part of this where if Dunn is scum, then the person townreading then is also scum and there isn't the possibility that town's made mistakes in townreading, especially when I know I've made mistakes like that before as Town where I trust the wrong person. I also don't see how if he flips green how the people townreading him are also town.

This kind of feels like scum trying set up a play, not sure exactly but definitely something I want to keep in mind if Dunn ever flips.

I mixed you up with StrangeMatter both S names my bad.

[Critter]

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

[Critter]

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

Look at the time stamps, I'm not sure I've gone 5 minutes without either being asked to explain something or accused of something. I've been under barrage this whole time without having even read the game or really

done anything

yet.

And there it is, unprompted.

I'm really confident on Dunn flipping scum today. This answer instead of just giving other thoughts is... yeah.

No, I don't typically get this standoffish as scum, Critter is seemed to have a good idea of my meta earlier (except for some games like Isekai Upick where my goal was to get townread early)

I didn't say I wasn't going to give other thoughts, I said I haven't had a chance to, and showed why. Taking it as an excuse for me to not ever give thoughts is extremely uncharitable.

I feel like I'm playing nothing like I do as scum, I'm not sure why you're honing in on me so hard.

I don’t know if this is true. You weren’t really pushed in the game I linked. MathBlade just exploded on you. Instead of responding in this manner would you please answer what I asked?

[Critter]

VOTE: Dunn Critical Role in 20 people! Out until tomorrow. So “Is it Thursday yet?” Hell yes!

[Critter]

This game is hard to follow for me for some reason but Dunn does not look like the scum Dunn I know at all

You and I know very different scum Dunn’s then.

[Critter]

Critter

what did critter do between 166 and now, 166 seemed like a townread on critter?

-b

You should always have eyes on your friendly insects. It’s good to be paranoid of me. I am just the weird automaton who says weird stuff but loves everyone <3

Btw Mush might be scum sads

[Critter]

Welp.

Calling Dunn flipping red. Regardless of flip, I also like the bears for scum right now.

Eyes on Critter, Something_Smart, StrangeMatter.

Meant to quote this lmao

[Critter]

Welp.

Calling Dunn flipping red. Regardless of flip, I also like the bears for scum right now.

Eyes on Critter, Something_Smart, StrangeMatter.

agreed the bears are prolly scum, most likely not for the reasons you have tho

Why do you feel like you’re buddying me? What are your reasons?

[Critter]

And mush isn’t bears they’re some weird avatar?

Bears + Gamma?

[Critter]

Welp.

Calling Dunn flipping red. Regardless of flip, I also like the bears for scum right now.

Eyes on Critter, Something_Smart, StrangeMatter.

agreed the bears are prolly scum, most likely not for the reasons you have tho

Then what are you agreeing with here? I think this is where the train derailed? There’s no mention of Milk/Mocha and the only other person here is Mush?

[Critter]

Welp.

Calling Dunn flipping red. Regardless of flip, I also like the bears for scum right now.

Eyes on Critter, Something_Smart, StrangeMatter.

agreed the bears are prolly scum, most likely not for the reasons you have tho

Then what are you agreeing with here? I think this is where the train derailed? There’s no mention of Milk/Mocha and the only other person here is Mush?

Mush and Gamma both reference Bears to mean Milk and Mocha, because those characters are bears andbecause one half of the Hydra is PookyTheMagicalBear.

I can’t read. Whoops.

[Critter]

Welp.

Calling Dunn flipping red. Regardless of flip, I also like the bears for scum right now.

Eyes on Critter, Something_Smart, StrangeMatter.

agreed the bears are prolly scum, most likely not for the reasons you have tho

Then what are you agreeing with here? I think this is where the train derailed? There’s no mention of Milk/Mocha and the only other person here is Mush?

“I also like the bears for scum right now”
Try reading.

Harsh but fair. Deserved.

[Critter]

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

[Critter]

Aso Toog can you explain your read on me?

My opinion is that LLD saw she had IC and could barely contain herself, looking for literally anything to pick a fight just so she could go, "Hah!"

There's literally nothing in her claim to suggest scum Dunn, she just needs the bravado to sell it.

I'm so tired of you. Get over yourself. I confidently misread you in one game and now you're taking every opportunity to insult my intelligence. Are you just trying to bait me to get angry? Or is this just not giving a shit about how others feel?

I'm asking you to stop being a jerk and play the game.

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

Why are you focused on the ic though?

How is this nuanced Towelie?

[Critter]

Eyes where you like.

I have not avoided the LLD/Dunn issue as my vote is on Dunn and am sorting those who disagree. I am indeed interacting with other slots. Please do keep an eye on me. I think you’ll end up liking what you see the more you look at me. What players did I “put a spotlight on?” I have been pushing Dunn to give reads and the rest is corollary.

[Critter]

If I were a cop and could check one person's alignment tonight, who should I check?

this is for everyone, even if they aren't LLD

A lurker if the elimmed person is scum.
Someone who is a null read on wagon if the person elimmed is town.

[Critter]

Also, as ever, I have other reasons I have no intention of revealing at this time. I'll remind the list that my vote is on StrangeMatter and move forward.

You have no reason to be this secretive, this feels performative.

Now, moving from that, I find it funny that Critter was accusing me of drawing attention away from Dunnstral vs LLD (note: those two were not active at that time!) when I was gathering player reactions, but appeared to be doing the same thing here as regards Toogeloo vs LLD, while those two were in fact active. There's another component too, the good ol' "let's you and them fight", pitting me as scum vs. innocent StrangeMatter while maintaining a distance from the interaction themselves. Note the distinction of drawing attention to myself and another player during a lull then, versus Critter placing the spotlight on two other players while remaining conveniently outside of the beam in the middle of an ongoing back and forth most recently.

My eye remains on you, Critter. This time, it's all on you that this happened, not a misunderstanding of what happened in the thread.

Apologies, I just doublechecked and it appears I confused you and Dunnstral, who is absolutely shining a spotlight on me and StrangeMatter while avoiding the beam. Incredibly weird mistake to make too, because you didn't have any spotlight on you at all and you didn't even mention StrangeMatter. I got no excuse at all, my brain just flubbed it.

A misunderstanding of this level doesn't really make sense. At the very least, it doesn't feel like you are giving Critter/Myself a fair shake, it feels like you already know what opinion you want to have.

Also, 337 is incorrect, I'm not avoiding anything or shining a spotlight on StrangeMatter

Fos: MUSHSHAGANA

Why is Mush scum for this and I am not getting an FoS from you?

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

I think Kyo is scum more than Dunn

VOTE: Kyo

[Critter]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

I disagree. Up until that vote Kyo still hasn’t given a read. Seems very performative to be responding in the game then randomly go backwards and pick a post. This is something scum me does. It’s NAI at best.

[Critter]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

I imagine despite how boneheaded she is as town, she’d actually fact-check things as scum

It’s not a matter of not fact checking. It’s plausible deniability, especially if Dunn is town. If Dunn is town she’s off it so she looks better but hasn’t given a read.

[Critter]

Meh. It's +town but not conclusive. Funny though.

i'm probably here too

i also still think town gamma still being thirsty town

-b

I want to see Kyo give a read before I consider that.

[Critter]

Why is Mush scum for this and I am not getting an FoS from you?

How does that relate to you?

Because I made the exact mistake but almost comically worse when I got told to like erm read?

[Critter]

{Dunn, Milk, Mush, Towlie, Gamma} = town

I don’t really see what you’re talking about with most of these reads. Can you expand please?

[Critter]

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

[Critter]

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

Thoughts yes. Reads no.

[Critter]

That was a legit read and not intended as an insult.

But she’s confirmed town, why do you give a shit about her motivations?

Because she is an IC, people will be more inclined to sheep instead of think for themselves. LLD isn't a follower, and people will take advantage of that, and she needs to be told when she is probably wrong, or at least have a devil's advocate to open up other possibilities.

Assume that I am wrong and Dunn is town. Why hasn’t he given reads? This reads more like you don’t like LLD’s playstyle vs a scummy motivation here. The only thing he’s done that’s memorable is attack you which means you’re more than likely town if Dunn is scum. If Dunn is town he really needs to start re-reading the game and give thoughts. Dude can’t make up his mind more than me which says a lot.

This feels slightly out of touch. Dunn's started posting thoughts already at this point and Critter is latched to a previous gamestate and using it to perpetuate shade on Dunn.

Thoughts yes. Reads no.

What is the difference? Are you asking me to format it like a list?

The difference is you never took a stance. You used phrases like “unusual” without indicating if you townread or scumread the player in question at that time. Easy way to go “aha! I was right that was unusual” if they flip scum but if they flip town you can go “hmmm they were unusual must have been an off game”. I hate wishy washy posts like that. You posted thoughts not reads.

[Critter]

Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

the what
Toog was scummier than Kyouko

Toog was not. Toog was very townie. That argument with LLD seemed really genuine. I had Toog as top tier town before Kyo reppd in.

[Critter]

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

Implying toog had cred, that slot was cringe. I'm not sold on SM being scum from a first read, I believe english is not his first language and that he's relatively new to forum mafia. Actually strikes me as a potentially easy mislim for scum so I'm suspicious of vague pushes on them at this point. There are plenty of players under the radar so far, and the focus on SM feels like it could be telling.

You’re Toog? And yes Toog had cred. I didn’t think scum would provoke until you came in being all scummy like and going whoa.

[Critter]

You really have no opinions beside Toog? On anything?

I asked for opinions aka reads/stances. Not something like “unusual” which is not an opinion/read/stance. It’s something if I want to look up I can.

Why are you nitpicking what is an obvious point?

[Critter]

Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

the what
Toog was scummier than Kyouko

Toog was not. Toog was very townie. That argument with LLD seemed really genuine. I had Toog as top tier town before Kyo reppd in.

Disagree conpletely, Toog felt like scum from beginning to replace out and thats why my vote isnt moving

Cool agree to disagree. We agree Kyo is scummy.

[Critter]

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

[Critter]

"id sheep a wagon on x" is considered pushing?

Let me answer this since I am the person who said it. I don’t consider it pushing directly. It’s more of a “I like the vibes so could be scum but I want to sort here”.

[Critter]

I’d say yes
Not in a strong sense, mind, but it does apply some pressure IMO

Semantics. It's expressing support, but I wouldn't consider it a push.

This. I support the wagon.

[Critter]

Another random thing to note is English is my first and only language, so that’s a very odd assumption, and saying I’m new to forum Mafia is untrue fmpov, but that’s probably semantics (I know people who have been playing for years call a person who’s a couple months old in a game new), when I’ve been here for months. And it’s really weird since someone could easily look at my past games for either of these. I’m still just completely left wondering why they’re going through these efforts, especially as scum though??

Definitely want to talk more then.

okay weird, I definitely read some of your other games' ISOs recently and could have sworn you mentioned a language issue, and most of your ego was newbies so I assumed you were new and ESL from the general clunkiness of your posts

Whatever your alignment please don’t assume someone is ESL from “clunkiness”. It could be a different way of upbringing, being on the spectrum, or just being different. Unless the clunkiness directly relates to alignment who cares? I prefer my posts a bit “clunkier” than most. StrangeMatter is scummy due to having no concrete opinion statements at this point in the game there’s a lot to comment on and they haven’t.

[Critter]

Not getting much out of me today, just a quick catchup post.

Dunn's still scum. Not letting that one go.

Critter, I also want to sort SM, but with so little to go on there's too much noise. I need more data, which means more content. If I'm just squashing the slot under pressure, something will eventually come out. Or they halt, catch fire and fall into the dead thread early on, which is a totally preventable disease under these circumstances so I am incapable of feeling guilty about it.

Wisdom, I don't have the time to give you the back and forth you need to be sortable. I have too much RL shit for the next day or so. Someone else who has time can smash you for content, and I'll make up my mind on you later. And if no one decides to do it, I'll need to push you myself, sure. But I don't want to be the dumbass who carries town on content extraction, then pushes green early and loses all credibility. No, I want to blow all my credibility on one big left-field push later in the game, you know?

But there's another way. Produce content of your own accord and I won't need to squash you to extract it. Then no one else needs to sprain their pinkies, and you remain push-free -- it's just sensible procedure.

Wisdom has content? Not sure what this is.

[Critter]

I don’t follow what you’re saying. To me Wisdom has content. Sure it’s short but you don’t get novels from Wisdom.

[Critter]

Critter, I also want to sort SM, but with so little to go on there's too much noise. I need more data, which means more content.

If I'm just squashing the slot under pressure

, something will eventually come out. Or they halt, catch fire and fall into the dead thread early on, which is a totally preventable disease under these circumstances so I am incapable of feeling guilty about it.

What do you even mean by pressure??? The only thing you're doing is voting, which I know that questions and voting are two different forms of pressure, but of the two right now, one I would consider being more useful. Because right now, it feels like you, Wisdom, and Critter are doing nothing in actual terms of pressure.

If you want to squeeze content out of someone, you better make sure you're actually doing it and not faking it like what it feels like now.

To be fair this is correct. I am mostly fishing for reactions to hunt. I do not have a top scumread right now. I more have a “would elim” group.

[Critter]

LLD, my recommendation for today is that we eliminate Milk & Mocha. I think Pooky is playing to scum meta, and Noraa is playing to scum meta. At least, they should not be allowed to post as they currently are in thread unchecked. They still haven't explained why they are scumreading me.

This is hilarious. No lmao.

[Critter]

I do not have a top scumread right now.

Huh.

I said what I said. I am strapped in on I am not leading a wagon town and with my observation lenses all my eight spider eyes in scum hunt mode. When I am confident I’ll throw some webs down.

[Critter]

Hmmm yes pushing a claimed cop D1 is Townie. (This is sarcasm)
I don’t like this posting.

[Critter]

The explicit claim is confusing though, which with what I know, is almost a sure sign it’s fake.

How is flavor cop confusing exactly? And how do you “know” anything?

[Critter]

Now now critter, no guessing. that is naughty naughty

I am not guessing. *confused spider eyes look at you*

[Critter]

So you’re saying your alignment is jester? Doubt it. This was advertised as a low-complexity game, jester goes against that imo.
VOTE: Milk and Mocha

This is dumb. Jester is bastard. Pooky’s trolling lmao.

[Critter]

Ok actually it won't be randomized. But it might be sort of meme-y. Ok its kind of hard to explain. We be flavored cop. Mountain dew flavored Jester cop.

This seems clear to me *shrugs*

And don’t worry Noraa I don’t specialize in pockets as any alignment.

Pedit: then this sorts itself out. Give everyone a chance to act and see who is left at the end of it.

[Critter]

But I claimed jester cop! Not flava cop

Uh huh do your thing flavor jester cop. I will just try to sit here trying to find the words, erasing, fixing them with whiteout, then finally going “meh this is decent” four hours later or something.

[Critter]

Uh huh

You don't believe me?

I think you’re saying something that is anti town to pursue further and I townread the actions/gambit you’re doing so I am more like “whatever”.

[Critter]

stop claiming

This damn it:/

Omg.

[Critter]

VOTE: Mush Yes it’s random and no I won’t explain right now. Come enjoy web logic.

[Critter]

Not random*

[Critter]

This setup is a flavored low-complexity game for 13 players and is explicitly guaranteed to feature 10 town-aligned players and 3 mafia.

Can we like not? Take a second, chill and breathe.

[Critter]

stop claiming

No. My role is basically a meme anyway, probably based on stuff from the end of the TENET LT, and I had little faith I could get a guilty through my night action, so counterclaiming scum was basically the best I could hope for.

You should have definitely not claimed and just voted for them without bringing attention to your own role, which I think is stronger than you are giving credit

This and I think Pooky/Noraa and Gamma are both town even with the explicit claim from Gamma so…let’s not and let’s do Mush Dunn or a lurker please

[Critter]

Mush wagon sounding good I think. All aboard?

[Critter]

Mush wagon please?

[Critter]

Mush wagon please?

No. In fact, I’m starting to think you’re scum because both the people you’re trying to push look like town rn.

Then think it. I think you’re both town and there’s something Mush said that pings me the more I think about it but it’s anti town to explain so I am just gonna sit here on Mush. Y’all can keep arguing “I am the best” at each other which isn’t constructive or vote somewhere else. Only reason I vote either of you is to prevent no elim.

[Critter]

I'm up early so I can put some time into this today. Later tonight, forget it. Tomorrow ought to be spotty but well-rounded for me, and I should have time from then on (Sundays excepted).

Out of this situation, I think the bear pair looks just as scummy as before they tried this weird troll-claim shit, but Gamma looks like he's trying to copy LLD's burn-down of Dunn's slot earlier in the game. Either this game and playerlist lend themselves to repetition or it's some transparent scum play -- look for what works and repeat.

I don't think this is SvS, though, and I don't think it's TvT. I think these two slots are opposite in alignment, but from the flow of conversation I have a hard time telling who's scum and who's town. I'm inclined to say the bears are more scummy right now, but I might be letting an inertial bias affect that (I townread Gamma previously and scumread the bears).


I find Critter pushing me the way I push SM very funny. It'll get results more quickly from me, though, because I have nothing to hide. What did you see, Critter? I don't need your own words, though if you want to provide them instead I'm cool with that. What /post/, even? Because I am absolutely certain you're latching onto me being clever with words or a playstyle thing that everyone familiar with me will say "yeah, that's about right for her town play". I'm happy to break whatever you want down for you.

And then, after that, I'll let StrangeMatter go and start juicing you instead. Have you read Death Curse? You should have read Death Curse. Instead, I guess I'll recreate it in realtime, with you playing the part of Zdenek/Fred. You already had my attention, now you're running a contextless push on me, and that makes you my new favorite hobby.

No. As I said it’s antitown to say in case I am wrong. I am okay with your wagon not going through then for today. If I die then susses on you. I don’t think I die over 1-2 cop claims and a macho IC so I have time to convince people and see if my thought is accurate.

[Critter]

To be clear I also have no interest in reading a different game to sort you. This game is a different game and therefore you are a different role unless you have the exact same role with the same teammates or lack thereof. There are some things that carry over but those involve mannerisms, not scenarios. This seems like grandstanding.

[Critter]

Parity vanilla cop is almost always exclusively town btw. For the sheer reason if given to scum the parity is not necessary except for fake claims. Scum would be able to use parity cop to find PRs or not PRs based on one target being a buddy then just claim they visited the townie. This means if Gamma is scum it’s most likely predetermined and not a parity cop which is like not happening.

Pooky was clearly trying to eat a nightkill with that claim trying to give LLD another day.

Can y’all quit being pissed at each other and scum hunt?

K thanks bye!

[Critter]

Why did Pooky never mention he meant to eat a NK in our debate then? His whole defense was "we're trolling"

Trolling to eat a NK.

VT going “Hey I am a cop who should we check?” Is trolling by definition.

[Critter]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.urband ... g&amp=true

They’re trying to get a rise out of scum to shoot them but since you CC’d it didn’t work.

Jester is obviously fake as game isn’t bastard.
So cop part clearly is too.

[Critter]

UNVOTE:
Whatever, but if scum!Pooky ends up pulling this out again I'm never letting y'all live this fucking game down

Cool. If you still think I am wrong, parity check them with LLD. If you get PR I will eat my words and then be all *use eight eyes to stare death glare at Pooky*

But let’s hunt some scum.

[Critter]

Would elim pool
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Something_Smart
StrangeMatter
Kyo

Would elim but would probably flip VT
Pooky/Noraa

If wrong on Pooky would elim list
Wisdom

Yes this is most of the game
No this is not ordered
Yes I am okay with this

[Critter]

So you’re saying your alignment is jester? Doubt it. This was advertised as a low-complexity game, jester goes against that imo.
VOTE: Milk and Mocha

This is dumb. Jester is bastard. Pooky’s trolling lmao.

*confused spider eyes look at you*

shit that sounds really adorable. calling for backup, pooky shield me from the pocket!!

2 scum here I think

Lmao good luck with that. This looks more like who you want dead versus a reads list. Mush/Kyo looking more and more like a thing.

[Critter]

I do not have a top scumread right now.

Huh.

I said what I said. I am strapped in on I am not leading a wagon town and with my observation lenses all my eight spider eyes in scum hunt mode. When I am confident I’ll throw some webs down.

Not what I said. If I don’t want to play I wouldn’t be here.
I didn’t want to lead a wagon and draw attention but well…stuff happened.

[Critter]

Rn I feel like my preference is in Wisdom, Critter, EMMI, M&M

As a good friend of mine would say, rule of three, Wisdom who is the scum in this list?

[Critter]

Something_Silent, I know you're usually like this but you seem to have even less to work with than usual this game. Am I wrong to assume this, and if not, why is that the case?

Mostly just RL distraction, if I'm being honest. Bunch of cool things that aren't mafia popped up at the same time.

Like I said I'm open to suggestions for specific things to look at.

Dunn’s opening
Bears v Gamma
Kyo’s replace in

All three of those are a good start

[Critter]

This day has gone on far far too long

VOTE: Kyo

[Critter]

If by "Kyo's replace in" Critter meant 421, I already talked about that as well, but rereading it I do additionally think ssbm/Dunn is unlikely.

Neither of those things really gave me much. But I should be able to poke around and find some things to get me into the game today.

I meant general events that should contribute to reads. Not any specific post

[Critter]

I didn't really find anything else noteworthy. Obviously the replace itself is not alignment indicative.

Do you have any read lists/walls that can help me get a vibe?

[Critter]

A vibe on what?

You. I am having trouble sorting you so I was hoping a read list or wall would help

[Critter]

I think you can do a reads wall/list and keep the nuance. Please.

[Critter]

Earlier page tops have been converted to proper vote counts. No prods as you are all very active busy bees!

I am the only insect here! LLD I think M&M is town and struggle with words why. Are you sure you want to push M&M? I will lend my vote if you need it but I think it was just an attempt to draw the NK going horribly wrong.

[Critter]

Critter personally how did you get to 430 froom ssbm's opening, it's not super clear from your ISO

-b

I was responding in the moment. Will reread those posts to get that mindset just a moment.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

It’s hard to explain but I hate this post. If you want to bookmark it.
Combine it with unprompted flavor claim and it feels icky.

[Critter]

What’s mollifying?

Pedit I mean you can try lol. I will find words later. I am more like some sodas in that I need to freeze in the fridge for a bit. I will grow on you.

[Critter]

What’s mollifying?

Pedit I mean you can try lol. I will find words later. I am more like some sodas in that I need to freeze in the fridge for a bit. I will grow on you.

I don't like your SSBM push either fwiw

Cool. I don’t play for likes I play for pushing scum. I can’t explain it yet, but I assure you I will. I wish we would elim Kyo. It’s a difficult situation.

[Critter]

can u give me a tldr on the kyr read critter?

She said something I don’t think town says. Explaining more is antitown but in a few days it will be obvious or I will explain it. Combined with her intro and talks on flavor and extremely delayed reads while responding to posts reminds me of active lurking.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

It’s hard to explain but I hate this post. If you want to bookmark it.
Combine it with unprompted flavor claim and it feels icky.

This was my response to 953

[Critter]

Explaining more is antitown but in a few days it will be obvious or I will explain it

this game could probably use a little more transparency from like...everyone, esp if you want that lim today

-b

I am willing to wait. I would rather LLD get what she needs to leave final reads. She’s the macho IC and it should be what she wants. I want it but I won’t be anti town to do it.

[Critter]

can u give me a tldr on the kyr read critter?

She said something I don’t think town says.

Explaining more is antitown but in a few days it will be obvious or I will explain it

. Combined with her intro and talks on flavor and extremely delayed reads while responding to posts reminds me of active lurking.

i took a quick look at your iso and i see a lot of 'let's flip kyo' but not a lot of reasoning for it
i kinda think you do have some sort of reasoning from the bolded but this isn't super convincing as is rn

Then I keep trying later. I won’t derail things in a day that has gone long enough to get what I want. What I want may not be the right thing for town even if I am pretty sure she flips scum.

[Critter]

i would like to bump towelie down to a scumlean

I can feel this.

[Critter]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

ninja-
mhm

hi skitter!

Ik youre scumleaning us but I'm pretty sure you should go back and fact check the original part of this post!

Oh honey. <dramatic voice> I can have multiple scumreads. I do not townread Dunn.

[Critter]

if it's not signed, it's him

i'm not sure how to handle you at the moment and i'm not even remote fucking sure how we got here but i get the overall impression that trying to deal with you right now is going to not go well and i don't fucking get it

-b

Correct it won’t. You can push me. It won’t go well. Give it a day or two.

[Critter]

SM is almost certainly scum with that iso

THANK you, god damn.

It's pretty hard to sell that myself, but if someone whose brain isn't made of mildew and nematodes sees it too, maybe they'll be able to make the argument more gracefully than I can.

I’d sheep an SM wagon but I think there is a scum in Dunn/Kyo. Kyo’s slot has burned the cred Toog built.

This post implies you believe just one is scum, does it not? And for someone who believed Dunn is scum, you sure made a point to try and say "Kyo is scummier!" for reasons you have yet to present.

ninja-
Cocky grandstanding is my shtick, nice try though!

A scum in, yes. If two scum are in Dunn/Kyo there is one scum in the pairing. I have presented the reasons. Just let them sit so you enjoy a nice,cold scum later. And alas I am not being cocky I am an insect. But I am grandstanding yes, but only a tiny bit. Eventually this will make sense. You’re just behind. It’s okay. Let it go.

Unless you’re willing to derail all of town cohesion for what quite possibly is one of the stupidest pushes this game back off.

[Critter]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

i think critter was objecting to the dunn push because he was townreading him
and now has some ~mysterious reason~ for scumreading kyo. idk what it is or why but there seems to be something underlying this push that he's not articulating

i don't see a contradiction

What part of “I do not townread Dunn” do people not understand?

[Critter]

I for one love that its okay for LLD to make the choice when its someone not named Dunnstral, but when it was Dunnstral you started your Kyo push!

i think critter was objecting to the dunn push because he was townreading him
and now has some ~mysterious reason~ for scumreading kyo. idk what it is or why but there seems to be something underlying this push that he's not articulating

i don't see a contradiction

What part of “I do not townread Dunn” do people not understand?

i'm talking about at the time of the flavor claim, you were townreading him at the time, no? that's what i thougth we were talking abt

I was indecisive. Some of his meta didn’t match his prior scum meta. I do not townread him.

[Critter]

I think I don't like where Critter has gone recently, and my reread is going to take a slight scum bias given... all of this.

Also! An exoskeleton's still a skeleton, I'm full boneless, COME AND GET ME.

Yes I did the whole speaking thing. I should be more a seen and not heard dude but I had to open my mouth.

[Critter]

i'm not really sure i understand your issues with critter @notty

I dont like the kyo push, nor do I think kyo is scum here in general. I find a bigger contradiction in him being okay to cede control to LLD over MM, who he thinks is town. This is in contrast to how he tried to change things to Kyo, who as of literally posts ago he states being unsure about Dunn's alignment, yet he tried to derail the exact same conftown from Dunn. I don't think that makes sense from a town POV at all.

I didn’t say to MM. I asked LLD if she wanted by vote there. I realize I am one of the few people who townreads MM and we need the day to end. My townread isn’t strong enough to not be willing to compromise. I didn’t try to “change” things to Kyo. I spoke a scumread and said she’s scummier and voted her. That is not driving. I have not driven a wagon all day.

[Critter]

His professed scumread of kyo was for doing a catchup wherein she quotes meme posts from the RVS/LLD calling code red a confscum claim phase, something he attributes to his own scum meta without any thoughts of if kyo would play the same, is there a track record of kyo doing the same, or anything else. And instead STILL refuses to share the reasons for the Kyo scumread.

And I have explained as much as is protown to do so. Talk with your other head. This back and forth is not productive. You are a part of a hydra. Get aligned.

[Critter]

And I have explained as much as is protown to do so. Talk with your other head. This back and forth is not productive. You are a part of a hydra. Get aligned.

I'm trying to talk to skitter here, any reason you insist on stepping in the middle?

Yeah, you’re actively misrepresenting my posts when you are. Your other head and you clearly disagree with me and your head is spouting absolute crap in thread. If it was “just talking” or a valid reason to scumread me I wouldn’t have a problem.

[Critter]

VOTE: Critter

"Town cohesion"
vs
"No, stop talking to other players and just get in line"

I'd rather sit on this instead of Wisdom right now.

Go ahead. That’s not at all what I said lol.

[Critter]

just because i don't agree doesn't mean he can't generate more discussion. i don't think we're shitting up the thread w/ non-content, just trying to converge and this is probably how that has to happen.

-b

You don’t have a hydra PT? I fail to see how a head misrepresenting me is helpful. We need more action. This d1 is way too long.

[Critter]

B seems to be trying to communicate with the BFT hydra
????

Towelie was. By misrepresenting my posts. If you want to argue I am scum or talk about me by all means, do so. But if I don’t correct a misrep I am either letting that sit or interrupting a conversation. Either way is a lose lose so I picked speaking up.

Pedit: Yeah then ask questions stop misrepresenting me then.

[Critter]

i'm not really sure i understand your issues with critter @notty

I dont like the kyo push, nor do I think kyo is scum here in general. I find a bigger contradiction in him being okay to cede control to LLD over MM, who he thinks is town. This is in contrast to how he tried to change things to Kyo, who as of literally posts ago he states being unsure about Dunn's alignment, yet he tried to derail the exact same conftown from Dunn. I don't think that makes sense from a town POV at all.

His professed scumread of kyo was for doing a catchup wherein she quotes meme posts from the RVS/LLD calling code red a confscum claim phase, something he attributes to his own scum meta without any thoughts of if kyo would play the same, is there a track record of kyo doing the same, or anything else. And instead STILL refuses to share the reasons for the Kyo scumread.

a few things:
1. i don't know what the reason is for the kyo push exactly but i believe that it's there and that critter thinks that it's antitown to out it for whatever reason. this si probably not a super effective way of getting his scumreads flipped but i don't think it's just an empty bluster-y push cuz he wants to, i think there's some depth here that he's just not outing for whatever reason

2. i think his ideal flip is kyo, but if that's not gonna happen he will do what the ic wants.
2.a. he seems to want to end the day. again idk why but i think the now is a different gamestate to him than at the time of the dunn push. given that he wants to end the day his ideal push is kyo but an acceptable (albeit unwanted) outcome is mm because the ic wants it. at the time of dunn he wasn't really scumreading him and didn't feel it was time to concede that read yet

3. r.e. the scum meta thing i don't think he was calling kyo scum for that, but rather telling ss (who was townreading the lld vote) taht it's nai as it's possible for scum to do (as it's something he'd do himself)

1 and 2 are exactly correct.
3 is a bit touchy and a smidge incorrect but close enough and the perception is correct. The parts that are not correct are not misreps so leaving it alone as I can’t fix it without saying what I don’t want.

[Critter]

Let's pretend you're town. In choosing to speak up here you denied the chance for VFT to reply to me (however she so chose) which would have helped you better read her. Who knows, she might have brought up your points! Instead, you have repeatedly stepped in the middle of an interaction I wanted her opinion on and have tried to muddy the waters as much as possible, whilst repeatedly throwing shade on my head in particular- before I even "misrepped" you- (read: your comments about me not "liking" your posts). Nothing I had said prior to that was a misrep. But the discredits started first.

Miss me with that shit.

Ninja-
Okay, skitter.

You have misrepresented me and stated how. I told why I said what I said and I don’t regret it. It’s possible that Skitter would have corrected the misrep but I know how a bad impression can linger. I opted to not risk it. No regrets.

[Critter]

I kinda wanna vote Critter here because his approach feels vaguely scummy rn

Is scummy scum? Sometimes town is deliberately scummy. My approach is a bit weird yes.

[Critter]

I kinda wanna vote Critter here because his approach feels vaguely scummy rn

Is scummy scum? Sometimes town is deliberately scummy. My approach is a bit weird yes.

This feels like a weird card for you to pull atp

i'm still pulling notty off the ceiling from 1051 lol

-b

Dude’s got skills if he’s on the ceiling. I mean Gamma calling me weird when I say I am being weird is like lol.

[Critter]

I think notty's issue is that he thinks you're being somewhat, well, i don't want to put the words in his mouth, but "off" (and kind of in your own words there) but the whole time have trying to make him seem unreasonable

-b

Correct. I am off, and he is being unreasonable.

Stop being silly Gamma.

This doesn’t end well.

[Critter]

Just entertain us and push Kyo folks
If shes town it will show

Hi spirit buddy Just gonna share a screwdriver with you and you can have more tools to elim scum. Or get drunk your call.

[Critter]

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing. I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Interesting. You think I softed invest lmao lmao

No Townie says that ever hahahahaha

Not an invest anyway but still

Get rekt.

[Critter]

You also realize 90% of the push on you is Wisdom yeah?
Only reason you were brought up again was my posts were confusing.

I was more than happy to just stay the confusing idiot of the game.
But noooo someone had to go poke at something I didn’t want poked.

Please die for trying to out a supposed invest. Not one but this is a death sentence

[Critter]

VOTE: Kyo double checking my vote is here

[Critter]

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing.

I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Town never does the bold. Like ever.

[Critter]

I actually haven’t yet. I am manipulative as scum and I am not but I don’t know you? *confused eyeball stare*

[Critter]

I actually haven’t yet. I am manipulative as scum and I am not but I don’t know you? *confused eyeball stare*

I think you're manipulative as either alignment, Critter. I think you try and keep it on the downlow, but you're still manipulative. That makes you dangerous as scum. And no, we don't know each other, this is just a judgment call based on what I see of your play here. I don't use meta for players I haven't played with, and I don't even like using it then. It's a crutch where my normal ability to play fails, not a primary tool.

Also, I'm glad my worse-than-usual memory kept my vote on you if you didn't get the promised effect from ssbm, since I distrust you even more now. (Also I don't know what the hell an invest is and MS wiki isn't helpful with it.)

Invest is short for investigation role like tracker,watcher it’s a category not a specific role. She was role fishing.

[Critter]

skitter says she believes critter is being genuine here and I'm probably just going to trust her on this one.

- lilith

Unfortunately all the insects in my insect farm are gentleman. Please be advised.

[Critter]

skitter says she believes critter is being genuine here and I'm probably just going to trust her on this one.

- lilith

Unfortunately all the insects in my insect farm are gentleman. Please be advised.

Oh you mean Skitter my bad lol. Sorry.

[Critter]

that is in his scum meta, but he's also just easier to read with some flips imo, so I agree he's "never lim d1" material

Are there any flips you think would help read him at present?

What town says “another player is an invest” with a claimed cop (or two) in the game? I don’t get why you think Kyo is town here?

[Critter]

sorry not abandoning kyouko scum to push that
feel free to hold it against me

I am not abandoning someone who blatantly outs perceived invests short of a guilty or airtight case.

We have a very reliable cop claim and an IC already outed and possibly a second cop claim.

Let’s just end this day and elim Kyo or M&M. I don’t see anywhere else as viable.

[Critter]

Also what claimed cop? Last I was aware of, M&M's claim was still a joke.

Gamma parity cop the whole thing that started this mess.

[Critter]

I don’t care about the pieces. You’re scum.
I am Mountain Dew, the original flavor. I am a Parity Vanilla Cop. There’s a section that’s literally just the role name so that’s why I was so hard-up on getting a definitive claim. I pretty much knew from the moment you started talking about who to cop that you were likely BSing, I just had a moment of doubt when you fullclaimed because it sounded like you might be a meme role, but hard claiming cop sealed it for me. There’s no way my role + LLD’s role + full cop exists in this game IMO.

Here

Pedit: Be that as it may we have enough PRs and enough out there. I don’t want mass claim on D1. How about we elim in Kyo or M&M and call it a day.

[Critter]

The same can be said of most of the playerlist imo. As for why I am not though, I've read through only once since replacing in, then it was the weekend, where I am known to be less active, and on top of that, I'm not feeling motivated to look away from Critter and Wisdom because they're both annoying me right now.

I feel like the game probably makes the most sense if they're both town and scum are lurking, but Critter is kind of sucking my enjoyment out of the game right now.

I tried to join before this filled because I really like Mountain Dew, and thought it would be a fun theme, but it filled before I could /in. Now I'm replaced in and I'm being tunneled for talking about mountain dew. It's demoralizing.

I'm probably going to try to ignore critter because he's going to die for softing invest anyways, and if he doesnt die he can give results later.

I think by engaging with Wisdom and Critter I give them things to talk about. If I disengage they can provide content on other slots. If either falls off probably they were just stalling as scum. Will reread in the next couple.days.

Town never does the bold. Like ever.

I'm doing it now, and I'm doing you a favor because you softed it so it would be seen. Whether the idea was to prevent a push on you because you are investigative, or to draw the kill away from the IC, I don't know, but scum won't know either, and now they'll think twice.

Yeah sure. I softed an investigation role that I am not. And have openly stated I am not.

Can we just elim you? Thanks!

[Critter]

I have a potential justification in mind for why ssbm would out a perceived soft.

But I might as well let her explain herself before I feed her an answer.

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

I revealed A50's Watcher softs in Dwlee's mini that ended recently. I've done it other times as town too I'm sure, and to my knowledge have never outed crumbs as scum.

A> I have not softed an invest
B> I don’t have a completed game on site here as Critter. Guess I am lock town now because I have never made a scum post as Critter. (This is me disbelieving your “I haven’t done X as scum” argument.)
C> How many times do I have to say this? I don’t want to lead a wagon.

Pedit: Can you like stop already? I won’t confirm or deny any of that shit with PRs out and claimed. What the hell is your goal here?

[Critter]

Ffs can we please elim Kyo or M&M and call it a day?

[Critter]

Why are you so insistent on that?

If you’re not going to do it at least find a new topic.

[Critter]

Like something new to talk about.

[Critter]

No, because I want to know why you want it...?

You're hardly going to convince people to do something by forbidding them from talking about that thing.

I am not. I have said my preference.
Talking about what PR I am or am not is not productive and outright fishing as I won’t confirm or deny any of it.

[Critter]

Oh, I wasn't referring to talking about your role. I wanted to know why you were in a rush to end the day.

Won’t talk about that either. It’s pretty obvious. I mean we have 2 PRs outstanding here at least if three. This doesn’t include me in that total. If we run someone else up the standard is to have them claim at e-1. I am saying we should end the day to prevent de facto mass claim.

[Critter]

We should elim Kyo or M&M ans call it a day.

[Critter]

Why do you offer mm as option

Popular opinion and it’s a read I waffle on.

LLD don’t be silly please. Don’t.

[Critter]

Those last 2 posts are.... dreadful.

LLD no.

You will not elim me and you will be giving the game to scum.

[Critter]

I am saying we should end the day to prevent de facto mass claim.

You are recommending voting two slots who have not claimed, and who likely will if wagoned.

If you're trying to avoid claims, there's no reason those two should be preferable to anyone else, and indeed it would be better to kill someone who's already claimed like Gamma if that's your primary goal.

Mm has claimed or forced a claim to out so better than pretty much anyone else.

[Critter]

Mm has claimed or forced a claim to out so better than pretty much anyone else.

Thats not a reason to lim them

It is when it’s Noraa and Pooky

[Critter]

Disagree
Their intention was not to force any claim
Gamma was just dumb there and took it seriously

It’s Pooky and Noraa both are better than that and haven’t FoS’d a scum yet. They’re better than that.

[Critter]

1) does lillith think I should be townreading her?

2) that was the point of our contention (the softs). Bork said leave it be, and I’m of the opinion that nothing stops scum from softing?

-notty

1. idk we've not really talked about the game at all, i don't know anything more abt her reads than u do
2. fair enuf r.e. contention, i guess there's nothing stopping scum suddenly softing but the conviction/you're-not-gonna-flip-me vibe seems real to me
the one thing that i forgot to say about the soft that is niggling me a bit is why it kinda happened there suddenly ~post 1000 and not like earlier

that' not scummy per se but just noting it

Hmmm

Maybe there are some maybe there aren’t.

*goes back to lurking til someone decides who we are voting if not Kyo*

[Critter]

Maybe there are some maybe there aren’t.

to clarify, whether or not there are or aren't crumbs earlier, i meant why you suddenly started leaning into the 'well you're not gonna be flipping me' vibe

Didn’t need to til then. People we letting me lurk.

[Critter]

Kyos most likely town and the push on her is boring at best

If I am right on Kyo >85% confidence
You’re scum 75% of the time with her.

I don’t see how you get a townread on Kyo at all.

[Critter]

can I ask people to sheep me and let me shoot my shot?

I have been stepping back to let things evolve and people develop reads but now I want to... really take my shot.

Long as it isn’t me sure.

[Critter]

[Critter]

I did it because it guarantees scum will see it and the potential motivation, if he is town, is to draw the NK off of LLD, or potentially if he really has a role, to be able to play aggressively and WIFOM scum into not shooting him because he's trying to draw a kill. However, if he is scum and makes it deep, this guarantees that someone who lives longer than me will poke at the soft later and not let it go unnoticed.

uh am i reading this right? you outed him in order to make sure scum sees it to draw the nk off of lld onto him? why wasn't gamma's claim sufficient for that exactly? why do u think scum would kill unknown-pr-critter over macho-ic?
this doesn't make sense to me

Well you're only reading my post as though Critter is town which you cant know from a town POV. I wasn't thinking about Gamma's claim, but Gamma's role as claimed is on the weaker side. I don't think it's sufficient to draw the kill. An unknown PR could have the capability to investigate or interfere with the scum. It may make more sense to kill an unknown PR over LLD, especially if LLD is not leading wagons on scum. The Macho was announced by the mod so scum knows it's not even like a gambit for a BP IC or something. Scum can take the LLD kill whenever they want.

Anyways, you dont seem to be considering the whole post - part of the reason to point out the softs is in case Critter is scum, but you haven't considered that. If VFT ever flips scum, I think this is a perspective slip that spews town!Critter

This is a whole lotta nope. If I am scum then posts still exist later. Do you think I can just take Mountain Dew and dissolve my prior posts?

(Joke) I claim infinite shot post deleter.

This is you trying so desperately to come up with a Townie explanation for something you should not do as town and something I think you did as scum.

[Critter]

Let’s go through Kyo’s entire ISO shall we:
353 - Brought up flavor unprompted
358 - Claims flavor unprompted and says “No” to some question not present in thread
393 - More flavor jokes
398 - More flavor jokes/spec
415 - More flavor talk
421 - Flavor argument votes the IC sixteen minutes later. This is premeditated.

Let’s assume not and she REALLY likes Mountain Dew.
Then she reads from the start of the game to where LLD pushes Dunn.
She would see that it is for a flavor based reason she pushed Dunn.
For someone who says they like Mountain Dew and are talking about flavor a lot voting someone because they did flavor spec is bad.

[Critter]

450 - Still talking flavor and saying she didn’t get LLD’s case and says her own slot softed a comptetitor brand yet it is a yikes of Dunn’s slot somehow. Kyo scum more than likely makes Dunn town that’s yikes.

469 - Says claiming flavor in your opening post goes against the status quo and shouldn’t be done unless protown benefit or Miller claim. Since no Miller claim and no protown benefit established this is pure hunting.

Now let’s go back to that post I hate so very much. Just a moment.

[Critter]

Just curious; how popular is/was Mountain Dew DEW*S*A?

It was one of the last ones I tried before I started calorie counting and i really liked it. It was like sparkling berry, reminded me a little of whiteout which I guess makes sense because it was a mixture of whiteout code red and voltage

Dunn is code red and not a gambit of some kind this is established. Why the fuck are EMMI and this new slot shooting the shit about flavors here. At this point the claim had already happened and this is one of only like under 10 posts from the EMMI slot. This is also about flavor.

There is no way flavor is not important to scum.

[Critter]

Combining this with 421 does not make sense as an argument.

Pretend for a moment LLD is not an IC and Kyo is town.

Pretend LLD is doing exactly what is proposed here. She’s scum who wants to push Dunn. How would she not realize what flavors she had? Wouldn’t she de facto know what flavors town had? And who says town only gets Mountain Dew flavors? It’s on or off brand.

[Critter]

472 - STILL talking flavor and now chalks a mistake up to “misremembering”. When do we get to an actual read?
482 - Asks why she’s being @‘d after claiming a flavor.

Apparently some mystical flavor claim is supposed to get her to where she never gives reads or interacts with a good chunk of the player base?

493 - LLD please forgive me but I think this post is meant to buddy you.

490-499 Stops me from trying to figure out Dunn’s alignment with some ridiculous crap

501 Is the first reads we get from her. Like damn

[Critter]

Gamma Emerald
Towelie (hydra of borkjerfkin and notscience)
MUSHSHAGANA
E. M. M. I.
Milk & Mocha (hydra of PookyTheMagicalBear and Noraa)
Venus Fly Trap (hydra of skitter30 and lilith2013)
Dunnstral
Wisdom
Lady Lambdadelta
Something_Smart
Critter
StrangeMatter
Toogeloo

Oh Emmi not unvoting Dunn when they popped in seemed weird, felt like they were aware of the VC but had no concern that they were on a leading wagon without having read.

Towelie hasn't pinged me except that he doesnt like baja blast? Very suspicious

Gonna combine 501-4

EMMI is top tier town for voting Dunn, asking a flavor question, and disappearing?

This reads list is faker than shit.

Kyo/EMMI/Towelie is where I am at atm. She also puts HERSELF at the bottom of her reads.

[Critter]

Thank you for proving my point that it’s bullshit. She has wanted me dead for ever since I questioned her flavor baiting ways. I have to go so I have to stop midway though but if we do not elim the flavor souping Kyo I will be one sad insect.

[Critter]

1) To steer conversation about flavor so they can PR hunt. It’s be a mod safe fake claim of flavor anyway they’d claim
2) Addressed and answered.

You’re also nitpicking a detail vs the main point. Kyo doesn’t have reads. She spams it up about Mountain Dew then OMGUS’s me and Wisdom.

[Critter]

C/P’ing playerlist order isn’t a sign of scum
You might be right about kyo but you’re doing a horrible job of making sense about it

29 posts (if my count is right) before she gets to an actionable read in 501. That’s a quarter of her ISO.

Everything else before that is flavor or throw away one liners or posts that stop communication.

[Critter]

Waiting on reads Kyo tick tock tick tock

You scum, mush town, gamma town, nora possibly scumclaimed but nobody else notices these things. Wisdom obstinate, need to review him and toog in iso real quick, as his vote sticking in place feels wrong. However it's not likely you and wisdom are both scum so wrong on at least one of those

Dunnstral idk, I've had vibes he was scum at times but he doesnt feel like he did in isekai and I tracked him to the kill completely by accident there, had no idea he may be scum. I was setting up to Watch him later and he happened to be killing that Night

SM feels like limbait so town. Flytrap is POE scum. Gonna check playerlist for the resr as others in game are escaping me.

Interesting the post with actual reads in it doesn’t get quoted while you quote the c/pasted playerlist

Because I am on mobile waking up intentionally early to do this for LLD as I will be AFK later in meeting palooza because insects be busy sucking blood and apparently that helps people.

[Critter]

Any you thought that of the two posts 504 was the better choice to quote?

Or the better choice to paint your narrative

Yes. Why are you not addressing the main point?

The latter is baseless shade. I am not painting a narrative. That requires an actual arc which is notably absent here. A narrative would be something like “Kyo is scum she posted X because her scum goal is Y”

The only thing about her postings is that flavor is important. More important than giving reads.

She also dropped her flavor sans Miller claim and contradicts her own thoughts in 469.

I want her dead for lack of reads, OMGUS, and flavor hunting. That’s not a narrative that’s facts.

[Critter]

And who says town only gets Mountain Dew flavors? It’s on or off brand.

competitor brand = not mountain dew drinks

i seriously dont see how one interprets this any other way

-b

https://www.bevindustry.com/articles/94 ... innovation

Incorrect. Two seconds google mwah

[Critter]

I dont see how that article disproves what i said

-b

I fail to see how you don’t so like okay?

I am late I am out of here.

Stop picking at the tiny BS and look at the overall picture.

I may not word good but my overall point is clear.

[Critter]

I really think Skitter is town LLD. I don’t know about Lilith but the Skitter head I think is town.

I will be working all night but a promise is a promise.

What’s the vote count at?

[Critter]

I really think Skitter is town LLD. I don’t know about Lilith but the Skitter head I think is town.

I will be working all night but a promise is a promise.

What’s the vote count at?

Feel free to spend the time convincing me. I'm not unconvincable. This is just where I landed after a game review.

Assume for the moment that Skitter is scum. She could have easily went for “easier” elims or brought some to claim. The fact she hasn’t means one or more of the pushes done today has been on scum. There’s no reason for her to just suddenly swap her read on me like she did.

The fact no one has been brought to E-1 and we are at like a billion pages says something.

[Critter]

I am thinking if we can’t elim Kyo we are looking at lurkers like EMMI who haven’t done anything at all.

[Critter]

I don’t know about Lilith but the Skitter head I think is town.

i thought so too early but skitter very much emitted that she had meta on the brain to deal w/ me, and i'm just really not convinced she was actually ever prepared to use that reading method in earnest. I would also like to hear why you think that.

-b

Vibes. Skitter is a difficult read meta wise but in the moment I think I am okay with her. I know this isn’t thorough but I don’t have long before I have to keep back to work.

[Critter]

There’s no reason for her to just suddenly swap her read on me like she did.

she saw a soft, same as me. I don't think that's an AI reaction.

-b

Right. A scum reaction would be to ignore it or continue to push as if it doesn’t exist. Your slot did the latter. When a PR softs (and you believe the soft) you just slowly (or quickly) migrate to a townread and BS reasons if you have to. Your reaction (I believe the notty head) is bad cop and b is the good cop.

[Critter]

I really think Skitter is town LLD. I don’t know about Lilith but the Skitter head I think is town.

I will be working all night but a promise is a promise.

What’s the vote count at?

Feel free to spend the time convincing me. I'm not unconvincable. This is just where I landed after a game review.

Assume for the moment that Skitter is scum. She could have easily went for “easier” elims or brought some to claim. The fact she hasn’t means one or more of the pushes done today has been on scum. There’s no reason for her to just suddenly swap her read on me like she did.

The fact no one has been brought to E-1 and we are at like a billion pages says something.

This is wholy unconvincing because you're forgetting we have an IC in the town and we had GE do a claim thing.

That should be more convincing not less. Less pool. I don’t see how that’s less convincing to you.

13 players. IC never being elimmed. Gamma never being elimmed. Scum don’t have a bus trigger far as I can see.
So 11 -3 is 8.

This means scum have a pool of 8 to work in. They’d have an easier time bringing someone to E-1 not less.

[Critter]

The fact no one has been brought to E-1 and we are at like a billion pages says something.

Sure but why is that linked to VFT

Because VFT is one of the more active players. I think scum are in the lurkers and we can’t coordinate at all.

[Critter]

A scum reaction would be to ignore it or continue to push as if it doesn’t exist.

that's not what we did; notty just thinks you're full of shit.

-b

And I think your slot is scum doing good cop bad cop. I don’t see you as an experienced player being okay with what Notty is doing.

[Critter]

I don’t see you as an experienced player being okay with what Notty is doing.

that's nice but it has no basis in reality. i have no problem w/ him trying to get content out of you, esp since my reason for TRing you was something I couldn't ask about. I don't think we'd have moved to you today unless the landscape really changed.

-b

There’s no need for that I have plenty of content. You can easily ask about what’s there without talking about the elephant in the room. And I bet you wouldn’t move to me unless you got some sucker/scape goat to do it first. If your slot had no intention of voting me then what is the pressure for?

[Critter]

unless you're trying to tell me that scum have no history of softing PRs

you essentially lowered the value proposition of being wrong, which I acknowledge. you don't get to just be confirmed.

-b

You’re right. Scum can soft PRs. That’s why you sort based on other content. I am not asking to be confirmed I am asking to be sorted. Yes I tell people they’re making a mistake because they are. If they felt strongly about it then they’d pressure me on my reads or other content.

[Critter]

to.... get a better read

what

-b

If you have no intention of voting it won’t help you get a better read though.

Otherwise it’s glorified posting of “look at me I am sorting”. If you’re not willing to vote someone then pressure is useless.

[Critter]

That’s why you sort based on other content

you mean

like he

was doing

fuck dude

-b

No he wasn’t.

[Critter]

So I really don't like Critter.

I have been back and forth on Critter and Wisdom because I think ssbm was right about those two not being red together (too much apparent coordination), and I gave a good think where I thought the scum lay in that pair.

I think that my problem with Wisdom is primarily a playstyle mismatch combined with Wisdom's general posting style being close to the sort of wording that's used by all the little doubts I have in my head that are loud about how I'm dragging the game down singlehandedly with my brainfog... Put bluntly, it's my damage. It's not AI, it's just something that pushes my internal buttons, and I'm not about to ask Wisdom to change everything about his posting for my sake.

Critter feels subversive. There's a lot of talk about town cohesion, bringing the town together, but when side-conversations occur about his slot, he starts tearing it up and driving wedges to spike the conversation dead. It's very... self-centered? play, which isn't necessarily anti-town, but what gets me is how when trying to direct/command/lead town it's very go-us, work-together, deadline-is-near, and when it comes to his slot it's very this-is-a-bad-idea, stop-saying-that, you'll-regret-this. There's no trust for players to come to equilibrium with specifically his own personal slot in particular.

But that's not to say it's only his slot he does it with. I also see the same thing going on with regard to ssbm. Don't debate! Don't ask questions! Just Vote!

Maybe it's my tendency to question authorities in general but I distrust Critter because of this playstyle. It's demanding but gives no regard for the far side. It's incoherent when comparing the big picture against local events. And I have a gut feeling that I just don't like Critter's play at all.



LLD wants VFT, so we're going to crush VFT today. But I want to voice my thoughts on Critter in strong terms while I have a clear mind.

Yes my play is self centered and with good reason.
I am not LLD or you or Gamma and I don’t pretend to me.

I am not a wordsmith and I don’t pretend to be.
That’s not where my strengths are.
Yes I am manipulative as scum. I admit that.
There’s a game I replaced into and almost won if I didn’t have the setup spec wrong at the tail end.
The difference is I am pretending like every post is my last.
So I am trying to stop derpage at the same time trying not to say other things that are bad.

So yes I am reserved and if trying not to be “rah rah give me elim” is manipulative so fucking be it.

I am doing my absolute damndest to stop bullshit.
So if that means AtE it does.

[Critter]

Like everyone needs to understand I chose to do this with like, nearly a week left (5 days and change now) because we have that time and I want to be able to use it if I need it so.

We're not in a rush, take your time.

We should be in a rush though. That’s the issue. I wish I wasn’t an alt I could say (thing) and then you’d see my point. This is infuriating.

[Critter]

I townread Wisdom and Dunnstral is like a bad elim for the same reason Kyo is a good elim like fuck.

[Critter]

I townread Wisdom and Dunnstral is like a bad elim for the same reason Kyo is a good elim like fuck.

This is when I just wish I had a rubber wall nearby. *sigh*

[Critter]

Didn’t I already debunk the kyo case?

Lmao

You said words that were countered by me. I left for work anything after that and if any “countering” is there I will see it later.

[Critter]

Like everyone needs to understand I chose to do this with like, nearly a week left (5 days and change now) because we have that time and I want to be able to use it if I need it so.

We're not in a rush, take your time.

We should be in a rush though. That’s the issue. I wish I wasn’t an alt I could say (thing) and then you’d see my point. This is infuriating.

I'm so confused why you feel we need to rush this day, I just took the time to control the pace of the game, the game died for a whole 24 hours as I shut it down and now we're resetting with new info.

How many PRs are in a typical game LLD? 4-5

We have 2-3 openly claimed and me softed.

We are running dangerously close to mass claim on Day fucking one.

There are two other people who are softed PRs no I won’t say who.

Unless we turbo elim someone not in that pool we risk a cascade reaction.

[Critter]

I for one don’t think we have five TPRs in a game designed to be like 2013 meta

Ranges are a thing. I think we are on the high end but simple and scum maybe have 1 goon at most making Gamma very important.

[Critter]

In post 82, Cabd wrote:
Players should expect a fairly balanced non-swingy game that plays more like a classic normal game from the 2013 era, with mountain dew flavor shamelessly bolted on top of it.

Yes. I am telling you IF I am right the theory I have matches that.

[Critter]

my interpretation is "low complexity, likely to be no gotcha bullshit negative interaction clownfiesta like 2181 was, but still w/ possibly modern roles to be used in the PR slots (which i'm mostly filling in due to gamma claim)"

-b

Agreed I just think we are on the high end of PRs making Gamma very important because if he gets a result he can get two people to claim VT or not without saying the result and we potentially get a 1v1.

[Critter]

yep, i agree.

-b

Then why the heck are you not in rush the day keep the PRs hidden so scum can’t wiggle out of Gamma’s check?

It’s just so fucking blatant here that Kyo is scum like it hurts that I can’t explain it.

[Critter]

And how you have defended her not just that you have plus your push on me makes you very likely scum as well. It’s like a 1-2 combo.

[Critter]

And how you have defended her not just that you have plus your push on me makes you very likely scum as well. It’s like a 1-2 combo.

this isn't how mafia works but go off

-b

Except that’s exactly how it works. Scum were caught in dances with this exact sort of shit.

[Critter]

You know what. I am borrowing from MathBlade. It helped him nail a scum team 3/3 can everyone do this?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13054226

[Critter]

He’s normally really bad but if it helped him it can help me. Go!